Interesting comments from John Schneider today, courtesy of an article by Ian Rapoport. Seattle’s GM indicates he and Pete Carroll have settled at two names for the #12 pick and that they’ll be ready if ‘their guy’ leaves the board before the team’s pick. Rapoport:
“We have to be prepared for other people to come to us,” Schneider told NFL.com. “Either we have to be strong and just sit there and take a really cool player or be able to negotiate in a fast manner with a team trying to get up and just decided whether — say they give you two picks — if those two players base would be worth the guy we’d be giving up.”
Schneider said he is set on two players who will be “very attractive” for his team at 12. He feels like he’ll have a chance to draft at least one, though he wouldn’t offer an identity. What he doesn’t know is if a team will leap ahead of him and nab his guy. He’s ready if that happens, though.
This is the most revealing piece of information we’ve seen so far, if accurate. Schneider admitted yesterday that the misinformation between teams started two weeks ago. However, considering there’s no direct names mentioned here, it’s hard to see how this could be constituted as misleading. The Seahawks may well have settled on two guys at #12 and both players could have a pretty good chance of being on the board when the team picks. When you’re picking that early, you don’t necessarily need a list of ten names. Especially if you have a history of thinking outside of he box.
So who are the two?
Many would speculate on the usual suspects you’ll see littered around the national mock drafts. I still firmly believe it could come down to the two names we’ve stuck with all along – Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram. In that order.
Meanwhile… two members of the SDB community emailed me mock drafts recently and I wanted to get them on the blog before Thursday. Thanks to Clayton Russell and Craig Rosenstein for taking the time to put these together. You can see both projections after the fold.
Clayton Russell
1. Indianapolis Colts – Andrew Luck
The need is a QB and Leader and he has shown he has the smarts to build around.
2. Washington Redskins – Robbert Griffin the III
The Redskins, need a face for the organization and have been lacking leadership for sometime.
3. Minnesota Vikings – Matt Kalil
The Vikings could go a variety of directions with this pick but drafting a WR or CB is too high for those spots.
4. Cleveland Browns – Trent Richardson
The Browns want Colt or another QB to grow, this helps, especially with no proven back on the roster.
5. Tampa Bay Bucs – Morris Claiborne
The Bucs may have liked Trent R, but Claiborne provides the coverage skills needed in Tampa.
6. St. Louis Rams – Justin Blackmon
The Rams need WR threats to open the running game and Blackmon is their best option
7. Jacksonville Jaguars – Melvin Ingram
While I personally think they should draft a WR (Floyd) to help open up the game for Gabbert, Jags go D.
8. Miami Dolphins – Ryan Tannehill
Can the Dolphins front office screw up any further, probably but here is their QB of the future.
9. Carolina Panthers – Quinton Coples
Carolina, cannot see past the fact he is from NC, so they add DE help instead of providing better WR or CB.
10. Buffalo Bills – Luke Kuechly
The Bills add a future leader and tackling machine, can he prevent them from another meltdown?
11. Kansas City Chiefs – Michael Brockers
I could also say DeCastro but I think they pull the switch on the D front.
12. Seattle Seahawks – Courtney Upshaw
Lots of value at LB, Seahawks could trade down and add another 2nd rounder and 3rd next year.
13. Arizona Cardinals – Riley Reiff
Cardinals would like to stop Kolb from getting season ending concussions so they go OL.
14. Dallas Cowboys – Mark Barron
Cowboys want to avoid getting burnt late in games while adding some coverage skills to the secondary.
15. Philadelphia Eagles – Lavonte David
Eagles had problems with their LB corps, they reach a little here but add good prospect.
16. NY Jets – Dontari Poe
Jets want more D for Rex and company and they like what Poe has to offer.
17. Cincinnati Bengals – Dre Kirkpatrick
Bengals looking to shore up secondary that let games get away from them late.
18. San Diego Chargers – Dont’a Hightower
Chargers start rebuilding a D that has taken hits the last few years, Hightower is the key to retooling.
19. Chicago Bears – David Decastro
Bears might want to look hard at Michael Floyd but would like to establish their OL.
20. Tennessee Titans – Michael Floyd
Brings in a legit WR target for Hasselbeck or Locker for years to come, could go Stephon Gilmore.
21. Cincinnati Bengals – Lamar Miller
Bengals looking at going another direction, bring in speedster to take over for Benson.
22. Cleveland Browns – Brandon Weeden
Holmgren wants another QB, Weeden offers them options and this is a QB driven league so they grab him.
23. Detroit Lions – Stephon Gilmore
They have concerns at RB, but they have bigger needs stopping opposing WR’s.
24. Pittsburgh Steelers – Ta’amu Alemeda
OL also could use some help but Pitt has always thrived with run stoppers and Alemeda fits their system.
