Instant reaction: Seahawks lose in horrible fashion

It feels like we’ve gone back in time. Atlanta game? New Orleans game?

A squandered opportunity. And thus, the Seahawks are regressing back into the pack.

A season that promised much — and flirted with being magical — has slumped back into something a lot less appetising. Losses to a clearly not-right Tampa Bay team — and now a Raiders team that was 3-7 coming into the day — have put the Seahawks in a much less exciting position.

They’re 6-5, a game-and-a-half behind the 49ers for the NFC West lead and while their schedule isn’t unfavourable over the next few weeks — they’ve blown too many winnable games to feel anything is brewing in 2022.

Seattle’s defense found its groove a few weeks ago. They were creating sacks and were complementing the offense nicely. Things were clicking.

Sadly, they have gone back to what we were seeing at the start of the season.

A total and utter shambolic disaster.

The warning signs were there against Tampa Bay in Munich. An inability to defend the run or create any pressure against Tom Brady was the catalyst in a fairly comfortable Buccaneers win.

Here, if it wasn’t for some especially generous Raiders turnovers and decision making, it’s hard to know if the Seahawks would’ve stopped anything. Derek Carr threw two picks, Josh McDaniels tried to get six inches by putting the football five yards behind the LOS and preferred to kick for goal on another fourth down when Seattle couldn’t do anything against the interior run.

Seattle’s defense was like a hot knife through butter. Carr had all day to throw. I can’t recall one win off the edge in four quarters of football. Is the scheme even letting the pass rushers attack? Or are they being used as extra linebackers with too many other responsibilities, never able to just come screaming off the edge? They had no answer to the running game — punctuated by an 86-yard touchdown to lose in overtime which was frankly embarrassing.

I feel we’re back to asking questions of the staff and the players. What’s going on with the scheme? Are they just not good enough in terms of personnel?

The talent question, to me, feels like a cop out. You don’t need Aaron Donald to not be horrendous. It’s possible to scheme up ways to stymy opponents — even if the results end up being mixed. There was nothing mixed here. It was consistently rubbish.

With two weeks of preparation how can the defense go back to its worst? I’m not a X’s and O’s expert at all — but it seemed like nobody could get off a block, there was no gap control up front and with no pressure being created — a safety valve (or worse) would always uncover for Carr. Meanwhile, you give up 7.1 yards a carry in the running game.

Sure, an injection of talent — hopefully coming in the off-season — will help the defense. We need to see a better job next week though, especially against a banged up Rams offense. They’ve got to get back to doing the basics well — essentially defending the run and finding a way to create some pressure.

Or do we need to see it? Are we back, now, to accepting what this season is and looking to the future? Thinking about draft position? Because you’re not winning anything of note playing like this.

Seattle’s identity is predicated on good defense and running the ball. As the defense has gone to pot, so has the running game. They’re not creating any push up front, no holes. They had to abandon it today. They had three yards a carry — and that’s only thanks to Geno Smith’s 22 scrambling yards.

As with the defense — they’ve got to find a way to get that going again otherwise they can’t play Pete Carroll football.

My fear is that while all of this is going on — it puts tremendous pressure on Geno Smith. He had one interception today but it could’ve been more. He had a fumble on a botched exchange. Maxx Crosby was teeing off in the second half and why not when you don’t have to worry about the run?

We don’t want to get into a situation where it’s all on Smith to carry the team and we saw today, I think, that he’s not always going to be able to do it.

This was another game where the offense scored 34 points and it wasn’t enough to win, at home, against a 3-7 team. That’s sad.

The silver lining is this loss helps Seattle’s draft position, relating to the Broncos. Because Denver lost to Carolina, the Raiders winning means the Seahawks now own the #4 pick instead of #5. It’s nice to have that as a bonus — but a win would’ve been better, to keep the feeling alive that this could be a year with some legit January excitement.

Instead, increasingly, we’re getting to the point where the off-season rather than the post-season is going to be the thing to look forward to.


  1. Don

    Maybe you’re overthinking and getting too anxious. Maybe it’s as simple as not being able to beat pirates. Don’t worry. We’ll be back to normal next week.

    • Rob Staton

      Maybe you could address the points raised rather than accusing people of overreacting. It’s lame.

      • Don

        Sorry, Rob. I was attempting sarcasm. 😅😉🤣
        It has been a frustrating couple of weeks.

        • Tyler Jorgensen

          As a guy who works EST remote WFH while living in Washington state, I can say I don’t always catch jokes at 4am our time that I would during the day.

          Last couple games have been big bummers, but the pirate comment was a solid pun-ish one liner.

          • Don

            (In Elvis voice): well, thank you very much.

            In hindsight, I should’ve just said, “maybe we simply can’t beat pirates” rather than start with the direct “you’re this, you’re that” bit which was easily taken wrong and would put someone on the defensive.

            • Tyler Jorgensen

              On this I would certainly agree.

  2. Big Mike

    Everything you said is true Rob, but with the officials doing their job properly and without New York steering the game, the Hawks still win.

    • dand393

      So is it the refs fault they turned it over 2 times or the refs fault they let Jacobs go 86 yards on the final play I mean there’s a lot more to blame here then the refs

      • Roy Batty

        Yeah, I don’t buy that either.

        The refs didn’t prevent the front 7 from getting to Carr.

        This was a shootout, no matter the refs flubs. Seattle can’t win a shootout with their current defense providing no pressure on the QB. It’s impossible.

        • Big Mike

          Not making excuses. There aren’t any. OTOH, if both of those calls are made correctly, Seahawks very likely win, especially the fumble that wasn’t.

  3. NYCHawk

    Just an absolutely embarrassment across the board (trenches especially).

    – Complete dismantling of the run game with no push on the line.
    – Geno making terrible decisions giving the ball away twice (should’ve had a third pick).
    – Run defense putting up less effort than wet toilet paper, not to mention the absolutely terrible coverage by our linebackers this game.

    Just when you think you might be close to competing, the Hawks throw a game like this in the mix to make sure you know they’re not.

    Good teams beat bad teams, and make no mistake the Raiders are really bad.

    Hope they take a hard look in the mirror after this one.

    • Tommy Boy

      I had a feeling at 27-27 that Pete would at some juncture show his ultra conservatism and also be a culprit in the defeat.

      Does PC know that OT is only 10 minutes long? If you get the ball near mid field with 5+ minutes left and your D can’t stop anybody, this is when the game is now 4 down territory. Said it then, say it now.

      When your O is your strong suit, play that to win. I laughed when Pete decides to Punt the ball with 4:30 minutes left in OT and it’s only 4th and 5. If you can’t draw up a play on 3rd or 4th and make 5 yards then you deserve to lose.

      When you decide to Punt with 4:30 left in O.T. you deserve to lose. What did Pete think was going to happen? It’s like he was settling for a TIE at BEST. If Jacobs didn’t bust for 86 yards, c’mon, the Raiders would’ve matriculated the ball down the field, burned the final 4:30 of clock and kicked the game winning FG.

      Did anyone really believe when Ultra Conservative Pete decided to Punt that we had ANY chance of winning this game. I laughed! and said, that’s a L . Way to go Pete.

      Oh and did you notice that BOTH the Jags and Chargers went for the win down by 1 with :18 seconds left and both made the 2 pt conversion. Do you think Ultra Pete would ever do that? Of course not, he’s kicking the PAT and playing for a tie in O.T.

      Whenever we’re in a tight game, I can’t help but know that PETE will botch it with conservatism. It’s his nature and he’s way toooo old to change his philosophy know. Still have hope.

  4. Robert Las Vegas

    Brutal loss the raiders ran the ball down the down the Seahawks throats. Abe might have nightmares about maxx Crosby.

    • Troy

      2 weeks in a row where the run defense was a wet paper bag. Hard to watch.

      • 12th chuck

        Two weeks? It’s been like 3 years, hasn’t it?

  5. NC Al

    10 year lurker here. Defense stunk today, but what about two clear officiating errors? Can’t leave it up to the refs, but they were egregious and backbreaking. Game should have never went to OT.

    • Don

      The non-fumble was a bad call and costly. The incompletion was simply that, an incompletion. It wasn’t a matter of the ball hitting the ground first, it was a matter of him bobbling it while he was going out of bounds. He simply did not have control of the ball. I saw that on the first replay and predicted it would be that that would overturn the call.

  6. 12th chuck

    “hey Pete, we are a terrible 4-3 defense, what are we going to do?” answer, be terrible at 3-4 hybrid as well. Lack of pass rush cost another game AGAIN. The seahawks are who we thought they were,

  7. L80

    Teams are going to look at the tape and just run, and play action this team to death.

    The deficiencies are clear. D-line (or scheme/execution) is atrocious. Guard play on the o-line was also dreadful. Dreams for this year just ended for me.

  8. SoCal12

    Honestly the good thing about having low expectations for the season is that we are already past the point of my expectations. Didn’t really feel any sense of disappointment after this loss and it was kind of nice.

    The thought of a playoff run was nice and fanciful, but this is the reality of our team. We just aren’t quite at the contender level. Gonna spend the rest of the week looking fondly at that number 3 pick. Anderson/Carter cant come soon enough.

    • Roy Batty

      And that is why I am not fuming after a close loss as I usually would be.

      I’m happy that they’ve shown serious chops on offense. I’m bummed they still suck on defense. However, I’m stoked that they will be picking in the top five and have a chance at a true top 5 talent. Then you throw in the native pick possibly in the late teens. A lot of defensive help can be drafted, if they do it right.

      As much fun as this unexpected season has been, the anticipation of the combine, then the draft, is already off the charts for me.

      I’m still going to be rooting for them to win, but I’m not going to be devastated if they lose a few more, either.

  9. Henry Taylor

    More than anything this game proves that Seattle needs a better pass rush, it can’t keep being this way.

    Pretty annoying too that the Raiders, who haven’t stopped the run all year, absolutely shut it down today.

    Refs were the third most annoying thing today.

    • Peter

      Pass rush.

      Interior dline.

      Interior oline that can force their will.

  10. Tony

    Too many mistakes. Geno with an endzone pick and the fumble in fg range. No creativity in getting walker going. Especially deflating when hearing how bad raiders line has been.

    But defense was absolute trash. Jacob’s was having his way. No pressure. The ball bounced there way a couple times.

    Yet after all that, Seattle had every right to still win it. Huge let down game. Margin for error is 0 now.

  11. Micah

    Small balls Pete lost that for us at the end. He will always bet on his defense, but was unwilling to go for 4th and 5 at midfield. I have to think win probability favoured going for it.

    • Todd M

      ^This. Geno made a few mistakes (though I still think he was good overall) and the defense sucked, but this was football suicide. We were in RAIDERS territory with about 5 minutes left in OT and we only needed a FG to win. We put up 34 points in that game and it could have been a lot more without red zone issues. Our defense was gassed and getting gashed. That was an indefensible decision in my view.

  12. Donald_Duck

    As Rob has often said, we need help in the trenches!

    • Seattle Person

      The last few games — Austin Blythe’s inability to push DTs in the run game is rearing its ugly head. They went against Vita Vea and against Andrew Billings the last 2 games. They are both north of 330 or 340 LBs.

