No, the Seahawks won’t draft a corner at #18

We know the Seahawks have a very strict policy on cornerback arm length. They’ve never drafted a corner with sub-32 inch arms. It’s a golden rule, alongside height.

Seattle’s defensive scheme allows them to utilise a certain profile at corner. Michael Lombardi spelled it out a year ago during the 2017 Richard Sherman saga:

“…they put all that money in the corner position in a defense where, we feel you can draft players that fit that scheme.

…the scheme in Seattle allows you to find corners especially size/speed corners of which there’s a bundle of them in this draft that can play deep third of the defense, they’ll tackle and they can play within the scheme.”

Walter Thurmond, Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Byron Maxwell, DeShawn Shead, Shaquill Griffin.

All players drafted in the mid/late rounds or signed as cheap free agents. The Pete Carroll era has virtually been defined by excellent secondary play and yet they’ve only spent one high pick on the unit (Earl Thomas, 2010).

Fit the body type into your scheme and coach them up. They haven’t drafted a corner before the third round for a reason. It’s just not necessary within this scheme.

The Seahawks constantly get mocked with Iowa’s Josh Jackson at #18. He has 31 1/8 inch arms. Well below the 32 inch threshold.

Are they really going to buck a consistent trend in terms of draft policy and physical requirements to grab Jackson?

With so many areas of the team suddenly needing to be addressed, are they now going to spend a first round pick on the one position they’ve been able to identify day three talent?

The answer is almost certainly ‘no’.

The Seahawks will identify the cornerbacks that fit their profile and they’ll draft, develop and plug in. As per usual.

And let’s be clear — arm length does matter. 100% of multiple first team All-Pro cornerbacks drafted since 1998 have had +32 inch arms.

Here’s the arm length and wingspan data for some of Seattle’s draftees, acquisitions and starters since 2010:

Richard Sherman — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Brandon Browner — 33 (arms) 80 (wingspan)
Byron Maxwell — 33.5 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Jeremy Lane — 32.5 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Tye Smith — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
DeAndre Elliott — 32 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Neiko Thorpe — 31 3/4 (arms) 78 1/2 (wingspan)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste — 32 3/8 (arms) 78 3/8 (wingspan)
Pierre Desir — 33 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Shaquill Griffin — 32.5 (arms) 74 3/4 (wingspan)

The average NFL cornerback has a wingspan of 75.5 inches (31.5 inch arm length). As you can see above, the Seahawks have sought players with above average length with the only exception being Shaquill Griffin.

So what about the 2018 draft class?

The following players have an above average wingspan:

Isaiah Oliver: 33 1/2 arms — 80 5/8 wingspan
Carlton Davis: 32 3/4 arms — 79 3/8 wingspan
Isaac Yiadom: 32 1/4 arms — 75 3/4 wingspan
Holton Hill: 32 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan
Quenton Meeks: 31 3/4 arms — 76 1/4 wingspan
Tarvarus McFadden: 32 1/2 arms — 78 wingspan
Levi Wallace: 32 3/4 arms — 77 3/8 wingspan
Christian Campbell: 33 1/2 arms — 79 wingspan
Davontae Harris: 31 1/8 arms — 75 3/4 wingspan
Arrion Springs: 31 3/4 arms — 75 7/8 wingspan
D’Montre Wade: 32 3/8 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan
Andre Chachere: 31 3/8 arms — 75 3/4 wingspan
Brandon Facyson: 32 5/8 arms — 78 1/2 wingspan
Kamrin Moore: 31 3/8 arms — 75 7/8 wingspan
Chandon Sullivan: 32 3/8 arms — 76 3/4 wingspan
Jordan Thomas: 32 arms — 77 3/4 wingspan
Tremon Smith: 31 3/8 arms — 76 1/8 wingspan
Charvarius Ward: 32 1/4 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan
Keion Crossen: 30 1/8 arms — 75 7/8 wingspan
JaMarcus King: 32 7/8 arms — 78 3/8 wingspan
Aaron Davis: 30 3/4 arms — 76 1/8 wingspan
Donovan Olumba: 32 7/8 arms — 77 7/8 wingspan
Malik Reaves: 32 1/2 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan
Chris Jones: 32 3/4 arms — 78 1/4 wingspan
Jaylen Dunlap: 31 1/2 arms — 76 3/8 wingspan

We can rule out a few names here. The Seahawks might be willing to overlook a player with 31 3/4 inch arms, especially if they have an above average wingspan. They’re unlikely to take someone with 30-31 inch arms, however. So that leaves us with this revised list:

Isaiah Oliver: 33 1/2 arms — 80 5/8 wingspan
Carlton Davis: 32 3/4 arms — 79 3/8 wingspan
Isaac Yiadom: 32 1/4 arms — 75 3/4 wingspan
Holton Hill: 32 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan
Quenton Meeks: 31 3/4 arms — 76 1/4 wingspan
Tarvarus McFadden: 32 1/2 arms — 78 wingspan
Levi Wallace: 32 3/4 arms — 77 3/8 wingspan
Christian Campbell: 33 1/2 arms — 79 wingspan
Arrion Springs: 31 3/4 arms — 75 7/8 wingspan
D’Montre Wade: 32 3/8 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan
Brandon Facyson: 32 5/8 arms — 78 1/2 wingspan
Chandon Sullivan: 32 3/8 arms — 76 3/4 wingspan
Jordan Thomas: 32 arms — 77 3/4 wingspan
Charvarius Ward: 32 1/4 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan
JaMarcus King: 32 7/8 arms — 78 3/8 wingspan
Donovan Olumba: 32 7/8 arms — 77 7/8 wingspan
Malik Reaves: 32 1/2 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan
Chris Jones: 32 3/4 arms — 78 1/4 wingspan

We also know from their willingness to draft Shaquill Griffin, that they’ll draft a cornerback with a below average wingspan if they still have 32 inch arms.

That brings a player like San Diego State’s Kameron Kelly into play (32 inch arms — 74 5/8 wingspan).

Seattle will likely draft a cornerback at some point, even if they eventually re-sign Byron Maxwell. There’s a pretty good chance the player(s) will be on the list above (including Kameron Kelly).

Most of the listed cornerbacks will likely be available in round four or later. The only exceptions are Isaiah Oliver and Carlton Davis. They’re both talented prospects with plenty of upside. Are they significantly better than Isaac Yiadom, Kameron Kelly or Quenton Meeks? Arguably not.

There’s not a convincing argument to suggest the Seahawks will go corner early.

You can’t be too critical of national mock drafts. They see Sherman depart, Maxwell remain unsigned and cornerback is a need. Followers of the Seahawks know, however, that they have a way of addressing this position. And it doesn’t include a top-20 pick with short arms.

They’ll likely do what they always do. Draft their ‘type’ of corner and fit them into the scheme.

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  1. nichansen01

    I don’t like slow DBs. Kameron Kelly is SLOW.

    • Rob Staton

      Richard Sherman — 4.56 forty
      Kameron Kelly — 4.55 forty


      • Rowdy

        as important as the 40 is, it’s not all telling. when you put on pads it will slow you down, some players way more then others. when it comes to defense reaction time is just as important and great reaction time can make up a lot speed deficiencies.

