Watching this tape I really feel like wr #12 for Michigan really stood out. I believe his name was Gardner. What were your thoughts about a him?
GLHawkFan
Gardner is now U of M QB, he and DR switched towards the end of the year. I think Gardner was the player of the year in Michigan his senior year in high school. Would think he sticks there, but U of M does have another top QB coming into school this year, may end up switch back to WR.
Wasn’t that impressed with the Williams tape. He takes up space, but doesnt seem to be in on many tackles and was handled at times by underclassmen/no name guys. I hope and suspect I am wrong.
Eran Ungar
As advertised indeed.
As i was watching the tapes – all his problems were clear to see. Doesn’t keep his pads low enough, too quick to stand up, doesn’t shed blockers, no technique to get by blockers etc. etc. etc.
And just as i was thinking that Quinn really has a lot of work to do here…i noticed something else.
So, i went back to watch the tapes.
I looked for rushing plays only. Ignored the passing plays and looked to find a runner running at or by Williams. In those 4 games i didn’t find one rushing play that passed him. They either ran away from him of if they were close enough they found no room to run. The longest run i found by him was one he broke after 4 yards gain. I saw him push his guy into running lanes or just hold him there. They tried to move or turn him and he would not budge, not in the 1st quarter and not in the 4th.
He doesn’t just “take up space”…he HOLDS HIS SPACE. He makes it easier for the linebackers to plug their gaps and he wont be taken out of the play.
On 1st and 10 versus a running team like say SF or the RAMs i kinda like to have a nice big immovable object out there. That’s not a bad start.
I hope Quinn can polish him and get much more out of him but I can live with a guy you cant run over.
Hell guys, no matter what we say about technique etc. – SIZE DOES MATTER…
Jon
This is what I see as well. nearly every time the RB tried to find something around Williams, the slow down and have to find another way. He does not get tackle stats because there is no reason to try to squeeze by. This opens up others to do there job. With this pick up I consider the Alan Branch role filled. I actually think Hill will have a bigger statistical impact than williams, and I think both will start on this line by 2014.Hill has been playing at the 1 I believe and Williams at the 3 in Rookie camp. I think Williams fits both the 3 and 5 while Hill fits 1 and 3 in the Hawks system. If Reddown Williams will step in. If Mebane goes down I see Hill Stepping in. If neither go down then there is a very strong rotation with these guys.
And this leaves them with depth to spare in Mconald, McDaniels, and Howard that can play in those
Jon
Then they have Powell (a guy to watch according to JS). Clemons (starting out on PUP), Irvin and Avril (LEO, SAM concepts).
You also have to account for Bennet (so many potential ways to use him) and Scruggs (Hopefuly he can recover and be the player that his potential says he could be)
We have quite a stacked line, that is an impressive list
A. Simmons
Williams will most likely play the 1 and the 5 tech backing up Mebane and Red while starting on 1st and 2nd down in the 3 tech. Hill will be the 3 tech and 1 tech on passing downs, possibly getting more time at the 3 tech if he can hold up against the run.
geoffu
Considering our mediocre run defense last year, this is the kind of guy this line needs.
We’ve already got Avril, Clem, Irvin, Bennett, and Hill to rush the passer. And suddenly we have glut at the pass rusher role now? Considering we just had Clem and Irvin last year, damn what an offseason!
Elijah
I wonder if in the next few year we’ll see Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane phased out due to salary and only one-dimension they bring as run stoppers. It’s cheaper if we can switch to an entire rotation along the line, where we plug in young players who have one role (stopping the run or rushing the passer) and maximize their opportunities to play those roles. Who knows, kind of just something to think about
Yah, the scouting report on Williams is pretty straight forward. There are the obvious negatives; poor pad level, doesn’t disengage, no moves to speak of. Having said that… What has JS taught us about the Hawk’s scouting department… It’s not so much what a player can’t do, it’s what he can do! He is the early down, run situation, “man-eating” DT that is so valuable, especially when you have an undersized MIKE backer like Tatupu or Wagner. They aren’t asking him to be the next Cortez Kennedy (in part because he is clearly incapable), just clog the lanes, take up two blockers whenever able and keep the backer free to make the play.
Great pick up, for a FIFTH round pick.
“Go Hawks”
A. Simmons
Yep. Williams was taken because he can do what he can do very well. Pete’s said many times goal number one on defense is to stuff the run to set up 3rd and long, then unleash the hounds on the QB.
Lewis
This is a guy who didn’t grow up playing football, and spent part of his collegiate career in JUCO. He’s not a finished product. Just because he hasn’t been disruptive on tape doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t capable of that. Perhaps that simply isn’t what he has been asked to do. Maybe he can do more, maybe he can’t, but why be so quick to impose a ceiling on his ability?
Kenny Sloth
I totally agree. His ceiling. is very very very high. I thought he had first round potential, but slipped due to inconsitency and the perceived two dimensional nature of his game. I like him as Red’s long term replacement
Jim Quait
Jordan Hill, DT looks like a keeper!
“While big names like Sharif Floyd and Star Lotulelei dominate the discussion about defensive tackles, Jordan Hill deserves to be discussed based on his stats alone. As a pass rushing DT, Hill grades out with a Snaps Per Pressure (SPP) of 13.3, which makes him the most efficient pass rusher of the DTs (slightly ahead of Sheldon Richardson) and more efficient than some pass rushing DEs like Datone Jones. Hill also had the most combined tackles in the backfield and 1-2 yards from the LOS (25 tackles), more than ANY defensive tackle. Based on these metrics alone, Hill should be considered solid all-around DT to be picked earlier than the 4th-5th round he’s projected in.”