25. Denver Broncos – Coby Fleener
May go defense here but we know Peyton loves options and Fleener may offer many good years.
26. Houston Texans – Kendall Wright
Offers another WR option for Schaub or Yates. May also look D to replace Williams.
27. New England Pats – Fletcher Cox
Nice spot to land this talent, helps improve defense.
28. Green Bay Packers – Shea McClelin
May provide the pass rush option the Pack needs to once again free C. Matthews, RB other option.
29. Baltimore Ravens – Devon Still
Still adds bulk upfront and can contribute to getting to the QB, a must in Baltimore.
30. SF 49’ers – Stephen Hill
They don’t have great WR’s so they see if they can get one in the draft.
31. New England Pats – Nick Perry
Another Defensive player that can contribute right away.
32. NY Giants – Vinny Curry
Another pass rusher in NY, or they might look at RB or OL.
Seahawks round out:
43. Whitney Mercilus DE
75. Robert Turbin RB
106. Vontaze Burfict ILB
181. Kirk Cousins QB
225. Antonio Allen SS
Craig Rosentein
1. IND – Andrew Luck QB – No explanation needed.
2. WAS (from STL) – Robert Griffin III QB – No explanation needed.
3. MIN – Matt Kalil OT – Despite recent rumors that they’re trying to trade the pick, they come to their senses and go with the third best prospect in the draft.
4. CLE – Trent Richardson RB – This franchise needs an offensive playmaker if they want to start putting up points. Richardson is the draft’s elite offensive playmaker.
5. TB – Morris Claiborne DB – A great corner that will solidify their secondary.
6. STL (from WAS) – Justin Blackmon WR – Try as they might, Tannehill’s rawness will not allow them to extort another team for the second time in the draft. Stuck at
6, they can’t justify passing on Blackmon (even though the media has severely inflated his stock) if they want Bradford to improve.
7. JAX – Quinton Coples DE – Coples possesses the potential to be an elite pass rusher. JAX needs to find impact players if it wants to get back on track.
8. MIA – Ryan Tannehill QB – They could reach for a QB in the second, but the fact that Coples has already left the board convinces them to go with the remaining QB with the highest ceiling.
9. *AZI (from CAR) – Riley Reiff OT – The Cardinals move up to grab a solid addition to their offensive line.
10. BUF – Michael Floyd WR – Robbed of Reiff, they still get a great receiver to improve Fitzpatricks’ offensive weapons (and any argument for them not cutting him after this year).
11. KC – Luke Kuechly LB – His position could push him later into the draft, but Kansas City is the team that can prevent this from happening.
12. **DAL (from SEA) – Dontari Poe DT – Rob Ryan gets a new toy to play with, as he believes he can maximize Poe’s elite potential.
13. CAR (from AZI) – Fletcher Cox DT – A great defensive line prospect that can immediately help their terrible defensive line.
14. SEA (from DAL) – Courtney Upshaw OLB/DE – Exactly what the Seahawks are looking for: someone that can provide a great pass rush opposite of Chris Clemons, but that also won’t be a liability in run defense.
15. PHI – Mark Barron DB – A great playmaker that will give them the best secondary in their pass-first divison (especially with Washington’s addition of RGIII).
16. NYJ – Melvin Ingram OLB/DE – A solid pass rusher that Rex Ryan will be able to use in a lot of different looks.
17. CIN (from OAK) – Kendall Wright WR – A stellar receiver that can stretch the field, him, Green, and Gresham will give Dalton plenty of options.
18. TEN (from SD) – Michael Brockers DT – Great value at this point, the Titans pounce and opt to go defensive line over offensive line.
19. CHI – David DeCastro OG – With Knox at risk of starting the season on the PUP (and maybe even miss the season), they would have loved to get Kendall Wright here to pair with Marshall . However, they still get great value and vastly improve their offensive line.
20. SD (from TEN) – Dre Kirkpatrick DB – Character issues aside, he’s a very solid playmaker that they can convert to safety to fit a hole while minimizing his weaknesses in coverage.
21. CIN – Stephen Gilmore DB – A great cornerback, the Bengals take care of a huge need.
22. CLE – Brandon Weeden QB – Realizing that they won’t win games or sell tickets with Colt McCoy at quarterback, they take their second offensive player of the draft. They will probably also add a receiver in rounds two or three.
23. DET – Jonathan Martin OT – Jeff Backus is getting old and with Stafford’s injury history, they need to make protecting him a priority. Right tackle Gosder Cherilus is also in a contract year and a below average player anyways.
24. PIT – Cordy Glenn OT – They need to protect Ben Roethlisberger better and get a versatile offensive lineman in Glenn.
