This is the ultimate ‘draft game’ for Seahawks fans. Two SEC teams loaded with talent at positional needs for Seattle.
A lot of the more intriguing names are on Georgia’s roster.
Lorenzo Carter is an extremely interesting option for Seattle. He’s about 6-5 and 240lbs and ideally suited to play LEO/SAM like Bruce Irvin. The Notre Dame-Georgia game was a great insight into his potential.
At the 2013 Nike SPARQ Combine, Carter had the following workout:
Height: 6-5
Weight: 234lbs
Forty: 4.63
Short shuttle: 4.32
Powerball: 41.5
Vertical: 40 inches
SPARQ: 129.75
That was the second best SPARQ score among front seven defenders and even topped Solomon Thomas (121.77).
It’s a different workout to Irvin. He’s not as quick — Bruce ran a 4.50 forty at his combine despite carrying an extra 11lbs. He also had a 4.03 short shuttle. Carter isn’t anywhere near as quick or agile as that. He is, however, potentially more explosive. If he repeats his 40-inch vertical that would considerably top Irvin’s 33.5-inch attempt.
His vertical won’t be a surprise to anyone who watched the Rose Bowl:
And the celebration began with this blocked field goal by Lorenzo Carter. #GoDawgs pic.twitter.com/pE6EX3JQ8b
— Chuck Kittrell (@ChuckKittrell) January 3, 2018
There’s a reason Irvin was the #15 overall pick. His incredible production at West Virginia matched with his unique physicality and speed warranted a high selection. Carter won’t go as early. While Irvin was getting double digit sacks at WVU, Carter had just 7.5 TFL’s in 2017. However, he has a physical profile that could interest Seattle. He’s a first or second round possibility.
Running backs Nick Chubb and Sony Michel had a field day against Oklahoma’s typical Big-12 defense. Both players were bottled up in a big loss on the road to Auburn during the regular season. This is a big test to see if they can deliver against the toughest front seven in college football.
Chubb has the potential to go in round one depending on medical checks at the combine. He was one of the most explosive players to ever test at the SPARQ combines:
Height: 5-11
Weight: 217lbs
Forty: 4.47
Short shuttle: 4.12
Powerball: 43
Vertical: 41 inches
SPARQ: 143.91
If he matches that in Indianapolis in March, he has every chance to not just be a first round pick but also crack the top-20.
He compares favourably to Jonathan Stewart. Chubb is around 5-11, 228lbs. Stewart at his combine was 5-11 and 235lbs. He ran a 4.48, managed a 36.5 inch vertical, a 10-8 broad and a 4.53 short shuttle. Chubb is capable of topping some of these numbers.
Stewart was the #13 pick in 2008. This is why it’s entirely possible Chubb cracks the top-20.
We know what he is — a physical north-south runner capable of getting the tough yards. If he finds a crease he can accelerate and break off big gains. He goes from 0-60 quickly for his size. His footwork can be choppy when he has to stop-start but he’s also capable of sticking his foot in the ground and making a decisive cut.
It’ll be a huge statement if he can make big gains against this loaded Alabama defense. Space will be at a premium. It’ll be an opportunity to show he can create when the odds are stacked against him.
You can imagine the Seahawks showing interest in a back with Chubb’s explosive quality and running style. The combine will determine whether he’s a late first or second round pick or a much earlier selection.
Michel is a better pass catching, multi-dimensional back but it’s worth noting he’s also around 220lbs so he can run up the middle too. We’ll see how Georgia mix him in with Chubb. This might be a game for Michel. Chubb is going to see a lot of extra bodies at the LOS (Georgia’s quarterback is a true freshman). Getting the ball to Michel in space is key. He’s also a potential second round pick.
Possibly my favourite prospect on the Georgia team is left tackle Isaiah Wynn. You won’t see a more in-control blocker, whether it’s playing the pass or run. He is a fantastic offensive lineman. Get excited about this guy.
He just does everything to a high standard. His kick-step is fluid and he sets easily. He never overextends and delivers a timely punch with accurate hand-use to stymie edge rushers. In the running game he perfectly engages contact then turns opponents to open lanes. He’s adept at pulling to the outside and he progresses nicely to the second level to lock onto linebackers. There are examples where he drives defensive linemen 5-6 yards beyond the LOS (check out his Missouri tape for examples of this).
Wynn is 6-2 and 300lbs so his future is likely at guard. We know the Seahawks like versatile O-liners and appreciate tackle experience. Wynn, to me, has an opportunity to be one of the most consistent and useful players from this draft class. He isn’t Quenton Nelson overwhelming people with power and size. He doesn’t play with Garett Bolles’ nasty edge. He is, however, extremely difficult to get the better of. This will be a great test against Alabama’s front seven. He has every opportunity to go in the first round and if he’s available in the second — you run to the podium. No question. As a left guard option to compliment and finalise Seattle’s O-line, Wynn would be a terrific pickup. They’d have to be creative to make it happen with only the #18 pick in the first three rounds. Wherever Wynn ends up, he’s going to make that team very, very happy.
Roquan Smith is also an exciting talent. He’s smaller than ideal (around 6-1 and 225) but plays with such quickness, physicality and delivers a hammer blow when he locks on to the ball carrier. He delivered two stunning hits in the Rose Bowl denying a touchdown on one play and a key first down on the other.
His best fit is likely at the MIKE or WILL at the next level. Seattle has Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright, so Smith is an unlikely first round target. At the moment a lot of people believe Smith goes in the top-20. That’s highly possible and I’ve mocked that myself. However, consider this. His size will rule him out of some schemes and Jarrad Davis lasted to pick #21 a year ago. For me, Davis was a better player and a greater athlete too. Smith can go earlier — but it’s possible he’ll be seen as more of a mid or late first type.
Receiver Javon Wims is another Georgia talent to focus on. He became the teams go-to receiver during the season, saving his only college production for his Senior year. He’s 6-4 and 215lbs and could provide the kind of dynamic big outside target the Seahawks have lacked over the years.
The back-shoulder fade has been his best friend but he’s also developed into a key red-zone threat and he does well high-pointing the football. He sometimes produces a nice check down option settling over the middle and he can separate on the shorter routes. He’s at his best, however, working the red line to make big plays.
It’s difficult to project what his stock could be. He’s a one-year wonder and it’s unclear what his physical profile is. Hopefully he gets a combine invite. A safe projection is middle rounds at this stage.
Alabama is equally rich in talent but it’s hard to see how they fit in Seattle. Minkah Fitzpatrick is a bit overrated. You’ll see him touted as a top-10 pick in a lot of mock drafts. His value is probably in the 10-20 range. Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix lasted until pick #21. Earl Thomas lasted to pick #14. Keanu Neal was the #17 pick. All three, in my opinion, are better than Fitzpatrick.
He’s not an outstanding athlete. He also worked out at the 2013 Nike SPARQ combine. Here’s how he performed:
Height: 6-0
Weight: 183lbs
Forty: 4.67
Short shuttle: 4.05
Powerball: 34
Vertical: 37 inches
SPARQ: 106.26
The forty time stands out. That’s slower than Lorenzo Carter despite a 51lbs weight difference. There’s nothing wrong with his vertical or short shuttle. He hasn’t got an amazing physical profile though — he’ll want to do better at the combine.
Fitzpatrick plays in a lot of different positions. His coverage in the short game (red zone) is impressive but he’s not a cornerback at the next level and he’s not a tone-setting big tackler either. It’s hard to think he’ll end up on Seattle’s radar.
His safety partner Ronnie Harrison is quite different. He is a big hitter — just ask Kerryon Johnson. Harrison absolutely hammered Johnson in the Iron Bowl, eventually forcing him out of the game. He clearly wasn’t 100% in the SEC Championship as a consequence. Without that hit — this game could easily be Alabama vs Auburn.
Harrison is the type of player you can imagine contributing to a defense consistently. He won’t be the big star. On a team with a good front seven and some coverage talent, he’d be a nice compliment. His stock is possibly late first or second round.
Another player that is talented and will go early is linebacker Rashaan Evans. He is fantastic to watch — a relentless, physical defender who makes every hit count. He doesn’t just bring down the quarterback or running back — he brings the pain. Working out what is his best position will be the tough part.
For Alabama he moves round, sometimes playing inside or working the edge. He’ll blitz and rush the passer. At 6-2 and 232lbs his future at the next level might be WILL or MIKE. He doesn’t really have the length to be a LEO. The combine will be important to determine how early he goes. First round is a distinct possibility. He has good character too. Ultimately though he looks like the type of player you admire throughout the process but doesn’t land in Seattle. He screams AFC North, probably Baltimore.
Like Georgia, there are two high profile running backs to monitor. One is the most underrated player eligible for 2018. One is the most overrated.
Bo Scarborough has not lived up to the hype. There was hope he would be the next Derrick Henry. It hasn’t materialised. At his very best (see: 2016 playoffs) he is a scary opponent. He took over the game against Washington a year ago with his incredible combination of size and speed. Yet this year he failed to take the next step. He’s a tease. You want to believe he has the make-up of a big-time talent. Yet whether he’s banged up, injured, playing within himself or just a nice big target to hammer in the running game — Scarborough hasn’t delivered at Alabama. At the moment, it feels like he’ll last into day three.
Damien Harris, however, is a completely different story. Possibly the most complete runner not named Saquon Barkley, Harris has the ideal combination of grit, physicality, speed, explosion, willingness to pass block like his life depends on it, size and character.
