Maryland’s Nick Cross sets a tone
When a GM and Head Coach have been with a team for so long, it’s a lot easier to get a feel for what they like.
If the Seahawks are going to embrace a fairly significant rebuild, with a new core, it’s worth reflecting on what history tells us.
They’ve invested a lot in linebackers and safeties.
The second round pick on Bobby Wagner (then paying him big money, twice). A first rounder on Jordyn Brooks. A first rounder on Earl Thomas. A second rounder on Marquise Blair. The Jamal Adams trade.
Not to mention reported interest in Luke Kuechly in 2012, who they could’ve taken (if available) with the #12 pick. Plus reported interest in Johnathan Abram in 2019.
Rightly or wrongly, the Seahawks under Pete Carroll have invested a significant chunk of their resources in these two positions.
As they look to reshape their defense, they might do it again.
Wagner’s release creates a potential hole. The same will happen at safety if Quandre Diggs departs.
Personally, I wouldn’t pay big money for a 29-year-old safety coming off a serious injury in a rebuild year.
The two picks in round two — #40 and #41 — could potentially align very well with the two positions we’re talking about here.
If they’re looking for a Wagner replacement — both Channing Tindall and Leo Chenal have the kind of speed, explosive traits, agility numbers and physicality to really fit the bill. As much as I’ve pushed back against the investment at linebacker over the years — these two players, in a deep group of linebackers — have a chance to be extremely good. Maybe even special.
Then you’ve got a player who the more I’ve studied, the more convinced I am the Seahawks will seriously consider drafting him.
It’s not just that they’ve put a lot of focus on the safety position. They like to play with a physical edge. Their three big investments at the position — Thomas, Blair and Adams — all had a reputation for their playing style.
Abram had it too. He combined 4.4 speed with an aggressive approach to the game. He hit people and left a mark. I think a big part of their clear disappointment after the first round concluded in 2019 was down to missing out on Abram (plus missing out on their pick of the pass rushers).
Maryland’s Nick Cross is an absolute hammer. He is a throwback. He delivered some unbelievable hits and provides the kind of fear-factor in the back-end the Seahawks have been missing for a long time.
Not only that, he ran a 4.34 at the combine and jumped a 37 inch vertical. He’s 6-0 and 212lbs too so has reasonable size.
Listening to him during interviews he’s well spoken, says the right things and gives off a big team-first vibe. You can imagine him in a leadership role.
I can imagine Carroll completely falling for a player like Cross. If the objective is to use the picks, play the long-game and invest in a younger core — he seems like the type of player who could be a cornerstone.
I wouldn’t be totally against the pick either — which I appreciate sounds like a major contradiction based on what I’ve been saying about spending too much on the linebacker and safety positions.
However — I would rather build around fast, physical players on defense who fly to the ball and play an aggressive brand of football. I want a violent defense again.
Jermaine Johnson, Channing Tindall/Leo Chenal and Nick Cross playing on the same defense as Darrell Taylor and Jordyn Brooks is very appealing. And hey — maybe that other safety could join the party next year.
This is just one idea of many. We’ve got over a month to discuss various scenarios and this is one of them. I am very open to the idea of finding a way, even if it means trading up, to get at one of these very impressive defensive tackles instead. The addition of Shelby Harris, however, might make that less likely.
I do like the idea of going all-defense in the draft though and trying to blitz one side of the ball with young talent. On offense, there are options in free agency to add a left tackle (Eric Fisher, Joseph Noteboom, Duane Brown), center (Brian Allen, Bradley Bozeman), right tackle (possibly La’el Collins) and receiver (Russell Gage, Christian Kirk).
With the second most cap space in the NFL this year and the most next year if the Raiders retain Derek Carr, there’s no reason not to splash some cash on the right types of players.
And if you can start a much more physical, younger, tone-setting defense next season — and combine it with a consistent running game — you’ll be setting the stall out for Carroll’s preferred method of football.
The Seahawks have been aiming to be the bullies again for some time and have turned into a finesse team instead.
Jermaine Johnson, Channing Tindall/Leo Chenal, Nick Cross, Darrell Taylor, Jordyn Brooks and Jamal Adams — with a running back like Zamir White or Dameon Pierce — and some free agent additions to fill holes on offense, can take this team a lot closer to being back to the team they want to be.
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Please please please
RS said, “…The Seahawks have been aiming to be the bullies again for some time and have turned into a finesse team instead.”
Amen. Let’s fix that.
Rob what do you think it would take to get Kellen Mond from the Vikings? Then adding a veteran like Marcus Mariota or Gardner Minshew to compete for next seasons starting job? I like the notion of using most of our draft capital on the defensive side of the ball and let things play out offensively while we wait for Levi’s next year.
The GM who drafted him was fired so I suspect it will be quite cheap.
You were pretty high on the kid last year if I remember right? He hasn’t gotten any real opportunity in Minnesota and since he’s not the new GM’s guy could be pretty enticing to acquire him especially without having to give up much. How would you rate him in comparison to this years draft of QBs?
I think he offers more than a lot of them. I would happily take a shot on adding him to the compensation if the price is low
How about say Corral vs Mond comparison straight up? Who do you think is better?
Kuechly was THE defensive prospect that year (at least he was for me). Sort of like Jordan Davis or Jermaine Johnson in this class (I think Johnson is the premier edge player in this draft class).
And yet, JS/PC traded down slightly to get a two-for-one in Irvin and Wagner. Ok not exactly – Seattle took Wags with #47 after trading down from 43 with the Jets – but it’s the same principal of targeting two (or more) “premium-adjacent” prospects at two (or more) positions instead of going for one top prospect.
And in a draft like this were there will be numerous “premium-adjacent” prospects at multiple positions of need well into round 3, I can’t but expect JS to do that again. And I expect him to do it well because he has before.
He has to hope he does it well, especially if they trade down.
They talked to much recently about a lack of high picks.
I’m also wondering if it would be difficult for them to find a trade partner.
Most teams believe they’ll take a QB, so I could see teams trading over them for QBs.
Whatever happens it will be crucial for PC & JS.