25. DEN – Doug Martin RB – The consensus second best runningback in the draft, him and McGahee will provide a solid one-two punch at the position. Improving the run game and adding Peyton Manning will drastically improve the Bronco’s offense in terms of both passing and rushing.
26. SEA (from HOU) – Don’t’a Hightower LB – The Seahawks move up to take their second Alabama linebacker of the draft and continue to bolster their defensive identity.
27. NE – Whitney Mercilus DE – By improving their pass rush, the Patriots can cover up the glaring holes in their secondary that were exposed last season.
28. GB – Vinny Curry DE – Another pass rusher will allow for the Packers to maximize the effectiveness of Clay Matthews and, like the Patriots, cover up their less than stellar pass defense from last year.
29. BAL – Stephen Hill WR – They grab another exciting, young receiver as Anquan Boldin has lost a step and is on the decline.
30. SF – Kevin Zeitler OG – Good value, an underrated guard that can help improve their line.
31. NE – Chandler Jones DE – See pick 31. They double up on defensive end in order to try and maximize the success of their pass rush.
32. NYG – Coby Fleener TE – They should be extremely thankful if Fleener lasts this long. It fills a huge need as Ballard may miss all of next season. They should trade up, although I don’t think that they will.
*CAR trades picks 9 and 180 to AZI for picks 13, 80, and 151: AZI gets their talented and much needed tackle by jumping BUF. CAR moves down to a range where they are still likely to get a top defensive line prospect.
**SEA trades picks 12 and 106 to DAL for picks 14 and 81: DAL, salivating over Poe’s elite potential, fears that the Panthers will take him and make a relatively small leap to secure their top ranked DT. SEA views this as a very small risk maneuver considering CAR’s more glaring defensive needs and still gets their man.
***SD trades pick 18 to TEN for picks 20, 115, and 227: TEN can’t believe that Brockers is still available and snatches him up before he can make his way to CHI. SD doesn’t see any prospects that they’re dying for and happily accepts the extra draft picks.
****HOU trades pick 26 to SEA for picks 43, 75 and their 2013 4th rounder: SEA’s small move earlier in the first gives them the leeway to make a move to combine Alabama’s explosive LBs. They still possess picks in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th to grab an RB and some more defensive depth. In an extremely deep WR draft class, Houston still gets two promising WRs to play behind Andre Johnson by selecting Rueben Randle and Alshon Jeffery with picks 43 and 58, while adding picks in the process.
The two players are, I would venture to guess, Coples and Mercilus.
I have no idea what the Seahawks think of Mercilus. Coples could be on the list, but then I’ve heard mixed things there which lead me to believe he won’t be the pick.
When do you think we will be able to find out who these two players are? I’m really intrigued
I really Liked the 2nd mock draft on this page, mainly for the trade down then up move, which would be clever and really awesome if it was executed in the real draft. I liked Cousins in the first mock even more. However, I don’t think Kirk Cousins would be available at 181. 75th, maybe, but 181 seems a little late for him.
On draft day Drew.
My top guesses about the identity of the dynamic duo:
1. Upshaw and Coples
2. Floyd and Blackmon
3. Glenn and DeCastro
Though I don’t know that my guesses will hold up to any scrutiny.
As for the two mock drafts in this post, I can’t imagine us taking Upshaw and Hightower. I could see us take one of the two, but not both. How would they fit in our defense?
After watching yesterday’s press conference and reading this interview there is no doubt in my mind the Seahawks are moving down. Could Perry or McClellin be targets later in the 1st round?
They told us yesterday, it will be the two “fastest” edge rushers. Who are they?
Joel – If they move down, I think McClellin could be an interesting one to monitor. Not so much Perry.
Seahawk Steve – I don’t think it’s as simple as that.
I suspect that Ryan Tannehill is the “their guy” that is referenced. Then pass rushers as a composite player as they appear to me to be of equal value for different reasons Coples/Ingram/Upshaw if the trade back(s) offered aren’t good enough.
But as with everyone, I’m just speculating, because it’s fun as Hell as we get down to the wire. I also suspect we will see trading and jocking like never before because of the new collective bargaining agreement. Get ready cuz, you might need a seatbelt for that barstool on Thursday. It’s gonna be pretty wild and so cool!!
