Instant reaction: Seahawks in disgraceful loss to Rams

Simply unacceptable. That has to be the review of a game the Seahawks threw away.

Literally threw it away, you could argue.

Everyone knows Pete Carroll wants to run the ball. He mentions it all the time. He’s spent several weeks this season speaking of a desire to ‘get the running game going’. The Seahawks have used two second round picks on running backs in the last two drafts.

So why are they so utterly determined not to run the ball?

The second half of the Rams game was one of the worst examples of game management you’ll see. With the Seahawks leading 16-7, if ever there was a time to run the football this was it. Instead, they started the second half passing on 13/17 offensive snaps. Then Geno Smith got injured. Surely, even if they’d avoided the run to that point, they would turn to it now?

Nope. They continued to throw. Even with a cold backup quarterback on the field. More throws. It was astonishing to witness. At a time when killing the clock against a team who defends the run poorly (and has Aaron Donald rushing the passer) was the key, they refused to just hand the ball off to a highly drafted running back.

Matt Stafford threw an ugly interception on a clumsy looking trick play early in the fourth quarter. It was still 16-7. Surely even the Seahawks couldn’t fail to notice this was now, finally, the time to run? It’s the final quarter of the game. Take time off the clock, if nothing else.

Here’s the sequencing:


The Rams got the ball back and scored a touchdown on a nine-play drive. It’s now 16-14. You’re still winning, with seven minutes left in the game. Seven minutes. So what do the Seahawks do on this drive?

Pass (interception)

The Rams got the ball back, kicked a field goal. That was the end of the scoring.

Second half numbers — 23 pass plays, six runs.

I can’t remember a game being so badly managed during the Pete Carroll era. It’s absolutely incredible. It totally belies the stated identity of the team. They were putting the game on the arm of Drew Lock, the backup quarterback, when all they had to do was run the ball and play for time with a 16-7 lead.

The end numbers were 40 combined throws, with two other plays resulting in sacks. Geno Smith also had a run for -1 yard, a potential pass play. In comparison, Seattle’s running backs had 20 carries in a game they led right up until the end. How?

It was all so obvious too. Here’s what Curtis Allen wrote in his game preview on this blog ahead of the game:

The Packers modelled a game plan the Seahawks should strongly consider in their 20-3 win over the Rams in Week Nine.

What did the Packers do on offense? They ran 38 times and passed 26 times.

They deployed a three-headed monster of Aaron Jones, A.J.Dillon and Emmanuel Wilson and didn’t ask Jordan Love to carry the offense. They got 185 yards on the ground, Love was a nicely efficient 20 for 26 for 228 yards and a sparkling 115 QB rating. They won the time of possession game by nearly 11 minutes and were never seriously challenged.

33 of those 38 carries were provided by the running backs, a number the Seahawks have yet to reach this season, despite the fact that they have a dynamic running back room that now includes Kenny McIntosh.

The Seahawks are running a 40/60 run/pass split so far this season and Geno Smith is nowhere near his 2022 pace in terms of production. A 20 for 26 passing game and a 115 QB rating off the back of a big rushing day would be a blessing for all parties involved.

This isn’t the first time Curtis has written something like this and I’ve highlighted it afterwards. When it’s obvious to everyone that a heavy dose of running is the order of the day — for a team claiming to want to be a running team, with its words and actions — why won’t they do it?

You can only come away from this experience feeling like they’ve lost all sense of what their identity is. I’d say they’re confused and muddled — yet they do the same thing every week. Is this their identity now? If so, why are they spending high picks on running backs? And why is Carroll the coach instead of one of the high-powered, pass-heavy offensive coordinators? If Carroll’s in charge, the least we should expect is his chosen brand of football, right?

Meanwhile, it’s week eleven now and we’re still seeing the same issues week after week.

The offense can look really good for a quarter or two but then totally disappear — grinding to a complete halt, unable to do anything well. They scored three points in the second half. We’ve seen this happen in multiple games this year, not just this occasion where Geno Smith and Ken Walker left the game.

Third downs and red zone work — consistently poor.

The defense cannot create consistent pressure. It’s OK beating up the Giants and other weak opponents. They barely laid a glove on Matt Stafford in the second half, didn’t do anywhere near enough to make his life difficult and once again seemed incapable of stopping the Sean McVay scheme once it started rolling on the final two drives. It feels like there’s no creativity and no ideas when games start to drift.

The Seahawks don’t do anything brilliantly. They’re streaky on both sides of the ball. They’re 6-4 and haven’t even faced the tricky part of their schedule yet.

The worst thing about it is they’ve invested so much in this season to produce this product. They only have $6m in effective cap space at the moment for next year. They can create more, sure, with some painful big-name cuts. But it’s indicative how much they’ve already invested. They’re borrowing on next year’s cap, they’re absolutely all-in on this year. They’ve made their big moves, invested their money. And they’re 6-4 and playing like this.

They’ve also spent their second round pick in 2024. They’re 1-2 since the Leonard Williams trade, a highly aggressive potential 10-game rental. That 1-2 record includes this horrible performance and the beat-down in Baltimore.

Financially and now in terms of their trade stock, the chips have well and truly been thrown into the middle of the table. The Seahawks are going for it. They’re not treating this like year two of a grand build. They are being highly aggressive.

That makes a result and performance like this so much harder to take.

People don’t realise how difficult the 2024 off-season is going to be. They’re going to have to do so much work to create cap space to retain or replace a long list of free agents. That will include some very painful cuts and some starters being allowed to walk.

I’m not exaggerating in saying a mini-reset could be unavoidable. See for yourself, head over to Over the Cap. Look who’s out of contract. Look how little they have to spend. Look how much certain players cost — and what it’ll take to cut them. Consider the depleted draft stock because of their big trade.

They thought they were a serious challenger after that Browns game and that’s why they made the deal with the Giants. Three games later, we can only conclude the following. Either they badly misjudged where this team is, or the people tasked with leading the roster aren’t doing a good enough job.


  1. BrandoK

    I hope this team gets a major overhaul at the end of the year players and coaches especially the HC OC and QB

    • Tony

      F this trash team.

    • Big Mike

      I wish for that too but it’s highly unlikely
      She will not pay someone to not work

      • Lord Snow

        We’re in purgatory held up by Jodi’s decisions. Unable to move unable to improve unable to question the team president or the GM

        • Easy Answers Hard Choices

          Jodi Allen is a business person first and foremost, unlike her brother she has no visceral attachment to the team whatsoever. She re-upped PC for 5 years simply to act as caretaker until franchise is (eventually) sold. Like all NFL franchises, profitability is guaranteed regardless of on-field performance. She would be loathe to fire PC/JS and continue to pay them and hire and pay new coach and GM. I wouldn’t hold my breathe waiting for major changes in front office.

          • Rob Staton

            Jody Allen is not a business person. She’s basically inherited a team from her brother, with instructions on what to do with it. That’s it.

        • Ralphy

          You are right. We are Dipoto’s dream. Winning 54% of the time which is purgatory in the NFLi

          • Pat Russll

            We need new thinking at the top. A head coach who remembers how to win. Drew lock needs to be gone. He had many chances to show his abilities, and he has. Geno can’t play consistently, a good back up, not a starter. Pete Carroll has been ineffective and mediocre at best. We need change. Now.

          • Easy Answers Hard Choices

            You just coined our new catchphrase – we’re being “Dipotoed”!

    • Ben

      This is for the whole thread… Many of us are indeed ready for change on the team.

      Questions on Jody’s decisions or lack thereof, sure go for it. I personally would say she has hardly run the team into the ground with bad decisions (Davis) or cutting costs (Brown) or demanded questionable moves (Tepper), etc but again the status quo has probably run its course. It’s clear the most recent reboot by PCJS had some success and hope behind it, but seems to be faltering for the same (ahem, Pete) reasons, and at the same time involved a tough decision to move on from a franchise icon.

      Calling out Jody’s motivations, no business experience, or lack of involvement, is at best conjecture or just plain wrong.

      She’s been documented to be going to Trailblazers and Seahawks games, holding meetings, signing off on decisions, being involved in drafts etc, despite hit pieces by parties interested in buying the Trailblazers. She clearly was highly integral to running Vulcan going back to the 90s, with at least some nepotism involved.

      That’s just a run of the mill NFL owner though. Again she’s involved in two teams operations, has plenty of decision making level business experience, and cares enough to go to games and cheer on the team.

      Her motivations are definitely unclear. I would agree with anyone saying there’s been a lack of transparency by Jody and it shows that the vacuum invites narratives as far ranging as “she’s only a calculating business person”, “she’s only a nepotism figurehead”, “she’s too cheap”, “she’s too controlling”, etc.

      I personally think it’s just really hard to know at this point if Pete and John are still here for good or bad reasons. It’s fine to call for Pete and/or John to be fired or to get new ownership. I agree with anyone calling on Jody to step up and take more “ownership” of the team and its direction. But I don’t think we have to speculate or disparage to do that.

      • Off Grid Iron

        I might have missed it… but I’ve yet to see anyone point out that we’re gonna draft at about 9th or 10th.

  2. Romeo A57

    I am not in the PNW today and was unable to watch the game. Did anything interesting happen?

    • Sea Mode

      Nope. Just standard, run-of-the-mill PC ball these days: offense stalling completely for entire half and defense coughing up a two-score lead, coupled with tons of penalties and poor clock management in critical moments, all to be glazed over in the press conference with “we were so close” and “just have to clean up a couple things.”

    • Palatypus

      Devon Witherspoon is auditioning for team USA Greco-Roman wrestling. Paris 2024!

  3. Sea Mode

    Run up and spike the ball after that last throw to DK. Would have had plenty of time to run one or even two more plays.

    • pdway

      man ….1000%… damn stupid.

      coaching on this team subpar. Geno did his job when he came in. The way things were going -felt like another 5 yard completion would have happened.

    • 509 Chris

      Ya what the hell was the logic behind that run?

      • Pran

        I guess that was the sequence dad Pete and son were discussing on the sideline before the final drive

      • Simon McInnes

        The theory is a short run makes the the field goal attempt a wee bit easier as well as giving time to run up and spike the ball for the field goal. A pass in field almost certainly means the clock runs out before the officials respot the ball.