They have to hit big on this draft.
I think the Eagles would trade 15 for 9 to get at one of Kyle Hamilton or Lewis Cine. Safety might be their biggest need. The Jets also need a safety and might take whichever of Hamilton or Cine is left when they’re on the clock at 10, and there’s a pretty steep drop in talent at that position after those two.
Schneider and Carroll say lots of stuff that never amounts to anything so I doubt they’ll feel compelled to use #9 just because they said they never get to.
Don’t forget they likely wanted Mychal Kendricks and the Eagles poached him just before the Seahawks picked. Their reactions on War Room live cam and widespread reporting led us to believe he was their first choice.
But the second choice seemed to work out pretty good.
Man 2012 was really deep at LB too, wasn’t it?
Kuechly
Wagner
Ingram
Hightower
Kendricks
Nick Perry, Courtney Upshaw, Zach Brown and Lavonte Davis were also all pretty interesting, even if they never panned out.
Keep that Lavonte slander out ya mouth! It turned out more than fine, but always felt he shoulda been a hawk. Dude has balled out for a decade
Nonsense. Lavonte David has been good to great his entire career in Tampa and was a major part of winning superbowl 55
It’s exciting to think about what the team can accomplish with all the draft capital they have accumulated, isn’t it? However:
If they trade for Deshaun Watson and give back the draft capital to Houston, they would have essentially traded Wilson for Watson. A lot less exciting. Might as well bring in Bill Cosby and give him a FO job, and bring in OJ Simpson and give him a coaching job. We all know that it’s possible to be a wood football player and a rotten human being at the same time. JS, I hope you are a lot smarter than that.
You rank Johnson over Hutchinson and Thibs? Personally haven’t studied any of these players closely
The Wilson trade has made the draft so much more fun. I love the idea of grabbing as much talent early as possible. Even trading back from 9 is appealing if we can pick up a late second early third.
Desai and Hurtt are definitely not going to be okay with a few mediocre free agents patching the defense. I have a feeling the draft will be getting guys that fit the new defensive identity.
Random thoughts this morning…
Looking at our free agents… I think it’s a must we resign Duane Brown, DJ Reed and Sidney jones. Everyone else can go. Target a starting center and a starting right tackle (who upgrades over shell) in free agency. I don’t like the idea of paying big for free agent corners though, or a free agent left tackle. Replace Diggs in the draft. Show fumblin’ and dropped passes Everett the door , Fant replaces him. I’d consider bringing uncle will back but ONLY for very cheap, otherwise role within Fant and Parkinson + add a rookie. Also think it’s crucial they get a better WR3 in free agency. Names like Cedrick Wilson, Russell Gage.
Agree on WR3. That would really complicate things for defenses & get some pressure off the QB.
Another great prospect write up Rob.
Draft seems full of talented LBs & Safeties.
I 100% agree about letting Diggs walk.
I do think Seattle might have to overspend a bit on young Free-agents to get them.
Too many negative comments coming out against them.
Noteboom looked pretty good filling in at tackle for the Rams last year.
Will be interesting to see how the approach Free-agency.
Hopefully we have all our picks for the draft. Not excited about high picks for vets, just don’t see any point for it this year.
We’re not close enough to do another Adams mistake type trade.
I view Watson as a similar case to Adams.
I’m only nervous because it makes 0 sense to trade for him.
I felt the exact same way about Adams before we traded for him.
Hoping not to get another bad surprise.
I don’t mind doing this
I know this is a great linebacker draft. But I’m mentally preparing myself for them to pass them over and go with Cody Barton next year. They could easily embrace that this is a rebuild and they can’t fill all their holes at once, and they have a moderately serviceable guy to hold it down for a year.
I’m not saying that is what they should do – I’d love Channing Tindal to be in blue and green for the next 10 years – but if they pick a game-changer at Center, Defensive Line, or like Cross enough to take him OR if someone you can’t say no to slips to them (think Lucas, Corrall or Ridder, Mafe), I could accept them skipping on LB and taking a project late or in UDFA and punting to 2023.
PC did say when referring to Brooks and Barton at the end of the season; this is our future.
So he seems confident they can have Barton at MLB & keep Brooks where he is.
Barton looks like a different player inside vs. outside. He sucks on the outside, but looks competent inside. Not saying he’s good, but he doesn’t suck like a player like Fuller, Flowers, Collier, etc. Another example of comPete drafting an inside player and moving him to where he’s not in a position to succeed. Then lo and behold – he goes back to where he should be and is magically much better.
I’m all for Damien Lewis at RG and Haynes at LG. Let’s dump old man and not very good Gabe Jackson and save some money.
And, comPete, play players where they’re best moving forward, please.
I remember when he created a role for Red Bryant and put him in a position to be successful. Bryant wasn’t good inside, but when he moved him… Big Red became a good/solid player. I wish he’d do that more like he used to. Maybe he was being “too arrogant”?
I feel the same way with our OG situation. Put Haynes at LG and Lewis back at RG. Gabe can be the back up at OG in his last year with the Seahawks.
But aren’t we shifting more to a 3-4? And currently, there are only 3 starting caliber LBs on the roster – Brooks, Taylor and Barton. Not sure I’d rely on much from BBK after a season out with an ACL.
Can’t run a 3-4 with only 3 LBs and no depth behind them.
For the record PC has said ‘the defense won’t look as different as you think’ or something to that effect.
Take that for what it’s worth.
Also Pete Carroll, so maybe not worth much.
I think theyve said they want to run multiple defences. But in a 3-4 look players like Dunlap and Robinson would be OLBs anyway, and you arent playing BBK there.
Free agency will give some clarity on needs but overall they should pick Best Player available. If that means they get upgrade over Cody so be it. If they get someone at center (Tier 2/ Tier 3) in free agency and good center falls to them take it and use as competition in camp later trade/cut. But DL/OL needs to be premium/ the best. By trading Wilson you are not under the gun to win SB this year.
Goal is to improve the roster with blue chip player and there are gaps all over so you are not going to get all done this year which is fine.
Keep the trades coming!
