I’ve just finished putting together an updated mock draft (for the first time this will include two rounds). Expect to see it live on Monday.
Here are some preview notes before the big reveal…
— After watching the day three practise footage from the Senior Bowl (see above) it seems clear that Nick Martin (C, Notre Dame) was the best offensive lineman in Mobile. He could easily be a top-40 pick and could go in the first round. That will be represented in the mock draft tomorrow. The only key difference between Nick and Zack Martin is footwork/quickness. That’s why Zack was a left tackle in college and Nick played center. That’s pretty much it between the two. Like Zack, Nick can start immediately and should enjoy a long, successful NFL career. It’s close between Nick Martin and Shon Coleman for the most underrated player in this class.
— There isn’t another player like Noah Spence (DE, Eastern Kentucky) in this draft class and for that reason he could go in the top-15. There’s even a chance he makes it into the top-10. Teams love quick-twitch pass-rushers who can beat a tackle in many different ways. Spence wins with speed off the edge, change of direction, speed-to-power, excellent hand use and he explodes to the ball carrier. Vic Beasley was the #8 overall pick a year ago and there’s no reason why Spence can’t also go in that range. He just needs to reassure teams he’s a changed man after his departure from Ohio State. Someone will take a chance on him.
— The receivers in this class might suffer a fall — with none going in the top-20. There are some good wide-outs available but a mix of different needs and a large number of premium players at OT, DL and CB could mean only three go in the first round. Who could be the first receiver off the board? Notre Dame’s Will Fuller is in with a shout due to his electrifying downfield speed and excellent character. Baylor’s Corey Coleman is also a big-time playmaker with a fantastic athletic profile. They might jump ahead of Ole Miss’ reliable and less athletic Laquon Treadwell.
— Increasingly I think we’ll see the top three quarterbacks go in the top-10. Cleveland at #2 are definitely going to take one. They’ll have their pick of the bunch unless Tennessee finds a willing trade partner. San Diego and Dallas should consider ‘heir apparent’ picks for Philip Rivers and Tony Romo. There’s also a chance Los Angeles and Philadelphia look to trade up. Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz and Jared Goff all have their pro’s and cons — but the drop off once they leave the board is significant. In my latest mock all three were off the board in the top-10 — Lynch to the Browns, Wentz to Dallas and Goff to the Eagles.
— In tomorrow’s projection, five offensive tackles were off the board before Seattle’s pick at #26 — Tunsil, Decker, Stanley, Conklin and Coleman (in that order). It’s not an unrealistic scenario. The only thing preventing Shon Coleman from being an established top-15 talent is his age (24) and the need for teams to do a thorough medical check following his successful fight against cancer. Even if Russell Okung departs in free agency, the Seahawks don’t need to force this need. There is some depth to this offensive tackle class. As bad as Texas Tech’s Le’Raven Clark looked in Mobile (and when I say bad, I mean horrendous) — the Seahawks have shown a willingness to draft raw size ideals and coach them up. If they’re willing to take a defensive lineman and turn him into a starting right guard or a tight end and turn him into a starting tackle — there’s every chance they back themselves to take Clark in the middle or later rounds with his ideal size, frame and length (36 inch arms) and try to coach him into a starting NFL left or right tackle.
— The big challenge the Seahawks might face is finding a left guard in this class. They have a size ideal at the position — they want ‘massive’. They have consistently used 325lbs, tall and long offensive linemen at left guard. It’s unlikely they’re going to go away from that now. The problem is, there aren’t even many tackle converts that could kick inside and fill that need. It could push them to look at outside free agents to compete with Justin Britt in camp. Alternatively they could draft someone like Arkansas’ Sebastien Tretola and accept his lack of length (30.5 inch arms) for the sake of adding a gritty, physical run blocker with surprising mobility. They have conceded on ideals before (I doubt they planned to draft a 5-10 quarterback, for example) but the player generally has to excel in so many other ways to counteract the deficiency. Tretola’s size and playing style ideally fits their desire to become tougher in the trenches.
— Pete Carroll spoke about improving the pass rush, noting (and I’m paraphrasing), “We’ll see what happens in the draft”. After putting together a two-round mock, it might not be the easiest thing to accomplish. There could be two waves of value on the defensive line in rounds 1-2. An early rush that will see the likes of Joey Bosa, DeForest Buckner, Noah Spence and Sheldon Rankins leave the board in the top-20. The second wave arguably comes between picks #35-50 where a host of defensive lineman will likely be taken. The Seahawks own the #56 pick. If this proves to be the case, it might push them towards the veteran free agent market again. The Seahawks have had a lot of success finding defensive linemen at great value on the open market. That might be their best chance to upgrade the pass rush this year too.
I keep thinking about Clark and the precedent of the Seahawks’ willingness to coach a project player. I think the advantage of doing so with a DL convert is you really are starting from scratch. The player is likely receptive to coaching in a unique way because the technique is all new.
I have always assumed Richard Sherman is such a good form tackler because he learned it late when he was both extremely smart and eager.
The problem with Clark as a project is all that he would be required to unlearn. You would have to break all that muscle memory to create a blank slate to begin with. If his habits and technique are bad this late with all that high school and High level college coaching, I find it hard to imagine his mind and body would be able to clear out what he’s been doing.
I understand the attraction, but I think it works against him that he has actually been in the position his whole career that you would be trying to teach to him.
It’s an extremely valid point, Seahawcrates. Even though he has the raw skill set, it doesn’t mean he’s receptive to coaching. That might actually be an issue for him. Unfortunately, it’s something only the teams really get to discover. Can he truly be a blank canvass having played the position for so long? Good question.
I suppose one counter could be — the wide open, air-raid scheme at Texas Tech perhaps has played some part in his bad technique. He’s not really been part of anything remotely similar to a NFL offense. But it’s still a very valid point you raise.
Not many prospects with Clark’s length. He looks reasonably athletic too. He just has horrendous technique. It didn’t help that he was going up against the likes of Spence in practice and Day/Fackrell in the game.
He plays so badly he really doesn’t warrant a draft grade. But his size/length combo make him worth a Day 3 flier.
Rob, do you think Clark would fit better at LG?
I’d rather try and work on him at tackle with that size and length.
Rob, it may be he is more open to an NFL style of play and coaching, but it think that switch has been hard on tackles who were good, so I’d rather see Pete and company invest elsewhere. I don’t comment much but I follow you religiously, so I’ll take the opportunity now to tell you how much I appreciate this blog and your work. I’m learning a lot from you and the commenters and the draft, training camp, and of course the season are so much more interesting and enjoyable as a result. Thank you. I have no idea how you can put in so much time and quality thought and writing but I greatly appreciate that you do.
To add on the Air Raid comment. When you watch the all-22 tape or a view from behind the center, you notice the extremely wide splits the lineman have in the TTU offense, effectively each one is on an island. Not an analyst by any means, but I wonder what type of emergent behavior results from having to protect against inside moves to a greater extent that in most systems. The counter argument is Dahl who has been part of the same Air Raid offense in Pullman instead of Lubbock.
I actually think Clark is the ideal 6-7th round pick as a developmental OT. If we had a chacne to take a guy like him last year he could have spent the year under Cable and might be ready as an option to replace Okung. When you have a chance to take guy with size, length, athleticism you take the shot. If you can coach him up you get a starter at a pemium postion and if not all it cost was a late round pick. Very little downside IMO.
I think he goes a lot earlier than people think he will. If Washington took him in the 4th-5th Callahan would turn him into a starting LT in two years I think.