    • Beza Michael

      Geno said that the headphone piece in his helmet where he gets the play went out so and clock was running so he just ran a safe play

      • Rob Staton

        Doesn’t pass the smell test

        More likely communication was poor/off and he did what he thought was best (made a mistake)

  4. ElroyNumbers

    2 bad calls against Witherspoon there at the end. He completes a legal tackle. Then Nacua trips pushing off and PI gets called.
    Lock does nothing.
    Geno with gutsy drive to get Myers working range.
    For you to say it’s disgraceful is disingenuous. Enough with your negativity on all things hawks related.
    You hate on Geno yet if he stays healthy we come away with easy win.

    • Pran

      Are you Geno by any chance?

      • pdway

        Geno was gutsy to come in obviously hurting – and he did his part.

        • Elmer

          Lock is supposedly a starter in this league. Talk about gaslighting. He isn’t even a backup that can come in and help win a game.

    • Noah

      You do know you’re allowed to appreciate Geno doing well in that last drive whilst also thinking it was a disgraceful performance, because it was nothing but a disgrace to lose tonight.

      Zero excuse for not putting a game like that to bed. So so poor.

    • Big Mike

      Loser mentality

      • Big Mike

        …blaming the refs

        • 805Hawk

          Blaming the refs is just a lazy take. The refs missed calls on both sides. I specifically remember a blatant facemask on the Seahawks that wasn’t called. Also, if Stafford hits the absolutely wide open RB instead of over throwing him, he’s still running. Terrible D. Maybe if the offense scores more than one TD instead of settling for FGs of 43, 52, and 54 yards, we walk away with it.

        • Hawk Mock

          So, does this make the Stealers righteous victors in your eyes now?

    • Hawkcrazy

      How many 3 and outs did Geno have in this game. He lead the team to 16 points … only 1TD on the first drive. He was gutsy coming back in but he did not play well and Waldron did not help either Geno nor Lock with his play calls. Defense collapse is familiar. Yes bad calls hurt the hawks but Rams had a number of pass drops … not disingenuous at all to say it was a disgraceful loss. The seahawks had 120 yds in penalties that in itself was disgraceful.

    • Gary

      Did you watch this game? Geno’s decision-making as well as the Hawks play-calling was garbage after the beautiful run-pass balance and dominance of the first quarter. Geno was back to being Bad Geno well before his injury and bears his share of the blame for this embarrassing loss. So to say we come away with an easy win if he stays healthy is questionable at best.

    • Simon McInnes

      The offense stalled before Geno got injured. But, as Rob started the article, the play calling was at least as much of the problem as the QB,
      The most frustrating thing for me is the number of times the long third downs end in a dump off pass and reliance on YAC for a first down. The opposing defence jumps on it, because we are never threatening the first down marker. Or are Metcalf, Lockett et al suddenly unable to get open on third down.
      The second most frustrating thing is that what was working best was when using all three tight ends frequently for catching passes. In recent weeks they have been almost anonymus

    • Balint

      Elroy pls, “negativity on all things”…. that’s utter nonsense. One of us is clearly watching a wrong movie my friend.
      Haven’t you read all those articles by Rob gushing about the last 2 draft choices like 100 times?

  5. Curt

    I had to listen to the game on radio. It just seemed like Raible was trying to put lipstick on a pig. This team is so helter skelter. It just felt in the second half they were trying to give the game away.

    • Palatypus

      The only one Steve Raible puts lipstick on is Steve Raible.

  6. pdway

    i’m so fuming….that’s kind of the season …w these next four games we have….winning this was about the only chance to keep the rest of the year interesting. And by the skin of our teeth, we were right there, i’m betting that if we get 5 yards closer, Myers makes the kick. F&*K

  7. Troy

    LOL. McKay owns Petey. Knew it. Called it. Witnessed it. Not surprised. From 6-3 to 6-7, here we come.

    • Troy

      My bad. 6-8.

    • Big Mike

      I called it too. McVay 10-5 against Carroll and 2 of Pete’s wins against joke backups last year

      • Troy

        That’s pretty much Pete’s resume for the last 5 years against the NFL. When has this team had a big win against a good QB in the last 5 years. This year against Detroit. I honestly struggle to remember signature wins. The fact is, this team is plain average. This year will be more of the same. 8-9 or 9-8.

        • Jeff

          They beat the Chiefs four or five years ago on Sunday Night Football.

          • Troy

            In 2018. Ahhh, the memories.

            • Big Mike

              Was that the year Seattle went 12-4 and then got beat on a playoff game by Sean McVay and a broken thumbed Jared Goff at home?
              Regardless, that was some good times.

          • Whit21

            I was at that game.. was awesome to watch .. frustrating thing was seeing how effortless mahomes scrambles..

  8. Joseph

    Jody absolutely has no business running a team. What we’ve seen in the past several years is what we’re going to continue seeing until Jody FINALLY sells the team and Pete’s gone.

    Rob, I love you but with all due respect, I think you’re wrong when you said Pete can win another SB. What we’ve seen from this game let alone the whole season, shows Pete is not gonna win another one. We’re seeing the same crap from them for years and years and I’m sick of it.

    • Pran

      Pete is our Jeff Fisher

      • Romeo A57

        Pete “9 and 8” Carroll?

    • Sea Mode

      Unfortunately, Pete could sweet-talk anybody.

  9. Don

    Losing this game is actually better for the Hawks in the long run. We are only kidding ourselves if we think the Hawks are actually good enough to go far in the playoffs. The best thing that can happen is to lose all of the remaining games to get a quality QB with a high draft pick, and better prospects in each of the 7 rounds (but no 2nd rd). Think what is best in the long term.

    • Awm

      Hit the nail on the head!

    • Tacmoe

      I completely agree, at this point a 7-10 or 8-9 record has the Hawks picking around 15. This will keep us in the range for Rattler (my current QB draft crush). This loss sucks today but might be the best thing for the team long term.

  10. Troy

    Spitting image of the first game with the Rams. 87 yards of offense in the 2nd Half. This team has no identity whatsoever. They have no killer instinct. And how about being the most penalized team in the NFL again. Tired of watching the same act over and over for the last 5 years.

  11. RMK-LouCityHawk

    I really, really would like for PC to step away gracefully at the end of this season.

    • Big Mike

      Likewise but I’m feeling like that’s highly unlikely

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        I’m not interested in any other debate

        New coach, in 2024 or 2025 at the latest. New coach should be the one selecting QBotF.

        I don’t give a rats ass who PC plays at QB next year, just don’t spend any of the next coaches money please.

        • Big Mike

          You know he will tho as he desperately and pathetically convinces himself they’re just a few tweaks away and one more overpriced vet away. The only way he’s not here thru 2025 is if he steps aside. She will not fire him.

          • RMK-LouCityHawk

            Maybe – not renew contract… That isn’t a firing…

            Bottom Line, every article this week should be focussed on the when of PC stepping away, and the who of his replacement. Or the how for fans to deal…

            • Big Mike

              His contract runs through 2025

              • RMK-LouCityHawk

                I’ve been a fan since the early 1980s, I can take another year if it means he is gone.

                I’m going to be striking up the band this week though, how hot can that seat get?

        • Peter

          This is it.

          I have no interest in a PC team and a new qb.

          Both things need to happen at the same time.

          • RMK-LouCityHawk

            I mean, would I like for a badass QB to be drafted and the Hawks win? Sure.

            This loss was the capper on a season long story though, Pete needs to go.

            And the sooner after the season is done that choice is made, the better for the team.

            • Gary

              This is not a “season-long” story, it’s a decade-long story and we are on endless loop for as long as Pete remains inclined to continue with his vanity project, at the fan’s expense. I am SO tired of this show and have been for years. Whoever said that PC is our Jeff Fisher absolutely nailed it. All any fan wants is hope, and I haven’t had hope with this team in what feels like forever.

  12. Dennis Valdez

    Okay, I don’t comment much but this was embarrassing. At this point anyone that believes this is a playoff team needs to get some therapy. Yes the NFC is weak but we do not know how to win. I want this team to get their asses handed to them the next four weeks to end this bullshit. End this coaching fiasco clean house.

  13. Gross MaToast

    Sorry, but from ownership to GM to coaching staff, the Seahawks are nothing more than a Pete Carroll vanity project. This is not a serious football franchise.

    It’ll get worse before even taking a peek at getting better.

    • Big Mike

      1000% correct

      • Big Mike

        Oh and I might add absolute power corrupts absolutely

  14. BeingZinfull

    Unfortunately, Seahawks coaches seem to have simply bought into the idea that Geno can throw at a volume that is matched by the likes of Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes he can, but more often than not he cannot. Any Seahawks quarterback under Pete Carroll will need a solid ground game, and protection, since the coaches seem incapable of outscheming opponents.

  15. STTBM

    What really pisses me off is Carrol blaming the players for this performance. This team and performance is his baby.

    No DC with experience will work for Carrol. No up and coming OC candidate will either. So we have Hurtt and Waldron instead of Fangio and Steichen.

    But the way they lost is the same as it always is, regardless of coordinators over the last 8 years. On D, linebackers standing still while a receiver crosses right in front or behind them. WRs allowed to run free. Three players (Love, Brooks, Woolen) all looking confused and all three failing to cover 1 guy. No pass rush. Inability to cover screens. Allowing HUGE holes for a slow RB like Freeman to waddle through….

    On O, WRs running straight downfield on third and long. A QB terrified to throw the ball between the hashmarks. Their first pass to a TE was a 2 yarder to Dissly–who dropped it. Noah Fant is a fine receiving YE, but they ignore him. When the game was switching momentum to LA, Carrol had them throw two passes behind the LOS, the 40th time he’s done that, and it’s worked maybe 3 times all year. This set up a stressful third and long where Seattles brilliant kindergarten offense could showcase….outside receivers running straight down the field.

    Nothing changes, because Carrol is micromanaging this team to death, and his D coordinator is utterly incompetent.

    This team is no fun to watch at all. Even Jim Mora’s year was better than this shit-show, because this roster is far better, and it’s being utterly wasted. 20 Coaches in this league would swap rosters in a heartbeat, maybe more. Yet we get this sack of shit product.

    I want Jody to sell this team so bad it hurts. I don’t even care if the new owner moved the team out of state, as long as they keep the mascot and name. Pete Carrol must go. Jody must sell. This is intolerable.

    • Todd

      This is such an idiotic comment. You don’t care if the team gets sold and moved out of state as long as they keep the name?? Doesn’t sound like you’re actually a Seahawks fan. Maybe you should follow a different team. You’d probably be better off “supporting” the Cowboys instead.

