Pete Carroll’s press conference tactics were deliberate

Make no mistake — Pete Carroll’s end of season press conference was an attempt to set the narrative.

Carroll wanted to send the message that everything was just fine. The Seahawks were on the right track and there was nothing to worry about.

Concerns around their drafting, decision making, scheming and performance were brushed aside. This was a franchise that was simply a little unlucky.

It sounded like a pitch to ownership, more than anything else. An accommodating group of journalists would relay the message to the masses.

This tweet from ‘Idaho Highlander’ summed it up perfectly:

I want to come back to Russell Wilson’s role in a moment. Firstly though, I want to dive into what Carroll said.

There were two striking issues with the press conference. Firstly, the rejection of any implied criticism of the way they’ve drafted (and built the team). Secondly, the relentless talk of being ‘close’ and having the key components of a Championship caliber roster.

Carroll: “We’ve been so close throughout the whole season”

That simply isn’t true. They have the weakest roster in the NFC West. What happened this year has been on the cards for a while. They aren’t close and haven’t been close at any point this season.

They’ve built the team poorly, they’ve wasted resources and the same problems keep repeating while new ones emerge.

This was a rambling performance from Carroll, speaking without the kind of steely direction that was so evident when he took the job in 2010. Instead of a man with a vision and the motivation to execute his plan — he appeared to be trying to justify his continued employment. This was a survival mission of a press conference, rather than a convincing display that made you feel confident that he was remotely willing to make the necessary changes.

It felt like his platitudes and phrases were meant for Jody Allen, while trying to fill out the media articles and airwaves with positivity to strengthen his own position.

It was self-preservation and it mostly went unchallenged.

I came away from it all wondering whether sticking by Carroll was for his benefit or ours, as fans of a team we hope to see return to the Super Bowl.

The rather meaningless win against a well below-par Arizona (1-4 in their last five, including a 30-12 loss to Detroit) has seemingly convinced large swathes of the fan base that this team is in a strong position. Yet there are glaring issues that need to be addressed.

Listening to Carroll however, you wouldn’t know it. He played off that win to paint a picture that defies reality.

I couldn’t help but think this is one of Wilson’s big issues with the Seahawks.

Who in ownership is sitting Carroll down and challenging him?

Where is the accountability?

Even if Jody Allen and co. have no interest in firing Carroll — there still needs to be some serious questions asked.

Do they have the best possible staff? Look at the names available at the moment. A team is going to employ Vic Fangio as defensive coordinator in the coming days. Why aren’t the Seahawks looking at that?

After four years of having Ken Norton Jr as defensive coordinator, is it not time to consider a fresh approach there? After all — look at the way the defense started the 2020 and 2021 seasons as a jumbled mess.

The ‘bear front’ plan didn’t work at all. It took them until the final weeks of the season to realise a.) dropping your best pass rushers into coverage isn’t a good idea and b.) Carlos Dunlap should be getting more than a handful of snaps a game.

Should Carroll be prepared to introduce some outsiders to his staff? Rather than basically employing a series of old pals who will do what he wants? Don’t we all need to be challenged from time to time? Why is Carroll seemingly only prepared to surround himself with people who won’t challenge him?

He admitted a year ago that Carl ‘Tater’ Smith and his son Nate were his main sources of accountability. Does that not concern ownership?

The Seahawks should be aspiring to have staff members who are coveted by other teams for future Head Coaching roles. Norton Jr is never going to be considered for a top gig. Doesn’t that say everything we need to know?

Does Carroll have too much control over personnel? Why does he think they have drafted well? Shouldn’t they be learning lessons on how they’ve used their resources? Are they spending their money in the right areas?

The drafting point, in particular, was a big concern for me. Carroll spoke at length to defend Seattle’s recent record, leaning on an excuse that John Schneider also mentioned on the radio on Sunday.

Both the GM and the Head Coach have now complained about not picking in the top-10 and therefore ‘not having access’ to the ‘top names’ in a class.

It’s a ridiculous point that deserves far more of a challenge than either Carroll or Schneider received when they uttered the words.

You don’t need to pick that early to acquire top-tier talent. Let’s run through the names that were drafted from 2016-2020 in the range Seattle picked:

2016 — Kenny Clark, Chris Jones, Xavien Howard, Derrick Henry, Michael Thomas

2017 — Tre’Davious White, T.J. Watt, Ryan Ramczyk, Budda Baker, Dalvin Cook

2018 — Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Darius Leonard, Jaire Alexander, Frank Ragnow, Leighton Vander Esch, D.J. Moore, Calvin Ridley

2019 — Montez Sweat, Josh Jacobs, Deebo Samuel, Elgton Jenkins, A.J. Brown

2020 — Jonathan Taylor, Trevon Diggs

The Seahawks could’ve had any of these players. Instead, they selected Germain Ifedi, Malik McDowell, Rashaad Penny, L.J. Collier, Marquis Blair and Jordyn Brooks.

They have had ample opportunity to draft world class stars and they simply made bad decisions.

Their opinion that not picking in the top-10 has put them at a disadvantage is frankly ridiculous and flat out wrong. Yet they have both said it, unchallenged, in the last 48 hours.

Even worse, this viewpoint was seemingly a big motivating factor in their decision to trade for Jamal Adams. Their line of thinking, it appears, was that they might as well spend two late first round picks on a big name player because in their eyes, those late first rounders are not providing any value.

Not only is that completely wrong because their own bad decisions devalued those picks, not the available talent — but the deal for Adams has also ended up costing them a top-10 pick which they’re now sending to the Jets, because the team has flopped to 7-10.

So while they complain about not picking in the top-10, their own bad decision making is going to prevent them from being able to do the thing they crave.

You couldn’t make it up.

Seattle has now committed $17.5m a year to Adams — a player who has already had two serious shoulder injuries since the trade. Meanwhile, the defense suffered no noticeable drop-off when he was absent. Ryan Neal, on a free agent salary, has provided a perfectly adequate, if not superior, replacement.

And that brings us back to their resource spend. Someone in ownership needs to challenge Carroll on their drafting, not allow him to call it a job well done (as he did in his press conference). They also need to question how they can justify spending as much as they are on Bobby Wagner and Adams when the defensive performance is no worse when they’re not playing.

The Seahawks spent nearly $100m in free agency in 2020 and 2021. How do they justify how they’ve used that money? Carroll should be made to defend that record and explain in detail how they’re going to do things differently.

He did admit during the press conference that fixing the pass rush was the off-season priority. Usually, I would say that was great to hear. It absolutely must be a priority.

Yet he said the same thing in 2020. What happened then? They failed to convince Jadeveon Clowney to come back to Seattle — a priority re-sign in their words. Instead they brought in Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa and felt that was enough.

That is what ‘fixing the pass rush’ looked like in 2020. And what happened? Their pass rush was even worse when the season kicked off.

I’d like to look at a player like Chandler Jones and think the Seahawks would move heaven and earth to bring him in. That would be a real signal of intent. Imagine Jones lining up with Dunlap and Darrell Taylor? That would be a tour de force.

You could then use pick #41 (or even move up) to draft an interior pass rusher such as Georgia’s brilliant Devonte Wyatt or Houston’s Logan Hall.

That would do more than anything to elevate this team to a new level.

Yet based on their last two off-seasons they’re more likely to cut Dunlap like they did with Jarran Reed, before spending $2-3m on a random journeyman and extolling the benefits of depth over elite talent.

That plan hasn’t worked. Yet you’d never know it from Carroll’s words. They’ve just been a little unfortunate, don’t you know?

There have been consistent issues with the team. Third downs. Fluctuating production on offense — jumping from amazing to awful and vice versa. The running game hasn’t been consistent since the Marshawn Lynch days. The defense gives up way too many yards and can’t get off the field and has struggled to turn the ball over.

Why are these problems never resolved?

The Seahawks are pitched as a success story because they’ve won a lot of regular season games. Yet their record of one lousy playoff win in five years is of much more pressing concern.

Their post-season record was bad enough as it was, without missing out on an extended playoff structure this year. They couldn’t even finish as the seventh best team in the NFC.

A quick reminder that #5 Arizona, #6 San Francisco and #7 Philadelphia have all been forced to use backup quarterbacks too. New Orleans, the #8 seed, have had to use four quarterbacks (and none of them are any good).

They still won more games than Seattle.

Losing Wilson for a few weeks was a convenient excuse. Carroll needs to explain why they couldn’t handle it better than they did. He needs to explain why they were left to rely on a quarterback as thoroughly mediocre as Geno Smith is. Why haven’t they done a better job finding a backup to Wilson over the years?

Why will more of the same shift their playoff fortunes, if they even qualify next season? How do they go from post-season also-rans to serious contenders? Why have so many of their playoff exits since 2014 been embarrassing blowouts?

All of this was brushed off. Because the intention of this press conference was to set a positive narrative. There are no problems here. We’re OK. I’m OK. My job isn’t at risk. We’ll have the usual meetings and then crack on. We are a good team. There’s lots to be excited about.

In other words…

If ownership buys Carroll’s spiel and allows things to carry on as normal, I fear we’ll be right back here in 12 months having the same conversation.

We know Paul Allen used to challenge Carroll. It was reported not so long ago that he insisted they bring in Mike Pettine in 2017 as an outside voice to offer different viewpoints.

If Paul was with us today — I’m pretty sure he’d be demanding some answers to some serious questions. If nothing else, he’d be ordering things to be done differently.

Since his passing in 2018, it feels like all of that has been lost. It feels like Carroll is pretty much a law unto himself. He doesn’t have to answer to anyone and thus, there’s nobody really asking for an explanation when things go wrong.

This is a major, major problem that a win in Arizona shouldn’t cloud and it’s why I sincerely hope ownership are prepared to overlook that one game and the feel-good factor it’s provided, plus Carroll’s press conference attempt to control the narrative, and make some big decisions.

Even if Carroll stays — the Seahawks have to do things differently. The way they draft, the way they approach free agency. Carroll should have less control here.

They should also insist on staffing changes with outside voices being brought in.

If Carroll resists this change, then the next step is obvious for both parties. But he shouldn’t be allowed to dictate the running of this team. He can no longer control everything without any accountability.

There has to be some self-reflection and adjustment after a 7-10 season. We can’t just pretend it didn’t happen.

Colin Cowherd has talked repeatedly about the extent of Carroll’s control being a problem in Seattle. That means Wilson thinks it’s a problem. Clearly Cowherd’s sources are from the Wilson camp.

They aren’t limited to the Wilson camp though. In this piece yesterday he cited a source who worked in Seattle’s scouting department within the last five years (fast forward to 9:00):

According to Cowherd’s source, John Schneider ‘too often deferred to the coach and not the scouting department’.

This is the problem. Too much power and control.

Wilson sees this as an issue, among other issues.

When I see people reducing Wilson’s dissatisfaction to a mere ‘he wants to throw more’ angle — as Mike Salk did last week — it’s really frustrating. This goes way beyond that. It’s about many things, including Carroll’s unshakeable power in Seattle and a feeling that his philosophy, and the decisions he makes, are not going to put this team in a position to succeed at the very top.

If ownership isn’t willing to challenge Carroll — and if things don’t change — Wilson’s next move will be interesting.

A lot of people are suddenly talking themselves into believing he will be content to come back and carry on. Those people are kidding themselves.

Here’s what Adam Schefter reported on January 2nd:

Pete Carroll & Russell Wilson duo set for possible finale with Seattle Seahawks, sources say

There is a leaguewide feeling, according to sources, that Carroll and Wilson will not be together again next season, which would represent the end of one of the most successful head coach/quarterback duos in NFL history.

Wilson has said several times that his first desire would be to remain in Seattle, but only if the Seahawks’ desire to win matches his.

The offseason decisions on Carroll, who is under contract through the 2025 season, and Wilson, who has two years remaining on his current deal, will hinge on team chair Jody Allen, who has been the Seahawks’ de facto owner since her brother Paul died in 2018.

Some sources believe Schneider is open to starting anew with added draft picks, but he also knows the value of a quarterback like Wilson.

That was just over a week ago. That article was clearly sourced from the Wilson camp. After all, it’s the same journalist who broke the story on the potential trade destinations last off-season.

This article deserves some contemplation. Carroll can say what he wants in the press conference on Monday. It’s going to be up to Jody Allen to determine the path forward.

Carroll’s press conference was his pitch for continuity that he will no doubt relay to Allen. When she speaks to John Schneider, he may well voice a preference to trade Wilson, as the article suggests. If she speaks to Wilson — he will actively voice a desire for change at the top or a trade.

If he doesn’t have a direct line to ownership, expect a media onslaught pretty soon.

Something’s got to give. Allen has to consider a lot of things here, not just Carroll’s preference. He’s tried to imply everything is fine with ownership and the quarterback. Really, he’s in no position to speak for either with confidence.

While it feels like the status quo is likely right now — the truth is there are many chess moves still to be made.

Wilson will not just go along quietly. If you think some form of change is needed, as I do, he’s the one big hope in all of this. He’s the only one who can make ownership sit up and take notice.

Failing that, he’ll ask for a new team. Which could provoke even bigger changes than people realise.

I still maintain that Carroll doesn’t see a future without Wilson. He isn’t talking about any rebuilds here. If he’s forced into one, I don’t think he will accept it.

That remains the key point. Because equally, I don’t think Wilson sees a future in Seattle with Carroll in position, controlling everything as he currently does.

The meetings between Allen and the key components here are crucial.

We heard Carroll’s side of the story on Monday. It was confidence-sapping, denialist and somewhat insulting to our intelligence.

I hope Allen sees it that way too and ensures some degree of change occurs. The thought of the Seahawks just carrying on as normal after the season they’ve just had would’ve been unthinkable two weeks ago. A good win to end the season shouldn’t change that.

Mike McCarthy was an equally successful coach as Carroll. He could make a lot of the same arguments Carroll made in his press conference yesterday. The Green Bay Packers made a change because they could sense it was time. And it was time.

They made a difficult but necessary call and have been rewarded.

The Seahawks need to follow suit.

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  1. TheOtherJordan

    Can we also talk about the fact that even if they had a top ten pick, it’s very likely Schneider would have just traded down to acquire more picks. Of all the excuses the, “We haven’t picked in the top ten” may be the most idiotic. As Rob points out, they’ve simply drafted terribly for YEARS. Say it with me, one playoff win in 5 years with Russell Wilson in his prime. After 5 years of the exact same result, you can’t get away with saying we’re really close for a 6th year unless your audience is ignorant.

    • Group Captain Madrake

      Ironically, of all the years to trade down – unless you had one of the top 3 picks – this is the one for Trader John to do his thing. But yeah, that was really stupid reasoning.

    • DT

      What’s extra annoying about those comments is that in 2014/15 I recall the chatter being we should be trading UP to get a marquee player with a higher pick, not trading down to get lower level picks that weren’t likely to make the roster anyways, given how much talent was on the team – we didn’t have spots for extra 3rd and 4th round guys.

      Fast forward to now, where completely ignored a philosophy in the the Jamal trade that we were once so adherent to that we penalized ourselves sacrificing top players for a multitude of picks.

      We are adrift up and down management/strategy at this point.

      • RIP Sonics

        The names that really stand out on that list to me are Montez Sweat and Derrick Henry. No brainer picks at positions of need that they over though opted to let go by on their draft board.

      • Paul

        The irony here is that Schneider has actually made some nice picks the few times that he traded up (e.g., Lockett and Metcalf).

  2. Donovan

    Ringer article (on Flores’ firing) notes how much of BFL success is tied to having good QB. Be very wary of losing Russ:

    “The NFL, for all of its complexity, is really a binary proposition: You either have the right quarterback, and you are good; or you don’t, and you aren’t.”

    • TheOtherJordan

      We have the right QB and the wrong coaching staff. If Paul Allen were alive, I don’t think there would even be a question of whether or not Pete is fired. Unfortunately, he’s gone. And the golden era of the Seahawks may have gone with him.

    • BA

      I think a lot of people understate how impactful a good QB is. It really is a 6+ win difference, which is basically the difference between an 11 win playoff team and a 5 win dumpster fire. The Chargers are another good example of this.

  3. 12th chuck

    even if we get a new d coordinator, pete will have full control. Rumor that Gus Bradley, Dan Quinn (and who knows who else) had opportunity to come back and chose elsewhere is all you need to know. New England doesn’t seem to have that problem

    • Rob Staton

      Because they want to run the defense

      Not do what Carroll tells them to do

      • 12th chuck

        exactly, pc needs to go

      • cha

        Clint Hurtt is confounding to me. He got a promotion to Asst HC to come to Seattle.

        He appeared on MSD’s podcast this summer and, while not ripping the team or PC to shreds, confirmed a lot of the things our eyes told us all year last year about the DL.

        Is he another ‘loyalty/my guy’ hire that isn’t telling Pete what he needs to hear? Sure appears that way.

          • GerryG

            Thanks, I missed all that last summer.

            Interesting note on Hyder taking the leadership/calls role. Kind of explains why he played as much as he did (without looking at snaps). Felt like he was out there a lot, and didnt contribute much, hes got a good motor, sticks with plays, plays sound, but doesnt wreck anything.

  4. Group Captain Mandrake

    The Hawks have some good pieces to build around, but the fact is – as Rob has pointed out – that their team building has been awful. A quick glance at all the mediocre players they have signed on the OL while passing onquality players like Jack Conklin is pretty damning evidence. Don’t worry though, I’m sure Chance Warmack is going to come back and make hay.

    Add their trades on to that and the picture gets really ugly quickly. I’m not even going to touch the Adams trade, that’s been done to death. For example, trading a fifth for Gabe Jackson when he was going to get cut and then forcing one of your foundational OL pieces out of position because of it is not sound thinking. Square pegs and round holes.

  5. Crosljam

    Rob, if Jody speaks to everyone, understands where everyone stands, do you think there is a scenario where Pete and Russ both stay, but with a new GM that comes in above Pete to reduce his power base (as I can’t see how you just keep John as well, but tell everyone he’s in control now and people believe it).

    Do you think Russ would buy into it? Or do you think he’d ask it to go further and only if Pete agrees to move more to a Nick Saban role as you’ve mentioned yourself in the past, get a new Defensive coordinator, get Russ’s thoughts on whether Waldron gets another year without any restrictions

    At the moment it looks like Pete has no intention to simply walk away, he wants to win, and thinks he’s close, but he needs Russ. He doesn’t want to be starting a big rebuild, and the chance of convincing Aaron Rodgers to replace Wilson seems fanciful so he might be willing to concede more ground on how things work.

    Russ wants to win, ideally in Seattle, but doesn’t have a belief the current structure can do that. Small change last season (Waldron) didn’t do it, so he needs to see more widespread change he thinks will have a difference, but I don’t get the impression he has an issue with Pete personally.

    New GM
    New roster building strategy
    More input for Russ
    New Def Co-Ord

    might be enough.

    • Rob Staton

      Rob, if Jody speaks to everyone, understands where everyone stands, do you think there is a scenario where Pete and Russ both stay, but with a new GM that comes in above Pete to reduce his power base (as I can’t see how you just keep John as well, but tell everyone he’s in control now and people believe it).

      I don’t see any situation where Carroll cedes power and stays.

      • Luis Guilherme

        That’s the situation that would save face and improve the team at the same time:

        1. Carroll stays, but he cedes roster control to Schneider (of course he has input, just not the final word).
        2. A new DC comes, Fangio or Flores are the best names, but I am pretty sure the latter will receive a HC offer from somwehere. Anyone but a Pete yes-man.
        3. They hire an in-game manager, just like KK has in Arizona, to make game time decisions such as timeouts and challenges
        4. Carroll keeps doing what he does best: teaching and inspiring. Players love him, even Russ; it’s just that Russ loves winning more than he loves Carroll.

        • Rob Staton

          It’s the Saban approach.

          If Carroll would go for that, no complaints from me.

          But he won’t.

  6. Gibby

    How many 1 possession games were we in? We finish those games like we have every season and we are signing a different tune. That is what he is saying. Is he saying we don’t need to improve and get back to work? When has he ever said that?

    • Rob Staton

      He very clearly said that. For example, insisting they have done a good job in the draft.

    • DC

      Yeah we win those 1 score games instead of lose and then we get blown out first round of the playoffs.

    • jed

      I agree that’s what Pete is saying – that if the Seahawks won the games they have been winning every season and Russ wasn’t injured, they would be in the playoffs again.

      TEN: Don’t blow the 24-9 halftime & 30-16 3rd quarter lead.
      PIT/CHI/NO/WAS: Win 3 or 4 games with a healthy Russ against mediocre teams.
      All the other injuries & losses stay the same.

      11-6 or 12-5 playing either the Rams, Cowboys, or Tampa. I think the Seahawks season would end next week with a similar result to last year’s Rams playoff loss. A better coached team with more talent would thump the Seahawks.

      I think Pete/John would then rinse & repeat the last few off-seasons with spending cap space & draft picks on depth. The ceiling would be a Wild Card loss, maybe a Division Round loss if they were lucky.

      That’s not good enough for a QB that stated a couple weeks ago that he wants to win 3 more Super Bowls.

      • cha

        Spot on. That’s the point exactly.

        At least we are spared another post-game press conference where Pete Carroll stands up there and say ‘cannot process losing in the first round.’

      • GerryG

        Totally agree.

        Not only is it not good enough to win in the playoffs, it is not good enough for your goal to be better in close one score games. Winning a close one score game should be a last resort, not your plan. You should want to crush your opponents and get your guys some rest at the end of a few games, give some young guys more opportunity to play/develop.

        I know Russ and co were great for years at pulling these things out, and the D for years held up at the last second, sometimes on the one inch line. But that is not sustainable. You’re putting yourself in position to let luck, officiating, and the bounce of a ball to be the deciding factor. Look at kicking, they made EVERY FG last year, that is not sustainable. The year before the won a Rams game because the kicker missed at the end. All this means your team is basically a coin flip in terms of win/loss. That is not going to win you a championship, its not even getting you to the championship game.

        • Malc from PO

          That’s my belief also. Our desire to go out there and just win by scoring points and setting yourself up for success has vanished. It’s an insane way to play in my opinion.

        • SeattleLifer

          Solid post, agreed.

      • pdway

        totally agree

      • Jordan E

        This is a very good comment. Yes, I agree with Petes notion that its very/extremely arguanle that Hawks woupd have made playoffs this year. Alot of BS ref calls too. Remember that taunting call on DJ reed??

        But with that said- would the Hawks have made it far in the olayoffs? The answer is likely no. Maybe we would win one game but we do not have the seeds in place to go deep. I love Pete but man- I am not sure if he’s the guy. But then again- these guys we keep talking about are extremely hard to find. S. Payton has a very similar record to Pete btw. And look at all of the HC firings this week. Harbaugh in Baltimore is also a great coach- but look they were unable to made playoffs. Pete would be hired in a day if he was cut. NY/Min/Den all are teams that have experienced less success than PC.

        Whatever happens I hope we sign a stud at center. Guards and RT are showing potential, resign Duane for next year. Hopefully we can get Penny for like 5 million or less. If not, our 2nd round pick should potentially be a RB. Keep/placate Russ. As much as I love Bobby, he needs to take a paycut or be cut/traded. Brooks has stepped up. And Jamal Adams benefits from when we are able to rush LBs like crazy and/or be able to cover more to allow Jamal too. I dont think Bobby & Jamal are best scheme fits. And as messed up as this sounds- the Quandre injury could be good for the Hawks. Maybe security of a multi-year deal and lower cap hit is something he would be more interested in now. Im still undecided on PC bc I do not see a coach candidate who would be a clear upgrade over him at the moment.

    • Peter

      Sounds like Pete changed his motto from “always compete,” to “if its and buts were candy and nuts….we’d be right in there at the end.”

    • BA

      The one-score excuse is complete nonsense. There was a post I saw recently that showed each team’s record if the result of one-score games was reversed ( Once you factor in the Arizona game, the Seahawks finish 9-8 and most likely still miss the playoffs. The reality is that performance in one score games largely evens out over multiple seasons, and there is no conscious strategy that can be undertaken to win those games.

  7. Jonathan Stacey

    It’s so frustrating that he hasn’t taken a step back and adopted the Nick Saban model. Play to your strengths Pete! Let the scouts scout, the GM draft and the Co-ordinators co-ordinate.

    If they move on from Russ then just light it all on fire, I’m not staying up to watch some Teddy Bridgwater / Mitch Trubisky omnishambles

  8. no frickin clue

    The only way that Pete is gone is if Russ decides to take the gloves off and play the bad guy. He has to come out and say “ok Jody, you only get to keep one of us. Choose.”