        • BobbyK

          This play right here shows how ridiculous it is to judge players soley on their 40-yard dash times in underwear.

          We all know ET is fast and he plays the ball fast. But watch Sherman and his football speed in pads in the link below. I remember Jerry Rice and his slow 40 time regularly running away from most CBs who were faster in their underwear. He was the definition of a guy with below average speed in underwear, but a fast player in pads on the field.

          If there was a way to determine football speed vs. the 40-yard dash in underwear – some team would offer us a lot of money.

          • JimQ

            I think the 40 is overrated because it requires significant training, especially the start. Many draft participants train at sports facilities for a couple of months prior to the draft, but they aren’t usually track guys with years of experience in how to best run the 40, so what is actually accomplished with this test? Playing speed vs: straight line speed in shorts are two pretty different things.

  2. RWIII

    Quenton Meeks. I was just reading about Meeks over on Field gulls. He seems like an ideal mid-round pick.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Good read and excellent scouting fodder, Rob.

      Who are you liking at CB from that list?

      • Rob Staton

        Kelly, Meeks, Yiadom, Facyson, Thomas are players I’ve looked at and been intrigued by. Levi Wallace had a good combine workout I thought.

        • Kenny Sloth

          Is Holton Hill on your list to look at? I’m always looking at someone else when I watch Texas

          That Texas defense has a lot of players in this draft. Really like Poona Ford for us.

          • Rob Staton

            Yes, Hill also on the list. Not someone I’ve studied as much as the others though.

            • Omar

              What round do you think Holton Hill will go in?

              • Rob Staton


                • D-OZ

                  He has been mocked 2nd and 3rd. I really don’t see 2nd but I do 3rd. There are some questions he has to answer to on his late season team suspension.

                  • TTownHawk

                    If he is going in the 3rd, let someone else take him. I don’t want Seattle taking any risks on players with character concerns in the earlier rounds. After Rd4 I’m good with it.

            • peter

              Not a lot with him defending passes. I’m a big believer in his run support. His ability to mix it up at the line of scrimmage or broken plays and special teams spark has me intrigued.

              Love articles like this rob. Two weeks to go and now I’m going to watch ton of cb videos.

          • Volume12

            Hill has some red flags, footwork is raw but he’s got huge upside. His size and physicality is gonna be mighty tempting.

            • Kenny Sloth

              Looking into the numbers on these guys…

              Is weight gonna be prohibitive with some of em?

              Are we gonna draft 6′ 187 lb. Jordan Thomas from Oklahoma?

              Are we looking for freakish size or maybe adding to team speed at CB?

            • peter

              You’re a slueth. Have you ever seen anywhere why he got suspended at texas?

              I’ve not seen it anywhere. Unless it’s a real reason I think it’s part of Tom ‘I can’t coach players I didn’t recruit’ Herman showing who’s boss. Btw I loved that urban meyer a guy im not to keen on laid into Herman for making that statement last year…….

              • CojackTX

                Hill was suspended on multiple occasions for failed drug tests, weed in particular. Great talent, though. Completely shut down James Washington this year.

                • Kenny Sloth

                  Not like James Washington is some technician

                  • TTownHawk

                    One of the better receivers in this draft. We’re obviously not talking about shutting down Antonio Brown, but as far as collegiate level competition, Washington is up there, as far as the current landscape.

  3. Volume12

    Don’t know if he has the size they may want opposite Shaq on the outside, but Natrell Jamerson could fill that hybrid role DeShawn Shead did. He was a CB for 2 years.

    • Volume12

      Portland St’s Chris Seisay should be an option too depending on his length.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Seahawks were at Columbia’s pro day where Cameron Roane had a very good day.

        Don’t know anything else about him

  4. TatupuTime

    Coaching up DBs should be a competitive advantage for the Seahawks. Pete is the best DB coach in the league. Keep drafting guys on day 2-3 for him to develop.

    Maxy probably gets resigned (other teams don’t seemed to be knocking on his door), but I wouldn’t be surprised if the second outside corner is already on the team. They have a few developmental guys (Elliot, Tyson, King, Thorpe) that could easily do well enough to get a shot. Any of those guys has the same skill set as someone they are likely to draft on day three this year.

    • Coleslaw

      I agree we should not take those guy’s time in the scheme for granted. I actually like Elliot to step in and get a shot, Thorpe has been pretty good too. King and Tyson are kinda unknowns, but I definitely think there’s room for a draft pick to at the very least compete with Tyson and King

  5. Trevor

    Great post Rob and I agree completely I think about the only thing for certain when the Hawks draft is that they are not going to go with a short armed CB in Rd #1

    Meeks, Yiamdom, Kelly and Hill all look like good options to come in for a red shirt year. There are also some interesting small school guys.

    With 4 picks in Rd #5 it looks like the sweet spot for them to take a CB and possibly a safety depending on what happens with Earl.

    • Del tre

      If they trade Earl CB goes from need to major need, it wouldn’t surprise me if they chose a corner before round 4 again. If trading Earl means 2 seconds then i wouldn’t be surprised at all with a 2nd rounder spent on a corner, assuming the right guy drops. I’m a big fan of Maxwell, but he is getting older and slower, he definitely has spots where he struggled last season. That being said if teams are reaching at corner the Hawks will probably wait.

  6. Trevor

    For guys whose job is NFL scouting / mocking like Kiper etc. it is just flat out lazy for them to not do enough research to know that a CB like Jackson will not be the pick.

    • MyChestIsBeastMode

      Ya. It’s only been about a decade of the Seahawks never breaking the 32″ rule (maybe fudging it with Thorpedo and overlooking wingspan with Quill, but you catch my drift).

    • Lewis

      You aren’t wrong, but they are never going to have the level of knowledge of each and every team that a guy like Rob does about this one. But you’re right, a mock like that tells you they don’t know the team beyond the superficial.

      I mostly look at mock drafts to say what players might be available at a given point, moreso than specific picks.

  7. schuemansky

    You are right, Rob.
    Seahawks do not take a CB at 18. They trade up to 8 and take a CB.
    At least according to a guy called Dan Parzych at
    Can it still get worse?

  8. Thy Hawk is Howling

    33 1/2 arms? Well now I know why some of you have a Nick Chubb for Isaiah Oliver!

    The real question is, can you have an Isaiah Oliver for Nick Chubb?

    • Kenny Sloth

      I say I’m all over Nick Chubb

      • Hawktalker #1

        He’s be a perfect second choice. 😉

    • D-OZ

      Oliver is the most technically sound CB in this draft. He leaves Int’s on the field though. That will come with coaching and more experience. I think he was more concerned with playing within the system which he did a very good at.

      • Hawktalker #1

        That guy seems to have some serious skill and a very high ceiling. Too bad he is going to go so early. Would love to have that guy on the team.

