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HEADLINES
– Tavon Austin runs an official 4.34, the same as Ryan Swope
– Cordarrelle Patterson runs an official 4.41 but didn’t look comfortable, dropping passes and running awkward routes
– DeAndre Hopkins only managed a 4.57 but is the most impressive during drills
– Robert Woods had a 4.51 but like Hopkins really impressed during the work out
Quarterback unofficial forty yard dash times (first group):
Tyler Bray (QB, Tennessee) – 5.00 & 5.07
Colby Cameron (QB, Louisiana Tech) – 4.83 & 4.66
Mike Glennon (QB, NC State) – 5.00 & 5.00
MarQueis Gray (QB, Minnesota) – 4.69 & 4.72
Landry Jones (QB, Oklahoma) – 5.03 & 5.03
Colin Klein (QB, Kansas State) – 4.81 & 4.78
Biggest surprise from the first group? Landry Jones running a sharp 1.69 ten yard split. Quick, move him to defensive end.
Next up it’s the first group of wide receivers, including Tavon Austin, Steadman Bailey, DeAndre Hopkins and Justin Hunter.
Keenan Allen is not working out today. Marshall’s Aaron Dobson also didn’t run the forty.
Wide receiver unofficial forty yard dash times (first group):
Tavon Austin (WR, West Virginia) – 4.25 & 4.31
Steadman Bailey (WR, West Virginia) – 4.57 & 4.50
Alan Bonner (WR, Jacksonville State) – 4.50 & 4.47
Josh Boyce (WR, TCU) – 4.38 & 4.38
Marcus Davis (WR, Virginia Tech) – 4.40 & 4.53
Corey Fuller (WR, Virginia Tech) – 4.38 & 4.37
Marquise Goodwin (WR, Texas) – 4.25 & 4.29
Cobi Hamilton (WR, Arkansas) – 4.47 & 4.59
Chris Harper (WR, Kansas State) – 4.57 & 4.46
Mark Harrison (WR, Rutgers) – 4.47 & 4.47
DeAndre Hopkins (WR, Clemson) – 4.50 & 4.50
Justin Hunter (WR, Tennessee) – 4.44 & 4.41
Brandon Kaufman (WR, Eastern Washington) – 4.53 & 4.59
Tavarres King (WR, Georgia) – 4.43 & 4.44
That’s an incredible (albeit unofficial) forty performance from Tavon Austin. That will do his stock the power of good. Anyone hoping he can be a DeSean Jackson type with a little Percy Harvin can feel a little more satisfied today.
Perhaps it’s time to start contemplating how early Austin could go in the draft?
Bucky Brooks admitted on the NFL Network that adding 0.08 to the unofficial times is usually a good indication of the official number. EVen still, a written-in-stone 4.33 or 4.35 would be excellent news for Austin.
Texas’ Marquise Goodwin also ran a 4.25 with a 1.49 ten-yard split. His second attempt was an unofficial 4.29. He looked completely relaxed.
Rutgers’ Mark Harrison ran two 4.47’s at 231lbs. Impressive.
DeAndre Hopkins managed two 4.50’s which was about expected. Steadman Bailey’s two times of 4.57 and 4.50 were a little surprising. He plays faster than that.
Justin Hunter ran an unofficial 4.41 but he weighs less than 200lbs at 6-4.
That concludes the first group of forty yard dash times. The quarterbacks and receivers will now go through passing/catching drills. That’ll be followed by the running backs running the forty yard dash, and then the second group of quarterbacks and receivers.
First sighting of Pete Carroll and John Schneider watching today’s drills together:
As the quarterback and receiver drills got underway, Tyler Bray looked a lot heavier than college. Almost like a different player compared to his time in Tennessee.
Tavon Austin is carrying on the momentum of his forty yard dash, showing sharp hands in the toe-tap drill.
Mike Glennon floated his deep ball a on the downfield drill. It was ugly. He threw back-to-back awful passes that forced the receiver to stop and wait for the football. That’s not good given he’s in shorts with no pass rush.
Bray looked excellent as expected, but he has a terrific arm. DeAndre Hopkins did well to chase down one of Bray’s throws and make a difficult catch. Steadman Bailey followed suite moments later making an equally impressive full-stretch grab.
Seattle’s offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell was down on the field for receiver drills:
I don’t really like the gauntlet drill, but Austin and Bailey both showed really nice hands.
Hopkins looked really sharp. In all the tape I’ve watched on the three, Austin, Bailey and Hopkins barely had any drops.
While the drills are going on, there’s a lot of positive Twitter chatter about Matt Barkley.
Text I received from a scout this morning: Matt Barkley will not get past the Arizona #Cardinals at No. 7 overall.
— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) February 24, 2013
Of course, there’s no way of knowing how qualified this unnamed scout it. Matt Miller is the guy who last year declared Russell Wilson to be one of the worst picks in the entire draft. I think he’s employed by professional Google Search Spoiler B******r R****t. Even so, it was only a matter of time until Barkley’s stock started to trend upwards again. I had him going to the Cardinals in my most recent mock draft. I’ve had him at #1 to Kansas City too. He’ll be a top ten pick. There’s also this:
And I would be very surprised if #azcardinals took Barkley at 7. — Kent Somers (@kentsomers) February 24, 2013
However, Somers isn’t quoting any sources here. That might just be his opinion due to all the media-bashing of Barkley. That wouldn’t surprise me. I remember the utter defiance of the Detroit Lions’ beat writers in 2009. They consistently talked down the chances of Matt Stafford being the #1 pick.
The receivers are now running routes. Hopkins continues to impress in a big way. He looks bigger in shorts than he does on the field. We’re seeing smooth cuts and breaks, plus sharp hands. He might not be running as fast as Austin right now, but Hopkins has been among the most impressive players today so far.
Greg Cosell is sitting in on the broadcast with Matt Smith and Bucky Brooks. He’s also talking like Michelle from the film ‘American Pie’. “This one time… at Band Camp…”
The second group of quarterbacks and receivers are preparing for their drills. Among those competing — Geno Smith, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Cordarrelle Patterson, Quinton Patton, Ryan Swope, Terrance Williams and Robert Woods.
Austin is having a really sharp work-out here. He looks muscular, strong and smooth. Steadman Bailey just ran a pretty awkward out-route, although it was also a poor throw by the quarterback.
Mike Glennon has had an inconsistent day. Some bad throws earlier, now he’s on the money. Today is pretty similar to what you see on tape.
If you missed it yesterday, it’s not good news for Dion Jordan. He’s going to compete tomorrow but will then require surgery. He’s expected to miss 3-4 months.
Some other breaking news today, prospective free agent defensive tackle Desmond Bryant of the Raiders was arrested in Miami for ‘criminal mischief’. Not good news for anyone hoping he’d land in Seattle.
Louisiana Tech quarterback Colby Cameron did a good job today, running a 4.6 and throwing well too, particularly on the post-corner route. He could be a later round option if the Seahawks want to take a quarterback.
DeAndre Hopkins just made a stunning catch on a deep ball from MarQueis Gray. Real fingertips stuff. Crazy catch.
Pete Carroll and John Schneider are still watching closely. Along with the Harbaugh’s…
Mike Mayock says some scouts had Marquise Goodwin down for a 4.19 forty time. It’ll be interesting to see the official electronic times. Mayock wasn’t impressed by Goodwin running routes, citing he struggled to track the ball and get his head turned properly.
Cordarrelle Patterson managed a 37-inch vertical jump at 6-2. Mayock says physically he’s a top ten pick but he’s unsure a lack of production will get him there.
Interesting Tweet:
Bucky Brooks: #Seahawks had Anquan Boldin with a top 15 grade. Dropped him to 2nd round when he ran a 4.72 in the Combine.
