Guest post: Kenny Sloth on cornerbacks

This article was written by contributor Kenny Sloth

Pete Carroll’s end of the year press conference is always a revealing time for draft fans. This season was no different with Carroll divulging his expected targets. One of those specific need areas was corner and with the gruesome and unfortunate injury to Deshawn Shead, the Seattle Seahawks cornerback room was left reeling. The team scrambled to fill the hole with career stop-gap Perrish Cox, which inspired little confidence. This safety-sized hole across from Richard Sherman has been the impetus for some fans to clamour for an early round selection at cornerback, something that has not proven to be a part of the brain trust’s modus operandi. Obviously, times change and it would be irresponsible for Seattle draft fans to not do our due diligence.

If you missed the first part of this pre-combine series on linebackers you can check it out here.

1. Tre’Davious White, LSU- I am higher on him than most but I’m a sucker for anybody rockin’ that #18 jersey for the Tigers. The way he carries himself among his teammates screams leader. He is the one holding everyone accountable on that defense. The way he storms away from plays barking at his linebackers just warms my heart. Excellent at tracking the ball in mid-air. Just a natural talent at the position. Best fit is a Cover 2 scheme and he has experience shadowing the oppositions number one. Excellent press technique.

2. Sidney Jones IV, Washington- Enthusiastic run defender, Jones pairs excellent length with fluidity. He’s got room to add weight to his frame (and absolutely needs to) in order to have functional strength at the next level. Despite his willingness to crash downfield and converge on the ballcarrier, he seems to be afraid of getting hurt — likely due to a slender frame. He has a very high ceiling and lockdown potential.

3. Marlon Humphrey, Alabama- He might be primarily an off-coverage corner at the next level but his press technique can be improved. Humphrey could certainly benefit from a switch to safety similar to the move Byron Jones made with the Cowboys. If a team is confident using him in a similar way, Humphrey is a terrific athlete that can have an impact at the next level. Faked out far too easily at the cornerback spot. Really benefits from a solid cushion against all types of receivers. If I had to comp him, Devin McCourty is a very favourable likening. Very thick bodied, durable.

4. Marshon Lattimore, Ohio State- Decent length and incredibly fluid hips. The comparison gets thrown around but he reminds me so much of Darrell Revis. Chippy on the field, Lattimore displays confidence in the way he moves and controls receivers. Don’t even look his way. Suffocating coverage. Run defense leaves a lot to be desired from the redshirt sophomore. Very weak bump and run coverage and will get called for plenty of fouls, at least as a rookie. Beautiful man coverage and QB baiting. I believe his age relative to teammate Gareon Conley’s factored into his Ohio State coaches’ decision to play him on the right side of the field at CB2.

5. Marquez White, Florida State- Not sure why there is zero buzz around this player but he is one of the least targeted defenders in the country and the season before last in his first year of starting he allowed completions on fewer than 1/3 of his targets. He’s just about the most physical corner available this year. He puts WRs on their buttocks. He’s played basketball for Florida State and just looks like an alpha out there. Very grabby, the type of player that’s always checking to see if he got flagged. Makes me nostalgic for Brandon Browner. Allowed just over 200 yards TOTAL in two years of starting for FSU. A humble and engaging personality, his journey screams Seahawks.

6. Adoree’ Jackson, USC- Jackson exhibits excellent change of direction and wide receiver like ability to track the ball in the air. Tough, if not a particularly physical player, he never gives up on a play and has nice long speed. Decent press technique despite lacking arm length to my eye and some of the best footwork in the class. His ability with the ball in his hands will be a huge plus for some teams.

7. Teez Tabor, Florida- Uses his press to control opponents. Excellent recognition of route combinations and takes advantage of this knowledge. He’s fun to watch and can cover in the end zone. Very high level ball skills, Teez consistently punches and swats the football well.

8. Kevin King, Washington- Clearly King is the best athlete on the field. He has the strength to dominate a receiver at the line of scrimmage and the agility to stay with his man across the field. You want to see him break more decisively on the ball and rip it away more aggressively. Adding weight could behoove him greatly, as is the case with many of the corners in this draft, although perhaps not as profoundly so with King. His press technique leaves a lot to be desired but the athletic package has me drooling the same as everybody else.

9. Chidobe Awuzie, Colorado- A decent athlete, his physicality is an asset. Plays downhill and reads the offense incredibly well. Has an insane pre-cognizance for developing plays. Very chippy and vocal. He wants to compete. Awuzie has experience at both corner spots and on the inside.

10. Fabian Moreau, UCLA- Very fluid hips on a solid frame, Moreau shouldn’t leave the second round. Strong hands with long arms to control his receiver. Plays through the receiver and is aggressive in run support.

11. Desmond King, Iowa- Thick, well-built for a corner. Very intelligent — you can tell when he recognizes a play pre-snap. Superb agility, balance, and vision on returns. Chippy player, not afraid to swat a facemask. Arm length looks to be a disqualifying factor for Seattle.

12. Howard Wilson, Houston- Great athlete, Wilson crashes hard on the run and isn’t afraid to lay a big hit. Really sloppy off coverage, when he doesn’t have a target he wastes a lot of steps and takes himself out of position. One of the hardest hitters at corner in this draft.

13. Cameron Sutton, Tennessee- Physical beyond his size, overaggressive and that can hurt his play. Flashes next level recovery speed but has to use it too much. Unfortunately, Sutton’s going to have some intense growing pains at least into his rookie year.

14. Corn Elder, Miami- Doesn’t blow you away with either size or athleticism but is chippy and scheme responsible. Corn is real mean son of a gun, too. He’s a special teams ace for Miami and a leader on the defense. Elder is the cream of the crop Miami’s secondary. He’s the kind that’s liable to pop a WR. He will hit you in the ear. Seriously, an a-maize-ing cornerback. A class act, he’s no flake. . . . His name is ‘Corn’.

15. Cordrea Tankersley, Clemson- A sticky man coverage corner, Tankersley could be an option for Seattle. He plays with great patience and stays with his man. Always has a hand in the bread basket but is not the most efficient dislodger of the ball. Just like many corners in this class, the slender Tankersley can be soundly muscled off the redline and the catch point.

16. Rasul Douglas, West Virginia- Douglas is a very large corner, good feet and fluid hips. He may not test well in the 40 but we’ve seen Seattle generally overlook that. Will give up on backside pursuit and despite his size, lacks a lot of physicality. The best tomahawk chop in this CB class, Douglas has a nose for the ball. Almost caught Dede Westbrook on the ground but instead gave up a touchdown on the screen. He’s got some really up and down tape.

17. Jourdan Lewis, Michigan- An excellent slot corner, his incredibly slender build should limit him to this role at the next level. His physicality is impressive against larger receivers. Gets put on skates by blockers but won’t give up on a play. He was played at safety occasionally to no great success.

18. Quincy Wilson, Florida- Non-factor in run defense. Stays in receiver’s hip pocket deep downfield. Hand fighting is above average in this class. Looks to be a little under-athletic for the next level. While not a death sentence, he will need to continue to improve his technique in order to be a contributor.

19. Gareon Conley, Ohio State- Slightly smaller than his counterpart, Conley played some slot for OSU to great success. Has trouble with larger wide receivers and lacks scheme versatility despite his inside out versatility. Don’t draft him expecting a boomer in run support.

20. Ahkello Witherspoon, Colordao- Not sure that he did as well against John Ross as Rob saw on tape. There were a lot of very poor throws by Browning in that game, including a wide open touchdown directly against Witherspoon. Obviously, Ross is one of the most natural speed WRs to enter the draft in some time and Colorado heavily shaded their coverage to bracket him. Witherspoon can be boxed out due to a slender frame and is not a willing run stuffer. I don’t believe he is his listed 6’3 height. But that’s why we have the combine, right?

21. Channing Stribling, Michigan- Longer and stronger than his secondary counterpart, Stribling is usually allowed to play on an island on the left side of the field. He’s not the most spectacular athlete and loses track of the ball badly. He has some tools but is not a naturally fluid athlete and seems an impatient defender. His breaks leave a lot to be desired. He seems content with letting the receiver catch everything and touching them down.

The one player I want to talk about so bad but I can’t get enough tape to say I have a full evaluation of is Middle Tennessee State’s Jeremy Cutrer. He had an otherworldly performance against Alabama in 2015, including a still-impressive 80 yard interception in garbage time in which he perfectly baited the QB of an elite program — known for emphasizing ball security at the position.

He’s every bit of 6’3 and just flies around very confidently. Would also like to give Treston DeCoud from Oregon State a mention as blog regular Volume12 has been a fan since last year. I also only watched a single video of his but it was apparent from his length, strength, and tenacity, that he should not be discounted as a target.

Now, obviously, there are many more corners available and many more that will end up on our radar after the combine. Whether we add a corner in the first or third, if we select three of them or zero, we know that this draft class is particularly loaded at the position and the team would do well to reload on outside corner depth following a year of roster shakeup at the position.