The Seahawks might already have that player in Terry Poole! Obviously he was horrendous in his first season, but so will be Le’Raven Clark this preseason. Who is to say that Terry Poole could not flash some major improvement this preseason and make a bid to be starting RT? He was the Seahawks’ OL project last year, he’s got the athleticism and length, so what’s stopping him from putting it together that wouldn’t stop Clark?
Ever heard of the 10,000 hours concept regarding mastery of ANYTHING that requires skill? You have to do that thing for at least 10,000 hours of practice, correction, focus, revision, etc. before you can even be adequately proficient at it. And the great masters of any discipline or craft usually have 20 to 40 thousand hours of doing it.
The process of myelinization of the nerve pathways and brain processes involved is not an automatic one.
And it really doesn’t matter what the skill is. This was discovered by musicians trying to identify prodigy, born from the womb musicians and violin players . . . and which then led to them finding out that there isn’t a single accomplished violin player who ever lived who even became very good at it who hadn’t spent the requisite 10K hours at it.
This would explain (partly) why Michael Jordan never had any shot at becoming even very decent as a baseball player. What he knows in his brain and fast twitch responses to do with a basketball is not translatable to swinging a bad or knowing where slider will be when it reaches the plate.
And you definitely cannot begin to pick up the true subtlety and nuance until you are well PAST 10,000 hours.
This is my general objection to D line converts and projects. They simply don’t have the time developing the skill set. And two years is unrealistic. Maybe for SOME athletes they will develop as intended, but by and large you are engaged in an extreme low probability proposition of taking someone who has never done something before and then asking him to become NFL quality at it in a compressed period of time.
If they take an ‘ideal body type’, I hope it’s not before the sixth round. And that they believe they can devote at least a couple years worth of roster space on low probability gamble. And this Clark prospect doesn’t sound like he’ll be available sooner than that.
Really looking forward to tomorrows Mock. Great insights after watching the practice tape and I agree completely about Spence, Coleman, Martin.
If somehow we cam out of Rd #1 with either Coleman, Spence, Martin or Rankins I would think that it would have to be considered a great pick.
Do you think there is a chance a guy like Jhad Ward out of Illinois might be there at 56?
There is a chance that Jihad Ward will be there. He needed the game time reps.
Remember, the Senior bowl practice drills are kind of set up for the D-lineman to stand out, because they can cross and attack multiple gaps. They wouldn’t be able to do that with 3-4 more guys lined on the D-line as well,
Good point Vol. He definitely is an interesting athlete though.
Absolutely. I’d be thrilled if we selected him. One of my favorite prospects in this class.
I would be thrilled with either Ward, Rankins, Butler, even Reed. Starting to think there is a very real possibility this year that the Seahawks go big DL early in this draft.
Brian Nemhauser at HawkBlogger made a pretty convincing case in his writes up on Seahawks FA Targets for the Hawks to add veteran O-lineman through FA, and acquire younger talent at DT in FA and the draft. It’s a feeling I’ve had all along.
That said, really like Nick Martin a lot.
There ya ae man! Was wondering where ya went and if everything was ok.
It’s funny. I kind of get the same sense. This draft feels like 2014. By that I mean, 2014 was so deep with WRs that the 6th, 7th, or even 8th WR was essentially the BPA. 2016 has a real chance to be that with the D-line.
I’m still a proponent of taking DTs in the 3rd and later, but there’s difference making athletes at DT this year.
I’m changing my stance on this debate.
Everything’s good! Just went away on holiday, and promised the wife I wouldn’t obsess over the Hawks and these boards. BTW, lots of Hawk fans in Hawaii.
Yup, lots of DTs this year. May not necessarily be the first pick, but I think somewhere between rounds 1 through 3 they pick up their player. Hoping some of the juniors SPARQ-out in the combine to add to the pile, maybe push a couple of these bad boys back a bit.
Rob
What did you think of Tapper and Striker. I love both guys but from what I saw in the practice tape they seemed to just have an average week. Where do you see them going?
Round 2-3.
I look forward to your next mock, Rob. Good stuff, as always. If Coleman is off the board, I can see the Hawks taking Martin at #26, or conceivable trading back a few spots and taking him then. As I mentioned late in a prior post (EranUnger brought up the point), center is the most complex position on the line, given the need to call out protections and recognize defensive fronts. Of all line positions, I can see the Hawks wanting to draft an actual center, as it would make the learning curve of adjusting to the NFL less steep, rather than try to convert a D-lineman. This would seem to be the hard lesson of the failed Nowak experiment. That’s why I personally don’t think we will see Sokoli there anytime soon.
As to guard, it seems there are several free agents who would fit the Hawks’ specs. Also, many of the 21 and 22 year olds coming out of college have the capacity to put on #10-15 of good weight (more so than an older NFL vet) under the rigorous NFL nutrition and training program. So, they could conceivably grab someone with the appropriate frame and athleticism, and “grow them up” to fit their ideal. Pinkins sort of did that this year to become a LB and as did Irvin (with perhaps mixed results).
I’ll be very interested to see what happens with the O linemen they have stashed on their roster. JS seems to draft at least a year in advance of need, maybe so he can take BPA. if last year’s draft is any indication, then, they’re planning on letting Sweezy and possibly Lane go. Pinkins and Marsh may provide insurance for Irvin’s departure. I don’t see a replacement for Menane or Rubin. It is shaping up to be an interesting offseason.
The typical concern: good prospects skyrocket up the rankings, blow up at the combine, and another top heavy draft leaving the Hawks no shot at top guys. The cost of being a contender.
I think even more than usual because of limited funds, the choice is 1. let veterans go, go youth and potential with less regard to immediate SB contention, or 2. win with the existing nucleus now, keep more of it, find immediate starters.
Under scenario 1, you go for types like LeRaven Clark, and accept growing pains (and losing), in hopes of such picks becoming good in 2-3 yrs. I have never been a fan of accepting less than starter potential after one season or less.
Why can’t you keep your core group of guys and still add youth? Isn’t that what the draft is?
Exactly he Hawks staff does a great job coaching guys up and that is why we have so many UDFA on the roster.
You can “do some of both” but it is a matter of prioritizing and money, but more importantly, a closing playoff window (depending on who stays). The Hawks have not had it easy last offseason, this one is weird too. Lots to juggle.
Rather have the problem of trying to keep your own, as opposed to picking high in the draft every year and having tons of money in FA. That guarantess absolutely nothing.
The ‘headaches’ Seattle has this off-season aren’t a bad thing.
That window ain’t closing for another 3-4 years, and possibly longer.
I think that Russell Wilson is so good that he’s all we need to at least be a playoff contender. That’s something people don’t really mention.
Here’s a guy I think could be a candidate for Seattle’s 1st round pick, other than a DL or OL.
He’s got the big time stats/production Seattle likes in it’s early round picks, rumored to run in the 4.5’s, IMO will blow up the combine, still somewhat raw, STs stud, and another under-sized guy.
LSU LB Deion Jones: 100 tackles, 13.5 TFL, 6 QB hurries, 5.0 QB sacks, 3 PBU, 2 INTs, 1 FF, 1 def. TD
Deone Bucannon was a VMAC visitor and there was interest, or rumored, in Ryan Shazier. Telling me that Seattle wouldn’t afraid of pulling the trigger on this kind of guy.
Has a lot of Lavonte David to his game.
He would look great in a Seattle uniform.
I was hoping he was a possibility for round 2 but he could blow up at the combine and go a lot earlier than 56.
Love to look of Alex Mack snapping the ball to Russ! Sign of things to come?
