At the start of Pete Carroll’s post-game press conference, a loud horn-honk blurted out, presumably from someone’s cell phone.
“I agree” said Carroll, dryly, in response to the noise, after a 30-3 hammering.
I enjoy a bit of gallows humour. So kudos to Seattle’s coach for that, at least.
For the second week in a row my personal business decision not to stay up until the early hours of the morning to watch a pre-season game was rewarded.
I half expected someone to present me with a game-ball when I’d watched the condensed version of this latest enthralling counter, several hours after its conclusion.
‘Well done Rob, you’re the real winner this weekend’
Let’s get the usual caveats out of the way. Yes, Denver played a much stronger team than Seattle at the start of the game. You’d expect them to be superior and that’s very much how it played out.
I still have concerns from these two pre-season games.
Last week it looked like a well prepared, organised, functioning set of backups against a group that had been thrown together in a week or two.
Against Denver it felt like more of the same. The Seahawks barely functioned. They couldn’t get off the field on defense. They seem incapable of putting together a cohesive offense when key starters are missing.
The arguments last week about Seattle’s coaching, development and depth felt validated.
Jon Gruden put together a plan so that Nathan Peterman, Las Vegas’ third string quarterback best known for an embarrassing stint in Buffalo, could play reasonably well.
In two weeks, what have the Seahawks dished up? Watching Geno Smith, Alex McGough and Sean Mannion has been torturous. So either all three are just so bad they shouldn’t be on the roster (which is plausible) or the coaches really need to put them in a better position to succeed.
It’s not just the quarterback play though (although it was horrendous — and I don’t want to see another checkdown ahead of the LOS on fourth down ever again). There were major, back-breaking penalties. The running game was abysmal. The turnovers and decision making farcical.
The Seahawks looked hopeless, disorganised and incoherent on offense. They couldn’t get even the basics right in order to sustain a few drives to properly evaluate the roster.
It’s not about being brilliant and impressive with backups in pre-season. It would be nice to see evidence though of a team that can at least function to a basic level. Gruden got a tune out of Peterman. Frankly — a performance 50% as good as the Raiders on offense last week would be appreciated at this stage.
It was also a night to think about, once again, what could’ve been. As Rashaad Penny ran for eight yards on five carries, falling down on first contact, the name ‘Nick Chubb’ once again filled my brain.
I’m sure it was the same for John Schneider too. It’s long since been revealed how much they regret the decision they made in the 2018 draft. Chubb is fresh off a big contract extension in Cleveland. At least the Seahawks won’t have to worry about that with Penny. He’ll only be on the final roster by default at this stage. Given the way Deejay Dallas played against Denver, he might be for the chop anyway.
On defense, many key starters were also missing. Yet a number of players they’re clearly relying on also played. That includes Ahkello Witherspoon — who was beat by Jerry Jeudy early in the game for a big fourth down conversion before settling into a role on special teams.
Consistently Denver managed to move the chains on fourth down — converting three of four times.
Of course this will be a different team with Carlos Dunlap, Bobby Wagner, Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs starting. Yet short of Rasheem Green — who is an expert in flattering to deceive — there wasn’t a whole lot to take away from this game in a positive sense.
The cornerback position feels like a major problem waiting to happen. Witherspoon left San Francisco without much of an attempt to retain him. He’s been, at best, a middling starter who the 49ers clearly saw as replaceable.
Suddenly we’re left pining for D.J. Reed’s return, while hoping he can stay healthy. Even he alone might not be enough — he was a pleasant surprise a year ago and who can say whether he’ll be reliable as the de facto #1 corner in 2021?
I’m also concerned that as Seattle evolves the scheme defensively that they’re going to try and plug square pegs into round holes. I haven’t studied either player specifically against Denver but I did notice Alton Robinson listed as a linebacker on the depth chart pre-game. A week ago he was listed as a LEO.
Robinson and Darrell Taylor, for me, should do one thing in 2021. Rush the passer on passing downs. Let them get after it. That’s what they’re good at.
Trying to fit them in at SAM feels like a mistake.
If you need a certain type of ‘SAM’ to play this way, go and get K.J. Wright.
Robinson has shown flashes as a pure pass rusher and that’s what Taylor was drafted for. Let them focus on that, where they can truly impact games.
I’ll finish with a reinforcement of what I said last week. I have concerns about the way this team develops players and I don’t think they’ve done a good enough job there for a few years. I don’t trust Ken Norton and Pete Carroll to get the most out of their defensive personnel. I think there’s a lot of pressure on Shane Waldron, as a rookie offensive coordinator and play caller, to deliver on offense.
There’s a lot of hope for Waldron but the reality is, he’s a total unknown.
I also don’t think this team has drafted well enough or used its resources properly since the re-set in 2018.
The end product is a top-heavy roster that relies on star players to cover coaching, development and depth warts. And this pre-season, we’re seeing the roster ruthlessly exposed.
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Yep, that was miserable. Even the condensed game felt like a slog. I dont really have anything else to add except to reiterate my comment last week that Wood-Anderson needs cutting immediately.
Tre Brown wasn’t targeted at all. Hope he wins a starting job.
In fairness, I doubt Denver were deliberately keeping away from a fourth round rookie in pre-season.
This is now 2 games where he’s seen very few targets, either opponents are all deliberately trying to get him onto the roster , the guy opposite has been that bad on every pass or he’s actually showing coverage chops.
This sounded snarkier than it was meant to be, I was just trying to lay out all possible options on the Brown thing here, 2 games of few targets is not a pattern, but it is encouraging, compared to everything else
Well who knows? I haven’t studied him. I’m guessing you haven’t either.
I wouldn’t read too much into it is what I’m saying.
This roster is a Russel Wilson trade next off season from the #1 overall pick in 2023.
That’s not quite so, even if we were to trade RW, we’d still have a number of very good players, starting with DK and Tyler. But yes, it’s a huge difference between having RW on the pitch and starting any of his current backups. Can’t help but wonder how RW would look with this very weak OLine though – Gabe Jackson, DLewis and Shell are a different story.
With BBK’s injury at a position where we lacked depth anyways (and I totally agree with Rob, Taylor and Robinson should stay at pass rush), JS should seriously reconsider bringing back KJ Wright now.