— Matt Erickson (@SeattleDoorMatt) February 24, 2013
Quarterback unofficial forty yard dash times (second group):
E.J. Manuel (QB, Florida State) – 4.62 & 4.63
Ryan Nassib (QB, Syracuse) – 4.84 & 5.06
Matt Scott (QB, Arizona) – 4.66 & 4.69
Geno Smith (QB, West Virginia) – 4.56 & 4.60
Tyler Wilson (QB, Arkansas) – 4.96 & 4.94
Great times for E.J. Manuel (nearly 240lbs) and Geno Smith. I’d say Smith in particular looked much smoother than expected. Matt Scott also ran an impressive 4.66. Not quite the positive news for Tyler Wilson who looked slow and strained and only just avoided hitting the 5-second mark. Ryan Nassib also underwhelmed with a 4.84 or 5.06. Not good.
Wide receiver unofficial forty yard dash times (second group):
Aaron Mellette (WR, Elon) – 4.47 & 4.47
Cordarrelle Patterson (WR, Tennessee) – 4.37 & 4.40
Quinton Patton (WR, Louisiana Tech) – 4.46 & 4.50
Denard Robinson (WR, Michigan) – 4.34 & 4.45
Da’Rick Rogers (WR, Tennessee Tech) – 4.56 & 4.44
Lanear Sampson (WR, Baylor) – 4.43 & 4.44
Ace Sanders (WR, South Carolina) – 4.53 & 4.59
Kenny Stills (WR, Oklahoma) – 4.34 & 4.28
Ryan Swope (WR, Texas A&M) – 4.44 & 4.38
Conner Vernon (WR, Duke) – 4.59 & 4.47
Markus Wheaton (WR, Oregon State) – 4.34 & 4.40
Terrance Williams (WR, Baylor) – 4.46 & 4.59
Marquess Wilson (WR, Washington State) – 4.41 & 4.47
Robert Woods (WR, USC) – 4.44 & 4.44
I’m not sure if there was an issue with the timer, but there were some crazy differentials between the first and second attempts and that shouldn’t happen. Da’Rick Rogers and Conner Vernon improved their times by 0.12 seconds on the second run. Terrance Williams on the other hand ran a second attempt 0.13 seconds slower than the first go-around. No idea what was going on there and we’ll have to wait for the official times later today.
Cordarrelle Patterson confirmed his speed at 6-2 and +200lbs. It’ll be interesting to see him run routes later.
Denard Robinson was quick but why isn’t he being worked out as a running back? He basically played QB/RB at Michigan and he’s the same size as Chris Johnson. Ryan Swope, Kenny Stills and Markus Wheaton all ran quick times that’ll help their stock. Marquess Wilson also put in a good show. Robert Woods was also quick enough to give his stock a boost. He’s good enough to be a first round pick.
Quinton Patton and Woods looked good in the toe-tap drills, making a sharp cut and get both feet down with minimal effort. Cordarrelle Patterson looks a bit awkward, just as he does on tape. He just ran a deep route that looked painfully difficult. It doesn’t help that he’s wearing baggy T-shirt/shorts for the drill.
Geno Smith, like Mike Glennon, is floating the deep ball too much.
Ryan Swope doesn’t look like a wide receiver. He looks like he should be working in Blockbuster’s. I’d still take a chance on him being a productive unnatural type via the middle rounds. Markus Wheaton showed great catching technique in the gauntlet. Ace Sanders struggled and took a ball in the face for good measure. I want to see Cordarrelle Patterson extend his arms to catch the ball. Everything is into the body. He’s all speed an upside, the technique leaves a lot to be desired.
Official 40 times are now in for the receivers:
Marquise Goodwin – 4.27
Tavon Austin – 4.34
Steadman Bailey – 4.52
Josh Boyce – 4.38
Justin Hunter – 4.44
DeAndre Hopkins – 4.57
Mark Harrison – 4.46
Chris Harper – 4.55
Cordarrelle Patterson – 4.42
Quinton Patton – 4.53
Da’Rick Rogers – 4.52
Denard Robinson – 4.43
Terrance Williams – 4.52
Markus Wheaton – 4.45
Conner Vernon – 4.68
Ryan Swope – 4.34
Kenny Stills – 4.38
Marquess Wilson – 4.51
Robert Woods – 4.51
I suppose the big headline is Ryan Swope is officially as quick as Tavon Austin. So pick your poison. Austin in round one, or Swope later.
The receivers are now running 10-yard routes. Robert Woods continues to look like the most impressive player out there — he’s showing the same crispness as Hopkins and equally strong hands. And just as I said that… Woods drops a back-shoulder pass.
Justin Hunter had a vertical jump of 39.5-inches. He had a poor 2012 season but has impressed athletically in Indianapolis. It’s still hard to get behind him given how sloppy he looked for Tennessee. Former NFL Scout:
If you were watching Patterson work out you would never believe he is the best WR in the Draft. Saw WOW on tape, here I am not seeing that. — Bryan Broaddus (@BryanBroaddus) February 24, 2013
I thought Patterson hurt himself today. He might still be a top-15 pick based on upside, straight line speed and the ability to score any time the ball’s in his hands. However, you’re going to have to coach him up in a big way. Otherwise he’ll wing it, which is pretty much what he did at Tennessee. And winging it in the NFL will kill a quarterback.
The final group to work out today will be the running backs.
Running back unofficial forty yard dash times (first group):
Montee Ball (RB, Wisconsin) – 4.62 & 4.65
Kenjon Barner (RB, Oregon) – 4.44 & 4.46
Le’Veon Bell (RB, Michigan State) – 4.52 & 4.56
Giovani Bernard (RB, North Carolina) – 4.50 & 4.50
Rex Burkhead (RB, Nebraska) – 4.69 & 4.75
Knile Davis (RB, Arkansas) – 4.30 & 4.31
Andre Ellington (RB, Clemson) – 4.59 & DNP
Jonathan Franklin (RB, UCLA) – 4.47 & 4.50
Mike Gillislee (RB, Florida) – 4.50 & 4.50
Ray Graham (RB, Pittsburgh) – 4.72 & 4.71
Jawan Jamison (RB, Rutgers) – 4.62 & 4.50
Onterio McCalebb (RB, Auburn) – 4.27 & 4.21
Joseph Randle (RB, Oklahoma State) – 4.63 & 4.63
Theo Riddick (RB, Notre Dame) – 4.66 & DNP
Zac Stacy (RB, Vanderbilt) – 4.50 & 4.60
Stepfan Taylor (RB, Stanford) – 4.78 & 4.72
Cierre Wood – 4.50 & 4.53
The average time for a running back over the last few years has been 4.59.
Watching the running backs this year was pretty underwhelming. It lacked the star power we’ve seen in recent years. There’s a few players here that’ll be productive at the next level, but unless Eddie Lacy makes it into the first round were unlikely to see any of the group go early.
Ontario McCalebb’s 4.21 is slightly undermined by his sub-170lbs size. LeVeon Bell’s times were impressive given his size. Knile Davis ran two 4.3’s and he was always a fast guy, but he had a bad 2012 season with fumble problems. He really had one good year in college. Andre Ellington appeared to get injured during his forty yard attempt. Montee Ball’s 4.6’s are good enough — he will be a productive player at the next level. I’d take a chance in the middle rounds.
Official 40 yard dash times for the running backs:
Montee Ball – 4.66
Kenjon Barner – 4.52
LeVeon Bell – 4.60
Giovani Bernard – 4.53
Rex Burkhead – 4.73
Knile Davis – 4.37
Andre Ellington – 4.61
Jonathan Franklin – 4.49
Mike Gillislee – 4.55
Ray Graham – 4.80
Jawan Jamison – 4.68
Onterio McCalebb – 4.34
Joseph Randle – 4.63
Theo Riddick – 4.68
Zac Stacy – 4.55
Stepfan Taylor – 4.76
Kerwynn Williams – 4.48
Cierre Wood – 4.56
Matt Flynn update
Peter King just said on the NFL Network that he thinks Seattle will release Matt Flynn. He didn’t believe they would pay his salary to keep him and would choose to save some back by releasing him. King didn’t expect much of a trade market.
I believe the team would make a $1.25m overall saving if they cut Flynn. It doesn’t sound much, but paying $7.25m for a backup is unnecessary. Personally, if they do cut Flynn I’d consider drafting a quarterback and letting him compete with a veteran to be the backup.
