Kyler Fackrell could be a target for the Seahawks
We’ve run through a lot of different topics recently and if you missed anything I wanted to do a quick recap here:
Why agility testing could provide answers for Seattle’s O-line draft intentions
Reviewing Bronson Kaufusi, Jonathan Bullard and Emmanuel Ogbah
The Seahawks are meeting with Jonathan Bullard, so what does this mean?
A seven round Seahawks mock draft
Tyler Ervin is a running back Seahawks fans need to monitor
Will the Seahawks focus on upgrading their interior O-line?
Yesterday we looked at how agility could play an important part in Seattle’s rebuilt O-line. With Russell Wilson’s improvisation skills — blocking on the move is vital. Agility is tested at the combine in the three cone and short shuttle.
It was suggested to me that the Seahawks also value explosion on their O-line (represented mainly by the 10-yard splits and broad jump). Of the players we highlighted, Joe Haeg had the fourth best broad jump at the combine, Cody Whitehair the sixth and Connor McGovern the eighth. Germain Ifedi and Joe Dahl also performed well in the broad jump. These players are agile and explosive.
There’s a very good chance the Seahawks will go O-line at #26 and we’ll look at why in a new mock draft this week. However, some people have suggested in the comments section that they could go defense in the first two rounds and actually wait until the third round to address the offensive line.
It’s unlikely — and I’ll explain why below. I still wanted to use today’s piece to look at this scenario.
Entitled first rounders
Whether you like it or not, Seattle’s O-line is set up to run the ball effectively first and foremost. There’s nothing finesse about the scheme or style of play. The Seahawks generally focus on grit and character in the draft — but it seems even more important when selecting offensive linemen.
The scheme is just so physically demanding. Much more so than many other teams in the league. It’s no surprise that on top of Russell Okung’s regular issues, James Carpenter, Max Unger and Breno Giacomini missed games through injury.
A certain attitude is required to play O-line for this team. It’s an attitude that perhaps doesn’t lend itself to a lot of pampered first round prospects. That’s not to say the Seahawks won’t spend an early pick on the O-line. In Tom Cable’s tenure they’ve already spent a first, second and third round pick on the line. It’s maybe telling though that they’re currently planning to start three undrafted free agents and a fourth round pick unless the rookies come in and win jobs immediately.
Perhaps Cable likes the mindset of a guy with something to prove? A player not earning millions — someone who maybe appreciates they don’t know everything already? Someone not only willing to be coached up — but someone also willing to do the hard graft this scheme requires?
Some first round prospects will have that attitude. Some won’t.
Options in round three
Yesterday we identified three solid options for the Seahawks that could be available in rounds 2-3. We can perhaps add one more name to the list.
Tony Pauline is currently projecting Joe Haeg in round three, Connor McGovern and Evan Boehm in round four and Joe Dahl in rounds 4-5. With the Seahawks picking at the end of each round, there’s a chance they’ll have to take these guys a little earlier than projected here.
Does Haeg make it to the end of the third? Do they take the two Missouri blockers? Do they consider Joe Dahl? All four players are versatile, tough, good in the run game and play with a spark. If the Seahawks want to add competition to the interior line with players that can also play tackle — this could be a way to do it in round three.
Defense wins Championships
Kip Earlywine brought the following information to my attention. Here’s how Football Outsiders ranked the offensive line performance of all the Super Bowl winners during the Pete Carroll era:
DEN: 17th run, 13th pass
NE: 5th run, 2nd pass
SEA: 9th run, 32nd pass
BAL: 6th run , 13th pass
NYG: 28th run, 6th pass
GB: 23rd run, 21st pass
Average: 14.8 run, 14.5 pass (league average is 16.5)
Now lets compare this to defense:
DEN: 1st
NE: 12th (Seattle was 1st)
SEA: 1st
BAL: 19th (SF was 3rd)
NYG: 19th
GB: 2nd
Average: 9.0
Pass defense:
DEN: 1st
NE: 12th (Seattle was 3rd)
SEA: 1st
BAL: 13th (SF was 6th)
NYG: 19th
GB: 1st
Average: 7.8
Kip’s information highlights a key factor. None of the Super Bowl winning teams in recent seasons fielded an elite performing offensive line. The Patriots’ stats in 2014 were undoubtedly more indicative of a top-tier passing game led by arguably the greatest quarterback to play the game.
Alternatively, it’s the teams playing great defense that have generally prospered. Even the Packers, impressively led by Aaron Rodgers in 2010, had the #2 ranked defense in the league and top ranked passing defense.
When you consider the two starting O-lines in this years Super Bowl, it further illustrates the importance of defense and not necessarily the offensive front. The four offensive tackles starting in Super Bowl 50 were Michael Oher, Mike Remmers, Ryan Harris and Michael Schofield.
How many of that quartet are emphatically better than Garry Gilliam and J’Marcus Webb?
That said — the Seahawks are still likely to want much greater O-line competition in camp than they had in 2015. The big question is whether they feel they can achieve that waiting until the 90th pick in the draft?
So after all of that, why is it unlikely to happen?
There’s no guarantee the players you want for the O-line will last until the back end of round three. Imagine if you take two defensive prospects in rounds 1-2 — and then your guys quickly leave the board. Is it really worth failing to address the O-line sufficiently by rolling the dice in this way?
After all — it’s not like the Seahawks are talent deficient on defense. They still have Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Bobby Wagner, K.J. Wright, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. This is a core group any team would be proud of. Add in the expected progression of Frank Clark, the fact you kept Jeremy Lane and Ahtyba Rubin and the likely addition of at least one highly drafted rookie — and there’s no real reason to ignore the offensive line and take any risks.
Also, if the Seahawks want to add two offensive linemen (which seems pretty likely) before the inevitable dip in talent (which is expected to occur after round three) — going DEF-DEF-OL-OL would mean pushing running back into day three. They might be comfortable with that — but it’s not a great class of runners. If you take two O-liners and a defensive player with your first three picks — you at least have the flexibility to consider running back in round three.
Even if it’s unlikely, what would a double-dip defensive draft look like?
It would probably mean something like Jonathan Bullard (DE, Florida) at #26 and Kyler Fackrell (LB, Utah State) at #56. Then they would have to hope two of Joe Haeg, Connor McGovern or Evan Boehm are there in round three — or only take one offensive lineman and hope someone like Joe Dahl lasts until the end of the fourth.
The idea of adding two guys like Bullard and Fackrell is very appealing. It’s a nice thought as long as the O-line options were there in round three. It’s just such a big gamble and surely one the Seahawks won’t take.
There’s one other thing to consider on this subject. You can certainly make a case for Jonathan Bullard being Seattle’s first round pick. Ditto Sheldon Rankins. There is at least some chance neither player will be available at #26. And when you consider the alternatives — all of the better players in that late first round range play offense. It’s not improbable for Cody Whitehair, Germain Ifedi, Taylor Decker, Ryan Kelly and Shon Coleman to all be available. Two or three certainly will be.
Pair this with the overall depth on the defensive line this year and the possibility Fackrell lasts until #56 — and it pretty much makes sense for the Seahawks to go O-line first and defense second. Either way — going OL-DL or DL-OL in the first two rounds feels almost inevitable.
It seems unlikely they wait on either area until round three. Address both needs in the top-60 and at least you aren’t going to miss out altogether.
I really really like this piece. It will be so fun and nerve racking to watch it go down, I wish the draft was this Friday. The great thing is there are a bunch of guys I think we all like in the 2nd-3rd round…McGovern, Dahl, Haeg, Boehm, Glasgow…if things fell right we could go defense in R1 and R2 and still get two really good O-linemen in round 3. But as you said that isn’t ideal, we’d miss out on a good RB more than likely.
My favorite variation is still:
R1: OL
R2: OL
R3: DL/Ervin
R3: DL/Ervin
I realize more likely is this:
R1: OL
R2: DL
R3: OL/Ervin
R4: OL/Ervin
however I don’t like that version as much because I think we could miss out on McGovern, who could be THE offensive linemen to get in this draft for us.
If the Hawks want to give Wilson a fair shot at putting the team on his back and taking them to similar heights as Lynch, they will have to improve pass protection from leagues worst to perhaps average.
Can the Hawks field an OL which is top 10 in run blocking and top 20-25 in pass blocking? More importantly can do that and still field a top 5 defense? I believe it’s possible but the OL will take time.
I think this the more likely progression:
R1: Trade down + RD4 pick
R2: DL
R2: OL
RD3: DL/RB
RD3: OL/RB
RD4: LB/OL/WR (why not?)
That’s not a bad scenario and Nathan’s isn’t bad, either.
I also can’t wait for Thursday, April 28, and for Comm. Goodell to put the Titans on the clock!
I like this scenario… 2 2nds 2 3rds and a 4th!!! Schneider would kill with this… Get at least 2, most likely 3 good players
Love this scenario but I would prefer two early OL picks:
R1: Trade down + RD4
R2: Bullard (base rotational edge/sub inside rush)
R2: Coleman (future RT)
R3: McGovern (middle of the line comp)
R3: Ervin
R4: NT (Mebane replacement since DT group is so deep)
I keep hearing that you can get a better player on the O-line in this round or this round.
When has JS/PC ever cared about popular opinion or what round to take a guy? They’re at the draft to swing for the fences and draft in advance of future FAs.
BTW, Bronson Kaufusi’s hand speed is unreal.
My point is, who cares if it’s an O-lineman in round 1?
In this piece the only thing said is you might be able to get a better O-liner in the first than a defensive player in the same spot.
Oh, I see how that came out.
I didn’t mean your pieces, but Seahawks twitter in general.
FWIW, I agree and do think they take an O-lineman in the 1st. It’s the biggest weakness on this team, and BPA at a need position is how they address the early rounds. No matter what NFL media big boards look like.
That’s what I failed to get across.
I apologize if it came out wrong, which it did.
No problem man 🙂
Possible that Joe Haeg continues to rise?
Probable
I’m not a huge fan of Haeg’s tape but the way he tested, there’s a chance. I think third round is his range.
I agree completely, there are difference makers to be had at the back end of round 1 why would we ignore that?
I certainly like the idea of going either OL/DL or DL/OL with the first two picks. That is the preferred way to go. It could be tempting to go Defense with the first two picks. But the LAST thing anyone wants is for Russell Wilson to either: Spend time on the DL or spend all his time for being chased by defensive lineman.
You can’t really worry about how quality of oline impacts the QBs ability to stay healthy. When QBs get hurt it is largely because they are already fragile, or on a fluke play.
Romo and Dalton were the two most impactful QB games missed due to injury in the NFL; Dallas and Cincy have two of the most heavily invested olines in the NFL.
Good point
Russell really knows how to take a hit – his compact frame in some ways is beneficial j think in this regard. Running back run in the 5″10 range and have to takes tons of hits.
Ugg sorry about the typos – but you get the train of thought
BTW – I like OL in Rd1 – seems like there’s a talent pool there in the draft that won’t be available with our late 2nd red pick….
One of the more interesting things I’ve been looking at over the weekend is Bennett and Avril’s snap counts. In 2013, when we won it all, Bennett only played around 50% of the snaps… now he’s close to 85 or 90%. We need to rotate Bennett and Avril out more. It’s not a surprise that we’re not getting consistent pressure late in games and our defense suffers for it by blowing leads. Plus, we all remember Super Bowl 49, where after Avril left the game, Brady could throw with impunity and our vaunted #1 defense allowed the Patriots to claw their way back in the game.
I think as much as we’d like to focus on DT and then go all in for O-line, that DE might be a bigger need than we’d think. We need more depth to keep our main guys fresh and to force opposing QBs into more bad decisions. It’s not a surprise that our issues with TEs were exposed and our INT numbers are plummeting because we’re not as ferocious up front.
After the 2013 season, one of the first things Pete Carroll said was they underused Michael Bennett and they were going to make sure he had a lot more snaps going forward.
I doubt limiting his snap count is something they want to go back to. He’s a guy that is so good you don’t take him off the field. You don’t spell guys like Bennett and J.J. Watt unless you have to.
Maybe get him from 85% to 70% would keep his impact higher. I’m just tired of watching our defense give up drives in the 4th quarter, with the 4 man rush not even close to getting home. The rotation in 2013 allowed us to send guys in waves.
Von Miller only played 76% of the snaps in 2015, Kawann Short only 69%, Ezekiel Ansah 62%…
Not that Bennett isn’t amazing, but I’d want a more effective Michael Bennett versus a gassed one, even if that meant pulling Bennett for some drives in the 3rd quarter so he could be a terror in the 4th quarter.