      I think it’s time to consider more upside Centers that can help push the pile more. Coming out the draft with DL and a Center would be huge in the first couple of rounds.

      • bmseattle

        I agree about the Center position.
        It’s difficult to be a “bully” in the run game, when your center is getting pushed 2 yards into the backfield.

      • 509 Chris

        I agree with this. I’ve heard a lot about the Rams scheme and using smaller agile centers but I think we need a bigger brawler in the middle. There’s a few options in the draft this year so I think now is the time for this team to finally replace max Unger.

  13. RIP Sonics

    For me, one of the biggest needs is an impact free safety.. outside of the interceptions Diggs is clearly a liability in coverage and the run game. Too many times he is content to watch run plays develop before actually attacking and getting caught ball watching in coverage. He just isnt fast enough to impact games that way. He also just appears timid making tackles trying to make glancing blows instead of wrapping up and driving. Im at the point I would rather see how the defense looks with joey blount… At least he would play hard at the point of attack and we could get a clear idea of whether retaining diggs is necessary next year. That position is vital for this defense to function especially with poor pass rush. Too many missed clean up opportunities by the safeties today. Hopefully there are some guys available draft or otherwise that could develop in this young secondary.

  14. Olyhawksfan

    The lack of pass rush is inexcusable. Two games in a row with nothing. Absolutely nothing. Punch Derek Carr in the face a couple times to stop a drive and it might be a different ball game.

  15. Hawkdawg

    What really stood out to me while at the game today is the way Austin Blythe was getting blown up at the point. No anchor when engaged and when not engaged it was often because he was whiffing. There can’t be a run game when the center of your line can’t at least play to a draw. Painful to watch.

    • Peter

      No worries. The “system,” will be just fine. Just because dlinemen are getting ridiculously explosive it’s all good with smaller centers that are technicians instead of maulers.

      • Big Mike

        Don’t forget barely NFL level LBs.

        • Peter

          When both can go and you wouldn’t notice that’s a huge problem.

  16. Peter

    I know it’s cool to get the #4 pick in the draft. No love for Seattle doing their best to drive down that second first rounder? From the 20’s a few weeks ago to #16 as of today.

    Gets them striking distance of another great defender.

    Good grief. The raiders.

    With the way the defense payed today which is exactly what I didn’t want to see looming games against:

    The niners…yikes
    The jets….also could be a yikes game
    The chiefs….see above

    Rams…..who knows they always have our number.

    This is the same old crap for years. A good offense let down by a middling defense. The names and players change but the outcome stays the same.

  17. Trevor

    The Hawks have been soft in the middle of both the OL and DL for years now. Would love to see them address that in this draft with a big dominant NT and C in Rd 2

    Siaki Ika and John Michael Schmitz would be ideal 2nd round picks to add size and toughness to the middle of both the OL / DL. If the Hawks want to stop the run defense and run the ball on offense these two guys would be a great start.

  18. Hawks

    Here’s hoping Schneider is sick of watching Seattle not control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

    Is Brooks really a 2 down LB? Maybe I’m just too hard on him and expect too much.

    At least there appears to be some 5 tech DE run specialists and nose guards available after the first round this year.

  19. GoHawks5151

    Man am I glad I went to the gym before OT. Y’all seem upset. 😉 Jk. I find my reaction in the “meh” category. These guys have inspired us to peak ahead and wonder. My personal way to watch this season remains unchanged. Enjoy the highs, review my expectations during the lows. The young ones are still gaining experience (sometimes harshly, Abe). Some of the guys we will need are still producing, while others are making it obvious they shouldn’t retained. All the picks mean everything and are already coming out ahead thanks to Russ. This doesn’t dismiss the teams issues, it’s just how I view the loss

  20. RIP Sonics

    Ika is a beast. I would love it if they added him

  21. no frickin clue

    This latest two-game turn makes me wonder if opposing offenses have figured something out about our run defense tendencies and are exploiting it. Coaching requires adjustments, right? Pete and Clint figured out what wasn’t working early in the season, and all of a sudden the defense improved. Well, opposing offenses can watch film too.

    I’m not enough of an X’s and O’s guy to know what is being exploited, but if at some point midway through the season, Pete and Clint said to themselves “There – we fixed it”, maybe that was premature.

    • Seattle Person

      Yup. Teams are also taking advantage of the cover 6 tendencies the Hawks use. That’s how Hollins ran free for TD during the flee-flicker.

    • Malc from PO

      That’s why I love the NFL – it’s a coaches’ game. You can’t just put out the best athletes and let them go to work, it’s all down to scheme and matchups. There’s no question in my mind that teams have figured out some of our vulnerabilities in the run game and against the run, and we’re sunk if we don’t figure out something different. One of the criticisms of the Seahawks in recent years has been that they are very slow to make adjustments within games and even as the season goes along; Pete has a great deal of faith that his system will prevail in the end if the players stick to it. We’ll see.

  22. Mark

    I’m kind of over the experiment at nickel with Coby Bryant, he is the Barton/Brooks of CB. I don’t recall any pass break ups, it always seems he allows a catch to convert a first down and then makes the tackle. I think another CB is needed, to pair Tariq with Christian Gonzales and find a nickel CB that actually can trail and contest catches.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Jackson can’t seem to get a hand on the ball either.

      • Roy Batty

        Those 10-12 yard cushions he was giving up were brutal.

    • Zach

      I agree that he has a lot of plays where he’s close but can’t really make the play, outside of the forced fumbles. I’m not sure if that’s just because he simply isn’t quite a good enough athlete (which was kinda the read on him coming out of Cincinnati) or if he’s still just trying to figure things out at the NFL level. I wouldn’t give up on him but I do think that he has been a weak point in coverage.

    • Big Mike

      I just wish they would play him at his natural position of corner rather than nickel. That maybe would get a feel for how good he actually is.

      • Seattle Person

        Yeah…I just don’t think he has the quickness and suddenness inside. I think he’ll be much better knowing he can shade one side or the other.

  23. Tezza

    We are not winning the SB so might as well not make playoffs and get 2 picks inside top 15 maybe Denver pick is high as top 2. We probably trade down from top 3 get extra pick next season.

    • Roy Batty

      There is no way I would trade out of the top 3.

      Guaranteeing a possible franchise QB or game-wrecking DT is not something you throw away for an extra pick in 2024. The only way I see any trade happening is if the team picking right after us doesn’t want to gamble on Seattle taking their QB prospect and gives up the farm to trade up. And it would have to be a prospect the Hawks aren’t as keen on.

      • Chad Louis Schobert

        If there is a team willing to trade up like the Niners did for Lance and offer multiple first rounders to pick second, I think they have to do that. Miami has done really well with that return.

        Though agree that they shouldn’t drop back unless it is an absolute haul.

  24. AlaskaHawk

    I know everyone wants a better defense. In my estimation that would involve more players than the line, though that line needs a lot of help.

    I would like a big nose tackle that can pair up with Woods and Ford.
    Two defensive ends – or are we calling them outside linebackers now?
    A big linebacker or two more.
    Two safeties.
    And probably one corner.

    That’s a whole draft in itself.

    Offensively, keep rebuilding the interior line and look for another wide receiver. I like Geno Smith but am not against finding a top quarterback in the draft. Just not sure when that will happen. I doubt any quarterback will do better without improvements in the offensive line.

    Unfortunately with draft fails being over 50% (for all teams) this amounts to two more years.

  25. Zach

    I don’t feel great about writing this, but – did we jump the gun on the Kenneth Walker victory lap? No doubt he’s capable of breathtaking runs, and maybe the struggles to get the run game going are on the o-line, but my god that 13 yard loss was just brutal, even if they were able to overcome it. At the least, I’m inclined to agree that we need to add another running back in the draft in 2023 to give us more options.

    • Tien

      Maybe I’ll see it differently if shown the replay but my recollection of that play was that as soon as Walker got the ball, there was a DL in his face and he twisted to avoid the tackle then ran parallel and maybe a bit backwards to try to make something out of nothing. I’m inclined to not blame him for that 13 yd loss. Walker does have a tendency to dance around a bit rather just hitting it forward once he gets the ball but I think that if he got more holes yesterday, his day would have looked better.

  26. Chris

    Bashing our db’s seems kinda harsh considering they have to cover way longer than they are supposed to.

    • Peter


      Commenter bummed about Bryant at nickel….he’s not a nickel corner. He was a very, very good corner who was overshadowed by sauce Gardner.

      No pass rush = rough day at work for the corners.

      Move Bryant outside.

  27. KennyBadger

    Yes the team is exceeding expectations but you want to be able to trust that those in control are the right ones to lead moving forward. Pete is a defensive coach so I get more pissed when that side of the ball is ineffectual. The unwillingness to help on the right side of the OL also grinds my gears. The last draft was reassuring from a talent evaluation standpoint but games like today worry me about tactics. Fun game, still a fun season- perhaps todays events will be more beneficial in the long run.

    • Rob Staton

      Yes the team is exceeding expectations but you want to be able to trust that those in control are the right ones to lead moving forward. Pete is a defensive coach so I get more pissed when that side of the ball is ineffectual.

      100% this

      I don’t mind losing in year one of a rebuild

      But you’ve got to see light at the end of the tunnel — not giving up 600 yards to a 3-7 team including nearly 300 rushing yards

      That shouldn’t happen — rebuild or not. And it makes you worry about the scheme and the people orchestrating the defense because you don’t get to upgrade those guys in a draft

      • Tyler Jorgensen


        And looking back at the past, we’ve poured SO MANY resources into the defense both in regard to picks, trades, and salary, over the past half decade, for this to continually and consistently be such a problem.

        And now I hear, “If we just use our four early picks on the defense, we can fix it.”

        Can we? How many resources toward the defense is too much? We’ve spent plenty of 1st and 2nd and 3rd rounders on the DL and LB’s with little success. How will four more high picks toward the D fix anything, and why assume they will?!?

        And all that while the interior OL slides further? While we still have a middling QB who vibes like the best case is a Andy Dalton-esque ceiling of a 2nd tier solid player with all too frequent headscratching mistakes, and exactly how tasty will that look at 20-40 million a year over 2-3 years as opposed to 5 million a year for a single season?

  28. neil

    Carroll’s assessment of the situation is ” We have to get better on 3rd down on both sides of the ball “. If I could ask him a question it would be, what are your’ plans to fix it ? Sadly, under PC players are rarely if ever benched for under performance.

  29. Ryan Purcell

    Tight game. Could have gone either way. Raiders are not as bad as their record. Should we be talking about drafting a Center? Blythe is not strong enough.

    • Rob Staton

      They gave up 600 yards

      300 yards rushing

      • RugbyLock

        Gave up 161 yards rushing to TB and now 283 to LV… Wow… 444 yards of rushing were allowed in the last two games combined…

      • Ryan purcell

        I thought Mone and Collier might be the difference in our run defence. Sadly I was wrong! And the scheme seemed fairly vanilla. Did we blitz at all? Stunt? I guess if you can’t get the basics right you can’t get too exotic. Still, the game was there to be won.

