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Having not listened yet and wanting to offer my opinion on Jamaal:
I think that Seahawks would be most wise to wait until he has the chance to reach Free Agency, to put a transition tag on him, and to let him attempt to get the contract that he’s after – while being entirely ready to match it. Unless he’s willing to settle close to $12-$14 M/year.
He clearly does not deserve to be paid as a leading edge rusher, when so much of his production requires five rushers, and when he’s unable to provide the same level of run support (though he’s very, very good) as a good DE.
He clearly deserves to be paid in accordance with the value that he provides to the team. And he provides real value in run defense and pass rush.
Perhaps the question is about how much humility that he has. Does he understand the value that he actually provides, or does he have an inflated opinion of his value? This is part of what we’ll learn.
He clearly deserves to be paid as a player who provides good value to a defense in run support and in the blitz, while hopefully providing better coverage in the next few years after getting comfortable with scheme.
Listening now — I so very much like what you guys are saying. Rob, very good points about his actual leverage – I didn’t think about that.
They cant put the transition tag on him because he isnt a free agent.
I was talking about waiting out the rest of his contract and then moving to the tag.
It’s funny — both sides lack leverage in their own ways. Maybe that creates a situation for compromise, we’ll see. I just don’t think JA is the type to cave.
Get ready to hear the word “respect” about a million times this off-season if they try to negotiate…
Yeah, that does get old. It is a two-way street also.
Oh god… you’re right…
Really good stuff. If you don’t have elite ball hawking skills in todays NFL as a safety how much value do you really provide versus a guy like Patrick Mahomes. Even though he will never take it he is worth about $10mil a year and not a cent more
My favorite quote…. “are you going to hit a mother***ker in the face over and over and over”…. bring on that Chancellor sh**. We all miss that, the closest thing we have to that is Diggs and that’s not enough hungry dogs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1XKjzq1_aM
That one never gets old…lol
The greatest Seahawk of all time
Over and over and over. So much yes!!!!
I miss those days
Marshawn was and is the greatest ever…cannot watch enough!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPuxDREbxMU
Me too
We can never replace the Bay Areas finest but Najee Jarris looks like our best shot because we aren’t getting Derrick Henry
A RB name to keep in your back pocket: Chris Evans, Michigan.
Has barely played in 2 years bc kicked off team in 2019, only 16 rushing teams in a truncated 2020. But 5-10, 219, right in that Marshawn wheelhouse. Not super sudden in his 2018 film, but looked like he made subtle moves to get free.
Showed very good hands as a pass catcher.
As far as I can tell, this was all non-guaranteed money that would open up when Brees retired anyway. However they want Brees to retire after June 1st so his guaranteed money is split between 2021 and 2022. But they want the money off the books before June 1st
The first in a long series of moves lol
Only $70m more to go…lol
Rob, love the analysis. Question for you and rest of SDB. In a world where we extend Adams, what could the off-season look like in terms of draft picks and cap space? I feel like this outcome is more likely than not.
I think if they sign him you’re looking at 0 significant upgrades anywhere. We saw the Rams improve; I’m guessing 49rs and AZ will too. Keeping Adams will likely at best keep us as is, minus a few other starters. Ironically keeping him likely means we likely miss out out a few players of much greater need. It was such a horrible trade. I didn’t understand or like it when we made the trade, and just don’t see the benefit of keeping him. That’s even if he took 16M per year. Atleast if he took 15-16 i would feel like he wants tonbe here though.
Well, in that situation you’re not getting back into the draft as a starter. And you face the prospect of having to trade Wagner or cut Dunlap. Because I doubt restructures alone will create enough cap space.
The Seahawks have to be aggressive to create resource in some way this off-season.