And we have to remember here, paying the starter peanuts and the backup $7.25m is an odd dynamic. That could play a part in any decision.
End of the day
Things are starting to wind down in Indianapolis and the NFL Network isn’t even showing live coverage of the running back drills, they’re speaking to Scott Pioli. We’ll call it a day for today, but remember we’ll be live blogging again from 6am PST tomorrow. Hope to see you there for the all-important defensive lineman and linebacker drills.
Yes I’m up at 4am. Hawaii.
Good to have you on board, Zach.
Yep, thanks.
Rob, who are you most looking forward to today?
Any of the receivers really, but particularly Austin, Bailey, Hopkins, Patterson, Woods, Wheaton.
Lol, 4.25
It’s feasible we take a RB too right?
Possible but not early.
Austin might have just jumped into the first round. I knew he was quick but didn’t expect 4.25 speed.
Slow first attempt from Bailey at 4.57 particularly if it is the unofficial time
Ya I was hoping to see Bailey in the 4.4s
From the tape thats kind of what I expected to be fair second attempt he improved
Yeah underwhelming time. Might help him stick around into round three where he’ll be one of the steal’s of the draft.
Rob thanks for live bloggin I am at work and extermely bored and now I can look foward to a morning of refreashing this web site…. not that I don’t do that every morning any ways.
Good morning Nolan, good to have you on board.
Steadman Bailey tanked hard. I just don’t get it he looked faster on tape.
Sometimes it happens. He’s smooth enough on tape to survive this though, plus is production is insane. Whoever drafts Geno Smith should make sure they get Bailey too.
1st Geno
2nd Austin
3rd Bailey
KC Chiefs
Haha… Championship.
He, as with all those who put up sub-par numbers, still has a chance to improve times at his respective pro day.
Well we know Goodwin can take the top off a defense but can he catch or run good routes?
He’s definitely someone we need to go back and look at tape of.
Living in Dallas, and being married to a Longhorn, I’ve watched a good amount of Marquise Goodwin over the last couple years. Dude is fast. Laughably fast. I was actually a little disappointed that he didn’t go lower than 4.25. I know he has it in him. Come October, I would put money on him being THE FASTEST player in the NFL in pads.
The thing with Goodwin is he’s a track guy that plays football. Early on in his football career you could tell he was doing a lot of “on the job training”. Learning the game as he played. What’s impressive about Marquise, is that he has made big improvements every year. He’s smart, well spoken and a good kid.
He was really hurt by terrible QB play this year. But if you watch tape of him this season you’ll see a guy that is learning how to exploit his speed. He still makes some mistakes, but he is working to improve. I’d say he’s further along than Golden Tate was. Watch the Oregon State game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nq9emo0hWs
He destroys defenders with hitch moves. He uses his speed to set the defender up over the course of a game to the point where the defender is giving him a 10-yard cushion. Later in games he is often open for quick outs since the defender is so afraid of getting burned. In that Oregon game he scores on a reverse. When he turns the corner, he throws it into “olympics speed” and boom! gone.
Honestly, if given the choice of Austin in the late first or early second, or Goodwin in the late 3rd, I’d take Goodwin. “They” always say you can’t teach speed. I’d roll the dice that you can work with Goodwin continue to improve his receiving skills. He’ll be a weapon in the NFL.
Austin just helped his status in a big way, didn’t he? Do you think Hunter hurt his?
I don’t think Hunter hurt himself but you’d like to see him +200lbs.
Hopkins is what I thought he would be, Bailey underwhelmed, Austin impressed but I don’t think we want a Percy Harvin type diva on our team.
Just because his on-field comparison is Harvin, doesn’t mean he’s an off-field diva as well. The kid is dedicated to his craft, I don’t see any off field issues with him. Disappointing, that 40 time probably just put him out of reach for Hawks in the first.
Austin isn’t a Diva… Please don’t label guys without some proof…
All of these guys have Egos and big confidence, otherwise they wouldn’t make it…
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Chip Kelly take Smith at #4 if he was available. You know Chip is looking for his golden boy.
if he makes it that far… Despite all the love the tackles have gotten recently, I still think KC goes with a QB #1 overall and Smith wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Exciting to see Tavon Austin run that time, but I really can’t too stoked about another smallish receiver…
And as exciting as that speed is, I still maintain his production will need to be manufactured.
Rob, does this change your opinion on taking a linebacker over a reciever in the first?
I would honestly have Tavon, cordarelle, or Hopkins over kaseem Greene.
Rob, the announcers today (all of which have way more experience than us here), raved about Austin and his versatility. They ONLY said he would be best with a team that uses him ‘creatively’.
They mentioned McCluster like you have, but mentioned how Austin’s speed and skill set are way beyond McCluster’s…
I still think, despite size, he would make our team electric! I want him in round 1, especially after seeing the depth at WR, and how we can get a big and FAST guy like FS’s Rodney Smith later on…
Still baffled and annoyed how you keep saying he will need ‘manufactured production’, and others fear adding another ‘short’ WR. We want winners that can be dynamic and score! He does that! PERIOD.
Who cares HOW…
Nice Live blog too Rob!
Good for the announcers. I’m not going to just regurgitate their opinions on here as my own. I believe Austin’s production will have to be manufactured. It’s there on tape. Why else are they sending Bailey on endless downfield deep routes but not Austin? He’s the one taking jet sweeps and running out of the backfield. He is best in front of the defense, playing in space and running at guys. Not running conventional routes. So whenever you have to install plays into your playbook to get a specific player the ball, that’s manufactured production.
After watching some Tavon Austin tape, I cannot fathom this guy being a 1st round pick. At all.
He is a dynamic kick/punt returner, but what does he offer as a receiver? Next to nothing. He runs the occasional deep route, and goes out of the backfield 90% of the time. The Jet Sweep was his best friend along with being left uncovered in the flats.
Another thing I noticed is he is really not that fast given how many steps he takes. Alot of movement for little ground. I can’t buy into him being a 1st round pick. When Rob talks about “manufactured production” I totally see what he is getting at. It’s gimmicky and relies on a defense being undisciplined and prone to the same mistakes over and over again.
Would I take him in round 3? Sure. But how he is talked about as a 1st round pick baffles me.
In the same way that Bruce Irvin did? They seem to be prospects that have the same kind of criticisms.
No one questioned if Bruce Irvin could rush the passer. The question was if he could be an everydown player. We’ve seen that he can rush just fine, and the everydown part we’ll find out.
With Tavon, I don’t you can do the things he did at West Virginia in the NFL. You can’t run that cute little jet sweep everytime and catch everyone off guard. You can’t run him in the flats everytime and expect no one to cover him. Everyone talks about “how great he is in space”, well how about when he is covered? How much can he offer as a receiver? I think he’s a 3rd round talent personally. He wasn’t asked to line up and run a ton of downfield routes; he ran alot of designed drags with the other guys clearing out, as well as the sweeps and runs out of the backfield.
Terron Armstead’s official 40 time was 4.71. Wow.
A certain Walter Jones also ran a 4.71 at the combine. Cool stat for the day delievered 🙂
Austin looks good in the gauntlet drill.
He has good hands and catches without his body… Russell Wilson was “too short” last year, look how that paid off!
Why are they replaying the QBs?
Wow Hopkins looks good in these drills, such a good hands catcher
Why am I not seeing the next drills? It’s just replaying the 40 times.
Really? I am watching it on the nfl.com website which might be the difference
I don’t really like the gauntlet drill but Kaufman looked fluid in it, definitely does not use his body to catch based off that drill.
Kaufman posted good times. Interested to see how he does in the drills.
He is looking really smooth in the gauntlet drill. I like how he uses his hands.
He could be a nice late round grab!
Interesting tweet from Peter King
RT @nfldraftscout: Text I received from a scout this morning: Matt Barkley will not get past the Arizona #Cardinals at No. 7 overall.
Matt Barkley with Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd could get them turned around in a heartbeat.
still gotta fix that O-line, or Barkely is gonna struggle
It’s a real chicken or egg situation for the Cardinals.
