Seahawks meet with Chauncey Gardner-Johnson

The Seahawks are doing their homework on the safety class. Maryland’s Darnell Savage has a visit scheduled. Now Tony Pauline says Florida’s Chauncey Gardner-Johnson met with the Seahawks over the last two days…

Make sure you check out Tony’s pro-day reports and his fantastic weekly podcast. Unmissable content from the best in the business.

Gardner-Johnson switched to nickel cornerback last season, playing most of his snaps in the slot. This is a trend among the top safeties in college. Budda Baker played a lot of nickel. This year the likes of Gardner-Johnson, Amani Hooker and others played as a ‘big nickel’ or hybrid.

This is the way the league is going. Seattle played predominantly nickel in base last season with Justin Coleman taking 67.8% of the snaps. With the 2019 group of safeties excelling at the combine (many running in the 4.3’s or 4.4’s) it’s very possible the Seahawks are looking for a safety hybrid to replace Coleman.

That would also make sense financially. A player who can drop back to safety if needs be or play in different defensive formations is a better use of resources than a specialist cornerback who can’t play outside or at safety.

Gardner-Johnson is bigger than he looks on tape at 5-11 and 210lbs. He ran a 4.48 and a 4.20 short shuttle. He has an incredibly energetic personality and character. He loves to talk on the field. He’s known to take risks which has been an issue at times. Yet he’s also one of the better playmaking DB’s in the class — as we saw with his MVP performance in the Bowl game against Michigan.

The Seahawks clearly like their existing safeties a lot more than the fans and media. This is still too good a safety class to ignore the position. Especially if you can get a dynamic ‘big nickel’ type with versatility.

In yesterday’s tiered grades I listed Taylor Rapp (S, Washington), Amani Hooker (S, Iowa), Marvell Tell III (S, USC), Johnathan Abram (S, Mississippi State), Darnell Savage (S, Maryland), Marquise Blair (S, Utah) and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson (S, Florida) in round two. Deionte Thompson (S, Alabama), Juan Thornhill (S, Virginia) and Nasir Adderley (S, Delaware) were listed in round three.

The challenge for the Seahawks is to trade down from #21 and try to have at least three picks in rounds 2-3 to tap into the talent available. This is a strong draft at receiver, defensive line, safety and tight end in that day two range. Those are the areas the Seahawks will likely target if they can gain some extra picks.

Reported Seahawks visits so far:

Parris Campbell (WR, Ohio State)
Darnell Savage (S, Maryland)
L.J. Collier (DE, TCU)
Dre Greenlaw (LB, Arkansas)
Jace Sternberger (TE, Texas A&M)
Chauncey Gardner-Johnson (S, Florida)

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  1. Nate

    My coworker is a huge gators fan and thinks the Hawks will draft him over before they would Polite.
    Couldn’t agree more.
    But I kind of worry about Gardner’s arm length?

    • Look Who's Hawkin?

      I would hope any team would draft him before Polite! Polite has had a terrible pre-draft season, he has bombed every step of the way. Which probably means the Patriots will draft him in the 3rd round and he will be a pro bowl DE

      • JJ

        I don’t think arm length is that big of a deal for safety or nickel. They want long arms outside.

  2. millhouse-serbia

    This is the guy I will root to be seahawks 1st pick (30-45 range).

    • Rob Staton

      That’s a bit too rich. Filling nickel not as vital as the DL or WR needs.

      • millhouse-serbia

        I think he can be FS after rookie season. First season or two big nickel with Hill SS and Bradley FS, and the CGJ takes Mcdougal place.

        • Rob Staton

          Even so, a down-the-road safety after some time at nickel doesn’t scream ‘filling the biggest need’ in a year with limited stock (even if they trade down).

          • EranUngar

            Pete has been very consistent in his his assessment of the team from the end of the season speech all the way to his statements this week. He does not see “needs” like in previous years and he went as far as saying he believes this roster could become a “formidable” team next year (talking with John Clayton).

            He hardly mentions the possibility of draft help when describing various position groups and always points out the players already on the roster as the answer to the needs or the solution for departed players.

            I am slowly shifting from “filling the biggest need” to a more BPA oriented draft strategy.

            • Rob Staton

              He’s also said getting a run defender is a priority, that they need more pass rush, that they need to stop the explosive plays on defense.

              They have needs. Whatever Pete says. He didn’t spell out the need for an interior rusher in 2017 but we all knew it existed. Then they were as aggressive as ever to get McDowell then Richardson.

  3. Look Who's Hawkin?

    If the Seahawks somehow get either CGJ or Darnell Savage, I will be ecstatic. I think both of them are going to be future studs.

    • Trevor

      I agree either would be a nice fit. If we had a full allotment of draft capital I think they would be in play for sure. I am just not sure either guy will be available unless we use the first pick on them after a trade back.

    • Volume12


  4. Trevor

    Funny the Hawks visit list each year is starting to have less and less surprises or unknowns who have not been discussed on the blog. Any of the visitors so far would be a nice addition.

    • Sea Mode

      Hopefully we find out about the visits before the draft. Most of our picks have met or visited, but we just don’t find out about them until after the draft. Here’s the tracker again:

      Maybe it’s by chance, or else it makes you think the Seahawks can really keep their interest under wraps when they want to. That, or it just depends on the player and if he wants to name teams when asked by the media.

