Report: Seahawks ready to re-tool roster

Mike Silver from the NFL Network had some interesting things to say after yesterday’s crushing defeat to the Rams.

Is a major roster makeover on the cards?

It’s something the front office has refrained from referring to as a rebuild, instead preferring the word transition. Yet given the Seahawks’ salary-cap situation (the team is currently pressed up against the spending limit) and the wear and tear on so many of their defensive stalwarts, big changes could indeed be coming, including a death blow to the Legion of Boom.

Most of the expected turnover is on the defensive side of the ball, with one notable exception: Former Pro Bowl tight end Jimmy Graham, acquired in a trade before the 2015 season, will be a free agent this March and would likely be re-signed only if he takes a significant cut from his current $10 million annual salary.

Of the four Pro Bowl defenders who missed Sunday’s game, only outside linebacker K.J. Wright is likely to return in 2018. Safety Kam Chancellor’s season-ending neck injury, suffered last month, could be career-threatening; if he does try to keep playing, it likely wouldn’t be in Seattle. Chancellor, who signed a three-year, $36-million contract extension in August, could save the Seahawks significant cap dollars if he decides to retire, rather than force his likely release.

Fellow Legion of Boom stalwart Sherman, who tore his Achilles tendon in November, will be 30 next spring and is due to make $11 million (with a $13.2-million salary-cap number). The Seahawks shopped him in trades a year ago and are expected to move forward without him in 2018.

Avril, who turns 32 in April, suffered a season-ending neck and spinal injury in early October which may end his career; either way, his time in Seattle is probably done. Improbable as it sounds, it’s possible the Seahawks would also move on from another accomplished defensive end: 32-year-old Michael Bennett, a versatile player who signed a three-year, $31.5-million contract extension last Dec. 30.

The piece is semi-speculative. It’s suggested Bennett could move on rather than asserted he will. Avril’s Seahawks career is described as ‘probably done’ not simply ‘done’.

Yet Silver writes with greater certainty about the future of Chancellor (“if he does try to keep playing, it likely wouldn’t be in Seattle”) and Sherman (“expected to move forward without him in 2018”). The first sentence above refers directly to the language Seattle is using to refer to future changes (‘transition’ not rebuild).

With the season playing out the way it has, change feels inevitable. The extent of the change is yet to be determined.

Trading or cutting Bennett, for example, wouldn’t create much 2018 relief. The benefit in 2019 and 2020 would be substantial however. His 2018 cap hit is $8.237m with $5.212m in dead money. The question to ask is — are the Seahawks better off moving Bennett for the sake of a minimal cap boost and to accelerate change? Even in a year where he turns 33, it’ll be very difficult to find a player as talented as Bennett for $8m or less.

Chancellor is a similar case. If he does choose to play on with his future lying elsewhere, as suggested by Silver, his $9.8m cap hit is offset by $7.5m in dead money.

Sherman provides the biggest boost but is arguably the toughest of the three to replace. Even as he approaches 30, he’s played at a high level. His game has never been about extreme speed and Sherman stands to age better than other cornerbacks as a consequence. He may prefer a media career — but Sherman could easily play into his 30’s and possibly even move to safety one day. He’s good enough.

Cutting or trading Sherman saves $11m in 2018.

The Seahawks will have approximately $25-30m to spend without any of these moves if Avril indeed does depart or retire and they cut Jeremy Lane. Moving on from Sherman, Bennett and Chancellor in 2018 could create around another $16m.

That might sound appealing to some. However, consider that they might also need to replace the likes of Jimmy Graham, Paul Richardson, Sheldon Richardson, Bradley McDougald, Luke Willson and several others. The Seahawks carried a lot of players on one year contracts this season. They wouldn’t just need to replace the big names. They’d need to fill out the roster too.

That won’t be easy in a year where they won’t have a lot of draft stock. They’re not due a bevvy of comp picks in 2018 and they’ve already traded away their second and third rounders. They’ll likely consider trading down in round one to accumulate further stock (they’re currently slated to pick at #19) but they also need to hit on some draft picks and might benefit from picking a bit earlier.

Silver also discusses the future of Jimmy Graham (“would likely be re-signed only if he takes a significant cut from his current $10 million annual salary”) and wonders about the future of Pete Carroll:

“…it’s at least plausible that Seattle could remain competitive as the roster is retooled.

However, it will be a significant challenge, and it begs a legitimate question: Will Carroll, 66 and blessed with a bulging bank account, be motivated to preside over such an ambitious home-improvement project?”

It’s a question that is unavoidable, unfortunately, after Sunday’s game. It’s highly possible the Rams shellacking was an ugly one-off. A perfect storm for Los Angeles — an injury-hit Seahawks roster capitulating early and failing to recover. Yet it was a performance and result so foreign to the Carroll Seahawks, you can’t help but wonder what it means for the future. This era hasn’t just been about winning. It’s the way Seattle has competed.

None of the qualities Carroll brought to this team were present on Sunday and they couldn’t be further from his preferred style of play in 2017 (run the ball on offense, aggressive and opportunistic defense, control the ball, dominate turnover battle).

Did we just witness the end of an era? Or was it just final confirmation that a re-tooling of personnel is required?

If Carroll did move on, it’s difficult to imagine who would come in. A year ago someone like Kyle Shanahan would’ve been a strong candidate. A young, offensive minded coach who could build around a more Russell Wilson-centric team. Shanahan’s offense helped Matt Ryan become league MVP and Atlanta put up big numbers in 2016 on the way to the Super Bowl. Now he has a proper quarterback, Shanahan is 3-0 in his last three games at San Francisco.

This year the options appear much more limited. There’s no hot-shot coordinator that stands out unless you want to run through the usual suspects like Josh McDaniels (an ill-fit you’d imagine given he’d probably want to bring in his own GM). There isn’t another big name college coach with a history of culture building and a NFL background.

Carroll retiring, when it comes, would be such a significant move and the timing would be everything. You’d want to transition to a coach who you believe can win Championships and create the next winning culture of this team. You don’t want to settle on the best available option in a year where the alternatives don’t appear to be that attractive.

So basically, be careful what you wish for.

(See: Jim Mora, 2009)

It sums up where we’re at with the Seahawks currently that we’re even having this conversation. There’s so much uncertainty. Players that became synonymous with Seattle sports, soon potentially moving on. A great coach, possibly nearing the end.

Maybe a few tweaks, a good draft and they’ll be back at it in 2018?

Or perhaps they win in Dallas and get people dreaming again?

Who knows what happens next?

Above all else, remember one thing. This Tweet sums it up:

A quick final note for now. Thanks to your contributions via Patreon I have been able to purchase a subscription to Bob McGinn’s draft coverage. For those of you who’ve followed the blog for a while, you’ll be aware of McGinn’s sources providing a detailed inside look at how scouts view the class. McGinn published his first 2018 draft piece over the weekend. Considering it’s behind a paywall, I won’t be copying and pasting quotes on here (too much respect for the source). I will be sharing some of the info though, possibly via audio (podcast) or a written piece. Stay tuned. Hopefully this will help take your mind off the game yesterday.

And if you want to contribute via Patreon, here’s the link via the tab below…

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  1. Greg Haugsven

    Everyone keeps saying that they can just release Kam and be on there merry way. He has a $12 million injury guarantee. If he cant pass his physical he will receive $12 million payment taking his released cap hit from $7.5 million to $19.5 million. He says that if he keeps playing it will be on a different team. Who is going to trade for him? I agree with you non Bennett, but I do think 2018 could be his last year. I would for sure hope they can reduce his snap count % from 85 to around 60 or so to keep him more fresh. To keep Sherman or not? Thats a tough one but I would be in favor of keeping him and see how he does. Also let KJ play out his contract and maybe get younger there in 2019. The defense for sure could look completely different in a couple years.

    • KingRajesh

      Hopefully you can do a salary dump with a team like the Browns with Chancellor.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m sure there is a team that would take a year or two Kam if he was inclined to continue. But Seattle wouldn’t get much in return.

      • Greg Haugsven

        Maybe, it would have to be a team with a lot of cap space that was on the cusp of winning. Dont get me wrong, I would love to get out from under that contract even with little in return. Another question is would he want to play another team?

        • john_s

          You would probably have to attach a mid round pick in order to dump Kam on to another team. The unknown about his injury is too great for a team just to take Kam and his salary on.

      • Trevor

        If there is n cap relief I would much sooner see Kam as a Seahawk to take a leadership role mentoring the young guys.

        • Greg Haugsven

          We would save $2.3 million to get out from under the contract if you can take away the $12 million injury guarantee. I agree, I would like to see him as a Seahawk in 2018, probably his last.

        • Rob Staton

          I’m a huge Kam fan. But there has to be a reason why Silver reported what he did. Seattle might just feel like he can’t stay healthy.

          • Ed

            Which is why many were saying don’t resign him. Or Sherman. NE shows, don’t be faithful to players, be faithful to organization and winning.

            • Michael M.

              It is possible to accomplish both. I don’t know if Kam would have any interest in coaching if this is the end of his playing career, but I would love to keep him on in some capacity in the organization

  2. KingRajesh

    I think the transition is one year too late. Unlike the Patriots, who generally let players go a year too early, Pete and John doubled down this year and went all in to get something done with this core, but it seems they didn’t have much left in the tank – Pete should have seen that his core group just didn’t have enough juice to make another Super Bowl. We’re seeing the results now. I’m not going to fault them for trading for Sheldon Richardson and Duane Brown, but re-signing Chancellor and Bennett looks like PC/JS got too close to their players and didn’t think about the business side. This defense is STAGNANT. Jacksonville and LA are what we used to be, full of HUNGRY dogs just flying around out there. Hell, the Jags literally had a guy on their team who was recently sleeping in his car. Bennett, Chancellor, Sherman, Earl… they’re all sleeping on silk sheets in big mansions, and as Mike Tyson once said, it’s hard to get up and work when you’ve got cash.

    Giving defensive players a third long term contract when they’re close to or over 30 is generally a bad idea. Defense is a young man’s game. Keep the defense hungry and they fly around the field. Pay them more than once and they generally turn into pumpkins.

    If Bennett and Chancellor hadn’t been re-signed, you could cut bait with Kam, Avril, Sherman, Bennett or Chancellor and save HUGE against the cap. We’d have the fuel to really retool in a year. Instead, 2018 will probably be a 8-10 win season if we’re lucky. Sherman will be lucky if he can make it back at all, let alone play up to his level again. Achilles injuries are pretty awful to come back from.

    Earl has clearly regressed this year without Kam telling him where to go. He’s been out of position a ton of the time, and his tackling has somehow gotten worse than it was when he was first coming into the league. If he wants that mega-contract, I’d trade him and rebuild the defense around Wagner. Besides, Earl has said that he wants to play football as long as the LOB is together, so if you get rid of one or more, will he even still want to play? I doubt it. He already considered retirement once.

    • Greg Haugsven

      I disagree on Earl. You see what happens when guys are gone. When Bobby isnt out there the run defense goes to hell. When Earl isnt out there the pass defense goes to hell. I understand what you are talking about with guys being hungry but that doesnt apply to everyone. Earl is a different dude. I feel like we might have to move on from the aging defensive players in two different seasons. If you do it all at one that following season could be rough.

      • KingRajesh

        I 100% agree with you about Earl, but his comments after his injury are very concerning. I have to wonder how much he has in the tank. If you’ve considered retirement once, I think your days are numbered.

        You can’t commit to a guy if he’s going to walk away from the game halfway through a contract.

      • john_s

        Just watching the games where the team was at “full strength” Earl was missing plays and of course his lack of tackling has always been something left to be desired.

        In my eyes Earl has been average this year.

        Does Earl want to go through a rebuild with a baby LOB? I don’t think he does. I think he wants to win now and not have to go through the growing process of younger plays in the backfield.

        If it was me I would have never extended Kam and would’ve traded him during the holdout year.

        The problem I see is similar to a starting pitcher. A starting pitcher can throw innings, but how many innings are high leverage innings? There’s only so many pitches in a pitcher and the more high leverage innings a pitcher pitches, it is taking extra innings off his arm.

