If Sly Williams falls into day two, he'd be a great option for Seattle
Most people voted in favour of keeping trades in the mock, so that’s what I’ve done. There are nine in total this week — a comparable amount to what we saw in the first round last year. Looking at this draft class overall I think we’ll see a lot of cheap movement. We might see a handful of deals that go against market value. A lot of the teams picking in the 11-20 range for example might want to move up to fill a certain need. But I can also see a few teams (like Cleveland) that’ll be more than happy to move down.
Buffalo (#8) trades with Jacksonville (#2) for a 2nd round pick + 2014 2nd rounder
The Jaguars sent a convoy to Geno Smith’s pro-day but this looked like a classic smokescreen. They’ll almost certainly look to move down. With Chris Mortensen repeatedly linking Oakland to Geno Smith, this could force potential suitors to act. Buffalo GM Buddy Nix said during the 2012 season that it could be time to move up and get a quarterback. I suspect Smith will go second overall, it’s just a case of which team moves up.
San Diego (#11) trades with Cleveland (#6) for a 2nd round pick
This makes too much sense. The Browns don’t have a second rounder after taking Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft last year. The Chargers need a left tackle badly. Assuming one of Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson is still on the board at #6 — San Diego could move up to get their guy.
Carolina (#14) trades with Arizona (#7) for a 3rd + 5th round pick
The Cardinals need to put down some roots at quarterback. Last year was a farce. And with the possibility of the top-three tackles going early, it takes away their other big need as an alternative. Having said that, they could move down and get the next best available quarterback. Carolina might be prepared to move up and fill a big need at defensive tackle. With Sharrif Floyd still available in this projection, they do just that.
Dallas (#18) trades with Cleveland (#11) for a 3rd + 5th round pick
Jerry Jones has shown a willingness to move up in the draft. The Cowboys are transitioning to a 4-3 and need the pieces to make it work. Jay Ratliff’s latest arrest is a concern and Dallas might be considering moving on. They could move up to get Star Lotulelei. He did everything at his pro-day today and the medical news appears to be positive.
Chicago (#20) trades with Tampa Bay (#13) for a 3rd round pick
The Bears don’t have a ton of needs but they can’t be totally satisfied with their offensive line even after signing Jermon Bushrod. Trading up for a guard is uncommon, but Jonathan Cooper is up there with Chance Warmack and Mike Iupati as players worth taking in this range. Tampa Bay knows it can get a cornerback at #20.
Minnesota (#23) trades with New York (#19) for a 4th round pick
The Vikings have two first round picks and might use one to move up and get a playmaker at receiver. Even after signing Greg Jennings, they could use another X-factor type like Cordarrelle Patterson. The Giants have plenty of defensive options remaining in this scenario and feel comfortable moving down four spots.
Atlanta (#30) trades with Green Bay (#26) for a 4th round pick
With Bjoern Werner falling into the 20’s, Atlanta trades up to get an impact pass rusher. The value at #26 isn’t great for Green Bay’s needs so I’d guess they’ll be willing to move down.
San Francisco (#31) trades with Indianapolis (#24) for a 4th + 5th round pick
The Niners aren’t going to keep 14 rookies on their roster, so it stands to reason that they’ll move up at some point. Datone Jones looks like an ideal fit for their defensive front. Indianapolis, like Green Bay, aren’t going to get value at #24 if they want to target the offensive live. A trade makes sense for both teams. The Colts would probably like to get some extra picks after trading a 2nd round choice for Vontae Davis last season.
Philadelphia (#35) trades with Baltimore (#32) for a 5th round pick
Last year the Buccaneers moved back into the late first to select Doug Martin. Denver traded down for a pittance, knowing they could get Derek Wolfe on day two. We could see something similar here. The Eagles re-signed Michael Vick but he’s not the future. Neither is Nick Foles in this offense. E.J. Manuel is trending upwards.
Seattle’s pick in round two is fairly straightforward. It appears they are concentrating on re-signing Kam Chancellor and maybe also Earl Thomas and Golden Tate. We’ll see how much cap room they have left when those talks are concluded. If they’re unable to sign a free agent defensive tackle, it becomes a big need in the draft. And if Sylvester Williams drops to #56 he has to be an option. His age (25 year old rookie) will put some teams off. The depth at tackle is also likely to push some attractive options down the board.
Don’t forget — We’ve teamed up with NFLSHOP.com so you can get hold of a new Percy Harvin jersey. So if you want to support the Seahawks on gameday with an online purchase, do it through Seahawks Draft Blog!