      Pete might be part of the problem but he’s definitely not the one calling plays and micromanaging in-game decisions. The fact that you believe he’s making calls on offense is telling of your football IQ. What exactly do you think Shane Waldron is doing all game?

      This legit might be the dumbest comment here today.

  16. Peter

    I tried to take Alaskahawk at heart today and was legitimately stoked at one point Seattle was 3:1 in time of possession with around 55/45 pass run.

    We had the lead til the bitter end doing 40 passes to 21 runs.

    Bull bleep.

    Total bull bleep.

    What utter garbage to lose a game we needed to have before this stretch.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Yes I agree. Geno shows occasional streaks of great play, but he also makes a lot of bone headed decisions. Loved the way he turned up the energy on the last drive, but he just can’t pull off a win. I don’t even care if Pete was calling plays, a quarterback should change the play if they see something that works better. Or improvise. This was a fail.

      Between the numerous penalties and lack of energy in the second half, the whole team failed. With the exception of a few hard working guys like Witherspoon and Brown .

  17. CJ

    “Existing as a Seahawks fan…”

    That said it all Rob. We’re just in purgatory until something changes.

  18. God of Thunder

    McVay is a better coach than PC at the moment. And Rams have some advantages, two stars we cannot match: Stafford and Donald. But with some slightly better D, and slightly better play on offence, this game was ours.

    What was inexcusable was the endless stream of penalties.

    Also inexcusable was the Rams wanting it more. But the penalties thing is a disgrace.

    • Gary

      “At the moment”???


  19. Lord Snow

    I agree with Robbie on this podcast. I am not sold that they are looking at a quarterback in fact I am pretty convinced that it’s Geno Smith. Looking at a rookie quarterback you’re looking three to five years from now. Pete carrol is all about now or next year not the future of the Seahawks. And I think the argument of getting rid of the second rounder means no qb is sound reasoning

    • Peter

      Rob said something that gave me the chills.

      That the FO doesn’t want the qb to be the most important player in the locker room.

      The problem is, the QB good or bad is the most important person with the absolute rarest of situations.

      I hope that the FO really doesn’t think that way because they can all be gone is that’s how they think a team gets built.

      • Rob Staton

        That the FO doesn’t want the qb to be the most important player in the locker room.

        I didn’t actually say that — I said I don’t think they wanted any of the 2023 QB’s to be that.

        I think they’re quite happy or the QB to be very important otherwise they wouldn’t have set records for contracts with Russ

        • Peter

          Thank you for the correction because it gave me a mini stroke.

      • pdway

        they gave Geno a very flexible kind of deal that doesn’t tie their hands for long – that’s the evidence that they’re not thinking he’s the long-term guy. I still believe they would’ve picked a QB if any of the 3 that went in the top-4 had fallen to 5, but it didn’t work out.

        I’d be surprised, and also very disappointed, if they don’t pick a QB in the first two rounds next year (our 1st or a tradedown to high 2nd). definitely ready to have some hope at the position.

    • BK26

      If they draft a guy and he isn’t ready BEFORE year three, then they picked the wrong guy.

  20. BobbyK

    After the first drive, Geno was pretty much Mr. 3-and-out for a majority of the game. Gutsy to come back in to get Myers relatively “close”. Too bad Carroll didn’t care about a more realistic/closer FG attempt.

    Lock looked like a deer in headlights. He didn’t look scared, but he clearly had no confidence in his eyes. That was pretty darn disappointing.

    The Witherspoon PI is one of the most embarassing calls I’ve ever seen.

    We need to find a rookie QB one of these years who can play and ride out that 5-year window by putting a team around him. Enough giving $30 million to a journeyman who isn’t going to lead a team to the promise land and having backups who play scared.

    I know a Pete coached team will always be around .500 but shouldn’t the bar be higher? I know the floor is definitely worse, but the last time I looked teams who are 9-8 win the Super Bowl as much as teams who finish 5-12. Either way you failed the ultimate goal.

    Penalty Pete is unbelievable. How can he historically have such heavily penalized teams?

    The loss sucked, but it really shouldn’t be surprising. What sucks is knowing you’re not good enough but having a coach/GM trade away a future 2nd round pick anyway. Either way you’re not winning the Super Bowl so why not actually have an eye on the future?

    Dumbest play call of the game: On the play Geno got hurt… it was 1st and 10 at the end of the 3rd quarter with a 2-score lead… why the f*(! don’t you run the ball to end the half?

    • Gary

      “Penalty Pete is unbelievable. How can he historically have such heavily penalized teams?”

      The answer to your questions is – coaching. This is on Pete the acclaimed culture builder. He’s a “player’s coach” who encourages their individuality and lets boys be boys etc. which equates to being the most undisciplined team in the league. For proof look no further than Mike Holmgren. Under his coaching the Hawks were among the least penalized teams in the league because it was a point of emphasis and he simply wouldn’t tolerate it. With Coach Holmgren DK’s tantrums and putting himself ahead of the team would have been a thing of the past long ago but Pete refuses to demand discipline and accountability. You know the expression, “The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”? That’s what it comes down to, simply a refusal to address it.

    • STTBM

      To be fair, Lock had Njigba open for a TD down the seam, and missed him because Njigba didn’t run his route right. Lock was pissed, and I don’t blame him. That right there was the game. Game of inches….

      The Personal Foul on Spoon was legit–he body-slammed the guy, which is a penalty. But Gardner of the Jets did same to Diggs of the Bills, no flag. NFL reffing is inexcusably inconsistent, and I believe deliberately so.

      While Carrol could have called a pass instead of a run to set up the final kick–and he should have–the kick was shanked and wouldn’t have been good from five yards closer. Whether it was a bad hold or just a whiffed kick, it was bad from the get-go.

      Waldron and Carrol are at odds: Carrol won’t let him have free reign, and on some drives calls too many runs (lotta 3 and outs). Waldron then overcompensates and passes too much. Bottom line is the offense has no rhythm. Running doesn’t work. Passing doesn’t work. They can’t find a happy medium.

      • Blitzy the Clown

        the kick was shanked and wouldn’t have been good from five yards closer. Whether it was a bad hold or just a whiffed kick, it was bad from the get-go.

        5 yards closer means Myers doesn’t try to push it so hard and it goes through no problem, like the 15 FGs in a row he’d made up to that miss.

        Seattle had numerous opportunities to put this game away, but failed to take advantage of any of them.

      • Tien

        This is a fair take STTBM and I agree with most of it but I’m with Blitzy here on the FG attempt. I think if it was 5 yds shorter, maybe Myers doesn’t feel like he has to kick it a little differently to get the extra distance and maybe, he doesn’t shank it then. We’ll never know but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Myers would have shanked it if it was a little shorter FG.

  21. Palatypus

    Just a few quick updates.

    * Junio QB Graham Mertz has a broken collarbone from last night’s game with a loss to Missouri.

    * Florida State Senior QB Jordan Travis sent a video update from the hospital saying he is “fine.” That might be the drugs talking. So far all we really know is that he broke his ankle.

    I’m glad I didn’t see it.

    * Tulane Senior QB Michael Pratt was sacked for the 100th time in his four-year career and has accepted an invitation to the Senior Bowl.

    How is he not dead? He’s such a pin cushion that they should cast him in a sequel to Hellraiser.

    • Palatypus

      Florida Junior QB Graham Mertz. Doh!

  22. Ishmael

    Business as usual. This isn’t a serious team, and there’s no point pretending they are. Nothing will change until Carroll moves on. Perpetual limbo, too proud to properly rebuild, too stubborn to cede any real control. Another year on the hamster wheel.

    • Troy

      Yep. I am going to enjoy my Thanksgiving and not worry one bit about this game with the Niners. I have now fully accepted what this team is. Same old story 5 years running…

  23. Hawkcrazy

    Rob like many others I will be at the game on Thursday. Is there any chance of you letting us know where your seats are so we can stop by and say hi or do we have to eyeball the entire stadium and just hope to pick you out?

    • Rob Staton

      Happy to, I’ll put something on the blog on the day

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Y’all should get together for a selfie in front of the field and make that the new blog banner photo

  24. Gross MaToast

    I know we’ve had enough of the Pete show, most anyway, but I saw an interesting stat on a QB who may be available in the latter part of Round 1.

    Quinn Ewers 4Q stats:
    516 yards
    5 TDs
    0 ints
    QB rating – 273.11

    4 of the incompletions were allegedly dropped.

    • Gross MaToast

      QB rating – 237.11

      Sorry, my bad.

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Ewers looked great against Iowa freaking State! Not a throwaway game.

      Will Howard showed why he is good and bad at KState.

      Penix had a small magic moment that everyone is salivating over.

      Daniels was on cruise control.

      Cook was fired up.

      Meanwhile Caleb Williams is trying to submarine his draft stock by refusing to speak to the media after losing to UCLA.

      I would love a QBotF, I just don’t trust PC to make the right choice, and the evidence is mounting…

      We need to have a talk about Pete…

      • Jabroni-DC

        I would love a QBotF, I just don’t trust PC to make the right choice, and the evidence is mounting…

        To be fair, they are 1 for 1 in drafting the ‘right’ QBotF. They’ve only tried once. It’s time for another go.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          and that choice almost didn’t happen because PC pushed it by a round

          – An offensive minded HC is needed, couldn’t be more day and night right now.

          • Jabroni-DC

            It worked out pretty well the way it did happen.

            I was ready to drop Pete in 2016 when we let Okung walk & started Fant at LT, completing the demolition of having any semblance of an offensive line. I would welcome his departure concerning our future.

  25. Palatypus

    I like this quarterback class. Usually, the Senior Bowl has a bunch of duds at it. But, one year I saw (and met) Derek Carr. My first time at the game, however, was a great class. Russell Wilson, Ryan Tannehill, and Kirk Cousins all played well. Bandon Weeden also played well.

    I think this year’s class is going to be much better, and I can’t wait to rock my Seahawks Draft Blog T-Shirt and Top Gun hat and tell the Pro Football Focus guys they are a bunch of wankers at the practices.

    Michael Pratt has already committed. Jayden Daniels posted a picture of himself with the hat that comes with the invite. Bo Nix, Michael Penix, Sam Hartman, and Spencer Rattler are all Seniors. We won’t get Jordan Travis due to injury, but because they have opened it up to draft-eligible Juniors, that means Shedeur Sanders, J.J. McCarthy, Carson Beck, Riley Leonard, Tyler Van Dyke, Cam Ward, Taulia Tagavailoa, and many others are eligible for the eight slots.