His YPC for Alabama absolutely demolishes any former backs from the school including Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson, T.J. Yeldon, Derrick Henry and Kenyan Drake. He’s also not been worked into the ground like some of those runners. Alabama has tried desperately to feature their sophomore quarterback and use a committee at running back. Harris will be fresh for the NFL.
Harris’ SPARQ workout isn’t as good as Chubb’s but it’s not a million miles off:
Height: 5-10
Weight: 210lbs
40-yard: 4.48
Short shuttle: 4.00
Vertical: 38 inches
SPARQ: 126.93
I think he’s worth a first round pick. If you get him in the early second it’s an absolute steal. It’s worth noting however that there’s some feeling he might return to Alabama. Winning a National Championship might influence his decision, especially if he has a big game. If they don’t win, or if Harris is motivated by a possible Heisman campaign in 2018, he might stay in school.
Receiver Calvin Ridley isn’t big (6-1, 190lbs) and he isn’t an athletic freak. He’s Mr.Consistent. He’s being graded as a top-15 pick by some, I think his stock is more modest. In a class without a lot of star quality at receiver he could go earlier than he otherwise would. The Seahawks are unlikely to draft Ridley, it’s safe to assume. His interviews are a bit weird sometimes.
Da’Ron Payne is arguably 2018’s best eligible run stuffer. He is what he is though. He had just one TFL in 2017. Compare that to Tim Settle’s 12.5 TFL’s. His stock is likely in the second or third round range seeing as he’ll mostly be viewed as an early down defender and not a pass rusher.
Cornerback Anthony Averett is a talented coverage defender. He’s likely to be somewhat limited. He hurt himself getting off the bus before the Clemson game. No joke, he tripped on a curb. He played against the Tigers but wasn’t 100%.
There’s every chance this game will contain at least one future Seahawk, if not multiple. One of the running backs, Isaiah Wynn and Lorenzo Carter would certainly cure a lot of ills in Seattle.
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mentioned before but kind of cool to watch a game where you hope a whole bunch of players on either side have a game. thanks for the crazy level of content at this time, Rob…..much appreciated
Thank you for reading 🙂
Now I’m even more excited to watch the game tonight. I’ll be concentrating on all the RB’s, Wynn and Carter primarily. But I’ve liked Ronnie Harrison for awhile now and can’t wait to watch him as well. Good stuff Rob.
Thanks
Some tough decisions ahead. If only we were in Cleveland’s position, with 5 draft picks in the first and second rounds. Pete could totally rebuild the team with that much draft capital. Which is something to think about when they are making these free agent trades for one year. The Seahawks are already paying them top dollar, do they really need to trade away draft picks too? It bit them in the butt this year.
It did bite us but…..We were all hoping to get Dwayne Brown at the time and S. Richardson was just as welcomed at the time. We couldn’t possibly have seen all these injuries beforehand. If we were as healthy as were hoping we would’ve had a real shot this year.
I wanted Brown and Richardson too, I had dreams of another superbowl run. Though we couldn’t have foreseen the injuries, the fact that the Seahawks ended up with both high cap and two less draft picks is troubling. After all, this is the man that wanted to accumulate draft picks, and often moved back to do it. Now the Seahawks are in draft survival mode = move back and hunker down, hoping no other team picks you off.
I just think they need to pursue a different draft/trade strategy moving forward. And it looks like they are prepared to do that.
As much as I love the playoffs I wish we could just fast forward to about the beginning of March, combine and free agency. I just cant wait.
Some of it is due to the McDowell pick. PC said in one of the season ending interviews they went and got Sheldon after McDowell hurt himself.
Right – who could have predicted McDowell would have an ATV accident.
Then there was the Fant injury that brought Brown in.
Devils advocate: McDowell’s passion and dedication to the game was questioned. His body language did not scream Seahawk at all. Being stupid enough to ride an ATV (banned in most contracts) a few weeks before training camp is the type of thing someone not dedicated to football would do.
You think Baldwin or Sherm or ET would be out joy riding on ATVs right before training camp?
So the accident could not be predicted, but the poor attitude could.
All true. But the team lets them be who they are. There was video of Coyle taking Bobby and KJ sky diving, hunting and Skiing. Jimmy flies planes. Mike B paddles canoes off of Hawaii. All these including ATV-ing you would think to come back safely in most cases. Just a shitty situation for him and the team.
True.
Did we ever find out if he violated his contract?
Great write up Rob, so much talent on both sides. Any take on the latest rumors of Seattle’s interest of bringing back Gus Bradley? I’d imagine that would mean Richard would be out as DC, or he’d be assistant HC (meaning Cable’s out) and next in line to take over for Pete in the near future
I’d be happy for Gus to return. Worth remembering that Dan Quinn had Bennett and Avril, Gus had just Chris Clemons. He still had Seattle ranked as the top defense in 2011.
The Chargers were #3 in scoring defense this year and took a major step forward. So I’d happily welcome him back in any capacity.
I would assume that means Richard and probably Cable would be out.
I don’t see Richard as an exceptional Dc at this point, and losing Cable will maybe allow Bevel to have normal control over the offense. And it would finally give everyone a chance to get their wish and see if Cable was part of the problem.
Hard to project what will happen at the moment. Lot of whispers but little concrete info.
I do not recall this amount of whispers about the coaching staff in previous years. Lots of complaints from fans, but very little from “insiders”. This year is different.
I would be shocked if Cable, Bevel and Richard are all back. I think at least one is gone, maybe 2. I would be shocked if all 3 are gone and almost as shocked if all 3 are back.
Looking forward to the game to check these players out. Thanks Rob for taking the time away from your family to still keep this going.
My pleasure, thanks for reading
Definitely a lot of talent. If Chubb ad or Michel cant get going its good night Irene. I wonder if Evans could play Kams roll? He is about the same size. Just a thought. I really like watching him as he explodes to the ball carrier.
You said Carter doesnt have the same production as Bruce. I remember Bruce lining up at DE most of the time for West Virginia. The few games I have seen Carter he is mostly playing LB. I admit I havent watched much of Carter, does he line up at DE much?
Bruce had a weird role at WVU — EDGE in 2010 and then as a bizarre three man front in 2011. They do play very different roles (Carter vs Irvin) but the production, I felt, was still noticeably different to highlight.
Georgia’s RG is one to watch for the future imo
Roquan Smith seems to be this years version of Deion Jones. Very similar players.
Agreed. Would love to have Smith on the Hawks.
Speed kills & Smith has + skills all around. I’ve had the thought while watching him on tape, perhaps due
to his size, that he would make a nice “death-backer” or even a conversion to Safety.
Great work Rob. The more players you highlight for the upcoming draft, the more gung-ho I am about trading Earl Thomas. Earl is a fantastic player. I just think that a smart GM/HC will acknowledge that ET is hard to replace but that it’s even harder getting real value out of a monumental 3rd contract. If trading Earl nets us an additional 1st rounder and potentially a 3rd rounder – you have to make that deal.
If we can walk out of this draft with:
Damien Harris or Nick Chubb
Isaiah Wynn
Duke Ejiafor
DJ Moore
Then I think the Seahawks would be back on the right track and could have a very quick return to dominance in the NFC. An OL of Brown-Wynn-Britt-Pocic-Ifedi would genuinely get me excited for 2018. Combine this with a premiere talent like Harris or Chubb and I think Seattle has a legit shot at the #1 seed, even without Earl. Ejiafor gives you another great DE prospect while DJ Moore gives you the closest thing you’ve had to Golden Tate.
I will continue to beat this drum, but I think Seattle needs to bite the bullet this offseason and get younger. Capitalize on the older talent you have to infuse this team with better draft capital.
Your right, you cant replace Earl but it doesnt mean you cant be sucessful in the back end. Im good either way, good if he stays, good if we trade him as long as the return is acceptable. I also agree on 3rd contracts. They usually fail more than they succed.
+1
Thanks for reading Matt. They definitely need to get younger and start to balance out the offensive and defensive spend.
I say get younger, but I can’t buy in on trading Earl or Sherman unless we are blown away by the offer. Shedding Avril, Kam, Lane, and maybe Bennett gets you on the path. See how Earl and Sherman look next year and decide whether you want to try to extend them.
Earl is still a top 5 safety. Paying him like one is not going to be a problem unless you think he declines. Get ready to be reintroduced to the seam route (Seahawk fans may have forgotten about them) if we move Earl, unless we shift to a two high safety look.
Sherman is the type of CB who can age gracefully – he’s athletic, but much of his success comes from technique and football intelligence. Pete was talking about how he seemed to re-commit to his technique this year and I think it showed in his play.
Awesome write up Rob! Thanks for this makes watching more fun..
I have said this before but if we came out of this draft with 3 Georgia players and nothing else I would consider it a good draft that fixes the major issues in 2017(run game, pass pro, lb depth and speed).
Sony Michel RB
Isiah Wynn LG
Lorenzo Carter Lb
I am not sure how the pull it off as all three are likely 2nd round picks but one can dream
Wish we could just draft Georgia or Bama.
Carter could be third, maybe somehow end up with a 2 late seconds and early third or one late second and two early thirds. What order do you think those guys go as they could be close?
Wynn, Michel, Carter maybe?
Thanks Trevor
Before the rose bowl I would love Michel as our back next year with Carson. I am an Auburn fan ever since Bo Jackson. So I saw a lot of Michel and Chubb. This game tonite will show who is the better option for us next year. My hope is Michel.
