The Seahawks were completely out-thought, out-classed and out-coached on a concerning afternoon in Buffalo.
I said in the week that Kansas City, Pittsburgh and Baltimore would win a game like this. The Seahawks had an opportunity to show they belonged in that tier.
Instead they were hammered in one of the worst games of the Pete Carroll era.
And Carroll in particular should be embarrassed.
They came out flat with no energy and a game plan that was totally unfit for purpose. They gave up 174 yards in the first quarter alone (154 passing). They ended the half with 292 yards (272 passing).
Buffalo were aggressive and took the game to the Seahawks. They exploited Seattle’s massive, glaring weaknesses in pass defense.
The run/pass ratio after their first drive in the second half was 4/31. The Bills mocked Seattle with their play calling — and there was nothing they could do about it.
The Seahawks were passive, low-energy and looked like a team that had absolutely no idea what to do in the face of an onslaught.
No doubt the message after this will be to draw a line under it, move on and not linger on a horrible day.
We don’t have to do that as mere observers though. There was so much wrong about this performance and some serious questions, for once, need to be asked.
All of the off-season fears with the Seahawks were exposed.
The defense is a shambles and it’s clear returning players and band-aids are not going to cure any ills.
Key players are simply not delivering. Bobby Wagner can’t play well once every few weeks to justify an $18m salary. Jamal Adams might only just be returning from injury but can we say with any confidence he justifies the kind of trade outlay usually reserved for a quarterback?
So much was expected of players like Quandre Diggs and Quinton Dunbar. They aren’t delivering.
They spent over $50m in free agency and used three first round picks, a second and a third round pick on this unit during the off-season. How the heck is it as bad as this?
There seems to be two utterly basic plans on defense. All-out blitz or sit back and play zone coverage. It’s not confusing anyone. It’s not challenging anyone. Teams don’t respect Seattle’s defense.
Whatever they do the results always end up being the same — massive yardage conceded and a total reliance on turnovers for stops.
Even when they got into good positions, such as 2nd and 27 early in the second half, they gave up an easy completion to a wide open receiver.
People will point to the seven sacks. Was it a positive? Sure. But the Seahawks were giving up way too many easy passes. A 1st, 2nd or 3rd and long situation wasn’t an issue for Buffalo. Seattle was giving up nine yards per play right until the very end of the game. Forcing a five yard loss only to give up 20 on the next play isn’t going to cut it.
Look at the last quarter. The Seahawks were blitzing constantly. The Bills call a couple of screens and it’s job done.
Out-coached on the key downs.
The stats at the end, as they’ve been all season, are a horror show.
415 passing yards for Josh Allen, nearly 50% third down conversion, 44 points conceded.
There’s a complete reliance on Russell Wilson. Their inability to play anything like complementary defense means he has to force things — like on 4th and 1 when facing a 14-0 hole minutes into the game and he throws a lousy interception (his seventh of the season already). Such as the start of the second half when, under the weight of expectation, he misfires on two throws then coughs up a fumble.
All of his turnovers this year have been astonishingly reckless. That’s not suddenly started happening for no reason.
And look at the ways teams are starting to attack him. You can afford to take risks when on the other side of the ball, you know you’re getting to get your yards and your points. Buffalo knocked Wilson down 16 times today — the highest total in any game this season. That’s not on the O-line. That’s on teams feeling they can be aggressive — usually because the points and yards are flowing.
Seattle has a MVP candidate at quarterback. Yet the defense is so bad, every week they make the opponent’s quarterback look like a MVP candidate too.
The pressure is constantly on Wilson’s shoulders. Not just from an opposition pass rush but by his own team — constricting him, demanding so much from him.
This game is exactly why some of us voiced concerns during the off-season. Nobody thought the Seahawks would be a bad team this year. Not with Wilson at quarterback. Yet there was a very real threat that he could end up propping them up. A very real threat that when they get to the playoffs and play the proper teams — or when they face the likes of the Rams next week or the Cardinals again shortly after — they might lose games because the defense is this inept. This poorly constructed.
With Wilson enjoying the peak years of his career, it’s Seattle’s responsibility to build a team around him to succeed. They don’t need the LOB era defense and Marshawn Lynch. They just need to avoid being terrible in key areas. They’ve created a terrible defense — one that is even worse than last year, despite all the talk of off-season priorities and all of the massive resource used on the unit.
They’ve created a historically bad group. It is going to set records for ineptitude.
It’s not just on the defense though. The Seahawks simply didn’t look ready to play today. From the opening kickoff onwards — they were sloppy, sluggish, slow and unprepared.
Wilson’s off-days seem to be particularly panicky. He has a tendency to get spooked and it happened today. The Seahawks needed a cool head to throw counter punch after counter punch. In Seattle’s two losses he’s turned the ball over seven times. Seven times.
He’s never turned the ball over at this rate. It is not a coincidence. Of course he needs to take the blame for the turnovers. Yet this team is putting an insane amount of pressure on Wilson to cover up so many warts. The offense scored 34 points today. That should be enough to win, even with a couple of mistakes.
I’m not sure simply ‘moving on’ from this is enough. Things aren’t getting better on defense, despite Carroll’s claims that it would happen.
Perhaps a wake up call is required? Maybe they do need to fire Ken Norton Junior? Maybe it’s the kick up the arse the defense needs? Bobby Wagner is hardly playing like he wants to save the man he respects so much.
If nothing else they just need more ideas. They need to ask questions. Being aggressive can’t just mean blitzing like crazy. There simply isn’t any progress.
How can Carroll present this defensive product to the fans, to Wilson, to ownership and say this is what will lead the team to glory?
The Seahawks went into the bye week knowing they were facing the toughest stretch of their season.
They’ve played three games since and they’re 1-2. The win was against a 49ers team we can now clearly see were absolutely hammered by injuries.
With the Rams next, given their recent record against Seattle, that could easily stretch to 1-3.
Reality bites sometimes, I’m afraid.
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I think we need to burn it down to ground.. get high picks, oops we done have picks. Can’t draft for God’s sake. Not much salary cap. What are the options?
The team is still 7-2 and Russ is in his prime. If you want to burn it down then we should trade Russ, Bobby, Lockett and try to get like Trevor and build around the young guys. Tearing it down and rebuilding a contender (or even playoff team) is alot easier said then done imo. Do you remember what it was like with the TJack days? (Except this time with no beast mode)
We can’t do any worse on defense by trading away Bobby, KJ, Reed, Diggs. Jamal not an option I guess since we can’t recoup with this performance. Anyone else walks let them go.
Go for speed and young on defense.
We will still be 7-2 if offense stay the same.
Ah im dumb. 6-2 but you get the point. Were too far in to do a deep rebuild. Jamal adams trade decided that.
From what I’ve seen of Adams so far, including today, the dude can definitely make splash plays on blitz and in run support. But he counters those with coverage whiffs that are very costly.
If we get a couple of high picks out of Adams and Wagner, I’m all for it.
Not interested in how it looks, because we all know how it looks… mindblowingly bad.
If, I mean if Pete Carroll still has any honor and remember the book ‘Always Compete’, there is one absolute thing he should do: Fire KNJ.
But of course he talks the talk all the time, and “Reporters” in Seattle dare not challenge him a little bit.
He would be torn into pieces in NY or Philly years ago.
There are those who would be concerned about the ramifications of firing Norton mid-season. I’d say, what do you have to lose? We are already at rock-bottom defensively. There is no direction to go but up. Ken Norton…you are who we thought you were. A good linebackers coach, but not a d-coordinator. You proved it in Oakland, and you are proving it in a way that nobody in the history of the NFL has proven it. We are looking at an all-time terrible defense. As amazing as our offense has been this year, our defense has been even worse. Pete Carroll really ought to be quiet with the always compete nonsense if he allows Norton (or himself) to continue in a role where they are undermining a team having Super Bowl aspirations. At least our run d is awesome (that’s sarcasm by the way).
That game can be blamed on a lot of people but what the bleep was Dunbar doing all game? Or better yet all season. Is he Cary Williams 2.0?
That’s an insult to Cary Williams. Dunbar has been worse.