Ya, they obviously need to address both this off-season. I think if Smith or Barkley is there you take ’em and see what you can do to protect him later in the draft. If they are gone, I would go Tackle (assuming one of Joeckel, Fischer, or Johnson are there) and hope to get one of the other QB’s in R2. Those are the tipping points for me.
Honestly, I think Arizona stays at #7. Drafts one of the big three tackles, and then gets their version of the read option pocket passer quarterback in E.J. Manuel with their second rounder.
I’m glad Bailey had an underwhelming 40 time. I hope Wheaton runs poorly too. I really want one of those two in the second round.
Too bad Wheaton is a beast!
lol, Goodwin was just under thrown.
Rob, I was surprised at how short Cooper’s arms are. You mentioned earlier that he may have the potential to kick outside in the NFL, à la Branden Albert.
Do his measurables make you re-think that possibility at all, or is his plus athleticism enough to compensate?
Absolutely. Height and arm length ends that possibility for me. He could move to center though, but not tackle.
Deandre Hopkins continues to “Wow” me. In my opinion, the most underrated prospect. Outstanding hands, solid route running, work ethic… grabbing him at 25 would be a steal, I think.
He’s had an incredible day.
Greg Cosell is sitting in on the broadcast with Matt Smith and Bucky Brooks. He’s also talking like Michelle from the film ‘American Pie’. “This one time… at Band Camp…”
LMAO. I just about died reading that!!!! I find humor in it since I’m not a huge fan of Greg Cosell….
Also interesting to hear about the Anquan Boldin situation back in ’03. I guess it’s a lesson not to get too caught up in combine figures.
Right there with you Chris A, Hopkins is looking more like a stud WR every day.
I was surprised and figure some up Hopkins catches is that he has 10.08 inch hands. He’s the number 1 receiver in my opinion and with the DTs starting to disappear slowly, I can see us drafting him.
What were the expectations for Geno Smith’s 40? I think 4.6 is pretty darn good, and at the very least he is just as fast as Donovan McNabb was coming out.
I expected 4.7.
well then, good for him.
Denard Robinson looks like a black Captain Planet.
Swope is going to be a solid yac guy. Has a thick core. Gonna be able to take hits and keep moving. Has good speed due and a fluid stride. I like him a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8JCIL8U9yz0
He body catches way too much, and his quickness isn’t good enough to make him a Welker type slot guy. I think he would be a great 4th receiver for us, but after that 40 time it doesn’t seem likely that he will last long enough to justify taking a second stringer. (This team should be looking for a nickel corner or d-lineman in the third round, not a fourth or fifth wideout.)
Rob- Who might be this year’s Kris Durham; big WR, some athleticism, but for some reason or another will likely be available on Day 3?
I ask b/c this is the kind of player I’d like to see the Hawks target to possibly develop behind Sydney. Thanks for all the hard work Rob!
Keep an eye on Mellette at Elon. Josh Boyce at TCU too.
Just read up on Mellette; definitely sign me up for RD4… if he’s still there!
How about the Florida State guy, Rodney Smith? Big hands too…
Not seen much of him on tape.
Rob! This draft is the deepest in late round reciever talent! Would you mind doubling up? Or even in a rare scenario tripling up?
I would happily double up. One early, one later.
Honestly. I hated the Durham pick. They overdrafted him after one year of mediocre production and an injury history
Both Rodney Smith and Mark Harrison are the real size/speed freaks at the WR position, up there with Hunter. I’m looking at those 2 as late round possibilities.
Anyone else concerned the track is just running faster this year? There are about twice as many sub 4.5 WRs as last year. I know it’s a good class but that seems a little flukey.
One of the reasons they keep using the same venue is to avoid ‘quicker’ years. I think it’s just a fast group overall.
a lot of those 4.3’s are gonna turn into 4.4’s in the “official times”.
Ah ok. I woke up late, forgot they were still unofficial on the NFL site. That makes sense.
Yeah it is ridiculous that they have digital timers, yet as Bucky Brooks pointed out earlier in the show, they don’t use JUST the digital timers, they mix in some hand held times to “make it feel more natural”…which to me is BS… He said they do that because they only used to have hand held timing, and the NFL doesn’t like change much…. LAME
Austin and Goodwin post a 4.25… but then Austin’s is adjusted to 4.34?? Goodwin’s 4.27??
Seems weird to me…
Yeah, seems idiotic. I hate how they can superimpose two guys and have them basically over-lapping, yet because some guys click their watches wrong some guy gets .05 or more of a second added to their time compared to the other guy. There’s no good reason for it.
Kenny Stills and Terrance Williams looked legit to me.
Problem with Williams will always be catching technique. He’s a body catcher.
What about this stills kid? Haven’t heard much about him but he has speed and natural hands.
Williams had one of the smallest pair of hands out of the WR group. That and his penchant to body catch should be a red flag for NFL GM’s.
Ryan Swope ran as fast as Tavon Austin. Hmm.
I think the adjusted Tavon’s time a ‘bit much’… from 4.25->to 4.34? Smells fishy
Everyone’s times get moved after the official numbers come out. Most go down 0.08-0.10.
I’m impressed by Ryan Swope & Conner Vernon as mid round picks at Wr. Swope ran in the 4.3s and has good hands, and Vernon also has suction cups for hands. I’m going to be watching more tape on these two.
Official 40 times for the receivers now posted on the blog.
Matt Scott has ‘Mars’ tatooed on his right shoulder. Huh?
Hopkins almost ran a 4.6? Can you say second round. Gonna check out some Stills film though, did you see that one handed catch and sub 4.4 40?
Rob, Do you know where we can see some tape of Marc Harrison of Rutgers?
Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOiwIK_2FiE
I was looking to see if this guy could block but couldn’t see anything really.
He’s big enough to be a joker possibility.
Hey Rob what do you think about Marques Wilson for a later round? I know he had a rift with the coaching staff at Washington but he seems to be a good hands catcher has good size and good speed
Not Rob, but I have an issue with his quitting at Wazzu during the season. Major red glad, IMO. Maybe take a flier with one of our 7s
Flag, not glad
Wilson looked really good to me too.
Looking good at the combine but was fairly inconsistent at Washington State. I’d worry about a guy who publishes a letter criticising his coaching staff at college. I’d need to grill him on that.
I’m not terribly concerned about it. My feeling is the staff drummed him out as much as he left. I’d question him about it, but I think his production the year previous was pretty good, and he has the measurables. He seems like an excellent guy to take a chance on later on in the draft, 5th round or later.
I think if he fell to round 7 that would be more then worth the pick.
“Ryan Swope doesn’t look like a wide receiver. He looks like he should be working in Blockbuster’s”
Haha, that is awesome…
What about Chris Harper from Kansas state? I really like his play making ability. Reminds me if Anquan Boldin
I think he’s OK. Average tape. Some nice catches, some sloppy plays. He’s only 6-0 and big. Mid-late rounder for me.
Maybe I was wrong about Austin. Seemed like he was cocky, but actually he’s soft spoken. I like that because it means a QB like R.Wilson could lead him. Man he looked quick out there on the field today along with good hands. Can you think of any other WR in this draft that could separate better than Austin as a Seahawk when Wilson scrambles looking for a 10-15 yard on the run pass/dump off? Makes me think of how Bevell was able almost on the fly in mid season learn from the Redskins on how to use Wilson in the best way, and I have no doubt Bevell would be able to use Austin in a special way on offense. Not to mention punt returns.
EXACTLY Zach…that is the vision that hit me a while back when I first saw Austin on tape…
Austin and Wilson could be one magical team!
You wonder if Austin can be used enough in our offense to warrant a first round pick but if we do snatch him up at #25 or trade back into the early second you better believe PC/Bevell have exciting plans.
When you add in the proven KR/PR ability, and the fact that they could use him in the pistol formation, it might not be the biggest number of plays, but I bet out of all the 1st year WR taken, he will give back the most reward immediately!
Last years WR’s barely did anything, this guy is different… We should take a shot! If we can use a #15 pick on a situational pass rusher, then WHY NOT a change up lightning rod like Austin!!!
Ya, after today you would see a smile out of me if Austin is in Seahawk blue. DYNAMITE
You like exclamation points.