Player I missed (there’s plenty)? Player I mistook (probably several)? Someone you just can’t say enough about, or want for the Seahawks? Share your thoughts below.


  1. LeoSharp

    An interesting the player the seahawks might want to pick up in the later rounds or UDFA is Brian Allen Utah. He’s 6’3 205lbs and used to be a WR. Hard to find tape on him but he did manage 4 ints with 6 PBU. From what I’ve seen of him he did that while splitting reps at corner

  2. Overtime

    Love the list. Add in the Safeties and there is more than enough to go around. The Hawks have 14 DB’s on their roster right now. Most of them fit the tall, slender, Richard Sherman body type we look for. I have to believe a couple of them will emerge to fill in for Shead at least until he gets back. That said, I would still love to have a couple of these rookies in our DB room. There is no guarantee the draft pick is going to start. So, I don’t expect a high pick to be used. What seems to be missing from the room is an ET clone. Steven Terrell was disappointing. So, Adoree Jackson or Budda Baker would be my preferred targets.

  3. Dale Roberts

    Pete Carroll’s CB technique uses a step-kick at the line that some CBs find difficult to master and the overall technique is very precise. Quoting Cary Williams, “There’s a lot of intricate things that are different than other places. They’re more focused on the details, like I said, and it’s an emphasis on those things and making sure you’re focused on those small details on every snap.”

    Is it true that the ability to learn and execute these techniques is a mental issue and not related the physical abilities of the player? Do any the above CBs seem more mentally suited to play PCs style of defense?

    • Kenny Sloth

      I haven’t got around to checking under the hood if you will for most of these guys. I usually do that after the combine when they’ve done their talking.

      I like Marquez Whites calm demeanor. He’s a lunchpail guy.

      TreDavious White is a natural.

      A lot of these corners spent time. on the left hand side to the QB.

      • Volume12

        Extremely talented and deep class, but I don’t think there’s 1 corner in this class that doesn’t have a huge hole in his game. At least that’s what I’ve seen. However, there’s no such thing as a perfect prospect and as we know its all about minimizing a weakness and maximizing a strength.

        • Cameron

          Coach-ability may be a big factor Pete and John are looking for. This draft seems to have more db’s than average who come from a similar scheme to Seattle’s (I don’t think that’s an accident either, look at which pass defense has been dominate in the NFL the last 4 or 5 years).

          Profile wise I think SEA will like any of the following players (among those likely available):

          Kevin King
          Adoree Jackson
          Rasul Douglas
          Cordrea Tankersley
          Ahkello Witherspoon
          Howard Wilson
          Channing Stribling

        • Kenny Sloth

          Definitely. The only ones I definitely expect off the board when 26 rolls around are Lattimore, Jones, and Humphries.

          I wouldn’t be shocked if anyone else slid.

          Gareon Conley should go higher than I give him credit above. Very versatile

          • McKitrick

            Below is what I would consider the important traits of a CB, in order. I’m no expert or scout, but who gets us the closest based on these?

            1. Speed. Quick and fast
            2. Knowledge. Self-starter at the position and wants to learn. From the playbook as well as from Sherman and the rest of the guys.
            3. Instincts. I would hope whoever we get has had enough time on the field, at this positiion, by now, to have a good sense of where he needs to be and when in the coverages used in the systems he has played in to this point.
            4. Toughness. Knock the WR off his route and impose his will at the LOS. Talk it up. Finishes tackles
            5. Size.
            6. Coverage skills. This is the most coachable area
            7. Team guy

            • Kenny Sloth

              Marquez White.

    • BobbyK

      Part of the problem with Cary Williams is that he was terrible by the time he got to Seattle. They miscalculated on what he could offer. Even after the Seahawks cut him – nobody wanted anything to do with him and he never contributed in the NFL again. He would have still been terrible even if he’d mastered the technique.

  4. Southpaw360

    Thank you for this! I enjoyed reading it! Keep up the awesome work!

  5. Volume12

    Good stuff Kenny.

    Gotta disagree about the Witherspoon and Ross tape. I like Ross, bit overrated, P-Rich type guy at the next level. Thought Witherspoon displayed fantastic technique and positioning.

    • Kenny Sloth

      I shouldn’t have included that but and allowed others to come to their own conclusion, but Colorado weren’t just leaving Spoon on an island against Ross by any means.

      He played the bracket perfectly except for a Ross drop in the endzone

      • Cameron

        Interesting criticism. Certainly Colorado wasn’t the only team to see the wisdom in bracketing John Ross. Either way his performance in that game was superb. Even the big minus play, the goal line whip route ran by Ross was a bit of a shoulder shrug. A 6’3′ DB is always going to struggle against that kind of player and that kind of route. Witherspoon was all over the slant in that case which is what I would want to see if you’re not going to flash an underneath defender.

        Witherspoon will a polarizing player, but mostly due to his tackling allergy imo.

      • RWIII

        Kenny: Good stuff. Last year JS traded down acquired an extra third round pick. Then in the 2nd round traded up and snagged Jarran Reed. I have mentioned a couple of times that if Hassan Reddick is not on the board the Hawks could trade down and aquire another pick. Then in the 2nd round with the 58th pick trade up. No doubt if JS does again one those first two pics would probably be a cornerback. JS would onlly trade up if he felt like he had to have this guy. BTW ANOTHER Edge/lb to look at is Tyus Bowser. I have been reading some good stuff about this guy. He could be a 2nd round option.

        • Kenny Sloth

          I like Bowser.

          Safeties are next then edge rushers if there’s time before the combine

          I think the draft is too anecdotal to look at previous trades as precedence

          • Sea Mode

            I think Bowser is more raw than people realize. Didn’t really like his highlights at DE either.

          • RWIII

            Kenny Agree: The NFL draft anecdotal.

  6. BobbyK

    It’d be awesome if there was a way to get both Baker and King in the first two rounds. That fills the need for a CB opposite Sherman and a legit playmaker to help create some turnovers.

    • AlaskaHawk

      I got a feeling that King will be there if the Seahawks want him, maybe even in the second round. Of course it’s all a crap shoot by then based on who got picked first, but wouldn’t it be great if he could stay in Seattle?

      • RWIII

        King will probably not be available at 58. He us too good to last that long.

      • BobbyK

        It’s possible if they trade down into the second round and get Baker (granted, no guarantees he’ll be there) and then use the pick acquired to move up from our second round pick to get King. Might be a way to get two guys the Seahawks view as premier.

        I wonder how hard it would be for Baker/King to play in Seattle though? Their college friends (and parties) are still going to be around and it will be convenient to whoop it up during down time. I would if I were their ages. Players still will wherever they are – but sticking home you always get a little extra, such as more people wanting/expecting favors (money, tickets, time, etc.).

        • RWIII

          Bobby K: These player rankings are all over the place. Daniel Jeremiah has Buddha Baker 24. Tony Pauline does’t even gave him in the top 50. So who knows.

    • RealRhino2

      That’s what I ended up with in my latest mock draft, eschewing early OL and LB grabs. I’m coming around to the idea of Baker being the best guy for us R1. Think he can play both safety positions in a pinch and be a good nickel corner. Could we put him in Jeremy Lane’s role and allow Lane to move outside, thus alleviating our biggest “need” going into this draft (replacing Shead, at least in the short term)?

      I’m a little concerned about his weight and length (hope his arms are at least ET’s 31-1/4), but love his overall athleticism. Can also return punts if Lockett isn’t ready to start the year.

      • RWIII

        Guys like Budda Baker and ObI Melifonwu are extremely valuable because the can play multiple positions.

  7. Cameron

    Somewhat off topic here, but I’ve been thinking a bit about this DB group and player profiles and outside corners, slot corners, safeties, big nickels etc. We’ve talked a bit about the possibility of adopting a hybrid scheme utilizing, essentially, 3 safeties. We’ve identified some players that might fit the profile of a ‘big nickel’ or hybrid safety/linebacker type.

    What if that player is already on the team?

    What if his name is DeShawn Shead?

    I know, I know he’s injured and will probably miss a chunk of 2017, but he fits the profile. He has experience at S and CB now and has 4 years in the system. Presuming we bring him back this season he may be the odd man out at outside DB. Just maybe this is the way he gets back on the field.

    • LeoSharp

      That could very well be an option, athletically he is very similar to malcom Smith, they trust him inside playing nickel. he would just need to put on the weight he lost to play outside. Athletic safety with corner cover skills. They would likely still want to pick up another body for the position Shead will be 28 by the start of the season.

      • Kenny Sloth

        I don’t think we should expect Shead to be available to start the year.

        But yes I always hoped someone would usurp him at outside corner and he would be free to be moved around/ play safety depth, but obviously that never happened.

  8. Allen K.

    Great job Kenny!

    I think you accurately captured this pretty deep CB field. I see the top shelf being 1-3. Meaning you could put those guys on any NFL team and it would make team better. 4-8 is the second shelf and they are all very good but how teams rank them will depend upon their scheme.