Richard – As far as I’m aware, Tannehill is not the guy. Was told quite firmly there’s never been an intention to draft a quarterback in the first two rounds this year. The message? ‘Look to next year…’
For those of you who are interested and respect his opinion, Chad Reuter has posted a 7 round mock draft on nfl.com. His picks were:
1 (12) Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
2 (43) Bobby Wagner, LB, Utah State
3 (75) Orson Charles, TE, Georgia
4 (106) George Iloka, S, Boise State
6 (181) Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College
7 (225) Chandler Harnish, QB, Northern Illinois
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8288dc3b/article/sevenround-mock-projecting-every-pick-in-2012-nfl-draft
Funny how he predicted Orson Charles when I asked Rob about him in the 3rd round yesterday. Perhaps the pro’s really do look to the Joes for inspiration…
Iloka has Seahawk written all over him. Can back up three positions (FS, SS, OLB).
That would be a pretty good draft.
But we can’t come out of this draft without a starting caliber RB.
That is probably our biggest need this year.
I believe that the Big Two are likely to be players far superior to other players at their position. They might really like a guy, but if they can find someone comparable 10 slots lower, he would not be the target at #12. Upshaw and Ingram have McClellin as a lower comparable pick. Coples, Cox and Jones are comparable. Mercilus, Perry, Branch and Curry are comparable. Kuechly is far superior to any comparable Mike 4/3 LB. Barron is far superior to any other safety. DeCastro also has no comparison 10 picks lower, but the Seahawks simply don’t need him. Therefore, the Big Two are Kuechly and Barron, because you cannot find anyone similar 10 slots lower. Even the round two options at Mike and Safety are dramatically inferior to Kuechly and Barron. Speed Leos can be found around pick #20, so none of them would be in the Big Two. OLB/Elephant alternates are also likely to be there in round two. Several WRs are valued late round one or early round two, so it is not Floyd. At Mike and Safety, you are next looking at middle-round inferior talent. Kuechly or Barron or trade down.
Rob, sometimes it is that simple, althiough to state it that simplly is not very intriguing. I’ll add a little for the intigue. Perry has the fastest 40 and split combined. Mercilus is second, Upshaw is third. Taking either of the first two at 12 is a bit of a reach. so ideally it would be better to trade down and take one. It would be nice to see a trade down and pick up some additional picks, but who knows. We were hoping that would happen last year and the trade down prospects dried up so we took Carp. anyway whom we wanted to take a little later. I guess you could we got caught “short”. It was not a normal draft year anyway with the CBA.
Seems like this year we are prepared for any senario. I am expecting some intrigue with a trade down that might involve getting one of the three above and perhaps Fleener. Trade down partners could be: Dallas, Philly, New England or ______.
My personal favorite for the 12th pick to the Hawks is Coples, but I don’t think they will take my advice unless he falls to 12 and the trade prospects dry up again this year. Anyway it’ will be fun and intriguing although we may not all agree.
With all due respect James, there is absolutely no way possible that the top 2 are Barron and Kuechly. They aren’t moving Kam or Earl, and a Kuechly pick at 12 reeks of a needy pick, not a good value pick. I like Kuechly, but he’s not a pass rusher and he’s far from a game changer at MLB.
MLB is not a need if we draft someone to play SLB, like Ingram or Upshaw.
K.J. Wright would be playing MLB for us.
I really like Upshaw, but I dont see PC JS drafting him. Pete said the #1 attribute he wants in a pass rusher is speed, and Upshaw is lacking in this category. I would prefer to see Seattle trade back a little to Jets, or Cowboys, and select Nick Perry. He is very fast, and a dominating player, most undervalued player in 1st round mocks imo.
I would love to see them pickup a 3rd, or 2nd rounder in the trade, and trade seahawks current 2nd round for a 1st round in 2013 to any team interested. This is going trade value.
This would give us ammo going forward to move up to get top qb if Flynn doesnt pan out, or pull a Belichek, and trade an extra 1st every year for a bit more the next year.
Brazilianhawk – A running back will be taken early.
James – That’s a slightly skewed way of looking at things. They won’t make the pick based on the difference in quality between first and second tier. For example, if they want a pass rusher – they need to take one in the first because there’s going to be a huge rush in round one, wiping out most of the group. They can’t risk a guy like Vinny Curry being there in round two. There will be, however, guards and linebackers they can draft later on with starter potential. So you have to keep that in mind. People are only talking about Barron due to ‘that’ rumor. There are enough LB’s to not need to go in that direction at #12. This is all about the pass rush. Seattle needs to kick off the rush on DE’s, not be the ones sweating over it.
Rob, The inference to Tannehill is because of the Pauline quote “giddy as a school girl”. It just sounded too much like Pete to be totally dismissed.
I do truly feel that the 1st move on Thursday will set off a series of moves in the 1st round that may/will determine the Seahawks plans as 2-3-4 maybe even 6 trades ahead of them may completely change the landscape for how they use #12. It has been speculated that picks #3-10 could be in play so, it may be out of their hands. I, now, don’t believe that they would make an attempt at a move up because JS would win out on that one. But I do believe that Pete would have alittle bit of trouble sitting back and letting it happen ahead of him without getting somewhat nervous.