Maybe the Cowboys can afford Wagner now…
Ooh, spicy… Hope Baker has a Progressive policy on his job security… 😜
I’d so much rather have Mayfield on a cheaper contract than Watson.
I agree.
Deshaun to Cleveland!!!
Sign. Me. Up.
And it should be actually feasible, which is amazing.
If we keep DK, I think we can just see what we have in Eskridge this year at WR3. Invest in OL (C and RT at least) in FA.
Per your board, watched Joseph and Monday who were both physical but Cross looks like he hits harder, moves faster and is an eraser!
Yep (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OzIwjjz9QY). Sorry… lost my cheat sheet for quotes and links.
Also – shield your eyes – he actually kills a screen around 1:50.
I love the nickname for him of “super gremlin” let’s start it now.
Whewwwww, this WR market is gonna be tight.
1. Allen Robinson (really hard to gauge how far from his peak he is)
2. DJ Chark (off injury, upside play)
3. Juju (short area only?)
4. Christian Kirk (could be a solid #2)
5. Michael Gallup (likely to return to Dallas)
6. Russell Gage (slot)
Whoops, meant to be in in reply above with regards to Amari trade talk above. And I missed Odell but he seems likely to go back to the Rams and only play part of the season.
What’s going on with Cooper that Dallas parted with him for only a fifth? Terrible contract?
Teams knew that he would be cut if trade had not materialized. Drives down leverage.. Concerning the contract I believe he signed a 5y 100 mio contract. He is Most definitely a WR1, I think the contract is fair considering that Mike Williams also signed for 20 mio a season.
Dallas needs to save Cap, prob. view Lamb as Theorie WR1 ans want to resign Gallup and other key pieces.
Browns open to trading Jarvis Landry … do you bite?
Landry is 29 and most likely released soon. Do Hawks see him beyond 2022? Rather invest in future
Not for me
Go with youth
Rather pay kirk than a pickand pay of landry.
When Russ was still on the team and it looked like Pete was going to “run it back” with the same defense, I joked that the team would pick more safeties and linebackers. It’s always been two positions important to Pete. Now that Russ is gone, it doesn’t seem so much like black humor and more like a potential to shape the team.
I do like the cluster draft approach. Hit one side of the ball heavily, and address the other with a few key free agents.
Per Aaron Wilson:
and also:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/sources-deshaun-watson-trade-market-expanding-rapidly-since-game-changer-legal-ruling-here-are-the-most-aggressive-suitors-for-franchise-quarterback/
Trading away locket / or DK + picks for a likely serial sex offender with two torn acls in this past would be a worse trade than the Jamal Adams trade
There are how many accusations levied at Watson?
What if you trade for him and another thing comes out within a year?
Imagine giving away the house for that.
Lost a bit is being worried that for all the Wilson drama Watson was holding out because he wasn’t getting what he wanted prior to the accusations. Whereas Wilson still kept playing when everyone paying attention knew it wasn’t tenable.
I preparing to take some anti-nausea meds when I hear the haul for Watson.
Some pundits are suggesting it could far outstrip the RW haul. Simply because Watson is 6 years younger.
Never mind he openly fought with Houston mgmt
Never mind he has the stink of his actions all over him
Never mind he will be facing a suspension
Never mind he missed a whole year of football
Never mind he’s got $72m due to him in the next two years
Nope. He’s a young skilled QB smack in his prime. That’s apparently worth more than Russell Wilson.
Yuck.
If the Seahawks do this — it’ll be a dagger in my soul
No worries my friend. You and I can do post game reactions to any team you like. After you and Robbie discuss for the 100th season why a good qb and a crap team is never going to work. Browns, bengals, heck even the broncos.
Pros:
Coach you like
Qb
Really interesting WR’s
Blog favorites in Bolles and williams
Patrick Surtain is maybe gonna be the man
Cons:
That orange can be rough on your eyes if you’re used to blue and grey. But no worse than action green.
Just let me know your size and if we’re doing a bengals reaction I can send you some tiger striped gear.
I hate the Broncos uni’s.
Can’t believe Wilson thought orange was a good choice
They are terrible.
If there’s ever a world where we get a pint I’d love to tell you about the time a woman melted down on me at the grocery store in front of her whole family, rocking an orange tebow jersey and I bust out laughing because she bought an authentic jersey and was loading up like it was the superbowl (wings, nachos, etc,) for his first pre-season game and I was making her late for it.
I still cannot see Watson waiving his no-trade clause for a Seattle trade.
The team doesn’t meet ANY of his listed preferences.
As I said in a prior article, the big padding war has begun and Watson can now choose the team he wants. The Texans will get a massive haul, no matter which team Watson chooses. Cleveland would be his best shot at winning, so I would put them at the forefront, at this point.
Lael Collin’s would fill such a big hole for 3 years, if it takes a mid round pick they should do that.
Think they were saying a fifth rounder. We have two of those.
Even with medical concerns a fifth has to be worth it?
I think so. Although I’m open to alternatives. I just want them to avoid splurging on old players.
Pauline saying any team that wants him at that price just has to throw the Boys a bone:
Dolphins and Bucs reported most interested.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/lael-collins-trade-dolphins-buccaneers-interested-in-dallas-cowboys-offensive-tackle/
Think he will be released. The Cowboys would save an additional 8.5 mio if he is designated as Post June Cut.
The Bengals will also be involved. they have the Money and present huge upside.
Pretty big number.
Even bigger if they pass on Watson and just draft Corral, Willis with a first round pick. Doesn’t work. Oh well. There’s literally the next year.
Hopefully the right price is a sixth round pick.
The Vikings have no leverage and he has one year left on his deal.
Surely the Seahawks wouldn’t fall into a trap here and pay a good pick for him???
Except we don’t have a 6th. Maybe a pick swap, our 5th for their 6th.
Or we get lucky with our 7th rounder
Another great, persuasive write up.
This is going to be a crucial Free Agency for the Seahawks, because to have a great draft they’ll really need to set up a competent team of starters through free agency before doubling down on Best Player Available, through the draft.