You mean giving a 10 yard cushion and then letting the player run right by you is not good? I think this is the worst effort by the secondary I have seen this year.
He was terrible. Not worth resigning to a big-moderate contract.
Dunbar played hurt. That is on Carroll playing him and not even giving him that much help.
He’s not primetime Sherm but most of the times he seemed like the best CB we currently have. That says more about this secondary though, but I’d take him as CB2/3 over Griffin or Flowers
I disagree, he was/has been much worse than those 2. Today he looked like a guy they picked up off the street. Even he looked disgusted with his own play. At some point pride needs take over, but it didn’t.
can call it just an excuse – but I saw Dunbar running on one play, and he could barely sprint. clearly hurt, and trying to make a go of it b/c Shaq is out. obviously, no depth behind those guys – Flowers has been a bad CB all year.
I’ll take flowers over Dunbar
Noticed the same thing with Dunbar. He looked hurt. Hard to believe Neal or Stephens would have played much worse.
Why as observers wouldn’t you just draw a line and chalk this up as a horrible game? That’s exactly what I’m going to do. Why only focus on the negatives week in and week out? I can see why after this game, but this is a consistent theme of this site.
As far as next week there is nothing in this game that makes me feel for sure they will lose next week. As much as you may feel this team is a paper tiger the Rams are more only winning games against the NFC east, and getting smacked by Miami and San Fran who Seattle handled easily.
Because we’ve seen eight weeks of this defense.
This wasn’t a one off.
I could see this loss getting them fired up and wouldn’t be surprised to see them win next week. This was a horrible game and no doubt Wilson will shrug his shoulders and come back and play great. The defense is absurdly bad and soon if not already they will play without confidence, hope. The defense presents no threat to opposing offenses. It’s been that way all season. At the least they should relieve KN jr of play calling, Pete can take over, this allows dear friend Ken to save face somewhat, and they can move on after the season. The defense desperately needs some creativity injected.
Exactly its been a consistent theme with the site. So has the consistent poor defense which is historically bad now
Before this game:
“Why are you so negative, they’re winning games and proving your criticisms don’t matter, talk to me when they actually blow it and give you a reason to complain.”
After this game:
“Why are you so negative, it was just one bad game, they still have a winning record and therefore your criticisms don’t matter.”
The defense play calling, performance, scheme were terrible. To me this is the worst performance of the year. They looked completely mismatched out there. Maybe a coaching change needs to happen.
You would have thought that after it was amply demonstrated that their zone wasn’t working early on–and I mean it was getting ripped to shreds, as if it was a 7 on 7 as Brock said–they would have switched up in some way. And in the second half, they simply traded one kind of predictable defense for another. Some of those blitz calls surprised nobody, with predictable results.
Maybe its time to call Dan Quinn. Your right we still scored 34 points today and Russ played poorly but that should be enough to win. Again, at least Dunlap looking good. We have him signed for next year at a reasonable cost as well.
Rob, I know ive said this like 20 times but we really need a guy like AB. Russells mistakes are more from him trying to force things and be the hero (and making reckless throws) rather than being scared imo.
The team is lacking the short pass game element. We rely only on the run for the short game or occasional screen but without Carson no team is afraid to go all out and rush Wilson. Hopefully we get Carson soon and help Wilson out. Maybe Josh Gordon can help in this area but who knows if he is coming back or is clean from drugs at this point.
On the positive news, its definitely the first “real” loss this season. 12-4 would be the minimum record id expect for this team.
Dan Quinn’s reputation hands in the balance after the debacle in Atlanta.
If Pete Carroll called tomorrow, I wouldn’t even answer the phone. Fancy coming to coach this unit to get things back on track? No thanks.
Plus this late in the season I can’t remember someone bringing in a guy off of the street to run a Defense/offense. It would have to be from within. It would probably just be Pete taking over which is probably not the best spot for him at this stage.
It’s happened more than you think.
Damn. Yeah that makes sense. If you take the job it is likely too big of a task to flip the defense… doesnt make sense for Dan Quinn to do it.
We need some coaching reinforcements asap though. Literally if the defense was at least below average then this team would be great.
Aside from playing well against Jimmy Garbage last week – this may be the worst defense I have ever seen. This isn’t just me talking after a loss. And it’s not “early” in the season anymore. We’re halfway through the year.
I do not blame Norton for how Carroll and Schneider failed him in the off-season and I hate blaming coordinators, but there needs to be some type of shake-up. Someone needs to be held accountable. The GM won’t fire himself, the coach was just extended (he’s safe), so there’s nothing else to do but fire someone who was failed by those two. It’s the only way to light some type of fire to turn things around. Things aren’t just going to change. If you think it can at this point, I’d like you to accept this challenge: Make a wish it on one hand and take a dump and put it in your other hand. Which hand has more in it? The wish does no good.
It’s almost too bad this game wouldn’t have been last week. Maybe there would have been more urgency to get something done on the trade market to help out these horrible DBs and/or add another DL (though sacks wasn’t the problem today).
Spot on post.
Nailed it Booby. Ken is the scapegoat.
Yeah, His defenses with the Raiders were great!
You said this team HAS a MVP candidate at QB. You are wrong. Russell after his performance today has shown nothing of an MVP performance in the past few weeks. He doesn’t deserve anything after today. Play calling or not, o-line play or not. If this were Brady, Manning, they would call out their OC for something better. Russ isn’t there yet.
He’s an MVP candidate. Nobody can deny that. He’s on pace to set a NFL record for TD passes.
He’s no longer the front runner. That’s Mahomes.
Brock Huard had it right when he said it looked like 7-on-7 “target practice” when the Bills had the ball.
Bobby Wagner’s cap hit next year will be $17.15 million unless they cut him or he restructures his contract.
You drafted Brooks. Might be time to move on
There is no way you can have an aging middle linebacker with $17.15 mil cap hit in a year with a declining salary cap and expect to be competitive. Bobby like all the great defensive players on the Super Bowl teams has lost a strep.
He can’t play in a zone scheme in which he has to trail crossing WRs any more. I’m not sure he ever was great at it, but now the sight of him three steps behind a faster crossing receiver is very common.
Of course, that could be as much scheme as anything else, because there aren’t a lot of LBs who can do that well anyway…
Every year there’s one game that I just want to forget about ASAP and move on for my mental health. Hopefully this was that game. It was one of the Ram losses last year. That was hideous performance, a toxic turd they laid. For every positive thing I could there were at least three negatives.
I gotta move on from this one. The stench is too nauseating.
Norton needs to go. Not after another loss, now. That was embarrassing. I am not sure who thought it was a good idea to put so much capital into getting Adams, but he is making a historically bad d worse. The personnel they have are not football players, they are athletes. Manhandled on both sides of the ball, outcoached as well. I normally don’t feel so down after a loss, but the weaknesses this team are so frickin obvious, yet they didn’t try to correct it. It will take a couple of years to try and fix the problems, with no draft capital or resources to fix anything
Hopefully we can find out excited they were to vote!
I hope they ask. I’d like to know where they voted. I’d also like to know if Bobby Wagner could beat a reporter playing tennis or Super Mario Brothers. I want to know how Pete’s feet felt in his shoes, too. As long as they’re asking things we want to know, I hope they ask what the team meal is going to be on the flight home as well. They must be hungry. And I’d like to know how they know that food has been prepared by people who they’re confident won’t giving anyone Covid19.
😂😂😂 ^ this is great
In terms of new players, that goose is cooked.
One thing I can think of is firing Ken Norton Jr and maybe cutting a few players like Dunbar in favor of practice squad guys to light a fire under the defenses’s ass. Send a message “start playing like you give a damn or you’re gone”
I give credit to Buffalo. they’re a good team on both sides of the ball and they never let up.
Defensive playcalling in the 1st half was a puzzler, w Allen cutting us up like that, why wait so long to bring the pressure in whatever way they could? The D actually played pretty decent in the 2nd half – gave up 20 pts, but most of that was on very short fields after RW turnovers. Huge play when they called that illegal contact on Adams (which I thought was light). Dunlap looked good – immediately our best D-lineman, and we actually harassed Allen pretty consistently in the 2nd half.
