According to NE Patriots Draft the Seahawks would own the 11th overall pick after today’s loss to the Redskins. At 4-7, Seattle shares the same record as Washington who would pick 7th. Miami – the other big rival in the hunt for quarterbacks – would pick 6th overall with a 3-8 record. One possible highlight is Carolina picking just in front of the Dolphins – realistically they could be viable trade partners for any team wishing to jump ahead of the pack. Victory today and the Seahawks would’ve been picking either 14th or 15th overall.
I’ll be updating my mock draft this week to reflect the new draft order. Today’s victory for Washington, sending them behind Miami, could actually mix things up significantly. Could it pave the way for the Seahawks to get their quarterback after all?
JS & PC need to do whatever it takes to get a franchise QB as today was just another example of Tjax being Tjax…
If we have the same record as the Redskins and the Redskins beat us based on head to head wouldnt we pick in front of them? Same for us vs the Browns.
It’s determined purely on strength of schedule unfortunately, not head-to-head records. If strength of schedule is the same, then it goes to division and conference tie-breakers, then a coin flip.
I wouldn’t put Kansas City out of the picture of QB if they’re close to top10, they could either dump Cassel (though costly) or keep him and draft a replacement if their near. Them picking up Orton is pretty strong indicator that they’re not all that happy with Cassel and could wash their hands clean if a Barkley/Luck/Griffin3 is within reach.
not saying hes the answer but doesnt KC have Stanzi? I havent heard much about him so I dont know, just a thought though.
Think we don’t win more than 2 games. If we stay in top 10, we should have opportunity to get barkley or rgIII. We have to hope miami, cleveland, kc and washington win a few more games.
With Az, Stl, Philly still on our schedule, our SOS is surely to drop and I could see us moving at or near the top of these tiebreakers…
We also really need the Rams to win another game… If they are sitting at #2, they assuredly would take the big trade down and likely not with us…
Cleveland Browns still have to play the Ravens twice and the Steelers twice in December. So they will likely end up with a higher draft position than they do now, and get a good shot at Barkley.
I’ve read places that we have one of the toughest SOS in the league – so does that mean we would jump the teams with identical records?
Darnell, I found this and it might explain why we would pick higher than the Skins.
Strength of schedule, which is the combined win-loss record for all 16 of the team’s opponents in the previous season (ties count as a half win and half loss). The team with the lower strength of schedule (i.e. their opponents compiled fewer wins) is granted the earlier pick in round one.
Yeah the team with the lower Strength of Schedule get the higher picks as they got the same record whilst playing against worse teams. I didn’t understand it at first but once I started thinking about it, it kind of makes sense if you win less games against bad teams than another team does against better teams in theory they are better.
Rob, I am curious about some of the potential free agent QBs at the end of the season and how that might effect the Seahawks going forward. I have heard that some people really like Flynn out of Green Bay and if Caleb Hanie plays well someone might take a flyer on him as well. What do you think? Is there anyone else out there that might fall into this category. Does the success Matt Moore is having at least make the Dolphins consider drafting someone beside a QB in the first round and possibly find someone in the second and hope for another Andy Dalton scenario. I could certainly see them going for someone like Trent Richardson in the first or Kalil if he is still on the board when they pick, the same with the Redskins.
Hey Vway,
I think that’s a bit like trying to use a band-aid to mend a broken leg. The Seahawks are not going to find the answer with players like Hanie and Flynn, I remember watching Flynn at LSU and there’s a reason why a BCS Champion QB playing for a huge programme like that still went through virtually the entire draft. Could Miami avoid quarterbacks? I wouldn’t rule it out, especially if they really like a player such as Richardson. Even so, they know they need a QB and Moore might be doing OK now, but the Dolphins surely don’t see him as the future. He has a tenuous connection to Tony Sparanno who will probably be fired in the off season, and new regimes often mean new quarterbacks.
I would say teams could target a Dolton type move, IF I could see a player likely to go in that range. Landry Jones could, but he’s high profile enough that teams passing on him in R1 probably aren’t interested at the top of round two. Tannehill just isn’t worth a high pick in my eyes, he’s had a poor season overall.
