Reflecting on Seattle’s previous interest in Mario Edwards Jr

Two years ago, shortly before the 2015 draft, Mike Garafolo tweeted the following:

It followed a piece by Jason La Canfora where he touted Edwards Jr as a top-20 pick. At the time it was a bit of a surprise. He hadn’t played much football in 2014 due to injury. There wasn’t much hype going into the draft — or even after the combine.

He ended up being the #35 pick that year, taken by the Oakland Raiders. His pro-career has been similarly injury hit. Today I spent some time looking into Seattle’s reported interest. What intrigued them about Edwards Jr?

We didn’t have TEF in 2015 (Trench Explosion Formula). If we had, we would’ve had clarity — and we would’ve been able to identify Edwards Jr as a possible target long before April.

If you missed our coverage last year and want to know what TEF is, click here.

While TEF was devised mainly to test offensive linemen, overall it’s a good system to compare any player competing in the trenches. More often than not the most explosive player will win a 1v1 battle (see: freak of nature Aaron Donald). It’s not unfair to use a similar formula to judge offensive and defensive linemen.

It helped us identify Sheldon Rankins as one of the most explosive players in the draft last year. Despite being mocked frequently to Seattle, TEF guided us against the likelihood of him lasting into the 20’s. Unsurprisingly he was taken by New Orleans at #12.

Rankins’ TEF score was a mightily impressive 3.52 beating Robert Nkemdiche (3.47), Noah Spence (3.46) and Yannick Ngakoue (3.44).

So what was Mario Edwards Jr’s TEF score based on his combine workout in 2015?


He didn’t necessarily look like a freak in terms of his body type — but he was a complete monster. A superior athlete to Rankins, Nkemdiche and every other defensive or offensive linemen in the entire 2016 draft.

Two years ago we probably focused on an Okay-ish forty yard dash of 4.84 or a slightly disappointing 10-yard split of 1.76. I wrote a whole article talking about how he didn’t really shine on tape as a pass rusher. Note to self: this is a team that likes to acquire talent and coach it up.

Some teams in the NFL, including possibly the Seahawks, were likely focusing on his explosive testing. That’s probably where La Canfora’s sources were coming from when he was talking about a top-20 grade.

Without the injury history, he probably would’ve cracked that range.

The combine starts later in the calendar this year, with the first set of workouts beginning on March 3rd. We probably need to be looking for prospects like Edwards Jr that are in the 275-290lbs range with a truly explosive physical profile. More so, perhaps, than focusing on a forty or split (unless it’s a pure EDGE). They’ll be easier to uncover thanks to TEF.

So while it’s fun to salivate over Demarcus Walker’s sensational ability to get off a block, look at Taco Charlton’s intimidating size and Derek Barnett’s fantastic career at Tennessee — we still need to see a physical profile before attempting to judge their fit in the draft.

Expect Solomon Thomas to have a remarkable TEF score and ultimately go in the top-10 (if not the top five).


  1. JT

    Mario “Williams” Jr. You don’t say? 🙂

  2. JT

    I did a little study last year on the nickel DT’s in that 270-290 lbs range that the Hawks have employed in recent years. Every single one had a SPARQ score higher than 115, and every players that has played meaningful snaps had a SPARQ score of 130-140. That latter group is Mike Bennett, Frank Clark, Clinton McDonald, and Greg Scruggs.

    The Hawks appear to like freaky athletes at that position (shocker), so we can expect more of the same moving forward.

  3. AlaskaHawk

    Rob, Man it is hard to keep up with all your articles! I always look forward to reading your words of wisdom and all the replies. Well done!

    • Rob Staton

      Thanks 🙂

    • Southpaw360

      I hate reading these articles. Rob talks about players I know won’t be Seahawks most likely. Very disappointing.

      I love these articles actually. I wish the Seahawks could draft all of these “finds.” Keep up the great work Rob! I check this site multiple times a day to see if there is an update. It’s my favorite site on the internet. Thanks for what you do!

      • Rob Staton

        Thanks man 🙂

      • CHawk Talker Eric

        “It’s my favorite site on the internet”


        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Er, I mean “favourite” 😉

  4. STTBM

    Really nice article, Rob. Am looking forward to the combine and your articles afterward–its always fun watching who you profile and mock to Seattle. You were right about Ifedi and right about their interest in other players they ended up not being able to draft.

    I may not be stoked about their using TEF to identify O-line prospects but I recognize that they do. Wonder if the two tackles coming out make it any more likely Seattle could trade up a bit and get a good one…

    • Kenny Sloth

      Something that gets lost in the equation is the brains and toughness.

      Those are Tom’s number 1 and 2 desires for a player.

      See; Joey Hunt

      In the same interview from which I took the TEF numbers, Cable lists smarts and grit as being too priority

      • Rob Staton

        Without doubt it’s something we have to consider.

        I think round one (maybe round two) is going to be more about physical profile + attitude + intelligence. A complete package type. But in the middle or later rounds they are more likely to consider a less explosive player with the grit and intelligence they crave.

        • STTBM

          I agree, that sounds like a good bet for Seattle’s draft strategy. Love that they have learned to take Grit and Attitude into consideration!

      • Kenny Sloth

        Top* priority

      • CharlieTheUnicorn

        Hunt was small for NFL standards… and when he was in playing for Seattle, this showed it’s ugly head. He just is not big enough. I would not be shocked if they draft another center in the draft (top 4 rounds) and try to move Hunt into the LS spot.. which I think he might be good at doing and where size is not a liability. Nothing against the guy or his play, just too darn small.