  9. Zach

    I agree that the only things that matter at this point are what Wilson and Allen think, and Carroll is saying the only stuff he can plausibly could say (and is likely what he believes anyhow).

    I think one of the biggest unknowns in here is the extent to which the organization (Allen and others) might view a few more seasons of playoff contention as better than the unknown of jettisoning Carroll and Schneider. I think this kind of mindset is more pervasive among owners than we’d think, because it ensures ticket sales and revenue streams even if it doesn’t maximize chances at a Super Bowl win. I look at the Steelers the last few years as an example of a team that has rejected the notion of a reset because they didn’t want to bottom out even if their Super Bowl chances have been miniscule each of the last few years. Obviously Roethlisberger wasn’t agitating for major changes or to get out of Pittsburgh so it’s not a one-for-one comparison, but it still I think is instructive.

    I do think that while there are reasons to doubt just how close this team is to truly winning the Super Bowl (or even contending for it), it IS fair to say that they currently have the most important piece, which is a great QB, so I can understand the fundamental urge to just run it back again, but as you’ve said many times Rob, Russ doesn’t seem on board with that plan, and I don’t blame him at all.

  10. Matthew

    What else can Wilson do through the media? He spent all last offseason, part of this season operating through them, but when asked about it, he plays dumb “you guys must know something I don’t” at some point, if he wants something, seems he’ll have to say I’m holding out until the HC is changed, and then what? The owner concedes to the player? And the player essentially picks the next HC, or GM? How does that work? I’m honestly trying to understand where he can push with this, because it seems doesn’t seems like he’s done what he can with his feeding the media with talking points. What can we look for him to do In a media onslaught you mentioned?

    • Rob Staton

      Well, more of the same can still be a media onslaught.

      But I would suggest he needs to cut to the chase and speak to ownership, lay his cards on the table. That would be my preference.

    • Peter

      We see differently on Wilson over this season.

      However I do not want any florio, et al, pieces by way of mark Rodgers via Wilson pieces. Not one. If Wilson wants a change here or of a change of teams then I want him to do it.

    • Ptarmigan

      It’s helpful, when speculating about decision-making dynamics between the principals here, to understand the difference between an owner (Paul Allen) and a trustee (Jody Allen). Owners can and do have a variety of goals for the organizations (teams) they own, and they have their own personal management styles. Trusts are not privately owned entities, and therefore have a different structure that focuses on professional management of institutional assets and long-term strategies to protect and develop those assets. Trusts have fiduciary responsibility – which means legal accountability for the results that appear on the P&L and Balance Sheet. Trustee “best practice” leaves day-to-day decisions entirely in the hands of top organizational leaders. Trustees hire, fire, establish performance goals, and conduct performance reviews solely for the top leader(s) of the organization. One other way to describe this might be to say a trusteeship has a highly corporate culture, whereas many NFL teams seem very entrepreneurial and heavily influenced by their owner’s personality.

      What does this look like in practice? Here’s one hypothetical to demonstrate a fiduciary point of view: a board of trustees considering a hire might view a history of NFL suspension for deliberate/systemic injury of opposing players as disqualifying for future employment, because even the smallest potential for legal liability and litigation if such an incident were to occur again would expose the trust assets to foreseeable and catastrophic risk. The trustees would be accountable if this were to happen, because it is their responsibility to anticipate risk.

      The trust determined that long-term continuity with PC/JS was an asset worth protecting and they locked in what are reported to be top-of-the-market contracts to protect those assets last year. This is conventional wisdom in corporations when the track record of asset management is solid and internal performance metrics are met. It’s absolutely what most trusts would do if selling the team is a short- or mid- term consideration.

      How does the trust evaluate asset management? The market value of the team. That’s the criteria.

    • Jordan E

      Russ should be a little more like ARod and be willing to lose his good guy image in Seattle. Thing is Russ does seem like an actual good guy so it may be tough for him to be blunt and state its either him or Pete (if Russ does in fact feel this way)

  11. Pran

    Hope Wilson calls the bluff and demand a trade right away. There is no future for this team with Pete. He aint gonna change at 71.

  12. Cambs

    That stuff about the top-10 picks is just enragingly false on its face. But it’s about more than just “being able to get elite players” and their enunciating it in those terms is so damning.

    When Pete and John are gone, whenever that might be — yes, they’ll deserve all the accolades for SB48. But there is a terrible failure lurking there also. Why was there only one? And I don’t mean just THAT PLAY.

    When they were ousted from the playoffs by Atlanta in January 2012 they had such a gigantic resource advantage on the league in premium young players (a resource advantage built with late-round picks!) that they were in pole position to be a proper dynasty, to be the team of the 2010s.

    They turned that incredible war chest into one (1) Super Bowl. Now as a Seattleite I’ve seen an awful lot of contenders earn zero (0) championships, the gap from 0 to 1 is enormous and I’m grateful too have seen at least one team finally manage to cross it.

    But it’s precisely their failure to make disciplined and intelligent use of draft capital to put quality rookie-contract players into the pipeline that truncated their championship window. Wild, aye hormonal, trades squandering their late firsts to get “top 10 pick quality players” that came loaded with budget-squeezing veteran contracts really accelerated the roster-thinning, and I would speculate created pressure to cling to their remaining aging stars rather than making the difficult but necessary decisions to move on a year too soon rather than a year too late, the sorts of decisions you need to make to keep a team in contention for a long period of time. (The franchise that actually ended up being the team of the 2010s is famously great at this ruthless spreadsheetery.)

    Adams was the farce to Harvin’s tragic failure of resource stewardship. But it’s infuriating to hear the regime that authored both of those debacles stand up and promise to continue learning nothing.

    • Zachary O Geballe

      This is exactly the case. The team was utterly unable to replenish the ranks of low-cost players (basically guys on rookie deals) after 2012 because they either wasted draft picks to acquire expensive vets or flat-out took the wrong guys. It can not be said often enough just how incredible an advantage the Seahawks had going into the off-season after the 2012 season: nine franchise cornerstones or otherwise key players (Russ, Bobby, Sherm, Earl, Kam, KJ, Okung, Doug, Golden) on rookie deals plus a bunch of other useful players in the same spot.

      Obviously they were not going to be able to keep all those guys, nor were they going to replicate their success in the draft from 2010-2012, but only winning one Super Bowl is absolutely a disappointment, even if they certainly could have won zero.

      It genuinely astonishes me that neither Pete nor John seem to understand what it is that fueled their incredible success in the first half of the 2010s, but then again success tends to convince people that they can do no wrong.

    • Gary

      Briliant and spot-on post. Far too few fans are willing to acknowledge precisely this. It’s possible to be grateful for the Super Bowl win and still critical of the gross roster mismanagement that derailed what might have bin. Very well said and well-written.

  13. Peter

    I really do not understand why these times are so hard for media and fans to grasp.

    Not to bang on your analog to Green Bay. But aaron rodgers played fairly well in Mccarthy’s final season yrt they had a losing record. The team looked at the second winningest coach and one of four coaches ever to go eight straight playoffs and said enough is enough.

    As a fan full disclosure I haven’t watched a full game in forever. Lots of second halves. Very, very few defensive stands. As unless Wilson is going to drop 3 td’s it feels for about three years this team has almost no other way to win.

    Just a few pieces? Everything is fine? If only we could close out those one possession games? It’s not just that the LOB was an all time great unit the offense used to go for the jugular.

    KNJ recently talked about “not being able to celebrate the defense success’ (sic)”….really? Bottom. Third in the league in turnovers, sacks, bottom five in yards, last in time of possession (i’ll hang this on both sides.)

    Playing next years schedule with this team could get super ugly really quick.

  14. bmseattle

    At least Pete didn’t say “It feels like 2012”.

    Or… did he?

  15. bmseattle

    The fact that both JS & Pete are lock step in their narratives re: the draft… basically parroting the same talking points… is telling.

    They clearly have gotten together and set out a plan to squelch certain “negative” narratives.
    Does this mean that JS is still in Pete’s pocket, philosphically speaking?
    If so… I want him gone as well.

    The idea that the guys who have drafted HOF talent in the later rounds, could (with a straight face) look us in the face and say that not having top 10 picks has been our downfall, is ludicrous.

    Obviously they know that isn’t true, so they are blatantly lying to us.
    Yes, insulting our intelligence.

    Once again, Pete & John are the “smartest guys in the room”, it seems.
    Just ask them.

  16. Van Gogh

    “The rather meaningless win against a well below-par Arizona” …… didn’t the Cards just beat Dallas on the road and were playing for the NFC West Title, or am I thinking about some other team?

    • Rob Staton

      Can you explain what any of those things have to do with the Cardinals being below-par on Sunday?

      Do you think they played to their best?

      Also, not that it matters to my point that was specifically about Arizona’s performance on Sunday, the Cardinals are 1-4 in their last five games, including a 30-12 loss to Detroit. I covered the Cowboys/Cardinals game for National radio in the UK. The Cowboys laid an egg, big time.

      I’ll add this to the piece. Thanks for reminding me…

    • SeaTown

      Any given Sunday. But anyone with a pulse paying attention knows the Cards are frauds.

      • Jordan E

        Alot of answers can be solved depending on how playoffs go. Imagine if cards and 49ers get knocked out very early… KK or KS on the hot seat? Would be very similar result to PC team

        • Tomas

          John Clayton opined today on 710 AM that Pete wouldn’t have a problem ceding personnel acquisition to JS: “He (Pete) has an ego, but it’s not a big ego.” Really, John?

          • bmseattle

            If I’m Russ… that wouldn’t appease me at all.
            what’s the expression… “shifting deck chairs on the Titanic”?

    • DT

      the cardinals are the first team in NFL history to start 7-0 and go on to lose 6 games. Granted, one extra game to do so, but they certainly haven’t been playing their best ball as of late.

  17. cha

    PFF Offense vs Arizona

    • cha

      PFF Defense vs Arizona

      • Rob Staton

        This should be the last act for Benson Mayowa

        • Peter

          Kerry Hyder quietly cashing game checks for being about as useful as suiting up Luke Wilson in 2020.

        • cha

          6 snaps in coverage.


          • GerryG

            Yeah but think of the roster spot we saved by not having a SAM!!

            • Forrest

              Cody Barton was a disaster in coverage. …love how the announcers talked up his tackles. The PFF doesn’t lie.

            • cha

              I was in the stands for the Pittsburgh game. When Najee Harris split out and they put Benson Mayowa on him, I let out an involuntary audible “Oh no!” before the snap. My Steeler fans looked at me and said “what?” I said “just watch”.

              TD Steelers.

        • pdway

          and take Hyder with him . . .

          sparkling grades for the CB’s….doesn’t hurt that Hopkins was out, but still. I actually think both Reed/Jones are adequate guys to move forward with in ’22 – we’ve got bigger holes elsewhere.

          • Rob Staton

            Agreed. I’m 100% behind that pair starting next year.

            Not perfect but they’ve shown they can hold the fort and it’s hard to see an obvious upgrade.

            • TomLPDX

              Tre Brown will be back as well

          • bmseattle

            A great example of the lack of impact players on our roster.
            We need to prioritize keeping “adequate guys” because we’ve got so many other holes to fill.

            I agree that our CBs have been one of the brighter spots on the team. I’d love to get a true impact player at that position, but that seems so far down the list of needs as to be pointless to hope for.

            • Peter

              Improve the pass rush and adequate guys can often start getting turnovers. I’m pretty glad they may have found CB’s for going forward.

          • Seattle Person

            They are great examples of being smart and being opportunistic when the opportunity presents itself. You need to identify players that fit your style and were undervalued. Both Jones and Reed came to us with little fanfare and with little cost attached to them. This is a great pairing of guys that are young and can play. Jones on the left side and Reed on the right side. I believe Reed finished in the top 10 for CBs for the season.

            When we chased the waterfalls, things have not turned out well for us. They seemed to have a solid duo of CBS. Bummer about Diggs but they need to find a FS that can replace him. Ditto about Adams. What do you do with him? Put him at safety? Move him to LB with lame shoulders?

      • SeaTown

        I’ve had enough of LJ Collier too.

        • 805Hawk

          You mean the former first round DL who has the same number of solo tackles this year as our kicker? That LJ Collier?

          • God of Thunder


            Maybe have Adrian Peterson coach Collier?

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Hello Josh Jones

        Actually thought that during the game but it’s reassuring to see the PFF grade matches my eye test.

  18. Denver Hawker

    It’s beyond insulting at this point- the fact the media buys it too gives me such little hope of any change. Any dissenters would be vilified- even Russ. If he calls them out this week, I have no doubt he’ll become the villain.

    None of the arguments hold any water of course. Where’s the Rams’ war chest of top 10 picks? Give me a break.

    I wont like it, but I can accept another year of this nonsense if they can actually reel in big name FA improvements like a Chandler Jones. They haven’t done that before.

    • Rob Staton

      Certain claims, such as them drafting well and being close, really do insult the intelligence of anyone willing to view this team objectively

  19. MychestisBeastmode

    It feels like the “Reset, not rebuild” that was to occur from 2017 onward was wasted, and just now do I think we have some young foundational pieces to complete a proper reset.

    Every position group on this team minus 4-5 guys in both trenches and MLB is young and good enough (do not read solid or great) to win now. If the trenches could be solidified and sprinkled with a few game changing talents, this team could compete for championships.

    Once trenches have been addressed (I make it sound easy), then finding upgrades over current “good enough” players in other position groups (see CB, Nickel, SS, TE, RB starter or compliment depending on Penny) could truly vault this team to another championship window. Time is ticking though.

    To me, it’s reasonable to expect Russ to continue or be cap ale of elite play up to year 38. Anything after that would be a bonus. So, 4 year window for Super Bowls. And obviously, if Russ wants out because of inaction from the top, then all projections change… For the worse.

    • MychestisBeastmode

      *capable (not cap ale)

  20. Jordan

    On the GM Shuffle podcast Michael Lombardi mentioned that the Seahawks organization had hired a search firm recently, though he wasn’t able to speak to what the firm was tasked to do.

    • Rob Staton


      Very interesting.

      • GerryG

        Interesting for sure, but unless they have already spoken to people off the record, they are already burning daylight here wasting time. Some teams fired coaches weeks ago, and others (Chicago) knew they were. Cant wait around. Saw someone got permission to speak with the #2 guy for the Colts today.

        • Rob Staton

          True… but if they’ve got their eye on a specific candidate, they have a bit of time here.

          For example, let’s say it’s Dan Quinn. He can’t be employed anyway until Dallas are out of the playoffs. So there’s no rush.

          • GerryG

            yeah that’s valid

    • Pran

      It could be JS on his way out rather than Pete and JS. Having read some of the sound bites from scouting dept yesterday placing blame on Pete for draft miscues and absolving JS is probably the clue..

      • BobbyK

        I could definitely see that. Holmgren lost his GM powers and then the team went to the Super Bowl shortly after when he only had to worry about coaching.

        I can see Schneider being eliminated. Pete gets to keep coaching but doesn’t have full roster authority anymore. He’ll get challenged. Russ wins because his agent and JS don’t care for each other (strange considering it was JS who went to bat for RW originally) and Russ wants Carroll to be accountable to others.

        Schneider probably gets screwed over because I don’t see him ever having wanted to do the Jamal Adams trade. But change needs to happen. Changing GM is the easiest way to change the power structure without tearing everything down. Coach gets challenged now, QB stays, and hopefully winning results.

    • Matthew

      Searching for a potential owner.

    • Tomas

      Thank god for some encouraging news … a ray of sunshine and hope. But then I wonder … is Tater talking retirement?

  21. Roy Batty

    I am still confounded by the people wanting to move on from Wilson and rely on Pete.

    In what is considered by some his worst year in Seattle, Wilson still managed a passer rating of 103.1.

    That is astounding.

  22. Ryan Purcell

    So poking around the internet I found this site:

    This puts them slightly above average in their drafting in the last 4 or 5 years and that takes into account McDowell (who is now starting for the Cleveland Browns.) and Penny (Now blowing the doors off of the NFL) Even though those picks are considered busts it seems as if the process was solid. Those players have the talent to have been drafted in their spots and injuries have sidelined them. Collier has been a bust yes. Brooks will be our starting MLB next year and we will be glad not to have to pay Bobby 20 million. I’m of course no expert and come onto this site to be illuminated about the draft and players but does this data based football outsiders article sway anyone in terms of their drafting prowess? PFF is often cited here when evaluating players.

    • Rob Staton

      Not for me. It’s an incomplete review because it doesn’t account for decision making (such as how they decided to pick Penny over Chubb, or draft a linebacker in 2020 with their top pick, or passing on Watt etc).

      Neither does it highlight how they haven’t built the team to fit what they clearly want to do, which is win the trenches and run effectively.

      So no, not convincing at all for me.

      • Matthew

        Is the LB pick all that disastrous considering Bobby Wagner has declined? I see people whose opinions I respect excited about Brooks. IDK anything, but it seems like good planning, they knew Wagner was near the end, and they already have his replacement. Penny over Chubb looked like a disaster, but there is a tiny shard of potential there now, and you can at least see what they saw on field.

        • Rob Staton

          They didn’t need to take a LB in round one, regardless of Wagner’s future.

          And let’s be right here —- Carroll’s talking about keeping BW!

      • Ryan Purcell

        It takes some of the emotion out of judging their drafts. Overall the data says they’ve been slightly better than average. (According to this article).

        And I feel like Brooks has been a good pick and that linebacker truly was a need at the time. Our linebackers were old and we were getting gashed in the run game. Did you see his PFF score against the run against AZ? 90.3. That’s the big positive I see in the defense this year. They managed to make teams one dimensional and I think that’s why they led the league this year in scoring D. They’ve made their share of mistakes but I feel like lumping Brooks into that category is unjustified.

        • Rob Staton

          It’s not “emotion” to analyse picks based on positional need and the players they could’ve had instead.

          • Scot04

            Sounds like the O-line is wonderful as well. How anyone can swallow this is truly mind blowing

    • Peter

      Penny: 1572 yards. 11 tds

      Chubb: 4800 plus yards. 36 tds.

      Do not care if Penny looks sharp at the end of the season.

      22 runningbacks and two qb’s have more yards this year. 16 runningbacks have more tds.

      Not a good pick.

      • Matthew

        You’re ignoring a SMALL, but real bit evidence because you have prior ideas. I’m not saying it’s a good pick, and RB’s have looked amazing only to fall off a cliff before, and we don’t need anything other example for that but Thomas Rawls, but you can any least see what his abilities are, and the potential. Marshawn Lynch was a third string back when we traded for him, and he ascended to what he became. It’s not impossible for what Penny has shown to be replicated for an entire season. That said, you can’t count on it either…

        • Rob Staton

          I think it’s a bit disingenuous to call Marshawn a third stringer.

          He was a high first round pick who unsurprisingly fell out with the coaches

          They couldn’t manage him

          They dealt him to get him out. It wasn’t that he was a ‘third stringer’ who nobody knew could be good. He had a +1000 yard season. He set the league alight as a rookie

          • Matthew

            Of course, that was my intended point. Like Penny, he was a first rounder that wasn’t reaching his potential, or for him, had lost it. Wasn’t trying imply otherwise, my bad. He wasn’t a sure thing we he came to us, and he certainly had doubters because his success wasn’t immediate. Penny could be for real.

        • Peter

          You’re reference of Rawls is an indication of Penny falling off a cliff. I’m not ignoring anything.

          Penny was very exciting. But I would take 4800 yards and 36 tds with a mostly healthy Chubb oveer waiting on Penny to finally flash curious in time for a new contract.

          Matt Flynn threw like a man possesed, got paid by Seattle and was mostly never heard from again.

          Marshawn had 25 tds in his first 4 years. Rushed for 1100 and 1000 in his first two seasons. And in a down year befire getting traded put up Penny’s yards.

          It’s not that he didn’t flash. I said it was exciting. But sports is filled with guys who go off for a short while. I’m looking at consistency so Seattle doesn’t run the rock with Homer while waiting for some guy to get going.

        • Tomas

          I thought Rawls was near great until that first serious injury … injuries have derailed so many promising careers, the saddest part of being a fan, I think.

  23. Gary

    Agree with every word you’ve written here. I have to say that many of us saw this coming and suggested a few weeks ago that losing out would be the best way to ensure that the needed changes happen, and expressed concern that two meaningless wins might reinforce the status quo. I think you felt at the time that even two convincing wins couldn’t prevent ownership from making the changes you’ve long been calling for but now it seems increasingly likely that they bring back the band for another go. 2022 could be even uglier than we feared.

  24. BobbyK

    Prediction for next years end of season press conference is Pete stays in charge:

    Seahawks draft a DT at #41 overall. Even if said DT shows potential, he won’t play as much as some bum DT they already have. But at the end of the season press conference, Pete will say “we probably should have played him more.”

  25. Blitzy the Clown

    If ownership buys Carroll’s spiel and allows things to carry on as normal, I fear we’ll be right back here in 12 months having the same conversation

    I won’t be. If Allen turns a blind eye to the team’s glaring problems that are staring at her, then I’m walking away.

    I will always love the Seahawks, will always hope for their success. But I won’t spend another hour of my Sundays watching “reruns” anymore. And let’s be clear, the last 4-5 seasons are essentially reruns.

    I won’t be buying any Seahawks swag. I won’t be going to any Seahawks games. Are you listening Jody Allen?

    One thing I simply will not tolerate is gaslighting. And if Pete Carroll continues to gaslight me, as well as the entirety of Seahawks nation, and even himself, I will come to hate the man. It wouldn’t matter if he’d won a Super Bowl in every season as the Seahawks HC. Gaslight me and you’re dead to me.

    Are you listening Jody Allen?

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Should add, I’ll still visit SDB because I love the Seahawks and we don’t gaslight around here. That’s not Rob’s way. Thank the gods.

    • BobbyK

      That’s a great term to the crap Pete is spewing (gaslighting). This is a team that hasn’t seriously challenged anyone in the playoffs in over a half decade. I hardly call Matthew Stafford on the Lions a celebratory victory. All the playoff appearances were the same – get ass kicked, losing big, Russ leads a comeback so some of the scores doin’t look so bad on paper and then reflect and talk about what a great year you had.

      The positives are the regular season records for a long time. That’s great, but the predictability of seriously challenging in the playoffs really sucks.

      Schneider has done some good things. Jake Curhan is my man moving forward. Getting Reed from the 49ers was a steal. The midseason trades for Dunlap and Diggs. No way he could have wanted Adams. But I’d be fine with a shakeup involving Pete ceding some control.

      I’m all for resigning some of our free agents, but by God go and get someone good in FA. I don’t need Mayowa Everett, Finney, Hyder, Olsen, Hollister, Sowell, or whoever. Sure, do some bargain shopping but at least get me 1 legitimately good somewhat splash – even if it’s a position like Center.

      • Rob Staton

        I hate how often the term ‘gaslighting’ is used these days. But in fairness, it fits perfectly for this press conference

      • Tomas

        … and Stafford was playing with a significant injury to his throwing hand, which clearly hampered him. A healthy Stafford might have turned the game in the Lions favor, IMO.

    • Carl

      Narrator: Jody Allen was not listening

  26. Blitzy the Clown

    My goodness there were some tantalizing prospects on the field last night for the CFP National Championship.

    Is there any way to draft both Jordan Davis and Devonte Wyatt? I want them both.

    Will Anderson…my goodness. And Dallas Turner! Does Saban have a factory that turns out prototypical DEs?

    • Big Mike

      No frickin clue said above on this thread:

      “”The only way that Pete is gone is if Russ decides to take the gloves off and play the bad guy. He has to come out and say “ok Jody, you only get to keep one of us. Choose.”

      I agree with this. I don’t think Jody does anything without being pushed to it. Want to be wrong of course. If we aren’t wrong I’ll ask this: So Russ, do you have the stomach for it? Your career is at least half over with no championships in sight. Are you going to pussy out or grow a pair? Balls in your court (pun not untended).

      • Big Mike

        This was meant as a stand alone post

    • Peter

      Fire up a dolorean to 88 miles an hour and don’t trade for adams.

  27. Dominic

    “Pete’s back. John’s back. Russ’ back.

    Now what?

    Jody Allen is betting the house on the #Seahawks Big 3 figuring out this “retool.” Again. These next few months will determine whether she made the right call.”

    • Rob Staton

      We don’t know they’re all back though.

  28. Mr. Drucker in hooterville

    I am still befuddled on the drafting/lack of use of Tre Brown despite a gaping need at CB. If he wasn’t up to it, why’d they draft him? If they drafted him, why not put him out there? Even at Nickel?

