A mediocre day
As far as underwhelming combine days go — this was right up there. Is this a defensive draft? Absolutely based on the way the skill positions performed on Friday and Saturday.
If you want to know why the Seahawks are firmly keeping hold of Jimmy Graham — this is why. It’s a horrible tight end class again. Graham, even coming off a significant injury, is a far superior option than anyone in this draft.
The receivers are mostly slow or average (or both) and the top quarterback trio (Lynch, Wentz, Goff) look like guys you prefer to admire from afar. If you’re a fan with Russell Wilson leading your team they probably seem pretty good. I’m not sure, however, if you’d be quite so thrilled if you were pinning your hopes on any of the three winning you a Championship over the next decade.
The running backs yesterday had a couple of highlights (Ezekiel Elliott and Derrick Henry) but some of the second tier options were very average. C.J. Prosise and Kenneth Dixon are probably battling to be the next guys up.
There are some nice options on the O-line — but the star power is mostly on defense.
Josh Doctson made a statement
After running a decent 4.50 at 6-2 and 202lbs — Doctson followed it up with a 41 inch vertical and a 10-11 broad jump. He’s not the longest player (31 7/8 inch arms) but on tape he does a good job adjusting to the ball and making difficult grabs. He’s a nice compliment of reasonable size and explosion (he does turn 24 this year). He could be an early second round pick depending on what teams are looking for. If you want speed you go Will Fuller, if you want a bit more size you take Doctson.
Sterling Shepard is also moving up
Bring on the comparisons to Tyler Lockett. Shepard was incredibly reliable in college but needed to flash some athleticism here. Job done. After running a 4.48 he jumped 41 inches in the vertical. That’s a nice combination and could secure a second round grade.
Marquez North states his case
We highlighted North as a later round option — or even an UDFA option. At 6-2 and 223lbs he ran a 4.48, jumped 35 inches in the vertical and had a 10-3 in the broad. North is pretty much the receiver version of running back Keith Marshall. They were both highly rated recruits flashing major talent early in their college careers. Now they’re starting over in the NFL after some struggles and injuries. North also caught the ball very well during drills, presenting his hands to the quarterback.
Duke Williams & De’Runya Wilson struggle badly
Nothing represents the rampant mediocrity of the day better than these two. Williams, who was kicked out of Auburn, claimed he was a first round talent with seventh round character earlier in the week. After running a 4.72 he might want to rethink the self-scouting. Wilson was even worse — running a 4.85 and posting a ridiculous 28 inch vertical. He’ll sink like a stone unless a legit injury issue emerges.
How to rank the receivers
Corey Coleman didn’t run a forty but jumped a 40.5 inch vertical. He’s an explosive athlete who makes big plays. Laquon Treadwell is sturdy and looks in great condition — he’s just not a speed guy. That’s your top two. After that? It could be anything. Josh Doctson and Will Fuller maybe stole a march on Michael Thomas and the rest. Sterling Shepard is closing the gap.
The top three QB’s
There wasn’t a great deal to separate the top three. Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch and Jared Goff all looked fairly comfortable. Lynch was perhaps a little weaker in terms of accuracy during the throwing drills. He also arguably has the greater physical upside — jumping a 36 inch vertical at 6-7 and 244lbs. In comparison, Andrew Luck also jumped a 36 and Cam Newton had a 35. Wentz managed a 30.5 inch vertical and Goff a 27. Lynch presents an intriguing skill-set. Wentz and Goff might be deemed ‘safer’ prospects — but neither has Lynch’s upside, size, arm strength and athleticism. The combine buzz seems to indicate Wentz will be the first off the board.
What about the next group?
Christian Hackenburg has some of the physical traits you like but he was all over the place during drills today. His accuracy was well off — even standing in shorts throwing to open receivers. Connor Cook looked OK — pretty much how he looked in college. Good but not great. Nobody else really stood out as a nice developmental guy to work behind Russell Wilson.
Time to forget about Apple, Alexander and Howard
The Seahawks won’t take cornerbacks with sub-32 inch arms. There’s always a chance they make an exception for an exceptional athlete. Eli Apple and Mackensie Alexander don’t appear to have the dynamic athleticism to combat a lack of length. Xavien Howard? We’ll see. We’ll find out for sure on Monday when the DB’s work out.
Apple and Mackensie have 31.5 inches arms, while Howard’s are 31 inches. It’d take an amazing athlete for the Seahawks to consider a corner in the first frame regardless. They’re unlikely to find one at #26.
Vernon Hargreaves — still overrated
On tape he bites on double moves, gambles way too much and is a poor open field tackler. Yes — he’ll probably have a great work out on Monday. At 5-10, 204lbs and with 30.5 inch arms — can you seriously put him out wide? People love to compare Hargreaves to Joe Haden — but Haden has 33 inch arms and was far more polished.
Hargreaves looks like a pure slot corner. Which is fine — he could be a very good one with explosive athleticism and a nose for the ball working across the middle. It’s a nice fit. But how early are you willing to take a slot corner? Bradley Roby was the #31 pick in 2014. I still think there’s a chance Hargreaves drops into that kind of range.
Keanu Neal looks more attractive by the day
We highlighted him a couple of days ago as a possible option at #26. That talk isn’t going away. Neal is almost identical in size to Deone Bucannon (6-0, 211lbs) but he has superior length (33 inch arms). Length, speed, athleticism, grit, tenacity — it’s everything the Seahawks look for.
I sense some scepticism about taking a ‘deathbacker’ (hybrid S/LB) in the first round. I get that. There are bigger needs today on the O-line and D-line. If they’re able to fill some of those needs in free agency then don’t rule this out. The Seahawks pick four times in the first three rounds and will have an opportunity to fill several needs in the first two days.
Neal is explosive and hard-hitting and would be Seattle’s answer to Bucannon and Mark Barron. He can cover the slot too and possibly replace Kam Chancellor at strong safety one day.
He might not even make it to #26. For me Keanu Neal is one of the best 25 players in the draft. And if you’re wondering about the name…
Keanu Neal says that he was named after Keanu Reeves, but he's not a big fan of Reeves as an actor. People joke about the Matrix with him
— NFL Draft Zone (@NFLDraftZone) February 27, 2016
The group of 32
If we need to focus on defensive backs with 32 inch arms, here’s the list:
James Bradberry — 6-0, 211lbs, 33 inch arms
Artie Burns — 6-0, 193lbs, 33 inch arms
Jeremy Cash — 6-0, 212lbs, 32.5 inch arms
Deandre Elliott — 6-0, 188lbs, 32 inch arms
T.J. Green — 6-2, 209lbs, 32 inch arms
Deiondre Hall — 6-1, 199lbs, 34.5 inch arms
William Jackson — 6-0, 189lbs, 32 inch arms
Karl Joseph — 5-10, 205lbs, 32 inch arms
Jayron Kearse — 6-4, 216lbs, 34 inch arms
Miles Killebrew — 6-2, 217lbs, 32 inch arms
Jordan Lomax — 5-10, 202lbs, 32 inch arms
Eric Murray — 5-10, 199lbs, 32 inch arms
Keanu Neal — 6-0, 211lbs, 33 inch arms
Jaylen Ramsey — 6-1, 209lbs, 33.5 inch arms
Rashard Robinson — 6-1, 171lbs, 32 inch arms
Keivarae Russell — 6-0, 192lbs, 32 inch arms
Justin Simmons — 6-2, 203lbs, 32.5 inch arms
Brandon Williams — 5-11, 197lbs, 32.5 inch arms
Daryl Worley — 6-0, 204lbs, 33.5 inch arms
Tony Pauline says Jaylon Smith could be a day three pick
It’s the saddest story of the combine so far — but Notre Dame’s star linebacker is set to go from top-five lock to day three flier. All because he injured his knee in a meaningless bowl game.