    For Seahawks, using the 2nd Rnd pick, I would be happy with Marquez White or Kevin King. Both have the height/length. You can always add muscle but not height/length. I wonder how many of these CBs play similar technique as what Carrol teaches. I have heard Huskies are similar, wonder if that makes Seahawks assessment just a bit more accurate compared to guessing on those in other systems/technique.

    • Kenny Sloth

      I don’t think there’s any CB that is scheme transcendent in this class.

      Maybe Jones or Lattimore.

      I don’t know that any college team has anything close to Seattle’s technique.

      Adoree Jackson has amazing feet and a strong press

    • RWIII

      If Kenny King post a 40 time in the mid 4.4 range which I think he will. Look for King to go early 2nd round. Maybe even sneak into the late 1st round.

  9. Hawkfaninmt

    Is there any connection to success in the NFL of players that played in the same position group in college?

    For example, King and Baker already have chemistry and have enjoyed success at a big program. Is there any precedent that something like that is a pro as they head into the NFL? Likewise the duo from Colorado… just something I have thought about but don’t have an answer to

    • Kenny Sloth

      I’m not sure about that, but Seattle isn’t afraid to reunite college teammates.

  10. RealRhino2

    BTW, Dane Brugler had some bad things to say about one of my draft crushes, DT Jarron Jones from ND. Said his talent could be top 50, but had character issues. Said he “refused to play” in Army and Navy games b/c he didn’t want to risk injury. Anybody else hear anything about this?

    Doesn’t sound like a “team first” Seahawks guy if true, unfortunately.

  11. Sea Mode

    Just rewatched Reddick highlights. I feel like hoping to get him at 26 is like hoping to get Keanu Neal last year. 🙁

    If Jarrad Davis is still available that would be one heck of a consolation prize though. Screams “Seahawk” to me.

    • Rob Staton

      Reddick might go #17 exactly like Neal too.

      • Sea Mode

        Absolutely, although I think there’s also a pretty decent chance he gets nabbed at #16.

        That would be the worst if Reddick/Davis went 16/17 (or vice versa). Terrible…and quite possible.

        • Rob Staton

          Certainly possible Baltimore go for him.

          The positive there is they have a huge void at safety and lost their best WR, so they have other needs at a possible sweet spot.

          • Bayahawk

            I think Baltimore might be looking closely at Baker. Good character, great skills at a position with even bigger need for them after today.

      • Cameron

        Got to think Scott M would take either of Reddick or Davis.

        • Rob Staton

          Very possible

          • D-OZ

            Might have to settle for Davis,Watt, or Obi. Garcia on a trade back?

            • Rob Staton

              I think Watt will go to a true 3-4 as an OLB. Not convinced he’ll be a SEA target unless he tests through the roof. I need to watch more of him. Got the impression he was more intensity/effort than freaky athleticism.

              Garcia will fall IMO due to the weight issues.

              • HI Hawk

                I think Watt will surprise in the athleticism department. I think he would be a huge success at SLB in Seattle if they end up going that route. Could play on all 3 downs as a LB or rush-end.

  12. Sea Mode

    Great stuff, Kenny.

    I will try to remedy the Cutrer situation sometime soon… cause he’s worth it.

    It’s hard to say this with so many moving parts going into the draft, but I will be pretty surprised if he doesn’t end up a Hawk.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Him and Corn Elder can really lay the wood! Or Maize as the case may be

      • Sea Mode

        Lol you gotta stop with all those Corny jokes… :-0

  13. lil'stink

    Nice article Kenny – thanks for taking the time to share it. The guest posts are a great idea, still waiting for the one from Volume12 🙂

    I’m liking Corn Elder more and more. I know we won’t draft him because of his lack of length, which I understand. But he plays so much bigger than he is. We talk about “nasty” and finishing strong when it comes to OT’s, but Elder has this quality in spades. Seems like he has a good football IQ, instincts, and coverage skills as well. His potential return skills are a huge bonus – Lockett is a special returner but he’s shown so much promise as a WR I almost want him to focus exclusively on that.

    One of the positions I hope we target in the 3rd or 4th (if we trade back to pick up a pick here) is a hybrid S/CB sort of player. I will be interested to see how well Elder performs in the combine. Does he have the speed and range to convert to be a backup to ET3 and a spot time slot CB? Tedric Thompson and John Johnson are two other guys that seem interesting. Either might be a solid backup for ET3, with the potential athleticism to see snaps at CB. Johnson’s arms are currently listed at 31.5″, though 🙁

  14. Misfit74

    Love this article.

    Do you think it’s a deliberate strategy in training that CBs often sacrifice weight for speed, knowing how critical their testing times will be?

    • Cameron

      I don’t think that’s wise, personally, as the player risks being viewed undersized.

      Typically weight doesn’t keep CBs from testing well. Can see it being an issue for RB’s and OL and DL though.

      • Kenny Sloth

        This is a really thin corner class, but they have length and sure they’re lithe, but also easily muscled off the ball.

        As Volume12 has postulated here before, I think the combine won’t be kind to some of these guys.

        Length is most important imo.

        • Cameron

          It is indeed. Stribling, Cutrer, King, Jones, Weatherspoon are all very slight framed corners.

          • HI Hawk

            As others have said, they will get bigger and fill out with NFL training. Because of natural maturity and the organizations access to world class trainers and nutritionists, their weight at the combine is unlikely to factor at all. Consider that the highest picked (and first picked) CB in the Pete Carroll era was Walter Thurmond (4th Rd) at 189 lbs. The most recent newcomer to the LOB, DeAndre Elliott (UDFA) was also 189 lbs. Jeremy Lane (6th Rd) was 184 lbs and Richard Sherman (5th Rd) was only 195, not exactly hulking. On the other end, Simon (6th Rd) and Maxwell (6th Rd) were the biggest at 202.

      • Kenny Sloth

        This is a really light corner class, but they have length and sure they’re lithe, but also easily muscled off the ball.

        As Volume12 has postulated here before, I think the combine won’t be kind to some of these guys.

        Length is most important imo.

        • Misfit74

          The thing is I think players can add muscle/bulk much more tangibly than speed and teams know this, yet a slow time for a corner could be a death knell to their draft stock.

          • Kenny Sloth

            It doesn’t seem 40 time is high on Seattle’s priority list.

            I believe Rob is going to have a piece about physical paragons for Seahawk Draft Targets coming very soon

            • Misfit74

              I agree it’s not as high on Seattle’s list, but generally a slow time can really affect the perception and grade of a player, esp at CB. I think players would rather be fast than bulked up comin into the Combine and Pro Days. I think to a certain extent it’s strategy.

              • Cameron

                I question the premise that bigger = slower, at least at the size spectrum we are talking about (180-200 lbs).

                It’s largely a function of the kind of weight added. Obviously fat or hypertrophic muscle mass gain can have a negative impact, but the right strength program would seek to convert muscle mass gains into strength and power in the weeks leading up to the combine.

                • Misfit74

                  Though they aren’t mutually exclusive, that’s a good point. There does also appear to be a significant contrast between many of the college training programs and those of the NFL. I think it’s fair to wonder what players choose to prioritize in preparation for the Combine. Not to say bulk, strength aren’t important and also a big factor in training, but speed makes money and dazzling speeds from DBs are a bigger sell than a few extra reps on the bench, for example. You’re absolutely right: the type of weight is crucial. I’m looking forward to the explosion drills to help clarify some of that also, and the eyeball test in contrast with speed and other drills. This is gonna be fun.

            • LeoSharp

              Expect the Seahawks corners to be excellent broad jumpers. typically longer 10 and a half feet. They also tend to go with extreme arm length over agility.

  15. Sea Mode

    Kenny, I like Tre’ White as well, but don’t you think he will be exclusively a slot corner at the next level? Nice PR value though too at least.

    Seems unlikely he would interest the Hawks, especially since they would probably have to grab him with their first pick.

    How would you order your CB list as far as Hawks interest as of now (going by tape before we get the arm length on all of them)?

    • Kenny Sloth

      Short answer; no, I really think he has the length and awareness to excel as a #1 one day.

      I think Kevin King has to be high on that list.

      Ditto Jeremy Cutrer

  16. CharlieTheUnicorn

    Something tells me Kenny has too much time on his hands…..
    and needs to get out of the basement once in awhile;)

    • Kenny Sloth

      Well, I’m having beers with my buddy I just helped move.

      Maybe i won’t get a tan, but I’m certainly no recluse 😉

      • The Hawk is Howling

        You Fu Kevin King rule Kenny! Best personality on this Blog, Kenny Lawler hands down M8!

    • nichansen01

      That’s a tad rude… I love your guest posts Kenny.

    • Ed

      Why knock what other people love. Some people read books, some watch movies, some play video games or go to the theatre. Everyone chooses what they enjoy in life, so why knock it. Keep doing what you love everybody

    • The Hawk is Howling

      Something tells me Charlie got his unicorn horn chopped off and that’s why he feels compelled to be a rude jerk to our Boy Kenny! I Love you Kenny and writing is brilliant!

