Pete Carroll is telling you the end is nigh

Pete Carroll’s body language has been very different this year

Seattle’s Head Coach paused. He took a deep breath and composed himself. And as he fought through a little emotion, he delivered the following line:

I’ve been here a long time. Without Russell, I wouldn’t have been here a long time.”

With the Seahawks sitting at 2-5, having lost two games they easily could’ve won, reality dawned. Russell Wilson’s importance to the Seahawks was made unequivocally clear.

You could argue it was also a review of Geno Smith. After all, this is a player who they were so unconvinced by they held Sean Mannion on the initial 53-man roster for the purpose of ‘competition’.

How Smith has managed to be Seattle’s backup for three years, despite never putting in a single convincing pre-season performance, is a question that still needs to be answered.

He’s been so bad, it’s practically unfair on the fans to make them sit through another contest with him under center.

Nevertheless, my immediate thought on listening to this quote wasn’t about Geno Smith.

Carroll genuinely seemed a little choked up. He was candid in a way he rarely is immediately after a game.

I don’t think he was necessarily meaning to push all of Seattle’s success in the way of Wilson (although it’s unquestionable that the quarterback has been responsible for winning season after winning season, despite flaws across the roster). It did feel though that this was a man admitting the end was nigh.

By referencing the time in which he’s been here, it felt like a tell. It was a reflective comment. With the raw emotion thrown in, here was an individual who’s been thinking about things.

In admitting Wilson’s integral role in Carroll’s own personal success, he’s also announcing to the world that without him, it’s very unlikely success will happen.

If it’s business as usual next year, Wilson will not accept that. We surely know by now that he will request a trade. It’s virtually impossible to imagine any scenario where Carroll, Wilson and John Schneider give it another go in 2022. There will be significant change of some form in the off-season.

Carroll saying what he did implies he knows, as well as anyone, that moving Wilson and doing another major reset isn’t plausible. And it’s the biggest hint yet that he’ll bow out to get out of the way.

We’ve had other hints too. Carroll’s body language this season has been extremely out of character. There was the impromptu LA Times article, suddenly discussing the glory years at USC — just as they’re looking for a new Head Coach.

I think the Wilson trade saga took a lot out of Carroll and Schneider this year. It was an immediate challenge by the most important asset the team has. A challenge to do things differently.

It also meant having to deal with Mark Rodgers again, something I think Schneider in particular has had his fill of.

Knowing Carroll as we do, he’ll probably come out this week with some kind of rallying call and they’ll try to win against Jacksonville and believe Wilson’s return can launch a run. He’ll note the defensive improvement (although in fairness, they’ve played two bad offense’s in the last two weeks).

Yet I sense in his heart he’ll know it’s one last great punt to see if they can create some magic. That come the end of this season, a great era will be over.

Rightly so, too. Nobody wants to see Carroll stay long enough to become the enemy. The simple fact is too many mistakes have been made. Bad drafts, bad trades, bad decisions on how to address certain positions on the roster, bad coaching appointments.

They squandered the opportunity to reset in 2018 and now it’s time for someone else to have a go. The people who selected Rashaad Penny and L.J. Collier and traded for Jamal Adams can’t be the people taking the franchise in a new direction. The people who went into the 2020 season with that pass rush or thought the cornerback and center positions were adequately dealt with this year. They can’t be making the big calls in 2022.

Carroll only took the job in Seattle because he was given ultimate control. I think he knows, considering he’s admitted Wilson’s significance to the franchise, that perhaps Russell deserves the same opportunity to shape what’s next.

The key here is for the organisation as a whole to get the house in order. Ownership must start to evaluate and plan ahead. They must be prepared for the major change they didn’t anticipate when they offered Carroll and Schneider long contracts.

Sitting idly by with an ‘ah shucks’ attitude won’t cut it. This is elite level sport and you have a responsibility to the fans to make big decisions, not just easy decisions.

Even if Carroll and Schneider move on — they’ll need to sell the next iteration of this franchise to Wilson. They’ll need to heavily involve him. Otherwise he’ll still want out. He’ll need to believe in the Seahawks even if big change occurs.

Or if they decide to keep Schneider and run the risk of having to move Wilson — they’ll need to know exactly what the plan is after that. It can’t be the kind of seat-of-your-pants, band-aid-o-rama we’ve seen from this team for so long.

A clear, long term plan for the next 5-10 years will be necessary.

They need to get on the phone to Tod Leiweke and ask him to recommend an individual or group of individuals to guide them through the next six months. The Leiweke’s are the men who get things done in Seattle — Carroll’s arrival, delivering a new arena, bringing the NHL to the city and eventually, returning the Sonics.

I can’t think of anyone better to speak to ahead of what is a gigantic challenge for ownership.

Get this wrong and this franchise could return to the basement of the NFL. What we’ve seen over the last two weeks could be the norm again. We could all be sat at home, watching other teams with their great records be talked up as contenders. All with the Seahawks a mere afterthought. A make up the numbers franchise.

Get it right and there’s no reason at all why the Seahawks can’t bounce back from this season, shift resources back to key areas of the roster and return to contention. They have a franchise quarterback — the one thing any serious contender needs.

Start planning for the future now. Not in January. Now.

If you missed my instant reaction live stream after the game, check it out below. Apologies for the short break in the middle, I had to go outside at 4:45 in the morning to have a go at some blokes who live across the street who were arseing about.

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  1. BK Matty

    Sad to say it but Russ is as good as gone, hes already made his mind up, he wants a change of scenery, a new look and New Orleans is begging for him, its the perfect fit.

    • Rob Staton

      Significant change in Seattle can keep him here

      But it has to be significant change

      • Jordan E

        Hopefully you are right. I dont see how it is in Russ’s best interest to stay with this team and rebuild with a new coach. Miami + Cleveland + New Orleans + Pittsburgh are places that just need a great QB and will be SB contenders with Russ.

        Only hope is Russ wants to go down as the best Seattle sports icon of like all time.

        • Mick

          Russ doesn’t have to build the connection with the WRs if he stays here. He has great results targeting Lockett and Metcalf.

        • Rob Staton

          Russ is not motivated to leave Seattle.

          He just doesn’t believe in the philosophy of PC any more and wants the organisation to prove they are serious about winning

          • GaiusMarius

            Wilson wants Super Bowl rings. I don’t blame him either. I can see a window, a very narrow window where he might consider staying if the Seahawks are aggressive toward change. But even with new management I consider him highly skeptical of Seattle right now (as he should be). If he sees another team like Tampa that seems to have most everything except that awesome QB that will be very enticing vs. the rebuilding the Seahawks will have to do.

            “Just give it another year Russell with the new management” may fall on deaf years as he likely thinks he has already wasted too many years in “stay the course” Seattle.

            I very much hope that I’m wrong.

            • Rob Staton

              “Just give it another year Russell with the new management” may fall on deaf years as he likely thinks he has already wasted too many years in “stay the course” Seattle.

              Sure — which is why they’d need to include him in the process of what’s next

              • Gavin S

                I really don’t understand “Give the keys to Russell Wilson so he can drive the direction of the franchise”. I am really don’t see how any player will be given that much power. Even the GOAT will not get that power. Yes, involve Russ to help in hiring the HC and make sure their thoughts are aligned (Whatever that maybe and I still don’t think any new HC can magically make Russell become an elite pocket passer), but to say, him in a voice to influence the direction of the franchise is not only naive but actually counter productive to building a healthy franchise. Russell hasn’t achieved (he’s not even a 1st team All Pro) to get that and Seahawks organization shouldn’t be that desperate to keep its QB who honestly maybe hitting his ceiling in the next 2 years

                • Rob Staton

                  Hang on a minute…

                  “Yes, involve Russ to help in hiring the HC and make sure their thoughts are aligned”

                  This is all I or anyone else has argued for.

                  I’ve no idea why you’ve written all the other stuff. You’re making it sound like I’ve asked for them to rename the stadium ‘Wilson field’. There’s not a single thing I’ve written to warrant the rest of your post.

        • chet380

          Having happened upon some Denver trade articles, a potential great trade struck me — RW to the Broncos for a 2022 1st and 2nd + a 2023 1st and Von M and Kyle fuller.

          Rw would have to agree — not likely.

  2. no frickin clue


    For those of us not familiar with UK English, what does ‘arseing about’ look like at street level? I’m guessing beer was involved, but that’s just a guess.

    Do you think Jody Allen tells Todd Leiweke “go ahead and make some recommendations on GM and head coach and I’ll sign off on it”? If Daniel Snyder is at one end of the meddling-owner spectrum, then surely Allen is at the other end. I don’t think either approach is good.

    • Rob Staton

      No beer, it’s a Muslim family so they don’t drink.

      Basically they are having a wedding. This means five days of celebration (I think). Pakistani families over here seem to hire out super cars when they have weddings. So they rented a bunch of these crazy sports cars and for some reason picked them up at a ridiculous time in the morning. They were revving the engines at about 4am and it sounded like a F1 race was about to start. The whole street would be awake it was so loud. Right before Seattle’s final snap on offense last night I had to go out there and tell them to pack it in right now. They did. Then another car arrived and was making a huge noise again as we were doing the stream. You probably saw me gesture during the stream and it’s because my wife was going nuts about it. So I went out there and kicked off. They got the message, then I came back in and finished the stream. Then went to bed.

      I hope that explains the UK definition of arseing about in this instance.

      • Ashish

        That is some story… I can imagine some one in middle of night has to deal with such a drama when you have to go to work next day.

      • David Stacey

        Sounds like we all need to up the superchats to get you a house move!!

        Fair play for staying up so late and doing a livestream.
        I’ve started recording and watching in the morning. There used to be something weirdly fun about staying up till 5am UK time watching a seahawks game, not right now

        • Rob Staton

          They’ve been drumming outside the house for an hour.

          I am on the phone to the police, on hold.

          I am tempted to go out there and Kam Chancellor the lot of them.

  3. Sea Mode

    What? There was a game last night…? 😴

    • Cysco

      Not really. A “game” insinuates that the outcome isn’t predetermined.

  4. Bankhawk

    Epic Rob, simply epic. Thinking about what looms on the horizon is somehow, even more of a gut punch than the implosion of The Legion Of Boom after the fateful SB loss to the Pat’s.
    And you’ve nailed all the sadness in which this season seems destined to become enshrouded, and yet have done so by humanizing Pete rather than by demonizing him as some would (probably will, sans some highly implausible turn to the season).
    I have long seen you as a genuine realist, truly keyed into all matters draft-related. And for all that, from a vantage point halfway across the globe, where the NFL could be said to be lower on the totem pole of sport than soccer, tennis and motorsports! But with this latest epitaph for the PC/JS era, I have to say that you’re simply one damned fine writer!

    • Rob Staton

      Thanks Bankhawk.

      The last 18 months have been hard. I’ve had a lot of abuse and grief for simply offering an assessment on this team. And contrary to what some might think, I take no pleasure in being right about a lot of what’s happened. It just seemed so obvious and predictable. I’d rather watch the Seahawks and believe they’re on the right track. There aren’t many bigger Seahawks fans than me. I live and breathe this team — but I’m not going to lie about what I really think, however negative that might be sometimes.

      So when occasionally I get a message like this, it does mean a lot to me. This remains a massive labour of love. The cost of hosting goes up all the time as the site accumulates data. I still commit hours per day to this. To know it’s appreciated by some, even if it’s just a few people, means everything really.

    • Olyhawksfan

      Very well said Bankhawk.

      Rob – really appreciate all you time and effort. It really is the best place for talking Hawks.

      As frustrating as Pete has been these last couple years, if he retires now I’ll have him in a good light. If he doesn’t, the taste in my mouth will forever be sour.

      • Rob Staton


  5. Call Me AL

    A lot has been said in the past few years about how bad the Seahawks are, the roster, coaching, game scheming, the list just goes on and on. What I’ve seen this season, especially the past few weeks without Russell Wilson, is a team that despite its many flaws, being competitive in every game. In fact, if Russell Wilson hadn’t been hurt I could easily seen this team going 10-7 and being in the hunt for a wild card berth.

    The point is, I’ve been in the lets blow this thing up camp, trade RW, new head coach and GM, just completely start over fresh. But what has become abundantly clear for me the last two weeks is what really separates teams in the NFL is the quarterback play. Trading RW and hoping you can find his replacement is just to risky. I’m now surprised that the Bears just didn’t ask JS how many first and second round picks it would take for you to trade RW and that more teams weren’t beating down the Seahawks door.