      • D-OZ

        I would like to see the Hawk’s do a couple of small trade down’s. I think they can get a pick in the mid 40’s to mid 50’s and and still pick in the 29 to 36 range. That may be enough to get Oliver then Chubb. I don’t think Chubb will go before 50. Oliver, I doubt will make it to 29. Here’s to wishful thinking…

  9. RWIII

    There are a number of good running backs in this draft. Durability should be a high priority. Sometimes when JS/PC take a running back they tend to over look durability. John Schneider targets the most talented running backs. I get that. Either it’s bad luck or just ignoring red flags. Seattle running backs have had more than there share of injuries.

    • Hawktalker #1

      What were some of the bad durability choices he made?

      • Dave Ashton


      • TTownHawk

        Robert Turbin missed an entire year in college with a knee injury, Christine Michael had season ending surgery at A&M, CJ Prosise was hampered by injuries in college as well.

  10. Isaac

    This draft is so hard to predict for the hawks. I think the important piece to remember is the hawks draft certain make ups in specific periods of the draft. The hawks tend to prioritize the lines in round 1. When they trade down I would be shocked if they go rb. I think they think of running backs the same way they do cb. They have a type and they don’t draft them high unless he is a special at athlete. It may be time to refocus our attention to the lines.

    • Hawktalker #1

      Or they may focus on the priorities they have already communicated.

    • Coleslaw

      Enter Sony Michel and Kerryon Johnson.

    • Rob Staton

      They took a running back with their first pick in 2013, in round two, much earlier than any CB they’ve taken before. And they made that pick when Marshawn was in his prime and a year after drafting Robert Turbin.

      No reason to refocus our attention.

      • Isaac

        Here’s the thing. Christine Michael was a special athlete. Do any of the top 8 running backs outside of Barkley have the same athleticism Michael did? Playing devils advocate. We got super focused on Kevin king last year or obi. Then the hawks went with McDowell stunning us all. Shouldn’t we atleast consider the possibility’s of d line in the early second round. Since that’s where we all seem to think we are gonna pick.

        • Del tre

          Nick Chubb is not only a better athlete but he actually has vision, he doesn’t just run into his linemen’s back. He also doesn’t slip constantly.
          Chubb is 10 pounds heavier and can lower his shoulder while also bolstering a similar athletic profile, in certain the Hawks would take him in a heartbeat. I’m willing to bet a Michael clone is exactly what they don’t want, they’re going to value vision and the ability to run against a stacked box and between the tackles, not a guy who is so athletic that whenever the isn’t a a hole the size of Texas to run through he tries to cut outside.
          Another bank that’s 10 pounds heavier but posted similar numbers is Royce Freeman.
          A 1200 yard back could keep the hawks in superbowl contention this year, especially if the line gives Russell time.

          • Isaac

            I get what your saying about Chubb and I’m glad there is a Michael level athlete available. If he is that good wouldn’t another team pick him up earlier in the draft? That would take Chubb off the board. Then we are back to my question about the line.

        • Coleslaw

          I think we’ve considered it, there’s just not a lot of options. The DEs that are gonna be there aren’t the most exciting prospects. I really like Tim Settle there, and think there may be some nice DT options there if some fall out of the first.

          This isn’t the year to pick DL. If you have the picks and a guy is there, why not, but you don’t pick a DL in this class over a position of greater need when you’re gonna get a first round DL talent in the early 2nd next year.

          • Isaac

            Something else we haven’t considered. Would the hawks take a total pass this year early in the draft and take someone’s 1st next year and a third this year or late second this year? Would that give us more options in a draft with better prospects?

            • Coleslaw

              Nah, we’ll be able to trade down next year and still get a top DL talent. If we don’t recoup the 2nd we lost from Brown, we could have 2,3,3,4,5,6,7. Trade Earl and could have 2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7. And a 2nd this year.

            • DCD2

              I don’t think the Hawks have ever traded for a “next years” pick (could be wrong, just don’t remember us doing it). Personally I would like to see them using this strategy, even if it’s a 5th this year for a 4th next year. Then a 4th for a 3rd, etc.

              For as excited as we all get for these guys that will be available in the 5th-7th rounds, the truth is that only a tiny percentage will be on the field regularly, much less make a significant impact.

              • Isaac

                That’s how we got the pick for earl Thomas.

        • Rob Staton

          So because Christine Michael was a great athlete, all athletic RB’s are like Michael?!

          Come on.

        • TTownHawk

          Your second point contradicts your first one. You just said it, they look to take special athletes early. Michael, Clark etc. McDowell fit that bill. At 6’6″ 295 he was an athletic freak and it showed on tape. I think that pick had just as much to do with his athleticism as it did their need for a DL. I could easily see them taking an RB early in this draft, there are plenty of elite athletes at the position. Chubb had a SPARQ score over 130. 4.5 forty and 40 inch vert at 230? Sign me up.

  11. drewdawg11

    People keep saying that there ar wa lot of good backs, and there are. However, not every player fits every system. When you start to narrow it down and cross reference talent level with style, you don’t have as many impact players to choose from. Honestly, I see a big 3 of Jones, Chubb and Johnson and then you start to force the issue a bit. All of the Guice fans baffle me, but to each their own. Freeman is a decent second-tier option, but he’s not a naturally fit for Seattle. They’ve got to put a dude back there behind Russell.

    • D-OZ

      I like Michel over Johnson. Chubb scares me due to the injury. I’ll bet the Hawks feel the same. They already have Carson coming off a significant injury and Rawls was never the same with ironically the same type of injury. So we really don’t know where Carson is @ mentally,do we? He does have a history as does Procise. There is a reason they said they are going to be drafting a specific type. (tougher) I think players coming out without that type of history. That’s what I got out their pressers. GO HAWKS!!!!

      • Rob Staton

        Chubb’s injury was two years ago. He’s since played consecutive productive seasons in the SEC with no setbacks and showed at the combine he is back to his physical peak.

        • drewdawg11

          Can’t get much tougher than Chubb. Came all the way back from the knee injury, and he’s the workhorse for a team that went to the title game and should have won it. Michel is a nice player, but I don’t think he’s better. He doesn’t have the injury history, so that’s a plus as well. He doesn’t necessarily have the same ability to run inside or the footwork inside the hole, but he does have a knack for chunk plays in the passing game, as well as on the ground. I think he’s tier 2 for the available players that we have a shot at, (Barkley is excluded from the most for obvious reasons). Imagine how interesting this would have been had Love and Harris declared.

        • D-OZ

          I think you missed the point Rob…

          • D-OZ

            In my astute opinion Chubb is tier 2 and Michel is tier 1. We will see come 2019. 😉

            • hawkdawg

              I would have disagreed with this…until the NC game. It seemed to me that Michel consistently outgained Chubb on very similar carries when they were being platooned.

              That said, running style and durability factors probably make Chubb more likely for Pete, out of the two…

            • Trevor

              I agree 100% Dr Oz

              • drewdawg11

                Recencey bias is a real thing. Seriously.

        • Thorson

          It may not matter in the short career of the typical NFL running back, but PCL injuries like Chubb had are associated with the development of arthritis later. I would have some concern over his ability to maintain his explosiveness over a longer career. Again, it may not matter if you can get 3-4 productive years from a guy like Chubb, but I’ll be surprised if has a career where he is productive for 5+ years.