  30. JeffHawks in Colorado

    Can we be real for a moment? Regardless of our state in denial this is a rebuilding year. It has actually been rebuilding five years. Seattle play just well enough to get into the first round of the playoffs and screw their first round draft pick for quite some time. We have some very good young talent right now from last year‘s draft that can be built upon with this year‘s great future draft picks. There are 32 teams in the NFL and each week 16 of them are going to lose. With the exception of a handful of teams everyone is having somewhat of a mediocre season. That’s the way it goes in equal and fair competition. Love your team for how they play each week and continue to hope that you get a few lucky players each year that make the difference to take you to the level of Philadelphia or Kansas City. They too, one day, will have a losing season. Having been a Seahawks fan since their creation 46 years ago, I remember a lot of seasons we weren’t as competitive as this last decade. For one, I’m just happy to be competitive, and the nitpicking can be left to every other team with a losing record. We’re still above .500, and that’s better than most. I’m proud of the blue and green. We are going to continue to be better.

    • Rob Staton

      Who’s in denial?

      My podcast is literally called ‘The Rebuild’

  31. Roger Davis

    To me these two losses have sealed the deal. At the start of the season we stunk – then – miracles and flash bangs – and now we stink again.

    NO PROBLEM! Our job now is to pray to every god we ever heard of that Russ keeps coming up snake eyes AND we can do our bit to help the Broncos by getting beat by the Rams! I want Denver’s pick ahead of the Rams. I would be shocked, shocked I say if we lost to the Rams… but inside I’d be high fiving.

    Our job Mission Impossible is now to do everything we can to see the Bronco’s get the highest pick possible.

    I’m gonna get yelled at – bring it on!

  32. Sam

    Heard the pod and you brought up the defensive scheme being a issue for generating a pass rush. I wonder if going back to 4-3 and replicating Niners defense with infusion of talent coming in the draft would be a better idea. The Niners have been generating consistent pass rush without their premium players except Nick bosa. I agree Pete is running this hybrid thing which doesn’t seem sound for Run defense

    • Rob Staton

      It sounds great to me

      But you’ve just appointed two guys to run Fangio’s scheme

      So what do we do with them?

      • Sam

        Are we really running Fangio defense though? Feels like they have fallen back to beat fronts from last year. I believe the new guys they added were to help with zone match coverage schemes in the back. Nothing to do with the front. Niners run all kinds of coverages but they have A+ coaching on the D line.

      • Elmer

        To what extent has going from a 4-3 configuration to more of a 3-4 configuration sacrificed run defense.

        Or has the defensive coaching staff failed to create a scheme that best takes advantage of the players’ abilities.

        Or is it primarily a lack of talent. To paraphrase Chuck Knox; “football players make football plays”.

  33. Mel

    Honestly, I’m okay with these kinds of losses. The team isn’t completely inept, we know our weaknesses and holes (hypothetically) and we improve draft positioning. This team isn’t good enough to make a serious run at a championship this year. I don’t care how good Geno’s looked. Let this year set the table for the next 5. Identify who should stay long term and get quite a bit cheaper as we decide who we need to bring in.

    • Rob Staton

      But it’s not just about who you bring in

      This defensive scheme is a massive concern — and whether we’re in another ‘too many cooks’ situation with it and how you fix this because it goes beyond just adding a couple of decent rookies

  34. cha

    I’m reminded of what Jake Heaps reported that it took to bring Sean Desai in.

    “No. 1, the autonomy in which the game plans and the overall coaching structure would work,” Heaps said. “… Sean Desai wanted to not just be a member of the staff but to have a say and to have a clear working relationship in terms of putting together game plans, how all that’s going to come together. He got the assurances he needed on that end. Very big.”

    The second assurance? Personnel.

    “It’s one thing to be on a coaching staff; it’s another thing to be a part of a group that has pieces to work with. I believe they have that already now, good pieces, but they need to add more impact and that is very clear,” Heaps said. “And what I was told is that Pete Carroll sold a very strong and compelling argument that that was going to be the case, that they would be aggressive in their approach from a defensive schematic perspective and also work very hard to get the pieces that they need in the offseason to upgrade this roster.”

    I think if this is true, the Seahawks have a real mess on their hands.

    It sure would sound like PC sold Desai a bill of goods to get him on the staff and then has been running the defense out of his own office.

    • Rob Staton

      It might be best to just put this down to a bad decision and for everyone to part ways

      My concern is that would then just leave Clint Hurtt running Pete’s defense and we’ve seen that before — it’s called the defense 2018-2021. Or they bin off Hurtt too but then what? Who is coming to coach Pete’s defense knowing the last guy got a year?

      It is a mess. Too many cooks again, nobody seems to know what they’re doing and the results are an embarrassment when they play like this

      • cha

        How many coordinators is that now?

        Reminds me of that saying ‘if everywhere you go you smell manure, you better check your shoes.’

        • Big Mike

          “Defensive coach”??

        • Tyler Jorgensen

          I think it’s very much worth looking at the evolution of the coaching staff, and how the de-evolution of the coaching staff coincides with diminished returns. To me this is one of the most underrated aspects of evaluating Pete Carroll’s time here and the overall direction of the franchise.

          There’s a longer story to be told tied with consistency of the defense, brightness and talent of the coaching staff, and importantly but also nebulous, the evolution of the NFL in general and how rules changed, and offensive coordinator familiarity with the system better allowed them to attack it.

          Here are the players:

          2010-Gus Bradley
          Dan Quinn, KNJ, Kris Richard. Rocky Seto on staff.
          Solid young staff, with lots of talent and up can coming coaching.

          2011 – Gus Bradley.
          Dan Quinn left for Florida. Todd Wash was DL coach. He’s in Detroit now and has had a relatively successful career post Seattle, no downtime, and was Jax DC when they had that little run that included a playoff appearance. In other words, there was a lot of talent on the staff>

          2012 – Same staff. Perhaps not a coincidence aligns with our rise.

          2013 – Big changes for the first time. Bradley left for Jacksonville, Todd Wash left with him. The fantastic Dan Quinn back to lead the Defense (a win) and Travis Jones for Wash.

          2014 – Robert Saleh left to join Bradley as LB coach at Jacksonville. (What if KNJ left instead, and Saleh got promoted? But then, it would have been a lateral move for KNJ, so no go. But that could have led to Saleh getting promoted when Quinn left, instead of Richard, and quite a domino effect could have happened.

          2015 – This is when things deteriorated both on and off the field.
          Quinn left for Atlanta. Kris Richard in (perhaps too soon.) KNJ left. Rocky Seto left for a higher calling. Michael Barrow to LB’s (who?) I don’t recall him, but he was “Assistant Head Coach” in 2017 for Seattle. Apparently like Rocky Seto, he eventually left coaching for a higher faith calling.

          2015’s staff lacks the star power of earlier staffs. Richard may have been promoted too soon, and the brain drain was substantial losing long time stalwarts Seto and KNJ as well as Quinn. That’s a big turnover.

          Coincidentally, the offensive staff (that bears its own closer look sometime) looks very ordinary at this time. Lots of ties to Carroll (including two sons!), and not much success outside Seattle.

          2016 – mostly the same staff. Hurtt was brought in from Chicago as a depth move assistant coach. even though we had both a DL coach (Jones) a DL Assistant (Dwaine Board).

          2017 – Kris Richard still DC. Clint Hurtt replaced Travis Jones as the DL coach. Jones became a “Senior Defensive Assistant.” Andre Curtis at DB’s. Tom Donatell (Ed Donatell’s son. Like it or not, Pete has plenty of nepotism in his hiring history) came in for quality control. Strangely, I can find no specific Linebacker coach at all, only an assistant LB coach (John Glenn) who has since been promoted to LB coach and has been in the position since 2019 during our…. linebacker heyday? Former player Nick Sorenson was brought on as a DB assistant.


          2018 – Big changes, but probably the least regarded staff yet. Now “failed at Oakland” KNJ to DC. Andre Curtis to DB’s/Passing Game Coordinator. The uninspiring Jethro Franklin to help Hurtt on the DL. Donatell QC/Defense, John Glenn (helping KNJ, I guess) as Asst. LB coach.

          At this point we have a mediocre older traditionalist at DC, Hurtt excepted nobody considered a fast track for upward promotion, and several coaches that since have gone on to lower tier jobs at other places. Pretty close to rock bottom with regard to talent and brain drain in full effect.

          2019 – Run it back the same. Glenn officially got the LB job, apparently to free up KNJ to better actively apply the Peter Principle. Hurtt got Assistant HC title, the only assistant that seemed to have an upward trajectory.

          And I can’t stress that enough. In the NFL if your staff doesn’t have upward trajectory, you’ve failed to put together a great staff. There were several years of this.

          2020 – Let’s try this one more time, eh? Run it back. Former players Damione Lewis, Asst DL and Aaron Curry, Asst LB’s only addition to staff.

          That was a cluster****.

          2021. More cluster****. Another former Seahawk player, DeShawn Shead as Asst DB’s only addition.

          So you see, until 2022, a long line of mediocrity that includes little to no outside blood, and even the most noteworthy name that was outside blood was second generational inside blood (Donatell).

          2022 – huge changes, obviously.
          Clint Hurtt to DC, and Sean Desai as Associate HC, Defense being the biggest.
          Highly regarded Karl Scott to DB’s and Passing Game Coordinator.
          But no improvement to the LB staff (John Glenn remains) despite a lack of development of any LB’s post Wags and KJ.
          Aaron Curry moved to a DE focus as an assistant, with Damione Lewis taking the DT’s. Again, two ex players, neither of which I’ve heard anything good or bad as assistants, but certainly not “rising stars” at this point given outside Poona Ford the complete lack of development of players from either out of nowhere or highly talented to reach their ceilings.

          Lewis, Curry, and Shead were joined by fellow former player Will Tukuafu, as defensive QC. While it may be unfair to judge any of them as being risers, they certainly seem more like “Just a Guy Former Player for the Coach” hires. And again, this aligns with Pete’s hiring in general. Lots of in house. Which is great when you’re having a ton of success. But we haven’t. Yet he for the most part keeps going to that well.

          I was hopeful we would see a significant shift in the defense, but it still seems one foot in and out of the doors that are so familiar, both with staff and recent very limited examples of success.

          This is why I’m not at all sold just throwing a bunch of new talent at the defense is going to develop it. Who is doing the developing?!?

          • Tien

            You make good points in this post, Tyler, and we don’t know enough about what’s happening behind the scenes to know how bad/average these defensive coaches have been. But we do know that for at least 3 years, the Hawks have fielded a not good defense.

            You’re right. If the issue is that we don’t have good coaches to develop young new talent, then drafting new defensive talent may not be the fix that we want. But until Pete is gone, we’re stuck with his coaching choices and since we can’t replace the coaching staff, we will need to get better talent to support schemes that may not be effective. And who knows, with enough good talent on the defense, the coaches may even stumble into a scheme that uses that talent well.

          • cha

            Great post Tyler. Good to see you again.