Ultimately, we dug a hole w our passivity in the 1st half – and when we tried to dig our way out of it – the turnovers put an immediate stop to that hope.
I’m actually not panicked – and while I don’t think we should immediately just forget this game, nor should we forget or minimize the very solid win against the Niners the prior week. I guess we can they were injured – but prior to the game that talk was how hot they were coming off a win against the Rams, and a blowout of the Pats.
RW needs to play like a top-3 QB for us to win, he wasn’t that today. But I give Buffalo their due, they outplayed and outcoached us. Still 6-2, last week’s win was more important than today’s loss.
Well Rob you beat me to a lot of what I had diagnosed. Agree with absolutely everything you said save our o-line’s pass pro, I do believe it was poor today – too many free runs to the QB and just getting pushed back decisively all day. Slow and uninspired team effort. Thoroughly outcoached.
RB’s : Homer just not an nfl caliber runner. Dallas not much better and poor pass blocking. Carson – for everyone saying we need him so badly, yes we do and our offense always suffers when he is out but that’s the problem – he’s out way too often! He hurts our team when he’s out as much as he helps when he’s in.
TE’s better day for the position overall but Olsen was clearly not worth more than 2 million and where’s Dissly today? Seems injuries have taken there till as he’s not gaining the same separation as before. Perhaps he recovers more in time…
D-line again needed blitz to do anything. No interior push whatsoever outside of blitzes. Collier I’m just done with, terrible desperation 1st round pick after getting to ‘smart’ and trading back. That horse collar penalty reeked of a player trying to do something anything at all to make an actual play. Dunlap was certainly a nice addition and shows how poor the rest of our rushers are in just one game fresh off the plane.
LB’s looked slow overall and as we all saw Wagner came back down to earth. He and KJ looked slow. Brooks did’nt show up in any meaningful way and as a first round pick LB when do we expect to see some splash plays out of the guy??
Secondary : where to start. Buffslo’s WR’s were WIDE OPEN all day long – just pathetic! Dunbar, DJ Reed, Diggs were trash, the rest of em not much better. Adams – how is his lack of a defined role affecting the overall play of the secondary? Sure we could use him for sacks help but is it at the cost of chaos for everyone else on the back line? And I won’t even get into the price we paid for a hybrid SS. I believe our secondary is just about as big an issue as our pass rush at this point.
The Bills solidified the de facto way to beat our Hawks today and any team with descents CB’s and pass rush would be wise to follow it closely.
This defense is so predictable as Rob stated.
All out blitz leaving the secondary exposed (fast death) OR
Soft coverage allowing 10-15 yard completions at ease (moderate death)
This team is not a contender without changes.
Surely no future opponents will attempt a game plan similar to the one Buffalo used to simply destroy the Seahawks. Right?
If you’re the head coach or GM of this team, you’re almost forced, at minimum, to make a change at DC to emphasize that what has been seen on the field thus far is unacceptable. Jobs should be at stake – always compete. Remember “always compete”? It was a thing for awhile.
Can the team recoup a couple of high draft picks for Adams? If so, how likely is it that they would waste those picks trading down for more backup LBs and TEs? Pete needs to be held accountable by someone. Right now, the building of this team is questionable, at best.
An all-time franchise QB is a terrible thing to waste.
Unfortunately the Seahawks have been in the least ideal scenario going on several years now. You want to be 1 of 3 teams:
1. Elite team with limited holes. Doesn’t mean every phase is great, but they are all good.
2. A clearly ascending team that can see natural future growth with younger players.
3. A bad team. At the very least you are in prime position to fix things via the draft with higher picks.
The Seahawks are in the worst possible spot. A decent team buoyed by one side of the ball that has hung on to eek into playoffs only to depart early. We now have no draft capital and limited cap space.
What are they going to do? Do you have to get aggressive and blow things up on defense? I really hate to say this, but it would have been better if we were 3-5 with an easy decision to start offloading older players with trade value in order to position ourselves to fix the defense for next year.
Unfortunately and inevitably, we have limited resources and a stubborn coach. I just don’t see any clear path to fixing that side of the ball. And now it’s pretty much clear LJ Collier is a total dud. Jordyn Brooks looks…not very good. Darrel Taylor won’t see the field this year.
Where’s the accountability for utterly disastrous drafting over recent years? Yes, DK was an incredible pick. But that doesn’t “offset” continually blowing high end draft picks on “serviceable” players.
Unfortunately I see things in much the same way. Bad Drafting, over paying players (see Bobby Wagner, Greg Olsen, Jarran Reed etc), and giving up too much in bigger name trades has really diminished our roster for years now.
The only thing I can think of is we completely sell out on offense trying to protect Russ, get him weapons and put up points to win games. Use most all our draft and free agency capitol to prop up the offense(Edwards Helaire might have been nice this year….) and perhaps get lower mid-level free agents to swap out players on defense because how much worse could they be?
Rob – Notice how great the run defense is? They only gave up 34 yards! Teams are scared to run on the Seahawks and are forced to pass. We have offenses right where we want them – 1 dimensional! This defense is so dominant, it can get teams to try to cheat and get penalties and force teams into 2nd and 27 situations. What happens after that 2nd and 27 isn’t important. Just love this run defense. We’re the best! Super Bowl, baby!
all joking aside – the Bills 1st half playcalling was pretty crazy, what was it, something like 28 passes and 2 runs? I don’t blame them a bit the way it was working, but you really never see that kind of ratio in the NFL. Smart game by their coaches all around.
Definitely! They can only do it when a defense is as bad as the Seahawks though. So maddening (and sad).
I’ll add this – games like today – where we got soundly and legitimately beat are why games like the AZ game are maddening. We really pissed that victory away, and you only get so many of those when your margin of error is what it is for us this year.
^ 100% agree. So many things went wrong that AZ game. Played poorly and still like 3 different blown opportunities for Hawks that gave AZ the win. We need those wins. The NFC West is tough as is.
I know a lot of fans enjoy there offensive shoot out each week with 60+ points a game but I personally find it unwatchable. It is like watching Big 12 Texas Tech vs Baylor.
Rob you nailed it with post game review. The Hawks are not a well coached team particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Lack of execution, missed assignments, penalties, poor tacking and blown coverages are more common than anything resembling sound fundamental football. People will blame Norton and rightly so. He has been a disaster at Tom Cable lie levels but ultimately this is Petes defense and they are the worst unit in the league and almost historically bad. Who is holding Pete accountable? Certainly not the media and their endless fluff questions. Definitely not ownership now either after giving him an extension till 2025.
I firmly believe now that unless the Hawks bring in a new DC from outside with a new scheme and play calling that the defense will struggle no matter who they add personnel wise.
Do DC’s get fired midseason?
Sure
Rob had said in the past that it’s easy to blame the DC. Ultimate responsibility lies with the personnel on the field. Score 34 points and get blown out. Enough said. But a new DC with fresh ideas may be a good move.
“The Hawks are not a well coached team particularly on the defensive side of the ball.”
– This statement is irrefutably true yet the “defensive guru” responsible just got a 5-year extension?
I don’t disagree with you, but there is no way a new DC is coming in midseason and putting together a whole new defensive scheme. Even if it wasn’t Pete’s defense that would not happen. All we can hope for is that firing someone fires up the players to do their jobs.
Can we please put the “Let Russ Cook” crap to bed as well. Russ needs a run game and it so blatantly obvious when Carson is out. Without the threat of the run teams can pressure Russ and he gets happy feet and struggles mightily.
One of the things that made Russ so great what that he was conservative when he had to be and did not turn the ball over. With the dawn of “Let Russ Cook” that is out the window.
Hawks need to find a happy medium somewhere in between. Establish the run and protect Russ with more play action while staying aggressive in the pass game.
The coaching staff isn’t intentionally trying to pass the ball every play. The top three running backs are out, it would be foolish to dial up runs to DeeJay Dallas and Travis Homer all the time. When Carson/Penny/Hyde come back, I’d imagine they have more of a balance
That is my point they need a dominant RB! If Carson is hurt why not draft a guy like CEH when you have a chance instead of a backup WIL linebacker.
