The Big Russian is heading for the Big Apple
I’m not sure I remember a day like this.
At least not since I started writing about the Seahawks.
When’s the last time multiple players departed this franchise, and it just felt weird?
Think about it. Golden Tate is going to be catching passes from Matthew Stafford.
Not Russell Wilson.
Stafford.
He’s going to be playing in the NFC North. He’s going to be waving at Green Bay defensive backs. He’s going to be making improbable catches as a team mate of Calvin Johnson.
Breno Giacomini is going to be the right tackle of the New York Jets, playing for Rex Ryan.
Chris Clemons — Seattle’s best pass rusher during the Pete Carroll era — is probably going to be finishing his career in Jacksonville.
Like I said, weird.
And Red Bryant isn’t going to be wearing a Seahawks jersey any more…
It all kind of doesn’t feel right.
It feels dirty. Unclean.
These are our guys.
Clemons symbolised everything this front office achieved in the early days. They found a player with an edge, who fit their scheme and became a star when nobody else really wanted him.
Big Red was the leader in the dressing room. The father figure. The inspiration.
Tate was an early draft pick who epitomised this teams ability to get under an opponents skin. To really piss off the opposition and their fans.
Giacomini just loved to smack people around. And he did it well.
A significant chunk of Seattle’s soul just left the building.
I’ve skimmed through some of the reaction on Twitter. It’s a mix of extremes.
On the one hand, some people are upset key players are moving on. They want to know why they didn’t make more of a push to re-sign Tate. They wonder how this team will be able to replace two or three key starters.
Others have unwavering faith in the front office and their ability to make replacements. Piece of cake. No worries.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Losing important players isn’t the end of the world. It happens to all of the good teams.
But replacing them isn’t easy, either.
Unlike the 49ers, they don’t have a treasure trove of draft picks. They’ve only got two picks during the first two days of the draft.
They also have to make better use of their early picks.
In fact the Seahawks have to make this years first round pick at #32 their best since 2010.
James Carpenter (2011) hasn’t worked out as planned. His position on the roster is probably only secure because of the lack of depth on the offensive line right now. He’s played inconsistent football, he’s been injured and he’s struggled to nail down a starting spot.
Bruce Irvin (2012) was drafted to be the ‘ideal LEO’ and yet after one year he was moved to linebacker where he had an unspectacular first season. He’s 27 this year.
Last year the Harvin trade provided a minimal regular season impact while Christine Michael, a second round pick, barely saw the field. He might have the most breakout potential according to Carroll, but how realistic is that while Marshawn Lynch remains the bell cow?
If they keep hitting on late round picks, great. This is a deep draft. They might find a starter or two later on.
But how likely is it that they keep doing that consistently?
The Seahawks need to start hitting with these early picks. Whoever they take at #32 — in a deep, talented draft — needs to have an impact.
Here are the biggest needs right now, as we close out day two of free agency:
— Wide receiver
— Offensive line (tackle & guard)
— Defensive line
I suspect they’ll continue to hunt for defensive linemen in free agency. The re-signing of Tony McDaniel retains some consistency there. That’s a big bonus.
I’ve soured a little on Jared Allen following his near threat of ‘pay me or I’ll retire’. He’s a good player, but I don’t think you need to be held to ransom like that.
If Allen wants to play for a contender and win, do it and take what’s on offer. If you want to retire, do that. It’s pretty simple.
Jason Hatcher had his visit in Seattle but appears set to move on to other teams. He could be expensive for a rotational cog.
In the end the best thing might be to bring in some lesser known depth and roll with Benson Mayowa, Greg Scruggs, Mike Brooks and co.
It’s a stretch to think you can replace a veteran like Clemons on the cheap, but the options in free agency aren’t exactly of the Avril and Bennett variety this year.
It’s a poor draft for pass rushers. I’m willing to think the top two picks (#32 & #64) are being saved for a receiver and a tackle.
That’s the strength of this draft class anyway.
And the relative lack of urgency in trying to keep Tate and Giacomini could be a sign of Seattle knowing exactly who they want from a group of 3-4 players at each pick.
Losing Giacomini creates a debate we need to have going forward. What do you do at right tackle? Do you draft a player early to fill that role, knowing you’ve failed once to draft a right tackle in round one (Carpenter)?
Or do you trust an Alvin Bailey or Michael Bowie to earn that spot?
We’ve talked a lot about Joel Bitonio recently. He can play tackle. He excelled as a blind side blocker for Nevada.
Yet physically and on tape you can’t help but make the comparison to Logan Mankins. If he has the potential to be a ten year starter at guard and play at a similar level to Mankins, wouldn’t he be wasted at right tackle?
Who’s the last great right tackle the NFL has celebrated? I’m sure you can name at least 4-5 left guards.
If you did draft Bitonio (or someone else) to play tackle — what happens at guard? Do you simply continue the rotation from last year? Do you challenge a Bowie or Bailey to earn the left guard spot?
It’s a great draft for receivers, but what are the options going to be at #32 and #64?
We know Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans will be long gone. I’d expect Odell Beckham Junior, Brandin Cooks, Marqise Lee and Kelvin Benjamin to also be off the board.
Are you willing to gamble on a Martavis Bryant or Brandon Coleman in round one?
Perhaps not.
And yet at #64 there’s at least some chance those players will be gone. Others — such as Allen Robinson, Jordan Matthews, Paul Richardson, Davante Adams and Jarvis Landry — will either be off the board or don’t really fit Seattle’s penchant for big plays and winning the red line.
The more I think about it, the more I think Bryant could be a legitimate option for Seattle. Tall, fast with all the physical tools. He’s a better fit for the Seahawks than the Clemson offense. But the character concerns and attitude are a worry.
Would he make it to #64? Doubtful. Unless the red flags are a major turn off — which begs the question — would you even want him in that situation?
He at least shows some evidence of making the most of his athletic talent. The more Donte Moncrief I watch, the more frustrated I get.
They need to replace depth in multiple areas so it wouldn’t be a big shock to see them move down once or even twice from #64.
If that happens, they’ll have to make it work better than their last move from round two back into round three.
In 2011 they essentially passed up the chance to draft Randall Cobb and Justin Houston to move down and grab the now retired John Moffitt.
The biggest concern for me is the offense. The defense still has the L.O.B. — it has Bennett and Avril, the linebackers and the opportunity for further additions in free agency.
On offense there’s increased pressure on Percy Harvin to stay healthy (that would exist anyway with a team-high $13.4m cap hit in 2014), the offensive line is going to get younger and will be tested, while there’s also the possibility of swapping out Zach Miller for Jermichael Finley.
Lynch is a year older.
It’s nothing a good draft can’t solve. But they probably need to hit on those early picks in a way they haven’t done since 2010.
as far as a LEO, can you see Bruce Moving back there, and a LB core or Smith, Wagner, and Wright?
maybe PC/JS imagined this all along ( i doubt it but it sounds good lol) move irving to LB so he can improve on his run defense, then when we cut clemons, he will be ready to fill commons spot and clemons was really good at pass rush and run stopping/ setting the edge. do you think thats what they some what envisioned?
I think Dan Quinn has already stated in an interview they will not be moving Irvin back to the LEO.
Quinn also said in that interview that the SAM and LEO positions are essentially the same, implying that Irvin could play both spots. Also, with Clemons still on the team, I’m sure he didn’t want to step on any toes. Regardless, I like Bennett as a big, run-stopping LEO on early downs before he moves inside in the nickel package. 5T: Scruggs 1T: Mebane 3T: McDaniel LEO: Bennett in the base. LE: Avril LT: Bennett RT: Hill RE: Irvin in the nickel.
Irvin wasn’t tough enough to play LEO. You need to be a junk yard dog for that position. He is better as a linebacker.
He surely wasn’t worth the pick we spent on him, same for all our hi picks the last 3 years
Not so fast my friend. I have read a few redrafts and Irvin has been more productive than a lot of first rounders in that draft. For what Seattle has gotten from him compared to other first round picks that year, he was chosen about right.
what % of the defensive snaps did he play last year?
The cap giveth and the cap taketh away…the game is rigged to stop dynasties…just imagine how hard it will be for us to compete when Thomas, Sherm and Wilson all need to be paid…the meek shall inherit the earth – god only knows – the Hawks won’t be able to to… at least not with the cap.
Agreed. It will be difficult. They are already deciding who stays and who goes. Tate at 6.1 a year is to expensive. Breno, Maragos, McDonald arent good enough to retain with limited funds. Red and Clem are on the decline and expensive. For me Baldwin would be the choice to retain. It would have been great to keep both, but the market for Tates services was to high, much higher than anticipated.
In future years there will be more painful cuts and non-extensions. Next year will probably see Lynch and Miller cut with Avril not extended, but at least they will sign Sherm, ET and Wilson to go along with Harvin and Bennett and Okung.
Eventually we will have to pay Baldwin 4+ million
Yes and they should. I think Bobby Wagner would be another candidate for extension eventually, and I think more talent will emerge from inactive or redshirted players as well.
There will be more difficult decisions in the years to come. The Hawks are set up to keep the core together…some All-Pro guys. We, as fans, have learned some things about how much money Sherm and Earl are likely worth, with Revis getting $12 mil and Byrd $9 mil per. This should be about what our 2 all-pros will command, which doesn’t break the bank with the cap rising $10 mil each of the next 2 years. Wilson will stay. Wagner’s future seems a bit uncertain, but he’ indispensable IMO. It’s the win forever philosophy, along with the obvious track record of success, that has me believing a dynasty isn’t out of the question.
I think Wagner is a big piece to our D as well. His speed at MLB is insane and he’s a tackling machine. The only other MLB I’d rather have then him is Luke Kuechly. Hopefully they’ll be able to keep Wagner long term.
Wagner is a big piece of our D. Luckily he is a linebacker too. The market for linebackers and runningbacks is really small these days, so I think we could keep Wagner on a reasonable deal (and probably KJ Wright too…but getting all three with Malcolm is probably too much to expect).
The cap giveth and the cap taketh away. But that can be counteracted by the draft (which theoretically should only giveth). If you continue to draft really well you can become a dynasty. Pay your studs and supplement with really good draft picks and then filling in holes (caused by misses in the draft or just by lack of talent in drafts) with free agents. Dynastys can happen – but it MUST start with drafting well.
Good article Rob.
It does feel wierd that so many good players have voluntaraly moved on. I mean, who would want to leave an organization like the Seahawks? Win Forever, the best managment, best fans, etc. We are not used to a Seattle team having so much talent that the starters and the backups are being pursued by so many teams. It comes with the territory of being a SB winner.
I’ll wait to see the finished product….but so far I am not impressed.
Ye of little faith. I’m sure that’s not the first time you’ve uttered those words in the PC/JS era.
The draft is by far the biggest piece of “Win Forever”..you supplement holes with FA, but in the age of the salary cap FA’s is a very risky business as you almost always have to over pay for top talent and getting bargain deals on less sought after players is also risky because you aren’t sure if they will sufficiently fill a hole.