          • Rob Staton

            Frank Gore also tore his ACL in back to back years in college at a time when science wasn’t able to properly repair the injury to the extent it can now. He’s had one of the longest and most successful RB careers in NFL history.

    • TTownHawk

      Agree with you on Guice. I think he is more Thomas Rawls than Marshawn Lynch. I don’t get the infatuation.

      If I had to put money down, I say one of Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson, Sony Michel or John Kelly is a Seahawk next year. There are also some intriguing late round options. This class is deeper than ever. Perfect opportunity for Seattle to capitalize.

  12. FuzzyLogic

    Off topic but why is it again nobody is talking about drafting Guice? I have tried to find some dirt on him but there isn’t much to be found other than he might be a bit immature and he likes to play games. As far as I can tell he was never arrested or suspended in his three years at LSU and has no direct history of getting in trouble. When I study his tape it screams Seahawk intensity.

    I know some here have said he’s like Rawls 2.0 or something but I really don’t see it. My guess is he goes late first early second and I think he will be on JS/PC’s radar big time. I for one will be excited if we pick this guy up with our first pick.

    • Hawktalker #1

      This topic has been discussed a few times in previous posts.

    • Del tre

      I honestly see more of a Rawls 2.0 when i watch Jones II, both keep their feet churning and eyes up but never stop moving forward, taking off at max speed, Guice stops and makes his cut once he finds the hole. I actually kind of see how he has tried to model his game after Marshawn Lynch, a lot of his moves are clearly similar/Guice copying Marshawns moves, and his patience/vision are comparable as well. You can tell when it comes down to it Guice is saying “i just read it” to his coach. I like a guy that can put his shoulder down and isn’t afraid of contact.
      SamIRGold tweeted today that the off field rumors are just BS. I get that Rob trusts his guy but these aren’t infallible sources, Pauline could have had a trusted source bend the truth a bit and that’s not his fault.

      • Hawktalker #1

        I see Rawls and Jones as two completely different types of runners. Rawls never has

        • Hawktalker #1

          Never had the speed and smoothness that Jones has . . .

          • BobbyK

            Good point. Rawls was never “smooth.”

            • Greg Haugsven

              Rawls was pretty much the opposite of smooth…lol. Very herky jerky if thats even a word.

              • BobbyK


      • Rob Staton

        I hate to say it again but I really don’t see that in Guice at all. Guice is exactly like Rawls, not Marshawn. The only comp I see with Ronald Jones II is Jamaal Charles.

        As for the sources… it’s not just Pauline. It’s Bob McGinn, Dan Hatman and my own thought process based on merely studying Guice’s social media presence and the revelation this week that he made up stories about being asked unacceptable questions at the combine.

        • McZ

          Hatman has since rowed back from his early tweet, saying he doesn’t know him and hasn’t talked to him, and couldn’t as such verify.

          Tony Pauline wrote the following:
          “I’m told Guice did nothing to move the needle in his favor today and documented off-field issues are weighing heavily on his draft grade. Several teams do not hold a positive view of Guice and some have characterized the talented ball carrier as a “loose cannon.””

          Aha, he was “told”. And “documented off-field issues”, but not linking to evidence. Nice.

          What bugs me about the last sentence is, how could they knew? There is no evidence to find on his college resume.

          IMO, the only plausible answer is: there were rumors about Guice reacting very strongly on some topics. So, there were some teams that indeed ‘tested’ him by asking him questions. He reacted as expected, with the teams sniffing over it, telling all armchair footballers about it.

          Voila, “well documented off-field issues”.

          So, in all fairness, if indeed his draft stock falls, I hope the Hawks draft him, letting his “cannon loose” at other teams defenses, providing the same impact as Fournette @Jax.

          • Rob Staton

            The Derrius Guice apologists are starting to sound like the anti-run game brigade on Seahawks twitter.

            • McZ

              I would defend the dignity of anyone who is treated like this young person, who BTW is not even my preferred back.

              I think it is plain stupid to constrain draft options based on the question, if trash talk A is more plausible than trash talk B.

              But, as you are at it, for what exactly should Derrius Guice apologize?

              • Rob Staton

                Here’s the situation:

                — multiple trusted sources are reporting teams are concerned about certain character flags

                — he bizarrely appears to have made up a story about inappropriate questions at the combine

                — there are various other things you can discover with just a little bit of homework, like Guice filming a video for social media where he yells ‘stfu’ at a woman

                Now you can cover your ears if you want, say it’s all a load of hot air and some kind of conspiracy to act against Guice.

                Or you can take the information on face value and use it as part of a wide ranging and thorough assessment of the available options.

                I prefer the second one.

                • Kenny Sloth

                  Lol google best Derrius Guice Twitter rants.

                  The first couple examples are all totally different situations. So sad.

                  It’s not Richard Sherman trolling either.

                  It’s immature lashing out.

                  Here he is with his mom with what looks like a brand new car
                  The tweet was quickly deleted. Shady shit, Rob haha

                  Telling fans to burn LSU gear if they don’t agree with his political views.

                  He is the definition of me-first at this point

                  • Kenny Sloth

                    That’s like the first five hits Rob

                  • Kenny Sloth

                    Wow Derrius Guice is signed with Kendrick Lamar’s Top Dog Entertainment

            • TTownHawk

              The “RBs don’t matter” take is one of my least favorite of all time. I think it’s absurd.

    • Rob Staton

      There’s plenty out there

      • Kenny Sloth

        He’s attending the draft, one of only 22.

        Probably doesn’t last long into day 2.

        The pushback against the character concerns is really strange. The guy has gone through some s*** and needs some support to maintain his professionalism. Nobody’s saying he’s a bad guy, just needs a little extra love. I’m not sure the Seahawks want a lead back whose hand they’ll have to hold for his first couple years.

        Zero concerns with Nick Chubb, RoJo, and Kerryon

        We’ve been talking about getting players that are all-football

        Guice has new social media starting last season and I believe profits from his Twitch page.

        BREAKING NEWS…. He’s also starting a youtube channel.

        When John Schneider said all-football I don’t think he meant Madden

        • Kenny Sloth

          To be clear, I think he’s the fourth best back from this class at the next level, but I don’t know if the Seahawks need to put their hopes on one of the youngest players in the league.

          Derrius Guice is gonna be funny and a good interview and wear flashy suits, but Nick Chubb ia gonna raise the intensity in that RB room.

          Can’t wait for Chubb v Carson. Some 2013 level competition.

          • FuzzyLogic

            Guice is only 20 years old and has obviously had a messed up childhood. But so did Lynch who also was SUPER immature coming out of college. I just hope if we draft Guice we will all be on his side and embrace him for the beast on the field he will be. Personally I haven’t liked many of the immature personalities we’ve had on this team since Pete took over but if there’s one coach in the NFL that can mold Guice…it’s Pete.

            One other note. I watched the RB’s at the combine yesterday again and yes he does seem more immature than the others. But he also looked great out there and I was surprised to see how light his feet were for being such a hard running back. Nice jump cuts as well. He also ran a sub 4.5 40 yard dash.

            • Rob Staton

              He’s not a bad player, far from it.

              The concerns are legit though. And here’s the thing. The Seahwawks have had too much unreliability at RB. There are also plenty of alternatives who don’t carry the character risk. Some of them are superior to Guice too in terms of talent.

