Information has been limited from Seahawks training camp, with the team inviting the media to attend while simultaneously not allowing them to actually report anything.
Regardless, all we’ve really got are a few team-sanctioned tidbits such as ‘D.K. Metcalf is playing well’ and ‘Jamal Adams is good’.
Therefore it was refreshing to get a more revealing and honest report from Jake Heaps on the Brock and Salk podcast this week (see above).
He starts off by praising the impact of Adams and the new-look secondary. Certainly the thought of him being joined by Quandre Diggs and Marquise Blair is a tantalising thought for a defense that wants to be physical. He noted that last year it was Tedric Thompson, Lano Hill and Shalom Luani and the difference is definitely noticeable.
That’s the good news.
At the 42:50 mark in the podcast the conversation turns to the defensive line.
Heaps has close connections to the team. He’s a former player for a start but he also trains with Russell Wilson and receives plenty of access working for the flagship radio station.
Generally speaking, he’s positive about the Seahawks. He could never be accused of being deliberately negative.
So what he said about the D-line was alarming. It also confirmed all of the fears we’ve expressed on this website about the state of the unit and the consequences it could have for the Seahawks in 2020.
Here are some selected quotes:
“It’s still a problem. There’s nothing in my mind, as I look at this group, that has changed. In terms of the number one problem that the Seahawks have had all off-season — identified by Pete, identified by John — all throughout the off-season, has been pass rush. Has been defensive line. And that to me is still the glaring weakness of this equation.”
“Now, they can dress it up. They can try and hide it by unique skillsets of those three guys that I mentioned — Bobby Wagner, Jamal Adams and Marquise Blair — but those three guys can’t mask the overall problem of your defense.”
“Your defense is designed — ‘four beat five’. Four rushers can beat five and we can play our coverage, our scheme behind it. You’re asking guys to play positions or roles that they’ve never played in before. That to me is evident.”
“Benson Mayowa for example… he is a rotational pass rusher. If he was your third pass rusher… I’d be all for it. Now you’re asking him to be your starting LEO. You’re asking Bruce Irvin, who’s always been a consistent six-and-a-half-sacks type of player, you’re asking (him) to be your leading pass rusher in a role he’s never played before.”
“Those are things that you look at and it draws major concern. Outside of Jarran Reed and Poona Ford, your depth at the defensive tackle position is scary.”
“You look at this group and I’m telling you that unless this secondary is one of the best of all time, you can’t hide all the warts that you have across your defensive line.”
“This is going to be a gamble guys and that’s why I say, right now, on Tuesday August 25th, that this group cannot be done. Pete and John cannot be done addressing this issue, that they’re going to make some sort of late acquisition before the season starts.”
The simple fact is the D-line isn’t good enough. When it comes to the key NFC West games or a playoff game down the line — it will cost the Seahawks.
Something needs to be done or there’s a serious risk this unit will deliver a wasted season.
It’s why I keep coming back to this point. Which is worse? Spending $15-17m a year for Jadeveon Clowney on a two or three year deal and it not working out, or not spending that money and relying on Benson Mayowa as your primary rusher in 2020?
Even if it has to be a one-year deal. Get it done. Find a way. You’ve waited long enough.
You’ve gone all-in by trading away two future first round picks for Jamal Adams. You can’t waste that investment by trotting out an atrocious D-line.
The true gamble isn’t spending money on Clowney. The true gamble is not spending the money and hoping what you already have is good enough when it quite clearly isn’t.
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Rinse & Repeat
Good insight Rob. It’s great to get a glimpse beyond the officially sanctioned reporters. The news that comes out of Seahawks official media sources sometimes feels like it’s coming out of Pravda
So Russ said today he will play another 15 years. I’d say he has a legit chance. Cowherd brings it up and says he’ll eventually do so for another team and that running a “1988 offense” and having a “crappy o-line” and not enough other stars will drive him away. Last statement was that it’s always been RW’s team and that “the Seahawks” won’t realize this until it’s too late. Compared his situation to that of LeBron in Cleveland and Brady in NE.
Russ must’ve called him complaining again. That said, I fear this is all true.
I would say that’s not a coincidence.
As for the d-line, we ain’t even winning the division as it is. As we all know, Jimmy GQ and Goff are not good with pressure. In order to win this division Seattle must pressure them both. Not gonna happen right now. Sign Clowney NOW Pete!
I certainly agree, the DL is not good enough as it currently stands! It seems like everyone knows this, and I’ve heard Rob state that PC/JS definitely know it as well. But all signs seem to indicate PC/JS are okay starting the season with who they have on the roster. Is it all just a big game? Don’t show your hand in any way?
Of course its possible they have several things going on right now in an attempt to beef up the DL group, and we wouldn’t really know. You want to trust they know what they’re doing with regards to Clowney, and DL in general, but the longer this drags on without any key additions I’m beginning to really wonder!!