Pauline says he could last until rounds 4-7. Like Marcus Lattimore, he’ll get a chance to return. There’s also a realistic possibility we don’t see him until 2017 at the earliest — and will he ever be 100%?
Pauline also says Jack Conklin is destined to go in the top-15, Le’Raven Clark is going to be a second round pick at worst and Mitchell Schwartz will command $8m APY in free agency.
The line on Clark is interesting. Teams clearly love the potential but are probably petrified of the work he needs on his technique. If it clicks though you could be looking at an elite left tackle. The risk/reward could be appealing to any team with a good O-line coach.
Tomorrow and Monday is when the fun begins
Here’s the key for tomorrow — look for edge rushers running a 10-yard split in the 1.5’s. Cliff Avril ran a 1.50, Bruce Irvin a 1.55 and Frank Clark a 1.59. Anything in the 1.5’s is elite.
For the defensive tackles — anything in the 1.6’s is excellent. Aaron Donald ran a 1.59 split but he’s a freak of nature.
The Seahawks would like to add a pass-rusher and while it might be interesting to look at some of the bigger-bodied guys and see how they move — this front office has preferred to draft base DT’s in rounds 3-5 or look to free agency.
Quickness, agility, explosion. For all the depth on the D-line in this class there aren’t a ton of great interior pass rushers. Let’s see if there are any prospects with at least the upside to get there.
Mid-combine mock
#1 Tennessee — Laremy Tunsil (T, Ole Miss)
#2 Cleveland — Carson Wentz (QB, North Dakota State)
#3 San Diego — Jaylen Ramsey (CB, Florida State)
#4 Dallas — Myles Jack (LB, UCLA)
#5 Jacksonville — Joey Bosa (DE, Ohio State)
#6 *TRADE W/BALTIMORE* Los Angeles — Paxton Lynch (QB, Memphis)
#7 San Francisco — Jared Goff (QB, California)
#8 Miami — DeForest Buckner (DE, Oregon)
#9 Tampa Bay — Noah Spence (DE, Eastern Kentucky)
#10 New York Giants — Darron Lee (LB, Ohio State)
#11 Chicago — Ronnie Stanley (T, Notre Dame)
#12 New Orleans — Sheldon Rankins (DT, Louisville)
#13 Philadelphia — Jack Conklin (T, Michigan State)
#14 Oakland — Ezekiel Elliott (RB, Ohio State)
#15 Baltimore — A’Shawn Robinson (DT, Alabama)
#16 Detroit — Jason Spriggs (T, Indiana)
#17 Atlanta — Leonard Floyd (LB, Georgia)
#18 Indianapolis — Taylor Decker (T, Ohio State)
#19 Buffalo — Jarran Reed (DT, Alabama)
#20 New York Jets — Derrick Henry (RB, Alabama)
#21 Washington — Reggie Ragland (LB, Alabama)
#22 Houston — Corey Coleman (WR, Baylor)
#23 Minnesota — Laquon Treadwell (WR, Ole Miss)
#24 Cincinatti — Andrew Billings (DT, Baylor)
#25 Pittsburgh — Joshua Garnett (G, Stanford)
#26 Seattle — Keanu Neal (S, Florida)
#27 Green Bay — Vernon Butler (DT, Louisiana Tech)
#28 Kansas City — Vernon Hargreaves (CB, Florida)
#29 Arizona — Eli Apple (CB, Ohio State)
#30 Carolina — Shon Coleman (T, Auburn)
#31 Denver — Cody Whitehair (G, Kansas State)
Keanu Neal has a wonderful tape. It’d be an amazing pick if we resign Okung and address either of LG/C via FA. Like others said, this would command PC/JS to trade Chancellor. It wouldn’t hurt me at all. He hurt us more than he helped us last season and is likely to keep declining..
If they traded him you think they could get another round 2-4 pick? He’s still a good player and could flourish in the right place. I would hope they wouldn’t sell low (like with Harvin) and could use that pick to fill another need.
PCJS have said they aren’t trading Chancellor.
The only way a trade comes into play is if Kam holds out again. That will be after this draft so we’d be talking about a pick for next year.
Then there is the fact that Kam is the highest paid strong safety but still wants more money and he’s coming off a down year. Maybe a 4th.
Thanks for the update my man.
I still don’t think this is a great draft class.
OL, DL, and maybe the LB’s is where the talent is IMO.
Very disaapointing day for the WRs, RBs where ‘meh,’ sans 4 or 5 thought a lot of the OT’s underwhelmed yesterday, and not a very good looking CB class either.
We gotta give JS and his scouting staff even more love than usual. Look at the positions of talent and depth lie, and then intersect those with our possible needs.
I think it’s a pretty good class for depth. You can find guys into the middle rounds and beyond that can have an impact.
It aint going to be 2011 at the top end though.
Yeah- I do agree about the depth. That’s a good point,
Just seems to be lacking in top end and front line talent like you said.
It’s not that I don’t like this class, there’s definetly talent.
More width than depth though, no? Doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of top-tier talent.
Rob. Do you really think Neal is the first safety off the board? He’s not even in Mayocks top 5. He has a great highlight reel but some mediocre moments on tape. I like the idea but he’s not a safety who has tons of coverage tools. Maybe Hawks get him later if interested?
He won’t get out of the top-40.
Mayock also has Willie Beavers as the 5th best offensive tackle and Vadal Alexander as the second best guard.
I am sure there will be a lot of changes to Mayock and other pundits lists after the combine.
Question would be why they would need to be changed so much.
Who is Mayock, anyway, and why should we listen to him or care about his opinion?
No draft expert is gonna get everything right, but in my draft watching experience I prefer Mayock to the ESPN guys. Probably, for me, because the NFL network doesn’t spoil the picks in the first round like ESPN does – so I prefer to watch it on there. Plus, I like Charles Davis evaluating the later rounds..but that’s just me.
Mayock’s enthusiasm for the draft is infectious. His partnership with Rich Eisen is pretty much perfection. Two brilliant, brilliant broadcasters.
I do suspect, however, that Mayock is increasingly relying on info to fill in the gaps. He’s well connected. He’s more of a voice for the conventional thinking now. Doesn’t seem to ‘bang the table’ as much for his guys. Which is a shame.
Real question, though. Why should we listen to Mayock (other than for entertainment)? Are you saying he’s essentially just passing on info he learns from scouting/team sources, or is he doing his own evaluation to rank guys?
A bit of both.
I’m not saying you/we should listen to Mayock. I think he’s pure draft entertainment and there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t dislike Kiper, Mayock, McShay — any of the talking heads. It’s all part of what makes the draft.
Yeah, they have good chemistry. It’s funny when Rich keeps pushing Mayock, and he just ignores him. I don’t like how it’s always a fight on ESPN.
I don’t think we’ll pick a DT early, pass rush just isn’t there and I’m not sold on Rankins’s tape — hard to judge considering how he was used. Some of the DE/LB prospects look very intriguing though, everyone seems to enamored with the DT’s to pay much attention to them. Let’s hope for some 1.5’s!
Keanu’s highlight reel you posted was amazing, seems impossible not seeing him make it in the NFL based on that, but it is a highlight reel so… still unsure. Can easily get behind the pick though. Instant impact player. Seems like if you took Earl and Kam and mashed them together.
Too bad Higbee isn’t healthy, he could’ve really helped himself considering the competition.
Rankins is extraordinary. He’s such a versatile and polished player, still has upside by mastering pass rush moves, he’s my favorite player in the draft.
He is one of my favourites as well and I think he will go in top 10
I’m kind of hoping they trade the #26 pick for around the 10th-15th pick of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. This would give them 5 picks on Day 2. There will be a lot of good players available from #35 to #98.
What was VA Tech DT Luther Maddy’s official measurements?
6′ 0″ #287, 33 1/4″ Arms, 9″ hands
Thank’s man.