Nice podcast guys. Great breakdown of the situation and options available. Logically it would seem best to move on from Adams and Wagner. I think if Seattle got a high 2 and another pick for Wagner they might do it. A 4th would be tough. I think Cha posted the next two seasons cap hit the team acquiring Bobby would be. For a few teams i could see him being an attractive add. Adams i think might have to be a sign and trade. Otherwise I’m unsure we can net anything more than a 1st at best. I know I’d take a 1st and a 3rd and feel good. Like Rob said, i too hope the pick a number and stick to it. I also hope they offer it soon so they can prepare to trade him ASAP. They can’t afford to wait things out like they did last year with Adams. They did to make their tough decisions early this year and have a plan. Preferably and 2nd as well as a 3rd for fall backs. I don’t think i can take another 2020 offseason. I also feel extending Dunlap, Reed, lockett and Brown are important. Again just hope they continue to make decisions quickly this year. Heck made Rob’s year. He asked for us to give JS a contract soon if they wanted him. Then go outside for an OC and get it done early. Two done. Hoping they give Rob the Trifecta and move on from Adams.
I meant can’t afford to wait things out like they did with Clowney. Lol obviously not Adams.
An edit function here would be a Godsend, especially for a terrible typist like myself.
Lol. You’re definitely not the only one.
LJ was listed at 6,2 283lbs as rookie.
He is now at 291. Thats much more of DT weight than DE, especially with that height. He was 3T on 3rd passing downs but maybe they will move him completely inside
He’s not a full time defensive tackle.
He’s a mediocre inside out rusher.
Any thoughts on Baron Browning (LB, Ohio St)? Could he be a draft target if they trade Bobby?
I’ve written a lot about him. He’s a top-35 pick for me.
They drafted Jordyn Brooks a year ago. They don’t need to spend another high pick on a LB. It’s time to push resources to other positions.
This is a prospect that may be a good fit at center. Similar to Unger, his arm length is under that 33″ threshold for OL prospects, but acceptable for centers, ala Humphreys and the like. It would be great if you could arrange an interview with him similar to the one you had with Lewis.
He seems to be a really great young man. It would great to seeing them working side by side, or opposite @ LG. He can do both and is very athletic for his size, as he shows in this interview: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hTn5qDS1m8k
He was very impressive at the Senior Bowl and really brought some attitude to the 1v1’s.
I stand corrected. He actually has 34″ arms: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_TZ7JjPPL0g
Actually it is 32 5/8:
https://twitter.com/seniorbowl/status/1354075364235091972/photo/1
Yes, I saw that too. I guess the coach’s description of 34″ arms, when talking to Nagy, was alluding to his 82 5/8″ wingspan that is greater than most guards and tackles, much taller than he is. He’s blessed with natural leverage that way.
As you can see, I’m really high on him becoming a Seahawk. I have them trading 56 for 66 & 105 with NYJ. Then taking Moore with 105, if he’s still there.
I will say though that I rewatched the Senior Bowl game this weekend and he struggled mightily. Good in 1v1’s but he was so flat footed in the game and gave up quite a lot of pressure.
Thanks Rob and Robbie for the podcast. I really appreciate hearing the back and forth and hearing when you guys have different but well-considered opinions.
Thanks Sean
I don’t always listen to the podcast format but I really enjoyed Rob’s passion and logic in this one. “Something’s got to give”. Indeed. Let’s just hope it gives sometime before free agency and the draft this time!
Topic for discussion: for years the Seahawks sold themselves as the ones who would always “take care of their guys”, the polar opposite of the Patriots, who were notoriously cold employers who just seemed to discard their players whenever most convenient. (Maybe it worked because of Belichick and Brady and winning so much, but that’s a topic for another day). Anyways, the “do right by your guys” is fine when those guys are still in their prime, but we never really thought about the right way to end it when the time would come.
My question is: how can it really end well in the NFL? Is any team expected to overpay guys who are underperforming or not having as much impact as their salary calls for just to say “thank you” for past services?
Rob’s kind of right: it’s never really pretty. Earl, Sherm, even Lynch, a living legend in Seattle, had his beef with the front office and had to semi-retire himself then ask for a trade.
If you want to speculate even further: how could the league make there be an option where these long-time franchise players can fade off into the sunset with their own team in a way that doesn’t hurt the cap so bad?
Is there any “respectful” way to send Bobby and KJ off at this point? Or do you just have to point them to the inevitable: in the “Not For Long” league, it’s just a business decision. No hard feelings. Bye.