First round
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#1 Luke Joeckel (T, Texas A&M) Their reported willingness to discuss a trade for Branden Albert makes this a formality. |
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#2 Geno Smith (QB, West Virginia) Buddy Nix said it was time to move up and get their quarterback. |
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#3 Dion Jordan (DE, Oregon) They need to build a foundation. Jordan has as much talent as anyone in this draft. |
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#4 Eric Fisher (T, Central Michigan) Having made significant moves to boost the defense in free agency, they now concentrate on the offensive live. |
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#5 Dee Milliner (CB, Alabama) With Joeckel and Fisher off the board, they take the best corner. |
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#6 Lane Johnson (T, Oklahoma) Having seen Joeckel and Fisher leave the board, they don’t wait to see if Johnson will be there at #11. |
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#7 Sharrif Floyd (DT, Florida) Perhaps Carolina’s biggest need. They pay a big price to jump ahead of Jacksonville. |
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#8 Sheldon Richardson (DT, Missouri) He’s too good to pass up. |
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#9 Chance Warmack (G, Alabama) Rex Ryan’s future beyond 2013 is unclear, so go back to running the ball. A solid pick with no long term issues if there’s a coaching change. |
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#10 Ziggy Ansah (DE, BYU) Someone is likely to take a chance on Ansah in the top-ten. |
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#11 Star Lotulelei (DT, Utah) The Cowboys are transitioning to a 4-3 and need an interior presence. Jerry Jones is not afraid to move up. This is health permitting. |
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#12 Kenny Vaccaro (S, Texas) The Dolphins could do with improving their secondary. |
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#13 Jonathan Cooper (G, North Carolina) Ok, they signed Jermon Bushrod. They still need to keep building that line. And I think they know it. |
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#14 Matt Barkley (QB, USC) After moving down for an extra two, they get their quarterback of the future. |
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#15 Jarvis Jones (DE, Georgia) Some teams will still be cautious, but if Jones’ back injury really isn’t as serious as feared — he should be a top-15 pick. |
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#16 Tavon Austin (WR, West Virginia) They want weapons on offense. Here’s a weapon. |
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#17 Alec Ogletree (LB, Georgia) Pittsburgh needs a linebacker and someone will roll the dice on his talent. |
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#18 Tyler Eifert (TE, Notre Dame) After trading down twice to accumulate picks, the Browns get a tight end for Rob Chudzinski. |
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#19 Cordarrelle Patterson (WR, Tennessee) Rather than hang about, Minnesota moves up to secure Patterson. |
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#20 Blidi Wreh-Wilson (CB, Connecticut) I just have a hunch there will be teams who rate this guy very highly. |
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#21 D.J. Fluker (T, Alabama) I’m not a fan personally, but then I was never really a fan of Andre Smith either. |
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#22 Eddie Lacy (RB, Alabama) With Steven Jackson in Atlanta, they need another big, physical runner to win in the NFC West. |
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#23 Barkevious Mingo (DE, LSU) He drops a bit and New York halts his slide. |
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#24 Datone Jones (DE, UCLA) The Niners need to bolster that defensive front and they have the picks to move up. |
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#25 Manti Te’o (LB, Notre Dame) Rick Spielman has already hit on two other Notre Dame players. Will he try and make it a hat-trick? |
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#26 Bjoern Werner (DE, Florida State) The Falcons move up to get an impact pass rusher. |
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#27 Xavier Rhodes (CB, Florida State) One of the hardest players to judge this year. Something puts me off this guy, despite the size and speed. |
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#28 Desmond Trufant (CB, Washington) They need to improve a porous secondary. |
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#29 DeAndre Hopkins (WR, Clemson) He could be Tom Brady’s new best friend. |
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#30 Robert Woods (WR, USC) They move down and grab a pass-catcher. This is a need considering they’ve lost both Greg Jennings and Donald Driver. |
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#31 Justin Pugh (G, Syracuse) Maybe Indy’s biggest need? |
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#32 E.J. Manuel (QB, Florida State) Like Tampa Bay last year (Doug Martin) the Eagles manufacture a cheap trade to move back into round one. |
Second round
#33 Jacksonville – Corey Lemonier (DE, Auburn)
#34 San Francisco- Jonathan Cyprien (S, Florida International)
#35 Baltimore – Matt Elam (S, Florida)
#36 Detroit – Tank Carradine (DE, Florida State)
#37 Cincinnati – Arthur Brown (LB, Kansas State)
#38 Arizona – Menelik Watson (T, Florida State)
#39 New York Jets – Zach Ertz (TE, Stanford)
#40 Tennessee – Jesse Williams (DT, Alabama)
#41 Jacksonville – Ryan Nassib (QB, Syracuse)
#42 Miami – Larry Warford (G, Kentucky)
#43 Tampa Bay – Khaseem Greene (LB, Rutgers)
#44 Carolina – Johnthan Banks (CB, Mississippi State)
#45 Cleveland – Mike Glennon (QB, NC State)
#46 St. Louis – D.J. Swearinger (S, South Carolina)
#47 Dallas – Travis Frederick (C, Wisconsin)
#48 Pittsburgh – Johnthan Hankins (DT, Ohio State)
#49 New York Giants – John Jenkins (DT, Georgia)
#50 Chicago – Keenan Allen (WR, Syracuse)
#51 Washington – Justin Hunter (WR, Tennessee)
#52 Minnesota – Kawann Short (DT, Purdue)
#53 Cincinnati – Jonathan Franklin (RB, UCLA)
#54 Miami – Jamar Taylor (CB, Boise State)
#55 Green Bay – Giovanni Bernard (RB, North Carolina)
#56 Seattle – Sylvester Williams (DT, North Carolina)
#57 Houston – Ryan Swope (WR, Texas)
#58 Denver – Phillip Thomas (S, Fresno State)
#59 New England – Dallas Thomas (G, Tennessee)
#60 Atlanta – D.J. Hayden (CB, Houston)
#61 San Francisco – Gavin Escobar (TE, San Diego State)
#62 Baltimore – Jamie Collins (LB, Southern Miss)
Sly Williams is the guy I want most in the 2nd round in a world were Allan branch doesn’t resign.
Sly Williams is the guy I want most in the 2nd round in a world were Allan branch doesn’t resign.
Also just a thought perhaps you should put the graphics with the second round now that that is the most prestigious round for hawk fans
did you write “in a world” in the voice of the movie trailer guy? lol
Yes yes I did
Nicely done William. I actually did laugh out loud.
I always hear Don LaFontaine when I read “in a world.” Thank you YTMND.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCqRAVj1Zxg
I don’t know, there was a time sly was being mocked to us in the 1st seems strange he is now being mocked to us in the second. Lets just say I would not be surprised if he falls this far
I think Williams has Mebane type upside. You’re not gonna jump and and down at the selection, but he will do his part to stuff the run and move the pocket to create space for the specialists. He’s not the 3rd round bargain Mebane was, but still a VERY solid get in the 2nd.
Mebane can’t play forever and it’s looking increasingly like we cannot take re-signing Branch for granted.