I’m waiting till after preseason game #4 before I make a first impression.
Too early.
To be honest I am scared for offense, WR and the line specifically. Some low risk moves for a wr word be nice. Especially since it will be a couple years to see our drafted receiver begin to get the nuances of the pro game. Shoot even a britt, or 35 year old smith would be a nice move.
“Losing Giacomini creates a debate we need to have going forward. What do you do at right tackle? Do you draft a player early to fill that role, knowing you’ve failed once to draft a right tackle in round one (Carpenter)?”
I have to say, I don’t see it as much of a debate really. The situations were totally different and not applicable.
In 2011, we needed bodies. We didn’t even have camp bodies. We were desperate. And the OL class that year was probably the absolute worst in the last 10 year period between 2004 to 2014. Bad situation to be in.
Saying we failed once implies we will fail again. Or that we didn’t know what we were doing when we took Carpenter and then moved back and picked an equally unimpressive guard. I don’t think that’s the case at all. And I don’t see it as indicative that we don’t know OL talent. Any more than failing on 4th round fliers on WR indicates we can’t evaluate WR talent. The reality is, players at that range fail more often than not. And for sure high risk/poor producing athletic monsters are even more likely to fail. Simple probability would account for failing on Durham and Harper.
Bryant, to me, is an Durham/Harper type of pick. A guy who really is so fraught with risk. A player who has no demonstrated ability other than athletic prowess. This draft is too deep to basically risk probably — not possibly — having a guy we can’t even keep on the roster with a pick that high. There are too many good prospects to go for a 5th round flyer type pick hoping for a home run.
Seattle has clearly shown it knows OL talent. Okung, Sweezy, Bowie and Bailey attest to that. Breno was another guy claimed off the scrap heap. Seattle hasn’t really missed on many guys — probably not even half our picks. I’m inclined to see 2011’s bad OL draft for what it was. An instance where need was so far divorced from available talent that we had to go home with the two bagger.
With Tate’s departure, I think the ‘big receiver or bust’ mentality can now go away. This draft has far more talent of the Z variety. We are no longer simply looking for a red line winner. We have roughly equal need of both. Guys we’ve generally dismissed due to lack of need thus far now come into the picture. Harvin, and the history backs this, cannot be expected to play a full season. So now we are missing Tate and whatever games Harvin is going to miss. We need a Z/Slot guy every bit as much as an X. And the right talent/pick fit is a Z in the 25 to 45 range of this draft.
I’m not implying they’ll fail again. It’s more about drafting a right tackle in the first round. I’m struggling to think of the last time a team succeeded doing that.
Run through the list. Carpenter, Carimi, Otah… it’s just not a position that requires top level investment.
And it’s also very difficult to project right tackles at the next level.
I’ve never ever been a fan of going RT in round one. But now it’s one big old need.
There are a host of guys taken in the top 64
1. Anthony Davis (11)
2. Gosder Cherilus (17)
3. DJ Fluker (11)
4. Mike Adams (56)
5. Kelechi Osemele (60)
6. Bryan Bulaga (23)
7. Lane Johnson (4)
8. Sebastian Vollmer (58)
9. Khalif Barnes (52)
10. Orlando Franklin (46)
11. Amini Silatolu (40)
Now not all of these guys are world beaters. But most of the top 10 RTs in the game are all picked within the top 64. I expect our local view of where to get RTs is tainted by the 2011 experience. Overall, getting a good RT means spending the draft stock to get them.
And honestly, I see the NFL really beginning to accentuate the need for teams to have two good tackles. As more teams seek and are successful at acquiring their bookend pass rushers — the OL talent is going to have to match. Additionally for Seattle, with the expected featuring of 3 wide formations and the apparent trivializing of our blocking TE capability — our RT is going to be left exposed in every way that our LT is. Having 2 is going to be very important. Especially since all of our division opponents have pairs of pass rushing ends.
Our RT can’t be a scrub. Not if we look at how we are moving personnel wise and offensive scheme wise.
And my apologies. I wasn’t putting the implication in your mouth. I was more referring to the general debate which has been raised consistently here and elsewhere since 2011. How many times have we seen “Pete and John can’t evaluate X position”? Until Wilson — we heard this how many times about the QB position because we went with plan C options like Whitehurst and Jackson?
I think there is plenty of evidence that quality RTs generally take quality of picks. I don’t think it’s any different than any other position.
Not sure that list counters the view that drafting RT’s in round one hasn’t come with much success over the years. We don’t really know the long term prospects of Johnson or Fluker. Bulaga is average, while Cherilus was a bust IMO. Davis is the only one who has had success and that’s with a top-12 pick. And Seattle aren’t picking that early.
Losing Tate and Giacommin was huge. On the line we go from having Bowie available to challenge Carp for the LG spot to needing him to excel at RT. This is no longer an option. Bailey is now the challenger. There is no backup for any of the O Line spots other than center with Jean Pierre. Hautpmann better be able to step in. At WR, we have the same situation. We cannot count on Harvin being an every down WR. Kearse has to fill Tate’s spot. We are still short a No #1 WR.
Does anyone know how much cap space we have?
Could we Draft Bitonio in Rnd 1 and Coleman in Rnd 2, have Bitonio, Bowie and Bailey all compete for the RT spot, and the best of the three starts at RT, while the other two play LG and RG? Best case scenario – the line looks like this: Okung, Bitonio, Unger, Bowie, Bailey – with maybe Bowie and Bailey switching around. That’s a pretty decent line. Bowie and Bailey both got better as the season went on. Maybe next year we can draft a real RT.
Coleman would have to be coached up to start, but we have Russell Wilson and Pete Carroll – we can coach up anyone! Especially with somebody with the physical gifts like Coleman. It would be nice to get a dude for Russell Wilson to groom.
The other draft picks are going to have to be depth unless somebody falls.
I like that approach because there are other players that should be available later. For example, Cody Hoffman.
Don’t think Sweezy is going to lose his starting job next year at RG.
Someone for RW to groom: I think that is an enormous factor. Tate floundered to fulfill his lofty potential for the first couple years. Not gonna be like that with RW at the helm. He will make the next young WR prospect great and do it fast. I think RW is the biggest factor in Kearse’s emergence. He believes in other people’s upside and gets them to believe in it too. And then all the work ethic and intangibles rub off. RW has the Greatness factor and would be great at anything…he just happens to be our QB!
Rob,
To me this article overstates our losses.
In essence we lost two key guys. The losses on defense can be absorbed by depth.
Tate WR
The Russian RT
This draft is deep and specifically so in two areas.
WR
OT
We also have a few young guys who are both versatile and can compete/offer depth at T and G in Bailey and Bowie.
The trio at WR of Harvin, Kearse, Baldwin is pretty good but we lack some serious depth.
I think we need to sign 2 OL, 2 WR, 1 LB, 1 CB, 1 Blocking TE and BPA in free agency this draft.
Yes I know that doesn’t fill our holes at LEO or add any DL depth. I think we have that on our roster and need to fill the LEO with an underappreciated value in FA.
Don’t think that the depth at those 2 positions didn’t factor into us letting them go too.
Your double negative comment is throwing me off. What are you saying?
Are you saying you think the depth in the draft may be why we were willing to let those two guys go? If so. yes, I agree that could have factored into it. They probably also knew they cant afford to pay Harvin, Tate, and Baldwin. Chose Harvin and Baldwin.
I wouldn’t say it overstates the loss. They have to replace those guys — and the draft isn’t a sure thing.
At receiver they’ve lost Tate and Rice. Baldwin is a free agent next year. Harvin has to be considered an injury concern — he needs to prove he can stay healthy on $13.4m.
They need to make this happen in the draft.
Draft will be big, it always is but when we got no starters out of last draft and lost a bunch of starters in this draft it will be more important then ever I don’t think you can possibly undersell the importance of the the draft this year.
We got starting quality players but they rode the pine because of how good our team is across the board.
Our second and third round guys were buried beneath the RB and DL depth. Bust on the fourth round, two unknown quantities in the fifth round, Willson and then two OL in free agency and 7th who will be key in our success this year.
Christine micheal probably won’t contribute any more then Turbin did barring an injury, maybe Jordan hill steps up and fills mcdonalds shoes maybe not… Luke Wilson has lots of potential, we have no idea how good simon is …. Bowie and Bailey might be starting caliber… We need more from this draft.
No worries mate. Locking down the left guard by drafting Bitonio at #32 solves the first big question mark going forward. NE laid the blueprint for success the same way after their Super Bowl victory; by protecting the young franchise QB from pass rush up the middle for a decade.
Bowie/Bailey can platoon the RT if absolutely necessary. And you never know who we might find as middle/late round OLine gems this time around. I sure thought we might be able to keep Breno after Tate’s cap $ went to Detroit. But it looks to me like its destined for signing Doug Baldwin instead. We’re still good. But you are right, we need to hit on these early draft picks. For certain.
So if we are drafting LG in the first round and both Bitonio and XSF are on the board, which do you take?
We should stick to the original plan of WR and right tackle first two rounds. Then pick up another tackle late rounds. Then We have plenty of players to compete for spots on the line. And we won’t be any worse off then we were for half of last yeAr.
Not sure why they let Clemons go unless they are planning to pay for a couple free agents. Still hoping we can get him back at cheaper rate.
Must really feel mayoya can step up or a free agent will come in.
I don’t know why, but I have no faith in Mayowa. Wish I did. If they do though that is all that counts obviously
I didn’t see a whole lot of athleticism from him. There’s not much tape on him out there.
He looked plenty athletic in the preseason last year. To me it just looks like he needed to put on a few pounds to anchor against the run. Plenty athletic to pass rush especially with speed.
Moyowa attended an open tryout and was very impressive as an athlete. They liked his work in camp well enough to not expose him to transactions that would have resulted in losing him.
There are preseason games though. That’s probably the most relevant information (more recent = better).
Agreed, I have no faith in Mayowa either.
If by no faith you mean he hasn’t yet proven himself in regular season games, you will always have no faith in guys they are bringing in initially. Not all of them will succeed but the track record is that most of them will.
We’re not expected to have that. Any more than when Thurmond or Maxwell were elevated. Or Bowie. Or Malcolm Smith.
There is a reason we kept him around at the expense of other players. I expect Pete has high designs for Mayowa.
His production vanished when they put him in early vs the 1’s. And his only thing is speed. Hopefully, he has worked to develop some power, more moves and violent hands. I cannot see him playing the run at near Clemons level.
Who’s original plan? :/
Hehe, even if SeahawksDraftBlog commenters come to consensus, it means zero–Seahawks brass will draft the guys that are ranked highest on their board when their picks come up, or trade down if they like an offer.
Could have kept any one of those guys, had we so desired. For that reason I fall in the ‘not too concerned’ category. I think Pete and John have a plan, and aren’t going to retain guys and spend cap money just for the sake of it.