  13. Del tre

    And to clarify not knocking Jones II he is much faster and part of the reason Rawls declined is because he lost his vision, Jones has not. Lets remember pre-injury and even post injury Rawls had some great games, he was inconsistent as hell though, Jones hasn’t been anything but consistent for USC

    • drewdawg11

      Rawls, when he was healthy, had mediocre to poor vision. He was quick enough to hit the holes but he was often guessing. I noticed it his rookie season. He slowed down with his injuries and was never good enough to overcome the loss of speed and quickness.

  14. Greg Haugsven

    Nice article on Christian Campbell. 33.5 inch arms with a 79 inch wingspan smells like a possible late round addition.

    • Greg Haugsven

      6’1″ 195
      BJ…11′ 3″
      3 Cone…6.77
      20 yard…4.18
      BP 224…14

      • D-OZ

        Campbell is day 2 all the way.

        • D-OZ

          I would be surprised if he made it to 120…

  15. RWIII

    Kentavius Street torn his ACL doing a workout for the Giants. This sucks. There has got to be a way prevent these workouts. The combine, pro days, plus all the film from their college career is plenty. There has got to be something done to protect the players.

    Smith is now damaged goods.

    • Greg Haugsven

      Agreed, Nelson tore his meniscus to the other day. Sidney Jones with his Achilles last year. It hurts these guys so much.

    • Hawktalker#1

      If a workout is going to damage these players, they were never going to survive the NFL in the first place. Their future team workouts and on field play would have pushed them harder than that. Although I don’t see the need to run timed drills/tests over and over, I think much of the team workout complaints are misplaced.

      • Ishmael

        That’s nonsense. It’s not necessarily about how hard they’re being pushed, although overloading players should clearly be a concern given how hard they’ve pushed in preparation for the combine – it’s taking a chance when there’s no need to. Sometimes you just land a little bit funny and things blow up.

        There’s no need for players to needlessly expose themselves to the possibility of a career and life changing industry for the vanity of teams. If scouts can’t tell what the player can do after multiple seasons of college football, combine testing, and pro day testing, then they’re not up to the job.

        • GerryG

          We’ve all seen videos of how hard these guys train, how different is that from the workouts they do for a team? How many team workouts are there vs injuries? We think of the few listed but what percentage is that?

          I’m just wondering, I don’t know…

  16. A, Chris

    I’m actually curious about Jamarcus King. He’s super thin, but I think he’s got the frame to bulk and strengthen up. Ran low 4.5s at his pro day (strained a flexer at the combine- 4.7). Apparently has good work ethic and good drive. He’s got a serious eye for the ball. Would be a beautiful project from the late rounds if he has the personality PC/JS look for. Anyone with a better eye taken a look at him?

  17. Coleslaw

    Just to bang the drum a bit more for Braden Smith. His TEF score is 3.43 and his weighted TEF is 107.83.
    Aaron Donald’s TEF is 3.40 and WTEF is 96.97.
    We’ve talked about the O line talent not stacking up to the D line talent, we’ll here you go.

    • nichansen01

      Braden Smith is a player I really like. However drafting him would just basically be admitting that either Ifedi or Pocic were busts. He’ll go late round 2 at the LATEST.

      • Michigan 12th

        I think we are all hoping that the Seahawks go back to competition, and are willing to give up on players they drafted early if they do not compete at a high enough level. If Smith can out perform Ifedi or Pocic they need to go and Smith needs to be added.

        However the you’ve got to move on from spending so much draft capitol on one position needs to come into play at some point. Is this the year? I hope not, because with all the talent at the interior line position in the draft, we need/should tap into it at some point.

        • GerryG

          The flip side to that argument is that we have extremely limited draft capital, and on paper have enough horses to field an OL.

          RB, TE, LB, DE and CB is extremely thin however.

          • peter

            That’s my thinking as well. However if Frank ragnow in an alternate world drops to the fourth round i want Seattle to run to the podium. He’s a better center than either Britt is or pocic was and could start at guard having actual experience at that spot as well.

            He’s not been able to test due to a surgically repaired high ankle sprain but he was without injury for his college career. He’s credited with something ridiculous like zero sacks in 41 starts.

            • Rob Staton

              I think Ragnaw will safely find a home in round two. Maybe even late R1.

  18. RWIII

    I am liking what I am studying about Braden Smith.

    • Coleslaw

      I think he’s legit man. Started 41 consecutive games. Given that we’re probably getting back to the ‘win your job’ mentality, I think he’d be able to play his way into the starting 5. Probably over Pocic, possibly over Ifedi. Everything about picking him makes sense, from draft value, team need, and roster fit.

      • peter

        O think robs right that they don’t go linemen early this year but I’m a big believer in Smith and wish there was enough capital to consider taking him.

  19. nichansen01

    For me I’m confused as to why we are overlooking Levi Wallace. He’s got speed, length amazing tape and the “walk on” story the Seahawks love.

    He seems “all football” but also has the measurables.

    What am I missing here? Is his weight really turning that many people off?

    • Hawktalker#1

      Underwhelming 4.63 40 time.

  20. Old but Slow

    First impression of Smith for me, is why is he playing RG with those kind of numbers? Then, watching games, he does not seem either a brute or a technician. Certainly not a Wynn (technician) or Hernandez (brute). Lunges at times and ends up on the ground.

    Those testing numbers suggest that he will be drafted early, maybe top 10? I don’t see it, personally, and when have I ever been wrong? Since yesterday, say.

    My main point, really, is that he may be over drafted, which is good for us.

    • Coleslaw

      He’s not lunging, he’s just really tall and he has to bend to get lower than the DE. It actually gives him a lot of power, and he locks onto people and drives them into the ground. Albeit he is vulnerable to overreaching but I think he can be a monster force in the running game.
      In the passing game he sets really nice, and his power shows. He lets DL inside on his chest sometimes but he has the power to bench them off of him and the feet/base to plant and regain control and be an anchor and lock them out of the play from there. His main problems are mental, and he could use his hands better, but they’re not bad.
      Also, he’s not going to get overdrafted. He’s actually being underrated IMO. Projected in rounds 2-3 on draft profile. I think you can get him in the late 2nd early 3rd.
      He’s not a technician, yet. But he does do well. He has all the tools and has been consistent, gaining plenty of accolades.
      Lastly, he does play Tackle. He often switched from RG to RT from snap to snap. Depending on the situation.

      • Old but Slow

        It seems more likely that he will be a 1st or 2d rounder to me, but I appreciate the feedback. I did not notice the switches from G to T, but I will look again. But, he seems like he will need to be coached up before he can do well. I expect he will be a good player in time.

        My main point, though, is not how he plays but how he tests. There are teams that value those numbers more than we do, and we like them. Too bad Al Davis is not still running the Raiders, as he would be top 10 for sure. 🙂

  21. Robert Las Vegas

    Great article Rob thank you the name that stands out for me is Levi kWallace and why the guy was a walk on and how many walk on start at Alabama defense not many I am guessing has a chip on his shoulder.and led the SEC in pass’s defended and this could be important because tedric Thompson got drafted by the seahawks and he was tied in nation in pass’s the way Ronnie Harrison is really good.