Who wins?
27-17 Georgia
Alabama 24-7, as much as I like Chubb and Michel. I think Alabama’s front 7 will be to much for Georgia.
I think Bama, Chubb and Michel will get shut down.
Bama probably crushes them imo
Wise men don’t bet against Alabama.
I’d go Alabama, 24-13. Think both teams will find throwing the ball tough sledding, so they’ll try to go heavy on the run. Difference is, Alabama’s got a running QB and Georgia doesn’t.
Great article! Ton of high end talent in this game. Can’t wait!
24-17 Bama
Chris Tarasspo finally gets Barkley up in the mock (to the colts) he has us taking Josh Jackson which isnt happening.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-josh-rosen-to-broncos-colts-grab-saquon-barkley/
Oh man Vita Vaea at 27? He doesn’t get past 18!!
A lot of the mocks have Seattle going cornerback in round one. No idea why. A bit of homework would show how unlikely this is.
I agree, probably look at there roster and only see Griffin and Sherman coming off injury. They dont see that Maxwell, Shead, and Coleman will all probably be back.
Agreed. JJ does look like a player though. Ballhawk if ever there was one
If that’s how 1-17 fall we are taking Nick Chubb.
This is a game where I’d be watching the special teams. Obviously kickers and punters…but morover…who is making the tackles on coversge…who is the best gunner…who is the best snapper/coverage guy…and most of all is there a second dtring guy who excels on special teams?
Browns need a Safety and Leadership. New GM wants to change culture and start winning.
They trade #35 in Rd#2 and #97 in Rd#4 to Hawks for Earl
They would still have picks #1,4,33,61,65
Hawks Day #1 and #2
Trade #18 +97 to Jags (who want to get in front of Buff for QB) for #26 and #60
Trade #90 and
#26 Marcus Davenport (Edge/UTSA)
#35 Sony Michel (RB/Georgia)
#60 Isaiah Wynn or Will Hernandez (LG)
If only
How about 33 and 61. Then I would be good.
who you draft at 18, 33 and 61?
Edmunds…Front 7 player
RB of choice
Wynn or Hernandez…mauling LG
Probably our 3 biggest needs.
That would be awesome!
Why is everyone so interested in trading Earl? What are the chances of those draft picks becoming an all pro and HOF type player? Earl is only 28, free safeties play well into their 30’s.
Because of one pick in the first 3 three rounds.
Im not a fan of getting rid of him, but the lack of draft capital makes worth considering.
I am of the opinion nobody gives up a Rd1 pick for 28 yr old S with 9 seasons worth of games in 8 years
That is same reason I would consider trading him and it is why no team will pay a 1st for him.
Do you remember how many picks Schneider got for the 26th pick last year?
35th pick (2nd Round) – Malik McDowell
95th pick (3rd Round) – Delano Hill
111th pick (4th Round) – Tedric Thompson
187th pick (6th Round) – Mike Tyson
249th pick (7th Round) – Chris Carson
Seattle has the 18th pick in this draft. They should be able to receive even more by trading down, and I’d be shocked if they didn’t do it again.
I like that strategy a lot better than trading a certain future Hall of Fame lynchpin of their defense who is still in his prime.
Again though, the point of trading Earl Thomas will not be just to get a few extra picks. That is not the situation.
Earl Thomas only leaves this team if it’s impossible to extend his contract. Because you know what’s worse than trading Earl Thomas for high picks? Losing him for nothing more than a comp pick in 2020 or 2021.
One, Seattle is in that boat with a number of players the next couple seasons (possibly losing them for nothing more than a comp pick). Players such as: Graham, S. Richardson, P. Richardson, Joeckel, McDougald, etc. this year; Thomas, Sherman, Wright, D. Brown, Clark, Lockett, etc. after next season. Where does Seattle prioritize those guys? These are my best guesses (going off of Carroll’s coachspeak):
Graham – They don’t seem interested in bringing him back.
S. Richardson – There seems to be some interest in keeping him.
P. Richardson – I don’t remember hearing anything about him. I think they’ll let him go.
Joeckel – They don’t seem interested in bringing him back.
McDougald – They seem most interested in keeping him.
Next year’s decisions:
Thomas – I just don’t see them letting him go if he wants to stay.
Sherman – Wait and see how he comes off of injury. If Griffin steps up, it could make Sherman more expendable. It’s tough, but I’d rather see Seattle keep Thomas than Sherman.
Wright – Underrated 4-3 OLB, but he’s a lot more replaceable than a certain future Hall of Fame FS. They should draft his replacement this year.
D. Brown – Wait and see, but probably along the lines of a 2 year extension.
Clark – Extend, 4 years.
Lockett – Extend, 4 years.
I really think a lot of people are way too tied up in what Earl said after the Cowboys game. Now it’s “Maybe the guy doesn’t want to be here anymore”, so maybe Seattle should trade him?
This is what is going to happen. Seattle will talk to Earl and his agent. They’ll ask Earl if he want to play for Seattle going forward. Earl won’t be trying to pull a fast one on Seattle and vice versa. If Earl just doesn’t want to be in Seattle anymore and/or he wants a ridiculous amount of money, then they might shop him.
Just to clarify, it’s not “ridiculous” to make him the highest paid safety in the NFL. He IS the best safety in the NFL and of this decade, and he can easily play at that level for another 4-5 years. I’d much rather give him a 4 year extension in the neighborhood of $14M/year, than give that to Sheldon Richardson. That’s where I’m at.
It doesn’t take 20/20 hindsight to see that the Chancellor extension was a mistake, but they shouldn’t compound that mistake by letting the lynchpin of their defense walk away because of it.
Russell, Bobby, and Earl are the backbone of the team. I don’t hear too many people talking about trading Russell and Bobby, just saying.
With respect 80SLargent, it feels a little bit like you’re ignoring the point some of us are making on Earl. He is not like the other players you’ve listed here. If they lose Graham and only get a fourth round comp pick in return, nobody is going to think that was a botch job. If Paul Richardson leaves or Bradley McDougald, people will just see who comes in to replace them. Losing Earl Thomas on the other hand for nothing more than a comp pick in 2019 or 2020 just won’t cut it. He’s too good a player to lose for a late day two draft pick. And that’s the point. If there’s no chance of getting him contracted for the next few years then the team is left with little choice but to see what they can get for him rather than risk losing him for much less. That’s just the way it is. It’s nothing to do with what he said in Dallas or the lack of draft picks in 2018. It’s purely and simply down to his contract situation.
“This is what is going to happen. Seattle will talk to Earl and his agent. They’ll ask Earl if he want to play for Seattle going forward. Earl won’t be trying to pull a fast one on Seattle and vice versa. If Earl just doesn’t want to be in Seattle anymore and/or he wants a ridiculous amount of money, then they might shop him.”
Mr. Staton, it’s funny, it doesn’t seem that we’re quite as far apart on this as we might think.
If Seattle gets the feeling they won’t be able to extend Thomas, then they try to trade him in a situation that is mutually beneficial. That means a team willing to part with the draft picks, the money that Earl would want, and the not insignificant factor of a team he’d actually want to play for. I get that.
My sticking point is, other than all the hoo-hah over the Dallas post game, what indication do we have that Seattle won’t be able to retain Thomas?
I think what I’m about to post was mentioned by someone else here before.
If we’re going to get stupid about it and Earl really want to go to the Cowboys that badly: Trade Earl Thomas for Zach Martin straight up. Both are in the last years of their contracts. Both are about to get paid. Both are the best at their positions. Both fill a need on the other’s team. Go big or go home, right?
Dallas won’t trade Martin. That’ll be a total non starter.
Again, do you have any reason to believe Dallas wouldn’t trade Martin?
1. He’s in the last year of his contract.
2. He’s about to get paid big money (at least $12-13M/year)
3. They already have two of the highest paid O-linemen at their positions (Tyron Smith and Travis Frederick). Are they going to continue to spend on their O-line, when they need help on defense (specifically their secondary)?
That sure sounds like Seattle and their defense, doesn’t it? Like you’ve pointed out, there’s a huge imbalance of resources skewed to their defense. This is a pretty even swap.
I know people think Thomas is an old man because he’s been in the league so long, but he’s only a year older than Martin.
It’s every bit as likely that Dallas trades Martin and for very similar reasons, as Seattle trading Thomas.
There is absolutely, 100% no way the Dallas cowboys are trading Zack Martin.
I just gave you three reasons why Dallas WOULD trade Zach Martin; “reasons” that parallel your “reasons” for trading Earl Thomas.
Your response: “There is absolutely, 100% no way the Dallas cowboys are trading Zack Martin.”
Then, there is absolutely, 100% no way the Seattle Seahawks are trading Earl Thomas.
See, I can do that too.
The two situations are in no way comparable.
+1
One year on his deal
Retooling of the roster
Cap savings
We have no picks in rounds 2, 3
He’s contemplated retirement as recent as last offseason
You risk getting nothing in return if he leaves
Off topic, did anyone else see Austin Sefarian-Jenkins’ tweet?
“Marquise Lee in a Seahawks UNI next year super underrated talent!”
Huh?? What’s he talking about?
Plus he is going to want fat coin for a 3rd contract. I don’t think anyone really wants to do it but sees the benefit. He will be 29 next season.
I’m pro trading Earl because 3rd contracts of this magnitude hardly ever pay off. There is a very low likelihood that said draft picks end up as good as Earl. That said, if this nets you 2 good players on rookie contracts, then you have to consider it. This team desperately needs an infusion of young, premium cheap talent.
