Pete Carroll’s error could cost the team a major draft pick
This is not, you might say, the way to start a ‘Championship off-season’.
Chris Mortensen is reporting that Seattle could be penalised heavily for failing to properly disclose a knee injury to Richard Sherman. Pete Carroll mentioned in an interview on ESPN 710 that Sherman had been troubled by a MCL issue. This was never disclosed on the injury report.
Nothing is official yet and Mortensen admitted in a separate Tweet that a hefty fine could be an alternative. Danny O’Neil rightly points out the Jets were merely fined for a similar breaking of the rules.
The problem is — Sherman didn’t participate in a handful of practises under the ‘NIR’ (not injury related) tag. So even though he didn’t miss a snap on the field, this isn’t a good look. The Seahawks are also seen as serial offenders, having already been deducted a fifth round pick in September for violating NFL-NFLPA work rules.
The NFL rules are very clear on reporting injuries:
“All players who have significant or noteworthy injuries must be listed on the practise report, even if the player takes all reps in practise, and even if the team is certain that he will play in the upcoming game. This is especially true of key players…”
Even if Sherman was 100% likely to play in a game, the injury still had to be noted.
Adding to the situation is the fact Seattle actually included Sherman on the injury report in week 12 citing an ankle problem. Why was this injury listed and not the knee at any point during the season?
It’d be a catastrophe to lose such a valued pick right at the start of a crucial off-season. With several notable needs, this was set up to be a crucial draft. It’s now possible they’ll pick at #26 and not again until #90.
If the punishment is administered, at the very least you lose a possible impact player. At worst, you’re forced to be aggressive for the wrong reasons. For example:
— Will losing a second rounder dictate what you do at #26? If one need is considerably greater than the other, can you risk waiting until #90 to address it? Is your hand being forced in round one?
— Would they have to be aggressive in free agency? This has never been a reckless front office but if the options are limited in the draft what other choice do they have? This is a team in the middle of a Championship window with needs to fill.
— If you wanted to move up in round two (as they did a year ago to get Jarran Reed) you couldn’t do it. It’s too early to get too deep into scenarios — but imagine if the Seahawks were able to fill a need with Budda Baker, Garett Bolles or Zach Cunningham in round one and Kevin King was available in the 40’s. How much of a boost would it be to land two really good players to the roster like that?
— In order to make up for the loss of the second rounder, they might feel they have to move down from #26 just to accumulate further stock. Maybe they’d do that anyway — but you’re trying to fill key needs with lower picks.
Why wasn’t Richard Sherman properly listed on the injury report? It’s such a simple yet serious question. What a horrendous mistake this could be.
The sheer fact Mortensen is reporting it could be a second rounder makes you fear the worst. Why else would this information be in the public domain? Is it realistic to think a slap on the wrist and a fine is possible?
The Seahawks have lurched from the drama surrounding Richard Sherman’s challenging of Darrell Bevell on the sideline and then in the media, to a heavy playoff defeat in Atlanta and now this.
For a team needing a strong off-season, this is arguably the worst possible start.
Before this news broke the plan was to discuss mock drafts posted today by Mel Kiper and Daniel Jeremiah. It’s something we can come back to tomorrow.
Interesting tweet from Sowell, basically saying the Seahawks are under a larger microscope from the league than is given to other teams he has played for.
He also JUST said that OTA’s in Seattle were the easiest and slowest he’s ever been a part of.
What a load of crap this is.
Already today there’s been articles surfacing about how the Colts (Luck), Jaguars (Bortles), & Jets all either got a slap on the wrist (fine) or nothing at all. I don’t care to know whether the NFL has it out for Seattle or not it just sucks. I’ve been getting really excited about the possibilities Seattle has in the first 3 rounds and the first two picks in particular.
Yeah Connor also had a comment about how they are treated different by officiating. Hmm.
Whey you get caught once, you get a slap on the wrist. You get caught multiple times, you need more than a slap. Like NE, they are pushing the limits on legal/illegal.
Actually Belichick overcompensates the other way because he too sees the absurdity of providing a pinpoint precision template on how opposing players should tee off on your own. So he loads the injury report down with anything his players could possibly call an injury, plus the kitchen sink. The end result is that his injury reports cover the bases on NFL requirements, but are generic and vague enough to prevent the other side from using the injury report to game plan around exploiting and exacerbating clandestine injuries he’d rather not have to disclose to the world.
Deflating news really.
There’s no 4th Rd pick (traded to the Patriots) so if the NFL is going to come down harder on the Seahawks than the 5th rd pick its going to have to be at least a 3rd rounder. Gut Punch.
Holding out hope for the fine is that’s still plausible.
First the bizarre (in terms of timing and his character) Perrish Cox signing, now this. Not the greatest way to start your offseason, Seahawks. Also not the greatest way to endear fans who actually pay attention to details.
Has Perrish Cox re-offended since the last time the team signed him? If not, you’re just blowing smoke. The team re-signed Tony McDaniel last off-season too. He hadn’t re-offended either.
Terrible management on Seahawks part. This team’s hubris is their greatest strength and their greatest weakness
What hubris?
Wow Sowell is going off!
On Twitter?
Yes
The only tweet from him since Jan. 17 was two hours ago and said, “I wish I could sing…seriously jealous of people that randomly dominate karaoke” That doesn’t seem like he’s going off.
He said what’s new? The Seahawks ares under a microscope. He could tell the difference right away compared to the other teams he played for.
Said the 1st time he noticed it was different was when he got 3 holding calls in one game and had only gotten 3 total in the previous 4 years.
I actually really like Sowell? I know he wasn’t very good, but fantastic character. I kinda hope he sticks around and improves.
Me too. Good depth if nothing else and a veteran presence on what has to the youngest O-line in the league.
You have to look under his Tweets & Replies Bobby K
To use a wrasslin’ term, the Seahawks are the heels of the NFL.
I’m not sure Sowell’s input is helping the situation to be honest…
Would you cafe to elaborate?
The Seahawks are in a position where they’re going to have to talk themselves out of a difficult situation — and one of their players is basically talking up a conspiracy theory on Twitter.
Realistically they should all shut up and hope it blows over. Get Sherm playing every single snap in the Pro Bowl, then make a case to the league behind the scenes that Pete was just over-exaggerating in defence of a player. It wasn’t a *real* injury, just a minor strain that needed strapping etc. etc.
I really don’t understand why the 5th rounder wouldn’t turn into their 3rd rounder instead? That would be much easier to stomach.
On one hand, we can say the NFL “has it in” for us. However, looking in the mirror, Pete Carroll has nobody to blame for himself. If he hadn’t (unsolicited) revealed the Sherman injury, we’d all be focused on who we would take in the first AND second round, as opposed to hoping we don’t lose that pick.
Might not have a choice but to trade #26 into the 2nd round to pick up a 3rd or 4th round pick. Even with that, we’d be in worse shape than we were yesterday.
Certainly a deflating feeling…
That’s not the point of the NFL “having it in” for us. The point is, they have a microscope on this organization, treat it differently than others, and so Pete has to dot every i and cross every t or they are going to get him whether he’s doing something deliberately or not. They are the modern day Raiders, and the NFL would love nothing better to keep the reins on them.
He needs to put in his own Sarbanes Oxley rules to make sure even a hangnail is reported.
I would think there is a chance they trade back even if the league doesn’t touch the second round pick. If it comes down to taking that pick away, it would almost be a certainty, and it would have to feel like Seattle would lose bargaining power if that would be their goal.
The operative word in Mortensen’s report right now is “could” not will. If this becomes a reality, I would have to expect the Seahawks to fight this. So nothing is certain, it’s all just incredibly annoying.
Regardless, what a crap way to start the 2017 offseason.
I hope they fine Pete and the Seahawks a million dollars (something I don’t care about), as opposed to taking the pick (or at least as high as the second rounder).