  17. Scraps

    “But that’s why we have the combine, right?”

    Thank you for not using the already clichéd “amirite?”

    • Kenny Sloth

      Heh don’t mention it..

  18. bankhawk

    Great one, Kenny! So many possibilities and such a variety of profiles to consider. Just to throw out a question to êxtend the dícussion in a related direction, the Hawks have a fair number of cbs signed to futures contracts. How do folks feel about the roles that your various Parrish Coxs, Stanley Jean Baptists, et al may play in the final picture? In other words, does anyone care to lay out their ideal scenario, with ideal additions through the draft-how might you imagine all this chemistry coming together, if you got to write the script?

    • Volume12

      I think people expecting any more than 1 of SJB, Elliott, Seisay, Cox to make the team will be highly disappointed. My guess? Elliott.

      These are camp bodies and competition. Same with the bodies at DT.

  19. Sea Mode

    So here’s a little different approach to think about now that we have the extra R3 comp. *fist bumps all around for that*

    R1P26- LB Jarrad Davis
    Add another Alpha to our pack. Simple as that. Reddick won’t be there (think Keanu Neal last year…). Davis might not either but with the injury he at least has a better shot. Screams “Seahawk”. Bonus quote from a Feb. 3 Alvin Kamara interview:

    Q: This is a tough question for an SEC guy, but who’s the best player you went up against in college?
    A: “There’s so many. I could be cliche and go with the Alabama guys, but I’m not going to do that. Every week in the SEC, you’re going to face a draftable guy. I’m going to go with Jarrad Davis from Florida, the linebacker.”

    *TRADE: Seattle sends all 3 R3 picks to Washington in exchange for R2+R4
    McCloughan said he wants 12 picks in this draft. He currently has 10. This gets him up to 11 and gives him a lot of ammo in R3 of a class he well knows is deep. He would have 5 picks in a span of 33 spots.
    From SEA: R3P90, R3P102, R3P106
    From WAS: R2P49, R4P124

    R2P49- CB Obi Melifonwu/Kevin King
    Seattle loves freak athletes. I can’t decide who they will like more between the two, and that’s a good thing. Viable option from the get-go at CB2 (King) and long term high ceiling as Sherm’s eventual replacement. I think they see Obi at CB too in the Browner mold, as well as Buffalo in certain matchups.

    R2P58- TE Evan Engram
    “Best hands in the draft”- a quote from JS about Kenny Lawler last year. This year, they once again get the best hands in the draft, but this time those hands come attached to a 6031, 236 body with 32 3/8 arm, 10″ hands and a crazy vertical jump.
    He is a joker TE/HB to fill Luke Willson’s spot in the TE room, an upgrade over Kearse split out as a WR on the red line, and will help our red-zone offense with his jump ball ability. A modern-day mismatch weapon.
    If anyone needs a refresher:

    R4P124- S/CB Tedric Thompson
    Range, instincts, agression, and ball skills to back up Earl at FS, and versatility to play in the slot when the matchup dictates. Also allows Lane to slide outside to start the year if need be.

    R6P210- CB Jeremy Cutrer
    I actually think he goes a lot earlier than this. He is really that good. Wonder what could have been if he had been able to accept the LSU offer… That’s his potential.

    ***LOB reloaded***

    R7P244- RB Taquan “Smoke” Mizzell
    Think while most are looking for a bruiser, they like our current RB’s chances to stay healthy in a rotation and add a different profile to the RB room. Running people over is one way to break a tackle, making people miss is another just as effective. Also a productive slot receiver. Only player in ACC history with 1,500+ career rushing and 1,500+ career receiving yards. Production, check!

    (If they do want a bruiser, James Conner might be around as well as a FB/RB hybrid hammer.)

    UDFA- OL Project (TEF pending)
    They sign some veteran insurance in FA as backup/competition on the right side and keep faith in the guys they’ve got growing together as a unit. Development and continuity is the only way when you are not in range to pick the top OL talent.
    Left side: Fant, Glow, (Odhiambo)
    Center: Britt, Hunt
    Right side: Ifedi, Gilliam, (Robert Myers), (FA)
    Depth: Sowell, Pericak, (Project)

    UDFA- WR Keevan Lucas
    Small guy, long arms, great hands, big plays. Understudy for ADB in the slot. Probably gets drafted day 3, but what the heck, I’ll leave him here until somebody convinces me he’s not that good. 😉

    – No DT: while it hurt to miss out on a guy I like DT Stevie Tu’ikolovatu (potential Vince Wilfork 2.0 without the belly), they have Quinton Jefferson and Garrison Smith coming off IR, plus John Jenkins. Maybe we get lucky and land Calais Campbell too. Even if we don’t, I think they like the current rotation and can add cheap depth in FA if they want more.

    – The big change in this mock is the “luxury” (as explained above, perhaps not really that much of a luxury in the end- gotta draft always a year ahead of need) pick on offense. The extra pick I think might allow us to grab an offensive weapon as well in the early rounds. The idea of the trade is just to get in range for King/Melifonwu, who I think will go Top 50, without using the R1 pick.

    – Seattle only drafts 6 players in this scenario. I’m fine with that. Quality over quantity for me at this point in Seattle’s team-building process. Most day 3 picks won’t even make the roster anyway. (Of our 18 day 3 picks over the last 3 years, only 4 have contributed in a significant way and 4 are still on the roster TBD: Marsh, KPL, Glow, Burley // Jefferson, Collins, Hunt, Lawler).

    Maybe JS won’t be ok with that (9.3 picks on average, I know). But if we sort of count the guys we have coming off IR as picks for this year (Quinton Jefferson, Garrison Smith, Damontre Moore, Troymaine Pope, Brandon Cottom) and consider that we have gotten more contributors from UDFA than day 3 of the draft anyway, I think we would be just fine to hone in on our select targets with a real chance to upgrade our current roster.

    Now have at it!

    • HawkTalker #1

      I see a lot of mocks where Reddick is not available at 26. And even more showing Davis going he does.

      Nothing would make me happier than to get either Reddick or Davis, but it is appearing increasingly unlikely.

    • Cameron

      Interesting scenario that I hope doesn’t happen. Neither of Obi or Kevin King are worth that kind of move up the board for imo. Personally I think there will be lots of interesting corner and safety option well into day 2. Miss out on Kevin King? Take an Ahkello Witherspoon or a Howard Wilson.

      Same goes for Evan Engram. Nice player but another target for Russell Wilson just not that high of a priority.

      I hear a lot of chatter on this blog about how Seattle doesn’t have many needs or that we don’t have many roster spots available and I am here to tell you all I think that’s just not true. We have plenty of needs. As of right now we have no:

      RT (Gilliam RFA)
      TE3 (Wilson UFA)
      Swing Tackle?
      SAM (Morgan UFA)
      K (Blair Walsh?)
      OCB2 (unless you think Lane is the answer)
      FS/SS 2 (ET injury showed lack of depth)

      In addition we need to be planning for possible eventual replacements for 2014 draft class, most of whom need to be replaced anyways, including:

      Cassius Marsh (We really should take a stab at an edge with one of our 3rd rounders)
      Paul Richardson

      and the eventual replacement of bad contracts in:

      Jeremy Lane
      Jermaine Kearse

      I think we could easily justify making 8 or 9 picks this draft

      • HawkTalker #1

        Nice post, agreed.

        I may be in the minority, but I’m not sure even if Shead was healthy that he performs well enough to have a starting spot.

        Richardson, however, showed enough at the end of the season to merit giving him a shot in 2017 to see what he can do.

        • Cameron

          In my mind Shead is an adequate starter, and adequate starters you should always be drafting competition for.

          P-Rich absolutely deserves a chance to prove his late season performance was no fluke. He may be WR2 or 3 to start the season depending upon Lockett health

          • Volume12

            A couple of their picks this year will be drafted for a year out and you can’t fill every need in 1 off-season. There’s always gonna be needs and wants.

            So many complaints about Kearse and Lane, but then why worry about replacing them?

            Couple FAs, 4-5 draft picks, 2-3 UDFAs this year, and an addition in TC
            like they make every year.

      • Sea Mode

        Thank you, Cameron. This is exactly the kind of feedback I need to help broaden perspective and refine approach.

        That said, I think my draft scenario exactly fills almost all of those needs you mention:

        RT (Gilliam RFA)- will be tendered, R2 my guess. Still has upside as shown at the end of last season.

        TE3 (Wilson UFA)- replaced and upgraded with Engram.

        Swing Tackle?- Sowell and veteran FA signing, as mentioned.

        SAM (Morgan UFA)- Jarrad Davis. Huge upgrade.

        K (Blair Walsh?)- I would think they stay with the familiar face in Hauschka. Walsh was brought in just to push him a bit. Competition works wonders. I have a hard time thinking what would be going through the back of our minds every time Walsh steps out for a critical FG…

        OCB2 (unless you think Lane is the answer)- King or Melifonwu. Lane is a decent stopgap as they (or one of the current CBs already developing on the roster) are ready to play.