The situation with Earl is quite simple. He’s out of contract in a year. If he wants ridiculous money, the Seahawks risk losing him for practically nothing (at best a late third round comp pick in 2020). If they want to get value for one of the elite players in the league, now is the time to assess the options and see what the trade market offers. If they’re going to be without him in the future anyway, best to see what you can get now so you can try and find a first rounder of similar impact.
If he’s willing to sign a reasonable contract that represents his talent and doesn’t absolutely hammer the Seahawks’ cap, then the likelihood is he stays for the rest of his career.
one other option is they franchise him after next year for 1 year.
That could buy them time to do a long term deal, or keep him for one more good year at a price that will not be higher than he wants anyways.
Having Earl this year did not give them the leagues best defense and I doubt many of the leagues top 10 defenses have a safety comparable to Earl. Maybe Harrison, might be missing someone else. So if they do trade him, they can probably adjust their scheme to the talent they have.
Two things on the franchise tag though…
1. He might holdout (he might do it this year if there’s no new deal).
2. You’re just pushing the inevitable departure down the line. Because an extra year of age and a franchise tag are not going to aid negotiations.
Good points, though I have difficulty seeing a trade.
My understanding is that when they were negotiating his last contract, Earl wanted to be paid among the top defensive players in the league. Players, not safeties.
So I suppose if he insists on being paid like the top defensive lineman ($16m?) you trade him. But it didn’t work out with him to be paid like that when he had the most leverage, I don’t think it will now. I suppose it depends on how committed he and his agent are to pushing for that top money. I’d extend him for up to $13m if I could get out of it in 2-3 years.
I think he’ll want to be the top paid safety.
That’s why a trade can’t be ruled out. If he demands $15m, they aren’t going to go that far. They’d have to look for a deal somewhere. Especially if he’s threatening to hold out to force things through.
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that. But we don’t know what’s going to happen. If they really can’t get a deal done, it’d make sense to part a year early to get proper value.
I’d pay him as the top safety APY if we could get out if it in a couple of years somewhat painlessly. If they can’t get it done it will hurt us in the short term – but turnarounds are quick in the NFL. The silver lining will be that you will be here to break it down for us. Thank you Rob.
Rob, to echo similar sentiments, thank you for all the content you’re putting out, it’s helping make the lack of SEA in the playoffs a little more palatable.
I’ll be interested to watch Harris tonight, seems like he checks a lot of the boxes for Seattle and could certainly help our offense. That being said, unlike recent years, it seems like the list of “wants/needs” is growing longer when you look at our aging defense. Whether of not it’s 2018 or 2019, we will be seeing major changes in this roster and need an infusion of new talent in order to try to get better. Given that, I don’t think it’s about just fixing one/two pieces to fix the roster, we need difference makers all across the board which can either be done by going BPA or trying to trade back and hope more draft picks results in more “hits”. I think I’d be pretty disappointed if they draft a RB at 18 given the depth at the position this year, would much rather trade back and look for value at that position while also trying to add talent to other positions.
I loved your last article in terms of overall roster construction and trying to bring the Offense/Defense spending back to 50/50 (probably more like 46/46 given special teams), however, I think this offseason it seems like we may see things get even more out of whack. I think there’s a good chance they move on from Graham, Joeckel, Lacey and PRich while trying to keep Richardson, McDougald and potentially extending Thomas.
Ultimately changing that equation is going to take a few seasons with younger/cheaper talent on the defense stepping up as well as the team finding more offensive players worth paying. Will be interesting to watch for sure, I think we won’t see as much change as we want to the roster this year given the dead money on some of the deals negating the effectiveness of cutting guys and we will see a bigger shift into ’19 as those contracts start peeling off.
Thanks for the kind words and some interesting thoughts!
Honestly, with the depth of this running back class (like the depth of last year’s DB class) I think it would make the most sense to draft best front seven player after a trade back (or two) and then select a RB in the 2nd-3rd round range.
There, they should still be able to pick up a player like Royce Freeman, Rashaad Penny, or Derrius Guice.
What do people think about that? I just worry that this community is going to over emphasize the running back position in the first round…when we know that the depth is SO good this year and we have fewer draft picks than normal.
I think thats the consensus around here as well. The good defensive players (especially ones who can rush the passer) will go early.
Yep—it’s such a hard thing to tell yourself to do tho, especially with the running game being so bad last year. And how sexy some of these RBs are. My goodness, I love Sony Michel and Ronald Jones. They are so much fun to watch.
And if you trade back you won’t get them. Makes no sense to trade back and then look Edge rusher. If you do trade down, you’re targeting a back.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they waited until the 3rd round like they did with CB in the last draft. The value in the 3rd will surely be better than what you’d get in the 1st/2nd. The Seahawks scout RB talent very well so they can probably wait longer than the rest of the league
I’ll be stunned if they wait until round three to take a RB.
The value will not be better in that range. The top guys will be gone in a great class.
They waited to take a corner because they’ve consistently proven they can afford to do it. Sherman, Griffin, Maxwell, Thurmond, Lane etc. They coach corners well.
Their history with taking running backs is more mixed. So getting a big talent is vital.
Agree. They’re definitely picking one in either the first or the second.
It’s possible they get creative and trade down, thus not taking a RB first. However, it’s going to be tricky.
It’s very unlikely they’ll be able to move down and acquire two second rounders (or a late first and a second). More likely they’d end up a second and third, but no first. If that occurs, the top running backs will be gone by round three IMO. Freeman is a round two. Penny is a round two. I think Guice goes round two.
So yes — they could go defense early. But they’d run the risk of missing out on the top talent at their biggest position of need.
And I’ll say this — Ronald Jones II, Damien Harris, Chubb depending on his health/workout — legit first rounders.
I do think they have a belief in their ability to identify and coach RB’s much like CB’s. Of course that seems to fly in the face of what Pete said this past week. We know that they wont hesitate to take a RB high since they were interest in Gurley and Zeke. No one like that in this draft besides Barkley. I don’t know if they will see anybody as special enough to take as a late 1st or 2nd (Chubb?) Assume they stay at 18 and Chubb, Harris, Edmunds, Davenport and Settle are all there. I would for sure take one of the D guys. It kind of comes down to how confident are you in the coaches. If you are worried about the RB position stay in round 1 and take Chubb/Harris. If you believe they can find 2015 Rawls/ Carson, draft Freeman or Penny and let the staff get the max from them.
I think they absolutely would be willing to take a RB in round one personally. Chubb, if he matches his 2013 testing, will be one of the most explosive and unique athletes to enter the league since Christine Michael (drafted by the Seahawks with their first pick in the 2013 draft). The difference is, Chubb has none of the character issues Michael had. Damien Harris is deeply underrated. Ronald Jones II is an incredible talent. I think people overlook how good they are due to the position they play.
And quite frankly — that last sentence you wrote is what worries me. This running game has to get better. Has to. I have confidence in this team to find D-liners. They’ve brought in Bennett, Avril, Clemons, Clark, Jordan all on the cheap. They can work that out. They can’t go into 2018 with another abysmal running game. Hoping to find another Rawls or Carson won’t cut it. They can’t suffer another year like that. And if they don’t take a RB with their first pick, it’s unlikely Freeman or Penny will be there with their second picks — even if they move down.
This, to my mind, is thee conversation we will be having over and over again leading up to the draft. I really do believe, like you, that Jones, Harris, Chubb (and Michel!) are worthy of a first round pick.
Some way, some how, though, Seattle must get a second rounder or another third round pick. I simply cannot see JS picking at 18 and then waiting forever to pick again. I really don’t know how they get there…outside of maybe trading Earl.
I think they will move down — but only a little bit.
I agree with Rob… dilly dilly
I won’t be surprised if 2018 starts out like 2017 — two modest trades down (from 18 to mid 20s for a R3, then from mid 20s to early/mid 30s for a R4)
Then their first pick in the early/mid 30s for one of Harris/Jones/Michel.
Rob have you had a chance to do a deep dive on Rashaad Penney yet? I was a big Karem Hunt fan last year as a small school 3rd Rd option. From what I have seen Penney is even better and much more explosive. Also has value as a returner. The Senior Bowl and Combine will be huge for him but I currently see him as a late 2nd Rd pick and a potentially great compliment style wise to Carson. If we can’t get Michel or Harris he would be my 3rd choice.
Just wondering your thoughts.
Forgot Jones so I guess Penney would be choice #4
I really like penny so I don’t want people to think I don’t. but sdsu uses a power running game complete with a fullback on most carries. again he’s been very, very productive but if you see any game clips notice how he follows lanes created by a fullback. I’m not sure why seattle doesn’t use one all that much if at all. maybe a fullback clogs the lanes that a zone scheme is supposed to provide by itself?
In the zone running plays I’ve seen his FB is a complete liability he whiffs or doesn’t seem to know who to target. It ends up clogging lanes and leaves guys running free.
A FB should be perfectly fine in a zone scheme I just don’t think the Seahawks haven’t found one who can run through a zone read well enough and also make the key blocks. Also they need a FB who contributes a great deal on special teams, which means they need to be pretty quick. (Probably why they have tried converting big RBs).
They had this in Coleman a few years back.. he got into some problems off the field…
now he is lead blocking for ATL ….