Russ is much better when he has a run game. That is obvious when he has to drop back 30-40 times and gets pressured he turns the ball over. So don’t put him in those situations.
You would have thought after last years playoff debacle with no run game the front office would have figured that out but with Carson and Penny both injured all off season they address the issue by drafting DJ Dallas who was not even a starter in Miami
That’s the kicker. CEH would have been such a great acquisition. Brooks has looked fine in his snaps, but CEH would take so much pressure off of Russ. And defensive coordinators would have sleepless nights trying to stop Carson, CEH, Penny, Lockett, Metcalf, Russ…
Brooks will replace Wagner and his ~18 million salary.
I’m not sure CEH is what we need. Skill player but we need to either resign Carson or draft a dominant rb in the Carson mold.
No, but they signed Hyde as injury insurance, and now he is injured. You can’t plan to have to play your 4/5th back.
Let’s not get away from the real issue; the defence is terrible. If we lose the game bc of imbalance in pass/run bc of injuries.. I get it. But this was all on the D, and the sad thing is I don’t know the soln. We finally get some decent pressure from an edge (Dunlap), but the secondary is hideous. Without a major change, we are screwed, and what is that change. Fire KNJ…perfect, but how does that fix this year; it doesn’t. Well need an off-season or two to get a new DC and scheme up to speed.
Honestly, like never before, I just watch the games and hope for a win and enjoy the entertainment value. Getting vested and angry in poor play will just ruin ur week.
Please allow people to voice strong opinions and be very annoyed with the Seahawks without the patronising accusations that their week will be ruined because of a football game.
Sorry Rob, meant my week usually gets ruined. It’s how I deal with it in 2020
I love Russ as much as the next diehard Hawks fan – but you can’t give him a total pass today. Defense was swiss cheese awful in the 1st half, but they stiffened in the 2nd half.
We were sort of on our way to getting back into it – RW’s turnovers nixed that. No way around it. He’ll bounce back, he’s one of the best. But he needs to take care of the ball.
After watching Josh Allen carve up the Seahawks today does anyone feel even remotely confident come playoff time that this defense could even slow down any of the QBs they are likely to face (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Murray etc.)
The Hawks have been making guys like Nick Mullins look like pro-bowlers what is it going to look like when they actually play one.
I dont think so unfortunately. I think our team is like the 2018 Chiefs. Were not gonna make it far and will need Russ to be unbelievable to win. The defense will ultimately hold us back.
On the positive side, the Chiefs won the SB in 2019 after adding Clark. We need the defense to step up.
the Chiefs also changed their DC
We were out-played and out-coached. We did get pressure and got home, which was great but with that soft of a zone, they could make up the yardage at leisure. I feel like we really suffered on offense from being one dimensional. The Bill’s hole is their run D. Without Carson (especially) or even Hyde or Penny, we had no way to keep them from pinning their ears back and with their top-5 secondary… toast.
But they got pressure because they blitzed heavily and that came at a major cost.
This defense isnt going to get better. It is what it is. Just trying to stop it from being historically bad should be the plan. Only getting dunlap was not going to suddenly fix it. Seems weird to buy in with adams and not just completely go nuts at the deadline.
My guess, theres no real plan. Especially on defense. You see that when they are tipping there toe in on things but havent made the escruciating decisions like moving vets or benching underperformances or firings. Until pete makes some hard calls and hold some to account then this isnt changing.
On offense, you need carson. Dont care about his injury history, sign him for the difference maker he is. Russ is off when he isnt there. Ive done with this mvp talk since vikes game. This is short selling the point that hes simply just throwing more. But its sacrificing the team philosophy, which is what were forced to do this year.
Pete and john need to strip the cupboard bare next season on defense. I dont care what unpopular decisions have to be made. This is straight garbage D. Hell even philosophy change should be talked about.
Carson is too injury prone to be a must re-sign. If you could get him at a mid tier price and limit his carries pretty strongly then ok but he’s only going to get older and even more injury prone so I just can’t trust in him for a bigger long term contract.
100% agree. He is a great player but far too unreliable. Has missed games every year of his career due to injury. There’s a track record for him and also other RBs who get the big 2nd contract.
Carsons only worth resigning if its a fair deal. As a player though he should take the biggest offer he can get in the market while he can in case he suffers any more serious injuries.
It might be time by next offseason to start over from square 1 on defense. Who is really worth keeping on this defense at this point? The only players they can’t get rid of is Collier, Taylor, and Brooks (due to guaranteed money). Other than that, everyone else is fair game.
For sure. The unit needs blowing up.
Agree 100% and it starts with Pete brining in a new DC and giving him control to install his own scheme and defence play calling.
I would be looking to trade Bobby and Adams to try and recoup some draft capitals as neither is worth anything close to the top of the market $ they either earn or want,
Rebuild starting with a dominant DL and then add speed and youth behind them. That is my dream but has almost a zero percent chance of happening, They will keep Bobby as he gets older and slower then overpay Adams to justify the trading of all that draft capital.
Trading Adams is unlikely unless they trade him for much less than they gave up for him. If they could get a 1st and a 2nd they should. I just don’t see how anyone would be willing to do it. It was a horrible trade and I would take it as a huge win if they could get anyone to take him for that this offseason.
Two teams gave up R1 picks for Brandin Cooks and then a third gave up a second. You never know.
The trade for Adams wasn’t great but now that you have him you might as well use him. He’s a young game breaking talent around whom you can build a defense. Look at the way LA is using Jalen Ramsey; that should be the model.
Maybe they need to look at how Kansas City built their defense. They invested $$$ on an Edge (Clark) a n interior pass rush (Jones), and a deep safety (Mathieu) and then developed players for the other 8 positions. Obviously, the FO can’t do all that in one offseason, but at least focus on getting three great players in free agency and then draft 1 or 2 guys who you believe you can develop quickly. But PC’s record on player development is… spotty. This I would think be the order of which players to get first:
1. LEO
2. FS
3. 3T
4. CB
5. MIKE
6. 5T
7. CB #2
8. WILL
9. SS
10. 1T
11. SAM
They probably thought they had three great players starting this season. They probably still think Reed is an interior rushing presence, they most certainly think Bobby is the best middle linebacker yet, and they traded for their third star Adams who is supposed to shore up the back end.
The problem is we don’t know what we got in Adams, he is in the backfield more than in the secondary, maybe if they could leave him out there he would be a contributor to the secondary. Maybe.
Wagner is just getting too old. He needs to be traded if they can get anything for him, but his cap hit would be hard to overcome. So they would have to get good draft picks for him, but do we trust they could do anything with those picks with their record lately.
Reed is what he is. He is a good DT that will occasionally get pressure but should probably paid closer to 6 million that 11 million a year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxVA5_rrbrQ
at the 2:30 mark, it gives you an idea of Adam’s coverage skills
Zone coverage and Man coverage haven’t worked very well this year. So why not try No coverage. Guess that didn’t work very well either.
Well said!
That’s a funny there-
“Perhaps a wake up call is required? Maybe they do need to fire Ken Norton Junior? Maybe it’s the kick up the arse the defense needs?”
This I agree with. I hope performance is the smack in the face PC needs to either replace or demote Norton. This isn’t a off-season issue. If 8 HOF’rs were on this team they would still not be put in position to succeed. KN was bad in Oakland and is bad here. There is plenty of enough talent on defense to not play to a historic level of bad.
Consistently having DB’s 10 and 15 yards in off coverage, blitzing in obvious screen situations is maddening to say the least. We can’t properly evaluate the players on defense until he’s replaced.
Demote KN to LB coach and bring Quinn to be DC. They should also bring back Richard to be the passing game coordinator and then you might have something.
There won’t be any demoting. When Ken goes, you’re going to need to fire him.
And we need to get off the idea of Dan Quinn being the answer. Look at Atlanta when he was in charge. Garbage.
But being HC and DC are entirely different things. Just like being position coach versus DC. KNJ thrived as a position coach just like Richard but being DC’s weren’t their strong suits. Game planning and play calling are entirely different monsters and they were not up to the task. But as a group with Quin at the head the defense was historic.