        FS/SS 2 (ET injury showed lack of depth) FS addressed with Tedric Thompson. SS with Melifonwu.and re-sign McCray as he filled in well and offers elite ST play.

        Cassius Marsh (We really should take a stab at an edge with one of our 3rd rounders)- Rusher is one area I really did miss out on in this scenario. Touche. Maybe a FA addition (Sheard?)

        KPL- Upgraded with Reddick

        Paul Richardson- Let’s see what he does with some playing time this year hopefully healthy before we decide we need to move on from him.

        Jeremy Lane- Thompson

        Jermaine Kearse- Upgraded with Engram

        • Sea Mode

          *KPL- Upgraded with Davis (not Reddick, I wish…)

      • Sea Mode

        While I don’t in any way have these two players set in stone for the Hawks, I can’t agree with your reasoning for dismissing them. “Not worth it” and “Not a priority need”.

        Reasoning behind Melifonwu/King: I admit I fall a little bit into the “higher round automatically = better” argument, but I don’t see much point in adding ‘just another guy’ to the 4 CBs we already have on slow simmer at the VMAC (Desir, Seisay, Elliott, Jean-Baptiste). Those guys all have long arms and are pretty athletic. I think if we are going to add another CB in R2-R3, he had better be a through-the-roof potential guy that has a better chance of topping all these others on the back end of the roster.

        Of course, I can’t judge smarts, but Obi is said to be quite intelligent and it’s not every day a 6-4 guy who is fluid in coverage comes along. Add to that unique physical profile the positional versatility as Buffalo and that’s why I think it might be more valuable than adding two JAGs in R3.

        Reasoning behind Engram: Seattle puts top priority on efficiency with their WRs. They know that they will likely not be getting a high volume of targets, so they need to maximize the return on each target. That is why hands are so important and why they highlight that as a trait they look for. When they do throw it to you, catch it! That and the mismatch potential are why I think Engram may well be worth it.

        As far as not being a “priority” need, I don’t think that really stands as an argument. It’s not like they are only going to draft no positions outside of LB, CB, OL this year because those are the only “priority” needs. You do your best to fill those spots, but when talent is sitting there that fits really well what you want to do at a position, you don’t try to force the board and you go with the superior talent.

        I would rather get 3-4 guys I really love at each position than 8-9 guys I think are just “pretty good”. The depth of talent we already have on the roster at this point is less likely to be beaten out by just a “pretty good” draft pick IMO.

        Thanks for the discussion. Look forward to hearing more of your (and anyone else’s) thoughts if you have time.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          “Seattle puts top priority on efficiency with their WRs.”

          Totally agree. Last draft season I did an analysis of this very subject that I may dust off, update for this year, and present to Rob as a guest post.

          Basically, my premise (borrowed from Kevin Cole at Rotoviz) is that a college WR’s “market share” (or percentage) of his team’s total receptions and reception yards is a more accurate predictor of success in the NFL than the raw numbers themselves.

          In other words, a WR’s % of total team recs/rec yards >>> total individual recs/rec yards.

          And to a significant extent, SEA’s WR draft choices demonstrate they subscribe to this line of thinking.

          • Sea Mode

            Hey, good to see you around, CTEric.

            +1 for the guest post! Absolutely perfect for this blog.

            Do you see anyone else yet in this draft that jumps out to you for his hands? I honestly haven’t looked much at WRs because I don’t think it’s a need at this point, but Engram intrigues me as a joker TE/WR and definitely stands out for his hands and athleticism, two premiums in the VMAC War Room. Seems to have a cool personality too.

            My only other crush at WR has been Keevan Lucas, Tulsa. Curious to know now how he grades out in efficiency, especially when he played alongside Keyarris Garrett and then after Garrett left.

            See you around!

            • Volume12

              USC WR Darreus Rogers. Doesn’t have big time stats, but neither did Kevin Norwood, Kris Durham, etc.

              He’s much, much better than JuJu.

              • Kenny Sloth

                Ditto on Rogers>JuJu

                I really like Allen Robinette from Navy. Forget the similar names he reminds me a lot of Allen Robinson coming out.

                Lots of great RAC and 50/50 balls despite lacking otherworldly athleticism

                • Sea Mode

                  Thanks, you guys are awesome.

    • HI Hawk

      I do really like Evan Engram, I’m glad you mentioned him since nationally he’s being underappreciated. He could be a great fit too considering what they do with Jimmy Graham’s contract situation and usage/price ratio. If the Hawks tend back toward more ball control offense, maybe Engram would be a good choice to replace Graham in 2018 (let him hit FA, 3rd Rd Comp likely). Vannett could take over as starter for the early down snaps, Engram replaces him as the seam stretcher. However, if the Hawks continue to trend as a pass first offense I think Graham is a vital component and then Vannett is a fine #2 so I don’t see Engram as enough of a need to use a high pick on.

  20. nichansen01

    I really like Alabama’s Dalvin Tomlinson as a DT at the end of round 3. I loved Jarran Reed, so do you think if tomlinson slips into late in the third, seattle could be interested? We need another mainstay at the defensive tackle postion. John Jenkins and Garrison Smith are all well and good, but adding a plyer like Tomlinson as a guy who can stay healthy and on the roster all season intrigues me.

  21. nichansen01

    I also really like the idea of bringing Damontre Moore back.

    • Sea Mode

      He’s still on the roster.

  22. RWIII

    Rob : Tony Pauline has Cam Robinson at number 10 on his board. Would you consider Robinson if guys like Ramczyk, Bolles, Reddick, Davis were off the board?

    • nichansen01

      I personally would consider it. Robinson is more of a right tackle in the NFL though.

      • Sea Mode

        Most people are saying guard.

    • Misfit74

      Not at 26, he looks too much like James Carpenter to me.

      • Smitty1547

        In all honesty a cheap James Carpenter would be an upgrade for us.

  23. The Hawk is Howling

    Wow Kenny you are such an exquisite writer well done indeed! I Love your personality M8! White might be right in this draft, someone Rob seems to like but not extremely keen on. kevin King does seem perfect across from Sherman though!

    Go MF Hawks

  24. Coleslaw

    Good work Kenny.
    Off topic but a guy I think Seattle will love: Tanoh Kpassagnon. He’s just a freak.. Could e get him at 58? I’d LOVE to

    • Cameron

      58? To rich for me. I’d entertain taking a stab at him with one of our 3rd rounders though. Freakish measurables.

    • HawkTalker #1

      Glad you posted this. I didn’t know this player but went over some tape and I really like him, but with some reservations. He has played primarily against smaller schools and lesser competition. Can he play against the better college players, let alone the pros? He sure seems like a project, it a freak athlete no doubt. On the upside, at least he flashes often. Lots of sacks and TFL, but with a “*”.

      As I have been working on my next mock draft that takes into consideration the new 3rd round pick, an opportunity exists with the second pick to possibly select Demarcus Walker. As much as Imlove his tape, the concern with him is s motor. Seems to go quiet for stretches where he seems almost non-existant. Given his pretty hyped rep, going after even more of a question mark at 58 would be even harder. CBS has him ranked around 127. Would definitely be a better value there, but even then, worth spending a high value 3rd round pick on a position that is not really a current “need” and on a crap shoot of a project? Would be challenging. Would be hard enough for a more proven player like Walker.

      • Coleslaw

        Wasn’t sure of his projected range. But I think he has the potential to be worthy of that high of a pick, imo. If he falls more, great!!
        Walker would be a cool add too.

  25. Coleslaw

    1. Haason Reddick
    2. D’onta Foreman
    3. Rasul Douglas
    3. Adoree Jackson
    3. Cooper Kupp
    I would fall head over heels in love with this draft

    • HawkTalker #1

      That would be a monster start and there are still many quality players in later rounds as well. Not a bad “Fab Five”, if we don’t trade down. 😉

      • HawkTalker #1

        My personal take is that knowing that the FO will be covering all the needs/gaps to the best of their ability with trades/FA/Draft/UDFA and having that minimize some of my overall anxiety with the team needs, I’d be thrilled to death (and relax a ton) if we were able to pick up Reddick (or even Davis for that matter) with our first pick. That would be a GREAT omen for the rest of the draft after nailing one of the more challenging positions early. Go Hawks.

        • Old but Slow

          Gotta be with you on this. My anxiety level will be much reduced if we hit a home run with the first pick. My feeble being can not take too many instances of my guy going the pick before our turn.

          It is time to get some accurate readings on these guys. The combine is one of my favorite times, somewhat diminished this year since I gave up my TV. Can someone give us a heads up on what are the best sites for getting the combine results?

          • CLB

            I’ve depended on CBS sports combine numbers for years, of course it’s showing 2016 results until new results come out a week or so from now:

            You can click on each category at the top to get the lowest/highest numbers of all the players, sometimes have to scroll through 2+ pages to get to them in certain drills, a lot of players don’t take part in some drills and lowest results will just show up as – for a couple or more pages.