I think Trevor’s point isn’t that there is zero offensive talent behind him, but that RW’s ability to create is hiding the flaws in development and resource allocation Rob was talking about. We can only hope these preseason games so far are not an indicator of Waldron’s ability to craft a gameplan during the regular season.
Usually an ultra positive fan but I don’t see a contending team here. This is a shell of our former Super Bowl teams. No Seahawk bad ass attitude, little resilience on late downs on both sides. Front office seems to be sleepwalking as the cupboard is bare with few up- and-coming players at so many positions. Coaching up players feels like it’s stagnated. Defense is very soft in the front middle and out wide on the back end. So many holes that it makes me think that by the time they could be filled to make the team a contender, guys DK, Russ, Bobby may be done or have moved on…
There’s simply nothing to add after reading what you wrote Rob.
Reminds me of 1992. I know, pre-season, scrubs etc. But dang the way players get injured a team needs at least halfway decent depth. It just isn’t there.
Hearing all this gushing about how good players look in camp, it’s just bullocks.
Witherspoon expected to start, owned by Jeudy. Brooks, beaten on a route near the goal line albeit a great throw by Teddy but you know, that’s what good NFL QBs do. Penny……..has half the pop of journeyman Alex Collins and runs half as hard. Darrell Taylor is as much a LB as Rob is a jockey at 6’4″. The beat goes on. Pathetic.
Great day to be a Seattle sports fan yesterday btw, Hawks get shellacked by Denver and the Mariners lose 15-1 to the cheating asstros.
Penny does a good Eddie Lacy imitation. He can stop that now, or else he can get a job delivering pizza.
Credit to Rob for watching the whole condensed game, I tried but dropped out with 5 minutes on the clock. A rubbish weekend on the sporting front my football (soccer) team playing in the English basement league conceded 3 in the first 24 minutes, went on to lose 1-4 but some fans saw the second half as a success as we edged it 1-0 !This was followed by the Seahawks capitulation.
It may only be warm up games and obviously starters are protected, however the 2 games so far have been hideous. So few positives, DJ Dallas showing decent potential but is he RB 2? waiting for him to feature in a trick play this season if he gets regular play, he has experience as a QB if I recall correctly.
Very disappointed to see Ryan Neal picked up an injury which could see him miss a number of games, was hoping he would be fit and ready to plug in as he will inevitably be needed.
What’s our position of most concern now, Running Back 2,TE, Left Tackle, DL, Corner, Centre, LB? That’s without even thinking the lack of back up to Russ. What a shallow roster.
Maybe easier to ask what is not a position of concern?
Ummm, kicker and punter are positions of strength!
Hey, what about the long snapper!
What is the difference between the back end of the rosters of old compared to now? Seems we were always so deep, that our cuts even had instant spots on other teams. Now we can barely produce backup level players. Is it the drafting or development that is lacking, and why have they suddenly been unable to produce quality backups like they did so easily before.
Poor drafting, poor FA decisions, poor use of resources, perhaps the loss of certain coaches, maybe some hubris
We should also add increased competition to the list. The NFL is a “copycat” league and all and it seems the Hawks have not been able to adapt to a constantly changing league. We’re targeting the same guys who used to be UDFAs foe us, now are scooped up in the later rounds
Sequence that is emblematic of this slop of a game
2nd Q, Seahawks have put together a drive and are moving well. Have gained 50 yards or so and are in FG range at the 35. After gaining a first down, two minute warning. Time to put in a package of plays to strike.
Play 1 – incomplete pass
Play 2 – a 1 yard run by Collins
Seahawks stand with a 3rd & 9 at the 29 with about 1:40 to play. In FG range.
What do they do? They intentionally bleed about 30 seconds off the clock and call a timeout. Insert mindless praise from Curt Menefee for their game management skills. You see, the Seahawks don’t want to give Denver any time to drive the field before the half. They’ve converted a 3rd and 4 and a 3rd and 3 on this drive but a 3rd and 9? That’s a bridge too far.
Initiate post-timeout slop. It appears the Seahawks have indeed conceded that they’re only getting a FG try out of the drive. Call a screen to Penny and Magoo throws it to the 300lb guy in white.
Denver drives the field and gets a FG before the half.
One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.
3 days ago, Seahawks official youtube releases a video on the ‘battle’ to start at SAM between Taylor and Barton
yesterday: Seahawks release official depth chart listing Barton at WILL
Also yesterday: Cody Barton doesn’t take a single snap at SAM
It’s time to get serious. Evaluating the back end of this roster is like playing in your own food. Go get some help! KJ is a good place to start. Get a CB that can really play. Face facts, jettison players you are hoping will be good but haven’t shown it. If you are deciding between a rookie and a player who has been around a few years but never really proven he can be good, go with the rookie. Get serious!
I think it’s fair to say, they need to get active now. They have some cap space. It’s time to make some moves to improve the second and third tier of this roster.
On CB help, if Sherm is up for it, I’d be making that call.
I don’t imagine he’ll be playing football this year.
SAM is incredibly odd.
They really don’t have a SAM on the roster. Taylor is basically a rookie and is playing like one.
Robinson shouldn’t be used to cover.
Barton has been talked up as a SAM but as far as I can see, hasn’t gotten a single snap in preseason there. I went to a practice and the mock game and he wasn’t lined up there either.
The last meaningful snaps Barton got at SAM was in the 2019 Eagles playoff game.
I’ll say it again – if they don’t bring KJ back, I think they really need to consider using Brooks like they used KJ last year. Play him at SAM and have Barton at WILL and then in passing downs, kick Barton to the bench and move Brooks back to WILL.
My exact thoughts as well. But seriously go get KJ.
Up until now, I’ve been fine with not re-signing KJ.
But seeing as we have no one to rely upon at the SAM position, and the guys we have to plug in to the SAM are poor fits who’s attributes are best used at other positions, signing KJ seems like the smart move.
Spot on evaluation Rob, but its just a continuation of the same evaluation of this teams poor performance as a whole going back to last year and beyond. You could just cut and paste most of your comments from game to game, as they continue to apply. I can totally understand your not staying up late to watch this team play.
I no longer look forward to watching games, I watch them, but my expectations are low. Its also painful to listen to the announcers try and find good things to say about the Seahawks. Or their comments that the other team is playing mostly starters to explain the Seahawks awful performance. Even though the Seahawks are playing players expected to fill important roles.