A 2nd is a guy you expect to come in and help and not some guy like Vannett or Rees who are taken at the end of the 3rd last year who pretty much waste/develop for a year.
I think it was David Hsu that made the point, fining money bags Paul Allen and Pete Carroll may not be as much of a deterrent at taking away a pick.
A few things.
1. If Richard Sherman plays next week in the pro bowl, it probably goes to strengthen the argument Seattle would make that his injury was not serious, and their HC over-embellished.
2. Danny O’Neill has a point about the Jets, and there is no indication Indy is going to be fined for not disclosing Luck’s injury. These also give grounds for Seattle to fight this, if it comes down to it.
3. There is an outside chance this is going to end of a much ado about nothing in a few weeks.
4. If the NFL lays down this hard penalty, Seattle and the league might mitigate it to a lessor pick.
The NFL has already set a precedent on what the penalty is for not reporting a players injury, so if Seattle is penalized in a much harsher way, then there is something wrong with that. The contact during practice violations are something completely different, and they have already be penalized for that. The Jets paid a fine, and nothing, as of yet, has happened with the Colts, for not disclosing a players injury, so why should the Seahawks be penalized more harshly for committing the same offense?
Meant that as a reply to bobbyk, my bad!
Does “Win Forever” include honestly addressing your weaknesses? Because PC certainly has a weakness when it comes to compliance issues. Do the Hawks have a guy empowered by PC to say “hey Pete, we’re really close to the line here. This could be a problem, you need to reel yourself in” ? And if not, why not? As we’re finding out, the cost is just too high not to.
I disagree. The best coaches need to be at the forefront of pushing the envelope to gain competitive advantages. Under reporting or obscuring injuries, has long been an area where coaches push this envelope and take that risk so as to not leave themselves more exposed and shorthanded than they already are. Just look at Belichick’s record in this regard, far worse than Pete’s. Pushing the envelope and occasionally overstepping and crossing the line is part of doing business among the best. The threat of taking a 2nd round pick is just ridiculous though and there was never any indication the cost would be this high for an infraction that incurs a fine at most.
It might be a couple weeks and maybe until after the Super Bowl before the NFL reveals the penalty for failing to disclose Sherman’s knee injury so the uncertainty regarding our early picks will hang over our discussions here for a while.
Yuck
Pete shouldn’t have blurted this out, but I will add that someone more familiar with these rules should have stressed to him repeatedly that this is info that cannot be divulged. I imagine this is quite common for players that aren’t pulled from games and whose injuries are not very noticeable, MCL, contusions being high on that list. That intimate setting of sitting down with Brock and Salk at the VMAC and wanting to defend his scrutinized player after a tough loss left someone with Pete’s candor vulnerable to step in it, and step in it he did. That all said, prior history or not, and Bradley Sowell argued on twitter the prior history is built on comparative BS, going from no penalty last year for Colts on Luck injury to 2nd rounder for Seahawks is outrageous.
Them even losing the 5th round pick in the 1st place was stupid. Excessive contact? In a contact sport? When did the NFL become so damn soft? It’s no wonder why injuries seem to occur more frequently.
I get that the NFL has to do something, being repeat offenders although again, that punishment for the 5th rounder is jaw dropping honestly. A 2nd round pick seems mighty excessive. Guess you can’t be a players coach. Do what’s best for the brand. And not your teams.
“When did the NFL become so damn soft? It’s no wonder why injuries seem to occur more frequently.”
That appears to be one of the biggest concessions that NFLPA fought for in the last CBA. I’m not smart enough to literally know that less practices = more injuries, but the circumstantial evidence to the layman fan’s eye sure seems to support that. Major blunder by the NFLPA. Less practice time = more injuries? That will significantly shorten players’ earning potential.
You can do all the burpees in the world. Run, jump, lift, squat, anything and everything. There’s only 1 way to get into football shape. That’s by putting the pads on, strapping on that helmet, and getting hit.
Dave Wyman has made this point repeatedly throughout the last few years.
I can see both sides of it. Especially when you hear some of the old stories about coaches who had players in full pads banging twice a day all through OTAs.
IMO more injuries are occurring because the NFL has no interest in doing anything about PEDs, players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they’ve ever been and they’re being trained how to harness that athleticism better than ever. It’s a bunch of ubermensch out there smashing each other to pieces.
What do you think the league should be doing Ishmael? Do you think they’re not testing? Testing isn’t stringent enough? Are the penalties not harsh enough? What more could they be doing that they’re not doing now?
It wasn’t their first off-season infraction. If it was, they wouldn’t have lost that pick. Anyone remember them getting in trouble in the off-season about 3-4 years ago because of contact?
The Colts have no infractions history like we did. it was Luck that first time. That’s all. We have two separate off-season violations and now this.
Contact in shorts and shells. Glorified walkthroughs. Laughable that they fine teams for this. Or take away draft picks.
I agree. But it’s happened twice. And now the Sherman thing.
No I know ya agree, I’m just saying how stupid it is and there shouldn’t have been previous infractions due to the ridiculous nature of ‘breaking the rules.’
Agreed. Especially when players like Sowell talk about it actually being easier in Seattle.
The problem is, Seattle has been caught breaking the rules four times in four years now. And each punishment has been an increase on the last.
By all means argue about the rules in place — but it’s up to the Seahawks to avoid this kind of thing happening. And if they lose a pick for something as careless as mismanagement of an injury report — the finger has to be point squarely at the team, not the league.
This is relatively unrelated to the other “rule breaks”– particularly given the other teams not disclosing either.
Also, if Sherman had a legitimate non-football related reason to miss practice, even more so. That will likely be presented in defense of the team. If no time is missed, where do you draw the line?
So-and-so got an owwie?
If I was the Seahawks and get a penalty for this, I would literally post every single scrape or bruise, spam the NFL with ridiculousness as a response. You wanna get petty? Let’s go full 100%.
And the league will say, ‘go ahead’. Better that than not posting injuries, per the rules. Had the Seahawks been pedantic and posted every scrape and bruise in 2016, they wouldn’t be losing their second round pick.
It might be unrelated to the other rule breaks, but if you’re consistently breaking rules the punishment is going to increase.
That is why the Patriots basically put their entire team on the injury report to avoid anything like this.
Heck can even post injury as complete vagueness: remember Gronk’s “chest” injury that turned out to be a herniated disc requiring surgery. Could have listed Sherm as probable every week with a “leg” injury. I hope next year to spite the league every player is listed on the injury report
They could’ve done that. So why didn’t they? Just put ‘leg’ on the injury report. Better that than lose a second round pick.
I’m with Rob here and while I’ll forever be grateful to Pete & John for putting a team together to get us a SB win, if we do lose a 2nd draft pick out of this, it’s definitely our fault, specifically Carroll, for choosing to ignore the league’s requirements.
Deeply, deeply, stupid. Players play injured constantly, there’s not a single man suited up on gameday who’d be at better than 90% shape save maybe the kicker and punter.
The Hawks didn’t want to list Sherman as injured because then teams really would have started going after him, especially on dinky little sharp-breaking routes designed to test Sherm laterally. Half of what makes Sherman so great is his mystique, it’s why even a guy like Rodgers doesn’t even bother testing him. With no Earl, and the left side of the field starting to open up, the defence could have been shaken up in a big way.
There’s such a simple solution to this, it’s follow the league’s glorious tradition of don’t ask don’t tell.
‘There’s such a simple solution to this, it’s follow the league’s glorious tradition of don’t ask don’t tell.’
Bingo.
What they don’t know won’t hurt them.
Actually, now that I think about it, that’s the whole problem isn’t it? The NFL must know everything. Wonder when they’ll put mics in the locker room and offices.
If you think of the NFL as the Stasi, it all becomes easier to understand.