Pay Clowney his fully guaranteed contract, get to close to $20mil/yr average for 2yrs, let him re-up in FA again in 2022.
I’d like to see if they can bring in Jabaal Sheard or Antwaun Woods for veteran depth as well.
The team really need to stop tweeting stuff like this:
https://twitter.com/seahawks/status/1298692427675402243?s=21
The reference to a late acquisition is interesting, as it makes me think trade more than just signing Clowney. Is Ngakoue still holding out or not signing his franchise tag? Any other mid level vets that might be available?
I think we’ve already established that they cannot fit Ngakoue’s tag total of $17m+ into the budget right now, unless they do some fairly significant shuffling of the deck. Also, don’t have much trade capital now either, do makes a trade pretty tough!
They literally can’t trade for Ngakoue.
What I wonder, is if the lowballing in negotiations has undermined relationships with potential players. Players dont just want cash, they want to feel valued and the respect of being recognized for that. This could be just as much about pride from Clowney as it is money. Keep throwing him bare minimum offers must have had the opposite impact on his desire to be in seattle. We had the money and chose not to really go after him with a serious offer in the caliber he wants to be at.
Griffen probably would have signed, had we actually acted in the months we had to give an offer. Definitely if we started that when free agency began.
Because no dlineman wants to be in seattle on a one year deal, unless they are a fringe player that wants to be seen as a starter. The good ones, want to be on a stacked line, so they have less attention and can rack up more sacks, and increase their next payday.
We are so depleted, we are gonna need to pay above market to attract real talent.
Paying over-market on the defensive line is a fool’s errand, and Seattle has never done so while John Schneider has been the GM. They may have to do so in order to get a good run-stuffing interior lineman, though. The rotation is way the hell too thin. Forget the edge. The pass rush looks no different than it did in the Gus Bradley era. It will be just enough. A good 3-tech is what they need. The interior is so thin that everyone on the 90-man roster at the position is all but guranteed to be on the 53. No competition at all, and that has me very worried about the run defense. They should have extended Al Woods when they had the chance.
Wrong, they cannot forget the edge. It remains a critical need.
“It’s why I keep coming back to this point. Which is worse? Spending $15-17m a year for Jadeveon Clowney on a two or three year deal and it not working out, or not spending that money and relying on Benson Mayowa as your primary rusher in 2020?”
My answer to this question is spending $15-17m a year on a 2-3 year deal is worse. Much worse. Being stuck in a contract like that, if a player doesn’t live up to the price, would hinder a lot. Especially if the cap stays stagnant or drops.
That being said, if you can add Clowney on a one year deal, you better do it. That and a depth piece at DT would complete this team.Agree wholeheartedly on that, Rob. But in PCJS we trust and they have found some productive “no-namers” before.
I think all of us just don’t feel comfortable, “wishing and hoping” that who we have now will produce more than they ever have.
Much worse???
So you’re assuming he won’t be a good player then? You’re just assuming it’ll be a sunk cost? That it’ll be a waste of money?
You’re completely eliminating the possibility that he could actually provide massive value for money on a deal comparable to Dee Ford, Arik Armstead, Leonard Williams, Kawann Short and Jurrell Casey?
$15-17m is NOT $25m a year. Put it into the context of the other names earning that amount.
If he doesn’t deliver will it be painful? Sure. But that’s the case for any player. They just spent a second round pick on a player who is injured and still recovering from a year long injury. How’s that any less painful?
This is in NO WAY much more of a gamble than banking on Benson Mayowa and Rasheem Green as your starting DE’s and thinking that’s good enough to waste another season.
Come on.
All good points. I would add that, depending on the structure, the team could get out of a multi-year contract WELL BEFORE it runs its course … if it were so inclined.
I, for one, would ABSOLUTELY sign Clowney to a 3-year deal at $17M to $18M a year without a moment’s hesitation.
Good podcast, great honest info. can’t wait for 5th sep 53 man roster cut. Sign Clowney before that please and lets rock the season.
I don’t know what is stranger, the fact they haven’t addressed the pass rush, or that it’s Aug 26 and we’re celebrating a somewhat prominent member of the media finally addressing it, and addressing it honestly and fairly.
Tell ya what. I’ve watched 4 games of his now and USC WR Amon Ra St Brown is super ‘Seahawk-y.’
One of the better slot receivers in another deep class. Outstanding route runner.Does an excellent job of finding soft spots in zone coverages. He’s gritty man. Likes to stick his nose in there. Quick, shifty, fast, can make plays in space. Big, big fan of his.
Kedon Slovis vs Iowa (2019): *watch #8*
https://youtu.be/jR39KHHsPf0
Big agree from me. Also that WR group was stacked last year with Pittman and Vaughns
Remember you talking about him a while back.