RW is sbout to get pro bowl MVP.
I get it’s a glorified exhibition game, but Russ sure looks good throwing down the field to these big wideouts.
I know he looked great all season when he had time. That is why an OL is priority #1 this off season IMO. We have an elite QB and a quality WR group lets give him some time he has shown what he can do if they do.
I think Hue Jackson has a good chance to convince Mack to stay.
If Mack leaves Cleveland he will probably go back to Jacksonville where he originally signed. The Jags have a ton of cap space and an up and coming team.
How about Wisniewski? The Seahawks wanted him last year and he won’t carry a major price tag, I don’t believe.
I think he would be a great addition. Not flashy but solid and durable. Would come at good price too I think.
As for left guards, how about LSU’s Alexander? He started there for 2 years before moving to RT his senior year. Alexander is 330 with 34″ arm length. As for left tackle, I think the Seahawks should invest in a legitimate player at that position. With Monroe and the draft position to take a LT, I don’t think the Ravens will pay Osemele — especially since he wants to play LT (and get paid like one). If both Okung and Sweezy leave, the Seahawks will have the cheapest (and worst) offensive line in the NFL. And that’s a recipe to get your franchise QB hurt. They should sign Osemele.
For me, I wouldn’t mind them getting Okung back at what appears to be a plummeting price, then drafting O line in 3 out of first 4 picks. I think that there’s a center and 2 guards to be had that would be an improvement over what they have now.
Clark has potential, but I think I’ve heard Pete talk about 1st round picks playing right away. I cannot see them picking Clark if he can’t start or be fighting for a starting spot.
If they don’t have first round grades on players – which seems to happen a lot – they’ll trade out if they possibly can.
Clark is a mid round pick at best. No chance he goes in Rd #1
I don’t think Rob is suggesting we use a high pick on Clark. Compare Clark to Garrett Scott, whom we drafted in the sixth round of the 2014 draft. They are similar prospects and Clark would be taken about the same spot if targeted.
Speaking of Scott, wasn’t there some chance that he could revive his career at a later date? Anyone heard anything on him?
Woah — I definitely wouldn’t recommend Clark in round one. No chance.
The point in the piece was maybe they’d take him in the mid or late rounds.
Time to look into some lesser hyped names.
Denver Kirkland OG rd 2
Joe Haeg OG rd 3-4
Christian Westerman OG rd 4
Max Tuerk C/G rd 4-5?
Patrick Ehinger OG rd. 5
Yannnick Ngakoue DE rd.4
Dadi Nicholas OLB/DE rd 4
Really like Haeg a lot and Tuerk as well.
Im going to add a long list of offensive tackles that are being ignored by us right now. Day three propects that need to be looked at.
Adam Bisnowaty – Pitt (Havent heard this guys name on here in awhile)
John Theus – Georgia
Tyler Johnston – Oregon
Tyler Marz – Wisconsin
Jerald Hawkins – LSU (Written off by everyone on here awhile back, but worth a second look?)
Alex Lewis – Nebraska (Rob mentioned breifly- stock hurt by criminal behavior)
Caleb Benenoch – UCLA
Kyle Murphy – Stanford (Stuggled at Senior Bowl?)
Spencer Drango – Baylor
Branden Shell – Coastal Carolina
Clint Van Horn – Marshall
Jordan Swindle (Good Size!) – Kentucky
Fahn Cooper – Ole Miss (Rob is a fan)
I think these guys need to be closely examined, in case a diamond in the rough lies among them.
I don’t think Bisnowaty declared.
Hawkins is awful. He should’ve came back.
Still think that Colorado’s Stephane Nembot, originally a D-lineman, is comparable to Le’Raven Clark.
Bisnowaty didn’t declare for the draft.
Probably a smart move. With a solid year I could see him being a day #1-2 pick.
Add Chase Farris, RT, Ohio State to that list. I’ll keep banging this guys drum. I think he’s better than a UDFA target. I liked what I saw on his draftbreakdown video.
What are people’s thoughts on Alabama offensive tackle Dominick Jackson? I’ve seen Alabama fans screaming about how ‘underrated’ he is. Worth a look?
I’ll look at Jackson if you look at Farris.
Deal?
Here’s a BR good article on Jackson:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2606702-toughness-is-the-key-to-nick-sabans-alabama-dynasty
Sounds like a winner, though I think he would be a better candidate for LG than RT based on his reported athletic limitations that are consistent with other information I’ve read on him. I think he would make a great interior mauler at LG, which is exactly what we need.
I’ve mentioned Denver Kirkland a bunch of times but all I can find is highlights from their RBs or Henry at TE. I like (for LG) what I’ve seen though. I don’t care which, but I’d like an Arkansas player to be our LG next year if at all possible.
I can’t disagree with the OL Coleman/Martin et all discussion and I certainly like both prospects but it’s worth reminding folks how difficult it is to find a stud DE or penetrating DT outside of round one. There seems to be 1 to 2 a year max.
Look back at the past 10 years of successful DE/DTs taken after the first round:
2006 – 4th Dumervil, 5th Kyle Williams
2007 – 2nd Woodley
2008 – 2nd Campbell
2009 – 2nd Barwin?, 4th Melton, UDFA Bennett
2010 – 2nd Dunlap, 4th Atkins, 6th Hardy
2011 – 3rd Houston
2012 – 2nd Short, 2nd Collins
2013 – none
2014 – none
2015 – 2nd Clark?
2016 – ?
Maybe I’m missing some guys but those aren’t good odds. If PC was honest in his post season presser saying we need to improve the pass rush (he’s always been fairly frank in these including last year talking about the return game), he’s a smart guy and knows his odds of landing a DE/DT who tilts the field in RD2/3 is low. It’s not like we have the money to chase a stud FA DE. It’s going to come through the draft.
As much as I want to get behind a Coleman/Martin RD1, provided the right DE is there, I can’t help but think the first pick is a quick twitch pass rusher. They’re just too hard to find later in the draft.
“I can’t help but think the first pick is a quick twitch pass rusher”
Who though? When Noah Spence goes top-15, there really aren’t any quick-twitch pass rushers lasting to the #26 pick.
Not seein’ Jurrell Casey, Everson Griffen, DeMarcus Lawence, Tyrone Crawford, Bennie Logan, Preston Smith, Charles Johnson, Aaron Lynch, Olivier Vernon, Pernell McPhee, Derek Wolfe, Mario Edwards, jr., and others.
From what I have seen Spence is the only elite Edge rusher in this draft. Bosa will likely be a top 3-5 pick and Next best is likely Lawson but he is more of a power / effort guy.
There are a lot of great DT prospects this draft but speed rushers off the Edge are at a premium and why I doubt Spence gets past TB at 9.
“I can’t help but think the first pick is a quick twitch pass rusher. They’re just too hard to find later in the draft.”
Since I’ve seen this posted elsewhere I would invite us to examine this thought a bit.
1. How/where would that player fit. Right now, we’re looking at Avril, Hill, Clark, Bennett in our pass rush package. So if you’re getting a quick twitch guy …. are you replacing Avril or Bennett here?
2. They are hard to find. I would say this is true not because they are rare, which they are. I would say it’s hard to find because NFL pass rushers are made, not born. Almost all good pass rushers end up getting into the league and somewhere along the line, a light comes on. It’s exceptionally rare for a twitch pass rusher to just come into the league ready to do their voodoo. Even guys like Robert Quinn who I’d put near the top of the list — ended up taking more than a year to really become functional at that.