        • CharlieTheUnicorn

          I mean, guy capable as a back-up center, since the starter is pretty set with Britt*

          • Kenny Sloth

            I’m not ready to write him off and backuo center isn’t a huge upgrade position especially with the ghost roster cats we have waiting in the wings.

            • Kenny Sloth

              Cable also trusts Sowell to play every position along the OL for him

        • JT

          I thought Hunt held up okay in his lone start this year. It doesn’t hurt that he’s signed for super cheap on his rookie deal the next 3 years. Don’t be surprised if he stays the backup C for the foreseeable future.

          • 503Hawk

            I’ll defend Hunt just like I defended Britt last year. Britt had a lot of positives, he just needed to find the right spot. I’m happy that he got alternate Pro Bowl. Thought it was very deserving.

            While Hunt is not as big as Britt (“listed” at 6’2″ <300), he is big enough. He will get stronger and you might be shocked that he is the best technique O-lineman they have. He is a perfect backup center and I have no worries when he has to step in.

            • Volume12

              I have a hard time believing Seattle sees the backup C as anything more than a position that can be filled late day 3 or UDFA.

              Let’s give Hunt more than 1 game.

              • peter

                I think in many ways Hunt was the hedge against the Britt bet. I’m not sure moving forward where his position would be if Britt were resigned. And I’m not sure, like you, how Seattle views the needs of a back-up center.

              • STTBM

                Yes, Hunt did fine in 1 on 1 blocking, for the most part. Where he struggled was in making the right calls, shifts and adjustments, and figuring out where pressure was coming from and when the D was bluffing. He needs more experience.

                Yeah, he is undersized, but he seemed tough enough and strong enough to hold his own most plays. Again, just the mental side that only comes from experience that needs big improvement.

                One start isnt enough to judge his future, thats for sure.

                • 503Hawk

                  STTBM: How do we know he made the wrong calls, shifts, or adjustments. I challenge any of us to know what their blocking assignments, coverages, routes, etc.

                  • STTBM

                    It was pretty obvious–even to Stevie Wonder. Cable and Carrol kind of admitted it after Britt came back and the line improved dramatically. They said they just didnt want to damage Hunt’s confidence.

                    When Altanta blitzes to the left and Seattle sends the back or TE or whoever right, and the C isnt blocking anyone, its a good bet that a) He called the wrong blocking scheme and b) he didnt read the D correctly.

                    Now, no C reads/guesses where pressure is coming 100% of the time–its often a guessing game. But it was freaking OBVIOUS that Britt is 1000 times better at making the calls than Hunt. What else could we expect from an undersized rookie sixth rounder?

                    Doesnt mean he wont become a good player, he just isnt ready now.

  5. Kenny Sloth

    This. This this this.

    So much this article.

    I love refining our criteria.

  6. JT

    I’ve started to dive deep into the tape of the top Left Tackle prospects, since LT will likely be a priority position of need for Seattle in this draft. If a prospect isn’t on this list, it’s because I haven’t watched at least 4-5 games of tape yet. Thoughts & pre-combine draft grades are below:

    Top 5 talent – none (2016: Laremy Tunsil, Jack Conklin)

    Top 15 talent – Garett Bolles (2016: Shon Coleman, Ronnie Stanley)

    Garett Bolles – An absolute mauler. By all appearances he is an explosive athlete, showing great power and drive to punish defensive ends as a run blocker. He locks his hands in pretty well, and it’s all over at that point. Bolles also has a strong nasty streak – he finishes the play, and then some at times. He has fantastic speed & balance when advancing or pulling to the second level, and he annihilates LB’s and DB’s when he gets there. He isn’t the prettiest pass protector, but he’s still effective (like Jack Conklin). He anchors well against bull rushes, and has great feet to mirror most pass rushers. His top competition this season was against Takk McKinley. Takk had a monster game, but almost all the damage came when he lined up over the RT. Bolles gave up one (Avril-like) strip sack to Takk, but otherwise kept him clear of the pocket. He also controlled Takk in the run-game like he does with every opponent. I think Bolles may be Conklin 2.0, and he was a 1st team all-pro as a rookie. The only thing preventing Bolles from a Top 5 grade is his age. His tape is that impressive. If his age & lack of experience cause him to fall anywhere near Seattle’s 1st round pick, Cable will be pounding the table for this guy.

    Round 1 talent – Ryan Ramczyk (2016: Taylor Decker)

    Ryan Ramczyk – A top athlete on tape (Spriggs-level, perhaps). Better yet, he’s a real technician (especially as a run blocker). He almost always wins the hands battle, and uses his length & leverage to control DL’s at the point of attack. He often springs big holes for the RB either at the POA or the second level. Despite his athleticism, he doesn’t have elite feet when pass protecting, showing a little susceptibility to edge speed, counters and bull rushes from elite defensive talent. He handled himself alright in pass protection against Malik McDowell & Arden Key, while winning as a run blocker. His worst game came against Taco Charlton, who beat him pretty cleanly 2-3x in the first half of their matchup. I like that Ramczyk adjusted and closed the door against Taco for the rest of the game. Ramczyk also won his matchup with Garrett Sickels, a productive mid-round DE prospect from Penn State who out-performed a couple other LT’s still to come on this list. Ramczyk comes close to earning a Top 15 grade. If his injury and lack of experience causes him to drop, I’d be happy with Seattle taking Ramczyk in round 1.