I think the dynamic has change completely since Corbin Smith gave this scathing review of John Schneider’s recent free agency acquisitions –
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-report/analysis-ranking-seahawks-previous-5-free-agent-classes#gid=ci02998139b000278d&pid=5-2017
Considering most of the poor drafting in the same period, you really do wonder how he’s still in a job, lets hope he can pull a good free agency out the bag this year.
We haven’t really discussed it (since the Russell Wilson trade changed everything), but the Seahawks should still bolster the pass rush in free agency, allowing us to pivot if needed in the draft. Though now with the #9 pick, the lessons of the 2019 draft still linger.
The criteria of youth should still major in the rebuild, under 30 in a position to take a multi year deal, and in my view, perhaps a player slightly under the radar with a huge upside is Randy Gregory? He hits so hard with his tackling, a good proportion of his sacks become forced fumbles. His off field issues are now receding beyond a year or two, I think he could still break out with double digit sacks in a season . Would certainly add aggression to the team.
Reading up on the Amari Cooper trade however, with the Cap relief the Cowboys now have, perhaps Gregory re-signing for the Cowboys is the most likely outcome?
Randy Gregory would be a terrorizing pass rusher as a OLB for our 3-4.
Emmanuel Ogbah is another player who gets after the QB. Ogbah played DE in the Dolphins 3-4 defense and has 18 sacks in the last two years. At 6ft 4in he is a bit undersized for a 3-4 DE, but he is still good against the run.
Boy that article fills me with confidence that these Bozos will hity a home run in FA (sarcasm). The Tom John son thing was the epitome of a personnel joke. I’d forgotten about that doozy. Nice job Jihn andf Petey.
Pretty scathing stuff and that was all just based upon outside free agents not in house contracts given out. If you factored in the overall poor drafting during those same years its hard to see how said GM doesn’t come under some serious scrutiny for it all.
And now we’re left to hope he’s going to do way better than the past half dozen years during a most crucial rebuild. I for one am really hoping Hurtt and Desai have a big rational say in it all…
Nick Cross’s combine was really eye catching, so I watched some tape. I’m totally on board with Rob’s write up here. I think if he was still there in Rd 3, he’d be a great addition.
Highlighting another player Rob has mentioned in previous articles, I think Free Safety Jon Reid, from the Houston Texans would be a great free agency pick up in the meantime if moving on from Quandre Diggs.
Yes, but do you think he could break the single season sack record for safeties, if we blitz him 10 times per game?
🦚 🦚 🦚
Nah they cannot blitz Bobby in the A Gap anymore haha
More great content, Rob!
I’m really trying hard not to get too excited about FA and the draft because Pete/John have disappointed us so many times with their decision making but still crossing my fingers that they embrace the youth movement and just draft a lot of talent in the next two years!
While most of the recent rumors connected Watson to Seattle and Carolina I just read that the Browns are also keen on adding him.
Browns have the better roster and are prob. closer to contention IMO but would the Texans want to trade him to an AFC Team?
Hope so
I think it’s a bit like the Wilson situation: whatever team he signs off on, you get as much as you can from them and move on.
Exactly
Watson could say he’ll only go to Cleveland, much like it sounds Wilson did for Denver. I’m sure if fair offer they’d take it regardless if it’s in the AFC. I’m guessing the just want to move on.
I’m rooting for Cleveland on this one
In the previous article you talked about the pros & cons of the 4:QBs.
I’m curious about the pros and cons (height excluded) of Russell Wilson prior to his draft.
Was the only knock on him that he was too short or were there other “concerns”?
He lasted to round 3 but was it simply his height?
Post draft alot of “experts” claimed to have loved him and had he been 6’1-6’2 he would have been a top 10 pick, etc…
I’m just wondering how Russ’s pre draft assessments compares to the 4 possibles this year?
Wilson was one of the top college prospects in history, much better than any in this years class. The only thing that anyone could put against him was his height. There just weren’t any previous NFL QBs at his size that were successful. Wilson remade the mold for NFL QBs.
What sold me on Wilson when he came out of college was his touchdown to interception ratio of 33 to 4 and quarterback rating of 192. He was also a good runner with 338 yards. He is incredibly gifted and was a real find in the third round.
Yeah TD to int rate is a huge deal for me. Shows that a guy sees the field and throws to the right guy most of the time…….or if you prefer, decision making.
At the time I had no idea his ratio was that high but I did see him in the Rose Bowl against Oregon and thought “this kid can play”. Didn’t’ think much after that and when Seattle drafted him my thought was “he has a chance” based on what I saw in the Rose Bowl.
It’s 10 years ago now so my memory of that period isn’t great. I remember not really studying him as much as I should’ve done because of the height. I’m guessing a lot of people made the same error.
It was literally his height.
I was never happier with a pick than when they got him. Once we were out of tge luck sweepstakes he was the only qb I wanted. A lot of debates on this site about him or cousins.
Just world class arm talent. Instant captain at WI. Like Rob stared not much breakdown because the flynn signing and us out of the luck running without having really seen early days roster competition it felt like anyones guess what seattle would do.
You have to recall there was no Wilson prior to him. To this day lamar, murray, corral, willis, even Mahomes prior to Wilson none of those guys would pass the typical size/build ideals of a qb.
I think Doug Flutie would have been his historical comparison. They both like to throw the long bomb. I think Brees was playing then??
Even brees got shorted (pun) not intended by his first team. Imagine that. Rivers was very good. But imagine if they had kept brees or brees had gone to miami under saban?
I’m also tempering my enthusiasm…
But alot of how they drafted the last several years felt “don’t screw up our Russell Wilson SB window”.
We would sign veterans and keep the draft picks on the bench.
I hate losing Russ but I’m excited so see what Pete/John do without having Russ Wilson’s opinion to be concerned with.
They can make decisions based solely on what direction THEY want to take the team.
Pay Joseph Noteboom whatever it takes to get him here. Get that deal done 1st. There are 4 vet Centers I’d be fine with because they seem to play well into their mid to 30s.