Yep, I like Penny. Not as much as some others in this class. But for me he’s solidly round two. Might last into round three for a lucky team but no guarantee there. Good all-rounder, has some playmaking quality and good size. Combine will be interesting.
Is Josh Gordon a RFA? What would it take to get him? He seems like a great fit style wise for Russ and the Hawks offense.
Huge risk and baggage obviously.
Cleveland still, unbelievably, has in under control since he never played out his contract.
I think the Browns have control of Gordon for 2018.
Wish this wasn’t on a Monday night, can sit up at the weekends and watch these games but too late on a weeknight. At least here anyway. Hoping Georgia wins tonight and Michel and Scarborough have great games so that Chubb and Harris get less attention and are thus likely to drop ever so slightly in the draft.
Personally I think Michel will end up being the better next level player. I believe he will go higher in the draft than all but Barkley.
How so and why? Explain
Michel is expmisive, but he doesn’t really see the field as well as Chubb.
But that was a hell of a run on 3rd and 20!
I agree have been saying it for a while too. He is a home run hitter like Kamara is exactly the type of RB we need on the Hawks IMO.
I don’t disagree, however, Kamara isn’t a feature back. They have a bell cow and Alvin is the change of pace. If we are drafting a back early, he should be the guy who can be that bell cow as well. Not saying Michel can’t be that guy, but if that’s going to be your comp, that’s the role he would play.
Kamara is not a feature back because they have Ingram. He would be on a lot of teams.
yeah but Seattle doesn’t have anyone that is a bell cow back at the moment. Carson is a 540 yards per season runner. Michel hasn’t had a lot of touches but has been extremely productive with the ones he has had.
First time commenter but long time reader. Rob, just want to say thanks for such an amazing blog. Great content and the comments are always interesting. Especially with the Hawks out so early and a lot of uncertainty surrounding the team.
Few comments/questions.
1) Are there really any options for their 1st pick outside of G, RB, and DE (or hybrid LB/DE)? These seem to be the biggest needs with room for improvement in the run game and pass rush. I guess they could go WR, but I cannot see it.
2) I understand the feeling that they might trade a big time defensive player to recoup draft capital and salary cap relief. But Earl? I feel Sherman would be easier to replace, especially with the emergence of Griffin, Coleman and the potential cheap resigns of Maxwell and/or Shead. Perhaps for an early 2nd round pick and #2 WR? Is that enough? They really need another weapon and I don’t think Paul Richardson is that guy. Would also avoid hampering their compensatory picks in 2019 if they do not have to dip in FA.
Thanks man, appreciate you reading.
1. This draft is heavily stacked at defensive front seven, running back and quarterback with some options at interior OL. I think it’d be tough to deviate from those positions for Seattle.
2. I suspect they will keep Earl and Sherman. Watching the Rams toil against the Falcons perhaps highlighted how beatable they are. I think Bennett will move on, Cliff and Kam to retire. Lane to be cut. McDougald re-signed. Not sure on Sheldon but I think they’ll try. I think they’ll have to look to re-coup picks by manipulating the draft board. I suspect they will let Paul Richardson walk and will look for value at WR in free agency. There are LOTS of options at WR in free agency at the moment, so it could be a position where they get some value.
I agree on WR. They really could use another weapon for Russ. Just cannot see them resigning Graham either. I could also see them addressing G in free agency as well. The losses you describe above should free up enough cap space. Will be difficult to keep Sheldon unless the market is colder than we expect.
Trade back and Michel, please.
Stud. Point blank period. So damn quick and decisive
I would be quite happy with Michel in Seattle.
I’m not going to be watching the game, but I think watching the RBs mentioned above would be a very wise move for Seattle draft pick prognosticators. I’m not sure if any of the LB who declared for the draft fit the bill, but one of them in the 6’2″ 235 range.. that could transition to a S Safety/LB would also be something to watch.
Well Da’Ron Payne made me piss my pants..
And Sony Man….. Herby spoke to that suddenness, good lord
There have been wild rumors of Cable leaving Seattle from the local talking heads on the radio all day…. when pressed, they can’t back it up…. but there might be some smoke to this one.
I wouldn’t be shocked if he stayed or went…. coaches are changing teams left and right this offseason
The one rumor I’ve heard that I think has some teeth is that gruden wants him in Oakland.
Are they collecting up all the coaches fired by Al Davis on one coaching staff? lawl
If 10 years 100 mil guaranteed as possible I guess that is too lol I’ve heard gruden really likes him though
Gruden can have him. Two straight seasons of a terrible running game and mediocre line play at best. Have nothing against Cable personally, but his time here has passed. If you’re gonna keep Bevell then give him all the parts of the offense, a true offensive coordinator.
I’m not here to bag on Cable but I will say that having one Offensive coordinator might be good for a change moving forward.
Michel doing a nice job of pass blocking on Payne
Michel > Chubb
+1
Different type RBs but Michel looks like he plays at a different speed than everyone else.
I love Chubb because he’s a physical downhill runner in the mold of Frank Gore. But his medicals concern me to the point that I wouldn’t draft him. Michel is more in line with your modern NFL RB. He’s fast, smooth, can catch well and is big enough to run between the tackles. So many exciting prospects here and I hope the Hawks land at least one of them. Where is Harris btw? He’s another all around RB like Michel that I’d love to see in a Hawks uni.
not really. in this game…yeah…career wise….not really.
Michel running behind Wynn!
How I would love to hear that over and over again next year.
JS find a way to get those two and fix the run game. Screen game would be scary too.
He’s having a great game. But basing it off of one game is dangerous. Chubbis being alswatmed. If anything it does show Sony’s versatility and that they can find more ways to get him into space. That’s valuable as well, especially for our offense.
Not basing it off one game Michel has looked dynamic all year.
Chubb is being swarmed*
Fromm is an impressive young QB. Not the prettiest or most dynamic but he is a smart future NFL QB.
Yes Dawgs! Hope they can keep it up another half. They are not afraid of Bama at all.
Fromm is ok. He’s young. Eason is the more talented player, but once he got injured the home State kid so he’s not getting his job back. The rumors are that Eason will transfer to Washington. I hope that’s true.
That would be awesome for the Huskies.
They also have Field coming in next year who is an absolute stud
It’ll be interesting to see who the starting QB at Uga next year. 1 thing is for sure-Kirby Smart can recruit! UGA will be back.
Drew I disagree Fromm is a lot better than OK. That is a true freshman balling on the biggest stage.
Where is Damien Harris? Invisible man that half. You would think they would at least get him some touches.
Bama is making a huge mistake by putting the game in Hurts’ hands. He’s just not that great of a QB. He’s not even the bet QB they have, but the backup from Hawaii is a true freshman, I believe. How did they pull him out of Hawaii, I have no clue. Bama has two NFL backs and they are abandoning that running game. Oh and Fields is ridiculous
Bama is abandoning their bread and butter, run run and run some more. When UW played Bama last year I thought Hurts was mediocre at best. Not an NFL QB imo.
Harris averaged just under 10 carries a game this year. He’s very talented, but FWIW Saban has never shown full trust in him.
Just saw in another article, Derrick Henry, Eziekiel Elliott, do not fit PC and JS criteria for running backs. DUH ! Do you think they realize there is something wrong with their evaluation process ???
Zeke does. Henry isn’t a fit based on what we’ve seen them do.
Two huge calls missed by refs in Bama’s favor. Imagine that.
I really hope they can trade back from say 18 to 30 and grab that teams 62 as well. I would then agree that maybe you use that puck 30 on an RB then get your front 7 player at 62.
If they could get those picks I say Michel and Wynn.
Ideally we could go from 18 to 30 and get 62. Then trade 30 to go to say 36 and get 68. End up with 36, 60, and 68.
I’m a huge michel and wynn guy. I will say Tim Settle to me is someone Seattle should be looking at. PC never seems to want to go with the “full figured,” dlinemen but Settle is a player that could really cause some chaos on the line for the rest of the d.
……..perhaps it’s time to trade Earl for that elusive high 2nd…..sucks to say but maybe so.
Chubb looks like a Hawks RB this game. Get the ball and get swarmed
Just not as explosive after those acl tears. I’d take a Michel type RB over a Chubb type. Gotta be an all around back in today’s NFL, in fact that’s been a case for awhile now.
Haha sadly true. Chubb has a hard time making something out of nothing.
Wow who is this kid at QB for Bama! I was feeling safe about my Georgia bet till that drive.
He looks like Russ back there.
Some kid from Hawai’i who’s apparently a freshmen and from the same school as Mariota.
I think it’s pretty well agreed on here that Seattle, with the 18th pick, then no picks until round 4 (and 7 picks overall?), are somehow going to acquire more picks. I just don’t see John and Pete standing pat with only 7 picks. It seems a given that they will somehow wheel and deal their way into at least 10 picks.
The sticking points seem to be: How do we think Seattle will go about acquiring more picks?
1. Will they trade down from #18 (maybe multiple times) to acquire more picks like they have in the past?
2. Will they trade existing roster players for draft picks, and to clear salary cap space for 2018 and beyond?
One of those choices is something Seattle does just about every year, and the other would pretty much be unprecedented for them. I don’t see them changing that this year either.
Also, there’s a lot being made about Carroll’s end of year statements about improving the run game. The easy and obvious target would seem to be the RB position. They definitely need to add to the position, but whoever they add and however they do it, the biggest thing is those guys need to somehow stay off the injured list.
My contention is, the RB position is just a small piece in a bigger picture to get the run game back to where it was 2011-2015.