Scheme could be a decider. Mike Shanahan knows what he wants. He passed on Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton etc last year. He won’t just take any quarterback. That could open the door for Seattle – who after all ranked Gabbert #1 on their QB board last year, a clear difference of opinion to Shanahan and the Redskins.
With 5 games remaining, anything can happen as so many of the 4-7 teams play one another and Miami at 3-8 looks to have a shot at 6 W’s. Mark me down for Hawks drafting in the #8 slot.
Why would we give up the farm for Barkley, who is a dynamite college QB, when we need more pieces and can hopefully draft RG3. Moving up to #2 would take a couple of 1’s and a 2,3,4 combination. I’d rather take RG3 and be able to add another CB and another pass rusher than give away so much to move for Barkley.
Did anyone analyze the RG3 Baylor vs Oklahoma tape? I didn’t see it so I thought I’d pass on a few notable plays for your review. This kid isn’t as refined as Barkley but when it comes to athletic ability to make plays, effortless throwing arm strength that shows touch, his running ability as he keeps his head up looking downfield are amazing and aren’t getting the necessary “man crush love” that Barkley is getting.
I see more NFL upside to RG3.
RG3 looks to be under pressure quite often in this OU game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txEtv2cJS90&NR=1
0:23 RG3 is being rushed by a blitzing stunt, gets drilled but throws an effortless frozen rope to the sidelines. That is Marino or Moon flick of the wrist and bam, ball is on the money. Beauty.
2:43 Under pressure again, RG3 drills Wright with a perfect slight in stride.
3:07 Shows the touch on the TD to Reece.
4:30 When RG3 makes the decision to throw, the ball is shot out of a cannon. Look at how easy he zips in this pass.
4:48 RG3 splits the OU defenders with a perfectly placed TD pass that Williams drips. You want zip, you’ll get it, touch? no problem.
7:03 Shows his uncanny escapability and athleticism to avoid a siege of OU defenders and somehow completes a pass along the sidelines.
7:18 Throws another perfect pass to Williams on a post while Williams is getting mugged.
8:03 RG3 hits Sampson on a nice crossing route in stride. Everything RG3 does looks easy and this is an OU defense with ballers.
Let’s look at a few plays when RG3 moves outside the pocket and does he want to run first or does he keep his eyes downfield?
9:10 Look at how RG3 keeps his eyes downfield and arm ready to throw.
9:27 RG3 is on the move but his eyes are again, looking downfield, his arm is cocked and ready to release at a moments notice.
Does it get any better than this play with seconds left in a 38-38 game?
10:33 RG3 moves around the pocket, has the instincts to know where the LOS is at, slows as he’s looking downfield to make a play with his arm and then finds Williams in the end zone between 2 – OU defenders for the game winner with 8 ticks left.
Are you kidding me?
Why would the Hawks give up the farm to move up for Barkley when you can stand pat, have a 90% shot at RG3 and add another CB, pass rusher and have your 2013 #1 pick?
Only a foolish front office would make that trade.
Tom,
I appreciate the insight, but are you capable of posting a comment without making a negative remark about Matt Barkley?
We had Gabbert #1 on our board last year? Wow, he’s looked terrible this year.
Rob,
I’m sorry if you read something in my 2 posts above that you interpreted as negative about Barkley. I’m a bit surprised that’s what you took from those which were about RG3 and what he offers the Hawks at an estimated pick #8.
I’m not here to argue with you and only to support your blogs with some pretty solid game tape analysis of QB prospects for your readers.
What did I say about Matt Barkley? Let’s review.
“Barkley is a dynamite college QB…”
“the kid (RG3) isn’t as refined as Barkley…”
Then the only other Barkley references is why would the Hawks give up the farm when we have plenty of needs (pass rusher & CB) and could select RG3 plus keep our draft picks for other need areas.
If anything, I gave 2 sentences of “Barkley love” and said NOTHING negative about Matt, absolutely NOTHING.
Are you sure you read my 2 comments above about RG3 and not trading up for Barkley correctly or could you be just a bit sensitive that I could even think RG3 and our 2013 #1, 2012 #2-#3-#4 would be a better option?
I hope you see the value in my dissecting of the RG3 vs OU tape as beneficial for your site as I take from the value in your dissecting of prospects.
Thanks!