    Top 50 Talent – Forrest Lamp, Antonio Garcia, Cam Robinson (2016: Jason Spriggs, Cody Whitehair)

    Forrest Lamp – IMO, the best technician in this class. He has great feet, hands & balance, and it shows as both a run & pass blocker. He doesn’t appear to be highly athletic, and length could be a real issue – so he is probably an LG at the next level. That’s not bad, as there’s a chance he could make a Zack Martin-like transition. He’s an NFL ready player at the very least I think. Lamp was effective against Arden Key, and held up better than anyone I’ve seen against Tim Williams & Jonathan Allen on the edge. He completely erased Ryan Anderson when matched up. If Lamp tests well athletically, I’ll consider moving him up to a R1 grade.

    Antonio Garcia – A very smooth pass protector. He’s really athletic, moves his feet well to mirror rushers, and knows how to use his length to his advantage. He rarely mauls defenders as a run-blocker, but effectively uses his length, balance and quick feet to make an impact on run plays. Strength in his base is a potential issue, as his listed measurables look correct (6’6 – 6’7, 300-305 lbs), and he doesn’t appear powerful on tape. Level of competition also is a question mark, so he might need a red-shirt season as a rookie. Garcia did very well in his biggest game against Clemson. The champs don’t have traditional edge rushers, but Garcia had no trouble at all against Christian Wilkins & Clelin Ferrell. His toughest matchup was against Tarell Basham, a SPARQ’y day-2 edge rushing prospect for Ohio. There were 2-3 instances where he was cleanly beaten by Basham’s edge speed, but the issue was alignment. He was lining up real close to the LOS and tight to the guard, maybe because he knows he can handle the speed of 95% of edge rushers. That’s an easy fix in the NFL. He otherwise did well against Basham. Garcia may be taken in round 1 after the hype train builds steam through the pre-draft process.

    Cam Robinson – Ideal size, length and pedigree… apart from the character questions. Not too impressed with his performance, considering the top-10 hype. He’s quite powerful, and uses his physical advantages pretty well as a run blocker. Doesn’t appear to be overly athletic, and is very average in the hands, feet, balance & overall technique departments. His draft stock is buoyed by a standout freshman performance against Dante Fowler, as well as matching up pretty well with Myles Garrett multiple times in his career. Derek Barnett (a 1st round lock IMO), had his way with Robinson all game. I hope a team drafts Cam early to help a prior name on this list fall into Seattle’s lap in Round 1 or 2.

    This is getting long, so the next 5 guys are still to come below…

    • Trevor

      Really enjoyed the analysis and post JT. Thanks

    • Ty the Guy

      Excellent stuff! This is why I begin most days checking this site. Rob dishes up some sound, thought provoking analysis and this community furthers the discussion.

      Cam Robinson does not look like a LT to me. More of a James Carpenter type that would slide to the inside to maximize his skill set in the NFL.

      • JT

        Yeah maybe, RT is mentioned a lot for Cam too.

        • Ty the Guy

          On paper, I wouldn’t mind Robinson/Ifedi on the right side. Which one would play RT though?

          Fant has far exceeded my expectation, but I still don’t consider him a legitimate NFL starting LT. I hope he continues to progress and can be a poster boy for PCJSTC/s experimental philosophy on the OL. But using a 1st or 2nd rounder on some competition for him, IMO, seems like the best draft strategy for the Hawks.

          Thus far in the draft cycle and especially after reading JT/s post, it looks like Bolles,Ramczyk, Lamp, or Garcia would be the best candidates for a 1st-3rd round selection. Do we need to reach or trade up? I’d guess Bolles and Ramczyk won’t be there in round 1 for us. If LT is the target, do we dare trade down into the 2nd and add draft capital? Or do we screw draft value and go for Lamp or Garcia?

  7. JT

    …continuing with game-tape observations of the LT tackle prospects in this draft class

    Top 100 talent – Chad Wheeler, Roderick Johnson (2016: Joe Haeg, Le’Raven Clark, Connor McGovern)

    Chad Wheeler – Good feet, hands, length and overall good technique for a left tackle prospect. Doesn’t appear overly athletic and strength/power might be an issue. He probably won’t weigh-in much more than 300 lbs. I thought he played Takk McKinley mostly even. He struggled against Alabama’s freaky front in week 1, but he only played the second half after battling plantar fasciitis throughout camp. Had some issues against Garrett Sickels in pass protection (talented Penn State rusher). Top 100 might be a little high, but I’ll keep him there if he has solid athletic testing. Side note – when watching Wheeler’s tape, it became apparent that Sam Darnold is awesome. He would go #1 in this draft if eligible.

    Roderick Johnson – Great size/length, good feet, and solid athleticism. He makes an eye-popping run block every now and then. However, he’s really inconsistent, doesn’t have great technique, and isn’t ready to be a blindside pass protector. He needs to measure & test as well as I think he will to keep a Top 100 grade. Experience is a factor, as this season alone he faced Marquis Haynes, Duke Ejiofor, Devonte Fields, Christian Wilkins & Taco Charlton. He was very up and down against that group, particularly in pass pro. Intriguing upside but far from a finished product.

    Mid Round (4-5) talent – Adam Bisnowaty, Dion Dawkins (2016: Joe Dahl, H. Vaitai, Brandon Shell).

    Adam Bisnowaty – Tough, edgy lineman that the Hawks like. He appears NFL ready, though it probably won’t be at LT. I don’t see special athleticism, but he uses the tools he has to be productive. He’s a good technician in the run & pass game, though isn’t incredibly coordinated. If I’m selling his athleticism short, I might bump him to a Top 100 grade after the combine.