I think this is sadly being missed by many of the radio shows, articles and tweets surrounding the off-season. I keep seeing opinions like — ‘they have to keep KJ Wright’ or ‘they can’t get rid of Wagner’ or ‘there’s no way they are trading Jamal Adams’.
Well how exactly are they going to proceed this off-season then? Because you have to do something. You can only achieve so much through restructuring. We should be having a proper conversation about all of the options, not dismissing things that ‘won’t happen’ (when they might have to be considered).
The way I see it — there’s no ideal ending in the NFL. It’s very rare that people get to do what Ray Lewis or Peyton Manning did.
The priority has to be constructing a blueprint to win the Super Bowl, not being ‘loyal’ to your guys.
Personally, as much I (like any Seahawks fan) truly appreciates Bobby and KJ — Bobby isn’t worth $17m this year and $20m next year to the Seahawks given they have to, IMO, shift resources from LB/S to the trenches, and at the moment they have -$2m to spend so SAM LB shouldn’t be a priority.
So I would prefer a Belihick approach. Move on and get what you can and have no sacred cow.
Agree on all points. I just have a hard time coming to any other conclusion about what the off-season plan should look like as a whole.
And here’s the thing: if Bobby gets traded, I don’t think any of the young guys are going to look at it and say: “oh, the Seahawks kicked him to the curb”, etc. They drafted him, made him a mainstay of their defense, developed him into a HOF player, gave him two contracts at the top of the LB market. The truth is, they already have “taken care of him” and much more.
I get that these are all ultra-competitive players and no one likes to admit they may have lost a step or should take a pay cut. Many of them have been using “disrespect” as fuel since they were (or weren’t…) drafted. So if at the end of their careers they want to frame it as “lack of respect” because they “are not done yet”, then that’s their prerogative. But the Seahawks also have theirs in that they can and should say “thanks for a great ride” and move on.
Gimme gimme.
https://twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1358045655747485700
Got to get back in this draft
Great podcast as usual and normally I agree with everything Rob says but 1 thing I just don’t agree on is Sherman wanting to come to Seattle I just don’t think he would want to come back just because this is where he started his career or because he wants to finish what he started cause it’s his team, I think Sherman’s biggest priority is money and he’s not getting the money he will want in Seattle
I’m telling you now, Sherman’s biggest priority is NOT money.
He went to San Fran for a reason. And his next, likely final move, will be just as calculated.
Did a little exercise scenario on Spotrac roster manager. Trade Bobby and Jamal, extend Reed, Dunlap, and Lockett. All of the sudden, you’ve got nearly $50m to play with.
https://image.prntscr.com/image/Vr1pW8gCROWrxjOIlY_IEA.jpg
Obviously, you have to account for top 51, draft picks, retaining our own FA, etc. but still, it’s not that hard to create significant space and invest where they should.
One other note: Bobby’s contract was clearly structured with a potential out in 2021. Just look on Spotrac. The plan was likely all along to draft Brooks, get him up to speed with a year behind Bobby, and then plug him in and move on. I don’t think they make the Brooks pick OR the Adams trade without this firmly in mind and knowing they will recoup some cap space and draft stock for Bobby. So anyone stuck on “they’ll never trade Bobby” I think had better get ready for the truth…
Give me $50m and the draft picks.
And do a better job than a year ago.
Frankly, that’s where I’m stuck.
Trade Bobby for a draft pick and free up that $9m.
Good: Hit on a Damien Lewis with that pick and use that $9m on a real live impact player like Dunlap, maybe even two with some cap creativity.
Bad: Use the pick to trade up for an injured player and use that $9m on 3 wingnuts that only block your young players from developing.
If you trade Wagner and go the “Bad” route you’ve only compounded your problem.
But can we trust them to go the “Good” route?
Not sure but the alternative is more of the same and that’s about as enticing as a kick in the balls.
Either way there’s risk. I think I’d prefer to take the risk on restructuring and pushing a bunch of money in 2022 than trading Wagner.
Adams? I’ll chip in for his plane ticket.
Hard pass on the credit card approach.