  22. Kenny Sloth

    Isaiah Oliver: 33 1/2 arms — 80 5/8 wingspan 9″5/8 hands, 6′ 194 lbs. 4.5, 6.94, 35.5, 10-8,

    Carlton Davis: 32 3/4 arms — 79 3/8 wingspan, 8″7/8 hands, 6’1 204 lbs. 4.44, 7.30, 34″, 10-3, 16

    Isaac Yiadom: 32 1/4 arms — 75 3/4 wingspan, 8″7/8 hands, 6’1, 190 lbs. 4.52, 6.85, 34.5″, 10′, 8

    Holton Hill: 32 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan, 6’2, 196 lbs. 4.49, 6.83, 31″, 10′, 14

    Quenton Meeks: 31 3/4 arms — 76 1/4 wingspan, 6’1, 209 lbs. 4.23 ss 6.72 3cone, 39″, 10’08”, 11

    Tarvarus McFadden: 32 1/2 arms — 78 wingspan 6’2, 198 lbs. 4.65, 35″, 10’01

    Levi Wallace: 32 3/4 arms — 77 3/8 wingspan 6′, 183 lbs. 4.63* injured on run. 33″

    Christian Campbell: 33 1/2 arms — 79 wingspan 8 3/4hands, 6’1, 195 lbs. 4.55, 4.18, 6.77, 41″ 11″03, 14

    Arrion Springs: 31 3/4 arms — 75 7/8 wingspan 5’10, 208 lbs., 4.46, 4.51, 7.02, 9’10, 32″, 18

    D’Montre Wade: 32 3/8 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan 9″ 7/8 hands, 5’11, 206, 4.57, 4.40, 35 1/2″, 10′,

    Brandon Facyson: 32 5/8 arms — 78 1/2 wingspan 9 3/4″ 6’1, 203 lbs. 4.53, 16 reps

    Chandon Sullivan: 32 3/8 arms — 76 3/4 wingspan, 9″ hands, 5’11, 194 lbs. 4.6, 4.36 ss, 41″ 11’02, 15

    Jordan Thomas: 32 arms — 77 3/4 wingspan, 9″ 1/2 hands, 6′, 187 lbs. 4.64, 3.94, 6.28, 10’04, 34″, 04 bench

    Charvarius Ward: 32 1/4 arms — 77 1/4 wingspan 6’1, 198 lbs. 4.44, 4.56, 7.52, 11′, 37 1/2″, 12

    JaMarcus King: 32 7/8 arms — 78 3/8 wingspan 9 1/8″ hands, 6’1, 185 lbs. 4.58, 4.38, 7.2, 9’06, 32 1/2″

    Donovan Olumba: 32 7/8 arms — 77 7/8 wingspan 6’2, 192, 4.62, 4.47, 6.91, 10’06, 36″, 09

    Malik Reaves: 32 1/2 arms — 76 7/8 wingspan 5’11 201 lbs.

    Chris Jones: 32 3/4 arms — 78 1/4 wingspan 6′ 207 lbs. 4.53, 4.28, 6.96, 34 1/2″, 10’01, 14 (Nebraska)

    • Kenny Sloth

      Some reference number for the CB target list

    • Kenny Sloth

      Arm length, wingspan, hand size, h/w, 40 yard dash, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump, vertical, bench press

      • Tecmo Bowl

        Nice list of Seahawks CB options Kenny. One name to add:

        Josh Kalu- 32 3/4″arms 78 1/8″wingspan 10″ hands 6’2/8″ 203. 4.58 40. 4.25 SS 6.72 3C. 41′ 1/2″ Vert 11′ 2/8″ Broad

        The 40 time isn’t great, but is inline with Sherman and Maxwell. Spent 3 years at CB before being moved to S. His former DC had some good things to say;

        “Joshua Kalu could play a myriad of different positions really, really well,” Diaco said during fall camp last season. “He’s a talented player. He’s a rugged, tough player. He’s a smart player. We all collectively believe that safety is his natural position. We believe that from an evaluation standpoint and a future standpoint that he would be a very, very good corner, [or] maybe even a great corner.”

    • H

      Campbell’s measurables are intriguing as hell. Have to believe they’d be interested in him.
      Anyone watched much tape on him?

      • peter

        Maybe I should fire up the dj moore talk. I watched a couple of games from kelley, campbell, and hill and really came impressed with kameron kelly. Still really like hill.

        But Campbell and hill had a hard time against moore. I’m not knocking either player btw. I just think moore would be an awesome for in seattle. He’s fast, shifty, explosive and can make his own yards which Seattle has lacked for a few years.

        • H

          I watched that game against Maryland for Campbell too. He did lose the battle pretty clearly. I still think there’s plenty to work with as well.
          If youve got long arms and you’re willing to tackle, Pete’ll make a db out of you.

  23. Dave Ashton

    Today’s musing is quite a long one so you’ll need to bear with me.

    Last year, I remember thinking drafting a running back could come into play on Day 2. It wasn’t a popular consensus when I floated it around and I didn’t always fully understand why. We’d just signed Eddie Lacy but how many of us actually thought he could be THE GUY? Prosise had flashed but had durability concerns. Rawls similarly was coming off an injury and hadn’t shown as much as he did his rookie year.

    Following Day 1 there were a lot of different ways we could have gone. Kevin King and Obi Melifonwu were still on the board. So were some tasty running backs in Dalvin Cook, Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara and Kareem Hunt. All of them looked explosive and that they could be a franchise back. We were never interested in Joe Mixon because of the bad decision he made. Dalvin Cook came with red flags but his talent was never questioned. Alvin Kamara and Kareem Hunt looked great. In short, we could have found our franchise back last year with low levels of risk attached to those picks talent wise.

    Obviously, we went a different direction and drafted a DT with character concerns and Pocic. The jury is still out on those guys, and I hope with all my heart they work out, but I wasn’t too pumped with the McDowell pick for all the reasons we discussed on this thread. His attitude seemed so unseahawky the pick was baffling to me. When Pocic name was called I nearly threw the remote at the TV. I am still dying for these guys to prove that initial reaction wrong and turn into studs down the line.

    Clearly, Pete has spoken about getting run game back as a top priority so clearly this year it brings RB into play early. But from where I’m sitting I cant see a huge jump in depth on Day 2 this year v last. Assuming that all the RBs fall to Rd 2 which is probably unlikely you’re going to have Rojo/Chubb/Michel/Johnson/Guice vs Cook/Mixon/Kamara/Hunt last. That’s not a huge gap if we’re honest. Maybe this draft is deeper with people like Penny, Freeman & Kelly coming into play but you take my point…. people were not talking about RB as a need last year when it absolutely was.

    Now, what is clear is that this interior OL class is better than last year’s. Vs reaching for need last year in Pocic (as I saw it) for an equivalent pick this year some really good prospects in Wynn/Price/Hernandez/Smith/Daniels/Ragnow/Corbett that come into play.