As of this writing, we have around 17 million in cap space. We can still make a splash or two in the FA market. We should also roll some cap money over for next year, when the real fun begins.
Like last year we could just wait for the dust to settle and get a couple impact players on team friendly deals. There are some big veteran names out there that could play big roles…Allen, Peppers and Smith to name a few. The Hawks will be just fine for now, with a future just as bright!
Paying miller 11 mill last year was a huge mistake. With how soft the fa market was.. That was the time to make him redo his deal
There is no *making* players redo their deals. You can threaten to cut them if they don’t but they can always respond that they are not interested in taking pay cuts or restructuring.
Excellent response. I feel like people gravitate towards “restructuring” way too much just because it’s the “win-win” scenario of keeping a good player, but at a reduced and more “market” price. However, in the real world the players are trying to make as much money as possible and the teams are trying to assemble as much talent as possible for as cheap as possible. Conflicting interests means that these “win-win” scenarios aren’t always possible. Especially when both player and team have similar leverage.
Eric decker gets less than golden. Also, the raiders must have read your blog yesterday rob… Buyers remorse on saffold
Never mind, bad math, decker got 7mill a year
Jets are a hard sell, they are paying a premium. They will regret that sign probably as soon as next off season.
The jets won’t be the only one that regret that signing. Decker probably just took the biggest deal, but sometimes you have to count in the probability of playing out that whole deal. With Geno at the helm Deckers numbers are going to tank (even if he plays well) and low numbers aren’t what you want out of a $7M per year player (again, even if he plays well).
Good receivers can definitely help out a QB and make him better. But some QBs just can’t be helped. I honestly think Geno is one of those QBs.
The Raiders are embarrassing themselves. Again.
Reggie McKenzie is smarter than this. I thought he would turn around that franchise. Now I think Mark Davis is another Jerry Jone-type owner who thinks he knows better than his FO. So sad for Raider Nation.
Hi Rob
What are your thoughts on Dee Ford and Newsome from Ball State as possible LEOs?
We still have maybe 15 mil of available cap. I like Hill and Brooks to replace some of that interior pass rush we lose with McDonald. McDaniel can play the 3 and 5Tech as can Scruggs to make up for Bryant. We will see what Williams can bring in pre seasons kind of a wild card. I still think we spend some money on O Line. Lets Extend Earl Sherman and Baldwin. LEO and RT seem to be the biggest question marks at this time.
I’ve not spent much time on Newsome. Ford is a marginal player IMO, a mid rounder you put in a rotation with zero reliance. I prefer Marcus Smith and Demarcus Lawrence.
I agree on Ford – he is Dion Jordan part 2 – and he will be overdrafted
That 15 million will dry up awful quick once we sign Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas to extensions. Plus, there really isn’t anyone notable on the FA at OL. The tackles have all been picked up at hefty prices.
That $15M won’t necessarily dry up if we sign Richard and Earl to extensions. The club can easily make a contract extension for Earl that has about the same cap hit as he would on his current deal this year, and you could make a similar structure for Richard (although he’s paid so low currently, you’d have to go up a bit from his current number). They don’t necessarily need to have cap hits of $10M and $12M respectively (for 2014).
I think js/PC draft 2 their strength …dline. Mayb nix frm nd in the 1st. I expect them to go wr m end 2-4. They’ve been building this o line 4 years, so I don’t see them drafting any position except playmakers ie touchdowns and turnovers.
I think its more accurate so say they draft to their weak points, i.e. they rate all of their players on their roster versus the ratings of draft prospects. Then their board reflects the differences and they draft the largest gains. By that measure, they are likely to draft a lineman – offense or defense, WR, or TE.
Woah woah woah. Are you saying drafting DL is a PC/JS strength? I think a lot of people here would probably count that it appears to be their biggest “weakness” (and by weakness I mean the fewest number of successes compared to total number drafted). If you are saying DL is a strength of the team then I absolutely agree.
Forget about Nix though. He doesn’t even remotely fit into our scheme (which is primarily a 4-3) because he’s a clogger nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme (not to mention he isn’t a Seahawky prospect at all anyways).
They have been building the OL for 4 years, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a complete product. They just lost BG for goodness sakes! Not to mention issues at RG and the injury bug that seems to follow Okung. I’m not saying that they will definitely take an OL early and will not take a DL early, but I think with the strength of this drafting being at OL and WR, those are “more likely” to be seen as early picks.
I don’t know much about Taylor Price, but if he was on their draft board, there is potential there. This whole Tate thing doesn’t make sense. His words…”I love Seattle, honestly, I would rather take a little less to be happy and win ball games than to take way more and go to a crappy city where the fans don’t give a crap about the team.” Have fun in Detroit Tate, enjoy the playoffs on TV. I wish we played the Lions next year, would love to see Kam flatten you.
If anybody can benefit from a 1-2 year prove it deal in Seattle, it’s gotta be Henry Melton.
Tate is getting paid and he deserves it. Dude is going to put up big numbers with the Lions. Depending on how the rest of the offseason and draft I think Detroit isn’t to be written out of the playoffs.
Melton would thrive in that Dline rotation!
Very harsh on Tate.
Agreed!!!
It is a bit harsh, but Tate DID the exact opposite of what he said he was going to do. No one made him offer the statements he made and of course wWe don’t know the Seahawks offer. But he took more money to play in a crappy city with a team that will struggle to make the playoffs. Jim Caldwell is a less than inspiring coaching hire, the roster is questionable. Playing opposite Calvin will be fun I’m sure, but Detroit is literally the crappiest city in the NFL.
Yes Jake, and that was my point. He opened his mouth and showed the city of Seattle no respect. Normally I wouldn’t care if anybody wanted to get their due. But not in this situation.
Lions have a decent roster, primarily lacking a pro-bowl caliber CB or S. Their biggest problem is, was, and most likely will continue to be coaching. Of course the city and fan base leave a lot to be desired.
You can expect that players will do the same thing you would do; they act in their own/families best interest. If you had an opportunity to do the same work and receive twice the compensation, it is unlikely you turn it down no matter what you may have said prior to the opportunity.
I don’t agree with the vitriol.
Look, it isn’t like this wasn’t a foreseeable development. There were plenty of people posting here who offered the notion that we should have extended Tate last year as it looked like he was emerging. We had that option. But didn’t do it.
If anything, it underscores the same potential we have here right now. Extensions could be made for Maxwell and Sherman (’15 UFAs). We could extend Thomas. Extend Wright. Extend Malcolm Smith. These are all guys in the same situation Tate was in last offseason.
It is within the team’s ability to prevent these losses. We instead opted to sign Avril and Bennett. And I consider that a tradeoff that was entirely worth it.
The question is, with cap room now, are there UFAs out there worth a similar trade off. I would say no. And I would say we’d be better off securing some ’15 UFAs to longer deals with the excess cap space we have. Otherwise, figure we are in essence trading a Henry Melton or Jared Allen for Maxwell and Wright. We need to spend the cap space wisely. And we could easily extend our guys, giving them up front money so that we aren’t against the cap in 2015.
We have a lot of talent coming due for Tate style paydays next year. We should spend our reserves today to avoid mega losses in 2015.
It’s not always in the teams ability to prevent the losses. Maxwell could easily turn down an extension this offseason because he wants to gamble on himself this upcoming year and make a whole lot more money in the 2015 free agency because he’ll have an extra year of being a dominant starter under his belt.
That’s true. But the ability to extend means you are spreading the delta between what he might get over an extra year.
If he signs for 5 million in 2015 for what is essentially a 3 year deal (4th being the team’s out year), then signing him to a similarly structured contract at 3.5 million means that he gets an additional 3 million in 2014. Essentially his earning potential for waiting and risking injury until 2015 doesn’t even out in terms of earnings until 2017.
The advantage being he gets his money now. Guarantees now. And also is still young enough to merit a good 3rd contract if he remains healthy through 2017. If he waits, not only does he risk injury and getting nothing. But he’s also going to be close to 30 years of age. The market for CBs at that age is pretty lean.
Let’s assume Sherman is going to command 14m per season over a 3 year deal after 2015. Seattle could offer 10 million — meaning 9m difference in 2014 salary. He’s have to play through the 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons before his total earnings exceeded the extension offered in 2014.
It’s a distinct advantage for teams and player to extend rookie deals. Players get their guarantees earlier and a huge bump in salary. Teams get 3+ years of service at below market level rates. And ensures that players get to their third contract at around age 28 — still very attractive on the open market.
I agree with everything you said, but sometimes (even including the delta from the extra year) you just can massively increase your earning potential by waiting for a year. An extreme example of this would be Joe Flacco in 2012. If he signed an extension after the offseason of 11, it would not have even come close to the numbers got after winning the Super Bowl.
Yes, that’s an extreme example because QBs earn so much, but I don’t think what we could offer Maxwell would satisfy him (even though he’d make more this year). He probably think he could earn a $7M+ deal if he goes all Richard Sherman on other teams next year.
Jeremy, I personally think you are an idiot. I do not usually call out people like this, but I believe you are way out of line. Tate was important in bringing Seattle an NFL Championship. He does not deserve what you said. He earned more than that.
In addition, none of us know the entire story. For all we know, the Seahawks may have offered Tate way below market value. In fact, with the tight salary cap and Thomas, Sherman, Wilson coming up, that is likely. It is one thing taking a little less than market value, it is another taking millions below the market.
At least we’re not SF. If I’m a niner fan, which I’m not, and glad I’m not, imagine the prospect of paying Kaepernick 18 million. If he has a season like last year, I would look at that as a 9 or 10 million dollar qb. At least we don’t have those worries with Wilson. Seattle will pay him and gladly pay it. If Kaepernick improves and becomes great, fine for them, he’ll be at market value. But the risk of failure is there and I’d hate that if I were them. Also, Justin Smith will be gone. You don’t replace a guy who is the modern day Howie Long. Bowman may never be the same (unfortunately since he’s such a great player). Aldon Smith, who knows if he falls off the wagon. Willis is aging. They’re starting over in a lot of their secondary. Staley, Davis, Boldin, Gore are all older and closer to the end than the beginning. And the front office is dysfunctional.
I’m glad we have PC and JS running the show and they’ll keep doing what they’re doing. I’d rather have the problem of retaining my talent than begging to find it.
Justin Smith gone soon, I should say.
To Kaeps credit, he is a much better player when they are not playing Seahawks defense. Hes actually very efficient in their run first offense. Undervalueing his efficiency is what people do to RW.
Anyways I think hes a 15 – 18 mill dollar QB in this market. Hes a franchise guy but not a guy you want to spend over 20 mill on.
If you throw out as outliers the Seattle games and the green bay game, I don’t know if the remainder of his performance is all that impressive as a body of work. One can point to his playoff victories, of which there are impressive moments, but he also makes stupid gaffes. The int to Kam was a nice play by Kam, but a more horrible throw by CK.