I see Sly Williams as a Mebane type as well. More of a gap shooter as a pass rusher than a block shedder, and very strong against the run.
That’s some pretty exciting players entering the NFC West.
If the pick had stayed Dallas Thomas or even Gavin Escobar I wouldn’t have had a problem either.
I think at #56 it’s going to be hard for Seattle to get jaw-dropping value unless someone way outperforms their scouting report (always possible). At the same time the depth in this draft is such that they should get a good football player.
Ryan Swope was still available! That makes me happy about this mock.
I would love to get Sly at 56. Steal. Interesting bit from NFP/Rotoworld-
National Football Post’s Russ Lande writes that some teams have North Carolina DT Sylvester Williams ahead of Florida DT Sharrif Floyd.
“An extremely gifted athlete with rare playing strength, competitiveness and initial quickness, Williams is viewed as one of the most versatile defensive linemen in the 2013 Draft,” Lande writes. “Teams are impressed with Williams’ ability to be a dominating player from any defensive alignment and are constantly impressed by his hustle to chase down plays that few defensive tackles make the effort to try to.” This is certainly surprising news.
I would rank Williams ahead of Floyd myself if we’re talking about a 4-3 defense.
Reeeally… That Is Interesting. Would You Elaborate, Please?
Good stuff. Williams looks to me to be the #3 DT in this draft…hopefully he can fall to us due to age and some inconsistant tape due to the ankle injury he sustained last season. I also have a gut feeling that Hankins may be there when we are on the clock. He seems to have all the tools to be a monster in the League, but watching him play, he has me scratching my head.
Now, if we could just have Gooden available when the Hawks are on the clock round three, I would be very pleased.
@Rob, with the shallow pool of LBs in the draft, where do you see Gooden being taken?
I think Gooden will go in rounds three or four.
I like Gooden because of his speed, but Sio Moore looks like a more complete LB and although his 4.65 isnt great, he has sideleine to sideline speed on tape.
I think with Hill leaving 3TDT and WLB are the only starting spots left unclaimed, although Smith and Morgan are capable there and we seem to have addressed the D line in free agency. BTW, I am loving having “too few holes to fill” as our problem this year.
My LB board for Rd 2 or 3 (hopefully 2 unless someone amazing drops)
Khaseem Greene
Sio Moore (can we get some tape of him up on here Rob?)
Zavier Gooden
Gerald Hodges
Chase Thomas
Jamie Collins
That would be a good pick. Both the clowns at ESPN have him going in the 20s in round 1 I saw so he may not drop to us, but we can sure dream
I’d love it if Williams fell in the 2nd round. I want us to leave this draft with him or John Simon. They must absolutely address the 3 tech spot if Branch does not resign.
God I wish we could have John Simon. Odds are he’ll be there when we select in Round 2. BUT tell me where you put him on this defense if you draft him PLEASE! Where?! Do you call the 260-pounder an interior rusher?! Do you put him on the outside despite his anti-LEO measurables and speed?!
The only reason this guy makes sense for us at all is because he is a tremendous leader… or as Urban Meyer put it: “A grown ass man.” For that reason I love the guy, and his tape is great, but on paper he doesn’t fit with us at all. Please help me to understand why we should draft him so that I will want us to do so.
I don’t think he played at 260. I seem to recall he played closer to 274 but don’t quote me on that. Rob would know.
I’d be pretty stoked if we got John Simon, Kawaan Short or Sly Williams.
He Played At 270 In 2011. In 2012, He Played At Around 257. I Listened ToAn Interview Where He Said He Was Stoked To Be Playing At The Lighter Weight Because He Was Faster And Had More Stamina, That The Extra Weight Was Mostly Fat, AnyWay…Sorry About My Droid Cap Problems…
I think there’s a flaw in your thinking at the end of round one. There’s at least six CB’s who could qualify as round one talent. Another 4 who qualify as round two talent. However there’s only two in the first tier: Dee Milliner (because of his game tape) and Xavier Rhodes (because of his measurables). All the other corners fall together in the same group. So if you’re picking at the end of round two, why would you waste your first pick on a CB when you know an equally talented one will be available with your second round pick? So I don’t buy a CB rush in the second half of the first round. The only way I’m wrong is one team that differentiates between Trufant, Poyer, Wreh Wilson, Hawthorne, Banks, Slay, Taylor and Ryan. I just don’t see it happening–the only one who has something that the others clearly don’t is Amerson and I can’t imagine him being a first round pick. Thus I disagree with you on this mock. I think a run on the DT’s is more likely in the second half of the first round and then a whole bunch of CB’s go in the second round. There are so many excellent DT’s in this draft, but they are all so different. One team will fall in love with Jesse W. and another one will do so with Sylvester W. and another for J. Jenkins–all for different reasons. I think the CB’s are just as good, but they just don’t differentiate, which is a requirement for a team’s decision to use their 1st round pick. I’m also upset that you have Glennon going to the Browns: Isn’t it predetermined that he will fail as the Cardinal’s pick? Which leads me to my suggestion for next week’s mock: The dream/nightmare scenario for Seattle’s NFC West foes. Mock the ideal draft for St. Louis, SF and Arizona getting the worst possible players–a dream for Seattle and a nightmare for their foes. At least we’ll have something to root for during the first round.
I have one cornerback with a first round grade only — Dee Milliner. I think Rhodes, Wreh-Wilson and Banks deserve to go in the early second. I think Trufant is a mid-rounder but others like him a lot. If there are teams out there that believe there are 2-3 guys with first round grades and cornerback (a premium position) is their greatest need, they aren’t likely to wait until a pick in the 50’s to pull the trigger.
The NFC West ‘worst nightmare’ idea is a great one though. I’ll do a piece on that very soon.
With Detroit’s losses on the line FA/retirement, don’t you think they would go Lane Johnson over Milliner at that spot?