J.J. Watt played 96% of the snaps for Houston though. I would argue Bennett is as crucial to Seattle as Watt is to Houston.
For me I didn’t notice Bennett gassed at any point last season. I wouldn’t want him playing less than 85% of the snaps because he’s too good. And Carroll referenced specifically after 2013 they wanted Bennett on the field more.
The big improvement they need to make is replacing the interior production they had in 2013 with McDonald (5.5 sacks) and 2014 from Hill (5.5 sacks). Hill had zero sacks in 2015.
That’s the key right there: interior rush.
It’s all about the interior rush IMO.
Dominance waned as interior push evaporated. Still good enough to lead in scoring. But other indicators — namely interceptions and game losing drives — indicate the consequence of that.
When we’re talking interior rusher, Hargrave is at the top of the class.
It does seem like the ferociousness of the pass rush did wane towards the end of games last season during the stretch where we gave up 4th quarter leads though I have no data to back that up with. Thinking Panthers and Bengals game in particular (as well as Rams) where the QB was able to just drop back and pick apart the secondary with no pressure. Maybe it may be worth playing Avril and Bennett less early in the game during base downs to keep them fresher late in the game if needed. This may especially be impactful now that Chip is coaching SF and we will undoubtedly be facing HUNH at least 2x a year.
As much as I agree that d wins games, o isn’t an after thought. I say we go ol in the first with someone like ifedi then grab someone like kafusi in the second. That addresses both needs and leaves us the option to get ervin in the 3rd with another o line before the drop off. Our existing lb’s will be fine for the time with someone like freeny possibly falling due to injury concerns. I still don’t want to give up on pinkins. Say what you will but if he can put it together after a couple years I wouldn’t be surprised. He made the switch to lb and would provide us with a nice cover option hard hitter that we want. I can’t see us going any other way, but this is pc/js we are talking about.
Taking one offensive lineman and one defensive lineman in the first two rounds is the way to go. Then take Tyler Ervine and another offensive lineman in the third round. 4th round take either Travis Freeney (if he is still on the board) or the best run stuffing defensive tackle. 5th round take the best defensive player or offensive lineman on the board. Players that Schneider takes in the 6th/7th rounds are players that I have usually never heard. These are players that are NOT in any of these NFL draft magazines that come out.
Players in the 6th/7th round are players that have some special quality. Last year Seattle took Obum Gwacham and Kristjan Sokoli in the 6th round. Gwacham played wide receiver at Oregon State. The Hawks wanted to convert Gwacham to role similiar to what Bruce Irvin played. Sokoli was a defensive tackle that Cable to trying to convert to a center.
I wouldn’t take Freeney in the 4th he would be more of a wounded warrior project round pick at 5 to 7.
Right after the combine Rob had Seattle taking Freeney in the 2nd round.
obum was not a starter @ WR. He was a Defensive end for at least 1-2 years before being drafted. Also he was not drafted to be a LB, We picked him as a LEO option.
I didn’t say that Obum was a starter at wide receiver. I said he played wide receiver at Oregon State. At Oregon State Obum had 23 tackles on defense. He also had 11 career receptions.
I’m all for taking an O lineman in the first round if it is the best player on their board. However, if a player like Keanu Neal is there at 26 and the Seahawks feel like they can trade up in round 2 to get Shone Coleman, I would very happy with that result.
1) Keanu Neal
2) Shon Coleman
3) Tyler Ervin
3) Graham Glasgow
I like that a lot
Where do you see Coleman going? How far of a trade up you thinking I really like that kid.
Might lose the Glasgow pick to get the Coleman pick and gave to settle for Dahl in the 4th
*have
Sold. I’m a sucker for Neal.
1 month away..
Yup, can’t wait! I’m actually also curious about not just the Hawks, but also about where the QB’s Wentz, Goff, and Lynch will go. Does Tennessee go with Tunsil w/ 1st overall, or a guy like Ramsey? Where do Ezekiel Elliott and Derrick Henry go? Who will be crazy enough to take Nkemdiche (maybe Rex Ryan)?
Lots of interesting questions…
Interesting tidbit I picked up watching Ifedi interview.
Patrick Lewis of the Hawks actually made up the TAMU nickname for the OLs; Maroon Goons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWnSuKGK4CM
Germain is a killer interview.
Thanks for this!
People always say check out Aashhdkjs Bewfjk From AWHEH State but never have a link hahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOiNRYZmxYo
SEC media days Ifedi addresses playing RT vs LT at TAMU
Just very well spoken and thoughtful. Sounds like a leader when talking about trying different OL combinations and shoring up problems the unit had in the run game.
Ifedi is an intelligent guy, well spoken.
Most impressive interviewer I’ve seen in this draft though so far is Jonathan Bullard.
Rob, can I get a link to any futbol pieces you’ve put out recently? Do you cover/watch MLS?
I don’t cover MLS, I watch it occasionally.
This is me commentating on a game for the BBC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITct-8svXh8
Cool thanks very much!
That was cool, Rob.
I, too, was disappointed that he didn’t take the shot, Robby.
Go Hawks.
You definitely couldn’t throw an MLS team in there and expect them to be very competitive.
Sunday 5:30am here in Seattle, Leicester City and Southampton. Looking forward to watch it, although I will probably not be up to watch the beginning.
That’s excellent commentary Rob. MLS pundits talk crap all game – never letting the action speak for itself. Instead of documenting the game, they feel the space must be filled with inane chatter (not all MLS commentary mind, and Ray Hudson is my least favourite of all time, but that’s for another time). 😉
Thanks Brad
Rob what about Yannik Ngakoue from Maryland. I think he checks the production box and is young. Not many pass rushers but he might be one not discussed here.
I am curious about him as well. Great production and seems to be an above average athlete. He seems to really be flying under the radar. What am I missing with him/
Not a huge fan personally. Didn’t see an explosive edge rusher. He kind of plays how he tested at the combine — middling.
A couple months ago I went out on a limb and compared Yannick to the late Derrick Thomas and I still think that.
This is a crazy idea but I just had to throw it out there. Take that 26 pick and trade down I don’t care if its a early 4th. a 3rd would be nice but not necessary. Now I maybe reaching to begin with but how about a
McGovern
DT
Haeg
Ervin
Dahl
I could live with this
I have been contemplating a tradedown, but it seems the broncos and seahawks are targeting Ifedi.
If I’m GM, I don’t want to leave this draft without Ifedi. Personal preference we have enough picks. We need an impact player and Ifedi is heads and shoulders the most likely to greatly upgrade a position of need at that point in the draft. For me, no player outside of Tunsil has the same potential as Ifedi.
OT player has greater potential**
Kenny,The Broncos are more likely to go for a QB (Lynch). They are actually more of a possible trade partner or the incentive for a team to trade up with us than a risk of garbing our OL pick.
How about McGovern, Willie Henry, Haeg, Ervin, Dahl? I like the sound of that a lot!
The most logical thing to do is go offense/defense or defense/offense in the first two rounds. No two ways about it. I’d love to go Whitehair/Fackrell or Bullard/Martin. That’d bring us to the third round with an OL and pass rusher. We could still go with Hargrave, Ervin, or another OL. That’s a position I’d like to find ourselves in.
As I said yesterday, if we go OL in round one (or two), I would be happy not to go OL again until Fahn Cooper in the fourth. I just don’t see much difference between him and some of these guys who may be available at #26 in terms of a pure tackle. I think he’s a guy who could push for playing time as a rookie, too (and you can’t usually find those guys in the fourth rounds).
Great stuff, Rob. As usual, leave no stone unturned.
If I were the GM, I’d go into the draft targeting:
1. Whitehair
2. Fackrell
3. Ervin
3. Hargrave
4. Cooper
If Ervin wasn’t there (or Paul Perkins later), I would actually offer our 3rd rounder to the brand new GM in Detroit for Abdullah (still has three years left on his rookie deal). They were one of the few NFL OLs last year that was worse than ours.
That would be a solid draft for sure. I think Hargrave is going to go much higher than people expect though.
Joe Dahl at the combine ‘learned more plays the first day than I did my whole time in college’ on senior bowl
Take from that what you will.
Sweating profusely throughout
I doubt that makes his college coaches feel very good.
Spread offense…same problem most OL college players face these days. Key thing is, can they learn and how quickly and effectively?
I think this is mostly true for most college players at most positions. Limiting practice time and coaches getting fired for losing games means you have to focus on learning just enough to win with your scheme and not on teaching all facets of the game.
WSU offense is about having 8-10 plays they do really really well, rather than trying to surprise the defense. More of a “this is what we’re going to do – see if you can beat it” style.
A lot like our defense, actually.
Considering his college career was 99% pass protection, this isn’t a surprise.
If Cable can teach “anybody how to run block” then in theory he should be the perfect prospect since he already knows how to pass block.
While at Texas Tech, Leach put more offensive lineman in the NFL than any other position. He also put more offensive lineman than most schools during that period.
Hate when College players admit they don’t watch much NFL. Just sounds really wrong to me.
Yeah. I don’t mind if a guy doesn’t follow the game unless it’s a QB. To me, they need to be smart about everything. Remember Donovan McNabb not even knowing the OT rules? I was baffled when Ryan Tannenhill admitted that he didn’t even know who was in what divisions when he was coming out. I had actually hoped he’d last to our (Bruce Irvin) pick, but once I heard that… I no longer wanted him. Thanks goodness.
Good point. Look what happened to Kaepernick. You can’t ignore that stuff as a QB
Great piece, and good insight from Kip. If we look at the 2013 line, the thing that best describes that unit was beaten up. Constant injury issues forced lots of different lineups week to week. Okung and Unger were the most notable (and could be the main reason both were either traded and not pursued by Seattle in free agency). Carpenter showed up on the injury report a lot as well. The first Rams game was the worst pass protection I’ve ever seen in a game, where injuries forced Seattle to start Paul McQuistan at left tackle against Robert Quinn.
That line wasn’t that bad when healthy, and I really think we can get back to that level of play with a solid draft. That’s all we need. Russell is poised to become a consistent MVP candidate, give him a workable O line and with our weapons and defense it’s going to be a fun ride for the next decade.
Rd #1 Ifedi / Coleman -Two guys with elite potential who can play LG or RT starting day #1.
Rd#2 Jones /Henry /Hargreaves -Penetrating DTs who will add a dimension missing when Jordan Hill is hurt
Rd#3 Haeg/Mggovern/Martin/Westerman/Dahl- Any of these guys would be a great addition to the middle of our OL. At least one of them should be available in Rd #3
Rd#3 Comp Ervin or Prosise- Great additions to the backfield with CMike and Rawls that offer something different with elite pass catching skills out of the backfield.
Rd#4 Jatavius Brown- Love this undersized LB out of Akron. Great speed and instincts. All he does is make plays. Reminds me of an Earl or Russ who teams doubted because of size. This guy is going to be a great player somewhere in the NFL and I hope it is with us.
Rd#5 David Oneymata- I have been banging the drum for him for a while so I won’t elaborate.
Rd#6 Tyrone Holmes – I think he develop into a player similar to Frackrell and love his attitude. Could be a steal here as a situational pass rusher to add to the rotation in place of Marsh who is moving to LB.
Rd#7 Robby Anderson (WR/CB) The Hawks get another WR /CB convert to develop.
Rd#7 Justin Zimmer- Athletic freak we have covered plenty.
I love the comment “when Jordan Hill is hurt”, you know he is going to be hurt at some point!
When Jordan Hill was healthy he did not do any better. The only time he had an effect was during a short stretch of games late in 2014, against backup QB on shattered offenses.
I think Hill is a bust so far. Hope he proves me wrong.
I agree about Brown – he’s an outstanding athlete with A+ production on the field.
I want jatavius brown to be in a hawks uniform so badly. Rob any idea if the Hawks are interested?
Love watching Fackrell highlights. He plays all over the field and looks like a jack-of-all trades sort of guy with a potentially very high ceiling. I imagine he goes before #56, though.
Schneider’s recent comments about there not being a huge drop off in talent level in this years OL draft class make me wonder if we don’t take a defensive player with our first pick. Maybe the front office projects there to be a minimal drop off in talent between the OL likely to be available at picks #26 and #56? I definitely agree they won’t use their first 2 picks on defensive players, though. Of course, we never do know with our front office.
They could easily go defense at #26 — but as you say that would likely mean O-line at #56.
Lot’s of good options in this draft. Seahawks will get a cool class whatever happens.