Good length, but a bit short.
Short interior D-lineman have somewhat of an advantage, they have natural leverage.
I was more disappointed with the lack of bulk. He’s the one who I thought could be a poor man’s Mebane, but needs more lower half and overall bulk for it.
Anyone see the measurements on Maryland DT Quentin Jefferson?
This is a disappointing receiver class, but after watching nearly all the WR drills, there are some positive takeaways. Here are my thoughts on some potential later round guys who looked good in at least a few key areas:
– I like Devon Cajuste as a later-round, big bodied WR/TE hybrid. His numbers were very good: best 3-cone time, good 40 for a guy his size, very decent 36″ vertical. He looked good catching the ball with fairly soft hands and minimal effort.
– Chris Moore wasn’t as fast as I thought he’d be (4.53), but he’s still a legit deep threat who can leap (37″ vert, 130″ broad). His athleticism, receiver skills, and college production should warrant a later-round pick.
– Kolby Listenbee looks like the poor man’s Will Fuller. Wonder where he’ll be drafted–probably in the round 4-6 range.
– Cody Core was fast and looked pretty good in the catching drills, but his vertical (31.5″) was a bit disappointing.
– Marquez North is surely interesting and performed well in the drills, but his injury history is a concern. Could end up being a late-round steal, or a bust.
– DJ Foster looked very solid across the board, including in the receiving drills, and was a great shuttler. An intriguing RB/WR hybrid type.
– Trevor Davis (Cal) as an UDFA return specialist to complement Lockett, and to provide extra depth in the receiving core? Davis flashed remarkable athleticism and looked good enough in the catching drills.
Cody Core reminds me a little bit of Cole Beasley
I like Cajuste, bit wouldn’t consider him as any manner of TE, strictly WR who happens to be on the big side.
I’m waiting on the Kyler Fackrell 10-yard split. If he can run under 1.6, then he’s the pick for me. If not, lets go for Deion Jones or an OL like Whitehair, Garnett, or Coleman.
Yeah I was wondering where the Deion Jones love went. He seems like a better pick based on position – in that he would be a day one starter with Irvin gone.
Where does Neal play? Even if Kam gets traded, they already have a starter-level player at SS.
Am I missing something?
We’ve mentioned a few times where he would play to be fair — the exact same role Deone Bucannon plays for the Cards and Mark Barron plays for the Rams.
Yep, re-read it, didn’t stick the first time. Thanks.
I’m on the Fackrell bandwagon. Even if he’s not on the Hawks radar, I’m rooting for him to do well.
Poor receiver draft class and poor receiver free agents should ensure Kearse gets way more than he deserves in free agency.
Likely Kearse is moving on – someone is going to want him and will pay too much. We have several guys on the practice squad that could take his spot, because I think he was destined to become a #3 now that Lockett is here. If PRich can stay healthy and Kevin Smith/Kasen someone could fill his spot. I of course keep wanting the tall WR – but we have a hard time finding that guy.
I don’t want to sound like a jerk and say that’s good, but:
1. Good for him. Sure he’s worked hard, I’ve always thought people were too hard on him, he’s had a knack for the big play even in college (and the frustrating drop from time to time); and
2. If there’s one thing this WR class DOES seem to have, it’s Kearse types.
Kearse is probably one of the more easily replaceable “top” FAs we have. hes a 3rd/4th WR. Depending on his price I can see him leaving and the hawks just go and get a mid round WR. got Lock,Baldwin and possibly Prich..depends on if he can stay on the field.
Kearse is one of those guys who seems easy to replace based on his athletic measurables. But, that is just a different version of the “pedestrian” argument. Kearse is a plus run blocker and he was one of the top-ten most efficient receivers in the entire NFL last year based on catch/target ratio. He also has developed great chemistry with Wilson over several years and seems to rise in big games.
He is a #3 now with the emergence of Lockett. If he gets a big contract, you “give him a hug and wish him the best” as Schneider says. But, you aren’t doing thorough analysis if you think that the franchise career post-season TD leader, who is in the prime of his career, will be easy to replace.
Rob, what do you think of Cal RB Daniel Lasco?
Seems like he’d be a really nice 3rd down back too add for ‘competition’ with Thomas Rawls that PC/JS mentioned. Definetly ticks off the lower body explosiveness they like.
He was hurt this year, but last year was insanelty productive. He’s had fumble isues in the past, isn’t exactly a ‘thumper,’ but a high upside, solid back with good pass protection and receiving skills.
And I do agree that currently Dixon and Prosise are the best fits.
Love Dixon’s grit, chip on shoulder, and his style says ‘I want it more than you.’
I just wonder if Lasco is more athlete than physical, take-it-to-em type they’ve generally gone for. They seem to like physicality + athleticism.
I think Prosise would be a great compliment to Rawls and as a 3rd down receiving option. He looked smooth catching the ball. I wonder how he is in blitz pick up. If he is willing he would be a nice 3-4th round option IMO.
He’s actually very good in pass protection.
If you go back and watch his tape, notice how he initiates the contact, steps up into or at the LOS instead of letting the defender get into him, lose his leverage, and drive him backwards.
He ‘catches’ the defender a bit, but that kind of technique can be cleaned up with good coaching.
“notice how he initiates the contact, steps up into or at the LOS instead of letting the defender get into him, lose his leverage, and drive him backwards.
He ‘catches’ the defender a bit, but that kind of technique can be cleaned up with good coaching.”
Does that mean he’s inconsistent? To me, you’re saying in that last line that he does exactly what you’d just said he doesn’t do. I guess you could mean that everything is good, but there’s usually a let-up right at the moment of impact, basically pulling his punch. Or maybe that he’s missing the hand use part of blocking technique.
Wendell Smallwood RB WV is an intriguing guy to me. I know it may not be the highest priority, but he had a nice combine so I went to look for some tape. Pretty good balance a nice burst. If SEA doesn’t go for one of the heavy hitters like Henry or Dixon, might be worth a look. Coming from a spread offense, so that always makes me a bit nervous because it gives so much space to make them look good. He’s a day 3 guy, but might be a nice counter to Rawls possibly as the 3rd down back – has nice hands.
I’d rather focus on OL/DL maybe a special WR and then look at depth for CB/S/LB and pick up a RB lower than taking one too early. CMike is still around and he’s probably about the same as any of the guys who are there in the 2-4th round RBs.
A few of the WR are interesting, but again, if you’re not getting one of the top WRs, I wonder if we have guys who can do the same thing?
See I would love Neal as the pick. I just hope he is still there. The pick I would be against is Deion Jones in the first frame. A S, even if he plays a hybrid position for the first few seasons, is a high impact position. If he can be similar to Buchannon or if we are REALLY fortunate, like LeRoy Butler, then it will be a massive boon to the defense. A WILL is a day 2 selection for me tops. Period. Round 3 unless he is great in pass coverage or really will be solid in blitz packages. We don’t blitz a ton, so give me the natural S with plus aggression. I would love it if Neal was on the board for us
Rob do you think the fact that Shon Coleman could not workout out at Combine and his pro day might push him into the 2nd round?
Possibly.
I gotta think if Coleman is still available at 26 the Hawks pull the trigger. Even if they sign Okung to a short term contract they will need a T for the future. He is my favorite realistic OT option.
Coleman also makes sense even if they sign Okung because Coleman could start at LG as a rookie.
Rob what do you think of Deiondre Hall as a seahawk he has the measurable they love, and I have seen him going to the seahawks in other mocks already.
I plan to look at him depending on how he performs on Monday.
First thing I thought after seeing those measurements was Seahawks RCB. Similar in height weight to Byron Maxwell but with longer arms, 33.5 vs 34.5 inches. Hall can scratch his knees while standing straight up. I watched game tape of him vs Wentz’s team and he was huge in run support. He also played press man coverage really well. Hall’s a Seahawks, Jaguar, Faclon or Raider after the draft.