            For instance, for the short shuttle drill (link below), had to click twice on shuttle to go from highest #s to lowest, then go through to page 4 before it stopped showing – for players skipping the drill (I guess – or not taking the drill is the lowest). Justin Simmons, a big 6’2″ free safety from BC had a short shuttle of 3.85, the lowest number since 2006, and the numbers then increase from lowest to highest for all other players that took the drill. I remember seeing Simmons’ near the top in a lot of drills last year and thinking he would have been a great pick for us in the middle rounds, possibly at 97 instead of Rees at OL, believe we still could have gotten Odhiambo a few rounds later. Per wikipedia about Simmons “At the event, he finished in the top five in his position group in five of seven field events. He was also the overall winner in two, the 20-yard shuttle and the 60-yard shuttle and was second overall in the three-cone drill.” Also had a 40″ vertical and 10’6″ broad jump. He wound up with 30 tackles and 2 int. as a backup for Denver, and helped win the game against the Saints by blocking a FG that was run back for a TD as time expired. This seems like a perfect example of why Rob and teams look for explosive numbers at the combine and pro days to differentiate players abilities and narrow down who the Seahawks hopefully target in the draft.

          • Sea Mode

            I like itself. You can filter by clicking on certain drills and/or positions to see the top performers.


          • Sea Mode

            For historical results all the way back to 1999, there is this site:

          • Kenny Sloth

            You guys are funny.

            Football is one of the few things that alleviates my anxiety. Even when it’s not going well.

            It reminds me that it’s just a game and life is just a process.

  26. HawkTalker #1

    The post I just made about Walker is actually a byproduct of a tougher subject that will drive all of our picks this year.

    Before any trade downs, we currently have seven picks. I’m pretty sure somewhere or another we will have some trade downs so the front office gets more picks in a very very deep draft. The question is what positions are we looking for and in what round/quality. A good example of this is the linebacker group where intentionally passing on say Reddick or Davis (if available) would force you into picking from a significantly lower skilled tier in following rounds, thus potentially putting more priority on picking a linebacker early. On the flipside, cornerbacks run often and deep through the entire draft, even though it’s still assumed that the best are earlier in the draft this might point to pick from this group later if there wasn’t a significant interest in an early “must have” player (I.e. King). I’m working on a post with some more info to follow, but the initial question that would be interesting to discuss is . . . which positions do we go after and How many of each? As I ran through a couple mock drafts, thinking about this and having a rough draft in my mind beforehand was very helpful as I was looking for value and making the selections.

    Given the prioritization of our needs and wants, first:
    What positions do we go after and how many of each do we want? (Understanding that extraordinary value in a round could dictate some changes)?

    Here’s my strawman for one (my) answer (assuming 8 picks – we all know how PC/JS think, more is better):

    CB (2): One for Lane & one for Shead/depth, and the depth of the class makes this very possible
    LB (1): Need competition & upgrades
    OL(1): Although they might pass here if they are happy with FA acquisitions and hold the line with their communication of confidence in keeping the same group, at least one add here is likely.
    S(1): ET/Kam backup concern. Some quality and LOB hitting Safeties run through the draft, including Luani late, likely an add here.
    DL(1): FA loss may dictate a pick here.
    TE(1): FA loss may dictate a pick here.
    RB(1): With some good RB options available early and late, and after what happened in the draft last year with the high number of picks, hard to see them not adding at least one more this year.
    WR*: ? + UDFA adds
    K*: ? still wondering if they may add Gonzales for more competition.
    *Possible with more picks via trade downs

    There are my (8) positions and quantities. What is your feedback? What would you change?

    • CharlieTheUnicorn

      I think this is a fair list. Needs per position.

      Are LEO/DE/LB all considered one pick or 2 picks? DL, are we talking DT or DE ?
      TE, CB and RB seem to fit into a 3rd round pick range. LB/DE might be 1st round and S/OL could be 2nd round.

      I also agree, they will trade back in the draft for a few more picks. Likeliest to be traded …. #26

    • Old but Slow

      My main concern is that there is more of a need for a linebacker/leo to man up the right side. It is amazing to see that our opponents have so little success running sweeps or bubble screens to their right, because that is KJ territory, and he covers it as well as any outside linebacker I’ve ever seen. It would be good to see the same kind of coverage on the other side. What is an offense to do?

      I do not have the discernment to pick out possible players to make it happen, so I am relying on the brain trust in this site to point me in good directions. I have trust in Rob.

      This front office is impossible to predict, but my impulse is to look for the freak athlete. What is the special quality that John is looking for this year? My uninformed guess that we will be looking for speed.

  27. HawkTalker #1

    BTW, great work again Kenny. Much appreciated.

    Can you add detailed write-ups for (assuming they look good enough):
    Ezra Robertsonn – Tennessee State
    Brandon Wilson – Southern Utah (also on one of the freak athlete lists)
    Horace Richardson – Southern Methodist

    Thanks much!!

    • Old but Slow

      Speaking of Cutrer, the one video I have seen of him (impressive), the announcer was pronouncing his name as Cutrell. I am old, I have hearing issues, I may even be demented by pointless years of draft daffiness, but I non’t think I misheard. Anybody having similar hallucinations?

      • Sea Mode

        Dont think so, just the emphasis is on the last syllable: Cutr-ER. Maybe that’s why you are hearing that.

      • D-OZ

        I heard that too….

      • Kenny Sloth

        My girlfriend is deaf and she heard cutrull

  28. millhouse-serbia

    What you think, should JS give all 5 pick if he can get Davis/Reddick – Melifonwu/Baker – King/Douglas?

    1st combination

    No 26 – Davis/Reddick

    No 44 ( No 58+ No 90) – Melifonwu/Baker

    No 83 (No 102 + No 106) – King/Douglas

    2nd combination

    No 26 – Davis/Reddick

    No 50 (No 58 + No106) – Melifonwu/Baker

    No 71 (No 90 + No102) – King/Douglas

    • Old but Slow


      • Sea Mode

        Why not?

        Depending on how the board falls, that might be the only way to get the players the Hawks want the most (either those listed by millhouse or others) at clear positions of need.

        I understand there will still be some good talent at the end of R3, but if we want a clear upgrade at certain positions and not just a cheap replacement of more or less the same talent level we already have on the roste at those positions, the probability is higher the earlier we pick them.

        Not saying for sure it’s what JS will do, but I think it’s a fair question by millhouse and at least deserves not to be written off with a one-word reply.

        • Old but Slow

          I just don’t see this front office giving up 2 picks in a talent heavy draft. A late pick, yes, but in this draft, get all the early guys you can.

          • Sea Mode

            Fair enough.

            I guess it just comes down to whether you prefer two picks in the top 50 and a third around 70
            five picks in the top 106, albeit with three of those coming in the back 16 of that range.

            Daniel Jeremiah (I think it was) said the other day this is the type of draft where there are “70 players in the top 50”, but I don’t think there are 100+.

            This isn’t totally fair, I know, and depends on how the board falls each year, etc., but the way I see it is: would you rather get two Frank Clark/Jarran Reed level players or three Rees Odhiambo/Nick Vannett/CJ Prosise level players?

  29. Trevor

    Great list and nice writeup Kenny!

    After looking a lot closer at the DB class. I think it is clearly the deepest group in a long long time. That being said the only two guys I see being able to come in and start opposite Sherm year #1 are Latimore or Jones and both should be top 20 picks.

    If we take a DB with our first pick I hope it with a trade back into the early 2nd. Then Buddah Baker or Obi make the most sense. Obi as the matchup guy we discussed in detail all ready. But Baker is the guy I like more as a slot corner to start and use a blitzer etc. He is also an eventual replacement for Earl.

    I really think our best option at CB value wise is to take one of the following 3 guys in Rd #3.

    #1 Howard Wilson – The more I watch him the more I like him. I think he is incredibly under rated and if his medicals check out would be an absolute steal in the 3rd.

    #2 Rasul Douglas – Maxi 2.0 I cannot think of a guy in quite a while who looks more like a Hawks corner. Great length and battles hard. He is also a ball Hawk. I would be shocked if he is not high on Petes want list.

    #3 Akhello Witherspoon – I know he get knocked for his lack of tackling but I am incredible impressed with his strength and cover skills. Could be another big riser on draft day. I was not a fan of their scheme but that Buffs secondary was good last year.

    Then take Jermey Cutrer in Rd#4 or #5 with one of the picks obtained with the trade back. I agree Kenny he is a big time sleeper.

    • Sea Mode

      Wow, you named the exact guys I like too in R3 if that’s the way they decide to go. (+Cutrer)

      I would be on board with Melifonwu or King in R2 if that’s who the Hawks liked and thought could be special. Hard to tell with so many options in a deep draft how they will value CB.

      I do think it has to be someone special though, a cut above Desir, Elliott, Seisay, Jean-Baptiste. Do we really need yet another project like them? Wish we knew where they stood with them. Gosh, if they really like what they have, they might just take Cutrer later and a slot CB/S like Thompson/Budda/Maye and call it good.