That’s refreshing to read. If that’s true than the next few years could be really exciting.
Great article Rob. I was thinking it would be great to know defensive lineman that you think are available in rounds 3 – 5. So, the same of this article, but I was thinking of the other side of the ball. Are there any in rounds 3-5 that you think could make our rotation and contribute this year? For example, I think when we drafted Jay Howard it was after round 3. Thoughts? Thanks and have a great day!
At defensive tackle I’d be all over Willie Henry is he lasted into round three. I think Javon Hargrave goes R3-4. Joel Heath is one to keep an eye on too. Possibly Darius Latham and D.J. Reader. Hard not to root for Justin Zimmer too.
What about Ronald Blair? A couple of months ago he was getting mocked in the 6th or 7th rounds, but he’s been trending upward in mock drafts. Can you see the Hawks taking Blair in the 4th or 5th?
Maybe — but he didn’t test particularly well. Limited ceiling.
Great write up Rob! OL/DL or DL/OL seems to be the most likely scenario with the first two picks. I would like to see the following players selected with the combination of both defense and offense addressed:
R1: Bullard/ Ogbah/ Ifedi/ Whitehair/ McGovern( sorry if this offends, but I don’t think he will be available at 56)
R2: McGovern(if he’s there then make the call)/ Coleman/ Kaufusi/ Boehm/ J. Brown (Akron)
I haven’t seen any mention about running back. Let’s hope Rawls can duplicate his efforts last year, and his ankle is not going to slow him down. But Rawls and Cmike that is still pretty thin.
Schneider just had an interview. Notes are up at field gulls.
Mentions he likes the one-two punch they’ve got. ‘will have other guys in there as well’ Sounds like they either have one or two names in mind, or are planning to add some athletic camp bodies.
I think Schneider really likes CMike. No complaints from me, I really like CMike also!
I think anyone who really thinks that both PC and JS think Rawls and Michael are our 1 – 2 punch are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Rawls is relatively unproven and Michael was cut last season. My gut feel is we take an RB early (probably Henry at 26).
We just had a Henry type in camp last year…. Rod Smith didnt make the team. He was a monster.
If he didn’t have the history he has – if he was drafted by say, the Packers instead – what would you think of him?
A SPARQy player, didn’t see hardly any snaps his first two years, gets traded for a seventh round pick, barely sees the field with his new team, gets cut, moves from practice squad to practice squad, resigns with his old team and has a decent two games. Then becomes a unrestricted FA (which he was, as we didn’t tender him an offer), receives little to no interest, and signs with the Hawks for less than 1M.
To me that guy would be firmly in the “good competition but probably won’t make the team” camp. The “I wonder if he is still practice squad eligible” camp. Guaranteeing him significant snaps (which is what we are doing – he is second string behind a player recovering from a significant injury) is nuts.
I mean, he got half with Bradley Sowell got – with 1/8 the guarantee. Real easy cut.
Yeah with how much our offense depends on the run game I think we will pick a day two RB – keep an eye on Kenneth Dixon in round two. Has fumble problems but I think we would be interested anyway.
Great article, per usual, Rob. Always great to see Kip contribute.
I really don’t comment anymore, mainly due to time, and everyone always beats me to what I’d say anyway. But I’m always checking out the site. Thanks again, Rob.
It’d be weird to draft Kyler Fackrell. He wears the same number (9) that Bobby Wagner wore at Utah State.
Go Hawks.
The write-ups of Rob’s that got me most excited were Keanu Neil and Derrick Henry. They seem like play-makers. Maybe they’ll be around Round1/2 and be irresistible!
Seems like there is 2 parts to the question here.
First, do they feel comfortable enough with there current tackles that they could go Dline first.
Second, what order can you get the best value with your first 2 picks.
It seems like if your not comfortable with your current tackles you almost have to go tackle at 26.
Thoughts?
If they feel comfortable with Gilliam at left tackle, I don’t think they have to draft a tackle at #26 at all. I’ve said it a few times now, but when I watch Fahn Cooper and some of the other guys who might be there at #26, I don’t see much difference. Also, Britt did start at RT as a rookie and the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl. They also signed Kelly, who could play RT, too. None of us like Britt all that much and he doesn’t seem to have a future at guard, but it’s possible they could live with him at RT and his deficiencies in pass pro. He can’t/won’t be worse there than he was two years ago when he started all season. Plus, he’s a really good run blocking RT. Now, I don’t want Britt to start, I’m just stating something that perhaps is “out there.”
When I look at the “safest” players in the draft, I think Whitehair is one of them. I’d prefer him at #26 right now (if he’s available). I really don’t see them “having” to do anything in the draft aside from the fact that they need to take an OL in the second round if they haven’t already done so at #26.
This really feels like it’s coming down to Ifedi or Bullard at 26. Assuming both are available, which way do they go?
For the entirety of the offseason I’ve been of the opinion that they’ll go OT first. After Ifedi’s impressive Combine, when it came out that they’re interested in him, I pretty much figured he would be their R1 pick.
I am now starting to think they will actually go Bullard first.
Why? Partly what you say – they’re comfortable with the tackles currently on roster. We know they’re comfortable with GG, and we can infer they’re comfortable with Webb. They also have Sowell, Britt (heaven help us) and Poole in the competition, and they’ll add another 1 (or 2) in the draft/UDFA. I’m starting to think they’ll add a developmental OT in a later round rather than go big by going early. Someone like West GA OT Dominique Robertson 6’5″ 324lbs with 36″ arms. He doesn’t test like Ifedi (which is why he’s not a R1 prospect) but he looks the part: https://vine.co/v/iwvMjLZYUKx
SEA attended his pro day.
In addition, we’ve discussed that improving the interior OL may be more important, and there are more interior OL options likely to be available to SEA in R2 and later. McGovern/Martin/Westerman in R2, Glasgow/Dahl in R3-R4, and some others we haven’t even mentioned yet.
Bullard strikes me as their “Frank Clark 2.0” project. A highly athletic, high upside DL prospect with versatility, grit, drive and attitude. They tried Clark inside/out and decided they like him more out. Now they’ll take Bullard and see if they can’t get him to work more inside. Might take him a season before he could be an every-down 3T, and not just in NASCAR. But I think they see him in that role eventually.
I think I agree with you and it will be a defensive lineman first. With an offensive lineman next. Drafti g a later round OT would also be good. I just have a feeling they feel good about the tackles they have. Now that being said, would you guys rather have Webb at LG and Britt at RT or the other way around. I would rather have Britt a t RT myself.
I think you summed my feelings up perfect Eric. Thought it was going to be OT the whole way, then it would come down to Ifedi and Bullard, now I think it will be Bullard, my thoughts exactly.
I’m thinking something like this for the first 5 picks:
26 Bullard
56 OL – McGovern/Westerman/Kelly/Martin/Coleman?
90 Ervin
97 OL – Dahl/Glasgow/Haeg/Le’Raven?
124 Lawler/DJ Reader
Meant to add Hargrave to the possibilities at 124.
Also, I don’t think they trade down from 26 if they want either Ifedi or Bullard. Too much risk in not getting your guy – even if they’re both available when you trade.
I do think it’s possible they trade up in R3 if they think someone else might beat them to Ervin.
You and I are on the same page, I love those posibilities. It would be nice to throw a guy like Hargrave in there for future run stuffing.
I’m right there with you guys.
Now this is a Seahawks pick a guy who comps well to other first rounders but is expected to last until later rounds
Been rewatching Kaufusi against Cinci. Really gets a lot of his production from stunts and creative angles. Seems to struggle setting an edge against the run. Has problems disengaging occasionally. Really good at popping the ball out. Even if it is against Cincinatti’s freshman QB that literally had a butt fumble in the game.
6.5 of his 11 sacks came in two games. Against Zack Greenlee who threw for all of 866 yards last year for Fresno state and the freshman from Cinci, Hayden Moore who has since been usurped of his position in favor of a transfer.
He had zero sacks against Utah, Missouri, Michigan, UCLA, Boise State. Of which they only beat BS U.
That’s good research. Thanks.
His hand speed is incredible. Kind of a physical freak.
Might’ve got his sacks in bunches, but that’s not a bad thing.
Here is a guy that I have not heard mentioned, but his numbers sound like a fit late in the draft (6th or 7th round). I estimate his SPARQ is above average for the NFL, but he has no firm measurables, such as length of arms or size of hands.
Defensive back (CB/FS) Kalan Reed out of Southern Miss — His Proday – 5-11 1/8, 192 — ran the 40 in 4.47 and 4.49 seconds. He had a 41 1/2-inch vertical and 10-foot-2 broad jump. He did the short shuttle in 4.19 seconds and the three-cone in 7.05 seconds. He put the bar up 11 times on the bench press. ~ Gil Brandt NFL . com
Reed tallied 47 tackles and added four interceptions – two for touchdowns – to go along with a season school-record 19 pass break ups. – Southern Miss Football (2015)
Cover corner with fluidity and speed to burn; covered Amari Cooper, despite the size difference in college several years back. Nose for the ball, insane hops, a somewhat under the radar prospect…. who most likely fits as a nickle CB out of the box. Just another guy to put on the late round watchlist for Seattle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn0nYLD9Noo
That second gear though.
Watched his tape against Nebraska. Very rangy has good pop for a guy his size. I think he projects better as a FS in our scheme with that ability to roll down in man or flat or spy as a nickle.
Kinda super duper soft and tiny, though. Seems like his frame could add a few pounds without losing speed. Plays way off because of his extreme range. Probably why he had so many deflections.
http://draftbreakdown.com/kalan-reed-and-the-lost-socks/
Remember seeing his name on a draft breakdown article I didn’t read. Seems like a decent project to back up Earl.
Walter Football Mock today. I pay a lot more attention to these now that Tony Pauline is providing them info.
I thought there were some interesting picks.
Rd #1 Chris Jones
Rd #2 Jaylon Smith
Rd #3 Cody Whitehair
Rd # 3 Rees Odembhio
Rd #4 Max Tuerk
Rd #5 Marcus Robinson
If we got Jaylon, Jones & Whitehair I would be beyond thrilled.
Me too that would be an incredible haul of talent.
If Whitehair lasts until round three, I’ll do the post-mock podcast live on video wearing a 49ers cap.
Do you have a 49ers cap?
No… I would have to acquire one, adding to the pain…
If you had to acquire one, at least when you were finished paying off the bet, you could burn it.
Gross!
But it would make me happy to see that guy available that late!
Rob, what about more possible moves in FA? If they designate Lynch a post June 1 cut, that would free up money to maybe go after a Jason Jones and alleviate some need on the DL.
They’ve stated they’d rather not take that from him if they can help it.
I’ve heard it mentioned that they can’t take it from him, it was written into his contract.
He’s talking about something else. Lynch is officially still with the team and if they wait till June 1st to cut/retire him it frees up an extra 2.5m for this year.
Ohh thanks g
Actually I thought if they cut him they save $6.5m off his $11m cap hit. They would still incur the $5m prorated signing hit. But that $6.5m could buy a Jason Jones and still have a bit leftover.
Rob, did you hear that our comp pick for Okung is likely going to be cancelled out by the Webb signing? What a bummer.. Hopefully he can out perform it and stay healthy enough to net us a 6th.
If we’ve learned one thing in the PCJS era, it’s that they will not likely stand pat on their current picks. They will move around, picking up additional picks when they can and consolidating to get impact players where it makes sense. I would be somewhat shocked if they took all 3 of their day 1 and 2 picks with no movement.
You say OL/DL, and include Fackrell. I’m assuming you mean he would play the edge in Seattle? I was under the impression he would essentially replace Irvin the linebacker. What’s everybody’s thoughts on this? Bobby, I know you love Fackrell.
I do. I think he’d be a serious edge rushing presence in pass rushing situations. I even think he could play the Clem/Leo role of ’13, but it looks like that’s turning into Frank Clark territory. In ’13 when Clem played Leo, then Avril only played a little over 50% of snaps, as Big Red played in the base defense. Regardless, Fackrell would be outside insurance in case of a Super Bowl/Avril type of injury again and/or keeping guys fresh where one injury to a pass rusher couldn’t destroy a team and it’s long-term quest in a season. A scenario like this would enable Bennett to rush more from the interior, as opposed to lining up outside as much as he has been, too.
I don’t think Fackrell would be a special SAM on 1st and 2nd down, but I do think he’d be well worth the investment as a situation rusher/blitzer on the money downs. Rob has called him a “splash” play guy consistently and that’s what he is… a guy who could help us make a big time difference on the all-important third downs.