        The same thing can be said for this defense. How many “easy” wins have the Seahawks won? Most of the games are high pressure, high leverage games that are decided by 10 points or less and the defense is playing hard throughout. For instance look at the AZ game that they won. Kam was hurt on the last play I think. That was a game where they should have been comfortable ahead. This style of play takes plays off of the defenders careers match faster than other teams.

  3. Totem_Hawk

    The collapse of this team happened like most collapses, way quicker than expected. Taking a closer look at the cap next year is going to be a tough one. Contracts like Kam and others that the organization can’t get out from under without a ton of dead cap…It was a good run, a GREAT run. Lets do the following:
    Let a ton of free agents walk: Prich (average WR) Graham (too inconsistent) Joeckel (average at best) Lacy (dud) Tanner McEvoy (terrible) Sheldon Richardson (nothing special)
    Avril, Kam, Bennett and Sherman trade or release. Thanks for your service but it’s over. The cap hit is rough for 2018 but have to go through the pain…cut the cord…
    Frank Clark…let him walk after next year..he is a good player, above average but signing him would take top 10 D end $$ and likely end up being a bad contract for a nice player who doesn’t impact the game enough.
    John Schneider leveraged future picks betting Duane Brown and Sheldon Richardson would put the team over the top. It didn’t work and now this team is in the ditch…

    • Greg Haugsven

      Its one of the problems when basically your whole defense gets built with in a few years of each other. You have the greatness you have seen over the last 5 years but they also get old at the same time.

    • Mark Souza

      The collapse didn’t happen quickly, it’s been gradual over a number of years. First, we let Maxwell go and the corner on that side turned into a revolving door. Then we let Bruce Irvin go, and never found a replacement. He was a defensive end quick enough to play linebacker and play in coverage like a safety. As a result that linebacker spot turned into a revolving door of free agents and draft busts.

      Kam used to be a great safety with enough speed to cover the likes of Vernon Davis. But ever since his hold out, his performance has really suffered. He gets beat all the time. As a 4th linebacker and enforcer, he still had talent. In coverage, he’s a liability that Earl can’t always cover for. I think when he held out, he knew he was slowing down and deteriorating, which is why he was desperate to get paid.

      The stalwarts of this defense are aging. It’s been hard to notice because this defense is still so good, but it’s not what it was 4 years ago, and it’s not going to get better with the same faces in place.

      Is it time to blow it up? Maybe not. The first thing you need is a franchise quarterback. Quarterbacks can play almost two decades if they are protected and take care of themselves. We have one. The next piece, and the second most important, is the offensive line. Offensive linemen can easily play longer than a decade without losing anything, in fact, if the can be kept together they get better and more cohesive. And also importantly, they protect your most valuable asset, and set the tone for the offense. That’s what the team needs to prioritize.

      We’ve kind of been doing it backwards spending the big bucks on defensive side of the ball. If the Legion of Boom is proof of anything, it’s proof of how effective a team can be with young hungry players on rookie contracts. We didn’t start sliding until those player were old enough to get second contracts. Speed is critical on defense. Defense has to react and make up ground. You can’t afford to let those guys slow down.

      We’ve been letting offensive linemen go once they come up for a payday, while extending defensive players. We should have been doing it the other way around. Because we have to build an offensive line, we might be better served to hold onto some of our defensive veterans until we can focus on that side of the ball.

      • AlaskaHawk

        That’s an interesting perspective.

  4. FuzzyLOgic

    I know it’s been said a hundred times but thanks to Rob for all the perspective he gives. We simply don’t have a greater outlet for hawk-talk and info than this blog. We should all be patrons to the degree we can.

    What an eye opening game right? Coordinators? Coaches? GM? Probably not the problem and I agree with Rob on this particular point that it’s getting rather bothersome to hear people point the finger in that direction. For me I’ve been a Hawks fan for over 30 years and NEVER thought I would see a SB trophy lifted be a Seahawk QB….thank you RW for giving me that particular joy.

    Changes are coming soon. As upset as we all are about that loss on Sunday I know PC/JS are tons more concerned. Some say just keep RW, Wagner and a few other to build around but I don’t think that’s feasible. JS made a HUGE gamble on draft stock to get Harvin, Graham,Richardson and Brown probably because he wanted to capitalize on great window. My qualm with that is……Win Forever doesn’t really seem to fit with those moves. Isn’t win forever building through the draft for the most part?

    So, I see us trading back in the 1st round maybe a few times to get back some draft capital and JS making the most of it hopefully. I’m starting to question some of his moves the last few years and hope it doesn’t end up making us a lose forever team again.

    • Totem_Hawk

      Can Seattle just stop with trading out of the 1st is a failed strategy most of the time…just pick at #19 or wherever and eat not picking in 2nd and 3rd round…we made trades that failed..just eat it..accept the pain…our picks when trading bk have been super average.

      • FuzzyLOgic

        I’m not sure there is a real difference this year of picking at #19 or #27 or whatever unless you really need a QB. Personally if a Nelson or other really good O-lineman is available I’d be all in at #19 but we simply need draft picks at this point and hopefully hit on them. For the next few years we might be picking in the top 20 so now is the time for JS to start stockpiling picks.

      • Lenny J

        I agree. Pick the BPA at this spot. Hopefully a RB, DE, OL, in that OL

        • Lenny J

          In that order

        • Michigan 12th

          As long as Cable does not pick the O-lineman again

          • Kenny Sloth

            He literally doesnt.

            The scouts pick the players that fit what the coaches want.

            They show them to the OL coach and he might go work them out like Ifedi a few years ago.

            We found him because we did what our teams’ scouts do; take the coach at his word and find the guys he can work with.

    • FuzzyLOgic

      Go Hawks

      • Greg Haugsven

        They do it mostly because they believe they can get the same type of graded player as they can later on. Why pay a guy #19 salary when you can get the same guy at say #30 and pay him much less.

  5. Preston

    If you’re going to retool the roster then you’re going to need to draft stock back. Best way to do that is to trade valuable players. Get younger, and cheaper. Would you trade Earl Thomas and our 1st pick to Cleveland for 1st overall and their 33rd pick? Jump ahead of San Fran and get Barkley. If you want to get top young talent, you have to look around at who on our roster with worth a first or second round pick. I think you could make the argument Barkley would have a greater impact than Earl would. Good luck trying to get a significant pick for Sherman, Bennett, Baldwin. Maybe a high 2nd for Wagner. Trading Earl would alleviate a lot of cap room.

    • KingRajesh

      There isn’t a single person on defense outside of Bobby Wagner that shouldn’t be for sale.

      There isn’t a single person on offense outside of Russell Wilson that shouldn’t be for sale.

      • FuzzyLOgic

        I don’t agree with that. Earl is a must have for our defense. Teams simply don’t want to go deep with him back there. I would also put Doug in a must keep scenario.

      • Lenny J

        Gotta keep a 27 year old Richardson if possible. Gave up to much draft capital to let him walk.

        • Greg Haugsven

          I agree on Earl, pass defense falls apart when he is gone.

          • Ed

            McDougald filled in well. Thomas is great, but even outside of missing most of last year, he isn’t the player he was early. Isn’t the deep pass eliminator he is given credit for.

            • Preston

              We need to get younger and cheaper, and we need picks to do that. Russ, Earl, Baldwin, and Wagner are basically the only bargaining chips we have. No one is going to be foolish enough to trade for a player in the decline. They have to have some tread left on their tires. SO who is it gonna be??? How many years does each of these players have left of pro bowl talent/speed? Can they stay healthy as they’re getting older? How much compensation could you get for them by waiting another year or two?

              If they do decide to transition like the saints did and build around Brees, they should begin now. Getting a high first round pick in a player trade would a be a huge step in that direction. From there you can get your impact franchise player and use our native first to trade back for more picks.

              • Preston

                don’t get me wrong. Pains me to say we should trade Earl. Just think it’s necessary given how few picks we have and tight cap room…

      • Ed

        100% agree

    • Bigten

      I don’t think there is anyway Cleveland would make that trade. I doubt they would even take earl and our first for just there 1 overall. I would be all for it, and I love etIII. But no way they would make that.

      • Michigan 12th

        They might trade the number 5 pick though. I kind of doubt it because they picked Peppers last year, but he is a better run defender than pass defender, so maybe but I’m with you Earl isn’t getting us the number 1 pick in the draft even with our 1st round selection.

    • Del tre

      If we did Earl and our first for Clevelands 1st and 33rd overall we could trade back into the 3 or 4 range get more picks and then pick up that freak strong safety. I think we could swing it for Kam and Earl, plus maybe Lane. That would be a huge boost for cleveland and give us some defensive talent. In my opinion it would be dumb not to trade back in that scenario, huge rewards considering that three will probably be quite a few teams grabbing Qbs early. Could probably net 3 first rounders this year, but thats a daydream, no way any team accepts that offer w/o some other outrageous incentive

  6. Lenny J

    Gotta keep Richardson and Clark to remain competitive, period. Hopefully McDowell comes back. We still have a solid DT in Reed and Jones. Let Bennett play out his contract. Let Jimmy walk, he disappears in big games and isnt worth 10 mil. Build aound Bobby Wagner and Wilson. Move on from Bevell, he is not a bad coordinator but I think we need a different mind. Its a deep RB draft. I would rather use our 1st rd pick on the Best RB available than trade back. If we could get a 2nd rd pick for Sherm Id jump on it.

    • Greg Haugsven

      Just not sure Schneider is going to pick where he is. Know way he wants to wait that long to pick again. Plus the cap hit of a #19 pick is much bigger, I believe that plays a part as well.

      • cha

        Trading down is very likely but if they’re set on a guy at 19 that extra cap hit won’t matter.

        • john_s

          A top 10 pick needs to fall to them in order for Schneids to pick there. It could very well happen. I remember there were a couple of players they would have stayed put for in this past draft. Jonathan Allen being one of them.

  7. Rad_man

    get rid of the old guys and re-sign Clark and Sheldon, who is still in the thick of his prime.

    Jimmy F’ing Graham, adios. Overrated and over paid. A product of his QBs, nothing more.

  8. H

    I have to say I don’t agree with this take at all. We just played the worst game of this era, and it sucked, and I get why people are frustrated. By my god, trade everyone of note bar Wags and Wilson? Leave our roster so bare boned that we get blown out every week for the draft position? Thats not how good teams get it done. Thats not how the Patriots get it done. Thats how teams that suck get it done… you wanna be the Browns? thats how you get there.
    Change is needed I agree, but I fail to see how cutting bait with guys that save us no cap space this year benefits anyone.
    Personally I would love to see Sheldon Richardson return, I think he’s been a great addition, he’s not aaron donald but for what we gave up i think the value, age and locker room fit is good. Obviously im not advocating paying him 15m APY but i don’t see how he’d get that on the open market with his 2.5 sacks in 2 seasons.
    As for the rest of the FA they can go tbh. Only one I really thought might be worth it is Joeckle but his performance in last nights game has made me think the downgrade to a Rees or Roos would be worth the cap savings. I guess maybe McDougald too, but his limited upside makes me kind of inclined to see what we have with Hill.
    Then in 2019 we can let some more guys go depending on how they get on, Kam, Bennett maybe Sherm. And that year we might have the draft stock to replenish and the cap savings would at least make losing them worthwhile
    Rome wasn’t built in a day and the Seahawks won’t be rebuilt in one either.

    • Michigan 12th

      I agree with almost H, except I hope to sign Jimmy to a lower APY deal, and draft an O-lineman that can play guard in the NFL. If that means with our first round pick I am all for it. That will also take a lot of pressure off of a defense being retooled. If we could control clock again.

  9. millhouse-serbia

    Rob why do you think that re signing of Mcdougald is priority? What to do with Delano Hill in that scenario? We gave 3rd round pick for him.

  10. C-Dog

    Pete Carroll might have let something slip on Brock and Salk this morning when asked about the trades for Sheldon and Duane Brown. He said that as he and John weighed things out, they decided that they weren’t going to find value in the coming drafts at those picks that would be greater than those players. Could Silver’s take matched with Carroll’s words indicate they are in fact going to extend 27 yr old Sheldon to a big contract and he will be part of the makeover?