    It was also suggested that a rebuild of the roster may not take that long. At the time I firmly thought that nothing less than a complete rebuild taking 3-4 years would do. I now agree if you reshuffle where your spending the bulk of your money on defense, Bobby Wagner and Jamal Adams, and put that money to good use on the defensive line you could greatly improve the defense quickly. Add some quality to the offensive line and a good running back, and your not that far from competing for a title.

    Of course it all starts with hiring the right person as head coach this off season. Lets hope ownership is up to the task!

    • Rob Staton

      I agree with a lot of this.

      Prioritise the trenches moving forward and get a proper running back and this team can quickly return to being one nobody wants to play. They do have pieces to work with. Now it’s just about shifting resource from lesser positions to the OL/DL and the next regime need to do a better job acquiring depth.

      • L80

        Yes. Growing up in L.A. in the late 50’s and thru the 60’s the Rams were my team and they always focused on the trenches. It’s exactly where games are decided ultimately in spite of franchise QB’s.

        I mean they had QB’s like Roman Gabriel who while good, wasn’t great or “elite”.

        Their D-Lines nickname was The Fearsome Foursome…..How cool is that?….Not only was it cool but they mostly DOMINATED…..Same with their O-Line. Always very good. Back in those days, no salary cap and guys like Merlin Olson and Rosie Greer played for 10’s of thousands of dollars per year.

        Regardless of my brief history lesson, the same thing is obvious. You must build your lines accordingly. I’m sure RW standing on the sidelines late in the 4th qyuarter last night was re-living his interview about being hit too much…..That was some of the worst attempts at blocking I have ever seen and I’ve seen a lot.

        Ignoring center in this past draft with a second round pick was the dumbest of moves I can think of, especially after what Russ said……Gabe Jackson is your answer????…..Jeezus.

        Not sure how much PC and JS work together about players but whatever it is, JS has only produced a couple of decent picks since 2012, them being Metcalf and Lockett.

        This needs to be addressed immediately. This can’t be acceptable. And thank you Rob for tirelessly pointing all this out and God Bless this Blog. I go to no other places for my Seahawk info.

      • Bankhawk

        Right on, Rob!
        I’ve got visions of GA. Bulldogs in the trenches and Zach Charbonnet or the kid from U of Cincinnati, J Ford, totin’ the rock dancing in my head like sugar plums at Christmas!
        Lots of other Rb’s, and linemen from other places, but those were ones that came to mind without Googling. 😏

  6. AlexG

    Hey Rob , great take!
    Do you see a world where JS stays on if Pete retires and keeps Russ?

    • Rob Staton

      I think it’s unlikely. The only way it happens is if JS appoints a coach RW calls for

      • Simon McInnes

        Do we have a perspective on how much of that is due to the recruiting and scouting structure losing good performers to higher roles on other teams? The buck stops with PC/JS but it maybe their quality of info faded in recent years. If that is the case, then maybe JS stays

        • Rob Staton

          As Jeff noted in our recent live stream, I’m not even sure JS wants to stay

          • SeaTown


            “I’m not even sure JS wants to stay”

            Which is baffling to me. JS has had several chances to leave and get out from under the PC shadow yet he stayed. Why? Comfort? Familiarity? I’ve always been a bit baffled by this. I would love top know how much actual pull JS has. PC always says how they are lock step in terms of making decisions. I wonder iff that is 100% true. If so, JS must go.

      • Tom O

        Let’s start the process. PC and JS had a great, epic run. The league caught up with their (PC’s) defense and we dont have the personal for the old run first with Beast Mode, play action pass days.
        Maybe those great drafts of 2010-2013 were the work of Scott McCloughan (IMO one of the all-time great talent evaluators), maybe it was PC’s high school recruiting knowledge of the players we brought in, or who knows. Clearly the gig is up.
        Who are the next highly recommended as a head coach and GM candidates that you see as the perfect fit in Seattle and to keep Russ happy.

        • Rob Staton

          I’ve discussed Head Coaches a lot. It’s impossible to project who could be a good GM.

          I don’t think we need to diminish the work done between 2010-13 by claiming it was on McCloughan or Carroll’s college background. It’s OK to just accept PCJS did an outstanding job in that period and they got the reset wrong. That’s it.

          • Tom O

            I agree amazing run.
            They had a few legionary drafts that rank with some of the greatest in NFL history.
            In hindsight, they have missing big too often in the draft since 2015. They started trading down too often to gather mid to low round picks, that they didn’t hit on like in the golden years.
            Where can we read about your potential coaching candidates?

            • Tom O

              2015 was solid- Clark, Lockett and Glowinski.
              Better then most.

    • Simo

      I personally hope JS moves on as well. It really feels like a full and complete makeover of the coaching staff and front office personnel is necessary.

      Even if Pete is the final say on personnel matters, JS has certainly had a large role in the poor drafting and desperation trades we’ve seen of late

      It’s really not that surprising to think full scale change is required, all good things run their course in due time. Very few regimes stay relevant for as long as PC/JS have been able to do.

      Let’s hope ownership and the top dogs at Vulcan aren’t asleep at the wheel on all of this.

  7. Submanjoe

    The ownership situation is what concerns me if Pete does leave. Tod Leiweke is the obvious choice, but can they make that call….

  8. Marcus

    PCJS built the best team in franchise history and a generational defense that’ll be talked about as one of the best in NFL history. They did that by setting out with a clear vision and exploiting market/draft inefficiencies. They preached competition and had the courage to start a too-short rookie quarterback when he won the preseason when the money said they should go with Flynn.

    All of that, and more, should be acknowledged and remembered. Pete Carrol has been the franchises best coach. John Schneider has led a front office that changed the way NFL assessed talent. We’ll likely not see a better combo. But that’s not to say it isn’t time to start looking.

    It’s worth mentioning it again, PCJS built the best team in franchise history. It’s also clear that they’ve failed miserably in rebuilding or reloading that team when it got old and injured.

    It’s time to give another group the chance that PCJS were given when they came here. Everything should be on the table.

    • Rob Staton

      Spot on with everything there

      Remember the good times. Celebrate the success.

      But also acknowledge the need for change

      • Jordan E

        Definitely. Id be in favor of Pete being in the ring of honor or something. Legendary Seahawks era under him.

        • Rob Staton

          Pete should be in the ring of honour the day after he announces he’s departing

          A true Seattle legend

          But it’s time for a change

          • Spencer

            You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

      • pdway

        That’s 100% exactly where I am.

        You said it well – we don’t want Pete to stay long enough to become the enemy. He built a team from absolute scratch and made it relevant for a decade plus. But every era has an ending.

        I want him to go out with a standing ovation. But I want him to go.

  9. BK Matty

    backup qbs suck, that is why they are backups. Its the only role in the league where there is almost no real practice, you j ust sit around and know the playbook. If you are developing a young guy he will suck too, thats why hes developing, and that invites an entire new problem when your franchise QB gets upset over it like ARogers every time GB drafts a qb.

    You are just shanked when you have to rely on a backup QB for an extended period of time, especially when your franchise qb has been bullet proof for most of his career.

    Now, Geno truly does suck, but he had us in position to win last night, our kicker missed 2 pretty standard field goals that both should have been made. At the very least one make and we are in OT with a chance.

    Meyers has been an issue all year. He is 6 for 9 and has missed 3 inside 45 yards. He also cost us an xp in the Tenn game that lead to an OT loss. Huge problem.

    • Rob Staton

      Now, Geno truly does suck, but he had us in position to win last night

      More like the defense had us in position to win last night and Geno couldn’t capitalise.

      I sympathise with your point about backup QB’s. But Geno simply isn’t good enough. We’ve known that for three years.

    • Reuben Joseph

      Spot on. Saturday night my brother and I was at the Kraken opener. After Leiweke’s comments to the fans my brother said he is what the Seahawks need right now to provide counsel for the next chapter. Considering he’s local again I would love for him to become a personal advisor to the Seahawks. Great take all around!

    • Ashish

      Geno had 3 chances to win a game, against he started well completed a drive with TD and than interception. PITs game was very easy with injured Ben and so was Saints. If Geno can’t win 1 game from last 3, it is better to play any potential QB who might be a find.
      I will not surprise if they lose against Jaguars, may be that would be a good thing people will question Pete more. All 12 should not go to Lumen field for next game as the protest. We need a change in coaching, coaches are equally blamed for last 2 loss. They knew Geno was in center what did they do? I don’t want to talk about defense that is pathetic but offense? It is run by PC, else who will call RUN – RUN – RUN – RUN when you can’t mustard 1 yard.

    • David Stacey

      Myers’ kicking is concerning.
      It looks to me like his run up is too straight (much like a bad penalty taker in soccer). He rarely nails them through the middle even when he does make it.
      His history is also inconsistent.
      Another odd choice given the size of contract we’ve paid him.

      That said the offense really didn’t help him last night by taking that big sack

    • neil

      Myers got his big payday, now it appears he has slipped into complacency as so many players do.

      • Rob Staton

        He wasn’t complacent last year after getting paid.

        He’s just having a bad year. Or, alternatively, he just had a good year in 2020.

        • TatupuTime

          In my opinion there are very few players that are ever complacent. it is just too hard to get to where NFL players are. The ones that are complacent wash out fairly quickly. Myer had a good year in 2020 preceded by an exceptional year with the Jets in 2019. Every kicker (even the best) have good and bad stretches. It’s just too small a sample size. Myers has had 10 FG kicks this year. Imagine judging a QB solely on 10 throws. Sometimes QBs go 10-10, sometimes they go 5-10. I HATED the process of letting Myers go from training camp and then after a good year with the Jets signing him to a big contract. You were getting pretty much the exact same kicker you could have had for peanuts the year before. But Myers will be fine over the long haul.

  10. STTBM

    Maybe you’re right, Rob, and Carrol will step down. I hope they can JS too, he’s likely to make a power play and dump Wilson for whatever–its human nature.

    I agree whole-heartedly they need Leiweikes back to steer the search.

    But Carrol is already the enemy, in my book. His control-freak decisions on the roster and staff have hamstrung this franchise into the future, and he’s utterly wasted half of Wilson’s career this far.

    I hope he retires, and JS too. Then everyone can paint lipstick on the pig. I’m thankful for what he accomplished, but the past five years have been a total dumpster fire.

    I appreciate the respect you hold for Carrol, but just as he is quick to move on from players who struggle (unless they are Like W, Mayowa, Penny, Adams, Flowers or his other pets), it far past time for him and his entire good old boy network of coaches (especially the defense) to join the unemployed.

    I’m shocked Carrol at least for a moment could admit Pete Ball only worked due to Russ and great talent, and that it no longer works. That’s a level of humility I never thought he possessed. I hope that unlike Holmgrens brief clarity on his past mistakes, Carrols clarity lasts. For his sake.

    • Rob Staton

      Pete deserved the chance to initiate this reset how he saw fit. I have no ill-feeling towards him for that. He and JS deserved to go after this in the way they thought best.

      But now it’s time for a change.

      • Les Thomas

        I agree, and well said Rob. You did a fantastic job writing this up, with no vitriol and alot of respect. I tip my hat to you, Sir!

  11. Hawkdawg

    I’d like to know what the All-22 shows, because the number of times Geno dropped back, hit his back foot…and then did not throw the ball was not exactly what Waldron was supposed to bring to this offense. On the few shots I saw from the backfield, there did not appear to be a lot of separation from our WRs….

    • Rob Staton

      But if you’ve got 1v1 outside you’ve got to throw that. I can recall at least two occasions where he looked at DK in single coverage and hesitated.

  12. AndrewP

    I sent this name to anyone who would listen last night (admittedly this is very few people): Pat Bowlen. In the late 80s/early 90s it became clear Denver ownership had a choice: A very good HC, or a HOF QB.

    Dan Reeves was a damn good coach that had led Denver to three Super Bowls. Bowlen chose to stick with John Elway, because his talent was greater. I’m sure it wasn’t an easy choice, but it was the right one. I hope Jody Allen does the same.

  13. Matt

    I’ve been very critical of PC for the last few years; that presser last night, and specifically that comment legitimately made me feel horrible.

    It’s sad it has come to this – nobody wants to see Pete’s legacy becoming tainted, but the longer he holds on – the more likely that is. Last night was first acknowledgement that he truly understands the gravitas of the situation.

    It really did break my heart. It’s like a vet at the end of a great career who is limping out after a poor season. Sports is wonderful, but outside of rare exceptions – the end of a career is usually not a story book.

  14. AlaskaHawk

    I keep seeing Geno Smith thrown under the bus. Lets get real here, there were two field goals missed last night. Would that have won the game? Maybe…

    Lockett dropped a long pass that was right in his hands.