This is mental stuff though. Pete needs to get a grip sometimes and just not talk. You can’t actually go telling the truth, especially when the league has you under a microscope.
(1) MAYBE, just maybe, PC heard rumors or faint rumblings that the NFL might investigate them and by confessing, he hoped to lessen the penalties, by self reporting? If that were the case, after this obvious oversight by one or more of his subordinates (I’m sure PC doesn’t do injury reporting himself), would PC really be as “dumb” as being said on this blog?
(2) I’ve often thought that the Seahawks need to add another assistant coach whose *primary duties* include assurance of *COMPLIANCE* to all of the NFL/CBA rules. They obviously need someone watching out for this kind of stuff. Pay for him out of the savings from not being fined $ and draft picks. That could only help in the future seasons.
(3) An obvious way of NOT having this kind of problem with injury reporting is to list every player on the active roster that has so much as a hangnail. Almost every player has to deal with minor injuries throughout the season, were exactly is the “serious injury” line and exactly what injuries have to be reported, and which can go unreported? Not sure that is very clear at all. Also, Goddell and Hitler must be related.
We already lost a 5th rounder, and now possibly a second rounder…man this is awful, just terrible!!! Who knows if the NFL won’t tack on additional fines to the organization and PC because of this controversy. The simple truth is that if Sherm really had a significant MCL injury then it had to be reported. On the other hand, if the Hawks are faking an injury to Sherm as a cover up to explain away his actions against reporters and coaches, then that’s a potential collosal hit in the draft for a false statement. Either way, this will force their hand should they lose a second rounder. They will either have to be more aggressive in FA or move down to acquire more picks. They should receive a couple comp picks for losing Irvin, Okung, and Sweezy, which might lessen the blow. The draft is critical to maintaining a young team and a winning franchise. Free agency is necessary but if you dip too much into it you can often be stuck with large contracts eating up cap space and your team will get older in the process. Not a good start to another critical offseason.
Nope, the 2nd rounder will take place of 5th.
Good to know they won’t take away both picks. Hopefully it doesn’t happen at all, but I’m pretty sure it will. Let’s hope the Hawks get some decent comp picks to make up for their reporting omission.
This really drives me crazy because it cements 2 things that have been nagging me…
1. There is something wrong going on with the Seahawks. It feels broken.
2. The League really does have something against this team, if in fact they lose a 2nd rounder.
Really a frustrating bit of news that puts even more hurdles in front of this team.
Regarding point number 2…
Don’t break the rules, especially when it’s something as simple as correctly filing an injury report.
Exactly. A lot of comments condemning the league. Don’t break the rules and you won’t get punished. Like demonstrators that get arrested want to complain about the police. Get out of the street when you are asked to and you won’t get arrested.
True but every other team found to be violating the injury report policy has either gotten a small fine or nothing at all. For the Hawks to lose a second rounder would be highly inequitable.
Here’s the point though…
This isn’t a one-off punishment of a second round. This is an escalation punishment based on four examples of the rules being broken. In 2012 they were docked OTA’s, in 2014 they received a fine, in 2016 it was a large fine and a 5th rounder, now it’s looking like they’ll upgrade that 5th rounder to a 2nd.
This is a punishment designed for a serial offender.
I get the idea. Repeat offenders could harsher punishments. But to jump from a 5th rounder to a 2nd seems a little ridiculous.
Especially considering there have been cases where a team does the same thing and doesn’t even get fined. Taking this offense out of context, it’s either a small fine or NOTHING. But for a team that’s done some other minor infractions (and the other infractions are minor), it’s a second round pick… Doesn’t that seem a little excessive to you?
But is it ridiculous though? Because fines and a 5th rounder haven’t prevented Seattle bending the rules. Maybe this will send the message?
And the point isn’t that teams have received a lesser punishment. This is about incremental punishments after four separate offences specifically by the Seahawks. The Jets receiving a fine under Eric Mangini — it’s a first offense. This is Seattle’s fourth flaunting of the rules in four years!
Sorry, but people get punished all the time even if they don’t break the rules. Or they break the same rule as someone else and get penalized ten times worse than the other person.
This is the problem with rules and interpretation.
And protest.
“Don’t protest in the street.”
-kneels down during anthem.
“Not like that!”
It’s not illegal to kneel during the anthem. It is illegal to sit in the street. And yes, different judges can dole out different punishments, but not to the extent you make.
You won’t get 20 years for smoking a joint. But if you have been busted before and continue to get busted, it will get harsher.
I get that it’s to protect players, but why can’t they have an injury report that goes to the league office and doesn’t get made public in the media?
The last thing you want is your opponents knowing.
I would always strap my shoulder when playing rugby, but made sure I did it in the change rooms, out of view of the opposition. Smart players will run at the bad shoulder if they know it’s bad.
There was a classic case of that in Australian football this year. Bloke injured his shoulder pretty badly, but was desperately trying to come back for the Grand Final – the AFL equivalent of the Superbowl. Deliberately put a huge amount of strapping on his un-injured shoulder, and an opponent tried to give it a huge bump almost straight away. Caused a big fight. It’s grubby, but there are always players who will try and attack an injury.
Hot Take.
In a few weeks, this will be much ado about nothing. Seattle keeps it’s pick. The alternative is way too stupid for my brain to comprehend.
26: R1P26
CB KEVIN KING
WASHINGTON
58: R2P26
S OBI MELIFONWU
UCONN
90: R3P26
LB ALEX ANZALONE
FLORIDA
105: R3P41
OT DAVID SHARPE
FLORIDA
184: R5P39
EDGE JOSH CARRAWAY
TCU
211: R6P26
RB MATTHEW DAYES
NC STATE
229: R7P8
WR GABE MARKS
WASHINGTON STATE
Seattle fills it’s top need by taking the best outside corner left on it’s board. King should have no problem being targeted a lot as a rookie, as he was all of last year playing opposite of Sidney Jones. Seattle misses out on Reddick, but grabs a freak athlete for a safety in Melinfonwu. Seattle grabs two Gators in R3 in versatile LB Anzalone, and OT Sharpe. Seattle grabs rush LB prospect Carraway in R5, and add RB and WR depth in Dayes and Marks in the late rounds.
I hope you’re right about it blowing over — I suspect the fact it has been mentioned in the national media means it’s basically a precursor to it happening unless the Seahawks do a great job talking their way out of it.
Danny O’Neil just brought that up on the radio. It’s definitely possible. I think it’s also possible Mortensen might have embellished the scenario a bit, giving the worst case scenario.
I think if Sherman is plays in the Pro Bowl, that strengthens Seattle’s ability to talk themselves out of it.
The irony for me, when I was listening to Carroll talking about it on Monday, is that my mind immediately went to the place that is was embellishing to make his player look more sympathetic to the fans. If this is more true than not, and the league is ready to throw down this kind of punish for a “repeat offender,” good golly, this is beyond stupid. My mind can’t even fathom it.
The problem is, here’s the rule on practise reports:
“All players who have significant or noteworthy injuries must be listed on the practise report, even if the player takes all reps in practise, and even if the team is certain that he will play in the upcoming game. This is especially true of key players…”
It’s not just a case of Sherman being hurt and not missing time. The Seahawks are required, per the rules, to make notice of an injury whether he’s 100% playing on Sunday or not. And Carroll called the injury “significant” in the interview — his words.
Aside from Pete mentioning this in the conference, what evidence is there that there was ever anything wrong with Sherman’s knee?
Is any more evidence required?
I mean, I suppose there’s a chance Pete made up a knee injury in a bare-faced lie to cover for Sherman — but I think it’s highly, highly unlikely.
My guess, if that if Seattle is going to fight this, which if the league is trying to put out the early word that the penalty is going to be this stiff, Seattle surely should, they will argue that Sherman’s injury wasn’t “significant” or “noteworthy” enough to list, that their HC impulsively overstretched the truth in an attempt to stick up for one of his core players.