As a whole, I can’t think of anything this organization does well anymore. Coaching, game planning, drafting, FA acquisition, trades (there have been some good ones, but the bad ones are terrible), player contracts, I could go on.
My hope is someone who cares buys this team and cleans house! Short of that, Russ demands a trade after this season and gets it. Then maybe Pete will throw in the towel and retire. A sad state of affairs for a long time fan.
In closing, this use to be (not anyone’s fault here) a great place for all things Seahawks, now there’s very little good to be said about this team.
Pathetic game, totally agree. Possible issues with depth, agree. Coaching issues, maybe-maybe not. Sky is falling and the Seahawks are horrible, don’t agree.
Here is some perspective… pre-season game. 2nd – 5th string Seahawks vs 1st string Broncos for almost the entire game. Pete won’t let the new OC show the new offense yet. Coaches putting young and fringe players in different spots to either give them reps and/or see how they perform. No game planning for the opponent. Etc.
These first two meaningless games have been disgusting, but they are just that… meaningless. Personally, I choose to wait until the regular season before I start dissecting how bad the coaches and players are. And just maybe they will surprise us and the top heavy roster will take us to another Super Bowl, it’s not out of the question to me that they could do it if everything clicks toward the end of the season.
Where did I say the sky is falling and the Seahawks are horrible?
I always struggle to understand why fans equate fair and relevant criticisms as ‘you’re saying the sky is falling’.
Imagine saying, ‘Russell Wilson had a great game and how about that throw to DK Metcalf’ and being told in response, ‘I don’t agree that this Seahawks are the greatest team ever and the city should be changed from Seattle to Pete-attle’. There’s no difference. Both are equally silly.
Not sure why you felt the need to write this, or why you falsely describe it as Denver’s 1’s for the entire game.
I pointed out that Denver started the game with a stronger team and then highlighted issues that have absolutely no connection to the line-up Vic Fangio selected for the first half.
That’s fine. But you’ll also appreciate, then, why I think you’re burying your head in the sand.
“ Where did I say the sky is falling and the Seahawks are horrible?”
You didn’t. But the blog is full of such comments. Forget that we have DK, Lockett, Carson, Everett, Gabe, Duane, D Lew, Shell, Bobby, Dunlap, Diggs and the worst Safety in the league in Jamal, but without Wilson we are the worst team in the league worthy of #1 pick. Or Seahawks got wiped out by Denver (factual statement but come on…)
“ I pointed out that Denver started the game with a stronger team”
A more accurate statement would have been, Denver played their 1st teams on Offense (including QB1 and QB 1A) and Defense for a good stretch of the game while Seahawks played a #3 QB who had a poor game with a bunch of backups plus a handful of fringe, could be starters fighting for starting roles.
I agree with you and am concerned that our backups were underwhelming and the CB position is a huge question mark. These games highlight we have little depth in case we lose any of our starters for a long stretch. The game plans has been unimaginative and dreadful but I suspect they are not opening up the playbook with a bunch of backups so other teams can get a sneak preview of what we will run when the real games begin. I also sense they are evaluating the players in situational plays.
Pete said the team will look very different when the games begin. I don’t believe him with my eyes closed. But he should get the benefit of the doubt until the “1st stringers” look this bad in a real game.
Come on Bruce. This is a poor response.
I think I’ve seen two people suggest the Seahawks would be in big trouble without Wilson and would end up drafting very early. I agree with them. Have you seen the other three quarterbacks on the roster? I’m sorry, but you’re not covering Alex McGough with Bobby Wagner and you definitely aren’t with Brandon Shell.
On top of that, people have concerns about the coaching and depth. I share those concerns. And without Wilson, I do think things would get very ugly, very quickly. It’s perfectly plausible to hold that view.
There was nothing inaccurate about what I said and regardless, none of the concerns raised are based on one isolated pre-season game.
The two options aren’t simply:
1. Really shit performance that makes it virtually impossible to watch
2. Give all your secrets away and put your players in a position to not be awful
It is possible to play far better than this without giving the game away.
No, he shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt. Because this article isn’t reacting to one pre-season game in isolation. The concerns around Pete have been growing and building for some time.
And frankly — I’d much rather have the debate than be faced with counter arguments of ‘he deserves the benefit of the doubt’ and ‘the Seahawks were crap in the 80’s so stop complaining’.
This is clearly a roster where we’re going to be the team claiming cuts from other teams. We don’t have 52-53 players good enough to be on an NFL roster, so hopefully we can get 5-8 other players from other teams that actually deserve to be on a competitive roster.
Richard Sherman needs a job if he’s got his life in order. I know where he could get one.
The internet went out in my area right before the game. How did Stone do? I don’t trusting this thing with Brown doesn’t drag into the regular season. He’s every bit as hard headed as Adams or Wilson when it comes to contracts. Can’t agree more that it’s gotten increasingly more irritating they refuse to draft a player and just let them do what they do well instead of constantly cross training multiple positions, taking Robinson and Taylor out of the Leo spot is so stupid. Have a team need, fail to address it in free agency, draft a couple guys with some upside, as soon as they show any ability quickly transition them into a position they aren’t ideally suited for at Sam. Sure the LB are the strength of the team and still not good enough despite having a hall of fame MLB, first round draft pick, extremely well payed safety/LB hybrid and they still think they need to take the edge rushers and add them to the mix? Please just keep the edge guys on the edge, and bring back KJ. He’s a legit coach on the field and makes everyone around him better. I honestly even in my most optimistic mindset can’t understand what the hell the Hawks are thinking. I haven’t liked previous moves, but could at least say, I see a plan and applaud the grit in sticking to it, counter to general opinion. This is just nonsense though. Sometimes you have to go against the grain to do something great, but this is dangerously close to just being a contrarian based solely on pride. We are entering Matt Millian level of incompetence in our player evaluations, at least as we use them on the team.
Well, at least we’ll be able to add a genuine blue-chipper, a real difference maker in next year’s draft when we end up in the top 5!
Nope… traded the pick to the Jets
wE’ll bE tOo BuSY wAtcHiNg JaMAl adAMs hIGhliGhTs…
We’ll be celebrating Jamal Adams in the 1st round next year!
It’ll be even better than the celebrating we did *this* draft!