    • millhouse-serbia

      Clark, Richardson, Reed, Jones, Wagner, Thomas, griffin, Hill and hopefully Malik. That is our defensive future. Bright future.

      We need to draft Will and Leo in next two years.

      • SeaHusky

        I think we have a nice, young, defensive nucleus of talent. The DL going forward has some nice pieces in Reed, Jones, Clark, and (hopefully) McDowell. Wagner is just hitting or is in the middle of his prime, and Shaq is a piece they can build around in the secondary with Earl. We’re not completely devoid of young talent.

    • Aaron

      I’d love to keep Sheldon as a disruptive 3 tech, a bigger and younger Bennett. Still think we need a big time NT again because Reed and Sheldon are great, but they aren’t that massive dude in the middle that can’t be moved, a la Mebane in his prime. We have some guys to build around for this new Seahawks team. Russ, Doug, Lockett, Britt, possibly Pocic, and Brown for at least the short term. On defense we have Clark, Sheldon, Naz, Wags, Griffin, Coleman, and Earl to build around.

      It’s going to take 2-3 years though. This offseason is about moving on via trade, release in FA, or retirement from the old core. It’ll free up some cap space and possibly net you some future compensatory picks that will be necessary moving forward into 2019 and beyond. However, this team can’t go all in next year with so many FA contracts. You have to supplement the draft with FA, not the other way around. This draft will likely net you only a few opportunities for impact players. Again, it’s going to take 2-3 years. You have to start from somewhere, and letting the old core leave, not going crazy in FA, and doing the best we can in this draft, will pay dividends in 2019 and beyond.

      That’s only half the struggle, the other half is coaching. Schneider is too good and Paul Allen too smart to not keep him around. Every other coach on this team is on the hot seat. You really have one major question to answer this offseason, does Pete Carroll want to continue to coach this team through a 2-3 season transition period? If so, then it’s time to turn over some coaches below him not because they’re bad, but because we need new voices. If not, then it’s time to change up coaching top to bottom and bring in a new regime. I’d seriously consider someone like Saban if indeed he’s seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for his time at Bama. He’s just the type of contrast to Pete that we might need.

      In a way, I’m sad but also glad the Rams ripped the crown from us mortal combat fatality style. It hurts to see this era end like this, but I’d rather it did it this way instead of gradually. I’d rather we don’t make the playoffs instead of getting in again and thinking we’re still a good team that just needs a few players to make us great. We aren’t that team, we’re not a few great players away. That might have been true after 2012, but not today. We’re in transition right here and now. This isn’t a build up, this is a reboot and rebuild.

      • C-Dog

        If in fact this team is headed towards some form of rebuild, I am pretty sure Paul Allen will have a long conversation with Pete Carroll to determine his commitment level for sticking it out. The Carroll front is total speculation by Silver. Carroll may in fact be quite willing to stick around for another 3 to 5 seasons, and would be quite willing to take on the new challenge of rebuilding. Carroll is a different cat. I think he digs challenges, and has the eternal chip on his shoulder. If Allen gets the vibe Carroll is not down for it, then I’m sure they part ways, but if Carroll wants to still coach, isn’t he going to have to rebuild somewhere else anyways?

    • cha

      ‘Let something slip?’ That’s not a major revelation. The draft capital traded and Sheldon’s rare skill set pretty well supports the notion that they intended to sign him to an extension when they made the trade.

      Whether they should, and can they reach an extension that works for both sides is the far more interesting conversation IMO.

      • C-Dog

        There’s been some speculation that Sheldon might be viewed as more a rental to buy time for Malik McDowell to get right, and Seattle recoups a 2019 comp pick by not extending him. Sheldon has recently indicated he’s looking to get paid big time. Before this Silver story, it almost stood to reason Seattle would let him walk, but if they are going to chop a bunch of salaries, maybe they are intent to reaching a deal.

        • drewdawg11

          Why not franchise him and attempt to recoup picks? If he stays, he stays and you pay him well to be a good player on your defense. I’d rather attempt to get a first round pick back for Sheldon than let him wan and get a third rounder the following season.
          1st round pick or another year of sheldon >>> gaping hole in the middle and a comp pick.

          • C-Dog

            That’s an interesting take. If you can’t work something out in a contract, you could work out and sign and trade. I like it.

          • GerryG

            Because nobody is giving Seattle a first rd pick to sign Sheldon to a massive contract.

  11. line_hawk

    First, the advantage of retooling in 2018 is your 2019 cap is freed up. So if you need to, you can always sign FA with low 2018 dollars and a larger signing bonus. It leaves the option open to sign the Mcdougalds and Richardsons of the world if they want to. Second, you can potentially get 4th-5th rounders for Sherman/Bennett/Wright in 2018, picks that would restock some of the churn. Third and most important, retooling will provide valuable reps to young players who will need 1-2 years to come to their own. Imagine if Kam or Sherman were sitting behind aging starters in 2011. Do you think they would have developed into stars for our superbowl window?

    If you start retooling in 2019, you lose too much of 2019 cap in dead money.

    Personally, I believe it time to swallow the hard pill and start the rebuild. The sooner we hit the bottom, the sooner we will bounce back.

    However, if we start the rebuild now, Carroll most likely doesn’t stay in 2018. There is no incentive for Carroll to stay in 2018 if we are releasing his core players. Except collecting his paychecks. So, at the end of the day, it all comes down to what Carroll wants to do in 2018. And if Paul Allen want’s to force a change if he thinks its good for the long term.

  12. KD

    “There isn’t another big name college coach with a history of culture building and a NFL background”

  13. Kenny Sloth

    Just wanna share that before Rob had a patreon he refused pretty much any form of compensation from fans of his site.

    Some people ended up sending him like gift cards and amazon wallet stuff straight to his email.

    Such a humble and dedicated person to offer this resource for so long asking nothing but respect for the site in return.

    • SeaHusky

      Not even that! Rob’s using some of the Patreon funds to purchase subscriptions to notable draft analysts that can only help enhance the quality of the material he posts on here. This blog is truly amazing.

    • dingbatman


      • Michael M.

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. SDB is my favorite site on the entire world wide web!

        • Kenny Sloth

          Same. Been coming for almost a decade now.

          Since I was 13.

          I’ve literally grown up on this website, guys

          • Kenny Sloth

            I was 16 when Rob published my first scouting report on Margus Hunt from Estonia

            • Kenny Sloth

              I was so excited when we drafted Aaron Curry

              Ohh how the times change us.

    • Michigan 12th

      Yes Rob thank you for all you do. You make life more pleasurable!

      • Rob Staton

        Appreciate these messages guys. It really, truly means a lot.

  14. Bigten

    What about urban Meyer? Could he be a possible replacement? I don’t think he leaves OSU but I would take him over Saban or Haurbaugh.
    And I am all for the trading of Bennett, Kam and even maybe Earl for the right price, but I am pretty against trading Sherman. First, we won’t get much back because of his injury, at most a 4th. Second, I think he is going to come back and kill it. He is the only personality I really Love on this defense and he might be the smartest DB out there. You can teach football, but you can’t teach what Sherman brings in the form of football intelligence and passion.
    Also when we talk about changing coaches and past drafts and decisions. I think it’s worth noting that you can’t necessarily put the blame on lack of hits on JS. He is a manager, and as a manager you work with what you have. Including coaches. So a lot of his picks or decisions are directly tied to how cable and carrol coach and what they desire and need. The misses on lineman are because JS is handcuffed to pick what cable wants and can use. Cable prefers athleticism opposed to talent. That’s not all JS fault. JS is trying to meet what the coaches desire. Just think that’s good for thought when talking about losing JS as well as other coaches

    • Michael M.

      I really can’t stand Urban Meyer… haha. Hope that doesn’t happen.

    • EQRoom

      I was around Urban a bit once upon a time as a lowly student equipment manager. It’s been long ago, but Urban is not the NFL type at all, imo. I don’t think you’ll ever see him in the league. But he is amazing as a leader and motivator, his success is not surprising.

  15. Gohawks5151

    Ha. Funny i just made a comment with a lot of the same thoughts. Even mentioned Josh McDaniels. You cannot burn it all down. You cant get rid of coaches AND the vets. Who is going to coach up all the draft capital you sacrificed the vets for if you get rid of every one? Our players development is our saving grace. Specific things need to be added to the staff to help beef up our faults. i have a hard time believing that there will be a mass exodus of vets but time will tell. The next 2 weeks are huge. If we lose out and end up 14 or something i could see a trade back a few spots that nets a third or something. Again, the Eagles, Vikings, Saints and Panthers all had short turn around on 1 or 2 bad seasons. I don’t see how we need to start completely over. Re-tool sure. We have the most coveted thing in the whole sport. A MVP level, franchise QB. We cannot waste a single year of him.

    • Rik

      Problem is, we’ve already wasted three years of his career with a horrible offensive line and game plan. Sunday was just the most glaring example of the Hawk’s offensive incompetence. Our offense has relied almost solely on Wilson’s creativity and athleticism.

      Anybody think Tom Hermann might be a good offensive coordinator?

    • Drew

      It would be the job of the new coaches to coach up the players replacing the old vets

      • GoHawks5151

        I get that. But that lends itself to a shift in strategy (Not shorting the O line) rather than a full tear down. Our talent evaluation and development is what has kept us in it. Coaching is a part of that. Pete is still the best DB coach out there. Trading Sherm and letting Pete go is a huge risk. No garuntee what you get. Even a high pick could end up being a Kelly Jennings or Josh Wilson. Proven development of Sherm, Max, Browner, Shead, Thurman, Lane, and now Griffin lends more faith in sticking with the current staff.

        • Bigten

          The problem I see with what you just said, is that I don’t think there is any question or argument that PC is the best DB coach out there. The track record is correct. The problem is that he isn’t just our DB coach, he’s not even just def coordinator, he’s our head coach. DBs alone don’t win you Super Bowls. The evaluation of talent at other positions and what the coaches are asking for is the problem. And scheme has to be looked st as well. When you have the def front we have, teams should be scared and we should be getting penetration and stops. It shouldn’t be walk ins when the team has the ball inside the 5. A offensive line with the talent we have on ours, should be able to get a semblance of a push. And this isn’t a reaction to the previous game, but has been a talked about issue for years.

  16. Ground_Hawk

    If the season were to end today the Seahawks would be drafting at #18 in 2018, and the Browns have at least 11 picks this year; 5 in the first two rounds. If willing, Cleveland could trade for Seattle’s pick at #18 with their native 2nd (#33) and #64 (a pick that Philly traded to Cleveland last year). This way the Browns would be picking 3 times in the top-20, and Seattle would accumulate an extra pick, thus allowing them to pick twice in the top-75; picks that I would vote to be spent on DE/LB and RB. Seattle then could potentially draft RB Damien Harris at #33, and DE Marquis Haynes with pick #64.

    • Aaron

      Browns would make a logical and good trading partner. They’re still a total mess and might be looking for impact players in the middle to end of the first. I’d love to see us drop to the end of the first or early second and accumulate a third and fourth. Gotta think that, despite needing more than just a RB, we’d still pick a RB with our first pick. A great RB isn’t the end all be all, but if Pete’s still our coach I know that’s his first priority on offense.

      • Ground_Hawk

        I thought about mocking a trade with Cleveland’s third and fourth, like you mentioned, but I thought Cleveland trading their last 2nd round pick (they currently have 3 second round picks) with their first 2nd rounder would give Seattle a better opportunity to draft a higher quality player. This is all assuming the talent is still there of course, because it could play out like you suggested, and Seattle opts to go for quantity (3rd and 4th round picks) over outsider-perceived-quality (a late 2nd round pick).

  17. Adam B.

    I have to agree with Silver (et al), that the writing is on the wall for a rebuild/revamp.
    It was being discussed last off-season with the potential trade of Sherman, and the shellacking at the hands of an up and coming Rams team may be the impetus for some major changes.