That’s simply a fast track to major problems down the line.
They literally traded for a MLB in round one a year ago. They’ve made their bed as far as I’m concerned.
I’m comfortable taking the risk.
Brooks can take KJ’s spot in 2021 and Wagner’s in 2022.
$140m of cap room in 2022 + $16m of Wagner room is well enough to absorb the risk the extensions doesn’t provide expected value. 2023 will have a healthy cap increase when the new TV revenue deals are signed.
I just don’t think the risk is worth it for essentially one more season of Bobby Wagner for $17m.
2020 Starting Defensive Lineup and our Off-season plan:
Defensive Backs/Safety: Dunbar, Griffen, Diggs, and J Adams – Projecting losing 3 out of 4
Linebackers: Irvin, Wagner, and Wright – Projecting losing all 3
D-Line: Collier, Mayowa, Reed, and Ford – Projecting losing half or more
I agree in the philosophy of spending money on Offense and going cheap on Defense but the reality is daunting. Diggs, Reed, and maybe Ford all that’s left to go against the elite offenses and offensive coaches in our Division. Can’t rely on just draft picks- need some real smart veteran FA adds to balance out the youngsters if this has a real chance of working. Sherman maybe one but need to study the FA list further to see what is possible. Can PC & Norton handle this type of total rebuild? May need to consider a young, hungry DC to lead this “band of BAMF youngsters)?
I think the key to this whole plan is to get Wilson on the same page with new OC ASAP-we will need to score 30+ to stay in the game until we rebuild the gutted D side of the ball. Could be an exciting off season for sure.
Yes, they paid too much for Jamal Adams. But I’m glad they did! It was a desperate gamble to generate some pass rush, which they may have thought was the last piece they needed to go for it all this year. I’m happy that they are thinking of winning now.
In retrospect, it’s clear we paid too much. I agree with Rob S. that the Seahawks are perfectly willing to ignore sunk cost and make the best decision looking forward. I agree that the Hawks should not pay Adams $20M. My hope is that they can get him to play out the last year of his contract. My fear is that he will hold out.
I love Bobby. The Seahawks should absolutely trade him. He is way overpaid. I don’t see him taking a big pay cut.
I actually don’t think they signed Adams as a pass-rush fix. Yes, he gets sacks – and I think he’s a well above-average blitzer – but if you committed to blitzing a variety of DBs/LBs, you could likely juice up sack numbers to get near his 9.5, albeit spread among several players.
My take is that they signed him as a hoped-for attitude adjuster for the defense. Our defense w/out Clowney going into ’20 felt like it would really lack spark – and PC/JS believed Adams would bring that to the whole unit.
Here’s a question: let’s assume we get Adams for Budda Baker money (around $15M/yr) b/c there isn’t a market at $18M+; if it’s a keep one or the other question – would you rather hang onto Adams or Bobby going into ’21 and beyond?
I agree, it’s time to cut losses on Adams. Send him to Miami for #18 and their 2022 3rd rounder and then trade down. And as much as I’d hate to see Bobby go, his production does not justify his salary. If the Seahawks want to be the bully again, then those resources need to be redistributed to the BAMFs in the trenches. Use the 4th rounder you get in return on a CB to groom under Sherm. Robbie, what microphone are you using?
Sounds like a good plan to me
Hypothetical: if trading Adams to Miami, would you all rather have #18 (287 pts.) or #36 + #50 (281 pts.)? I know we would be glad to take either package, just curious what people would prefer.
#18 could be Najee Harris, or trade down to the end of R1 and fill out mid rounds. Only problem is, I’m not sure you will get great value since the true blue-chip talent will be gone anyways by #18.
#36 could be Javonte Williams and #50 Quinn Meinerz, for example.
P.S. Mike looks like maybe a Blue Yeti Pro.
Hypothetical;
I’d love to see if we could squeeze out 18 & 81 from Miami. To me that’s best case scenario.
If we can only have one of your two options i would guess Seahawks take pick 18 and try to trade down a couple times.
It’s a blue Yeti x pro. I really really like it. Helps hide the kids voices upstairs (for the most part)