    The offensive line was crap. Especially Fuller.

    The decision to use Penny as a running back all first half when it was his first game of the season.

    Coaching: Few quick developing pass plays. Insistence to run into the middle of a 9 man defensive box. Did they make any adjustments in half time other than , “Hold my jock strap and watch this?”

    Anyway, we all knew that Geno was a backup. But he needs some help out there. Especially with blocking.

    • Rob Staton

      Nobody’s throwing Geno Smith under the bus.

      We’re just acknowledging that he’s rubbish.

      And he is.

    • Mick

      You don’t lose and win a game on your own. But Geno deserves to be under that bus for extremely poor decisions. He had time to get rid of the damn ball and leave Myers in a better position. We’re a team with very low football IQ and very bad decision making, and that’s way we tie for second last in NFC.

    • 12th chuck

      Geno wasn’t the only one that failed last night, it the the offensive play calling. That was the biggest failure, and it has Pete’s name all over it. Its been the same for YEARS and its time for Pete to go

    • Hebegbs

      Fuller was terrible. I think is was 3 out of 4 plays in a row he completely whiffed his block/assignment.

      Really tough to watch this era come to an end. What a ride though ehh? Just wish we had not traded for Adams and wish we had our first in 2022. And Adams finally was decent last night but still a horrible trade.

      Time for change. With Wilson and new leadership, it might not take that long to be back in it.

  15. Palatypus

    What you get for trading RW depends a lot on when you do it. The fulcrum of leverage being the draft.

    • Rob Staton

      That’s not the pressing issue though

      It’s the need to turn those picks into actual good players to justify the move — then also find a solution at QB

      Unless you have the #1 pick in a great QB draft, it’s insanely difficult to make a situation like this work

  16. Matthew

    Watching Pete on the sidelines was hard. He seemed angry in a way that I’ve not seen before. Actually relieved he’s signaling that he grasps the situation at hand.

  17. cha

    Offensive Grades

    • cha

      Defensive Grades

      • Rob Staton

        Jamal Adams — 52.2

        • bmseattle

          So, his “best game of the season” still grades as below average.
          got it.

          Surprised Fuller graded as well as he did.

          • Hawkdawg

            Astonishing. Because his failures screamed off the screen repeatedly. Against Davis and the DL. He could not anchor to save his life.

            • Hawkdawg

              I was thinking more like the teens…

              • Hebegbs

                Me too. At best…

    • pdway

      god, those pass blocking grades…

      • Big Mike

        Kyle Fuller does not appreciate your post.

        I do though.

    • GoHawksDani

      How did Geno got 64.9? 😀
      And we’re not doing too well in the TE department. Everett 51.8, Dissly 47.5 (wasn’t the story that he’s good at blocking?), Parkinson 46.1
      Good to see Amadi and Brooks got solid grades. Even Sidney Jones got a good grade. But our safeties suck badly…Neal 27.2, Blair 46.7 (ok, he played nickel), Adams 52.2, Diggs is OKish with 62.

      Tbh I don’t see major red flags apart from Adams, just a bunch of mediocre guys

  18. Rick

    Great articles Rob and fully agree that changes need to be made.

    I disagree that they should be made around Wilson.
    I understand that having a franchise quarterback is a key to being competitive.
    But in this division where the Cardinals are looking elite, the Rams very good, and the 49ers competitive its time for the Seahawks to rebuild for the future so that they are going up when those teams are on the way down.

    Too much money tied up in too few people.
    I am a fan of Schneider and would let him build a rebuild. But I grant it is from an outside opinion without knowing how many of the moves made which have been disastrous to the organization are Carroll’s call and how many were joint decisions. If they are joint decisions than it is time for them both to go. If they were in the end Carroll’s calls and Schneider has a three year plan to rebuild than I would stay with him. Take the cap savings and start the process of rebuilding the franchise.

    Let Carroll ride off into the sunset.
    Release the entire coaching staff. Maybe keep Waldron depending on the new head coach.
    Trade Wilson. See if he will go to the Giants and in the return bring back Daniel Jones and
    Trade Wagner.
    Trade Adams. For anything to get rid of the contract and to move on from the horror he has become on the field.
    Resign Brown.

    Rebuild around a young QB and then start looking at the draft to find the next QB.

    Rebuilding around Wilson will still take a lot of work to fill the holes. A top five highest paid QB is going to squeeze your resources. It will keep the Seahawks competitive with all the other teams in the division. But it will mean an empty cupboard of futures and a scorched earth approach when the team eventually says goodbye to Wilson.

    Saying goodbye now allows for more cap space to spread out around the roster.
    Allows for young prospects and picks to be brought into the organization.
    Allows for a change in culture on the field as well as with the coaching.

    • AlaskaHawk

      More importantly, Wilson said he wanted to be traded if things don’t change. What has changed on the offensive line? You have 2 solid players in Lewis and Brown, and Brown is getting up there in age. I would really like to see them draft three more offensive linemen that can be starters and a premium running back. That pretty much uses up next years draft.

      I still think it will take 3 years to turn the team around. And that puts us into Wilson’s next contract. He likes being the highest paid QB in the league so – well we can all speculate on how he will view Patrick Mahomes contract.

      Anyway – I don’t think they will recruit or find 3 more offensive linemen. So the pass protection and blocking will be poor to medium level again next year. Which means Wilson will be mad and want to leave again. You my as well trade him while he still has value – if he really wants to leave.

      If that means finding another QB so be it. Carroll has made zero effort in finding a backup QB as Wilson has always been healthy.

      • GaiusMarius

        I agree with that timeline if some things go right.

        I also (sadly) think that Wilson will see a similar timeline and the choice is easy…
        – 3 more seasons before the Seahawks really gel again…
        – A trade to a team that is ready to compete NOW.

        • Rob Staton

          People keep saying this ‘three seasons before the Seahawks gel’

          It’s not based on anything. Three years is just plucked out of nowhere.

          Meanwhile the Niners went from Top-2 pick to the Super Bowl in ONE OFF-SEASON.

          • cha

            The Seahawks have a franchise QB, 2 star WRs, rising young players like Darrell Taylor, Alton Robinson, Damien Lewis and (maybe) Dee Eskridge and Tre Brown.

            And they have a franchise QB.

            The only bad contract on the books is Adams’. Even then, it is not beyond the realm of possibility a real defensive coordinator could make use of Jamal Adams for at least one season until they can clear him off.

            And they have a franchise QB.

            They have as much as $65million in cap room and another $16m they can gain from Bobby Wagner.

            And did I mention they have a franchise QB?

            The cupboard is not bare for a new mgmt group to take over.

            • pdway

              I’d add Poona, Diggs, Reed, and even Brooks (on his rookie dea)l – as all serviceable guys.

              It’s O-line and pass rush…same as it ever was. But new schemes too, our zone defenses get shredded by any above-average passing attack.

              • cha

                Diggs and Reed are free agents next year.

                Poona is $9.675m against the cap next year. He is still just a run stuffer with little to no pass rush chops.

                But if you want to count him as an asset, be my guest.

          • GoHawksDani

            Yeah, but the niners had a top2 pick. Hawks has an R2 pick.
            They have around 62M for next season, but only 32 players under contract.
            Notable FAs: Diggs, Brown, Reed, Everett, Woods, Neal, Collins, Dissly, Shell.
            I think they should re-sign Reed, maybe Everett, Neal, Collins, and maybe Shell, and Diggs.
            Let’s say that’s 5m avg for them which would be 30m total.
            32M and 38 players under contract.

            Trade Jamal for an R3. I think it should be doable. He sucks here, but if you can sell that it’s a scheme mismatch you should get an R3 for him at least. That is -15M, but an R3 pick. (17M available CAP)

            Trade Bobby for an R3-4. I know he’s aging, but he’s still great and pretty much a plug’n’play guy. Really high floor but now he has a lower ceiling. I think you should get at least an R4 for him, as he won’t elevate defenses by himself, but he’s a leader, so for a young defense he could be the person they need. It’d also give us almost 17M (34M available CAP)

            Based on the roster these are the needs:
            Good DT and DT depth (someone who can penetrate and stop the run and 1-2 cheaper vets or late round additions)
            Good DE (Taylor and Robinson showed some promise, but they’re young. Dunlap is hot and cold, and the rest should be backups, so we need someone who’s at least as good as Dunlap, but someone better would be…well…better)
            Decent LB (OLB if Brooks can play inside, or ILB in place of Bobby. We don’t need a superstar, but at least someone decent)
            SS? (We might roll with Neal or Diggs…not sure how much the coaches would trust him to start)

            Good LT (starter, hopefully a franchise LT)
            Good C (starter)
            Probably a decent RB (Carson is not the future, neither is Collins. We can roll with Carson, Collins, Homer for now, but they might wanna invest into an raw RB who could develop as a starter in the next 1-2 years)
            Good TE (we lose Dissly, which is not a huge lost, but we can’t just roll with Everett and Parkinson, we need a good TE and an OC who is using them)

            I think that is the minimum we need.
            CAP: 34M
            Picks: R2, R3, R3 (from Adams), R4 (from Bobby), R4, R4, R5, R7
            Let’s say we have an early R4 and we can trade R4+R4+R7+ next year’s R6 for a mid-late R3.
            Picks after that: R2, R3, R3, R3, R4, R5

            We might be able to get a good C in R3, a good TE in R3, decent LB in R3 and a good DT in R2 and DT depth in R4 and maybe a raw but has potential RB in R5 for example.

            we’d need a good LT and DE from FA.
            Terron Armstead and Cam Robinson will be FAs. I don’t know about LTs much, but we could probably get them for 25m APY and 13m APY (based on sportrac market value estimation). We could limit Armstead’s 1st year hit to 13m, so we’d have 21M left.

            We’d have 42 players under contract if I counted right.
            Remove draft contracts and cheaper FA fills from the CAP and we’d left with around 11m or so in available CAP

            I don’t see many younger (30 or less y/o) passrushers entering the market, but there are some potential vet stopgaps who was good earlier (JPP, Chandler Jones), and some younger guys who can give you 3-7 sacks. Definitely doable for 11m CAP space.

            OK. I tried to argue with you, that is impossible to re-build in one year when you have mediocre CAP, not a lot signed guys and few picks, but I convinced myself, that if they get lucky and hit on everything well, they could do it 😀

            • Rob Staton

              So the difference between gaining the #2 pick and going to the SB is ONE pass rusher??

              Come on

              People trying to make out it has to take three years to be good again are trying too hard

              • Rick

                49ers draft pick history is not just one year.
                This is the first round overall pick history.
                Rebuilding takes time.

                2016 they picked 7
                2017 they picked 3
                2018 they picked 9
                2019 they picked 2

                This is where the three years comes from.
                It will be the same for the Rams and the Cardinals history.

          • GaiusMarius

            Frankly, I don’t think Wilson is willing to wait even 1 more season, let alone 3. New management could convince him otherwise, but it’s a tall hill to climb and a complete unknown at this point. Psychologically, we have to understand that he must have heard the same promises, the same lines for YEARS before finally getting fed up after last season. That’s burned through a lot of Seahawks credit, even if it won’t be Pete anymore.

            I find it exceedingly less likely that with limited draft capital and the many poor decisions that have tied up $$$ in the wrong spots (all wonderfully highlighted here) that the Seahawks become Super Bowl contenders sooner rather than later. Or at least that there chances are lower than say teams like the Saints (decent D, awesome running back, adaptable coach – there are 3 things the Seahawks don’t currently have right there and likely will not have next season).

            Sure there are exceptions like the Niners, but those are exceptions and I credit Wilson with the eyes to see that. 🙂

            The clock is ticking on Wilson and his first stint missing time due to injury will do nothing except heighten that urgency. It’s not all lost. There are ways to convince Wilson to stay, I’m just not as optimistic.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Rebuild around a young QB and then start looking at the draft to find the next QB.

      Ok, but who? It has to be a name not a vague description like “a young QB”.

      There is no QB in this draft that you could reasonably expect to rebuild around. Certainly not where the Seahawks will make their first pick. So it has to be a QB already in the League.

      Name that QB please.

      Also, I’m kind of stupefied that after 3 weeks of the Geno Smith follies that there are folks who still think moving on from Russell Wilson is the right move. Personally, I can’t think of anything that would return the franchise to the dark ages of the 1990s faster than parting ways with Wilson.

      • AlaskaHawk

        First of all Geno is a backup that hasn’t played in years. Come on guys. And it was the field goal kicker that lost the game for them last night. Not Geno.