I just thought this, “Why would the Hawks give up the farm to move up for Barkley when you can stand pat, have a 90% shot at RG3 and add another CB, pass rusher and have your 2013 #1 pick? Only a foolish front office would make that trade.” was a bit unnecessary and draws attention away from the rest of the piece. You’ve been very vocal about Barkley, it’d be nice to see a piece of analysis where you don’t mention him.
Tom did you ever consider the Hawks very well may have to trade up just to get RG3? Let’s be honest, you’ve been on this fence with Barkley and your opinion changes daily. One minute he’s extremely average, the next he’s dynamite. Why is RG3 a better prospect to Barkley? He throws deeper passes more often and can run? Last I checked, in the NFL you are given 1st and 10 yards to go. Barkley would be a perfect fit for this system.
Sorry, I don’t think the Hawks need a more polished and smarter version of Mike Vick under center.
Rob,
I’m sorry you took that as a negative remark about Barkley as it was supposed to be a positive view about RG3’s skills and keeping our draft selections than anything negative about Matt.
It’s just an opinion that moving up from lets say #8 to #2 for Barkley would be a foolish front office move but that’s not negative about Barkley as I’ve said plenty of times that I like Matt but negative about the front office to consider that.
With seemingly less Qb trade demand in 2004, the G-men gave up a 2004 – 3rd rounder which was Kaeding, a 2005 – 1st rounder that turned out to be Shawne Merriman and a 2005 – 5th rounder in what turned out to be a swap of picks #1 and #4 in 2004. That is 3 spots upward.
When you start talking about where the Hawks will be drafting in 2012 (around 7 – 11) to move up to #2 for Barkley could easily be our 2013 #1 selection and our 2012 2nd, 2012 3rd and 2012 4th and that’s at a minimum based on projected market conditions and low salary cap hit to move up to #2.
It may be an unnecessary opinion in your view but it’s insight that your readers should be aware of when talking trade up.
Sorry you took it the wrong way. Peace out!
Hmm. Didn’t that QB the Giants drafted lead them to a SB title? As well as numerous playoff appearances, Tom?
Small price to pay for a SB title and 4 consecutive playoff appearances.
I think we have a good foundation that this front office built, we have depth everywhere, excluding QB. Ask this, is this offense better than last year’s? I say no. Now put TJack in backup role duties, insert Barkley and this team looks real good on paper:
Sidney Rice (25yr) WR
Mike Williams (27) WR
Doug Baldwin (23) WR
Zach Miller (25) TE
Marshawn Lynch (25) HB
Mike Robinson (28) FB
Draft yourself a complete and game1-ready QB, this offense is gonna hurt (and surprise) some people. WE HAVE THE 3RD YOUNGEST TEAM, remember that. I wouldn’t care if we don’t draft another single person this year if we were to get Barkley. Bring the entire team back for all I care…
I think that Tom brings up a pretty valid concern about trading up for Barkley versus staying put and drafting RG3. If, and this is a big if, we are even able to trade up for Barkley what would we lose out on? I am in agreement with Kip Earlywine about drafting a RB the first couple days(although I would like to see us do that AND resign Lynch for an epic 1-2 punch) and the trade up for Barkley would most likely lead to no Chris Polk. Who knows who we will have to pass up in future drafts(think about the Giants pass rush if they would have had Merriman). Now, we might need to trade up even to nab RG3 but you gotta think that there is a decent shot of staying put and getting him(especially if the Colts release Manning and either the Phins or Skins grab him).
Hey Tom, no need to apologise. All views welcome and appreciated. I’m a Griffin fan, but I think the big difference for me is Barkley can start quickly and not hold the team back. While Griffin’s upside may be higher, his floor is also much lower and he needs much more time to prepare to start. If this team is going to max out it’s potential, it can’t be waiting two years for a QB to be ‘ready’. That’s not to say I’m against drafting Robert Griffin, but I do think there’s a benefit to drafting Barkley and being aggressive doing so.