    Dion Dawkins – Great blend of size and solid athleticism. He also moves his feet pretty well. However, he has bad hands, not locking onto defenders. It really stands out in pass protection, where he really struggled in the tapes I watched. It’s a little alarming that he isn’t more productive against the low level of competition he’s faced. Against Penn State’s Garrett Sickels, he was repeatedly embarrassed in pass pro when matched up 1-on-1. Even if he tests out well athletically, I think this is as high as I’ll grade him.

    Late Round (6-7) talent – Martinas Rankin

    Martinas Rankin – Ugh. I was excited to watch him after Tony Pauline reported that some scouts really like him. I just don’t see it at all. He’s athletic and he uses his hands pretty well, which is the only real positives I noticed. He lacks size for the LT position, and appears weak in his base. His pass protection, in particular his kick-slide, is a mess. He got smoked in pass pro by all the elite competition he faced – Carl Lawson, Arden Key, and the Alabama trio (Williams, Allen, Anderson).

    • PPast

      Thanks for this, JT. Curious to see their respective combine results.

      • JT

        The combine and pro days will be huge. Unless an offensive lineman is pretty TEF’d up, they can essentially be crossed off the list of potential targets (for better or worse)>

    • Ed

      Wow, that’s a lot time you spent. Impressive analysis.

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      Nice analysis JT. And as someone who hasn’t had the opportunity to watch much CFB this season, or spend time going through the draftbreakdown videos, I sincerely appreciate the effort.

      But I wonder about your basic premise that “LT will likely be a priority position of need for Seattle in this draft.”

      There’s no arguing that Fant struggled at times this year, particularly against power rushers. And yet, I don’t recall much criticism of Fant by any of the coaches (OC, Cable, Bevell). I remember only one post-game presser (after the TBB game I think) where PC called out Fant specifically for not playing well. Other than that, they seem to be pretty happy with how Fant performed over the course of the season, especially in light of how inexperienced he was/is.

      Fant has the length, quickness and overall athleticism to mirror speed rushers pretty well. What he seems to lack is base power to stand up to power/bull rushes, and that’s where he struggled most so far this year. He also lacks the experience to have situational awareness, both in general, and also specifically with Russell Wilson (whose scramble style requires a special kind of awareness). An offseason in a pro-level training program should add some strength to Fant’s base that will enable him to better hold up against power DEs, and the more experience he gets (again, both in general and with RW specifically), the better he should become against stunts, spins, inside-out/outside-in moves, and working in unison with the rest of the OL/offense.

      My opinion (and that’s all it is) is that SEA will give Fant the opportunity to develop into a franchise LT. In other words, the position is his to take (or lose). I’m sure they will continue to spur competition at that position (as they do with all positions), and perhaps they feel that they already have the primary competition on the roster in Odhiambo (and perhaps even Gilliam).

      I think the priority position of need along the OL is RT (or if they plan to slide Ifedi outside, then RG – or perhaps LG if they move Ifedi to tackle and Glow to the right side). Despite a nice resurgence from Gilliam after being benched in favor of Sowell, he just hasn’t developed into the kind of RT SEA had hoped he would. In particular, he seems to lack the brute strength and nasty streak you want for a run blocking RT, and he’s had more than his share of problems in pass pro as well.

      Having said all this, I do think SEA would strongly consider Chad Wheeler early on Day 3 if he’s there. As an Angeleno, I watch a lot of USC football so I’ve formed my own opinion about him and I think he’s is a decent LT prospect. He does come with some injury concerns, and he has at least one off field red flag. But he has the length, athleticism and nastiness to have a decent shot at making the roster. If he can add some strength, he might make a decent RT and/or swing. He certainly has the attitude.

      • JT

        No sweat! I love the Hawks and the draft process, and SDB has the most knowledgeable Hawks fans out there all discussing the Hawks draft options in one place.

        I hear you about the coaches, and I see where you’re coming from on Fant. They’ve only had complementary things to say about Fant, which is the norm for the coaching staff. Even when the line plays awful, they don’t fuel the media fire by criticizing the blockers.

        I personally think Fant has been the worst offensive tackle in the NFL this season. I know that’s harsh criticism, but I can’t ignore what I consistently see on tape. It’s to be expected – what Seattle has done with him this season is unheard of. An un-drafted player who didn’t even play tackle (or anything else really) in college, starting at LT in the NFL as a rookie? I’ve never seen anything like it.

        His athletic measurables are incredible, but I see a player that is dominated when run blocking and pass protecting. The learning curve is steep for any young offensive lineman, imagine what it will be like to try and develop Fant into a serviceable starter?

        I think the coaches and management would love for him to develop, so they can keep saving money on the offensive line. At the very least he’ll be given a chance to compete next season. I’m 99% confident that OT talent will be added this off-season to compete at one or both spots. If an OT the Hawks love in the draft falls to them in round 1 or 2, Fant won’t stand in the way of taking that player.

        • Nick

          Their willingness to go with Fant at LT and Gilliam at RT suggest that they want athletes that they can train up. The interior three, as Rob mentioned last year many times, then becomes where you need a clean pocket.

          If we go LT in the draft, I’m going to presume it’s for competition, but not a high pick.

      • Kelly Smith

        I remember a similar thing said about Gilliam last off season. We are in a championship window that is closing every year. I fully expect them to exhaust all avenues, even free agents.

        • Hawktalker

          I have a very similar opinion on Fant.

          Question, do you think Wheeler or Garcia are good enough to outperform Fant at LT?

          Another question, any thoughts on RB Joe Williams Utah?
          Seems to be a possibly faster version of the same build Sea has been drafting recently?

          Third Q is the charm, Would Samaje be a better choice at RB and provide more of the bruising power PC is looking for?