        Second of all – Wilson is no guarantee. He’s just a security blanket. Given a good team he can get you to the playoffs. That he has shown. But where is the spark that gets you over the top? Witness the Rams game last year. I know we all blame Pete, but some of that is on Wilson. How does Wilson have a decent to great first half of the season and then collapse in the second half? How is it he can have a great QBR this year and yet barely score points? I just don’t see him as improving beyond what he is now. Maybe that is enough, but in the last 5 years it hasn’t been.

        Third of all – Everyone want a name for a replacement. Since it will take them 3 years to rebuild, you can delay that decision. It’s down the road. And he may not be as good as Wilson but he could be better for the team.

        • Starhawk29

          We can blame meyers for missing field goals, but the saints can blame their wrs for dropping deep passes. Getting into the what ifs does not change the outcome. And lets be honest about Geno: he’s not good, even as a backup. There is a saying that a good backup will win you 3 games, and also lose you 3. Geno is not a threat to win games. Id argue that more often than not, when a backup qb comes in following injury, there is a sudden run of success (see Taylor Heineke, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mark Sanchez, or any backup playing the hawks). Gardner Minshew gives this team a better chance for success. John Wolford might give us a better chance. Geno is a bad qb, and it’s obvious on tape and from our playcalling.

          Saying Wilson is no guarantee is also flawed, largely because that’s exactly what he is. He single handedly dragged us to 9 wins in 2017. He lifted the team back when everything was going wrong in 2015. He’s a human being, he’ll have bad days and make mistakes. But he is guaranteed success, his record and stats are proof of that. I would not bet that the team can find a replacement in the next 10 years, because it’s well established as the hardest thing to do in the NFL. Miami is still trying to replace Marino!

  19. Chris

    Rob – I can’t express how much I enjoy your commentary, even when it’s not what I’d like to hear about the Hawks. Reality bites. But I’ve come to appreciate your clarity when it comes to something you both love and understand in depth.

    I’m not an X and O guy. I couldn’t tell you the difference between blocking schemes, or safety rotations or anything. But the one thing I know is that the NFL is absolutely brutal in finding a weakness and exploiting it. It might take a season or two, but if you have a weakness and don’t compensate for it, the other teams will use it to defeat you.

    When PC/JS first came on the scene they pushed hard on the rules; defensive backs made a lot of contact that the refs just wouldn’t call. They stressed big, physical backs, who could not only cause PBUs, but also excelled in run support. On offense Pete focused on running well, and explosive downfield passes.

    So the NFL watched, copied, adapted. Now the deep ball is gone because defenses play two deep safeties. If you have a great RB and a decent line, you can punish that. But most offenses don’t. Most are designed around the quick passing game etc. and don’t like to run as much.

    The thing that has struck me about Pete is his complete unwillingness to adapt to competitive changes. Whether it’s rules changing the physicality of defensive backs, or def coordinators taking away his explosive passes. He seems to be committed to running a style of offense and defense that is out of fashion, and that he lacks the personnel for.

  20. BK Matt

    it would be fantastic to watch a well coached team for once. Ive always bemoaned that PC is really a bad tactical coach and poorly organized. He isnt just sloppy with time outs and organization, he doesn’t care to sharpen it up. How many times have we blown timeouts mid 3rd quarter or not gotten guys on or off the filed in time.

  21. Rad_man

    They tried to keep the band together too long after 2015, then botched the reset. And as we all well know, it’s not just Penny, LJ, and Jamal…it’s passing or missing on so so many players at positions of need that were available after they picked.

    The had a dozen or more shots at very good or excellent players in the last 4 years and just missed them.

    Kenny clark
    Chris Jones
    Xavien Howard
    Darius Leonard
    Harold Landry
    Fred Warner
    Montez Sweat

    King Henry
    Dalvin Cook
    Nick Chubb
    Johnathon Taylor
    Najee Harris
    Javonte Williams

    Budda Baker
    Winfield Sr
    Travon Diggs
    Jordan Fuller

    Frank Ragnow
    Elgton Jenkins
    Jawaan taylor

    AJ Brown
    Pittman Jr

    That’s 25 players since 2016 that are good to great at positions they were specifically looking for, all picked after they had a shot at them. Basically 5 players a year and they missed on all of them at positions we all know they needed.

    Obviously not saying they should have gotten a star player every draft…but jeez

    and who knows how those players pan out here, but come on…

    2020 looks like a solid draft with some promise…and 2019 gives us DK. so that’s commendable… but then from 2016, 2017, 2018, absolutely nothing worth anything but replacement level JAG.

    No team can survive that kind of talent bleed.

    Then the head scratching garbage in FA…. and the JA trade….


    • MoondustV

      Actually you can add many more stellar names to this list if 2013-14 drafts were included, TJ Watt, Travis Kelce, Jarvis Landry, Eddie Jackson, even Alvin Kamara…you get it, it’s a obvious pattern now.

      • Rad_man

        Yes, wasn’t meant to be exhaustive, just guys off the top of my head.

        Point being, like you said, it’s an obvious failure. The excuse about not having a high pick is garbage. Teams find good to great players all through the first three rounds on a regular basis. There are dozens they seahawks have passed on.

        That can’t happen this much and you stay employed. Just cannot. A simple truth in the league

  22. cha

    Grading my watch points

    This sentence from my post rung in my ears all night:

    He has the Saints playing extremely clean football, with the fifth fewest penalties and the fifth best turnover differential in the league.

    The Seahawks won the penalty battle and the turnover battle in a rare sloppy Saints performance. They could not take advantage.

    Contain Alvin Kamara
    Grade: D+

    The good: 2.55 yards per rush on 20 rushes is outstanding.

    The bad: 10 receptions on 11 targets for 128 yards is not.

    The ugly: The touchdown catch. There is no way on God’s green earth you leave Alvin freakin Kamara that wide open. No way. Inexcusable.

    The defensive line must step up
    Grade: C

    Al Woods had a terrific game marred by an unexplainable penalty. Is there not a procedure in the huddle where somebody says “okay fellas, 4th and 5, even the most minor penalty gives them another shot at a touchdown” ?

    2 sacks. But Winston had plenty of time to make plays.

    On the TD to Kamara, he had time to collect a bad snap, read the field and deliver a strike.

    He had runs of 18, 9 and 7 yards.

    How does Benson Mayowa log 58 snaps to Alton Robinson and Carlos Dunlap’s 29 each? Seriously. How?

    Play your game on offense
    Grade: D-

    Fantastic opening play to Metcalf. He’s got Lattimore wrapped around his finger. Burned him early and drew personal fouls. Clearly he’s got something going and came ready to play.

    Then the offense decided to ignore him for the rest of the game. What’s the point of having star wide receivers that can change games if your quarterback cannot/will not get him the ball?

    And if the Saints truly did adjust and take Metcalf away deep, how do the Seahawks not adjust to that and send Metcalf on crossing routes to take advantage of all that open space?

    Where is the creativity in the passing game? Where are the simple throws to help out a clearly inferior backup QB?

    Gerald Everett with one brilliant fly sweep run for 12 yards. Then 3 dumpoff style catches and one big dumb fat penalty to wipe out all his gains for the night.

    Will Dissly not even targeted.

    And Geno.

    In the first quarter, Geno took a snap dropped back, scanned the field quickly and then took off running for 12 yards and a first down. Hallelujah. No waiting for the pass rush to envelop you. Decisive and crisp.

    That was the last bit of real thinking football we witnessed from him. The rest of the game we saw indecision, causing his own sacks and a total lack of field awareness.

    If you don’t have phenomenal athletic traits, you have to must play with even above-average football IQ. Mission failure.

    On two of his sacks, I was able to count to 5 from the snap.

    The running game. Clearly plunging forward up the middle was not working. Kyle Fuller could not contain (checks notes) a linebacker in the running game.

    Practically every time the Seahawks attacked the perimeter they had success. But no. Let’s keep sending guys right up the gut.

    Win in the red zone
    Grade: C-

    The offense had zero snaps in the red zone. Zero.

    The Saints made three trips and came away with 13 points to win the game.

    Kudos to the defense for holding the Saints offense to 1 for 3 in the red zone.

    A goal line stop at the 2 yard line and a sack for a 7 yard loss at the 8 yard line held the Saints to field goals and kept the team in the game.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Lets not forget two muffed field goals. Can’t we find someone better than Meyers? Probably find one in the 4th or 5th round.

    • bmseattle

      the inability to get the ball to DK is inexcusable.
      If anything, a backup QB should be going to the star WR even *more* than the starter.

  23. BoiseSeahawk

    Any thoughts on S Bubba Bolden out of Miami as a early-mid draft selection?

    He had an unfortunate incident at USC that kept him off the field prior to injury (underage drinking as a college freshman, who hasn’t done that) but he had a ton of potential coming in. A 6’3″ 200lb safety seems about right to maybe test Blair a bit. I’ll admit I have been a Blair hater since day 1, my knock on him seems to be coming to fruition that he is too slight to try and be anything like his mentor in our defense (Chancellor).

    I am open to the idea of trading Adams, Penny, Collier to collect a proven vet or 2 in other positions of need (CB, RB2, QB2). But I would also support getting an early draft pick as collateral to get a CB like Mykael Wright out of Oregon.

  24. Rob Staton

    Fudged the question on Carroll’s comments about Wilson.

    Turned into a wooly question about HC/QB relationships

    • Rad_man

      it’s why the Boston fan base rejected him. No sand.

    • bmseattle

      He’s simply afraid to piss off Pete.
      Rather kiss his butt, which is what Pete wants and probably why he agreed to do the show with Salk.

  25. Rob Staton

    I frickin love this answer by Mike Tomlin:

    • cha

      Same but with a few more seconds tacked on on both sides.

      The staring the press down and getting up and ending the press conf in a huff was fantastic as well.

      • Rob Staton

        Mike Tomlin is a BAMF

        I like him

        • STTBM

          I liked him too till he tried to trip a kick returner headed for a TD. An unbelievably disgusting and blatant instance of cheating. I can’t forgive him. He’s now at the bottom of my list of coaches with Cowturd, Mike Shanahan, and Bellicheat.

    • Ashish

      Awesome, never say never but never anyone else have a question 🙂 wow

    • Matt

      Tomlin is the man. I wonder if they are a dark horse for RW this coming offseason?

      They have some nice pieces in place…super tough division though – that’d be the big hang up for RW, I would think.

  26. Pran

    Pete has failed to leave succession plan in place. I would have expected him to do that after literally running Seahawks these last few seasons and leaving his mark on the future.

    • Rob Staton

      Well he left USC in tatters so the fact he might bail with Wilson still on the roster is at least something. Yet whoever takes over has to deal with no R1 pick (probably be top-12) and inherit the Jamal Adams shambles.

      • Ashish

        I hope Russ stays that will be good start and new coach try to recover/cut loss with Adams right away. It is bad no doubt about it.

  27. RBH

    Rob, what would you do if you were in charge right now? Start trading away Wagner, Adams and anyone else with overly large wage before the trade deadline? Write this season off? Or do you finish the season with the current roster and start again in January? How many draft picks would you be targeting in what you suggest is a poor draft class? Or do you focus on FA?

    • Rob Staton

      I’d happily trade Adams but you won’t get anything for him

      • DK

        Ditching Adams might not get much of a return, but long term cap flexibility and being able to structure contracts around that would aid in speeding up the rebuild. Get Russ an offensive line that can block for him and bring in some running backs that can be featured in the passing attack as well. The offense can make a quick turn around.

  28. Gross MaToast

    Florio speculating that RW may try and force his hand now and be traded to a contender in-season:

    “If he’s going to make another play to get out after what quickly is becoming a lost season, why not make the play now?”

    • Rob Staton

      There is 0% chance of that.

      For starters, the Seahawks would be giving a team a chance to elevate their draft stock, making their takings worse.

      When they trade Wilson they’ll need to know exactly what they’re getting. Wilson knows that.

  29. Big Mike

    If anyone is so inclined and can find and post the first 3 or so minutes of Cowherd’s show from today it’ll sound exactly like all the things Rob in particular and many of us in general have been saying about Pete and the state of the franchise. Also, he often repeats his opening stuff at the beginning of hour 3 which is 11 AM Pacific (20 mins. from now as I post this).

  30. Scot04

    I was thinking how much PC’s comments also emboldened Mark Rodgers.
    Definitely can’t see JS looking forward to dealing with him after the season.
    Looking more and more like JS could go with PC.
    Our HC gave the answer that gives Wilson’s camp a whole lot of power.
    Will be a very interesting offseason.
    I’m just hoping the 2022 season starts with Russell Wilson at QB for the Seahawks.
    Love your offseason plan without PC & JS; hoping we get some version of it.