Possibly, I definitely considered it. But then that’s an organisation that thought Jeff Backus and Goder Cherilus were the answer for a long time. They also drafted Riley Reiff in round one last year. Johnson has a lot of upside but I think Milliner overall is the better player. I think Detroit could find some decent options at tackle in round three and adding Milliner + Carradine here makes their defense a lot better. They’ll always score points after all with Stafford, Johnson and others. The defense need to be stronger overall.
Speaking of dream/nightmare scenarios with respect to divisional foes, the Rams have made a couple of key acquisitions in FA so far, with Jake Long and Jared Cook.
I think Rob is correct that they’ll go WR, RB and S in their first 3 picks. I’m just not sure about the order. If Vaccaro is available at 16, I think they make him their first choice.
Regardless of exactly how it goes down though, STL should be a dangerous team in 2013.
I agree that the Rams will and must use their first three picks for playmakers on offense. A WR followed by a RB.
It stands to reason that they’ll use 1 of their first 3 on a safety to replace Craig Dahl. If Vaccaro is available at 16, I don’t know that they could pass him up, especially given the depth at WR.
I like the Sylvester Williams pick a lot, it would be awesome if he fell to #56. I know this is kinda off topic, but what do you think of the new helmet penalty rule Rob? How badly do you think this is going to affect power runners like Lynch and the Seahawk’s overall running game?
Just a hunch, but I suspect it will barely register. I think we’ll see a couple of ‘obvious’ calls and this time next year we’ll wonder what we all panicked about. I think the concept is don’t use the helmet as a weapon. I think we’ll still see guys lower the helmet to protect themselves. And I think we’ll still see Beast Mode doing a great job.
Okay I have to comment on this. I really hope that the rule goes the way Rob said. But let’s look at the opposite side of it. It’s easy to see whether or not a player leads with the crown of his head in slow motion replay, as us fans are privileged to watch. But when you’re an NFL referee officiating a fast-paced NFL game, it’s going to be hard to see how those helmets are being used. These observations are going to be made in split-second windows, and it’s a complete judgment call. Now the referees not only have to worry about helmet-to-helmet contact, facemasks, horse collars and late hits, but now they will also have to watch for the crown of the helmet hits. How many things should referees be able to judge? My hope is that the call is made only when it is absolutely obvious, like the Trent Richardson hit last year. Anything more than that will be a disaster, especially for Marshawn Lynch and the Seahawks.
I’m against the rule. Too hard to enforce in real time which will lead to blown calls, and at a minimum should be reviewable. I vividly remember the Chancellor hit on Davis that was 100% legal but drew THREE flags. In slow motion, you could see it was clean, but in real time it did look illegal. Chancellor would later miss a tackle for about 20 yards because he was afraid to hit a guy, and the SNF commentators even picked up on it.
If a RB hesitates on lowering his head, that might lead to an increase in leg injuries. I think if this rule had been voted on by players or officials or coaches, it wouldn’t have passed. Given the high number of protests and complaints, I am surprised the rule was not tabled instead of going to a vote with businessmen who did not play the game.
I read an article about the rule change on either espn or field gulls and they said the nfl reviewed every game and there was like 10 instances of this were a flag should have been thrown so it shouldn’t have a huge impact. In a perfect world they would just fine guys after the fact similarly to the new flopping rule in the NBA, that way it wouldn’t effect the game but it would cost the players cash which should help modifiy behavior as much as a penalty would.
I agree. Force RBs to run standing up and you expose their legs more.
Also, the NFL’s assertion that only 10 plays would have drawn a flag last season ignores the problem of trying to officiate in real time.
There Has Been A Lot Of Talk About Sylvester William At 56. How Do You Guys Think He Compares To Brandon Williams? Sorry My Phone Is Capitalizing Every1st Letter…
I think he’s much more polished as you’d expect from a guy playing at UNC vs Southern Missouri. Williams is huge upper strength, not great lower body power. He’s quicker in shorts than he looked on tape (I’ve seen one game only, coaches version). Williams might take a long time to adjust. He looked like a fish out of water early at the senior bowl then looked much better later in the week. Personally I wouldn’t take him in R2 even if his upside intrigues me. Williams is just a solid DT. Nothing really flashy. He has a great swim move. He’s good versus the run. Listening to him speak, he’s knowledgeable and seems to understand the technicalities at his position. But at his age he might be a one contract guy. At 29/30 is he going to generate a sweet new deal? I guess it depends. And given he’s more solid vs flashy, he could drop a little. Particularly in a deep DT class.
I have heard that said about his lower body strength. But his ass and thighs look gynormous. Though he played in a minor conference and remains very raw, his game held up vs upper echelon talent at the Senior Bowl. I was amazed how often he was double teamed. Although I am just an armchair talent evaluator, BW seems like a guy who with a little bit of technique would over power guards one on one. And that is what we are looking for: another disruptive gap clogger/pocket pusher on 1st and 2nd downs to pair with Brandon Mebane, or at least get into the rotation and hold up while he develops. If Mebane could just get a little quality help pushing that pocket, it would make a huge difference. Uncomfortable QB’s would either hurry their throws, which is fatal vs. our secondary. Or they would continue to drop back, which is fatal vs. our outside pass rush. I think Brandon Williams is a potential target for PC/JS.
Here is some tape of Brandon Williams at the Senior Bowl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJeUILylZQ
Brandon Williams is an oddball pass rusher while Sly Williams is more of an all-around talent. Brandon has some holes in his game, Sly doesn’t. Brandon Williams has pretty good upside though- he moves in short areas quickly for his size and has a ton of arm strength.
I can’t remember if it was Brandon Williams or not, but during one game I saw him just get demolished by a guard. There was one play where he was almost very literally on ice skates, getting pushed around from hashmark to hashmark. Again, not entirely sure about that but I don’t think he is an NFL-ready player. So un-NFL ready that I would not select him in round 2.