    Oh, and admission to the Senior Bowl practices…IS FREE !!!

  26. pdway

    for as mid as he is – I’d also say this – if Geno doesn’t get hurt – we win the game today. we had lots of issues, but i felt like we were basically in control when he went down – and Lock looking as deer-in-the-headlights as he did, I think really shifted the game energy for both teams.

    • Rob Staton

      Then don’t put the game on Lock’s arm. Run the ball.

      To me the whole issue of Geno going out is a moot point. They still had control of the game and pissed it away.

      • Palatypus

        Beat me to it.

  27. Rugbylock0914

    Waldron has got to go… There is just waaaaay too much talent on this offence to be so bad…

  28. Tomas

    Pete stated an interest in Adam Gase as OC before hiring Waldron. Pete’s a little crazy. Hope resumes in 2026.

    • Big Mike

      Hope resumes in 2026.

      This, sadly

  29. neil

    You don.t win games with 12 penalties for 130 yards. Being near the top of the penalty list every year has been the hallmark of the Carroll era.

  30. Hawkcrazy

    Unfortunately I think we may be stuck with Pete and his incompetent OC and DC until we get a new owner. Although perhaps Schneider may survive I really wonder if a new owner will want to pick his own coaching staff. Assuming Schneider stays maybe he could pick a new coach but which hot new upcoming coach would want to wade into the Seahawks before knowing who the ownership will be.
    I think our only hope other than new ownership is that Pete retires and Schneider then gets to bring in a new coach although I am concerned he and his staff will be lame ducks pending an ownership change and this will likely decrease the talent pool to pick from.

    • Palatypus

      I see Schneider going back to his luchador days in Tijuana.

    • IHeartTacoma

      Schneider sucks too. It’s a suckfest all the way down.

  31. 805Hawk

    So, with 233 yards, 64.7%, 1 TD, and a 94.4 QBRating, Smith is now further away from hitting his incentives going by Curtis’s breakdown of the averages he needs to maintain for the remainder of the season. Also, may not hit that 9 win number the way this went. Bright side?

    • Peter

      Strange today as much as I give geno grief today feels 100% a coaching disaster.

      He got stuck in an absolute rut. Feels like it’s more important to get guys confidence are whatever than do what is right.

      And what was right today was three TE sets moving the rock on the ground over and over until the game closed.

      Calling 60/40 pass like we’re playing from behind was a fail.

      • Rob Staton

        Calling 60/40 pass like we’re playing from behind was a fail.

        It’s totally unacceptable

        • Big Mike

          And how many weeks has this been said now?

          • Peter

            All of them.

  32. Parallax

    This has been my least favorite year as a Seahawks fan and i go back a ways. To like the Chuck Knox days. I remember when we drafted Cortez Kennedy and how exciting that was. I didn’t grow up with the Seahawks. I first moved to the PNW in 1986 and immediately became a Hawks fan.

    There were some bad teams back in the day. Far less competitive than this one. But I never before felt so hopeless about the next several years with no light on the horizon. The NFL has changed a lot over the years. We just had two great draft classes but the window on getting mileage out of those classes is short. I don’t see us turning things around so I imagine the benefits of having two great classes will slip through our fingers.

    No offense to Pete Carroll. I appreciate what he accomplished in Seattle. But I feel strongly that his time has passed. We need a far more strategic coach.

  33. cha

    I’m remembering the Pittsburgh game, the first game Geno started as the ‘guy’ after RW busted his finger.

    The first half they called pass after pass after pass.

    I’ll never forget they asked Pete on the way in about the game and he made it sound like he was going to grab Waldron by the scruff of his neck and force him to run. They came out blazing on the ground.

    Where’s that Pete?

    • All I see is 12s

      At the same time, Gino is throwing against a Prevent defense.

  34. Ishmael

    This is absolutely conspiracy territory, but I honestly believe the reason we haven’t drafted a QB in the last decade is because Schneider doesn’t want to lose his QB guru status. So much easier waiting for the perfect guy that never comes than taking a few shots and accepting most of them will fail.

    • Rob Staton

      I think he definitely has become risk-averse at QB, feeling like he needs complete conviction on one to draft them. Probably, as you say, because he takes pride in his QB evaluations.

  35. Dubb

    This was disappointing, but not surprising. Pete used to say a perfect offensive game was 25 runs and 25 completions. I don’t see an issue with the completions; but when Dissly and Bobo get more or the same number of completions as Fant, that’s an issue. It’s like the OC feels that it’s critical to get these two guys their touches. If I see Dissly get another 8 yard reception then kicks his leg, I’m going to lose it. The speed of these two guys must keep Defensive Coordinators up at night.

    Thanks for letting me vent for a moment.

  36. jo

    I wasn’t surprised they lost because McVay owns Pete. I have them pegged at 8-9 or 9-8 even though it would be far better for the organization to go 6-11. What I don’t get is why Pete doesn’t run the ball more and why does he think Geno can carry anything without a serious run game and at least a decent defense.

    It’s the same old song and dance it is just so frustrating to know nothing will change until Jodi sells the team and a real housecleaning occurs.

  37. Forrest

    There’s just so much to unpack in this miserable loss.

    Rob, you said you wanted to know what Pete Carroll would say after the season, if he was asked what he could do to improve in the offseason. I don’t have faith that he’s that introspective – because the obvious answer is he could field a more disciplined team. I’m sick of hearing that the half wan’t “clean” or that they “have to clean things up”. Why are things so messy? It’s because there’s a lack of discipline on this team, which comes from the top. Another very obvious answer is clock management.
    Here’s this week’s example of discipline issues in just the first half when we were clicking:

    *Love 46 yard PI (no idea where the ball is)
    *Defense jumping offsides continues (Leonard Williams free play) nearly gives away a 40 yard TD that a wide open Cupp dropped.
    *Woolen PI shoving WR out of bounds near the goal with his back to the ball. Why?
    *Delay of game right after an illegal shift penalty?!? Why doesn’t Pete call TO when we’re obviously not going to get the play off? Contrast that with McVay who does call TO with 12 seconds left in the half to save 5 yards in their red zone (and which leads to a TD on the next play). McVay does the same thing in the second half saving 5 yards for his team. Why are we incapable of this? It’s so basic!

    Can someone please ask Pete if he still wants to “be the bully” in the run game? We haven’t heard this in some time. An obvious follow up would be – how can you be the bully without running the ball? There’s no identity to this offense. At best, it’s finesse. Is that Pete’s playing style?

    When was the last time you felt we had tempo on offense? Not running “up tempo,” just having tempo. Does it ever feel like the offense is grooving for more than a one off drive in the first half? Does it ever feel like there is a game script – a plan that gets executed consistently throughout the game?

    How are 3rd downs so hard for this offense? We go 4/4 on 3rd downs to start the game and then go 0/10?!? How does this happen week after week? It’s a pattern/theme with this team.

    How do you have 12 penalties for 130 yards?!? 130 yards!!!
    We are the #1 most penalized team in the NFL. Tell me that’s not a discipline issue!

    After our dreadful showing in giving up two huge plays last week to RBs catching passes after no defender picked them up, we have the same thing this week, a RB uncovered running down the sideline. Thankfully, the ball was overthrown, but that looked like another 50 yard play due to a blown assignment.

    Where was the pass rush all day? I wouldn’t describe Stafford as a mobile QB. Quite the opposite.

    Is Frank Clark on this team? I haven’t heard his name yet, so I checked PFF. His grade is 36.8? Yikes!

    We had a significant lead and were playing a bad team with their best player (Cupp) sidelined. I was worried that last week’s win would cover a lot of warts. Washington is a bad team that had just lost Chase Young and Montez Sweat. I felt the same way about the Cleveland game – they were without their starting QB and their bell cow RB and the Arizona game – they were without their starting QB and bell cow RB.

    I fear these next four games!

    • Big Mike

      Great post! A long laundry list of why Carroll has needed to go for some time.

      I’ll be shocked if the Hawks don’t go 0-4 coming up.

      • UkAlex6674

        We will go 2-2 and the heroics of the 2 wins will once again paper over a game lime this Rams one.

        Except on here of course!

        But I can see a 49er split and beating the Eagles to give enough (false) hope (again) to make the playoffs (code: sneak in through the back door).

        • Rob Staton

          I can’t see where the two wins are coming from

          • Peter

            I see the eagles maybe.

            Agree with you on the cowboys. As loathe as I am to say it they are the better team right now. Most likely playing for bigger stakes than us at time of kick off.

            Felt that 20-10 AZ win was harder than it needed to be. With Murray ( we can’t contain mobile qbs,) in the desert could be tricky. Titans are just a team right now. We ‘should’ handle them. But we play every team like we trapped in an epic struggle so who knows.

            The steelers. If they are playing for a playoff spot and love an ugly game that could also be tough especially if we are going into that game with a poor record. I see very little heart on this team from enough players.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Depends on which Seahawks squad shows up

            If they get the squad from their recent 1st quarters to play at least a drive or two in the 2nd half, they could pull out 2 wins.

            Big if.

            Also, don’t underestimate the Cowboys’ ability to self sabotage too.

            I’m not hopeful for even 1-3. Not after yesterday. But we have seen them play well enough to beat anyone. Just not consistently enough to beat anyone.

  38. Jordie

    From the 2min warning at the end of the first half – with a 13-0 lead – the hawks were dreadful. Barely able to string passes together, and completely abandoning the run. The D might have been gassed but like Robbie said on the stream the Rams had effectively given up until the seahawks didn’t just open the door, they practically put an arm round them and forced them through!

    Yes the ref’s calls might have been a little off but only the Witherspoon endzone call was really bad. Giving up 130+yards in pens is not helpful!

    Then you see the Vikings – i know they didn’t win and they appear a bit too “gadgety” on both sides of the ball – but they came in to the season with truly dreadful D that now is being schemed excellently (bar one pass) by Flores and on the offence, they are dealing with the loss of the QB and #1 WR. They might not have won last night but they were in it all the way.

  39. WLO333

    I thought Geno actually played well, and shouldn’t shoulder the blame this game. The offense started to look like they might be able to use this game to right the ship. That was my hope, anyway. They had some very creative formations like 1 WR, 1 TE, and 1RB in the backfield. The running lanes opened up, and it looked like we were ready to dominate.