Knile Davis 4.3 whaaaat?
Unofficially
Ya, it didn’t look 4.3 fast, but for a back his size, 4.4 would be unbelievable.
4.31 now. Unreal even if it goes down to 4.4
Impressive
4.37
Fuck. Mid-to-late round players that I really like need to stop posting awesome forty times dammit. : )
Interested to see some of the scat backs like Kenjon Barner and Kerwynn Williams. Also rooting for Ellington and Christine Michael as two guys I think are underrated.
Christine Michael certainly looks the part, and if he is close to that first time he ran that would be impressive.
Bench and 40, Knile Davis and Christine Michael are winning the Combine. IDK what happened to Ellington, but he’s a special guy and I would love him in the 4th if he doesn’t sort all this out at his Pro Day. I think if you need a RB, he’s a 2/3 round talent.
Unofficial 4.21 by McCalebb fast
Onterio McCalebb looks nothing like an NFL running back, but holy crap!
Nope, side by side he was beat by Goodwin. Austin kept up with Goodwin, not McCaleb.
Wow, I had no idea Stepon Taylor was that slow!
Disappointing. Figured he probably wouldn’t be fast fast but that’s pretty slow. Was hoping he would be in the 4.5-4.6 range official but to get an unofficial time of 4.72 and 4.78… yikes. I like his agility and short area quickness from just watching him but he isn’t going to outrun anyone.
Montee Ball didn’t help himself with his 40 time either.
Taylor will be a solid NFL back for years. He’s simply a baller.
4.62 from Ball is 0.03 off the average running back forty over the last few years.
4.66 is the official time I think
Yep just seen the official times and added them to today’s blog post.
What a joke. McCaleb and Austin tied on the 40? Austin was beat by a knee on Goodwin, and McCaleb was beat by a body. I saw all of Goodwin’s body on the matchup with McCaleb.
Official times will move McCalebb’s time down.
They said his official time was 4.34
Still wish they ONLY used the actual accurate machines, instead of bleeding them together w hand held times…
In that same video of Goodwin and Austin superimposed over one another, Goodwin is barely ahead of Austin, yet Goodwin’s time shift .02, and Austin’s .09??? Looked closer then that…
Yep
Rob, I saw you posted above that Peter King expects Matt Flynn to be relased, even though John Schneider said in his press conference a few days ago they would not release just because of finances. I tend to agree. Why release guy who isn’t a cap liability right now and let someone have him for free? With the lack of “good” QB’s in this draft, and the FA market being less than stellar, it really wouldn’t surprise me if someone gets desperate and offers a 4th for Flynn. I can’t see him being released right now.
I can see them wanting to shed a substantial contract for a non-starter. They’re setting the tone for competition, but that almost flies in the face of it. “Earn $7.25m to be a backup”.
There’s also a chance they’ve identified a QB in this class… let’s say, for example, Sean Renfree, that they like in round four or five. And believe he can be a backup with trade value like Kirk Cousins in Washington. Then why wouldn’t you save $1.25 in 2013, $2m in 2014 and $5.25m in cash by cutting him?
If they believe there is a QB who they draft and groom to be a replacement, then I can understand that logic. It makes perfect sense.
On the other hand, there is much to be said for having a veteran backup, and you might as well see if there is any interest in him before letting him go. Saving the $$$ is going to be critical with the new deals we’ll have to sign, but saving $1.25 million doesn’t make me want to drop him right away. See if anyone out there is willing to make a deal, and if not, move on.
Ryan Aplin is a guy I think you can target later who has that dual-threat ability. I think there is something to be said for having similar style QB’s that can run similar offenses if your starter goes down. 3 year starter, also rushed for 440 yards this year that is projected to go 7/UDFA.
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2012 276 406 3342 68.0 8.23 74 24 4 15 154.7
I’m a big fan of Aplin too. As good of a mix of athleticism and accuracy as you will find in this draft. Unfortunately that is not saying much this year.
Not really making a lot of sense on this one. Saving 1.25 million when you might have to sign a backup for that or more if your QB is injured doesn’t make strategic sense. Just becauase they like a QB in the draft doesn’t mean they will assume he is ready to be the backup on a playoff ready team like Seattle. If we weren’t playoff ready, I might find your logic more sound. This team needs a backup that can reliably give themselves a chance to win. A 4th or 5th round rookie in a weak QB class is unlikely to provide that kind of insurance. Which leads us to signing one of the castoff veterans for a minor savings. I doubt John does that. We’ll see what kind of compensation KC gives up for Alex Smith as that will set the market for someone like Flynn.
How is Alex Smith worth more than Flynn? All Smith has proven is can’t take the most complete team to the SB. Why would any other team think Smith has chance to take them to the SB? At least Flynn hasn’t proven to be a loser. Flynn has a higher upside if a SB is what you want and not just a 10m dollar a year QB that probably won’t even take you to the playoffs.
Alex Smith has 80 starts under his belt, and was one of the better QB’s in this league until he got hurt. Flynn has two starts. There is something to be said for that.
The trouble with Smith is that he looked incredibly mediocre in the majority of those 80 starts, and didn’t succeed until relatively recently, and only then on a team with superior talent. Based on what I have seen of the two players, and I was a GM in need of a starter, I’d definitely take Flynn, because I think Flynn is the better football player.
The other reason I might prefer Flynn over Smith is cost; Smith comes with a far higher salary of something like 9mil to Flynn’s 6mil or so. I might also get Flynn for less draft capital.
Smith is damaged goods. Flynn is fresh and motivated. I’d take Flynn all day.
I’d take neither, personally.
Rob, I understand that’s your position, but don’t you think teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, the Jets, perhaps others determined to upgrade the position, wouldn’t consider bringing Flynn on as part of the competition?
Last year Seattle both signed a FA and drafted a QB. Nobody knew how that was going to work out, but clearly the approach increased the odds of finding a guy that could win. I would assert the same should happen this year, especially given that there are few, if any, college QBs that will be simply handed the starting job, ala Luck and RGIII. Flynn is a legitimate NFL QB capable of operating at some level. Perhaps higher than you believe (or lower than I do) but nonetheless, adding him to a competition has to be considered a way to increase the odds of success.
Or do you think of Flynn so poorly that you don’t believe he can provide any of these teams potentially a meaningful option?
I think he’s a really unspectacular player who will struggle without a tailor made offense. If he becomes a free agent the teams you list may well show some interest. But in terms of a trade and given his current contract, it doesn’t surprise me nobody is talking about a deal. He’s a classic overrated backup type for me. And if he had 16 games as a starter on a team like Oakland, he’d soon get found out.
No offense, but this logic is mind-bogglingly atrocious.
Wouldn’t quite go that far Ross, albeit I do get your point, but in 1 of those starts Matt Flynn had over 400 yards and 6 TD’s… The point of that being he made a bunch a difficult throws in that game. He played exceptionally well. Yes it is the Packers, and offensive juggernaut, but what I feel Zach kinda saying is Flynn might have way more UPSIDE if actually given the chance to lead a team… I agree that I’d like to see him get a chance, and prob do better than most think…
This was the first time that I saw Austin. I must say that I was impressed. I we take Austin in the first round, with the kind of KR/WR potential that he has, I would love to have him on the seahawks to take over for Leon Washington in returning punts and kicks, then in the slot and even in the read option some of the time when it’s supposed to go to the outside. as a receiver he is one of the best route runners in the class, and that could be open more often than not, and that would reduce the need for Wilson to scramble around like he has to sometimes.
that said, whether or not austin is on the board at the time, and whether or not the seahawks draft him depends on who is still available.
I wouldn’t dare spend a 1st rounder on him IMO. Not really a WR, just a hybrid player used with specific designs to get him open. He is a good KR/PR but I doubt he’s much of anything in the NFL as a receiver.
I feel the same. Not worth a 1st round pick.
Goodwin in the 3rd would make a lot more sense, but even then, there are a number of other players I’d rather have who can impact the game without being physically ruled out.
You guys sell him short… For god’s sake Marshall Faulk is calling him Harvin-Welker 2.0…
Whoever has the balls, if they have a decent team, will totally collect on this one.