Maybe the d line will keep getting their $%& kicked in practice to the point where PC and JS will actually get it through their stubborn heads that they need to make that unit better. Or maybe the d line will keep getting their $%& kicked and PC and JS won’t do anything about it. The season and I’d say their jobs depend on it. They’re both up after the 2021 season. Going into the final year of their contracts in 2021 after having a wasted 2020 season…not a position you’d want to be in.
I just figure if we normal fan understand, Rob and other analyst, pundits get it so PC/JS must not aware of it? They have seen football more than us. What I’m trying to get to is, there must be some plan to fix or mitigate this mess.
The problem with that is PC and JS seemed content to go into last year with Ziggy, Marsh, Mingo and Martin as their pass rushers. So a pattern is starting to develop and it’s scary.
Yes, but then they signed Clowney. All be it the line was still poor, but I THINK that was always in their plans; they just needed to execute it. However, I do think they got stung with Ansah never getting right.
Once again, I think they are just waiting on Clowney (maybe he wants to skip TC??), knowing he is coming back; maybe a agreement in principle to match best offer prior to start of season?? As mentioned previously, Clowney doesn’t require TC to learn system or such; hes plug and play if healthy and in shape.
It can be my only guess, as the ship sailed on the last real option in Griffin. No draft stock to trade for someone good….no real other FA options… just has to be.
They didn’t sign him, they traded for him. And instead of having the DL in the league, it was merely bottom 5.
Lying in the weeds, waiting all summer until a week before training camp, 2 years in a row, to barely avoid having the worst DL in the league is no path to real success.
Sorry, meant traded for. Much like Adams, I think the talks with the Texans were on going for early on; they just needed to execute. And much like the current situation, they just needed to wait out to see what the market was offering to get him at a reasonable price OR trade compensation last year. His list of teams was small, and JS knew that the Texans would shop that offer to those teams if one were made. This year; I THINK Clowney will always give the hawks the chance to match.
But that is my optimistic train of thought; unload on me at will 😉
I can somewhat forgive last year, as there wasn’t the same pool of talent available in free agency last year. There was a number of good round one draft options, but until we dropped frank, there was little draft capitol. I understood last year’s team composition, even though i disliked the frank clark trade. Those guys dont show up as FA almost ever. Teams sign and keep em like they do with QBs and left tackles.
This year? Not signing multiple FA DE guys seems unforgivable. They were there, at a decent price. Just like not tapping into the deep Tackle draft pool seems unforgivable. It was a premier position, that was deep, and lasted until the late first round. The DE draft class this year seemed really weak. Or could be gotten in later rounds. Jamal taylor was still available in round 2 after all.
So we skip the deep DE class one year, draft OL, and pay in a weak FA DE market. Then the next year we skip the deep LT class to draft DE, and skip the deep DE FA market.. its like they are fighting the talent pools to go opposite and make it hard on themselves.
“Starting to develop?” They have followed this exact same strategy with the D-line every single year since 2010. They jettison their top pass rusher when he asks to get paid and replace him with a draft pick and a free agent or two found on the cheap. The thing is, usually that works, and they get guys who play at a level far exceeding their contracts, guys like Chris Clemmons, Bruce Irvin, Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, and Frank Clark. It was all well and good until Malik McDowell broke his skull, L.J. Collier essentially red-shirted, Ziggy Anseh could not overcome his injuries, and none of the bargain bin guys stepped up.
Do you know what else they don’t do? Offer big contracts to guys with a history of serious injuries. Again, usually that is a good policy from the team’s perspective, even if it is a despicable way to treat someone who has literally bled for that team.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Possible reunion in Seattle between the #Seahawks and WR Paul Richardson. Sources say the team’s former second-round pick is at the facility today for COVID-19 testing. He’ll go through protocol and could sign later this week
1) Josh Gordon’s status for reinstatement might drag into season
2) David Moore is now on roster bubble.
Possible reunion with Clow….oh P Rich….that’s fine too 😔😔😔
Until Clowney accepts the writing on the wall, don’t expect SEA to make changes to D-Line except maybe an upgrade at 3T/1T depth.
P Rich at league min means another 1.1m available. And option to sign Moore IF he makes it through waivers (cant imagine the 49ers passing on him w/ their injuries and no dead money).
I may be on an island here but I am still optimistic that this group will be better than people think. Its just a gut feeling. Maybe Im just being a homer which is possible as well but its just the way I feel.
With Clowney, I’m optimistic…without, horrified. I think mayowa and Irvin can act a average stop gap on the opposite side while they try to develop young talent or acquire another FA DE for use in 2021.
I feel the same way.
I am optomistic about the leos and the 5-techs (Alton Robinson may just be the surprise late-round find of the year), but the 3-techs and the 1-techs terrify me, specifically the lack of them. The ones who were here last year did not even look particularly effective before. Poona Ford made some splashy tackles and blew up some double-teams, but he is only going to be on the field for the first down or two. I hate to think that the rotation hinges on Demarcus Christmas–a relative unknown fresh off an injury–being NFL-calibur.