    This is going to sound chauvinistic, seriously, does Jody Allen even follow football/Seahawks? I’d ask that of any trailing sibling who had a team dropped into their lap. My guess is she wants to maintain the portfolio, not think aggressively. That tells me that Pete has her ear and Pete knows it…which explains his press conference.
    I’m afraid of recency bias and fear of the unknown. My fear is she’ll just maintain the rah rah cheerleader who brags about a Super Bowl win in the past. My goodness I hope I’m wrong.

    • bmseattle

      Well, Brown was hurt at the beginning of the season.
      Once he was healthy, they started playing him and even started him.
      He played pretty well until he got hurt again.

  29. Gross MaToast

    *IF* the Seahawks have hired a search firm, it’s sure as hell not to find someone for the accounting department. I’m almost certain that if I have gotten wind of this information, then Pete likely found out weeks ago. I think the October meeting between Jody and PC/JS was not “normal…totally normal,” as Pete spun it at the time. There was almost certainly more to it. Pete’s current tap dance and “I wouldn’t want to play us right now” statement are designed to pull anyone currently on the fence over to his side. It worked. Every writer and broadcaster in town seems to have his back.


    Wilson ain’t playing that game. Pete cannot speak for his qb, as he has tried to do for the past 36 hours. RW may be the villain in this going forward, but how can he possibly agree to running it back for one more go? What’s going to change that propels this team to the Super Bowl? Shane Waldron’s brilliance? KNJr’s tactical mastery? Pete’s incredible ability to attract and sign top tier talent? JS actually not deferring to Pete at every turn? Yeah, none of those are happening and RW knows it.

    The hiring of a search firm changes everything. I wish there were a way to confirm it. If it’s true, Pete & Co are likely already gone.

    • Matthew

      How can he agree? He sees the shambles potential teams are in that he’s open to be traded to. I can’t really think going to the Giants leave him closer to winning a SB, does he? I’m not saying he doesn’t want out from under Pete, but he also isn’t going to waste his talent somewhere else. He has 2 more years, if he thinks his best shot is here next year, he stays. There’s too many factors, and moving parts to be certain on anything.

      • Gross MaToast

        You may be right, but I think Russ’ list of teams can change – certainly the Saints, Broncos, and Eagles would be more than happy to have him and at least a couple of those are in a better position both talent and coaching-wise than the Seahawks right now. I think he and the Saints would be formidable.

    • Simo

      Good points you made Toast! Although they could have hired the search firm with an eye on replacing only Schneider! If Pete’s job is truly as safe as he thinks/says, then they aren’t searching for a new coach!

      If any substantive change is going to happen, it’s no secret Russ has to lobby for it. No more Mr nice guy, he needs to demand a trade if xyz doesn’t happen. And then be willing to follow through if Pete calls his bluff!

      • Gross MaToast

        I can’t differentiate JS from PC. It’s a me and my shadow thing – they’re here together until they’re gone. Pete’s blowing smoke and Russ has pissed away several years of his career to Peteball. I don’t think he’ll give another.

    • Denver Hawker

      Was the news specific about the role searching for? Could just as well be a director level within scouting, personnel, operations, etc.

      • Rob Staton

        There were no specifics.

        Not sure why you’d emoloy a search firm for a scouting job though. Schneider could lead that.

        And Chuck Arnold isn’t going anywhere.

        To me it seems, if nothing else, they assessed their options and had all of the information needed to make changes.

        • Gross MaToast

          Search firms typically seek candidates for head coaching positions, general managers, athletic directors and the like.

          • Rob Staton


          • God of Thunder

            But do they search for Defensive Coordinators? 😉

    • Gross MaToast

      “Every writer and broadcaster in town seems to have his back.” Case in point:


      After underachieving all season long, the Seahawks played like a playoff team in Week 18 against the Arizona Cardinals.”

      “After underachieving all season long” receives no further mention. It’s all sunshine, lollipops and unicorns.

      I’m not linking.

      • cha

        Pete’s attitude in the press conferences for both Arizona games are an amazing stark contrast.

        Week 11 “I don’t have a lot to tell ya. Ask you questions. Go.” Then storming out in visible frustration.

        Week 18 (a 4 minute rant about how awesome everything is)

        While yes you expect a better mood after a win than a loss, as everyone is saying, people are forgetting how truly awful the team was this season because of the two wins at the end.

        • Gross MaToast

          Recall that first game they trotted Seahawk-killer Colt McCoy out in place of Murray and, for the second consecutive season, KNJr (Pete) had no answers. Pete was likely a bit cranky from that.

          Had the Arizona games been reversed, this feels like it would’ve been an easier decision for the local media to accept, but since the Seahawks “played like a playoff team in Week 18,” Pete has earned another shot.

          It’s odd that the national press senses the end for this regime being close at hand much more so than the locals. They aren’t as persuaded by a win over a terrible Lions team or a collapsing Kliff Kingsbury squad.

  30. bmseattle

    Apparently the Bears are requesting interviews with both Ed Dodds and Brian Flores.


    • Rob Staton

      Huge sigh

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Dolphins just submitted their request to interview Bills OC Brian Daboll for their HC job, per source. Daboll now has requests from the Bears and Dolphins.— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) January 11, 2022

        Keep the sighs coming

        • Peter

          Feels very “seahawky,” to possibly make a decision when all that’s left is scraps from the dust bin.

          • Starhawk29

            I think it’s relevant that the only two guys left from the coaching hires in 2018 ago are Vrabel and Reich, both of who were hired at the end of the cycle. They were not the first choices, but they’ve become the best coaches of the lot.

            • Peter

              This is more likely the case coupled with possible options still coaching in the playoffs.

          • Jordan E

            Excellent point. This idea of fire PC… okay lets say we do it. Who is going to replace him? S. Payton has a very similar winning record to Pete with the seahawks… is S. Payton the guy to take it all the way to the SB? Or is this just to placate Russ? If Arizona loses in playoffs. Should KK be fired? If 49ers lose should KS be fired? No disrespect to Flores but do you really see him as an upgrade over Pete?

            Of course we all want a BB or McVay at HC, but those guys dont grow on trees. I get fans are pissed at Pete but at the moment I do not see a clear upgrade over him at HC. Hes still a very good coach in my opinion- but not sure if he is BB or McVay level exceptional. If we could get a Matt Fleur type of HC to take over that would be excellent. But who would that even be?

    • Mr. Drucker in hooterville

      Every hour that goes by w/out a PC firing is an hour that allows other teams to interview the best candidates.

      The nice thing is there are a number of HC candidates that would be an upgrade so we don’t need to be the first to hire, but still.

    • Mr. Drucker in hooterville

      If the Bears read Rob’s blog, perhaps we can be hopeful that Jody Allen does as well?

  31. James Z

    Rob’s breakdown of the 2016-2020 draft with who was available and who they actually drafted was, well, a true mind-fuck! What a disaster! That alone is a fireable offense, without even considering the Adams’ debacle.

  32. Rick

    If Wilson decides to leave than the only thing the Seahawks can do is look for the best return.
    Cut salary by releasing Wagner and see if anyone will give something up for Adams and his contract.
    If you can get #5 and #7 from the Giants and then hopefully trade back to pick up multiple late first and second round picks with the understanding that there it is not a very good year for elite first round talent depth that should allow you to potentially rebuild the trenches.

    Rob, the question is what do you think of Daniel Jones?
    Probably not as the long term franchise quarterback.
    But is he good enough for the next couple of years if the Seahawks then draft some potential talent for the future this year and next?

    • Simo

      Daniel Jones? Is he good enough for what?? A few 8-9 regular season records? Why do you think the Giants want to get rid of him? He’s no Russell Wilson!

      I see your point though, and it may come to this if Russ pushes the issue and demands a trade unless certain conditions are met! We could probably even end up worse off than Jones!

      • Peter

        Simo. Very generous. 8 or 9 wins? Dude has a 12-25 starting record.

        • Simo

          You’re probably right. Maybe 8-9 wins if the roster was as stacked as the LA Lambs!

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t rate Jones

      • MychestisBeastmode


    • Roy Batty

      Adams isn’t going anywhere in 2022. His dead cap is too much to take on. It would cost the team money equivalent to a top tier DLineman or Olineman. Then they would need to find his replacement and add that cost onto Adams dead cap hit.

      Anyone willing to give up a top FA acquisition just to dump Adams?

      It makes no financial sense, no matter how much people want it to happen.

      Their best plan is to utilize him properly Play him when the scheme calls for it, and sit his ass when it doesn’t. Don’t try changing him into something he is not, like the Jimmy Graham blocking fiasco from a few years ago. Utilize his speed and determination. And for god’s sake, keep him out of single coverage!

      I hated the trade and despised the new contract, but I will gladly put up with the mouth, the strut and the podium BS as long as they can add a top tier FA with the money. Then, when it makes financial sense, trade him and move on.

      • RugbyLock

        To utilize the Peacock properly you’d need a new defensive scheme and DC… He might have the talent to be “the best in the nation” but PC and KNJ obviously have no clue on how to properly use him.

        • bmseattle

          Unfortunately, with a potentially chronically bad shoulder, we may not even be able to utilize him “properly”, without him getting hurt again, and again, and…

          • AlaskaHawk

            Yes, he’s one more shoulder injury from retirement. Thanks to the Seahawks generous retirement plan.

  33. Palatypus

    This whole debacle reminds me of the first time I was at the Senior bowl “Meet and Greet” back in 2012. I was on the second floor of the Mobile convention center where the players from the South team were all at tables with long lines for autographs bracketed by the New Orleans Saints cheerleaders and various NFL Experience attractions. They were finishing up their session when the members of the North squad showed up early.

    Their ditsy event planner, let’s call her “Jodi”, realized her error and told the players to “Wait here” while she went ahead and sorted things out. This left the 57 players in a long single file line stranded on the sky bridge between the parking garage and the crowded convention center. Realizing what was happening, I thought this would be a good opportunity to take a slow walk across the bridge and see who passes the eyeball test.

    Specifically, I was looking for Quentin Coples, who at 6’7” was the tallest player at the combine that year. I knew Seattle needed a DE and we had been linked to him. I found him easily, then the player standing next to him caught my eye with his arms folded defiantly across his chest.

    “That must be the asterisk.” I thought to myself. That was how I knew Russell Wilson from the Football Outsiders article detailing how he checked the box on every measurable for a successful NFL quarterback except height.

    Clearly, he was angry.

    “This is completely ridiculous,” he muttered. Then he looked right at me as I walked past him and said, “Someone needs to take control of this situation.”

    I nodded and said nothing. But I instantly liked him. I remember thinking, “Wilson – big shoulders. Built like a running back. Coples – too skinny. Another bust like Alex Barron.” Thank god we took Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, and DangerRuss.

    • Rob Staton

      Love that 💯

      • Palatypus

        Bobby Wagner also played in that game.

    • Erik

      I enjoyed reading this. Thank you for sharing.

      • Palatypus

        You’re welcome. I think about this all the time.

        • Mr. Drucker in hooterville

          Did you take control of the situation?

          • Palatypus

            Hell no !!!

            • Hawk Mock

              Did Russ? Hell No!! Is he(not his agent or various Cowherd’s in his life) finally going to say, “me or Pete!” Who Knows!!

    • Olyhawksfan

      Great story, thanks for sharing.

      • Palatypus

        You’re welcome.

  34. Blitzy the Clown

    The #Bears will interview former #Eagles Super Bowl-winning coach Doug Pederson tomorrow, source said. He also recently spoke with the #Jaguars.— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) January 11, 2022

    As a Jew, this feels a lot like every Christmas from my childhood.

    • bmseattle


  35. bmseattle

    One thing that has become clear over the past week… Pete definitely wants to keep coaching.

    Any hopes of him classily stepping aside are now gone.

    Pete and John are doubling down on their hubris, digging their heels in the sand, daring anyone to push back or call them on their bluff.

    At this point, I can see them (actually, expect them to) pull the exact same crap that they did last off season… which means ignoring the entire Wilson drama completely.

    Even if Wilson goes completely out of character, demanding a trade, bad mouthing management, etc., I don’t think they’d trade him.

    Our only hope is Jody Allen.
    And she is giving us nothing.

    The fact that she gave both Pete and John extensions last year, tells us that she was satisfied with the team’s results up until then. So I don’t buy the whole, “she’s taking the last several years into account, not just this year” narrative.

    And if she was happy last year, it’s difficult to imagine she does a 180 flip on her opinion, based on one “off year”, especially with Wilson being hurt.

    I fear she trusts that Pete and John will “figure it out”, and that them figuring it out is them knowing that Russ is a competitor and will play his ass off next year, even if forced to stay here.

    At this point, signs are pointing to them all being here, unfortunately.
    I’m holding out hope for Allen forcing Pete and John out… but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      One thing that has become clear over the past week… Pete definitely wants to keep coaching.

      I agree 100%

      Any hopes of him classily stepping aside are now gone.

      I don’t agree with this. I think there is still hope that Carroll steps aside, after having made clear he wants to stay, and having lobbied Wilson to stay (presumably unsuccessfully), I think he could very well step aside at that point.

      Pete and John are doubling down on their hubris, digging their heels in the sand, daring anyone to push back or call them on their bluff.

      I agree with the first part – they are doubling down on their hubris and digging their heels in the sand (at least Carroll is). But I disagree they’re daring for pushback or to be called out on their bluffs. I think, and again, I’ll limit it to Carroll, I think he’s desperate to save his job. I don’t see any ‘daring’ in his stance at all.

      At this point, I can see them (actually, expect them to) pull the exact same crap that they did last off season… which means ignoring the entire Wilson drama completely.

      I agree 100% that they would do this if they could. But I don’t think they will be able to, because I think Wilson won’t let them.

      Even if Wilson goes completely out of character, demanding a trade, bad mouthing management, etc., I don’t think they’d trade him.

      This is a possibility. But I think it would be disastrous for them. I’m not convinced Wilson would play next year for Seattle if he demands a trade but is denied. I think he could very well decide to sit out the season. What’s in it for him to play? Not the money, he has plenty of that, with the promise of making plenty more in seasons to come. Certainly not a Super Bowl shot. That’s the whole reason he wants out. And what about the risk of injury? He was lucky the injury he suffered this season wasn’t worse. A broken finger and torn ligament on his throwing hand could’ve ended his career. The next injury might. I don’t know that he takes that chance, especially behind a Pete Carroll OL, on a team he doesn’t think can get him where he wants to go.

      The fact that she gave both Pete and John extensions last year, tells us that she was satisfied with the team’s results up until then…And if she was happy last year, it’s difficult to imagine she does a 180 flip on her opinion, based on one “off year”, especially with Wilson being hurt

      Indeed, but they were 6-1 at that point. They went 6-3 for the rest of the season, then lost in the WC round vs a team led by a backup QB in what was one of the worst, least inspiring post season performances you could imagine. And then there’s this season. So I don’t agree that Allen being unhappy at the end of this season is a 180º flip from her opinion at the end of last season. But I admit we don’t know what her opinion was at the end of last season.

      I fear she trusts that Pete and John will “figure it out”, and that them figuring it out is them knowing that Russ is a competitor and will play his ass off next year, even if forced to stay here.

      I don’t think Allen is making evaluations and decisions in a vacuum by herself. So even if she decides not to make changes in the FO, I don’t think it would be because she has some blind faith that they’ll figure it out. And for the reasons I stated above, I don’t think it’s anything remotely close to a certainty that Wilson would play for Seattle if they refuse to trade him.

      At this point, signs are pointing to them all being here, unfortunately.

      I agree that’s what the signs seem to be pointing to “at this point”. But Seattle’s season ended only 2 days ago.

    • TomLPDX

      I’m holding out hope for Allen forcing Pete and John out… but I wouldn’t bet on it.

      Here’s a reason I wouldn’t bet on it either…She is dealing with the situation with the Portland Trailblazers. I don’t think she wants the added stress and distraction of both of her sports teams. Deal with the Blazers this year, the Seahawks down the road.

      • Tomas

        … and Jody may also be busy re-organizing her smuggled bone collection. Cheap shot, I know – still hoping she’ll surprise me.

  36. Denver Hawker

    Last year, the Hawks won the division and lost in the playoffs. They fired the OC 3 days later.

    This year, the Hawks finish dead last, and they’re just going to chalk it up to bad luck and everyone is safe? Russ is out 3 games and everyone gets a mulligan?

    If Jody buys this BS for another season, there must be redlines drawn. Coaches on hot seats usually get a “playoffs or bust” mandate. Expectations ought to be even higher here with a franchise QB in his prime.

    • Rob Staton

      Should’ve been playoff progress this year or bust, issued a year ago

      • Denver Hawker

        It’s easier that way frankly.

        Pete and John have earned the control they have so that we shouldn’t have to scrutinize the how as much as we have done. At a certain point, they either they get back to an NFC championship or they don’t, and it’s their failure. No excuses- they make their own bed. I almost don’t care how they do it. Be reckless! Trade all the picks, give everyone void years for all I care. If it works- awesome. But if it doesn’t, they should be gone. Pretty simple to me at this stage.

  37. SeattleLifer

    Scary part about this all is even if things do stay the course management/coaching wise then Pete and John for all their denial, hubris and glossing will almost certainly be feeling significant pressure to do better this off-season than ever before : first losing season in so long, first time the fan base started turning on them, another off-season of Russ being dissatisfied, national media criticism and so on. So the scary part is what have they shown when they feel pressured for winning results(all the while knowing they have real deficiencies on the roster)? They’ve shown two things a) that they will double down on what they know – ie. peteball/philosophies through and through, and b) that they will do desperate things/make poor decisions with the roster. Letting go of some guys they shouldn’t, retaining/over paying guys they shouldn’t, poor drafting reaches for needs, poor/expensive trades for “their guys” that they hope will put them over the top/desperately fill holes they created through years of trash roster building, etc and so on.

    These guys should’nt be trusted to run things for another nanosecond – they have gone from the team with the best roster in the nfl not long ago to a shell of what it was all the while both alienating and squandering the prime years of a hall of fame quarterback. If we were looking at a business that not long ago was the industry leader with one of the most talented lead (insert position that would equate to Russ) people in the business and said business was run into the ground – (especially refusing to compliment their top guy with capable support see our o-line over most of Russ’s career…), earnings/results became poor(1 crappy playoff win in 5 years and a bad losing season finally), hiring and holding onto ‘yes guys’ who are poor at their job(see Norton Ken jr etc), clear friction between the lead player and the CEO, no accountability for the higher ups and growing dissatisfaction from investors, a growing poorer image from the media and others in the industry – there is NO way that the CEO(see Pete) wouldn’t be canned.

    If nothing much changes it all would just point to Allen and if that were to be the case then we are stuck with what we have because she clearly has her reasons to have even extended Pete and John for so long in the first place. Then the only thing left to hope for is an even worse off-season and another losing record next year to truly force action to be taken because Pete and John at this point have proven they need to go because I’d rather go through one more bad go around to get rid of those who need to go rather than let the stick around for who knows how long to bring this team to as place so bad that there would be no foreseeable light at the end of the tunnel and if you think ahead just enough to see Pete and John continue the erosion(delusion really) for 2-4 more years and Russ getting older, well to me it’s not a pretty picture at all.

  38. Luis Guilherme

    “The Seahawks could’ve had any of these players. Instead, they selected Germain Ifedi, Malik McDowell, Rashaad Penny, L.J. Collier, Marquis Blair and Jordyn Brooks”

    I went to a website called “Seahawks Draft Blog” and all of those choices but Jordyn Brooks received praise.

    Hindsight is 20/20.

    • Rob Staton

      Well, if you’re going to have a dig, at least be truthful and full in your review of what was said.

      I wrote multiple articles expressing my distinct disinterest in Malik McDowell because I had major reservations about his attitude:

      His body language is atrocious. I remember watching this interview during the season and immediately thought ‘this guy doesn’t seem like a Seahawk’.

      It seems like it isn’t just a lack of enthusiasm for the media either. Eric Edholm reported the following about how teams viewed McDowell’s interviews at the combine:

      “Worst interview we did,” said one team. Added another: “Awful interview. Awful.”

      “Does he love football? Is he going to work? I can’t figure out what makes this kid tick. He might be the type who, maybe he falls and it lights a fire under him. I don’t know. But I need that light on more often, and he didn’t like it when we asked him about that. McDowell might never fully show his full skill, but passing on him also means you’re missing out on a potentially rare talent.”

      We can go through all the Pete Carroll ‘master motivator’ spiel as much as we want. Do you really imagine the Seahawks spending a first round pick on a player of this character?

      I suspect they were bringing him in to prod him and poke him and hopefully the fire lights up. Yet everything about him — effort, demeanour, body language — it’s not good.

      Always compete? He might need a Mike Zimmer style coach to drag him kicking and screaming into a successful career.

      I also compared TJ Watt physically to Khalil Mack and mocked him to Seattle on the Seahawkers pod right before R1.

      When they drafted McDowell, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and discussed the player’s qualities. It didn’t change the fact I had major reservations about his character that were proven to be fair game. And it didn’t change my interest in Watt. What I wrote about him was 100% spot on.

      At no point did I consider Rashaad Penny a R1 pick. I liked him and thought he was a R2-3. I was a big fan of the RB class and thought specifically that Chubb, Jones and Johnson were very interesting players. I received some information from a top notch source on Jones and cooled on him as a consequence.

      When they selected Penny I again discussed his positive qualities, accepted that they’d drafted the RB they wanted (given they had their pick of everyone not named Saquon) and discussed the players qualities. None of that changes that I had Chubb rated far higher. Thus, it’s a bit rich to paint this as ‘you didn’t hammer the Seahawks at the time’. Why would I? It’s not hindsight to say I rated one player far higher than the other and now go back and say the team got it badly wrong, which they did.

      L.J. Collier I considered a second rounder. I liked his tape and his Senior Bowl. I did not like his physical profile and consistently talked about that being a problem. At no point did I project the Seahawks to take him as early as they did — in fact I often pointed out that taking him would go against their approach on D-liners because he didn’t fit their typical ideals, being such a poor athlete.

      I thought the class was absolutely superb at receiver and I spent considerable time in that draft cycle discussing Terry McLaurin and Deebo Samuel. I’m quite happy with that analysis, especially considering I was not a fan at all of N’Keal Harry or Andy Isabella. I never expected DK Metcalf to fall out of round one but discussed why he might not go top-10 (injury). We often talked about the Seahawks snapping him up if available, which they eventually did.

      Back to Collier — they needed a pass rusher, I liked Collier’s tape and discussed what he did well. Again, what is the criticism here? That I should’ve hammered the pick? I never thought they should’ve taken him that early and I did talk about the McLaurin’s and Samuel’s in that range. So yes, I will criticise that as a reach and I will discuss the players I actually talked about with great passion who were not named Collier.

      I liked Marquise Blair. I never, not once, thought the Seahawks would draft him. So again, what’s the issue here? Are you only allowed to critique bad picks if you hammer them on the day?

      So yeah — by all means debate my arguments. Cheap shots about ‘hindsight’ need to be fleshed out more than you have.

      • STTBM

        +1 Rob. Collier has proven to be unfit for the NFL due to lacking athleticism, McDowell for lacking everything but. And you pretty much said as much. Yeah, Collier is worse than you thought he’d be, but the criticism was unfounded.

        You appear to have been right about Tua as well, and I thought he’d be good. Derwin James is one guy you whiffed on, his college coaches misused him, but his career has been detailed by injuries almost as bad as Penny’s.

        And you didn’t deserve the bashing.

        • Rob Staton

          A large part of my evaluation on James was due to the injuries

          • STTBM

            I do remember injuries being a concern. You also thought he didn’t make enough splash plays. That was apparently due to poor scheme/coaching, but the injury bug has haunted him. Regardless, you do an excellent job overall, and I felt the need to put in for you.

  39. Andy J

    A slightly different take… what if Carroll’s press conference was a deliberate attempt not to influence ownership but to change the media narrative. Carroll is facing increased pressure and is no doubt on the hot seat for next year. I take him at his word that his job is safe. Now his job is trying to put the Genie back into the bottle once media has got the taste of a post-Pete world.

    That being said… please give more control to Schneider and put more money into scouting/management help. Please go get a new DC. I say, even, keep Norton. Just name the new DC an Asst HC. But not Jim Mora Jr style. And please go get some exciting offensive staff additions. I want to see talent and BAMFs on the sidelines.