While with injuries, you can never have too much depth at DB, I am quite pleased with the way our corners have played this year. Browner has absolutely shattered my expectations of what I believed a former CFL player can accomplish. Although he does commit the occasional pass interference, he really presses well and handles man coverage very consistently. And Sherman is a gem. So another DL or LB to rush passer would be welcome, that’s true. But I believe that we could keep our 3rd and 4th for Barkley, we give up our 1st this year and next, our 2nd, and one or both of our 6th round picks and that sounds like a possibility. It’s no sure thing, but teams place higher value on picks than established players. So we can add Nick Perry in the 3rd, and get Brandon Boykins or maybe TJ McDonald in the 4th. Plus I still believe that we will sign Asante Samuel in the offseason, as we almost traded for him last year. There’s our shutdown corner. Also, we could easily nab David Wilson in a late round if we choose not to go defense. I just see that a trade up for Seattle won’t necessarily be as drastic as at first glance, and there are many free agent options out there, too.
Jarhead we are not going to get Asante Samuel as he does fit Pete Carroll’s ideal cornerback. (Big, physical, man press coverage badass)
I really would like Nick Perry in the 3rd round though.
In determining draft order, why look at the Strength-of-Schedule of the entire season, when its wins and losses haven’t been factored in yet? If you look at just the strength-of-schedule of games already played this season, the order I get is:
1. Colts (0-11, SOS 62 wins)
2. Rams (2-9, 64)
3. Vikings (2-9, 69)
4. Panthers (3-8, 59)
5. Dolphins (3-8, 62)
6. Jaguars (3-8, 66)
7. Cardinals (4-7, 52)
8t. Chiefs (4-7, 54)
8t. Redskins (4-7, 54)
10. Browns (4-7, 56)
11. Chargers (4-7, 64)
12. Eagles (4-7, 65)
13. Seahawks (4-7, 66)
14. Buccaneers (4-7, 73)
15. Bills (5-6, 62)
16. Giants (6-5, 55)
17. Titans (6-5, 58)
18. Jets (6-5, 64)
19. Broncos (6-5, 66)
20. Falcons (7-4, 56)
21. Cowboys (7-4, 56)
22. Bengals (7-4, 57)
23. Raiders (7-4, 60)
24. Bears (7-4, 64)
25. Lions (7-4, 67)
26. Texans (8-3, 54)
27. Saints (8-3, 55)
28. Steelers (8-3, 60)
29. Patriots (8-3, 60)
30. Ravens (8-3, 65)
31. 49ers (9-2, 59)
32. Packers (11-0, 52)
If the draft were truly held TODAY, Seattle won’t draft right close to the middle. A full eight teams (1/4 of the entire league) are 4-7, and Seattle has the 2nd-highest SOS of that group.
Yah i dont see us going for Samuel either, hes too small for us to go after.
I guess it would depend on how much he wants but i dont see it happening.
i think we need another CB jus for depth but they can be picked late i believe.
a QB in the 1st and depending how many or which picks we traded to move up i think a DE or DT in the 2nd then maybe CBs and LBs in later rounds.
although we do have Clinton McDonald already and i think he is gonna be pretty good pass rushing DT, hes only 24 so i think he still has time.
trust in Pete and John.
and hell bring up Taua from the PS.
I agree with David on this one Pete has a pretty good record of finding corners in the latter rounds, and I am still hoping that WT3rd can turn into something special. Overall I think we definitely need to be aggressive the chance of getting a talent like that of Barkley needs to be taken. Although if PC and Schneider decide that they thing RG3 is there guy then I have no problem with that and for someone reason I can still see Jackson starting next year no matter who we draft.
Colin,
I have no idea what you’re interpreting from my posts and my dissecting of game tape but I’ve never said as you quoted that Matt’s “extremely average” and I’ve never been on any fence, so yes, let’s be honest.
Prior to the Oregon game, I’ve said that I didn’t like USC’s offense and how Barkley is just a game manager or point guard QB which was exemplified by being a top 35 Qb but having a worst 7.5 yards per pass attempt despite completing 67%.
I’ve compared his 6’2″ size, pump fakes and throws to Mark Sanchez at USC.
I dissected tape along the way and specifically the Colorado and UW contests which you didn’t comment and his middle of the field anticipatory stick throws were absent and his poorest throws occurred there.
I always said I like him but don’t love him, he’s an elite college QB and he has excellent intangibles and is NFL ready for the right offense.