DQ proved he can be a good DC, something KNJ hasn’t for all of his time Oakland Seattle. It’s time to can him and I do hope DQ answers the call. It’s his best opportunity in a system he’s familiar with to get another look at a HC position in the near future.
No.
Dan Quinn proved he could be a good defensive coordinator after inheriting the LOB era Seahawks in 2013. A unit that will remembered as one of the best defensive groups in NFL history.
He doesn’t get to bring them with him back to Seattle.
And when he went to run the defense in Atlanta, it was shite.
People need to look beyond the old, tired names.
And don’t forget he had Kris Richard coaching DBs, and Rocky Zero, and Robert Saleh, and a different Dline coach (Wash?) All working well under him. If Quinn came here, he’d be stuck with the same Bozos who turned Adams into a LB and Bobby into a non-entity, and took a fine player in Dunbar and made him look like an UDFA rookie.
Rob I can’t believe you wrote so many articles discussing your concerns about the defense. What is wrong with you. Why are you so negative.
Wait we have the worst defense in football. Ok well in hindsight perhaps the Seattle media and fans should have all been asking the same questions instead of being a bunch of mindless sheep.
We don’t just have the worst defense in the NFL, we are on pace to be the worst defense in the entire 100+ HISTORY of the NFL.
The most telling thing to me: Buffalo didn’t even bother to run. How damning is that? They were so sure they could light us up thru the air. And they were 100% right.
Ugh.
Teams are figuring this out. But its the ones who cant match our offense that will struggle. Imagine what the chiefs, buccs, saints, packers will do to us. Hell the rams should be a fun watch.
Seahawks who played well today:
DK Metcalf
Dunlop and Jarran Reed played well as well.
I would add Carlos Dunlap and Ryan Neil on limited snaps as well. But you are right pretty bad from top to bottom.
Dunlap was excellent, Neal played decent, Reed had three sacks. Rough day overall
Dunlap flashed pretty well, actually. That sack he got was of a type we have not seen at all this year.
Had an excellent rep vs the run as well. Proving to be quite the acquisition
Pete said he called the blitz on the screen play. So good we have a HC that thinks he’s a defensive guru.
Agreed that this defense needs a blowup.
1, fire KNJ, get a decent DC
2, owner should force Pete to leave gamecalling to coordinators
3, try to trade Bobby, we need picks and CAP
Then
1, Get a solid lockdown corner from R2 or from FA
2, get a fast EDGE who can win 1-on-1
3, Try to get a future LT (Brown likely have a couple of more years in the tank)
4, Maybe a good TE wouldn’t hurt? Or is it Schotty? It’s crazy how few throws go to TEs near the end zone or on 3rd and 3-5.
It’s going to be really hard with limited CAP and almost no picks. But if they don’t do anything drastic before next year this team might go 7-9, 8-8 for the next couple of years
Tend to agree with all of this. Sad part is no matter how you slice it I don’t think you can rebuke the defense in one season but it certainly needs to start with Pete handing over control of the defense to a new DC from outside the Carrol coaching tree.
Bad call, given how the game had gone to that point. The Bills anticipated it and we got burned.
Blitz on screen call shows Pete’s lack of trust in his DC which again was a result of DC’s 8 weeks of performance. We need someone who can bring something to the table and question Pete when necessary.
True, PC did call for a blitz but maybe not that blitz. Just like PC called for a pass n the 2014 SB but maybe not that pass. Coordinators get instructions from HC’s all the time but the play call usually falls on the OC/DC shoulders.
Bevell could’ve easily called (with instruction) an out breaking pass route vs an in cutting…same with KNJ, he could’ve blitzed 5 and not 6 or instructed Bobby to say bail when he saw Trips. The nuances matter and KNJ doesn’t have feel or enough situational instruction to mandate to his players.
Serious question. Is this team better on defense with Ryan Neal at Safety and using Bobby as the primary blitzer or when Jamal Adams plays?
Hate to say it, but Neal, Bobby and the cap space.
Think we need more games to tell. The only explanation to rule out is that Buffalo is a legit team. If Hawks do this poorly again with Jamal facing a poor team then thats your answer.
Grading my watch points
Offense: Improve your situational football.
Grade: D-
The defense was putrid and put the offense behind the dime before they even got going. That said, even as badly as the defense played, there were chances to mitigate the disaster and pull out another nail biting magical win but the offense wasn’t up to the task.
At times there were simple first down conversion throws executed beautifully. At others, the calls had you scratching your head. 3rd and 6 throws to the sideline that require a very high degree of accuracy? Deep heaves to Swain and Lockett that required some magic to complete? The 4th and 1 call where RW basically rolled and only had one option?
It might be time for the Seahawks to take RW back to school and work on his play reads and what he’s checking into. Feels like the bombing success of the first few games has emboldened them to ignore having a solid, fundamentally sound package of plays.
Defense: Get off the field on 3rd down.
Grade: F
Buffalo had 18 first downs in the first half, and were 3 for 5 on 3rd downs. So basically they did all their damage on first and second down, which was the Seahawks’ homework assignment. Buffalo ended up (unbelievably) 5-12 on 3rd downs. But it didn’t matter. The offense could do and call whatever they wanted. What were the Seahawks doing, letting a banged up Dunbar stay in the game for so long? How do you have your DBs giving receivers 10 yard cushions and then allow them to catch the ball and run free for so many
What’s sad is the LB’s and DB’s wasted a pretty good day of pass rushing. If the pass rush didn’t get to Allen, he had open receivers all day.
Frustrate Josh Allen.
Grade: D-
They sacked and pressured him. But they had no answer defensively if they didn’t bring him down. If he managed to shift his spot in the pocket and stay upright he had opportunities all day.
Integrate (or reintegrate) all the activated defenders as seamlessly as possible.
Grade: D+
Dunlap was a real bright spot on his first day in a Seahawks uniform. He kept his edge at times, pressured the QB at times, and proved to be a very good addition.
Jamal Adams however, was pure Jekyl and Hyde. Yes he had 1.5 sacks but showed zero spatial field awareness during this game. As a rusher, he saw Allen winding up to throw and he had no chance to get at him. But instead of quick stepping into the throwing lane and getting his hands up, he cuts to the opposite route and gives Allen a clean throw. On a crucial 3rd down play, the pass rush has done it’s job and Allen is running or his life to the right, looking for a receiver. Adams inexplicably cuts to the LEFT side of the field, opening up the perfect throwing lane to convert. Crucial 3rd down penalty. Casually letting Stephon Diggs have a free release at the line on a crucial 3rd down. Awful, awful performance.
Folks have a tendency to focus on one problem or solution. A single player/position, a single coach, whatever. But, you eat an elephant one bite at a time so need to start somewhere. It ain’t gonna be Pete, he just got a new contract extension. But it’s up to him to fix what he’s gotten wrong so far, and the options mid season aren’t very promising. What are his choices right now for defensive coaching help? Quinn and Richard are sitting on their couches. That get anyone excited? The next half season gonna be a long one if there isn’t some fix. I don’t know who Pete relies on to break down “film” on the opposing team to construct the game plan. My suggestion is we start there because this team, especially when against a well coached team with okay or better players, seems very unprepared as they did today. While different in the details, in a broad sense, Les Frasier must have zeroed in on how Vance Joseph played Russ and company. Today was very much like the Cardinal game with pressure, pressure, pressure. And the result was very similar. Russ looked the worse for it, not to mention the guys around him. Prep means something, and doing it well improves the chances of attacking the weakness(s) of the opponent. The Seahawks really seem to suck at that. Sometimes they make some halftime changes that work……..for awhile. But against the better coached teams that fizzles out in a hurry. Making good adjustments on the fly is a serious weakness. We aren’t going to be able to make many changes in player personnel for the rest of the season, we’re pretty much stuck with what we got and hope for the best health wise. But Pete needs to figure out how to better scout the opponents and formulate a game plan that copes better than has been done so far. And they need to put what players they are stuck with in the best position to succeed that is possible. The folks making those decisions right now aren’t serving Pete well and he should fix it if he wants to be an effective leader/manager.
Couldn’t agree more! I feel we are just stuck with the scheme and personnel we have for the season now. The only real hope could be in buffering the Defensive staff to allow for better adjustments and game preparation, in addition to extra coaches to try to coach up players into roles they can succeed at.