    That said, 2018 feels a year early for any 2009-10 style drastic overhauls. First off, you have all the current roster holes and dead money issues Rob listed, but then you also have a very

    • Adam B.

      –(Cut myself off, sorry)
      …a very limited amount of draft resources with the missing 2nd and 3rd round picks.

      I’d argue that 2019 seems a much more likely period for a total overhaul/rebuild. Many more aging players will be coming off contract (or at least will have much less dead money against the cap), plus the Seahawks should have much greater draft capital with most of their original picks, and a plethora of compensation picks once the current crop of UFAs move on.

      That said, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if we see some major trades occurring this off-season.

      • Ground_Hawk

        Seattle has 11 UFA’s this offseason, who are making about $1 mil/per season now, so next years Comp. pick awards are going to be interesting. Some are predicting that Sheldon could receive offers upwards of $14 mil/year, which might put him out of Seattle’s market, but if that happened it could net Seattle a 3rd round Comp. pick.

        • Ground_Hawk


          Seattle has 11 UFA’s who are making *at least* $1mil/per season now, so next years Comp. pick awards are going to be interesting.

          Sorry about that.

  18. HawkFan907

    Before hitting the reset button… let’s see if we can still make the playoffs. Win out and hope some other teams lose. I have always felt like we needed to start the rebuild in 2019 when even more contracts expire and we accrue a number of comp picks from this offseason.

    We will see if Pete chooses to retire. If/when he does that is when the full rebuild will begin. The Rams are looking like the team of the future right now, and we need to get younger in a hurry. That’s why what the Patriots are doing is so crazy. It is crazy. I was hoping we could emulate that but it didn’t come to pass…

  19. vrtkolman

    Our division is going to be very interesting to follow going forward. Things are moving towards a 49ers/Rams rivalry – two brilliant offensive minds with some good pieces on offense. Marquise Goodwin is averaging over 100 yards receiving a game since Jimmy G took over, which tells me all Kyle Shannahan needs is a working QB and he will get results. Best offensive coach in football imo, and it isn’t really close. Said it before, the 49ers got a steal with Shanny and he’s going to be a major problem going forward for the Seahawks.

    • vrtkolman

      If the 49ers draft Barkley and sign a good free agent O lineman or two, they will be the new Rams next year.

      • FAN Person

        Exactly! Dangerous!

  20. Volume12

    Things are going great in Seattle. BWagz taking shots at ET, the team is moving backwards, Pete continues to talk like a used car salesman, still can’t protect for Russ for more than a game, fun times.

    • Mishima

      Pete builds empires that collapse not crumble.

  21. Rowlandice

    Despite yesterday’s results and to be truthful, this season in general, the idea this team is needing a full rebuild under a whole new coaching staff is way out of proportion. Will it suck if they don’t make the playoffs? Sure. Might be REALLY interesting if they do and get another crack at the Rams! Or if they don’t get in then our draft capitol overall moves up a few slots in value. Then we here at our favorite Seahawks Blog get to discuss and watch the next years team building progress, In reality, I think that’s a major reason why I come to this site more often then any other site is because I’m fascinated by the whole team building process. So don’t fret over 1 game, just sit back and enjoy the process and when we get great seasons, well, that’s just a big bonus.

  22. Volume12

    Haven’t seen one mention of Mike Vrabel. There’s your next great NFL HC.

  23. Volume12

    You could make an argument that perhaps the biggest loss for this team was Dan Quinn. Richard doesn’t strike me as a leader of men.

    • SeaHusky

      RIchard seems over his head at this point. I don’t doubt that he’s a fantastic DB coach, and the entire secondary always spoke very highly of him. But there’s absolutely no way that he’s the best option out there when we’re talking about DCs. One of the few things that I have always disliked about Pete is his unwillingness to apply his “Always Compete” mantra to his coaching staff. You can’t expect your players to respect your philosophy and mindset if you’re constantly giving your coaching staff a free pass. I’m so sick and tired of seeing this defense constantly give up 3rd and longs. It’s been a recurrent problem for years now, and there’s zero excuse for it being a recurring problem with the talent we have all across the board.

      • Greg Haugsven

        It does feel a little like he is over his head. Losing coordinators is always bigger than it appears. Look at the Falcons offense.

        • Mishima

          Telling TV shot:

          Down 20+, Richard has sideline meeting with his D: passionate, dramatic, ending with ‘all-in’ group hug or whatever.

          Knowing this, Rams anticipate over aggressive play, dial up a screen and punk us for a big gain.

          Coaching > culture. Always.

          • GoHawks5151

            Culture brought us a ring

            • Mishima

              According to hive mind.

              Lynch + young/hungry/talented defense + better DC and position coaches won us a championship.

              • GoHawks5151

                Lynch and defense fall under Pete’s culture or defense and ball control. Many coaches remain. Pete is the real DC.

                • Kenny Sloth

                  Everything goes through Carroll on both sides of the ball.

                  Its totally disconnected to think he just hamds the reins to Tom and Bevell

    • John_s

      The biggest thing with Kris is that he’s switched the defense from a cover 3 based team to a man to man bas d team

    • C-Dog

      DQ was tremendous but that those Super Bowl teams were loaded defensively when RW was on that rookie deal. That’s the * that I put next to DQ in Seattle. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a great coach, but I also get the feeling that absence has made the heart grow fonder mightily right after he left for Atlanta and KR became the next DC. KR kinda was set up to fill big shoes with less in the cupboard.

  24. Hawk Eye

    before everyone panics about the Rams and 49’rs dominating the NFC West, I suggest you look around and see how many teams have a great year and then come back and 3 or 4 more good to great years consecutively after that. NE, Pitt, Sea and GB are the only ones always contending. Carolina seems to have a good year followed by a bad year, and they are not the only ones. I suspect the Rams come back to earth next year. Teams will game plan for them and they had a good year with no injuries. And for everyone saying Sherm and Kam, Bennett are old, how old is their LT? 35? 36? Injuries tend to even out, with teams playing in the playoffs every year probably getting a few more. 49’rs had a few good years, then stuck. Az had 2 good years, then has been below average. The Hawks still have a good core, but they need to have a healthy team next year. That will cure a lot of ills.

  25. Greg Haugsven

    Look at some of these names available to you at 18.


    • Greg Haugsven

      Ferrell and Hurst as well.

    • Trevor

      If either of those 3 is on the board I make the pick and don’t trade back. I think all 3 have the potential to be impact starters.

      • Greg Haugsven

        I agree, think I might take James of the three but all are good.

  26. Greg Haugsven

    2018 schedule becoming clearer:

    49ers (twice)
    Rams (twice)
    Cardinals (twice)
    Packers (better be at home this time)
    Saints or Panthers (looking like Panthers)

    Looks tough on paper.

    • peter

      current team healed up but if course lessened by age and injuries minus avril and I’ll say it kam…..thats an 8 and 8. I know things can change in an instant but the rams possibly the niners are trending up. cowboys are an unpredictable out. green bay has our number. every afc team can catch us looking…..

  27. Michael M.

    I don’t ever want the Pete Carroll era to end, but obviously all things eventually do. I’ve got my fingers crossed for another decade with Carroll, but like Rob said, it’s all about timing. I wish we could have held onto Dan Quinn long enough to take over, but he was just too ready to be a head coach. I wonder if Gruden would be an option?

  28. FuzzyLOgic

    What pick would we get if we go 9-7?

    • Greg Haugsven

      Depends on the other teams that go 9-7 as well. I believe tie breakers are strength of schedule.

  29. C-Dog


    If Seattle is intent on doing this, than they better be prepared to go “All In,” and leave no stones unturned in the process.

    That starts with Paul Allen. After the season is done, Paul Allen needs to sit down with John Schneider and Pete Carroll to figure out where they are at. He has to know whether Schneider is looking to be the next GM in Green Bay, or if he is prepared to call Seattle home for the long haul. He needs to know if Pete Carroll has the desire to rebuild and coach beyond 2019. There is every reason to believe that both would be all in for this. Schneider probably loves the idea of building through the draft, and is incredibly popular in the area. Pete Carroll is a different cat at age 66. John Clayton mentioned on his show recently that in discussions he has had with Pete this year, he’s gotten the very strong vibe Carroll wants to be coaching in his 70s. If so, and Carroll leaves to coach somewhere else, he is still probably looking at a rebuild. Why not just stay put and do it here? If Allen determines Schneider is looking to go back home to GB, and Carroll doesn’t want to tear it down, then Allen needs to look for a new GM and a new HC. If that happens, no player on this roster is safe.

    If it is a new GM and HC that did not draft RW, they might decide to trade the plucky passer away for picks.

    If Carroll and Schneider are sticking around, RW is probably the player who is the safest, and Bobby Wagner is probably next safest. They will need to determine if Earl Thomas has the mindset to play with a bunch of new blood in front of him, and in the back end. If they are going to do this rebuild, they got to not mess around and half #ss it. It probably means getting rid of Richard Sherman, Kam, and Bennett, and Avril. It might mean KJ is gone as well. Personally, I think Bobby would be perfectly happy being the Guy on the defense. Is Earl going to be done for that? If not, they got to trade him.

    Offensively, Jimmy Graham, Paul Richardson, and Luke Joekel should be gone. If you are going to rebuild, get 2019 draft comps for all these players. Maybe hang onto Luke Willson

    Defensively, do not sign Sheldon Richardson, get the 2019 3rd round comp pick. Maybe hang onto Bradley McDougald.

    If you are doing to rebuild, sign only veterans cut off other rosters so as to not loose those comps.

    You might well be able to trade Kam, Bennett, KJ, and Sherman, but if you can’t find suitors, cut them. Earl is probably going to land you your best draft capital. Maybe trade Earl to Atlanta to reunite him with his former DC. Sherman might be able to get you a late 3rd around pick from a team who is looking for that one player to put them over the top for a Super Bowl run. KJ, Bennett, and Kam probably aren’t going to get you much.

    Draft could look something like this.

    20: R1P20

    New blood on the defense to replace KJ Wright

    22: R1P22

    Atlanta pick for Earl Thomas becomes new starting RB

    86: R3P22

    Atlanta pick for Earl Thomas. Could battle Malik McDowell for LDE spot.

    93: R3P29

    NE pick for Sherman, hedge for Tyler Lockett

    122: R4P20

    Outside corner to compete for a starting CB spot.

    144: R5P5

    Athletic TE to mix in with Willson and Vannett

    151: R5P12

    big squatty DT with some pass rush to mix in with Jarran Reed and Naz Jones

    168: R5P29

    Under sized athletic edge rusher to work in at SAM

    229: R7P10

    More depth at WR

    249: R7P30

    More depth at OG

    250: R7P31

    More depth at safety

    Be prepared to go against NFC Champion LA Rams and upstart SF 49ers with this the following roster.

    QB Russell Wilson, and back up X

    RB Harris, Carson, Davis, McKissic, Prosise

    WR Baldwin, Lockett, Darboh, Pettis, Moore, Gallup

    TE Willson, Vannett, Breneman

    LT Brown, Fant

    LG Odhiambo, Roos, Madison

    C, Britt, Hunt

    RG, Pocic, Madison

    RT Ifedi, Fant

    LDE McDowell, Ejiofor, Jordan

    RDE Clark, Eliofor, Jordan

    NT Reed, Justin Jones

    DT Naz Jones, Q Jeff

    WILL Roquon Smith

    MLB Wagner

    SAM Haynes

    LCB Shead, Alexander

    RCB Griffin, Elliot

    NICKEL Justin Coleman

    FS McDougald, Thomspon

    SS Delano Hill, Tyree Robinson

    Offensively, you are going unproven at RB, and LG.

    Defensively, you are doing unproven at LDE, rookie at WILL, and maybe SAM, maybe LCB, and you are going unproven at SS. You are also going with McDougald at FS as probably a bridge to the next special athlete that they hope to have there, but that probably doesn’t come until 2019.