I’d happily do that
Noteboom — good age, knows the scheme, important position
Do it
I was just listening to a replay of a Combine reaction that Todd McShay and Mel Kiper was hosting. They talked about Abe Lucas and they are in consensus that he’s firmly in the 2nd round. They were shocked some consider him to be a 3rd or 4th rounder. Mel described him as the most ready plug and play RT in the draft.
With that in mind, if you can knock out a LT and get him signed for the next 4-5 years at that age — that would be wonderful. If we are going to embrace a rebuild, might as well let Forsthye and Curhan complete at RT. With this plan, you can target a C in the 2nd round or 3rd with Zach Tom.
You need to reinforce your lines, IMO, to begin a rebuild. Not kick the can down the road.
Agreed. If you don’t get an OT early and if Lucas goes early (I fully expect him to go early) then it’s worth it to target other positions. Sign a LT, draft a C, and roll with Curhan/Forsthye. Don’t you need to see if they can play? IDK. I don’t think it’s an ideal plan but not the worst case scenario.
4 yr contract in the 36-40M rage might be enough to out bid the Rams in retaining him
Obviously, Seattle has been talked about as a Deshaun Watson suitor. Pro’s & con’s as to if Seattle should be in on him. That’s an argument that’s been talked about a ton already.
The Eagles are one of the favorites, aren’t they? If not, they should be. They’ve got the ammo (picks), they’ve explored Watson before & they’ve got an owner who doesn’t mind taking a chance on a player with a checkered past (Vick). If I’m Houston I want tons of picks, not players.
That leads me to my comment. What if the Eagles do strike a deal. What do you think Jalen Hurt’s price would be? A #1(not #9 in ’22)? Two #2’s (one in ’22, one in ’23)? We can debate how high his ceiling is but it’s not like he had a lot of weapons in Philadelphia. He’s young, cheap, athletic, got some upside, Pete loves ‘Bama players, etc.
I could see a potential fit IF Watson goes to the Eagles.
I think Hurts is worth a future late second or maybe a third. Hurts can be successful with a strong running game but I don’t think he is better than Mariota (health permitting). Jimmy G/Wentz are both better QBs, I don’t see that Hurts could tip the scale for more draft picks.
Unless the Hawks believe Hurts can be a legit franchise QB (I don’t think he is), we shouldn’t be trading anything for him. We already have Lock, a young athletic QB that hasn’t shown anything yet, that we can throw out there to see if he fulfils his potential…and he doesn’t cost us any draft picks.
A fourth or fifth rounder
Reportedly the Eagles stopped pursuing him because he wouldn’t waive his trade clause for them. Of course, that could have changed now, but Aaron Wilson just reported this:
Malik Willis flat our refuses to throw over the middle
He has wide open receivers downfield and he still rejects anything over the middle
It’s incredibly frustrating and irritating
But ‘RW never threw over the middle.’
So we’re fine.
(you can’t set me up like that Rob. Too easy)
This is 10x worse, trust me
Let’s hope his “sources” are no good then… 😬
I’m doing a stream with Jeff tomorrow (2pm) so I’ll ask him about it.
I just can’t get on board with Willis. To me he’s this years Justin Fields. Everyone watches a highlights video then thinks he’s amazing. They tweet about him all the time. And they don’t study the tape to understand the flaws, of which there are many.
To me it’s simple. Build this team up. Draft Will Levis next year (and trade up for him if needed).
But won’t Levis possibly be a top 5 pick?
It always costs a fortune to even move up a couple of picks in that range
Not bothered, to be honest.
If you have to move up (might not need to) so be it.
Build the roster up this year. You’ve got the stock to move up next year.
I just hope PC doesn’t spend serious money in FA, bring in a mediocre QB and finish 9-8 🤮
There’s a chance if wilson sucks or we suck we will be picking there anyways. Even if they do what I want and build a great team first we could still have a native top ten pick again next year going 7-10, 6-11.
And if they’ve picked some players with fire and just need a qb i’d be stoked for Levis.
I know this is so wonky it’s hurting me type. But i actually do not like the way Willis runs. It was just two games I watched not highlights but the carelessness reminded me of myriad running qb’s that get hurt.
I won’t doubt that he’s athletic. But something was off and then this year’s combine happened and I could see thanos, wyatt, winfrey, etc just trucking him.
The draft is such a mix of emotions.
You listing great defensive linemen reminds me this draft is full of them. The path to a great defense again is laid out.
The path to being crap is also laid out — by wasting picks on the wrong QB
Rob.
Your content is the only thing keeping my spirits football wise up.
Name after name of players that I hope to whatever people believe in we get. Even that smart move as an exercise for corral but keep the plan building.
This dread of choosing wrong and obliterating the move off of Wilson is killing me. Dreading day one of free agency cause it feels like we will know almost instantaneously which way we are moving forward.
Watched some videos of him on YouTube today. This one said the same thing essentially:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcdKed7y33c
The video said he was sacked 51 times this past season. Pressured 40% of the time. Yikes! The video also had lots of questions about Liberty’s coaching. Definitely raw.
Russ threw to Malcolm Butler over the middle!
This is still probably his best throw over the middle in his career.
Still too soon Bobby. Never won’t be
100% agree.
I’ve banging this drum since the trade went down. There a way too many people that want Willis at 9, I’ve linked to game tape, analysis, and his heatmaps to show why he’s not the QB we should draft in the 1st round, and people still think it’s a good idea comparing him to Russell. Nevermind, ignoring to the technique Wilson had, that Willis does not.
Danielle Hunter is available, apparently:
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1502790410942484480
I’m less interested following the Wilson trade. Just use #9 on a rusher.
Atlanta — you need Danielle Hunter.
Promise.
Yes…I’m worried they may take Johnson.
Also my fear.
I’d jump them if needs be.
This is the guy:
https://youtu.be/XWZ3wNd_wrU
And he was one of the Georgia boys…What are they feeding those guys down there? Smart decision of him to leave the program. He got more playing time and now is a 1st rounder.
Doesn’t have the quickest get off but man those heavy hands…
Really interested in the pro day numbers. Great build for an end to pair with Taylor. Those two seem like they would feed off each other.