Just watched two of his games. He is a very eager run blocker, sheds well and closes on the plays. He is also aggressive when pressing/jamming near the LOS.
However, he shows all the drawbacks of a tall CB. Slow recovery when beaten to the inside or double moves, stop-start etc., tight hips, poor mirroring etc. (same issues that Sherman was said to face…)
He can either be great in a year or another bust but he will not be on the field this year….
It seems more and more likely that the Seahawks try and drop back. I can see them moving down to 35-45 range and then picking up the best OL/DL/LB option they have on their board. Unless they have a guy available at 26 that they “have” to get.
I understand this idea, but I can;t seem to find a partner and a player someone would want to jump into the first round and draft. Cook might be the only guy who could merit such a jump, but the teams that might be looking at him would have to give up too much to make the draft picks trade work.
Agree with Nick. Bottom of rd. 1 is a notoriously tough spot. Unless they take a “safe pick” or do a slight reach for someone projected at the top of rd. 2.
What matters is that they don’t miss. I don’t like the idea of a BPA luxury pick at #26.
Did Lawler’s stock drop at all after today? Any possibility that we could draft him in the 4th round now, or do you think his performance took him off of Seattle’s radar?
I don’t think he improved his stock that’s for sure. Not a great vertical, broad or forty.
For a drafted player to make an impact, they have to play.
A drafted player will play if he is both talented enough, and there is an open starting position.
In general, the higher the draft pick, the better the player, sooner or later.
Therefore, the first pick will likely be for a starting-caliber player at a position they can start. As a negative example, there is no reason to draft the best QB in this class and have them sit behind Wilson, especially if it costs the first pick.
Each team has three limiting factors in team-building: draft capital, cap space, roster spots.
In the case of Henry, it seems redundant to spend a first round draft pick at a position where they already have a very good starter (at times the best RB last year) that cost almost nothing in draft capital and cap space. Backed up by a cheap guy whose draft capital is already sunk (2nd round pick, and ironically providing a 7th round pick this year).
In the case of Neal, it seems odd to spend the draft capital on a player without at starting position. Whereas someone like Deion Jones could start right away and play every down.
In the case of the O-and-D lines, there is always room to start a talented player, so it wouldn’t surprise any of us if significant draft capital was spent this year on the lines.
TE? No. RB? Not in the early rounds. WR? Not in the early rounds. FS/SS? Not in the early rounds. CB? perhaps, but doubtful. QB? not in the early rounds.
This leaves LB, O/D line (including pass rusher) in the first 2-3 picks. At least as near as I can tell. Anything else would be pure luxury.
I agree, but with the Kam stuff (not only holding out, but really 1 year left and no big penalty to cut), I think a player like Neal could that LB/S role like DB in Arizona.
I see a lot of 2nd day picks especially in areas of need (OL/DL) for the Hawks to take advantage of.
“In the case of Neal, it seems odd to spend the draft capital on a player without at starting position. Whereas someone like Deion Jones could start right away and play every down.”
We’ve clearly highlighted the position he would play in each of the pieces discussing Neal. The same position as Deone Bucannon in Arizona and Mark Barron for the Rams.
“It seems redundant to spend a first round draft pick at a position where they already have a very good starter (at times the best RB last year) that cost almost nothing in draft capital and cap space.”
I don’t think they’ll spend a first round pick on a running back. However, we need to get out of our heads that the Seahawks aren’t going to invest in the RB position just because they have Rawls. This is a team that spent their first pick in the 2013 draft on a #3 running back. The running game is the single greatest identity for this team. Carroll has clearly stated that.
When you have Marshawn Lynch you can use a bell cow at RB. Even then they backed him up with a 4th and 2nd rounder and spent a 6th rounder on Ware too. It’s highly unlikely they’re going to treat Rawls the same way they did Marshawn. And while he will undoubtedly get a lot of the work load — this almost certainly will not be a one man show going forward. I don’t think they’d have any qualms spending a high pick on a supporting back because that is how important the run game is to this offense. Todd Gurley was the #1 player on their board last year.
I guess I missed the material on what position Neal would play. Jones seems straight forward, every down LB. Would Neal be the 3rd LB every down as well? If so, great. If he can be a regular starter without displacing existing starters (Kam/McCray[?], Thomas, Wagner, Wright) then great.
As for RB, I completely agree that they won’t stand pat with Rawls/Michaels. No doubt (IMO) that they draft one in the mid-rounds, a quality player and not just a late-round flyer. Just don’t think they will impact their current bounty (draft capital wise) with a first round pick at the position, as tempting as someone like Henry would be. Seattle already has an RB that successfully made the transition to the NFL. While it’s likely that Henry will as well, it’s not guaranteed, increasing the risk/cost.
Deone Bucannon played 95% of Arizona’s defensive snaps in 2015. Mark Barron had over 100 tackles for the Rams (as did Bucannon for the Cards).
For more on the role read this: http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2016/01/01/deone-bucannon-thriving-moneybacker-cardinals/78179588/
As for the RB’s — they’re just going to let the board dictate what they do. We can’t look at a class and say, ‘take a certain position in the middle rounds because that is value’. If you can fill more needs and get the players you want going RB first and then OL/DL then you have to consider it. The talent has to dictate what they do. I doubt they draft Henry in R1 but Seattle would probably do it without a second thought if they think Henry is the unique specimen that can help keep their running game at the top.
Wouldn’t using such a backer necessitate a change in defensive approach for the Seahawks, something you have insisted wouldn’t happen?
No. Mike Morgan, who is 226lbs, replaced Irvin a ton at the end of the season. Malcolm Smith replaced Irvin in 2013 and became the starter. Smith is 225lbs.
You don’t have to change anything.
Here’s a quote from the piece I sent to you:
“Linebackers closer to Bucannon’s size may be more in vogue. With the passing game favored more and more each year, Hulk-sized linebackers have been phased out in favor of something closer to Captain America.
“(We were) recruiting safeties to play linebacker because you had to do two things: you had to tackle in space and you had to align in space,” Bettcher said. “You go play Seattle, your linebackers have to align in space and play in space quite a bit.”
This is the way the game has gone and Seattle has already been ahead of the curve with their use of lighter, more athletic LB’s.
Just a suggestion here, for a slower time of course, but it might be productive to have a discussion a little more in-depth on details of how these lighter “hybrid” linebackers are used and what it means for the linebackers they play with. Even another level could be fun talking about how offenses attack them and adapt.
As for Henry, I am fighting a bit of a man-crush on the guy. Don’t want to get too excited for a player that my head says is unlikely to be selected by the Seahawks.
Hey you never know… 😉
Any chance that Jatavis Brown could be that sort of guy? He obviously won’t grade out as high as those other guys because of his lack of length, but he seems to fit the bill in many other areas. I couldn’t find any results for him at the regional combine other than his 40 time – anybody have the scoop on the rest of his measurables?
I haven’t studied Brown.
I go back and look at the Neal material.
Okay, I found it, from your earlier piece:
“If you’re thinking about a linebacker/safety for today and a starting strong safety for tomorrow — this could be an option. Like Bucannon in Arizona and Mark Barron with the Rams — you find a way to get the guy on the field.”
Putting Neal in for Irvin at LB in base you give up 50lbs of football player and gain zero (or very little) speed with a player in a new position. Does that work?
As a straight up replacement for Kam, I get it. You still have to replace Irvin in that scenario.
You’re focusing too much on size. This is the way the NFL is going at that position.
Deone Bucannon plays LB for the Cards and is the exact same size as Neal. He played 95% of their snaps (more than any other LB in Arizona) and had +100 tackles. Mark Barron achieved exactly the same in St. Louis. Barron is 2lbs heavier than Neal (so basically 10 minutes on the can).