      • Trevor

        I would be fine with Baker in the 2nd and Cutrer later as well.

  30. Trevor

    Walter Jones said earlier this year that he wanted to get into coaching and still lives in Sea.

    Can someone please tell me why the Hawks have not hired him as a consultant / coach to spend the off season working with Fant, Gilliam, Ifedi and Rees? Our coaching staff have shown they can coach run blocking but not pass protection. Can you think of a better guy for our young guys to learn from? You have a legend in your backyard asking to come aboard. Pete please please extend a hand what do you have to loose.

    • Ishmael

      Great players often make terrible coaches. Jones might be the exception of course.

      • Trevor

        That is true I meant just as a consultant for the summer to help those guys with drills, tips, fundamentalist etc.

        Would be great for big Walt to see if he really likes coaching and awesome for our young guys to even just spend sometime and pick up some things from a legend. I don’t see much downside.

    • vrtkolman

      I agree Trevor. No guarantees he would become a good coach but it’s worth a shot.

      • Kenny Sloth

        He can have whatever he wants <3

    • HI Hawk

      As a natural athlete, he might be able to help the Gilliam’s and Fant’s quite a bit with timing, balance, and hand usage. Also, we know he can teach them how to push an Escalade in the offseason, don’t want them using poor technique and getting a back injury or anything.

  31. Trevor

    What would it take in draft capital to move up from 26 to 19 in Rd #1 or to 17 as you know Mcloughin wants more picks and would covet our 3rd rounders. I really think if we can move in front of both Denver and the Texans we could get Bolles or Ryan Ramyzyk and that would be the best possible outcome in this draft.

    With the elite defensive depth in this class then if we cannot get an OT in Rd #1 then I hope we trade back with the first pick unless Reddick is still there at 26 and that seems highly unlikely.

    • HawkTalker #1

      Using one of the most except the trade value charts, which is just a guideline and not necessarily something all of the teams use, there would be 175 points of difference moving to number 19 and 250 points of difference moving to number 17. That is the equivalent of adding to our number 26 pick, two of the late third round picks as well.

      I think the struggle with that tactic is that you would be sacrificing too good quality players you could have received in the third round for the trade up, so basically you’re trading three players for one. That may make it difficult for the front office to get all the players it wants to from this draft. As much as I would love to have Boles, not sure if I think he worth 3 good players.

      • HawkTalker #1

        However, if Seattle was looking to move up just enough to get Reddick, working something out with the Troy Detrt at number 21 could be possible. That would should only take our 26 and a low third round comp pick.

      • Trevor

        Thanks appreciate the info. I need to track one of those draft trade value charts.

        • Sea Mode

          This is my favorite because you can highlight each team’s picks:

          • Hawktalker

            Thanks – since it is now accurate with comp picks, better than the one I was using.

            However, it appears our second round #7 pick #244 is wrong. Don’t think we have that one.

            We currently only have 7 picks (pre-trades) . . .

          • Trevor

            Thanks this is great!

  32. RWIII

    I like the idea of moving up to take Bolles /Ramczyk. The problem is you are letting your defense get older. This is the draft to start rebuilding your defense.

    • Sea Mode

      Even if we spent, say, two of the R3 picks to move up, we would still have a R2 and R3 pick to grab some youth on defense. That could be our LB/DB combo like Melifonwu and Walker Jr. or Bowser and Thompson.

      OT is by FAR our hugest need IMO. The only reason we are talking about drafting defense in R1 is because we are pretty sure the only two tackles worth a R1 pick will be long gone before even coming into tradeable range.

      If there is any chance to get Bolles, we gotta go for it without thinking twice. Ramczyk I would think twice, but probably go for it still as well.

  33. EranUngar

    Sorry for being off the topic but…

    If we are looking for some “special” physical specimen to red shirt and develop into a scary RT –

    How about this guy –

    He moves well for a 6-9, 360 guy…and he moves DTs off the ball like they were CBs….

    • Rob Staton

      Really struggles with his weight and leverage. Was easily handled at the Senior Bowl at times because he’s an enormous target. Being that tall and big is not a good thing.

      • Kenny Sloth

        To add, he is a local guy and from what I’ve heard a great leader for USC

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      I watch plenty of ‘SC football and no thanks to Banner. Been waiting for a couple of seasons for him to step up and dominate, but it hasn’t happened. No reason to think he will with an increase in competition.

  34. RWIII

    Ranking the Hawk needs.
    1. Offensive tackle
    3. Linebacker
    4.Getting younger on the D.L./Edge Rusher
    5. Safety
    6.Running back depth.
    If JS can find an offensive tackle in free agency that changes the whole draft dynamics.

    • Trevor

      Agree and that finding a starting veteran OT should be priority #1 but if not then I think a trade up to 17 or 19 for Bolles or Ramyzyk at least has to be considered

      Still have no idea why they are at least not trying to get Ifedi trained to move to RT. I mean we used a 1st round pick on him and he is the perfect physical specimen to play RT in our scheme. I thought that was way we picked him. I know hey say they want continuity but he did not show anything special as an RG in fact if anything it looked like a poor position for him as he looked lost and could not use his length. Just another to the long list of curious decisions made with regards to our OL and its development. It is much easier to find or draft a quality Guard than OT when you have the ideal athlete already on your team why not take advantage of that asset and maximize its value. Leaving Ifedi at RG makes zero sense to me.

      • HawkTalker #1

        That does beg the question, if the Seahawks are good with Fant at left tackle, why the resistance to putting a more experienced and more physical player like Ifedi at right tackle?
        My hope is they have plans to upgrade the right tackle spot in someway, making this less of an issue than it currently appears to be. Time will tell.

      • lil'stink

        Justin Britt was arguably the worst RT in the league his rookie year. We move him to LG and he was equally as bad there. I think there is validity to the argument that Ifedi needs some consistency more than anything else. I think he might go back to square one if he goes to RT.

        I guess the question is, did we see anything out of Ifedi to give you the confidence that he could play RT? He has the prototypical size and length to play the position. He showed potential in the run game. His pass protection was consistently bad. As much as we struggled at both tackle spots this season there was probably good reason we never tried him at RT.

        For all we know the team will try him at RT. I get the impression that the general consensus is that he just won’t be able to make it as a RT.

  35. drewdawg11

    I would love to take a corner early and maybe use one of those thirds to get a Dan Feeney, let him play RG, and kick Ifedi outside. They would have to transition him to tackle asap, however so that he may have ample reps in every camp. He needs to get the technique down and definitely needs to know his assignments against odd fronts, etc.

    • Sea Mode

      I feel almost certain Feeney will go in R2. He is top 2 guard in this draft and top 5 OL for sure.

      Even if he fell into R3, it would be highly unlikely he makes it to 90. But hey, stranger things have happened on draft day!

  36. Kenny Sloth

    I dreamt we orchestrated a massive trade-up.

    Its draft season

  37. CHawk Talker Eric

    Nice read Kenny. You have a good, albeit corny, “ear” for humor 😉 You definitely put effort into your post and didn’t just cob-ble it together. And there’s a kernel of truth in what you say.

    To my eye, the two most Seahawky DBs in this draft class are Kevin King and Justin Evans. If Reddick isn’t available at 26 (and he’d be my first choice), I could see Evans being the choice (either at 26 or after a small trade down to very early R2), then a trade up from 58 to mid R2 to take King.

    The more I think about it, the less I see Ramczyk as a target. Too speculative a pick for SEA without knowing how he tests athletically.

    • Kenny Sloth

      This draft is going to be interesting if versatile players like Evans start falling!!

    • Rob Staton

      A lot of people will be talking about Justin Evans this time next week.

      His athleticism and propensity to deliver jarring hits is Seahawky. A lot of people talk up Budda Baker to Seattle. Evans is more athletic and bigger. Baker more consistent in the tackle. Neither has great hands. Length might be an issue for both even at slot or buffalo.

      • Sea Mode

        How would you say Evans and Maye comp to Keanu Neal and/or Deonne Buchannon?

    • Sea Mode

      I think the tape will be enough on Ramczyk, just like it was with Odhiambo. (although Odhiambo was R3, not R1)

      Looks pretty athletic to me:

      • Kenny Sloth

        I like Mason Cole’s versatility, but I’m unsure of his best got at the next level.

        • Kenny Sloth


  38. Hawkfaninmt

    Couple of FA tidbits I came across…

    Kenny Stills is expected to get 12M per year on the market (Rotoworld). Holy crap! I was hoping the Hawks could sneak away from FA without robert Woods for 4.5-5M. Not that it was likely, but that’s not happening if Stills is commanding 12M!

    Jonathan banks of the Bears/Lions/Bucs. Seems to have the length and size the Hawks desire, and should come cheap. Another name to add to the competition with Seisay, SJB, etc

  39. Ed

    I would say hold pat on a high draft pick on the OL. Chemistry is a big part of a good OL. They have had quarters and games where they were good, it all ties in with the play calling and RB hitting correct hole. Outside of getting a FA OT to compete and maybe moving Ifedi to RT and Obi to RG:


    How about trading a 3rd for Sheldon Richardson, maybe this team will light a fire under his drawers. Extend his contract and he would be a nice inside disruptor, especially when Bennett and Avril become less disruptive.