  31. Paul Cook

    There is only one thing this year that stands out to me as something that I has not been fully accounted for on this site: The Shane Waldron experiment. Just about everything else has been presciently forecasted and accounted for in terms of what is now the implosion of this second act, or attempt at a reset/rebuild for the franchise post LOB.

    Except for a few brief flashes here and there, I didn’t see any improvement in our offensive scheming, anything that looked much different than in recent years concerning the limitations and lack of creativity, innovation and approach to our offensive philosophy.

    I know that our lack of addressing our needs on the offensive line played a big role in our horribly inconsistent offensive production this year. And of course RW’s injury.

    But the Shane Waldron experiment has been pretty much a bust to me when it came to the reinvention of our offense. Even RW didn’t look newer and improved under this supposedly new system. And Geno Smith couldn’t even seem to get the ball out when he needed to last night causing us to blow whatever chances we had to win the game.

    What’s been new about our offense with Waldron? And if he did bring bring new things to the table, it seems that nobody was paying much attention to him.

    Am I wrong about this?

    • cha

      I know at one point I predicted that Waldron was a sop to make Russell Wilson happy, and that Pete would ignore him and keep running the offense.

      I think that is the most likely explanation of what has happened at this point.

      • Big Mike


      • Paul Cook

        Last night I officially imploded when it came to the Shane Waldron experiment. Last night was another blown opportunity to design a game plan that included a passing game that got the ball out quick and took what was available for a QB of limited abilities. If Geno Smith could have moved the chains just a few more times, we probably win the game. It was that close.


  32. CWagner

    The Jamal Adams trade pisses me off more and more the further we get into the season. Every week we watch Jamal’s lack of production and every week we see our previous first round draft pick dip lower and lower. I wasn’t a fan of the trade in the first place but I still tried to remain positive. And as much as I didn’t want to believe Rob’s “negative” attitude about the trade and our defense, I always knew he was right. Welp, here we are.

  33. coach62344

    Rob, agree with you on so many points. I am worried about the uncertainly on the ownership front. You pointed out in a previous article that Jody Allen inherited this team. She did not ask to be the owner. My question is it wise to demand a change to happens to change when ownership is unwilling or at a point unable to make the changes needed.

    Perhaps you could do an article in the future that highlights the ownership perspective regarding the team. What they are doing, what they can do and what they are not doing. Just some examples.

    Also wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your articles. Your insights can be a period of sadness but I would prefer sadness with reality. One of your great strengths as a writer I deeply admire is your ability to offer thoughtful criticism of an individual in one post and then defend the same individual in another post when you think that is the right thing to do. Thank you Rob for all that you do for us. Thank you Rob.

    • Rob Staton

      I have no insight on the ownership. I don’t think anyone does. But that doesn’t mean they won’t act. It just means we don’t know what they’re going to do.

      Appreciate the kind words too.

      • GaiusMarius

        I think one insight is that in another franchise with the same ownership they fired the coach for poor performance (Portland Trailblazers this past June).

        That doesn’t mean that action for the Seahawks is predestined, but is an example that the ownership is not just standing pat, granted it is for another team. 🙂

        • Big Mike

          The difference is that the Blazers are structured more traditionally with a (totally shit imo) GM above the head coach. Seahawks have the HC, Pete as the top dog. People who ask for John to fire Pete don’t understand that he’s under Pete.

  34. Alexander J Higgins

    Is there any point in trying to move some players for picks before the trade deadline? Apologies if this has been covered already. How about Quandre Diggs? Duane Brown can’t be sticking around long term. DJ Reed? I’m trying to brainstorm about players who aren’t under club control next year. Alex Collins? He’s been good but he can’t be a long-term solution.

    • Rob Staton

      What are you getting though??

      And we need to be mindful of the QB here. Giving up won’t help things there.

    • Mick

      I’d be happy to get some players out of the way, but not those who deliver every week.

      • James Cr.

        I do think Diggs is the one player I would consider, although the timing of Blair getting hurt isnt great. I think you could at least get something decent for him and no way will he be here next year.

        • GoHawksDani

          Nahh, Diggs is one of our better player on defense.
          Trade him, Reed and maybe Woods or Ford and we’re pretty much eating 30-40 points/game

  35. Jordan

    It is stale and time for a change.

    I have to imagine PC/JS are tired too, and might be looking for a fresh experience. No shame in it all. Heads held high and legacies set; it it is rare that any regime ends on a high note. Andy Reid in Phi, McCarthy/Thompson in GB, it is just really tough to end any long-tenured regime with a positive. Heck, I have a hard time envision the Belichick era ending on a high note.

    Commit to Russ long-term. I don’t doubt him when he says he wants to play into his 40s, or his ability to do so. His game has aged really well even as his wheels have diminished a bit. He takes phenomenal care of himself. Get a HC who seems to get the most out of his QB: Moore, Roman, Daboll come to mind.

    In a sport where you build/rebuild with grown men as opposed to teenage prospects (baseball, hockey, basketball), a regime change can turn things really quickly as long as the QB is in place.

  36. GoHawks5151

    I’ve had a Niner fan friend that’s been talking for weeks about a split coming for Shanny and the Niners. Resentment over Lance, and other front office issues. This is the group that ran Harbaugh out after all.

    NFL live or First Take just touched on the subject directly after talking about Pete. Mina proposing Pete retiring and Shanny moving up to Seattle. Seems crazy enough to work.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s gone seriously sour with Shanahan.

      Mina is a bit too obsessed with philosophy of offense. So not surprised she’s down for that. As much as I respect Shanahan I’m also wary of what’s been happening over there. They’ve made a complete dogs dinner of the QB situation over the years. He’s overseen bizarre roster decisions and blown picks too.

    • Jordan

      I’d be very interested in Shanahan as the OC. Definitely not as the HC.

  37. Paul Cook

    There is little doubt that the climate has changed, like that weather vane spinning around and settling in the opposite direction at the beginning of Mary Poppins. The state of the Seahawks’ franchise, the downfall, the end of an era, blah, blah, blah… The funny thing is a couple of tweaks here or there and we could easily be a 4-3 team.

    I guess it’s safe for all the critics to jump in the water now. Critical mass for it has been achieved.

    On a positive note, the attention and concern of ownership has probably been given a good jab.

  38. J.P.

    Obviously if Wilson wants to be here, then you’d try to commit to that and such.

    In the situation where he’s signaling he just wants out no matter what, and they all know it, I wonder if this wouldn’t open the opportunity for John and Pete to start anew with a complete tear-down or whatever.

    • JJ

      At this stage if Wilson is out why would you want Pete and John handling a rebuild?

      • J.P.

        It’s not up to me. It’s just a thought I had considering different scenarios. Why are we so sure Wilson wants to be here in 2022 again? Like right after all the news about them getting an OC that he was part of selecting, he comes out and starts up all the off-season drama and more or less is asking politely to consider trading him.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Carroll is gone at the end of this season. Period.

      We already know Wilson won’t stay if Carroll does.

      And now we know that without Wilson, Carroll leaves.

      “I’ve been here a long time. Without Russell, I wouldn’t have been here a long time.”

      There will be no second rebuild for Pete Carroll in Seattle.

  39. Sea Mode

    Beast Mode aptly summarizing my thoughts on the game:

    • GoHawksDani

      I want Lynch as a commentator for ALL games 😀

  40. Sea Mode

    So there it is: our veteran backup QB cannot be asked to throw further than 10 yds.

    Bob Condotta

    Per PFF, Geno Smith last night was 11-12 on throws of 10 yards or less target depth for 83 yards. He was 1-7 on throws of 10 yards or longer for 84 yards. So, 0-6 on throws beyond 10 yards after the Metcalf TD in the first quarter.

  41. Andrew M

    The local 710 crew is not ready for this divorce. They just seem like they are in complete denial about how big these issues are, from Salk doing a daily retreat in his questions, to John Clayton not even accepting that firing Ken Norton is reasonable. The radio talk today has mostly been about how the team can make the playoffs, and turn this season around. If this team manages to make a weak 7 spot wild card, they would be blown out the very next game. And honestly, that just might be the worst possible scenario for ownership because it could send signals the Seahawks are just a player away and sone good luck from a championship.

    • Andrew M

      Just a few of the probable NFC wild card teams: Rams, Vikings, Saints. And we’ve lost to all of them. Yet another ignominious possibility: if we lose to the Jaguars on Sunday the Seahawks will have a worse record than they do. If anyone were to suggest to a Seahawks fan back in the summer that the team could actually be worse than the Jaguars at one point, That fan might jokingly say, “Well if that happens then just fire everybody and start over. But that ain’t happening.”

    • James Z

      I hear ya about 710. I stopped listening to Clayton couple of years ago. He has talked about how objective he is because he’s a journalist and yet he’s a true homer in all thing Seahawks, especially related to management decisions. Salk also talks about how he ‘tells it like it is’ and yet when it’s someone he perceives as having more power he kowtows like a child to an over-bearing parent.

      • Roy Batty

        I can’t stand 710 over here in Spokane. They removed national programming to play Salk and a few other Seahawk homers. I used to listen to it on my commute, since the national commentators and personalities informed me of other things going on in sports, but no more. It’s just so, so bad that I would rather listen to commercials on another station than the 710 garbage.

        Salk is probably my least favorite personality of all. He tries to be a poor man’s Cowherd, but the guy feeds off the Carroll hype train, non-stop. I get it. He has a weekly show with Pete and doesn’t want to step on any toes. However, don’t spew crap about how you are impartial when you clearly need Pete to keep your show relevant. His take on the Seahawks is so out of touch with reality that you have to wonder how many people buy into his propaganda?

  42. BobbyK

    It would be a fitting end for Carroll to lead this team to a playoff berth with a losing record. Then they could have a memorable Wild Card win before getting blown out the following week. It’d also be nice to leave the Jets picking in the 20s.

    • Bankhawk

      Bobby, good one. No, great one!

  43. JimQ

    Over the years most sports evolve and change, not always to the positive. Back in the late 1950’s, early 1960’s, my wife was a competitive ice skater for years & was actually an alternate on the 1964 Olympics team. In those days the Russians dominated the sport with VERY “exceptional” grace and “smooth” dance style movements. Unfortunately, in those days the sport was also very “political”. The parents that put on the best pre-competition parties typically had a big leg up for advanced placement. That’s primarily why my wife quit when she was 20, after a Dr’s. daughter placed 2-nd and went on to the Olympics ahead of her, despite 2 falls to none.

    The current situation of competitive ice skating is that it has become very much a “jumping contest”, with the winner seemingly being the one that completed the most jumps, regardless of a lack of grace and smooth dance style movements. In other words, it has become a different sport with a different goal than in “the old days”. Ice skating isn’t the only sport that has changed, the NFL has as well.

    I would submit that the NFL has changed significantly in the last 20-30 years with much less employment of the old ways, the “young” generation of offensive minded coaches & the deemphasis on the importance of the running game. Prolific passing offences have become commonplace and standard, except with the “old” timers, like Pete Carroll. The NFL has changed and the Seahawks need some new “young” blood to get caught up and get back into the chase for a SB sometime this decade (hopefully).

    • BobbyK

      Yes. Everything changes. But I do believe Pete’s offensive philosophy works well when you invest in the horses to make it run properly. To get rid of a Max Unger and continually go with bums from Drew Nowak to Kyle Fuller at Center is baffling. The Center is the QB of your OL.

      Whether you want to be a power running team or finesse passing team – you need that horse. After Center, you need to win more than you lose at the LOS on both sides of the ball. They continually say they want to be the bully, but they never invest in the resources to actually be the bully. If you add Creed Humphrey and Jack Conklin to this OL and give it a Nick Chubb or healthy JK Dobbins – you could do what Pete wants to do and Russ would be happy because they team would be seriously competing for championships.

      They’ve prioritized too many areas that aren’t on the LOS and they are failing because of it. Or have failed since this season may very well be over. I believe in various types of philosophies if they have the right talent to make it work.

      Pete’s offense doesn’t work because his OL isn’t good enough and there’s no RB good enough to lead the way. Chris Carson is always hurt and can’t carry the rock 20+ times per game when he’s healthy. His backup is a 1st round bust who is terrible. And the other guy is a player nobody else wanted this past offseason and he looks better than the former 1st round pick (which isn’t saying much).