He is a WR. Why do people keep saying he isn’t. Watch the tape. He plays WR. Get it?
Yes, he is unique- that’s his strength, not his weakness- and PC judges on what you CAN do, not on what you CAN’T do…look at RW.
As far as Goodwin over Austin- NO WAY! Goodwin is a track star playing football, Tavon is a football player. Goodwin showed bad hands and a severe inability to track the ball in the air. Just watch the Highlight of him VS. Oregon St. The very 1st play he can’t find the ball and misses a WIDE OPEN TD.
Now, as a late rounder, he might do, but Tavon is in a class all his own. Watch and see…
Marshall Faulk is not the oracle unfortunately. If he’s comparing him to Wes Welker, that kind of says a lot.
Says a lot how? in a bad way?
Welker is the most prolific WR the last 3 years or so…
If Faulk is comparing Austin to Welker, he might as well compare him to any small receiver. The only obvious similarity between Austin and Welker is that they’re both short.
We talk about not getting stuck on measurements, so let that part go. Yes both are short, Tavon is WAY faster, but Austin runs good routes and will get open like Welker. That’s the angle bro…
They are nothing alike. It’s a completely lazy comparison on Faulk’s behalf based on the fact both are unusually short.
Rob no…he is talking about possible production and dependability he sees at the next level. Can’t you see that?
Please take a minute and just IMAGINE he DOES work out!??!!
What if he DOES have the production he did in college?
Can you not entertain that for a moment? RW was “too short” to succeed.
This feels like the same crippling judgment… Can we NOT at least have an open mind until he actual gets a chance to play in the NFL???
Pretty please?
If he DOES work like college – would we not be amazingly more powerful???
Truly? if?
Paul… I think you need to chill out a bit dude. I understand that you’re a big fan of Tavon Austin, but please understand that not everyone shares that enthusiasm. You’ve been quite emphatic with your opinion on Austin and are becoming almost exasperated that people don’t agree. Everyone has the right to their opinion.
When someone compares a prospect to Wes Welker, you don’t presume, “oh… he means this specific detail about Welker” ie production. You presume he means a direct comparison. And the two players couldn’t be more different (apart from height) and are unlikely to have anything like similar roles in the NFL. It’s the kind of lazy comparison guys like Faulk often make. If you are a.) white or b.) short and play receiver, you’ll be compared to Welker.
The Wilson reference is irrelevant. This isn’t an issue with height. My opinion would be the same if Austin was 6-2. It’s about WVU’s need to manufacture his production and how that relates to the NFL. I couldn’t have been more clearer on this and I’m not going to keep repeating myself. To suggest people aren’t keeping an open mind simply because they don’t share your enthusiasm for Austin is exactly the kind of short sighted thinking you’re accusing me of.
And the final sentence… “if he works like college”. Sure, what if Reggie Bush worked like college? Or Vince Young? Or Graham Harrell? Or Colt McCoy? What if Terrance Williams just runs in a straight line like he did for Baylor and outran everyone to be the most productive receiver in college? We could come up with a hundred what if examples that didn’t pan out. I can see both sides of the argument, I just don’t think this team will be that interested in a manufactured ‘Tavon Austin’ package within their playbook that forces jet sweeps and end arounds etc to make sure this first round level of investment gets his touches.
I look forward to following his career, if he lands in Seattle then great. But I’m not giddy with excitement at the idea of him being the #25 pick and that’s just my opinion.
I’m sorry Paul, but I don’t believe we are selling him short. He’s a one trick pony who wasn’t asked to do much, and you’ve provided nothing to refute my claims. The PCJS “what they can do, not what they can’t” is very true, but can this kid do what they want him to do? I don’t know, and from what I’ve seen I’d be very wary of dropping that #25 pick on him.
Hilarious…out of your mind. “One trick pony”?? Go watch the Oklahoma VS WV game, then let’s talk…
So I watched the Oklahoma game, again, just to see if I missed something.
He had one pretty nice down the field catch….. and outside of that, really wasn’t a factor as a wide reciever. Oklahoma showed complete incompetence when he was in the backfield. Some of those holes were pretty damn huge and the D never laid a finger on him.
If this is your best game of convincing someone he’s an option at 25 as a WR, that’s pretty piss poor.
Two things changed my thinking about Austin today. Before, I didn’t see any way that Seattle would select a WR so short. The taller the WR/TE, the larger the catch radius, the better for RW.
However, I didn’t think Austin was so fast. I figured he’d come in at about 4.5+. As fast as he is, and as elusive, he’s going to make big plays just about every game.
Secondly, he can catch the ball, unlike Patterson, say, or some of the other journeyman WRs. Regardless of how he was used, or not used, in college, he can be an effective WR down the field.
Finally, Austin provides something entirely lacking from Seattle’s offense: speed and big-play ability. When Rob talks about manufacturing production, I’d say that’s what the offense has been doing so far. Add Austin to the mix and suddenly an entirely new dimension becomes available, and must be game-planned for.
Doubt he’ll be there at 25, but if he is, I’d say he would definitely be considered.
I think if anything our offense so far has been the picture of convention. Play action passes based off a strong running game. Take your shots when you see a favourable mismatch. And later in the year, exploit the tight end. There’s been a few trick plays here and there and they used the read option as a wrinkle, but there’s no specific ‘feeding’ of players. They don’t have a ‘Golden Tate’ package in the playbook.
My fear with Austin is you have to start adding little intricate screens, jet sweeps, end arounds and bubble’s to get him the football in space. He’s not a great deep receiver. At West Virginia it was Steadman Bailey running downfield after all. They were having such a dilemma working out ways to max out his potential they end up putting him at RB.. something that won’t happen in the NFL.
Fun player to watch in college and I look forward to seeing his career as a pro. But I’m pretty lukewarm about him. Could be amazing, but might need gimmicks to get there.
absolutely agree with Rob on this. Not worth the risk given his limitations. And regarding Goodwin, he routinely destroyed defenses on play action and double hitches downfield. You can likely get him in the 3rd round or beyond- way better cost/risk.
I also don’t think it’s necessary to accuse anyone of being out of their minds for disagreeing. You’re hot and heavy for Tavon. We get it.
JW… much apologizes… but someone calling the total leader of yards from scrimmage in the WHOLE NCAA football as a “1 trick pony”, sorry, is out of their mind…
Not to be hostile. Just to say hey… come on. He didn’t have over 2,000 total yards of 1 play…
Just the fact that he had 344 yards as a RB, over a 82 yards as a WR…
If you allow your imagination to see what Bevell could do with him and RW, you might see an ocean of possibility…
Not trying to convince you of him being a #25 pick WR… that would be a ‘piss poor’ explanation of his real potential…
KR/PR/WR/RB… When we BOX in something ‘different’, then we miss it’s potential.
RW anybody? He plays ALL over the field… this isn’t to fulfill a WR “fixed dogmatic” role… He is a pandora… if used correctly, he will wear down a defense…
Plus as a team, we literally could add Leon Washington to the Flynn trade, get a better defensive player than prior to ‘make up’ for Austin to all those who doubt, and then save money on Leon, and not be dire possibly for Tate next year when he is due…
We want a BIG WR too, I get that. We got 6-5 Stephen Williams, will probably add a TE and another big WR late. Thus why not grab a 4 in 1 lightning rod!
It worked with Russell Wilson…
Do you really, honestly, believe that Austin is just going to go to the NFL and continue the same gimmicks he’s done at WVU and be a star?
Are you out of your damn mind?
Are we just gonna line him up in the backfield and expect him to run through the gigantic holes he did against Oklahoma? Are we gonna start running the jet sweep and catch defenses off guard and out of place every. single. time? Are we going to run him out of the backfield and into the flats and pretend the defense won’t cover him, sort of like Texas did?
No, no and no.
He has elite speed, no one doubts that. But what have you seen that says he’s going to jump into this offense and be a huge playmaker? What have you really seen that makes you believe he is ready to come into our offense and be a contributor? What Rob and I have debated is not his potential- not at all- it’s the concern of do you have to change the offense, and how much, to get him to be a contributor?