  40. Rob Staton

    Joe Judge out in NYG

    Could be significant this, given NYG has been linked heavily with RW…

    • TomLPDX

      The NY teams are just a disaster!

    • olyhawksfan

      Maybe they’ll steal Sean Payton away. And then trade for Russ.

    • SeaTown

      What a shitebow!

    • 12th chuck

      I still think there is hope yet, if you start telling pc he no longer has personnel control or telling him to get rid of certain coaches, he might want to leave (that’s all I have left to grasp anyways)

    • Peter

      I read this as well.

      50 million to a person(s) with several billion is nothing.

      Most of us on this site pay a greater portion to our phone plans if we have smart phones in a year relative to our incomes then paying off carrol would be for Jody or the trust.

      • DT

        I’ve seen this bandied about a few times, and the actuality is we have no idea how Jody values money.
        We do know her security detail, as part of their lawsuit, cited the fact that when she invited them to dinner she didn’t expect them to be paid- dinner was their payment apparently, allegedly.
        She could very well think $50M is too much to burn for what on the surface appears to be an effective coach.

        • Peter

          The trust just sold two huge asets under market value. Or at least what they thought of market value.

          For me it doesn’t matter how somehow views money. It’s the reality of thst worth.

          She may very well think 50 million spent is not a good loss. And in msny ways thst’s ptobably right. But what Pete’s buyout is worth is still irrelevant to a multi billionaire.

  41. Palatypus

    Jets and Lions coaching staff named for Senior Bowl.

  42. Rob Staton

    “so far”

    • cha

      Unfun fact: three of those coaches have beaten the Seahawks this year or last

  43. BobbyK

    There was one play on a screen pass where Cody Barton failed to make a tackle that Wagner makes 99.9% of the time the other day.

    Other than that, I noticed no difference between Wagner and Barton.

    So, Pete, just how good is your $20M linebacker?

    • BobbyK

      For the record, prime Bobby Wagner is about the 2nd best MLB I’ve ever seen. He was never better than Ray Lewis but he wasn’t far behind. I hope Wagner comes back, but he’s not a $20M LB like he was in ’19.

      • TomLPDX

        Different rules during Ray Lewis times.

        • BobbyK

          Ray was still better.

          • bmseattle

            Lewis was the best MLB I’ve seen.
            lawrence Taylor, the best OLB.

            Bobby is probably the best MLB of his generation.
            Luke Kuechly may have been better at his best, but Bobby has had the better career.

            • BobbyK


    • MychestisBeastmode

      He did whiff, tackling nothing but air, on a short over the middle dump off to AJ Green, I believe. It was either late 2nd quarter or early 3rd quarter. But yes, overall, Barton was fine and did not seem to be a liability.

  44. Sam

    The local media is spineless and won’t ask difficult questions. This kind of press conference will never fly in a town like Philly. Pete has accountability issues and both ownership and media needs to hold him accountable for what he has performed as both coach and VP of the team.

    • TomLPDX

      And then when you listen to Mike Dugar’s podcast, he asks the tough questions. I’m like, what the hell, MSD! Why aren’t you asking these questions during the press conference!

  45. Big Mike

    You know a thought occurred to me……..if I were a businessman with multiple holdings, one of things I’d least like to see in the people that run my companies is nepotism. It breeds resentment in other employees and makes for a poor work environment. I know Jody inherited Paul’s operations, but for the love of God she should’ve all along been able to see that Carroll engaged in nepotism by hiring his own kid. If she had half a damned brain, the contract extension for him never would’ve been given based on that alone. That does not bode well for her being strong enough to move on from Carroll imo.

    • TomLPDX

      Kids. Plural.


        It’s all through sports. Sons of coaches getting jobs is as old as the league. Front offices too.

        It’s very much a family business and one you’re likely to understand better if you grow up in it.

        Recommend reading “Son of Bum” .

  46. Robert Las Vegas

    You know always baffles me we when Seattle Seahawks defense lineman go into pass coverage.i don’t get it

    • TomLPDX

      Always infuriated me

      • BobbyK

        I can see why our defensive coaches call those plays though. It’s because most of our pass rushers suck. It’s as simple as that. Why “rush” someone you know full well won’t get any pressure? It’s a waste. At least putting them in coverage means they have a chance to tackle someone.

        In all seriousness, it used to drive me nuts and piss me off back when Chris Clemons was our only decent pass rusher and we’d see him drop back into coverage. I can see it done in moderation, but not as regularly as our guys do. Seeing LJ Collier in the open field the other day made me want to smash my head into the wall (yet we know he wouldn’t have actually gotten any pressure either – because he’s a 1st round bum/bust).

  47. Strategicdust

    Thanks for the article, Rob. We really need done one to get this sent directly to Jodi and the front office before they make their decision to at least frame the discussion with both Pete and John. Time for a change now!

    • Rob Staton

      If only we could

  48. Timothy Burch

    Retool 2022 part III. Seems awfully quite on the Pete and John getting fired front. Let the battle of wills begin between front office and Russell Wilson Camp. RW got a right tackle out of it last year problem is they already had one in Lewis. Depressing. Hoping for the best… tired of seeing the same regime get another go with no real meaningful change in control, decision making, and honest assessment of its direction. Same coaches, same players, same front office. Sigh.

    • Timothy Burch

      Apologies Right Guard.

      • BobbyK

        If we can retain Brown, our OL situation will look great on paper (except Center) going into the 2022 season.

        As of now, we have three good guards I really like. Phil Haynes is a legit NFL guard. I’m not sure how the hell Pete Carroll could have coached him for two entire years and not known that already, but I’m glad he’s at least a restricted free agent.

        Lewis is a good LG moving forward. Personally, I’d love him to move back to RG with Jackson getting the boot to save salary cap space. But if they go into next season with all three of these guards – they will be really good with great depth.

        Last year we had Shell at RT. This is a guy who is/was okay in pass pro and a liability in the run game. But now we actually have an OL anchor moving forward with the Curhan find. I love this guy. He moves people in the run game. He’s a real man. He’s young, improving, and cheap. These are the types of players/contracts championship teams need to help the rest of the roster.

        If we can get a decent FA Center – this team will dominate up front next year in the running game, imo.

        • bmseattle

          I’m cautiously optimistic on Curhan, but would be nervous just counting on him to be our RT going forward.
          If they like Stone, then I suppose you can let the two compete… but it’s a risk.
          Really, if they can sign a big time RT in free agency, they should probably do it.
          Though, I agree, that Center is the greater priority.
          That is, I’d rather have a big upgrade at center and roll with Curhan, than have a big upgrade at RT and roll with Pocic.

          • BobbyK

            Their salary cap space will run low fast once they start resigning guys. I don’t think they can afford to sign a good RT (which will cost a lot) when they have a good young one for cheap). They have too many other holes that need more attention, imo.

            Going with Haynes, Lewis, and Curhan will mean 3/5 of the OL is going to be pretty cheap. Not cheap-cheap, but quality-cheap. This will allow us to hopefully resign Brown and possibly get a good Center. Not simply a bum Center.

            • Big Mike

              They need to work with Curhan on his pass pro. It ain’t great. OTOH, his run blocking is well above average.

            • AlaskaHawk

              Curhan is a real find – so far. They need a center and a left tackle. And for god sakes put Lewis back at right guard where he belongs. I pray they haven’t ruined Lewis already.

  49. Rad_man

    “Ryan Neal, on a free agent salary, has provided a perfectly adequate, if not superior, replacement.“

    In fact overall this staff has done a great job fielding a very cheap and effective secondary on the fly.

    • Rob Staton

      Having totally neglected the CB position in the off-season, yes

    • Peter

      A slight correction. They fielded an expensive secondary and built a second cheaper secondary on the fly.

    • Ashish

      Ryan Neal is X2 better than Jamal Adams, cost 0 picks compare to 2 first rounder + 3rd rounder + Decent SS. Oh wait he 20 time cheaper than Adams and comes with no drama.

      • Rad_man

        The Ryan Neal case is a compliment to the staff. As are the other CBs they found and coached up. One of the values of this staff and front office. Not seeing the critique here as all that valid. Plenty of other areas to gripe about, this rings hollow.

        • Turp

          It’s a compliment to Ryan Neal, not the staff. Going to disagree there…

          • Rob Staton

            I think it’s both. The staff and Neal deserve credit.

            But in a way this all just makes the Adams trade harder to fathom. It was a desperate move and they’ve doubled down.

      • Pran

        So you are saying we can recoup 2 firsts by trading Neal

        • Peter

          If they trade him to themselves.

  50. Rob Staton

    Worth noting…

    • olyhawksfan

      Get after it Jody!!!

  51. DarrellDownUnder

    Ugh. What are they waiting for? Sure feels like they are kicking the can….

    • Rad_man

      Billionaires run on their own schedule.

  52. Ashish

    Damm it Pete fooled Jody Allen. Surprised a little, because Allen was looking for a change. Now only if Russ wants to be out because of Pete but again Russ is nice person.
    Are we stuck with Pete or i should still hope for?

  53. BobbyK

    Love how Pete says, “We’ve been so close throughout the season”.

    Um, Pete, I took my son to the Vikings game. You know the one you lost 30-17 and could have lost by more? We left midway through the 4th quarter because we knew the game was over. Don’t insult my intelligence and say how close you were all season. You were utterly dominated relatively early in the 2nd, all 3rd, and 4th quarter that game. Absolutely dominated. But, yes, you were so “close”. Hope your fantasy land is a fun place to be.

    • Cortez Kennedy

      Imagine if Cook had played…

      We were also “so close” to beating the Bears but Pete played not to lose with his talented roster he built.

  54. GoHawksDani

    If ownership doesn’t have the guts to pull the trigger fans should force them. This is a business afterall. If fans doesn’t show up, don’t buy merch, etc owners must realise they have to step up (or sell the franchise)

  55. Roy Batty

    I’m quite tired of the “if’s”. Especially the “if’s” regarding close games.

    “If” all the teams in the league won their close games, every team would have a winning record.

    Here’s a very simple “if” for someone in the Seattle press to ask Pete Carroll: If you had spent money on a top FA center or drafted Humphrey, would Wilson have broken his finger on Aaron Donald’s helmet?

    I would pay good money to see the reaction from Pete. Live. In person. In a suddenly pin-drop quiet room.

    • Peter

      The ifs are great…if the nfl had a shadow playoff where the teams that were “right there in the end,” could battle back into the playoffs.

      What’s that? They already have that system? You say it’s called “the regular season,” where if your “ifs,” are actual wins and not fantasy wins you get a chance at a title…

  56. Denver Hawker

    I thought it’d be interesting to map the non-playoff teams by draft order and head coaching tenure:

    1. Jax- TBD
    2. Detroit- 1st yr coach
    3. Houston- 1st yr coach
    4. Jets- 1st yr coach
    5. NY Giants- TBD
    6. Carolina- 2nd yr coach
    7. Chicago (pick traded)- TBD
    8. Atlanta- 1st yr coach
    9. Denver- TBD
    10. Seattle (pick traded)- 11 yr coach

    11. WFT- 2nd yr coach
    12. Minnesota- TBD
    13. Cleveland- 2nd yr coach
    14. Baltimore- 14 yr coach
    15. Miami (pick traded)- TBD
    16. Indy (pick traded)- 4th yr coach
    17. Chargers- 1st yr coach
    18. Saints- 15 yr coach

    Seattle- was 1-2 without Wilson- may be argued he played injured afterward, but Pete was quoted saying the finger wasn’t an issue for him
    Baltimore- was 8-4 before they lost Lamar- lost last 5 games to miss the playoffs
    Saints- were 5-2 before they lost Winston, lost 5 straight after, then switched from Semiem to Hill to finish 4-6 without Winston (3 wins against Jets, Panthers, Falcons).

    In Summary, only 4 teams missed the playoffs under a coach with more than 2 years at the helm. 1 of them just missed without a franchise QB at all. Another was well on the way to the playoffs and lost its franchise QB to end the last 5 games with losses. Colts just missed the playoffs with Carson Wentz..

    The Seahawks finished worst among these 4 teams, with its franchise QB missing only 3 games. What’s worse, is they don’t even benefit from the injury, having already traded their 1st round pick.

    They are an outlier among peers and acting as if above reproach.

    • MychestisBeastmode

      Well put!

    • Roy Batty

      I feel I must point out a glaring mistake you’ve made: you used facts to prove your point.

      That doesn’t work with a good amount of Seahawk fans.

      • Peter

        It’s also waaay too many characters to be true.

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      I think Pete is the only person I have heard say that the finger didn’t bother Russ. And I don’t think he believes it either.

  57. JimQ

    Good players have good stats; bad players have bad stats. -And- Good coaches have good stats; bad coaches have bad stats. So, it only makes sense that we get rid of bad players with bad stats easily, so it should also be easy to get rid of bad coaches with bad stats. By coaches I’m referring to both the VERY incompetent KEN NORTON and the shuffling old man that whines and makes excuses a lot – PC. What is the old saying? “The buck stops at the TOP”.

  58. MychestisBeastmode

    Taken from PFFs free agent rankings. Looks like it was written around week 13 FYI. Read on but be sure to read the very last paragraph and tell me they’re not taking an ice cold dig at Jamal Adams, straight up insinuating he’s hurt Diggs’ value due to his lack of versatility in coverage.

    Diggs is a pure free safety who rarely leaves the deep third of the field, patrolling the backend while new addition Jamal Adams plays in the box and closer to the line of scrimmage. Diggs does not miss an opportunity to turn the ball over, intercepting 21.6% of passes thrown into his coverage since 2019, which is the top mark among safeties. That has translated into 11 interceptions over the span (tied for third among safeties).

    Diggs could push for a contract similar to those recently doled out to the San Francisco 49ers‘ Jimmie Ward (three years, $28.5 million), former Las Vegas Raiders safety Lamarcus Joyner (four years, $42 million) and former Houston Texans safety Tashaun Gipson Sr. (three years, $22.5 million). All three players are under 6-foot and were at least 28 years old at the time of signing.

    – Recognition and instincts
    – Athletic range in zone coverage

    – Playmaking at the catch point
    – Tackling on the perimeter

    Scheme Fit/Role:
    RELIABLE STARTING SAFETY: Diggs’ position change was the best thing to happen to his trajectory, and his skill set would be a core piece for any secondary. He’s been a capable free safety for the Seahawks, but he could add even more value to a defense that prefers to play multiple coverage schemes.

    Recent Injury History:
    Diggs hasn’t been listed on a gameday injury report since 2019, which was for a high-ankle sprain. In that same season, the safety struggled with recovering from a hamstring injury.

    Contract Projection: Three years, $24 million ($8M per year, $13.5M total guaranteed)

    Bottom Line:
    Diggs won’t be a transformative addition, but his addition would provide relief to any defense in the middle of the field. One can make the argument that if Seattle had another safety versatile enough to mix up its coverages, Diggs would have more tape showcasing his versatility.

    • MychestisBeastmode

      Pete, who insisted Jamal Adams was worth 2 1sts?

      Pete, who insisted Jamal need be re-signed at his record salary rather than letting him walk or finding the best trade available and cut losses while reallocating resources?

      Pete, how did you envision JA fitting into the defense and/or best utilizing his talents?

      Pete, do you feel JAs talents have been maximized in the Seahawks scheme?

      Pete, do you think JA had elevated the Seahawks defense? Follow up: Pete, if yes, how do you explain the very poor team def stats that have trended in the wrong direction even after his trade + extension?

      Pete, do you think the cost of JAs contract is more beneficial than signing an impact lineman (offense or defense)? Why?

      In the famous word from Top Gun Colonel after Maverick requested the fly-by, “Damnit! That’s twice! I want some butts!”

      • Palatypus

        That was “Stinger” played by James Tolkan. Also, Principle Strickland in Back to the Future.

        You’re a slacker McFly!

        • MychestisBeastmode

          Stinger, that’s it! Thanks Palatypus!

      • MychestisBeastmode

  59. HawkGuy

    For whatever it’s worth, I know a guy in DKs camp. He told me yesterday that the Seahawks have already offered him a 4 year 100m contract extension, but he is waiting to see what Russ does before moving on it. The contract has been on the table for several weeks. That tells me there is some serious concern about what Russ is going to do moving forward.

    • Rowdy

      Everything russ has done and said says he wants to go to a bigger market.

      • no frickin clue

        I think it’s more about joining forces with an offense-focused head coach than it is about market size per se, for Russ. The four teams that Russ mentioned last season (Chicago, Dallas, New Orleans, Vegas) were all run by offense-first HCs. But the market size data are different. Chicago and Dallas certainly are bigger markets, but New Orleans and Vegas are smaller than Seattle’s.

        The scuttlebutt this year about the Giants and Eagles (both big markets) were not (I think) Russ pointing at those places and saying “I want to go there”, but rather people speculating that since both clubs have multiple first-round picks, that’s good fodder for trades. I could be wrong.

        Market size data found here:

    • bmseattle


      I gotta ask… is the implication that DK *wants* to play with Russ… or *doesn’t want* to play with him?

      From the outside, is hasn’t looked like the DK has been very happy with Russ for the past couple of months.

      • Peter

        I get that from a body language point of view. Who knows really.

        Outside very few QB’s the grass is a desert waste land on the other side. Maybe the arm strength of herbert, Burrows, allen, mahomes, and Rodgers plus the brains of Brady could use him better (more.) Since I have yet to see him takeover even the way a Lockett can I would doubt that he would be putting up these monster numbers ( which equals cash,) with hardly any other team in the league.

        • Rob Staton

          The other thing is, even if there’s some disconnect with RW, DK equally isn’t going to want to be stuck catching passes from Teddy Bridgewater

          • HawkGuy

            My understanding is that he absolutely wants to stay if Russ stays. He doesn’t want a journeyman QB throwing to him. He’s also in the process of changing agents.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Assuming this is true, and assuming DK would sign the offer if Wilson remains a Seahawk, I wonder what pressure, if any, it adds on ownership choosing Wilson over Carroll.

      Find a new HC, or lose your franchise QB and your star WR.

  60. GaiusMarius

    The pro-Pete crowd is out in force and emboldened right now. “Told ya so” is what most of it boils down to as we are going to “run it back” next season.

    I wouldn’t make that prediction just yet, but if Allen is waiting until late in the week to get that meeting in with Carroll you can’t help but see that as a tell.

    • Peter

      The tribalism in modern life online is pathetic.

      Even in this instance. Pete can be both the best coast Seattle has ever had and he can be out of ideas….

      If he continues on ,and Russ had an off year, and somhow the band plays on….if Seattle continues with this core-less bloated contracts, multi season one and done in the playoffs…who exactly would be telling whom so? PC will still be the winningest coach in Seattle and in two years a 36 year old Russ will just walk on out to whomever has the best roster in the land ala Peyton Manning and probably pull a Manning getting another ring being a cog on a great team.

  61. Denver Hawker

    Russ out here with the cryptic tweet:

    First comment might be accurate.

    • Rob Staton

      You know the off-season is here when the cryptic tweets begin

    • GoHawks5151

      FWIW there is a similar black and white photos group with other players. There is a near identical tunnel one of DJ Dallas. They seem to be a set. No more critic stuff Russ. Throw down the gauntlet!

    • Peter

      If Russ “chose,” to go to cleveland and won them a championship…

      He’d be as popular as their native son, lebron James, who is always coming and going for that city.

      Football wise….that roster is stacked with a team built to win right now.

      • Big Mike

        If I were him that would be my 2nd choice after New Orleans (assuming Payton stays).

  62. Hawks4life

    Is Pete really going to run out the only franchise QB Seattle has ever had? If so his ignorance runs deeper than I could’ve ever imagined.

    • Rob Staton

      No, he’s going to try and act like everything is hunky dory and hope that by cracking on, Wilson will simply create another media shit-storm then come back into camp after months more of drama, and the Seahawks will then be perfectly placed for a Championship run — as we saw in 2021.

      • Hawks4life

        The whole offseason has already left a bad taste in my mouth.

        • Peter

          Hang in their internet friend. Senior bowl is here soon. All the articles Rob will hopefully write about talent yet again (like every freaking year seemingly,) we can’t consider.

          Before you know it PC/JS can tweet “with our first pick in the draft we already got our guy!!!!!”

          Jokes aside.

          Rob, part of the reason I hate the JA trade, selfishly, is this site legitimately got me into draft prognostication. Obviously the trade is hot garbage, obviously any time you whine about not getting a top 10 pick at the same time as costing a top 10 pick you should be fired…but from a nerdy standpoint i hate yet again watching the pomp of the draft just twiddling our thumbs as talent floats on by.

          • BobbyK

            Wouldn’t it be fun to debate guys like Trevor Penning, George Karlaftis, etc. with the 10th overall pick? Instead, we get to watch everyone else get them. Thanks to Carroll and Scheider “outsmarting” everyone else, we rarely get good things anymore.

          • Rob Staton

            Yeah… even in a bad draft class it would’ve been so much fun to debate that top 10 pick this year

            Feels like a whole interesting dynamic has been torn away from us. And the media seem to be glossing over the situation of how that came to be

            • Peter

              Almost infinite permutations. Debate the top ten pick or even guess if in this draft “trader john,” moves down to pick up Jordan Davis and another high second where I see good value for this team.

              I can’t believe I am typing this but there are even high second round safeties I like a lot to discuss and if Seattle drafts one this year I’ll die a little inside.

              • Rob Staton

                It’s a decent safety draft

                Adding to the ridiculousness of the situation

                But everything is fine…

            • bmseattle

              Top 10 picks are so rare, and having a high pick after a bad season is exciting and something to look forward to.
              For this site, in particular, it’s such a shame to not have the pleasure of discussing and anticipating a high first round pick.

              The *reason* we don’t have the pick, just makes it 10 times worse.

      • bmseattle

        “No, he’s going to try and act like everything is hunky dory and hope that by cracking on, Wilson will simply create another media shit-storm then come back into camp after months more of drama”

        At least we can all laugh at whatever zany antics Pete and John put on display during their press conference.

        • Rob Staton

          I bet they both chuckled away at the cardboard cutout idea.

          Ho Ho Ho.

          Those crazy cats.

          • bmseattle

            Not only are they the smartest guys in the room, they are also the funniest.

            • Peter

              Can not wait for the Twitter clues this year…..

  63. cha

    The one that got away.

    • DC

      That is too good, perfect form!

  64. cha

    Good news

    Ian Rapoport
    #Seahawks Pro Bowl S Quandre Diggs underwent successful surgery yesterday from noted expert Dr. Robert Anderson to repair his broken fibula and dislocated ankle, source said. The surgery went well with no complications and he has a 4-5 month recovery.

    • James Cr.

      I like Diggs but I am super worried they are going to sign him to a monster contract and have the two highest paid safeties in the league.

      • AlaskaHawk

        If Diggs were healthy, 10 million a year would not be unreasonable. There was a previous post saying that Diggs has a 21.6% interception rate on balls thrown his way. Turnovers are what the Seahawks need. As a reference Adams is getting over 17 million.

        I would love to have Diggs back, but the injury makes me question when he would be back.

        • bmseattle

          Under the circumstances, the Seahawks may be willing to offer Diggs more than anyone else.
          I think the injury greatly increased the odds that he comes back.

          It’s such a tough situation, because I’d love to have him back. He’s a leader, a playmaker, and our best DB.

          However, giving 3rd contracts to players approaching 30 has burnt the team several times. Guys can decline pretty quickly, and injuries are a huge factor to consider. (putting aside that Diggs is already hurt)

          Then there’s the whole “where to put your money” issue. If we agree that putting resources into the trenches is the smart move going forward, I’m not sure how you can justify giving Diggs the kind of money he deserves.
          Though maybe you make exceptions for talented players? We certainly will with DK, I’d assume.

        • James Cr.

          Wow that seems low for Diggs – I would have thought he would be looking at Harrison Smith or Justin Simmons money at least.

          • AlaskaHawk

            this is a repost from Mychestisbeastmode , who got it from PFF?:
            Diggs is a pure free safety who rarely leaves the deep third of the field, patrolling the backend while new addition Jamal Adams plays in the box and closer to the line of scrimmage. Diggs does not miss an opportunity to turn the ball over, intercepting 21.6% of passes thrown into his coverage since 2019, which is the top mark among safeties. That has translated into 11 interceptions over the span (tied for third among safeties).

            Diggs could push for a contract similar to those recently doled out to the San Francisco 49ers‘ Jimmie Ward (three years, $28.5 million), former Las Vegas Raiders safety Lamarcus Joyner (four years, $42 million) and former Houston Texans safety Tashaun Gipson Sr. (three years, $22.5 million). All three players are under 6-foot and were at least 28 years old at the time of signing.