They could be ‘better than expected’ at this point and still be the worst pass rush unit in the league, so who cares?
While I understand the doom and gloom from many. I’m willing to take a wait and see when it comes to the DL. The DB’s and LB’s look like elite units which could easily make a bad DL a below average one. Kinda like Russ hides the warts of a below average OL. If the offense is improved they might be able to make do with the DL being the weak link.
1. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and just voice your own opinion without using the words ‘doom and gloom’. It’s perfectly fine and legitimate to voice serious concerns about this DL. Doing so doesn’t make you ‘doom and gloom’. It’s merely a poor attempt to undermine other people’s opinions without needing to actually come up with a convincing argument.
2. No, you can’t prop up what is easily is one of the worst units in the NFL. In my opinion, it’s without doubt the worst DL in the league. You can’t expect Russell Wilson and the offense to prop it up. ‘Hey Russell, can you score 30 odd points a game to get to ten wins please?’ —- that’s what you’re basically saying. He deserves better than that. You cannot win key divisional games and then key playoff games with a terrible DL.
If you want to ignore that and hope for the best, fine. But it is what it is.
Justin Britt in the building!
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1298723703811801095
You mean the Hawks have question marks about unathletic BJ Finney and perennially pushed around Pocic???…no way 😂😂😂
Saw that coming, lol. Real shocker Pocic isn’t playing up to what they need.
I would think that the move is about Kyle Fuller getting suspended leaving the team with just two guys who know how to hike a football plus the long snapper.
Would be good to have Britt back. but I read somewhere that we can’t cut Finney. so if we signed Britt and P-Rich and cut, say, Pocic, David Moore, and Lano Hill, would we have enuff left to sign Clowney?
who’s got a calculator…
It’s not that they CAN’T cut Finney, it’s that doing so doesn’t save them any money so the only “real” reason to do it is if they want to use his roster spot.
My biggest concern with Finney is that he was supposedly one of their key targets.
And if that’s their track record on key O-line signings this year… god knows how one of the other ones (Shell) is going to fair.
the discussion from 47:00 is fascinating too.
B J Finney contract is no good :(. Rob you said so, many more to come.
Sure is! Only saving grace is that he performed quite well as a backup across the interior line in Pitt. Given Britt & Iupati’s health, and Haynes and Lewis being unproved, it would be welcomed………but at <2m vs 4m.
With a Pocic cut saving us 1m and dead money of ~400k, dead even IF Britt signs a vet min; unlikely in my opinion, but who knows.
Alright you have a 100 dollars and have to place a bet on the Clowney situation. Which way are you betting A or B? I’m starting to lean towards B at this point..
A. Clowney signs with a team.
B. Clowney decides to sit the whole season out.
I go A. If the dude truly loves ball.
Dude loses more – in terms of both money and leverage – if he sits out a season. I think he signs … hopefully with us … as soon as camp ends.
So if we sign Britt, that means Pocic would be odd man out since cutting Finney would be a -1 mil cap hit. But the problem is still the same… can’t get rid of all the o-lineman from the Cable era.
Finney counts $3.5M against the cap in 2020 whether he’s on the team or not. If he’s released then the “other” $1M from his $4.5M guaranteed gets charged against the 2021 cap.
Post game – I missed a couple questions
Britt & Richardson “Don’t know if Britt cleared yet.”
Seeing at C “BJ’s gonna get it done, just gonna take some time. Ethan’s been around. A little more in Ethan’s favor. BJ aplying himself, capable, handling it all. ”
Dorsett & Ursua injury? “Philip sore foot acted up, Ursua tweaked hamstring. Philip had it for a while”
Center decision yet? “No”
Bucks boycott? “Horrific thing happening again. Talked with our guys. Doc Rivers talking did a great job. Ridiculous. How could this happen, everyone should have awareness. Applaud those guys. Not enough though, just a statement.”
Seahawks boycott? “Anything’s possible. This is the season of protest. We’ll handle ourselves as we do. Protest doesn’t have an end until issues solved. Work to stay actively involved. Staying on topics. Hopes we can help and support when we can. BLM obvious. Focus change.”
Players respond to shooting? Sat during anthem? “Haven’t heard from everybody. One thing, not numb to it. In tune. Everybody that cares is on the right side of this issue. We’ll continue to stay on it. Nice visit w Corey Booker. Helped us in a number of areas. Potential for change. Players have social media following.”
[Art T] Booker Zoom visit come about? “Met Sen Booker months ago, done some stuff together, podcast together w steve kerr. Phoned if he could talk and he did.”
[Art T] Players conclusion how express selves? “No, talked about it pregame today, anthem, protest. Guys have great wisdom. Couple weeks to figure out. Do something together? Anthem? Maybe.”