Not sure about that. There are clips at the Senior Bowl where he is the quickest off the snap. And his hands aren’t just heavy, they are lightning quick. For a guy his length and apparent leanness, he seems to anchor pretty darn well, too.
This is a player I want.
Best bet on yourself I’ve seen in a long time. Rotational, unremarkable linebacker at georgia. Forego a championship win to bet on yourself and become a first round DE.
I’ll be disappointed if we don’t target a top tier edge rusher from this draft with our first pick, unless we grab a QB and he turns out to be franchise QB. All these mock drafts have us taking a CB which I just don’t get. Build up the trenches, having a defense that can get after the QB is extremely valuable as we all know.
I’m sayin’
Wow the highlights remind me of Clowny but with a much better ability to find the qb. His change of direction is off the charts.
If Watson is out of legal trouble why Texans are looking to trade him? Any known reason?
Did you forget Watson refuses to play for the Texans?
Thanks I was not aware.
Add that to the list of reasons why I don’t want him.
Wilson was a headache but kept playing. Watson held out because he wasn’t getting his way.
Pass on watson. I say load up on young talent and get Minshew. Minshew will be better in 2022 than any drafted QB and then target Levis.
Love Minshew compare to cousins and other. Short term he will be perfect
Per CJ Golson, Watson and his camp are all in on forcing a trade to the Steelers. Don’t know how legit this is, but am hoping it’s true!
If the Panthers can’t provide what Watson needs then I don’t understand why people keep linking the Seahawks to Watson.
It’s not legit in any way, shape or form.
A pretend internet insider.
If you think back to the first build up of the team, they addressed LB and S early in the draft (Thomas Wagner), CB in the middle rounds (Sherm) and then spent money on the DL in FA and through trades (Clem, Bennett, Avril, Mebane was a holdover from the last regime). Kind of opposite of their approach on offense where they spend money at skill positions and then try and plug and play OL (other than Okung because LTs dont grow on trees).
Could see something similar happen.
Independent of what may or may not have happened with Watson off the field, I really don’t want it to happen.
Of course there’s the risk that PCJS blow it, but I feel re-energized by the unknown and the accumulation of cap space a draft equity. To turn around and spend much of it on Watson would be deflating.
Spend 2022 making the roster more complete, deeper and robust with young, hungry talent. Don’t force the QB spot, but if it comes to you -cool.
If you need to make an aggressive push for a QB in 2023 , so it. But, personally, I want young, inexpensive, home grown, guys who will approach Pete with a fresh ear.
PCJS inherited a worse roster and asset situation in 2010 then they have now. Do it again, just please learn to stop trading value for other team’s unhappy stars. It worked with Duane only, and set the franchise back the other times. Bargain shop again – Clemons, Clint McDonald, Marshawn.
I’m excited. 2-3 years go quick.
Deshaun + Pete just gets you back to double digit wins, the occasional division title, but never truly contending. Sounds familiar.
Wish more people in the pro watson camp would go back and cast their mind to 2020.
And remember how ‘fun’ it was when Wilson threw for 40 tds and ran for 500 yds….and we still got bounced as quick as we could from the playoffs.
I truly get the emotional side of it.
But I have zero interest in watching the last four years repeat itself for another 2-3 before the team is FINALLY back in a position to actually draft players and build a roster. 6-7 years of one of the crappiest defenses in the league, a garbage oline which I think Watson and his bad knees is going to love, and the dallas’/homers of the world trying to run when the others are out.
Nah. Not for me.
Last time Watson started they finished 4-12.
Not saying it was his fault. Of course it wasn’t.
But I bet Seattle never sniffs 4-12 under Wilson.
Rob first of all you are 💯 percent correct orange is a terrible color.i have zero point zero friends who claim orange is there favorite color.second I remember once a few years ago Pete was talking with Pat Kirwin and saying I find big guys and I can find fast guys but it’s it’s difficult to find big fast guys.maybe if Jordan Davis is still on the board when the Seahawks draft it wouldn’t surprise me if the Seahawks went in that direction.And Rob I really appreciate everything you do thank you are
Doing a tremendous job.
Thanks 👍🏻
I am not sure if has brought up this possible free agent but do you have any thoughts on Eric Fisher the left tackle from the colts. I think he is 31 years old not sure if Duane Brown is coming back.he was unable to agree on a contract with the colts.
Would be interested for sure
I’ve been banging this drum for two years now! I would really like to see them acquire him and let him be the guy for the next 4-5 years
Rob mentioned Tyrod Taylor as a potential vet “bridge” QB.
But if the panthers really do trade for Watson, how about Cam Newton?
Cam’s done
I’d love it. Tank, tank, tank!
A lot of focus on targeting an EDGE at 9, and for good reason I would very much support that move.
However I also keep finding myself coming back to big Jordan Davis. I just watched this video: https://youtu.be/S8n_uXQ8OAM
Which highlighted a few things that should be of great importance as we rebuild this defense, with the move to more 2 high safety looks, we’ll have less of numbers advantage against the run. Davis’ ability to control 2 gaps plus his athleticism to chase down outside runs becomes invaluable. You can keep 2 safties high to stop the pass and not be victimised in run defense as a consequence.
This is all not to mention how he is a 1 of 1 athlete at his position withh a clear opportunity to be the best NT in the league very quickly. Give me a shot at the best player in the league at something and I want to take it.
EDGE would remain a need but there is enough depth at that position to be filled with our next pick, even if you have to trade up for a specific guy. Imagine using your first 3 picks on Davis, Mafe and your LB of choice. We’d have the makings of one of best young front 7s in the league.
I really, really like Davis but I have a hard time with this unless you sign someone like Chandler Jones first.
The EDGE options in round two are not as good as people think. I don’t want another year with an inadequate pass rush. The chance to finally solve this issue for years to come can’t be turned down IMO.
For me it has to be Thibodeaux or Johnson at #9. I would even jump up to #7 if needed to get one of them.
I think the Shelby Harris addition all but rules out a high DT pick too. If they wanted another one I would see who’s available in the 20’s and consider moving up.