There isn’t a special ingredient that we can look at a player and say ‘He’s going to excel at pass rush’. In almost all cases, you really are just hoping that they acquire that special spark after you acquire them.
3. If you’re in the market for quick twitch pass rusher — then the clearly obvious solution would be to simply resign Irvin. He does possess that skill. And signing him wouldn’t affect future comp picks. And further, he’s one of Our Kinds of Guys. The match is too obvious to ignore. And he’s also a player who can complement alongside the pass rush DL package. So there is additional value instead of replacement/rotational value.
I think how we handle Irvin in UFA will tell us everything we need to know about whether or not they feel we need a twitch rusher.
Based on the reports on Spence and if the Hawks believe that he’s one of those special pass rush guys, my guess is that if he somehow fell to the Hawks, they’d probably take him, even with their OL needs. Bennett can always be rotated inside more if we had another threat edge rusher. Besides, the more threats we have at DE, the more rest Bennett & Avril get and thus more fresh towards the end of the game. Given that Rob and others believe that Spence will go in the top 15 or 10 and that no other edge rusher is left worthy of a 1st round grade then it makes sense that the Hawks address other needs with their first pick.
IMO, Irvin isn’t the solution if the Hawks wanted another quick twitch pass rusher. He’s got the body and quickness and we’ve always hoped he’d be that dominating pass rusher but it’s clear that he can’t do it. If the Hawks really believed he was capable of being that consistent 10+ sack guy, he would have been a full-time end rather than LB.
He may not be a first-year star, but getting Oakman at the end of the third would be money. I just think, with his athleticism, I would hate to pass on him and then see him become an All-Pro with some other team. The whole draft is a projection, but if you are projecting how good a player could be, it’s not a bad idea to place them on a 6’8″ mountain who can still add a lot of good weight and be a huge force.
Someone mentioned that lots of good pass rushers are taken after round one. Don’t be surprised if this is yet another one of them.
Hmmm…this Avery Young, OL, Auburn is pretty good. Younger brother of Chicago Bear Willie Young. Wondering if he has the size for LG or RT.
For next year, right? Or is he declaring?
I thought he declared, but you could be right.
He declared and has gotten an invite to the Combine. 6’6″, 305 lbs according to Auburn’s 2015 roster.
Is there a 4th quarterback that could slip into the 1st round discussion? The 5th year option is particularly valuable for QBs and that is what generated the trade out of the 1st round a couple years ago.
Given the general poor state of offensive line play around the league this year, I think a run on top OL prospects is a very real possibility. So who might slip?
JS might want to trade out of the 1st round but the only scenario I see besides QB that could create a desire for another team to trade up is a top WR slipping.
Would Seattle consider a WR at 26 if we lose Kearse?
The other scenario I want to monitor as the combine comes is whether teams begin to fall in love with prospects and a certain injured Notre Dame LB might slide back to the Seahawks.
4th QB could be Cook. Late 1st round would be a hunch, but the Rams are a wildcard… they could go any direction at QB.. since they do not currently have a playoff caliber QB on the roster. Foles was garbage.
As for ND LB Jaylon Smith….. where he goes is anyone guess right now. I’ve not heard any updates as to the severity of the knee injury, except that it was rather extensive. ACL and MCL injuries. He is the one player I could see Seattle grabbing…. and tossing the draft board out the window. He was a legit top 7 pick this year, prior to the injury. I suspect the 49ers will take him in all honesty, that has been their “style” the last few drafts.
@nfldraftscout: Insider Buzz: LB Jaylon Smith Expected to Be Ready for Start of 2016 Season https://t.co/9Ot8wMrCmr via @bleacherreport
I don’t see Cook in any positive way. Just a one-contract backup waiting to happen. I also don’t think it helped him to skip the Senior Bowl. I’m sure there is a motive there, but you want a guy who is unproven to be hungry to show up to any showcase he can.
Just watched Illinois vs Ohio State and Jihad Ward was totally dominated by the Ohio State offensive line. Chase Harris, Ohio State Right Tackle, is a tad on the smaller side but is one to moniter, played with a lot of power and agression and would take off running to block downfield. Definetly one to take a look at.
Ward looked small and weak compared to Ohio’s guards and tackles, and generated 0 push up the middle. Total mismatch. Kind of turned me off of Ward.
Ohio State Guard Pat Elfein will be a highly rated guard come next draft.
We have grown silent on Mississipi State Defensive Tackle Chris Jones. Is he not declaring?
Yay! Another passenger on the Chase Farris bandwagon. Go watch his draftbreakdown video against Notre Dame. You’ll see a lot more of that aggressive, downfield blocking and nasty streak. If we are looking for viable tackle prospects on day three we could do a lot worse.
Did ya watch last year’s bowl game against LA Tech?
Careful about making a deduction from one game.
OT Tyron Smith, to use one example, had awful tape.
“We have grown silent on Mississipi State Defensive Tackle Chris Jones. Is he not declaring?”
No. It’s just that he’s a 3rd year Junior so hasn’t featured in any of the all star games. Even heading into them, he was a day 2 prospect all the way. He’s just suffering from the topical buzz other DTs of his tier/caliber have generated by way of post season exhibition.
Remember most teams/scouts will tell you that Game Tape > all. And Seattle has transparently admitted that by this time of the year, their board is pretty much already firmed up. I wouldn’t worry about relative silence. If Seattle has their eye on him, they will have fixed their gaze quite some time ago.
Obviously, free agency is going to change the landscape of that we need heading into the draft. However, one guy I am curious about is Mario Williams. He could eliminate a ’16 need at Leo. He’s almost certainly going to be let go by Buffalo and turned 31 earlier today so there’s no way he’s going to get a long-term deal from anyone. His effort was questioned this past season because he wasn’t used to his strengths but this team has some serious leaders, in a positive way, on it. In no way is he a long-term fit, but he’s a better fit for winning a Super Bowl next year than pretty much anyone else we could get to play Leo (since Spence will be gone). Plus, when a guy like this doesn’t sign a long-term deal, there’s no long-term cap ramifications should he not work out.
For as much as I like some of our own guys, as does Carroll and Schneider, I can see why they are going to let our guys hit free agency. We’re an attractive market for any potential pass rushers who are a bit up there in age and want some work reasonably.
Good idea bobby, that would be a great pick up and at that time he would be considered a street free agent which wouldn’t affect our comp pick formula.
Jared Allen got 4 years $32 million so I would think Williams would get much more. Williams was also supposedly unhappy with being asked to do things outside of rushing the QB, like dropping into coverage. I think he could be a good pick up for someone, but it probably won’t be us.
The Giants desperately need someone to get to the QB, are a scheme fit and have money to spend.
Spence will go to Bucs at 9 and Lawson to Giants at 10. Both teams desperately need a pass rusher.
Not a bad call, I also think Ogbah is in the mix as well for these two teams.
Since I imagine we will only draft 1 WR this year and I don’t want to burn a high pick on one, the 1 WR I want is Michael Thomas from USM. The more I see on this guy he just really stands out as a sleeper. He is not ranked by most sites. I’d love to spend a 5th rd pick on him. He has good route running and if you watch the bowl game vs UW he showed great speed.