The most intriguing part of the game was the consequtive kneels downs by Denver and then Seattle. Maybe they will do that for the whole 4th quarter against the Chargers next week. It is not gonna be pretty when the games are meaningful and the fans get drunk.
Now I know what it feels like to be a Jets/Lions fan.
I will state the obvious, RW will not go thru his entire career with out a substantial injury, few QB’s if any do. It is obvious also if it happens this year, ” kiss this season goodbye.
Pretty incredible that the franchise that had the foresight to draft Wilson and allow him to become a star have otherwise traded for Charlie Whitehurst, given big money to Matt Flynn (at the time), started Tarvaris Jackson for a year and otherwise neglected the position almost completely, never having any combo of talent/experience behind Wilson.
What a contrast of brilliance and shite.
Isn’t the “story” that John really wanted Wilson, but Pete didn’t, and John had to fight to draft him?
Imagine if Pete had stood his ground on that decision.
It’d be so interesting to know, in retrospect, how many of the draft picks were John’s guys vs Pete’s guys.
The truth is, for his first seasons RW pulled in Gardner Minshew stats. And since the system didn’t depend on QB heroics, we were fine. I wonder, if this would be still a better choice in nowadays NFL.
I can sympathize with anyone who tapped-out during the game last night. Watching our offense was a painful experience, as it almost always is without RW. And our defense still can’t seem to get our opponents offense off the field.
I know…I know…it’s preseason, and Denver played more of their starters than we didn’t, resting most of our starters and sparing them the possibility of injury.
But the thing is, I, like perhaps the majority of fans, watch these games to see how our new young draftees, UDFA’s, and FA’s, and second and third year talent are coming along, to see what kind of depth we have on our roster. We look for things to be hopeful about. We look to be surprised, for new talent to emerge and stand out, and the like.
What have we seen in this regard so far? Umm…umm…not much at all. Deejay Dallas is about the only young talent that’s noticeably stood out., and even his performance portends for not much more than moving up the RB depth chart behind Carson. (Good call by cha awhile ago saying that he was one Hawk to watch this preseason).
I don’t know. Like Rob said, we’re going to be relying upon our top end talent to a disproportionate degree this year, it seems to me. We just can’t afford to be hit by the injury bug too hard this year. And it also seems clear to me that we’ve got to bring in a couple of solid vets to shore up our roster in key areas some way, somehow.
PS> Penny looks to be a complete bust in relation to where we drafted him. Gun to head, I think I’d take Collins over Penny if we could only keep one. Would cutting Penny give us some more needed CAP flexibility to work with in the waning days before the season starts? If so, I’d be open to it.
So, basically, the Seahawks keep betting on
– RW reinventing his game
– Bwagz stopping his downward trajectory
– Jamal Adams being healthy and a competent blitzer
– a folding on the side of Duane Brown
– Dunlap keeping servicable at 32
– Quandre Diggs keeping Adams ass clean
This second suit has been handsomely roasted by the second and third suits of two mediocre AFC West teams.
The same ist true for the Rams (with the exemption the Chargers are playoff contenders). But at least, the Rams get some information out of their games. The know, that they have depth at RB, their plugin LBs worked, and the level of competition for WR6 is staggering.
I cannot really see, how this badly coached, disorganized mess the Seahawks fielded should net any idea what to tweak for better results. It will lead to what we are observing for a couple of years. Players having bad integration in a quite challenging system, cession of responsibility to the few top players.
One should watch the Bills-Bears game. There, he can watch how the second string of a true contender operates.
Come on down to Honest John’s Discount Pass Rushers, where are currently overstocked on pass rushers and will gladly pass the savings on to you! Let’s see what we have in stock…
* We’ve got a low-mileage Rasheem Green. Barely used, and he’s been looking pretty good in the last two test drives. He’s just ready and willing to fill a spot on your roster!
* Looking for something you’ve driven before, Robert Saleh? How about Kerry Hyder? This recent acquisition had 8.5 sacks last year so you can easily put him down for 8.5 more in 2021*!
(*not a guarantee of actual performance)
* How about something from the discount bin? We’ve got a Robert Nkemdiche. A former first round pick loaded with talent! Our top executive has been gushing about him, so you know he’s good. Just needs a little TLC. Make us an offer*.
(*will be sold in ‘as is’ condition)
Special offer, pick up any one of our pass rushers and we’ll throw in a Rashaad Penny free of charge!
And now for a limited time also accepting your cornerback and center trade-ins. Why should you cut a guy and get nothing in return? We’ll take him off your hands!
So come see us down at Honest John’s off the 405 in Renton. Look for the giant inflated Seahawks balloon!
Lol
Speaking of Robert Nkemdiche, as someone who has only watched one series from each side of the ball, how has he looked thus far? Kept hearing how great he looked in camp, but haven’t heard anything since. Can’t find anything on him.
My bad, looks like he’s injured and hasn’t played. Bummer.
You’re forgetting to add a $17.5 million dollar blitzing playmaker!
Imagine how many draft picks a guy like that would be worth!
You want us trading with the Jets again? We already helped get their franchise back on track.
I think Douglas would hang up the second Collier or Green were mentioned.
I’d be happy to ship Green or Hyder, but not Nkemdiche. Funny, but sadly true post, Cha
Defensive Grades
https://i.redd.it/650n7a1z5yi71.jpg
Cody Barton 82.7
Rasheem Green 79.3
Tre Flowers 78.4
Akhello Witherspoon 51.8
Ugo Amadi 50.4
Alton Robinson 47.9
Darrell Taylor 30.8
Offensive Grades
https://i.redd.it/x2m92tz59yi71.jpg
Damien Lewis 71.8
Stone Forsythe 65.8
Kyle Fuller 49.1 (77 pass block grade though FWIW)
Deejay Dallas 59.6 (71 rushing grade, a 6.9 pass blocking grade in 2 attempts…oy)
Yeah this is fine 😬
Cool, McGough managed to get a worse grade than Wood-Anderson. Cut them both.
The players that matter in the D got decent grades though: Woods, Mone, Green, Barton, Brooks.
Barton has been pretty decent (can’t believe I said that). But I can’t see how Flowers ended up with a 78.
Folks,
Lets compare the two Seattle ‘football’ teams right now. Both played last night and their flaws were on display, but one thing sure shined through at the end – the importance of depth.