Pete Carroll’s philosophy: run the ball, play good defense. Those two things are symbiotic. One of the reasons Seattle’s run game failed to get going the last two seasons (and especially last season), is Seattle spent a large part of games playing from behind, which meant passing the ball a lot more. Seattle’s slow starts on offense are well documented, but in past seasons, the defense would be able to hold the score down; the last couple seasons, not as much. As Carroll would say, Seattle needs to “close the loop” on these principles that feed each other.
So what needs to be done to “close the loop”?
Is RB really the most important piece to this puzzle?
On offense and outside the RB position, Seattle needs to block better (Captain Obvious). It doesn’t seem like any of Seattle’s starting O-linemen are particularly good run blockers. However, three out of the five played significant parts of the season on knee/ankle injuries (Brown, Joeckel, Pocic). Brown and Pocic should be back in their spots, but I’m betting Joeckel is gone. Do they put in Odhiambo or Roos, sign a FA, or draft for LG? Hopefully a healthy Brown, whoever LG, Britt, Pocic (off season strength inprovement), Ifedi (sans penalties) will help greatly in the run game.
An overlooked aspect of Seattle’s receiving core (TE/WR) is their run blocking. Kearse was a good blocker, but he was replaced by PRich (who doesn’t strike me as a good blocker). We know Baldwin can block. I’d put Lockett about in the same boat as PRich. Graham is not a good blocker at TE. Willson isn’t much better. Hopefully Vannett steps up and Seattle upgrades the TE position in a blocking capacity. Also, this means I’d say let PRich walk in favor of the bigger bodied WRs I think Seattle expect to step in (Darboh, Moore).
This brings us to the defense. They had their worst season since 2010. There’s still a bunch of talent there, but it’s getting older and expensive. Some prominent folks here seem to be advocating trading away some of that talent for draft pics and future salary cap health.
Who, out of those players has real trade value?
Cliff and Kam probably won’t play again.
Lane? They already tried that one. He’ll end up being cut.
Bennett? He’d maybe get a low round pick. Replacing his snaps and production is a whole other story.
Sherman? He’s injured.
Wright? I don’t see anyone giving more than a low round pick for a 4-3 OLB with one year left on his contract, even a really good one. Seattle shouldn’t make a move like that without a replacement in place, and D.J. Alexander ain’t it.
The big talk here is Earl Thomas. He has one year left on his contract and the well documented stuff he said about the Cowboys “coming to get him”. After putting Sherman on the block last off season, it wouldn’t surprise me much if Seattle shopped him. I thought it was crazy that Seattle would trade Sherman, and I feel even stronger about it with Earl. It’s nonsense. Earl Thomas is the most important player on the defense, and he’s not yet 29 years old (same-ish age as K.J.). Ed Reed was a Pro Bowl player at 34 years old. I understand the need to get younger and cheaper, but he’s not the place to start with that endeavor. Trade Earl Thomas and watch what happens to the defense; you know, the defense that serves to keep the score low so Seattle can run the ball on offense. “Close the loop”, right?
The defense doesn’t just need to get cheaper, it needs improvement (Captain Obvious). Improving the defense will help the run game. What were the major weaknesses of the defense? The run defense was up and down. It really suffered the games K.J. and Bobby missed and/or played injured. The depth at LB was (and is) very poor. Some people call LBs the running backs of the defense. Does Seattle continue to neglect a position they haven’t drafted for since 2014? I don’t think so. They used a 2nd on Bobby and a 4th on K.J.
Did anyone see Seattle’s pass rush as a strength? I sure as hell didn’t. They were piss poor on 3rd and long, which points directly to the pass rush. It was every bit as frustrating as watching the offense trying to run the ball. No Cliff hurt a lot. McDowell trying to be Evel Kneivel hurt. Giving up a 2nd round pick for Sheldon because of that sucked. Naz Jones ending up on IR sucked. Bennett playing the whole season injured sucked.
So what are the positives for the future?
Jarran Reed.
Naz Jones looks like a real find at 3T DT.
MAYBE McDowell gets cleared to play? That would be huge. He’s still only 21 years old.
Frank Clark. I don’t think he’s near his ceiling.
Dion Jordan. Dion Jordan? Yeah, they need to RFA tender him like yesterday.
The rest?
Bennett is a question mark.
Branden Jackson, Quentin Jefferson, Garrison Smith; meh.
Notice I’ve omitted Sheldon Richardson. While I like him as a player, he’s going to be really expensive, so I don’t see him getting re-signed. That kind of goes in line with the idea of getting cheaper on defense. I believe he gets replaced either in FA or in the draft with a true 1T in the mold of Mebane. While I like Reed, I hope he increases his role as an interior rusher, which means more time at 3T in a rotation with Jones (and hopefully McDowell).
That being said, all this tells me they aren’t deep on edge rushers. There are those here who think we can luck up on guys like Clemons, Bennett, and Avril again. I have to kindly disagree. If any player can rush the passer, that player is going to be expensive to draft and to pay. Seattle will have to pay Clark after next season. Even if they RFA Jordan and he plays well next season, he will get paid after that; he’s still not a “for sure thing”. The only guy we can hang our hat on at DE is Clark.
Depth at edge rusher and LB are the two biggest holes I see on this team (even ahead of RB). The only way they’re going to get younger and cheaper at those positions is through the draft.
The ways I’d like to see Seattle address their needs:
Draft: DE, RB, LB
Free Agency: OL, TE
Oh yeah, please sign or draft a kicker better than Walsh (Captain Obvious). That, and I think it’s time to replace Jon Ryan.
you got a lot of good stuff going on here.
I’ll say it every day until the draft. Seattle should move down but not worry about pick volume. Their late round picks have been really, really crappy for a LOT of years.
Move down but maximize as much as they can get in the second and third round. That is their sweet spot, not this memories of past nonsense they have with Kam and Sherman…that was forever ago.
Clemons, Bennett and Avril all had at least one really productive year (At least 8 sacks and 12 QB hits) and had all lead their previous teams in sacks for a season. IMO they were simply overlooked and undervalued talent which clearly shouldn’t have been.
Alex Okafor 6’4″ 261 lbs 26yrs
Aaron Lynch 6’5″ 270 lbs 24yrs
Kony Ealy 6’4″ 275lbs 26yrs
Denico Autry 6’5″ 270 lbs 27yrs
These are the only DEs with close to that sort of upside in FA this year that won’t cost a fortune. They mostly have a similar size to Bennett and can rush as a 5tech. AAron Lynch is probably the most likely to put it all together and become a star player. So far Okafor has had the most impressive career but his persistent injuries are a big red flag.
FA looks to be loaded at DE.
I was with you all the way through until the bit about not being able to find a rusher in FA. Clemons, Bennett, Avril, now Dion Jordan off the scrap heap. There’s also Marcus Smith who might contribute. That’s not blind luck, my friend, and I’m not sure how you draw that conclusion so quickly and consequently shift the draft focus to DE.
The numbers Bennett and Avril put up before hitting free agency are better than what Clark has put up so far. The Seahawks consistently pick up players that have displayed talent. However those two in particular seem to be clear exceptions.
I came to that assertion because:
1. Seattle’s pass rush this season as a whole was not very good. That was with a little bit of Avril, Dwight Freeney, Dion Jordan, Marcus Smith, Branden Jackson, and a full season of Bennett and Clark. I’m sorry, but color me not impressed with Marcus Smith and Branden Jackson. Again, the only “sure thing” coming back is Clark, but I’d be shocked if they don’t RFA tender Jordan. I mean, if Seattle keeps Bennett next season, it’s a little better, but it’s still a big need, especially beyond 2018. The pass rush needs to get better, not maintain status quo.
2. Nobody is going to “give away” Bennett and Avril type rushers in their prime anymore. If a player can go get the QB even a little bit, they’re going to get paid – A LOT.
3. Nobody is going to give us Chris Clemons and a 4th round pick for a washed up ass Darryl Tapp again. In other words, they aren’t going to be able to flip Bennett for a younger version of Cliff Avril. I don’t think even the Browns are that stupid.
All of that is like saying, “Well, since Seattle drafted Sherman and Chancellor in the 5th, Maxwell in the 6th, Wright in the 4th, Wagner in the 2nd (2010-2012), that those are ‘repeatable’ events.” They’re not. They were lightning in a bottle. It might not be “blind luck”, but those moves definitely were taking advantage of market inefficiencies that are no longer there, because so much of the league is trying to copy Seattle’s defense.
True freshman QB flat out balling! Love it
What an answer by Georgia
Love to see Georgia put them away on this drive after that pick. Michel has not been in yet this half should see him this drive.
Can’t believe Harris has not been involved at all.
Georgia needs to keep the pressure on. They went conservator wand got whacked. They opened it up and then scored. Don’t let up.
That sucked fluky interception
Holy crap! What a mistake by Fromm.
Michel is so explosive to the hole and a decisive runner. Can’t wait to see this guys numbers at the combine.
Yeah he is special. The debate over who the Hawks should take at RB if they go RB early should be an easy one I think. The difference between Michel vs Chubb and Harris has been so obvious tonight. The explosion and speed Michel shows just looks different.
+1 Michel is special
Michel is a great runner, just needs a little crease to run through.
Roquan Smith looks like Wags out there tonight. He is everywhere!
Roquan Smith had a fantastic game. 13+ tackles 3 TFL’s. You gotta love that.
Trent Thompson just made a play like a middle linebacker. Wow.