By the way, Mike Morgan — who weighs 226lbs — came in for Irvin a lot more than people realise at the end of the year. Malcolm Smith, who is 225lbs, replaced Irvin permanently during the Super Bowl run in 2013.
They’ve already gone lighter at that position in the past.
Morgan is still listed at 226lbs, but remember a year or two back he said he had beefed up to about 240. Still wouldn’t rule out them going with a lighter player though.
Also, Jones is only 6 or 7 pounds heavier than Neal. And isn’t near as ferocious of a hitter. If you are asking Jones to be a pure linebacker, thatcis a fool’s errand. He is too small and will never hold up on the point of attack. Neal would be asked to play the exact same position and is an all around better football player than Jones. Jones is irrelevant unless they miss out on Neal and they need to use one of their 3rd rounders.
Jones held up just fine in the SEC.
Arizona runs a 3-4 if I’m not mistaken. It’s easier for Neal to fill that role with such an alignment. A point you made about playing slot or dime coverage is similar to what I would envision his role might be against bigger receivers & TEs.
Personally, I would love to see him at RCB and at dime coverage in the slot for bigger WRs & TEs. He would bring back that run support that was missing since BB’s departure. With Neal in the slot & Kam on the opposite side of the box would be downright lethal for any crossing routes.
That potential brings with it a TOUGH decision. With Coleman you can fill potentially (3) positions, RT/LG/LT.
Neal would sustain that boom if Kam is injured. Inflicting punishment towards others has its consequences.
Free agency will be a contributing factor, for sure. But, I’m going to hold PC & JS to their word about not getting pushed around up front and pick Coleman with their 1st pick. You had him going to Carolina, which I feared would be a landing spot as well.
Depending upon his performance, Neal may be available in the 39-45 range where they could move up to get him. I would go that route for Neal at this point in time. Things could change tomorrow if he nails it. And if Coleman’s Meds cause concern, then Coleman might be the early 2nd to move up for. Tough decision!
The Seahawks use 3-4 personnel to fit in their 4-3. Carroll has talked about this many times.
The Rams also run a 4-3 and use Mark Barron in exactly the same way as Deone Bucannon.
I don’t see Neal getting out of round one.
That’s in passing downs when there in their dime coverage. That’s where Neal could rove the box opposite of Kam.
Arizona starts (4) LBs with DE/NT/DE front with their hands in the dirt. Their blitz packages revolve from that look.
Starting Neal at RCB could get him on the field from the start, and provide the needed physical presence in run support. Then he could drop in the box in dime coverage.
Yes. Agreed 100%. That’s why I think Fackrell will be a great Leo for the Hawks if he can “nail” that 10-yard split tomorrow.
Do you think Fackrell has enough junk in his trunk to play the traditional “Leo”? 6-3 250lbs small enough to bend the edge and stout enough against the run.
He doesn’t appear Clem like from a films perspective. Being 6-5 245 and rangy may be a bit much to ask of Kyler. I’ve seldom seen him in a 3 pt stance. He seems to be handled by the LT because of his upright stance attacking from a 2 pt stance. He might work best in a 3-4 alignment as an OLB. What do you think
Yeah. Fackrell is most definitely different than Clem. I don’t see him getting used 100% like Clem did either. I see him more the way Pete used Matthews at USC.
However, Fackrell isn’t too much lighter than Jeff Lageman was either (Fackrell much more explosive on the field though, imo). Pete coached Lageman and he had a 10 sack season under him, too.
Pete also got 9.5 sacks from an old Rickey Jackson when he was DC in San Fran in ’95. Jackson played Leo for Pete there and he had been strictly a LB his entire career for all those years in New Orleans. The next year, the 49ers (with Pete as DC) got old man Chris Doleman (35 years old) to play Leo. Doleman was a LB coming out of college but was a stud undersized DE in the NFL. Pete got 11 sacks out of Doleman in ’96.
Not saying Pete made those guys good, because they were great players without him, too. I’m just saying Pete is awesome at taking a talented guy and putting him in a good position to succeed. Pete can take more of an undersized guy like Fackrell and use him at Leo (like R. Jackson) or he can take a guy a bit bigger like Clem (Doleman/Lageman) and play him there, too. Pete is awesome with being flexible with players who can help him.
I’m trying to say/prove, that Fackrell will be just fine even if he doesn’t have the body/skills of Clem. Pete has made RDE work his entire career with guys with different skills at this unique position. He’ll play players to their strengths. That’s part of why he’s awesome. Loser coaches will take players and play them and make them do a certain thing because that’s the way they do it without any regard whether or not it’s what is in the best interest of using all talent to the best of their ability.
Let’s see how he does tomorrow. There’s definitely going to be a lot of talent out there!
Exactly. If his 10-yard is bad… then he might be there in the second round. If he nails it though, he’s definitely on the radar for being a 1st round pick.
It’s possible Jordan Jenkins 6-3 259 with 34 1/4″ arms and 11 1/4″ hands just could be that Leo, if his 10 yd split goes well.
If they went with Coleman @ 26, they might go with Jordan if Neal is gone earlier than the spot they trade up for to get him. He also brings a physical presence. Having both would be unreal. Resign Okung, shore up the middle with a Center and LG in mid Rd picks. That would be a scary Defense!
Seattle basically runs a 3-4 too. In terms of personnel the do anyways.
That’s why Fackrell is going to be Clay Matthews for Pete! 🙂
I like it Bobby
USC Clay was not the nfl version of clay that we see today. If I remember right he only had something like 5 sacks. Played predominately on the line in a Cliff Avril like role rushing off the RT side. But even pete said if he knew that clay was going to do what he did he would have played him differently.
As far as Fackrell goes I don’t think the FO will take him in RD 1. I can see them drafting Neal because he can play that hybrid role. Add depth to the safety position, so if kam tries to hold out they can be in a much better position this off season to stand pat and let him hold out all season if he so chooses.
I agree with Rob in that I believe it will be very difficult to trade down. With out one of the top 3 qb’s falling no one will want to jump back into the back half of the first to snatch one. So with that seattle will take the best player available on their board. Now we know they value positions differently than other teams especially in the first, as Rob has pointed out before they will take an exceptionally athlete in the first. Therefore don’t be suprised to find a WR like Fuller or a RB like Henry be the first pick.
Me personally my preference would be LB Jones, S/LB Neal, OL Colemen, OL Martin. Any one of those would fill a need and are IMO the best fits for this team.
I agree with your initial thoughts, Hawksince.
I’d love to see Neal take over a LB spot and keep Kam. The ideal situation. I’m getting to the point where I just want FA to hurry and get here so we’ll get a better idea of what we’ll need.
Really anxious to see the DL tomorrow particularly Sheldon Rankins and Jones. They are my two favorite DT prospects who could develop into 6+ sack 3 down DTs IMO.
Also keep an eye on Ronald Blair I think he is going to have a great day. His 32 reps on BP was pretty awesome and he has good length. I really like his potential and can’t wait to see is 10yd split and vertical.
I’m liking Quinten Jefferson from Maryland. Looking forward to seeing what he does. Not sure why no one is talking about him, constantly gets into the backfield. Seen him get 2 int off hussle and athletic ability ( one a diving 1 handed grab off a deflection ).
Rob is Ronald Blair has a good day tomorrow and shows he is as explosive as he looks on tape do you think he might be a 3rd round option for the Hawks? I see him rated in the 5th or later in most places but I don’t see him getting out of Day #2.
He can get into that range for sure.
If we resign Okung. Then based on what I have seen so far these are the players I like in each round based on availability.
Rd #1 Chris Jones / Sheldon Rankins / Keanu Neal
Rd #2 Shon Coleman / Josh Garnett /Westerman/Adolphus Washington
Rd #3 Nick Martin / Leonte Carroo/ Ronald Blair / Graham Glasgow
Rd #3 Comp Deiondre Hall / Eric Striker /CJ Prosise / Joe Dahl
After all of the Carroo hype this week, I doubt he lasts to our pick 3rd. He’s a mid-2nd rounder, early 3rd kind of guy.