    But something happens seemingly the second half every week, and those running lanes close off. We become predictable and one dimensional. It seems like we not only run less often, but also less effectively as the game wears on. The many penalties today didn’t do ys any favors either.

    I haven’t been very pleased about our TE use this year (and a lot if years actually). Sure we employ 2 and 3 TE sets at times to beef up the running game, but I don’t think we mix them in the passing game enough when we do. It seems like our TEs go long stretches without showing up in the passing game. I also think when we use our TEs more often as weapons in the passing game and to bolster the running game, it forces the LB level to play back on their heels more, weakening the opponents pass rush. I think we should employ that strategy more in those games where we are struggling to protect Geno.

    • Rob Staton

      I thought Geno actually played well, and shouldn’t shoulder the blame this game.

      Has anyone blamed Geno Smith??

  40. L80

    Say goodbye to ” Please help me lift my check” Diggs. What a pathetic display of “playing” he did yesterday. Holy cra[tastic…..It even looked like he was leaving Love on an island most of the game, AND I have never seen such a wide open hole in a zone as the one shown on TV from the field angle.

    Jeezus, this team is a hot mess.

  41. Big Mike

    I asked this question yesterday but I’ll ask it again:
    Can someone explain to me why the Seahawks were blocking the greatest pass rushing defensive tackle of all-time one on one with Phil Haynes?

    • Rob Staton

      It’s because we don’t play Aaron Donald twice a year and don’t really know how good he is plus haven’t had sufficient time to come up with a plan to play him

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Right after someone explains to me what Taylor and Clark were doing out there so much when Hall got maybe 5 or 6 snaps (all impact)…

      Said it to a buddy of mine (fan of an AFC team), this game was a death of 100 bad coaching decisions. That is the killer, this was a coaching failure, and it’s been a failure all season.

      • Big Mike

        It’s been longer than this season tho. Rob’s response on this subject is a perfect example.

      • Forrest

        Same for Dee Eskridge. Why is he on the team? He has zero yards this year, had 58 yards last year and 64 yards in 2021. I get that he’s fast, but I’ve watched poor outcomes on the throws that have gone his way (pick, drops, etc.). Can we please take him off the field and replace his snaps with more Bobo?

  42. Denver Hawker

    Inexcusable is right. The well of excuses has run dry for Pete.

    Look around the league and you’ll find teams winning with inferior talent.

    – Broncos (without any top picks last couple years) have now beat Chiefs, Bills, and Viking consecutively.
    – Vikings are winning without Justin Jefferson and with a journeyman backup QB who didn’t even know the playbook.
    – Steelers, Browns, Colts all with backup level QB play
    – Lions 8-2 with Goff

    Coaching is the variable. Broncos have nearly the same team as last year and look completely different under Peyton. It will take a 2-2 record next 4 games to convince me Pete has what it takes to get to a SB again.

    • Rokas

      To be fair, none of these teams are going anywhere this year.
      Goff played horribly, threw 3 picks, but managed to pull this through at home against poor Bears.
      Steelers and Browns match was pain to watch, but someone had to win.
      Broncos got lucky in the end with Vikings fumbling the ball. I saw a meme that people should apologize to Wilson, but he is not playing well. And that genius in Sean Payton can not scheme anything in the redzone.
      Vikings is as mediocre as they can be, ditto Dobbs.

      Yesterday was as poor of NFL weak in terms of football quality as i remember.

      And that includes Stroud playing horrible and being bailed by his defense, because Murray looks like a waste, and I am very worried they might get a 1st overall pick. We know what that would mean.

      Levis was very very uninspiring, so was Tua.

      Not that it gives us the pass on a huge choke and mind boggling play calling, but i thought that Geno was one of the better QBs yesterday.

      Is it really Carroll to blame for these 150 penalty yards? what should he do? Bench Woolen for the 15th straight “hands to the face”? I am am willing to attribute some of the blame to him, but not all for sure.

      Also it’s a bit of a moot point, since the team won’t be sold until 2025, because it saves 100 mil or so in the deal.

      I know i am repeating myself, but we lost by 1 point, which is exactly what Vegas predicted. It’s not like we lost to some college football team.

      Obviously, it takes a lot of talent to shoot oneself in the foot as much as Seahawks did yesterday. But these things happen from time to time.

      We knew for some time who we are, and to me it does not matter if we are 8-9 or 10-7. Next year we will get rid of bad contracts, convert them into some valuable players, maybe draft a QB and we’ll be fine.

      • Rob Staton

        Levis was very very uninspiring

        In fairness, not sure what people expect. The Titans are a hot mess. He’s 6/2 on TD/INT ratio after four games and the two picks were basically hail mary type moments.

        • Peter

          You knew I had to do it because Will Levis on 2.2 ish million dollars was my guy…

          One pace: ( 17 games)

          3642 yards, 25.5 tds, 8.5 ints

          On an offense that’s basically past their prime Henry and Hopkins.

          I’ll take that high performing rookie stat line for those low rookie dollars every day.

          • Rob Staton

            With a horrendous OL

            Playing Pitt & JAX on the road

            • Rokas

              Fair points, i am rooting for him to succeed, and he is off to a good start, especially considering where he was drafted. I mentioned him in the context, that yesterday was kind of a dreadful day for QBs and offenses in general.

      • Big Mike

        Very unlikely we get rid of all those bad contracts. The Pete Carroll vanity project will make sure Jamal Adam’s returns for yet another year trying to endlessly attempt to justify an unjustifiable trade.

      • BK26

        We lost to a bad team. Again. Even if we won, it would have been BARELY, against a bad team. Again. Penalties, poor basics, guys looking lost, horrible play calling all over. Expensive players being black holes for the team. Another game where they were not ready.

        “We’ll be fine.” Are you sure? If Pete and the coordinators are here? If they cut the wrong guys? Look at who they have doubled and tripled down on.

        And I guess since the team won’t be sold for a few years and Pete won’t get fired, why bring it up, right? Waste of time, no need to talk about it I guess.

        I’m tired of the excuses and the belief that this team and who runs it will just magically fix everything. Same thing said year after year after year after year. We are middling and nothing has changed.

        • Cambs

          NPC franchise.

          • Peter


        • Peter

          This checked out blase “we’ll just do things that we never do and in fact by doing them for half a decade have brought us to this middling team,” energy is not it.

          Rob, Cha, and half the posters here would cut the bad contracts, etc.

          It’s the FO/coach that brought us Diggs getting as much money as the likes of Jeffrey Simmons next year, and Adams on money in line with the Bosa boys, Watt, etc.

          Convert them into valuable players? How? We almost never had valuable additions in FA since the team was great. Pretty sure Reed was the best addition. We paid Love multiples of Ryan Neal for ‘reasons.’

          Maybe draft a qb…..I’m getting chills thinking about Seattle wasting draft picks for a veteran. I like on the podcast Robbie saying he actually doesn’t think Seattle is going to try that hard for a qb. Timelines and all.

          This is not a ‘they won’t draft one,’ comment. But drafting a fourth round scratch ticket type vs. Trying for one feel like different things.

      • Denver Hawker

        This isn’t really a matter of “things happen from time to time” anymore. It’s the same drivel year after year with Pete’s teams. Other coaches are doing more with less.

        Belichick is far more decorated than Pete, and will be run out of town in New England for the current product on the field. Why does Pete always get a pass?

        “Maybe next year” only works when there’s real progress and this team is permanently stuck in the mud with Pete coaching it.

        • Big Mike

          You know why Pete won’t get run out of town. Northwest sports fans are more than content with pretty good. It’s why they still talk about 2001 and 1995 when they talk about the mariners.
          It’s the same reason they call Rob and anyone else who dares to question Carroll a hater.

          • Denver Hawker

            I know those fans, and find them pathetic, but my ire is with the feckless sports media too concerned with preserving their crumbling relevance.

            Pete is the problem, but without any semblance of accountability, he endures. That can only come from media or ownership. The fans are just numbers on a spreadsheet; as long as they attend games and buy jerseys, fans cannot affect change.

            I am a big Pete fan fwiw and want him in the HoF. Half my family are huge USC fans and I have Pete to thank for 2 teams I follow. But I’m also here for the now and the next and Pete ain’t it.

  43. HOUSE

    Serious question… Why didn’t we just do this?

    • Peter

      The only play they needed they just couldn’t find on Waldrons menu.

      • Big Mike

        It was on Bevell’s play sheet tho, but he just ignored it.

  44. jed

    Really good article and discussion. I was too frustrated to listen to the cast last night, but I’ll do that while grinding spreadsheets today.

    This was as bad a coaching job I’ve seen since Hackett vs the Seahawks last year. Funny how that happened after Rob had his video saying Pete can win a SB if x & y & z. Maybe put out a video this week saying he should be fired at the end of the year?

    Geno’s been on the team how many years and calls a run at the end of the game? The end of the first half was equally terrible. Pete may have all the good vibes but at the cost of discipline and football basics.

    On the poor cap space, I just think of dead money as a sunk cost. If a player isn’t worth the salary and you can get an equal player for less and free up room for other players, cut them. It’s a brutal business. I’m fine with cutting Quandre, Jamal, Geno. Sure, they’re all average-ish. Bring them back on an average salary if their egos allow it. Although I’m expecting them to end 8-9 and being on the lower end of average and would be fine with a big reset at the end of this year.

  45. Peter

    Reporting from the front lines of the weirdest fan base.

    As we battled endlessly about the former qb, coach, and everything else, a year of ‘in russ we trust,’ posts…it occurred to me that the best way forward as a fan base was to depart with both Pete and Russ at the same time. For fairly obvious reasons that wasn’t meant to be.

    So last night after Rob, Robbie, and Adam gave us an hour of their time to work through the nonsense I watched a 20 minute video from a prominent talking head. 20 minutes being the norm for a loss. An hour of strutting like a beautiful bird that rhymes with seahawk after a win is the norm btw for this particular post game show I heard something that broke my brain…..

    Jason Myers cost Geno the chance at a great come from behind story for a great player, great teammate, and great person.

    That’s the insight. Come from behind on a game where we had the lead for around 50+ minutes.

    Though I do actually want to win forever for the sake of peoples mental health I almost feel we need a mora with a Whitehurst level qb for a season to get fans back on track.

    This is the seahawks. Not the pete-hawks. Not the fighting Geno’s. I do not give a *blank* about a ‘great’ story for one player above a total team effort.