            I think the developing aspect has been a real problem. I’ve said way too much that since the LOB era got disbanded in 2018-2019 he stopped developing defensive talent (in a big general way) and preferred lesser effective (but expensive) options of bringing in free agents in short deals that very rarely worked out.

            And earlier this year when the defense was awful, I think there was a bit of a misinformation campaign going on. Several reporters/bloggers suggested that problems stemmed from the Seahawks integrating all that young talent on the defense, when in fact the rookies were outplaying the veterans via PFF score and in making impact plays. Pete Carroll also remarked that it was the rookies, fueling that narrative.

            It obviously was a diversion tactic, as Poona, Woods, Mone, Jefferson, and Taylor really struggled to have any impact at all.

            I say all this because what have we seen the last two weeks? All those players struggling again to do anything of real note in the game.

            So throwing the young players under the bus again will not work. Fans know better by now.

          • Rob Staton

            That is a terrifying read, Tyler

            • Tyler Jorgensen

              Thanks, cha. I’m a regular reader here, but don’t always post. Love Rob’s perspective, that sometimes does and sometimes does not align with mine, but I think it’s a valuable pragmatic perspective in a land that sometimes is far too sunshine and rainbows.

              Rob, in fairness on the read, it does appear we’ve brought in some improvements on both sides of the ball the last couple years, so there is a little hope that things could improve coaching-wise. However, to unfortunately counter that my opinion is it still feels like that change was more forced upon Pete so much as him wanting it, and there are so many long term staff hold overs from the prior years.

              I would like to see continued evolution and investment in the staff to improve/upgrade the coaching staff. New blood, new strains, new input strike me as absolutely crucial to the maximization of on field performance via player development. When you look at some of the teams that truly dynamic, they’re hotbeds of younger trending coaches.

              Also, we’re talking about developing young players, one of which is hopefully a top5-ish cornerstone player, be it on defense or QB (my preference.) But my preference is based on the logic of maximum value. When I look at the offensive staff and think about development of a QB, I’m greatly concerned.

              I’m not sure we have the staff in place to truly develop an elite QB.

              On offense, Waldron has NEVER been a QB coach. Dave Canales is QB coach. He played WR, coached at CC level in Cali. Found his way to Pete via coaching summer camps for Pete at USC, been a part of Seattle staffs in offensive roles. I’m not sold he’s done a lot with QB’s given Russ’ success seems Russ-based and not coaching based, and you really only have Russ and Geno (a 10 year vet?) as examples of success at Qb. Neither seem “coached” to who they are so much as evolved.

              Then there’s 74 year old Carl “Tater” Smith, former QB coach and resident Pete-buddy.

              From there, Nate Carroll, whose offensive skill coaching is mostly WR based, and his evolution as a coach is basically solely tied with… being Pete’s son. He’s never coached outside Pete’s direct umbrella.

              And there’s Sanjay Lal, again Passing Game and WR based history. Was a WR on UW’s Natty team in 92. Had a couple seasons QB coach in the 90’s in small college. At least he, unlike most the offensive staff, has extensive outside experience, but again, on the WR side.

              Assistant WR coach Brad Idzik is a former WR who is son of former Hawk front office man John Idzik. Again, a nepotistic hire, whether qualified or not. Sounds like a smart guy, but has more front office experience than on field.

              Finally, there’s former journeyman QB Kerry Joseph, at Assistant QB Coach. He’s the only QB coach with actual QB experience, which seems meaningful in my eyes.

  35. Denver Hawker

    This is exactly the kind of loss I expected we’d see before the start of the season. They had us fooled for a few weeks there, but this defense hasn’t turned a corner.

    Lots of new faces on the field and sideline, but same old problems.

    Silver lining in the improvement of both draft picks today, but doesn’t make up for the disappointment in what appears to be a giant tease early season.

  36. Rob Staton

    Wonder if Quandre Diggs will get a collectors item…

    A game with two picks but still a horrendous PFF grade

    • 12th chuck

      what are the chances all he cares about are the picks, and not much else…

  37. CHaquesFan

    Walker has the 2nd lowest success rate (40%) of all RBs with >88 carries, only ahead of James Robinson according to FB Outsiders.

    Maybe Seattle should use Homer more, or will there be some decent power backs available in FA/Draft?

    • Rob Staton

      Or maybe it’s a combination of bad blocking and a running back who needs to learn to trust his blocking?

      • AlaskaHawk

        Didn’t he have a touchdown where he pulled out of the center of the line where he was supposed to run, go backwards and around the right side ? Talk about failure to block .

  38. Mr Magic

    Ive seen all I need to see. This team is decent and a year away at least. They have outperformed all expectations for this season, all is not lost, we are on an upward trajectory but this season is cooked. We will lose 3 more games, not sure 9-8 gets a wildcard birth. At this point I really don’t care if they lose the rest of their games as long as they compete and the players who will be here next year grow. Let Geno get a full season of starting under his belt. Let the young Oline build chemistry. We need talent on D (a lot of it) and consistency on O.

    Great news is we have a boatload of picks, 5 in the first 85 likely. If we end up with a really low pick Id expect they trade back and end up with 6 in the early rounds to really fill key spots and keep growing.

    • Rob Staton

      I fear any upward trajectory will be ruined by this defense. The scheme is a mess

  39. Pran

    Belchick’s defenses are good year in year out, whoever is the DC and with whatever personnel are available. Pete fields shitty defenses for 4-5 years in a row..enough said!

    • Mr Magic

      Yet belchicks coaching tree isnt exactly stellar when they go out on their own. I think its more about the personel than you realize.

      • Pran

        Look at current team, you do not see much of elite talent on D and mostly home grown.

        • Forrest

          Belichick doesn’t sign defenders like Diggs to large contracts.

      • Tyler Jorgensen

        Or maybe it’s a Pete Principle and they’re great in certain roles but not as Head Coaches.

        And even still, more than a couple have been pretty good. There are just so many examples. Pete seems to have a family atmosphere, hiring from his comfortable “within” and knowing the guys and having them be “his guys.”

        Not much “new blood” from outside, coaching wise. Pete’s guys doing Pete things, the way Pete likes. So when it works (which hasn’t really been the case for half a decade or so) that style works well. But when it doesn’t, all questions about why it doesn’t leads back to Pete.

        Particularly given his power over the years with regard to player personnel. The players aren’t developing. And he had a hand in picking them, in WHO is developing them, and is in charge of the system they’re developed in. Failures for the defense are failures for Pete.

  40. Gross MaToast

    Josh McDaniels is one of the preeminent offensive minds in football and holding his genius under 700 yards is an incredible win for any team.

    I’m not sure who’s running the defense, but no matter whether it’s Desai, Hurtt, or Pete, this three-headed shell game of blame avoidance is visionary. It’s not that there’s no accountability, but that there’s little accountability and that allows a certain lack of specifics regarding fixes because those answers come from the guy in charge because it’s a game of whack-a-mole. I love it so much. Again, Josh McDaniels, THE Josh McDaniels, was held to under a half mile of offense today.

    On another note, an aggressive estimate for selling the franchise could be 14-18 months, if things go right with the legal mumbo jumbo.

  41. Pran

    Question for Front office,how to acquire front 7 defense personnel either in draft or FA if the scheme is in Flux? They failed this off-season and had to adjust midway. And now they have the same question again.

  42. Mick

    I don’t necessarily mind the loss, although Raiders were a team to beat today. What troubles me is the way we lost. Missed opportunities for the O, terrible play for the D. This no longer feels like a team going somewhere. As much as I’d like a QB with better future than Geno, I hope we can extend him and get Jalen Carter with our first pick. And we need to stop being cute about it and get ourselves a strong center and a replacement for Gabe Jackson.

  43. RugbyLock

    The defense appears to have reverted to the pure trash they were at the beginning of the year. The four weeks they looked good appear to have been an aberration. Barring a massive turnaround on D I don’t see them making the playoffs this year. At least it’ll mean a better draft choice. I think the BAMF on D could be a good choice as the O seems to still be pulling their weight with Geno at the helm.

  44. Scot04

    I’m just hoping the Rams don’t play their way to a franchise QB at pick #3.
    It will suck if we get lucky on our Denver Pick, to only have the Rams finish higher.
    After this game, I could easily see us finishing 7-10; Especially if the Rams can turn it around.
    Amazing how a couple bad games with a porous run defense & 0 passrush can kill the optimism.

    • Scot04

      Lol, I keep forgetting the Rams don’t own their own pick.

    • HOUSE

      That RAMS pick belongs to the LIONS. I can’t see the Lions not taking a QB

      • Rob Staton

        I think the Lions will take a QB too

        But the one thing that is letting them down most is their defense

      • Scot04

        I’m just happy to see the Rams won’t be getting a Stafford replacement with that pick.

  45. Hughz

    Just watched that last play. Three players failed to do their basic job. First what was Barton doing. It’s like he can’t see where the ball is going so he just runs into some lineman. Second the safties just sit back way too long. Once Jones makes an attempt his angle is horrendous. Good gracious he was late. And Diggs wow you got to attack. Can’t let a TE block out of the play that easily.

    • Malc from PO

      Fair, but don’t leave out Brooks getting absolutely annihilated! The entire defense got destroyed on that play, it was astonishing.

  46. Mick

    Watched the highlights again. It’s incredible how many times our defenders, most often Brooks but also Harris, have their hands on the runner when he’s 6-7 yds short and he ends up with a gain of 3. I don’t know how they can unlearn to tackle.

  47. JC

    There is the argument that if the Seahawks defensive interior is this bad (though an 86 yard run does mangle a lot of per carry stats you’d have avoided with a decision in regulation), then team that was never going to compete for a ‘chip would be better off losing competitive games and not sneak into the playoffs.. then we get the best of our and Denver’s draft world. But offensively you’d like to see Walker be able to consistently gain at least 3 yards most of his carries, and he’s really been shut down the last 2 games, despite 2 TD’s Sunday.

    • Rob Staton

      Well they were giving up 5.2 yards per carry in regulation and it jumped to something like 7.1

      So it was still awful

      • clbradley17

        Amazing how this coaching staff had 2 whole weeks to prepare to scheme a plan to stop Jacobs after a good game against the Broncos and season, and we made him look like an All Pro Hall of Famer with over 300 yards total (229 rushing yards and 74 yards receiving).

        Same with Crosby. Great game against Denver and season. Scheme to stop him by putting in extra TEs, a jumbo package with a swing tackle, extra RB, whatever it takes. And how did we miss Crosby in the 2019 draft? Raiders got him in the 4th after a great career in college and fantastic combine running in the 4.6s at 6’5″ 255 with a 6.8 3 cone, and he just turned 25 in August. Meanwhile we selected DE Collier, S Blair and LB Barton in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, either already gone or soon will be.

        And it seems like we should be able to scheme a way to get to the QB. Listened to the 1st few minutes of the post game podcast during breaks at work, and you’re right. We don’t use our guys as pass rushers most of the time, just as OLBs setting the edge or covering TEs or RBs.

        This is on Pete and the staff not being prepared. And as you outlined in this article, it’s worrisome that they never will get it right with this same lineup coaching, using these same poor schemes. Wouldn’t matter who they get in the draft, using these same concepts, they’ll start every year and have many other games each season where they can’t stop the run or get to the QB.