Let me dismiss the Seahawks night in one play. McGoo rolls out on a naked boot, really a fancy high-school play to cut down the field to half, and he throws it to the FS underneath – a total bush-league mistake.
He should be on the waiver wire this morning, just for that play.
Now for the Sounders, or I like to call them, the Seattle Roldans. Another old coach in Brian Schmetzer who has been around forever, who favors players who do what they are told – fighters – hence his choice of the Roldan brothers, over players with more edge and athletic talent. (Not unlike the Seattle Russell Wilsons….)
BS rolls out basically the same lineup that lost the Cup last year at Columbus, expecting to beat a struggling franchise on a five game losing streak. Old guys doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, telling yourself you have a winning culture – arrogance mixed with stubbornness, maybe a touch of senility. (‘Member all ‘football’ coaches got hit in the head a lot back in the day when they were playing, so there is that…..). All this sound familiar?
Finally down 1-0 after 80 mins, BS brought on a set of subs who were bigger, stronger, faster than he had with the Roldans out on the pitch at the time. Meranda is a new pick-up but doesn’t look like a Roldan – he is thick, fast, plays really hard, with a touch of abandon, not afraid to run thru guys. He UTTERLY dominates the last ten minutes and Seattle pulls out a 2-1 victory.
BS put himself behind the eight-ball with his bad tactics and player choice but he was able to pull this out by going away from the shitty game plan at the end by having some depth to call on – but it was also kind of an RW ending, like we have seen from the Seahawks.
Funny how Seattle teams look a lot a like after awhile.
The Seattle Roldans are top of the Western Conference table, but it is doubtful with the old stubborn coach and his relatively unathletic roster choices will they raise any Cups this year.
But they will go a lot farther then the Seattle Russell Wilsons.
Two reflections on this tweet by the Seahawks yesterday…
https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1429237388438491136
1. I would happily never see the ‘fashion show’ social media posts of the players arriving in the clothes they’ve picked for game day.
2. I think Jamal Adams needs to have a word with Alan…
+2 😂
I think you’re actually being a bit too flattering Rob. This team was drafting like crap well before 2018, Lockett and Frank aside. I’m still bitter we went RB in round one in 2018. Not taking the clear cut best available back was just the cherry on top.
The Seahawks and their fans will go through the motions again in 2021.
Was there a clear cut one though? I know before the draft PFF raved about Penny and said he was a first round talent. They loved his tape and all. I mean, I can understand it I guess? Penny has definitely flashed and even had games where he’s kind of carried the offense, but he’s been hurt and that’s unfortunate because his health was probably the deciding factor between him and Chubb for Seattle.
I think the big names were Guice, Chubb, and Michel that were left after Barkley. Guice and Michel would’ve been b ad picks too. Really if it came down to these 4, basically you had a 25% of getting it right. Michel was taken just a few picks after Penny by the Patriots, then Chubb went shortly after.
Just a reminder that Seattle played only 8 of its 22 starters last night, compared to Denver playing virtually its entire starting line up for the entire first half, and many offensive starters deep into the second. I’m not at all surprised by the score.
Was it ugly? You bet. This team has paper-thin depth, at almost every position group. The DL is awful. Truly, truly awful. It’s soft in the middle and lacks speed-to-power off the edge. And I highly doubt Dunlap and Ford are enough difference makers to matter. Even if they are, they can’t play every defensive snap, and like I said, there’s NO depth behind them.
Without a serviceable DL/DL rotation, this is going to be a long season.
Ditto with the CB group, except there I think it’s even worse, because there’s no Dunlap (or even Ford) equivalent. It’s all just back ups, or at least players who would be back ups on many other teams. Sorry, but when DJ Reed is your star CB, you’re in trouble. And I like Reed just fine; this isn’t a criticism of him specifically.
But there are some bright-ish spots. I thought Sean Mannion acquitted himself rather well. He was far and away Seattle’s best QB last night. Alex McGough (McG-eeww) has to McGo NOW. I don’t even want him on the practice squad. If he’s the scout team QB that our defensive starters practice against, no wonder they often play so poorly. But Mannion played decently, as he should, given his familiarity with Waldren’s offense.
DeeJay Dallas is coming to life. We can bemoan about the failed first round pick from the 2018 Draft, or how we coulda had so-and-so from 3 years ago. But we’re stuck with the roster we have today, and at least Dallas is stepping up. Connor Weddington is stepping up too. And that’s fortuitous given Ursua is done, probably for the season and possibly for good, given his age and lack of achievement thus far in his career.
Defensively, Brooks looks good. Oh sure he missed a nifty goal line pass by Bridgewater, but he also made several key stops, tackling the WR before any YAC, at least twice to get off the field on 3rd down. To me, Brooks looks good, in control and confident.
I’m still not entirely sure which position Lakiem Williams plays, but I think he makes the next roster cut. He was the only reserve LB/S who looked halfway decent last night. Well, him and Nick Bellore. Tell me, how is Cody Barton a better LB option for Seattle than Nick Bellore at this point?
There’s a lot of justified criticism to go around. I share the criticism, and kudos to Rob and other commentators for fostering rational, reasonable discussions. But there’s also a lot of just plain old negativity, and over two preseason games in which hardly any of Seattle’s starters played a single snap. While Seattle may not have much depth, many of our starters are top-of-the-League at their positions. Seattle will win games this year, and when they do, some of the worst negative nelly’s will be acting like they knew it all the time.
I’m old enough to remember the desert years of Tom Flores, Dennis Erickson and Jim Mora. Even at his worst, Pete Carroll is way better than any of them. Has Carroll peaked? Maybe. Maybe (probably?) he’ll never take Seattle to another SB. But I’ll take winning seasons over perennial basement dwelling any time.
This was acknowledged in the piece though and the points raised in the article are not relevant to who Vic Fangio started in the first half, plus they go way beyond just one isolated pre-season game.
The issue I have with you saying this though, is you yourself raise many of the complaints or concerns people have.
If people only want to focus on those, without qualifying that Deejay Dallas had a few flashes, do they really need you to wag your finger at them under the accusation of ‘plain old negativity’?
Neither do I understand this comment. You’re falling into the trap of ‘moaning about people moaning’. There are plenty of relevant, important points being discussed that you could argue are not flattering of the Seahawks. But it totally reduces the quality of the debate when people turn up just to complain about people voicing these concerns.