I was excited with the Jamal acquisition and what he could do for us. The more I see him, he is just not a scheme fit for us; we were better with McD at SS. Don’t get me wrong, he’s an athlete, just not the fit his new contract will command. The question is, do you change the scheme to suit him OR trade him at a lose and walk away.
Legit question. Is Kyler Murray already the scariest QB in football not named Pat Mahomes?
Going to be leading the NFC West in an hour.
May be next week. Just lost in OT.
You’re right. Premature on my behalf. Kyler was roasting Miami when I typed that but fair play to the Dolphins. They’re extremely well coached.
We can’t say that about our team, sadly.
You’re right about the Dolphins. They are a team on the rise. Very well coached and play tough nose football. How we used to play. Our D under KNJ is pretty pathetic, similar to his D in Oakland. Today, after having some success in second half by bringing pressure the Bills quickly adjusted by mixing in screens and quick routes and burned our pressure We had little answer to that. Why can other teams make adjustments on the fly and we can’t?
Was just having a similar thought. How many QB’s would you now say are better than him?
RW, Mahomes – – – is that it? I think he’s better than Lamar. Rodgers and Brady are at the tail end of things.
Man is he going to be a problem ….
Anyone predict that the Cowboys would be kicking the crap out of the Steelers physically after 3 Quarters with Gilbert at QB? NFL is crazy.
Another great game for the $7 million dollar wonder.
Greg Olsen
2 catches, 13 yards.
What a waste of money.
It’s entirely possible that Brandon Shell of all people was their best veteran acquisition at this point.
he’s been a huge plus this year.
Olsen a real disappointment, I thought he be good for a 50/600/7 type season. He’s not getting anywhere near that.
Jamal Adams was not worth an extra first round pick, a third and a player compared to the trade compensation for Minkah Fitzpatrick.
The trade made 0 sense. Then the amount of draft capital only made it worse
100% agreed. Hawks overpaid. No way around that.
This.
If they were able to get a first for Adams, you’d have to hope they’d do that. Cut losses, move on.
Seahawks are a bit…..sentimental, need to know when to make the harsh cuts. This coming off season is hopefully a blood letting.
To Rob’s point of letting KNJ go: Brian Schneider left, under semi mysterious circumstances, right as the season was starting, and the unit has been significantly improved. The talent level of D isn’t great/good, but it’s not league worst.
These guys didn’t even try to run the football today,” Carroll said, via NBC Sports Northwest’s Joe Fann. “We didn’t expect that to happen. We didn’t think they would totally abandon the running game. We had a real nice plan for how they were gonna run it. We have to be able to adapt better.”
WE have to be able to adapt!?!? You mean, Pete, need to adapt. It’s your team, your hand-picked DC and OC… Take responsibility, please.
And this one is a real ‘barnburner’: ‘We didn’t think they would totally abandon the running game’. After the first drive you should have hit Plan B. Apparently there wasn’t a Plan B. That’s on Carroll for not at least anticipating th possibility.
It’s forgotten now, but last season after the N.O. beat down they took (with Teddy in relief to boot), Pete said they were “surprised” at how good Kamara was. Really?!? Goes to my thoughts above on poor preparation.
Jesus I’d forgotten about that.
He actually said he was surprised how explosive he was. Anyone who watched the combine that year knew he was explosive.
After ‘You mean’ ‘you’ should be inserted
I refuse to believe that the defence has the worst talent in the nfl, the 49ers who have been ravaged by injuries this year are still playing good defence. The Chiefs defence were horrible in 2018, changed their defensive coordinator (plus Clark and Matthieu) and won the super bowl. To me it’s obvious it’s time to relieve Norton of his duties if there is any chance to salvage this season.
are the Niners stilll playing good defense?
We put 37 on them last week, and then GB put up 34 on Thurs; a few weeks earlier, Miami scored 43 against them.
Not a defense of our D, of course.
i think their offence playing poorly have affected their defence as well, also they might be giving up, our defence looks like they don’t believe in the scheme
SF defense is decimated. They are missing big time players like Bosa, Ford, Sherman, Tartt, Williams, etc.
this cards/fins game is a blast. Murray is Murray, and Tua has got some shake himself. He’s been elusive in the pocket and the open field too. super entertaining. It’s a new breed of QB in the NFL these days ….
Must be nice. They yet again shoved the Dallas Cowpukes up my viewing ass.
I honestly don’t know how you effectively defend against Murray ….
Possible that Pete called that blitz that got destroyed by the screen as he said he did, but keep in mind it’s also possible he fell on the sword for Norton knowing full well the heat is increasing on him.
I thought that too. Believe this defence needs a fresh set of eyes and ideas. Norton has to go.
Postgame Press Conf w PC
“Had a really hard time in the first half getting started on offense and defense. They made it look easy. Unusual FB game in that regard. We just don’t turn over the FB like that but they capitalized and made us pay. Really disappointed we didn’t finish right. Back to work and get going. Have to bounce and get back on track.”
[joe fann] Dunbar? “Tough day, playing on a sore knee. We had to take him out.”
[joe fann] Why not sooner? “Not under these circumstances, we needed him to play. Needed to help him more. Some stuff hung out to play by himself.”
[curtis crab] 7 sacks, defensive performance overall? “Gave them some stuff wiht missed play. Expected to play much better than we did. Run after catch bad. Did not plan to play off, looked like we did. Such an out of character game, didn’t look like us.”
[art thiel] RW sacked 5x what Buffalo did? “Whole variety of things we could have done better. Playing from behind the whole time and they took advantage.”
[ben arthur] Defensive issues whole season, what gives you hope? “all kinds of things. Get back, watch the film, see what everyone looks like. First chance to see a few guys. Expected more of a boost than we did get. I don’t think it was those guys. Just think it was the way we executed today, gave them a lot of easy stuff. Had to change and we did got after the QB but not enough. He (Allen) did a great job moving around out there. First half every time he moved made first down. Didn’t disrupt him like we needed to. What gives me hope? We’re gonna get better, gonna do better. A lot of guys played for the first time together, need to improve ourselves in a lot of ways.”
[jackie] Dunlap & Adams impressions? “Both played hard, need to look at film. Brights spots. A lot of plays for Jamal after 4 weeks off, bounce back. Just need to make it come together much better than that.”
[bob condotta] DAllas out? “See what we have in Homer and give Alex (collins) some shots.”
[gregg bell] Blitzing and not balance? “Can’t answer the question, I would say we weren’t good enough, effective enough. Found a way to be effective rushing the passer, the other stuff wasn’t as effective. I may have contributed a call they hit the screen on, didn’t work out. Dunbar sucked it up in a way you probably don’t recognize. Struggling, didn’t help him enough.”
[gregg] Why keep contract extension quiet? “Never talked about contract extensions. Gesture from Jody Allen, been in works for a long time, before all issues. Didn’t feel like it was something needed to be talked about.”
[gregg] Coach until 74? “I’m rolling. 5 year plan.”
[brady] Other injuries? “KJ, DJ Reed, Mone ankles for all. Run on ankles today. Don’t know yet, 3 guys sprained ankles.”
[john boyle] Message get back on track? “Guys didn’t run, didn’t think they would abandon run game, had a real nice plan to stop the run. Need to adjust faster. Turnovers, they scored on them. Doesn’t help. A lot of football ahead of us. Hang together, not point fingers, call anyone out. One week at a time, bounce back this week. Rams focus as soon as we get on the plane.”
[maz veda] Guys coming back, a week to get back into game? “A month since Jamal played last. He’ll get better. Busted his butt. He may have played a great game, I won’t know until I look at film. Carlos just showed up. Growing pains, kicking the rust off, I was hoping we’d play through. Communicate, focus get tight, taking some time. You guys – I don’t know – you guys are what you are right now, we’re gonna make some really good moves here, and make progress and get back on track and get going. Offense get together too. Won’t stop fighting.”
[curtis crab] Reed? “Didn’t see him on injury list. Tough as they come. Glad he got numbers today. True leader on this FB team. Glad he does well, good for him.”