I think you’ve gotten confused or misinterpreted that because I don’t have 100% love for Barkley or would make the trade up to the 2 slot that I believe he’s extremely average or am on the fence.
Just like Rob has improved his rating on Coples as the season has progressed, I’ve been more impressed with Barkley’s last 2 contests because he threw 2 of those middle of the field anticipatory stick throws against Oregon and 1 was in between 4 Oregon defenders.
Players move up and down my draft prospect board on the full body of work. While I had Barkley as a #10 prospect prior to the Oregon contest, he’s delivered the past 2 weeks and is now #2 on my prospect list. That isn’t changing opinions daily. He showed some game I hadn’t seen after dissecting previous tape and gets bumped up accordingly.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I said Barkley was extremely average or have been on the fence. Please try to focus on what I’m actually typing and not interpreting what you think is being written. Thanks!
Jar,
It doesn’t take big compensation to move into the 5 or 6 draft slot, but when you want to move into the top 3, it almost jumps exponentially. Assume we’re at #8 and want to get to #2 for Matt, there is no chance we’d have our 2012 – 3rd or 4th round selections. It would easily take 2013’s #1 and 2012’s 2nd / 3rd / 4th or we keep a 2012 3rd and substitute a 2013 – 2nd.
In 2010, when the Eagles jumped from #24 to #13 and when I thought they were going to take Earl Thomas, it cost the Eagles two – 2010 3rd rounders and a swap of 1’s.
Last year, Atlanta jumped up pretty high from 26 to 6 to get Jones and it took their 2011 and 2012 – 1st rounders, a 2011 2nd and a 2011 and 2012 – 4th rounder.
Jimmy Johnson constructed a draft value chart in the early 1990’s and while it’s not followed to a T, it’s still often used as a guide for moving around the draft board.
Going from #8 to #2 would take the farm and with our needs and potentially RG3 there, I’d rather keep the 2013 – #1 and the 3 other picks necessary to move up to #2 and hang at #8, assuming that’s where we’re at. If we end up at #5 then you re-visit.
It’s all speculation as draft slots from #5 to #15 will ebb and flow until the seasons end, so we’ll have a better idea at that time.
I fear that this site is getting a little group thinky when it comes to Barkley. I don’t blame Rob or anything but I think that folks are lashing out a bit too much at folks who have questions about Barkley. Not trying to start anything or troll, I love this site and don’t want to see it turn into what Fieldgulls used to be.
Tom, I respectfully disagree. You’ve been very adament that Barkley will be an average NFL QB (I believe you ranked him around 16 in a very recent post), and you’ve made no bones about the Hawks not drafting him.
Frankly, I think he is the most Pro ready Quarterback in college right now, even moreso than Andrew Luck. I don’t question Luck becoming a great player. I question how quick he adapts. The gig he’s run at Stanford has been as easy for a QB as anywhere in college football: dominant offensive line, stellar running game, former NFL QB getting him ready (I know Harbaugh is gone now). You can’t say the same for Barkley.
Sure, Marquis Lee and Robert Woods are two phenomenal receivers, but receivers don’t make QB’s great. They can only operate within the parameters of that QB’s limitations. The offensive line at SC has been good, but nothing like what Luck has in front of him.
Is Barkley flawless? No. Absolutely not, and I think that is one reason Rob has been very high on him for so long: he doesn’t have any major red flags. This kid is the real deal. He is ready for the next level. He’s got the skills to succeed and has been prepared for this his whole life. Seattle is ready for him. Pete and John have built an offense around the ground game and ball control and a prosperous offensive line, and those teams with similar philosophical standards (Atlanta, both NY teams) are having no shortage of success. And with a very stout defense, there’s no reason to think Seattle can’t be a playoff contender next year, and possibly going for the Super Bowl here in the next 2-3.
Unless, of course, they avoid making the move for their guy. And that result will be more mid 90’s Seahawk football: Good enough to be competitive, but not good enough for compete for championships.
Go Hawks.
I think we’re a long way away from that, seanmatt. Debate is a great thing for this site, as is different opinions. At the same time, Barkley is a fine quarterback prospect and the Seahawks need a QBOTF – so I’m not surprised a lot of people speak highly of MB.