    • peter

      I’m coming around to the PC/JS stays everything is fine nothing to see here folks, way of thinking.

      the line next year is Brown/Fant or ?/ Britt/ Pocic/ Ifedi

      The interior dline is actually great, including Richardson who signs an extension, but edge rushers need only apply. Clark improves, Jordan improves, and Seattle signs some rush OLB tweener dude

      wagz stays, kj wright as Chris Collinsworth is fond of mentioning is one of the most unheralded LB’s in the game. Seattle drops the precious little draft capital they have into SAM backer(s) mostly plural. So they stop getting murdered on 3rd down.

      Sherman is good but never great and real coaching comes into play whether it’s mike tyson or someone else.

      Prich, Graham, and Willson are all gone. Seattle does it’s best to find a field stretcher or a yac guy in the mold of Rice or Tate. Perhaps v12’s guy DJ moore.

      The most important piece Seattle gets in a surprise move to stay in the first round is a RB that can get 8 TD’s and 1100 yards. Seattle has learned that a paltry 68 yards a game is what separates them from resting their dline, which sets up their DB’s and lets Russell wilson air it out on play action. Seattle finds the the RB that can create the most, hammer it home the hardest but beyond SPARQ they find a guy that can fight the like of Donald the best. The pick is Damien harris.

      Then after eating it in 2018 they go into 2019 with a nice salary cap situation and picks 1-3+comp 3, 4+comp 4, 5, 6, 7th, comp 7 all the comps coming from wr/te releases at which time they can truly rebuild.

      • C-Dog

        I like it.

        Watching Freeman run tonight made me salivate for Seattle to find that back. I’d be totally thrilled if Seattle drafted Damien Harris.

        I’ve been watching DJ Moore. Would love to see him in Seahawks blue, as well.

        • peter

          It’s a lot of lumps to take but to get into 2019 8 picks and cleaned up cap space, I think Seattle should do something like this.

          For the love of all that is seahawky, no more draft pick trades. I don’t care how you view the draft class. you need players that are younger always with this setup and aggressive defense where guys will want to get paid once and twice while concurrently watching their age increase and the likelihood of injury increase.

          • C-Dog

            Personally, I would kinda like to have been the fly on the wall during those conversations between Pete and John when the conversations of trading for Richardson and Brown were going down. I kinda have a hunch that Pete might have been guiding those.

  30. Greg Haugsven

    Also won my fantasy football semi final yesterday 90.5 to 90 in dramatic fashion. My heart is still racing. At least there was something good yesterday.

    • Greg Haugsven

      Just to bad I needed Todd Gurley 4 touchdowns do do it.

  31. Greg Haugsven

    Also, where do people live in this here community. I currently reside in Rocklin, CA but am from Kirkland, WA.

    • Trevor

      I live in Canada on East Coast.

      • mantis

        i live in nanaimo on vancouver island

      • Mishima

        Seattle native living in Colorado.

        • Greg Haugsven

          Does anyone actually live in Seattle? Near Montreal Trevor

          • TJ

            Bothell… a Seattle suburb

            • peter

              I grew up in seattle and Bothell! still the same silly motto? “stay for a day or stay for a lifetime”

              • peter

                oh and I live in a tiny town near eugene oregon. go ducks “question mark, frowny face”

          • C-Dog

            I’m a Seattlite.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Tacoma, WA grit city baby!!

    • Nathan W.

      U district, moving to Ballard!

      • Nathan W.

        ( SKO DAWGSSSSS )

    • Myfanwy365

      Chester, UK

  32. Mike B.

    Although this season has turned into a major disappointment (I picked the Hawks to go 11-5 this year and win the NFC West, with the Rams finishing 3rd at 8-8, ha), here’s why this isn’t exactly the end of an era and why I project hope for 2018:

    – The Seahawks will turn their first-round pick into 2nd and 3rd round picks and acquire a high-end RB and an underappreciated pass-rusher in the draft.
    – The running back group will have Carson, McKissic, high-end rookie RB, and maybe Mike Davis for depth.
    – A solid tight end group will include underrated but very good Jared Cook (on a 2-year team-friendly deal), Luke Willson, and Nick Vannett. Cook is still fast and has great hands.
    – WR group will now include speedy, developed David Moore, who can also be the new return specialist. An underrated big rookie wideout will also be in the WR group. The Seahawks really need a Pharoh Cooper-type player for returns.
    – George Fant will be back and will make a good right tackle. Duane Brown will start at LT, Jordan Roos will become LG, and Ifedi will slide into RG. This will be the best offensive line we’ve seen in a while. Run blocking shall improve!
    – Sherman, Shead, and DeAndre Elliott will come back healthy next year and dramatically improve the secondary and special teams.
    – The defensive line unit will include, among others, Richardson, Reed, Naz Jones, Clark, Bennett, Jordan (finally 100% healthy), 2nd/3rd round rookie, and…Carlos Dunlap! Dunlap is the closest player out there to Calais Campbell (and is 3 years younger than Campbell) and would be a major force along the line. A bit of a pipe dream, but the Hawks can possibly lure him away from Cincy, as 2018 is the last year of his contract there and the team will save over $7 mil if he’s elsewhere in 2018.
    – A very good rookie kicker (Daniel Carlson from Auburn?) immediately improves the kicking game
    – A very good rookie/young punter improves the punting game

    • Greg Haugsven


      Where is Pocic as he was a 2nd rounder and deserves to be on the line?
      How do you get Dunlap away from Cincy if he is under contract?

  33. Lenny J

    Even if we make the playoffs this season doesent seem like we would be competitive. It wouldnt be the worst thing getting a top 15 pick for one season. We could be in Range to grab DT Vita Vea of S Derwin James. Both would be day 1 starters. As I see going foward for the future we need a Safety like James, a huge run stuffer, another edge rusher, and OLB. Derwin James would be my vote for 2018

    • Trevor

      If he was there Lenny I would love that.

      My Top 5 Hawks Prospects ( all will likely be gone by the time we pick)

      #1 Quenton Nelson- Pro bowl LG potential early
      #2 Barkley- Favourite college RB since Zeke
      #3 Derwin James- legit replacement for Kam at SS
      #4 Christian Wilkins – Sheldon Richardson without the price tag
      #5 Vita Vea- ideal run stuffer and space eater that would require constant double teams making Wags even better.

      If any of these guys are on the board when we pick I really hope JS does not try to get cute again with the trade back.

    • Del tre

      If we are going for a rebuild let Carson sit out the rest of the year, IR Bobby so theres no risk of injury, IR Earl for his nagging injuries and let the rookies play on defense. Move McDougold up to FS and have Tedric or Lano start at SS. Bring Mike Tyson up have him play CB #2. We need to get serious, tanking and making a small trade back is worth it. I’m hoping for 8-8 at this point, i want more ugly showings from the coaching staff on offense. We need to fire Cable and Bevell, the inconsistancy is ridiculous and it all starts with coaching. We have 2 of the worst equipped coaches in the league for Russell Wilson, he has such a diverse and unique skillset its embarassing to see it wasted on long developing play action behind a horrid offensive line. I mean are you kidding me? We have 2 slippery 5-10 receivers a 6’6 possession tight end and we can’t just pass for 5 yards on first down? Yes Russell’s decision making factors in but if Russell really wants to be MVP thats where this offense needs to go. We can’t make the play of the game every offensive snap, its apparent the running game will be inconsistent, and that the o line play will be too. When this happens we need and OC who can scheme around it and take pressure off those positional groups. PC is a great coach but his staffing decisions as of late have not been. If we change our offensive coaching staff this offseason i fully expect us to be highly competitive for the NFC, if we don’t, we just carry on with insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Look how significan the change was for the Rams, that defense is no better than under Fisher, its the offense keeping them well rested, playing ball control and making short gains. Theres a reason they have wide open receivers against zone coverage and theres a reason the hawks never do unless Russell Wilson scrambles.

  34. Trevor

    Everyone loves when JS trades back. But most of our best picks are when he trades up to grab a guy like Locket or Clark.

    • GoHawks5151

      Reed too

  35. Rawls

    Josh McDaniel’s could make help Russ take the next step to becoming an elite pocket passer. His scheme could mitigate the o line performance. If we can get him i’d be willing to move on from Pete. I’m not sure if he’d even want to continue coaching in his 70’s with the LOB era potentially over.

  36. Kenny Sloth

    Thinking back on past drafts….

    I think theres a huge chance that PCJS would take Aaron Curry fourth overall if they were in position to.

    Dude fits our mold, athletically, he always said all the right things.

    Chose Wake Forest to get revenge on ACC school scholarship snubs. What went wrong.

    He was considered such a safe pick! Was it organizational dysfunction that stunted his growth? Pete had him for at least a season iirc. Maybe he wasnt quite the dog he wanted to project that he was.

    • C-Dog

      Didn’t possess great instincts for LB, or discipline. He was a physical freak, and a vicious hitter, but often took lousy angles and would get caught out of position. Was out of the league quickly after traded to Oakland. Kinda think he probably wasn’t very coachable, and such a high pick, probably thought his job was safe.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Complacency.. All the more shades our need for constant competition for spots.

        I kinda wish the seahawks were like a European soccer team that develops players and sells them on for max value, because there’s always a guy to take his spot, but thats not really how the nfl works

  37. FAN Person

    PAUL ALLEN needs to go to Pete Carroll and tell him that Bevell and Cable are OUT!

    After seeing how IMPACT FULL a new offensive coach can be, Sean McVay, Paul Allen needs to Force the Issue, as Pete LIES when he talks about ‘comPeteing’ all the time…ie (Blair Walsh-costs 2 games)

    Time for NEW BLOOD on the offensive side of the ball… Russell needs a fresh start, as our offensive consistency is awful…

    Norv Turner anyone?

    Who else is out there???

    • Kenny Sloth

      Yeah thats what we need. Norv Turner. There’s a forward thinker.

      I don’t thinj any good will come from Paul Allen telling Pete Carroll anything.

      • Kenny Sloth

        But Pete totally needs to double down on competition.

        This system doesnt work when your starters arent graduating and getting drafted 3 years in.

        • Del tre

          No one notices if the system isn’t working when you win, we got away with that because of our defense for a lot of years, not an option anymore with Russ at 20 million a year. I get that rushing was solid with marshawn and Russell
          probably the best rushing QB, RB duo ever, both were good enough to succeed without Cable and Russell was viable pass rush threat. We still got shutdown on offense even with all that talent. We still see the Hawks fail now. If we’ve learned one thing, how you start matters, and this coaching staff cannot get this team to start well consistently. Our offense shouldn’t rely so heavily on Russells magic, thats what got us to 40-7. Like you say, need to bring in some conpetition, look for someone with a plan and if we find someone we believe in, say goodbye to Bevell. I thinknits actually a good position, you have a lot of talent thats been misused, if youre the person who turned the seahawks offense around then you’ll gain some notoriety. Gonna suck to watch the NFC east dominate the playoffs, but i got the saints winning the NFC, if you can’t stop the run you cant win. Pretty much Pats by default AFC. That’ll be a good superbowl.

          • Del tre

            Bah its late excuse my errors NFC south not east

      • C-Dog


        • FAN Person

          I only said Norv Turner, who has multiple super bowls, because I can’t think of any other names as an OC…

          I wanted to have a serious debate over who could replace Bevell and Cable…?

          I don’t know coaches and college coaches…etc…

          • Kenny Sloth

            Well he coached the Cowboys like a quarter of a century ago.

            Im sure Willie Taggert will be jumping ship at FSU soon, anyway. He’d be a good fit to replace Pete down the line. Very similar energy and management style.

            The biggest names likely wont want to leave their cushy positions and definitely not to be an OC under someone like Coach Carroll.

          • GoHawks5151

            There in lies the issue. Not any good candidates. Last few years have seen the forward thinkers all get head jobs. Josh McDaniels, Mike Mcoy other meh options. Matt Nagy and Frank Reich from KC and PHI come from diverse systems. Jim Bob Cooter was a hot name too

          • Ishmael

            Okay… So if you don’t actually have any answers, or even suggestions, why are you shouting that Bevell and Cable are OUT? There are real problems with coaching in the league. Hard enough to find a guy who knows what he’s doing, let alone one who’s happy being told what to do by Carroll, and dealing with a pretty unique player group.