Clarification: I see Fackrell being able to be a Leo with a few more pounds. That’s where I’d like him best, although I don’t think that’s what the Seahawks would do with him.
If the Seahawks draft him, I see him playing SAM on 1st and 2nd down and then perhaps situationally rushing the passer like Irvin did before him. Will create more competition for Clark and all the pass rushers and we know they like that (competition).
I hope we can leave the draft with at least one of Fackrell, Hargrave, or Bullard. They will all help the pass rush in different ways, but think each can make a bit of an impact even as rookies getting after the QB.
I like the prospect and the potential. About the LB position, he’d certainly be in the competition with others to fill the role. I’m really surprised they haven’t resigned Clem. Maybe if they don’t quite draft who they want, he’s a fall back option. Thx Bobby
Clemons likely wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay. He wont sign with them early, and Seattle may be unwilling to guarantee much of a signing bonus, as they are obviously looking to upgrade the pass rush in the Draft. If they get a guy or guys they really like in the Draft, Clemons becomes expendable. So from their stance, it makes no sense to pay him much bonus money and sign him now–plus if he’s on the roster Game One, as a Vet he gets his yearly salary guaranteed and they have to pay even if he’s cut during the season.
I expect Clemons to try to get bonus money elsewhere, and Seattle to wait to sign him until after Week One, if he’s still around. He’s a fading stop-gap anyhow.
He’s a chess piece. Could play edge, linebacker. Move him around a ton.
The reason I brought up running backs on a previous post is I have seen a couple of mock drafts the past couple of weeks with Derrick Henry of alabama to the Hawks at 26.
I would be on board with Henry at 26 – at least he makes plays and contributes to the team goal of battering the opponent into submission. I would prefer a defensive playmaker, but if none that the Hawks like are left, Henry isn’t a bad fall back option. I think another defensive playmaker (or Henry) are far more important than a “solid” OL prospect any day of the week, we need to reestablish the attitude and punishment opponents for showing up.
To be the bully, you need to overwhelm an opponent – not react to it. Despite finishing #1 in scoring defense again in 2015, the defense took a clear step back. There’s a huge difference between “arguably the best defense in the NFL” and “arguably the best defense of ALL TIME”. The defense needs to get younger, faster, and more dominant to get back to what it once was.
Great write up! Well described scenario where they can get caught getting into trouble getting too cute with the first couple picks.
DL/OT, or OT/DL, it really makes no difference to me. In PC/JS, I trust. As long as they get impact linemen are both of the first picks, I’m happy with it, much preferably on both sides of the ball, but honestly, I think DL is the area where they can probably afford to wait it to 90, with this draft being so deep. If they miss out of Rankins, Bullard, Tapper, Henry, Kaufusi, etc, adding Javon Hargave or Matt Judon at 90 doesn’t sound terrible at all, IMO.
What do you guys think about taking Jaylon Smith in the 2nd round? It could be like trading our 2nd round pick for a 2017 top 5 pick.
Players like that don’t come around too often, that said he might not be a player like that anymore
I would feel more comfortable in the third. That would need some serious medical checks.
Or it could end up like that 1st round pick we traded for Harvin, nothing but a pile of dust. With the seriousness of his injury, it’s too big a risk for me in the 2nd. Maybe in the 3rd.
I’m all for drafting Jaylon Smith. Rumor is his knee is a ‘when not if’ situation. If that truly is the case I could see JS drafting him at #26. Have to think Smith would be the highest player on our board if he’s available. We keep searching for a defensive difference maker on defense. Smith is that, makes plays all over the field, can do it all. He’s only 20 and played at 245 lbs, another 10 lbs and he could be a dynamic edge rusher. I’m a big fan of his, if you can’t tell. 😉 So yeah taking him at #56 would be great, and I’d be cool with taking him at #26.
I do not think anyone knows how his knee will be in the future. There are players that come back and players that never do. Each is a specific case. Look at Marcus Lattimore. He never was able to overcome his knee injury, which was similar to Smith’s I believe. Lattimore never played a snap.
We will only know when he actually begins to play if he can come back. And, if he is able to suit up again, has the injury robbed him of what made him great?
If his knee checks out he’ll be gone before then, if not I wouldn’t take him until the 5th.
Very similar injury happened to Marcus Lattimore, and I believe he was drafted in the 5th round.
If it’s even a 50/50 shot I reckon you have to take it. A team as good as the current Seahawks just don’t get shots at a guy like that. Probably my favourite player in the entire draft – ridiculous celebration aside. He’s got size, range, speed, bend, pass-rush skills, and amazingly enough for a college player actually looks like he knows how to tackle. He’s everything you could possibly want in a modern day linebacker, and he’s only 20.
I agree if it anything better than 50/50 I make that pick for sure as he is a sure fire top 5 talent.
Recent Drafttek Mock Draft
Rd1 Sheldon Rankins
Rd2 Jason Springs
Rd3 Josh Garnett
Rd3 Deion Jones
Wow if you got those 4 guys you would have to be pumped. I can’t see it but if so I would take it all day long.
I agree, it’s wishul thinking but that’s 4 good players for sure.
What do ya’ll like about Garnett? I know he’s from Auburn WA but he lacks any of the traits the hawks have seemed to like in their ol
Pure LG. Seattle talked with him at the combine. They may desire more versatile players, but I like him.
They like huge, slow-footed guys at RT who then fail and have to be moved to LG lol!
Seriously though, they like huge road-grader types at LG, and Garnett seems like a decent fit there. He’s not going to play other positions, but if they think he could be a solid LG, then I think he will be on their board.
What’s your guys thoughts on Kevin Dodd to the Hawks at 26. Dudes a beast that could be an inside out guy weighing in at 277. Only one great year but he kind of got stuck playing behind some great players.
I think he might be a possibility, for sure. For me, I like Bullard more.
Here’s my latest mock draft (for the first three rounds). Of course, this all depends on a multitude of scenarios, but mock drafts aren’t super precise.
R1-Darron Lee LB/Ohio State
Pete Carroll is a defensive coach. That performance against Carolina and the various 4th quarter meltdowns has to be bothering him. Defensive line talent pushes Lee, a top 15 talent, down the board. Lee possesses speed, passion for the game, and elite athleticism. Perfect replacement for Bruce Irvin.
R2-Noah Spence DE/Eastern Kentucky
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not an Ohio State fan. Far from it. But with Spence falling due to questions about character (some said he didn’t interview well at all), JS takes a chance on an edge rusher before the next run on the position starts. Rob, I know you’re questioning his straight line speed, but there were reports that said he was fighting through a pulled hamstring at the combine. Another source (I don’t remember which one) said his 10 yard split at his pro day was 1.58 seconds.
R3-Isaac Seumalo OL/Oregon State
Finally a pick for the OL! Seumalo was a former 5 star recruit from the Corvallis area, which led him to Oregon State and declining offers from big time programs . Played virtually every position on the offensive line out of necessity for the team. Possesses excellent short burst quicks and nastiness Cable loves at an excellent value.
R3*- Jonathan Williams RB/Arkansas
A personal favorite of mine. Shows excellent speed, pass catching ability, and elusiveness. Bret Bielema raves about his work ethic and perseverance, while he was not effusive toward Alex Collins (said he was late to meetings and lacking intensity). Fought multiple moves across the country while in poverty and had season-ending injury to his foot. This pushes him down the board and also means less tread on the tires. Could this be similar to the Vance Mcdonald-Luke Willson situation, which had Willson fall to the 5th round due to a season-ending injury?
I assume DT won’t be addressed until later since it’s not a high position of value. Let me know what ya’ll think!
I think Seattle might like Seumalo, and thats a good sleeper pick.
Spence is slow, I dont see Seattle being in love with him and there are guys they would probably like better in that area. I also think DT is more important to them than you think, especially finding one with pass rush ability. But with this draft high on run stuffers and light on Big Boys with pass rush, if they dont take one high I agree, they wont take one until late.
Agreed about defensive tackle. The Seahawks play the board better than anybody and if the run on a particular position group is going to start, they make their pick based on those trends (Frank Clark was the last of the edge/DL talent before a big talent dropoff, Britt was before a run on OTs would start again, etc.)
Spence may be slow in the 40, but he doesn’t have to run in the 4.5s. Bruce Irvin was a truly unique player that had the coveted speed. The best way to look at a Leo would be to look at Avril and Clemons’ numbers. I believe they ran in the 4.6s (please correct me if I’m wrong), but with elite 10 yard splits in the 1.5 range. It’s hard to predict the 10 yard splits since teams use their own times and the NFL network times are usually unreliable. A recorded split of 1.63 seconds could very well be in the 1.5s on a hand timer; we’re talking hundredths of seconds here. And that is the reason why I still see Spence on the board.
Spence actually compares pretty well to Whitney Mercilus, a guy some of us liked for Seattle awhile back. He took a couple years to get going, but just got a nice extension with the Chargers and had turned into a pretty fine pass rusher.
The knock on Mercilus was his short arms. Spence is more than a tenth of a second slower in the 40, has slightly shorter arms (ugh!), but otherwise is very close to Mercilus in agility tests. Spence is also shorter and lighter by about 2 inches and 10 lbs. Their bench was close–25/27 reps, and Spence actually had a better broad jump and 20 yard split, though a slower 3-cone.
He’s worked hard to turn himself around after getting busted for drugs multiple times, plus being arrested for Drunk and Disorderly. If he seems sincere and motivated, he might be a pretty good DE/OLB in the NFL.
Mercilus with Texans, not Chargers. Duh.
Just decided to do a mock
In this we trade down with the cowboys they take Henry and we take their 2nd and 4th which is so high it might as well be a 3rd.
2. Shon Coleman t
2. Connor McGovern g
3. Tyler Ervin rb
3. Jaron Hargrave dt
4. Willie Henry dt
4. Devon Caujste or Mitch Matthews. Wr
5. Kalan Reed nb
6. Tyrone Holmes leo
7. Keenan Reynolds qb
7. Tanner McEvoy safety olb
Whats everybody thought on if joshua perry at 56 .could he play sam
I like Joshua Perry a lot. Not sure how much of a priority SAM is for them over OL or DT/DE types, but if they took him at 56, I wouldn’t be upset.
I like the mock some real nice picks!
Sounds like theres some buzz on Tyler Ervin. Being checked out by the Patriots and the Niners.
I think Seattle has far more need for a TE like Vannett who can block and catch than they do a WR. I like Tyrone Holmes as well. He’d be a good project who would contribute on ST right away, even at worst case scenario.
I LIKE IT!!!!
Excited about this draft. The way things are shaking out I think we’re going to get a good haul no matter what. I think, at the moment, I’d like to see something like this.
1. Neal
2. Coleman – trade up to get him using our fourth. Could that be done?
3. McGovern
3. Ervin
Neal, Coleman and Ervin are 3 on my list of favourite players in the draft so I would be all for this one if they could pull it off. Not sure Coleman will be there in Rd #2 but maybe and I think Mcgovern will go before the end of Rd #3 but if not it would be a nice draft.
Denver and NE’s last 5 first rounders.
Shane Ray
Bradley Roby
Sylvester Williams
Derek Wolfe(2nd round, traded out of 1st)
Von Miller
Malcolm Brown
Dominique Easely
Jamie Collins(not 1st rounder, but their 1st pick)
Chandler Jones + Donta Hightower(both 2012)
Nate Solder
1 offensive player from that list.
I see what your saying.
Seattle’s last 5 drafts-
Carpenter
Irvin
Harvin
P-Rich
Graham
One defensive player.
I think a big reason for that is Denver and NE had strong offenses and thought they needed to upgrade the defense to win and SB. The Hawks had an elite Defense and thought they needed to upgrade the offense to stay on top.
Nailed it.
While I get the point and can read between the lines, defense wins championships, I’m not sure there’s any correlation between the two. Or three.
Good point. I also think it might speak to the abilities of each group, or their belief in their abilities. I think Pete, in particular, has the ability — or believes he has the ability — to find good defensive players in later rounds. Diamonds in the rough.
One of the reasons I don’t sweat Irvin leaving so much. I think Pete can figure that out.
IMO, they’ve had little hedges in place regarding Bruce for awhile.
There’s a bunch of athletic LBs in the mold of their current SAMs or Malcom Smitty types this year, that I think LB won’t be addressed until round 5, if not round 7 or UDFA.
After all, other than B-Wagz, they don’t seem to target OLB’s until day 3.