That was a hard clean hit
Finally Harris why were they not feeding him all game!
Najee Harris is not Damien Harris
Great move by Harris.
Najee Harris is not Damien Harris
Can’t believe this game. So many big, fast athletes who are pounding each other and this pup freshman comes in and looks unphased.
He’s got that Russ kinda composure…wow!!!
And the kicker showed that Walsh composure. Too soon…?
Fromm is killing them. He’s being duped by the defense and he’s not seeing what they are doing to them. Checks into a run that they are looking for. Doesn’t see the blitz. Now he takes a sack? Awful fourth quarter for him.
A lot of that was Saban showing an early look-knowing Fromm would audible-then changing it up. Saban is a grandmaster.
What a great game! Excellent job by Bama coming from behind to win it all. Great job by Georgia too, nothing to be ashamed of when few gave you a shot of competing with Bams. Now PC and JS, go get one of these guys, especially one or two of Michel, Wynn, Carter, Harris, Smith, and Payne.
Georgia even in the loss is going to be putting a lot of dudes in the league over the next few years.
Dont forget Bamas Punter!
I want Georgia’s kicker. It was a great game, but give me that kicker
I’ll take him and Sony Michel.
I’ll take Wynn as well. Every replay even plays that didn’t work, he was right out in front of his man moving him right along. On nearly every sack it was a missed assignment by another player.
Wynn, Michel. So it was written.
+1
I’d spend one of our 5ths on that UGA kicker. Talk about clutch in the playoffs.
Underclassmen unfortunetely
So does Jalen Hurts now look to transfer? Chip Kelly is down a QB at UCLA.
Hurst was never a qb imo
He’s a running QB, thought he flashed some strides this year as a passer, still mechanically not there. Thing is, though, he might do well in that Chip Kelly offense.
Hurts might be best as a DB, if he wants to make it to the next level. If he wants to stay at QB transferring to UCLA makes a lot of sense.
I remember reading about Tua when he committed to ‘bama. Thought it was weird the no.1 qb would go to a school with Hurts cemented in as the starter.
Looks like it all worked out great, kid played great. Like a left handed mariota, with a bigger arm.
He was so sharp and fluid at times, it was almost sickening, and that release. Wow.
I think Hurts is done as a QB at Alabama.
Michel is my guy. He separated himself from Chubb and Harris. Not a huge fan of Chubb to be honest.
I’d be more than happy with any one of these guys, but I have been finding myself leaning more towards Michel, myself. Kinda reminds me a bit of Marcus Allen. Just feels like a really nice all round back.
Yeah I should say I still like Chubb, but I think he’s clearly behind his counterpart Michel.
I’m not sure he’s clearly behind Michel. I would say that I think the focus should be towards Michel because he makes plays when they break down and that’s all of Seattle’s plays.
Nick Chubb in an alternate system then Seattle’s I think will still be great.
After this game if you can make the analog from alabama, the best front seven in college, to the rams the best front seven seattle plays…I think Michel could be the best back for this team moving forward.
It’s amazing how our preferences for which back we prefer changes with each game. I’m going to say this without seeing any form of all 22 film. I think they have certain formations that tip the run with Chubb in the game and Bama jumped it with 8-9 defenders every time. They would bring a corner or safety late and ruin those running plays. It wasn’t a fair fight. With Sony they tried to be more multiple and they allow him to be a part of the passing game. Hard to get going if you’re swarmed every time you touch it. Horrible job by the offensive staff once they got a big lead. They killed their chances of winning. They may have given up the lead with their defense, but the offense hung them out to dry. They didn’t stick with what was working. Tremendous game. One of the better ones I’ve seen all year. Ballsy by Saban to go with Tua in that situation, but they’ve probably known for a while that he was the better QB. I knew it when he signed lol. He’s special. Maybe we snag him in two years to eventually take over for Russell. He’s got a lot of Russell in his game.
+1
I thought Georgia tipped their hand even with Michel in the game.. Frahm splitting wide against the Bama defense? Please stop that.
I guess the thing that I really like about Michel is that his skill set affords a playcaller to get more creative. Kinda goes back to the well rounded ness of his game. Considering how much Seattle has been running out of shotgun and such, I kinda like that match.
Wow what a great game!!! 2 years in a row the title won in the last play. Does’t get more exciting than that!
The young qb threw a perfect pass. It will be interesting to watch him develop.
Serious question-did Lorenzo Carter play the entire 2nd half? He flashed a couple times in the 1st half, but didn’t notice him until Bama missed that FG to end regulation.
Noticed the same. He was in some snaps, they typically ran away from him, and he lazily jogged in pursuit of the play. In his defense he didn’t over commit and protected against a cutback. Extremely underwhelming performance after first few series and I think he may have been off the field a lot. Didn’t give much effort on ST blocks either.
I thought Smith and the DT Thompson flashed more.
One down side about drafting Sony Michel is he is going to be 23 in about a month. Ronald Jones for example wont be 21 until August. Running backs have shorter careers. Just something to think about.
seattle does not seem adverse to drafting slightly older players….irvin per example.
Michel has split carries at Georgia so he still has a lot of tread on his tires. Fortunately he hasn’t been run in to the ground like most good RBs in college.
+1
Game just reaffirms two things to me. First, defense wins championships. And second, having a great quarterback is also a must. Hawks glass is definitely more than half full.
+1
I would say it is both defense and offense considering that Alabama was down 0-13 with their run only QB. It was only when they switched QBs and started passing that the runs opened up and scores occurred. Something to think about with this run first crowd.
I don’t believe there’s a ‘run first’ crowd.
I believe there’s a ‘never run the ball’ or ‘running doesn’t matter’ crowd within Seahawks twitter.
And then there’s the rest of us who understand and appreciate that a balanced offense is vital.
I appreciate a balanced offense also. To me that means using what works instead of mindlessly using what hasn’t worked. When Alabama found their predominantly running plays weren’t working in the first half, they changed gears and moved to a passing offense.
Nobody would argue doing more of what works in a single game isn’t the thing to do. That’s simple common sense.
There’s a big difference though between taking a one-game example and then trying to use that one example to prove on overall point on the importance of a running game. For example — Alabama have won countless National Championships doing what? Running the ball.
Great game!
-DaRon Payne looked pretty good to me. I know hes been tagged as run-stuffer, but where about do you figure he could be had in the draft? Maybe for if we cant retain Sheldon?
-Sony looks like the man who can get the tough yards turn nothing into something.
-Bamas underclassmen look like theyll keep the Tide scary for the foreseeable future.
Big F*cking Balls…. Nick Saban swapping QBs at halftime….
and I have to say, that Sony Michal kid looks special.
+1
💪💪💪
https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/941759919572779010
Rob, what are your thoughts on Christian Kirk? Unbelievable after the catch and great speed for his size. What pick (or range) do you think he goes?
I think he’s OK. Decent. But at the next level is he going to be a dominant playmaker. Question mark. Will look forward to see how he tests.
I like how Sony Michel can get skinny through tiny holes. Good vision too
That Bama freshman QB is the first guy I have seen who looks like a true comp for Russ. Left handed but everything else.
I thought the same thing. Gamer. Winner.
I will be honest the first time Rob mentioned Isiah Wynn I was like who?
But I focused on him every play last night and wow! He had a false start but his blocking play after play was excellent whether run or pass. So went and looked at as much tape as I could find. Every game same thing.
Cable talks about having to retrain College OL. Not this kid he is NFL ready and will start day #1. He plays with great balance, leverage and is footwork is impeccable.
I was all for signing a vet OL like Norwell but if the Hawks can get this guy run to thee podium and get you LG for the next 10 yrs. He is the safest OL prospect I have seen since starting to follow draft. Nelson has more upside but Wynn is a quality NFL starter for sure.
Wynn is really, really, really good.
Totally stood out against a monster front
Why does he not get more hype? Bitonio played at a small school so made sense. Wynn plays in the SEC.
It’s only January. Come April he’ll be a top 20 lock.
My wish list to PC/JS! Please fix the Hawks run game.
-Switch Blocking schemes
-Extend Duane Brown 2yrs
-Get Pocic on intense strength program this off season.
-Draft Wynn to play LG
-Draft Sony Michel
-Decide on OL early in camp and let them gel
OL/RB next 3 yrs
LT Brown (Backup Fant)
LG Wynn (Backup Rees)
C Britt (backup Hunt)
RG Pocic (Backup Roos)
RT Ifedi (Backup Fant)
RB Carson, Michel, Prosise or Mckissic, Davis or Rookie
Sounds good to me.
Sounds good. However, how will the Hawks get both Michel AND Wynn?
No idea to be honest my guess is both go early 2nd.
Wow, I’m a bit surprised to hear this high of praise from Daniel Jeremiah, especially that last line:
First half doesn’t count, there was no QB to throw the ball
well…..one of the Ridley’s anyway….
there was talk throughout the game from the guys in the booth that Ridley is a top ten draft pick. I hadn’t really thought of him but he is a great WR.
Yeah that last line seems hyperbolic. Crazy amount of talent in that game.
In a WR class that’s thin in the top 50 Ridley is probably the first one off the board. At this time last year I highly doubt many would have guessed that 3 WR’s would go in the top 10 of the draft. Because of this I think Ridley and Sutton have a good chance to get into the top 15.
drewdawg pointed this out above, but it definitely seems… interesting… that he would tweet this out (and it wasn’t deleted or anything.)