    • Mishima

      We need a coach that uses all caps, like Caughlin.


      • Ishmael

        Why don’t they just BLOCK BETTER and SCORE POINTS?

        • Mishima

          LOL. We need more GRIT and DISCIPLINE!

  38. 12th chuck

    it doesn’t seem like maybe there was some thoughts by JS that we would rebuild some after this year? Look at all the contracts that are up, and how many were 1 year signings. I am ready for a new defensive coordinator, and time for Cable to leave as well. Time to give up on zone blocking. Keep Bevell. Let Richard go as well. Let graham walk, s Richardson walk, cut lacey try to trade or cut Bennett, that’s all I have for now

    • Kenny Sloth

      The CBA expires before 2020, likely the reason for no extensions beyond this window.

      • 12th chuck

        hadn’t thought about that but there is still two years left under this cba.

        • Kenny Sloth

          Right. It runs out right before the 2020 season?

          Hopefully there’s no f****** lockdown again

          • Ishmael

            There’s deffo going to be a lockdown, and there should be. The players got screwed last time, their union is hopeless.

          • peter

            THere’s going to be a strike. The NFL is still the most profitable sports league in America and the player contracts are the absolute worst. I get that there are more players in the NFL than MLB and NBA but the contracts are trash.

            move to 17-18 games but open up roster spots, further change IR rules. And for the love of god, I get math is hard but have teams play on Thursday following a bye and have teams that play abroad treat it like an away game for the hometown fans scheduling wise,

            Oh and Goodell can set personnel policy rules and conduct but have an independent team administer them. And get rid of the current refs. You should not as a fan or player =, know who the ref is and have the announcers have graphics about how the refs favor or not favor your team. YOU ARE A REF.

  39. Kenny Sloth

    Ima laugh my ass off when Ifedi gets reupped instead of a fan favorite.


    • Kenny Sloth

      (Few have ever been in the refs book as much in history, too though)

    • mac

      Willie Taggert is a real D**k

    • peter

      I’m not going to laugh. I think the dude based on the “movable linemen principle,” in Seattle needs another year at RT as that his first year was a joke playing dude built like that at RG. I don’t like his penalties. But the interior has been toasty, warm garbage all season. Ifedi I think (hope) pulls a Britt next year and shuts people up.

  40. C-Dog

    Anyone following Davis Hsu’s twitter campaign suggesting that the team should trade Russell Wilson, and that he is the offensive problem?

    .. because that was about an hour wormhole of my life that I will never get back. Even Hawkblogger started jumping on the bandwagon, suggesting the team could him with Alex Smith.


    One blow out game against a healthier, younger, probably more talented Rams team in 2017, where the whole team played like total crap, not only Russ, and it really is becoming Let’s Blow the Whole Thing Up.


    • Ishmael

      Are Hsu, Stranger et al. back on that wagon? I loathe Seahawks twitter. I thought they’d embarrassed themselves enough to put it away during the middle of the season, but apparently not. The most childish, spoiled, fans around.

      Love too find top-five QBs in the middle rounds of every draft. Don’t know why teams don’t do it more often. Draft them, get their five years for cheap, trade them for more draft picks, profit?! Real market inefficiency there. Someone should let Schneider know.

      • C-Dog

        Fuel to their reasoning seems to be looking at how Jacksonville, Minnesota, and LA Rams are winning with defense and a run game, and no franchise QB. Kind of ignoring that Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Steelers, Patriots, Eagles (before Wentz injury) are also winning with defenses, run games, AND franchise QBs.

        Hsu seems convinced RW has regressed over the past two years (never mind playing through multi serious injuries in 2016, and no run game to rely on in 2017). At one point, seemed to suggest that it is difficult to find a back to play with Russ because of his unique traits, and how the OC needs to gimmick.

        I get if RW is not your preferred flavor, if you’re tired of him sometimes not finding his WRs through the traffic, ocassionally bailing the pocket, etc. I get it. He’s a really short quarterback. However, there are a fair amount of games where he does a lot of damage to defenses from the pocket, when the offense is on schedule. When he is on it, he is an elite QB. When he is not, he comes back down to the rest of the pack. The way I see it through, when I saw the lowly Dolpins beat the Patriots last week, I didn’t see Tom Brady playing elite that game.

        IMO, people just need to chill a bit here. Seattle may not make the playoffs for the first time in five years, they might have to turn some roster over next year.

        Do we really have to go to extremes of choosing the HC over the QB now?

        Good lordly, I think we’ve gotten a wee bit spoiled here.

        • Rowlandice

          Yup. +1

    • 12th chuck

      even read fire Carroll, fire Schneider smh team is regressing, but come on. need new blocking scheme and d coordinator

    • Matt

      I think him and Stanger are mentally ill. Really unstable guys. Hsu went on a rant about his SAT score in the midst of his “Russell Wilson really isn’t that good,” shenanigans. Doesn’t strike me as someone who is all there.

      Don’t get me wrong; I do think this team is broken. I think it is beyond stupid to trade the hardest to find commodity in all of sports: a high end QB. Drastic changes need to be made. I’m just not sure selling off your best commodity, who is young; is the way to go.

      • Ishmael

        I don’t think they’re ill, they’re just too invested in their internet status as draft/Seahawks ‘gurus.’ They don’t like it when people disagree with them, so they start appealing to their own authority.

        Not sure that the team is broken, but it is badly damaged. I’m actually glad things blew up the way they did. Better to blow up and make changes than slowly slide into mediocrity.

      • C-Dog

        I think Hsu is a passionate fan for his Hawks, sees what he sees, and thinks RW is overpaid for what he is worth, how Seattle is using him, and is taking too much of the cap up. I think for him, and fans with like views on RW, it would be really hard to see Seattle cut bait with Sherman, Earl, Kam, Bennett, KJ just to get younger on defense and hope Seattle finds more consistency on the offense with RW when they feel inconsistencies are a part of his game.

        This is where I would suggest grab chill pill and insert in mouth, and then swallow. If 83% of the offense is on the QB, that’s more chances for inconsistencies to happen. RW has played solidly by and large when matched with a dependable run game. He did it at Wisconsin when he lead CFB in passing efficiency, and he did it his first four years in Seattle.

        Can he be replaced? Sure, he can. But what happens when a dominant defense takes away that run game and the new qb is forced to play under duress? Wouldn’t it be nice if that qb had the skill set of RW?

    • peter

      I watched a lot of tape of Wilson back in his draft. A LOT. And thought he was the best QB of that draft. bar none. When I watched his Wisconsin tape with an old-fashioned offense I saw QB who was deadly accurate and the numbers bared themselves as such.

      The running around has been super fun to watch but Seattle could destroy teams with Wilson IF they stopped with the zbs, went man/power and frankly found a rb or two who could fight if not beat the like of Aaron Donald and set a tone.

      As per Wilson being overpaid, really?! he’s currently the 9th highest paid QB and after this offseason, I’d safely assume he moves to the 10-12 territory. 1-4 and 6 haven’t won anything of note and many of those haven’t won playoff games let alone some haven’t even been healthy.

      • C-Dog

        I wouldn’t mind if they changed it up to more power blocking, to be honest.

        RW thus far on the year has completed 61% of his passes for 3669 yards, 30 TDs to 11 INTs. He has always passed efficiently for over 60% completions, and his TD to INT rate has always been pretty solid, thus showing pretty good decisions, over all. Throw in his ability to scramble, and ability to work off script when needed, if that isn’t elite, I don’t know what is.

        I don’t want to discredit Hsu, Hawkblogger, the other guy, call them crazy, but I think I have been following football a wee bit longer than probably all those dudes, seen a lot. I haven’t seen much that compares at the position to RW. Tarkenton when I was a kid, Cunningham a bit, and Vick for a spell. That’s it. Personally, in terms of the scramblers, I think RW is the best. Now if you don’t like scrambling QBs, as Hsu, Hawkblogger,etc may not, that’s another matter.

        I think it’s a pretty wild suggestion, to say he least, and if it were to somehow happen, and Seattle struggles in the division against the Rams and 49ers for the next several seasons, and RW is playing playoff football annually as the savior in Cleveland, I guarantee I will finally join Twitter just to troll them about that on a weekly basis. That is one absolute certainty if that scenario plays out like that.

        “Hey, Davis, did you see what Russ did in Cleveland against the Steelers, 3 TDs, 270 yds in the air, and 60 on the ground? Go Hawks!”

        • peter

          I see guys that make me want to join twitter just to troll as well!

          It’s just hard with the TO’s because they seem to come in clusters. If those 11 int’s were spread out over all of the games….well first I think Seattle would be leading the division, and second, it wouldn’t “seem as bad.”

          I bring up the power run scheme because a. the rules are heading that way. And I believe that Wisconsin had something the tallest olinemen in the FBS and it didn’t seem to effect Wilson then.

          • C-Dog

            No Wilson had no problem at all with that Badger line. Might be was Seattle figured they didn’t need to go the Saints way or shorter OL for their short QB. Seattle does so much out of shotgun now, personally I’d love to see more of a mix of two back, RW was lethal his first few years selling the play action. Doesn’t have to be the whole offense, just have the ability to do that.

    • millhouse-serbia

      Hawkblogger didn’t jump on that bandwagon…he just thought that Davis has some inside info and write a tweet based on that…hawkblogger tweeted few weeks ago that our window is open as long as RW is our QB…

      • C-Dog

        He’s been pumping the breaks on it a wee bit, been clear that he is not suggesting that they do trade him, but has also been entertaining the notion as a broader discussion. I respect his tact in that. But, honestly, I sense the potential of a really strong knee jerk response to a very tough loss to swallow against the Rams that is leading to this notion of Seattle maybe choosing to part ways with their franchise QB because he is not as elite as Tom Brady, and maybe they get someone else in here to can game manage the team on a rookie deal. That’s the vibe I get from this, and it feels a bit defeatist, and misplaced.

        It’s pretty saying we don’t trust RW to guide the team with a young reliable RB and a younger defense, even though that is what Matt Ryan is doing that in Atlanta.

    • Leosharp

      Russell Wilson in a numerous amount of games this season has performed below expectations. He’s missed throws on every level and has looked below average when throwing deep at the start of games. Numerous times this year he was close to being picked, he bails out of clean pockets and misses open receivers much to regularly.

      He also manages to look like an MVP who literally is the offense. He has stretches of play where he’s making every throw, all the correct decisions, using his legs in key spots, avoids surefire sacks and makes huge plays.

      The same goes for every every other play on the offense except for maybe Baldwin and who has managed to consistently get open even when he hasn’t been targeted and McKissic who is never really gonna be a star player. This team shows inconsistent greatness at every position group on offense. Graham dominant in the redzone and nothing much everywhere else. Richardson looks like a star some moments then a back of the roster guy at others. Lockett has been injured, Darboh is a rookie, McEvoy has regressed, Willson and Vannett are up and down both blocking and receiving. RB injuries again. The oline has just been as expected. Nobody thought Joeckal was a good signing at the start of the year. Pocic didn’t look physically ready to start at the end of training camp and it has shown up in games numerous times. Ifedi is a first year RT, Odihambo is a unathletic backup, Britt is a good not great center and Brown is an aged veteran who missed training camp whi is also years removed from a pro bowl season.

      The talent on this offense hasn’t be maximized consistently. It seems each area has failed independently so I think it’s difficult to lay the blame all on Wilson. When Wilson is on it’s usually his unique skill set that elevates the team. When he’s bad it’s fundamental breakdowns that you simply don’t see in other elite players.

      Coaching is an issue but you can’t really pinpoint it as a Bevell/Cable issue because the offense was significantly more consistent in it’s positives and negatives last year while had many of the same problem and an impaired Wilson. The loss Rocky Seto and/or Sherman Smith maybe have been more significant than anyone anticipated.

    • Leosharp

      Davis Hsu does have a point but only because It’s still not Wilson’s offense. Russell Wilson isn’t a core part of the offensive scheme. The offense is geared to fit an elite RB and a game managing QB who doesn’t need to significantly influence the game. Unless the team is going to facilitate an offense that fits RW, something he can execute at an above average level consistently, then why are they paying him so much? For weeks the team stubbornly forced the running game, they finally declared it Wilson’s offense but what about it distinctly fits Wilson?