It gets tiresome after a while.
The vast majority of people do not think the Seahawks are ‘bad’. Most people, myself included, expect them to have a winning season in 2021 and make the playoffs. What I am not convinced about, I believe justifiably, is their ability to go further than they have done in the last 5-6 seasons. And this could lead to the franchise quarterback demanding a trade and potential chaos. I find that concerning.
I also believe there are certain topics relating to coaching, use of resources, development and philosophy that must be talked about. I know a lot of fans rather not talk about that but hey, I guess they can always start a personal blog…
I cannot begin to tell you how much I hate this lazy BS argument.
‘I remember 20-30 years ago when the Seahawks were awful, therefore STFU and never complain about anything — however relevant — or question whether the Seahawks would benefit from change’
Your final sentence — “I’ll take winning seasons over perennial basement dwelling any time” — acts like the only choice is winning seasons with Carroll or basement dwelling. Therefore, you should stop moaning and just take your medicine.
This is anti-debate. It’s completely redundant. It’s pom-pom waving.
I guess I didn’t properly stress the difference between justified criticism and plain old negativity. I never once accused you of any of the slights you seem to have taken from my comment.
I never once said, shut up and take your medicine. I raised several points of positivity, and justified criticism, from last night’s game for discussion and debate.
No but you seem to be criticising people for complaining about stuff you yourself are complaining about. They just don’t want to tack on a compliment to Deejay Dallas or Nick Bellore.
It’s a figure of speech I used to describe what you’re implying and I stand by it. You are saying to people ‘stop moaning and accept this situation because I remember decades ago when Seattle was crap’.
That is one of the worst points that comes up regularly. It’s a nonsense.
It’s not winning seasons with Carroll or a return to the 80’s as the two sides of a Seahawks coin. It’s perfectly plausible a new coach, a fresh start could galvanise the team, make better roster/resource decisions and get this club back into serious contention.
It’s not guaranteed and nobody would ever argue it is. But too many people bring up this lazy argument where it’s Carroll or a return to the past. It’s anti-debate, anti-intellectual claptrap.
You also moaned about other people’s views and accused them of simply being negative — despite you yourself raising most of the same concerns. That’s what I took issue with.
Ok, I’ll use cha as an example of justified criticism and plain old negativity. I have tremendous respect for cha, as a major contributor to this blog, as someone with a keen football mind, etc. So I’m not criticizing cha per se, I’m just going to use two of his comments in this post to highlight the difference between justified criticism and plain old negativity.
Justified criticism:
Justified criticism:
Plain old negativity:
Again, this isn’t a criticism of cha. I love the guy. I highly value his contributions to the blog. I’m just using these comments as examples.
As to shut up and take your medicine, figure of speech nor not, it’s wholly inapplicable to my original comment. I never once said we can’t be critical of the team. I never once said it could be worse so it’s okay how it is now. I merely used a figure of speech (I’m old enough to remember…”) as a vehicle to frame MY expectations for this season. Again, MY expectations; not yours, not cha’s, not anyone else’s. MY expectations for this year is it will be better, far better, than many seasons past. Consequently, I’m more the glass is half full than half empty (at least at this point; I’m human and that can change).
Rob, you are easily one of the most talented football scouts I’ve ever encountered. And you don’t need me to tell you that. I’m sure you know it. I live for your insights and evaluations, both during the college and pro seasons. I’m not your enemy. I’m just a guy who, like you, loves football in general and the Seahawks in particular.
So Cha posts a light-hearted post with a comical tone, poking a little bit of fun at the team.
And you think that’s ‘plain old negativity’ and worthy of a complaint?
Come on man.
Love you too man.
But learn to take a joke.
I think it is too soon to decide that the DL is “garbage.” Poona, Dunlap, Woods, Mone, Hyger have a shot to be a decent set of DL. And maybe even Nkemdiche, if we are lucky.
As to SAM, although it is not the most crucial position on this defense, I too have yet to see any evidence that we have a competent replacement for K.J.
Brooks is a player, though. Tough, quick, violent and improving. Would have fit well with the team in the glory years.
Can he play center? Just kidding.
It’s nice to at least imagine someone possibly emerging as a bona fide starter down the line from the B or C list. Carson is kind of like the last player to do so, if my memory serves me correct.
Try him at SAM…
What about trying him at EDGE?
I didn’t see much of training camp but I did see some footage of Curhan at OT and he looked decent (at least in practice).
I am gravitating heavily now toward getting KJ back in the fold. I kind of sort of got where PC/JS were coming from earlier in wanting to move in the direction of younger and cheaper talent at the position. But with our CB situation being such an iffy proposition now, it would be nice to have the LB and S starting positions nailed down at season’s start.
He’d immediately be the best SAM on the roster. And as Rob said, it would free up Robinson and Taylor to focus on improving their ability to rush the passer.
So this is a Seachange for Seattle, usually, they play starters but last year they realized they don’t need a Preseason so here we are looking at the depth which to Robs point is lacking. We are Top heavy and are corners are not impressive. BUT we cant judge Waldron on this . Are offense will have to put up points and we need this pass Rush of starters to make up the difference . Bright side is DJ Dallas has emerged!
DJ Dallas is emerging? If he is our third down back we are definitely going to raise the Lombardi
Another thing …. I want this management, this team these coaches to feel like they are inadequate the worst thing is to go into a season overconfident and we are anything but that
Pretty obvious this was coming. BBK too it seemed.
😞
Huge losses. I was anticipating Ursua and Ben really contributing to the playoff run. Ok sorry about that, my sarcastic attitude is overwhelming me
What the heck, what happened to proof reading
The assumptions have been confirmed as Seattle Seahawks wife receiver John Ursua announced on an Instagram Live earlier today that he has torn his left ACL.
Ursua was potential all pro wife receiver
This is my shocked face
I would have cut him in half time. He was awful.
I was at the game last night, and actually left early. Never done that at a hawks game, but I had seen enough.