      If you could put Ryan Kelly, Quenten Nelson, and Jonathan Taylor on this Seahawks roster with Russ – it’s good enough to control the ball/clock and people would talk about how running the football never goes out of stye. Instead, the Seahawks waste a draft pick on an overpaid has been guard, trot Kyle Fuller out there, and go with a clown patrol at RB and wonder why their philosophy doesn’t work. It’s not the philosophy that’s wrong – it’s the bums they have to execute it.

      • CHaquesFan

        I agree with you completely. Pete’s philosophy is a working one; it’s just that you can’t do it with a subpar OL and a terrible D. You need to invest in the lines and get players that fit (like Damien Lewis)

      • STTBM

        Bobbyk, I still think trading Unger had to happen. He missed more than half a season two years in a row to injury: his body couldn’t hold up to Cables systems demands. Him going to NO, where they passed all the time, was the best thing that ever happened to his career. He stayed fairly healthy and had a much longer career, with much less wear and tear, than if he’d stayed in Seattle.

        Now, that doesn’t excuse Seattle’s deliberate undervaluing of the position since, not the parade of incompetent, physically limited dunces they’ve trotted out since. But that is a separate deal.

        • JimQ

          The PC running game is almost ALL – runs “up the gut” – “stop us if you can” with not many variables. Their RB’s are always hurt because they are constantly asked to go up the middle and with the current OL, it’s always been very much an uphill battle. PC doesn’t have the horses for that approach anymore especially on the OL. Note that RB’s typically are giving up +/- 100-lbs. to the DL guys.

          A good example is Penney, who when drafted, was said to be a great “outside” runner however the vast majority of the few touches he has had have been “up the gut”, too many times – resulting in injuries. Also, Penney holds the all time NCAA record for kick return TD’s (7) I’m not sure why he hasn’t been used in that role at all. Another PC “Square peg, Round hole” situation (and there are many others). IMO

  44. DarrellDownUnder

    Couple names: Daboll & Bowles.
    Love how the Bills are being run albeit they do have a stud QB.
    Wasn’t crazy about Bowles when he was in AZ but he might be ready for another HC gig.
    He might be able to get something out of JA and also get us a draft pick for the hire.
    The man can definitely put together a Defense.

    • BobbyK

      Always liked Bowles. He had good talent in AZ and ran a good defense. His talent sucked at the Jets so it looked like he sucked. Now he’s in a better situation so he looks good again. Coaches are pretty much products of what their front offices give them to work with. Either you have good players and will look like a good coach or you have crappy players so people think you’re stupid.

      I think you’re wrong about the Seahawks getting a couple 3rd round picks for hiring Bowles though. It would be the Bucs that got those picks (because he’s a minority coordinator for them). There’s no actual draft pick incentive for the Seahawks.

      Though I like Bowles, I would have to think Russ would want an offensive guy to be HC.

  45. Matt

    I’m happy to report that the clowns of Seahawks Twitter are now on the “when do we blame RW for hiring Waldron?”

    These people are hopeless, shameless…it’s just…I’m amazed.

    • Rob Staton

      And they are clueless.

      Here’s the truth — Wilson saw Waldron as the best option presented. He didn’t hand pick him like many are suggesting.

      And Wilson was right.

      • Matt

        There’s a sick part of me that wants RW to get traded and PC to stay one more – just so these idiots can see how bad it really is. They are beyond delusional.

    • Big Mike

      The dislike for Russ isn’t limited to Haws Twitter. It’s been here too, and definitely more than one person.

  46. cha

    Mike Salk, 710 ESPN
    · 18h
    When Russell Wilson goes home tonight after standing on the sideline for three hours in the rain watching that football game, what do you think he’s thinking?

    He’s thinking: “Why am I the only person in Seattle who has even attempted to hold Pete accountable?”

    There you go Mike. Sleep tight.

    • Matt

      LOL…that’s perfect

    • Rob Staton


    • Geno-he-didn’t

      Dude. Perfect response.
      Mike Salk was talking real loudly today, and he wasn’t incorrect, but it’s a little….off putting when it comes from someone that could have been asking these questions to Pete’s face. C’mon bro.

      • 12th chuck

        Salk single-handedly ruined 710. I know the covid put strain on all the radio stations, but local sports radio has become a joke

        • Matt

          Yep. Salk is weirdly like Pete where he thinks he is smarter than everybody else and that when things don’t work out; it’s because everybody else let him down.

        • Aaron

          I almost exclusively listen to 950 KJR because 710 has been on a slow and steady decline since Brock and Salk stopped their morning show.

    • Big Mike

      Absolutely fantastic and spot on response.

  47. Kelly Smith

    Random Thought: I saw the Packers have Lazard and Adams on the COVID list…if the packers came calling for Lockett what would you let him go for… (since we are entertaining this rebuild)

    • Rob Staton


      Because it would cost $6,050,000 this year and $28,200,000 next year if you deal him.

      So it’s physically impossible to trade Lockett.

      And if you do it in the off-season, you’ll lose $-21,150,000.

      Heck — it’s only $16m to bin off Jamal Adams.

      So Lockett, of all people, isn’t going anywhere.

      • cha

        And you’d be showing RW the door as well

    • Mick

      You don’t rebuild by throwing away your assets. Lockett should stay, we just extended him.

      • Kelly Smith

        Did you I’ll play devils advocate to this. Didn’t we just extend Carroll? What’s to stop the Packers and Lockett from ripping up the deal and extending? And if we are entertaining a full rebuild doesn’t that mean we say goodbye to russ anyway?

    • GoHawksDani

      I’d rather trade DK than Lockett. He’s crazy talented, and only at the beginning of his career, but money could be an issue, and also his ego.
      He might become #1 WR with astronomical numbers….if he evolve mentally and also in his game
      He might become a headache, a drama queen and a locker room issue…if he continues to have problems with his temper

      For the first option, I’m happy to give him 20-22m APY. For the second, it’d be a disaster

      For a 1st and 3rd I think I’d trade him. Maybe he matures well, but super successful guys like Julio Jones or Derrick Henry or Lynch, Kam, Bobby have a good personality. Obviously there are talented players with bigger egos like Sherm, but he didn’t cost much in penalties for the team he was just a talker… So not sure about DK. It’d suck to lose him, but we need more than some mid-round picks and OK money to rebuild quickly…and no one will break the bank for Bobby or Jamal

  48. hazíq

    “It also meant having to deal with Mark Rodgers again, something I think Schneider in particular has had his fill of.”

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again:

    If John Schneider moves on from Russ because he’s tired of his agent – a person he only has to directly interact with once every few seasons, at most – then he’s a bigger jackass that I imagined.

    • Matt

      Never thought of it this way…you’re right. That would be a horrendous reason to move on from a QB. Your agent is supposed to play hardball for you.

  49. cha

    Rich Eisen chipping in.

    • Robbie

      Deep deep trouble! The last 90 seconds of that…. Ugh 🤦🏻‍♂️

    • Big Mike

      As a lifelong Jets fan, he’s loving it. Nice trade Pete.

  50. Gary

    Two quick thoughts:

    1) Rob made a comment earlier that one of the priorities of a new management team to turn this around quickly will be to improve team depth. I could not agree more. Depth is what separated the Hawks back in the day, when our twos could beat their ones and every team was looking to pick up our cuts. Now our ones can’t beat their twos most days.

    2) I know some will be quick to respond with “Bill Belichick” but I crave a traditional power structure where the GM hires and fires the coach, and not the other way around. The PCJS structure has always been bizarre and dysfunctional to me.

    • BobbyK

      On the flip side, when a GM fires a coach… it’s generally because the coach doesn’t have as much talent as he needs (and that’s on the GM). I don’t like it when the boss in the background sucks more than the head coach but gets to fire a scapegoat.

      I’ll admit the Seahawks used to have better depth, but look at the superstar problem on this team. We have Russ, Wagner, and maybe DK who is at least a “star” on national tv with the commercials and all that. Who else is a legitimate “star” who can say they’re the best or close to the best at their position? Nobody.

      Back in the day, they had one of the best at SS, arguably the best at FS, the best or close to the best with Sherm at CB, a younger Bobby Wagner, and they had a DL stocked with good players. Then they had Beast Mode who may not have been the best RB in the league, but there’s nobody a DB wanted to tackle less either.

      I’m in favor of a GM/coach partnership because I don’t believe most GMs should be allowed to fire someone they haven’t assembled enough talent for in the first place. There’s always isolated instances, but I’m talking more times than not.

      • 12th chuck

        I agree Bobbyk, but there is something to be said about how many transactions that were done in the beginning. How much pc knew from college recruiting to JS churning over the roster to be 1 game away from the conference championship game in 2 years. JS> learned from Ted Thompson, and he was pretty good at building rosters

  51. James Kupihea

    Even if you are a Penny apologist, even if you believe Pete and John can do no wrong, even if you’re blind and thus have not bared witness to this slow and steady decline.

    You should still be mad about this. In a 10-7 game, where we have the likes of DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, Pete Carroll ran the ball 8 straight times for 19 yards.

    • James Kupihea

      I cannot believe in my right mind, that this was Waldron’s idea.

      • Big Mike

        Agree 100% and that’s why the Waldron sucks crowd isn’t worth listening to. We have no idea what and who Waldron is other than the latest bobo for Pete Carroll.

    • neil

      Most of it into a 8 man stacked box

      • UkAlex6674

        For me, that sequence was one of the most depressing depressing things I have seen as a Hawks fan in over 35 years.

        • bmseattle

          It was a last ditch effort by Pete to “impose his will”, and utterly failing to do that.
          No wonder he looks so weak and defeated.

  52. Tony

    Mina kimes fully on the pete is done train. Then Stephen a Smith and Keyshawn Johnson want to give pete another season. Mina’s face looked flabbergasted while they were explaining the reasoning. And her response to Smith was money about wasting rw prime years to give pete another chance.

    As you point out Rob, this should be it. Unless there’s a win streak ahead. I for one hope jags put a nail in it.

    • Andrew M

      I don’t think there is any “unless.” Pete has to go after this year, the systemic issues have been escalating for years and now we are seeing the results. If Russ comes back and they go on a win streak it’s fairly apparent why that would be. Part of hopes they don’t go on a streak just because it worries me ownership will see it as a positive sign and reason to keep this ship afloat, and just add another patch to the giant leaks that are springing up. Get the divorce done quick, hopefully the team can keep Russ and move on. But I have real doubts Russ would want to stay here even with a new regime.

    • Big Mike

      “Stephen A. Smith and Keyshawn Johnson”

      All you need to do there is consider the sources

  53. Ashish

    I wish for the same. A loss against Jaguars, followed by bye week will be perfect. If PC retire in bye week rebuilding process can start now.

    • BobbyK

      Rebuilding is the process of acquiring new/talented players preferably rookies under team control for four seasons. You do that through the draft mostly. How does a team “rebuild” in the middle of a season, aside from giving a guy like Robinson more snaps in comparison to guys like Mayowa who have no long-term future with the organization. For the most part, you don’t rebuild during the season. We play the hand we’re dealt. This is especially true when you don’t have your own 1st round pick to rebuild with.

      • Ashish

        I agree but if Pete is out now new coach can trade someone for future draft picks. Or atleast Pete will not trade for some crap to save season. In short i can’t take PC for even 1 game

        • BobbyK

          Oh, I totally agree about not allowing them any opportunity to trade future draft picks at this point. They’ve done enough damage to the future already. They shouldn’t be given the opportunity to screw us over anymore.

  54. Matthew

    I’d wager there’s almost zero chance Pete quits mid-season. No way he ends it like that, he’ll go down swinging if this is his last year, which it most likely is.

    • Simo

      I agree, and I’m not sure Pete quitting, or getting fired (never happen), mid season isn’t good for anyone. The team is better off bringing on a new, full coaching staff early in the off season. This gives everyone time to learn the new system and they don’t have to finish this year under a dark cloud.

      I just hope Pete isn’t to stubborn to actually leave at the end of the season. He may think this year is just a bunch of bad luck and really try to run it back next year.

  55. TheOtherJordan

    Ok. I’ll play the speculation game. Again, for me ownership needs to side with Russell Wilson over Pete and John. I’ve always thought the 2022 season at the latest was going to be the Pete’s last season as head coach. I think it’s been clear since last off season where this has been headed. I don’t think the important question for the future of the seahawks is when does Pete leave. I think Pete leaving at this point is a forgone conclusion. The important question for the future of the Seahawks is what is the future of John Schneider?