      Big Ben is a big downfield passer
      Brees has a highly rhythmic and timed passing game
      Rodgers utilizes the free play
      Newton is a dominant rusher
      Brady dominates between the numbers

      All these offense are geared around their QB
      Wilson can throw on the move, can play very well when up tempo, throws a catchable 50/50 ball and is very effective with the read option.
      None of these are the foundation of the Seahawks offense. For the last 2 years the Seahawks have felt like a run first offense that is only passing more because they have no other option, not because they want to make the offense fit the skill set of Wilson.

      The Seahawks have an offense that shouldn’t be heavily reliant on the QB which makes sense when you think about how a hobbled Wilson was able to play in 2016. However when you consider the components of a good running (good RB O-line and RBs) vs a good passing game (pass blocking O-line and WR) It’s clear one is easier to obtain and more likely to be consistently available than the other

      I don’t think they should trade Wilson. Similar to all the elite players on the Seahawks offense I don’t think his skillset is being effectively utilized. Same problem they had with Graham and Harvin they struggle to accentuate the abilities of their best players on offense like they have been able to do on defense.

  41. mac

    Part of the problem with the Browns strategy is that they always let their talent walk or trade them and than use a pick to draft a bad replacement haha It’s hilarious. You can have great draft positioning, a ton of picks in the perfect range and have tons of cap space …. but if you are constantly thinking you can get better talent than what you give for a pick, you can get butchered.

    I wish we still had Golden Tate. I love Doug Baldwin, he runs routes great, is great on the scramble drill and I’ve met him and got my hat autographed, he’s a really nice, respectable guy, not angry at all. I just wish we had a guy who can take advantage of screens and RAC. Maybe we will get Kasen WIlliams back after the season to help with the loss of Mcavoy or P rich. Hopefully Anthony Miller flys under the radar.

  42. BobbyK

    Some of you shouldn’t say with certainty we should keep this player or that player without understanding what is happening behind closed doors. There are answers we don’t know even if we think we do. That being said, here are some educated guesses as to what I’d like to see:

    Earl Thomas – He made the comment yesterday about they can fix this thing if everyone gets together but expressed doubt people would do it (something like going in their own areas). I absolutely want him back in 2018 if he’s a great leader and teammate (we don’t always know). If there are problems and he’s not part of the solution behind closed doors, then they most definitely need to try finding him a new home.

    Sheldon Richardson – He’s a fine player and in a contract year. He’s always been considered a guy with a less than stellar work ethic and/or character concerns. Great talent, but I don’t think you can pay guys big money deals like that. Can you trust him after he’s been paid? I don’t feel like you can.

    Richard Sherman – I love Sherm and he’s going to be great moving forward (and will make a Pro Bowl safety eventually, imo). However, his comments last year about veterans basically not listening to Pete anymore is/was/still is a huge concern. You simply cannot have players who undermine authority. If Sherm (and others do their own thing), you must cut ties. Unfortunately, Sherm is the type of guy who will leave and go to another team and be an All-Pro next year. He’ll have something to prove. He’ll be great on the field for the Seahawks next year, but will he be part of the solution of the fractured culture when he thinks he’s too good for “rah, rah” speeches from the head coach? You can’t have that.

    Frank Clark – He’s good, no doubt. He’s young, too. Is he one of the guys they could trade for draft capital? Granted, one of the picks would have to be used on what you were losing in him, but is he a core guy they want to build around? I don’t know and none of us do because the culture we don’t see behind closed doors is more important than people realize. This isn’t Madden when you just do this or that (and don’t have to worry about team chemistry and things of that nature). If they love Clark, I wouldn’t consider trading him. If there are questions, they you have to consider it.

    Some of the FAs like Paul Richardson, Jimmy Graham, etc. This team needs to get young. It will hurt, but they need to. Older teams have a habit of becoming more injury prone. It’s nature. They have to bite the bullet and get younger (and healthier).

    Duane Brown – If they are in rebuild mode (or will be soon), you do that with picks. Not old players. They just traded a #3 and then a #2 for Brown a few months ago, which means if they’re rebuilding there’s no reason they couldn’t get a second round pick back for him (and the 3rd rounder would be like a rental). Fant will be back and he’s a young. He’s not better, but it’s called a rebuild/reload for a reason. It’s what’s best for 2019 when they could be ready to legitimately rock again.

    There’s a saying that things are never as bad as they seem and never as good as they seem either. This team was missing Pro Bowlers like Kam, Sherman, KJ, Wagz (too hobbled), and Avril. That’s 5 Pro Bowlers. I don’t know of any team who could lose 5 of their best players on defense and be good, regardless of the “next man up” mentality.

    There are a lot of major things missing with this team (they want to run the ball, but can’t), but there is an unbelievable amount of little things that are crippling them, too. For example, we pretty much are guaranteed to lose the kicking game every week (punting/kicking). Our special teams are not special. They are a weakness. The penalties are killers, too. You can’t be who you want to be when you’re giving up free yards all of the time.

    With all the negativity… they have a franchise QB on offense and defense with Bobby Wagner. Two gigantic building blocks. No team in the NFL has better leaders (on field production) on each side of the ball the way the Hawks do. Like most teams, there are emerging good players, too. In some regards, they aren’t too far away in terms of talent. But behind the scenes and with the little things (always losing the special teams battles, losing the penalty battle almost every week, etc.), they seem so far away as well.

    • C-Dog

      If you are following Davis Hsu right now, he is suggesting perhaps keep all those guys, and deal away Russell Wilson to free up cap.

      I didn’t catch those Earl remarks. He might be the player to deal to get the most in return not named Russell or Bobby. It would be really hard watching him ball out for another team, but sadly, I can kind of see it happen.

      I thought Sherman turned it around this year and had been a model citizen. He was coaching up Griffin yesterday and has seemed invested. If they are going to make a serious push to get young, he seems like a likely candidate to get dealt. Not sure they get much for him, maybe a mid round pick, late day two pick if they are lucky. Who is going to give up much for a 30 yr old cornerback coming off an Achilles tear?

      Clark I think stays. Sheldon maybe, maybe not.

      Going to be a very interesting offseason.

      • lil'stink

        I think Hsu is basically saying the team is at a crossroads between building the team around Wilson, and building the team the way PC wants to do. He’s brought up a lot of valid points today and it’s worth looking at his Twitter feed if you haven’t already.

        You don’t just give away a franchise QB. But building around Wilson isn’t necessarily going to guarantee success. When Wilson is off he can be really bad. A dominant defense and running game has mitigated that fact until this year. So what’s the answer? There obviously has to be some changes, but is Paul Allen willing to part ways with PC? If so, who’s the heir? How much difference would new coordinators make if PC doesn’t change his philosophy? Or would having a running game that is at least average compared to how awful it was this year be enough of a difference?

        So many questions and what ifs. PCJS, as well as Paul Allen, definitely have their work cut out for them this offseason.

        • peter

          The thing is as I sound as I honk as hard as I have ever honked for a player in Seattle, the Seahawks have straight up NOT in any way shape or form “built around,” nor have they attempted to “build around,” Rusell Wilson.

          Trading a ton of picks for Percy Harvin, a weapon because you are enamored with him from your days at USC and you love jet sweeps isn’t building around Wilson. It’s being in love with the big play.

          Jimmy Graham. Great, let’s get Russel Wilson a Red zone target. Sounds good. Then let’s have a guy who is never an inline blocker do that. Oh, and for reasons, we can’t get explain in order to get Wilson we’ll trade away sort of a functional building block to a an effective pass/run game in in Unger and monkey around with the line for a whole bunch of years. Finally, I guess in a nod towards actually building around Wilson, but not really let’s trade multiple draft picks for a good but very aged Olinemen.

          I could keep going on about how teams that build around their QB do everything in their power to draft guys like Teron Armstead when they are available and not keep highly athletic though not productive D-linemen on the roster for no reason like Sokoli. Or how teams when wanting to build around their QB do things like keep the QB’s favorite WR (Kearse) or find them as many RB’s as it takes to mix up plays (Atlanta with their two-headed attack, New Orleans with their two-headed attack,)

          The crossroads really isn’t build around Wilson or build it the way PC wants. It’s that if you want to build it the way PC wants, but you have half a working clue how NFL works then you realize you have to pay a QB at some point and your defensive stars need to get paid and all of that will hamstring your process, and thus you should NEVER sign players to contract extensions.

          and always, always be looking at their replacements year to year. You can’t have a “young, hungry,” defense with guys in/at/or near their 30’s. This is an FO issue……if you truly want to be always compete then the way the contracts are structured is running diametrically opposed to that mantra.

          • C-Dog

            Is it possible that Tom Cable’s ideal profiles for OL to fit his scheme doesn’t fit what could really help RW?

            Is it possible that having taller WRs like Brees has had in NO might have helped RW in Seattle?

            Is it possible that staying in more I formation with a versatile FB like Mike Rob, or Coleman might have continued to lend well to RW’s strengths as a rollout passer?

            • peter

              I know you can’t just snap your fingers and make every WR 6’3″. but that’s an interesting point about brees. Brandon cooks was short but he was a special talent.

              the oline v. Wilson, chicken or the egg is the most puzzling. I see a lot of glass half full posters talking about adapting to be successful. the first thing I think seattle needs to adapt is more basic blocking schemes. there’s to many valleys of really promising games but when it doesn’t work it really, really fails.

              • C-Dog

                IMO, run game helps everything, QB, defense, everything.

            • Ground_Hawk

              I would like Seattle to go after a 240lbs+ FB this offseason, so that there is a bigger body in the backfield who can bust through these huge D-lines, block their rushes to Russ, and offer a quick-route option. After this last game it just feels like they need someone with this type of skill set, someone who punishes defenses. If Seattle were to use one of their 2018 5ths on Michigan FB Khalid Hill, 6′-2″ 265lbs., I think he might be a player who could bring that presence.

        • C-Dog

          I get what Hsu was saying, read though his takes, but I feel like he is stretching it a bit suggesting that RW isn’t premier to fit his case. Kind of lawyering it.

          When Wilson is off he can be really bad. When any QB is off he can be really bad. When A-Rod is off, when Brady is off, when Ryan is off, when Newton is off, when Carr is off, when Luck is off, etc. A dominant defense and run game mitigates that problem for any QB, not just Wilson. One could argue had Seattle not lost Avril, Sherman, and Chancellor to the IR, Seattle would have maintained a dominant defense this year.

          I just feel that there is genuine panic in the air from fans, understandably so after that gruesome loss, but successful franchises probably don’t panic. If the injury depleted Steelers get boat raced at home by a healthier division opponent, I don’t think the Rooneys suddenly looks to potentially trade Big Ben, fires Tomlin, etc. Just my hunch.

          Seattle needs a run game, and maybe a bit of a youth movement on defense to compete with the Rams moving forward. If the plan to do that is to trade the franchise QB, that plan better well work, but if you struggle to find quality at that position, it could set the franchise back years, possibly a decade or longer. See 1990s Seahawks football when they said goodbye to Dave Krieg.

    • Tien

      Great thoughtful post, Bobby! This offseason will definitely be interesting.

    • Trevor

      Awesome post Bobby! Great points and well thought out. I agree as fans and arm chair GMs the one thing we don’t have access to is what is going on behind closed doors. Unless you do then it is hard to really know what moves are best.

      My hope for this off season is simple. I want the Hawks to fix the OL once and for all whatever it takes. Then get younger on defense. If they do then I think they set themselves up nicely for another run in 2019-20.

  43. Greg Haugsven

    If you are only going to keep one of Avril, Bennett, or Sheldon which one you want? I just have a feeling it’s one of the three.

    • C-Dog

      Sheldon for me. He’s younger, more rare of a talent at DT.

    • peter

      have to go with Sheldon. Age. Age. Age. and this offseason, again the theme need to be age.