  48. Rob Staton

    What the hell is Darrell Taylor doing?

    • bv eburg

      That is crazy Rob. Surprised nobody caught it until later.

      Not only was our run defense atrocious but so was our run offense. They need some BAMF up the middle on both sides of the ball. Like KJ said on the radio get some big boys in front of him.

    • Trevor

      What has Taylor been doing all season?

      • Big Mike

        Less than this

    • Sea Mode

      That is one of the most hilarious brain farts I’ve seen in a while.

      Obviously, he probably thought Diggs was downed by contact and was running on to join the celebration, but still… wow

    • Scot04

      He can’t get to the QB or create any pressure; guess he’s at the point he’ll do anything to atleast hit someone during the game.
      Seriously though, it makes you wonder where his head is at this year.

  49. Mr Magic

    I think its unlikely but if we have a top 3 pick from Denver I don’t see us taking a QB if we keep Geno. You cant bench a top 3 pick QB for more than a year tops and would GEno want to be here if he knows its a 1yr gig? Would be perfect to move back a few spots, still get a top defensive lineman and grab another pick in the early rounds if we are top 3.

    • Peter

      I disagree. The modern nfl says you are right but that’s looking increasingly like a bad idea year after year with first rounders flaming out.

      This was how tons of teams used to develop qbs. If geno gets a three year solid money contract what’s he care if he plays one year or all three?

      Also it’s not up to him per se. Most likely his contract gets done before the draft.

      • Mr Magic

        Right, he will be signed pre draft, however if we have a top 3 pick he will want to know what we are doing. Mgmt wont tell him they are not taking a QB then take one. If they tell him they will take a QB then he may not want to stay. Also with the contracts on Rookie QBs that early in draft, it aint cheap at all, you almost have to start them by year 2 otherwise you are missing the whole concept of having a cheap young qb. Also if you pay Geno and a young QB you are basically in the same problem as having an expensive vet qb.

        Its just not gonna happen, it would be one or the other.

        • bmseattle

          Well, if we continue to revert back to the mediocre to bad team we all expected going into the season, the decision to *not* resign Geno will become easier and easier.
          Geno has been very good, no doubt… but he hasn’t risen to the occasion in big moments at the end of games. Also, his tendency to put the ball at risk as he gains more confidence in himself is rearing it’s head.
          Would it shock anyone if Geno fell back to earth a bit over the last third of the season?

          • Mr Magic

            If we have a top 3 pick there will be a case to be made that you save the $$$ and don’t sign Geno, go with a young QB day 1 and use the $ to build up elsewhere for sure.

      • AlaskaHawk

        It’s not a bad idea to have a good backup. Chicago Bears we’re on their third QB. We got spoiled because Russell was healthy most of the time.

        • Mr Magic

          It just doesnt make sense . You dont pay up Geno (lets say 15mln yr) , then have a gushing press conference talking about how he is your immediate future then draft a qb at #3 who would be on $9mln yr (36mlyn 4yr is the going rate for 3rd picks). Firstly it upsets Geno and goes against everything you said in the signing presser. Secondly you just used your best draft asset to not get better at a position you already have filled day 1. Thirdly you are now paying almost 25mln a year for 2 qbs that takes away key $ for other areas of a rebuild.

          Its possible, teams have done it, I just dont think it makes ideal sense. We have Lock as the backup, he was drafted high. Let him learn the ropes for a few years and maybe he develops too, he is still young. Or you draft a kid in the mid rounds, this draft is full of QB prospects who can be benched a few years.

          • Scot04

            Lock isn’t signed, both QBs are Free-agents.
            Seahawks say they believe in always compete.
            Geno’s had essentially 1 good year if he finishes this year out of his whole career.
            If Geno gets an new contract; then is upset by us drafting a QB, we shouldn’t want him.
            Simple fact is, he just has to continue to play like a top 10 QB & he has nothing to worry about.
            Seahawks can’t base their draft on what their QB wants, they need to take BPA. If that’s a QB, then fine.
            If Geno loses his job, it only shows the Seahawks made the correct draft pick.
            If Geno keeps his job, you have a young backup who you obviously believe in.
            The one thing you definitely can’t do, is reach on a non QB player just to appease your newly signed QB.

          • Tien

            If Geno continues with his current play and not totally flame out the rest of the season, I don’t think we get him for $15 million a year. There are so many QB needy teams in the NFL that somebody will sign him to a lot more money than that. Is he a Top Ten QB who can put a team on his shoulders and win one? Nope. But you put him behind a good/decent OL and running game and he’s proven thus far that he’s effective. I don’t think there’s much of a difference between him and Derek Carr or even Kirk Cousins and he’s probably at least a Top 20 QB. I think Geno can probably get between $20 – $30 million a year in FA.

            If the Hawks find a QB (hopefully that’s Levis or Richardson) that they think is their QB of the future, I have no problem with drafting him with the Denver 1st rounder and pay him as well as whatever contract Geno signed. I’d rather the team overpay a little at the QB position for a year or two if it gives the rookie QB the best chance of success.

            Geno rightly will want to get paid with his next contract but I “think” he also understands that a good part of his success is due to his familiarity with this offense and the system and players around him. It might not be as easy going to a different team so I think that unless another team offers him crazy money, the Hawks and Geno should be able to arrive at a contract that satisfies both parties. At least, I hope so. I also think that Geno, as a 10 year veteran, understands how the NFL works. No job is guaranteed and if he gets paid well and is given a fair chance to compete each year, I can’t imagine that the Seahawks’ intention to draft a QB high in the upcoming draft would be a deal breaker for him.

  50. Trevor

    Hawks 2023 mock and Free Agent Targets. Focus on defense front 7 and getting more physical on offense.


    #4 Jalen Carter (DL / Georgia) if the Hawks extend Geno then Carter is the dream pick and the type of player this defense so desperately needs.

    #16 Tyree Wilson (DE / Tex Tech) he could go earlier than this but a broken foot will limit his pre-draft workouts etc. Great size and length that would be a nice compliment to the Hawks current edge group.

    #35 JL Skinner (S / Boise St) Blog favorite tone setter in the secondary.

    #50 John Michael Schmitz (C/ Minnesota) Big physical Center who would bring some physicality to middle of the OL.

    #81 Kenny Macintosh (RB / Georgia) Nice compliment to Walker.

    #118 Owen Pappie (LB/ Auburn) the kind of atheltic freak the Hawks like at LB.

    2023 Free Agency

    -Resign Geno, Lock, Neal and Goodwin

    -Sign Isiah Wynn (OL) ideal guard in the Hawks scheme and can play OT if needed in case of injury.

    -Sign Chauncey Gardner Johnson (S) ball hawking free safety who plays with attitude. Skinner, CGJ and Neal would be a massive upgrade at the safety position.

    -Sign David Oneymata (DT) BAMF and solid run defender that this DL desperately needs. Add him and Carter and the Hawks run defense looks very different.

    These 3 free agent additions would not break the bank and fill big needs IMO. If the Hawks move on from guys like Diggs, Adams, Jefferson and Jackson it should be more than doable price wise.

    • Mr Magic

      Like it! I do think Adams will ball out next year and stay fit however. He will be in a contract year effectively. Adams goes a long way in run stopping.

      • Big Mike

        “I do think Adams will ball out next year and stay fit”……..

        Kudos to you for your positivity but I have to wonder why some folks actually believe this.

        • Mr Magic

          because his future depends on it and these guys tend to find ways to stay healthy when its effectively a contract year.

      • Peter

        Jamal Adams?

        Sportrac has him on contract til 2025 with an out only coming in 2024.

        Whether you like him or not it’s pretty well past time to recognize that he’s cooked.

        Four straight seasons of missing time with each season the games missed gets longer.

        • Mr Magic

          Correct, we have an out after next season so he is basically with us for next year then gets cut almost definitely. So he will need to put on a really top season next year to have a life after the cut either with us or anywhere else in the league.

          • Mr Magic

            to be clear the hawks have an out AFTER 2023 season, not after 2024. The cut would technically take place before the 24 season starts, 2 seasons from now.

    • Peter


      Nicely done. I’d quite like a good deal of this.

  51. bv eburg

    Sign me up for that Trevor

  52. pdway

    well – – what the Hawks did was give us hope and expectations – I think most of us came into this year thinking it was a full bottoms-up rebuild, and when you’re in that mindset, you anticipate mostly losses and every win, or even close game, is sort of an unexpected pleasure. But then Geno surprised all of us, and the offense gelled – and then when the defense came around, it seemed like we may just have the beginnings of a complete team. Expectation rose. And so, when you lose eminently winnable games like this one – it’s a real gutpunch. Still can’t believe, even after all the this and that of the game, that when their FG kicker missed that 56 yarder, we couldn’t gain the 15-20 yards needed to try our own FG and sneak out w a win.

    The real bummer, as you have all noted – is that one bad game (Tampa) can be a fluky aberration, but two in a row, where the same problems are so clearly the cause – and all the good stuff is thrown into question.

    For those who know – all that talk about how we righted the ship on D by shifting the positioning/gap coverage of the D line, etc. – what happened, did we go away from it? Did we just get worse at it? In any event, kind of back to where I was at the beginning of the year now.

    • bmseattle

      ” Still can’t believe, even after all the this and that of the game, that when their FG kicker missed that 56 yarder, we couldn’t gain the 15-20 yards needed to try our own FG and sneak out w a win.”

      Yeah, for as great and surprising that Geno’s season has been, we are still waiting for the big, game winning drive to occur.
      He has been able to run out the clock with long drives at the end of games, but we haven’t seen him be able to win the game at the end when it’s do or die.

      • Big Mike

        But if New York doesn’t cheat us and have them change that catch call by DK maybe we do sneak out a win.

        • Big Mike

          I mean you could tell that the announcers were given a call and told to change their opinion about that play by someone in New York. And if you don’t believe that I have some fabulous ocean front property in Kansas I would love to sell you cheap.

          • Mr Magic

            I dont see how that isnt a catch outright. Even if the ball slides between his hands to leg the ball never loses touch with his hands or leg, or body for that matter. If he were to run down the field with the ball between his hand and leg its possession, You only lose possession when the ball becomes totally lose from your arms, legs, etc. THe ball never came lose. I am really shocked that one got overturned.

            That said we had ball in same spot with a 1st down in OT and went 3 and out. Personally I think they shoulda gone for it on that 4th and 5 in stead of punting it.

            • GlastoHawk UK

              Perhaps if they hadn’t rushed the decision we could have had a different outcome 😉.
              In football (soccer) we have lengthy camera aided adjudication (VAR), decisions take far to long, and still mistakes are made and the spontaneous excitement is damaged. Even worse in Cricket as well as video replay we have a “Snickometer” audio to check if a batsmen has the slightest of touches to a ball and a computer generated graphic to see if the ball would have hit the wickets if it had not hit the batsmen’s pad subject to the ball not having landed on the pitch outside leg.
              None of these aids add to the paying publics enjoyment, quite the reverse, they kill atmosphere and unnecessarily prolong the length of games. Let’s go back to the on pitch decision, suck it up and get on with it.