I can see someone in the 60s taking him, maybe even the Patriots, as they need some help at WR.
Teams are gonna have to do their homework on a guy like Carroo.
He’s not a safe bet. And if Seattle would never take a player like this due to the Frank Clark pick last year as some have suggested, would NE after the Aaron Hernandez ordeal?
Think tere’s a decent chance Carroo falls into the late 3rd. Bet he’ll be off some boards because of the red flags. Had a solid combine, but nothing special.
I like your picks, but I’d like them just as much even if Okung leaves. I think Okung is injury-prone and he’ll be overpriced for being a below average-average (according to PFF) LT. The FO just needs to find an inexpensive to mid-price vet Tackle, even if it means moving Gilliam to LT.
I can’t believe there is/was any hype around Hackenberg. Zero downfield passing game at Penn State, mediocre accuracy. For all the talk of how bad his offensive line was, he did little to negate the thought that he wasn’t most of the problem, at least to me. I wouldn’t touch him till round 3.
I still think Auburn WR Ricardo Louis is very ‘Seahawky.’
Like this kid a lot. Freak athlete, size, versatility, grit, passionate. Very high on him.
Stanford WR Devon Cajuste is interesting. Big time possession wideout. Not nearly as stiff as I thought he was.
He was actually better at the combine than I was thinking. He might be a good value pick in the mid rounds of the draft. I’ve always kind of liked him, but in a lackluster WR class…. he is worth a pick.
Surprised me too.
Realky good numbers for his size.
Reminds me of Devin Funchess
I just don’t like the idea of Neal with #26. I’m against any scenarios that limit flexibility from their shots at landing o-line and d-line prospects. Even if they manage to take care of business anyway, I can’t be more than neutral about the idea.
It does seem to me that this board falls in and out of love with guys very quickly and suddenly.
Everyone is “Seahawky”.
How many guys do you think are on Seatle’s board Steele? 20?
Why. Because we don’t talk about the same guys, over and over.
The draft is a fickle thing.
Steele, would you rather we just pick one or two guys and relentlessly bang the drum for them — then call bloody murder when the Seahawks take someone else?
The point of this blog is to create a constant, fresh debate. Look at different options for the Seahawks. Try and identify what they like and discuss. Learn about different options.
Not just say, ‘Well this is the need. Let’s not consider anything else or talk about anything else ever’.
Rob, you’ve probably heard me express a negative opinion on here a few times, but wanted to chime in to say I do enjoy that aspect of your blog and the discussions. I might not think even a very good SS is worth the #26 pick, and I definitely didn’t think Killebrew was worth it even in R2, but these discussions are informative and interesting.
In a way, it causes the discussion to flow and change much like what will happen on draft day.
I”m all for fresh debate and ideas. This board is full of great material, and don’t get the idea that I think otherwise.
But I do find it interesting how your views (Rob) are instantly co-opted. You bang the table on Keanu Neal, and overnight, everyone is a Neal fan. You talk Derrick Henry, suddenly, Derrick Henry is the man.
I am naturally skeptical and hit the brakes at U-turns.
Well, rob has proven to have a good idea as many of “his guys” have been hits in the NFL, of course he isn’t 100% right but if rob likes a guy odds are that guy is a stud. Tldr in rob I trust
I read somewhere that 3800 athletes were available for the 2015 NFL draft – of course way more than half of them didn’t have a prayer. I see your point (kinda) but seriously I don’t understand the complaint. There are so many prospects that people either didn’t know about or haven’t studied them. There’s a lot to like about a lot of these guys. Chances are if these players fit the Hawks scheme, we as readers are gonna love them. Don’t be like my children and argue over something so stupid…please…
I don’t always agree with Rob, but in my 20+ years of following the draft, there isn’t a more informed person on the Seahawks draft strategy and targets. Rob has a track record of being on point, the blog respects his opinion so his takes carry a ton of weight. He’s done big articles on two of my three favorite prospects in the entire draft, Westerman and Neal (Jackson III is the other). Since he talked about them I felt like maybe the Seahawks could actually target them. Watch the guys workout and play, how could anyone not love Keanu Neal or William Jackson III? Rob’s articles often lead people to prospects they don’t know much about, once they watch breakdowns or games, they see what Rob saw.
Steele,
Rob is doing an excellent job of finding and presenting different options, it’s a big part of why we love spending our time here. It is only natural that every option he presents will have many supporters amount the faithful here.
I am all in regarding the Neal pick. I just watched the tape and co-opted eagerly. I also supported the Coleman pick even though i was repeatedly calling for DL first…
I didn’t join the Martin or Henry options and still don’t but i can understand why others might support those picks.
Before FA runs its course and we know what the roster looks like pre draft, it is easy to create many scenarios to support a lot of different picks. Locking on one or two candidates would be boring. Just imagine, a week ago Decker was supposed to be out of reach, now he is a “has been” already. Life is interesting….enjoy it.
There are no U-turns. Who has done a U-turn Steele?
As I said, this will never be a blog where we focus on one guy or one position and just relentlessly go on about it for four months.
I’m with you re OL/DL as w priority
Secondly better to have loved….
Here’s a LG candidate that fits Seattle’s trend of converting college LT’s into LG’s. Athough he was moved from LT to RT.
Texas A&M’s Germain Ifedi. Didn’t realize how good of a combine he had. 36″ inch arms is crazy.
Putting him back on my list.
I really like Ifedi in the 2nd, maybe after trading down. I’d feel good about an OL draft that included Ifedi, McGovern, or Glasgow. Decker may yet fall to #26.
Possible.
I like all those names myself.
Rob. WR ‘Hollywood’ Higgins still on your board or watch-list?
Nah.
Thought I would ask because him and Pitt WR Tyler Boyd are nearly identical.
Can’t see them drafting either. Boyd will make a good player for someone I think.
Oh I know that. I can’t either and didn’t think you would as well.
Just wanted to point out the comp. Thought it was interesting.
I’ve been reading a lot of sites and i still don’t see why we mock anyone other than S. Coleman. Been consistently stated he has some of the best LT tape
His measurements tick the box. Huge need. Done and done.
As someone who has banged the drum for Shon Coleman as much as anyone for the last six months — I can answer that very easily.
If we just keep mocking the same player to the Seahawks over and over again, what are we going to talk about?
We owe it to ourselves not to limit ourselves to one guy or even one position.
True
I’m some cases you banged it so hard they can’t hear anything else ex-ante 🙂
Seriously love how you defend each new possible pick so justifiably well
In some cases ….
Good honest answer!
What if Seattle doesn’t pick Coleman? What they never get a chance to? What if someone better than Coleman falls to them? This blog, to me anyway, is more about the discussion than it is about slotting a guy in and calling it a day. I guarantee you the Seahawks are not slotting Coleman in, I guarantee you they’re looking at every possibility.
Exactly right. Explore all possibilities. The debate is fun and it is conducted respectfully on this blog.
I have learned so much about so many players I would never have had the chance to scout myself. This blog is also a great resource.
The WRs are not testing anywhere close to last season…
http://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/wr/
Doctson is the only guy who jumps out to me as a worthy #26 pick, if available.
I doubt they even consider him at #26 to be honest.
I tend to agree. The value will not be in drafting a WR early. Other guys will most certainty be better picks and better athletes at the #26 pick. Excited how some of the other numbers for the other position groups look by the end of the weekend (combine).