Didn’t it come out a couple season’s ago that RW was playing hurt for the last portion of the season, but was never listed as injured?
The problem they’ll have is if it is a MCL — as Carroll asserted — good job convincing the NFL it wasn’t significant or noteworthy.
Carroll didn’t just use a word to describe this injury (significant) he specifically stated it was a MCL.
I just think that Carroll could have been mistaken in his injury claim about Sherman. In other words there was not a serious injury, and Pete was misinformed. He looked pretty aloof during the press conference when he was commenting about Sherman’s “MCL injury”.
The moment he mentioned MCL, the horse bolted.
He could have also realized that he just confessed his organizations guilt in the matter.
Yup, that would make it a tough sell. It probably comes down to that.
I was listening to the interview when it happened and he not only called itv”significant” he said it “was the same thing as Russell” and then they gave him a practice off every week and called “not injury related” so I think the league feels this is an intentional scofflaw situation which requires punishment to get the team’s attention like they did to the Patriots.
A couple players banged heads without helmets and got hurt which led to the 5th-round penalty.
Unless there was, in fact, no MCL injury that the league can determine existed. I mean, this whole situation as weird as #### on so many levels, and I lay a it on Carroll, but we don’t know if there was scofflaw activity or simple embellishment. If they did intentionally cover up a significant injury, why on earth would he reveal that? Is it simply a slip of the mind on a radio show? Or did his embellish the significance to help gain sympathy for one of his prized players, no concidering the implications?
There did feel like was weird uncomfortable back stepping a bit in the press conference.
Either way, if the issue is whether there was a coverup of a significant injury or an embellished truth from the coach, it looks really bad. So, at least in my mind ,this is kinda horse #### either way, whether they loose a pick or not. I love Pete as much as anyone, but this is a mess, and isn’t a great sign for the future.
We have to hope that is the case (no MCL and proof) but Carroll mentioning it in the piece is troublesome. Had he just said ‘he had a knee issue’ it wouldn’t be so bad. He might even be able to say, ‘I meant ankle’ — the injury that was actually reported. But he very specifically referred to a significant MCL.
I like your mocks C-Dog. Keep ’em coming.
Couple of alternatives to consider:
SDST OG Nico Siragusa instead of David Sharpe
HOU OLB Tyus Bowser instead Josh Carraway
Thanks!
For OL, I kinda think they look for OT over OG, and I’ve been a Josh Carraway fan all season, don’t want to jump over that bandwagon just yet.
Sometimes they do (Ifedi, Carp, Britt), but sometimes they take college O’s (Glowinski, Moffitt). and every now and then they’ll take a DL (Sweezy and Novak).
No worries on Carraway. I don’t really have a strong opinion either way. Just tossing out another possible Day 3 EDGE candidate.
*OG’s
I am skeptical of this whole “Sherman knee injury” story. It could be true, and the Seahawks could be punished by league, but I am curious to learn if PC was even correct in stating that Sherman was actually ever suffering with a knee injury. Maybe he mixed up players, and their ailments? If there is a medical doctor in the Seahawks FO who, after performing tests and MRI’s, said, “Richard Sherman has an MCL injury, and shouldn’t play on it,” and that information was withheld, then I think the NFL has reason to seek punishment. This is going to be something to monitor, but not in a fun way.
According to the rules on practise reports, even if a player is 100% expected to play — if they have an injury it must be reported. So unfortunately, even a doctor clearing Sherman to play in this instance, the injury had to be reported.
And sadly, the Seahawks listed an ankle injury for Sherman in week 12. Which adds to the problem. They had no reason not to include the knee.
If they mentioned an ankle injury during week 12, then why not include the knee? To me, it just seems like too much of a careless blunder to make.
Didn’t want to give away too much to opposing teams. Calculated risk, that would have been totally fine if Pete had kept his mouth shut.
Agreed.
Or if you are going to ignore a rule that’s pretty straightforward and simple to understand, and you are going to ignore it week after week, it doesn’t seem wise to go on a radio broadcast and admit in so many words that you did.
OTOH, you should be able to make a pretty strong argument that if you really intended to circumvent the NFL’s reporting rules, you wouldn’t have listed the ankle.
But it’s not any injury. It’s significant or noteworthy injuries:
“All players who have significant or noteworthy injuries must be listed on the practise report, even if the player takes all reps in practise, and even if the team is certain that he will play in the upcoming game. This is especially true of key players…”
This will come down to the significance/noteworthiness of Sherman’s injury – and that determination will be made by (1) medical experts arguing both sides, and (2) Sherman’s play.
Strangely, the fact that SEA reported his ankle injury in Week 12 might help their case – the ankle injury was significant and noteworthy to justify reporting it, but the knee injury wasn’t.
Pete Carroll himself admitted it was a significant injury in the interview that directly shook the hornets nest.
He also stated it was ‘a significant MCL’.
The Seahawks can try and argue the toss on this — but Carroll scored a major own goal with his language.
You’re right Rob, Pete made a turd sandwich by talking about this. Hopefully no one has to eat it.
It seems like a lot of lawyering to be done…”significant,” injury…so Pete says it so it must be true? But he played, so define “significant.”. That’s my point how does the league determine that?
Alternately could this team get real with the violations? I love Pete but shut it. Seriously. No one cares until they do that Sherman had an MCL of varying degrees.
If Seattle contests, the issue would be whether the injury was significant or noteworthy enough to list.
Here is why the Seahawks will get hit for this, and why the Pats got a big fine and lost draft picks for Deflategate.
Total NFL revenue is about 12 billion for 2015
annual betting (mostly illegal) is estimated to be about $95 billion a year.
The Injury report is about the SPREAD. And not the spread offence.
the PERCEPTION that 2 teams have repeated violations that gives them a perceived advantage has to be dealt with. To make it worse, both teams have won the Super Bowl recently. And punishing 2 successful and widely disliked teams is applauded by the other 30 fan bases. Do not kid yourself about what this is really about, and no one in the NFL or from the media companies that cover them. It is the dark and dirty secret that the “wholesome” Shield does not want to talk about. Like concussions and PED’s. Remove gambling from the NFL and you will see a serious decline in interest and revenue for the NFL. If revenues fell, maybe the commissioner of the “non profit” NFL would have to take a pay cut from $44 million a year, or more probably, lose his job. How many jobs is Roger qualified for at $44 million/year?
I don’t gamble (math geek – too many variables), but I know quite a few people who watch because they bet. And always follow the money when you have a situation that does not seem right.
The Hawks have been caught a few times stretching the rules, and getting caught counts. Every team cheats, even though some do more than others. But all that counts is how many times you are caught.
They do not have anyone else but themselves to blame. They did it, they made it even worse to talk about it without being asked, and they will pay for it.
That’s an interesting fresh take Hawk Eye.
I meant to say that no one in the NFL or the media that covers them will discuss the gambling aspect
and then started the next sentence before I finished the thought……
Bullseye!
That is exactly what this is about. The only reason the injury report even exsists it for the Fantasy Player and Gamblers. If the vegas books did not need to set odds there would not even be an injury report.
Still just wake up guys and obey the rules. Simple really!
Las Vegas Raiders coming at ya fast
There is a report that Roger “God”dell might make it illegal for NFL players to be within gambling establishments in Vegas…… when they play the future LV Raiders. What in the hell are players supposed to do? Everywhere is a gambling establishment…. food, drinks, bars, casinos, strip clubs airport…. LOL
maybe Warren Sapp can set up an escort service to entertain them???
Warren Sapp the guy who can tell if Seattle is tipping their hand on a run or pass play, but needs TC to tell ’em what split to get into?
Come on bruh. They teach you that at a HS level. Read the knuckles.