            Based on those numbers and his injury, 10 million per year is a good starting point. I just read that he should recover from the broken leg in 5 months, so I’m feeling more confident that he can play.

            NOw I know everyone is saying safety isn’t a priority, but we can’t lose both Adams and Diggs. I think we should also concentrate on paying players who contribute value. Diggs is the shining star in the backfield, I would say he is better than any other secondary player. So lets keep him, and build the rest of the team up.

            • Scot04

              I wish we could lose Adams. Safety was our lowest priority when we traded for Adams. I liked our safety room before the trade.
              Safety for 2022 is still by far one of our lowest priorities regardless of Diggs & Adams.
              Putting too much into Safety & LB has been the problem.
              A good passrush makes everything easier for LBs, Safties, & Corners.

              I guess if you’re hoping PC stays, then you could likely get both Diggs & Wagner back.
              Unfortunately we’ll likely also have the same O-Line.

              We need to focus on O-line & D-line as top 2 priorities.
              If you can get Diggs @ 8M per then sure, right now Wagner & Diggs money best spent elsewhere.
              Adams is the #1 reason you have to let both Diggs & Wagner go if you want to finally see changes.
              We simply can’t afford them & fix more pressing needs.

  65. no frickin clue

    I would love to see a 2020 and 2021 ranking of free agent signings, sorted by team and based on the average per year. Sort of like a histogram with every team its own column and dots representing individual signings. Best guess, the Seahawks would have a cluster of dots at medium values, and no dots at the higher values. I could build this if someone knew where to find the data.

    It feels like Pete and John were having Chinese for lunch one day, opened their fortune cookies and both of them found “Avoid expensive free agents.” staring back at them. Of course, some guys are expensive for a reason and sometimes they are worth it.

  66. Rob4q

    So looking at the OL candidates in the draft this year, seems like there are some good OT prospects, a lot of OG options and very few actual OC. So a few questions about them:

    Is Abraham Lucas strictly a RT or could he play LT? Why has Rasheed Walker slipped so far?

    Other than Linderbaum, who looks to be a 1st rounder, what other options are there at OC? Jarrett Patterson from ND? The other Lindstrom kid from BC? What about Gerard Wheeler from Tulsa?

    And if the OC options in the draft are slim, who might be available in FA?

    Seahawks need to find a OC this year somehow…someone who is physically able to stand up to the NT in the NFL but also smart enough to handle all the OL call outs. Too many times this OL looks lost when the other team runs a stunt or switch.

    • Rob Staton

      I think Abraham can play LT.

      Walker very inconsistent.

      Very poor Center draft. Have to hope names emerge. Forsyth at Oregon I think is returning.

      Ryan Jensen and James Daniels are FA. Might be some trade options like a year ago.

      • Big Mike

        And just think, the guy that could have been our Center for 12 years was sitting right in front of them last year. Well it’ll be fun watching the starting lineups for KC and see him say “Creed Humphrey, Alabama” for the next 12 or more years. I enjoy doing that when I see Joel Bitonio who Seattle could’ve had too. SIGH

        • uptop

          Humphrey played at Oklahoma. We were never taking him he has short arms. The bigger miss in my book was mienerz

          • Big Mike

            Oklahoma, my bad

            But yes, let’s not draft a guy who’s turned into one of the highest ranked Centers in the league because he has short arms. You’ve just highlighted one of the issues with this regime being their way is the only way. Tackle? I get it. Center? No.

            • Uptop

              I wouldn’t draft Humphrey myself, that’s a legitimate issue, in the interior line it’s all about leverage and having t rex arms hurts you.

              • Group Captain Mandrake

                His short arms don’t seem to be holding him back much. He’s already considered a pretty strong center and it was his first year. Part of the problems that the Hawks have had is strictly adhering to their ideal measurements. Look at the CBs for example. It took years for Seattle to move away from the long armed CB and DJ Reed and Tre Brown seem to be performing ok. Sometimes you have to look beyond one flaw because every player has them.

      • Scot04

        Love Jenson, he just seems to play angry. Seems to want to drive guys into the ground. Something we’ve definitely been missing on O-line

        • Peter

          More than any spot on the line he is the guy I want. Whether with Wilson (preferred) or not. Can not have a strong enough line moving forward.

    • cha

      I’d definitely be looking at Ben Jones. He’s 32, and has been extremely durable in his career.

  67. Seahawkwalt

    Rob. Hope you and your family are well. I appreciate you and CHA. Thoughts on Alec Pierce WR Cincinnati?

    • uptop

      Like him a lot, could be a good mind round pickup. Watch Krupp’s season inflate his value among armchair gms since he a white receiver

  68. Hawkdawg

    Carroll is a master manipulator of the media, and particularly the Seattle media. He’s a likeable guy, all in all, and canny as well, and that combination leads to a mostly compliant local press corp. I well remember how he was able to distract the media in the wake of the SB loss to the Pats by repeatedly focusing its attention on the “pass v. run” issue on the last pick–which was at least debatable–instead of “THAT pass vs. any other pass” issue–which was much less so. Masterfully done.

    Here, he’s just doing what he always does–trying to talk himself and others into an “almost there” narrative that favors no significant changes. But that is not the only narrative available–there are other, less favorable narratives in plain sight. We’ll see whether Jody Allen buys his narrative of choice…or not.

  69. Rob Staton


    • Rob Staton

      This means the meetings are likely today. Silver has sources in Seattle, I suspect JS

      • Scot04

        The Wilson tweet, then this from Silver.
        The fact the Wilson tweet was a precursor to the Silver tweet has me nervous.
        Maybe Jody talked with RW before his tweet.
        Either way I hope the we know what’s going on before the weekend. Tired of waiting.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I thought it would take a couple of weeks for the pieces to fall into place behind the scenes. I’m be happy to be wrong about that regardless of how it turns out because we need to know now.

      • Rob Staton

        I thought the meeting would happen yesterday or Monday but there was plenty of chatter out there saying middle of the week.

        What we know is Seattle hired a search firm recently. What we don’t know is whether that was due diligence or a potential precursor to change.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          I am so ready to find out, either way.

      • GaiusMarius

        Yes, nothing has changed. The writing has been on the wall for awhile now.

        The decision (to retain, fire or make a decision with Wilson as a tiebreaker) should already be made.

        There is no value in waiting.

    • cha

      I’m scared PC will be retained and then do his “there’s no value in talking about it because there’s no story” thing and leave everyone twisting in the wind for 2 months like he did with Russ.

      • cha

        I know we’ll know sooner than that. It’s just another PC press game I’d really rather not endure.

      • Rob Staton

        Let’s just rip the band aid off and get on with it

    • Seahawkwalt

      If Pete stays the JS does too. Pete needs a puppet GM which is what he has.

      • Rob Staton

        I wouldn’t be 100% sure on that

        JS — IMO – is open to a rebuild. Carroll is not. They might not see eye to eye and one might win out, or both could be gone.

        Anything’s on the table here I think.

        • Scot04

          I thought it was interesting that it said we should find out about PC & JS, but RW wasn’t included in tweet.

          • Rob Staton

            Well, in fairness, you’re not going to fire Wilson. Or resolve his situation.

            But you can push for change with your HC/GM that they can agree to or not, you can fire them, you can tell them ‘great job on 7-10 fellas’.

            So I wouldn’t expect RW to be mentioned here.

            • Scot04


  70. Yoonhawk

    From Mike Silver:

    “We should have some clarity on the Seahawks, Pete Carroll and John Schneider soon… hopefully today.”

  71. Donald_Duck

    This is the only question that remains for this “dog ate my homework” press conference: Is the teacher so stupid as to buy it?

    • Rob Staton


    • Big Mike

      Nice analogy D_D. 🙂

  72. Gaux Hawks

    Any chatter coming from Saints/Sean Payton’s camp?

    …breaking out my nano-bubbles and prayer beads.

    • GoHawks5151

      This is equally one to watch. If he pops free does that change anything for Seattle I wonder?

    • cha

      I’m shocked that Dennis Allen isn’t getting any interviews.

      Reported interviews, anyway.

  73. Mr. Drucker in hooterville

    Rob, With time lapsing, what is the date that it becomes ‘too late’ for Seattle to make a change in your view.

    • Rob Staton

      When the playoffs are over, every other team has hired their coach and the best candidates aren’t available.

      There’s plenty of time yet.

  74. Denver Hawker

    I keep getting a strong sense from a lot of fans and other Hawks sites that while Pete and JS have made mistakes, we should still count our blessings that we still have them. Finishing in the bottom 10 without an R1 pick is just “bad luck”.

    It’s pathetic how low some of our fanbase thinks of themselves sometimes. As if unworthy of an opportunity for better. You know, there are starving fans in NY who’d take our guys in a heartbeat so we should be grateful they stick around. Makes me really miss Paul Allen even more. There is no one left (that we know) to demand excellence.

    • TheOtherSeatte

      The programming of Seattle sports fans to accept mediocrity starts at a young age.

      • Denver Hawker

        Sadly true.

        I’ll also say on the flip side, Boston fans are nearly insufferable with their despair despite how much they win.

    • Rob4q

      What’s the word from the Denver media on what’s going to happen with the Bronco’s? Seems they also have an ownership in flux there?

      • Denver Hawker

        It’s been in flux for a few years now, but a legal path is finally cleared to sell. An investment bank was hired a little while back to lead the process and many speculate a new ownership has already been slotted with terms nearly negotiated. Will take a while to paper it and plan the PR.

        • TomLPDX

          I read (from Florio I think) that two of the groups bidding on the Broncos include Elway and Manning. Any idea about who might buy them?

          • Denver Hawker

            There’s been a couple names circulated, but it’s a narrow list of Colorado billionaires. Could be someone outside the state, but I don’t think the NFL wants remote owners. They also don’t seem to care for large consortiums. Elway and Manning would be very minority owners.

    • Jordan E

      This is a funny comment. I think to achieve excellence its important to not to be swayed by your emotions and to think logically even when things are in turmoil. I for one and am not against firing Pete, but if you do fire him you need to really consider and think about who you are going to replace him with. The fact some people on here think Brian Flores is an upgrade over Pete and that it is sad we haven’t gotten a replacement yet is funny.

      I can be sold that Sean Payton is potentially an upgrade over Pete, but I can also see him as producing a very similar result to Pete. Its not like BB or McVay grow on trees. Many fans who want PC/JS heads are not proposing a feasible situation moving forward. Let’s not forget the Hawks sucked before PC and their best was with Holmgren who never won a SB. That is emotion- that is fact.

      • Jordan E

        *Isn’t emotion lol. That is fact.

        • Denver Hawker

          I can respect some fans operate with fear of the uncertain future. I don’t think any coach gets fired with someone else already lined up. There has to be a process that can’t start until the old coach is gone.

          My broader point is there doesn’t appear to be anyone holding Pete accountable for recent performance. This team wasn’t close to a SB last year despite its record against bad teams and was exposed for what it is this year and giving away 2 R1 picks to boot. It’s not a good trend and there is little reason provided to believe next season will be any different.

          I don’t believe Pete would parade as confidently as he has if Paul Allen was still alive. I believe he and JS would be more concerned about their jobs.

          It might be unfair for me to expect Seattle fans to be less tolerant than they are, but this has been one of the best franchises in all sports for the last 20 years under Allen. I think that level of excellence should be the expected norm of the fans, not an exception.

      • Rob Staton

        I for one and am not against firing Pete, but if you do fire him you need to really consider and think about who you are going to replace him with.

        Aren’t you just stating the obvious? Is anyone seriously suggesting they fire Pete and appoint any old coach? Of course not.

        The fact some people on here think Brian Flores is an upgrade over Pete and that it is sad we haven’t gotten a replacement yet is funny.

        Why is it funny to rate Brian Flores? He inherited a team that everyone was projecting was ‘tanking for Tua’. There was legit expectations they would win 0-2 games. He inherited an expansion franchise. They went 5-11, 10-6 and 9-8. They have back-to-back winning seasons despite having a horrendous O-line and no answer at QB. He didn’t want Tua, they took him anyway and he’s found a way to win. He’s won four games in a row against Belichick.

        By the way, his 15 wins in his first two years in Miami is more than the 14 wins Carroll had in his first two years in Seattle.

        To me Flores feels like a terrific coach who could have a lot of success in a better situation.

        Many fans who want PC/JS heads are not proposing a feasible situation moving forward.

        Go on then, give us some examples of fans acting in this way. Most fans I see are very realistic and feasible. They speak of Doug Pederson, Nathaniel Hackett, Flores, Dan Quinn. I made a plan listing names and said they should aim high for Payton but provided alternatives. You don’t get to write off ‘many fans’ suggestions’ as unfeasible. Explain what is unfeasible.

        Let’s not forget the Hawks sucked before PC and their best was with Holmgren who never won a SB.

        They didn’t suck before PC. Holmgren took them to a Super Bowl four years before he was appointed. They had five straight winning seasons between 2003-07 and won the NFC West four years in a row. They won four playoff games in three years between 2005-07, were robbed of a Championship and could’ve easily been in the NFC Championship game in 2006.

        Even if that were true that they sucked (even though they didn’t), Carroll doesn’t get to be the coach forever based on what the Seahawks were before he arrived.

        Really, you’re the one not providing any feasible arguments here.

      • GaiusMarius

        Yet I see your post as being one very much swayed by emotion.

        And the emotion is FEAR. Fear of the unknown, so let’s trot out the same trench warfare rather than consider those new “barrels” that a few crazies are talking about. 🙂

        “…the Hawks sucked before PC…”

        There were several good Holmgren years in there (2005-2007 was especially fun). I do not presume that we will awful or great, it depends on who the replacements are. But I do believe we should demand more. More than a playoff appearance and quick exit as our ceiling, especially with a quarterback still setting various records.

        Great QB’s are less common than great coaches and we have one of those in Wilson. That is something that no Seahawks coach had upon arrival.

      • Matt

        5 years Jordan…5 years of managed decline. Feel free to disagree, but the nonsense about “emotions” is unwarranted because many of us have been banging this drum for years.

        Only one side is doing the “hey the last two games looked great! Let’s run it back.” That would be an emotional response.

        • Rob Staton

          100% right Matt.

          Detailed, long-lasting debate about the team is not ’emotional’.

          Just shouting that everyone’s suggestions are unfeasible and making lots of inaccurate claims = emotional.

          • Matt

            Yep. And I especially hate the “good luck finding anybody better!”

            So what? Pete coaches until he retires or dies? Is that his this works now?

            Will the same courtesy be extended to RW? Oh no? Weird.

          • Jordan E

            If this is a debate then its worth hearing the other side as well. Love the work you do Rob but I feel alot of the comments often become an echo chamber for whatever you say.

            I know its impossible to get this information, but id like to know who the Hawks were in fact considering, how Russ really feels about the team and who primarily selects players between PC/JS. And come on. Seahawks were good before? This whole argument is complaining that were not winning SBs. We did not win one in like 30 years before Pete. The whole standard of expectation for the Seahawks is due to the precedent PC/LOB/BeastMode had on the seahawks.

            I think tempers needed to be toned down and people need to think for alternatives. Again, im okay with moving on from PC but lets not sit here and pretend hes a terrible coach. Hes def gotten worse few years but you could do a lot worse. I personally have a lot of doubts for the future of the team. I dont see us making a SB even with a proper reload. Rather we may need to rebuild.

            Of the coaches mentioned, I do hold Sean Payton at the top of that list. Just not too certain that that is a real possibility. If Russ is forcing the hand and will not play under Pete then I am for cutting Pete. RW is more important but again these are alot of assumptions that we do not know the answer for

            • Rob Staton

              If this is a debate then its worth hearing the other side as well.

              Let’s get one thing straight. Me challenging your views is very different to you not being able to voice them. Your side is being heard and is being challenged.

              Love the work you do Rob but I feel alot of the comments often become an echo chamber for whatever you say.

              You don’t get to accuse this place of being an echo chamber because someone challenged what you said. That’s called undermining to cover up for a lack of a coherent argument. We don’t do that here.

              And come on. Seahawks were good before? This whole argument is complaining that were not winning SBs. We did not win one in like 30 years before Pete.

              You are moving the goalposts. You literally said the Seahawks ‘sucked’ before Pete Carroll. I pointed out why they didn’t ‘suck’. Now you are changing it to ‘you all complain about not winning Super Bowls’.

              If you want to know why your views are being challenged, this is a great example.

              I think tempers needed to be toned down and people need to think for alternatives.

              Why do ‘tempers need to be toned down’? If someone suggests Doug Pederson as a replacement candidate, are they incapable of doing that respectfully or without becoming unhinged?

              This is the second time you’ve tried to replace an argument with a slur. You’re implying that people are overly emotional when they suggest alternatives, when in reality it’s a fairly standard debate.

              Don’t do this.

              Again, im okay with moving on from PC but lets not sit here and pretend hes a terrible coach.

              Nobody has called Pete Carroll ‘a terrible coach’. Now you’re on to strawman arguments.

              You need to provide more convincing arguments than this. I suspect most people will disagree with your points — not because this is an echo chamber but simply because they are poorly thought out.

    • cha

      What I find very interesting in this all is the Pro Pete Carroll and Pro Russell Wilson sections of the fanbase seem to be split along their definition of success.

      Russell Wilson wants to contend if not win Super Bowls. It’s understood that annual appearances in the SB are rare, but deep playoff runs should annually be the expectation. A very high seed with a well-rounded team should always be the goal.

      If you’re not consistently building your roster and coaching staff by reaching that high, you’re not going to get very far with Russell Wilson or the fans that agree with that mindset.

      Pete Carroll has had to backtrack quite a bit in recent years to try to convince people that the team has been successful.

      That a division championship and being bounced in the first round at home by John Wolford is a successful season. That having the worst defense in the NFL for notable stretches of games is something that can be overcome with belief and using repetitive determination language.

      That the memories of a terrible past and the fear an uncertain future is enough to stay the course of above-average-ocrity.

      So if you just stay the course with the same coaches and backfill the roster with expensive flotsam, you can call that a successful season and toast to avoiding a 2-14 disaster.

      • Big Mike

        “Pete Carroll has had to backtrack quite a bit in recent years to try to convince people that the team has been successful”.

        Bingo. He’s a snake oil salesman the last several years. Reminds me of when Ruskell tried to sell us on the loss of Hutchinson not being that bad. We all know how long he lasted after that.

    • BA

      It’s bizarre, our fanbase has an impostor syndrome on par with some of the most maligned fanbases in the league (Jags, Lions, etc), despite having achieved far more success over the last decade or two than any of them. When you combine that with spineless local media and rudderless ownership, it creates the perfect storm for Pete to openly flaunt his complete lack of accountability.

  75. Miami Hawk

    Flores please 🙌

    • Big Mike

      As long as he hires an excellent, creative OC

    • Matt

      Yep. Pete has excelled at managing decline and selling it as “we are on the precipice.”

      He has unfortunately morphed into a politician at this point – you kinda just look at him and go, “what planet are you living on?”

      • Matt

        Meant to respond to the comment above

      • BA

        The politician comment is spot on. Plus Pete’s the perfect age to have a nice cynical career as a state representative.

  76. Rob Staton

    Mike Silver says Raiders owner Mark Davis had/has a Russell Wilson fixation:

    • Big Mike

      Guessing RW wouldn’t agree to a trade to LV without knowing what the coaching situation is ultimately going to be.

      • Rob Staton


        It’s interesting that the owner feels that way though.

        • Big Mike

          Indeed and getting Carr back would not be a bad thing especially if he came with draft picks. He’s imo not on par with Russ, but he’s not far behind.

          • TomLPDX

            Carr gets a bad rap from people but as a tier2 QB I think he is fine. Feel the same way about Jimmy G. He is better than people give him credit for. Not tier1 but still a good QB.

    • cha

      I was intrigued by their discussion about Miami. Silver pushed back on the idea that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua.

      • Rob Staton

        Yup. I always thought Flores was simply non-plussed over Tua but he said he wanted him.

        The talk ahead of the draft was everyone in Miami was desperate for Burrow but couldn’t trade up.

  77. Mr. Drucker in hooterville

    “I can’t answer that. I don’t have a solution.” –Pete Carroll

  78. Ryan Purcell

    I wonder how the team as a whole will respond if Wilson does indeed force Carrol and Schneider out. I could see that getting messy. And folks complain that Carrol has too much power!

    • Rob Staton

      You’re assuming they’ll see it as Wilson ‘forcing them out’ versus ownership simply making a decision after a losing season

      • Matthew

        You think players aren’t aware of what’s going on? If we know Wilson is doing pushing for change, they do too. If it happens to be PC/JS getting fired, they’ll know. It likely won’t be popular with many of them based on how PC had them giving 100% for “meaningless” games. Wilson could play dumb, but players can see through bull**t. It’s something that could be a problem…

        • Rob Staton

          You think players aren’t aware of what’s going on?

          I didn’t say that.

          Of course they’re well aware of Wilson’s dissatisfaction.

          But you’re assuming Jody Allen would only fire Carroll because of Wilson. That’s not true. She might believe change is 100% needed, as many of us do. That would be her call. It wouldn’t be Wilson ‘forcing them out’.

          It likely won’t be popular with many of them based on how PC had them giving 100% for “meaningless” games.

          Too much has been made of this. The Seahawks were bloody awful two weeks ago against the Bears. Did they not like Carroll that week?

          They hammered the Lions and beat an Arizona team that ended the year 1-4. We’re going to hold this up as players fighting their arses off for Carroll? Maybe it was more their personal pride and crappy opponents?

          Wilson could play dumb, but players can see through bull**t.

          Again, you’re assuming that them going is purely down to Wilson. As if ownership are not capable of independent thought.

          • Matthew

            She may independently make that decision, but it’s too late for it not to appear like it was a choice between RW and PCJS, instigated by Wilson. The point isn’t the specific games, it’s that he hasn’t seemed to have lost the locker room in anyway, and how Wilson is going about this is starting to feel disingenuous. He has to come out and put it all on the line, or stop this back channel sniping.

            • Rob Staton

              I think you’re making too much of this.

              The way the team would react. The way they would look at Wilson.

              You say he hasn’t lost the locker room. That’s just football rhetoric. The player playing his arse off the most, I’d argue, on Sunday was Russell Wilson. Was he doing that for Carroll? Was his reaction to the rushing touchdown a sign of him ‘playing for Carroll’? Or were they playing two favourable opponents and playing with personal pride?

              And I’ll say again — did Carroll lose the locker room for one week vs Chicago then win it back against Detroit? It’s impossible to read who or what a group of 53 men are thinking, why they play as they do and what their preferences are.

              • Rob Staton

                I’ll also say this.

                I don’t think Jody Allen consults Wilson. Maybe doesn’t even speak to him.

                And if the players know that, not sure they’ll pin anything on him.

              • Matthew

                Agreed it is impossible to know, could go back and forth indefinitely, BUT, that unknown is why I think brushing off a QB forcing a HC and GM out creating some weird dynamics has to be considered a possibility.

                • Rob Staton

                  I’ll concede it could do.

                  But I’m equally sure that most players won’t give a toss. Especially if the next coach comes in, is proven and gets results.

                  • Matthew

                    I think that’s it. Could be an issue temporarily, winning would erase it quickly. Appreciate the responses!

  79. Rob Staton

    Rich Eisen show had a NY Post journalist on today and he said the Giants should trade for RW:

    • Jordan


      Yes, NYG should. But man, 1st round picks don’t move the needle this year to the extent that they would in many other drafts. There’d have to be player(s) sweeteners – names like Thomas, Lawrence, Ojulari, Bradburry.

      I’d seriously listen to Vegas if they were talking Carr+ though.

      • Peter

        A later round pick to the raiders plus carr? I’m not sure how Seattle gets to rebuilding with that.

        Carr only has one more year in his contract. Almost a rental for a good price.

        I’m a little low on “trader john,” but i’d rather see him with a top ten pick for an actual talent or drop down and get two pieces for one.

    • Rob Staton

      Ian Rapoport was also on the Rich Eisen show, discussing Seattle from 29:30:

      “Nobody knows what’s going to happen in Seattle”

      Flat out said he had no idea what will happen and that he’s having a hard time projecting Seattle’s situation with PC, JS, RW.

      • Rob Staton

        Let me also add — this chimes 100% with Carroll’s self-preservation attempt in his press conference.

        If he has no idea what’s going on, it’s not surprising that he would talk the way he did.