Derian Johnston – Others have made this point, but it’s not like Upshaw ran a 5.0 forty. He ran a 4.7. Not elite, not exactly abysmal either given he’s added too much muscle and would play at around 265lbs rather than the 275-280lbs he was at the Alabama pro-day. That is speed. That is pass rush. And when I watch the tape, I don’t think there’s a marked, obvious speed advantage for Perry. He may well run quicker in a straight line, but on tape? Don’t see it.
To add more intrigue to the Perry selection – I heard an interview Perry had with Gil Brandt – where it was clear to me that Perry has a promise to go higher in the first round.
I also agree that K.J. is going to play MLB this year.
One thing we gotta remember about Petey… he coached in LOS ANGELES for a decade. One of the biggest media outlets in America, I doubt he has any trouble fooling most shmucks into to believing what he wants them to think.
Another thing to remember about Petey… his guys at USC are not necessarily not his guys in the NFL. See: Taylor Mays, who a lot of people had pinned to Seattle in R1.
Perry never had the hype, but on tape I love both Upshaw, and Perry. Perry always identifies the ball carrier, is big, fast, and I think the most athletic potential of all. He is more versatile on tape, dropping back into coverage at times. Upshaw is more 1 dimensional, not good in space, but I think he will be very successful in the right scheme (used in same role as alabama used him). It is crazy how much ratings change from seeing same tape, and prospects coming up and down several rounds at times, with no change but hype. It gives good value to certain prospects, including both Upshaw(dropping) and Perry. Bad value to Poe, Tannehill, and many others that have moved up dramatically with little to show on tape.
Mercilus looks lost all the time. On tape he seems lucky nearly everytime he gets a sack, as if the guy runs into him. He is very bad at identifying the ball carrier, and cant come off his blocks very well at all. I dont think he is worth a 1st round pick, the only reason he is rated high is his sack #’s. Very one dimensional player.
Cox or Coples.
Derian – I disagree strongly that Upshaw isn’t good in space or is one dimensional. Several teams – if you catch my drift – really like Upshaw’s ability in space as a key highlight. And if he provides pass rush + great run defense, and the ability to play more than one position, he’s not one dimensional.
I also think Pead will turn out to be the second best running back out of this draft. Would love the Hawks to take him.
James, you really need to go back and watch some Kuechly game film with an open mind. You seem to think he has no holes in his game. He is a good prospect but far from perfect. I’ve watched about 200 snaps with him on D in the past two years and this is what I saw. First off, he plays a devalued position on a bad team in a bad conference. If he were an elite enough MLB to justify #12 I would hope that he would have done more to make the players around him better rather than padding his stats. I dodn’t know if that was his intention but that’s what happens when you run around or bounce backwards off of blocks. He makes a ton of tackles but most of them are 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. It probably would have better for the team if he stepped up in the hole more often, even if it meant he took on the block and someone else closer to the line was free to attempt making the tackles. His aversion to blockers also led to many of his tackles being the drag down while they fall forward variety.
Now, what happens when those are no longer ACC blockers and RB’s but much stronger and faster NFL players?
I’m not trying to be overly hard on the kid, he does have very good instincts, zone coverage ability and leadership. He also doesn’t miss many tackles. When he gets his hands on someone they are going down sooner or later. He is a potentially great nickle linebacker but will need to be protected from blockers untill he learns to stack and shed.
To take a non pass rush linebacker that high he needs to be a complete, dominant, Willis type of player. Otherwise, good but not sure fire great LB’s can be found at better value later in the draft.
I think there is going to be some very surprised fan’s come draft day. A trade down in the first is coming, you can bank on it….
My guess is Cox and Ingram. If I got a third option, it would be Upshaw.
In a perfect world, I think the Seahawks would like to get more pressure from their base defense without having to rely on a LB exerting the pressure. So, that’s why I’m looking for a pass rushing interior lineman, like Cox. (What scares me is Frank Gore catching 6 balls in the playoffs vs. the Giants and 7 vs. the Saints. I was surprised that the SF offense went from being a conservative run-first offense to something that looked pretty impressive once they went back to using Gore as a receiver (remember he caught 61 passes a few years ago and was SF’s leading receiver). He only caught 17 balls during the 2011 regular season. So, whoever plays LB for the Seahawks better be comfortable in coverage — they are not going to get much help from the safety with Vernon Davis on the field at the same time as Gore.) I choose Ingram over Upshaw because, IMO, he offers comparable pass rushing ability and the consensus seems to be that he is a better cover guy.