          • JT

            I think both Wheeler and Garcia are good enough to out-perform Fant, even though they both could use some extra time to build more muscle. Honestly I’d take almost everyone mentioned over Fant, but I digress.

            • C-Dog

              I keep going back and forth on Fant. While he is most definitely raw as raw can be, painfully so at times, I have a hard time buying into the idea they are playing him simply for his cheap upside. I tend to believe the coaches see him as one of the best five players they have on the OL. That’s not to say that they don’t go on a major quest for a LT in the offseason, and I certainly wouldn’t be disappointed if they did, but for what it’s worth, Walter Jones thinks he has the skill set to become an elite player at the position, and he’s regularly watching these games and contributing to KJR. I couple this with what the coaches have shown staying committed to him, and if I were a betting man, I’d probably be more inclined to lay the lumber on him starting at LT for the Hawks in 2017.

              • Hawktalker

                Thanks for the responses guys.

                I honesty want Fant to succeed, just just in the right time. I’m sure his potential is why he is on the team, but he totally feels like a great project put to the test way before he was ready. Committing the team to go down the road of starting a project player that causes your offense an unnecessary amount of pain just seems short-sighted. Let someone start that can pull their weight and when Fant is ready THEN start him.

                I have heard all the great discussion about the split responsibility of the bad run game falling on the RBs, OL, Russ, coaches, etc, but I believe the RBs we have are quality and our running game would be so much better with better blocking and without the holes in our OL that let The D in our backfield.

                And what would the passing game be like with middle of the league “average” pass pro? We would be killing it week in and week out.

                Any feedback on the new RB draft options I left?

                Go Hawks

                • Volume12

                  I just don’t see Seattle ever drafting a technician on the O-line. It’ll be somebody that is ‘too small,’ ‘injury prone,’ or whatever else.

                  Tough guys. Grit. The ones flying under the radar that could care less about accolades or acclaim. High football IQ. Something that selperates them. Athletic and/or physical profiles.

                  This team enjoys being coaches, and taking their time in development.

                  • Volume12

                    I’ll say it again.

                    You better have more than good tape to be a Seahawk.

                  • RealRhino2

                    I think this, more than anything else we’ve talked about in the past two years about our OL, is both the truest thing said about our OL and also the main reason our OL sucks.

                • Volume12

                  Perine could definetly be an option.

                  Joe Williamns will probably post one of the best 40 scores come combine time, but scouts are gonna hammer this kid. Did he quit on his team when he wasn’t featured? Can he win between the tackles? Cool player though. Love the burst and electricity.

                • JT

                  Thought I’d add – I started with LT also because that’s typically where the top college guys play. Coleman, Spriggs, whitehair, Thuney, Haeg and Dahl all played a different position than LT When on the field as rookies. Seattle could easily draft a college LT and immediately move him to RT or LG.

                  Btw, forgot to mention the “Top 75 Talent” section. No one in this draft, but that’s where I had Thuney & Ifedi last year.

      • peter

        JT, excellent post. CHawk I agree with much of this.

        JT if yu look back at your own notes notice how many instances you say or allude to a player not be a special athlete. I reread it all a few times and it would seem that Lamp would be the best fit out there. (As Bolles climbs up the rankings I’m less inclined to continue to talk about a player out of the Hawks range.)

        I do wonder if the best course of action is to look for a RT? I know people groan about a first pick used for a guard in Ifedi and maybe his best position is at RT. Granted it’s one game but I was pretty stoked to see that combo in the middle. I do worry about upgrading both tackle spots but wonder just the same if there will be a player in the late first/ early second (assuming some trade back)/ late second who is truly going to be an upgrade or will they just open competition with Odhiambo and another late player?

        • JT

          If the Hawks are confident enough with Fant & Odhiambo competing at LT, there will be options at RT, RG & LG. Theoretically, Ifedi, Glow & Odi all have 2-position flexibility. All 3 have a different position now than they played in college (if you call Odi a LG).

          The first RT I’ve looked at is Taylor Moton, and he’s impressive. He’s huge, and has excellent knee bend, hand use, & solid coordination. It makes him one powerful beast as a run blocker. His foot speed may not quite cut it at RT, but that’s okay. Stick him in a phone booth at RG and let him go to work (he played RG as a junior at a high level too). If the Hawks were ready to move Ifedi to RT, a ride side of Moton and Germain could move mountains running the ball.

          Regarding athleticism, it’s not always easy to get an accurate read on O-Linemen. These guys operate in a few square yards of space on most plays. Bolles & Ramczyk are high-end athletes, so it’s really noticeable with them. I like to look back after the combine/pro day testing, and see where the tape matches the athletic testing. Does a guy with a good 3-cone time have quick feet on tape? Do explosive lower body measurements translate to leg drive on tape? Does a quick 10 yard split show up when a lineman pulls across the LOS. I could be selling some guys short (like Lamp or Bisnowaty) without seeing how the specific athletic measurables translate on film.

          • CHawk Talker Eric

            Moton is one of my favorite OL prospects in this draft. I think his TEF will pass the bar. Would really like to see him and Ifedi compete for RT. Could also see him at LG.

            Moton’s best feature? His durability. He set a school record for consecutive starts. SEA could use some of that consistency.

    • Josh

      Any thoughts on Dan Skipper? I ask purely for his insane size.

      • Volume12

        He’s actually not bad beleive it or not. He’s a nasty run blocker, but he’ll struggle with the smaller, hybrid, speed rushers. Can he sink his hips enough? Leverage could be a big issue with him. Having said that, I think he’ll be an above average RT in the league.

        • Attyla the Hawk

          Have to wonder if we’re not looking for a mauler RT type out of the box.