[boyle] Defense tackling full. First team D how feel? “Really excited about these guys. Infusion of spirit and leadership, Bruce and Jamal. Effect of Dunbar to add what we already have. Energy, excited about playing together. Gotta get good. Adjustments, want to play clean football and cut these guys loose. Faster, seem to be more athletic. Blair noticeable change. Guys getting better every year. HIgh expectations.”
Crowd noise? “Got louder as game went on. Took in good info. Today real helpful. Not gonna tell you conclusions we had. Important to have experience. Not many more chances before Atlanta.”
3rd mock game at VMAC? “yes”
Some of what I missed
Good news of the day….Adams’s hand appears to be a strawberry accident 🙂
Oh, and thanks again CHA; summaries are appreciated!
Love how everyone just goes along with the media narrative of these BLM stories without all the facts being out.
Well one fact seems to be that the man was shot 7 times in the back…………I’m guessing another fact is that you aren’t black.
Which facts are you talking about?
re: clowney
the lack of urgency from our FO could be rooted in a “right to match” clause (a potential hedge for waiving our tagging rights during the negotiations last year).
apologies if this has already been discussed or debunked, but it would explain our lack of urgency (and lack of action). would these details even be available to the public? thoughts?
with as many “insiders” as we have these days, I would be shocked if this were the case and we didn’t know it.
I think the agreement not to tag him and his agreement to let the Seahawks match any offer he can get are just handshake deals and still stand in theory. And yes, I feel that’s definitely one reason the Seahawks haven’t been willing to bid against themselves. But surely they didn’t expect him to go this far with it. They are both counting on the other’s desperation now.
No sacks recorded in the mock game today.
Not even a mock sack?
Against that OL?
All the QB’s had red jerseys on so im not sure how you could even get a sack.
Have you seen Borat?
😬😬😬
“He noted that last year it was Tedric Thompson, Lano Hill and Shalom Luani and the difference is definitely noticeable.”
OMG
That’s the shape of the DL this year!!! Unreal!!! The only difference is at least those guys were minimum salary type guys. Irvin, Mayowa, and LJ make good money! If they sign Clay Matthews – he’ll automatically be our best pass rusher and he’s basically a guy just off the street these days.
For whatever reason, your comment about Clay Matthews being “basically a guy just off the street these days” made me think of the riff-off scene from “Pitch Perfect 2” …..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLtWFZrzgNk
On 710 today Jake Heaps made a statement that he thinks Clowney will be a Seahawk. It gave me hope again since he’s been so connected
Make it so!
If they can make it work, that would be great. This run defense gives me nightmares even with Jamal Adams and Bruce Irvin. Clowney is as good a run defender on the edge as I have seen.
Just get through the preseason intact….. 49ers have been decimated with injuries already.
A guy some on this blog loved got a bad injury …. which is a shame, because we all want to see what these guys can do at 100% at the NFL level.
The New York Giants lost rookie safety Xavier McKinney to a fractured left foot.
After last year’s horror show, I imagine Seahawks fans are inclined to sympathize with injured players from other teams, even the 49ers.
I thought I read Clowney would be OK with a $15M offer for one year. If true, what are we offering at this point, $9M-$10M? Less? Do we think he’s worth $8M-$10M? The knock on Clowney is that he takes plays off and doesn’t give his 100% at all times. But when on, he takes over games. The inconsistency (and his health history) are the reasons he’s out there. But at $15M considering how anemic this D is, it seems fair. Sign him and a decent tackle and this team is a legit SB contender.
Unless there is a paradigm shift going on that we are all not aware of. If you were going to secretly change things up this is the year to do it.
I’m afraid there are no secret changes in the works. PC’s defense is plain vanilla. Line up 4 against your 5 and try to beat you. And play single high safety, cover 3 in the back. No deception, no gimmicks.
Having said that, I just read they’re trying new wrinkles and plays with the new personnel. I’ll believe it when I see it.
They do some clever deceptions, the Griffin Brothers’ sack in the playoffs being an example. Beyond just blitzing, there are alot of ways to get clever with a four-man rush. Looping stunts from the five-tech position were common when Mike Bennett was here to pull them off. I really hope that Robinson or Collier brings some of that back. Back in the day, Bruce Irvin used to line up with his hand in the dirt before dropping into coverage and allowing Bobby Wagner to be the fourth rusher. Bruce tallied a pass defensed covering Anquan Boldin that way, I remember. That is a sneaky way of getting pick-sixes, too. Recently, they have taken to lining up speedy guys like Shaqem Griffen wide-nine to give him the option of breaking inside or trying to turn the corner. Cliff Avril used to make hay from that spot in Detroit before he came here. A lot of schemes are based on personnel like that. Remember Big Red Bryant bull-rushing tackles into the quarterback? Special players can do special things which allow for special scheming.