    I thinks it’s likely Schneider will try and pitch to ownership that he assume total control. I think people are underestimating how rare it is for a billionaire NFL owner to be hands off and let a coach, GM, or president run the organization how they see fit. I have a feeling John appreciates that a ton and knows how valuable that is. A hands off owner and a total rebuild that he completely controls may be much more attractive than it seems on the surface. And for that reason the grass may not be greener in his mind. The current ownership situation sets up perfectly for John to assume total control of an NFL franchise. How many opportunities like that do you get?

    So that’s where this gets interesting. If Rob is correct and for the record I think he is, John is sick of dealing with Wilson’s agent and was willing to trade Wilson last year. Does that make it likely that John would keep Wilson as the centerpiece of a rebuild when he reports to no one? I’m skeptical. This could very well lead to an absentee owner having two paths. Go with Wilson and replace everyone on the coaching staff and in the front office. Or go with Schneider. If Schneider is the direction they go, I’m guessing this is Russell Wilson’s final season in Seattle. The next 6 months will be some of the most interesting in the history of the franchise.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m not sure John would do that. As Jeff mentioned on our stream recently —- it’s very possible JS has lost his mojo and might need to go away to get it back.

      • TheOtherJordan

        I don’t disagree. It’s very possible. But it is also possible John has been around the NFL long enough to know there are very few chances where a GM is truly given the opportunity to control everything. Those stars do not align very often. And that may be too good of an opportunity to pass up and one he wants to fight for. Again, for the record I hope Wilson stays and John and Pete go.

        • Big Mike

          Your logic is very sound. We shall see. I will say if it plays out as you suggested, like you I think Russ is gone but not just because John is sick of Wilson’s agent. I think he’ll feel like he can find a franchise QB in the draft. Remember, not only did he do so with Russ, but by all accounts he was very interested in Josh Allen who has turned out to be an All-Pro.

    • cha

      I think it wouldn’t be that easy for John. He’d have a pretty hard sell for total control. How does he bind himself to the successes of 2010-2013 and yet separate himself from the present-day mess?

      Management’s first question in that meeting would be ‘What do you propose we do with Russell Wilson?’

      Their second question would be ‘How can we avoid disastrous mistakes like the Jamal Adams trade (and drafting Collier, Penny, etc) in the future?’

      Their third question would be ‘You’ve never hired a Head Coach. What do you think the team needs to get back on track?’

      It’s hard to imagine John tapdancing on the head of a pin to come up with satisfying answers to all those questions.

      • TheOtherJordan

        Here’s what I’d say:

        No one individual player is above the organization. Period. Anytime a player has been put above the organization it eventually ends poorly. You have to choose the organization.

        I’m the only person in the history of the franchise that has constructed a roster that won a super bowl. I’ve done it before and I can do it again. I just need total control to make the decisions I want to.

        All the really bad personnel decisions were because Pete instructed me to do it. If we’d done what I wanted to, we’d be in a different place.

        • Sean Gross

          I don’t think those answers would be very compelling. The first answer is basically dodging the question. The second and third answers are exactly what cha mentioned…trying to take credit for the early years while blaming Pete for the later years – that may be the best answer JS could give, but it is still not a really strong answer.

        • cha

          No one individual player is above the organization. Period. Anytime a player has been put above the organization it eventually ends poorly. You have to choose the organization.

          “So your stated goal is committing the team to a total rebuild rather than building around the most prized commodity in the NFL? You would rather try to strike gold a second time rather than keep the gold you have? Why?”

          I’m the only person in the history of the franchise that has constructed a roster that won a super bowl. I’ve done it before and I can do it again. I just need total control to make the decisions I want to.

          All the really bad personnel decisions were because Pete instructed me to do it. If we’d done what I wanted to, we’d be in a different place.

          “So, you want credit for building the contender but no blame for the team’s current predicament?

          “When Pete pitched us trading our future for a safety, and you agreed or said nothing, what was that? You don’t have enough conviction to voice your opinion?”

          I personally think John would have to fall on the sword to have a chance of convincing them.

          Something like

          “Taking Penny over Chubb was a massive mistake. We felt justified at the time due to their injury histories but that proved wrong. Our training and medical staff has been a disaster and replacing them will be my first move upon assuming full control.”

          “We were caught unprepared in 2019. Every chip that could fall against us did, and we made a tough pick by taking Collier. We did quickly recover by trading up for DK Metcalf though.”

          The only thing I can come up with on Adams that would possibly work is

          “Trading so much for Adams was a mistake. We underestimated Jadaveon Clowney’s willingness to wait for a contract, and other options dried up. We waited too long to improve our team and had backed ourselves into a corner we couldn’t negotiate out of.”

          Why sign him to a massive extension then?

          “I was working from the assumption that the coaching staff would put him in a position to succeed. That has not happened. Put me in charge and one of my first questions to a prospective head coach is ‘How can we deploy Adams in a way to get our money’s worth?'”


          “Once we agreed not to negotiate a contract before closing the trade, Adams’ agent refused to negotiate an extension, driving up his leverage. I plan to rectify that mistake by moving on from him and salvaging what future cap and draft picks we can.”

  56. vbullen65

    Does anyone know who the Jets drafted in April with the 1st and 3rd round picks they received from Seattle?

    • TomLPDX

      We gave them #23 and #86.
      The traded up in round #1 with our 423 and both of their 3rd round picks (their #66 and our #86) and picked USC offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker at #14.

      • TomLPDX

        Our #23…geez, wish we could edit these things.

        • BobbyK

          That’s why they’re the Jets. They waste picks just as badly. They trade up as if they’re that player away when they needed to rebuild the roster. But, no, those idiots waste 3 picks for 1 player on a roster full of horrible players.

          At least we can take solace in knowing they’ll mess up our top 10-15 pick we give them.

  57. HD

    I have thought for the last few years, especially after the hire as Norton as DC that Seattle is in trouble. Big name trades have been a fail under most of the regime going back to Harvin. Why Seattle has never really gone all in on offensive line is a mystery to me. Other than Brown and I suppose Jackson this year we are always trying to find magical bargain basement values instead of making a commitment to a solid line over time. That might require two to 3 drafts with that as priority and paying for a big name or two. Center comes to mind. What a turnstile. Every winning organization has had to go through a rebuild. Most people don’t remember the 49ers in the Dick Nolan days of the late 60’s until 70, but it took nearly a decade to find Walsh and Eddie D. Even then it took two years and some great personnel decisions and coaching to get the 49ers to the winners circle This is going to be a long painful process. Overnight sensations don’t happen often in the NFL. I think the only chance of Russ staying is allowing him to be part of the hiring process for coach and GM. Even then, NO might look awful appealing to Russ. Seattle is at a crossroads and the fans are going to need a reality check that might take some years to realize a winner again.

    • Gary

      Was watching a WFT game the other day and enjoyed listening to the announcer describe how Washington build their D line:

      1) 2017 first round pick = Jonathan Allen
      2) 2018 first round pick = Daron Payne
      3) 2019 first round pick = Montez Sweat
      4) 2020 first round pick = Chase Young

      That is what commitment and vision looks like, and that is how you build something. Would love to see the Hawks follow that approach to either (or both) of their lines. Assuming you actually have first round picks to engage in this strategy.

      • BobbyK

        On the flip side, they have no franchise QB and still suck as a team (and organization).

  58. cha

    Just read an article that posited that maybe the 2020 Seahawks were not as good as we thought because they played some awful teams down the stretch that fattened them up for a playoff slaughter.

    Welcome to the party, pal.

    • BobbyK

      No doubt. It’s almost commical.

    • Matt


      Amazing how many Seahawks Twits I see doing the “well how do you explain the defensive turnaround, smart guy?!”

      Uh…they played awful teams with terrible offenses? Pretty simple explanation…actually. Granted, we are dealing with people who think RW isn’t good and personally hired Waldron, Jamal has been amazing this year, and the only reason we win is bc of Pete.

      Furthermore, why they don’t understand the difference between “limping into the playoffs” and being an actual contender continues to confound me. I’d rather miss the playoffs with a projection that we are building toward an actual contender outside of treading water and losing in round 1, every year.

  59. Big Mike

    1. I propose trading him to begin rebuilding this roster. I found him as a franchise QB in the third round no less and am fully confident I will find the next franchise QB in the draft.
    2. The Adams trade was all Pete. I was just following instructions. As for Penny and Collier, yes I was partly involved and bear some responsibility for those picks but I also was part of the decision making process to draft DK, Up and coming Brooks, etc. I’m also proposing an overhaul of the scouting dept to better reflect my vision in the draft.
    3. I’ve been in the NFL for quite a number of years and have seen several successful coaches so feel like I know what it takes to make the right hire.

    Not saying these answers would satisfy ownership, but those are the responses I feel like he’d give.

    • Big Mike

      This was in response to your 3 questions for John post cha. Damn this format.

  60. Gross MaToast

    Looking at how this ownership group handled the coaching changes in Portland earlier this year may give some insight as to how they might go about the same task with the Seahawks.

    Chauncey Billups was hired in his first job as a head coach after a long playing career and some time spent as an assistant around the league. In his initial press conference, he thanked Jody Allen, Bert Kolde and Neil Olshey for the opportunity. Olshey is Portland’s President of Basketball Operations, roughly akin to a football GM.

    Allen and Kolde are also chair and vice-chair of the Seahawks.

    It seems that Allen and Kolde gave a great deal of leverage to Olshey in making the hire. Signing off on a first-time head coach is a huge leap of trust in his judgement.

    Would they do the same with the Seahawks? IF Pete retires, would they allow JS, should he remain, to hire the next guy? Obviously, JS should have to explain the past half-decade, but assuming he just points to Pete, it seems likely that he makes the hire and it’s then blessed by Allen and Kolde.

    If JS goes, the next GM likely gets to pick his coach.

    Olshey, for what it’s worth, was hired by Paul Allen, so the hiring of a new football GM would be a wildcard.

    • TomLPDX

      Thanks for describing that. Jody really is the wildcard in all of this.

  61. cha

    Ian Rapoport
    Sources: Owner David Tepper and the #Panthers are not expected to pursue #Texans QB Deshaun Watson at this time. The QB has only waived his no-trade clause for the #Dolphins.

    Ian explains a little more about why

  62. cha

    Seattle (2-5): It’s too late. Monday’s loss cements it. Whenever Russell Wilson comes back (and Week 11 is likely the earliest we’ll see him), it’s too late. The defense is terrible. Can’t cover or rush the passer. The offense is erratic at best. No longer a tough out at home, either.

    • neil

      We lost 5 games to teams with a combined record of 21/11. That is a tough schedule, but even with Geno at QB we only lost by 6 points the last two games. If you want to look at it with rose colored glasses maybe 9/8 is not out of the question this year if they can beat the Jags and RW can come back with no lingering effects. The Packers, Cardinals, and Rams seemingly are the main obstacles, pulling out a win against one of them could get it done. Not a playoff record but respectable and if that is not attainable I can see RW wanting to leave.

  63. Hawk Finn

    I see Andre Dillard may be had for a day two pick. I know he tested well and performed well in Mobile in 2019. Worth a flyer for this ragtag OL?

    • Rohan Raman

      Pretty sure Dillard has played well at RT too this year. I wouldn’t mind that at all.

      • cha

        Would totally be a Seahawks move. Cut Ogbuehi loose (he just got picked up by Baltimore) and then give up capital to get Dillard.

        • Mick

          Ravens needed to do something with their OL and Ogbuehi might fit well there. I don’t think Dillard would be a solution. But now I see we signed Lundblade again, so all problems in front are gone 😀

    • BobbyK

      Absolutely ‘no’ to the trading of any future draft picks unless you feel you’re that player away from having a good chance of winning the Super Bowl.

  64. cha

    Pete press conf

    “It’s more clear how the focus to be really right”

    Taylor and Lewis counting on being back

    Questions about Shaq, the Jaguars and Urban Meyer

    Blair getting knee operation today or tomorrow, fractured patella, season over

    Eskridge rehab program in Florida, coming back tonight. Reports great shape, ready, get him on field first. Visual issues from concussion. Visual training. ‘that’s how I see it’ dad joke.

    Ugo at nickel. Ugo didn’t lose to Blair, so much as Blair needed time. Ugo’s spot now.

    Shell sore ankle, see next couple days.

    More questions about how good Eskridge is

    Center position is ‘competitive’. ‘Ethan deserves a chance to get out there’

    ‘Anticipated a classic competition at center. Pocic hurt, Fuller done alright.’

    ‘More consistently on it’ with OL communication. ‘Competition still open, see how Ethan does, Kyle does. Important position with Shane’s background. Still working at it.’ Pocic starting ‘We’ll see.’