Just got wished a happy birthday on Facebook by a former student of mine. Long story – short – he works/coaches for the Gators and told me to keep an eye on Jonathan Bullard (after I told him my birthday wish of some offensive and defensive linemen for me from Florida and the SEC). He says he’s not so much a sack artist but is a great disruptor (i.e. run stuffer). Basically says that you can’t find a better guy and teammate. He even says he’d become a Seahawks fan if they drafted him:)
Then I came across this article about him (comparing him to our own Michael Bennett). Thought you all would be interested:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2611283-2016-nfl-draft-jonathan-bullard-could-be-next-michael-bennett
Obviously, he’d have to be our #26 pick and I think we’d go OL in that scenario, but fun to look at. Unlike Noah Spence and my wanting him – I have no clue how his background checks out, so when I say I want him… it really depends on the unknown of what we have to trust with the Seahawks research.
With Bullard, I know from someone I trust and worked with him about every day this past fall that he’s the real deal with respect to being that “gritty” guy that Pete Carroll loves. I don’t have to “trust” some website where they could be getting their information second hand from somewhere else that ultimately may or may not be true.
Happy Birthday bobbyk!
Happy bday man!
Thanks. Anyone know anything of Bullard? What I’ve seen in these last 12 hours is a lot like our own Bennett though. No fancy sack numbers, so amateur scouts will discount his ‘production’ like I did until I traded some messages with one of his coaches, but the guy is consistently more disruptive than guys who have bigger sack numbers. I am intrigued.
Knowing that, Atlanta could/should have interest.
I like him, but I don’t think he’s special.
Don’t really see him as a pass rusher either. He’s more of a 5-tech.
He’s relatively disruptive but doesn’t look like a ‘special’ player to me. The type I’d be very comfortable drafting in round three — but not round one.
Hate the Pro Bowl but have to love the Seahawks players and fun / passion they have for the game. Wilson, Bennet, Sherm and Locket etc played great and had a blast. Really is a special group of individuals on our team and I for one am really glad to be a fan of a team with this culture Pete has created.
Really hope they give Bennett a raise and extend him if anyone deserves it he is the guy not Kam. He needs his own TV show when he retires as well.
I only saw a few highlights, but did you see what RW can do with #1 WRs…. magic
They completely dominated this game.
RW was MVP
MosesBread led in sacks and got a TD
BWagz aka ‘ninja turtle’ led in tackles
Lockett was doin’ his thang on PRs
Sherm breakin’ up passes and tacklin’ RBs for no yards
Not a single team in the league had a group of guys like this.
And KJ and Baldwin were big time snubs.
Bennett even had his prerequisite off-sides penalty. Complete performance
MosesBread was defensive MVP.
They all said that they felt this game was the 1st one of 2016. If that’s the case, the entire NFC should be very afraid.
Let’s just remember that the Pro Bowl is the most vanilla football game ever played. Defense is only allowed to play base 4-3 with no schematic involvement at all. QBs who are worth anything will complete passes all over the field in this game, Pro Bowl WRs or not.
That said, Wilson did have some nice throws. But again, he might as well have just been running route tree drills.
This is what I love (and hate) about the 2016 draft for the Seahawks. They could go any of 4 or 5 directions in the draft with players. It is incredibly difficult to figure out where they will spend their draft resources and what they think are weaknesses on the team in 2016 (besides OL).
I’m not keen on drafting the 6th best OT at #26, but I would be perfectly fine drafting the top center or guard in the draft. Rob and I have bantered back and forth a bit that it is highly likely Seattle will draft 2 OL in first 4 picks. The problem for me is trying to figure out what other position groups they will target with the other two picks.
DL would be an obvious choice, but I also think they need another WR top 3 rounds. When RW had time and the WRs could get separation (example Lockett over the top) the offense exploded. So I guess OL, WR, OL, DL are my guess as to the first 4 picks. I also think Seattle will hold off on RBs until later in the draft or possibly try to go UDRFA route one more time, like Rawls in 2015.
I think DL, OLB and WR are in the mix for top-4 picks along with OL.
There are some possibilities for OLB and DL in rounds 2 & 3.
Of the 10 positions you can probably rule out 4 of them (qb,rb,safety,te) the earliest that they have selected a CB is round 4. DT they havent really used the draft for. That would leave lb,de,ol, and wr.
I’m not sure we can rule out RB. Right now it is Rawls coming off a significant injury, Michael who was a hairs breath away from a needing a real world job, and thats it. I don’t think it is particularly likely, but I wouldn’t be shocked.
The last I heard about Rawls, he had no tissue damage in his ankle, so when he comes back he’s really going to be 100% and there’s no indication he will be hampered at all.
Unrelated:
Having the ‘rising star’ quarterbacks in the probowl was pretty fun. It was a much more entertaining thing to watch than the disaster that was last years probowl.
Well… With elite receivers Russ is unstoppable. Unfortunately, there are not any elite receivers in this draft so let’s keep the discussion focused on this draft’s strength… The trenches.
Also, does anyone know if Chris Jones (Mississippi State) has declared?
Yes Chris Jones declared. Interesting guy, really flashed some game and was MIA in some.
I’m glad that you’ve seen the light regarding Sebastian Tretola, Rob. I watched several Arkansas games this year and was impressed with him each time–he absolutely abused a number of good to very good defensive linemen, and consistently created gaping holes for Alex Collins to dart through. Tretola was rather on the chubby side last year, but he slimmed down during the offseason (~20 lbs.) and entered his senior year a leaner, meaner machine. His short arms surprised me, but he has the mass, strength, and mobility to find success as a guard.
I paid less attention to his fellow lineman Denver Kirkland, but the two appear somewhat similar–wondering if you or someone else has an opinion on Kirkland.
A general remark: When i sum up the comments here in the past few weeks, we have the worst LG in all of football, our RG is not much better, our center was the guy they preferred Nowak over. our LT cant play a full season and our RT is an ex TE lacking in power/strength. And we are about to lose one or two of them.
On the other hand, without Lynch, Rawls and Graham, RW posted a record year behind that line and our offense is 4th in both yards and points. So, maybe those guys are not really that bad? or, maybe we we have found a way to get things done without a great OL?
They looked grteat against PIT, BAL, MIN in the regular season but collapsed against the RAMS and MIN, CAR in the playoffs. Could that had more to do with lack of RBs than OL play? would it work better with Rawls playing? Can the offense play like the 2nd half against CAR even with a crappy line?
Do we want to improve as a team? Sure we do. Is the OL our first priority? probably. Is it a must in the top of the draft versus other options? I do not know.
What if we will actually improve the offense more by drafting a WR1 (if Kearse leaves) at 26 and keep stocking the OL on day 3? Maybe a good blocking TE is needed? Maybe LB/DT/DE/CB is more crucial to a healthy structure with 7 defensive players already under 5M+ contracts?
They gotta fix the line.
But, you touch on a good point.
They don’t need to have an O-line like Dallas or Cincinnato to make this thing go. Even an above average line is good enough to get to the SB.
And I personally think you can a ‘weak link’ on the line. Nearly impossible to have 5 studs, and then turn around and pay them all,
This call works both inside and outside the OL. You can’t have 22 studs playing all positions and pay them all (both in cap and draft capital). You need to pick the groups and individuals that you are not going to invest in and work the best you can to either provide a “cheap” working solution or learn as a team to overcome those weak links.
I think that they proved last year that you can have a prolific offense behind a crappy line. NE did the same until they lost their starting WRs and TE.
I am not sure they will turn 180 degrees from it and invest half of their top draft capital (rounds 1-3) in the OL this year. They may give it another year and see if they can get it done with Glow, Sokoli, a cheat vet, day 3 picks and one top pick at most.
And…i think they do their best to keep Sweezy because he is the consensus toughest and nastiest player on this whole football club. You need a bully and he is as “bully” as they come.