Rob, my first impression after reading your post was that those “two players” played the same position. Upshaw and Ingram or Cox and Coples made sense. After re-reading the post, I’m not sure why I jumped to that conclusion. Do you think that is the likely scenario or might it be a two guys at completely different positions?
Phil – At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don’t think we should be concentrating on coverage with Upshaw/Ingram. It won’t be a major factor for either, or a decision maker at #12.
Leonard – I fully expect it to be two pass rushers. I’m almost certain of that.
Also something I dug out from our best source from 2010:
“PC was never going to be blinded by USC products like some suspected. Just the opposite, he knows all their flaws and limitations.” – This is what he said post 2010 draft when many were surprised he passed on Taylor Mays. Worth remembering, given he’s only drafted two USC guys since – McCoy in the 6th and Smith in the 7th.
My guess or prediction is that Floyd or Upshaw are the two players JS is referring to. But it must be a situation where PC/JS have guaranteed themselves that one of their two players will be there at 12…even if the world ends. I don’t think that rules out a trade up or a trade down…remember they’re not drafting for “need” this year(this statement could be bluff who knows)…more like BPA. Maybe they have brainwashed themselves into thinking they have a top 20 offense…but i think they need a lot on that side of the ball…not so much on defense as far as needs go…greed though is another virtue to consider. PC is Machiavellian in his nature…compete forever. So maybe he gluttons his defense in the name of Bevell/Cable’s offense(good defense is the best offense?). Ownership and accountability on the offensive side of the ball stops at the offensive coordinator, PC seems to have a firewall there in both thought and execution…ie…he is not too involved on that side of the ball…the Whitehurst deal was probably more of a Jeremy Bates thing…and the real reason he was fired.
trade back with NE(both 1s) for Chandler Jones and Lavonte David. Thoughts?
No way Pats do that one. It’s all about quantity with those guys!
Ryan, That would be a solid deal.
As the draft gets closer I really am liking Chandler Jones, long arms, frame to add 15 or so pounds, and I think he can get coached up to be the power rusher from the other side to compliment Clemons speed rush from the other side. The knocks on him some what remind of some of the questions that came with Brian Orakpo. With the right Coaching I think Jones can be very good.
Lavonte David, is the perfect fit on the weak side of Carroll and Bradley’s LB group, can cover like a safety, but still can play tough against the run.
These guys would be two solid additions to the defense.
Rob, the podcast linked on fieldgulls.com yesterday included extremely high praise of Lavonte David as a 1st round talent. Do you think Seattle would jump to draft him if he is there at pick 43? Moreover, what grade do you give to David?
Adam – It’s very easy to blame a departed coaching member for a bad trade. The fact is, John Schneider liked Whitehurst. He spoke about that. I would also say that it’s a shoe-in Seattle will go defense in R1.
Tom T – I think David is a R2/3 guy. Nice athleticism but not a guy I feel like I have to have. I don’t think he’s a first round level talent. Would I consider him at #43? Sure, but there’s others I’d have ahead of him on my list.
IMO Perry is one of the two… He will come in and replace Red on 3rd downs and then later replace Clemons next year since he will be a thirty-something DE looking for a big payday.
He is the most explosive of the edge rushers. He was a big time recruit coming out of Detroit. He has proven it on the field including getting 8-9 sacks as a freshman. You can not find any major negatives about him. He does lack the motor like Coples, is not too short height-wise and arm-wise like Ingram and he is not a tweener like Upshaw. To me Upshaw does not fit the typical LEO position (e.g. Clemons, Mcginnist, Haley) and I do not see the Hawks changing their D for him. Plus nobody is talking about him.
My personal pick is Perry.
Not Seahawks related, but a question about Justin Blackmon…
It seems like almost everyone thinks the guy is a lock to go to St. Louis at #6. I just don’t really see it. Since I am a simple football fan and don’t have any delusions regarding my eye for talent, could someone please tell me which of his skills is elite enough to warrant a top 10 pick in a year that is supposedly “very deep” at WR? I am honestly asking because I do not know. I do know that it isn’t size, and his speed while good is not eye-popping. His hands look really good, but that can’t be all… Is he an incredible route runner? Is he ridiculously strong so as to never get jammed up at the line? I know his production was off the charts, but so was Michael Crabtree’s. I am actually surprised that no one seems to be making that comparison, because that’s who I thought of when I first saw the guy play. Both look to me like very good players in a pass happy offense in a conference where defense is not overly emphasized.
Can anyone help me out here?
Excuse me *** He does NOT lack the motor like Coples.
Perry struggles to turn the corner, plays too high, and does not maximize on his athleticism. He’s got some upside, but he also looks very unnatural to me. Not really the type to stick his nose in traffic and be physical. Holds back. I don’t like him that early at all. Ray Edwards clone.