Different Guy…BW Can Be Pushed Of Balance AndFall To The Turf Occasionally. But Other Humans Cannot Just Push Him Down The Football Field As If He’s On Skates. He Is One Of The Strongest Players In The Draft (38 Reps @ 225)!
Please specify who the different guy was please. I don’t follow your logic of how superior upper body strength equates to having a strong anchor. BW may be able to BP like nobody else, but his well documented inferior lower body strength means he is susceptible to being pushed around. Strength means nothing if you can’t leverage it against something.
Why don’t you specify someone? I started the thread because I like Brandon Williams as a possibility and wanted some opinions from other members of the community. There was some quality discussion and feedback going on when suddenly someone posted that some guy, maybe BW, is on film being pushed all over the field as if on ice skates. So based on that “maybe”, he is not a good 2nd round prospect. So I was actually referring to that hasty post and my response was a bit terse for obvious reasons. Perhaps I should have said, “In my opinion, it was probably a different guy..”. The source of my “logic” is observation. I have watched all the film I can find on BW and I have never seen him pushed all over as if on skates. I have seen him get pushed off balance and fall to the turf… Sometimes with texting and posting, I cut through all the extra BS without fluff or pleasantries, particularly in response to a hasty dismissal that is not supported with facts or at least articulated opinions based on some observations.
I have a different conclusion (pending) regarding BW’s “well documented inferior lower body strength means he is susceptible to being pushed around.” He has gynormous legs and ass. He is a gym rat that benches 500+ pounds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_kc-4omcNQ If he struggles to anchor, I think it is a technique/footwork issue more than an inferior leg strength issue. At times he looked ridiculously powerful in the combine drills vs best offensive linemen prospects in the country. Time will tell…
Hey guys. Sorry for the confusion.
The player I was thinking of was actually TJ Barnes, not BW. I’ll paste the link below. The most obvious “DT on skates” moment is at 2:07, but there are other times throughout the tape when he gets pushed around as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvq-kG-RzzM
Hopefully this clears everything up. I don’t want to hate on BW unnecessarily.
If Kawann Short is available 4 or 5 spots before Seattle’s pick, I would hope that they would package a couple of draft picks to move up and get him. I can’t see a team as loaded with talent as Seattle keeping 8 or 10 picks. These will be players who Pete Carroll has already said will have a hard time making the roster. This is the perfect year to move up in the 2nd & 3rd rounds
I second a move up like that in RD2.
DT Kawaan Short in *RD 2
LB Zaviar Gooden in *RD 3
WR Da’Rick Rogers or Mark Harrison *RD 4
I third moving up in round 2. Unless you dont care and will take BPA (Swopes).
Your mocks with trades are very intriguing and really have me thinking Rob.
Do you, or anyone else, care to speculate on the possibility of JSPC not liking any particular player available at 56 enough to make the selection, and instead trading down in exchange for some more picks deeper in the draft?
I’m thinking that, with the exception of perhaps less than a handful of possible prospects, JSPC see this draft as better suited to building depth at several positions rather than trying to find a single player who could possibly make an impact in his rookie season.
I could definitely see them moving down. I think the situation you’re talking about was evident in 2011, when they clearly felt they could move down and get a player later on that they liked (Moffitt) and yet there was nobody they just had to have at the end of round two. I will say though that I think the options at #56 this year will be better than the options we saw two years ago. And I suspect there will be 2-3 guys they’ll like enough to maybe stay put.
I could see Seattle moving around, definitely. I think in particular, they are probably interested in trades that net them 2014 draft picks to help make up for their loss of their 2014 third rounder.
I wouldn’t count out a move up if it’s low cost, but given Seattle’s lack of glaring needs, I’m guessing they’ll stay put unless someone they rate as a top 15 talent tumbles into the mid-2nd round.
I’m looking for Seattle to possibly parlay their 2nd round pick for a first round pick next year. There’s a lot more “wow” talent coming out of that draft.
I’m sure they’d love that, but it will be a challenge to drum up that kind of price tag for a #56 pick.
More realistically, we’d get someone’s second round and a conditional mid round pick. Depending on how that 2nd round pick pans out, our conditional pick could be anywhere from a 4-7
I’d be in favor of trading for pick(s) in 2014.
Any chance that maybe we could be in the same situation as 49ers, not in the sense of too many draft picks, but not enough rookies making our roster? Maybe the ‘Hawks might trade up?
They’ve won in the regular season, they’ve clearly won FA, maybe they win the draft too by trading up and grabbing a true difference maker.
Very possible.
Interesting timing on these comments. We’re thinking about the same thing, if not necessarily in the same way.
I think we already ‘traded up’ when we used three picks to acquire Percy Harvin. The 7th round picks are not going to move us up far and Schneider always wishes he had more picks not less.
Plus the conditional 7th round picks (two of them) cannot be used for trade. Please correct if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that is accurate.
You are correct sir.
Maybe. Keep in mind though that 7 of our 10 picks come in rounds 5-7. If we move up, that means almost our entire draft this year will be late rounders.
Further, the rounds 2-4 range will be loaded this year. We should part with those picks as a last resort, IMO.
I’m afraid that there is as much chance of Sylvester Williams being available at #56 as there was of Sharrif Floyd being available at #25. Rob teased us with that early on and we watched the tape and saw what the scouts had already seen, and now he is top 10. About as much chance of Sylvester being there R2 as of the Seahawks landing Percy Harvin, Clif Avril and Michael Bennett in the free agency off-season.
Agreed. Our best bet is to move up to top of second if we want a good DT.