He wasn’t asked to work the sidelines and make toe-tapping grabs. He wasn’t running slants to precision and asked to go in motion. He was given opportunities with the ball in his hands- and in space- to make plays. Why do you think every announcer consistently preached the same battlecry for him, “He’s a playmaker in space!”
That is what worries me. HE IS NOT GOING TO BE GIVEN A 5 YARD CUSHION EVERYTIME HE HAS THE BALL. It will not happen. If this guy has to be given spacing to be successful, he’s never going to be elite. You used Reggie Bush as an example citing “he won a Super Bowl”. Yes, he did, but was he ever an integral part of that offense? No, not even close. That New Orleans offense never lost a beat without him and the debate whether Houston should’ve taken him over Mario is laughable looking back it.
This team doesn’t need a Percy Harvin, Wes Welker type. They need a guy who draw coverage away from Sidney and Golden. I don’t think Tavon is that guy, and I think selecting him at 25 is ridiculous.
Peace Colin…
Peace Paul 🙂
Here’s the problem though, Goodwin has shown nothing like Austin has proven outside of running in a straight line really fast. While I don’t want Tavon in R1, I don’t think it’s fair to compare him to another based strictly off measurables, when he has years of elite production.
That said, I do “get” your bottom line point. Austin is a hybrid player, but I do think he has elite ability. Not only is he fast, but COD is cartoonish.
I don’t understand them either Paul! I would love taking Tavon Austin in the first. Let the record show that I am predicting Tavon Austin to be in the contention for 2014 offensive rookie of the year. He is lightning in a bottle.
He is also a player without a position. People said that drafting Reggie Bush in the top 5 was a great idea even though he wasn’t anything above average as an actual running back.
Uh, Reggie Bush has a Super Bowl Ring…
Isn’t that what we want everyone? A Seattle Seahawk Super Bowl Championship??
LOL…Snoop Dogg, you are the only one that understands… hahaha…
we get so in to this! I Love it! Just means we give a shit…
NOT a proven route runner. Most of his stats were manufactured – we’d have to create special plays that contradict our strengths and scheme just to get him in space. I do NOT think he is a good fit for us. We ask our WR’s to block a lot. Bailey was the WR running all the routes for Austin’s team (WV).
We should resolve our impotent pass rush (big, 3 down DE or DL – Brandon Williams?). Then look for a joker TE who can create mismatches (too big for CB to cover, too fast for LB). This player would also open up opportunities for very dangerous 2 x TE sets (like Patriots) where you have extra blocking power on the field for our Beast attack. But at any moment, it’s just a chip block and he runs past a flailing LB…all day long! This draft strategy fits within the parameters of our scheme which our players have begun to execute with mastery. Let’s stay on the path!
Releasing Flynn might not save a lot of money this year, but it will save $8.25 million in 2014. The total savings from 2013 and 2014 will be $9.5 million in cap space. Hopefully they can find a trade partner, not just because of the draft pick but because it would save them several million more than releasing him would.
They can save all but 1.25 million by cutting him next year.
KICKING myself for not writing that Ryan Swope article the last couple nights. Almost wrote that over the linebacker one. I revisited Swopes tape last week and was stunned by how fast and quick he was. He’s not just a special WR, he’s a special athlete. I am not surprised that he ran this fast. But what people don’t know is that Swope can juke people out of their shoes too.
I don’t think Wes Welker is an overshoot for Swope as a projection. In fact, I think Swope’s upside could actually be even higher since he’s a lot taller than Welker is.
I rate Swope more highly than some on this blog because in the A&M games, he always made the clutch catches. He was the undisputed go-to target for Manziel.
Looks like great value if he falls to 3 or 4. But his 40 time probably elevates him to a 2nd round pick…too early for us with pass rush problems to resolve. Doug Baldwin will be finally be healthy and productive this year. But this kid is special…weird how tiny his hands are…
Cordarrelle Patterson: Remember that he’s more of a “moves” guy than a pure speed player. 4.42 isn’t chump change especially for a guy with that kind of ability to make defenders miss. He reminds me a lot of Bo Jackson in terms of the eyeball test of him as a runner, though obviously he’s no where near as fast (Jackson had an unofficial 4.12 forty).
My biggest issue with Patterson was just how awful he looked doing drills. Couldn’t catch a dime. Looked like if the cones weren’t laid out he wouldn’t know how to run the routes.
I wonder how this WR group compares to years past in terms of speed. I can’t remember seeing so many legitimate NFL WR prospects posting 4.2s, 4.3s, and 4.4s before.
MOCK DRAFT!
PODCAST!
GOOGLE CHAT!
I am excited.
As a massive attention seeker, I’m always happy to do Podcast’s and google chats.
Star Lotulelei has a hear condition, won’t compete at the combine: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/star-lotulelei-has-a-heart-condition
woa
Rob- What do you think of Marquess Wilson? He looked good today to me
Yep looked good today. There’s nothing wrong with his athletic talent. He was a little frustrating in college at times.. great play one minute, then a howler the next. His departure leaves a lot to be desired. Could be a value pick.
I liked his hands today. Smooth in his on-field work from what I saw.
While I haven’t followed Tavon Austin a lot, I’ve learned to think that he’ll be a useful play-maker in the NFL. He can be that Sproles-type with more of a slant toward the receiver position. Slot, RB, Return man in both punts and kicks he can do a lot. His 174lb weight listing is my biggest concern, though by all accounts he’s tough.
If he can hold up physically, I see no reason Austin can’t do what Randall Cobb does for GB. That’s a massive weapon if used properly. I knew he was quick and elusive, but until today I didn’t know he had elite speed to go with it. He can be lethal in the right system if his body can take a sufficient NFL workload.
I’m just not big on Tavon Austin because I personally believe you’re really going to have to teach him how to be an NFL receiver. There are going to ask much more of him at the pro level, and I don’t think you are getting enough from him at 25 to justify it. JMO.
That’s a good point and one I hadn’t given much thought in terms of route-running ability. I wonder how refined Cobb was coming out in that area? Regardless, I don’t think he’s a player that is high on Seattle’s priority list for various reasons. I also think he may not last to 25. Those movable chess pieces are becoming more popular. That said, I think Seattle still wants more size for a WR they target in this draft.
Out of all the WRs I think DaRick Rodgers had the best NFL body. He disappointed a bit at catching the balls thrown to him but many of those balls were thrown bad. What impressed me was how he looked after the catch, explosive. Give this guy a few years under the right system and I believe he can be a number one receiver. Raw talent and raw character but please Pete consider taking this guy.
He is an absolute nightmare apparently.
Heard he did good in the interviews.
If we don’t need too, why risk it?
Nightmare in what respect? A potential nightmare as a team-mate? A nightmare for defenses?
Not sure how to interpret your comment, and I am interested in what you think of Rogers as a WR in the NFL.
Nightmare in terms of character. I can’t trust this guy personally. I probably wouldn’t even have his name on my board. Having said that, I don’t get to interview him and hire a private investigator to check him out. But based on what information is available, I avoid him.
Understood. So no matter how well he does on the field, if he has a poor football character than he shouldn’t be considered. No sense in bringing in a guy that won’t commit himself to further development and be the kind of team-mate that contributes to a winning team.
If that’s the case.
My concern is that getting kicked off Tennessee’s roster created an epiphany, but once he’s in the league and goes back to a sense of entitlement he’ll revert back to type.
A report said that both JS&PC have interviewed Datone Jones. They interviewed him at the Senior Bowl too. Many on this blog have questioned Jones on where he would fit, I say where wouldn’t he fit. To me he’s the most versatile D-lineman I’ve seen so far and he impressed me at the Senior Bowl. But in JS we trust so obviously they know what they want. Jones makes sense because he can play DE or DT and we need both.
I’d argue that it’s not really much of an indicator, and Carroll already knows about Jones because he was a USC target as a recruit. Usually it’s the interviews you don’t hear about that are the more telling. The issue is, at 280lbs he’s not going to be able to play early downs at defensive tackle and he’s not a LEO. So he either adds weight (he’s already up from 260lbs a couple of years ago) or loses weight (not keen) to fit. And that’s the issue with Jones. Right now the only obvious fit is the Jason Jones role. He’d have to change to fit.