Again, Clark was their first pick last year. He plays defense, just like J Collins for NE.
It’s easier for NE to make those decisions though with Brady. He doesn’t really need a big name supporting cast.
Ditto I guess with Denver once they acquired Manning.
Nice take Rob.
After watching the way RW played in the 2nd half last year, we can add him to that list.
RW going to “defense university” under Carroll is the Seahawks answer to OL issues.
Seattle was after Easley, and was CRUSHED when NE took him right in front of our nose. They fully intended to go Defense with that pick,
And when you have found players like Sherman, Wright, M Smith, and your D-linemen late in the draft or in FA, and you’ve put first round picks into E Thomas and Irvin, you dont need to keep spending First Round picks on the D.
Seattle also used their first pick last year on Frank Clark, which you dont mention. If youre going to count Jamie Collins for the Pats, logic says you have to include Frank Clark for Seattle.
Seattle was simply trying to patch their holes, and fix their weaknesses, they just started with Defense, built it up, and then moved on to fixing the Offense–or trying to. Denver and NE built up their offense and then went Defense. Everyone is just trying to get better all around, and Denver most definitely copy catted Seattle after getting blown out in the SB. And it worked.
I’m glad that Kip Earlywine managed to make the point i failed to make over the past 2 months. The road to the next Lombardi does not go exclusivly throu upgrading the OL.
I am sure it will not stop mocks that have 3 OL picks within the first 5 picks but it would give the D picks some love too.
It’s hard to go against the current here. When the first pick (or picks) are constantly OL (Coleman, Martin, Ifedi…) it sets a tone about what’s right and what’s wrong that sweeps us all in that direction. It becomes a “rule” and only the names change.
I believe that for the FO it is nothing but…
The first pick will be about the player, not about the role. When JS spoke about a double whammy he meant just that. You do not pick a position, you pick a player.
Since the Seahawks always surprise us with the player, do not expect them to stick to the position you favor.
In spite of some evaluations here like “there is a drop at OL talent after the 2nd round”, JS said that he does not see a drop at OL talent in this draft class all they way to the end. He said this is a very good year for OL. For me it is a statement that they do not feel attached to certain picks on certain rounds. They will probably make 2-3 OL picks but they are as likely to be later than early.
My personal belief is that there will be just one OL pick before day 3 but it will have to do with the individual available players and thier ranking for the team.
“I’m glad that Kip Earlywine managed to make the point i failed to make over the past 2 months. The road to the next Lombardi does not go exclusivly throu upgrading the OL.”
Nobody has argued this though. This is really the issue I’ve had with your argument Eran. It’s a bit of a strawman.
People aren’t saying ‘build an O-line to win the Super Bowl’. They’re saying ‘the O-line needs to be improved because it isn’t very good’.
I can point to a lot of “we can’t win with this OL” here but that is not the issue. Lately, the view here became more balanced because of your work Rob and i value it greatly.
I do not argue that our OL is good or even solid. I argue that it is what it is by plan. I argue that it is not an accident that our OL costs 8.7M a year on a team with little cap space left. I argue that this is the position group they decided to cut on and trust TC to manage with his garbage men.
I’m sure they will pick guys to add to the OL ranks by i do not believe they will spend 3 out of our top 5 picks on the OL.
You post a “formal mock” once a week for months, i follow them closely. They share 2 common traits so far – We pick OL at 26 and we pick 3 O-Liners within our top 5 picks. That l;eaves little room for top D talent.
I think that our D is very very good but not good enough to dominate like they did in 2013. I think that if we upgrade our D, we will win the SB with a poor OL (2013, 2014 supports that). I think that upgrading a very good defense requires top talent while upgrading a poor OL can be done with later picks (Gilliam, Lewis, Glow…)
That is my argument, strawman as it is….
I still think it’s a bit of a strawman Eran. Nobody has really argued that the way to win is with an elite OL and that’s why they need to go heavy there. They need to have at least an average line though — the numbers highlight that in this piece. And with the existing personnel it will be hard to field an average line. They need talent and quality there, plus competition.
I’ve consistently mocked OL-DEF-OL-RB or a combination of that. I don’t think I’ve done a mock with three OL’s in the first five picks. I fully expect two early picks to go on the OL.
It will be very difficult for Seattle or any team to dominate like SEA’s 2013 unit. That was a once in a lifetime year with unreal depth. Look how many of those guys went on to get paid in FA. The key players from their 2014 run are still there. Last year they were still the #1 scoring defense in the league. I don’t see what evidence there is to suggest they won’t be a very good unit again. Expecting complete dominance seems a bit rich though — or that two rookies will help them reach that 2013 level again.
Rob,
R1 — Nick Martin (C, Notre Dame)
An instant starter who provides consistency, power and technique.
R2 — Deion Jones (LB, LSU)
Elite speed and range at the WILL or SAM.
R3 — Paul Perkins (RB, UCLA)
An ideal compliment to Thomas Rawls.
R3 — Joe Dahl (G, Washington State)
Looked at home at right guard next to Nick Martin in Mobile.
R4 — Sebastien Tretola (G, Arkansas)
Has 3 of the top 4…
sorry, top 5….typo
OK — so one mock many weeks ago.
And how many since with only two OL in the top five picks?
C’mon man. This is a classic strawman.
As Rob said, no one here is saying we have to replicate the 2005 Seattle line, and get the Worlds Greatest LT Of All Time, a HOF caliber LG with a nasty streak, a Pro Bowl C, and two savvy vets at RG and RT. There is an entire world of talent level between Seattle’s current mess of an O-line (Pre Draft and Pre-final Cuts) and that Gold Standard Line. Winning a SB requires upgrading the line for sure, but not necessarily to All Time Great status.
The offensive line the last two years has proven to be the achilles heal of the team. Sure, by the Playoffs two years ago our line stepped up, and they werent the main reason we lost the SB (that would be Defensive Injuries to key players). However, they damn sure were the reason we nearly didnt get to the playoffs and struggled the early part of 2014. And they were most definitely a major reason why this team didnt make the SB last season, though not the only reason.
You cant field an O-line that is terribly inconsistent in the run game, and horrid in pass pro, and thats what we have as of now. Im not buying Gilliam will be “fine” or even “Ok” from the get-go, nor am I expecting Britt to do anything other than suck and lose his job at LG to whoever we draft. I hope Lewis starts, unless we draft a C high, and I have faith in Glowinsky. Im hopeful a Sober Webb will do alright at RT, but overall this line looks like a contender for bottom-5 in the NFL. And that wont win you a SB. You need a line that is slightly above average, on the average, to win. If you have a line that sucks in either pass pro or run, they better be REALLY good at the other.
We need to get close to average overall, with excellent run blocking and nearly average pass pro if we expect to compete for championships.
Im all for Seattle taking BPA in the first. However, they DO have a track record of reaching for positions of need, for instance taking Carpenter over M. Wilkerson even though he was rated lower on their (and everyone else’s) board. There is a chance they are BSing us, and arent stoked about their current line, and will reach for the best T and G combo they can find high in the draft. I dont like that scenario, but it is possible.
I have so much to say about your comment but i will limit it to the following:
“The offensive line the last two years has proven to be the achilles heal of the team. Sure, by the Playoffs two years ago our line stepped up, and they werent the main reason we lost the SB (that would be Defensive Injuries to key players)”
The 2013 OL was even worse according to most 12ths. It had Breno, Carp and a young Sweezy. Bowie, Bailey and McQ started over 15 games combined. We hated it and won the SB anyway behind a GOAT defense.
The 2014 OL did not prevent us from reaching the SB and leading by 10 points in the 3rd. Other than that horrible last play, we lost that game due to injuries on defense as you stated.
After all of that you still believe that fixing the OL should be the top priority in the draft? why?
“The 2013 OL was even worse according to most 12ths. It had Breno, Carp and a young Sweezy. Bowie, Bailey and McQ started over 15 games combined. We hated it and won the SB anyway behind a GOAT defense.”
I don’t know anyone who thinks that 2013 line was worse than the 2015 unit — or anyone who thinks it’s worse than the current O-liners on the roster. Who has made that point??
worse then the 2014 unit…
You’ve completely lost me here Eran.
Don’t get your point at all.
Finish the timeline Eran. In 2015, SEA stumbled out of the gate, due mainly to poor OL. Proof? Lewis replaced Nowak in week 6; after starting 2-4, they went on to finish the season 8-3. Cary Williams? He got benched in week 11 vs SF.
But as much as Lewis was an improvement over Nowak, he still isn’t the answer at C. Same with Britt at LG – he’s not the answer there. Then there’s the offseason, when SEA lost their starting LT and RG in FA.
To recap, SEA’s OL was their biggest impediment to success in 2015, and it’s only gotten worse in FA. Yet their defense was still #1 in scoring and #1 against the run (again) – and they retained 2 of their best FAs in Lane and Rubin.
That’s why OL should be the top priority in the draft. But that doesn’t mean OL must be the first pick to be the top priority.
I don’t know that it’s gotten worse. No one does.
I can easily agree with the general consensus that Gilliam or Sowell is a downgrade from a healthy Okung at LT.
A healthy, more experienced Britt is definitely not a downgrade from 2015 Britt at LG (or RT).
Lewis is Lewis – I don’t think he’ll be appreciably better, but certainly not worse at C.
Glowinski was a better pass blocker in high school than Sweezy ever was in Seattle, not sure if there will be a drop-off in run blocking or not – but the late hit flags certainly won’t be missed at RG.
Webb/Sowell is no worse than Gilliam at RT, either likely offers an upgrade over the 2015 version of Gilliam: first time starter/TE convert.
There will be competition, there will be draft picks, but I don’t see the dire need to make it the #1 priority.
The defense needs a young talent influx, so if you have a shot at a stud like William Jackson, Keanu Neal, or Sheldon Rankins – legit top-15 talent in other drafts, I think you take your shot and pick up competition OL in Rd 2 or Rd 3.
Good points.
Yes, if Rankin is there at 26, you take him. He’s likely gone by pick 15.
Im not convinced Webb will be better than Gilliam was at RT, but one can hope. Again, I feel Gilliam will flat struggle at LT, and perhaps all year. He’s definitely not going to be an upgrade over Okung–at least, not immediately. Britt may have already hit his ceiling.
I would have no problem if Seattle takes a big fast corner or other supreme athlete–as long as they perform. But they do need 1-2 solid O-line additions to add to the mix.
Let me add something here:
In the first half of 2015, RW was sacked 10% of his drop-backs, worse in the NFL. In the 2nd half he was sacked 4.7% on his drop-backs, 7th in the NFL.
This line was improving and the offense learned to function behind them. If we set the line early and get them the training they need as a unit they can provide enough for RW (after Carroll’s summer school) to operate a functioning and efficient offense. They ended last year 4th in the NFL behind that line.
I am not afraid to trust that line. If it gets a another top talent from the top of the draft, all the better.
That line has already lost two key starters from 2015.
With Gilliam likely moving to LT, I prefer to look at all three positions together, I think breaking down the individual positions is important.
They lost an oft-injured LT that when healthy was a fringe Pro-Bowler and replaced him with a second year OT that started at RT for one year and improved steadily. It’s a clear downgrade from a healthy Okung, but on the flipside at least it’s a reliable, healthy replacement with extreme athleticism.
At RG they lost a converted DL that brought the nasty on every play and by all accounts was a zone/cut-blocking machine. He was also an abject failure as a pass blocker and good for the occasional poorly timed penalty. He was replaced by a career OL that is already an improvement in the passing game and has received positive reviews by the coaching staff – he remains an unknown, but I think his chances of success are at least equal to any draft pick we could get in 2016.
The RT is moving to LT, so we lose a ton of athleticism at RT, but gain a lot of strength and experience there if Webb is the guy. He’s going to help open holes in the running game and occasionally get beat badly by athletic DEs – overall, probably a slight upgrade over 2015, first-year Gilliam.
They lost two and acquired two. They also saved a bunch of money and have 4 picks in the first three rounds. If one OL starter is acquired over those 4 picks I think we’re all set because that means we’ve improved over 2015 at LG, RT, or C.
As I said, Seattle’s O-line wasnt good until about the playoffs in 2014, and easily could have cost us bigtime. That it didnt was a testament to Lynch, Wilson, and the Defense–to say nothing of the coaching.
Last year they were simply awful, and they were so bad it cost us any chance of a SB run.