    • Kenny Sloth

      That’s what I’m saying, they’ve shown the ability to be good, why blow it all up again?

  40. nichansen01

    How about Jaleel Johnson as an interior rush presence? If he’s there at the end of the third, do we pull the trigger?

    • lil'stink

      Johnson was clocked at 19 mph in the Senior Bowl! As much as I like him I don’t think we go DT early this year. I see us giving Q-Jeff another shot as being an interior pass rusher, and we fill in some gaps like we always seem to have luck doing at DT by getting some cheap vets on one year deals.

      I think Johnson could be an every down DT in our system, though. I think if any other team sees him that way he’s probably gone before we pick at #90.

      • Volume12

        I just think its not a great year for DTs. Bunch of run stuffers, very few true collapse the pocket types. That and the fact this EDGE class is loaded will push quite a few of these guys down the board.

        Very few teams will take 2 down DTs early.

        • Kenny Sloth

          It’s not a good year for DTs is it?

          I have thought it would push mediocre guys up the board.

          I don’t think Jaleel Johnson is mediocre at all.

          I was barely even watching the Wisconsin game live when he just destroyed an entire drive for the Badgers. Johnson might be average at the next level though

          • Volume12

            No, I don’t think Johnson is mediocre at all either. I’m a huge fan of his game.

            That’s alright if he’s average at the next level depending on what round he goes. That’s exactly what the majority of these guys will be. Its why finding unique personalities and 1-2 things that a player does really well are so important.

    • Kenny Sloth

      If he’s there at the end of the third, something is wrong with him and we need to steer clear. The late second would be a small fall for him

      • lil'stink

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gone well before we pick in the 2nd. But you never know. The draft can be funny that way. Maybe there’s a huge run on CB’s and edge guys and he falls a little.

        I love this play where he just dispatches the guard with one arm and then does a Superman impersonation to get to the QB.

  41. Clayton

    BB clone.

    • nichansen01

      I am liking what I am seeing here. Thanks for sharing this. I would take him in the third.

    • Hawktalker


      That guys has monster length. Although doesn’t look too ball-hawky, looks pretty sticky in coverage and swats and recovers to break up a lot of plays..

      But holy cow is he great in run support. He hits like a Sledge-hammer/Seahawk and appears to have linebacker instincts getting to the runner and taking great angles.

  42. Hawks22Fun

    On a side note, would anyone trade a 3rd for Sheldon Richardson?

    He has one year left at only $8 million….
    If we didn’t extend him, we could franchise him for a second year…

    If he isn’t extended, we let him go in FA, and get back the 3rd Round pick we used on him…

    Would anyone risk a 3rd on Sheldon for 2 years?? Maybe longer…

    Only to get a 3rd back? Wouldn’t our D-Line be tough with him!!??

    Any takers?

    • nichansen01

      I would .

    • Ed

      I made the same statement a few posts back. I would and extend him and he could provide some help as Bennett and Avril get older.

    • RWIII

      If you can get Richardson to sign a Michael Bennett long-term type deal then I maybe I am all in? But I don’t think Richardson is interested in Michael Bennett type money. BTW: Richardson only had 1.5 sacks last year. In 4 years Richardson only has 18 career sacks. BTW : There is no doubt that Michael Bennett is the most underpaid player in the NFL. Hands down.

  43. nichansen01

    How about trading down into the second, picking up a late third comp pick (yes another one) and using that to then move up in the second. Use your first second round pick on Baker and use the second on King.

    Then you finally have the long term answer at right corner and a nickleback who can also fill in if Thomas and be his long term replacement down the line.

    Then get a linebacker like Anzalone, Bowser Beckwith at the end of the third, along with an o-line guy or two(bisnowaty, wheeler, banner, dawkins, asiata, mama, gennessy) and maybe a defensive tackle (Tomlinson, vanderdoes, Jones, Johnson… etc)

  44. Volume12

    This FA class is gonna be garbage isn’t it?

    • Volume12

      Speaking of, I kinda like the possible addition of RB Latavius Murray.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Some players will find great situations, but yeah outside of QB’s it’s an uninteresting group

        You don’t think he’ll get resigned??

        • Volume12

          I mean its certainly possible, but from what I just heard Oakland is gonna let him hit FA with ‘the door open’ for a possible return. According to Ed Werder.

          • Kenny Sloth

            Hah, not all that likely then. I wouldn’t mind him on a prove it deal

            McCaffrey might be great for the Raiders

      • Smitty1547

        So do i, really not sure why Oakland would let him go.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Alston Jeffrey isn’t getting tagged~~~

      • Volume12

        Nope. Kawann Short is. Eric Berry is expected too. Looks like KC picked him over Dontari Poe. Along with Chandler Jones.

        • vrtkolman

          I really hope Calais Campbell leaves the division. I don’t think there is much of a shot of Seattle signing him.

          • Smitty1547

            I’m just glad they are picking Jones to franchise over Campbell, i fear playing Campbell twice a year much more.

            • vrtkolman

              I actually agree with you. I’d be very hesitant in investing big money into Jones as well. He’s the guy that OD’d on synthetic marijuana right before New England’s first playoff game in 2015.

    • Rob Staton


  45. Ed

    With what the Jets are doing, I could easily see both Bolles and Ram gone by 8th pick, maybe pushing Robinson/Lamp/Feeney up the boards and have more players available for Hawks. Add to the fact if Trubisky/Mahomes go earlier than expected (49rs/Cardinals), maybe Browns/Bears/Jets try to trade up for Kizer/Watson.

    1 Browns (Garrett)
    2 49ers (Trubisky)
    3 Bears (Allen)
    4 Jaguars (Fournette)
    5 Titans (Adams)
    6 Jets (Bolles)
    7 Chargers (Robinson)
    8 Panthers (Ramczyk)
    9 Bengals (Foster)
    10 Bills (Lattimore)

  46. nichansen01

    If Murray leaves (maybe to Seattle!) could Alvin Kamara or Christian McCaffery become targets for Oakland? That way, a good linebacker or corner would likely get pushed down a bit (Davis, Reddick, White all candidates for Oakland).

  47. Hawks425

    Breon Borders out of Duke seems like I Seahawk corner, aggressive, big, physical with ball skills. Lacks some speed/ technique. Is he late round prospect?

  48. LeoSharp

    Anyone seen the Hawks practice video? Makes it really seem like any prospect with an iffy motor is unlikely to fit into the Seahawks culture.

    • bankhawk

      Interesting! Maybe sheds some light on Sherman Smiths retirement?

  49. BobbyK

    For the sake of throwing it out there:

    Sheldon Richardson for our 2nd round pick?

    Richardson would be a 1-year stud DT making a little over $8 million. He’s a stud three-tech like Carroll wants in a run stuffer, yet studly enough to bring fantastic interior pressure. Playing on the last year of his deal, you know he’s going 100% all year.

    After having a great year in helping us win the Super Bowl next year – then he signs one of the biggest FA contracts in the NFL. He’s a 1-year rental which means he’ll net the Seahawks a third round pick in the 2019 draft.

    So, the question is this:

    Do you want a second round pick in 2017?

    Or would you rather have a third round pick in 2019 with an elite one-year rental DT for the 2017 season?

    On the surface, I think it’s stupid to trade picks for well paid veterans, but in this scenario I think I’d take the stud DT for one year and third round pick over the second round pick. This is especially true given the Seahawks current cap situation. They can actually afford him (and then some) financially.

    • Rob Staton

      I loved Richardson at Missouri but wouldn’t make that deal.

      For starters, you’d want to see how he settles into the team and if he can stay out of any bother before you give him a long contract extension. And yet if you don’t immediately give him the extension — you face the risk next year of having to franchise him or spending a R2 pick on a one year rental.

      A DT franchise tag in 2017 was $14.7m. I wouldn’t want to be faced with a choice of paying him that or letting him walk in a year, having already spent a R2 pick. And I wouldn’t want to give him $10-12m a year right off the bat after the trade.

      And if he gets into trouble, he won’t get the big contract to net you the R3 comp pick in 2019.

    • vrtkolman

      The fact that he is on the last year of his rookie deal makes this very appealing. There is no way I would invest a big money, 4-5 year contract on him. I would bet that he stays clean and motivated this year looking to get that $15 million+ per year contract, and would equally bet that he falls apart soon after.

      • BobbyK

        Yep. Even most morons give it their all in contract years then pretty much go downhill after signing their fat deal that some desperate team gives them because some GM knows he has to win now or lose his job. He’d be great in 2017 when we’d need him and sign for big bucks and get us a good pick… then we don’t care if he isn’t great anymore. Seems like a win-win. If he gets hurts, I guess that like saying our second round pick couldn’t get hurt either.

  50. Hughz

    Just saw Revis was released. Any thoughts on grabbing him on a one year deal?

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