I wonder how many DTs we’ll see go in the top 55? Lotulelei, Floyd, Richardson, Jones, Williams, Williams, Williams, Jenkins, Hankins, Jenkins… some of those names will be there at #56. I want no part of Hankins and I don’t think Jesse Williams makes any sense for us even I think he’s great, but I think we’ll probably see a quality DT slide pretty far into the 2nd, since only so many teams need a DT and there are a ton of great alternative picks at other positions.
I think Brandon Williams is probably the frontrunner at #56 right now, but I wouldn’t rule out sexier options falling to us. I raved about Lavonte David last year, almost everyone did. I was ticked when Seattle took Wagner over him. He should have gone 1st round (and his rookie year proved it), but he fell all the way to #58. Jerel Worthy was a DT I loved and thought deserved to be a late 1st, and he was snatched up by the Packers at #51. Golden Tate had a 1st round grade for many, and we got him at #60. You can’t really predict who the faller will be, but I see a lot of congestion at DT and I think we’ll see some value there. It might not be Sly Williams, but I think he’s the one Seattle hopes for the most.
Plus, more teams are running the 3-4, which influences which particular DT a team would want (i.e., Floyd over Sly).
Kip or Rob: If both Sly and John Jenkins are there at #56 who do the Seahawks take and why?
I suspect Williams. Better pass rusher, I’d also argue better against the run. Jenkins moves well for his size but he doesn’t make the most of it.
Rob,
Figured I would give you a heads up about the connecting link for the shop. I’ve contacted NFL.com and they are going to email or call me in the next 24-48 hours regarding purchases made through the link on your website. Your link takes us to the new Harvin jerseys, but when you navigate from that page, all of the extra info in the URL (that I am assuming links the purchase to your site) disappears. I’m going to be purchasing their new Centurylink Field panorama photo for my man-cave, and I want to make sure you benefit from it.
For reference, here is a link to the panorama since it is really the only one I can find for sale anywhere on the web: http://www.nflshop.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10927434&clickid=body_rv_txt
On another note, I contacted the Hawks official website about their lack of a current panorama with updated colors/logo. The response was disappointing and short: “Unfortunately I am not sure if we will be carrying any panorama photos at this time.” You’d think that the guy would have tried a little harder to figure out when it might be they would have some for sale. Christ, don’t they want my money?
Bobby – really appreciate the time you’ve taken to try and help this site. I sincerely mean that. I cannot thank you enough.
Rob, the Bears dont have a 3rd round pick because of the Marshall trade.
With the acquisition of Bennett we now have an abundance of guys to fill the 3-Tech role. McDonald, Scruggs, Bennett and Howard all fit the part. What we lack on the line is another run stuffer. Branch was good at that. Stopping the run is the first priority. Without Branch we need a big body to help out on first and second downs. I like John Jenkins for this role if we decide to go defense in round 2. Jenkins had 50 tackles at Georgia last year. He is a monster of a man. At 6-4, 350 ‘he is bigger, stronger and quicker than the other linemen on the field’. My concern with the defense is the way Atlanta ran on us in the playoffs. We fixed the pass rush. Now it is time to address the run defense.
I think you make a good point, and it’s one we tend to forget as we focus on the 3 tech spot. When the Hawks defense didn’t play well last year, it was almost always in the form of getting gashed by the run (with the possible exception of giving up a 1st down on about 25 different third and longs in the Rams game).
If players like Sly Williams, Short, Ertz, , K. Greene etc. are off the board by the time we pick at 56 (which is highly likely) I wouldn’t be at all suprised, or particularly disappointed if we went for a Jenkins, Jesse Williams, or Jonathon Hankins. Having a big bodied run plugger (in addition to or in place of Branch) could be one of the most important upgrades for the Seahawks defense next season, particularly in division games.
I would look at Josh Boyd much later in the draft too. Also played in the SEC @ Miss St. More active at the line of scrimmage, both hands and feet than Jenkins. Only has 32 inch arms, but really solid measurable’s everywhere else. Quick twitch athlete @ 6’3 310lbs. Did a nice job in the Senior Bowl.
I’m coming around to this same view (or at least what I believe you are saying). I would love to get a top drawer DT who can push the pocket, but I’m not seeing who that since we aren’t getting Sheldon Richardson or Sharif Floyd. If that’s right and the Hawks are left drafting a player to replace Alan Branch, I am not sure second round is good value. Yes, Sly Williams is a better player than Boyd, but by how much? The point goes even more so for Jenkins or Jesse Williams, I think. (I put Hankins in a different category because he appears to have the tools to be a pocket collapser if he can put them to use; I see him as having some of the highest bust potential, but also greater ceiling if it clicks.)
Maybe I’m under-appreciating Branch, but running stuffing DT seems to be the strength of the depth of the draft. Of course, if that’s the direction the Hawks end up going, I’m hoping that Branch realizes soon enough that he has no market and takes a bargain contract with Seattle. The cap savings between a second round pick and a vet minimum deal is not worth the risk.
I really like Boyd. I think he can develop into a solid pass rush DT with average run stop skills. Would be a great 5th or 6th round option.
I really like the trades too.
I think it’s more likely that Khaseem Greene (slow 40 time) is there at #56 over Sly Williams. I think there’s a possibility that Williams is there in THIS draft with 100 player talked about as possible 2nd round picks – but not likely. I can’t see so few DT’s taken with such a strong class (I do think that IS realistic that so many DB could get taken early). With needs at DT, WLB, and Nickel CB we might just wait and draft where the value is on the board, which I think in this case would be WR, TE, or OT and draft need positions a little later. When other teams ZIG we ZAG. Although, in this draft I bet there will be someone at #56 that will all be shocked by (maybe Zach Ertz, Arthur Brown, Jarvis Jones) – and Pete and John will be ready to take advantage of where ever the value is.
Yeah but if a guy who is supposed to be drafted in round 1 falls all the way to #56, don’t you think there’s a big red flag about that player that’s caused him to fall that far? I think that probably would be the case, barring some massive oversight by 20+ teams. Not likely.