I think as a fan, I’m at the point where the enjoyment this year from following the team isn’t going to rest upon winning a superbowl. I’d have to be naive in the 1st degree to think that’s gonna happen. It’s what I really want, but it isn’t in the cards. Id be surprised if it’s in the cards for the next 5 seasons. Between ownership, coaching, roster construction, new cheap talent vs old expensive talent, depth. Its just gonna take some fairytale good fortune for the team to go all the way. If im gonna watch this team and walk away 2 hours later feeling like I enjoyed myself, then I have to lower my expectations of walking away with a win every week. I want that, but ill be more disappointed than pleased if thats my mindset. The wins will feel cheap, and the losses feel grindingly miserable. Im looking at this team as a bad team, so at least i can enjoy the plays that go well, and can be pleasantly surprised when we get a W.
Otherwise, I’ll just be stuck moping about that doom and gloom. I’m just gonna focus on the guys who step up. It was fun seeing Ballore out there. You expect nothing out of a guy like that, but he made some fun plays. Brooks made some nice ones too. Anyways, I’ll enjoy pondering how to get this team into position to really make a run, but on gameday, i think i need to table that and just try to enjoy the smaller things.
Today I started asking myself this: what has to happen this year for the Hawks to contend for a championship? Here’s a list, in no particular order.
1. No significant injuries to Wilson, Carson, Brown, Lewis, Shell, Metcalf on offense
2. Lockett, Pocic, Eskridge and D.J. Reed make quick recoveries from current injuries.
3. No significant injuries to Wagner, Dunlap, Adams, Diggs, Brooks on defense.
4. Either Darrell Taylor or Alton Robinson becomes a regular threat as an Edge rusher, bookending with Dunlap.
5. The Seahawks sign KJ Wright to start at SAM.
6. Gerald Everett becomes a regular threat at TE.
7. Shane Waldron makes the Seahawks’ offense unpredictable and explosive. Seahawks finish with a top-10 offense.
8. The team pass rush finishes in the top half of the league on sacks and pressures.
9. Dee Eskridge develops into a useful slot receiver and dependable #3 option.
10. Witherspoon and Reed are serviceable as starting corners.
I’m willing to presume that #1 – #3 happen, even though Adams seems injury-prone. I’m willing to assume #7 happens as well. Maybe even #9. I just have a hard time with the rest.
I would love for this team to recapture past magic and attitude, and really challenge for a title. And I know preseason doesn’t matter, but doesn’t it seem like the team is just…lethargic? My gut tells me we go 10-7, and possibly getting a #7 seed before getting creamed in the wildcard round.
What do you guys think?
I’m less bullish on the injury situation than you, especially as it concerns Adams.
I think there’s a chance #4 happens with Alton but not Taylor.
Duane must be in for game 1 for Waldron to make a difference. All the scheming in the world won’t matter if your QB is under pressure consistently.
10-7 and a first round exit for me too.
Winning the division is all that matters. Just ask Pete
My hopes for a good season largely swing based on work to the roster after cuts. Time of possession and turn over battle is where it’s at for me. The Hawks for a period of years have been incapable of running the clock, slowing down the game and keeping the defense fresh, even back when they had a stellar roster. Part of this is the out of structure style Wilson has, but plenty of blame has to go to the coaches for not forcing a more consistent 3-7 yards a play, instead it’s no gain, sack, 30 yard sideline throw with a circus catch toe tap, followed bye 2 runs for a total of three yards, and a screen for -1 yard before a punt. I hope the offense starts slow, even struggles as it resists the urge to go back to what’s gone on for the last decade, then building to its peak efficiency late season/playoffs. Something more like the old Hawks offense with Hassellbeck, methodical, attacking all over the field, in rhythm, balanced, and most importantly eating that game clock and exhausting their defense rather than our defense being on the field 2/3 of the time.
Yeah, agree. The huge question looming is, how do you want to control the clock, if your run game sucks? When you are unable to make screen plays? When slot and intermediate passing isn’t even barely used?
All we do is run-pass-pass and run-run-pass. Predictable as hell. And bound to fail against competent defenses.
This is an offense, that was exposed second half of the season. If RW doesn’t reinvent himself, there is no guarantee for a winning record.
Trey Lance looking rather erratic so far this pre-season.
You’re right. But he also has some good moments. Not unusual for a rookie.
Rob, have you watched any of Trey Lance? What do you think of him so far? I’m watching the 49ers/Chargers game and he finished 8/14 for 102 yards and 2/1 TD/INT. He had a rough start, throwing a bad INT on a high fastball that bounced off the receiver but he seemed to have settled down. His second TD was a beauty looking away the safety and then throwing a dart for a TD. He’s also making players with his legs. I think he’s going to be a handful for the Hawks. I hope I’m wrong.
Been a while since I chimed in…
For ten months, I’ve been on team ‘Don’t resign KJ. Move on’. I like to think I can admit when I’m wrong. I was wrong.
They have no LB depth. By this point, Barton had to show he can be a guy. He can’t. He’s barely a depth piece ST guy. Get a deal worked out with KJ. Can the sides agree on $4m, play 40-50% of the snaps, with the added bonus of awesome locker room presence?
“The end product is a top-heavy roster that relies on star players to cover coaching, development and depth warts. And this pre-season, we’re seeing the roster ruthlessly exposed.” Couldn’t agree more. The NFL season is a war of attrition and without RW, DK, Bobby, Jamal, et al., this is clearly a mediocre team. But to add a little perspective: Tampa Bay just got embarrassed at home by the Titans 34-3. The Bucs sat all their stars: Brady, RJII, Brown, Evans, Godwin, Vea, Davis, White, Winfield Jr., and most of their starting O-line. Of course, compared to Seattle, Tampa Bay’s drafting and development have been superb, and their focus on the trenches is something most of us here probably look upon with envy. Still, what would their roster look like without its loaded top end? Probably a lot like this middling Seahawks squad.
Well, if we’re talking about perspective, the Buccs just won the Super Bowl.
So it’s pretty understandable when we treat their pre-season losses a bit differently. I also think it’s a tough sell to compare the state of their roster to Seattle’s.
Yet, who’s to say they won’t have a crap season? Wouldn’t be the first time after winning a title that happened.
Biggest difference between the 2 franchises imo is the Bucs D in comparison to Seattle’s. Their D is why they won it all last year despite Brady getting the stupid media’s attention (QBs do sell tho). He was quite mediocre in the post season actually. Their D consistently pressures QBs, something the Seahawks have to try to manufacture by trading for a blitzing Safety. Defense keeps you in all games without ever having to press offensively which often leads to mistakes and their D kept them in games in the playoffs last year despite his mistakes (interceptions).