You make a great point. There is a psychological effect known as the “recency bias” which I think is affecting the way many are evaluating Seattle’s draft needs with respect to the offensive line. I will write up a post with a bit more detail for the new mock draft thread later today.
The fact of the matter is the Seahawks have been winning in spite of it’s offensive line overall. However, we don’t need to go hog wild and replace every starter. If anyone is saying that, it’s only a small minority of people. The fans here seem pretty smart and many realize that while the OL is of utmost importance, they are also understanding to the fact that the team may pick a defender at #26. The only thing that matters is the team overall.
But make no mistake, there is a position that must be improved on the OL. Personally, I think we will see that improvement at left guard in the form of a player being drafted in the first two rounds. However, it could be Nick Martin improving the pivot. Or Shon Coleman added. Someone will be drafted early and I have a feeling that we may use two picks in the first three rounds on the OL because you take your weaknesses and try turning them into strengths.
I do think they’ll add 2 starters on the O-line through the draft, and take another guy on day 3 for depth and or a project.
Agree about Sweezy. I suspect they re-sign him,
I’m with you BobbyK. I’d be very happy if 2 of the first 4 picks are OL. We don’t need a dominant line but we need at least an average to slightly above average one. If we can get one of either Coleman or Martin in the first round and then another OL to play LG in the 3rd, those would be great steps in fixing the OL issues.
Our OL needs improvement in a BIG way…
LT: Okung has played well over his career, but has had too many nagging injuries. His impending FA will speak volumes about the market for LTs. IMO, Garry Gilliam is athletic enough to make the change to LT, but expectations should be tempered.
LG: Britt gradually got better at LG, but I think there’s still plenty of room for improvement. Glowinski/Poole/Sokoli were all drafted last year and I think 2/3 of those guys could be competing with Britt for the LG position if we do not draft another guy for LG competition.
C: Lewis did his job and had some good points. He also had some low points. Sokoli won’t be ready and I think the 2 BEST options for us would be if Mack were signed in FA or if Martin was drafted. With the drafting of Martin, the position could be locked up for 5-years on a moderately low contract and that’s that!
RG: Sweezy is a frustrating player… Has good moments and others are categorized as “WTF???”. I think Glowinski was drafted last season as the heir apparent and I personally think if Sweezy is not retained, Glowinski will be the 2016 starting RG.
RT: I personally think this is the position for a vet to fill IF Okung is not retained/Gilliam shifts to LT.
I really don’t see how they can go into the next season without new left and right guards. It was obvious that they are simply not up to the task of facing a playoff caliber defense. And as you brought up, they need a left tackle too. I suppose that will be the third spot they try Britt at (retch). Hopefully they will draft another tackle and work him into the starting lineup.
Speaking of Britt, I really don’t know what they can do with him. He has two more years to prove himself. Then whatever salary advantage will be gone. He will never be an elite blocker, and unlike many rookies he has been given multiple opportunities. It’s just sad.
Perhaps he goes back out to RT. I don’t recall him being horrible, well… not as horrible as LG.
Rob, if you are right about the WRs in this draft (none in the top 20 and Fuller, Coleman leading the pack), it should leave Laquon Treadwell available for us at 26.
His size, unbelievable catching radius, eager physical blocker, everything about him screams Dez Bryant with great character and leadership skills. A prototype WR1.
I thought he was a top 10 pick. If he is there, OL and DL will have to wait and Kearse cap is free to use elsewhere.
It won’t really happen but if it did – grab him and do not look back.
I like Treadwell but I sense with Baldwin, Lockett, Graham, Richardson and potentially Kearse they will stick to their guns and focus on the trenches. Over the years when Carroll has said they’re going to address an area — they do it. He made it clear what the priority was in his end-of-season press conference.
He did.
Still, with Treadwell you do not need to resign Kearse.
If we follow Hsu – 11M budget for the offense, we sign Sweezy and bring a vet.
Mantis and Treadwell for kearse? sign me on.
It’s nice to dream….
I wonder how the organization feels about Prich honestly. The guy just cant seem to stay on the field. they can sit here and tell the media how excited they are about a guy, but what are they really going to say? haha I think the hawks if the right guy falls to them they could go WR but that is unlikely as the trenched do need addressing but so does WR depth. we were down to 4 WRs for a couple games this year weren’t we?
I think the loss of Kearse could actually help the Seahawks. Without him, we have Doug Baldwin (a legit WR1), Lockett (could become a WR1) and Jimmy Graham. With how much the Seahawks pass the ball, they might become more efficient passing simply because those three players can get adequate targets in this run-focused offense. If our top three targets are as talented as we think they are, why do we need Kearse? And why should we pay Kearse if he is clearly the “fourth” target? The replacement will be PRich or Kevin Smith or Kasen Williams, who look primed to be able to handle their share of catches. I think re-signing Kearse is not only low priority but totally unnecessary.
Hey Rob, where can I go to see your 2-round mock? I noticed the one on cbs only had one round (at least on mobile). Looking forward to checking it out.
Er, not cbs, I mean here at SeahawksDraftBlog, of course…
It will be published later today.
Pete raved about the new guys from last year and said there’s a bunch of guys we don’t even know about, I’m hoping Terry Poole is one of them after a year of cable
Just imagine, a bunch of guys after a year of Cable manning the OL. Rawls will have the time of his life and RW better be ready to run for his life….lol
The only reason i want us to draft offensive linemen is that someone might have taught them to protect the passer because that chapter is missing from Cable’s curriculum.
So true Eran, though we can only hope for the best in a world of lies and failed promises. Russell Wilson is lost though so found in his own way. He will always continue to be more profound until his time is at an end. That will be his legacy.
Can’t be worse than four years of Sweezy.
There are 3 centers that will fit the Hawks needs, Martin, Allen and Westerman. The best OT that may be available, due to Med concerns and age, is Coleman. If he is available @ 26 the only club that would look at OT help after the Hawks would be Denver. Clady is in line with restructuring his deal which would lead them to think DE, GB also.
Another thing to consider is that Dallas may nab Wentz @ 4. There bigger need is RB & WR. They may be a trade partner for 26 and 98 in exchange for 34 and 67. That would leave you with 34, 56, 67 & 90 as your first four picks.
One player not mentioned recently that gives interior push that PC identified was a need is ” none other than ‘BB’ himself Hargrave”. The way he put Alexander on skates was impressive. I would take him @ 56. If Coleman did slip to 34 you run to the podium. With 67, you walk quickly and grab Allen, Martin would be long gone in the 1st.
With the 90 pick you take Jihad Ward. He’s still developing with room for growth in the weight room. Did I wakeup yet? One can only dream.
Hargrave’s a good player for sure, but again, he doesn’t have the arm length. This is one thing we’ve yet to see Seattle budge on.
I’m not so sure that’s entirely set in stone V12.
Obviously Seattle had great success with Clinton McDonald. He wasn’t particularly long and definitely was shorter/lighter. In fact outside of Bennett, he’s about the only productive 3T we’ve had since Pete’s been here with regard to pass rush.
Also, I do think Seattle had Aaron Donald on their board. It was a pipe dream to think he’d last that long. But even before the combine, they’d expressed their approval of him. Donald measured at 31 7/8 arm and a 77 3/8 wing at last year’s Senior Bowl.
Hargrave listed at 31 1/8 arm and 77 4/8 wing at the Shrine measurements (late add to senior so no measurements pending there).
While Seattle generally does have a prototype they’ve associated at the 3T — it’s a prototype that is far less rigid than some of their others. And their 3T prospects they’ve drafted have all been long term project prototypes. Seattle has a history of getting athlete types with high upside late in rounds.