        • cha

          That desperate story about ‘turning Darrell Taylor around through coaching’ was pretty obvious. It was the last question, Art Thiel asked if he’d gotten contacted by other teams to come in and coach. Carroll’s answer answer was basically ‘I’m not going to talk about that, but I want to talk about this’ and delivered his speech and then walked off.

          That story couldn’t have been wedged into the press conf more if he’d brought a crowbar to the podium with him.

          • Rob Staton

            It was blatant and slightly pitiful

            • cha

              Clearly staged and Pete had the story all warmed up ready to go, just didn’t get the right question to unleash it. Surprised he didn’t slip the question to a friend in the press pool so he could tee off on it.

              • Big Mike

                In that case I’ll assume his bobo Mike Salk wasn’t in attendance.

        • bmseattle

          “Let me also add — this chimes 100% with Carroll’s self-preservation attempt in his press conference.
          If he has no idea what’s going on, it’s not surprising that he would talk the way he did.”

          This is a great point.
          If he was truly confident, we would have seen “smirking Pete”, and he wouldn’t have been acting so defensive.

          and if it’s true that he has no clue, that gives me more hope that Jodie is seriously considering a change.

          • Rob Staton

            Well, we know she hired a search firm (per Lombardi)

            Which implies she was considering something

      • jed

        Jody Allen and her confidants must be out of the usual NFL rumor circuit, which is probably awesome for them, but leaves us fans in the dark.

        Jeremy Fowler threw out another potential possibility – John taking over personnel decisions and Pete stays. He also says Pete’s not ready to retire, which I think was pretty clear from that last press conference. I also don’t think that minor shift would change Russ’ mind.

        • Rob Staton

          The thing is — I’m not doubting Jeremy Fowler has spoken to some serious dudes in the NFL

          But nobody knows what’s going on. The top journalists are saying that.

          So Fowler pitching this, to me, feels like thinking out loud from someone not working in Seattle, or someone working in Seattle who wants to keep a job.

          • jed

            Yeah, Jody & her top people are definitely not talking to the NFL journalists. Lombardi’s statement gives me the most hope there will be a change.

            Nice little thread between you, Danny, and Jeff on this too. I agree with you and Jeff that it does feel like a strategic leak from the Personnel Department.

    • BA

      I wonder about the viability of the Giants. They’re already a complete mess and would be giving up their first rounders to get Russ. Is that even a smart move for him at that point? If we’re evaluating options purely based on the quality of the roster and organization surrounding Russ, there are plenty of better options (Browns, Saints, even Broncos, or – gasp- Steelers).

      • Rob Staton

        A few things to consider…

        — Being the main sports star in New York would have appeal

        — They might appoint an attractive offensive minded Head Coach

        — He would only cost the Giants $19m this year and $22m next, giving them cap flexibility

        — They’ve already added weapons (big free agent WR and first round WR last year) and they recently drafted a franchise left tackle. Wilson might retain some faith in Saquon Barkley for a running game too.

        — They have some defensive pieces

        The problem for the Giants is they’re $19m over the cap. They can easily get well into the black by cutting and trading some players but they would need replacing. Yet they also have some pieces, so they could target young players in the draft, especially if they trade away some higher earners for mid or later round picks.

        They need to add veteran O-liners. It’s do-able, just needs work.

        So I don’t think it’s an unappealing situation if done properly. And they are the team with the draft stock to make a realistic offer.

      • Peter

        Let’s not and say we never did with the Steelers. Poor old broken down Russ was not insignificantly better than Ben. Who has veen almost always a mess. They have a oline. They have some great names on defense. And offensive weapons, like Seattle just more certainty at RB.

        If he went to the north please be the browns so I can make them my new team.

      • DT

        I would question Russ for choosing the giants. That would seemingly be about brand and not about winning.

        There is no indication the Giants can get their coaching search right. Last 4 coaches have lasted less than 2 years each, and some of the names being discussed now have likely been available to them.
        Why will this coaching search end any differently?
        Recent talent aside, they also now need a a GM. Can they get that right?
        As pointed out on this site with their free medium drink promo, they are completely out of touch with their fan base.

        And for Russ, he benefits from the soft media in Seattle as much as Pete.
        The minute Russ takes a bad sack trying to run out the back that potentially costs them a game (and one where their all-pro left tackle does his job and gets visibility frustrated at the result), the NY media will pounce.

        Is that really the engagement Russ wants?

        • Rob Staton

          That’s a bit of a one sided view though.

          If he works in NYG he would also be a hero. They are desperate for someone to lead them out of the mire. Plus, we don’t know who their coach will be. If it’s a strong offensive mind, or a coach with a plan and a good OC, it would still appeal.

          We have to wait and see what they do. But he gets to see what the decision is before making a call.

  80. Martinb

    I’m bracing for the worst case scenario where Jodi decides to run everyone back and just as depressing allow the same power structure to exist. We think Pete is insufferable now with his power and control? IF everything stays the same, I can see myself checked out from this season even more then I was this past season. This coaching staff and management has sucked the excitement out of the team for me.

  81. Romeo A57

    I assume that the JA and PS meeting is going something like this:

    Jody ” What have you done the past few years to fix the glaring holes on both sides of the lines?”

    Pete ” We did nothing and we are all out of ideas”

  82. Jordan

    ctrl+F: Seahawks to jump to the tidbit from Jeremy Fowler on the Seahawks.

    Fowler positing/speculating that Pete could end up deferring all personnel decisions to Shcneider and his staff. Leave the final say on player acquisition to the people who have worked in that area for the bulk of their adult life – as it probably always should have been.

    • Rob Staton

      To me that feels like someone in Seattle making a point.

      “The move would embolden the personnel staff that sometimes feels handcuffed by coaches’ preferences.”

      • Jordan

        Yes it does.

        The Cowherd clip that you shared recently sounds like it could be from JS or someone acting in support of JS.

    • Denver Hawker

      Okay son, we’re taking the keys to the Corvette away. You can have them back when you can show us a little more responsibility around here.

      Joking aside, I’d read this just as much a defensive posture also to keep Schneider away from other GM openings.

  83. Paul

    A view of the landscape: Some perspective on Jody Allen

    Jody Allen chairs a trust established by the estate of Paul Allen. The trust’s estimated value is in excess of $20B (Allen’s worth at the time of death three years ago). In addition to the Seahawks and the Portland Trail Blazers, Paul Allen’s interests included Vulcan Inc, the Seattle Sounders (part owner), the Allen Institute for Brain Science, the Allen Institute for Cell Science, the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence, Apex Learning, Stratolaunch Systems, and Mojave Aerospace Ventures. Thus, the Seahawks are a small part of Jody Allen’s responsibilities.

    Jody Allen is not known to be a sports fan. Most likely, she views her involvement with the Seahawks through three lenses: Income, expenses, and reputation. (We know that reputation is important because of the speed with the she sacked the Blazer executive). It is unlikely that Allen follows the team on social and print media, blogs, sports radio, or sports television: She has neither the time nor the inclination. Presumably, though, there are trusted voices that have her ear.

    As astute as Rob’s assessment is, she won’t make any decisions about the leadership of the team based on such an in-depth analysis. Nor, frankly, do we want her to: both the coach and GM could easily talk their way around this when their audience is a sports neophyte. That being said, she will know flailing when she hears it.

    Most likely, any decision will come down to how Russell Wilson tells his side of the story—if he even gets to—and to whatever her trusted voices say. While management is not typically inclined to side with employees when they present an ultimatum—if it comes to that—this situation is unique because of who the employee is, because the coach is at the end of his career and because he is not putting his case well. (Of course, this last may change by the time of his end-of-season meeting with her.)

    I don’t mean to paint a bleak picture, but we should try to grasp Allen’s point of view, which is not that of an avid fan. Moreover, there is a case for retaining Carroll as coach with reduced involvement in player personnel. As Mike Dugar pointed, Carroll does the hard things well, especially building a team culture based on competition and unity. (See Duane Brown’s recent remarks.) Compared to other franchises, this is a strategic advantage that covers a lot of tactical flaws.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s said that she attends every Seahawks game

      And I think she’ll have her own views on this. They might not be the ones we want — but I think she’ll have them

    • GaiusMarius

      You do not need to be a big sports fan to understand data, trend analysis and other concerning declines in the Seahawk’s performance.

      Indeed, not being the biggest football fan might help you see things more clearly rather than through the frame of a Super Bowl victory fading into the past.

      • Paul

        I didn’t mean to imply that Allen won’t have her own views. But, her perspective is not ours.

    • Ptarmigan

      One set of numbers we can be sure that Allen pays attention to is franchise market value and rank, given that the team will be coming to market in the not-too-distant future. According to Forbes, the Seahawks are presently ranked #12 of 32 in market value at $3.5 billion. That number increased 14% over the last year – a better increase than many. The franchise showed an operating loss of $20.8 million last year, which was comparable to most (due to Covid revenue losses). It’s worth noting the hapless Giants are ranked #4; franchise value does not correlate to competitive strength.

  84. Big Mike

    A reminder, Pete and John both complained about not having picks in the upper portion of the first round yet unless my memory is off, most of their best draft picks were in rounds after the first one…….e.g. Bobby and DK in round 2, Russ in round 3, Kam in round 4 and Sherm in round 5. The loss of the ability to get excellent players in the rounds after the first has hurt them greatly.

    • TomLPDX

      KJ was also drafted in the 4th round. That dude needs to get more recognition. We took him for granted when he was playing.

      • Big Mike

        Good call

    • Jordan


      Lockett, Frank, Shaquille, Carson, Dickson

      • Big Mike

        And again

    • Paul

      They can draft LBs regardless of round. They were good at later round CBs until other teams started looking for tall, long players.

  85. Rob Staton

    Jake Heaps on his show today:

    “I’m getting a lot of people hitting me up from around the league. I don’t know what this means but there’s a lot of chatter going on. I’m curious to know what’s going on.”

  86. Matthew


    “ My understanding is the usual end-of-season meeting between Pete Carroll and Jody Allen didn’t happen today and hasn’t happened yet. There’s nothing to read into that it hasn’t happened yet other than that there was speculation it might happen today. ….”

    • Rob Staton

      Ian Rapoport:

      “Nobody knows what’s going to happen in Seattle”

  87. Robbie

    Anyone else having the feeling like this is the calm before the storm? Something in my gut says it’s about to get spicy up in Seattle! Something big is brewing.

  88. GaiusMarius

    I’m not sure there is any advantage to drawing things out.

    I also realize that Allen is on her own clock.

    “Nobody knows” is the latest that we have…

  89. George


    I’m sure everything I’m about to say has probably been covered at some point above, but this is the one place I’m comfortable unloading the pieces to this impossible Seahawks puzzle. I understand your points on change, and potentially moving on from both PC/JS. This season, especially the first half, was a disaster. A lot of what we have seen in the past – Boom/bust on offense, third down conversions, yards allowed on defense, predictiability etc etc. I get it – this is all justified. We’ve read this book before. However, I think Pete Carroll deserves one more run, and the main reason is how close this roster is (yes, I’m serious) and the resources available this offseason.

    I agree with you, I think the Jamal Adams trade was a mistake. The defense can function just as well without him. However, I don’t think he is a crutch. Sure, I’d love to have the 10th pick, but having him healthy I think can be a positive with the right supporting cast. I also agree with Carroll when he says Russell functions with a better run game, and they need to improve the pass rush. This is when they are at their best, and how can we disagree with that? When Dunlap came on in the second half, the defense improved. When Penny got rolling, the offense improved. Carroll is right – it is pretty simple. If Penny (and Wilson) has a healthy offseason, I’m excited for this offense – he really did impress that much. Why are we thinking an offensive minded coach is going to transform this offense into more than what we’ve seen in recent weeks? The run game sucked, when it thrived, they scored 89 points in two games. I just think a lot of fans think ‘oh if the Seahawks sign Kellen Moore the offense is going to be transformed’. Look what happened to Matt Nagy-remember how hot his name was before the Bears signed him? I just think this is false optimism after a down Seahawks season – that change is going to result in instant success. That is far from the truth. Look what Adrian Peterson said – he’s never been involved with a more impressive organization, all the way to the cafeteria. Why are fans under estimating the culture that PC has established in Seattle? As I said, I don’t think this team is that far off.

    Also, what happens to this defense if PC is fired? I know they gave up a boat load of yards, they also finished tenth in scoring against the toughest division in football. They need help at corner, and they need an improved pass rush. That’s obvious. But his system, with the right pieces, can thrive. What if they sign Chandler Jones? Restructure Bobby’s deal (potentially cut) need be. Draft a corner before the 3rd round surprisingly. Are you still not confident with this defense under Carroll? Sign Brandon Scherff and move Lewis to center. Are we still doubting this offense moving forward? I know these are easier said than done, but with the right moves this offseason, why are throwing in the towel on a coach with one losing season in the last 10 years? As Hawk Blogger made noted, Brees/Payton had two sub .500 seasons. The Seahawks need IOL, a pass rusher, and a corner. It’s doable with the resources they have this offseason. Mike Holmgren got a final hoorah, Pete deserves that and more. Not a boot out the door, without a proper send off. He’s earned the right to make the moves this offseason with the cap space they have to make one more run. Go Hawks

    • STTBM

      REALLY, Bro?! Are you Pete Carroll in real life?!

    • Rob Staton

      However, I think Pete Carroll deserves one more run, and the main reason is how close this roster is (yes, I’m serious) and the resources available this offseason.

      I simply don’t agree that this roster is ‘close’. They can turn it around quickly, I believe any team can do that, especially with a franchise QB on board already. But is this Seahawks team close? No — and they haven’t been for too long.

      Why are we thinking an offensive minded coach is going to transform this offense into more than what we’ve seen in recent weeks?

      Personally, I want to see a consistent offense. Not one that has dramatically fluctuating form. One that spends a season failing to properly feature its best targets. One that is awful on third down and too often very predictable. One that, once it gets into a slump mid-game, can adjust.

      We simply haven’t seen that. Yes, the running game coming on at the end of the season was fun to watch and had a dramatic impact in terms of upturn in performance. But we’re talking about a tiny sample size here. We’re also talking about it occurring in relatively meaningless games against the chaff of the league — Houston, Chicago, Detroit. Even Arizona are 1-4 in their last five games.

      For me it’s time to try and create an offense that is consistently good for the majority of the season, with off-days becoming rare events.

      I just think a lot of fans think ‘oh if the Seahawks sign Kellen Moore the offense is going to be transformed’.

      Well, I’ve voiced serious concerns about Moore as a Head Coach. So I haven’t been arguing that. I’ve pitched going after Payton ambitiously and have offered Doug Pederson as an alternative. Both have won Super Bowls.

      Look what happened to Matt Nagy-remember how hot his name was before the Bears signed him?

      You could just as easily argue, ‘remember Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur — remember their names before they were signed’.

      We can’t cherry pick. And let’s not forget that Nagy went 12-4 in year one. Who knows where Nagy and the Bears would be now if they’d used their Mitchell Trubisky pick on a proper QB like Mahomes or Watson?

      I just think this is false optimism after a down Seahawks season – that change is going to result in instant success.

      Is it not false optimism to think a run of two wins at the end of the season is any kind of indication of this team being on the right track, after it has been regressing for years?

      They literally stunk the place out against the Bears in week 16.

      Look what Adrian Peterson said – he’s never been involved with a more impressive organization, all the way to the cafeteria. Why are fans under estimating the culture that PC has established in Seattle?

      Adrian Peterson has played for the likes of Detroit, Washington, Arizona and Minnesota. To be fair, the competition isn’t great.

      I’ve been over the culture point before. Here’s what I wrote last week:

      I’m not even sure the ‘culture’ argument is that strong, given it’s difficult to define how you’d describe ‘culture’ within a football team.

      I think Carroll has tremendous strengths as a leader of men. I think his willingness to be open-minded and let individuals grow and develop is admirable. He’s taken risks during his Seahawks career that few other coaches would’ve done — and been rewarded emphatically for his boldness.

      Yet we’ve also seen one play destroy a potential dynasty, amid a flurry of ridiculous locker-room conspiracy theories surrounding Carroll’s preference on who wins a Super Bowl MVP award. Players rushed to journalists to call the team ‘the Titanic’. Who could forget Richard Sherman ranting and raving at team mates and coaches on the sideline during an actual game — wildly out of control. We hear stories of team mates punching each other before the biggest game in franchise history. The relationship between key members of the defense and the franchise quarterback seemed to be all over the place, based on petty ‘you’re treating him differently’ arguments.

      Do I need to go on?

      It’s been a circus on multiple occasions.

      Therefore, I think the ‘culture’ has been a mixed bag. There have been pro’s and con’s. The environment that tolerates Marshawn Lynch so he can become a living legend is also the environment that saw so much nonsense engulf the team and prevent it from maxing out one of the greatest roster’s in NFL history.

      Also, what happens to this defense if PC is fired? I know they gave up a boat load of yards, they also finished tenth in scoring against the toughest division in football.

      Are we seriously going to worry about this defense?

      They couldn’t get off the field. The pass rush hasn’t been good enough for three straight seasons, despite the Seahawks consistently talking about the need to fix it (as they are again this off-season).

      Per DVOA — they have the 21st ranked defense in the NFL. I’m not going to cry over a bottom third unit in the league.

      Their pressure percentage is 7th worst in the NFL, they have the fourth worst sack percentage, they’re 16th against the run, they had the 8th fewest turnovers.

      Are we seriously worried about losing this record? I’m not.

      Further to that, this staff had people like Dunlap and Mayowa dropping into coverage. It took until the end of the season to let Dunlap pin his ears back. Why on earth was he in coverage? And why have the Seahawks started the last two seasons with the defense putting up historically bad numbers?

      What if they sign Chandler Jones?

      What gives you any confidence that they will? Two years ago they said fixing the pass rush was a major priority. They said retaining Clowney was a priority. They couldn’t convince JC to come back and replaced him with Benson Mayowa.

      They have consistently shown a total unwillingness to go and make a splash signing in free agency.

      I know these are easier said than done, but with the right moves this offseason, why are throwing in the towel on a coach with one losing season in the last 10 years?

      One of the reasons is because the kind of plan you are pitching is almost certainly not going to happen under the leadership of Carroll, based on 12 years of evidence.

      Do you honestly think he’s going to go out and sign Jones & Scherff? And draft a corner before round three?

      There’s nothing to even hint at this being a possibility.

      As Hawk Blogger made noted, Brees/Payton had two sub .500 seasons.

      They also averaged 12-wins a season in their final four years together and when they had their losing seasons, Payton didn’t do a press conference where he tried to claim everything was just peachy. He acknowledged they had issues and worked to fix them.

      They had a soft three-year rebuild between 2014-16 and created one of the best teams in the NFL. Seattle started their soft rebuild four years ago and unlike Payton’s Saints, they aren’t winning 13-games and looking like a contender. Their soft rebuild has created a 7-10 team that looks a long way off being a contender.

      Mike Holmgren got a final hoorah, Pete deserves that and more.

      To me, this was Pete’s final hoorah. Some of us have been voicing serious concerns dating back to the 2019 pre-season.

      And Holmgren went 10-6 in 2007 and won a playoff game. Then it was announced he was out before the 2008 season started. He didn’t get a last hoorah. His 4-12 season came during his ‘last hoorah’. If we’re comparing the two, are we really waiting for Carroll to have the same experience?

      He’s earned the right to make the moves this offseason with the cap space they have to make one more run.

      Not for me he hasn’t. He has overseen a franchise that has blown $100m in two off-seasons in free agency, squandered numerous high draft picks, completed a completely ridiculous trade for Jamal Adams and doubled down on it, the performance on the field has regressed, issues on both sides of the ball linger and are never solved.

      He refuses to cede control and create a top-notch staff, preferring instead to stick with his old pals act.

      There is no justification for carrying on as usual. The evidence suggests he is the last man to trust with the resources they have.

      The only way Pete should be staying is if he’s willing to go to a place we know he isn’t willing to. One as a Saban-esque figurehead who gives the keys to a fantastic D-coordinator and O-coordinator to handle both units and let’s the GM worry about the roster.

      • Peter

        Thanks for this rebuttal. I was thinking if there was a viable way to tackle this into reasonable pieces. For me it’s time to move on for a few fairly simple reasons:

        (In no particular order)

        1. An absolute and complete waste of whiffed picks. It is one thing to say “pc knows more about football than I”ll ever know,” and they whiff on one draft that is one thing. Whiff on two drafts, not great. But as you and others have noted the names of available talent at or near the Hawks picks over five drafts just passed by. It’s honestly embarassing.

        2. Culture. I have seen zero evidence that FA’s are willing to come here or resign here.certainly not players about journeymen and JAGS. Players may or may not play hard for Pete. Brown, Clowney, etc, are trades. This team trades picks to get decent players to come here.

        3. The coaching staff. This is not the best coaching staff one could assemble. This is a coaching staff of yes men. I don’t need to argue this since the appointment of KNJ the defense has trended down near the bottom third of the league.

        4. Philosophy. This one may be the most important to me. To me in football i could care less about a coaches philosophy other than having them implement it. If you place a premium on running the ball to control the tempo great, do that then. However when you then do next to nothing to implement said identity that’s when your time starts to end. Apparently PC has final say in all things personel wise. Fine. Why are you not building the nastiest line you can? Why the oft injured RB’s? Why not a fullback or even more blocking TE’s?

        The reality is that the man in control of building the team in his own vision can not figure out how to build the team that way with no one stoping him from that task is why Pete needs to move on.

  90. Aaron

    Your move Jody, you hold all the cards.

    • Hawks4life

      I’ve got the growing feeling that Russell already has 1 foot out the door, regardless of what happens to the front office and coaching staff. My gut feeling as of now is that he demands a trade and we run it back with Pete and potentially John. I hope I’m wrong

      • Rowdy

        To me, everything he’s done since last year was an effort to get out without actually saying it publicly

  91. Ashish

    Is there a chance that Pete is not a coach in year 2022? or we should give up on that hope since it’s 3 days. has Jody Allen made up her mind? may another 4 days before we give up.

  92. Rowdy

    A different scenario that might be holding things up, is russ wants out regardless. His problem could be the market in Seattle is to small for his exposure and he wants a bigger national spotlight.theres been rumors for years that he wants to be in a bigger market. The decision on finding a coach for wilson would be mute. Then Judy would have to make a decision on the best route for the hawks without wilson.

    • Hawks4life

      This scenario has always been odd to me, Russell seems like a guy who cares about winning championships more so than exposure and fame. But what do I know. If things were all peachy in Seattle we wouldn’t be having these conversations. I hope we get an answer soon

      • Rowdy

        That scenario was more of a example but was something that supposedly came from his camp. I do think his image is extremely important to him and he’ll go to great length to project the one he wants. The main narrative has been seattle needs to do things to keep him here, like getting a new coach. It is plausible that’s not even an option for him anymore but demanding it won’t be the image he wants people to see. If this is the case, we have a lot more questions that need answered and a lot more avenues that need to be looked into.

    • Rob Staton

      Russ doesn’t want out regardless

  93. 12th chuck

    why does the start of the off season feel like the seahawk’s are on defense, they just let a team that was 3rd and 18 get a 17-yard gain? 4th down now, playing an analytics team we are in seahawks territory. You have hope that the d can get one more stop, but in actuality you know it isn’t over yet

    • DarrellDownUnder

      Feels like the usual start of Free Agency when they wait to act until all the solid additions are gone and they are left with scrubs.

      • 12th chuck

        maybe doing the same with coaching now

  94. BobbyK

    Since most of us morons (only calling myself that, not any of you) think more about the Seahawks than we should, I’d like to offer this theory. Though some have suggested the same, I have a twist why:

    Pete continues as coach, as Holmgren did after he was stripped of GM duties.

    JS takes over in terms of final roster say (and trades, the draft, etc.)… the reason being is because JS got screwed over by PC in terms of the Herpes trade. And was forced to extend Herpes after it was clear that pile of *&^% wasn’t worth it.

    Truth be told, I think JS is capable. That’s my instinct. But he’s always had to abide by Pete. He’s only ever been a helper and a good helper, though not perfect as none of us would have been either.

    I remember an interview (that resonates now) from JS a long time ago about how he used to be so aggressive in Green Bay in terms of what he wanted the GM to do, but once he took over – he realized everything from the other side of the aisle and he became the one that wanted to put on the brakes to a degree.

    I have absolutely zero proof to what I’m saying, but I’d be willing to bet good money that JS had no interested in the Percy Harvin or Herpes trade. I don’t think most sane GMs would.