    The worse part for me was the talking head and I are near enough the same age and the same length of fandom. I can not wrap my mind around how if we future cast a few years our current qb will just be a mostly unremarkable player who once played for our team and instead they are seeing per their own words this season “the most important qb in hawk’s history.”

    With offense ( opposite of respect) until another qb gets us the most wins, most playoffs wins, a ring, and also most return in capital for a young nucleus we need to stop with the delusions of what is legitimately not under center at this time.

    Post script: I do not think this particularly loss is on Geno. This one I’m comfortable ‘making excuses’ with coaching as the reason.

    • cha

      Bob Condotta graded the Coaching in the game as a C and pointed to the final Charbonnet run play call as the biggest problem.

      Like I said late last week, gaslighting.

      Obi-Wan Kenobi “this isn’t the poorly coached Seahawks team you’re looking for”

      • Peter

        Enjoyed the star wars reference to pick up my dull mood.

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      I’m working on something longer…needs some TLC so it doesn’t get bogged down with too much

      This sort of nails it:

      1) Step 1 – Jettison Russ

      2) Step 2 – farewell Pete (and possibly JS).

      The worm is turning on PC after this Rams loss. I keep talking about this season, and people want to cry (this decade), the point in focusing on *this season* is that the excuses are all wearing thin… the talent is very good…

      Both coordinators are to blame? Who hired them? It goes on and the excuses are becoming lame. THE OFFICIALS!!!

      The 9ers game is must win, part of me suspects that PC has spent the last three weeks preparing for the 9ers. A blow out loss at home on Thanksgiving might turn his seat up to nuclear.

      I don’t care about Geno this week, or Taylor, or any player really.

      I grew up in construction, so a lot of my metaphors are from that industry. PC is the problem, your foundation is the problem, the structure is unsound, it doesn’t matter how nice your fooors, fixtures, and paint are…if the structure is unsound, the house cannot stand.

      It doesn’t matter if Geno is the QBotF because the person making that decision is lacking in credibility.

      • Big Mike

        I 100% agree with you except for the part where you say Pete’s seat will get very hot. I don’t believe for 1 second that 60 to 70% of this fan base will turn up the heat on Pete. I don’t believe the media will turn up the heat on Pete. Most importantly, I don’t think it would matter how hot it got cuz she will not fire him. You know that I will happily eat crow if I am wrong.

        • Big Mike

          And in no way what I’m about to say is meant as a dig, all I’m asking is when you post your longer thoughts please explain why you feel the fan base and/or media will make his seat hot and why she will terminate him if that’s the case.

          • RMK-LouCityHawk


            But I don’t want Rob to start charging me by the character.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          From the online commenters, I’d say that the public opinion is turning.

          I think there is a very good likelihood he goes in 2025. It is set up for a graceful departure, and there are signs that he is irritated at not being able to swipe the credit card on 2025 and forward.

          This off-season seems unlikely, but if I were advising PC, I’d tell him to consider it, especially if the team is stronger down the stretch, better to go out the hero than look like Belli in New England.

  46. ShowMeYourHawk

    So… along with draft prognostication, perhaps it’s time for the blog to start reading the tea leaves and busting out the Ouija board to see whom the contenders for our next owners are? This team won’t change a damn thing until Allen has sold the team. She seems easily placated with high fives from PC and JS on draft day.

    I’ve ZERO confidence that Pete and John will draft a QB in the first half of the draft, instead insisting that “all Geno to succeed needs is….”. We may make the move to cut Diggs or Adams, as surely even PC can see that they aren’t getting the return on investment. This team has tried to suture a bleeding gash on the run for the last half decade, instead of taking bed rest and letting the body heal up to gain strength. We needed a full rebuild. They settled for a half-assed “reload.” It’s gotten us nowhere. Unless Pete voluntarily throws in the towel, we’re stuck with this buffoonery in perpetuity.

    SELL and let the future finally arrive.

  47. Blitzy the Clown

    Serious question: when was the last time Quandre Diggs used his arms to wrap up a ball carrier when attempting a tackle, as opposed to just launching himself into the guy and hoping that does the job?

    And how many tackles has he missed because of that?

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Question 1: don’t know, memory can’t go back that far

      Question 2: way more than a plethora

    • Big Mike

      My God that is so good. I’d say it was funny but as a seahawk fan it just isn’t

    • Peter


  48. pdway

    Palate cleansing optimism post – – this is the best corps of young talent we’ve had in the post-LOB era.

    Players you can build around on O: Cross, Lucas, K9, Charbonnet, DK, Lockett/JSN, Parkinson/Fant
    Players you can build around on D: Mafe, Nwoso, Jones, Brooks, Woolen, Witherspoon, Brown.

    Yes, I know some of the above are free agents, but other than Tyler, that’s a young corps, and it ticks a lot of the boxes you need. Putting aside the coaching just for a minute — IF, and it’s the biggest if in football – we can find our next QB, I can feel good about this team over the next several years.

    • Big Mike

      Only if if the team no longer is the Pete Carroll vanity project.

    • Ben

      For sure. Which almost makes it worse but least there’s some hope.

      Rob has laid it out pretty clear though, and we’ve all seen this happen over the last 7 or so years. Misjudging the talent on the team, thinking they are one piece away, lack of discipline, lack of flexibility, and losing to worse Rams teams.

      Need a QB, need to cut deadweight on the team, and go cheaper, younger, with more competitive players.

  49. 12th chuck

    we are all crazy if we expect anything different from Pete and the seahawks. I knew 3rd down was going to be an issue, and even if the seahawks were ahead, they would somehow keep the rams in the game and fail to put them away early No surprise that the run game was abended either

  50. cha

    Just saying. Doesn’t look so crazy now, does it?

    • Big Mike

      Didn’t then either. Just sayin’

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      No thank you, still.

      I prefer the draft picks…

      Now on to the interventions regarding PC.

  51. BK26

    This is basically where we are at right now: if we are going against a better coach, we will lose. If we go against a better overall roster, we lose. If we go against a team that has both: …the Ravens….

  52. GoHawksDani

    Guys, be happy! Geno stays next years too because no way PCJS start Lock and I doubt they start a rookie. How will we have money then? They’ll extend him to +4 years kicking the issues down the road, so all is good and dandy.

    But it’s great we didn’t gamble on Will Levis in the 123rd round, god forbid we have an alternative (he might not be a QBOTF, but could be an alternative option)

  53. Blitzy the Clown

    Frank Clark is gassed. Done. Finito.

    Go watch some of his tape from the game; it’s embarrassing.

    There is no justifiable reason to take snaps from Hall and give them to Clark.

    • Peter

      Veteran presence. That’s why Clark is playing 38% of snaps to Hall’s 29%.

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        Was Hall on the field for 26% of snaps this week? I swear I only counted five or six…

        • Peter

          That’s year to date. Yesterday I’m not sure.

      • Kyle R

        Irvin and Mafe just like last year rinse and repeat.

    • Scot04

      Denver cuts Clark and their young replacements sure looked good yesterday. No reason he should be taking snaps away from Hall.
      Similar to irvin ove Mafe last year

  54. Ty the Guy

    Geno: Only good on first and last drives. The man is better than a backup, but not consistent enough to be more than a bridge QB.

    Running Game: C’mon Waldron/PC, it’s Football 101 to try to kill the clock if you’re up in the 4th qtr.

    Defense: Overall, not bad. But the adjustments made by McVay and crew at halftime absolutely killed our pass rush. IMO, all blame goes to Seattle’s coaching staff there. Matt Stafford is a savvy vet, but still….

    Refs: Who cares. Out of anyone’s control.

    Game Management: WTF

    Drew Lock: Will never be more than a backup

    UP 13-0, WHY CAN”T WE PUT OUR CLEATS ON THEIR THROATS AND FINISH?!?!?! Ugly. Too much talent to be in this spot.

    • Peter

      We can’t put anyone away because we don’t know how.

  55. Peter

    Are we going to talk about the real loser(s)?

    Cha every week writing the best breakdowns of what to watch for and how we can win and those of us who enjoy every word only for tge opposite to show up.

    Keys to the game against the niners:

    Use the TE’s…..hard pass

    Control the clock….not on my watch

    Defend the middle of the field….nope that place stays open like a waffle house during a hurricane.

    Create presssure… my head as Wyman gives me a splitting headache.

    • cha

      <a href="; I’m A Loser

    • cha

      I’m A Loser

      • Big Mike

        I was gonna post a link to the same song but you beat me to it
        Not much better than The Beatles making an appearance on seahawk draft blog

      • Kyle R

        Curtis maybe if you post the opposite of the keys to the game Pete and Co will do the opposite and actually play the real keys to the game.

    • RomeoA57

      This 100%. The blame for these ugly losses should go to Curtis. Every week he writes down smart, common sense points that the Seahawks should follow to win the game and instead then they proceed to do the complete opposite.

      Romeo’s Week 12 What not to Watch Points:

      Pass the Ball: Seahawks need to maintain a 75% Pass to 25% Run ratio

      Time of Possesion: Unimportant this Week

      Drive Killing Penalties- Inconsequential

      Clock Management- Burn Timeouts early and often

      Pass Rush- Give Purdy enough time and he will eventually make a mistake?

      • cha

        The Seahawks have to kneel down on every snap in the 4th quarter.

        It’s a fact – teams that kneel down in the 4th quarter win the game 99% of the time.

  56. SeaTown

    Geno Smith not spiking the ball and calling a run with 25 seconds left and no timeouts to set up a 55 yard FG has to be the 2nd worst call in Seahawks history behind the SB 49 disgrace. The man has ZERO situational awareness. That’s why he’s Geno Smith.

    • bmseattle

      Pete said on 710 espn this morning, that they “practice that” and Geno not spiking it was the plan all along.

  57. joe

    Wow, the negativity on this site is pretty bad. The Hawks are 6-4 with a very, very promising young squad of players. The blog fails to mention that Kenneth Walker III went out with an injury and were missing some starting offensive linemen. I agree the offense needs to be more imaginative, and this is a game they should have won, but to say the team needs a complete overhaul is ridiculous. There were some AWFUL pass-interference calls in critical situations that completely changed the momentum of the game.

    • Rob Staton

      You know what’s really boring?

      People coming on here trying to claim ‘this site’ is negative just because we want to talk about different things than you

      Make your points. If you want to be positive, make the case.