    From where I’m sitting PCJS won’t be looking at the strengths of the relevant classes in their decision but more whether they like the value relative to other players left on the board. We saw that last year with them passing on DBs in r2 to draft Shaq in r3. I just don’t take it as read that them looking at a RB in r2 is what is going to happen if their board falls a different way – case in point, our running back corps being the same now as they were last year… they might even like what they have in Carson and be looking for a partner in crime later in the draft.

    How do people view this take? Why was RB such an unpopular consensus last year but is the trendy view this year when the need is almost identical? How do we view the level of talent of RB this year v last, when even though there appear MORE selections worthy of selection in the range were talking about we could still have had our guy in that range last year? And also how does the pick of Pocic look one year later when we see the prospects that are going to be available this year?

    • Rob Staton

      It’s a far better interior OL class this year but for me it’s also a much better RB class. Hunt benefits (IMO) from an offense that has consistently churned out production at RB. Cook is good but didn’t have a particularly ‘special’ physical quality and had character issues. Loved Kamara but there was a major injury concern there. This is a much deeper group.

      • Dave Ashton

        Ok, but knowing what you know now do you think a combo of Kamara/2018OG would be preferable to Pocic/2018RB based on the kind of areas we are looking to pick this year, knowing what we know now? All I’m saying is going RB last year in hindsight looks like might have been a decent strategy given that we were thin at the position last year too.

        • Rob Staton

          With hindsight you can build an unstoppable roster. Fact is Kamara was/is a major injury risk and 30 other teams didn’t draft him either. Imagine the reaction on here a yes ago had they ignored OL again. I also don’t think Pocic plus one of the 2018 runners is a major drop off to a 2017 RB plus 2018 OL.

          • Dave Ashton

            Yes of course but the reason we get excited about the draft and all the analysis is to understand the art of the possible is for the team we love. I was high on Kamara so always interesting to see where we are a year later with a similar set of gaps to what we had the year before. If I hadn’t been looking at Kamara as a possible fit then it moves out the hindsight into the rosterbation category and has no merit. Understand ‘re the injury concerns but the Saints came to get him because he fell further than his talent level should have.

            We needed o line I’m just not sure we needed Pocic. Centre was the only position we were solid. I get that he was drafted for versatility but I hated the pick at the time!!! Felt like a reach. Hated their rd2. Was higher on rd3 with the exception of the Naz Jones pick… this again highlights your point that hindsight is a beautiful thing because Naz looked solid last year and good value for where he was picked. I like to be proven wrong. Hope Pocic and mcdowell set into improving their stock.

            I’m glad that you feel the way surrounding Pocic potential after y1 and the breadth of options in r2 r3 to get our bellcow. We will find out in due course if I want to throw my remote through the TV again this year and then we get to find out over a longer time horizon whether my hot take was anywhere close to proving accurate. That’s what makes the draft process and the NFL so much fun.

            • Dave Ashton

              One other thing I wanted to mention is I loved how you handled draft day with when it didn’t quite go the way you expected. The Malik pick following your article when you stated you couldn’t see him as a hawk (where he had the interview mumbling one word answers, will always resonate with me) must have been tough. And also to do so much research as you do to not have Pocic on the radar at all given that center was set. Puzzling picks. But your calm, measured and positive spin on it was much appreciated and always highlights there’s different ways to build a top roster. Helped to give some additional perspective. Thanks.

              • Hawktalker#1

                Dave, thanks for all your comments. A good read.

                • Dingbatman


              • C-Dog

                Great contributions, Dave.

                Like you, I was initially a bit annoyed by the Pocic pick, but I liked it more once I took the center position away from him and just put OL next to his name, considering his versatility he displayed at LSU. As it stood, I believe according to reports he was viewed as the best available OL left on their board when they picked.

                I think the thing is that if you look at their roster leading into the draft, they might be more set at OL as a group than any other area. Where as, it feels like with Carson, Prosise, Davis, and McKissic, that is the RB group filled with players that each have major question marks. Add that they haven’t added any hedges in free agency, it feels like, if ever there was a draft where they go RB early, this would be the one.

                But I totally get your points. I think everything hinges on how many day two picks they end up having. If they trade back from 18 for two day two picks, I think the likelihood is high the first pick is a RB, but if they trade Earl Thomas for picks, it opens things up considerably.

                We shall see..

                • Dave Ashton

                  C-Dog, thanks, and to all who responded positively.

                  I find it interesting Pocic was deemed to be best OL left. What were these reports? Internal hawks ones or league wide consensus? My understanding if you take the pressers literally is not bothered about him being picked by Raiders (despite all the visits) and sweat and tears being poured over Pocic… Just interested in all of this, as, at the time I had Moton/Feeney/Garcia/Elflein/Pocic all with similar grades !

                  Fully agree that RB Needs the upgrade. Rubbing hands with glee to see what happens.

                  • Dave Ashton

                    Obi = him

  24. SheHawk

    Totally different scenarios. After struggling last year we will grab a couple RBs this draft. Last year was abysmal, despite heading into training camp with lots of perceived depth at RB. Lacy was bust, Collins and Rawls gone now…

    We likely didn’t take RB earlier last draft because Pete had Carson in his back pocket. Used rd 7 pick to ensure he’d be here v. Having to recruit him as UDFA. Then hawks saw what some of the RBs we passed on last draft band cut did on the field. Not making same mistake twice. May still choose to take a couple good solid RBs in mid rounds if talent we can’t pass up is there early on.

    Ps_ Thanks for the insights on who we met with…. I think it’s telling there are WR and TEs – we may decide to take best offensive weapons available in earlier rounds.

  25. Frank

    In all fairness, Collins did pretty good once he didn’t have to run behind Tom Cable’s blocking scheme. It took Marshawn a bad year to learn the system, and it’s a moot point since we are past Cable era. For all we know it might have clicked for Lacy year 2. I’m not going to be surprised if Lacy and Rawls have really good years elsewhere next year.

    • Volume12

      Them cutting Collins so soon and then watchjng him go on and have a successful season and look like the back he was at Arkansas had to have been an ‘oops’ moment.

      • AlaskaHawk

        His release was one of those frustration moments for me. He looked good but couldn’t find a hole to run through because the offensive line was BAD. Just BAD. As soon as he got on a decent team he started producing. My frustration was that they ignored his college record, and kept others with less of a history of production. At some point you have to stop blaming the running backs and look at blocking and coaching.

  26. RWIII

    Rob: A couple of questions.
    1) How many years do you think Duane Brown will play?

    2) What do you expect realistically this season from:
    a) C.J. Prosise
    b) Amara Darboh

    • Rob Staton

      1. No idea, depends on him and his ability to stay healthy. Very difficult to predict.

      2. I expect nothing from Prosise because that’s what we’ve had from him for two years. He’s very much in the ‘believe it when I see it’ category. Darboh I expect him to compete for a job.

      • RWIII

        Thanks Rob.

  27. DCD2

    Hypothetical: Say Buffalo wants to trade up to #4 or even #2 to get a QB.

    We trade #18 (900 points) and #120 (54 points) for #53 (370), 56 (340) & #65 (265). That’s about 954 VS 975 for value. Buffalo then trades #12 and #18 to move up, while still having pick #22 to take or trade down with.