    We know JS has had some good runs when he’s allowed to (trading for Diggs and Dunlap in consecutive seasons), sending the FA note to Baldwin (though if he thought that much of him, not sure why they didn’t draft him) to “lucking” into Jake Curhan this past off-season. Lots of stuff.

    Personally, I think Pete is a well-above average coach. Still. But I have no faith in him “recruiting” crap FA “talent” like Mayowa, Finney, Olsen, Everett, Hollister, Hyder, etc. #neveragainplease

    I think we’re all jaded to a degree because we know what it’s like to feel a Super Bowl victory. It’s fun. But all the loser mentality people are cool with mediocrity with no realistic chances of even a conference championship game as long as the team can get into the playoffs (or close to the playoffs) even if there’s no realistic chance for advancement. You know?

    • bmseattle

      What I’ve heard about when Holmgren was stripped of GM duties, was that it was more of a symbolic move.
      Holmgren was still running the show, and Bob Ferguson basically answered to him.

      It’s difficult to imagine JS and Pete staying together, but just shifting ultimate authority from Pete to John. There’s too much history with those guys.

      I fear that if something like you suggest happens, that it will be a symbolic move, more than a real one. Pete will still have too much influence in roster building and decision making.
      I’m not sure he’s capable of truly stepping back.

      • STTBM

        No, they brought Timmay! Russell in as GM, and he most certainly did not do what Holmgren wanted. He brought in some great second-tuer defensive help his first year, took us to SB 40, then proceeded to get a fat head and undermine Holmgren. He succeeded, but failed utterly with his roster building attempt after and thus his career ended in Hubris and failure.

        • bmseattle

          No… Holmgren ceded GM duties after 2002.
          Ruskell didn’t become GM until 2005.
          There were a couple of seasons in between, clearly.

          Obviously I can’t know. There have just been rumors that Holmgren still had final call on personnel decisions the year following his dismissal as GM.

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t think there’s any chance Carroll cedes control.

      I think JS may want that — and JA may want that.

      But Carroll is a control freak. And if anyone tries to take power away from him, it’ll be an issue.

      • Big Mike

        100% agree, and his first press conference ever as the VP and HC in Seattle made that abundantly clear. There’s no evidence that’s changed.

  95. SeattleLifer

    It would seem that the Adam’s trade may be biting Pete in the rear. If the only tidbits we seem to be hearing so far might involve Schneider and the scouts taking full control of drafting/trades/free agency then it all points to Pete being the one who forced the Adam’s trade – his straw that broke the camels back? For all we know either John could be relaying this to the powers that be and/or Allen’s cohorts are taking a good look at who has had the last word on most of the poorer roster building decisions.

    It does’nt take a rocket scientist to see the decline/holes in our roster, even if you were to stretch things to look at it through a lense of Allen being a truly casual fan of football/the Hawks and just desiring to keep things even keeled for an upcoming sale – there’s still the fact of one poor playoff win in 5 years with some atrocious playoff losses, poor draft results, a defense that started out historically bad for a few years running, a hall of fame QB not to succinctly expressing his dissatisfactions, a first losing season in years, poor draft returns, questionable free agency expenditures, and the cherry on top of Jamal Adams the oft injured player who cost a king’s ransom in draft resources and salary, played nowhere near his incurred costs and eventually robbed us of a top 10 pick to boot.

    Whatever happens I could see either/both John and Pete talk themselves into being really happy with their 2nd round pick this upcoming draft, something along the lines of ‘well we got Jamal and this is such a crappy draft anyways and we usually drop back out of the first round to about this pick in the second so it’s all good.

  96. Cysco

    Buckle up kids! Today is gonna be a hell of a ride.

    Rob, you going to do a stream when news breaks regardless of what it is?

    • Rob Staton

      I have a few irons in the fire…

  97. cha

    Remember that single-joke twitter account in 2020 that was ‘Have the Seahawks signed Jadeveon Clowney?’ and every day just posted ‘No’

    We need one for ‘Have the Seahawks fired Pete Carroll?’

    • Denver Hawker

      Mount Rushmore of Seahawks Twitter for me, right next to Everyonelovesnudez

  98. Cysco

    Reading the tea leaves.
    Here’s what we know:

    -Pete hasn’t been fired
    -Pete and Jody are meeting today (we’ve been lead to believe)
    -Jody is reportedly unhappy with the direction the team is going
    -Reportedly no one in the team or around the league really knows what the outcome of that meeting is going to be
    -Pete is owed a huge buyout if he’s fired
    -Seattle has reportedly hired a search firm. For what, we don’t know
    -There’s lots of smoke from around the league, but no one seems to have a clue.
    -Russ has been pretty quiet this week

    Seems like we can read into this the following:
    The fact that we haven’t gotten any statement or report out of Seahawks ownership about Carroll is telling. They haven’t fired him, but if it were as clear as “we’re sticking with Pete”, they probably would have made a statement (you know Pete would have asked for one)

    So the truth probably lies in the middle somewhere. There is probably a world where ownership is OK keeping Pete, but that world would require a reduction in his power. That world could also require a new staff that is appointed by management. Today’s meeting between Jody and Pete would be to outline these requirements. If Pete is unwilling to accept the reduced role, they’ll negotiate an exit rather than just fire him. This is an approach that is very common in the corporate world.

    The rumored search firm would have been hired to either prepare for the hiring of a new coach if they can’t come to an agreement about Pete’s role going forward, or perhaps to start looking for coordinators that would be appointed by management.

    The silence from Russ’ camp this week would be because they’ve decided to let things play out this week.

    In all of this, I’m confident that John stays. There’s been a few reports this week that seemed to position Pete as the fall guy when it comes to poor personnel decision.There’s been really no smoke around John’s job security.

    Pure speculation of course, but I’m super confident this isn’t a binary decision of Pete is staying or going.

    • Hawk Finn

      Sorry, but can you or anyone else share a link regarding this search firm? I have seen a number of comments reference this but have yet to find an article online confirming it. Was it in a recent SDB post or comment that I missed?

      • Hawk Finn

        Never mind, found it

    • Ashish

      Cysco , nice summary

  99. Denver Hawker

    I spent some time reviewing the HC candidates this cycle. I considered systems, coaching trees, and player opinions.

    If Pete is replaced, the status of JS and Russ would play a big factor in who replaces him. There are a handful of retreads with HC experience. I fear most of them are really just great coordinators who struggled to lead their teams. I like Flores on paper, but it’s also being aired out that young players haven’t responded well to his tactics. Doesn’t make him a bad coach- just some risk.

    I’m currently most intrigued by Josh McDaniels. There are no doubt a few red flags (Tebow? The Indy debacle), but I like to think he’s matured and has shown offensive creativity with Mac Jones. He could bring along Jarod Mayo as a D-coord or opt for a Fangio type to run the D. I think Russ would welcome an offensive mind that won a few rings and coached the GOAT.

    Still diving in to them for fun, and curious who else (besides Sean Payton) you all have considered, and why.

  100. Yoonhawk

    Brock on Salk’s show this morning predicted that there would be some changes following today’s meeting.

    Salk of course stuck with his “everything’s fine” take on the situation and blamed any of the existing drama on Russ’s agent.

    • Rob Staton

      Brock is a saint

      • MychestisBeastmode


        He’s a great broadcaster, but damn, he’s got the smarts and charisma to be a great coach too if he chose it. He’s had to have been asked this before.

        Does anyone know about Brock stating his aspirations or lack thereof for coaching someday?

        • Rob Staton

          I don’t know but he is a sensational broadcaster so from a selfish point of view I hope he keeps going!

          • MychestisBeastmode


            He is destined for SNF/MNF and/or college GameDay. Raible is amazing, even if only on radio. It would be awesome to see Brock in some sort of NW niche role being THE GUY covering Seahawks and Huskies games. Pipe dream, I know, but damn it would be great to look forward to hearing him each week. Especially when compared to the jokers we usually get who are worth muting more than listening to.

    • BA

      I feel like the last time we heard “big changes were coming” one of the coordinators was replaced with a lazier and even more cynical hire. Hope that’s not the case here and we see real change, not just token reorganization and handwaving.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I’m mildly curious what happens to Salk when the news breaks. Will he poof! disappear into a cloud of smoke? Will he slowly dissolve into the floor while crying “I’m melting! I’m melting!”?

      Is there video of his show? Might be fun to watch a man self destruct in real time.

      • bmseattle

        My guess is he’ll adopt a sanctimonious tone and tell us all to “be careful what you wish for”.

      • GaiusMarius

        He should be fired along with most any other commentator with a “nothing to see here” view.

        They are employed for analysis and commentary, not for being sycophantic morons.

    • Aaron

      Salk is beyond insufferable now and from what Jim Moore said on 950 KJR from when he worked at 710 ESPN, Salk was kind of a prick, at least as a station manager.

    • cha

      Huard’s solution is to give JS the personnel control and PC be the team culture rah-rah guy.

      He’s bought into the end of season positive push but acknowledges change needs to be made.

      • DC

        Well my take on Brock is that he’s not the type of guy to just plainly say they need to fire Pete or John. He comes across as more political, not wanting to ruffle feathers.

        • bmseattle

          Yeah, Brock is very diplomatic and wouldn’t want to burn bridges.
          Plus, he’s just incredibly nice, and it is probably difficult to suggest that anyone should ever lose their job.

  101. Starhawk29

    Personally, I take most of the reports out of Miami with a tablespoon of salt. As Florio put it yesterday, ownership is trying to reshape the narrative to make their decision look better. Not saying Flores is the right fit here, but that his on field performance was excellent.

    I’m all in on McDaniels. People bring up his failures in Denver, but I see it as a learning opportunity. Many good coaches have been fired as HCs before and done better the second time around. However the bigger point, imo, is the context. Correct me if I’m wrong (you’re in Denver, I’m not), but it was his need for total control and QB instability that cost him his job right? Both can be remedied by hiring a good GM above him, and keeping Russ.

    • Starhawk29

      Meant as a reply to Denver Hawker above

    • Denver Hawker

      I generally am bias to humbled HCs. Guys who failed, learned from it and now better for it. Even a faction of fans here want to bring back McDaniels for the reasons you outlined.

      His failures were too much control. He was allowed to draft 3 picks inside the top 45, including Tebow. He also ran the team like BB, screaming at people in practice. Just never gathered any respect from players or any Bronco personnel.

      • Starhawk29

        As someone who likes to use the past as a predictive model for the future, I like looking at second chance guys. Assuming they actually learned from their mistakes, guys like this make a lot of sense. Even Bill OBrian can be considered, as he did an excellent job early until his political machinations and poor personnel decisions cost him. Hiring an inexperienced coach is a gamble. Sometimes you get McVay or Stefanski, other times you get guys who are just coordinators like Fangio or McAdoo. If we hire an inexperienced guy, it will be exciting, but also a bit nerve-wracking.

  102. Derek

    A name I haven’t seen mentioned a lot is Mike Zimmer. I think he has a brilliant defensive mind and is actually willing to adapt.. especially with how he disguises his coverages. I don’t know about head coach but as a DC, he’s the best out there IMHO.

    • Rob Staton

      Zimmer coaches like he’s deliberately setting out to make everyone’s lives miserable

    • MychestisBeastmode

      I agree! Just don’t let him pick the kicker.

  103. Aaron

    Gregg Bell on 950 KJR predicting a bringing of the band back together for another go, he used the words “status quo.” Pete stays, John stays, Russ stays, Bobby may take a pay cut or restructure but he stays, Duane Brown stays, they all pretty much stay.

    I think I might be sick!

    • Pran

      Pete needs some big names and yes men in the locker room to convey the message. Expect Bobby, Jamal, Duane etc to be back.

      • BobbyK

        Bring back Mayowa too. Pay the man!

    • Rob Staton

      Gregg is welcome to his prediction

      He’s not reporting it as fact

    • Ashish

      Why not, let’s the mediocrity continue. Who is going to ask the question to Pete.

    • Scot04

      Atleast he also said the need to address the O-line starting at Center.

  104. bmseattle

    Oh man, I joked about this in the comments recently, but it’s actually true… Pete compared this years team to the 2011-2012 team!

    From Corbin Smith’s article…

    “he (Pete) sees some parallels between this year’s team and the 2011 squad as the franchise enters a crucial offseason.

    “We were able to see the team that we can become over the course of this year. We didn’t get other things done, but we did see that,” Carroll told reporters on Monday. “I told them today, I remember telling Kam [Chancellor] and [Richard Sherman] and those guys when they were in here years ago that in this room right now is the nucleus of a championship team that we’ll add to and we’ll bring in and support, but the guys in this room are the guys that are going to make this happen. That’s what it feels like, and we should be excited about it. I am. I’m excited about the chance of coming back and playing cleaner, sharper, more physical football than we did this year more consistently.”

    • Denver Hawker

      I’d like to see them treat it as such and go get the big Free Agents needed. I’m squinting and I just don’t see a young nucleus of future HoF players like those teams had. In 2012, the team’s finish was magical for me. I was so pumped for 2013 knowing it was a special team. They hit a grand slam in the off-season that year. I get none of those feeling with this roster. One nice win against Arizona doesn’t change my mind at all.

      • bmseattle

        Pete has made the same comparison to the 2011-2012 team the past 2 off seasons.
        It hasn’t quite worked out that way.

      • Peter

        The nucleus. Hindsight being 20/20 that team had four guys that would go on to have almost HOF careers on defense. This is why I’m over pete. It’s just disingenuous b.s. all day from him.

        Unless Taylor is a complete freakshow next year is there a single player on the team outside of probably Wagner and almost definitely Wilson who is going to the HOF?

        I really do get the idea behind a positive mental attitude. There is something as well to being honest within one’s self.

        This team showed exactly what it is this year. A completely underbuilt roster that unless everything is firing white hot can’t barely get it done.

        The AZ win was good? Really. Wilson had two turnovers but 4 tds, and penny had jaw dropping numbers and even then it wasn’t a manhandling of a floundering AZ team.

        • Denver Hawker

          I thought it a nice win. Whether the Seahawks truly won or Cards lost misses my point though. My reaction is to Pete (and his supporters) treating it like 2012 and they just missed an NCF championship game.

          • Peter

            Correction. The win was fun and nice to see. My point though i should have been clearer was if you look how Seattle wrapped up 2012 vs. 2021 it’s night and day.

            Win: a good competive game against AZ
            Win: by dominating perennial nothing Detroit
            Lose: eminently winnable game playing some serious 4d chess pete ball against a team worse than Seattle. Stand out play: punt on 4th and 3 on opponents 43 yard line when you are already out of the playoffs and you can put the game away.

            In 2012:

            Russel threw a single td and the team hung 58 points on AZ in a shut out. Then he had a very middling game against Buffalo and the team dropped 50 on them. Then just when it was about Russ managing the game he dropped 28 on the niners in another shellacking. Followed by a close wun by long time arch nemesis of this franchise.

            It was pretty evident this team was getting ready to get down to business.

    • MychestisBeastmode

      My optimistic side would say that an addition of Chandler Jones and some mixture of DT’s/ 3-techs whom could generate more penetration in passing plays could make Pete’s championship aspirations a reality.

      Caveats of course are that we keep the URFAs from our current roster. Also, we certainly need more RB quality depth, more competition for MLB depth and an upper echelon O-lineman would be nice too.

  105. Ryan Purcell

    What does anyone make about the top 10 DVOA ranking the Seahawks had this season? That was pretty surprising.

    • Rob Staton

      Offense and special teams let down by the D according to DVOA

      • jeff

        FO has admitted that Seattle ‘breaks’ their offensive rankings. I suspect this is because DVOA is a measure of per play efficiency, not per drive efficiency–as a boom or bust offense, the relative abundance of explosive plays compared to the number of poor plays skews the efficiency per play.

        Although their drive stats are not adjusted for strength of schedule, Seattle’s offensive/defensive yards per drive paint a much more accurate picture of Seattle’s true performance this year (22nd offense, 27th defense).

        The defense was 12th in the league in scoring per drive, but the 15 place disparity between yards and points per drive qualifies it as an outlier, not a vindication of the extreme bend but don’t break philosophy.

        • Rob Staton


        • bmseattle

          that’s great info, jeff.
          Makes total sense.

        • cha

          Thanks jeff. This is a nice succinct way of framing the issue.

          It shouldn’t have to take this much insight for people to understand that this defense was awful last year. But here we are.

        • Sean

          Thanks for explaining this. There are so many different stats out there that it seems somebody can always find at least one number to support their opinion. Nice to see you explain how the different metrics paint different pictures.

          Perhaps the best answer is that the defense was somewhere between 12th and 27th in the league, but it sure felt a lot closer to 27th.

  106. Scot04

    Love this quote from an anonymous GM on Patriots spending spree last offseason in an arctice in the Athletic.

    “It’s a dangerous way to go,” the general manager said. “The difference is (the Patriots) know exactly what they need in their scheme offensively and defensively. Belichick knows exactly what he needs. He hasn’t always been great as far as drafting some positions. But going into it, if there’s one coach or personnel guy that you’d say you have confidence in spending that money, it’s them because they know exactly what they want to make their scheme work.”

    This is so important & what’s been wrong with the Seahawks.
    PC is basically in the same position, but doesn’t seem to know how to build rosters to make his own scheme work.
    Wasted picks & money on players who don’t fit, made worse by Quantity over Quality.

    • cha

      Agree. The misuse of players acquired is stunning.

      The entire tight end position.

      The most creative thing they could come up with for Dee Eskridge is a jet sweep, which was innovative about 8 years ago.

      Benson Mayowa, Darrell Taylor and Carlos Dunlap dropping back in coverage while Kerry Hyder “anchors” the line and the pass rush side.

      Gabe Jackson displacing Damien Lewis.

      Tre Flowers displacing DJ Reed on the right side.

      Blitzing Jamal Adams 44 times and getting 6 pressures and zero sacks.

      Every single time they lined up DK Metcalf in the slot it was an automatic mismatch. Nah, we need to stop doing that.

      It’s just stunning.

      • Matt

        Great post. It seems to me as if PC oversimplifies complex things and over complicates the simple things.

        Player acquisition – does the player fit our system? Yes or no? If no, is that player so good that you are willing to adjust the system to their talent? Lastly, did you actually adjust your system to fit the player, that otherwise didn’t fit?

        Pete absolutely sucks at this. He went from best ever to maybe the worst in the NFL.

        “We need a strong run game.” Everybody agrees. “When we run X times, we win.” Uh…that seems overly simplistic. “We had to establish the run.” But why did you waste 3 quarters doing it?

        • cha


          Screen passes on offense.

          Screen passes on defense.

          Tighten those two simple things up and you give yourself a much better chance at improving.

          Seahawks are rock bottom in the NFL on both sides.

        • cha

          And also, I am tired of Pete throwing this spittle out about ‘everybody hates it when I talk about the run game but that’s how you win.’

          No Pete, we hate it when you talk about the importance of the run game after rushing for 30 yards because you haven’t built a real offensive line and the RB in the game was on the couch two weeks ago and your top 3 runners are injured, and Russ is out there balling trying to will this team to victory in the fourth quarter, and the defense is gassed because they cannot get off the field.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Came across this little stat and thought to myself, how can a HC, whose football “raison d’etre” is RUN FIRST, RUN OFTEN have not one RB on the roster hit 748 rushing yards through 14 games?

            It’s indefensible. For Carroll himself, and for anyone else who thinks everything is just fine.

            Amazes me that Rashaad Penny finished as the #Seahawks leading rusher for 2021 with 749 yards after having just 78 total rushing yards heading into Week 14…— Nick Lee (@NickLee51) January 12, 2022

            • Peter

              This is not a sign/ don’t sign Penny comment. But when you’re top rusher is 25th in yards for the league you are not building a run game.

          • SeattleLifer

            Yes this

          • Sean

            Exactly. The problem is not what Pete says…it is that it does not match his actions. Personally, I love watching a dominating run game and being the bully. But I hate talking about it for years and not doing it.

      • BobbyK

        Like when the had Justin Britt going into his 3rd year. They later signed him to an extension, which meant they didn’t need a center for quite some time.

        What do these idiots do?

        They draft a center with their 2nd round pick. A center that really wasn’t good enough or physical enough to play guard. Basically, this team who wanted to be the “bully” picked one of the least physical interior OL they could that early. So, they used a 2nd round pick on a back-up center (and overall crappy player for a 2nd round pick).

        Then there’s the Blair draft pick. A year later they move their future and destroy their salary cap space. So they basically wasted another valuable 2nd round pick for a backup SS.

        So. Dumb.

        • cha

          I did read years ago an unconfirmed report that Paul Allen stepped in on Britt and told the FO to extend him. Cable, Pete and John had been playing ‘build a bear’ with the OL and after a season of steady play at C they were about to upset the apple cart again with Pocic. Allen said no.

          Take it with a grain of salt.

          If true it does lend some credence to what the team has been missing in PA’s leadership.

  107. Uptown

    Perhaps the search is for a new Executive President that takes Pete’s old moniker that PC and JS both have to answer to, as Coach only and GM?

    • Rob Staton

      Maybe. Who knows 🤷‍♂️

      Hopefully we get clarity today though, the mystery has become boring

      • bmseattle

        It has.

        And while we all hope to get clarity immediately following this “meeting” that is supposedly happening.
        It’s just as likely that we still don’t get any news in the near future.

        • Rob Staton

          Thankfully there are people at the top of Seattle’s pyramid willing to, shall we say, dabble in a bit of media leaking

    • Ashish

      I fear with all this drama, nothing will change for us. We don’t know who is making final call on Personal now and in near future assuming they will keep same coach and GM.
      Unless they decide to fire Pete, this is BS.

    • Uptown

      With the advent of PC relinquishing his title as Exec President to be Coach, I can see the possibility of KNJ relinquishing his role as DC and become LB coach. Then the new Exec President could hire Dan Quinn to be Associate Head Coach and DC, with the prospect of becoming Head Coach in a few years.

      Dan could work with the DL, KNJ the LBs and PC the DBs, something they all excel in doing. In that way the defense could drastically improve.

      Regarding the offense, I do like the direction that they are heading.

  108. Seahawkwalt

    per espn …They are reporting on ESPN right now that Pete will concede personnel decisions to the General Manager.

    • Seahawkwalt

      Apparently breaking, havent confirmed just yet.

      • Rob Staton

        This isn’t a breaking story — Jeremy Fowler touted this yesterday. It was a suggestion, not a report

        • Seahawkwalt

          Oops sorry guys…

    • TomLPDX

      Pete and John have been in their old dynamic for a decade. How in the world would Pete just cede control to John without that old dynamic rearing it’s ugly head all the time? This just doesn’t seem like a smart decision but one of glossing over the season and nothing really changing.

      • Seahawkwalt

        Maybe Jody gave an ultimatum. If this is just to appease fan base and if behind closed doors, things dont change (re power structure), I’ll be severely hacked off.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Do you have something to share that speaks to this? I’ve been watching ESPN for the last hour or so and haven’t heard anything on the Seahawks situation. And there’s nothing breaking on twitter.

    • BA

      This just strikes me as one of those things that are unverifiable and done purely for show. We’ll never know the true front office dynamics and there’s a meaningful lag (at least one season) before you can even say that anything got better or worse. This has “Pete diversion tactic” written all over it.

  109. cha

    FWIW Rapaport posted on Twitter an hour ago “meeting today but we still don’t know what is happening”

    • jed

      I know it’s fairly annoying as fans not to know what’s going on. But, it’s awesome that Jody and her confidants have nothing to do with the NFL media machine. Guess when you’re worth (or control) $20+ billion, you’re in a different circle.

  110. Duceyq

    I think if Jody Allen is looking at advanced metrics she should keep PC and everything intact with the exception of KNJ.

    Seattle managed to finish 8th Team total DVOA and that’s one spot ahead of NFC favorites Green Bay and one spot behind KC.

    Every other team in the top 10 DVOA are in the playoffs with the exception to Seattle. PC may actually be right in saying Seattle had a few things in certain games not go their way when examining the advanced stats.

    In spite of the injuries to Chris Carson and Russell Wilson Seattle still finished 7th in Offensive DVOA and 21st in Defensive DVOA. Special Teams finished 5th.

    PC still seems to have the support of his players and I’m sure that is key during Jodi’s evaluation. The players left it on the ground for PC in AZ and when you consider Diggs had nothing to play for he continued to play hard into week 18.

    • Rob Staton

      Jody Allen shouldn’t make a decision based on the 2021 DVOA rankings.

      She should make a decision based on four years of team building, performance and direction.

      • Duceyq

        I agree but if she looks at the last three seasons of advanced metrics it still supports the notion of how good the team has been with this year being more of the outlier.