Michael – I think there is a good chunk of football minds who have the same outlook on Blackmon as you do. When you take a look at his body of work, it’s tough not to be impressed. Heck, I remember seeing him 2 years ago, thinking dang this kid can play ball. But I think many people have just sort of assumed that he’s this big receiver that can go up and attack passes like the elite in the NFL, but that just simply isn’t true. For a college receiver he runs quality routes and is able to consistently get separation from defenders whether he’s being pressed, bracketed or finding space in a zone. He uses his athletic ability to his advantage against college defenders and has quality experience running slant routes when everyone in the entire stadium knows he’s getting the football, a skill that is necessary if you want to be a good NFL wideout. But all of these things don’t scream instant success in the NFL and the concerns you outlined are pretty much spot on. I wouldn’t take him in the top-10 and maybe not even in the 1st altogether. His production isn’t fluky, but it isn’t transcendent either. That’s my take at least.
I have to believe Upshaw is one of the two guys JS was referring to. He offers pass-rush and doesn’t lose an inch when it comes to run support. And speaking about the ‘Bama defender, this criticism about him being “unexplosive” absolutely drives me nuts. First of all, too many people use ‘explosive’ synonymously with burst or acceleration, whereas I have always seen “explosion” to represent an athletes ability to exert his power and strength in a way that is both agile and quick.
With that said, just about every “football move” Courtney makes exhibits “explosion.” Whether it’s taking on a blocker or making a tackles, Upshaw has an uncanny ability to make powerful and sudden movements all while maintaining incredible balance. Go back to Kip’s description his pass-rush, how he almost stops before reaching the tackle only to suddenly turn on the jets and lay a ferocious hit into an opponents body in order to push him back. How someone could interpret this as “unexplosive” just because he isn’t running to the outside shoulder of a blocker is ridiculous.
Whelp I’m predicting the two are Ingram and Upshaw in that order. I’d prefer Upshaw because I’ve fallen in love with his all around game, but I believe for the role they have in mind they’re probably dreaming of a guy to just send after the QB from all over the place and that is Ingram. I think they probably also view Ingram as a better long term solution at Leo.
What are your thoughts on Chandler Jones? Would he play the same role as Upshaw? If he is anything like his brother Jon, man that would make me have to think about taking him.
Michael – I have some sympathy with your opinion. I think Blackmon last year goes in the 15-25 range. Yet such is production, even in the OKST offense. He’ll not get by the top eight and could very realistically go at #6. I guess if he performs any kind of production similar to a Roddy White type (not a horrible comparison) then it’s worth it. He runs crisp routes and has such incredible body control and balance that he could have a quick impact. His speed is fine, not great just fine. He’ll have one bonehead play a game. He’ll also make big plays and break off YAC every now and again.
Derek – Important to remember his other brother is in the NFL and fell a bit after some positive publicity before his draft. Jones would be more of a prototype end, but for Seattle he’d probably have a role similar to Aldon Smith in SF. I think he’s too much of a late riser for Seattle, and too much ‘potential’ rather than ‘proven’.
I’ve always really liked Upshaw as a prospect in general for the past few seasons, now even more for the Hawks.
I didn’t start out high on Ingram, but I am really starting to like him – his speed and athleticism just pops off the screen. Very unique guy, a bit of a Freeney/Tuck blend in terms of size/speed/playing style.
I just can’t see them passing on either of these two for Kuechly or an olineman.
In fact, with Philly adding Demeco Ryans, that really hurt Kuechly and if KC passes on him I have him falling to Pitt.
I think Derek was referring to the UFC fighter Jon “Bones” Jones, not Arthur Jones. I want Coples at 12 but I have a feeling that he wont be the pick. I think Upshae is a good football player, but I see him as a linebacker and not a defensie end, I just dont see any pass rush ability out of him on tape. I think the two players are Melvin Ingram (who I think will be a bust) and Fletcher Cox. I think they also would target Chandler Jones if they traded back.
The two I would guess are Whitney and Ingram…..
Both have a lot of speed. Both can edge rush very well. They both provide high pressure and can really fly and get after the QB. Both are big enough and size worthy. Both had a great combine. Both have huge potential and “big play” ability.
Whitney could be seen as a wildcard, so my 3rd guy would be Luke Kuechly to slide in there. (Coples could be in that mix also, but I hope not)
I’m completely sold on Shea McClellin as well, I’d be totally cool with the Hawks taking him after a trade down.
I think at 12 it’s
1. Ingram
2. Upshaw
If they move down into the late teens and those two are gone:
1. McClellin
2. Hightower
3. Curry
Rob-i just think that Bates was the scapegoat for the Whitehurst move. I’m a little concerned about leadership on that side of the ball, i think Cable was a great hire to sort of give their offense some identity in the form of a coach, but i have my doubts about Carroll’s involvement there. This team looks like the Jets and the Patriots of his prior (pro)coaching endeavors…solid to good defenses…average to poor offenses. Good for a wild card win and that’s about it.