The Jamal Adams trade is a killer, once again, because the idea of getting an EDGE then taking Davis would’ve been mind-blowing.
I think the presence of Davis will make all the pass rushers we currently have, or were to add, look a whole lot better when they consistently get to rush the QB in 3rd and long situations.
To be clear though, I would not complain a bit about KT or Johnson. I just think Davis stands to be one of the most unique difference makers in the whole league.
Again though, I don’t want to end up knocking Davis. But there’s no way Seattle’s edge rush is elevated by his presence. What he will do is absorb the middle and make them very difficult to run against. Plus he has extremely rare quickness to shoot gaps for his size. He catches O-lines by surprise in that regard. But he’s been a two-down player who doesn’t play key passing downs. Even if an opponent double teams him up the middle, it’s not making any difference as to what happens at the edges. We need guys who can win 1v1 battles off the edge and we haven’t had that for years.
Aaron Donald impacts the edge because the Rams line him up in different spots and they are very good at creating off Donald’s positioning and shifting protection to free up opportunities. Davis is a nose. He’s just a nose.
The Seahawks shouldn’t even consider other positions at #9 IMO. They should do whatever it takes to come away with one of the top pass rushers in this draft.
If you have great edge rushers, then for me I think you consider a super-athletic nose.
Even then — I’d be just as tempted to go after Devonte Wyatt. Because he’s going to be a better pass rusher. He has Geno Atkins qualities. If Wyatt lasts late into the first, I would consider moving up. Wyatt, Johnson & Taylor would be intense.
My point about how he elevates the pass rush is less about getting double teams and more about how he allows you to drop 2 safeties deep on early downs without worrying about the run, giving the pass rush more time, and the increased frequency of 3rd and long situations where the pass rush has the advantage.
I do agree edge is the most logical move for this team and normally be right there with you, I’m just finding it hard not to have my head turned by that dude. No complaints either way though.
Ultimately though they’ve just got to have better people rushing the edge regardless of the setup. After watching Nick Bosa and Chandler Jones for years, I want our version.
Prior to Landry resigning who I had hoped Seattle could make a run on part of me could see them trading down in the first.
I take it to mean that the lack of top ten pick has kept them out of premium talent but I could also see it meaning that lack of a high pick has kept them from aquiring more picks.
It’s not just that Seattle needs a KT or Johnson (my preference,) it’s that once they trade down I truly can not see how they improve one of their least productive areas on the team. Least productive btw is being kind. Seattle’s pass rush last season was an absolute joke….to the point where it’s got me writing ‘think piece’ comments on Rashhem Green’s value since his six sacks make him tied for second best pass rusher on the team…that bad.
I would hope if they are trading down they are targeting Wyatt. Maybe Shelby Harris is a bit of a hedge in that regards?
I’d rather them go Johnson at nine and come roaring back into the first round to get Wyatt (someone else that might fit the bill ?) than chance it to drop down miss on both and start back pedaling, ala, Collier.
If it were me…I’d skip the ‘trader john’ junk. Stand pat at nine. Take Johnson. Wait til 40, 41 where a clutch of talent is and be proud to have made great picks.
The only way they trade down IMO is if the guy they would take at 9 is going to be there at say 12. Or there are two players they have matched identically at DE.
Tough to have DE’s matched. Thibodeux and Johnson are a match. Trayvon Walker is a freaky athlete but I’m a little down in his production though I can see Pete making heart eyes at him. Detroit with Hutchinson just makes too much sense. And Mafe, the arm length….though as an aside I’d like the team to do a third arm measurement. 1/2inch swing between two events is too much for me.
It would be sickening if the idiots who dug the Seahawks into this hole decided to jump in there with Watson. Really would just about be me done, a total betrayal of everything they claim to stand for. Go out and load up on, get fast and violent on both sides of the ball, time to get bigger/stronger/faster again. Build a team that can impose its will, then grab a chippy quarterback who will be fun enough in ’23, and good, aggressive, competition in ’24 when you try to find an actual guy.
No reason to believe this front office has what it takes to identify and draft proper talent at this point, but you never know. I think I’ll probably start to take them really seriously again when Carroll lets his failson go coach somewhere else, and let’s go of all his old USC mates.
If the Seahawks trade for Watson, I think a lot of people will be done. No exaggeration.
It would split the fan base in a way ‘Let Russ Cook’, ‘Fire Pete’ and ‘Running backs don’t matter’ can only dream of.
The Seahawks would be toxic.
💯
They’re not gonna do it.
Looking at the list of free agent qbs… one name that stands out is Mike White. Preformed pretty well for the Jets filling in for Zach Wilson. I’d imagine nyj will want to resign. He seems like a candidate to throw into the “rebuild year” qb competition mix.
Sure why not.
Plus I have a 49ers friend called Mike White. So the banter would be hilarious.
Rob, what is your take on Wagners gripe that PCJS didn’t tell him he was being cut. ? I don’t buy it as much of anything.
According to Softy, what happened was someone close to Wagner told him a couple of days before the release that it was a distinct possibility. And he read that as ‘I found out from someone else’.
People who visit this site know I’ve been critical of PCJS and don’t defend them for the sake of it. I suspect this is a bit of twitter bitterness that has created more of a storm than it deserves.
Thanks. As I suspect. Bobby is his own agent. He should also communicate on his behalf.
Agree. This has some sort of unfortunate but not malign miscommunication written all over it.
Anyway, Bobby Wagner is an intelligent man. He must have known the second he inked the contract the third year would depend on him continuing to play at an elite level. There are niceties, I guess, but he knew this was coming.
Ya. I cannot fathom PCJS intending any disrespect towards Wagner. He’s been the most dependable guy for a decade and they know that. Unfortunate he feels/felt that way and hope it’ll be water under the bridge soon.
My guess is he is a bit emotional (understandable) and disappointed and has probably been talking to the wrong people (Sherman)
Thank you, Dan Graziano:
“Seattle has checked in on the situation, but most people I talk to don’t expect the Seahawks to be seriously in the Watson mix.”
https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/33488558/free-agency-trade-buzz-latest-baker-mayfield-other-qbs-teams-ready-spend-receiver-market-more
Let’s hope he is right.