I’m pretty sure Clowney is still looking for 17M per year now… long term deal. He has no incentive to play for cheap or even play at all this season. This could easily be his ONLY big pay day (health concerns etc). Think of it that way, then you can begin to understand why he has behaved the way he has. If he is meant to be with Seattle, he will be…. got to trust the process now.
I’ve read in multiple places that he now may be asking for $15M on a one year deal. But I could be wrong. I suspect we are offering far less. Which if true, I would sit the year out too.
He reportedly turned down offers at the $15M price point and while some (in the media as well as fans) think that he’ll eventually regret that decision (i.e. that he’ll end up signing for less than $15M), I think it’s probably fair to assume that he is still expecting to sign for something in the $17M to $18M range. And given that Seattle probably WOULD HAVE tagged him this offseason if they could have, and that the tag for defensive ends was in that price range, I think he’s actually got a pretty strong case for why he’s worth that.
On a side note, while much has been made about his having “only” 3 sacks last season, it’s seldom mentioned that he had 1-1/2 sacks in the 2 playoff games (which would project to roughly a dozen sacks over the course of a season) and that his pressure rate was pretty outstanding, especially given all the double-teams he faced. It should also be noted that Seattle’s D this year (with Clowney in the mix) would be MUCH better and that opposing teams would thus find it much harder to double-team Clowney with great regularity.
Clowney’s best years with Houston were 9 to 9.5 sacks. He was also in the 34-40 tackle range.
It would be nice if he could match those numbers. That would certainly be enough to justify a 15 million plus contract. Seahawks basically got half a season’s worth of production out of him last year.
And might’ve had a full season if he wasn’t being asked to be a one man band.
…. and/or had a healthy Ziggy Ansah lining up with him and/or wasn’t dealing with a core muscle injury for half the season and/or didn’t have a subpar secondary behind him to start the season (etc., etc., etc.)
Agree with you. Somewhere along the way, both Clowney and the Hawks misread this and that’s why we are where we are. I don’t think Clowney is worth $10M or less but Hawks seem to think so (I honestly think if we offered $15M he would sign). As for the overall market, it doesn’t matter what Clowney thinks he’s worth. 31 teams (only the Browns) have not stepped up to offer what he wants. Market dictates the value.
I’m not hung up in the 3 sacks. He’s a beast in the run game and a disruptor overall. Add the new legion of Boom 2.0 and this defense is much better than last year. Addition of Brooks and Adams gives aus speed on the edge that was not there and was fully taken advantage of by the Niners and Rams last year.
So they could’ve gotten Everson Griffen for the sane price as Finney and Ogbuehi….
Did they do the right thing?
No. Then they wouldn’t have needed to give Mayowa anything either (and had more money).
Player development needs serious attention. Bringing back all these past hawks tells a sorry tale.
The bigger problem is the players they’ve drafted. Not having a first round pick until 2023 doesn’t make it any easier.
My gut tells me that Clowney and the Seahawks are basically playing a game of chicken and that one or the other is going to have to swerve sometime next week.
From Seattle’s perspective, there’s a price they want to pay (probably somewhere in the $15M to $16M range) and they think Clowney will eventually agree to it and while they’re waiting for him, they’re basically not doing anything else “major” – which is why they ended up missing out on Everson Griffen. Seattle is probably assuming that if Clowney doesn’t blink / “swerve” then they’ll do what they always do and put together a decent “Plan B” (or Plan C) after other teams make roster cuts.
From Clowney’s perspective, I think there’s a price he wants ($20M), a price he doesn’t want to go below ($17M), and a price he “might” take if he “has to” but that he won’t take until after he’s missed 100% of the (in his opinion) “unnecessary” training camp practices. I don’t know what that last number is but suspect it’s a little bit higher than whatever Seattle previously offered.
ON A SIDE NOTE, had Seattle not agreed to NOT “tag” Clowney this season as part of the deal they made when trading for him, I wonder if they WOULD HAVE tagged him? If so then I am perfectly perplexed as to why he’s not under contract when the tag would have cost them the same $17M-$18M he’s reported to want (down from his original expectation of $20M+).
Why you think this…
Because of trade capital or his cap hit for 2020?
I’ve been through this already with you.
They can’t absorb a $17m salary which is fixed for this year. There’s no means to lower that salary either.
And the Jags aren’t just going to give him away. The Seahawks don’t have any picks.
Ok, I can accept that if Jags doesnt want to take any of cap hit we cant afford 17mil. And obviously we dont have lot of draft capital.
But what is strange to me, is that when there were rumors about Clowney and 15mil, all of you said “get it done”.
And its only 2mil difference. 2mil between get it done and impossible?
Just to clarify…I agree its highly unlikely they will trade for YN…because of.both,cap hit and trade capitl…
Just , I dont see big difference between 15 and 17mil…and if Clowney doesnt want to decrease his demands for this season, I also think its unlikely we will sign him…
Yes, $2m is a big difference. That’s a whole extra cut.
And you also have to trade for him.