          If so, should be preferred talent on the board after day 1.

  8. seaspunj

    thanks Rob

    i enjoy the formula

    looking past draft bust Aaron Curry in 2009 his TEF would be 3.26

    just saying as much talent the player may have eveb coaching up Curry was

    • seaspunj

      coaching up Curry unfortunately didnt work even when PC was excited to see what he had in Curry. hopefully we find that blend of TEF and hungry football players with something to prove!

    • Rob Staton

      He was a linebacker though. We can’t judge linebackers in the same way. TEF was designed ultimately to judge offensive linemen specifically. It’s based around an ‘ideal’ physical profile for a big O-liner. We can use it on D-liners simply to compare the line of scrimmage players because they compete against each other at a similar size.

      If we used TEF on cornerbacks, receivers, running backs or linebackers etc you’d get very high results providing they weren’t terrible in the bench press. It’s not a fair test because you’re comparing players at 200-250lbs instead of 285-310. TEF is specifically for LOS prospects.

      And for what it’s worth, Curry’s score given his size and position is pretty mediocre.

  9. Steele

    As interesting as it is to go back and check something like this, Rob, this is a historical footnote. Was it worth an entire piece? It confirms that TEF is for real, and kudos to you for formulating TEF, but it is a bit sad to think Edwards could have been a Seahawk, but never will be.

    • C-Dog

      I prefer to think of it this way; Frank Clark is a Seahawk.

      • Volume12

        This years Frank Clark? Solomon Thomas.

        Its crazy to think about, but had Clark finished his last year at Michigan (9 games?), and not had the red flag off the field, he would’ve got an insane amount of buzz and pre-draft hype.

        • C-Dog

          Yeah, Seattle was in great fortune to grab him. Am I insane to think that he could still become the inside rusher that fans have been pining for?

          • Kenny Sloth

            Not at all!!

            He’s rushed from even the 1tech with great success this year

            • Volume12

              He’s really a mix of Bruce Irvin and Bennett.

              If they can add or find that 275-290 lb D-lineman, they could run a variation stunts & twists with all different types of combinations, personnel wise.

              • C-Dog

                It’s a pity Quinton Jefferson couldn’t stay healthy this year because I think he was in good position to be that guy. Even though I think they add there in the off season, I kinda have a sneaky feeling Mike Bennett will have taken him under his wing, and he’s poised to come on in 2017.

    • Rob Staton


      This is a free blog dude that I do in my spare time, while juggling a young family and a full time broadcasting job.

      • Ed

        Speaking of that Rob, when are you going to add a link for people to contribute. Or even just make it an annual fee, I’m sure it would make us feel good and put a little change in your pocket (more like your wife’s pocket). ha ha.

        The moon is so bright tonight.

        • peter

          I think I bug Rob about this once per year! I have one piece of team merch and never wear it because it’s bad luck. Wish I was joking. But honestly wonder if everyone gave a couple bucks to pay for hosting fees or what not would it happen? I’d like to think so.

          Also not joking at all about my bad luck shirt.

          • Ed

            Superstitions are so funny and insane but you believe in them to the core.

            1st Hawks SB I was at a party and they lost. I vowed if they got their again, I would watch alone.

            2nd Hawks SB I watched alone. They won. Always will be the same.

            3rd Hawks SB I watched alone. Until my wife invited her friend over mid 3rd quarter. Guess what happened.

            4th Hawks will be alone. I hope……

        • LordSnow

          I’d float you some coin as well, and I don’t subscribe to a lot of good sites like fangraphs even though I read them (not religiously though), but I would to this one.

          • 503Hawk

            Rob, let me chime in. I would also love to express my appreciation for all you do.
            From all of us long timers or first timers, thanks!

            • AlaskaHawk

              I support adding a donation button. If the site allows it. Otherwise you could put up a link to a site that does allow donations.

              • Kenny Sloth

                I know that Field Gulls uses their Patreon and Kenneth encourages donations in the podcast, but I believe Rob’s said the blog doesn’t see any of those donations.

                I belive if you follow the NFL shop link from this site, a portion of the proceeds DO go the blog.

                Perfect for anyone with some haunted Seahawk Gear *cough* peter hahah

                • Rob Staton

                  The NFL store links do not work anymore I need to stress that. I haven’t received any money from them since 2014. This is a completely free blog.

                  • AlaskaHawk

                    That is why we want to help! So can you post a donation button or is that against the site rules?

                  • Volume12

                    And why change it? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

                  • LordSnow

                    Well if you ever change your format, and take donations or subscriptions, sounds like you’d have quite a few supporters.

                    Look what it did for Mike Florio.

                    • Rob Staton

                      I would love to run this site full time. But part of the quality of this community is the accessibility I think. If people had to pay the dynamic would change, the comments would likely dry up and thus a lot of the great ideas and discussions would disappear.

                      I had no idea when I started this in 2008 that we could have such a vibrant group of likeminded folk talking draft/Seahawks and to see this site continue to retain that community in a world where blogging is second to social media now — I owe it all to the people who visit and make this place what it is. The thought of charging people to contribute would, IMO, be a kick in the teeth to so many loyal visitors.

                      But if NBC want to work together like PFT then I’m open to any offers 🙂

                  • Volume12

                    100% agree. Don’t ever change my man. This blog separates you from the pack.

                • Ed

                  I don’t think so. Can you have a donate button to start, maybe that alone will put some well deserved coin in your pocket for family vacations or more trips to Seattle to watch the Hawks play.

                • peter

                  Next piece of haunted gear I get is a chunk of cheese on my head or a shirt that says “America’s team,” on it

    • Dingbatman

      Was it worth an entire piece?