[michael shawn] You called the blitz? “Years been involved. Don’t know how many, just an ongoing conversation. Been doing that for years.”
“Out of character game. Didn’t look like us”.
Um no Pete, it looked like what we’ve seen all year save for 3 quarters last week against a crippled Jimmy G.
Jamal “may have played a great game”
Uh no Pete, no he didn’t. Looked like a high school kid in coverage.
Pete did the “let me look at the tape” to sidestep the question.
Then when he’s asked tomorrow “well you looked at the tape, what did you see?” and he’ll sidestep it again. And by Wednesday we’re back to questions about COVID.
Not good enough.
I wondered if the Bills, being familiar with Adams, would have a plan for taking advantage of him.
How can you “always compete” if no one is held accountable for anything?
This management and coaches have too much job security that require someone to get fire in order to turn this franchise around.
Accountability is vital in every industry.
There doesn’t seem to be any applied in Seattle. Not from the owner, the media or most of the fans.
Kinda sucks we did just pay the Jets for a glorified 4th blitzing linebacker.
Sadly, that’s exactly what he is.
Who apparently has felt comfortable teasing DK Metcalf that he needs to score 2 TDs a game or he’s not contributing.
I know what my response would be to that if I was DK.
(But it would sound better in my Yorkshire accent)
That’s pretty much it. The fact we were deep at Linebacker and Safety before the trade makes it even more confusing. Let’s give up the farm for something we don’t need. Screw fixing the defensive line and Pass Rush..
This team is a shell of what they should be, like many of their teams in the recent pass. Russ, DK and Lockett have carried this team and covered a lot of weaknesses. The major weaknesses have been known and discussed throughout the offseason and still haven’t been adequately addressed and will most likely derail not only this season but the next as well due to the draft choices surrendered. This is a franchise that too often makes bad decisions that are too often made worse by the band aids used to fix them. They are wasting the prime years of a hall of fame quarterback by not having any kind of consistent roster construction philosophy. If someone can identify what their philosophy is, please let me know. If we as fans could clearly see the weakness of the defense, why were the people in charge not able to address it or feel it wasn’t important?
I think this front office suffers from analysis paralysis and gets lost in identifying what needs to be done. I think this coaching staff is too concerned with loyalty to their coaching staff and players and is slow at making the in-game an in-season adjustments necessary. It may be what got you there and what you think is important but if it stops working and you don’t adjust, you end up with a team that has some good moments throughout the year but is easily bounced from the playoffs by coaching staffs that do adjust. As fans, we need to expect more and the reporters that cover this team need to worry less about keeping good relationships with Pete and John and be more concerned with asking the tough questions and following up to get past the generic non-answer answers.
The instant reaction podcast is now live at the top of the article and on my YouTube channel.
I didn’t hold back.
I listened to the end. It was cathartic—frankly the best Seahawks related experience today.
Thanks Mark
I listened to the end!
You’re a good man Gerry
The Dolphins should be everyone’s second favourite team.
Beat the Rams, Niners and Cards.
Lost to Seattle.
They did us a solid!!! Somehow still first in the nfc west
Couldn’t agree more on that one. Very pleasant surprise today by Miami
Rob, at this point, it’s clear the scheme coordination and coaching decisions are just as big of a problem if not more so than personnel.
Personnel decisions made in March onwards will always be the biggest problem. The construction of this defense is indefensible.
But yes, now that they’ve got the parts that they have, after eight weeks they haven’t done a sausage to make the most of what is actually out there.
I totally agree that they screwed the pooch in regards to roster construction and cap management, but we have enough talent out there, Diggs, Wagner, Wright, Adams, Dunlap, Reed… that professional football coaches should be able to draw up SOME sort of game plan that results in something better than record setting bad numbers.
I agree.
yeah – I agree as well. whatever that defensive scheme was that they were playing in the first half – they needed to adjust out of it MUCH more quickly once we went down 14-0 and the Bills were doing whatever they wanted. that hole, along w Russ’ turnovers, doomed things today.
the personnel sure doesn’t seem to be as bad as the result – it’s like the whole is somehow less than the sum of its parts.
MIA bailed us out…
Zane Gonzalez bailed us out.
Beat the lambs nothing else matters
I have a dose of sunshine rough drafted for my Watch Points post for the Rams game.
That article was worse than claiming everything is A-OK.
It was patronizing. Insulting to the fans that deeply care about this team.
Danny can get stuffed.
You’re absolutely right. I resisted calling it patronising and insulting and I should’ve just said it. It basically says you’re an irrational fool for seeing today as anything other than a blip.
Awful. And he’d be the first person to call someone else out for such a wanky take.
The defense is statistically the worst of all time. All. Time. Norton needs to go. His defenses in Oakland were rotten and he’s ruining any chance the seahawks might have of a title this year. Single handedly wasting another prime year of Wilson. If he has any honor or respect for HIMSELF whatsoever he retires tomorrow.
Didn’t read it and you couldn’t pay me to read it either.
Our new podcast, which is now live, is a nice antidote to the crap article IMO.
I can’t. I just can’t say anything good about this game. So I won’t say anything at all.
Carlos Dunlap was a great acquisition. That’s about all I can say with a straight face
Joe Fann seems to be the only Hawks beat reporter with some backbone. He said Carrols comments about the defense were flat out baffling. He is right.
The idea that the defense did not do well because they expected the Bills to run the ball might be one of the stupidest things I have heard an NFL head coach say. Imagine saying that in a city like NY or Philly?
“Joe Fann seems to be the only Hawks beat reporter with some backbone. He said Carrols comments about the defense were flat out baffling. He is right.”
Let’s see a question challenging Carroll’s comment tomorrow.
They probably just wrote it to funnel clicks off all those who will go nuts in the comments/shares etc.
Objectively, this defense IS bad. Even when/if Norton gets fired, he’ll just call up a buddy from USC.
I hope we can get a new owner who is passionate about football. We need organizational accountability, the Jamal adams trade for instance, had us paying a kings ransom for a talented safety but a safety nonetheless.
We had 50 million dollars, draft picks and even a willing Clowney to resign.
Now we have a Jamal adams we will be forced to give 15+ mil a year to resign, limited draft capital and the defense looks worse.
Meanwhile the Steelers have Minkah Fitzpatrick playing lights out for less than half the price.
Pete Carroll “we didn’t think they’d abandon the running game” “we had a good game plan for it(the running game)”
How did you not calculate that they would take advantage of the worst pass defense in the nfl? Haha
You beat me to it brother. But we on the same page.
It was an embarrassing comment by Carroll.
It was Joe Fann who asked the question today early on why he didn’t pull Dunbar earlier in the game since he was clearly affected by it and was the first time I saw Pete a little rattled in a while, he hesitated for a moment before responding but I was glad for the one tough question, at least.
Pete said: “……didn’t think they would abandon run game, had a real nice plan to stop the run”.
Why bother Pete? Your pass D is THE WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL thru 8 games!
Unbelievable.
Seahawks finish 11-5, only because of the NFC East opponents remaining. Likely a first or second round exit in the playoffs. Rinse, repeat.
And after watching today, I’m convinced the Seahawks would be crazy to give Adams the type of contract he’s going to want likely in the 18-20 million a year range. I would not be surprised in the least if they non exclusive franchise tagged him for two seasons. Effectively, it would be a 4 year contract at a fairly reasonable salary. Unless a team gave them two first back.
I wouldn’t even consider a long term for this guy. We gave up TWO firsts, a 3rd and a decent player for as was mentioned above, 4th blitzing LB.
he wasn’t great today – but he’s coming off over a month out. he was pretty damn good pre-injury.
We may not like the price of the acquisition, but that’s water under the bridge at this point, it’s quick to write him off.
He played two and a bit games before injury.
He was very good against Atlanta and poor against New England, then quiet against Dallas.
Now we’ve got this Buffalo game.
It aint great.
Hes a great pass rushing safety Rob. As such, he should not cover…
If that was the plan then we should have just traded for a pass rusher 🤦♂️
Tough game. Everyone outside of Pittsburgh has had a shitty game (GB, TB, NO etc..) but wow this was bad. Lost in it all was that BUF was trying to prove they belonged in the upper crust of the AFC too. They were ready for us and played well.