Geno Atkins visiting Hawks today per Rapoport.
This makes me happy! I think he would be a very welcomed addition to our DT rotation.
Yes please!
Does this mean Nkemdiche doesnt look good? Would love Atkins but would hate to see Mone lose his spot, seems promising.
I think it speaks more broadly to the lack of talent on D-line. Several good not great players that have little chance of disrupting the game. Not saying Geno coming off injury is an upgrade, but Hawks recognize they need to add some talent.
Absolutely yes.
Nkemdiche hasn’t been able to practice in two weeks.
He’s probably bound for the practice squad at best.
Mone isn’t going anywhere.
Might I ask why? He’s only 25, which is a plus, and he’s cheap, but has he been anything more than just a guy?
Sure.
He had several good games last year. Low 80’s graded by PFF.
He’s shown occasional quickness to get into the backfield and disrupt – at 360lbs (he’s down to 345 now). There is intriguing potential there that Al Woods doesn’t have.
And cheap is an understatement. His 2021 salary doesn’t currently place him in the top 51 to count towards the salary cap. Not only will the Hawks gain cap room by cutting whoever is above him on the list, they’ll be getting a middle of the defense presence for pennies on the dollar.
I scoffed at PC giving him a roster spot and a bigger role based on about 90 or so NFL snaps the prior year. I’m happy to be proven wrong. He’s a good find.
Appreciate it. I hope Nkemdiche makes the roster, personally. I know he hasn’t done squat, but he has the same cap number as Mone, I love the energy he brings, and the potential is off the charts. I’d rather let Woods go.
They have flexibility there. Woods has no guaranteed salary.
I could easily see Nkemdiche cut and signed to the PS, and once he gets healthy he exhausts his 2 callups quickly and the Hawks have to make a decision.
Is it the same as last year, where guys from the PS can play then go back to PS without having to clear waivers? I thought that was a great change.
Also, with Lattimore being released, I’m wondering if they like what they have seen out of Hewitt.
yes
Atkins has lifetime NFL earnings of $95 million. So presumably he doesn’t need the money. What’s his motivation? Love of the game? Wants to stick it to the Bengals (who gave up on him)? Re-unite with Dunlap? Chasing a ring (or even a winning season)?
Good questions. I also think it’s possible that guys like him just want to play ball as long as their bodies will let them.
He’s had a fantastic career, but I have low expectations that he would be anything other than a DT on passing downs. Perhaps hope he can replace some of Reed’s production.
When you’ve spent your career w the Bengals, coming to a team that always makes the post-season, has a franchise QB still in his prime, and a player-friendly coach/culture…all probably looks pretty good.
I know i’m on the optimistic side, but I think if the CB position doesn’t kill us, and the offense regains it’s groove, we can compete w anyone in the NFC.
The real nice thing is that he’s played with Dunlap. I just hope he’s fit.
And hope he’s healthy.
Now about that center position and those CB positions Pete….
Woo hoo!
This is exactly the kind of thing they need to do, bring in older proven cast off vets to shore up positions on the roster, like CB, DT, OL. This is CAP and roster finesse time.
I’d love to have Geno Atkins at the level that he used to show. That being said, I’d very much rather use a high draft pick for a guy who makes an immediate impact in the OL/DL (D.Lewis level should do, he will only grow from here) than to pay big bucks to a guy who comes after inactivity/injury/surgery. The risk is he busts and you end up playing UDFAs.
Atkins isn’t going to cost us anything but money and CAP space, right?
For me, I see this year as a tipping point year for the franchise. It’s not at all inconceivable that they could finish 3rd in their division and miss out on the playoffs. Or they could barely eke their way into the playoffs as a WC team with little chance to even get to the NFC championship. Either of these scenarios puts RW and the immediate fate of the franchise completely up in the air.
They need to compete this year for a division title, win one playoff game at the very least if not more, and if they don’t my guess that the vultures will begin to circle down around the franchise. Their regular season record the past few years has literally glossed over so many warts on this team.
That’s why they need to do all they can with the CAP to bring in some proven vets so that they have the best possible chance to WIN NOW. This is a win now now year.
PS> I didn’t really address your response about trading draft capital for a proven player. Personally speaking, I don’t want any draft capital mortgaged for this year’s team, at least not a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or possibly even a 5th round pick.
If we don’t deliver this year, and the RW thing becomes a big issue next off-season, we could be facing position some real structural rebuilding. And we’re going to need all the draft capital we can hold onto and possibly accrue for that rebuilding.
Just MO. :0
Just happy they know the defense isnt good enough and are looking at options to improve.
Does anyone have the breakdown of our defenses formations this week (and lasts)?
I want to say I saw a bunch of nickel recently, and I could see a 3-3-5 being our new base D.
Could explain why Alton Robinson and Darryl Taylor are seen as “hybrid” Sams/DEs. With Adams as a hybrid safety/LB, all you have to do is slide hybrid-guys down to change to a 3-4, 4-3, based on situation.
it’s a change of pace from the “base Cover 3” Defense we’ve seen for years, but I am pretty excited to see it on the field with all the 1s out there.
Edit: Just watched the YouTube highlights on the first half.
Noticed a lot of 4-2-5 looks. Taylor and Robinsion were on the line in 3-pt stances, but would drop back into coverage multiple times.
Neal/Amadi (who I assume were playing in Adams role) were all over the place. sometimes at Lb depth, sometimes on the line.
McGough and Lattimore waived.
McGough sure made it easy for them.
That and the two injuries make this round of roster cutdowns (to 80) a lot easier.
I hope we do following before last pre-season game
1) Sign K J Wright
2) Resolve Brown issue
3) Sign Atkins
4) Show some signs that they are looking for a Center
Austin Reiter 29 yo former KC Superbowl starter center is still out there and available – bring him in for a visit asap!
Agreed on Reiter.
As for KJ, I don’t think they would do that until after week 1, if they do at all.
Meh
Oh boy… here we go again.
Hey now, those 10 snaps last year on offense were dynamite. He really knows how to strap his helmet on properly for the victory formation.
And don’t forget he did that while active so Alton could be inactive. Don’t wanna tax a rook you know.
Geno upside comp:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/12thmanrising.com/2019/03/11/seattle-seahawks-15-best-free-agent-acquisitions/amp/6/
John Randle