So if we draft Jones will you question the JS/PC move on that one?
I’d wait to see how they used him in that scenario. I’m not criticising a decision that has yet to be made after all, I’m passing comment on a suggestion.
If they draft him, they would surely plan to use him at DE on early downs and either DE or DT on passing downs. I personally prefer a scheme with a large DT (Brandon Williams?) next to Mebane. Together they could generate push to collapse the pocket, which turns Irvin loose to chase flushed QB’s with his freak speed!
Rob, when you said “The average time for a running back over the last few years has been 4.59” I have to think you meant at the Combine. I’d be curious what the average time for a drafted RB would be? Too similar to matter? I wonder how many non-FBs get drafted above a certain cutoff point? It’s picking nits, though, anyway. Some guys don’t test well and for other guys it simply doesn’t really matter – they have enough functional, football speed to get it done anyway.
Yes I was referring to the average time at the combine.
Very much getting Andy Dalton vibes from Tyler Bray. Similar bad tape, similar off-putting personality, but all the same, he’s driven, almost cocky, and has a great arm. Andy Dalton is slowly turning into a pretty good NFL QB, which I would have never thought possible a couple years ago.
Bray ran a faster time than I expected, close to the same range Dalton ran in. Dalton is a decently mobile QB, and he could probably even make read option work, even if he’s never going to rip off 60 yard runs. John Schneider admitted to nearly drafting Dalton at #25 in 2011. Maybe the Seahawks want someone more mobile than Bray. But a team that likes Andy Dalton is going to like Tyler Bray.
I must admit, I truly enjoy watching Andy Dalton lose to teams with winning records (His record is like 1-13 or some god-awful stat). It just re-affirms John and Pete’s decision to pass was correct.
I dont think they passed him up. i think he was drafted just before we were ready to take him.
I think Dalton wasn’t passed over as he was taken before us before we got was ready to pick him.
Sorry Rob…Enjoy…you do a good job…
No need to apologise man, it’s all good. And heated debates are good too. I just think heated debates also need a moment of reflection when we realise we’re all allowed to disagree with each other.
The funny thing is I have learnt more here than anywhere else. I try not to be belligerent. (even w beer)
…and plus if they did take Austin, and it didn’t work, I would be heart broken.
Not because of Austin, but because I want the Seattle Seahawks to get that damn trophy!
I just want them to win. Especially after being so close, showing so much potential…
We’ll get there one day! SuperBowl Champions!!!
And even when heated, this is a fun place to celebrate our team, and its’ future… Thanks Rob…
I think TJ Moe from Missouri very quietly had a good day. #1 overall in 3 cone drill, 20yard shuttle and 60 yard shuttle. Also #1 WR on bench press. Made some nice catches too. That kind of quickness and agility could translate into a good back up for Baldwin in the slot. Should be good on special teams too. Even if the Hawks take an outside reciever early, he could be good value in the 6-7th round.
I really liked Josh Boyce from TCU too but after the day he had today, I don’t think he stays under the radar.
Since the Tavon Austin conversation escalated, I will offer this: I think he is a great acquisition for a team without an established, successful scheme like the Seahawks have. He is a good fit for a team willing to concede team blocking by having TA on the field for the purpose of running special plays designed to get him the ball and create space for him. He is lightning in a bottle and his speed + ridiculous cuts are a joy to watch. It is a gamble whether he can recreate himself to be a consistent threat at slot receiver, though.
That’s exactly how I feel, Robert.
Let’s approach the Tavon Austin assessment from another angle —
Of all the players I have seen in this year’s combine, Tavon is the one that I would LEAST want the Seahawk’s to have to line up against. In other words, from a matchup perspective, how’d you like to see him playing for the Rams (they need a player to replace Amendola) or the 49ers?
The guy has done everything he’s been asked to do. If we’ve got to add some plays to the playbook to maximize his potential, no sweat. Think how our offense took off this year when we began to run the read option to maximize the potential that RW has.
My only question about him is whether he’s willing to put in the same amount of effort that RW has. Will he be willing to put in the extra work to make his game better and to make the Seahawks better? Just asking the question — I haven’t heard anything about him that causes me to doubt that he would be willing. He seems to have a little chip on his shoulder about his size and I think he’s anxious to prove his critics wrong. Sound familiar?
Too bad he’ll never make it to #25 ….
The question about putting in the work might be the the number one issue here. And even if he does put in the work there is no guarantee it will pay off. There is no doubt he is physically gifted and a nightmare when he gets he ball in space. The big question is , how is he going to get the ball in space? I don’t think you can run the same number of gadget plays in the NFL as they did in college. NFL defenders won’t let them develope. He doesn’t have the size as some other raw recievers that have come out and been able to contribute early by phyisically out matching opponents. That only really leaves the option him learning to run the full NFL route tree AND learning how to set up defenders and read defenses. That is where I think most of the “anti Austin” sentiment is coming from.
Golden Tate took more than two years to really star figuring that last part out. And he was asked to run a much more diverse, NFL style route tree in college than Austin has. Tate took a lot of heat for not being able to read a defense and get open early in his career. Just think how much worse it would have been if he was a first rounder with first round expectations.
I don’t think anyone is denying Austin’s tremendous and game changing potential. But potential is a scary thing to draft in the 1st when it’s probable that he will only contribute on gadget plays at first with no guarantee of how much more or when he will learn it in the future.
Getting the answer to why WVU did not use him more often on down the field routes like they did with Bailey is going to be very telling.
My definition of “potential” must be different from your’s Leonard. I think of Cordarrelle Patterson when I think of “potential”. A guy that has a lot of tools, but hasn’t really had the time or opportunity to put all of them to skillful use.
In contrast, Austin has played for 4 years at WVU, with 58 catches as a Soph., 101 as a Jr., and 114 as a Sr. He was an All American as a Jr. and a Sr. In addition, he’s rushed for over 1,000 yds. in his career, and returned 4 kicks for TDs. He has done everything he’s been asked to do.
I don’t think that asking why he wasn’t used on downfield routes is relevant. Are you worried about his speed? I don’t see the Seahawks using him as a wideout. His real advantages come when he plays from the slot or from the backfield where you can isolate him against LBs and/or safeties.
How much tape of him have you watched? Because I just don’t see the “gadget” plays in the tape I have seen.
Potential is all these kids have. It’s just potential to me until they prove they can do it against pros. What do you think Austin’s role would be in the offense? The same as in colledge? I don’t see the jet sweeps, pistol formation hand offs and reverses working nearly as well in the NFL. By far his most common pass routes were screens, swing routes, short slants, outs and crossing routes mostly at the 2-6 yard depth. Again, this will not work as well in the NFL. The few times he runs patterns from an NFL route tree he looked very raw and didn’t get great separation. He didn’t have to learn these things in colledge because the “get him the ball quick” thing worked so well. It will work in the NFL as well but probably to a lesser extent. Better atheletes with better coaching will reign a lot of that in. Desean Jackson only get’s away with because he was a polished route runner coming out of college. He already knew how to read zone vs man defense and what each meant to him. He already knew how to set up DB’s, make his break and use body control to get himself in the best spot to make the catch.
Golden Tate is just starting to get a grasp on all this and he had more of a pro style offense in than Austin did. Right now Austin is the biggest play maker in the draft. First year he should be good for some big plays here and there. Probably contend for pro bowl returner too. It’s just going to take time for him to learn to be a consistent slot reciever that can beat a DB 1 on 1 or understand where the open spot in the zone will be. If he does, then he can be better than Steve Smith from Carolina. If he has a hard time with these concepts then he can be what the Hawks hoped Tate would be as a rookie.
I’d love to have him in round 2. I think the best chance at uprading the team for next year in round one is at D line or LB. Unless one of the stud lineman inexplicably drop. Austin and Baldwin would be a nice slot combo. Lightning and the technician.
Either way I am so excited for next year. Go Hawks!