      Absolutely! The beauty of this blog lies not just in the post’s themselves but in the quality of discussion in response. There are not many other blogs where I spend as much time reading the comments section as the post itself.

    • DavidM2


      Maybe you and Coleslaw should go grab a cold beer together and have a cry on each other’s shoulder…

      Kinda like this

      • Ed

        That is too funny and spot on. LMAO

      • Volume12

        Right? Edwards isn’t a Seahawk, and? Never fall in love with a prospoect! Ever. Its too fluid of a process.

    • Nathan

      You ungrateful pr#$k.

      Start your own effin blog if you’d do such a good job.

      • Volume12

        If he didn’t care for the piece, why comment on it? That was some shade.

        Then again, what would the internet and social media be if it wasn’t for b***ing, moaning, and complaining?

        • STTBM

          I see nothing wrong with stating disagreement on any part of the content of an article, but that was just disrespectful and rude on Steele’s part.

          • Frank

            It isn’t rude or disrespectful to question whether the subject is worthy of a full length article. I don’t see Steele taking any shots at Rob there he just wants the blog to be the best it can be. If commenters truly are contributors here, it should be ok to say what you want if you’re not disrespectful and Steele wasn’t.

            • Ed

              There is no need for the comment. It’s just information, if he doesn’t find it useful, why make an opinion about it. Don’t read it, nobody cares. But to go out of his way to basically say the article was a waste of time so why write it, is actually rude and disrespectful.

              Yes, this blog is all about comments and opinions, but that doesn’t mean you have to be a jerk about it.

              A. I didn’t think Edwards was that good, glad Hawks didn’t get him.

              B. Why did you write the article, the Hawks never drafted him.

              A is an opinion and ok.
              B is an opinion, but not ok.

              • Frank

                You’re blowing what he said out of proportion. I read it and see a long time commenter and community member voicing his opinion on what sort of article can lead to a good discussion, and Rob getting a little irritated but not carried away like this.

                It generated a lot of discussion already, on what this line could use and if there should be a “donation” link on the blog. My opinion on this is yes, and I would donate; my opinion on making SDB a members-only blog is that it would destroy it.

                And I think it’s worth discussing, what subjects would be worth discussing that aren’t?

                This kind of subject in the past usually would have some other topics added after it like:

                -all this clamor for a DB, could the team use a NB type with ballskills, who makes plays on the ball? Maybe even someone who doesn’t fit the usual Seahawks archetype, for size and arm length, who would be available later? Is the assumption they wouldn’t take a CB in R1 or 2 a sure thing? Petes never taken a TE there either, not counting Graham.

                -Are Richard’s blitzes working, and why is he blitzing more, will he still do this if we get an inside rush? Etc.

                • Rob Staton

                  I want to step in here and move this discussion along.

                  Ultimately, my wife is due to give birth any day to our second child. There are going to be some shorter posts soon — and days with no posts — which is unavoidable unfortunately.

                  I’m always happy to take criticism and more than happy for people to disagree with me too. I want to debate things, not covet universal approval. It is a free blog though, which I spend most of my free time working on with no financial reward (my choice) and on this occasion didn’t really appreciate Steele’s critique of what makes for a good topic. I thought it was an insight into Seattle’s approach to drafting D-liners that was interesting because of Edwards Jr’s surprising TEF score. I guess the old saying is, ‘you can’t please everybody’.

                  That said, I don’t want people attacking each other in here. That’s not what we do. So let’s look forward to the Atlanta game together and move on.

      • Frank

        This is totally uncalled for.

  10. Volume12

    This right here? Goosebumps. They are gonna ride him until the wheels fall off. How could you ever give up or not build a run game around him?

    • bankhawk

      Vol-thanks for the link to that one. I hadnt seen it yet, Brought tears to my eyes.

    • DavidM2

      Championship mindset! It’s not the size of the dog in the fight…

    • STTBM

      Damn…Rawls may have another calling–as a Preacher. I’m really pulling for him. What this kid could do with Dallas’ O-line….

      • DavidM2

        Actually, Dallas wanted him we got him.

        • Volume12

          I must of watched that 10 times. Makes a little more sense now why Lynch told him last year ‘I’m passing the torch to you.’

        • STTBM

          Those idiots should have spent a sixth or seventh round pick on him then lol! Im sure they are pretty happy with Elliot though…

  11. Ukhawk

    Rob, “You had me at ‘Hello'”… or actually ‘TEF’ last year. What a innovative way to analyse lineman. Definitely need to wait to and see on workout performances to compare prospects. Very difficult to look at out-of-date results, for example, both Myles Garrett & Caleb Brantley scored in the 80s for SPARQ back is HS. According to ESPN data, Garrett’s 40 was +5.0s which Im finding hard to believe. Clearly training, health, & maturity will change these results for a lot of players including Solomon.. At least for now the tape can tell a lot for now …

  12. 503Hawk

    Sheeze! Did you guys see the news about the Chargers?! Reminds me of what Behring tried to do. I really feel bad for the true powder blue fans and am thankful to Mr Allen and crew!


    • Ed

      Even when they were good (it’s been awhile), they have trouble filling that place. Too much fun in the sun and transplants with their favorite teams for a franchise to do well. They have tried to get a new stadium for awhile. Would be kind of cool how it looks in the soccer stadium. Genius idea and maybe what some teams should do when they build new stadiums. Error on the side of caution so 30,000 looks good and not totally empty in a 70,000 capacity stadium.