    Would we be happy with that haul? 2.21, 2.24, 3.1 for 1.18 & 4.20?

    Or would we be afraid that we wouldn’t be able to get “our guy” at 2.21?

    • Rob Staton

      If #12 + #18 is enough to move up — I imagine #12 + #22 will be.

      • DCD2

        Maybe, but we are hoping to move down a few spots to add 2nd and 3rd rounders, so maybe not.

        I’m wondering if picking that late as our first pick would scare you. Two 2nd’s and the first pick in the 3rd seems like a good haul, but it also seems like we might miss out on a number of targets.

    • Dave Ashton

      Depends how much they want it… leverage.

  28. drewdawg11

    If our first pick is in the 50s then we really blew it.

  29. Volume12

    Since we’re on the subject of CBs and there ain’t many that fit what not only Seattle likes but the majority of the NFL is gravitating towards, does Seattle force a pick at a need position like they have the past few years or do they go with a slot corner?

  30. Hawksince77

    Okay, not my idea, I didn’t bring this up, and I was the one public poster who consistently foresaw Wilson as a starter his rookie year, and documented his potential for greatness.

    But times have changed. Consider the following:

    1 – top QBs (heck, mediocre QBs) are extremely expensive. Somebody wrote a piece a year or two ago documenting the record of SB winners with expensive QBs. This list was quite small.

    2 – the QB market will get worse in the next couple of years

    3 – PC’s blueprint for winning championships is a crushing defense and an effective run game. He doesn’t require an elite QB to win it all

    4 – an argument could be made that Seattle’s two SB appearances didn’t require Wilson to be elite. A good QB could have been quite competitive

    5 – Seattle is ‘re-tooling’. But in fact, they are in transition from a 9-7 team to something else.

    6 – Wilson has two years on his contract, meaning he will outplay his contract over those two years (or in other words, he will be relatively cheap)

    7 – if you trade Wilson now, there is no need (unlike in ET’s case) to negotiate an expensive extension

    8 – In other words, Wilson’s trade value is at it’s peak

    9 – by the time Seattle retools (2019 or 2020, say) Wilson will be due a monster extension. It’s quite possible PC/JS see granting such an extension a major detriment to their team. The timing for that pending expensive extension is not very good, as they would presumably be in the middle of another run at the Lombardi.

    10 – PC wants to spend money (based on his history in Seattle) on the defense, not the offense

    11 – having an elite QB is almost a curse in the NFL (with the exception of Brady, for some reason)

    12 – the only trade partner this year that would make any sense is Cleveland.

    13 – Wilson in Cleveland in 2018 makes the Browns immediately relevant

    14 – JS has been scouting top tier QBs

    15 – Cleveland has a ton of draft capital. If they offered Seattle their 1, 4, 33 and 35, that would be tempting

    16 – lets say for arguments sake, Seattle also trades ET for a couple of decent picks

    17 – with that 2018 draft capital, PC/JS and assemble another group of young, talented, motivated players to contend within the next year or two

    18 – depending on how they see this year’s QBs, they could take their pick with the first pick, or more likely, trade down for more draft capital. Whatever QB they draft, presumably in the first round, they get five years of club control relatively cheap. If they trade out of the number one spot, their QB is even cheaper

    19 – at 4 (or even 1, depending on how strongly they feel about this) they draft Barkley

    20 – with their slew of draft picks, and with some trades, they could walk away with the talent to seed success for the next several years. There are so many possibilities it’s impossible for me to imagine.

    However unlikely this scenario, it would sure make this coming draft a hoot for Seahawk fans. 🙂

    • peter

      1. there are no qbs in this draft that are as good now as Wilson was coming out of college. there I said it. except Mayfield who is a tool. and Lamar Jackson if allowed to succeed.could be something special.

      2. a good qb maybe could have won the Superbowl but since the modern era show me the non elite qbs to win? it’s about 5 guys out of the last 25 or so super bowls. so maybe percentage of cost is a better metric than elite. perhaps Seattle gets wonky and pays Wilson a ton of money but over an easy to finance 6 year’s?

      3. sorry to hear it from me but Barkley isn’t even the best running back in the class. if he doesn’t get injured I’d almost put money on jones2. I get that he has great production and electric testing but if we are going to ding chubb against Alabama (one time) than surely Barkley vs. Michigan state, rutgers, and Minnesota are huge knocks against him.

      4. I’m not opposed to the thought experiment of trading Wilson. honestly parts of it make sense.

      5. some.of.not having a.crushing defense and a great.running game falls on the staff and not Wilson’s paycheck. they paid a.ton of.defensive stars when they could have thought some might decline and picking a running back that was all testing and minimal production is/were bad decisions.

      • Hawksince77

        Nice response. More thoughts:

        1 – I wouldn’t be surprised – Wilson had a record score (can’t recall the source) of a metric predicting college QB success in the pros. But PC doesn’t need somebody as good. I haven’t an opinion about the quality of these QBs, but if they viewed someone like Jackson intriguing, that would be perfect as they could trade from the top and get him later in the first.

        2 – Depending on how you define ‘elite’ (Nick Foles?) I wasn’t suggesting you don’t need a ‘good’ QB to be competitive. But elite? Top 3 in the league? No, that’s not necessary. From memory, many good first-contract QBs have played in the SB – off the top of my head, Wilson (2), Rothlisburger (2), Cam Newton, Colin Kapernick, Joe Flacco, etc. Paying top dollar for the QB can hamstring the rest of the roster. With exceptions, the ideal may be something like what the Rams, Eagles and Jags are doing, fielding young, inexpensive and talented (except the Jags) QBs.

        3 – Even better if Barkley isn’t all that. That allows them to trade out of that pick (the 4th, say) if they are targeting Lamar Jackson, and take someone like Rojo with a late first or one of their top second round picks. Doing so would allow the selection of an elite defensive player at 4 (Chubb, say), or with a trade down, someone like Vita.

        4 – thanks

        5 – sure, hindsight is 20/20, but that last two years have seen big contracts with wilting production. They don’t want to recreate the past two years – they want another 2013/14 again, and that means an elite (top defense in the league) and a great running game. What they don’t need is a mega-million QB.

        One final note. PC/JS have not been shy about doing the unthinkable (starting a third round QB over a FA QB you paid big bucks, for instance). They take chances (Harvin, Graham, for instance). It just seems to me that this might be a rare opportunity (if Cleveland is interested) to reboot the kind of team PC thinks he can win with.

  31. Misfit74

    Appreciate the post Rob. You are the man when it comes to Seahawks corners and prospects.

    The few early guys I like that we probably won’t draft due to likely draft range are I. Oliver and C. Davis. Holton Hill may be the best fit that I really like, but he may go by the 3rd. Getting deeper is something I really count on for. 👍

  32. ChrisClem

    I really like both Nick Nelson and Parry Nickerson, who is both under 6 feet tall and have short arms. Do you see them as out of the question for the Seahawks, given their draft history? Justin Coleman has short arms and was terrific last year. Can they be drafted to compete With him?

    • Rob Staton

      Sure, could see them adding some competition at nickel. Especially considering Coleman is a free agent next year.

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