Of course, ASJ is all over the place on Twitter and I’m not going to try and read too much into it. But even without that, his comeback story is inspiring and his best playing days look to lie ahead of him (he’s 25). Sign him to replace Jimmy? He did also just hire Doug Hendrickson as his agent.
Here’s a quick 1 min interview of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TINRcOg0YrE
More interesting stuff further down on his Twitter:
1. Seems playing for a winning team is a priority:
2. Retweeted PRich tweet Dec. 17
3. This phrase seems… vaguely familiar:
Anyway, do you think he is a guy we should consider adding in FA?
Him or Maquise Lee? ASJ seems like an OK choice. I’m a little gun shy. He reminds me too much of a former UW TE that played for Seattle
Both maybe…? Should Lee turn out cheaper than P. Richardson?
The only real link of Lee going to Seattle is PC, who recruited him to USC. Hard to see Lee making his way to Seattle. There’s a much bigger hole in the roster to add ASJ than Lee.
Wynn looked everything Rob had advertised. The quick feet and maintaining balance when shifting his power (more specific, laterally) was very impressive. A few people have talked about this on here but if you can find a way to add SONYYYYYY and Wynn, you may have something pretty special.
With regards to Wynn, for a guy who is 6″2, I am really impressed at how low to the ground he can make himself appear. There were numerous times during that game where I speculated his height prior to looking it up and I had him pegged at a 6 foot guy who just could get low. Low man wins in this game and it showed against the best DL in the country.
I am with you 100% Kyle!
Russ needs shorter O-linemen imo. Wynn fits the bill.
I totally defer to Rob on OL evaluation. I can throw names out there and research good stories and blocking grades, but he’s got the proven eye for talent at the position!
That said, I think there are a number of intriguing Guard prospects in this draft, as much as we say there aren’t great Tackles.
Also, Rob, how would you stack Wynn up next to Price?
This was Pauline’s take on him:
That Pauline take has to be the opinion on Wynn as a LT because he does not have great length. But as a Guard I just don’t get that evaluation as a UDFA.
Price is a different player. Nasty mentality, more of an edge. Not as in control. Very strong. Bigger — height and size. More likely to really get after an opponent. Similar to a Pouncey.
I think Price has a higher upside, more potential. And coaches will love him. But Wynn has an opportunity to be incredibly consistent and a fine player in his own right.
Lot’s of good interior OL in this draft.
Thanks!
I love Price too but think he is a first rounder all day. I was hoping the Hawks might trade back to get Michel in the 2nd and Wynn in the 3rd. If they want Price I think they will have to stay at 18.
Yes. Wynn looks like a future Pro Bowl left guard in the NFL. He’d also have the benefit to playing alongside a good left tackle and an average to slightly above average center if he played for the Seahawks. The line, with the development of Pocic (and Ifedi) could actually be a strength in ’18 if Wynn is the pick.
I’m torn if I’d want him or Jones II (or good/great RB in general). Both would impact the team.
Guess it depends on the potential of Carson to remain healthy vs. the ability of Rees to take over at LG. Third round picks (who aren’t busts) need to start by year three and he got valuable starting experience this past year. I do not fault him for being a terrible LT because I never thought he had any ability to play the position. I’ve always thought he was best suited for LG (in part, because he’s not a tackle and he’s always talked about being more comfortable on the right side).
Problem with Carson and Rees is neither have proven to be ironmen (dating to their college days) in being able to handle a 16 game NFL schedule.
Seeing more of Jones II on youtube makes me think he could/would create more misses for the OL than Wynn could single handedly provide in pancakes or open holes.
It sucks so bad not to have a pick in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I hope they just keep trading down until the last of Wynn, Jones II, Chubb, Michel, etc. is there and they have accumulated picks and future picks in the process.
Great point on Carson vs. Rees.
JS is really gonna have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to get back into a position to nail this draft.
Even playoff teams making coaching changes and Hawks stay put. Little frustrating, but let’s hope PC hold players and coaches accountable. Then and only then will things maybe improve
Mike Shula fired from Carolina. Even when they went to the Super Bowl he never had any real weapons outside of Cam. Runs a very diversified offense. Always has a strong run game (4th in rush yards this year). Has a lot of QB runs options and boots. Like to get the ball to the RB and TE. He had been running Cam less to move along his game but that affected the team results since his Pass skills are lacking. Creativity wise he has a lot to offer Seattle in a coaching roll. New Run game Coordinator maybe?
If he could have any sway bringing Norwood here that’d be pretty cool
Norwell*
Surprised to see Shula got canned. Really liked a lot of his play design-presnap wrinkles, multiple options-RPO’s, misdirection. Doubt Shula will have a problem getting work-would like to have him on board in Seattle too.
The GM there should be on the hook for the lack of WR options he gave Cam. Redundency of few weapons- drafted Funchess with Benjamin on the roster, got 2 similar RB’s in last years draft McCaffrey and Samuel. Russel Shepard had the 2nd most catches from their WR position with 17. Complete no namers followed Shepard-Damierre Byrd, Benton Bersin, Kaelin Clay, Chris Manhertz-combined for 25 catches. Makes our WR room look a helluva lot better!
Their fanbase since 2014 has basically thought of Shula as their version of Bevell. The fans hate his guts and have wanted him canned for years. We’ll see what happens, sounds like Norv Turner is visiting the team at the moment.
Sam Jones from ASU declared. Plated LG for ASU. Definitely one to monitor. Graduated early. Was instrumental in beating the Huskies. Good tape of him going against Vea. Just wanted to mention, Someone brought up Kyle Queiro Who play’s S for Northwestern. I have tracking him for a while, he just keeps jumping out at you. He is a player I want the Hawks to come of this draft with.
Good call on Jones. I haven’t got around to the OL class yet, but I do have him on my list. Yet another name to add to the list of potentially interesting Guards. Here’s Pauline’s notes from the summer for you:
And here’s the mention of Queiro from the other day in case anyone missed it 🙂 Glad to hear others were on to him well before I was.
Hate how ‘Bama acts like they’re an underdog or as RB Damien Harris said ‘we weren’t supposed to be here!’ Hahaha!!! According to who? I guess score one for the little guys?
Thing I loved about PC’s teams at USC? They owned. They were cocky as hell. Knew they were the best and didn’t give a sh**t if anyone liked it or not.
Not this persecution complex that the most boring dynasty in CFB currently has.
Damien Harris: They said we weren’t supposed to be here, and we won all of this!’
Truly inspirational story of a team overcoming the odds and proving that they belong at the top.
HAHAHA missed that! Guess Saban has his juggernaut of a team truly believing they are underdogs somehow. Master motivator? Bama is currently having a down 2018 recruiting wise sitting at #6 currently(per ESPN)- rough sled for the underdogs eh.
hahaha lol
I think they did finally get a reality check this year though.
Well they were the only guys in the playoffs that weren’t champions?…. And they did show big, bad, undefeated UCF that record means nothing… So maybe he’s right?…
I don’t watch a lot of college ball, my wife is a football widow on Sundays, Thursdays and Mondays already, just don’t have the time.
So I have no idea how this game compares to other games or the players to other players so i will just say
WOW!!!!
what a game!
Michel looked like a great future pro. Can catch, gets skinny and finds the hole, has speed and tries to run through people also.
R Smith looks alike an excellent LB
Wynn looked pretty solid when I had a chance to watch him at LT
Alabama just looks stacked with future pros, especially on D. I wonder how many guys will look better when they have a chance to shine somewhere else and how many look great now because of who plays beside them.
and the Tua T^^%$#$%&* QB! He even preaches like a left handed Russell
I have to agree with V12, truly inspirational story of a little school with a $10 million coach and only 40 or 50 guys who are 4 and 5 star recruits and a QB who god likes. Gives all us little guys hope!
Okay Rob, I watched Wynn, and he was everything you said he was. He was smooth as glass and dominated. He has the skills he’ll need at the NFL level. I don’t care one with that he’s 6′ 2″, I just hope and pray he has the arm length to play tackle. Even if he plays guard, I’d be happy if he was a Hawk.
Other than Sony Michel, the draft eligible running backs didn’t impress.
I think Michel will end up being a top 25 pick. The things he can do at 220lbs is too good to pass up.
All the discussion about trading vet players for in order to get a 2nd or 3rd round picks but i haven’t seen any draft pick for draft pick trades. Last year this trade was made:
49ers traded No. 67 (second pick of 3rd rd) pick to Saints for No. 229 pick (7th) and a 2018 2nd-round pick
I know the stock is limited but they still have a few options. We have 3 5th round picks this year. Also we should have a few comp picks for Jimmy and Sheldon should they leave in 2019. I have not looked at the chart but on face value that should be a comparable deal, considering the NO 2nd rd pick will now be a late pick this year. That way you could pick a falling D player at 18 (Edmunds, Davenport, Settle) and possibly another player who dropped into early 3rd (Wynn, Freeman?).
You could also play it way and add to the stock (3rd or 4th) if we traded back into the low-mid 20’s with a small trade back giving you 3 picks in the first 3 rounds.
Thoughts on ASJ possibly coming to Seattle? He posted something interesting on Twitter about “Marquise Lee in a Seahawks UNI next year super underrated talent”. ASJ just aligned himself with a new agent, the same agent as M. Bennett, D. Jordan and M. Lynch. Could be something, could be nothing. If we do in fact lose Graham and P. Rich, ASJ and Lee could be guys to look at.