The 2013 line was not worse than last years. Though individual players werent great, they gelled somewhat as a whole, and got better through the year. At least they were pretty good at run blocking. The next year they werent as good, and last year was simply awful. And as much as the line improved after Lewis got back in the lineup, they still got flat destroyed vs Minny and Carolina in the playoffs.
I never said fixing the line should be the top priority in the Draft. But as a whole, the O-line is the position group that needs fixing the most. They HAVE to get it right, and get pieces who are good enough along the entire line. We cannot have a repeat of last season.
However, Ive said quite a few times Im not comfortable with taking any of the O-line prospects who are likely to be there at 26 this year. I would prefer a great athlete at whatever position–BPA. Whether that ends up being D-line or Corner or even WR (I cant see them going this route, unless Treadwell or Doctson are there) I dont care, and those positions may offer better value, depending on how the Draft shakes out. Ive also stated I would support a trade down into the top third of the second round, if they can get a third or a fourth and fifth to do so. Then take an O-linemen or two with their first 3-4 picks….
As bad as I think our line is as it stands today, I do believe Glowinsky will be an upgrade over Sweezy immediately. He is a true NFL guard, and unlike Sweezy, has the instincts already. He just “gets it”.
However, Britt stinks at whatever position they plug him in at, Webb has not been even mediocre up to this point, and Sowell has shown nothing to my eye. Gilliam may have the talent, but he is lacking in skill and still needs to add strength and weight. He will struggle at LT, perhaps all year.
Sokoli should probably be learning G not C, as its gonna take him years to get acclimated to the complexity of not only playing line in the NFL, but making all the right calls and being able to guess what the D is going to do.
All this points to Seattle needing at least two guys who can come in and at least compete as rookies, and who will likely earn starting jobs by their second year. Doesnt mean they have to find those guys at 26 or with their first two picks, but as Rob and others argue, not taking a linemen at 26 makes it that much more of a crapshoot to find a legit starter.
I disagree entirely with your assessment of Gilliam I think he has a chance to be an upgrade in consistency over okung. NY the end of the year he looked like a legit right tackle and was great in pass pro and a healthy mediocre Gilliam is significantly better than a hurt Russell okung. Beyond that you’re pretty dead on the Hawks need a new left guard and right tackle JaMarcus Webbs tape kind of makes me cringe
You misunderstand. I dont think Gilliam will be an instant upgrade–I think he will struggle for at least half a season, perhaps more, at LT. But long-term? He’s got the athleticism and smarts and grit to be an upgrade over Okung–especially with Okungs injury history.
Webb to me is a great pickup. He’s strong and had his moments. He’s been Sober for awhile, and his drinking had to have stunted his growth and performance. I am hopeful Cable can train him up–just not ready to count on him stepping in Day One and playing at even an average level.
He didn’t say he does not see a drop in talent all the way to the end. He said there are different shelves of players all the way through the draft. Different shelves of players is very different from no drop in talent all the way to the end. You say that they don’t feel attached by certain picks in certain rounds, but maybe that’s because you misheard what he actually said, about different shelves of players.
Ack. Replying to EranUngar.
Maybe you are right. I know i express the minority opinion here on this topic.
“In Schneider’s mind, demand clearly outweighs supply, which makes for a bad marketplace if you’re a buyer. Do you pay up for mediocre talent? Or do you try to develop your own for cheap? The Seahawks have gone with the latter.”
This IMO captures the FO strategy regarding the OL both in FA and iin the draft.
I disagree Eran. History demonstrates they spend significant draft capital on the OL.
The strategy you speak of – developing your own talent for cheap – is how they’ve built their secondary.
Really Eric?
Please list the players on the current Seahawks OL roster picked before thew 3rd day of the draft?
The current roster hasn’t anything to do with their draft history at certain positions. Rosters change because players get traded, they depart in FA, they get injured, sometimes before they ever play a down in the NFL.
Here’s JS/PC’s Day 1/Day 2 (R1-R3) draft history with respect to OL and DB:
2010
OL – Okung @6
DB – Thomas @13
2011
OL – Carp @25
OL – Moffit @75
2014
OL – Britt @64
2012, 2013, 2015
None
4 OL vs 1 DB. That’s quite a difference. In comparison between those 2 position groups, SEA invest much more draft capital in OL.
Also, here’s JS/PC’s Day 3 (R4-R7) draft history with respect to OL and DB:
2010:
DB – Thurmond @111
DB – Chancellor @133
2011
DB- Sherman @154
DB – Maxwell @173
2012
DB – Lane @172
OL – Sweezy @225
2013
DB – Simon @135
OL – Seymour @220
OL – Bowie @242
2014
DB – Pinkins @208
2015
OL – Poole @130
OL – Glow @143
DB – Smith @170
DB – Murphy @248
9 DB vs. 5 OL.
Since 2010, SEA have spent Day 1/2 picks on 4 OL but only 1 DB, and they’ve spent Day 3 picks on 9 DBs vs. 5 OL.
“Do you pay up for mediocre talent? Or do you try to develop your own for cheap?” The evidence is clear as to what JS/PC do. They’ve paid up for mediocre OL talent, and developed their own DB talent for cheap.
My top 50 Seahawks 2016 Draft Board (Day #1 and Day #2) Does not include QBS or consensus top 10 picks. If there are guys I am missing let me know.
I am going to do a day #3 top 25 Big Board as well for the small school guys etc.
Picks #1-10 the rest to follow
#1 Sheldon Rankins (DT Louisville) A true penetrating 3 Tech DT. He is unique in this draft. He fits the Hawks scheme perfectly and IMO could have the greatest impact on the Hawks defense in 2016 of any prospect. Think about a Nascar package of Rankins, Bennett in the middle and Avril, Clark off the edge.
#2 Shon Coleman (OL Auburn) Great athlete with good length and very nasty. Could start at RT day #1 and bring a real edge to the OL. Love his backstory and we know the Hawks love players who have overcome adversity. No one has overcome more than Coleman. Draft Coleman, move Webb to LG and we solidify two more spots on the OL.
#3 Keanu Neal (S Florida) Love the player and the first prospect I have seen in 3-4 years who could truly replace Chancellor and keep the Boom in LOB. He will be an impact player for the team that gets him. If not us I hope it is an AFC team.
#4 Germain Ifedi (OL Tex A&M) – Incredible physical specimen. He have discussed him in depth here and I think he could be a perennial pro bowler at LG. Love the Osemelle comp.
#5 William Jackson (CB Houston) We never take a CB early but if we did Jackson is who we would take. Great length, speed and ball skills. I think he is going to be a special player in a passing league that values a true lock down corner.
#6 Jack Conklin (OT Mich St.) Tough SOB who if we draft will likely be a solid RT for the next 8-10 years. Not a flashy pick just very solid and tough.
#7 Chris Jones (DT Miss St.) Incredible talent (top 10 IMO) he just needs to put it together. I think he has pro bowl potential if he gets in the right organization. One of my favorite game tapes is him against Mizzou this year. He is a one man wrecking machine. Potential is off the charts but so is the potential for him to be a bust.
#8 Jaylon Smith (LB ND) My top rated player prior to the injury. Would love to see the Hawks take a 2nd round flier on this incredible talent. It would be like trading your 2nd rounder for a top 10 pick in 2017.
#9 Darron Lee – (LB Ohio St) Incredible speed and athlete. Can you imagine an LB core of Lee, Wags and Wright. Wow!
#10 Cody Whitehair- (OL K St) Not a great tester at combine but his game tape is really, really good. Love the Zach Martin comp. Would be one of the lowest risk, high upside picks in the whole draft IMO.
I’m assuming this is in order for which player you’d want the Hawks to take?
Your first 4 is identical to my first 4. Idk if Rankins can fall that far, but one can hope. I like Coleman the most for any O-line position, then Ifedi. Neal, he’s kind of an enigma for me, but he’d be so fun to watch lining up next to Wags. On Coleman, as much as I want him, he may slip into the second a ways (at least according to some so called experts) so if we don’t grab him on day 1, I’ll still have some optimism about day 2.
If we draft Jaylon Smith at 56. We have him for 4 years. If he’s on IR his entire rookie year and plays in year 2. He’s considered a rookie right? I know they do that in the NBA. But then we only have him for 3 years. Is this accurate, or no?
I believe that Jaylon Smith would be put on NFI (Non Football Injury – even though its a football injury it is not an NFL injury) list and this would be the way they would be able to keep him for a year without a year accrued. IR would accrue a year. But with this said, I would still want to wait till the third round.
I realy like Neal and his tape but why pick him up to shift him to deathbacker when there are options like Jatavis Brown Someone who is already a deathbacker type play and has ridiculous stats if he were 6-3 he would probably be a top 20 pick he also produced decently against higher level teams (16 tackles against Pitt 7 tackles and a sack against Oklahoma). Somewhat surprisingly he can rush the passer and hits like a hammer, i could see him make teams really fear the middle again. The more tape you watch of him the more you’ll forget that he is 5-11
Yes this is my Hawks ranking of players for the Hawks only.
Here are #11 -20
#11 Johnathan Bullard (DT FLA) Been discussed in detail already
#12 Emanuel Ogbah (Edge, Oak St.) Incredible size, length, speed athlete who had production but also some of the worst tape you will ever see for a 1st round prospect. Like Jones he is incredibly high ceiling and bust potential.
#13 Javon Hargraves (DT SC St.) The 2nd best penetrating 3 tech in the class who is really under rated IMO. He will end up being a 3rd round steal for someone. I hope it is the Hawks.
#14 Charles Tapper (DL Oak)- Incredible combine workout with all the measurables the hawks look for. He was a real leader at Oak but his production did not match up with combine #s. Would be an ideal rotational pass rusher right out of the gate.
#15 Andrew Billings (DT Baylor) Incredible athlete for his size and if the Hawks were going to take a 1 Tech early then I think he would be the guy as he has huge upside. Needs to work on gap control but that can be coached up. I think he goes to Pitt in Rd #1.
#16 Noah Spence (Edge EKU)- His combine was a disappointment but I still think he is the best natural pass rusher in the class with great hand use and bend around the edge. I predict he will be a consistent 8-12 sack guy in the NFL. The drug issue is a concern but seems to be behind him.
#17 Ryan Kelly (C Alabama) Everything has him as the consensus best Center in the draft. I have him in a dead heat with Nick Martin. He is tough smart and a decent athlete. Will be a 10 year starter in the NFL but I am not sure he has the upside of guys like Mcgovern at Center long term. Still would be a nice pick for the Hawks to sure up the middle of the OL
#18 Nick Martin – (C, ND) Solid is the word to describe Martin. He is not a dynamic athlete but does everything well. If there is a position we consistency and being solid are a compliment and requirement it is Center. I would be ecstatic if he were a hawks pick in the 2nd or 3rd round but he does not seem to be the type of athlete they go for.
#19 Willie Henry (DL Mich) Frank Clarks buddy who is more of a DT but can play inside out. I think he is really under rated and will end up being a 2nd round pick. He would fit nicely in our DL rotation but not sure if he will be available in the 3rd round where I think he provides better value. He is not Frank Clark.
#20 William Fuller (WR ND) If you want a deep threat in this draft class Fuller and Coleman are your only two elite options. As a result Fuller will be picked in the 1st round despite questionable hands. He looks like a protype hawks receiver but will go before we pick and I think we have far bigger needs than WR. Still like the player though.
Here are #21-30
#21 Braxton Miller (WR Ohio St.) My favorite hawks WR option. Love his passion for the game and he just seems like he would fit right in our WR room. I think he will end up being the best WR in this class in 3 years. I know we don’t need a WR but if he is there in Rd#2 have would have to be considered as a replacement for Baldwin if he can’t be resigned.
#22 Deion Jones (LB LSU) Speed, Speed, Speed is how I would describe him. Flies to the ball and brings some thump despite being undersized. Fits the mold of the new deathbacker roll perfectly. Someone will be getting a guy who can contribute instantly and be a standout on special teams as well.
My 3rd Round Comp Pick #23 Tyler Ervin (RB SJ St.) Rob has said it all about this guy. He is the perfect RB in this draft to compliment the guys we have in Rawls and Cmike. He is tough and dynamic. I love the Harvin without the attitude comp. We gave up a 1st rounder and 25 mil for Harvin. I hope we can spend at least a 3rd rounder on Ervin.
#24 Joe Haeg (OL, ND St) Primarily known as the guy who protected Carson Wentz blindside. He comes from a diverse athletic background as a hockey player and wrestler which really showed up in his agility #s. He will be a Guard in the NFL but could be a swing guy if needed. Just seems like the type of guy Cable would like. I think he would be a solid pick with a lot of upside in the 3rd / 4th round. Given the hype though he may be this years version of Ali Marpet and go higher than expected.