      Otherwise, embrace other people aren’t always going to agree with you. Tell us why we are wrong and argue the points. Just calling something negative is a pointless comment designed to try and undermine people’s valid criticisms

      • Big Mike

        And please come in when we are 6 and 8 four games down the road. And while you’re at it if you do so, which is highly unlikely please tell us all the reasons why we’re negative and everything is fine.

    • BK26

      Ok, so then they BARELY beat another bad team. Again. They are 6-4 with only playing two good teams. Bengals were still lost and the Browns played the game without a quarterback. There are also two games this year that were complete embarrassments, start to finish.

      Despite the o-line injuries, they have been solid. And which young guys have been getting better under Pete? Why are we still a middling team like we have been for the last 6 plus years?

      And what difference does it make it Walker gets hurt or not? They weren’t running the football. Also, don’t be the guy making the excuse of the refs, you don’t want to be that fan.

      This is that mindset of “eh, we win more than we lose, continue as is.”

      • bmseattle

        Last week, after we barely beat the Commanders, the “optimists” told us that The Commanders were actually a pretty good team, and that the win was quality.

        Of course, yesterday, the NYG handled The Commanders quite easily.

        So, we can either be “optimistic” and now believe that that means the NYGs are actually a pretty good team… or be realistic and admit that Washington and the NYG are both pretty bad, and beating them does not inspire much confidence.

        • Big Mike

          You fail to mention the giants with Danny Devito at quarterback

          • Peter

            For real I’d love to see him in at qb.

    • Cysco

      Kenneth Walker’s injury had nothing to do with the outcome of that game. Zach Charbonet is a second round pick. He’s very talented. Blaming the loss on an injuries or on the refs is just silly. Place the blame where it belongs. on Pete and the coaching staff.

      They had a big lead. They ran the ball a grand total of six times in the entire second half. If you’re looking for an excuse for the loss. Look no further than that.

      There are no participation trophies in the NFL. The Seahawks lost a game they should have won. (something that has happened time and time again over the years)

      Change is needed.

    • Peter

      1. Who was missing on the oline?

      2. 6-4. Great. We just lost to a team who now has four wins, two of those against us.

      3. 6-4. Must have missed the time last year when we were 6-3 and limped into the playoffs to then get whacked by the niners. Similarities to this team….we almost had them for half the game. It was just the whole game where the problems were.

      4. 6-4. Let’s check some of those wins: carolina, giants, AZ. All three will/would have been picking top five next year. The rams are not good and we can’t beat them. WAS is legitimately not good with a lane duck coach and they just traded both pass rushers…also was a struggle…The Ravens rolled us. Detroit is legit the only good win all year.

      5. Young promising squad of players. The conversation that may be hard for some of us including myself:

      Dickson….but a great punter is not a great thing overall

      Maybe studs:

      Guys you are hopeful on but need to see more:
      Woolen…yep he’s here
      Walker….injuries and usage
      Nwossu…hopefully he’s right as rain when he’s back

      Am I missing anyone who is not old, out of contract, or both?

      The best LB is old. The next best is out of contract. All the safeties can be replaced. The best TE is out of contract. The IDL is old and needs an upgrade. The qb is old. Might be the future next year but is not someone you can grow with.

      It would be negativity if this was 5,6,7 years ago and we were talking this way. This is the same thing for half a decade plus. An uncreative offense and a defense that breaks when it matters.

      • jed

        Part 5: Good list and I’d add Lucas, Olu, and Young to the hope pile. Glad they’re using snaps on a couple journeymen instead of getting their young line experience in a season where the upside is getting mushed in the first round.

        • Peter

          Skipping those three was a mistake on my part.

          Olu definitely hope to solve the center spot.

          Young is solid and I’d like to see him get more snaps.

          Lucas….hopefully this injury ends up being nothing. He’s the man.

          If a few of those names listed move to the studs list we could really be on to something.

      • CJ

        “…promising squad of players.”

        Agree 100%. While the last 2 drafts have been good, they’re just starting to build a foundation. But Pete won’t build a foundation with draft picks, he’s too impatient. He’d rather do a million free agent signings or overpay in trades. Trades that hamper our ability to draft young, cheap players.

        And Hawk fans are always overvaluing their players.

        This team seems to be a good 3 years away from competing due to a lack of draft picks and cap space. We need at least the following:

        1. IL that can complement the young tackles.
        2. LB that can do more than make tackles 8 yards downfield. I love Bwagz as much as anyone, but if he’s on the roster next year I’ll be sad.
        3. IDL that can be stout against the run and contribute either schematically with the pass rush or get to the QB themselves.

        That’s like six starting quality players, and assumes that the current youth squad continues to improve and stay healthy.

  58. geoff u

    I question whether Pete hasn’t actually been more hands off and letting his coordinators run the show, and the reason why we don’t run the ball enough is because Waldron is actually running the offense how he wants. Same goes for the defense, where Hurt was seemingly installing his own 3-4, and then perhaps Pete stepped in and made him dial back. In any case, shit ain’t been working for a long time.

    I gave Geno a shot. I really hoped, with an offseason of being 100% the guy, he’d recapture the start to 2022 and light it up. But clearly that ain’t happening and that has been the most disappointing thing about this year. The offense was supposed to be the strength and they keep dropping the ball. I don’t think any of us expects much from the defense anymore, but at least they look adequate, and would a lot better if the offense could control the clock. You can’t discount the effect Russ/Lynch had on the defense from 2012+. Defenses can’t survive on their own these days.

    • Sten

      Unless there’s a complete turnaround of the offense this season, Waldron will be out of a job whether Pete stays or leaves. Greg Roman is still on the unemployment list and he’s probably the best run game guy in the league.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      This would explain the chasm of disconnect between what we know about Carroll’s previous offenses and what we see on the field.

      Yesterday was an extreme case that dispels any myths about why. Can’t say they were behind the scoreboard and had to chase points. Can’t say the defense wasn’t giving them the opportunities. Can’t say the down/distance situations forced them away from their game plan.

      All those Petey excuses are exposed as bollocks. Everything about that game — everything including the HC’s culture — demanded they run the ball, and yet…

      And with an OC from a, shall we say, pass-happy coaching tree?

      What else are we to think?

    • Brodie

      I’ve thought about this as well. A few years ago it was Pete who was hamstringing the offense by pounding the rock and not letting Russ cook. Now it is Pete hamstringing the offense by consistently going with a 60/40 pass/run ratio, even when nursing a lead and trying to bleed the clock.

      Something doesn’t add up. I’m wondering if Pete did in fact say – ‘Ok Shane, the offense is yours. I’ll stay out of it’

      This would explain why the offense doesn’t look anything like what Pete has stated is how they want to play.

      Seems odd that the same coach who wanted to dial back the passing and lean on the run with Russ would now want to all but abandon the run with Geno and two highly drafted RB’s.

  59. BK26

    Finally saw a mock with us getting a quarterback in the first round. Carson Beck…as the 5th quarterback taken, behind McCarthy, Daniels, Maye, and Williams. Everyone’s favorite snake-themed quarterback was not taken.

    Maye went 3rd to the Pats, Williams 5th to the Giants. Cards and Bears took Fashanu and Alt.

    It was the main SB Nation website. I guess someone else thinking quarterback is progress….

  60. Peter

    Think I’d like to see a qb with more than 11 starts playing on the best team in the nation before I spend a first round pick on them.

  61. Pran

    Geno was trash most of the game except 1st and last drives… game could have been put away even before he was hurt. just because he came back to gut it out did nt change result in any ways

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Wow, the negativity on this site is really bad.

      Would you rather being going 2-14 again, do you remember Stan Gelbaugh? I really think we all need to take a step back and really appreciate that our record is more positive than negative. How anyone cannot see this team headed in the right direction is beyond me.

      Coach Erickson did a great job with what he had, and what about Tez? What a game wrecker. I’m really excited for the future, I think Galloway can be a real stud, and what about Fauria?

      Had Kukar not screwed us in the Jets game, and if Mirer had started the Cards game, a couple other bounces go our way and we are a playoff team, and hey, anything can happen. I think Ken Behring gets a real bad rap from fans, he is trying to change the culture and make us a winning team again.

      Really, this is an exciting young core of players with a winning head coach, and just a few more things need to go the right way for us to get to the next level.

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        Reply fail

        • Big Mike

          I know where you intended for it to go

  62. cha

    PFF Offense Week 11

    • cha

      PFF Defense Week 11

      Good God Bobby Wagner

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        The attacked our LB and forced them into coverage? Where they struggled? Who could have predicted that?

        • cha

          People conveniently forgetting that the Rams schemed a wheel route pass to Henderson and no Seahawk defender was within a country mile of him (Love was closest). Fortunately Stafford overthrew him, otherwise we’d be talking about it.

          • Big Mike

            Absolutely. And I’ve seen a couple of people mentioned that Cooper Kupp dropped that touchdown but that was on Stafford. He threw it short and to the wrong shoulder. He did not have his best day by any stretch.

            • cha

              People think of Stafford as the Lions gunslinger who racks up stats but he’s fallen way off that pace in recent times. He throws an INT per game and is about a 60-62% passer now.

      • Blitzy the Clown

        That’s the most accurate PFF grade for Wagner all year. Not saying he’s been that bad, but he’s not been as good as PFF says

        And Clark. I think that’s a generous grade

        He was a total non factor getting 5x the snaps as our R2 pick. He won’t be a Seahawk next year. Why TAF are they wasting snaps on him to the detriment of players like Hall who need the experience?

        No different than Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa. Utterly anemic

        • jed

          So right on about the Clark snaps. He did a spin move on that goal line TD that got him out of the path of the RB. Just one more mark on the terribly coached game.

      • Rob Staton

        Wow, Bobby Wagner

        • Ben

          Sure seemed like Devin Bush was next to the coaches constantly, wonder if he was trying to get in the game.

          Bobby should not play every snap against a team that feasts over the middle and is acutely aware of his weaknesses.

          Bobby is a two down LB at best for playing running teams and short yardage situations. If he gets the defense in the right spot, give him a headset and release the other vets who apparently can’t.

          • cha

            Good shout. His coverage numbers, while never stellar, are better than Wagner & Brooks’

    • GoHawksDani

      Maybe the reason we suck at 3rd down offense is because we use a guy for 3rd down back for a pblock grade of…Five? 😀

    • jed

      Charles Cross! Hope he can keep that going cause he’s got a tough stretch coming up.