Someone brought up Russ looking like Peyton Manning vs pressure. I kind of agree. But Manning was bad because he was timing based and when the timing was off he was not athletic enough to buy himself a second chance at the play. The blitz magnifys Russ’ flaws. He is short. Blitzing puts defenders in his face early limiting his view. He also holds on to the ball too long making it even worse. In a way both the offense and defense are fighting against their nature. The defense looks uncomfortable with blitzing so much. They look uncomfortable playing man. Without the run game the play action is a joke. Yet you are still taking deep drops. There needs to be an emphasis on the quick passing game and screens. However this seems to be counter to how Russ is accustomed to playing.
Our friends the dolphins keep buying us time to figure out our woes. Need to make actual improvements in the next few weeks.
The sad part for me is this: This FO did not make a good job in FA, period. We all agree on that. But, we have talent:
Dunlap is a good pass rusher 80+ sacks
J reed is a good 3T
KJ Wright and Wagz are great LB(they may have taken a step down, but still one of the best duos in the game)
Griffin went to pro bowl the past year
Dunbar was a very good corner last season
Adams is a hell of a player, lots of talent, energy, swag
Diggs was very good last year
But somehow this defense cant make anything happen, it is so soft, so flawed, looks so much not well coached. Changes need to be made, based on players talent it should be middle of the road, not the worst in NFL history, changes need to be made. I dont care if its to fire ken, bring back kris richard, dan quinn, pete letting go the play call, or other type of DC, but this defense is not sustainable
This d reminds me of early days when Pete Carroll was the head coach of N.Y. Jets.
It’s a clueless defense.
Constantly torn between blitzing and a soft zone.
Constantly reacting or just being passive. It’s never consistently in attack mode.
Rams coming off a bye. Seahawks will score 40 points next week and lose.
I’ve said it a few times and I will repeat again here before I go to bed.
Pete Carroll needs to become a figurehead. The culture setter, the leader, the Head Coach.
He needs to appoint in the off-season an experienced defensive coach — from outside of his coaching tee — to come and run the defense.
That will be a hugely painful decision for Carroll to make but he has no choice. The defense is getting worse and worse and worse every year.
Yes. Exactly. If he doesn’t, he may have to be fired and paid out of his stupid new contract. Not hiring young upcomers, and letting all the young homegrown coaches leave will be a big part of his legacy.
I’m all for it too but I can tell you unless Jody sells in a much shorter time frame than expected and a new owner gets antsy fast (never a good thing), Pete will not be fired.
As several people including Rob said above, there at present and for the foreseeable future will be no accountability for Pete Carroll within the organization.
Looks like the Seahawks defense flew to Florida after the game and donned Tampa Bay uniforms tonight. 21-0 Saints in the 2nd quarter.
I think Paul Allen would have made the call to remove Ken Norton by now.
Watching this TB/NO game, i keep thinking about how important scheme and coaching are, over talent. TB might have the most defensive talent in the league, next to, possibly, Pitt, but the coaching doesn’t match it. I think that Seattle has some talent, at least middle of the league, overall, (other than the worst defensive line) but the scheme doesn’t fit the talent. Thoughts?
With our remaining schedule we could easily go 13-3 and still not be any good. Even if we get the No.1 seed, we currently look like a team that will just hit a brick wall against any team that is reasonably competent. I wouldn’t like to play the Vikings again, for example! There is a route to improvement if Carson comes back and the defense gets it together, but it has a long way to go. Fortunately we do have a soft enough schedule to get it right.
Hot take: Wilson’s worst performances are coming when the QB opposite him is a challenger for the MVP front-runner – he is getting psyched out be focusing too much on that. By losing to Murray and Allen I think he has blown that anyway and can hopefully get back to just finding ways to win, instead of turn the ball over.
Earnest question: did Adams play coverage as a Jet? Was he any good?
I stayed to the end! Looked like Robbie had an unhappy camper somewhere in the house!
Every game from here on out will be a test.
Test of the personnel available.
Test of the coaching staff to be prepared and ready for anything.
Test of the fan base.
I thought Neal looked pretty good once he found his way onto the field.
The DL actually looked ok for a change. Got some pressures and made Allen move off his mark more than a few times. The backend, SS/FS/CB mesh points were all messed up. Almost like the guys were not playing their assignments (sound football) and doing a little too much freelancing trying to make a play. I guess you call it trust… or lack of trust in your fellow players.
They waited way too long to grab the hook and pull Dunbar. He was obviously hurt after the mid-1st QTR on… couldn’t cover anyone due to lack of mobility.
I want to blame RW for 2 INT and 2 balls on the carpet….. but he also got hit at least 17 times in the game…. the most since 1970 I believe. So, considering that… he still got them 30+ points. I thought the OL played decently overall, but blitz recognition and pick-ups got a C- grade.
Well coached Hawks… when did we hear this last?
This team is lucky they don’t hear the boos raining down
LOL at least the Bucs got destroyed as well. Packers #1 in NFC now?
Many have been calling for the ST coach to he fired for years. I can’t even remember his name right now. He had to bail last second at the start of the year for some reason. ST teams has been much better than years past. No clue if that’s why, we will never know what they would have looked like if he stayed.
It can’t make anything worse to ditch Ken Norton right now. Loyalty to a fault does nobody any good.
Brian Schneider, he had been with PC since the USC days.
Ok, I felt bad about the Seahawks game, then I took a gander at then Bucs/Saints score…..
WTF happened there. 38-3….. total blowout.
I guess better keep an eye on them pesky Saints after all.
It used to be that one thing Pete always had was preparation and getting his teams ready to play. Over the past few years, and especially this year (Cards and yesterday) its becoming all too often Pete is not getting the team to play. No energy, lethargic, unprepared for what the other team will do (lack of self awareness/scouting). I think it’s been one of the biggest things that’s been missing.
Back in the day when Pete barely had any talent, the one thing you could always bank on is that the Hawks would come to play and at least put up a fight and make you earn it. Yesterday is the perfect example of the opposite…wide receivers open with tons of space, no plays on the ball, not sure what to do with the game plan, caught flat footed when and don’t know how to respond when they do the opposite.
Rob,
Who were our top 4 cornerbacks coming into the year? Dunbar, Griffin, Blair, and Umadi. Maybe Flowers could be on that list, maybe.
How many of those top 4 were on the field today? The answer is one and he was severely hobbled by a bad knee that he wasn’t able to get through the game on.
Not even mentioning the complete decimation of that position seemed like a way to prove a point without including extremely relevant facts because they don’t align with your narrative.
And so it begins.
Accuse me of a ‘narrative’ or agenda and try to undermine in order to avoid addressing the points raised. Make it an us versus them situation among fans, rather than a conversation about the team.
Pathetic. And we see right through it.
Shaquill Griffin has played poorly all season. So has Dunbar and Flowers. Griffin was giving up the most yards in the league before his injury. He was being targeted the most too. Dunbar and Flowers weren’t far behind.
The group isn’t good enough. It’s as simple as that.
And yet with those players you claim aren’t good enough, the Hawks were racking up with wins with a bad defense that has been clutch at big moments. There is a big difference between bad and terrible which I concede they were on Sunday.
Taking Blair out of the equation, if you think having at least 2 of our top 3 CB’s on the field and somewhat healthy wouldn’t have made a difference I question your evaluation skills. The CB group is much better when their best players aren’t on the sideline, it’s as simple as that.
Come on Brian.
Is that the best you’ve got? They were ‘wracking up the wins’ so none of the points I’m making on the defense are legitimate? I should’ve just basked in the glory of a victory over the wretched Cowboys?
I can’t believe the way some people have become so butthurt because I anticipated the shit show we’re seeing on defense.
Shaquill Griffin, which some would argue is our best CB, was statistically the worst CB on the team when he has been on the field.
I think at this point, it doesn’t matter which CBs we have on the field. Whether its Griffin, Dunbar or Flowers, some combination of the 3 have all played in every game, in which they all have been torched.
At this point it doesn’t really matter which CBs we have on the field, they are all playing terrible, now its just to which lesser degree of terrible is each one.