#25 Travis Feeney (LB Wash) Love the player, hate the injuries. As Rob always says the #1 trait in any in a player is availability. We all knock Hill and Okung for injuries. Feeney horrendous injury history and as a result would be no higher than a 4th rounder for me. That being said if not for the injuries he would easily be a 2nd rounder. He is an elite athlete who is also a play maker. Incredible special teamer as well. If some team gets him in the 4th -5th round and he stays healthy he could be the steal of the entire draft. Or he could suffer a shoulder injury in training camp and never play a game. Big risk big reward with this guy. Would love him as our 4th or 5th round pick.
#26 Eli Apple (CB Ohio St) Not a guy we will ever drat but still really like his game. Rock solid and never gets beat deep which is the #1 quality I look for in any CB. Someone is going to get a rock solid corner in Rd #1.
#27 Christian Westerman (G Ariz St.) Strong, athletic and tough. If we did not have Glowinski he would be the ideal RG in our system. You are getting an 8-10 year nasty guard in the mold of a JR Sweezy with better pass pro.
#28 La Raven Clarke (OT Tex Tech) This guy has the perfect frame to be a LT. He could end up being the best Tackle in the entire draft not named Tunsil in 3 years. If he goes to a team like Washington that has a great OL coach like Callahan look out. That being said he is a complete rebuild with some of the worst technique you will ever see. Another true boom / bust prospect but I think he would be worth the risk for the Hawks at the end of Rd 2 or 3 if we don’t go OT in Rd#1
#29 Sterling Sheppard (WR Oak) I keep hearing the comp to Tyler Locket and it is legit. He does not have Locket’s top end speed but does everything else in a similar fashion. He is going to really help a team right out of the gate.
#30 Connor Mcgovern (OL Mizzou) A favorite here on SDB. I think he is a tad over rated but think he is solid with impressive strength and the ability to be a quality Guard or Center. I would be really happy if he and Ervin where our 3rd round picks. Any higher than that is a reach IMO.
Trevor, these are well detailed, and great to read up on. Thx for putting in the time here.
Here are #31-40
#31 Nick Vannett (TE Ohio St) If we go TE in the first 4 rounds I hope it is Vannett. He is not a dynamic athlete but is almost a Zach Miller clone IMO. Great blocker with elite level hands. He would add a nice dimension as a better inline blocker to our TE group. Graham, Willson, Vannett would be the 2nd best and most diverse TE group in the NFL after the Pats with Gronk and Bennet. If our OL is going to be as weak as expected then a TE who can block could be a huge help.
#32 Kyler Fackrell (LB Utah St) Another guy who is a favorite here on SDB. I like him but also think he is a little over rated and would be a 3rd rounder at best for me. I think he is a good athlete but his production in a lower level conference was not elite and that is a concern for me.
#33 Graham Glagow (OL Mich) Another tough, nasty, athletic G/C who would fit in nicely on our line. I like that he had a year under Harbaugh and seems to be on the upswing. A very nice option if Mcgovern, Westerman are off the board.
#34 Josh Doctson (WR TCU) He is a guy on the rise on my board as the more I watch him the more I like. He had a great combine and could easily be a 1st rounder if a guy like Treadwell falls.
#35 CJ Prosise (RB, ND) If we miss on Ervin he is my next favorite option as a 3rd down back. A converted WR with good speed he would fit in nicely in our backfield with nice upside as well.
#36 Adolphus Washington (DL Ohio St) Poor combine and spotty tape will cause him to fall but if he is there in Rd #3 and we do not get a DT early he might be an option. He has good pass rush potential from the interior and would be a nice rotational guy or replacement for Hill. Any higher than the 3rd round is a reach for me.
#37 Josh Garnett (LG Stanford) Smart, tough nasty mauling LG who is a local kid as well. Love the attitude and smarts. He would be a great addition to the locker room and might fit the LG mold Cable looks for. He is not a great athlete though and is strictly a guard. I don’t see the Hawks taking him early but if some other guys they like are gone he might be an option if there in Rd #3 as a plug and play LG.
#38 Bronson Kaufusi (DL BYU) Rob has said it all about this guy. Another guy who is like more on SDB than my personal rankings. A 3rd rounder at best on my board.
#39 Karl Joseph (S W Vir) With Earl in the fold I don’t think we will take a FS early but he is my favourite one in this draft. One of the most instinctive players in this draft class with a nose for the football. He is tough leadership guy as well. If not for the injury would have been in the 1st round discussion I think.
#40 Sua Cravens (S /LB ND) The Titans and Dick Lebeau will take this guy in the 2nd round and have his new Trot P. He is a real playmaker who can play LB or Safety. Has solid coverage skills and will play starting Day #1.
I will post #41-50 as well as the Day #3 Big Board (my favorite part of the draft) later today. Look forward to seeing who you guys think I missed and over / under rated.
Totally on board with drafting Vannett. I want him pretty bad!
As do I.
I’ve be banging on the drums for a in line TE for 2 years now. the only TE we draft was Anthony McCoy who was coming into his own his 3rd year got injured but we had gone out and grabbed a Zach Miller in FA which I think was great at making that line better. Jimmy Graham is not a TE in my opinion. He that tall big receiver that Seattle likes in the Red Zone so I’m not even looking for a Tall WR anymore until graham is gone. Willson has 1 year left and we have 2 others Cooper Helfet 6’3″ 239lbs. and Brandon Cotton 6’2″ 262lbs.
Nick Vannettt 6’6″ 257lbs. 34 1/4″arms, 10″ hands. 4.20 20yd shuttle,7.05 3-cone, and 4.85-40. All ya need to do with this guy is to give him a year to learn the ZBS and this guy will be a monster. If we get 15- 20 catchs for 200 to 250 yds it would be a win win situation for Seattle I believe. I think he goes in the 3rd but he could slide to pick 124 and I think that would be a steal for this guy.
Montana St. TE Beau Sandland 6’4″ 253lbs, 34 1/4″ arms, 10 1/8″ hands.
4.74/2.76/1.67 40yd, 35″ VJ, 124″ BJ, 4.33 SS, 7.10 3C, 23 BP.
SEA was at Montana St pro day.
Thanks for the info! Good to know they are checking out MSU players. Hopefully they are checking out some UM guys while they are at it…
Funny that Luke Willson is listed as 250 lbs and 6′-5″, yet he’s not a great blocker and looks lighter than that. Luke is fast as hell, but he doesnt hold onto the ball when hit and has inconsistent hands.
Vannett may need to gain some weight considering he’s so tall and not very fast.
Big fan of Beau Sandland.
How similar are these 2?
Vandy TE Steven Scheu- 6’4, 253 lbs.
4.75 40, 2.76 20, 1.65 10, 33″ inch vert, 9’8″ foot broad jump, 23 reps on the BP, 4.35 SS, 7.14 3 cone.
Seattle also at Vandy’s pro day.
Scheu is considered legally blind without his glasses or contacts.
Almost identical. They seem to be sniffing around late/UDFA TE prospects.
Those must be some thick contacts.
Yeah, McCoy was just finding his groove. Those two years lost to Achilles injuries or whatever may have ruined him though. What a shame.
Seattle could really use an actual all-around TE, thats for sure. And no matter what they say, there’s no guarantee Graham regains his speed and agility this year or ever. Victor Cruz had the same injury and he missed two seasons (he had other complications as well) and nobody knows what he’ll be like when he finally makes it back.
Brock Huard said that this is a terrible draft for Tight-End. Many of the top college players that have a build for the tight-end position on instead turning to rushing the passer. Look at how much a pass rusher is making compared to a tight-end.
That is why Vannett may go higher than he should.
The more I think about it, the more I feel the Seahawks would be more than happy if Javon Smith were to fall to them in the first round. After the disappointment shown at Seattle’s draft table when New England plucked Dominique Easily in the 2014 draft just 3 picks before Seattle was to pick (Seattle had a back up plan and traded back), there is evidence in my eyes that this management team is willing to sit on a quality prospect for a year if they have to. When you think about it, it does make sense.
First, both JS and PC have stated that in any given year the team has only 15 to 18 prospect rated as first rounders on Seattle’s draft board. Javon Smith certainly would be on that list as he was commonly rated in the 3 to 10 range for the whole draft before his knee injury. Easily was rated in the 12 to 18 range before his knee injury.
Second, with today’s surgery practices, medical and rehab experience, more and more players are coming back to play effectively after these types of knee injuries.
Third, there is no sure thing with any draft pick. Many picks each year get hurt training or in camp and never see the field until year two. In a way, drafting Javon Smith this year is like pre
drafting a top ten pick next year. You just have to be willing to wait. Seattle, like most teams, like to go into a draft being able to take the best player available regardless of position in the first round.
You’re referring to Jaylon Smith correct?
I stand corrected! Good catch.
I would prefer to sure up the OL in Rd #1 but if Smith is there in Rd #2 I would like that pick even if there is a 50/50 shot Smith will have a full recovery. He is a special player.
I don’t think anyone can call it 50-50 to be honest, or know how good he’ll be when he returns. It appears to be Marcus Lattimore serious.
Not sure the Seahawks will want a ‘could be great’ over an impact guy.
Rob based on recent reports it sounds like more of an when Smith will be back than if. If the reports of him squatting 400lbs without a brace are true then he is well on my way. My bigger question if that is true is why the heck is is taking a chance like that this early in his recovery.
The Hawks are showing great patience and investment in Jimmy Graham who is coming back from an equal serious injury and I think they have the roster flexibility to take 2nd round flier on a top 5 pick without the injury. I really do compare it to trading your 2nd round pick in 2016 for a top 10 pick in 2017.
But I am no doctor and someone a million times smarter than me will be looking at his knee and informing the Hawks on what to do. So really not a whole lot of sense spending a lot of time on him because how would we ever know what those medical reports really are.
They already owned Jimmy when he got injured so it’s not like they have anything to lose by showing great patience with him.
That’s a world of difference from drafting a guy with this kind of injury. The reports of his progress are encouraging, but even if they’re 100% accurate, there’s no comparing the impact of lifting weights and playing professional football to a weak knee.
I would look at it like this though — the Seahawks use their third linebacker on only so many snaps. Having Smith healthy would be nice, but it’s not really necessary next to KJ and Bobby. If they could add an impact pass rusher or OL in round two — that to me gives you a better chance to win a Championship this year.
The nerve damage on Smith’s knee is the issue really. He will heal like Lattimore. It’s about the long lasting damage though.
The nerve damage issue is huge as I know from personal experience as I still cannot raise my arm past shoulder height from multiple shoulder dislocations and subsequent surgeries. If he really does have extensive nerve damage then he will go undrafted.
I get what you are saying and for a team in the middle of a championship window then you are right drafting a guy who can have an impact this year does make more sense.
I just think of the Jaylon Smith prior to the injury in a Hawks uni and the thought of him lining up next to Wags and KJ would be pretty amazing.
As usual Rob thanks for bringing a sense of reality and common sense to the discussion.
Lattimore never played a snap in the NFL. No one knows if Smith can come back from the injury. There were good reports on Lattimore at one time and his injury recovery. If Smith is even able to make it back to the field, there is no guarantee he is the same player. His injury may have robbed him of what made him great.
He is such an unknown, it would be wasting a pick to draft him before day three.
For some reason I’d love for them to trade out of the first round… I love that we only have one 1st rounder on our team… Don’t want any more… Even the trades of 1st rounders didn’t work out too well…I love our 1 1st rounder but let’s load up on mid-rounders and UDFAs… They seem to do well in drafting in those spots. And I love the attitude the mid and low rounders bring
Pretty much agree with Rob and majority of comments: OL/DL in first 2 rounds. Talent will be there, either way.
It will be interesting to see if/when they take a RB/WR. Need a RB to share the load and get back to wearing teams down or mix it up with a back like Ervin. No guarantee that Baldwin signs extension.
Would not be surprised by Decker/Spriggs, Fack, McGovern, Ervin, Blair III.
As for Seattle not wanting a “pampered” first round pick, I dont see it that way. The simplest solution is usually the most correct one, and in this case, the simplest solution is that Seattle just did a horrible job of scouting talent when they picked Carpenter in the first, Britt at the bottom of the second, and Moffitt in the third round. Few of their Offensive Line draft picks have worked out, and they have passed over plenty of fine players along the line to draft guys who failed or never lived up to their draft status.