For one year.
Clowney is a FA and as I’ve said multiple times they should do a 2-3 year deal to lower the year one hit.
I don’t know why you’ve brought this up again.
I agree they wont trade for Ngakoue strictly because of the draft capitol but there is a way to lower his $17m salary. The Jags could eat some the same way the Texans did for Clowney last year.
So what are you suggesting? That the Jaguars will gift the Seahawks a player by taking on half his salary and that the Seahawks will have him on a one year rental with zero draft picks next year?
It’s not possible.
With Wags and Adams the Hawks have two of the better blitzers in the league at their positions. Even if the Hawks can somehow improve the OL before the season starts I hope Pete and Norton find a way to use these guys to generate more pressure. I know Pete likes a Vanilla defense and that is great when your DL is more talented than the OL but that is not the case now. I hope they can adapt and find a way to maximize the strengths of the players they have. I know it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks but Pete has to this year IMO for this defense to have any chance.
I do wonder why we have not seen more of Bobby rushing lately. You are right, he is really good at it. I do not know what Carrol and Norton are thinking, but I suspect that it is that they cannot afford to have Bobby anywhere other than the middle of the field. Bobby led the NFL in tackles last year while playiing beside the NFL’s 11th leading tackler in K.J. Wright. Those two guys were tackling everybody, which they had to do because the rest of the defense was taking bad angles and missing tackles all over the field. Mychal Kendricks, Bradley MacDougald, and Tre Flowers missed an absurd forty tackles between them. With Bruce Irvin, Jamal Adams, and Quinton Dunbar here, maybe Norton will feel more inclined to unleash Bobby.
Heh, I am talking about “unleashing” the NFL’s top tackler.
Hope this carries over to the real games…
Ok, so they were both off of Gordon. But something’s something I guess.
Tbf, playmaking was never his issue at safety either, it was being in the right spot consistently.
But yeah, it would be a welcome surprise if he could lock down that spot.
Blair was also mentioned by Heaps multiple times. I was very sceptical of the Seahawks using Blair correctly after the Adams acqusition. If he balls out at the nickel that would kill two birds with one stone.
Yes Blair had a good mock game but he wasnt playing in the slot, he was playing at safety as Adams didnt play.
I would not read too much into the mock game anyways. Those INTs don’t mean too much. However, Heaps was saying that they found creative ways to get Blair and Adams in position to make plays.
Oh, and just imagine having a slot corner who is the size of Marquise Blair. He would make catching those crossers that Sean McVey calls constantly hurt.
For all the Husky fans here: former UW RB Salvon Ahmed cut day before yesterday by the 9ers and picked up by the Dolphins yesterday.
…where he will compete with Myles Gaskin….
Watching UW games, I felt he was very good runner. I remember asking Rob which round he will go and was surprised to know he will be late or not drafted. Standards are really high.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jadeveon-clowney-latest-news-afc-team/
That would be a scary DL, adding Clowney with Campbell and Judon! I’d rather play there as well if the money was the same, or pretty close. Seattle has botched this situation with Clowney for over five months, its hard to imagine they can fix it now!
Uggh… Come on Earl
It’s a heart-breaker to see what has happened to Earl since the contract dispute.
So a few things on Pauline’s report on Clowney.
1) If BAL is interested in a 1 yr deal for Clowney, the most they can give is 12 Million after committing cap space to IR and PS.
2) If BAL is interested in a multi year deal for Clowney, they need to figure out if they can fit Clowney, Judon, and Ronnie Stanley in the next few years under restrictive cap space.
3) However if Clowney does sign a 1 yr deal and outperforms Judon, they might give him multi year deal next year and let Judon walk.
4) IND has hurt Clowney’s market value. They have the money to match Clowney’s desired salary for multiyear deal, but they don’t value him at that price point.
5) If SEA wants Clowney on 1 yr deal, its now 12 million not 10, which means David Moore or Jacob Hollister need to be cut to make it to that price point.
to me nothing has really changed. If Seahawks really want to make sure they get Clowney they can make it happen.
Well i’ve been thinking about it for a while now. I think SEA’s line of thinking for edge rushers is don’t go over the value of the franchise tag. When Frank Clark was franchised, SEA wanted to give him that same amount on the tag which was around 17 million. When Lawrence got his 20 million, Clark wanted that and we said no and was shipped out. I think SEA views Clowney at 34LB and their franchise tag value at 15.8 Million and i don’t think SEA will go over that value.
Ravens can also release Brandon Williams and have an additional 4.5 mil to use. They could be real players in the Clowney sweepstakes.
They won’t release Brandon Williams. He is considered a leader, not just on defense but for the whole team.