          • bmseattle

            Well, you are opening a whole other can of worms, re: whether NFL games are…”influenced” by the NFL “Powers That Be”.
            If the NFL has it out for Geno and/or this incarnation of the Seahawks (ie, they don’t want a Geno-led Seahawks team to “succeed”.), then that is even *more* reason not to resign the guy.

            • Big Mike

              Doubt that it’s Geno, I think it’s more trying to keep the fan base in Las Vegas interested and engaged. And yes I do believe the NFL is doing this and it’s easy now with NY involved.

              • Big Mike

                Remember our team was sacrificed for the Jerome Bettis is coming home to Detroit storyline.
                Tuck rule game. That call took as long as the DK no catch yesterday while they were desperately searching for a way to give the ball back to New England
                I could go on…oh like the DPI not called against the Rams so they could have a chance to get to the Super Bowl when Los Angeles is a notoriously poor fan base.
                You get the idea

                • bmseattle

                  Yeah, you don’t need to convince me that this kind of thing goes on.
                  there is too much at stake for them not to do it.
                  I try to ignore it, so I can still enjoy watching… but when your own team is the one getting screwed, it’s difficult to ignore.

                  • Big Mike

                    This kind of manipulation of games combined with terrible officiating in the NFL and college football and bad officiating in college basketball and lousy umpiring from people like Angel Hernandez is making it more and more difficult for me to watch sports every year.

        • bmseattle

          The throw from Geno could have been better, as well.
          My main point was that when considering the “should we sign Geno to a big money contract” question, I’d like to see a bit more success at the end of games before saying “yes”.

          • Big Mike

            I don’t disagree at all.

      • Big Mike

        You’re correct, Geno has not done it yet. That is something Wilson did on a very regular basis and despite all the hate for him both here and elsewhere, I wish people would appreciate that aspect of his time here as much as anything else. That said, please continue to lose Denver.

        • pdway

          You’re not wrong – but peak Russell was an absolute magician, one of the best playmakers the league has seen. In Geno’s defense, at least w/r/t yesterday, at those crucial moments of the last drives, his protection was blown up and he was sacked before much of anything could happen. He did bring them back for scores to even the game at 27 and 34.

          In connection w that – in reading stuff today, I did not that Lucas came up on the injury report w “Illness”, so he likely had the flu or something like that, and maybe he was just gassed at the end of the game (and of course going against one of the league’s best pass rushers).

    • AlaskaHawk

      My apologies if this was discussed in the pod cast but I was to depressed to listen to it.

      I don’t see a whole lot of difference in last years defensive line and this years version. Is it a 4-3 or 3-4? When they rush it looks the same. I just don’t see the ability to shed a block and rush the QB. I would like to see bigger personnel in the middle, and better pass rushers on the ends. I like Al Woods, Poona Ford and that guy whose name starts with an N. The rest have disappeared.

      • bmseattle

        I’ve always like Ford, however I fear that he is a liability against the run, overall.
        He is a slashing, penetrating DL, and if he guesses correctly, or happens to penetrate the correct gap, he makes big plays.
        Unfortunately, he isn’t big enough to anchor and hold his ground, so when he isn’t penetrating, he is getting pushed around a lot.

      • AlaskaHawk

        I just had a thought, I don’t think I saw the defensive line stunt at all.

        I’ll add to Mikes post. I do appreciate Russell’s qualities, especially with the long bomb and 4 th quarter drives. I also appreciate his toughness .

        One thing I noticed about both teams during their last drives in regulation time was a failure to go out of bounds. This is edge receiving 101. Catch the ball and go out of bounds. It happened twice with the Seahawks last drive.

        • Mr Magic

          i was shocked LV had the ball with iirc all 3 time outs and 48 seconds and chose not to try and win it in regulation.

  53. Zane

    What about this scenario.
    We have the #4 pick; Levis, Richardson, Anderson and Carter are gone.
    That leaves Stroud and Young. Let’s say Seattle doesn’t love them, they’ve already resigned Geno/Lock, and they know they need to upgrade the whole roster.

    Isn’t it possible a QB needy team trades the farm for Young/Stroud? To move up to #4 a team would likely have to give up their 1st, their 2nd, their 3rd and next years 1st. This helps us reload the defense and get a developmental mid-round QB to compete with Lock/Geno

    • Trevor

      If those 4 players are gone and some team makes a big offer then the Hawks should absolutely trade back IMO.

    • Chris

      If we have the number four pick, how are all four of those players gone? Only three players could be drafted ahead of our pick.

      • Big Mike


      • Zane

        Lol, oops- the #5 pick then!
        I guess that just means we can’t go wrong if we get the #4 or higher.

  54. Spectator

    Thinking about what PC/JS and co will do with the number 3 pick, why would they go QB?

    Im seeing some here say that Geno shouldn’t be resigned for the money because he hasnt had his game winning drive yet or shown that he can do that. So the money is best spent on D and then draft a Qb at 3 or 4 or wherever we end up with Broncos pick.

    So my thinking:

    1) So the deal is we have 20 mil (what some saying Geno will get for APY) and a top 5 pick. If we dont use that money on Geno, and instead on a top 5 pick, who on D are we getting with that money that is going to make a difference? We talking about 1 player, or 2? Who is going to be available in FA that could even provide a difference on D?

    2) This is the most important, why would an aging PC want a young QB that will need years to develop? Why would JS with the Hawks on the brink of being sold and his job not secure, want to spend a premium pick on a QB that will take years to return on the pick? Dont they kind of have to stick with Geno or Lock at this point? They have young pieces on the Oline and def that are on a short clock before either leaving in FA or becoming expensive.

    With all factors considered, and with Geno playing well and not losing us games, seems that we are in win now mode, and need to fill the roster with missing pieces. Which primarily are on the Dline and interior Oline. I just cant see JS or PC thinking they want to use that top pick on a QB, even if it would be the better (arguably) move for the future. They probably feel they have 3 years at most.

    • bmseattle

      I agree that this is likely how Pete is thinking (not so sure about John).
      I think it all depends upon how we finish the season.
      What if we lose half our games, Geno looks ok, but not great, and we miss the playoffs?
      I highly doubt that signing Geno, for even 20million/year would be in their plans.
      You mentioned Lock and Geno in the same breath, but clearly, going with Lock would save millions over going with Geno.

      • pdway

        to me, the best argument for drafting a QB next year is not really the Geno of it all – I think he’s been really good, and is good enough to take a balanced team well into the playoffs – it’s that we may not have a top-5 1st round pick again anytime soon. So if you want that shot at a true blue-chipper (i’ll leave the analysis of whether that exists this year to others), then this coming year may be a once in 10 years type of shot at it.

        • Spectator

          That’s my point tho, why would PC/JS care about getting a blue chip QB that will take time to develop, opposed to a blue chip defensive player that can have a more immediate impact? PC/JS aren’t likely to be here to even reap the reward of the blue-chipper at QB.

          • pdway

            yeah – i hear you – was just making the more general argument about what’s best for the Hawks, not the PC/JS point you were making.

  55. CJ

    Seattle drafted LJ Collier, Marquis Blair and Cody Barton on defense before Oakland took Maxx Crosby in 2019 in the 4th round. I’m laughing and crying at the same time upon learning this.

  56. Hoggs41

    Its inteterting (the way it stands now), looking at the top 4 right now and what you can do. It just feels like the Bears will end up trading that pick to a QB needy team. If Houston does picks a QB then that leaves with either Carter or Anderson if you want to go D.

  57. Hoggs41

    Do we think Geno can take us to the promise land? I just think he is Alex Smith and can only get you so far. Obviously the board might dictate what you do but I think I would go Richardson over Carter/ Anderson if given the chance.

    • AlaskaHawk

      If Geno Smith and offense was paired with an elite defense they could absolutely win the Super Bowl. Look at what Denver did with an elite defense and an over the hill Peyton Manning that could barely hit a receiver.

      Another shocker was the Giants and Eli Manning with a strong defense beating the Patriots with Tom Brady. If he hadn’t thrown behind Edelman….

  58. Old but Slow

    For me it seems like they need a different approach to linebacker. Fast, violent, athletic players are attractive, but if they are not in position to hit the right gap, or to recognize a crossing pass pattern, they are not helping. That was a quality that K J Wright had in spades. Our current LBs make a lot of tackles, but too many are after a gain has already made yardage. Early Wagner and Wright would fill the holes, not chase them down. Of course it is all rosy in retrospect.

  59. cha

    Ian Rapoport
    #Rams coach Sean McVay tells reporters that WR Allen Robinson suffered a season-ending foot injury and needs surgery. Source said it’s a stress fracture that, assuming he has surgery, will require a screw.

    Good grief, the butcher’s bill is being paid.

  60. cha

    PC show on 710

    [q] What happened? “Just didn’t seize opp on both sides. Defense got ball back for offense in OT, couldn’t make anything of it. Games all over league like this, gotta do it when you get your chance, couldn’t. Jacobs run it like you did, amazing. Tough loss in reg and OT.”

    [q] Offensive weapons, challenge in Adams and Jacobs? “First class personnel right there. WR, RB, QB excellent. Enough to build team around. We didn’t win the LOS either side, really devastating. Turned into another third down day, they were good we weren’t.”

    [q] Two games in a row Rush D bad? What is it? Same issues early in year? “Totally different style of attack. We didn’t handle it. After tampa came back to fix it, didn’t get it done. Schematically commit more.”

    [q] How do you evaluate the D? Casual fan ask what need to do? “Really hard for fans, I understand that. Explain, too much detail and depth we don’t go to. Work together better in all phases. LBs played very aggressive, downhill against attack. Cody and Bruce attacked, didn’t fit well. Missed a couple shots with safeties. Guys up front penetrate more. Help them more as coaches, I need to do better.”

    [q] Ryan Neal elbow? “No updates.”

    [q] His play this year? “Emotional aspect important to team. Productive, aggressive style. Thrilled come that far. Couple years ago, wasn’t all that. Very good now.

    [q] Why safety not valued in NFL? “Supply and demand. Lots of guys can play safety. Not big difference between very top guys and other guys. Guys with a lot of savvy can play.”[cha ed: good God]

    [q] Offensive thoughts? “Didn’t run the ball, balance that we need. Throwing the ball, classic Geno game. Pick was a mistake. We screwed up. One big play. Other play, fumble, keeper, nicked off Walker’s hip. Small difference, big play. Fundamental issues we can easily fix. Love his demeanor post game. Gets it.”

    [q] Great two minute QB? “Find way down field, whatever it takes. Execute. Right choices, not force issues, every now and then gotta run. Marvelous job yesterday. Two huge runs yesterday.”

    [q] Plays reviewed, DK and no fumble? “I don’t know so quickly they said forward motion. That’s just a flow tackle, ball’s out. Great play by our guys. He was going backwards. What if he spins off that thing and runs?? Didn’t hear whistle. Once they declare that, nothing else matters. Tough call. Really tough call. Great play by D. DK call, look that we didn’t see was ball move 2 inches. Both side judges called it totally a catch. Not been under 2 min wouldn’t have happened. Officials overtake and call for replay. Called by side judges so definitively a catch. Outside 2 mins that’s a catch.”