Physically, he’s easily an 18 mill qb. Mentally, if I were a niner fan I’d want more. Before the NFC championship one of the SF beat writers was on ESPN radio talking about when he started to play better. He said that Roman essentially simplified the offense to where CK does one read and then takes off, and Roman was responsible for designing plays that found the open receiver on the first read. Again, I wouldn’t want to pay that guy 18 million if he’s limiting the playbook.
In the end, they will have to pay him, which is fine by me. I’m much happier with RW and have no second thoughts about the deal he’ll be getting.
Don’t forget Navarro Bowman had a gnarly injury against us in the NFC championship. I never heard a diagnosis, but it certainly looks like an ACL.
I would prefer the 9ers to keep Gore as long as possible. He doesn’t scare me much. Unfortunately they have Marcus Lattimore in the wings waiting to replace him. Dude is a stud and loved him at Carolina. Too bad he plays for the 9ers cuz now I can’t root for him!
Gore doesn’t scare me as much as he used to, but remember it was his run that beat us in the Week 14 game in San Fran (although some of that run was a defense breakdown and bad angle taken by Earl).
Not to mention a blatant Vernon Davis hold on Richard Sherman.
As far as WR goes, I’m not convinced we make that a draft priority. Maybe I’m reading too much into this but with the additions of Price and Matthews, it seems like we could be taking a competition route to filling that fifth WR spot. Bring in another low budget FA, draft a guy in the fifth or sixth, and we have a couple guys in house like Phil Bates and Arceto Clark who could factor in. Its doubtful that any rookie WR will contribute immediately, so relying on competition there might make more sense.
JS has never drafted a WR in the first, and the Packers, where he learned his trade, aren’t known for it either. Given ohr relative success with Baldwin and Kearse, coupled with the vagaries of WR success, I wonder if that is the model for WR acquisition. Much like a MLB bullpen, where the best teams are successful in using roster churn to find nobodies who turn into closers.
Not to say that we wouldn’t take a WR in the first if the right one fell. But I think the goal is to be comfortable enough at each position group to be able to go in any direction with the pick – even QB or CB if your guy is there. And PC has proved that he is comfortable with competition.
Price and Matthews are going to need to prove they’re worthy of making a training camp. If the Seahawks are banking on replacing Tate and Rice with these two guys, that’d concern me.
I suspect that isn’t the case though and we as fans are overstating their presence on the roster. This is a fantastic year for receivers. It simply has to be a priority when you lose two top WR’s and you have this much quality in the class.
And JS does a lot of things differently compared to Green Bay. Ted Thompson doesn’t trade for Percy Harvin. JS does. We read too much into what the Packers did when JS wasn’t making the decisions.
They liked their potential enough to sign them. Sounds like Price just needs to be healthy. Matthews has looked good in Canada, Seahawks have had success from Canada before.
Well obviously they wouldn’t sign them if they didn’t rate them. But there’s a big difference between giving a couple of guys a shot as low end FA’s or future contract players and them actually making a team. Neither player is likely to have much impact on the draft. You don’t pass on a good receiver at #32 or #64 because you have Matthews and Price.
Seahawks are banking on replacing Tate and Rice with Percy Harvin and Jermaine Kearse. Our fifth WR will not be replacing Tate, but rather be playing the Jermaine Kearse role entering 2013. Depth.
Yes, I know Price and Matthews need to prove a lot. Odds are they will suck. But that’s not my point. If you bring in ten guys who have something to prove, odds are one will hit. We’re talking about the fifth WR here – filling that spot through competition – the best of Matthews, Price, Clark, Bates, 5th round WR, veteran trying to rebound, etc. could fill that spot without having to invest a lot of draft capital.
Yes JS does a lot different from Green Bay. One thing he has done the same on is – not drafting WR with high draft picks. So far this regime has been more comfortable churning their way to success – using UDFA (Kearse and Baldwin) and the accumulation of vetarans (BMW), couple with judicious big splashes in FA (Rice, Harvin).
You mention Percy Harvin, but that was a trade. Yeah, Tate was drafted in the second. But that reinforces his learned avoidance of WR. Tate took two years to find success. If he was drafted last year he would have been cut.
Look – a lot of people are clamoring for WR/OL to have priority in this years draft. I think those people are going to be disappointed.
The consensus is that this is a strong WR class. Yet PCJS have shown that they are comfortable going against consensus. I remember in 2012 people were saying the same thing – that we had the opportunity to pick up a great WR. Yet we didn’t draft one. The explanation was – we didn’t think the WR class was all that hot.
I wouldn’t describe it as being comfortable to go against consensus.
They have pioneered an approach and methodology they are very comfortable with, they have had ultimate success with, and other teams are now copying.
The talent at WR in 2012 is a million miles off the talent at WR in 2014.
Ya, and it’s not really close at all. Justin Blackmon probably wouldn’t even be a top 5 WR if he were in this class, let alone top 5 overall.
They’ve only had one HIGH draft pick that went to Okung. But a 2nd rounder for Tate is still a high draft pick.
Great points! I think the exception to the rule might be Kelvin Benjamin, although he probably won’t still be there at #32. He is the big WR with enormous catch radius that PC covets to create matchup nightmares and attack the redzone, which is an area of mediocrity.
A lot of what they do hinges on what kinds of quality guys fall to them at 32/64. If you are telling me that right now they know exactly what they will do, I think you are overestimating their ability to dictate in the process.
I wouldn’t make any assumptions on the role the players bring in. For all we know they draft a receiver at #32 and he ends up being used as a #1.
Whose the 4th WR in your
1. Harvin
2. Baldwin
3. Kearse
4. ???
5. All the practice squad guys, Price and Matthews, any draft pick you say we’d get.
Not sure who you as assuming gets the 4th spot.
Oh probably Ricardo Lockette. Brain fart!
Absolutely. And that was manifest his first offseason.
Like any guy, I’m sure John saw what was good about Thompson’s decision making, but for a long time had his own tweaks to it that he would do if he were given the ability to create his own program.
He comes from the tree, and there is definitely a lot of similarities. But Schneider from day one has shown that he views the acquisition of talent far more broadly. It is apparent that he viewed Thompson’s program as needlessly dismissive of alternative avenues of talent acquisition. We trade more. We use UFA more. It’s a far more comprehensive system. At it’s core, it’s value driven. The draft is the surest way to get value. But getting UFA talent at deflated price is an avenue he aggressively pursues. And he is judicious in his expensive pursuit of real special talents.
Rob- You keep mentioning what a fantastic year it is for WRs, but after Watkins/Evans/Beckham, you don’t seem to have a lot of great things to say… What gives there?
The aftermath of losing Tate may be doing to him what it is doing to me, making me feel negative and thinking if we don’t hit on the first two picks, we’re screwed.
Hitting on our first 2 picks would be nice, but lets not forget that our #2 and #3 WR’s going into nest year were UDFA. Securing a WR and getting some OLine help looks to be our biggest needs. If you can call them that. Nobody would have guessed we’d pick a RB with our first pick last year, but we did. An impressively athletic RB in Michael that will replace Lynch in 2015, and the beat will go on. Similar replacement plans are in place, as we have had 4 years to stock pile our roster with young players truly competing for starting positions. JS/PC think 2-3 years ahead and have the master plan to win multiple titles. No need to get emotional over losing a few players. They’re getting paid what they’re worth after they’d proven their value winning a title!
Those three are in a separate category. They’re elite prospects. There aren’t many of those.
It is kind of a shame that Rob has never mentioned Brandon Coleman. It’s a shame, but such is life. My first guest is Frankie Avalon.
You missed a FEW articles in February…
I’ve done nothing but praise Odell Beckham, I’ve come around on Kelvin Benjamin, I’ve backed Brandon Coleman… not sure why you’d think that.
Rob- I guess that came out kinda wrong… (and for the record, I did mention Beckham, I’ve been following the site for three years now so I know you’re a Coleman fan, and I didn’t list Benjamin b/c I wanted to keep it to a ‘rule of 3’ thing up there).
The way I’m approaching the WR class is this: We don’t need a perfect player (an elite, play-making, top 20 in the NFL receiver) in the 1st two rounds. To me, a guy with limitations is ok, as long as he hits these qualities, I’ll be happy:
– Size: 6’2″+, 215+, 9″+ hands pref.
– Physical Ability: Needs to be a good, but not freakish athlete; smooth runner and cutter, good vertical, etc.
– Intangibles: Deep down is a good soul, Coachable and hungry for success
Notice I said nothing about breaking speed, great hands or off-field issues. The speed issue for the WRs is taken care of by Harvin and Lockett, the hands by Baldwin and Miller, and I am willing to overlook knucklehead behavior as ‘college boys will be college boys’.
TJack resigned
re-signed
Our famous Defensive Line 7 Man Rotation is history. Fortunately, the four ones left are all pretty good to freakin’ awesome. From right (Bryant’s old position) we have: McDaniel, Mebane, Bennett and Avril. If no one else is signed backing them up will be some combination of: Boatright (one of my favs), Hill, Scruggs, Williams, and Mayowa. Not so worse, as my four year old nephew would say.
The OLine has lost Breno – a big loss (in pass protection Breno is one of the fastest players in the league getting back into his defensive position). We have to pray to whatever god, or invisible spaghetti monster, we worship that Okung and Unger are actually healthy by the time the season starts (if not – yikes!). If they are healthy: Okung, Carpenter/McQ, Unger, Sweezey, Bowie look to be the starters (as of now) with Bailey, Hauptmann and Jeanpierre as back ups. With free agency still on-going and the draft – we should be able to, at least, limp through, if not more than just limp through.
The line backers look more than solid with Wright, Wagner and Irvin – backed up by some dude that won a SB MVP award. I expect Irvin to take a big step forward with his great physical package of skills – now that he’s learned to play the position.
As to pass catchers – even if we entered the season with just: Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Willson, Miller/McCoy (or replacement) and DaBeast getting his receptions out of the backfield – I’d be a happy enough camper as long as Wilson is healthy and slingin’ the pig skin.
Challenges we’ve got – a repeat is not guaranteed – that’ll make it all the sweeter when we do it anyway!
I don’t know how you can say the d line rotation is history, we have Avril, Bennett, Scruggs, Williams, Hill, Mebane, Mayowa, Boatright, Brooks, McDaniel, and a few others on PS. Now obviously not all these guys will be active per game, but there’s plenty of depth at D line. Maybe add one more veteran pass rusher, but I truly think Irvin will be a DE this season.
I miss ready your comment and now feel stupid… Wow lol
Agree with you on pass catchers — given this WR class is so deep, totally could see OL/DL early and WR later (and/or even sneaky cheap FA WR)
Isn’t McQuistan a free agent? If so hopefully we don’t re-sign him. Yes he can play a lot of positions on the line, but isn’t even good enough to take the starting position away from Carpenter. Need to stay younger and cheaper, I don’t see any reason to bring him back unless its for the minimm.