The hawks tried…and I assume from all reports, offered clowney a competitive contract. Clowney did not sign. The Seahawks MOVED on. Sayonara! And they found a future hall of famer to anchor their defense for years to come…if you believe Adams when he says he wants to be a Seahawk for life. Never heard Clowney say that. Yes the price was higher, but Clowney is a flasher… the 1st eagle and niners games, and Adams is a hall of famer. While no one knows of Clowney’s whereabouts or intentions since his predictable disappearance in the playoffs…shaquem had more juice than Clowney in the playoffs last year…we know where Adams is…busting his ass. Slot has been made of the Avril…Bennet…Clemons pressure…but they worked in tandem with the best secondary in the NFL. The Seahawks arguably could have the best secondary now…that will be a plus to their pass rush. Or the pass rush could be a negative to their secondary? Who is the chicken? Who is the egg? In Pete Carroll’s defense…the secondary is the universe.
Clowney was double teamed consistently., even when injured. No one is going to need to game plan for or double team Irvin, Mayowa, or Griffen. I don’t know what games you were watching; but Clowney had an impact consistently when on the field, Even when injured.
Of course not. The tackles are supposed to be the guys eating double-teams, not the leos. If you want to point to a glaring problem on the d-line, it’s on the interior.
Interior D is a big issues. Everyone talks about Wags and Adams being big hitters. But if they have to take on massive guards coming thru the middle they will be beaten to a pulp.
The Seahawks have not moved on; they have yet to add anybody beyond Mayowa, Irvin, and Robinson & Taylor in the draft. Its a game of cat and mouse with Clowney, and I think we will see them get truly desperate if he signs elsewhere. Until then, they are waiting on him….
And I get tired of hearing about Clowney being lazy or taking plays off; that is Rasheem Green as Rob pointed out! Clowney doesn’t like training camp, and can appear “Lazy” in practice is the knock. Once the game is on, all I personally saw was him give his all; healthy or not! Dude got double or triple teamed on every play, and still managed to disrupt a lot of plays. All the “lazy” and “plays off” where due to him getting boxed out by extra attention. It was so much, that even guys like Shaquem could get pressure.
I will echo that. Whatever people saw him do in Houston, Clowney played on fire in Seattle.
No, they haven’t moved on Adog.
I won’t repeat myself. Just read the articles.
And no… the secondary is not the universe. This is incorrect.
Just curious, does anybody know where I can find a film breakdown of how Pete Carroll used Troy Palomalu at USC? I’m curious if he did anything differently.
I just went on YouTube to see some highlights and it looked like he was kind of a “free-range” safety. He was all over the place, playing up on the line a lot. I think Pete will give Jamal a lot of freedom to make plays all over the football field. I saw him rushing downhill on many plays after the QB hiked the ball, with those plays often ending in a sack or a tackle of the RB. Although I don’t believe the sack was an official thing for college football, here was Troy Polamalu’s stats at USC, btw he played in roughly 40 games throughout college. At the end of his USC career Polamalu had 278 tackles, 29 tackles for loss, six interceptions, four blocked punts, and three touchdowns. *Sacks are not an official college stat*
Any thoughts on (2) rookie TEs, Sullivan and Mabry? After the acquisition of DJ Reed off waivers, I’m sure the 49ers are poised return the jester by claiming either of those to their roster, even though they recently signed Reed for that TE position.
Both of these players have a lot of potential. I’d hate to see it developed in the bay area. From Olsen’s and other’s perspective, Sullivan, and Mabry in particular, both have promising futures.
Is their a way to keep them both on the 53?
It will be hard enough to keep one of those guys. Don’t know how they will keep both.
You might think SFO will sign them but it will challenge to keep roster and backup in good shape. I doubt anyone will sign either player. Guess what each team will have their own version of Sullivan and Marbry and some team will have starting/backup caliber players.
No. They will keep Olsen, Dissly, Parkinson, likely Hollister. That leaves Luke Willson, Sullivan, and Mabry in a tough spot. With enlarged practice squads and more lenient p-squad rules this year they could target Willson and Hollister there and potentially keep one of the rookies. All of this assumes that they don’t do some last minute major cost cutting so they can bring in an expensive player. If they do, all bets are off.
I suspect they might put Parkinson on the PUP to buy some time.
He started camp on the PUP, right? So that makes sense to keep him there. They aren’t getting rid of Hollister, I wish people would just stop with that. With the minimal camp this year, he stays on the 53. Sully has a chance to be on the 53 as well if Parkinson stays on PUP.
Why did they bring in more WRs for tryouts today? We have plenty of good ones already. They need to be bringing in DL, dangit!
Ursua and Dorsett missed the mock game with injuries yesterday.
But those aren’t serious injuries…or are they? This should give Sully a chance to run with the WRs for a few days.
I feel like Luke Willson is at the stage of his career where they don’t really need to have him on their initial 53. He’ll be in town, in shape and ready to play for the Hawks and probably no one else, at a moments notice.
It doesn’t feel like the NFL season starts in around 2 weeks.
Not in any way.
It still feels like a far off dream.