Well, I was a guy very early who didn’t want anything to do with Corey Coleman, but had an epiphany today. I’ve been worried too much about what I’d do, not what the Seahawks like to do. To me, Coleman is the draft’s Percy Harvin. And since we give up a 1st and a 3rd and all kinds of goodies for the actual Percy Harvin, seems like we’d be interested in giving up #26 for Coleman.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Seahawks didn’t draft a CB this year. Seems like a below average class across the board and we’ve been stocking our practice squad/IR/inactive roster with CBs that better fit the Seahawks mold.
We essentially have 3-4 “rookie” CBs next year:
– Tye Smith
– Mo Seisay
– George Farmer
– Stanley Jean Baptiste
Also have Tharold Simon coming back off IR too.
Agreed.
That’s where am at right now too.
I think if they do, it’ll be a 7th rounder or something.
Wouldn’t shock me if they drafted Georgia WR Malcom Mitchell as a CB.
Yeah I can only see them getting a late round/ UDFA with the measurables and add him to the farm.
Marcus Burley also.
IThese are the combine WRs I like for Seattle-
Sterling Sheppard, Oklahoma (might go too early)
Ricardo Louis, Auburn
Kolby Listenbee, TCU
Trevor Davis, Cal
Marquez North, Tennessee
Jordan Payton, UCLA
Devon Cajuste, Stanford (as a possession type)
Keyarris Garrett, Tulsa (as a possession type)
Charone Peake, Clemson
Josh Doctson, TCU and Will Fuller ND, Baylor’s Corey Coleman I like too, but I can’t see Seattle taking a WR in the 1st.
Kenny Lawler, Cal, I’m not sure about.
Not that Fuller is a 1st rounder at this point. Doubtful.
Add Ohio St WR Michael Thomas to that list.
Thomas could slip in the draft like Lockett and end up being an instant impact receiver.
Lawler and Cajuste might not have the speed Seattle likes.
Like this list V12
Most of these guys are SPARQd up
http://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/wr/
Time to re-review their tape
I will be so pissed if our first picks are not OL.
Our OL was legit trash last year. They only performed well against poor teams. When we played Carolina or anyone with a decent DL, it was a complete disaster.
It is time the Seahawks invest heavily in the OL, i’m talking 2 out the first 4 picks MINIMUM should be OL. Idc if it’s Nick Martin at C first or Shon Coleman, then 2nd round you get Garnett or Westerman or any Guard.
Enough is enough. Hit the OL hard and stop destroying RW. I’m pretty sure they can re-sign at least one of Mebane or Rubin if not both.
Also, why do the guards have to play like every position? WHO CARES?! So does that mean we will not look at someone like Garnett cause he just played Guard? That is ridiculous thinking, and why the OL has stunk up the joint forever….Pick some nasties, who cares if they are a pure guard and get a decent line.
1. What if they sign some proven veteran O-liners in free agency?
2. I suspect the reason they haven’t looked at pure guards is simple — the guys playing guard at college do so for the most part because they aren’t athletic enough (or good enough) to play tackle. So when you jump to the next level and face bigger, stronger, quicker blockers — it’s even more of a challenge. Plus they have strict size ideals at many different positions. We can complain about it — but this way of doing things got Seattle its first title.
I just don’t see them doing that….They have really never invested in OL in free agency. I would love to see them sign a veteran Guard. But even if they do, they need more depth and better players. The Hawks are always putting their resources on the D which is fine. But now is the time to invest in OL in free agency, trade or draft, or any route possible. The line is that bad in my opinion.
I will lose my mind if I see another DL to OL conversion. Enough with that, we don’t have time anymore. If this team is looking to win championships then no more of these draft pick unless it’s round 6-7.
Yeah that makes sense to me. But I feel like that makes them lose out a lot on some good prospects. Like Garnett is a pure guard but he is a considerable upgrade to Britt. I think we can all agree Britt is complete trash.
They did sign Robert Gallery at great expense to play LG and brought in Breno Giacomini as a veteran starter. They also strongly considered Wisniewski and Mathis a year ago. I suspect they would’ve signed both if they had the cap room.
I suspect they’re going to bring in one if not two veteran O-liners. If they want a better performance in 2016 it’s the only answer. More rookies aren’t going to solve that problem. It’d be unfair to expect 2-3 rookies to come in, start right away with your most experienced O-liners being Gilliam and Glowinski. That would be a recipe for disaster.
They also brought in Eric Winston two years ago to compete with Britt as a rookie at right tackle.
Britt is bad, he’s not conplete trash, his run blocking is awesome! I honestly think that the only way we replace Britt is if we find someone who’s just as good at run blocking and better at pass blocking, that might be hard to find.
I’ll be mad if we pick another James Carpenter and let a Clay Matthews or Derrick Brooks pass by because we supposedly didn’t need him as much as someone from a different position.
I have full confidence that we will go into the draft not having a total trash line. They won’t go into the season starting three players on the OL drafted in the first three lines.
I think there’s a good possibility they will take OL, but don’t want to blind ourselves from taking someone who may actually help the overall team more (you can still “reach” in the second round for an OL if you need to).
Don’t take an olineman over a superior player just because he plays oline. That’s how you diminish the overall depth and talent of your team – by reaching for need.
Needs are fluid and change year to year. If an olineman is worth the pick they take him at – great. But take the best player that you can project into a role on your team.
I would be content if the Hawks didn’t reach on an olineman. Id rather they go Dline in the first or trade back if possible. Id love it if Rankins was there but that’s looking less likely.
JS said in a Radio interview after the season that they would not force a pick as that leads to trouble and can miss out on real talent at other positions.
I can see DT or trade back with our first pick
I have the oposite view Tomas. I will be very pissed if they use thier first 2 picks on the OL.
If the right outstanding talent is there when they pick at 26, someone they see as an instant starter like say Coleman, i’ll be very happy with that pick. However, as an overall strategy, i do not agree with rookies helping upgrade the OL. I think that “cohesion” and “consistency” would be better achieved by resigning current members (Okung, Sweezy) and/or adding a veteran G/C.
IMO, If we can keep at least 3 players on the OL playing the same position again and have only one “new” player playing a position he already played before, it would have the best results for 2016.
I also believe that upgrading the OL from “legit trash” to “solid” would yield less result in the W/L column than upgrading the defense from “good” to “elite”. (see SB48, SB50)
Just because you spend an early pick does not guarantee that you will get a good player. Every round has there busts. Look at our previous early Rd picks on the line carp was a borderline bust up to the last year. Moffitt I’d say was a bust. Britt has been a bust IMO to this point.
I do want them to invest in the offensive line but I will not complain if it’s a 3rd and a 5th round pick.
Mark Glowinski was a pure guard drafted last year, it’s not that they will not pick a pure guard but they value versatile lineman on both sides.
No interest in Michael Thomas or is it that he will just go too high?
Peake’s arms measured at 34 inches. Nice. But as much as he interests me I suspect he will go higher than would be worth it for us. Really seems like a year where we will not spend a pick on a WR until late on day 3 or go after an UDFA.
With Baldwin and Lockett as 1 and 2, and with Smith, PR, and Williams (perhaps) fighting it out for #3 we really could be in a much worse position.
Oops – comment was meant to be in response to V12 above
I added Michael Thomas to the list. See above.
Don’t think Seattle will go WR before the end of round 3 or round 4 at the earliest, but if they do, Thomas, Fuller, and Sheppard are who I have my eye on.
Not convinced that Charone Peake is a top 100 talent.
I’ll add 3-4 more names after the pro days too.
How did Malcolm Mitchell do in his workout @ CB? Hawks requested that he run some drills and he obliged. I didn’t hear anything. I checked out one of his interviews describing the changes he has gone through. He really has his head together now.
Being 24 yrs old this summer could contribute to his maturity. His willingness to go to the other side is a good trait to have. Isn’t that the Seahawk way, willing to contribute in whatever way you’re asked? He ran a 4.45 40. He could be another slot DB option for smaller receivers, especially if they lose Lane.