Boatright’s college tape shows a dominating player that combines great footwork with violent hands and a full arsenal of moves to immediately defeat blockers and get into the backfield to destroy running plays and disrupt passing plays. Brooks flashed last preseason. Scruggs will be a factor. Hill can do the McDonald. Kids will emerge from obscurity and contribute to this years SUPERIOR version of “our famous defensive line!”
Looking forward to training camp. 90% of finding the next superstar is giving them an opportunity to play.
Yet another great article Rob. I find myself looking forward to your take on what has transpired more then that actual events of the day. It always inspires a great reasoned discussions among the faithful. That being said, I am taking a slightly different read on this exodus of souls. Coach Carroll spoke the other day on retaining MB and one catchphrase he used really stuck with me. He used the term “evolve”. I honestly believe that this team is in fact still evolving and taking shape and in some ways last years championship happened ahead of schedule. Look at the players that have left and a case can be made that everyone of them was being going to be challenged for their spot come training camp. They are all flawed players who thru age or injury or athletic limitation were inevitably going to move on. Even golden was essentially rendered expendable the moment PH was acquired. The evolution of this team began the day PC/JS took over and in the beginning it turned over at a tremendous rate. As the talent pool grew, the changes slowed and became more surgical. They were wildly successful last season and accelerated the timeline leading to a title. The next step in the process now that the team has been assembled is to secure the longevity of the excellence and that can only be accomplished by locking up the core of young superstars. To do this, sacrifices must be made and youth must be served. Once the nfl has gorged itself on seattles roster cast offs this front office will add a few parts on the cheap. But I fully expect this team to carry over 10-12 million $ rollover that will help pay the core talent that needs to get paid next year. One thing Rob is absolutely right on is this years top draft choices need to be starter caliber right out of the gate. We have suffered some losses to be sure but I believe each and everyone is part of the grand plan!
Thanks for the kind words.
Some valid points there too.
Well analyzed. It will be interesting to see if there are parts to be had on the cheap. I’ve been struck with the difference this year – with a couple glaring exceptions, it’s not the size of the contracts that have been shocking but the speed with which they were given and how many of them there are. All the starting players are getting paid this year, it seems. In a way, I’m happy for the players who put their bodies at risk. But it does mean that JS/PC’s strategy will need to evolve. Of course, they may well have foreseen this need and it’s only a bystander like me who naively thought Seattle could cherry pick bargains again this year. Big picture, between the escalating salary cap and the last bargaining agreement’s change to rookie salary scale, the ramifications of which are finally being fully played out, we are in a new, challenging world.
It’s worth noting that JS/PC have made the bold choice to play for the next five years, where it appears they could have readily found the cash to keep the band together (perhaps even augmented it by swapping out Clem for Ware for example) and played for one more year. That route would have brought even more pain next offseason but it sure looks tempting from the darkness of losing valued Hawks.
I not in a panic mode right now. The only FAs that I thought would come back was a Breno and Tate. Bowie played the RT this year and we won games. Think how much better he will be this year going thru a camp. Joel Bitinio can push for LG or for a year take over Paul McQuinstan place, who probably played more snaps than the rest of the OL last year. Bailey can backup the tackles and Fat Rabbit can backup the guards. I sure another body will be draft in the 7th with a couple others being brought in UDFA to compete. Tate took 2 years to finally start to turn things around and when that started it was because we had a RW stepping in as QB. I think we could see a breakout with a Ricardo Locket who had a nice 19yd pass in the super bowl. He’s manage to stick around for a few years even going to the 49ers for a short time. I know Donte Moncrief frustrates Rob but I think he’s a lot like Tate but bigger and with RW I think he would only take one year to get started and then he’ll be producing for the next 3 years. We could even trade back into the 3rd round and get him switching a 4th with someone or use the draft pick we got from them to move the 4th pick up and get a Brandon Coleman.
You may not get red Bryant leadership but I think the early 5th pick for a Ed Stintson Alabama DE could easily take those run snaps at the tech 5 if Jesse Williams can’t. This team is still so much better than the 2012 team. What we need to do is resign our kicker and backup QB be patient and watch the FA market until we get to the draft. If an opportunity happens like last year in a Avril and Bennett pop up jump on it. The system and how it works stays the same but there’s 1 difference most of the guys in that locker room have a super bowl ring and they will be the envy of the new players that want one.
The character concerns for Martavis Bryant are not legitimate imo. He was suspended for the 2012 bowl game because of academic ineligibilty. Lost two starts, but ultimately played in the games, because of a throat slashing gesture.
I mean. He didn’t get a dui or get a misdemeanor assault or anything.
My concerns with Bryant are not about his character but about his inconcistencies. A lot of drops, and a lot fo body catches. Of course it’s easy to notice them when he’s lined up against Sammy Watkins. If I were drafting I wouldn’t pick him up no earlier than the 4th.
I think Carp gets a bad rap. He’s a giant man, he run blocks. He took care of Justin Smith. He will only get better. Bowie/Bailey at RG/RT. Sucks we lost Clem but maybe he comes back?
He was also the starter on a Super Bowl team that didn’t give up any sacks. He missed all the OTAs, training camp, and preseason due to rehabbing an injury. The ‘Hawks still clearly believe he has an upside if he can stay healthy and show up to camp in running shape.
Justin Tuck is at Raiders HQ if he signs then Jason Hatcher might just fall to us for the right price.
There’s a lot of interest in Hatcher.
I’m wondering if they were more in on him as an alternative for McDaniel or in addition.
Honestly the Raiders have the money to sign both for more than what we could offer.
I guess I expected quite a lot more from the author of this blog than this! Right from the start you can see emotion take the reigns over the faculty of reason. No longer is it about the business of making the right choices, but about pulling at the emotional heart strings. It’s about “our guys” where the word “weird” has taken a euphemistic stance for “sad.”
—————-
When’s the last time multiple players departed this franchise, and it just felt weird?
Think about it. Golden Tate is going to be catching passes from Matthew Stafford.
Not Russell Wilson.
Stafford.
He’s going to be playing in the NFC North. He’s going to be waving at Green Bay defensive backs. He’s going to be making improbable catches as a team mate of Calvin Johnson.
Breno Giacomini is going to be the right tackle of the New York Jets, playing for Rex Ryan.
Chris Clemons — Seattle’s best pass rusher during the Pete Carroll era — is probably going to be finishing his career in Jacksonville.
Like I said, weird.
And Red Bryant isn’t going to be wearing a Seahawks jersey any more…
It all kind of doesn’t feel right.
It feels dirty. Unclean.
These are our guys.
————————
The truth is that GMs which make decisions either to satiate fans or worse yet to act like fans and base actions on what they wish or who they have become emotionally attached to, are GMs which will eventually drive their teams into the ground!
What’s the truth? There have been zero real losses. First we look at players that were not even poached away but were rather cut from the team. The team did not shy away due to another team coming in and giving the player a huge contract, the team thought that their value had dropped so as to make their current contracts unsustainable. These are old school favorites Red Bryant, Clemons, Rice, and Miller (possible). These guys are good in name only. Clemens is the only one i consider to have any value whatsoever, and his value is quickly outmatched by his massive contract. Let’s remember that before Red or Clem came to Seattle, they were in the NFL for some time and had shown absolutely not value in the league. They were busts. How do you know that the next Red or Clem isn’t coming and is currently unknown? Either way, I see no loss. These players are valued more for their names than their production.
Secondly we come to the players lost in free agency. Breno and Tate. Both of these are NFL average players. I think in Baseball they are called replacement level players. You can drop them and randomly select players from other teams and on average you’ll get the same value. Does this superbowl team ride on the gain or loss of 2 average NFL players?
This is a massive overreaction by Seahawk fans due to emotional attachment and nothing more.
Just my opinion.
Well, this may be Rob’s place, but I feel you missed the point of the article. He didn’t say our team is going down the shitter because we lost some of our guys. This is his reaction as a fan. He isn’t positing this as if he was making executive decisions. There was no offer of a derailment of the franchise.
He just says some fan favorites will be gone.
The only real facts he tries to push are that we will need to replace some guys. The needs are becoming more clear. And we haven’t had much success on early guys.
How is he overreacting? Do you disagree that Red Bryant is a leader? Do you disagree that Clemons was a great find and pass rusher for us? Won’t you miss Breno’s physicality?
He never said we’re losing key cogs. We’re losing a few fan favorites and Rob, as I’ve come to understand, is a man that enjoys watching a certain style of football. Rob likes the hard hitters, the relentless competitors, the fighters. Golden Tate, Red Bryant, Breno Giacomini, and Chris CLEMONS, are all these things. And Rob, as a fan, is saying he will miss them. Does Rob not have the right to emotions? He is not the GM. The GM didn’t make any poor decisions. Rob never said he did.
Continuity is so important for a football. This isn’t baseball, man. You can’t just replace a starter and expect the exact same production. An absolutely foolish notion.
Also, you’re only really wrong about them being average/replaceable immediately. And that this is “a massive overreaction”. It doesn’t seem like an overreaction to me, but rather a regular reaction, completely commensurate and passionate.
This is a fan’s blog. Not everything has to be a rational dissection of the moves made.
Loved the reaction, Rob. Very heartful and definitely echoed with me. Keep it up.
Heartful- not a word, but I’m gonna stick with it.
You might have been thinking “heartfelt”.
Have you actually read the whole article plyka?
Serious question.
And the article was just his opinion. This is a blog after all where he writes about anything he wants to, not some lame NFL writer who only rewrite what was already fed to them by “sources”.
Wow, you are coming in really hot.
I think you missed the point of this article in just about every way possible, so not even going to go over all the points.
BTW – Your post seems like a massive overreaction to Rob’s blog post way more than Rob’s blog post is a massive overreaction to losing players.
Just want to make a note: Tate is better than “average”, by a significant amount.
You mad bro?
Yeah interesting times to be sure
Almost feels like, if we did nothing else at this point other than draft, we are facing a gap in 2014 but likely to be resolved in 2015 with all the compensatory picks we are likely to get, plus the security of ET/RS/RW taken care of (hopefully)
So what to do about next year? At a minimum, seems to me we have to try to find 1-2 mid-tier OL and DL still out there in FA as prices start to go down as teams spend out their cap space — Allen would be nice as replacement for Clem, but he seems to want closer to Ware money, which we may or may not want to pay. I still feel like there are some bargains that will eventually emerge here (maybe even at WR, too like Britt or Nicks?) — and again, we’re just looking for a one year (maybe two if really cheap) coverage to get us to 2015 and beyond.
I now kinda expect OL and DL to be the early draft priorities, and that the extra WR will come in Rounds 4+ — assuming Chris Wallace is at least decent as a large WR target, I’m comfortable with Harvin/Baldwin/Kearse/Lockette as our other four WRs given how we pass relatively little, if the tradeoff is getting more talent onto both of our lines. Our team style really benefits from the tone our lines set, so could see us going cheap on some of our non-RB skill positions.