    • cha

      [q] Geno says now hunted not hunter, feel hype of expectations now? “Great insight by Geno. Shows capable of QB.”

      [q] Great RB today? “Spacing, holes, look same. Quickly adjust. A lot to learn. A lot to take adv of. Don’t miss opps. Power call, beautifully blocked, Walker just didn’t see it. With experience next time take adv of. Ton to learn. Situational play. Made some spectacular plays for us. Two TDs. How does he know when it’s gonna happen? Instincts. Developing.”

      [q] Style needs 20 carries, small gains then home runs? “No doubt. Most RBs that way. More they see it the better they feel. Applies to Ken.”

      [q] Rookies hitting the wall? Holding up? “Tariq played well, they stayed away from them. Number of routes covered really well. Mike solid job. Quick stuff underneath couldn’t do much about. Fantastic catch by adams on sidelines. Tackles held up pretty good. Abe looked run over late, not how it should have worked out. Teamed that up better.”

      [q] Crosby 10.5 sacks, monster? “Best guy we’ve seen. Major factor in the game. Team so close to being good. Hope for Josh’s sake can turn season around. Look capable.”

      [q] Pass rush poor, what’s happening on edge? “Not effective as we wanted to be. They blocked us up pretty good. Didn’t get anything from the edge. Game inside they blocked us well. Did not make it difficult enough for Carr. Big factor. We threw some stuff at them they picked it up.”

      [q] Darrell Taylor not taking the next step? “Frustrated by it too. He has high expectations. Didn’t happen yesterday like we’d like it. They blocked him.”

      [q] Come off sidelines? “Thought Q was down. Exuberance to get on field, celebrate. Haven’t see it happen before. Wasn’t trying to block, just celebrate. I’ve thought about making that play too, when someone returns a kick.”

      [q] 5 week stretch run? “Going to LA, that’s the only count we have. Look at league, other teams run into OT and don’t get. Once in a while smooth win. But mostly a dogfight until the end. Mentality you have to have. Going to LA gotta get it.”

      [q] Why is that? 1-10 team can win any week? “League so equal, coaches and players are good. Everybody busting tail to get it done. Some teams remain dominant ride their players. Carry the team. Most part it’s a dogfight. Scheme wise and performance wise gotta come through. Challenging. Learning from what Geno was talking about.”

      [q] Friday night Pac-12 game stop Utah TE? “SC exciting team to watch. Lincoln and Caleb really something. Finely oiled machine. Hard to stop.”

      [q] Apple cup? Penix? “Terrific. Poised, strong, accurate, good system, good WRs. Impressive. NFL arm, no doubt.”

      • Scot04

        Thanks Cha.
        [q] Why safety not valued in NFL? “Supply and demand. Lots of guys can play safety. Not big difference between very top guys and other guys. Guys with a lot of savvy can play.”

        This was incredibly painful to hear after all we gave up in picks & salary for our 2 safties.
        I know whatt was my feeling was when the Adams trade was announced. WTF, Horrible Trade.

        However, after hearing Pete say that, it was like getting salt rubbed into an open wound.
        Sometimes I wonder what the heck Pete is thinking when he answers some questions; but this has to near the top.

        • Roy Batty

          It’s like someone asking a millionaire if he likes driving his Bentley Cotinental and the rich guy says, “Well, cars are just about getting from A to B, so it doesn’t matter what car you drive, as long as it gets you there.”

          • cha

            Right. When the millionaire has made a good chunk of his fortune by knowing the difference between a Bentley, a Lexus, a Hyundai and a Geo Metro.

            I so, so want a member of the press corps to ask Pete to elaborate on this this afternoon.

      • Big Mike

        C’mon Pete, eat the fine and just come out and say “we got screwed” on both those. Quit dancing around it.

      • Big Mike

        ” I’ve thought about making that play too, when someone returns a kick.”

        Well Pete, if you were Mike Tomlin you could and get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. However, since you aren’t the HC of the almighty stealers, I’m guessing your punishment would be far more severe.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Defense got ball back for offense in OT, couldn’t make anything of it

      And that’s Peteball in a nutshell

      I don’t know if Carroll gives a rat’s ass about the first 3.5 quarters of a football game.

      Hey as long as you’re within striking distance at the end…

      That’s Carroll’s idea of a good game

      Where are we going with all this? Draft picks, roster construction, cap space? To what end if Carroll is still mostly just playing for a tie?

      • Pran

        Pete was right as much as D is to blame, Offense had two opportunities to close the game end of Q4 and in OT and just could not get it done. Geno yet to have a late game winning drive this season.

        • Peter

          Pete’s a defensive coach.

          40 points to the raiders and the offense couldn’t get it done?

          I get there are opportunities. I get geno and the game winning drive conundrum.

          But love duck. This defense has been middling to crap since 2017. You can’t be in shootouts to the raiders and the saints.

          • Pran

            Defense failed. there is no question about it. This is about offense not failing to capitalize on the opportunities.

      • 12th chuck

        “That’s Carroll’s idea of a good game” and doesn’t give a crap about what anyone else thinks about it, and isn’t going to change now

        • Blitzy the Clown


    • Blitzy the Clown

      Why safety not valued in NFL? “Supply and demand. Lots of guys can play safety. Not big difference between very top guys and other guys. Guys with a lot of savvy can play.”[cha ed: good God]

      Exhibit 12 that Pete is absolutely, completely, totally, full of bollocks

      Safety is a fungible position. That’s why we mortgaged two future drafts and burdened our cap space with an albatross of a contract for Adams. And then spent another princely sum on Diggs. Because there’s not a big difference between the guy we spent two R1 picks on.

      Lord help me

      • bmseattle

        I think it was Pete, desperately trying to recreate the impact on defense that we had with Kam and Earl their prime.
        One could argue that having two HOFers at the position would be worth the money.
        Clearly, the Adams trade was ridiculous from the outset… and the contract made it all the worse.
        You need to aquire your talent mainly through the draft and capitalize on the years that they are cheap and hungry.

      • Big Mike

        Lord help me too. I think bmseattle is correct in his opinion on the motivation for the Adams trade (along with getting no one to rush the passer that offseason), but the process was horrible.
        1. You knew Adams wasn’t what you had hoped for after year one. You already knew that after having to blitz Bobby up the middle so often to create his stupid 9.5 sacks. You double down on the mistake, quite possibly to save face, by heaping a shitload of money on the guy.
        2. If you felt that way, why 10 million to Diggs after you had to have known you weren’t going to be able to recreate Earl/Kam?

        • bmseattle

          Remember after we acquired Adams, Greg Williams made some comments to the media about how our defense wasn’t creative enough to utilize Adams well?
          He made kind of a snarky comment about how Adams would be bored.

          I remember Pete making a snarky comment back to the media (or Williams), early in the season when Adams was performing pretty well… well, getting sacks, at least.
          Something along the lines of…”I guess Adams isn’t bored”.

          It seems like Pete really wanted to get Adams his sacks that first year. As you mentioned, even going so far as to adjust the scheme and use Wagner in unusual ways, just in order to optimize Adams production…or the appearance of production.

          Ironically, all it did was further fuel Adams ego and raise his contract demands. All while further weakening our defense and ostensibly proving to the rest of the team that Pete is willing to sacrifice his vision of how a defense should run, for personal/petty reasons.

          It’s so frustrating to think about how that all unfolded.
          Pete’s ego is his greatest weakness.

          • Big Mike

            VERY well said.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      What if he spins off that thing and runs?? Didn’t hear whistle. Once they declare that, nothing else matters.

      New rule: a play continues until the whistle blows

      Oh wait, that’s already a rule

      Another proud moment for NFL officiating

      • cha

        Thanks again for the superchat shout out Blitzy. That was extremely generous.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          I’m just saying what we’re all thinking: you’re an invaluable part of SDB Curtis

          I was having some connectivity issues though, and was worried I wouldn’t be able to get it in on time!

          • Big Mike

            Absolutely spot on Blitzy. You are indeed invaluable Curtis. This place is just the best.

  61. JimQ

    I don’t see this CB on your big board. perhaps he’s one that just slipped thru the cracks or was just simply overlooked, which is very understandable with 1000’s of players to evaluate.

    CB-Emmanuel Forbes, Mississippi St. 6-0/180 – Seems to be a bigtime ballhawk in the SEC.
    2022-so far- 11-games, 39-tkls, 1-TFL, 6-INT. (with 3-pick sixes), 9-PD, 1-FF
    Currently ranked #43 overall on consensus rankings. A pretty generous ranking, but this guy may be draftable somewhere in the draft & might merit inclusion on your big board?

    • Rob Staton

      One I intend to watch soon

  62. Roy Batty

    My coworker, the Raiders fan who flew in for the game, came in spitting fire.

    I promptly thanked him for an enjoyable game, a top 4 pick and the #16 pick.

    It was nice twist of the knife reminding him that the LV win allowed us to jump them in the draft order.

    • AlaskaHawk

      I ran into a Raider fan at the hardware store. We had a pretty good conversation. He was happy for the win because they had lost so many close games this season. Also mentioned that they had almost cut Jacobs this summer to save money. The guy single handedly won them the game! Anyway he wasn’t over the top, just wanted to chat! He even liked Geno Smith. So that was nice- and totally different from my experience with Raider fans in bars.

  63. Henry Taylor

    I am so conflicted on what Seattle should do with the Denver pick, Geno has been a revelation this year but I also think we have seen his limitations. He’s making worse decisions and taking more sacks. He also had two shots to win that game on offense, and whilst it obviously wasn’t all on him, he didn’t take it.

    Adding onto that there’s his age to consider, the price, the fact that the top defensive players in this draft come with big question marks about their ceiling. Can we pass on a long term franchise QB for what could be a good not great defender? We’ve also talked about money being tight, but if you aren’t budgeting for a big QB extension it is suddenly looking a lot more inviting, especially if they’re prepared to be brave with their big safety contracts. You could potentially bring in 2 established front seven players to compliment the young guys we already have, instead of adding another unproven player.

    But, all that being said, how do you pass on a guy that has shown basically everything you could want at the position other than that rare top level ability for a total unknown? If Joe Burrow or Andrew Luck were in this draft and available sure, but they aren’t. You’ve got a raw toolsy guy with tons of upside but plenty of risk, a good looking but older gunslinger with more turnovers than you want, an Ohio State QB who’ll need time to learn to play the game at this level and a talented but extremely worryingly undersized Bama QB that youll spend everygame stressing about whether they stay healthy. I find myself liking and not loving all those guys.

    Long story short, idk, I’m finding it oddly stressful even though it’s miles away from even knowing where exactly we stand and what the options are.

    • EWeb

      I think Geno would look a whole lot better with a decent running game. Considering – I thought he was pretty top notch.

      • Big Mike

        Agree. Pretty much all QBs look better with a decent running game. Considering he had none yesterday, Geno handled himself well. I might add, I think that PART of the reason Russ has struggled so badly in Denver this year. They’ve had zero run game since Williams went down.