CB’s haven’t performed on field drills yet. They go on Monday.
He ran with the WRs today. I thought it was private drills that he would perform for the Hawks. I don’t think he’s listed with the DB group.
Either way, the only club to request him to flip over says they may see something that others may not. That’s not surprising isn’t it? No stone unturned.
Yeah I was wondering what team it was that asked. He has the arm length that the Hawks like also at 32 7/8″ . He played CB in high school was recruited as a CB to Georgia. But switched in the spring of his freshman year.
Pete knows what he likes at corner. We all have heard that he recruited sherman to SC as a CB.
He wasn’t invited to the combine, but a WR I would look out for in the later rounds is Baylor’s Jay Lee. Pretty sure you mentioned him earlier this month V12. Has some height, has some speed. Has been praised for his blocking. He probably would need to be coached up a little bit due to his limited route tree, but I think he would be a great pickup if Kearse were to leave.
This is what I was refering to:
https://www.seccountry.com/georgia/malcolm-mitchell-will-work-out-as-a-defensive-back-for-one-nfl-team
Mid Combine Mock (Assuming we re-sign Okung / Lane /Rubin)
R1P26 KEANU NEAL FLORIDA
R2 56: DT CHRIS JONES MISSISSIPPI ST
R3:90: G JOSHUA GARNETT STANFORD
R3:98: DE RONALD BLAIR APPALACHIAN ST
R4:125: RB C.J. PROSISE NOTRE DAME
R5 :172: G /Center JOE DAHL WASHINGTON ST
R6 :215: OLB TRAVIS FEENEY WASHINGTON
R7: 223: DT DAVID ONYEMATA MANITOBA
R7 245: WR PAUL MCROBERTS SE MISSOURI ST
Josh Garnett will be long gone by then.
I personally don’t like the idea of a Safety in the 1st. Id rather have Dline or Oline. don’t like the idea of LBs or CBs in this area either.
Im not sure Joe Dahl will be there in the 5th. think hes gone by late 3rd early 4th.
I do like Feeney in the 6th and Chris Jones..if hes there.
Mid Combine Mock (Sign Vet Guard or Center, Lane, Rubin) No Okung
R1:26: OT SHON COLEMAN AUBURN
R2 56: DT CHRIS JONES MISSISSIPPI STATE
R3 90: G CHRISTIAN WESTERMAN ARIZONA STATE
R3:98: OLB ERIC STRIKER OKLAHOMA
R4 125: DE RONALD BLAIR APPALACHIAN STATE
R5:172: WR MARQUEZ NORTH TENNESSEE
R6: 215: OT FAHN COOPER OLE MISS
R7: 223: RB KEITH MARSHALL GEORGIA
R7: 245:OLB JATAVIS BROWN AKRON
Will fuller is going to be taken in the first round.
Love watching Joshua Garnett, lately. If we come away with him in the first, BPA in second and Glasgow / Blair III in the third will be extremely happy.
Current ourlads ranking for OLB in 2016 draft. Some familiar names
Outside Linebackers
1 Jaylon Smith Notre Dame
2 Leonard Floyd Georgia
3 Noah Spence Eastern Kentucky
4 Darron Lee Ohio State
5 Jordan Jenkins Georgia
6 Deion Jones LSU
7 Kyler Fackrell Utah State
8 Eric Striker Oklahoma
9 Joe Schobert Wisconsin
10 James Cowser Southern Utah
A lot of folks want Garnett and I really like the kid/attitude but I doubt we take him at 26 and he likely won’t be there at our pick in R2 with seemingly everyone in the league looking for OL help. Anyone think Le’Raven Clark could play LG and fits our LG profile if say Garnett is gone at 56 and we resign Okung to a short-ish deal? Clark clicks the unique traits box and could develop into a future LT as some have suggested, but could he be a decent LG in year one?
Draft Glasgow or Westerman in the 3rd and let that guy compete with either Lewis or Glowinski. They’re not going to build Rome in a day, but I suspect they resign Okung, let Gilliam continue to develop and get comfortable at RT and add some talent/nasty to the interior.
Interior OL is our biggest weakness. We weren’t 0-4 v CAR and STL, but 0-4 v Short and Donald IMO.
I’m all over Neal at 26 but PIT at 25 has severe secondary issues and might view Neal as the next Polumanu.
Rob, is Robert Nkemdiche still considered to be a first round pick after his combine interviews? I thought his tape showed that he is an awesome 3 tech.
I dont think he goes in round 1, he might actually drop into the third (if he did he wouldn’t last long) he didn’t help himself in interviews and threw Laremy Tunsil under the bus. Jeopardizing his teamate/ friend’s chances of going #1 overall tells me he’s selfish and not a team player. I wouldn’t draft him at all personally.
I think Tunsil will be fine. Likely #1 pick. He will not make it out of top 3 at the very worst.
Tunsil will be OK, but Nkemdiche showed himself to be a dog and not a team man.
Anyone who uses a 1st round pick on him is desperate.
I wouldn’t touch him in R1.
Tomorrow is the day I’m most excited for!
I found this interesting
Draft o-liners name pass rushers
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/2/27/11120190/nfl-combine-2016-linemen-testing-40-times-interviews-workouts?_ga=1.31257725.399045224.1456022667
If Jaylon Smith does fall to Day Three, the Seahawks have to take a shot right?
I take him with he 3rd round comp pick. We’ve whiffed on bums before you gotta take a swing on Jaylon Smith!
That’s my thinking. How often do you get a chance to add a guy like that? If he doesn’t pan out, well, shit happens. But if he does…
If he was still around in the 6th or 7th round, which is highly unlikely, then take a shot. With multiple teams passing on him / red carding his medical checkout of his knee….. unfortunately, he may never play in the NFL. I wouldn’t risk a 3rd rounder on him, since you would be missing out on at least 1 year of a player that can start on the team at OL or DL for example, which are immediate/critical needs for the team.
He was a top 5 draft pick, prior to the injury. Such a huge risk, just like Lattimore (for the 49ers) a few years previously.
Id do a 5th on him at the latest. From what it sounds like he has the same injury as Marcus Lattimore and we know where hes at now.
spending a 3rd round comp on him is very risky and not a real value for him. Talent is definitely there but don’t know if he will play again.
I can’t help myself. I keep thinking about Keyarris Garrett. There is something addictive about this guy. Great size and reasonable speed plus those amazing superglue hands.
I know it is not high on our list of needs. Getting Dixon or Prosise is probably more important but i keep finding myself looking for combinations that will enable us to get this guy.
He is growing on me like Kelce did why back then….
I like Garret a lot and Paul Mcroberts too (probably available in later rounds than Garret).
Anyone hear that a unnamed team asked Malcolm Mitchell (WR) to run the CB drils. I wonder if it was the seahawks. He was a corner until UGA asked if he wanted to play WR. He has the arm length. Might be a good nickel corner. Here is his combine numbers according to nfl.com
HT: 5’11” WT: 194LBS.
POSITION: WR
SCHOOL: Georgia
ARM LENGTH: 32 7/8″
HANDS: 10 3/8″
40 YARD DASH: 4.45 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 15 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 36.0 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 129.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 6.94 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.34 SEC
After further looking into malcom I like this young man. He has his red flag for past injuries and he is 24, but he has a really good head on his shoulders. He is a published children’s author.
I could see taking a late 3rd round pick on him especially if they like what they see from a possible switch back to db.
I have him @ 172 the 5th Rd comp pick.
It’s obvious which team would delve into converting DBs from a WR. The Hawks should hold a patent on it by now.
I was more curious of the outcome. Malcolm seems to have his life in order. He could be a good Pro with his willing attitude.
Some good interesting comments. It’s going to be eyeball’s glued to the tube today. Can’t wait to see the 10 yard split on Yannick today, my sleeper pick for the Hawks.