I think we are seeing how Win Forever leads to perhaps sub-optimal things happening in a given year in order to maintain flexibility/ability to lock up the real top talent and contend over a longer period of time. Kind of striking in comparison to teams like the Broncos who are laying out serious coin for a 1-2 year window with tradeoff being potential inflexibility 3-4 years out. In PCJS we trust…
*Chris Matthews not Chris Wallace (at WR)
I seriously doubt we’re done in FA. I wouldn’t be surprised to see another DL (either Hatcher for 2-3 years or Melton on a prove-it), Finley on a prove-it, and possibly even a surprise OL steal.
PCJS will be looking at LB’s too. IF there is an opportunity to grab their type of quality prospect mid-late, they will do it in preparation for the time when our starting LB’s will have the big $ opportunity.
Why has Farwell not been cut yet frees up 1.5 mil.
Because he’s the heart and soul of the special teams unit.
Hey Rob,
I don’t know what his value is on the market, but assuming it’s cheap, why not just go out and get a Kenny Britt instead of a Martavis Bryant (just furthering the discussion here) with all the character red flags. That way you save the draft pick and use it on something else. This, of course, is all just hypothetical as if the Seahawks were going to target Bryant in the draft…
We’ve talked about Britt on here before. I certainly wouldn’t mind bringing him in for camp, but if he isn’t earning every snap, he doesn’t deserve to be here. Rob has said that there are too many red flags for him to consider it.
Right on. Thanks for the response. I’m certainly not condoning it by any means, but was just thinking if we’re going to talk about Bryant why not Britt. However, I do think it was you that mentioned that you believe Bryant’s red flags are overhyped. Thought that was interesting. This certainly has been a fun first couple days trying to put this giant puzzle together.
I’m not sure you can trust Britt not to get arrested again. He’s had so many chances.
Rob, great write up which perfectly encapsulates the mixed emotions on the turnover of the team.
Gutted (literally re the players and figuratively re the emotion) to lose players that we’ve rooted for & who strongly defined the Hawks identity we’ve come to love. Think it is a shock only because of sentiment on both sides was to keep the ‘family’
But hey-ho, welcome to the age of ‘free’ agency. What drama, what excitement. Love how JThe organisation rather than fight or avoid change, meet it head-on, embrace it, almost seemingly relish it. Hard to say “goodbyes” and “thank you,” to those leaving but may the adventure continue…
just a few thoughts… im sad they let clemons go. I really thought theyd keep him. signing McDaniel back is a boost. ive been thinking for a while now that we are gonna trade up in draft to get evans. probably with buff at 9. but after today, im wondering maybe they go up to 3 and snag clowney?! sounds crazy I know but… jack signed henne for 2 years, theres supposed to be better qbs in next years draft, jack has a ton of holes, if jack wants the top qb next year they might need some draft ammo to get him, they would likely get a few picks which would really help this year and next, henne could still groom the young qb next year.
could clowney play the leo? or maybe im looking at the wrong position!!?? maybe we get robinson and let him play rt this year and then when okungs contract is up we slide him over. lol I don’t know, sure is a fun thinkin about it. go hawks
If you want, I could pinch you so that you can wake up from that dream your having.
In all seriousness, I think we can completely rule out the Seahawks moving up to #3 in the draft to get a guy like Clowney or Robinson (especially Robinson as that doesn’t even remotely fill a need as Robinson would be be used as a LT). That would take an extremely high amount of draft capital (there is no way that this years first and next years first would be enough).
Talking about moving up is nothing more than a pipe dream.
Newsome of Ravens kept Lewis and Reid well past their expiration date in order to maintain team character and morale. Ergo,not all GMs treat players like cost calculated parts of a machine. It will take tremendous coaching to get that special spirit back again. That said,PC will likely manage it.
The whole Clemons business is a puzzle. It looked like they were holding off until they knew for sure that they had his replacement lined up. Did somebody back out of a deal?
McDaniel vs others also a puzzle. Run stoppers are supposed to be relatively easy to find. Pass rushers,especially internal ones,are supposed to be hard to find. Hill,,the presumed replacement,did nothing to inspire confidence last year..
My gut tells me that Tate won’t be replaced in time to win it all next year. The offense was just barely good enough as it was. Their record at WR leaves a lot to be desired. It took a long time to develop Tate. Nobody they draft will be good enough first year. There are no likely FA replacements out there. Harvin is too fragile to be the main guy. He won’t last the year.
How do you maintain that special effort when outsiders like Harvin get the huge contracts while guys like Tate,who did exactly as asked, get pushed out the door at age 25 when he was apparently affordable.?
It looks like the FO has failed to re-calibrate after the unexpected $10 M. addition to the cap. Plus,they seem to be taking a very long view instead of going for it all again in this likely to be very short lived window of opportunity.
The fact that the FO has done very well doesn’t mean that they are supernaturally perfect and above all critiicism. PCs coaching has covered up a lot of goofs:Whitehurst,Flynn,Carpenter,Moffitt,Durham Harper,the third TEs,etc. A lot of the “finds” (e.g. Sherman,Browner) were ones that PC knew from college. A lot of the others (e.g. Breno) were old Green Bay guys. There’s no guarantee they’ll be able to pull it all off again.
Sorry I fail to see your doom and gloom look at the off-season.
JS always talks about when planning the team they plan out 3 years not just the current year and go year to year. People have to look at the moves with the thought in mind that RW3, Earl, Sherm, Wagner, Okung and possibly KJ need to be extended. You just can’t look at RW3, Earl and Sherm.
If Wagner continues his play of the 2nd half of the season when it’s time to extend are we talking Patrick Willis / Novorro Bowman money? How much is Kuechly going to get and how similar will Wagner’s contract be?
Okung, how much does a top 5-7 LT make? 10 mil/year?
KJ, how much does an elite cover LB get?
Would you trade Tate for the ability to extend Okung, Wagner or KJ?
I have full confidence in JS and PC’s ability to find guys who they can plug in and contribute. Will those players meet or exceed the production of the players they will be replacing? Maybe not, but they don’t have to be IMO.
FWIW, Okung’s extension is unlikely to affect the cap much. He started out on a ludicrous rookie contract and his extension will probably be in the 8-9 million dollar range, which means that there will be no change in terms of cap hit.
Every year they have drafted mid-late round prospects and developed them into 1st round producers. How many references do you need before you declare a trend that is predictable and sustainable? McDaniel is very tall and long, which are attributes PC mandates at the 3T. We have no backup with similar measurables. Hill has similar measurables and skills to McDonald and will likely play well in that roll.
While I’m really sorry to see Tate and mcdonald go, breno’s loss is the one that has me most worried. Maybe Bailey, bowie or a rookie can step up but it’s going to be a big ask, especially against the NFC West defenses. The ol was already pretty weak, it just got weaker.
If one of the top receivers drops to 32 and someone like bitonio is there who do you take? If Breno was still there I’d definitely take the receiver, but not so sure now.
I’d have a tough time separating Beckham Junior and Bitonio. Benjamin offers the team something they don’t have right now and clearly want. I’m not sure OBJ or Benjamin will be there. Could make it an easy decision if that’s what it came down to.
I like Bailey as a run blocker, but not as a pass blocker, which is why i’m not putting Bailey at RT. I would replace Carp with Bailey at LG and draft/sign a RT to replace Breno. Bitonio sounds great to me, from what Rob has posted. I trust PCJS (and TC) when it comes to evaluating OL talent.
Watch the Lynch TD from the super bowl – Bailey absolutely owns his guy and opens a huge hole for Lynch. It’s very impressive.
I think the loss of WTIII is being understated. Finding a nickel CB is very difficult. I don’t trust Lane there (or anywhere, really), and I don’t know a thing about Simon. I’m also not confident that they will find someone in the draft who can step in and start. I think they need to find someone in free agency.
Thurmond isn’t lost yet. He’s in Seattle right now talking to the Seahawks.
that’s great news. I thought he was already gone
Akeem Auguste was getting the highest accolades from RS late in the year. Apparently, he was consistently tearing it up on the practice field.
Rookie WRs are not dependable and neither is Taylor Price. I don’t see how we go into camp next year with Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Price, Lockette, and draft pick. That is a skeleton crew that we should not feel secure about. We need someone proven to add to the mix.
as you can tell, i’m a bit worried after the last 2 days.
I like Coleman and would love to see him at #64, but I still don’t think he would contribute right away.
Ross I agree that Price (at this time) “is not dependable.”
However: Harvin is probably the most dangerous receiver/runner/returner “hybrid” in the Universe. He played – what – about six offensive plays all regular season…he blocks like a small sized tornado and I would go to “Hell and Back” with this guy (Any of you guys remember Audie Murphy, America’s most decorated soldier? Am I showing my age. Ya – I’m showing my age – sigh). Baldwin and Kearse BOTH play the game the right way – with the right results – you dis them – you’ll have to answer to me! The light has gone on for Lockette – he finally gets it – you can’t be a leader on this team unless you leave everything on the field – always compete – finally the guy gets it. Lockette may very well be the huge pleasant surprise of 2014.
Now Ross…have I ever lied to you before?
Mylegacy, you are very upbeat about the WR position. The world needs people like you. I’ll buy that Harvin is, essentially, Tate’s replacement. However, that is discounting Harvin’s injury history. But, in my opinion, we can’t replace Rice with Lockette/Price/draft pick and expect to not see a drop off. This team needs a dependable WR with a huge catching radius, ala Rice. Where is that WR coming from? Finley? If he lines up as a WR, I think he can be shut down. His value comes from creating mismatches vs LBs as a TE.
I wish I knew what PCJS were thinking. This is torture.
Ross – I too am concerned about Harvin’s 150% effort and his health…in my dreams I see Kam (or some similar monster) doing to him what Kam does to those who dare enter his area…this usually makes we wake up with a cold sweat. As to Rice – he, like Harvin, hardly played in 2013 and if I remember correctly we actually won a SB. I’m not sure Lockette will “blossom” – but I think there is a reasonable chance he will.
You are 100% correct about your last sentence – “This is torture.”
Kearse is replacing Rice and Harvin is replacing Tate. Baldwin destroying 1 on 1 matchups all year…
Kearse is a nice piece, but not the type of WR that Seattle needs on the outside. He won’t win one-on-one matchups they way a big bodied, long armed, athletic WR will. WR is a FA need, in my opinion.
Rob,
With the Jets (Decker) and the Lions (Tate) both seemingly found their WR’s in FA, do you think they still go with that position in the draft? How does that effect what WRs may fall to use at #32?
I think both teams need at least one more receiver. The Jets have nothing at the position. And Detroit could still use another one.