  63. CL

    Just finished the video of yesterday’s stream and it got me thinking.

    Especially the part where Robbie said that they had the ammunition to draft a QB earlier this year, if they really wanted to. But did you guys really see a realistic chance of Seattle trading up, even if they wanted to?

    – Panthers and Texans seemed to be locked on their QBs; I don’t think there was any chance of getting those picks

    – 3rd was Texans again via the Cardinals, as stated multiple times before the draft, I don’t think they were ever willing to give the Seahawks the pick / a potential QBotF

    – 4h pick: If my memory doesn’t fail me, the Colts threw some smokebombs, there were quite some tweets about Will Levis going very early. But after all they also seemed to be locked on Richardson.

    So yeah, looking back, there wasn’t really a way for the Seahawks to get any Stroud / Richardson imo.

    And then again, to all the people doubting the Seahawks might pursue a QB, I’ve never seen a satisfying answer to the following question:

    They were reportedly willing to trade Wilson to the Browns to pick Josh Allen first overall, they were also willing / considering to pick Mahomes with their 26th overall pick.

    So how on earth, Pete’s stubbornness or not, can they be willing to execute above moves and NOW look at Geno and say, yeah no way we’re picking a QB this year.

    I guess a lot can happen between now and the end of regular season and even more before the draft, but I’m fairly hopeful they’ll heavily consider not only picking a QB this year, but doing it early.

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      There are so many signs pointing to pick one being a QB it is getting a little too obvious that if you want a QB, you better jump the Seahawks.

      • CL

        Yeah agree.

        So hopefully they identify multiple guys they like and / or are willing to move up slightly, to secure their QB.

        Totally relying on Rob’s analysis here, but I don’t see Rattler, Ewers and Jayden Daniels going before their native pick.

        One could go easily, but I don’t think all three of them.

    • Spectator

      Simple. They aren’t planning to be coaching in the future, so why draft a QBOTF?

  64. WLO333

    Maybe it was off subject a little, but the point I was trying to make (maybe not so effectively) was that Geno has been the subject of a lot of blame throughout the season, and probably rightfully so. But, it is hard to tell to what extent he is the problem. Certainly his lack of consistency hasn’t matched next year’s price tag.

    You brought up some issues that we can maybe separate from Geno to some extent. Playcalling seems to be a big culprit.
    Clearly, we’ve invested high picks at RB over the last two seasons, and we aren’t yet able to consistently and effectively use those resources.

    How much is a beat up and ever evolving offensive line to blame? It seems to me that shaky O line play usually creates hesitant playcalling. It makes sense that the team would tend to fall back on an established WR duo over a run game that’s still a work in progress.

    But, I think part of establishing a dominant running game is conditioning the team to rely on it when the pressure intensifies. The team seems to do the opposite. That doesn’t seem confidence building to me. The bigger problem that seems to persist, that you pointed out, is repeatedly one of strategy. Both in regards to the opponent (the Rams are struggling against the run) and in game (with a lead in the third quarter). That seems to be a consistent issue among the coordinators that Pete hires.

    I think Pete’s motivational leadership is bar none, but I don’t think he’s the best strategist. That may be why McVay owns him so very completely. I can see Pete being able to motivate some unlikely wins during the upcoming gauntlet and salvaging the season as he has many times before. However, it it seems that there is usually some strategic breakdown that keeps us from the promised land.

    Oh, and I was hoping to ellicit opinions of our use of TEs (or lack thereof).

    • AlaskaHawk

      Four reasons why the coaching and training has consistently sucked for years.

      1. This team has never been able to throw a full screen play. I’m not counting those little sideline passes. I’m talking about a full out screen with pulling linemen getting in front of a back.

      2. The lack of use for tight ends. Why don’t they just get what they want, extra tackles and guards to block. Maybe they can catch the ball too. Hey let’s get another Graham and make him block instead of throwing the ball to him- that will work out.

      3. Play design – I remember being envious of the Bills back when their offensive coordinator was designing all these different running plays. You never knew which play they were going to use. Likewise with the Kansas City passing attack. So many variations and they keep changing till they find what works.

      4. Lots to pick on with the penalties, which have been pretty bad this year and is getting worse. How about the show boating after defensive plays? The helmet slapping after the play is over.

      5. Clock and time out management. How many years are we going to watch the clock run out on the last drive? How many times will they call a timeout and incur a delay of game afterwards.

    • cha

      I put some Geno thoughts together on his perf this year vs last year. The pressure, hits and sacks stats this year are very interesting in comparison to last year.

      • Peter

        If I’m reading this right pressures are up but the big statistical difference by the oline whoas seems to be running yards?

        Also are not in fact a running team after all? The play call percent seems like it.

        All in all it looks the variable most off is the qb themselves.

      • WLO333

        So the the number of blitzes are down this year, but other teams are getting more pressure anyhow. That seems to support an obvious degredation in O line play, due to various issues. Its also interesting that Geno’s latter 9 games from last year are better than this year’s first 9 games, indicating a continued regression of play.

        Regression in last year’s back nine at a same pressure rate as the front nine probably indicates that the secondaries were, in general, more improved over the second half, while the pass rush wasn’t the difference.

        I don’t know what we do with Geno if he were to crush it the rest of the year. That seems like the least likely of outcomes, though, based on the evidence. I’m still rooting for that to happen. I think either way we should let him test free agency.

        * Sorry I double posted this. I think I have my technical difficulties solved now.

  65. WLO333

    Hmm…that somehow got detatched from my previous comment. I obviously can’t hit the correct reply button. I’m not one to normally participate in blogs, so I guess I’m clumbsy there. I’m just trying to participate since I come here often as a reader. This is my favorite Seahawks/draft site because the amount of work you put in is obvious and your articles are well thought out, well supported, and well reasoned.

  66. Peter

    Dang that game sucked. Tankathon has us down to pick #22 in the next draft.

    Can’t wait for the next draft news and notes piece Rob drops before his flight for something else to think about besides Sunday’s loss.

    • Rob Staton

      I have a bunch of notes but I need sleep because I need to be at the airport in 12 hours so it likely won’t be posted until Tuesday night or Wednesday

  67. WLO333

    I think you hit on several excellent points that have come up in discussion with other Hawks fans, but you clarified them so well.

    1. I think Geno is better at the screen game than Russ, but why aren’t there more RB screens vs so many to the WRs?

    2. Noah Fant reminds me a lot of the lack of fit Graham was in a Pete Carroll offense. He just seems like another tool in the toolkit that sits there mostly usused.

    3. For a second there at the beginning of yesterday’s game I swear I saw some variation, at least in some interesting formations. But that soon went away, and we went full vanilla in the second half. And some if them were surprisingly effective.

    Darrell Bevell. I thought he was probably our most creative play designer. But, it seemed like he rarely knew the right time or situation in which to employ them. And he was probably the best O coordinator in the Carroll tenure. I see Waldron in a similar light, except that he’s less courageous, and therefore more mistake prone in crunch time.

    4. Yeah, the showboating (and fits..ahem…D.K…) as well as penalties go on every year. I think guys just need to be benched, by a few more plays plays each time until they get the message. Where us that allways compete mantra in this case?

    5. The clock management, I think, got a little better under Geno and I remember Russ having issues running out of time last year in Denver. But I’m afraid the timeout issues are, and always will be a Carroll issue. On the plus, I don’t recall any bad challenges this year…?

    • WLO33

      That was supposed to be a reply to AlaskaHawk. I may be experiencing a technical issue. I’m sure I clicked on the reply link under my last comment for sure this time. Let me post this to find out…

    • Ben

      I kinda hope Lock gets to play again, in one of those, leave no excuses unturned sorta ways.

      He didn’t play much and came into a tough situation, but to me showed exactly who he is. He throws to areas, he’s inaccurate and off schedule. He seemed hyped to play and pissed to not go in at the end, and I liked that, but he’s just got a scattershot for an arm.

      In 2011 people begged for clipboard Jesus. And what we learned against the Browns was that really needed new QBs. And in came Flynn and Russell.

      • WLO333

        And a lot of people really didn’t want Russ playing ahead of Flynn when we invested so much in a veteran free agent. That turned out to be a great decision.

        Yeah, Lock seems to like to throw in to multiple coverage. Its an issue than seemingly never gies away for him. I personally want to see whether Geno has what it takes to get through the upcoming 4 game buzz saw first. Then, I’ll be fully prepared for the Drew Lock experience.

        Dang, I wish we still had that second round pick back next year for a shot at the QB of the future…

        P.S. I think my responses got misplaced when I left some of the fields blank (name and email address).

    • Gritty Hawk

      Honestly, I consider not trading Fant at any point in the last 6 months to be one of the biggest failures of this season. They don’t have a prayer of re-signing him, and yet they have targeted him only 22 times in 10 games. And don’t even get me started on Dissly, who is taking up $9M of our cap to produce only 9 catches on 12 targets. The roster construction compared to player usage and production is utterly indefensible.

  68. RMK-LouCityHawk

    Watching IU men’s basketball struggle out of the gate this year is such a contrast to watching the Seahawks – leadership makes a huge difference.

    Oh, and for fans of a certain Cock

  69. WLO333

    So the the number of blitzes are down this year, but other teams are getting more pressure anyhow. That seems to support an obvious degredation in O line play, due to various issues. Its also interesting that Geno’s latter 9 games from last year are better than this year’s first 9 games, indicating a continued regression of play.

    Regression in last year’s back nine at a same pressure rate as the front nine probably indicates that the secondaries were, in general, more improved over the second half, while the pass rush wasn’t the difference.

    I don’t know what we do with Geno if he were to crush it the rest of the year. That seems like the least likely of outcomes, though, based on the evidence. I’m still rooting for that to happen. I think either way we should let him test free agency.

  70. JimQ

    I can’t stand being a negative fan, BUT………. I think the current team can maybe win two more games this year & they’ll be lucky to do that. I guess, if that improves their draft slot, perhaps they can look forward to drafting another safety, we don’t have enough of those, just ask PC who apparently thinks that is the most important position on the team. All informed fans realize that Geno isn’t THE GUY and Lock is a complete washout, plus they haven’t drafted a QB in a coons age, indicating their lack of respect for the QB position. Unless they (PC & JS) wise up on the QB PROBLEM, ASAP, mediocrity must be expected for several of the years to come. IMO

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