Hargrave doesn’t appear to be that kind of 2+ year project type of player. I don’t necessarily see Seattle being as beholden to the measuring tape for this particular role. They love length wherever they can apply it. But this is one position they’ve indicated they’d deviate from the ideal.
I hope we don’t stick to the script on this point. Hargrave to my eye is the premier interior pass rush talent in this draft. He doesn’t have vines for arms, but his short powerful arms really make it near impossible for offensive linemen to get a secure hand on him. He just has that ability to slide off blocks, and the power/size to penetrate effectively and with eye opening consistency.
His short arms result in a lot of missed tackles. That much is true. But as a disruptive force, he looks like he has the gift.
The Seahawks are not completely driven by their ideals. I’m absolutely positive they never imagined drafting a 5-10 franchise quarterback. The key is — if they have a deficiency (whatever it is) they better make up for it by being sensational in other ways. In Russell Wilson’s case it was hand size, arm strength, mechanics, leadership, production — he was the complete package apart from the height. In Aaron Donald’s case — he stood out in college as a Warren Sapp destroyer destined for greatness despite the lack of arm length.
So if there’s a player out there that is a genuine first round talent, brilliant in every way apart from one small deficiency — they’re unlikely to automatically strike them off the board. What they aren’t going to do though is compromise if the player is just OK or only ‘pretty good’. If they don’t fit the ideal — they better be outstanding (like Wilson).
Well said, Rob. Exactly why I think Tretola could still be in play even if he’s got shorter arms. He’s special from what I’ve seen in both pass protection AND run blocking. He’s a stud (with shorter than ideal arms… kind of like Wilson having shorter height… lol). I’d love him in the second round.
I’ll drink to that.
You could add Whitehair to the list of possible C prospects. Perhaps Dahl as well, even though I wouldn’t have thought so before Senior Bowl.
The more I think about the DL, the more I think about how well Vernon Butler suits SEA. He’s truly one of the more unique prospects in the draft in terms of size/length/athleticism parameters. The importance of his outstanding gap-integrity to SEA’s scheme can’t be overstated.
I imagine him next to Big Rube, in ‘Bane’s spot, every bit as much the road block, but with better lateral agility to chase plays down the LOS and pocket pushing potential. Or I wonder if he could play 5T like Big Red, allowing SEA to replace Irvin’s OTTO with a more conventional SAM and a true LEO.
Butler and Rankins are both different DTs. They both move like big LBs.
Both Rankins & Butler are gone in the 1st Rd or high 2nd along with Martin. Getting 3 quality starters in 3 picks would be ideal. The premise is choose one that will enable you to gain 3 quality picks. After Coleman there are minimal options @ OT. After Martin there are several option @ center. Whitehair will be gone before 26 too.
‘BB’ Hargrave would fit perfectly with their scheme @ 3T & Rubin could slide to 5 on Run dns with Bane. There are plenty of options. Hargrave reminds me of a shorter Tez the way he’s so quickly in his man’s grill. If I remember, Tez didn’t have the longest limbs either. But, he couldn’t be stop because of his quickness & power. I think ‘lil Tez’ may have that same push.
If Allen is gone @ 67 @ go for Westerman. That results in 3 quality starters.
I think it’s interesting to point how Coleman tips the scale. Hard to imagine a potential LT last to 26, but if there are questions about his health, and concerns over his age, he could be the one.
I wouldn’t immediately write Hargrave off as an option, but in terms of getting toughness back on the team, what’s to say they don’t select Butler or Rankins if either lands to 26, and then double down in the middle portion of the draft for Hargrave? We feel pretty confident they like Rankins from the Pauline source. Hard to imagine they wouldn’t like the upside of Butler who looks to have a high level of raw bad#ss this front 4 could use. If they have the opportunity to land a player like that, and then have Hargrave rotating in on the nickel, that’s a lot of power and youth in the rotation.
Given the short squatty nature of Hargrave, and everyone loves to talk about his fantastic “bubble butt,” I wonder if he’s a 3tech or pass rushing nose.
How about Ryan Kelly in the 3rd-5th round? He was part of the Alabama offense that won a national championship.
Kelly may be the first center off the boards.
Yes he may be the first center – and we aren’t even discussing him. In fact there has been very little discussion on this board about Alabama players. Why not? Why not recruit from the best?
Some people feel that Alabama players are worn out, they have exceeded their mileage. Others want a champion bloodline.
Here is a mock draft I just completed on Fanspeak based on the CBS scouting. It is pre-Senior Bowl so there were players who dropped who will likely be drafted two to three rounds earlier, hence I got lucky on a couple of picks.
26: R1P26
OT TAYLOR DECKER
OHIO STATE
56: R2P25
C NICK MARTIN
NOTRE DAME
90: R3P27
DE SHAWN OAKMAN
BAYLOR
121: R4P26
WR LEONTE CARROO
RUTGERS
193: R7P4
DT JIHAD WARD
ILLINOIS
215: R7P26
OG JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
I’d say I had a nice draft. Obviously not all players are factored in and the comp picks have not been integrated yet. Two players who fell through the draft here were QB Vernon Adams and WR D’haquille Williams. I would make them PRIORITY UDFAs.
I wanted to take more interior pressure guys but I just had to secure the OLine needs as a priority. In my scenario I just think the Seahawks are going to shore up the DLine through free agency. I think they will re-sign Ahtyba Rubin and add at least two additional DTs. My eye is on Jaye Howard, but they could also look to find cheap replacements since they have been successful at that in the past. This can help them be the bullies on defense they want to be.
I could have had Eric Striker in the third round but I just feel like they should be able to work that position out with the current roster. I would rather take the upside of Oakman; he’s such a unique player and the ceiling is too enticing to pass up.
Somehow I was able to get Joe Dahl in the 7th round. That won’t happen but getting three offensive linemen in the draft would have to be considered successful, particularly if we don’t feel that they reached for a Justin Britt type.
The more I think about it and after watching Russ again in Pro Bowl. The #1 priority and by a wide margin should be to provide him with an above average OL in pass protection. I don’t care what it takes in the draft or free agency. It has to be priority #1.
I know the agreement is we won an SB with a below average OL. The thing is things have changed. PI is called a lot closer and we don’t have the defense we had then. It is still a great D but it is not one of the all time great units like when we won SB.
Think about ever loss in the last 2 years. In eve one of those games Russ was running for his life. Even better try and think of a game we lost when we was not running for his life.
Bottom line is that if our OL gives Russ time we have a solid passing game, that in turn helps the run game and we score a ton of points. When we score a ton of points our D is still one of the better units in the league and we should win almost all games.
I think that will be the focus of PC/JS based on what they have said this off season and I really hope we don’t see Britt, Sweezy or Lewis on the interior of our line in 2016. Either draft quality or pick up some vet free agents. Select the 5 early in camp and get them ready for week #1
Somewhat unrelated: Here’s a really good article over at HawkBlogger about the possibilities in a scenario where we trade Kam. I don’t necessarily agree that this will happen. The idea is so speculative and we know that the Seahawks still have all the leverage. But some of the options in this article look pretty enticing.
http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/02/10-kam-chancellor-trade-possibilities.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HawkBlogger+%28Hawk+Blogger%29
The #1 option with the Saints is intriguing. I’d poke around and see if CJ Spiller could be included in that deal at a reasonable price, he was pretty well wasted last year for the Saints but could be a great 3rd down/pass catching option with the ability to step into the starting role if Rawls’ recovery gets into the season.