I honestly see the jets taking a TE in round 1. they just signed Decker, they need some serious help up the middle and a Red Zone target for Geno or whoever there QB may be… I can see them making a push for Ebron
and Detroit needs CB or S help in the 1st round
with that said, i see other teams taking a WR
Watkins going to any one of the top 5 teams
Mike Evans to the Steelers at #15
Marqise Lee to Ravens at #17
Chiefs take OBJ or Brandon Cooks at #23
49ers take OBJ or Cooks at #30 ( only WR they need is a speed guy, already have big bodies in Crabtree & Boldin) this is tough though, as i can also see hem going after a Defensive player in the 1st.
that leaves Seattle at #32 with several options
1. Kelvin Benjamin
2. OBJ (doubt it, but maybe)
3. Cooks( doubt it, but maybe)
4. Jordan Matthews
5. Allen Robinson
then obviously Brandon Coleman and the others but i don’t see them taking any of them in the 1st. Colmman? maybe, know body never though they would take Irvin in the first or Michael in the 2nd, like Schnider said, cant pass on talent like that.
Ya DET need a CB or S in the worst way.
I can see NYJ taking Ebron.
Gimme KB!!! PC desperately covets the big WR, which he always had at USC. The right big is a matchup nightmare for opposing D’s and a red zone terror!
Yeah, there are probably 6 receivers you could argue as first round worthy (Watkins, Evans, Benjamin, OBJ, Cooks, Matthews). With the depth in this draft I’d be shocked if one if them wasn’t there at 32. Question is whether or not it’s the one our front office likes.
There is still a few RTs in the FA pool that i would consider comprable to Breno, and would cost in the ballpark. Those being Michael Oher, Charles brown, and Anthony Collins(although he has been linked to a few other teams already).
Melton and hatcher would both be nice “gets” at DT. I also would not mind bring Jason Babin in to compete at Leo for a 1-2 year deal.
There are still several options out on the FA market that will not break the bank. Most of the better teams are not out spending crazy money right now. they are letting the market come to them.
Can you tell I am in “Trust PCJS” camp?
I like the idea of having a look at Oher at RT in training camp if the price is right.
I hate seeing Tate and Breno go just like it hurts to lose Red and Clem.
However, Tour reaction as fans is missing a major point –
There are smart people sitting in that FO working 20 hours a day of not more as we speak. The guys that left didn’t slip through someones fingers – they were calculated loses. I’m sure the FO was given every chance to match Tate’s or Breno’s offers and decided against it WITH A PLAN IN MIND. While we all react after the fact they plan ahead based on a lot of information we do not have.
They didn’t let Tate go without a very clear plan in mind – They may plan on stocking a few maybe’s to compete with some draft candidates knowing that out of 3-4 guys will find the one to complete Kearse, Baldwin and Harvin.
They did’t let Breno go without a clear alternative based on their evaluation of the guys they have a draft picks they count on.
The above is clear since none of those guys got a back breaking offer they can’t refuse. The difference was 1-2M a year the Seahawks would not pay. If those loses were deemed too hard – They would have paid that extra mil or 2 a year.
Know, that we know it’s all part of well thought plan it’s time to sit back and watch what the Hawks will do with 17M cap once the FA market dies down.
As for the draft – we do have 2 high picks. The picks at the 5th round. It’s there that we get the Kams, Shermans and Willsons. The 1st. and 2nd. round picks will hopefully complete those high picks to a nice list of candidates that will compete in camp.
I feel the pain just like every other Hawks fan but i’m calm and eager to see the moves that will happen.
Here’s a thought. The Seahawks have always done well with UDFA’s. If you are an UDFA you probably do not sign with the Super Bowl champ because their roster is probably loaded. All of these defections should change that dynamic. We could be the preferred spot for those guys that do not get drafted.
OK, I have to admit I was hoping the team would resign Golden Tate and I have a bit of disappointment there. But, going into the offseason, I said I would give the front office an A for the off-season if they could 1) keep Bennett; 2) keep Baldwin or Tate; 3) extend Thomas; and, 4) extend Sherman. I got a little greedy when the cap increased more than expected and hoped they could keep Baldwin and Tate but so far the front office is on track.
When you looked at the roster and the cap going into the off-season, it was clear that Seattle did not have enough money to accomplish all four goals without clearing some space and there were four guys who were likely cap casualties: Rice, Clemons, Bryant and Miller – maybe Farwell. Again, so far right on track.
There were also a handful of veteran free agents I thought we could/should keep: Hauschka, McCoy, TJackson, Jeanpierre, maybe Michael Robinson. So far, so good.
When I looked at who wasn’t on that veteran free agent keeper list, guys like Tate, Giacomini, McQuistan, McDonald, McDaniel, and Thurmond jumped out. So, I guess I have been emotionally prepared to say goodbye to all of these guys for a month. I appreciate their contributions to winning a championship and I wish them all the best in the future. So, it feels like a nice surprise when one of these guys stays (Tony McDaniel) rather than a crushing disappointment when one leaves. I hoped we could keep Tate with the extra cap space. Maybe now we can keep Thurmond now or get a veteran defensive lineman or wide receiver on a short-term, team-friendly deal. But, even if we don’t sign a single free-agent from another team, I think we’re still in a position to challenge for another championship in 2015 and just as importantly, we are still in a position to keep Thomas and Sherman for 2016 and beyond.
Coach Pete said after the Super Bowl that we already had everything we need to challenge for another championship and I think he is right. Bowie and Bailey and others are ascending talents at offensive line and were already challenging for starting spots. Kearse’s development at WR was exciting to see, especially during the playoffs, so that moderates the loss of Tate a bit. I am looking forward to seeing what comes out of the competition among all the young defensive linemen. We’ll add some depth and future starters in the draft but do we need to add an immediate impact starter? I don’t think so. We might find someone who could challenge for a starting spot at LG or RT and a big red-zone receiver would fill an important role. The draft is very deep at OL and WR.
The other thing that Coach Pete said after the Super Bowl that I think is getting lost in all the buzz of free agency is that this team will get better next year simply from the continued growth of all the young players on the roster. Now that we have kept Bennett. I am confident that our defense will be championship caliber next year. Tate will be missed but I don’t think his loss means our offense is not championship caliber.
On WRs in the draft – per reports – Bryant had a very good pro day, Moncrief did not. There are two other guys I’m interested in the 3-7 rounds for WR (even though we don’t have a 3rd) Devin Street Pitt – he did not have a decent QB but is a possesion receiver 6’3″ with good speed, not great. The other guy even lower is Moncrief’s WR partner JaMes Logan – 6’2″ but very thin guy.
If we sign Finley, that will also make it easier not to take a WR in the first round if there isn’t a really good guy there.
I like Quincy Enunwa from Nebraska too. He’s what Chris Harper was supposed to be but actually has some quickness.
I like Enuwa also. He might make a good DB convert also, hits like a Mack Truck.
Then you’ll really like Jeremy Deering – a converted WR to safety (sound familiar) 6’2″ 200 – but fast 4.4 or under at his pro day for the 40. He has Seahawky qualities – a really athletic guy.
The system here allows Seatlle to succeed. It also allows coaches and players an opportunity to succeed. I understand the article and all it pertains too but I do look at it from a different perspective. Gus Bradley if he stayed here would not be a head coach in the NFL. Was I glad to see him leave? No, but I am glad to see him rise up in his profession because it reflects the success of the Seahawks organization. This was for a lot of these players in FA there last chance for a better payday and for me I would be the selfish one to think less of them for doing so. The fact is that people clamoring for our players means that the system here is successful. I am sad to see a Breno in New York but I’m not disappointed that at 29 he went and got himself more money. Lets face it this was his last opportunity to get a better contract.
Success has its disadvantages but it is so much better to be in this position than scrambling around grabbing anyone with an once of potential like we was doing in 2010. The guys that left in FA have my best wishes and will always have a place in my heart except on game day when they come up against my Seahawks.
Great point. Who would we rather be? The team whose players everyone else is clamoring for, or one of those teams clamoring for someone else’s players?
Everyone needs to take a breath for a minute and relax. Some things to keep in mind.
The players that we have lost, for the most part, either weren’t starters or were starters that had some serious short comings. Breno was often a detriment in pass protection (and for some reason, he was called for holding on EVERY SINGLE long run by Turbin). Prior to last year, most were calling for him to be replaced. Red was no longer really a starter last year, as age slowed him down and his run stopping ability didn’t compensate for his inability to get to the QB. Clemons was coming back from a serious injury and struggled to get to 4.5 sacks. Yes, it takes time to come back from those injuries, but he is 32 and his forte was his 4.5 40 speed. How do we know that his lack of production wasn’t due in part (or large measure) to his age? How do we know that his age won’t slow him down this year? If it takes two years to recover, does that mean he won’t be fully recovered for another year from now (and then how old will he be)? Tate was talented, but quite limited in how he was successful. He was a decent home run hitter, a good blocker, a very good punt returner, and he was good at breaking tackles. He did seem to struggle to create separation when the ball wasn’t thrown deep or thrown to him just past the line of scrimmage. With Harvin as doing a lot of catching close to the line of scrimmage, there is a lot of redundancy there. Just about everyone else was a backup.
I see a lot of hand wringing about RT. We have two guys that were rookies this year who played a fair amount of the time in Bailey and Bowie. While they didn’t perform spectacularly, they performed decently under the circumstances, and they did so despite playing multiple positions. Remember, these guys were rookies this year, and everything that I have heard (including from PC) is that you see the greatest strides between the first and second years. So between those two players, I think we can assume that one will be substantially better. Will one or both be better than Breno? No clue, but the Seahawks may feel very comfortable that one of them can take over at RT.
Let’s call a spade a spade, there is a lot of overlap between Tate and Harvin. Yes Harvin has injury concerns (to one extent or another), and yes there are some stylistic differences. However, this is a run first team and it seemed to me that we saw Jermaine Kearse step up towards the end of the year and in the playoffs. He does have some deficiencies, but he is still a decent player. In the playoffs, he had 7 catches for 134 yards and 2 TD’s (with a long of 35). Baldwin, who will also be around next year, had 13 catches for 202 yds and 1 TD (with a long of 51). Tate had 8 catches, 61 yds, and 0 TD’s (long of 13). Kearse averaged 19.6 yds, Baldwin 15.5, Tate 7.6 and Harvin 6.5 (Harvin had 4 catches, 26 yds, and no rec TD’s, but was limited to about 5 quarters). You can see some of the Harvin/Tate overlap there… I am not saying that Kearse is better than Tate, but perhaps the Seahawks feel that he has additional room to grow and that he isn’t necessarily that far behind Tate. So I don’t feel like we are screwed at WR, even though I agree we should draft one in the top couple of rounds this year.
I was surprised we cut Clemons, but this seems a little tied to the resigning of Bennett. I always thought that Avril was a lot like Clemons, and my guess is that he gets shifted over to the Leo spot with Bennett filling the opposite DE spot. I do think that we need some more bodies here, but they likely feel that between Hill, Williams, McDaniel, Scruggs, etc, that we have some talent at the DL. I would not be surprised to see us go DE if there is a good one that slips down to us (like Tuitt or possibly Urban). I also don’t think we are done in FA on the edges.