The NFL is full of contradiction. You get fined for speaking, you get fined for not speaking. It endorses alcohol & punishes the results of it’s use. It professes player safety and denies long term health consequences to those same players. Bottom line is it’s a money making business and that’s the only reason it exists.
Separately whether we like it or not, trouble follows Pete Carroll because he operates near/at/over the edge. As a UW fan I was pissed that he got out of USC right before the hammer blow. As a Seahawk fan I overcame that loathing and love the guy.
Seemingly the greatest crime you can commit in this country is to be honest or publicly admit a mistake. It’s worse than murder. Someone wrote it earlier that the NFL standard operating procedure is don’t ask don’t tell. They don’t want to know but once they do public relations demands a response.
Hopefully this blows over but regardless, keep the draft out of it. If there needs to be some bullsheet punishment then it goes to Pete.
To be honest I am not sure what is more stupid. Not putting Sherm on the injury report or not doing it and they telling the whole world that Sherm has a serious injury.
Baffling situation really and an embarrassment for this organization. You can blame the NFL if you want but rules are rules. Come on how hard is it to write a guys name down on the report then list him as probable.
“Baffling situation really”. Exactly Trevor.
Broadcasting, literally broadcasting, that you didn’t follow the rules seems a lit more stupid to me.
If they lose a second round pick, they only have themselves to blame. Pete and John do a lot of things well, but this is just stupid. NIR – so he took mental health days? And then you tell everyone that he had a MCL? I’m not sure it was done with the intent to deceive but I don’t see how you can explain this away.
Players and front office need to get it together!
Let the adversity begin.
Get ready for the Hawks to be dropped to the second tier in power rankings.
‘They’re done, they had a nice run’ i can hear it now.
They might be if they can’t right the ship. The team has been in disarray since the intercepted pass by Butler. The last two years have been down more than up and left more than right. Players want more money, more respect etc…
JS has a lot to do this offseason (get a RB, some line help and more DB).
PC has a lot to do this offseason (get everyone back on track to one goal and motivate all, not just the rookies).
Players have a lot to do this offseason (get hungry again).
The great Patriots dynasty has 1 Super Bowl victory in the last 11 years
Pittsburgh has 2 and NYG has 2 in that same time frame
Both Hawks and Pats are 1-2 during that same span
Hawks can get back there, but if they can get back 2 more times in the next 5 years people will use the D word and forget about 2016
not an easy thing, 31 other teams trying to get there, some never get it right, never will
the sky is not falling, but getting beat happens, you just have to try again
Yeah, I don’t get it. Our defence was lights out before Earl’s injury. I mean, tremendously good. What do you expect when you lose a hall of fame player? He’s coming back and we will only add pieces. Stop spazzing out.
Thank you for bringing some much-needed pêrspective on this really distressing situation Hawk Eye. In a time when its hard to deny that thêre has been something about the Hawks that has been feeling *not quite right* since the SB loss to the Pats two years ago, it feels like thêres so much to be done in this offseason and a real sênse of urgency to it all. Ive been really hyped at the prospect of a dêfensive reload and cônsolidating the run game and moving further towards solidifying the o-line.
Then this! The thought of losing our 2nd in a draft so full of opportunity seems devastating nearly to the point of *ledge-time*. Your post made me feel a whole lot better.
The Hawks have proven over the last 5-6 years to be one of the better teams in the NFL. All teams make mistakes, all teams have some years better than others. But it is fair to say they are one of the best 3 or 4.
Pittsburgh has been very inconsistent this year, Ben had a so so year, and yet they might make the Super Bowl. They get one or 2 breaks on Sunday and they can beat NE.
The Hawks have about a dozen blue chip talents, some promising young players, and a bunch of JAGs. They can win 13-14 games next year or they might win 9. Maybe they get a couple good rookies and a couple young players take a big step, and they have limited injuries. Or, maybe they have some big injuries and it is a bad year. You need to be good and lucky to win the Super Bowl. They almost lost the game in 2013 vs SF. Just a matter of inches between Sherman deflecting the pass and Crabtree catching it. Good teams take advantage of luck. But smetimes you need a little luck too.
ENJOY THE RIDE
We have a chance to win it all next year and for a while
As long as they have Russell Wilson playing, they should be in contention every year. The defense is always going to be one of the top ones in the league show long as Pete Carroll is coach. Any of these pundits who think the Hawks are done, are saying it simply out of their dislike of the team and have been biding their time for the opportunity. Seeing them lose to Atlanta like that was their moment.
fans of 24 teams were playing the schaudenfreude game last weekend
and there is a lot of joy whenever the Hawks or Pats lose
they would not be hated if they were not very good
Can’t wait until your next piece, Rob, so we can get back to talking about players instead of what-ifs and penalties.
For my part, depending on FA and trades, of course, and despite the recent mocks coming out, I think our first pick is going to be a tackle, probably Bolles. I’ve run all kinds of draft simulations, and no matter how you slice it there should be DBs we like in R2, whether that’s T. White, King, R. Douglas, Tankersley, Adoree, Sutton, etc. Many or most will be gone, but not all.
But none of the guys that are currently thought of as the top tackles (Ramczyk, Bolles, Robinson, Garcia) will be there in R2.
If there is a round 2 for us
Friday piece will be back to draft talk — but this is a significant blow for the Seahawks if, as expected, they are stripped of the second rounder.
And-true as well-it hasnt even happened yet. Enough with the future-tripping already.
It hasn’t happened yet, and hopefully won’t, but when these things get leaked — it’s generally a precursor to confirmation of the punishment.
Rough day – I have nothing new to add to the drama that hasn’t already been said. Hoping for the best.
I’ve started diving deep into the CB tape for a few players, which is proving much tougher than evaluating OL prospects. A lot depends on how they measure and perform athletically. I’ve watched lots of tape on Cordrea Tankersley, Chidobe Awuzie and Ahkello Witherspoon so far.
Tankersley – looks to have the prototypical height and length that the Hawks look for, and appears pretty athletic on film. He’ll probably run a good 40 time, as he closes exceptionally fast to the ball and uses his physical advantages to contest catches. He’s been a play-maker over the last 2 productive seasons at Clemson, with 100 total tackles, 9.5 TFL, 9 interceptions, and 20 passes defended. He’s very hands-y at the top of his routes, and got called for several DPI’s this season (some of which were questionable calls). While he is a very sound tackler in open space, he lacks physicality taking on blocks. He’s not aggressive trying to stop a ball-carrier when it means stacking and shedding a block. That’s slightly concerning, but something that could perhaps be rectified with the “LOB” mentality. With his blend of size, athleticism & production, I’m almost certain he’ll be drafted in the first round, even with CB being the premium position in this draft class. I’d be happy with Tankersley as our first round draft choice, as I believe he could step in and start opposite Sherman from week 1.
Witherspoon – 6’3 with exceptional length is just ridiculous for a CB. He also had 19 PD’s this season, which reflects the impact he had in coverage. He’s pretty poor against the run, missing tackles every game seemingly. If he tests out like a decent athlete, he could be a Hawks target as early as day 2.
Awuzie – Good size at roughly 6’0, 200 lbs. Not sure if he’ll reach the requisite 32″ arms, 77.5″ wingspan that every drafted Hawks CB has possessed, but he might. Doing so would make him an intriguing option. He offers nice slot/outside flexibility. He’s aggressive against the run/screen/YAC, he tackles hard for a CB, and looks to have good lower body explosion. He also seems to have good instincts in zone coverage. Not a shutdown type, but very solid all-around. I bet he gets taken in the second round. Look at his 2-year production: 150 total tackles, 18 TFL, 8 sacks, 18 PD’s.
Nice constructive post, thanks.