I like Brian a lot — but I think he’s just put together the best argument for why Kam Chancellor isn’t going anywhere with that piece.
I mean, do people honestly see the Seahawks swapping their defensive heart beat for Jahri Evans — a guard that is due over $8m in 2016 and turns 33 before the season begins? It’s not even worth considering as even a minor possibility.
When I was doing my mock draft yesterday I battled with giving Washington a center in round one to replace the guy Brian has the Seahawks potentially acquiring in this piece.
Then there’s the Tevin Coleman swap (I mean…) and Travis Frederick or Matt Kalil (one extreme to the other). Overall not a single scenario listed makes a jot of sense.
I totally agree Rob, No scenario makes any sense at all.
Everything involving Kam stopped making any sense on the day he dropped the bomb not reporting for training camp.
It does not make sense that i cant find one Kam hit during the whole season i would add to Kam’s greatest hits tape.
My most favorite Seahawk player and I really hope they cut or trade him….makes zero sense…but i do…
It’s personal, it’s childish, it makes no sense but, I WANT HIM GONE.
Well, I hate to say it — but I agree with the last sentence.
The Seahawks don’t have a chance to beat Minnesota without Kam’s fumble. They lose to Detroit and possibly implode without Kam’s sensational play on the goal line. The hold out was ugly but it’s done now. People can linger on the coverage issues but he’s always had that side of his game.
He will be back next year and I bet anything you’ll see the hits return.
No need to look at bizarre trade scenarios and give them any credibility.
I know you are 100% right Rob, but i can’t help.
I have been fighting it all year long.
I am a fan, i do not have to make the cerebral calls. I can go with my heart. My heart does not want Kam in blue and green.
My mind hopes he comes back after a great off season and plays his best football ever. My heart wants him to do it elsewhere. Dumb….
I go back and forth on it. During the season, I thought there was no way they trade Kam. Mostly, the words from Pete seemed to feed that.
However, Brian HawkBlogger is making some points. It also strikes me that he seems fairly connected with this team. I don’t think he’s writing necessarily out of wild speculation, or his own desire to see the team move on from him. I think he may have a genuine vibe he could be gone, and is looking at scenarios at what the Seahawks might get in return. Adding a quality veteran lineman, and a pick seems like the obvious direction to go.
Also, what we see as their defensive heartbeat, and what they see could be different things. IMO, I thought the 2015 defensive heartbeat was Michael Bennett doing everything and anything they asked him to do on a relatively thin D-line, who didn’t hold out even though he knew he was clearly being unpaid for what they were asking him to do, and was mightily unhappy over it. He showed up, he busted tail, and he did it on a bum toe, which I can only imagine the pain that must felt like leaning into and fighting through OLinemen outweighing him by 30 or 50 pounds, or more.
Let me ask you this. Would you have said the same thing about Jimmy Graham for Max Unger?
Also, if Kam’s unhappiness cannot be solved reasonably, parting ways is something Pete and Johm can consider because it may have an effect on his play and the locker room as a whole.
I was high on Graham for Unger (pass catching TE with all-pro ability for a solid but injury proned C), but I was also expecting they would either add a center in FA or the draft. When that didn’t happen, the overwhelming feeling of dread sank in.
I still feel pretty positive on JG. I thought he was finding his groove from the Carolina on until he got injured. Never say never, but I think it’s pretty unlikely they trade him after playing half a season, and trading a first round pick for him.
I still see a good case for hanging onto Chancellor for that matter, as well, BTW. Just prepping myself for a possible chance he could be dealt. HawkBlogger seems active on the notion. Right after the Carolina loss, I think it was Greg Bell (not 100% sure, but one of the local beat writers) on the radio who also felt Kam had burnt a lot of bridges with the team, and is likely gone. That’s stuck in my mind. Sherman also stated over the last month that the two irreplaceable players on the defense are Earl and Mike B. If they don’t have them in the line up, their defense doesn’t function were pretty much his words. I wouldn’t say he’s likely gone, but I wouldn’t necessarily say with any confidence that he isn’t eventually dealt.
I suspect he is writing out of wild speculation though — none of those trades are even remotely likely to happen.
Yeah, could be.
They may not have a choice, though. Gun to your head, if put in the same position you were in with Kam last year (i.e., you either pay him more money or he doesn’t show up), what do you do? Because unless Kam is suddenly happier now, that’s where we could be pretty soon.
The trade / cut Kam suggestions (fantasies) are striking me as now bordering on pathological. He’s not going anywhere. And what happened needs to put behind us for both his and the team’s sake. The front office has signaled and stated over and over again that they want things to be good with Kam. And for him to be with the team for a ‘long time’ (which are Pete’s exact words).
So you would re-do his deal early and pay him more?
A name we might consider revisiting here at some point:
D’haquille Williams
Red flag candidate who has not been mentioned in what seems an age here. Seattle very clearly is not as put off by red flag issues as others. Whether Clark last year, or the presumed interest in DGB. Obviously there are plenty of players kicked off of teams that thrive in the NFL (Marcus Peters?).
Physically he flashed dominance in 2014. His character issues probably aren’t even in the same range as Peters last year. He’s a player that should be well remembered here at SDB.
I am just out loud curious if maybe we’re looking at stealing value in the day 3 range with Williams?
UDFA — maybe worth a look.
Also Mike Williams from Clemson.
So lucky to have this amazing Seahawks website with new reads every day. You’re the man Rob.
Thanks man
I totally get the “he’s the heartbeat of the team” – but that’s also why any noise or disruption from Kam is going to be even worse for this team. IF they can work out an amicable solution, I’d love to keep Kam. If the offseason comes down to another threat of a hold out, I think trading Kam is a better proposition than not trading. Absolutely the Seahawks could hold the line and let him sit out and rack up fines, but how much turmoil does that cause the rest of the team? At some point you have to do right by the team and organization. I’ve also noticed that Pete’s comments seem much more positive towards Kam than Schneider’s. I don’t think this situation is over. I also agree that none of the trade options are that attractive, but are they more attractive than Kam causing internal turmoil and setting the team back? Yes, in my opinion, but only if it comes down to that. It is still surreal that this is even a conversation.
“IF they can work out an amicable solution, I’d love to keep Kam” – My mind tells me that it would be best but…
I do not want him on this team. I just don’t. My mind tried to talk me into it all season long. He saved that win against DET and I could not cheer him…
I WANT HIM GONE….childish….petty….but i do.
It’s not that they’re necessarily unattractive (they are hideous IMO, but…). It’s that they’re incredibly unrealistic. If the Seahawks trade Kam Chancellor for a 33-year-old guard earning $8m… I’ll swim the Atlantic.
All this piece is doing is dredging up a topic we have no reason to waste any time on.
Agreed! Kam’s not going anywhere. We need to get off his back. Doesn’t anyone realize the punishment he goes thru dishing out punishment from each hit he makes? He also sent a little message as to how damaging this game is to your body. Those were just his fingers. Dare to imagine how the other parts of his body may fare.
Not giving excuses. But, this just may be an injury filled season for him. This elongated offseason may be the best thing for him.
Let’s say “you will swim Lake Washington in January”…. that would be tough enough.
The cap hit and dead money and damage to the locker-room…. no friggin way Kam gets traded.
Rob, what are your thoughts about this kid from the University of Montana. Tyrone? He was the 2015 FCS defensive player/lineman of the year. Good size and decent speed. He had a ton of sacks this past year. In fact all of his stats were impressive. Would he be a candidate for the speedy edge rusher the Hawks could be looking for?
Not seen much of him. Will add him to my list to look at.