Right now, we still have at least $11m to play with in the free agency market, after setting aside money for draft picks. The momentum from losing players everyone is familiar with can be disheartening, but I think it was aggravated from having all of those dominoes fall at once. If you step back and look at the grand picture, most of those defections weren’t unexpected, just having them happen at the same time packs a bigger wallop. When you add in discouraging comments from Allen, Hatcher heading down to Oak, and having the good news the previous day with Bennett (when we hadn’t “lost” those players yet), and the emotional swing was kind of high for many fans.
Rob, I disagree with you on the presumption that we need to draft an OT in the first round to come in and start. I don’t think that JS/PC would let Breno go and head into the draft with a starting spot completely open. I think that they let him go because Cable is confident in the other guys on the roster at least being adequate.
The other thing for everyone to keep in mind is that at the end of the day, we need to clean out the older, as well as the less talented players. We are going to be bringing in 7 drafted players, that requires spots on the roster. We stashed a LOT of players on IR last year (Scruggs, McCoy, Simon, Ware, Williams all come to mind). That is at least another 5 guys who will be competing for spots. Add in some bargain players in FA and as UDFA, and you need some spots for young guys to be plugged in (or put another way, some of those veterans were going to be release anyway).
So let the dust settle a little bit, keep an eye out for a signing of two from the Seahawks (or maybe even as many as another 3-4), and then come back and reassess things.
And they like Moyoa a lot. They may be eying another Moyoa in this draft. Wouldn’t surprise me. Keep the faith.
GO HAWKS
“Rob, I disagree with you on the presumption that we need to draft an OT in the first round to come in and start. I don’t think that JS/PC would let Breno go and head into the draft with a starting spot completely open. I think that they let him go because Cable is confident in the other guys on the roster at least being adequate.”
I think they need to go OL at either #32 or #64, but I don’t think they need to draft an OT in round one.
While I think that a first our second round OT will have a lot more physical talent than one taken later, I wonder if Cable and the Hawks in general will put that much stock in getting one early. For the most part, they have seemed content taking OL in the mid to late rounds.
Now having said that, adding a OT with the talent to fill in well at LT would be a huge boon in my book.
However, I wonder if there is a good DL and WR at those two rounds, if the Seahawks wouldn’t end up going that direction.
Yep — agree completely — good post
I’m hoping for 3-4 FA signings to add depth on the lines, maybe a prove-it deal for a WR (or is our “large WR” going to be Finley, perhaps?)
I’m also hoping we don’t reach at the top of the draft and instead be flexible on what value is available lined up to our needs — hopefully it works out that we can put an emphasis on OL and DE (to your point I think DT is covered particularly with McDaniel, hopefully Hatcher or Melton?, and the high potential young players there). I’d even be ok leaving WR until Day 3 especially if we get a 1 year stopgap FA (unless a absolute playmaker falls to 32 or 64, in which case let’s take the value)
It’s easy to be disappointed that we didn’t come in with guns a-blazing and re-sign all of our top FAs, with the cost being an potentially unmanageable cap in 2-3 years (like what Denver is potentially facing now with all their spending) That’s just not the Win Forever way.
IBN is rumoring that Seahawks are in on Steve Smith along with 4 other teams (Broncos, Packers, Giants, Ravens).
I think I’d be up for that if he’s available for cheap — he probably has a little bit left in the tank
Kinda feel like he’ll get more money elsewhere though
Google ‘Incarcerated Bob’ and ‘gambling’ and let’s never mention him or ‘IBN’ on here again.
I actually cited him so people wouldn’t get too excited about the source, at least those who know what IBN is. I can’t speak either way about anything else about IBN or Bob. I agree with you that they seem sketchy, all things considered. A few years ago they did break some stories, so I think at one point they had some ins with either some players, agents, or friends of players. I don’t think they have any sources within organizations.
Kiper mocks Stephen Tuitt to the hawks…
Maybe reading your blog finally Rob!
And Mayock has moved Bitionio into the top 5 offensive tackles. I think Rob was out in front of that too.
I am beginning to wonder if these guys are just following Pauline and Rob.
It is seriously bizarre how quickly Rob’s thoughts become group think.
Tuck signed with the Raiders: 2 yrs, $11m. I would assume that a Jared Allen deal would likely be in the same range (a discount for us being a winning team and his better portfolio than Tuck, you also have to discount Raider contracts due to the sheer stupidity of that organization). Of course, I am sure that he assumes he deserves Ware money.
Vance Walker’s agent reporting Seahawks interested in his client.
Hey all,
First time that I’ve actually taken the time to read all the comments to one of Rob’s articles. Great discussion rather than the usual vitriol filled blog posts!
I also was dissappointed by Tate and Giacommini leaving. However, it seems to me that PCJS have been quite consistent in focusing on finding guys with game-changing talents and putting them in positions to use those talents. Specifically, Percy’s speed, Russel’s legs,arm, head (pretty damn much of everything with Russel), Sherm’s length and attitude, Kam’s size and coverage, etc… It’s these players with the UNIQUE skills that they are choosing to keep. Tate is a fine receiver and an even better Punt returner but, he isn’t a unique talent, someone that makes the other team change what they do. Breno’s aggressiveness was noteworthy but in a game of hyper-aggresive maneaters and in a system that preaches “competition” I’m confident they can replace that. (Sorry, I’m drifting here.)
The point I’d like to make is that I expect their first two pics (in particular) to be high-upside pics; players that could some day be “game-changers”. Last year we certainly didn’t need one running back, let alone two but Michael was “the top running back talent in the draft” for some. Certainly a potential game-changer that dropped. Even the draft of Carpenter and Moffit were, at the time, touted by PCJS as specific picks for specific players with talents they wanted more than other, more highly rated players.
All that to say, I expect our first round pick to be a potential rockstar, to have some talent that MAY, make him a game changer. With the depth of the receiver crop, I can imagine a Beckham (speed) dropping and Seattle snapping him up. Or, if not him, the pick will be a player with a specific talent that they see as incredible. It won’t be some “guy” that is average. PCJS have proven they can get that guy later in the draft and off the waiver wire all day long.
Go hawks!
My gut reaction is to be nervous about all the talk of drafting OL and WR in the first and second round…because that’s what we need. So if Calvin Pryor or Darqueze Dennard or Anthony Barr happen to be sitting there at 32, are we going to pass over any of them to take Bitonio because we need a RT? Heck, if Johnny Manziel is sitting there at 32, are we going to pass on him to take Benjamin or OBJ because we need help at WR? (Don’t laugh. If he falls out of the top five, watch out. Stranger things have happened.)
As much as I football-despise John Elway, he was right when he said free agency is best for filling gaping holes on your roster so you are under less pressure to draft for need and are more free to draft BPA. It’s a happy coinsidence when the best player left on your board when you pick happens to fill your biggest need, but woe unto the teams that does not happen for and they cave under the pressure of need. Remember, Christine Michael was our top pick last year and has yet to compete for a starting spot, and that from a GM who has stated they build their draft board based on who can compete with the starters for a job. CMike was not a need-based pick.
Let’s squeeze everything we can out of free agency so we can squeeze everything we can out of the draft.
Hell yeah…KB over Joany football all day and twice on Sunday! PC has said and demonstrated on numerous occasions that he wants a big WR that plays big. He always had one at USC. KB is a matchup nightmare who immediately improves our red zone efficiency from mediocre to above average>excellent. If he is there at #32, I struggle to think of other players PCJS would value higher…
And I agree that we can now look forward to PCJS finding some value on the back end of this FA period now that the hysterical overpay period is dying down. They are shrewd at finding FA value and liberating our Draft agenda from urgent needs…
Perhaps you have not heard PCs glowing remarks about Manziel at the combine. I’m not aware of any such comments of his about Benjamin.
Just my take, but I’d happily take Bitonio over Pryor, Dennard or Barr any day of the week. He’s a better player for me.
He’s not for me.
Bennett is back. I’m good with whatever else comes. Coach’em up!
Totally agree. Keeping Breno, Tate, and Red, but losing Bennett would have been far worse. I think the FO is handling this quite well. If Finley is healthy enough to sign with us, that takes care of the “big receiver” we’re been waiting for. I don’t understand all the doom and gloom over the three that we’ve lost. I think the team will be even stronger next season.
Hatcher signed 4 yrs 27.5 mil in washington
Damn!!
Rob, with the bucs releasing OT Donald Penn, any thoughts to as to a fit for us?
I’m not a fan. He’d be too expensive. I think if they add any veteran OT’s it’ll be vet minimum type deals for depth. Charles Brown one to watch who fits that bill.
Taylor Price is a great prospect. He has had bad luck with injuries and may not have been a good fit previously. But he has very high upside, great character and excellent athletic measurables. PCJS load up on guys like this and a few of them excel every year. He might be one of the guys that surprise us this year!
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1123712
WTIII is visiting the 49ers per rotoworld. That would just suck. I heard tate wouldn’t even let his agent negotiate with the Niners. Just another reason I’ll miss Golden.
Yeah, he seems to be hurt by the Seahawks roster moves, particularly the cutting of Red Bryant. Does he think it’s different anywhere else?
Well, he’d be in for a rude awakening! Jim Harbaugh will not be as concerned about his well being as they were here, broken leg, drug testing failures… If he signs there, it will be what I expect from this Oregon player who can’t seem to stop smoking pot…
Maybe he would rather play for a team that signs everyone until the CAP resources are so mismanaged that everyone is cut and a 5 year rebuild commences.
If he signs with the 9ers, I want to send him a big bad of killer buds…ok, I stole that line.
Weird that he wouldn’t love the Hawks for enduring the trials and tribulations of constant injuries and failed DOPE tests…
Akeem August tore up the practice field according to RS. He might emerge as the next stellar (Nickel) CB…
Intended to Rely to the WTIII thread…
RayBones had an excellent analysis. I’ll add one additional thought. JS/PC have insisted from day one that the franchise was being built for the long haul. Can you say Belichick? It seems like every year the Pats cut some “soul of the team” big name vet. Yet they keep winning based on coaching up players, a strong culture, Brady, and a philosophy of evolving and adapting (not a system coach). It actually sounds really familiar don’t you think?
Rappoport just reported seahawks have interest in re-signing Sidney rice – that could be good
Just a comment about this site: Rob is a great read but I get as much enjoyment from the comments as the article. There are a bunch of informed and intelligent readers. It’s a compliment that Rob attracts that audience. I like the civil, almost team-like camaraderie the commenters exhibit and the fact that Rob reads and responds to comments really increases the give and take. So, keep up the good stuff… both Rob and readers. Thanks to all.
Couldn’t agree more dale. We have a good group here.
I just stumbled into this site a week or 2 ago, and those are my sentiments exactly! It’s refreshing to find a board that’s not full of trolls and have people have completely absurd posts. Thoroughly enjoy the site and well thought out comments!