Apparently Awuzie has 29 inch arms
I remember that post a few days ago, but there’s nothing to verify that, and it’s really unlikely. Looking at him on film and in photos, there’s no way he’s got T-Rex arms that’s short. I don’t think he’ll measure at 32″, but it should be well above 29″. No CB in the entire mockdraftable.com database has ever measured smaller than 29.5″.
The combine as important as ever this year to clear up these matters.
There should be several good CB’s who meet the Hawks minimum length this year. So many 6’0+ corners
“The Seahawks have lurched from the drama surrounding Richard Sherman’s challenging of Darrell Bevell on the sideline and then in the media…”
I immediately thought of this situation. Now it makes perfect sense why Sherman was miffed. He was playing through a knee injury (apparently) and didn’t feel like the OC was making play calls that could get them wins. He was putting his career on the line, to help the team, and felt others were not living up to their end of the bargain on the coaching staff (OC specifically).
What John Clayton said was that the earlier 5th round pick, lost due to contact in practice in OTAs would be reinstated, but Seattle would then lose the 5th for repeated “problems” following the rules. Ultimately, it is up to “God’dell to decide.
Lose the 2nd* (oops)
That does sorta fill in the blanks as to why he was ballistic on the sideline.
I still think it’s unclear as to what was going on. It’s beyond bizarre to me that Carroll would volunteer any of this on a radio show, if in fact they were intentionally hiding a significant injury. It just doesn’t pass the sniff test, outside of Pete maybe showing signs of becoming senile, which if it’s the case, maybe he needs to think about stepping down.
I invite folks to read this deadspin article on the matter, and then read below is former punter Chris Kluwe’s comments, they are pretty interesting. He claims that many players develop injuries, MCL ones included, and if they can play through them, teams don’t have to report them. The Seahawks are contending that since Richard Sherman never missed a play in any game, they didn’t have to report. The injury report is for guys that can’t perform what they normally can do.
http://deadspin.com/report-pete-carroll-broke-disclosure-rule-and-it-could-1791404971
It stands to reason that the Seahawks are contending that the MCL injury wasn’t significant enough to prevent the player from doing what he normally does, and therefore wasn’t reported. They will point to the fact he didn’t miss a game or a play, and that he was playing through the pain, which is what a lot of players do through the course of a season.
And this would’ve been a strong case had Carroll not already referred to a ‘significant MCL’ in the interview.
Thanks for.linking.
Hope they win!!
I appreciate Kluwe’s remarks — they will offer some hope to fans.
The problem is Carroll’s language. Referring to it as a ‘significant MCL’ is the problem. And for the sake of just writing ‘knee’ on the injury report at one point during the season, this is a titanic gaffe.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dave-boling/article127572984.html
The Dave Boling story is good. Not only did Sherm not miss a snap, he was returning punts in the SF game, too (and still playing special teams running down the field when he wasn’t the punt returner).
Hawks might be able to lie their way out of their lie – if that’s possible.
As this point, I’d be happy if they changed that 5th rounder to a 3rd round pick.
I’d be more willing to invest a degree in faith in that section of Boling’s article if two things hadn’t happened:
1. Carroll hadn’t referred himself to a ‘significant MCL’ and then admitted he ‘messed up’ in a following press conference on the same day.
2. The league hadn’t already leaked the possible punishment of a second rounder. It’s very rare they climb down once this info gets out.
And overall, Boling is spot on. The tone of his piece is to argue this is unacceptable and huge error. Not to suggest the Seahawks should be let off the hook.
This is where I think Seattle will probably contend that Pete Carroll in an unthought out moment of passion on the radio, over embellished the significance of the MCL, and that the injury wasn’t significant enough to that level. Even Boling is questioning the severity of the injury, the comparison of it to RW’s, and sniffs the strong potential embellishment of the coach. Given that the nature of the whole “messed up” portion of the presser is so wishy washy, I think that could actually work in Seattle favor. There seems to be a lot of ambiguity here, and that’s why this probably will take weeks to resolve.
Again, personally, I put this on Carroll. Even if the best case scenario happens, and Seattle keeps it’s second pick, this is still bad. Right or wrong, even if it was a ill thought out attempt to stick up for his player, it shows the ability to deceive from the top dog. All the USC baggage reincarnates sort of itself in our faces. The principled side of myself thinks the team and Pete Carroll should be penalized for this alone, but the pragmatic side of myself feels like the punishment of the second rounder is way overreaching if the team can show that this is really is much ado about nothing in terms of the significance of the injury, which looking at a lot of the things we know, the team could have that case.
I’ve no doubt the Seahawks will argue Carroll was exaggerating — the NFL will no doubt argue how can they believe this new version of events considering he’s now trying to prevent the team losing a second round pick. I really don’t see an ‘out’ for the Seahawks. They’ve brought this on themselves and now it’s simply what the punishment will be. The leak of a second rounder is concerning IMO — it’s basically sounding like that’s what it will be.
The 4 teams remaining in the NFL playoffs rank in the top 10 in most cap spent on starting OL.
#3 PIT ($22.8M)
#6 ATL ($19.0M)
#7 GBP ($18.6M)
#10 NEP ($16.9M)
FWIW, 9 of the top 10 teams in most cap spent on starting OL made the playoffs. Only CIN failed to make the postseason (#8, $17.8M)
And if the Seahawks had won one more game, or had the Atlanta game at home instead, the cheapest O-line in the league would’ve been in the final four too.
Neither of those things happened. CHawk Talker Eric makes a good point.Coach Carroll, like others, continues to kick dirt on the need to upgrade the OLine with quality veteran talent. This is depressing.
They didn’t happen — but it was entirely possible. This is how you can twist stats to suit an argument.
Last years Super Bowl was played out between two O-lines that nobody would covet.
@Bradley60Sowell: I knew something was different when I got 3 holding calls in a game and only had gotten 3 total in the previous 4 years
@JacsonBevens: Seahawks 2nd most penalized team in NFL over last three years. Their opponents have been least penalized by far. Something to it.
NFL loses a lot of.money when thebseahawks.are in the SB and not the Cowboys or.Packers.
The worst thing Seahawks fans can do right now is start pedaling conspiracy theories.
That’s not just a theory, and it’s not really a conspiracy. The NFL is a business and Seattle is a small market.
It’s a conspiracy.
Green Bay is a tiny market. They seem to have done alright in my lifetime.
Small town that 100% football and has fan base all around the country. Their brand is huge.
Conspiracy theory is a political term used to discredit. It was coined by the CIA in the 60s to hide things you would assume the govt doesn’t do.
Ah right — so now a small market with a big fan base is now also excluded from the conspiracy theory.
Anyone else we should discount? Jacksonville because it’s warm in Florida maybe?
Instead of analyzing or discussing the correlation, you are making blind assumptions and backing them by implying this discussin on SDB will have an effect on the fine.
Nope.
I’m asserting that if you want to believe the NFL is out to get Seattle, you might as well believe Nightmare on Elm Street III: Dream Warriors is actually a documentary.
Businesses are designed to make money. That is the very definition of a business. Are you implying the NFL is not a business?
These scariest you’re painting are outlandish.
I’ve only seen the first NOES so I don’t totally follow you.
“Scenarios” not scaries
Not only is SEA a small market with little brand value, their style of football is exactly what the NFL is trying to steer teams away from with the rule changes. It doesn’t appeal to casual viewers.
When the Seahawks make the SB, it has an effect on the SB audience and the bottom line. They want TDs and sacks, Dan Coyell numbers. They don’t like grind it out, they don’t like 4 man rushes every down. They want more people to watch the NFL. We’re a boring team from Seattle with no brand and no tradition.