    ‘Protection could’ve been better’ for Geno Smith. ‘Working, battling, communicating with Shane during game’

    Play calling too cautious? ‘no. Played game with conditions there. Game was going to be tight if we were doing well. Played off the defense. 8 or 9 INTs big plays coming in. Wanted to make sure we had a chance to win end of game.’

    Reminder how fine W-L margin is? ‘no doubt. Coming off SB season, first meeting showed guys 9 games could’ve gone either way. Make them realize how slim margin is. Every game could easily gone other way. Respect challenge and detail takes to execute. Every week 5 or 6 games come down to last play.’ Talks about Russ’ ability in close games, ‘very fortunate’

    ‘some times you gotta learn the hard way. I hate learning the hard way.’

    ‘really important to stay true to who we are. But also gotta be open to ways to adjust and get better’

    Process? ‘stay curious. Open to do what we have to do. Not shut off. So many truths should weigh out. Continue to take care of football. Should have helped us win games. Shocked not able to take advantage of that. Keep that rolling.’

    Drastic system changes coming? ‘No. Too much depth and background understanding what we’re doing.’ (story about Leinart at QB at USC)

    ((((cha ed – Pete is talking in the most muted tones I’ve ever heard))))

    Corners? ‘Corners played well. Good tight coverage. Tre Brown continues to show he’s comfortable. Fired up about his play. Sidney break up on third down. Happy.’ Rotate them? ‘Maybe’ ‘Alternating don’t get rhythm’

    Question about Trevor Lawrence. ‘This team is a loaded football team’ ‘James Robinson really good FB player’

    No update on RW’s pin removal

    Improvement on 3rd down D? ‘Kenny talked to them, diff been obvious’

    Collier inactive? ‘We’re playing bigger inside. As big as we and get inside’

    Question on politics…good grief

    Pass rushers? ‘Carlos best game pushing pocket, looking for speed on other side. If you noticed Benson played a lot of snaps. Like to adjust that, get Taylor more’

    Myers FG? ‘great mechanics great routine, bounce right back’

    Tater do on game day? ‘In box and I’m talking to him. Whenever I need him I go to him. Specializes in replays, decisions, he knows me the best, kick me in the butt if I need it. Always patting him on the back.’

    • L80

      Thank you from saving me listening to this drivel. Good lawd, blow this shit up. He;s actually incoherant and somehow believes everyone is doing great.

      In my best Dr. McCoy….My GAWD man.

    • Rob Staton

      Even Carroll couldn’t be arsed with the question about voting

      Jesus wept

    • BobbyK

      Can anyone else believe Pete said this about Center?

      “Important position with Shane’s background.”

      He’s basically saying Center is extra important (it is) and went into a season with Pocic and Fuller as the primary “competition.” I don’t get it. I just don’t get it.

      I realize they’ve driven the overall talent level into the ground the last number of years and can’t be good everywhere (insert joke about not being necessarily good anywhere besides QB/WR), but how can you dominate the LOS if you’ve got a bum at Center?

      • Big Mike

        Center position is ‘competitive’ = the position is shit

        ‘Anticipated a classic competition at center = we have 2 guys at the position so in reality we have none

        • BobbyK

          Competition between two crap options generally yields a crap result. They got what they were looking for!

    • Sea Mode

      ‘really important to stay true to who we are. But also gotta be open to ways to adjust and get better’

      Perfect Petespeak.

      • Rob Staton

        Perfect load of old bollocks

      • Big Mike

        Any politician would be proud of that one.

      • Ashish

        One of good quality of PC/JS was to accept their mistake and fix it – for which they will cut the player whom they paid big money, competition – will play player who win the play time irrespective where they were drafted or free agency signing.
        Not any more.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      ‘If you noticed Benson played a lot of snaps. Like to adjust that, get Taylor more’

      I think he said something similar about Robinson after last week’s loss to Pittsburgh. And I’m sure before that as well. And each time, he says it as if that’s a real puzzle. Like he’s not sure how.

      I mean, we’d like to get Taylor (or whoever) more snaps, but you know, it’s complicated, and something something.

      I’d also have addressed his remarks about ‘competition at center’ as if that’s any response to why the team is abjectly and undeniably woeful at that position, but it’s been done.

      I’m starting to pity him and that’s really depressing.

  65. Sea Mode

    Yeah, I’ve heard somewhere about how good he is… 😉

  66. Andrew M

    Good lord, Mike Salk looks at the NFC and sees this Seahawks team “right there” in the thick of that extra playoff spot. This team has lost to the first three teams that are in line for those wild card slots, and if they actually made it they would be throttled. Anyone’s guess when the local media will at least begin throwing names around for Head Coach? The comments section over at Field Gulls is looking a whole lot like SDB.

    Weren’t the Saints in salary cap hell before this season? Aren’t they still paying a large portion of the Drew Brees contract? They are a good comparison because despite their money issues they still have stars at key positions that are utilized well. And they are currently in line for a playoff spot with Jameis Winston.

    • Andrew M

      Dave Wyman is at least approaching the subject of a Pete and Russ divorce. Not getting a lot of love from his colleagues.

      • Rob Staton

        Dave is a great guy

    • Pran

      All the Seattle journalists are basically scared of losing Seahawks press credentials. They would not do anything to question Pete unless there is someone above Pete calling shots.

      • Rob Staton

        You don’t lose press credentials for asking difficult questions.

        • Pran

          you gotta tell these journos..

          • Rob Staton

            I don’t think they fear losing credentials.

            I just don’t think they have the appetite to be the one in the room to ask the difficult question. To be the one who creates that awkward moment. Far easier to just ask something mundane or unimportant and carry on your day.

            Personally I couldn’t operate that way. To me you’re not doing the job properly if you aren’t there asking probing, challenging questions. If everyone just rocks up with the intention of asking relatively pointless, run-of-the-mill questions then the press conference is a waste of time.

            And virtually every Pete Carroll press conference is a total waste of time because of this.

    • Geno-he-didnt

      So. I’ve gone back to listening to sports radio, since the purge of Danny and Paul (those dudes were just….cringe worthy). In general I’ve enjoyed Salk. I like him with Brock, and recently with Matt Hasselbeck.
      Maybe I’m off my rocker, but I now believe him to be a bad actor. It’s just so crap. He gets on Tuesday am, woofs a lot, goes in with Pete, brings none of that hard talk, and then Wednesday he’s going on about how it’s a mistake to fire Pete/move on. It’s just so cynical.
      With the team at 2-5, and having been trending that way, (as Rob has pointed out long long ago), FOR YEARS, you’d hope there would be some real questions. There hasn’t been.
      Awhile back Rob posted, in the comments, a video of Rob asking some hard questions about analytics and goal scoring, and the manager went on to do this odd asking questions and then answering them, whilst adding Rob’s name to the end (example/paraphrased) ‘is this good enough, not it isn’t, Rob’. It was amazing. For the love of….could someone ask Pete a few real ones.

      • Edgar

        I’m glad this is being brought up. I am a hardcore All Seattle fan, and the Salk pandering of Pete is straight up corperate blather. I can’t even take 5 minutes of him without Brock in the room.

      • cha

        I think 90% of the problem is the audience.

        There are only a handful of people who are looking at the real issues with this team and asking
        questions. They get drowned out by sunnysiders and ones who want to burn the whole thing down alike.

        When the blogo- and twitter-sphere (the hardcore day to day fans) are just now coming around to voicing the major issues with this team (Adams trade, bad coaching/prep, no depth, poor OL and DL, Penny is a bust, etc), you know the general fan populace is pretty complacent.

        It’s why you get so much pushback on your articles and thoughts, Rob. Now everyone who objected to your points of view are now publishing thoughts that could be cut and pasted from SDB 18 months ago.

        But no one with access to PC is interested in asking the questions discussed here because the general base would view it as a raincloud on the sunny day of a 10-6 season and one and done in the playoffs.

        • Big Mike

          Perfectly said

  67. KD

    “I’ve been here a long time. Without Russell, I wouldn’t have been here a long time.”

    Imagine following a leader who has this much self doubt. Hire Lord Flasheart immediately!

    • Brik

      PC has had a lot of confidence throughout the years. I just think they’ve had a few heartbreaking losses in a row, and he was emotionally worn down. I know I am. Seems like a guy who wants to bow out and hand the baton to the next team leader, RW. Personally, I still wish we drafted Kellen Mond. When faced with a similar situation the Packers drafted Jordan Love over trying to get the QB a weapon. So much uncertainty in the future, it’s not a good time to be a Seahawks fan.

      • James Kupihea Jr

        I disagree on several points.

        1) RW is not the next “team leader”, he’s the QB of course, but you’re equating the responsibilities of the director of football operations to the QB…

        2) A few “heartbreaking losses” in a row? Can we just acknowledge that it’s been three consecutively awful years, with several heartbreaking years watching the LOB dismantle prior to that?.

        3) We still need a director of football operations or several individuals who are going to fill those roles. We still need someone to make the hiring decisions.

        4) Do you really think the problems that we’re experiencing are”we should’ve drafted Kellen Mond” when every aspect of this team EXCEPT QB is a position of suspect/need? This QBs future isn’t uncertain. If we waste his time he will leave. If we give him an OL and some weapons he will give you the best chance to win.

        5) It’s a great time to be a Seahawks fan. A frustrating time sure, but it’s a great time. You get to witness yet another transition era of this football team. Are they the next Miami Dolphins? Possibly. The future is uncertain man…so why focus on the negatives without acknowledging that it could also be a better team in the long haul? We watched Arizona turn around brick by brick. We just need a younger coach with a vision and a GM they can get ish done with.

        • Big Mike

          “4) Do you really think the problems that we’re experiencing are”we should’ve drafted Kellen Mond” when every aspect of this team EXCEPT QB is a position of suspect/need?”

          Awaiting an answer………….

          • Brik

            My internet wasn’t working yesterday. Bruh…

            1) You don’t understand sports if you think another coach is gonna come in and have more control than RW. It will be like Rodgers in GB

            2) No, that is ignorant. They won a lot of games and made the playoffs each of those years. Quit being dramatic.

            3) Why is my comment getting blown up? When they’re out on the field the team won’t be looking to the director for a win.

            4) Yes, he would have given more hope for the future than RW does for me. Eskridge has done nothing either.

            5) I just bought season tickets, so no I’m not happy that I wasted money and can’t even sell them. Although there are other reasons they aren’t selling out anymore

  68. Tomas

    Yesterday on 950 Softy interviewed Petros Papadakis primarily about the upcoming UW-Stanford game; Petros also offered some thoughts on Carroll, saying he plants “weird positive stories” when things start to go bad, gets rid of any “relevant assistants” who challenge his “megalomania.” Petros was specifically recalling Carroll’s behavior during his declining days with USC, in the context of Seattle’s slide. In other words, Petros – a guy I’ve always found both wildly entertaining AND credible – doesn’t see much change in Pete. It seems to me that everything about Pete smacks of megalomania, or excess hubris, and that is why I fear he’s deluded enough to believe he can right the ship next season, Russ or no Russ. I have the the sinking feeling that we are totally at the mercy of Jody’s/Vulcan’s willingness to retire Pete.

    • Rad_man

      Hubris is a word I’ve used to describe Pete going back 7 or 8 years on this site. It first manifested with the idiocy around the O line – the beleif they could take a trash heap Lineman and move him around any old spot, center, tackle, guard, and make a SB run.

      Remember back when this roster was still talented enough to be a SB contender, they shuffled every single member of the already poor O line a week before the season started.

      This coaching staff’s approach to the O line has cost them at least 1 SB appearance, and if I wanted to spend the energy I could argue 3.

      Pete Carroll is an amazing person. He’s also borderline fucking nuts.

      • Tomas

        I agree with every word, Rad – including your last sentence.

      • Tomas

        I agree with every word, Rad – including your last sentence.

  69. JJ

    Tried finding a link to Hugh Millen on the KJR round table this morning, but couldn’t find it. If anyone has it should post to listen to him go off on Adams.

    • 12th chuck

      I wish I could get kjr at my house, all I get is 710 🙁

      • Big Mike

        Could you listen online?

        • 12th chuck

          you have to have an iheart app, which I wont do, or you can listen live but I am rarely able to do that

    • Rob Staton

      What show was that on? I’ll listen on the podcast tomorrow

  70. cha

    Season over

    Ian Rapoport
    How serious does an injury have to be to sideline #AZCardinals DE JJ Watt? Sources say he actual tore his labrum, his bicep, and his rotator cuff — and dislocated his shoulder. Watt was playing some of his best football and helped change the culture for the undefeated AZ team.

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