You could use that same logic to bash the Aaron Rodgers pick.
Great players slide for many reasons, often because a long string of teams aren’t looking at their position on their draft board.
This is essentially the most loaded rounds 2-4 I’ve ever seen, so you can expect some surprises at #56. Sly Williams is just a stab in the dark- but I guarantee you there will be at least a few exciting options there.
The quarterbacks illustrate this for me. There is a limited pool of teams that are likely to draft a QB in the first three rounds. There are so many promising, but flawed, prospects that it’s almost like musical chairs. If you are Cleveland and don’t have a high conviction on Glennon, or believe that other teams favor Scott or Nassib or Wilson or Jones, I wonder if you don’t sit on the pick for a round or two and see who drops. Some teams are likely to feel strongly about a particular guy and a system fit, but from the outside, I see 10 guys who have been discussed, at different times by different sources, as being worthy of a round three grade or higher. But with the exception of Smith and Barkley, I don’t see much expectation that they’ll step in and play next year. Thus, if you are looking at taking a developmental guy, you might be able to wait and get a good prospect in the fourth round. Tyler Bray, for example. If I am Cleveland, looking for someone with a skill set something like Weeden, I might prefer to roll the dice with Bray in the fourth than with Glennon in the second. Or, more to the point of my comment, wait to see which of the two falls, and sort it out that way.
Everyone’s board is different. That’s why watching the draft unfold is so much fun – because you can see how each teamed valued different players compared to their need and the general consensus.
After seeing Pete & John draft for three years I’m pretty sure they don’t care about what everyone thinks.
Rob,—or–anyone for that matter,
Off topic but draft related. Has anyone else thought the exodus/slash general ambivalence to resigning quote/unquote key free agents by the Ravens is actually the smartest thing we are witnessing in football right now? If the 49ers’ are going to be awarded a 4th round (and more) compensatory picks this year for “losing,” players who really didn’t contribute then what will the Ravens get next year in comp picks for losing the Krugers/Ellerbes/Reeds…a couple 2nd rounders, maybe a few 3’s with some fours….all at the time when they pay Joe Flacco a boat ton of money, and can go ahead and restock via the draft and sign players on rookie contracts, that are team-cap friendly under the new CBA.
Don’t know if this thought process is entirely true, though it does seem that a scenario like that may work out for certain teams…..
Interesting perspective, Peter. Baltimore is very well run, so you may be onto the strategy behind the tear down. It will be interesting to see where their cap number ends up – they have approximately $7 million in dead money tied up in Lewis, Boldin, Cunniff and Birk. Maybe they want to clear the dead contracts once and for all. And perhaps position themselves for a rollover as well. They managed to roll a $1 million or so over while winning the Super Bowl.
I don’t know how much the FA compensation plays into it, but the Ravens are demonstrating that they won’t pay retail rate for average talent. Better to replace the production through the draft at wholesale prices. Particularly with this year’s draft’s depth, smart teams are focused on reducing the salary hit for players who are “just a guy.” It’s where I think the Colts have it exactly run – collecting high priced mediocrities in a vain attempt to marginally upgrade. The Dolphins too to a lesser extent, although they’ve at least brought in better players.
The best compensation pick a team can receive is a 3rd rounder. No team may receive more than four compensation picks no matter how many good players they lose. Of the 32 compensation picks awarded this year, half were in round 7.
Rock,
thanks for the heads up on the volume and placement of picks. Didn’t know that. That said, I still think the Ravens would enjoy the benefits of up to four extra picks between rounds 3-7, and playing those players an average of 500k a year for 3-5 years makes more sense then the old Ed Reed 4 million per/year at age 34…
I agree that it is smart, but not for that reason. They’re letting go of older and overpaid players. Reed, Pollard, and Boldin have lost a step, and they’ve dealt with injuries in recent years. Kruger was massively overpaid and not even a consistent starter. Same for Ellerbe. Cary Williams just stinks. It might sting this year just because it’s going to be nearly impossible to replace that many players, but they have a system and it works. A lot of those guys they acquired for little cost, and the smart money says they can do it again.
absolutely about restocking and the sting of having perhaps a down year by letting go of talent, this year for me was the first time I looked the loss of free agents as a “what if,” in regards to a calculated risk bearing com picks later. I was more speculating as to whether certain teams actually think along this: If we go into a draft with 7 picks, and we let these guys walk, we can add up to 4 picks (that said people claim to not know how the comp system works, but I’m assuming that Newsome has a good clue that “losing,” reed et al, and them playing well-ish for their new teams will net them at least something, almost like a trade) then we can really roll the dice in the NEXT draft to reload. Again I have no clues that make that seem realistic, other then a hunch and Joe Flacco’s brutal contract the next year requiring CHEAP talent on the Ravens.
Jarvis Jones runs a 4.85 40 at his pro day.
Ouch.
yeah. that’s remarkable. Is he going to be one of those great college players who washes out, or one of those guys who plays fast? hard to know.
I might be late to this party, but I just read Tony McDaniel is supposed to meet with SEA today. Could this be the answer to the Alan Branch question?
I don’t think it’s THE answer. But it’s part of it.
1) The Seahawks aren’t going to rely completely on the draft for their DT needs. They need a free agent DT as a fallback in case the DT they draft, for one reason or another, is not NFL ready in season one.
2) The Seahawks may be looking for an option to drive down Alan Branch’s value even more. The McDaniel visit will make teams wonder if Alan Branch has any appeal given the Hawks seem to have almost no interest in signing him right away.
3) Tony McDaniel is historically a role player on defense and, if he makes the squad, could be a contributor on early downs, I imagine.
I’m becoming less and less convinced that Seattle is interested or likes the DT class this year for the following reasons:
1. Reading the tea leaves
In 2010, 2011 and 2012, we pretty clearly stated our needs and attacked them in the draft and via other means. This year, the team is pretty balanced and pretty deficit free across the roster.