I see we’ve moved on to Nightmare on Elm Street 4: Dream Master
‘The true story’
Nightmare On Elm St 5: CORPORATE CORPORATIONS
-Billion dollar global company works behind the scenes to maximize their bottom line, unique in the business world. Freddy Kruegger holds press conference and doesn’t spill the beans on this, protecting his bottom line! As this outrageous conspiracy pushes forward, Krueger does everything he can to to help his profits grow, cultivating his brand and expanding his market, paying his employees comfortable salaries, and giving his consumers a product they like!
But I don’t agree that the NFL is either fair or rigged. Very naive view you are arguing here Rob.
I can see a few ways to see this:
1. The game is pure and has been able to stand up to commercial pressure, even though it could be compromised without telling the world and this would make a better more efficient product.
2.a. The owners are interested in money and have compromised this purity for profit, using tools like Scheduling, rule writing and officiating. This is bad.
2.b. The purity has been compromised but that’s just the changing nature of the sport as a business. A town like Seattle will have a steeper hill to climb every year, until there is some economic shift. This isn’t great for purists but it is good business and it’s ok. This is the challenge teams like SEA will face and that’s ok.
If you take approach 1., things like these penalties against the Seahawks and Super Bowl XL will never make sense to you, and you will rationalize your way around them.
Personally I think draft picks are overrated. People are more upset by this than they are about getting bumped from the playoffs.
Nightmare on Elm Street 5: The Dream Child
‘Based on an actual child’
The conspiracy continues…
The shocking conspiracy that the NFL is a business.
GB and Lombardi are emblematic of the NFL itself.
When when i say it’s not a conspiracy, what I mean is, it is normal for businesses to organize their syste, to make profit.
They’re not ‘conspiring’, they’re just running a business. Sanctity of the game and etc. is a secondary consideration.
Conspiracy theories.
those are frustrating statistics, but I find it hard to believe they are part of a plan.
we know the hawks play aggressive, so no surprise why they are the most penalized. And, the coaches do not enforce disipline like a lot of other teams.
Not sure why they have the fewest penalties called against their opponents, but it may have something to do with other teams treating games with the Seahawks are their Super Bowl and making it one of the most important games on their schedule. A 3 year run is certainly a statistical anomaly. There must be a reason, but it is probably not a conspiracy.
fans of other teams think the Hawks are very lucky with the Fail Mary, no call on Sherman on Julio this year, hold on every play, etc.
so conspiracies can come from both sides
Jake Browning news. As many suspected due to the ultra efficient QB getting suddenly off target later in the season, just read that he had right shoulder surgery.
This is almost funny considering the Sherman announcement was also on ESPN 710. “Browning injured his right arm in a Nov. 19 game against Arizona State, which the Huskies won 44-18.
According to the report, ***the team wanted to keep the injury under wraps to not expose the star quarterback to more potential risk from opposing defenses.***
“I do think he was fighting through some things as the season went on because he’s a tough guy,” Petersen said during an interview earlier this month with the Brock and Salk show on 710 ESPN Seattle. “We had to do some things. Let me say this: We’ve got some tough kids on our team.
Between this and them signing Perrish Cox, it’s clear that this organization is not “special”, and no different than any other NFL team when it comes to justifying unsavory business.
With Sherman, what should have been a simple set of decisions now looks like a clumsy cover-up.
And why Cox, and why now? Why go out of their way to sign THAT guy, with THAT rap sheet? Frank Clark was bad enough. Cox isn’t even a great CB.
Yep. Bit of rose tinting slipping from the glasses at the moment. It’s a grubby business, and the Hawks are no different to anyone else.
They know fans don’t really care that much.
The DV drama never lasts because its mostly virtue signaling.
Not just the DV but cox doesn’t have the speed anymore to play CB in the NFL.
See, the outrage is mostly a just a show, if he still had the speed etc. to impact games as CB, it wouldn’t be an issue. And it still won’t be, once the season is underway.
I’m not saying I want him on the team or don’t just analyzing this phenomena.
Agreed. Hated the signing of cox even more than this nonsense.
I’d assume they didn’t report to keep opponents from getting a window into how to attack Sherman, if no ones said that yet. Strange if you think about the extremes the F.O. will go to be competitive, while overlooking simple solutions to other problems and sometimes even the problem itself.
Good to get a sober take on this.
The second round pick would be worth it if the team made the SB, which they didn’t and didn’t put 100% into doing.
What Pete did with this screw up is the equivalent of a scenario where the Patriots kicker misses a game winning field goal then after the game to protect his kicker from media and fan scrutiny he says “Ye our kicker has to be better next year but in fairness to him we did deflate the balls a little too much”.
This is something the Browns or Jets would do and and we would all laugh at them for being such a joke of an organization.
Anyways I have to stop thinking about it as it only pisses me off more. That 2nd rounder sure could some handy though this draft.
No doubt PC was the team’s own worst enemy in this matter with him describing Sherm’s injury as “significant” (the exact language of the rule regarding injury reporting), but in the closed door discussions between the team and the League that are undoubtedly to come, I’m sure he will characterize his comment as hyperbole intended to cast Sherm in a sympathetic light to fans and. It as medically accurate or conclusive.
If the NFL intends to be fair in this matter and not collusive against SEA (conspiracy theories aside) then this will come down to a medical examination of Sherm’s knee, expert testimony of that examination, and the objective and emperical evidence of Sherm’s on field play over the course of the second half of the season.
In any event, escalating the penalty to a R2 pick seems both totally arbitrary and totally out of proportion in light of of the NFL has handled past similar situations.
*and NOT as medically accurate or conclusive
Rob,
Could this guy be of interest?
OG Dorian Johnson, Pittsburgh
Another prospect that could move around the line if needed, Johnson played left tackle, right guard and left guard while at Pitt. To put it simply, this guy is a near must-have if your Seattle’s coaching staff. Standing six-foot-five inches and weighing 315 pounds, he is one of the most N.F.L.-ready offensive lineman to enter the draft in a long while. Little-to-none of that weight is excess, as Johnson is relatively lean and downright ripped. Throw exceptional technique and patience and Johnson may be the perfect blocker. He has shown great ability as a pulling guard, which is another huge need for the Seahawks up front. Johnson has potential as a day one starter and Seattle has a golden opportunity to select him later than they probably should be able to.
Two things I’d say here…
1. I think Johnson will be a R2 pick. Sadly, for now, we have to assume the Seahawks are not going to be picking in round two unless they trade down.
2. He finished his career playing guard at Pitt. The judgement is likely going to be whether he can play tackle at the next level. Tackle is the key need for Seattle on the O-line. There aren’t many college guards that play tackle in the NFL. Branden Albert is one. Length and mobility will be key tests for him.
Thank you.
I was hoping he could be there at the end of day 2 (late 3rd). 315 with no excess weight sounded very appealing…
I have a theory about the drama that could make sense. The league may have leaked the possibility of the 2nd round pick penalty as a way to judge fan & media feedback prior to completing their investigation and ruling on the matter.
If so, there may be some hope that Pete and the team just get hit with big fines instead.
Wishful thinking.
Two players all Seahawks fans should be hoping have a great draft prep season are Pat Mahomes and Brad Kaya. If these two guys can have a great prep season and start getting buzz they may become targets for teams drafting early in Rd #2 that did not take a Qb in the top 10 who want to move back into Rd #1 (Cle, SF, Bears, Jets). At least one of these 4 teams is not going to get the young QB they need early and may be looking at one of these guys near the end of Rd #1.
Where Romo goes will also play a role but I can’t see him going to one of these 4.
That’s a great point…alot of players that are so called locks in the 1st two rounds will slip to rounds 3-5. Over drafting of QB’s is definitely one of the reasons. Happens every year…
I kinda think Cleveland is going to take Myles Garrett. Even more so with the hiring of DC Gregg Williams.
And are the 49ers going to take a QB that gives them the same skill set as Colin Kaepernick? Tough to see that happening. Unless its Trubisky.
Keep an eye on Buffalo moving up into the top 3 to grab a QB.