Watching this tape I really feel like wr #12 for Michigan really stood out. I believe his name was Gardner. What were your thoughts about a him?
Gardner is now U of M QB, he and DR switched towards the end of the year. I think Gardner was the player of the year in Michigan his senior year in high school. Would think he sticks there, but U of M does have another top QB coming into school this year, may end up switch back to WR.
Wasn’t that impressed with the Williams tape. He takes up space, but doesnt seem to be in on many tackles and was handled at times by underclassmen/no name guys. I hope and suspect I am wrong.
As advertised indeed.
As i was watching the tapes – all his problems were clear to see. Doesn’t keep his pads low enough, too quick to stand up, doesn’t shed blockers, no technique to get by blockers etc. etc. etc.
And just as i was thinking that Quinn really has a lot of work to do here…i noticed something else.
So, i went back to watch the tapes.
I looked for rushing plays only. Ignored the passing plays and looked to find a runner running at or by Williams. In those 4 games i didn’t find one rushing play that passed him. They either ran away from him of if they were close enough they found no room to run. The longest run i found by him was one he broke after 4 yards gain. I saw him push his guy into running lanes or just hold him there. They tried to move or turn him and he would not budge, not in the 1st quarter and not in the 4th.
He doesn’t just “take up space”…he HOLDS HIS SPACE. He makes it easier for the linebackers to plug their gaps and he wont be taken out of the play.
On 1st and 10 versus a running team like say SF or the RAMs i kinda like to have a nice big immovable object out there. That’s not a bad start.
I hope Quinn can polish him and get much more out of him but I can live with a guy you cant run over.
Hell guys, no matter what we say about technique etc. – SIZE DOES MATTER…
This is what I see as well. nearly every time the RB tried to find something around Williams, the slow down and have to find another way. He does not get tackle stats because there is no reason to try to squeeze by. This opens up others to do there job. With this pick up I consider the Alan Branch role filled. I actually think Hill will have a bigger statistical impact than williams, and I think both will start on this line by 2014.Hill has been playing at the 1 I believe and Williams at the 3 in Rookie camp. I think Williams fits both the 3 and 5 while Hill fits 1 and 3 in the Hawks system. If Reddown Williams will step in. If Mebane goes down I see Hill Stepping in. If neither go down then there is a very strong rotation with these guys.
And this leaves them with depth to spare in Mconald, McDaniels, and Howard that can play in those
Then they have Powell (a guy to watch according to JS). Clemons (starting out on PUP), Irvin and Avril (LEO, SAM concepts).
You also have to account for Bennet (so many potential ways to use him) and Scruggs (Hopefuly he can recover and be the player that his potential says he could be)
We have quite a stacked line, that is an impressive list
Williams will most likely play the 1 and the 5 tech backing up Mebane and Red while starting on 1st and 2nd down in the 3 tech. Hill will be the 3 tech and 1 tech on passing downs, possibly getting more time at the 3 tech if he can hold up against the run.
Considering our mediocre run defense last year, this is the kind of guy this line needs.
We’ve already got Avril, Clem, Irvin, Bennett, and Hill to rush the passer. And suddenly we have glut at the pass rusher role now? Considering we just had Clem and Irvin last year, damn what an offseason!
I wonder if in the next few year we’ll see Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane phased out due to salary and only one-dimension they bring as run stoppers. It’s cheaper if we can switch to an entire rotation along the line, where we plug in young players who have one role (stopping the run or rushing the passer) and maximize their opportunities to play those roles. Who knows, kind of just something to think about
Yah, the scouting report on Williams is pretty straight forward. There are the obvious negatives; poor pad level, doesn’t disengage, no moves to speak of. Having said that… What has JS taught us about the Hawk’s scouting department… It’s not so much what a player can’t do, it’s what he can do! He is the early down, run situation, “man-eating” DT that is so valuable, especially when you have an undersized MIKE backer like Tatupu or Wagner. They aren’t asking him to be the next Cortez Kennedy (in part because he is clearly incapable), just clog the lanes, take up two blockers whenever able and keep the backer free to make the play.
Great pick up, for a FIFTH round pick.
“Go Hawks”
Yep. Williams was taken because he can do what he can do very well. Pete’s said many times goal number one on defense is to stuff the run to set up 3rd and long, then unleash the hounds on the QB.
This is a guy who didn’t grow up playing football, and spent part of his collegiate career in JUCO. He’s not a finished product. Just because he hasn’t been disruptive on tape doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t capable of that. Perhaps that simply isn’t what he has been asked to do. Maybe he can do more, maybe he can’t, but why be so quick to impose a ceiling on his ability?
I totally agree. His ceiling. is very very very high. I thought he had first round potential, but slipped due to inconsitency and the perceived two dimensional nature of his game. I like him as Red’s long term replacement
Jordan Hill, DT looks like a keeper!
“While big names like Sharif Floyd and Star Lotulelei dominate the discussion about defensive tackles, Jordan Hill deserves to be discussed based on his stats alone. As a pass rushing DT, Hill grades out with a Snaps Per Pressure (SPP) of 13.3, which makes him the most efficient pass rusher of the DTs (slightly ahead of Sheldon Richardson) and more efficient than some pass rushing DEs like Datone Jones. Hill also had the most combined tackles in the backfield and 1-2 yards from the LOS (25 tackles), more than ANY defensive tackle. Based on these metrics alone, Hill should be considered solid all-around DT to be picked earlier than the 4th-5th round he’s projected in.”
http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/ … -prospects
Agree with the comments above, and think we’re very likely looking at the Red Bryant replacement as Big Red phases out.
Really excited for Willson. He’s looked good in minicamp and seems intelligent.