Rapoport says Panthers & Saints have made offers for Watson and are meeting with him soon:
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1503036333769383938
This will be very interesting. The Saints are $6m over the cap and have about $45m or so available to restructure. They’d have to give Watson a big bonus and get him down to about $15-20m.
While trading all their major draft capital for the next couple years.
Will be interesting to watch the experiment on someone else’s dime.
Let’s get done Saints or Carolina
I think it’s a plausible theory that the Saints know how determined the Panthers are and so are only “in it” to drive up the price a division rival has to pay…
What a relief. That was my hope all along, that they were doing their due diligence (because you have to when you need a QB), but backed out as soon as the price went past a couple firsts.
Hey Rob, if Kyle Hamilton was available at #9 due to his combine performance, would you take him over some of the DE’s expected to be available then (e.g., Jermaine Johnson)?
I would not.
Wouldn’t even be a consideration for me.
If I’m picking the best safety in this draft, I’m picking Lewis Cine.
I’d rather have Nick Cross than Hamilton.
Should get a lot of answers in next 24 hrs. Rob if you could choose between Trabisky, Mariota, or Geno being a bridge QB for us, who would you prefer?
Not Rob but i prefer Mariota or Trubisky. No Geno even as backup.
I’m done with Geno
No more
Not Rob.
I’d rather just give Lock the snaps. If I had to choose, probably Mariota. But also would be cognisant of cap hit. Realizing that none will will likely blossom into a full fledged starter, I could see electing for the cheapest option for camp competition (ie Geno).
Yep, that’s where I’m at also. I could definitely see Geno being given a chance since he’ll be cheap and seems to be liked in the locker room.
Starting tomorrow what ever “Plan” the Hawks had for dumping RW and BW will be revealed. Rob has said multiple times – they wouldn’t have made that move without a succession plan at QB. That is what scares me. From my seat their is no viable succession QB that would make a bit if difference this season. I think they should avoid a big splurge in FA and build the roster with good young under the radar roster pieces. Randy Gregory intrigues me. He is 29 and picking him up could free up the Hawks to draft Jordan Davis.
FA will tell the story of our “plan” – worried PC can’t get behind a rebuild.
Compensation for Watson estimated
“Pelissero reported that the Texans’ asking price for Watson has not waivered — three first-round picks and additional assets — and multiple teams currently are willing to meet that price.”
Nice of him to do the Texans a favor in passing on that information…
Scary times for seattle.
But I wouldn’t touch that deal. Watson has the vibe of a guy that will be in some trouble sooner or later and a team killer if and when he decides he’s a 50 million a year qb.
Kirwan over at Sirius NFL was saying last week that the *starting* point for Watson discussions (per the NFL GM grapevine) was Houston demanding 3 firsts and two players of *their* choice from your roster.
With all the speculation that Pete does not want to do a rebuild at his age, I would think that a rebuild with young, aggressive players is the exact thing he lives for. He did it successfully in college. He did it successfully with Seattle.
Now that he isn’t being hindered baby the ego of a franchise QB, what’s to stop him from embracing the very thing that made him a near living legend? He is a motivator of young men. A rebuild is the ecpxact scenario where that is most crucial.
Add in the fact that he had a bit of a mea culpa about the defense, his specialty, and I’m looking at the ideal situation for Pete’s skill set, as long as they remember what got them to SB48. Good drafts and wisely spending in FA.
He definitely seemed to have a revitalized energy at his last presser if that counts for anything.
Agreed on these points. Pete’s an odd duck, and a bit contrarian. Wonder if all the “he’ll never do a rebuild” talk irks him enough to do just that. Also, hard to fathom that he’d choose to go from one QB hassle messing with his vision (and his cap) to another. Guess we’ll see one way or another very soon.
If he did actually rebuild another juggernaut, that certainly would shoo him into the HOF, one would think.
😂 Smokescreens are real, folks. But amongst all those there are some actual nuggets. Just have to have enough common sense to dig them out.
I’ve paid two sites for McGinn’s work which I appreciate. But I’m not completing the hat trick
I think I’m glad I don’t understand this reference.
Golf sim offered this for #9 Det: #32, #34, and 2023 #1
Would this be attractive? If we lose for Levis – this type of deal may help?
You could get quite a few players in that range. But we already have two firsts next year.
W/o getting into what happens in Denver, our own team looks to heading into top ten pick territory on it’s own next year. So I’m not sure i would do it.
Oof. Only if front office felt the depth at pass rush/D-Line was sufficient at 32 compared Johnson or Davis. If not, we’d just package those to trade right back up in the 1st. Which is obviously not worth it in that case.
A Detroit 2023 1st is nothing to scoff at though. Could be high, but higher than 9? No guarantees.
I would take that deal.
Rob first of all thanks for continuing to do amazing work. I’d be a mess post Wilson trade if it wasn’t for you.
Thoughts on Jerome Ford RB from Cincinnati?
Expected better testing results. He has a disappointing profile
Rob, fantastic work. Much appreciated.
Not sad RW is gone. There was no path forward out of the first round with him onboard. Truth.
Would be more excited than I have been in a very long time if we got Johnson/Tindall/ Cross. Not as high on Chanel. Would rather have Taylor-Britt and think Kerry Joseph would be interchangeable with Cross. All guys you identified.
Not as worried to fill the QB slot. You and others have identified decent stopgap alternatives. QB next year. Build the defense first. Great options this year.
Dear Deshaun Watson,
You hold all the cards in a trade. Figure out where you want to go and pull a Russel Wilson (lower the compensation your new team will have to give up by vetoing offers from ANY other teams). What if he said he’s going to X team, but he’ll only allow HOU to receive a 2nd rounder in compensation. He obviously wants to leave HOU. But, are they really going to hang on to him as a paid inactive for another year? At least the Hawks didn’t mind keeping Wilson if the trade compensation wasn’t right.
This could make for an interesting game of poker.