That was a very impressive game from Griffin against the Sooners. However, I worry about his durability. On the sidelines he was on his back a lot with the trainers and they were stretching and checking him. He’s also had a history of injury. You have to wonder can he last 16 games a year for many years? You want a guy who can be there like with Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning (until late his career).
Vick gets injured a lot both in Atl and Phi. Just like, I wonder if Tebow will last in Denver. He had a concussion in Florida. For that matter Stafford in Detroit always has that question about him as well.
Still, if Griffin is availible I think the Seahawks should draft him. Again, just worried about his durability.
Colin,
Again, where did I say that Barkley was “extremely average”? I said all along that he’s an elite college QB and then I said above he’s a dynamite college QB. So I ask you, when did I ever say Barkley was extremely average? As far as projecting to the NFL, you’ll have to check because I thought I gave a #12 – #15, which would’ve kept him above the NFL average. Nothing wrong with that but I still gave him the “elite” and then “dynamite” college moniker, so that’s not a “daily change of opinion.”
I would’ve had no problems drafting Barkley if he was available in our slot but I wouldn’t trade up 6+ spots to grab him. I would rather take RG3 and keep the likely 3-4 draft picks to build up more pass rush and press cover corner than put all those eggs in 1 Barkley basket but that’s me.
As SeanMatt was trying to say above in a softer tone, you’re a bit sensitive (lashing out) to anything that could be projected that I’d rather take RG3 than Barkley and that is all I was showing in my dissecting of the Baylor vs OU game tape.
I also agree with James about the potential injury and durability concerns of RG3 but RG3 is one smooth playmaking cat that I’d love to see in Hawk blue and besides, it’s a very realistic option.
I apologized to Rob because he runs the site and I’m not here to disrespect the conversation that he’s looking for on here but you seem to mis-interpret and mis-quote all of my analysis.
Go look at my archived Barkley vs Colorado and U.W. writeups and then we’ll have a conversation because you obviously didn’t watch the tape or read my dissecting analysis.
“There is a lack of middle of the field and anticipatory tight window stick throws…”
“I like Barkley but considering his receiving weapons and Pac 12 secondaries he’s going up against, I expect more from a top 3 QB prospect and reason I don’t have Barkley love, just like.”
“Barkley just doesn’t show a mastery of the middle of the field.”
“That and the middle of the field anticipatory stick throws still concern me.”
“I like his intangibles, his leadership, his pocket awareness and he doesn’t make a lot of bonehead plays like interceptions or taking unnecessary sacks. He plays a pretty conservative but consistent position and he won’t lose a game for you.”
“I hope Barkley isn’t an option and we get a blessing and go RG3 instead.”
-Tom
This is where I get a bit irked with your analysis, Tom. It revolves around one door. Throwing in the deep middle. You’re so blinded by this belief that every NFL QB is firing 90% of their passes 25 yards downfield over a linebacker and in front of a safety that you aren’t seeing what is here: A very good QB for the taking.
It’s also interesting how you never breakdown RG3’s flaws, but are quick to champion him as the guy we should go after.
I just have to respectfully disagree with your postion is all.
Well without getting into the debate about who of the top three are the best QB for Seattle – Oh heck I’ll jump in – It’s whichever QB we can draft!!!!
Here is the flaw in some of the analysis above . Luck, Barkley and Griffin III will all be drafted in the top 5 or 6. So no matter which QB you like we will have to trade up to get a pick. I don’t agree with giving away the farm for this. By traditional analysis it should be a #1 and #2, but with the premium placed on good QBs it may be two #1’s and more.
One thing you can say about Barkley. Sure he has great talent at the receivers. But, that means he maximizes his talent!
For the opposite end. Look what happened to the Cards after Warner retired. Even with Fitzgerald and company the QBs there have been very mediocre.
I think the fact that Barkley improved so much each year is a great sign! That seems to show that he wants to become better. And, that he will be hard worker when he is in the NFL. You want ambitious players. This is something you either have or you don’t. If you don’t you end up like Jamarcus Russell.
Clearly, if you look at a player like Aaron Rodgers. Part of is physical ability. But, another part is so much determination to be great. Not all players have that level of dedication. You can see that with Brees and Brady as well.