I’m going to operate under the assumption that Pete was being candid when he talked about upgrading the interior pass rush. He’s been candid about these things before. And it doesn’t take a genius to see that it was the one conspicuously missing element on the team.
So if that were the case, then it defies reason that we would have made the Harvin deal. This is admittedly a draft weak in 3 tech pass rushers. If we presume that Seattle is going to go DT with it’s first pick, then we’d have to assume that we loved almost all of the tier 2 prospects equally. Probably as many as half or more of those prospects will be gone by #56, so I think trading that #1 pick away tips their hand a bit.
I don’t believe that Pete/John love these tier 2 guys. I’m sure they like *some* of them. If they loved one or even two of them, then it doesn’t follow that they’d risk not being able to get them.
I believe that the UFA moves we’ve made has also borne that out. We’ve pursued and signed multiple veterans to shore up this position. I’d say that is a strong indicator that they aren’t looking at an early draft pick to compete and play from day one. Those moves and the contract lengths scream ‘bridge veterans’ to me.
2. These guys often don’t make sense
We here made this mistake some last year. Trying to apply conventional reason to what Pete/John look for in their picks. It led to Rob mocking Upshaw to us on repeated occasions. And the reasoning at the time made conventional sense.
I don’t know if Sly Williams is this years Upshaw or not. I would be surprised if any other player has been mocked to us here as frequently as he has. I do think that conventional reasoning tends to take root in our psyche and it can be difficult to shake that. This year it’s even harder to make a consistent case. We don’t have holes like we did last year or the years before that. There is definitely a stronger possibility that even the position (or even side of the ball) we draft first is undetermined.
I’d put it out there, that if Pete and John were of the opinion that they weren’t going to go DT early this year, then they would act pretty much exactly the way they have — trading away our 1st round pick for something other than a DT and picking up hedge veterans to hold down the fort for a year. I just get the strong feeling that we aren’t going DT in day 2. There isn’t a guy in the 2nd tier that we feel good enough about that we would have ensured we got them at #25. And the pass rush 3 tech function is so specialized and rare that I have a hard time thinking they feel good about all of these prospects in that regard.
Well put, as always Attyla.
With respect, I would add one more piece of evidence: as a community, we don’t really love the pocket collapsing potential of the 3-tech draft class either. Don’t get me wrong, there are some good players. But after Richardson and Floyd, there is no one I feel confident would improve our interior pressure. There are a couple of players, like Short and Williams, you can hope would improve the push from the interior of the line.
As Rob and others have noted, projecting defensive tackles is very hard. I heard on the Mayock/Kiper podcast this week that high round DT picks (through round three) have the highest washout rate of any position.
Put differently, Branch is a good football player; so the bar is pretty high for run-stuffing DT. Unless we have a pretty high degree of confidence that we are going to improve the pass rush with a particular player, we might just as well take our shot on one or more DTs in the fourth or fifth as the second. Drafting someone in the second round just to find a run stuffer isn’t good value. The price of useful veteran defensive linemen is is not that high this year and, I’m guessing, is coming down further quickly.
Jarvis Jones had a pretty atrocious pro day, reportedly running in the 4.9-5.0(!!) range in the 40. This might be a bigger deal than his spinal stenosis issue. NFL.com has video and Mayock analysis. Got to say he looks pretty slow and might get lucky to be a top 15 pick.
I think it makes him slide a little bit but not by much. His tape is just too good; obviously an elite pass rusher.
It does make you question if either A) He’s got some back issues going on with the stenosis, rendering him unable to work out or B) He lacks work ethic. Either of those would be big drawbacks; it’s really hard to say, for me.
Building a team via the draft.
That was motto of this FO and it worked pretty well.
Looking at this team right now I can’t see any urgent hole to fill other then resigning Branch or his replacement. Everything they did so far indicates they will not want to draft a rookie for it but sign a veteran.
So, what are we looking for in the draft other then the best player available etc ?
I don’t buy the best value or best man plan. Why ? cause that’s not a plan. That’s just saying – we have no plan so we take whatever is the best left on the plate. The past 3 years with JS made me believe they always have A PLAN.
If we are not drafting to upgrade the current team – what are we drafting for ? what is that plan ?
I don’t know what is their plan but i know what my plan would be. We are done building this team, it’s young, it’s good, it’s ready to take on the field and go for it. It’s time to build the 2014-2015 teams from the draft.
We all know the cap issue’s we’ll be facing. It’s very possible that some of the great players we have now on high cap contracts will no be part of those future teams. Let’s draft for possible replacements. Guys that can be the next man up if case we have to let someone go. I.E. – not looking for improvement on the current roster but for great backups to train to replace our strong spots.
Examples –
Get Kelce as a Miller replacement. He is a nasty blocker that will give us what Miller gave if we need to let Miller go.
Get Swope as a Tate/Rice replacement. He’s tall and fast enough and we can’t give Tate a nice contract next year and keep Rice and Harvin’s contracts going.
Get Margus Hunt to be there when Bennett leaves and if Clem doesn’t make it back at prime form.
The names are just examples – the principle is valid. Draft the guys we’ll want to step in in 2014-2015 when the inevitable cap pressure comes. They may even be helpful this year (injuries etc.) but they will be priceless to have next year.
So, who do you like to have on the 2014 seahawks ?
Agree with your sentiment, but I have to say I’m glad to see Margus Hunt is not in the first two rounds of this mock. He is not ready to play NFL football, needs time to develop, and should be a mid round selection who will get a few snaps here and there, but not be counted on for much. He has too much upside to stash on the practice squad, so you have to sacrifice a roster spot for him, but he’d probably be bottom of the depth chart on D-line in year one and not even dress for most games.