McClellin’s concussion history alone puts me off.
Taylor – I know, I just wanted to put into context that while his brother is an incredible athlete who has reached the peak of his sport, one of his other brothers hasn’t really done anything in the NFL. We can’t project Chandler on Arther or Jon, though. I don’t see how anyone can say you don’t see any pass rush ability from Upshaw on tape. It’s what he does.
Hawkfin – Ingram would have to be behind one other player not named Whitney to be on the list.
adam – that’s a legitimate concern. And after this year’s draft when they take a pass rusher, they must start investing in a big way on the offensive skill positions. Starting with a QB unless Flynn pans out.
The two guys mentioned might be real, might be fake. JS might be attempting to give credence to the “leaked” article about Barron and Hightower in order to entice a trade. I think it’s clear he has some trade-back options in place though from his comment about being ready. If he trades back, I have no idea what the target could be…
But if he’s serious about having narrowed it down to two guys, I tend to believe they are indeed Hightower and Barron. He probably expects Barron to be there (unless the Cowboys trade up), with Hightower the one who might not be. I think the league is higher on Hightower than the media is. I always got the feeling JS reacted a little to defensively to the Barron/Kam at LB rumor. He didn’t lie either, since featuring the “big nickel” doesn’t require Kam to play LB. Who cares if you call Barron a starter or a backup – he’d play more snaps than Red Bryant who IS a starter.
Flynn is the QBotF – so we won’t be looking to replace him this year. I have no idea why people are so quick to find our “QBotF”? Give Flynn a chance to play first. I’m not expecting Flynn to just “pan out”, I’m expecting him to become a very good starting QB – he will not be a complete failure either way. He’s in a similar boat to Hasselbeck, except he has actual game experience. He’s been on the field in games that count and played extremely well. If (BIG IF) Flynn plays poorly in 2012, then maybe you think about bringing in a QB in 2013 – but Hass was terrible in year 1, so was Brees in SD. I think even in that scenario, Flynn gets to keep his job and see if he improves in year 2 in the system. Because he probably gets 2 years to put up or shut up, I don’t see any point in drafting a QB in 2012.
Keep focused on pass rushers. Because you can put your house the two guys are both pass rushers. The big question is ‘who’?
Shams,
How does McClellin’s concussion history put you off? Who amongst the ranks of College and Pro, doesn’t have a history of concussions? The research points to the vast amount of concussions coming from practice, wherein they are neither seen nor reported, starting as far down as pop warner…..
Contemplating Rob’s response to Adam, I think he is correct that offensive skill positions will be the focus next off season. I believe they are giving the QBs, WRs, and RBs this year to prove themselves (or continue to prove themselves). If PC/JS find that, for instance, the WR group is not providing all the dimensions required to execute the playbook they will bring in WR talent that can provide that dimension.
We have a lot of potential at WR, but still need to see that potential actualize into production. Sidney Rice needs to play more, BMW needs to return to 2010 form, Golden Tate needs to continue playing like he did the second half of 2011, Butler needs to get scrappy and show he belongs here, Lockette needs to broaden his skill set, Obomanu needs to take advantage of every snap and show he can adequately sub when required, and Doug needs to keep putting the WIN in Baldwin.
I think QB is the most likely target next year. I think we will go after a QB if we win less than 8 games or more than 10 games. What? Consider: if we win less than 8 games then I suspect Flynn and Jackson haven’t proved themselves and we look for a QB. If we win more than 10 games then not only has Flynn or Jackson proved themselves, but so has the rest of the team. In that scenario we don’t have gaping holes to fill and we target a QB, one that either provides continuity (if injury or contract problems appear) or later allows a handsome trade.
Think about Pete Carroll and John Schneider’s origins. Think about it like that old comic book you read as a kid, the one that said Origin!!! on the cover and described how the hero got his powers and why he fights crime. If we had a comic book about Pete and John’s origins it would show Pete being injected with the Bill Walsh Super Serum, or Schneider swinging on a grappling hook and cracking puns next to Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf. Think about that far away planet we would like to live on, where elite quarterbacks like Montana and Favre give way to elite quarterbacks like Young and Rodgers.
That transition from elite QB to elite QB is the ultimate expression of the systems where Pete and John learned their craft. We all hope that Flynn or Jackson are the first elite QB in that formula. Unfortunately, even though Mr. Allen would happily spend the Six Million Dollars, as John Schneider’s says “you can’t manufacture that guy”.