    • lil'stink

      Richardson, based on age. Bennett has been getting a lot of hate lately but he’s still effective. Avril really doesn’t factor in to the equation because of injury. He’s been such an under the radar stud I will be heartbroken to see him go.

    • Aaron

      Sheldon, but mostly because Avril and Bennett are both gonna retire along with Jan and possibly KJ.

      • Aaron


        • Greg Haugsven

          Richardson will cost big dollars though.

  44. millhouse-serbia

    Can anyone write important dates for next season? Until when we need to re sign our FA? When we can start to trade players?

    • millhouse-serbia

      I’ve found dates. We need to re sign our FA before we can trade players. It means that, for example, we need to re sign Mcdougald as ET replacement before we trade ET,. And what will hapen if, after re signing Bardley, we can not get enough draft capital for ET?

      • peter

        I get the burn everything down and start over sentiment but you can’t trade away Earl Thomas and here’s why:

        There are currently only two defensive players on the team where their impact is felt the exact second they are off the field. ET and Wagner. last season when ET was out teams repeatedly took deep shots down the field and it often worked. This year Wagner steps out…Fournette goes off.

        To trade ET, let’s say for a 2nd round pick, though I’d suspect it’d be much lower because ET’ current contract is up next year 2018. And no offense to this teams FO but I don’t see a lot of teams giving away draft capital for a one-year rental.

        Second you’re going to trade the best deep safety in the league to then have to draft their replacement. Mcdougald replaces Kam. Tedric Thompson on the team currently has never had the range ET has.

  45. Nathan W.

    Fieldgulls has been getting crazy. I think I’ll stay here where it’s safe

    • Sea Mode

      Yeah, I read that one earlier too. Interesting thoughts, but the idea that the rebuild is already underway just because of roster turnover does not hold IMO.

      PC/JS have always constantly churned the bottom half of the roster. But in no way is that a rebuild of the core players, which is what we are talking about here.

    • Mishima

      Gilbert has lost all credibility with me. Still not sure if he believes his own bullshit or if he’s just playing a roll over there.

  46. Trevor

    This might sound silly but the player the Hawks have never been able to replace off the 2013 team is Clinton McDonald and his 6 sacks + lots of pressures as a 3rd down interior pass rusher. Looking back not keeping him was one of JS worst decisions as a GM.

    He is still playing at a high level. He and Mebane were an ideal tandem in Petes defense. Mebane as a 1st and 2nd down run stuffer then rotate McDonald in on 3rd down to bring the heat.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m not sure about that. In 2014 Jordan Hill had 6 sacks working the same role. It’s 2015-17 where they’ve had the problem.

      • Trevor

        Rob, Hill was the answer for a 6 week stretch when he got all his sacks. What about the other 4 1/2 seasons. Since McDonald left who else has provided pressure from the DT spot?

        Even a guy they are considering giving $15 mil a year has not gotten anything close to that kind of production from the DT spot. I would take a combo of the 2013 Mebane / McDonald rotation over Richardson all day.

        • Rob Staton

          My point is — they had a guy the following year who emulated Clinton McDonald’s production. Yes, Hill’s production came towards the end of the 2014 season. In the last nine games of the 2013 season, McDonald had two sacks. For that reason, I have a hard time believing letting McDonald go was a bad decision. The problem is the guy brought in to replace him (Hill) fell off a cliff after that 2014 season. And in 2016/17 they haven’t been able to fill the hole. But we’re veering towards paralysis by analysis to start considering a decision not to re-sign Clinton McDonald as a major error.

      • GoHawks5151

        2014= Quinn
        2015-2017= Richard

        • Rob Staton

          2014 — Mebane on IR
          2016-17 — Earl, Sherman, Kam, Cliff on IR

          • C-Dog


    • Kenny Sloth

      R I C H A R D S O N

      • C-Dog


  47. Trevor

    I am all for a rebuild and getting younger on D but the more I think about it there are 4 players I don’t see going anywhere this offseason.

    Bennett- I can’t see there being much of a trade market for him and they only save $2.5 mil in cap space. My guess is they bring him back for one more year and he retires the following off season.

    Chancellor- He may retire but given the structure of his contract if he does not he will be back for sure I think and might me a great guy to mentor the young guys anyways.

    Sherman- unless someone is willing to give up a 2nd rounder my guess is Sherm comes back and plays well in 2018. If buys into the plan going forward I could even see him extended.

    KJ- still playing at a high level and I can’t see a big trade market for him. I would even consider a team friendly 2 year extension and bring in a young stud LB with an early pick to go with him and Wags.

    Avril and Lane – seems like a forgone conclusion the Hawks on and pickup the $12 mil in much needed cap space.

    Earl- if the Hawks want to pick up additional cap space. Then trading Earl to the Jags or Falcons for a 1st seems to make the most sense. It would be hard to do but the picks and $12 mil in space might be more valuable in rebuilding the defense.

    • Greg Haugsven

      I like Bennett as a 50-60 % snap guy next year, If Chancellor can play let him play SS and maybe his body lets him get through the season maybe just missing a few games here and there. I would guess Sherman plays out his deal next year and you never know, maybe they extend him? We have to get young somewhere so KJ’s spot seems like somewhere you can do that. Your right, it seems like Avril and Lane will be gone. I would like to extend Earl myself. He still has a lot of good years left. What do you see the 2019 roster looking like?

  48. millhouse-serbia

    Maybe they wont go anywhere(because of cap space problems), but if you want to be a real contender for title in 2019 then you need to use next season for developing young players. And you cant do that with those four players as starters. So they can stay and be a mentors with back up roles.

    • Trevor

      That would be easy with Bennett as you make him a rotational pass rusher where he would likely excel.

      Sherm would start opposite Griffin and they groom his replacement once identified.

      Kam is really health dependant.

      KJ if they don’t extend him then yes perhaps better to just cut bait and let a rookie LB get playing experience. I just think he will be harder to replace than most fans realize.

      • Hawk Eye

        agree with Bennett, Sherm and Kam, and also KJ. What they all have, along with Wagner is extremely high football IQ’s that allows them to play faster than their speed. If KJ would sign an extension that was team friendly, I would keep him. I can see his game lasting as long as he wants to play and is healthy. Just add a very fast LB to play with him and Bobby.

        I think the team needs to decide which one between Sherm and ET that they will keep past 2018. I don’t think that age and cap will allow them to keep both. If ET leaves, Sherm might be able to take over at FS, but not with the same range. Better hands and tackler though. I would imagine the team prefers to keep ET just because f the speed. But I think Kam and Sherm have higher football IQ’s than Earl

        • Greg Haugsven

          They could just draft a future KJ replacement and let him gets snaps at the SAM to get his feet wet before moving him to KJ’s spot in 2019.

        • Greg Haugsven

          ET all day.

  49. Hawk Eye

    something regarding the health of the players is that over the last 5 years the hawks have played an extra 12 games with the playoffs. Almost a whole extra season. That takes a toll and plays into older players getting hurt more often. A season with no playoffs where they don’t really have a good chance to go anywhere is not a bad thing if it helps them be healthier next year.

  50. Hawk Eye

    another possible Kam replacement on the roster already is Shead. Hawks have his rights for next year. He is big enough to play safety and was a safety. And I think he is a step slow for corner. I don’t think they can resign McDougall with Kam taking a lot of cap space, and they drafted Hill to play. These recent 3rd round pics have to get on the field and play. Hill, Darboh, Vannett, Rees, Jones all have to play and contribute in something more than a bit role. They were drafted to eventually replace someone and make an impact. That means letting someone go who is more expensive or getting older. If they can’t play, then there is a bigger problem. And if Malik can play next year, it would make a difference in who they have to resign and draft. Got my fingers crossed on that. I know a lot of people here don’t like him, but if he can play, I bet that changes quickly. He has had about the same impact as Nkemdiche in Az so far, but at a lower cost. Hawks not the only ones who take chances on high pics.

    • Greg Haugsven

      Good points Hawk Eye. Shead was a safety before moving to corner.

    • Sea Mode

      Could be, but I remember they asked PC about that last week, and he didn’t hesitate or offer any other option other than Shead at CB. Maybe down the road Sherm moves to SS and Shead steps in at CB as we groom a long-term replacement.

  51. Sea Mode

    Take your mind off the crisis for a few minutes… JustBombs put up DJ Moore highlights the other day. 🙂

    Best WR in the Big Ten || Maryland WR DJ Moore Career Highlights ᴴᴰ

    Gotta love the way he sets up defenders with bad angles, then runs through the arm tackles. At 5’11”, 215, he is another RB playing at WR.

    • Dylanlep

      would love to get this guy on our team

      • Dylanlep

        Just announced he declared too

  52. Greg Haugsven

    The more I think the more i think that Avril will play next year. Im guessing it could be Bennett and Avril both back and Richardson gone. Then both of those guys retiring after the 2018 season. I could be crazy but its just a feeling.

    • Hawk Eye

      i don’t think Avil comes back with his injury. But if he does he also makes Bennett more effective. Those guys have a bond on and off the field and play well together. And Avril is the only guy who can keep Bennett under control when he loses his cool. I think the foot injury and lose of Avril have affected Bennett’s play a lot

      • Sea Mode


        Was thinking about that yesterday. Avril goes out, Bennett’s game suffers. Kam goes out, Earl’s game suffers. These guys have been playing together for a long time.

        • Greg Haugsven

          We will see, I think I would rather have those two then Richardon, then let them retire or walk after 2018. Just a feeling.

          • Sea Mode

            Oh, no, I wasn’t trying to say that. Was just trying to underline how playing alongside each other these dynamic duos have benefitted. I think Avril is done for health concerns. Bennett just needs to play a more limited number of snaps to try and stay healthy and effective, because his contract isn’t cuttable anyway in 2018.

            Hopefully Dion Jordan can pitch in quite a bit across from Clark at the other DE spot. He has really stood out in the limited action he’s been able to get so far. Give Bennett 50%, including sliding inside on 3rd down, then Jordan and Moore take the rest of the snaps spelling both Bennett and, to a lesser degree, Clark.

            I would even be open to the idea of introducing “off weeks” where we rest some of our older or banged up players against lesser competition. That way, they are able to stay extra rested and hopefully healthy during the season, fresher for the playoffs, plus you get to give some of your young guys more snaps.

  53. DC

    As a fan of the Hawks since the earlyish 80’s I’ve gotta say that things can be a lot worse than this though the downward trend stings. Regardless of everything else, we have the best QB in the franchise’s history (by a country mile) on the team and he’s seemingly in his prime for years to come. That said, his behavior now is like that of a puppy that has been kicked all it’s life. When he’s not actually getting crushed he is flinching at shadows. I would love to see a healing journey begin where his OL becomes, dare I say, “good”. That would of course require some “hits” but hey, stranger things have happened.

    On the coaching front the only guy I’d really like to see replaced is Richard. Just doesn’t have “it” as dc.

    Teams with great QBs rise up again. It’s just a matter of how long will it take. Will the youth movement start asap or will we go one more season fingers crossed that we aren’t so snake bit by injuries?

  54. pran

    This loss pretty much seals the deal for Cable, Kris Richard & Brian S. Bevell is 50:50 just because of Russ. They need to build more Rhythm in to offense than letting Russ freelance doing circles waiting for magic to happen all the time.

  55. Sea Mode

    Wow, just got around to first look at Rashaan Evans. You guys were right on. Amazing.

    The other guy I thought looked like a stud is Virginia Tech LB Tremaine Edmunds. Dude is all over the field wreaking havoc. Loved it. Would he have any real reason not to declare this year?

    • Rob Staton

      Edmunds is fantastic. Just putting together a piece touching on him.

  56. Josh Smith

    Well, we may or may not make the playoffs this year (I’m still holding out hope) but either way it has been a great run these past 6 years and I think that we have a lot to look forward to in the future. I am really disappointment by the amount of people who want to blow everything up and dump core players for a little bit of cap room and some mid round picks. This team is not far off from championship contention. Draft picks are overrated, and the Duane Brown and Sheldon Richardson trades were the right move (although you wonder why we couldn’t have just signed someone like Whitworth in FA). Players with their talent get drafted in the top 15.

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