Trubisky has John Fox written all over him.
I’m really liking the tape of Channing Stribling. 6’2 175 lbs and one of the 10 fastest guys on the Michigan football team. Love his ability to cover the deep ball, makes clean open field tackles
Get’s a bit messy with his footwork at times so isn’t consistently in the best position. Needs to beef up a little for run support but other than that seems like a likely mid-late round corner worth investing in. He’s also been one of the most productive player on a loaded Michigan defense.
ALL-BIG TEN FOOTBALL SECOND TEAM (COACHES): DB Channing Stribling, Michigan…Stribling led the Big Ten in conference play with 14 pass breakups, the fourth most in a single season in U-M history. He led the Wolverines in interceptions (four) and pass breakups (16) while registering 27 tackles, three TFLs and one sack.
Looks like the Seahawks might be attempting to bolster the pass rush by coaching up the likes of Jarran Reed, Q Jeff, and Garrison Smith by hiring former Bears DL/OLB coach Clint Hurtt. Perhaps an easy thing to scoff at, but in 2014, when he was solely coaching the DL, the Bears got good inside rush out of the at the time thought of purely run stopper Stephen Paea (6 sacks), and Jay Ratcliff (6.5) sacks. Jared Allen also rushed inside some (5.5 sacks). He even got decent contribution from two young guys no longer on the team in Ego Ferguson (2 sacks), and David Bass (3 sacks) that year. When John Fox took over and switched the system to a 3-4, he was retained and took over coaching OLBs.
I was thinking the same thing. Bob Condotta noted he’s not replacing the current DL coaches, just joining the staff. Have to think it was to create some more inside rush. Perhaps he has some insight on what to look for in potential inside DL draft picks as well.
Hurtt was a great recruiting coordinator for Miami and L’ville. He actually developed Calais Campbell at ‘The U.’
Chicago let a good one get away. One of the best young positional coaches in the entire league. Thery blocked him from going to the Dolphins and he was just about to join the Jets as their OLB coach.
I am with you on this one Vol.
This was a great move and the one positive from an otherwise dreadful week. This guys was considered an upcoming star until Fox got to the Bears. They had even blocked him from talking to other teams.
Can only help recruit Calais Campbell as well. He will also have some great insight on the DL talent coming out of CFB as he is well connected still.
Love this move!
“Can only help recruit Calais Campbell as well”
Bam!
That would be the hope. If they don’t land Campbell, you might suspect them looking other former players of his like Stephen Paea.
Fantastic move, I’m glad Pete is looking at outside coaches to come in and help.
Another thought could be with the pending Shanahan hiring in SF, the team might have gotten the early word he wants to poach someone in Seattle to become his new DC.
Rob looking back on the Ifedi pick in Rd #1 last year what are your thoughts?
I know he had a rough year but the physical ability is obvious. I still think he has huge upside and potential to be dominant. My biggest concern is that he is sticking at RG and if that was the plan using a 1st round pick for an RG seems like a little bit of wasted draft capital as it is certainly not a premium position.
When the made the pick of Ifedi I was assuming we were drafting our RT of the future and loved the pick. Hindsight is 20/20 but when you think of the guys at premium positions who went after Ifedi it makes me question the pick much more. Do you think this is James Carpenter 2.0 or Kelece Osemelle in 2-3 years time?
I’m not Rob, but either they were targeting a guard all all along or the guy they wanted was off the board.
Make sense. Do you like the idea of draft a RG in Rd #1? I guess if he turns into Osemelle then no one will complain.
They were pretty clear that they saw Ifedi as a “cornerstone tackle” down the road. Something like that. And maybe they still do but for the time being that’s obviously not the case.
James Carpenter 2.0 isn’t a bad thing. He’s been a solid NFL guard approaching his seventh year in the league.
I thought they’d take Ifedi, they did, now we have to see how he develops in year two. He has the physical tools to be excellent.
They clearly said they saw him as a RT right after the draft. That said, I think they moved him to RG fairly early in camp, well before I would think they could have any formative opinion on whether he could succeed at RT.
I think it may have been more being able to play Gilliam at RT and get who they saw as their five best at the time out on the field together. If I recall, they had kind of bagged the Gilliam at LT by then but still wanted him as a starter – RT was his normal position anyways and Ifedi could play RG. So it worked out that way.
Very interesting stat.
Since 1996, 100% of multiple All-Pro or Pro Bowl O-lineman were 23 years old or younger. Really says a lot about potential. Not that you can’t get good starters.
*on draft day.
Ifedi is only 22 now! So there is some hope there.
Is that a comment on Bolles potential?
I think the fact that he is a Juco / 1 yr player is the reason he is being noticed and draft this late. I think had he not that the issues to overcome he likely would have been noticed much earlier.
That is a pretty interesting stat however. Is that any different than other positions?
Nope. Just thought it was interesting.
This team is a dumpster fire.
We need to fire Carroll. I’ve said this since after Super Bowl 49. How many unsuccessful years until I’m not crazy anymore?
unsuccessful?
I’m certainly not for firing Carroll. He wins my judgement as a fan because he gave us our one sb win.
But it also wouldn’t surprise me if this is just part of the downswing of a great program, that hit its mark, then did nothing different/remarkable to stop what happens to 90% of the champions. It’s just too much to repeat in most cases. Bellichek/Brady as everyone knows are the exception. Green Bay hit jackpot going from Favre to Rodgers. Likely, we’re not exceptional. We were very good and had our moment. The dvd of that sb is treasured in my library.
Unfortunately, Carroll will most likely be remembered for the 1 yard play in the sb. Seems unfair, but that’s the likely outcome.
And yet they are one strong fa period and draft from being right back in the mix. Not saying that the down slope can’t happen but they have a top 5ish qb who is only 28 years old and a ton of talent still at other positions. Hardly time to be writing an obit.
And you’ve just stated a case for all those declining teams. EVERY ONE OF THEM. They were always one player away. One FA. One guy coming back from injury. Again, I hope this team surprises me. But these things that are happening right now are not aberrations. They’re part of a typical cycle.
If PC is truly a genius to transcend this cycle, something has to change. Since that play in the sb, follow what has happened. Kam’s holdout, Bennett’s complaints, injuries, the sideline antics, the hubris, this is part of a pattern. PC must change this pattern. This is the real test of his leadership, holding it together and then bringing it back.
This is, however, where Bellichek’s glass half empty trumps Pete’s glass half full approach. I don’t think Pete did this to be sneaky. I think he took it for granted. It’s always a sunny day in his world. Clearly he NEVER tries to defend Sherman this way if he knew this would happen.
Isn’t every team who doesn’t win the super bowl almost by definition at least one something away?
Be careful what you wish for (eg: Niners post-Harbaugh).
Then there’s John Fox and Denver…
What, so you want Gary Kubiak to coach the Seahawks instead?
Pipe down.
We are talking about Denver is on their third Coach in 4 years?
Denver who didn’t even make the playoffs this years?
We are talking about that Denver yes??
I’ll quote Aaron Rodgers now.
R E L A X….
By that logic Belichick should be fired too. Only one Superbowl win in the last 11 years? How unsuccessful.
Rob I have a question for you if the hawks lose there 2 round pick do you think it will increase the chance of trading out of the first round.or do you think it will not make a difference.I thank you for all the articles and your post and congratulations on your newest family member
Yes, definitely.
We are all love the Seahawks here, but its a little funny to read some of these comments and see that many fans are just as volatile and prone to emotion as this players on this team. People have been letting this stuff get the better of of them calling for Pete’s job while simultaneously getting on Sherman and Bennett for their emotional outbursts and “threatening” peoples livelihood. The end of the superbowl cannot get here soon enough so we can get to the combine, free agency and the draft. As has been said, this team is still in great position and could be even more so by the time OTA’s rolls around.