        Team DVOA ratings from 2018-2020


        Defensive DVOA tells a different story.


        KNJ is noose around the defenses neck if we look at it objectively. Jodi has a staff that I would imagine is giving her every stat possible along with the vibe of the players.

        The overall direction of the team metrically has improved in a 4 year span and it’s always tough to equate the value of injuries to a QB in the beginning of the season while trying to implement a new offensive system.

        GReen Bay missed the playoffs when Rodgers broke his collar bone. In RW’s case and injury to your throwing hand (based on his play while first coming back) suggests he came back 3 weeks too early. He should’ve been sidelined for at least 6 weeks. Russ was actually a downgrade from Geno Smith at the time Russ returned.

        If you listen to RW’s interview in AZ on the field after the game, he doesn’t look like player at odds with his coach. It feels like he’s finally bought into what his role in this offense and is committed to another season in Seattle.

        • Rob Staton

          But again, she shouldn’t be making any decision based on DVOA.

          She should be making a decision based on the personnel decisions, the performance on the field and the direction of the team.

          DVOA shouldn’t even cross her mind, frankly.

          ‘Well the Adams trade was a disaster, you’ve won one playoff win in five years, you’ve wasted $100m in free agency, the same issues keep repeating, your staff isn’t good enough, you’re drafting has been poor, we’ve just finished 7-10 and last in the division — but I see per DVOA we were ranked relatively well.’

          Come on.

          • Duceyq

            But to your point Rob, just as the team finished 7-10 with Adams this past season they also finished 12-4 and division champs the year before. And that 12-4 season also came after 11-5 and 10-6.

            That would suggest an upward trajectory just based on record alone w/o consulting DVOA.

            So Jodi is presented with this season being more of the outlier at 7-10 then the seasons previous. Also, in 6.5 games your franchise QB was out or playing injured.

            I don’t think just trading for Adams is enough of a fireable offense when you take into account how well this roster still played for years until the QB was injured.

            • Rob Staton

              But it wasn’t an upward trajectory was it? I’m not going to repeat everything I’ve been saying for two years. And they’re now 7-10. There’s nothing upward about that.

              ‘2020 record’ and ‘DVOA’ are not a fitting argument to counter the concerns I raised in my last post.

            • Big Mike

              One playoff win in 5 years and that against a 40 yr old backup QB
              Blasted in the first round by the Rams last year who were quarterbacked by a broken thumb Goff.
              That’s enough for me to say “screw DVOA” and give me on field results.

        • Peter

          His role per DVOA is apparently carry the team.

    • Peter

      Re: Diggs

      First it’s impossible to speculate why a player plays anyway or the other.

      Diggs however is on a contract year.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Are you suggesting Diggs played hard for Carroll, and not because he was about to become a FA looking for is next contract?

      I don’t know how to respond to that.

      • Duceyq

        Blitzy, I’m suggesting that Diggs still saw the value of playing a meaningless game for a coach he might not be suiting up next year for. He could’ve easily mailed it in and waited for his new contract offers after a second straight Pro Bowl nod. Him playing speaks to the culture that PC has managed to build

        Diggs play suggest that he was dedicated to this team and staff. Unfortunately, it didn’t end well for him but it feels as if Diggs will still get his deal in Seattle.

        Dunlap gave a great interview about how he approached the staff about his reduction in snaps and how well that conversation went. Subsequently, Seattle increased his snaps rushing the QB toward the end of the season and you could see how improved the defensive line played as whole with Dunlap playing.

        That open door policy seems to foster good will among the players and we can see how a team quits on a coach (see Giants) and this team didn’t. All the vets are still bought in to PC’s program.

        • Rob Staton

          I’m a bit tired of people associating any kind of non-mailing it in performance as some kind of review of a player’s feelings towards a coach.

          These players have personal pride and money at stake. They have their team mates. They are still paid to do a job.

          Everyone’s acting like the fact they didn’t take a tummy tickle in Arizona means anything at all.

          The Vikings beat the Bears 31-17 in their final game. Then they fired Mike Zimmer. And a key player absolutely ragged Zimmer after, saying he ruled by fear.

          And if we’re saying the team played hard ‘for PC’ in Arizona, did they fall out with him before the Chicago game and then make friends after?

          • BobbyK

            And players know other GMs are watching. Are you a quitter? If you don’t give it your all in a meaningless week 17 game – you’re going to potentially cost yourself millions, especially if you’re a FA that particular offseason. Nobody wants anyone like that. I wouldn’t.

  111. BoiseSeahawk

    If you could select one player from each draft class in Rob’s list, who would you pick?:

    2016 — Kenny Clark, Chris Jones, Xavien Howard, Derrick Henry, Michael Thomas
    2017 — Tre’Davious White, T.J. Watt, Ryan Ramczyk, Budda Baker, Dalvin Cook
    2018 — Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Darius Leonard, Jaire Alexander, Frank Ragnow, Leighton Vander Esch, D.J. Moore, Calvin Ridley
    2019 — Montez Sweat, Josh Jacobs, Deebo Samuel, Elgton Jenkins, A.J. Brown
    2020 — Jonathan Taylor, Trevon Diggs

    16- Derrick Henry
    17- TJ Watt
    18- Darius Leonard
    19- Deebo Samuel
    20- Trevon Diggs

    • Justaguy

      Michael Thomas
      TJ Watt
      Nick Chubb
      Elgton Jenkins
      Trevon Diggs

    • Ben

      Based on who I’d have wanted at the time

      Chris Jones
      Ryan Ramczyk
      Chubb (not on the list but wanted Wynn)
      Sweat (in retrospect Aj…)

    • Peter

      Fun but frustrating exercise.

      Not necessarily my choices but how would the run game/offense look if they had taken Ramczyk then Ragnow?

      Love a good DB? How about you take Baker and then you don’t spend 9 more picks over the next five drafts including two firsts on safeties….still needing to maybe fill holes there yet again.

  112. cha

    Houston just fired David Culley per Schefter and Rapaport.

    • Duceyq

      Talk about a raw deal for Culley in Houston. No QB and a media fiasco surrounding your hold out franchise QB with sex scandals and trade rumors swirling. Raw deal!

      • TomLPDX

        He never had a chance.

    • BA

      Surprising. The roster was barren and Mills performed well.

    • Teethgrinder

      That is a raw deal. On the other hand he’ll be getting $$$$ for the next 4 years so I won’t feel too bad for him.

      I thought he did a really good job in an impossible situation. I wouldn’t trust Easterby as far as I could throw him.

      • TomLPDX

        I hope you’re right and he will get paid for the next few years. I actually agree with Florio here:

        • Teethgrinder

          Damm, I knew he’d signed a 5 yr deal but the snidey Texans only guaranteed 2 years of it, that’s a scumbag move. I thought coaching contracts were fully guaranteed, apparently not in this case

          • Rob Staton

            Let’s also be right here, the contract was accepted.

            And the situation was understood by all.

            I’m not defending the Texans. They are appallingly run.

            But David Culley had never been talked of, as far as I’m aware, as a big time HC candidate. He got an opportunity, the team are now going in another direction, and he gets what — $4m for this year off them?

            It’s not exactly the worst deal in the world, is it?

            • TomLPDX

              Of course it was accepted. He would have been foolish not to. But we don’t know how it was presented to him. Maybe we’ll find out, probably we wont. Still stinks of the Texans though and I’m glad I am not a fan of that team. When the Oilers left, so did my fandom for a Houston FB team. Still a big Titans fan on the AFC side.

              • Rob Staton

                Well, it’s two years with a clear out after one year. There’s no ‘presenting’ that. It is what it is.

            • Teethgrinder

              No, it’s far from the worst deal in the world and I appreciate he signed it with his eyes open. He’s set his family up for life and good on him for that. When all (?) other coaching contracts are guaranteed it just seems a low move not to do this one.

              Even Jim Tomsula got paid the full 4 years by the 9ers and you don’t get more than one and done than that

              Guess it just speaks to the lousy Texans hierarchy

              • Rob Staton

                Over here in England, coaches tend to sign ‘rolling’ contracts. If you lose your job, there’s an agreed payoff. Say 12 months salary.

                In some cases coaches sign long ‘guaranteed’ contracts (usually the cream of the crop) or even shorter deals (6 months, 12 months).

                To me, this deal wasn’t in any way remarkable. When they appointed Culley, at least to me, it was pretty evident they knew they were going to be dreadful in 2021. They had the Watson situation in the background. It wasn’t an attractive job, at all. And they appointed a left-field candidate with the idea that in all likelihood he would be a short term fix, with the next coach coming in when the gig was an easier sell.

                Thus — two years. He lasted one and gets paid off for the other.

                I think the Texans have absolute muppets running their team like everyone else. But this all makes sense to me.

                • Rob Staton

                  Now this update:


                  The #Texans owe David Culley another $17 million over the next three years, per source.

                  So Culley walks away with roughly $22 million for one season as Houston’s head coach.

                  • TomLPDX

                    Karma is a bitch! 🙂 Good for Culley!

                  • Teethgrinder

                    Great work if you can get it huh?

                  • jed

                    Good for Culley!

                    It also shows that billionaires don’t worry about the cost of getting rid of a coach. Google says the main owner (Janice McNair) is worth $4.2 billion and she just spent $17 million to get rid of Culley. Allen should have no issues eating Pete & John’s salaries if she wants to fire them.

                • TomLPDX

                  That all makes sense and I don’t disagree with it at all. Still stinks to high heaven and proves what a messed-up organization they are, which was ultimately my point. Some organizations operate to their own style, for better or worse. Watson wanted out even before his own stuff hit the fan.

                  • Rob Staton

                    Can I ask though, why does it stink to high heaven?

                    A team can hire and fire who they want. They don’t owe anyone a job. They’ve paid Culley, according to the report, $22m for one season.

                    What stinks about that? Especially given when the situation he signed up for was pretty likely to head this way.

                  • TomLPDX

                    I think the thing that bothers me the most is the Easterly angle. I’ve followed along with his story for a while and he just seems disingenuous and if you can’t trust him, can you really trust anyone in that organization? I realize I only know this from what has been reported so my opinion is formed by that. But it all seems very consistent.

                  • TomLPDX

                    *Jack Easterby

                    Sorry, didn’t mean to take us down this tangent

    • Pran

      Texans wants to be in press…

    • Jordan

      Joke franchise.

      That team exceeded expectations with that man at the helm. The league is appalling when it comes to black head coaches.

      • BobbyK

        They hired a man. Gave him crap talent. They naturally sucked. And the coach got fired because the “talent” the organization provided him was worthless. So, yeah, lets fire the coach. Makes perfect sense.

        Unless you’re an Urban Meyer and brought the scandal to yourself, no coach should be fired after a single season. This isn’t about race or they wouldn’t have hired him in the first place. Before making that comment, how do you know they don’t hire a black coach to replace him?

        For now, this is just bogus hiring/firing of a man – of any color – and firing him after one year. So stupid. One thing I’m getting sick of is some of these idiot GMs who get hired and screw up their drafts and fire/blame it on the coach. Like the idiot in Miami who picked Tua over Herbert – the GM is the dipstick and blames it on the coach. So, so stupid.

  113. Blitzy the Clown

    Lil something for the “Russ is done” crowd.

    Russell Wilson's Total QBR ranking in the first three games (Weeks 10-12) of his return from finger surgery: 29thWeeks 13-16: 13thLast two games: FirstOn the strong finishes to a bad year by Wilson and the Seahawks' offense:— Brady Henderson (@BradyHenderson) January 13, 2022

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Would add that this is strong evidence to support the assertion that the only thing that changed late in the season for Seattle was that Wilson got healthy and returned to form – best in the NFL form.

      And it’s further proof that Wilson is primarily responsible for Seattle’s regular season success for the last 5 seasons or so, and not Carroll.

      • Duceyq

        Blitzy, I would suggest the improvement in the running game with the emergence of Penny + Cuhran/ Lewis/Haynes is also responsible to the improved play of Russ too. PC should be given some credit for that.

        • Rob Staton


          Why not celebrate Penny? Or Shane Waldron?

          Why does the Head Coach and VP, who hasn’t created a consistent running game for years, deserve credit for a late season flurry when the games didn’t matter any more? (When it was too late)

          • bmseattle

            I credit the Jamal Adams injury. 😉

            • Big Mike

              post of the day

          • cha

            I’m fine with giving PC any and all credit for the Arizona win.

            As long as he gets any and all blame for horrible losses to Tennessee, New Orleans, Green Bay, Arizona the first time, two Rams games, Minnesota, etc etc.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          I would say the stats suggest it’s the other way around – Wilson’s return to form is a large part of Penny’s emergence at the end of the season.

          Let’s go to the stats. Penny was active for, and carried the ball in, 7 of the last 8 games of the season (he didn’t play in Week 12). In Weeks 11 and 13, when Wilson was just returning from his injury and clearly not playing anywhere close to his ability, Penny had 12 carries for 45 yards (3.75 ypc). Wilson’s average QBR for those 2 games was 89.75.

          In Weeks 16, 17 and 18, when Wilson had returned to top form (top in the NFL form) and averaged a QBR of 115.9, Penny had 65 carries for 495 yards (7.6 ypc)

        • Sean

          If you think PC gets credit for Penny playing well for the last quarter of the season, then you must also give credit to PC for Penny producing close to nothing for 3 3/4 seasons before that, or if you take out injury games, for about 2 seasons worth of ineffectiveness. That’s what you meant isn’t it?

  114. 12th chuck

    for any Josh McDaniel fans out there

    • Denver Hawker

      Radio guys talking about that- a few other players chimed in and apparently DJ had the timeline blurred a bit between a couple seasons. Nonetheless, point remains McDaniels is very much attached to spygate.

      • 12th chuck

        I would absolutely agree. I wouldn’t want him as a coach here, not one bit.

        • Denver Hawker

          I wrote above that I find him an intriguing option. Almost every option out there will carry risk. I’d like to think he’s grown quite a bit from mistakes made in Denver. My biggest knock on him though was I wasn’t convinced he couldn’t be successful without Brady. He’s shown otherwise this year.

  115. Gross MaToast

    While we wait:

    Top 5 Cheerleader Squads in the NFL, per me:

    5. Charger Girls. I mean, come on, what’s not to love – ‘B’ movie star appeal, athleticism, decent situational awareness – these girls bring it every week, unless they get a callback for the dead hooker #3 role on some version of CSI.

    4. Chief Cheerleaders. These often underrated Midwest farmers daughters really make you feel alright with their wholesome, gluten-heavy choreography. Hurt by their lack of a catchy nickname, although as it would likely be something culturally insensitive, perhaps it’s for the best.

    3. Raiderettes. Almost Vegas showgirl-quality combined with a long history of dancing to ‘Pour Some Sugar On Me’ in various locales, these ladies would even say they like Mark Davis’ haircut if it meant they could cheer on their favorite team every Sunday.

    2. Jets’ Flight Crew. Under the radar since receiving some unwanted texts from Brett Favre, these girls are are the best things associated with the Jets’ franchise, and it’s not even close. They’re actually worth 2 firsts, a third and a player.

    1. Cowboy Cheerleaders. Iconic. The standard. How many of you wouldn’t swell with pride when bragging to your friends that you were dating/married to a Cowboy Cheerleader? Liars. You all would.

    • Rob Staton

      You’re posts never fail to entertain. Bravo

  116. Peppapig

    Go Jets!

  117. samprassultanofswat

    Yes. Russell wilson was healthy at the end of the season. But RW needs a running game. If you a remember before RW injured his finger he was not having that great of a season. RW needs a running game.

    • Rob Staton

      Every QB benefits from a running game

      Given Wilson has dragged this team along without a running game in the past — it seems a bit revisionist to say he ‘needs’ one.

    • Peter

      I do remember. Russ threw 320 yards and 2 tds vs the Titans. But the “running game,” ran a measly 70 odd yards. And the top ten in scoring defense gave up 32 points and an eye popping 212 yards on the ground.

    • BA

      Seriously, every QB benefits from a running game. That’s the whole point. Same with a semi-functional defense. No team has ever won consistently in the NFL with the QB carrying the whole team on his back. It’s as if fans are expecting a bare minimum 2017 vs Texans performance for 10+ games a year to reluctantly credit him for being a good QB.

  118. Rob Staton

    Not saying this is going to happen again at all but…

    When the Seahawks parted with Jim Mora, it was announced on the Friday after the final game of the season

    • JJ

      Salk is even wondering why we haven’t heard anything yet. He is making light of it, but he has to be wondering why he kissed so much Pete ass over the last few months.

      • Rob Staton

        I mean, if the meeting was just ‘carry on as normal’ you have to think we’d have heard by now

        • SeaTown

          Negotiations on a buyout? (Please god!!)

        • dand393

          I agree but would also say the same if they were going to get rid of him we would have heard about it

          • Rob Staton

            Maybe. But I don’t think if you move on from Pete Carroll it just gets tweeted out at 7pm. There would be a big arrangement made here.

      • Rob Staton

        Brock mentioned this morning that Schefter said something interesting about the Seahawks situation earlier today on ESPN

        Did anyone see it in the morning?

  119. Denver Hawker

    Impressive that zero information has come out today.

    Guessing meetings were offsite and likely continuing.

  120. samprassultanofswat

    According to Jake/Stacy John Schneider will be calling the shots. To me this is LONG OVERDUE. I say AMEN! My gut tells me that Pete Carroll was the guy pushing for Jamal Adams. Finally John Scheider will be calling the shots. FINALLY!

    • BobbyK

      I think the Jamal Adams trade was the final straw for Pete Carroll, though ppl were fooled by the unusually lucky 12-4 year last season. Anyone with a brain (or critical thinking ability) knew that wasn’t a “real” 12-4 team.

      They traded for a bum SS and paid a “buy now” and “f-the future” price, especially with a coach older than my grandma who died of “old age” back in the day (this isn’t ‘insensitive’ either… nobody would defend her more than me).

      I’ve always suspected any GM with somewhat of a brain would have said “no” to the price they paid. As any of us morons who were too dumb to know that TJ Watt was better than ATV, too.

      • samprassultanofswat

        Bobby K: Totally agree. Pete Carroll wanted Jamal Adams. This trade tuned out to be a nightmare.

      • Pran

        Who wrote the contract even after the debacle trade? Js is not without blame. If he didn’t push back after all these years of slippery slope he is no good for that position.

        • SeattleLifer

          My thoughts for a long time now as well ‘nail on the head’.

          I would add that if John can be such a pushover in his own organization then why would’nt other (craftier/more assertive etc) gm’s be able to take advantage of him in trades? Or player’s agents in negotiations as well. We may never know for sure but there are certainly a number of suspect trades and contracts over the years that seemed too one-sided or too expensive/tilted, not to mention the kowtowing to holdouts and “pre”holdouts.

          John seems too reactionary in nature at times, too easily manipulated at others and even off with his stance at times – pushing for things too hard when he feels there may be some leverage and losing a player yet not pushing back hard enough at other times and getting taken by players agents or other gm’s. Nobody is perfect and I get that we aren’t privy to the inner workings of things but I believe there’s been enough of a pattern in too many facets and instances to move on from John.

    • DC

      RW to the Giants in 3, 2, 1…

      • BobbyK

        I’ll support JS having control until that happens… trading a franchise QB for shit picks they’ll screw up anyways.

        And even if they hit on them with perfection, the team won’t have a Super Bowl QB to help them over the hump.

        Either way – we’re losers. Or they are. Because, like I said, the archives of this blog prove we’re too dumb to think that TJ Watt could possibly be better than ATV. We’re just too dumb to know better, as comPete makes us out to be truly that dumb.

    • Matthew

      I think that’s a fair consequence for the Adam’s trade, for PC. I don’t know if JS will be better though. Wilson would be in Chicago, and maybe we could have drafted Mac Jones? IDK, my point is it’s hard to tell if giving JS more power equals better picks without knowing who pushed where. I know PC pushed back on drafting Wilson in the second round, and be for Wagner AND Wilson, and he also nixed trading him…

    • Pepoandart

      If it’s true that JS is going to call the shots I hope we go back to the trade down get more picks approach. More picks gives us more chance to find those diamonds. That is how you build depth which we need. That said unless the deal is mind blowing (maybe 3 1st, 3 2nds and 3 3rds) we better keep Wilson and ownership needs to be clear on that.

    • Cysco

      Wait, are you/the reporting this as fact? or were they speculating what could be happening?

  121. samprassultanofswat

    John Schneider was the guy pushing for Russell Wilson. I think John Schneider has a KEEN eye for talent. But from what I have heard Pete Carroll had the final say on draft day. The assumption is that Carroll/Schneider worked really well together. But I would be willing to bet that there were many times on draft day that John Schneider had to bite his tongue with some of Pete Carrolls decisions. After all Pete Carroll had the final say. I also heard that John Schneider wanted Nick Chubb. Pete Caroll wanted Rashard Penny. The Malik McDowell pick I don’t have a gut feeling one way or the other on that particular decision. But remember this: Pete Carroll is a defensive guy.

    It would be really interesting to know who pushed for some of the deals gone bad. Particular(Percy Harvin, Jimmy Grahm, and the Jamal Adams debacle) deals. Pete Carroll really like Leon Washington. He might of had Leon Washington on his mind when they traded for Percy Harvin. Who knows?

    • STTBM

      Darrell Bevell was the guy pushing for Wilson. He convinced JS eventually, but Wilson is a Seahawk because of Bevell. But yes, by the Draft, JS was ready to pick Wilson even in the first if need be.

  122. JimQ

    Soley based on the fact that JS’s contract was for 2 more years than PC’s as a potential “succession plan”, I can see the following as a somewhat possible outcome.
    A “potential” announcement:
    (1) JS heads search group for a new head coach, PC announces he’s going back “home to LA” as the new coach at UCLA. New head coach & his selected staff introduced in a week/10-days, max.
    (2) New coach gets to decide on what to do with the team & current players, including RW & is subordinate to JS who remains as GM & will run that side of the operation. Let administrators administrate & coaches coach.
    (3) Seahawks rejoin the elite in the NFC-West, might take a season, but by 2-nd year, bingo, problems solved.

  123. samprassultanofswat

    No doubt that JS could find a replacement for PC. But as far as PC parting as head coach I would be stunned.

  124. no frickin clue

    Pete has argued that this year the one-score games went against them, when in the prior years, it worked out in their favor.

    I really don’t see why this is an effective argument. Perhaps it’s just the best argument at his disposal.

    What he’s really implying, even if he won’t go there, is that this team has been walking on a razor’s edge for years, dependent on a magical QB to bail them out at the last second. How is that consistent with championship calibre?

    At this point all of his arguments feel like a tidal wave of gaslighting. There’s no issue, we’re right there, this feels like 2011-2012 again. Come on.

    • 206

      Agreed. We all love those last second comebacks, but you cant rely on them as the expected way of winning. The Seahawks teams of 2013 and 2014 had some clutch last second wins, but for the most part they were demolishing their opponent.

  125. Mr drucker in hooterville

    If losing Pete means JS trades away RW. I can live with a Stop gap QB or rookie if we get an exciting HC.

    • Ashish

      Why someone trade Russ when you fix the problem by firing Pete? With Russ as QB you can attract good coach.

      • Scot04

        Because JS had agreed on a trade in principle for Russ last year, but Carroll said no.

        • GoHawks5151

          Ownership can simply say, Pete’s out and you’re not trading Russ. They don’t have to love each other to work with each other

          • Peter

            Outside of the prospect of talking draft choices on this site I am over the trade Russ conversation. Last year, this year, maybe next year who is Seattle going to get to replace him and have the respurces to improve the team?

            Rodgers? Watson? The team would have the same problems that have plagued them for years. Five years into a rebuild if the all of a sudden say “shoot we should get stars in the trenches,” they can do that with Wilson so honking trades for QB’s with talent is a net neutral.

            Other than a situation like that the QB’s via the draft either last year or this year? So far there’s no mahomes or josh allen somewhat obviously sitting there to draft or try to.

        • Ashish

          In that case we let go JS too. finding great QB is difficult but not GM.

    • Scot04

      If we lose RW, PS & JS better be gone too. He should also be held accountable.
      Hopefully we get answers soon

    • UkAlex6674

      Pretty sure the Jets said that after Namath.

      How long is a a stop gap though realistically? I do not see for one minute how trading a HOF QB is a good idea in any way shape or form.

      The Seahawks know RW is the absolute face of the franchise. If they boot him and PC who would want to be Head Coach of this team? Having an exciting HC without Wilson kind of dilutes it.

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