      • Henry Taylor

        Isn’t that kind of the problem though, even as good as he’s played, he needs everything to be right around him. He left points on the field and didnt take the game when the opportunity was there.

        If we have a chance to get that guy that makes everything around him right, shouldnt we take it? And I’m not saying that guy is available this year, but they could be and this is my dilemma.

    • Romeo A57

      I believe that this decision gets easier if you consider that Seattle has the draft position and draft capital to get a potential franchise QB this year and this year only. They may not be in this position for a long time. If they win between 7-10 games every year it is difficult to get to the top of the draft to get the top QB prospects

      Geno has shown that his ceiling is Carr, Jimmy G or Cousins. You can win a lot of games with a middle of the pack QB but it is difficult to win a Championship with them. I am curious if there are any sign and trade options with Geno.

      • Spectator

        2 of the QBs you mentioned are QBing two of the best teams and offenses in the NFL, while cant miss prospects like TLaw is playing poor, highly thought of Zach Wilson is benched for a 5th rounder, another highly drafted Mac Jones getting out played by a late rounder and was benched this year for him, cant miss Kyler Murray has looked like a terrible contract and people in AZ calling for Colt McCoy to play, fields is fields and out. Josh Allen was picked 7th, Mahomes, 10th, Watson 12, Jackson late 20s. Is Richardson an intriguing prospect? Absolutely. Is Levis? Absolutely. But if you have a JimmyG, Cousins, Hurts type player, you can win games and win championships. Lets remember Josh Allen has played for a good Bills team, and JimmyG has played in more super bowls in the same time frame. Give me a JimmyG type and a good Defense with good skill positions and trenches any day.

        • BK26

          And then you are closer to being the Colts (everything but the qb and look how long they’ve been treading and it is now falling apart).

          Do you want to bet on Jimmy or Cousins winning more championships than Allen? I absolutely don’t.

          Lawrence always had the aura around him where people didn’t know where his drive was. Wilson was always a very high risk and raw, Kyler looks like he doesn’t know what to do if it isn’t coming easily. Personally I think he’s gone for the MLB within a few years.

          I want to be the Chiefs: have a contingency plan in place for the most important position. Geno to push with all he can until he can’t, and then to have Richardson (Levis as well) to be getting the Mahomes treatment. Look at who beats the middle of the pack players in those big games.

          I want to compete, not blow what is probably the only chance we get at a top end, high upside quarterback. Seattle and Pete are too good at being middling to ever have that chance again. To me, to not get either quarterback is a failure. Time to plan for long term success.

          • Spectator

            Both Josh Allen and Mahomes werent top 5 picks. FYI.

            Wilson was high risk and raw. Richardson has a lot of tools, but he is also very high risk/high reward and raw. Probably wont even have a shot at.

            Levis we wont have a shot at, either, and even though he may be less risky, he is still a risk. He has the tools and is more pro ready, but hasnt exactly been able to show who he really is with that Kentucky offense.

            We are likely going to get at the highest, number 3. Giving us the chance to take Young or Stroud. Thats where we are at. You want us to take either of those, just to take a QB in the top 5?

            No crap, we all want to be the Chiefs with Mahomes and Kelce and have Reid as the coach. You cant believe that Mahomes goes just anywhere and ends up being who he is. Reid had a lot to do with Mahomes. And who in this draft is Mahomes? We have a Herbert type (I think thats who Rob has compared him to) in Levis and an Allen type in Richardson. Then you have an unknown in Young because of his size (but probably closest to mahomes in ability), and a likely bust in Stroud.

            You want to bring up the colts, how about If you are suggesting selling the farm for Richardson or Levis, then we end up like Chargers or worse because our Defense is horrid, and if you give up the farm for a QB, there goes the opportunity to get youth and talent on defense.

            And I continue to question why PC would even entertain drafting a young QB, much less trading the farm for one. He wont be here much longer. Hes not gonna wait (how many years has Allen been in the league without going to the Superbowl?) for a young QB to become legit (if they even do) to reap the benefit of drafting a QB early to be the “future”. Not when he believes that Geno or Lock can be the game manager he needs.

            • BK26

              I mean a top 3 pick isn’t selling the farm. To go with Geno is settling. There is no getting to a championship. You’re corect he’s shown what he is and that’s why he is being called a game manager. You aren’t going to win it all with a game manager. So Geno a year or 2, waste the young talent, and then who? Muddle around more and hope for another game manager? Lock isn’t it.

              And I would much rather be the Chargers than the Colts. The Chargers have the most important position set for the next, 10 years?. Set the offense and throw out mad, hungry, young defenders. Don’t get cute like we have been with the defense. We still have the picks. You have to take the chance or be where we have been for the last however many years.

              Pete, you’re right, I don’t know with Pete. I think he’s too loyal and doesn’t think long term. I’m hoping Schneider is in his ear since we know he was very interested in Allen and Mahomes.

              I’m just tired of not seeing the hope, the REAL hope of being a competitor. I don’t see it with Geno to see something long term.

            • 509 Chris

              Just because the site believes Levi’s and more specifically Richardson are the 2 best, does not believe the entire league will. It’s possible that a team at 2 or 3 thinks if you have to take a guy that needs work anyway Stroud is the better candidate. I just don’t think we should be thinking in absolutes so early, like Seattle can’t yet their hands on the guys we like anyway so f it.

              • Rob Staton

                This is such a weird comment given:

                A.) we NEVER talk in absolutes about these QB’s, I’ve presented my opinions and nothing more

                B.) the mainstream media constantly talk in absolutes about Stroud and Young

        • AlaskaHawk

          Who are the best quarterbacks we know of right now?

          Patrick Mahomes – he’s only won one superbowl. Despite being on a really good team.

          Joe Burrows – is he a one year wonder?

          Allen – yes he looks good and maybe Richardson or Levis will be the next Allen – but he hasn’t got to the superbowl yet.

          Garapollo? Maybe he is experienced enough to take the team to the Superbowl.

          Stafford? Where are they today.

          The only truly great quarterback left is Tom Brady – and he won’t get to the Superbowl without a great defense and a running game.

          • Spectator

            I agree. This is my point. We need to be building a complimentary team with our resources. We have an idea of what Geno can be, a game manager that can have explosive plays. This is exactly what PC wants in his offense.

            Id love Richardson or Levis. Dont get me wrong. But I also want to have a smash mouth complete team that PC can win a championship with. We have pieces in place, and I think we dont waste resources on a QB just because we are in a spot we arent normally in draft wise.

        • Tien

          I understand your point, Spectator, but have Carr, JimmyG, or Cousins won a SB? I’m not saying that picking a QB high is a sure thing (far from it) but if Levis or Richardson can turn out to be a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, I’m all in on drafting them to try to develop them rather than count on building a great OL, running game, and great defense and then hope that my average QB doesn’t screw it up so that we can win the SB. Too many pieces have to be in sync and dominant for an average QB to lead a team to a SB win.

          Why did the Niners give up 3 first round picks to pick Trey Lance even though they already had JimmyG since 2018 and with him even leading the team to the SB? They knew he wasn’t a good bet to win it all in the big game. Lance hasn’t panned out yet but the Niners making that trade tells all of us what Shanahan and Lynch think about JimmyG.

  64. Blitzy the Clown

    Any thoughts on Michigan CB Mike Sainristil?

    A bit on the smaller side and I don’t know how athletic he is.

    But his man coverage skills are mad. That PBU in the end zone to prevent an OSU TD was remarkable.

    • Matt

      First year playing DB too. Great team leader. No idea his draft stock but a guy I’d love to get.

  65. Gaux Hawks

    Bears doing everything they can to secure pick no. 2

    • Gaux Hawks

      Pittsburgh win tonight would be very well received by Seattle

  66. Spectator

    Im not a Udub homer, but I will say that their offense has me intrigued. Penix kind of growing on me, looked to have some moxie. And what about their WR duo of Odunze and McMillan? Both are draft eligible. I really only watched the Apple Cup, so dont know a lot about them. But looking at Odunze, seems to have had a really productive year.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I like em both and I don’t think that makes me a homer. Great production from each.

      McMillan is really sneaky – sneaky quick, sneaky agile, sneaky good hands, sneaky at getting lost in coverage.

      Odunze has that height you like to see, but I prefer McMillan for Seattle, and I think he gets drafted later.

  67. cha

    PC Monday Press Conf

    “Made it through the day, taking a real serious look at making sure we get back on track in the areas we didn’t play well yesterday. Didn’t come out of the bye as sharp as we’d like to. No idea if the bye was the reason. Get right next couple weeks.”

    [q] Confident issues can be fixed? “I don’t have any hesitation in saying we can do that. Clear the stuff that took place. We have the guys to get it done. We’ll get that done.”

    [q] What were the issues you saw on film? “Not as connected as we’d like to be. Gave them runs because we’re doing some stuff in coverage. Those are easily fixed. Get back on track. Two back stuff need better job. Saw quite a bit last game.”

    [q] Pass rush 19 sacks in 4 games, what’s been the issue? “Doing a lot of the same things expecting the same results. Came out the same again, disappointed. Thought we’d get good edge pressure, get guys inside, stunts. They held the football quite a bit, helped them in throwing game. Tie it together, get back on track.”

    [q] Players saying not connected surprised you? “They’re disappointed we’re not doing better. Not as clean as we need to be. Both teams did great job against us. Gotta get back at it.”

    [q] Running game not good? “Struggled on pickups we haven’t in the past. They were able to get penetration. Couldn’t get Ken started as well as we had. Not same case a week ago. All things we know how to do and do well, just gotta get back at it.”

    [q] Geno taking blame for INT good leadership? “Willing to hold himself accountable. Giving direction. Said we’re not sneaking up on anybody, showed some wisdom. Very clear, comfortable accepting responsibility. Great trait.”

    [q] Breakdown on OT TD run? “Hit LOS, ball broke, two deep safeties gotta help us and make the tackle. Coverage situation looking for something.”

    And I just got cut off.

    • bmseattle

      Sounds to me as if we are about to get back on track and get back at it.

  68. pdway

    “Pass rush 19 sacks in 4 games, what’s been the issue? “Doing a lot of the same things expecting the same results. Came out the same again, disappointed. Thought we’d get good edge pressure, get guys inside, stunts. They held the football quite a bit, helped them in throwing game. Tie it together, get back on track.”

    seriously though, wtf has happened to our pass rush? It’s one thing when you’re playing Brady, who gets the ball out so quick, but what happened against the Raiders? They’re not better than SD, they’re probably not better than AZ or NYG – they certainly don’t have the more mobile quarterback. It’s not like we’re missing anyone either. I know the inability to stop the run game is part of it – but Carr had all day most of the time yesterday, don’t really get it….

    • Rob Staton

      I appreciate this is an unlettered way to address the issue — but I think it fits

      It feels like we aren’t playing edge rushers. It feels like within this scheme we have interior bodies up front, trying to push the pocket, and outside linebackers.

      Most games I don’t even watch our DE’s I watch the QB because I don’t feel like my eyes are drawn to anything off the edge, which is a very different feeling to when I watch college football

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