      • AlaskaHawk

        I think this will be disastrous for the Charger franchise. Two years at a stadium with 25,000 seats, half the size of the smallest football stadium. Moving to a city that barely cares about the Rams. Paying over 625 million dollars to the league for the privilege of moving. They should have at least explored moving to Las Vegas or some other big city without a team.

        • Kenny Sloth

          I’m only afraid that if Portland got a franchise, I’d forsake my Hawks.

          JK fuck stumptown. What even would their mascot be? The Tweakers?

          • AlaskaHawk

            The mighty chihuahuas. Arf arf.

          • Ed

            That would actually be cool. Save on travel time for the Hawks and have a real rivalry like Sounders and Timbers.

            Maybe the Portland Lumberjacks. Or Portland Hipsters. Or Portland Waxed Beards.

            • CDub

              Yeah, because you don’t see any hipsters wearing lumberjack clothes and sporting waxed beards in Seattle.

              Cheers from a Seahawks fan in Portland! 😉

              • Ed

                Absolutely, but the Hawks don’t need a new name.

                If so, maybe the Seattle Flannel Shirts

                • Ed

                  Or Seattle Skinny Jeans

              • peter

                Maybe a guy playing a flaming bag pipe with a darth Vader mask on a unicycle. If you live in PDX you know what I mean. As someone who lived in both cities I can honestly say Seattle doesn’t have that guy.

                • CDub

                  That would look pretty cool on the side of a helmet……So it’s been decided! The Portland Flaming Darth Vader Bagpipe Unicycle Guys!

                  • 503Hawk


      • 75franks

        i read somewhere that in SD they did a survey on what was more important to SD: comic con or the chargers. comic con won

  13. AlaskaHawk

    I was checking out the latest from Walter football, they have a scenario in which Daniel Carlson, Auburn falls to the Seahawks in the first round.

    Just Kidding! They actually have a scenario in which Seahawks pick Garrett Bolles. So it could still happen.

    Speaking of field goals, there are three decent kickers available this year. Daniel Carlson, Zane Gonzalez, and Eddy Pineiro. All of them are pretty accurate and have hit field goals over 50 yards. So lots of choices if the Seahawks want to bring someone in for competition.

    • Kenny Sloth

      There are some really good P/K this year.

    • Ed

      Please. Save the $3 million and put towards a FA.

    • Trevor

      Carlson has a crazy strong leg. Would love to see him as our 5th round comp pick that we get for Okung. That being said the Bucs took a kicker in round #2 so he may be long gone. Zane Gonzalez is a great backup option.

      I think it would be a great move to save that $3mil in cap space. It could mean the difference between Calias Campbell or not.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Having the three kickers available gives me hope that the Seahawks will take one in the later rounds. I can see one going in 3-4 but most teams will wait.

    • JT

      There’s still plenty of outlets who have Ramczyk & or Robinson above Bolles. I think his stock will keep rising through the draft process, but it’s too early to close the door on Bolles in Seattle. This tweet by Zach Whitman gives hope:

  14. Robert M

    Rob, this is a real tribute to your work developing TEF – to go back and look at a “mystery” case like this, after the fact, and see your formula validated is pretty cool.

  15. Jason

    From Matt Miller…

    Two players I’m hearing Round 1 buzz from scouts that aren’t getting talked up:

    Garett Bolles (T-Utah) and David Njoku (TE-Miami)

  16. CHawk Talker Eric

    Matt Miller, @nfldraftscout:

    Two players I’m hearing Round 1 buzz from scouts that aren’t getting talked up:

    Garett Bolles (T-Utah) and David Njoku (TE-Miami)

    • peter

      Well not getting talked up anywhere but here!

      • AlaskaHawk

        I got a feeling that Njoku will rise on the board and Howard will fall. Can’t wait for the combine results.

    • 503Hawk

      Don’t you just love our little community that Rob has created.

  17. Hoberk Unce

    Rob, since TEF has proven to be a quality tool for evaluating O-line prospects, have you given any thought to other metrics for other positions? I think since O-line has gotten a lot of focus from the Seahawks because of the on field performance, naturally your analysis has pointed in that direction. Do you see a new opportunity where a TEF-like metric could be valuable for understanding the Seahawks approach to the draft? If so, which position area(s)? And is it something the SDB community can help research?

    • Rob Staton

      Not really, only ideals. Ultimately the trenches are the only place where you can combine measurables this way because it’s generally a 1v1 battle there. All we have at other positions and trends regarding size ideals, such as height/length at corner, size and profile at RB and overall freaky athleticism at skill positions.

      • bankhawk

        Êxcellent point, Rob. We are all aware that the Hawks go into the draft eyeing players posessed of special qualities. Its just a matter of serendipity that the qualities they look for in OL prospects lend thêmselves nicely to quantification. Things they may look for at other position groups may be less suited to it. Easy enough to sort a list of top CBs by the size and length that weve come to view as earmarks of the prototypical Seahawky candidate, but other factors, such as grit, motor etc. will remain subjective or anecdotal.

        Anybody out thêre care to tackle a diferent position group and list your top choices this year as per whatever criteria you have listed (bearing in mind we want to view it through the lênse of any consistent leanings JS/PC have shown over the years)?

        As always, Rob-thanks so much for your untiring effort, insightfulness and ability to foster such a unique online community. I really look forward to the comments section at SDB-it actually brings me down to see what pases for dícussion on some other sites!

        Keep the faith yall-Go Hawks!

        • Rob Staton

          Thanks man 🙂

  18. 503Hawk

    Are you going to have one last article before the game so that all of us can give our opinions / predictions?

    • Rob Staton

      Article today… and an open thread tomorrow.

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