I have no idea if Seattle will draft an O-lineman at 26, but my feeling is they will trade down and take one in the second, and likely one in the third or fourth round as well. If they miss out on a guy they like, they will then wait till later in the draft to get a guy/guys they feel have upside and can be projects. There is decent depth at O-linen in the draft, and Cable has made a habit of passing on more highly rated players to take guys he sees something in anyhow.
Also, unlike many here, I dont see any players worth taking at 26 falling that far. I think there will be a run on tackles, DT’s, and CB’s in the first round.
I meant I dont see Tackles worth taking at 26 still being there.
Hey Rob, do you think it’s possible Le’Raven Clark makes it to us in the second round? I really like his upside.
Maybe. It’s not out of the realms of possibility.
Rob, when you watch him, do you think he loves football? Here was a four year starter and he still does not have the basics down. I think he may be a guy that plays football because he is a good athlete and maybe even likes to play, but loves? I am not sure.
I personally would stay away from him, as I do not think he has a desire to be great or even good.
The scheme and Texas Tech offense maybe had an impact there.
I don’t know him well enough to judge if he likes football. His upside is very intriguing and he could be a stud at left tackle if it works out. That’s the ceiling. But hard to say whether it’ll ever click. Coaches will look forward to working with him.
There’s a rumor that he’s going in the top 40.
From Eric Galko at Optimum Scouting:
“Le’Raven Clark in the top-40 appears highly likely. Steelers make sense, but the Seahawks are the best fit. Despite his poor film and need for ample development, more than a few NFL OL coaches feel he’s a worthwhile project.”
Scares me to think of drafting a project at 26. I guess if they think he is LIKELY to become a total stud LT, then Im good with it. Otherwise, trade down and nab him or Ifedi. If they are there still…NFL loves them some LT prospects…
IMO: OT-Nembot may have a very similar upside and is probably a rd-6/7/UDFA draft selection, so he could likely be had at less cost than Clark for a somewhat comparable raw prospect for further development. Height/weight, etc. seem fairly similar.
I’m going to keep thumping for West GA OT Dominique Robertson as a late/UDFA LT project.
For comparison:
Nembot – 6’6″ 322lbs, 34 5/8″ arms, 10 3/4″ hands
‘Nique – 6’5″ 324lbs, 36″ arms, 10 3/8″ hands
Nembot – 5.39/3.11/1.86 40yd, 26.5″ VJ, 103″ BJ, 4.99 SS, 7.81 3C, 32 BP
‘Nique – 5.36/3.10/1.85 40yd, 28.5″ VJ, 100″ BJ, 4.83 SS, 8.42 3C, 30 BP
Note that Nembot’s results are a combination of the best from Combine and pro day. Dominique did position drills only at his pro day so his numbers are Combine only.
I haven’t seen much tape of either prospect. But what I have seen of Robertson corroborates what I’ve heard about him – which is that he plays with a nasty streak. He’s untested because he’s from a D2 school, but the tools are there.
SEA sent a scout to his pro day.
“(Clark) was a four year starter and he still does not have the basics down. I think he may be a guy that plays football because he is a good athlete” coug1990
Agreed. Clark has played a ton and still doesn’t understand basic blocking angles. To many using proper angles to protect the edge is an innate skill. Clark started 4 years in a passing offense and still consistently uses poor angles in pass pro. Sure some of the blame could be piled on Texas Tech’s coaching staff, but a player not being able to grasp basic blocking skills in 4 years is a big concern.
The more I think of it, the more my answer is “who cares?” Not worth 2nd round pick, IMO. Thinking is this: if you don’t believe Gilliam can be at least an average LT, I don’t think you can afford to wait until R2 to pick a project LT. Somebody has to play LT this year, not in three years. So grab Spriggs or Coleman or Ifedi in R1 and roll with it.
OTOH, if you believe Gilliam can be at least an average at LT, then you don’t need to draft a project in R2 who ultimately is only being drafted that high because he would be an LT. Gilliam is young and would be under team control for a while. So we’d be *much* better off spending that R2 pick on a position where a guy could come in and play right away at a needed spot, like OLB or DL or C/G.
Short version: Clark would only be worth that high of a pick because he’s a LT. But if you NEED an LT, he’s not ready enough to be picked that high. And if you don’t need an LT, what are you drafting him for? There are guys all over the draft that are more ready and more able to play all of the other spots on the OL, so take them instead.
Rob do you like Mcgovern as a prospect because of his measurable’s and combine performance or because of his game tape? I really want to get on board with him as a potential pick but whenever I watch that Mizzou Ol from this past year they are terrible. What the heck am I missing on Mcgovern and Boehm? Do you have any links to tape that really show Mcgoverns potential?
I think you are dead on and Mcgovern is probably very high in the Hawks board and I would like to get on board the train. I felt the same about Morse last year and you convinced me by draft time that he made sense as a pick and he went really early to KC. Perhaps Mcgovern is in the same boat. The whole converting from tackle to guard or center is where I struggle with evaluating him.
Rob, with this draft it seems like the simple math is in the Seahawks’ favor, there are more high quality guys in the top-50 than I’ve ever seen. Do you think it’s possible the Seahawks could look to add another top-50 pick in order to get two first round quality players? Maybe move a 2017 pick or package of picks?
I think it’s unlikely just because they don’t have a ton of needs — they can address their key ones with their top four picks. They’ll get a cool class this year.
Rob & SDB Nation… Doesn’t seem as if we will walk away with three, maybe four of OUR PLAYERS!
Even if JS trades out of the first, I believe things are going to work out for us this year. Can hardly wait.
I think young defenders are sorely needed. I have faith in JS’ ability to find good players late in the draft, but after Coyle – I’m not sure there’s a young LB we can rely on. There is a need to replenish the WLB and SLB positions. Also, the interior DL rotation is a major question mark. The secondary is also getting thin when you look beyond 2016. Depending on your opinion of Stanley J-P, Tye Smith and Mo Seisay, the CB position might be in the best shape – but we have no idea how they’ve been progressing. If the goal is truly to win forever it could behoove us to use this defense heavy draft to find a defensive stud or two early with an eye on 2017, and let him get work as a rotational player in 2016.
Chancellor, Shead, Siliga, Bennett, Morgan, Wright – some of these projected starters for 2016 will likely be gone in 2017. Neal, Jackson III, Billings, Rankins, Ragland are all interesting players that could be needed sooner rather than later at their respective positions.
Given the Football Outsiders statistics about the pass defense quality of Super Bowl teams, and the defensive Seahawks identity, perhaps both OL and DL will wait and the 1st round pick may be someone like Eli Apple (if he makes it to #26) or William Jackson.
SEA have consistently been one of the best pass-defense teams in the League, with nary a Day 1 or 2 pick at CB. Why would they need to do that now? Especially to the detriment of other position groups where they struggled?
Just playing devil’s advocate, but there are a few reasons.
The indications are that they see the second and third round picks as places where they can get the OL and DL talent they have targeted in the past. OL depth (for the kind of lineman Seattle prefers) is extraordinarily good. This years third round gets you a second rounder in other years.
On the defensive side, if they get Rankins at #26 that’s one thing, but beyond the top D linemen there’s a big drop off (I think). A small handful of first rounders and a big pool of fourth rounders with not much in between.
So it’s not as much about drafting to address more pressing needs considering the excellence pass defense. Even casual observers could see that our OL last year was a hot mess. But fixing that mess in this year’s draft may not require the #26 pick. And that pick may not get us much better at the DL spot. So, absent a startling plummet DL or OL pick at #26 (Rankins or Conklin), if Apple is there I think they sprint to the podium. If there are no receivers open it’s hard for opposing QBs to throw the ball. That’s why Cary Williams got the boot. If Seattle can avoid rolling three-year $18M FA contract dice at that spot again I think they will.
However, I think Apple lasting that late is a pipe dream. I like William Jackson but don’t know that he’s Seahawky enough.
But to answer your question “Why would they need to do that now?”, my answer would be that based on the Football Outsiders stats, high quality pass defense is a minimum requirement for longevity in the playoffs. If the other areas of concern are/can be addressed later, why not reinforce the area that you need the most?
Their target DBs are getting drafted higher nowadays, they’ll have to adapt if they want another elite (Sherman-like) CB. The copycat league isn’t going to let Maxwells, Shermans, and Simons slip into the late rounds anymore. That’s why Seisay and SJP were overdrafted. It’s why Tray Walker (RIP) and Dontae Johnson were overdrafted. I think it’s why Seattle has struggled to draft a good DB prospect in quite a while. Burley was a trade, Seisay was a trade, SJP was a free agent – the last good draft picks were Lane and (when healthy) Simon. If they want another great CB across from Sherman, they’re going to have to invest something (draft pick or money). Lane’s a very good player, I’m excited that he stayed in Seattle, but I don’t know if he’s enough by himself.
Dude, that kid from W. Kentucky is unreal!
OT George Fant-6’6, 295 lbs., 4.84 40, 37″ inch vert, 9’11” broad jump.
Waiting on his other #’s.
Former BBer. Scouts had him catching passes and running routes at WKU pro day.
George Fant after running his 40. Keep in mind this guy is 6’6″ 295lbs
https://t.co/YBhHsPvPTm
Quite the physical specimen too.
Those are some crazy numbers for a 295 pound guy.
What position in the NFL would you see him playing at that weight? Maybe it’s just me, but seems a tad bit light.
I think he’d be a developmental OT.
Garry Gilliam weighed the same coming out.
It isn’t just the 40 time. A 37″ inch vert at 295 lbs is incredible.
But he’ll need to add some weight in the Pros. That could slow him down a bit, and then a 5.1 or 5.2 40 isnt anywhere near as impressive at 310 or 320.
Western Kentucky is a rather small school. Seems like a long-term project. Not that theres anything wrong with that.
Teams see this guy as a back-up OT, but primarily a TE…. if he was indeed catching passes and running routes. Gronk 2.0…. due to size and speed.
Tidbit re Ochi at Stony Brook pro day:
“Ochi’s dad wore a Tennessee Titans cap at the start of the day; later, he switched to the Seattle Seahawks. Friends joked that he has a hat for all 32 teams.”
No mention of SEA scouts being present however.
“Ochi has already worked out for the Titans and Arizona Cardinals, who dispatched pass-rushing coach Tom Pratt for a private session. The Cards must be interested because they’re flying Ochi to Arizona for a pre-draft visit.”
Ochi remains one of the few pass rushers who intrigue me in this draft. Would be a great mid/low round pick for the Hawks. Looks like odds are better that he suits up for the bad guys.
Ian Rapoport Verified Account
@RapSheet
The #Bengals are signing LB Karlos Dansby today, source said. The former #Browns defender visited last week.
7:45 AM – 29 Mar 2016
Disappointing. I was hoping that Dansby was going to sign with the Seahawks.
Oh well. More cap savings retained.
He wasn’t a good fit role-wise anyway.
Three oline prospects that we haven’t discussed much:
Parker Ehinger, Cincinnatti
Landon Turner, North Carolina
Brandon Shell, South Carolina
Thoughts?
Im excited about Gary Gilliam at left tackle. Take a look at this:
Weeks 1-5 Gilliam was ranked 54th in pass protection and 26th in run blocking. Weeks 5-10 he was ranked 25th in pass protection and 11th in run blocking. Weeks 11-13 Gilliam was ranked 17th in pass protection and 1st in run blocking.
Where are these rankings from?
The entire offensive focus changed in the second half of the season. The improvement isn’t necessarily just Gilliam improving.
yes, where are these ratings from?
I didnt see him being that dominant in the run game. But Im interested…tell me more.
I think if you drop Garry Gilliam into THIS draft with his NFL tape from 2015 and you add in his combine/pro-day workouts from Penn State, you have a 1st round pick. He has as much upside as any prospect you could hope to draft and he’s already handled some of the premier ends in the NFL.
There’s still room to add another potential starter at RT or LG, but I doubt there’s a draft pick more qualified to start at LT than Gilliam in 2016. So now we’re down to talking about competition for Webb, Sowell, Britt and possibly Poole at RT and LG.
When you break down the OL position by position, it doesn’t seem to be as glaring of a need with the LT position resolved.
Vadal Alexander: This blog is not a fan
However, I was wondering what people think his range is… Are we talking a day two prospect or a late rounder?
Late round pick IMO.
Thoroughly unathletic. Horrible combine. Overrated tape. Just bad.
The nightmare draft for Rob would be Shilique Calhoun followed by Vadal Alexander. Hah!