      P.S. Do you all read the way Tony words it to mean that Gardner-Johnson visited the VMAC or just met with them?

      • millhouse-serbia

        I understood as just met.

      • David Ashton

        Really cool speedo SeaMode, thanks!

        Gives us a feel for who may be in play!

        Surprised we had links with Pocic. Felt like that one came from way left field.

        • Sea Mode

          Actually, Pocic is notoriously one of the only Seattle draftees that PC/JS openly admitted they tried to have as little contact with as possible so as not to let on that they were interested.

          So yes, you are right in saying that it came from left field, because he was one that they kept tightly under wraps. The quote in the spreadsheet is from the conference call with Pocic after the draft.

          • David Ashton

            Right on!

            Any others with after the event pledges?

            Just the statistician in me does wonder how often they go out of their way to hide interest.

            • Sea Mode

              All the ones I wrote in the “Notes” column on the right that it was “revealed in draft conference call” were not known to us prior to the draft.

              I don’t think they usually go out of their way to hide interest (except with Pocic), but usually they rather “hide in plain sight” by bringing in 5 RBs even if their have their eyes on one in particular.

              I also found this tidbit from Jake Heaps interesting. He’s speaking about why they might meet with top draft prospect that are way out of their range:

              ”They love to meet with those kind of guys and also, they love to get the reps,” said Heaps. ”They love opportunities to say, ‘Hey, we might not draft this guy, but I want to get my own personal take on him. Do I like him? Do I think he can be great, or do I think he’s going to be a flop in this league.’ And then they get to kind of see if they were right or wrong.”

              Heaps says it’s about preparation, so when they have a have a chance to draft a guy at the top of the draft then they’ve been through the process.


      • Rob Staton

        Hard to say with Tony’s wording.

      • Benjamin Daviis

        I wouldn’t be surprised if the Seahawks used visits to not only collect data, but it could create “false interest”. It’s possible, that it could be generated into leverage when bargaining for a better pick by trading when the time comes.

        I could just be talking out my you know what. But that’s just a type of sales tactic I learned when selling cars. Find out what the consumer “REALLY” wants and then, how BADLY they really want it and what they’d be willing to do to acquire it.

  5. CaptainJack

    I think DL and S will be the first two picks.

    • Look Who's Hawkin?

      Don’t sleep on WR. This class is amazing and the day 2 talent is deep. And history shows they aren’t opposed to targeting that range for WRs (PRich, Lockett).

      The way Pete talks about his current DL group, I get the feeling he is higher on them than the fans (sort of like Rob mentions he is with the safeties). I do think they draft a DL/EDGE or some form of pass rusher, but hearing Pete talk yesterday, I think he is really high on Jacob Martin and expects big things from him next season. He kind of had an underrated year, 3 sacks as a rookie 6th round pass rusher is solid. I don’t think he is a world beater or elite sack guy, but I think it’s conceivable he could net 5-8 after a full season as a rotational edge. But I do still think they need depth and I’m sure PC/JS will tap into the DL talent in the draft. Just not sure where or when.

      • McZ

        This draft has so much day 2 talent, that a lot of it will be drafted on day 3.

    • Rob Staton

      I think they’ll take an offensive and a defensive player with their first two picks. It’s been that way in all but three of Seattle’s drafts under PCJS:

      2011 — Carpenter then Moffitt
      2012 — Irvin then Wagner
      2014 — Richardson then Britt

      • Benjamin Daviis

        WR/DL or DL/WR! Callin’ it!!

  6. Gohawks5151

    Awesome news! He is a guy I have loved watching when given the chance. I like him as either a free or nickel but he may get on the field sooner as a nickel. I like Savage too but if i had to pick i’d take this guy first. He is a playmaker. The LOB is a tough act to follow but even still the defensive backfield has been lacking making impact plays.

    • H

      I think I like Savage more, that dude plays with a different level of intensity. CGJ is good too thoug, wouldn’t complain.

  7. Sea Mode

    I like Marvell Tell for outside CB convert, with versatility to cover big slot WRs as well when needed.

    That is all.

    • H

      He absolutely screams Seahawks corner convert.

  8. Volume12

    CGJ has a chance to be a special, special player. He’s not Derwin James, but can be used in multiple roles like James. As diverse as they come. Fits zone defenses to a tee. Seems like the ultimate competitor as well.

    Don’t really care how they do it, just pull the trigger on him Seattle.

    • Rob Staton

      • Sea Mode

        Did this continue in college or has he grown up?

        • Rob Staton

          I think he’s still a bit boom/bust but there wasn’t as much scope for that at nickel.

      • Volume12

        With all due respect, that doesn’t change my opinion of him.

        • Rob Staton

          I didn’t intend for it to change your opinion.

          I posted it for people to watch.

    • HawksGal


  9. Volume12

    Utah St RB Darwin Thompson (5’8, 200 lbs.) has a private work out set up with Seattle.

    4.48-4.53 40
    39″ vert
    10’6″ broad
    28 BP reps

    • Volume12

      With their interest in him, and Parris Cambell with a VMAC visit, wonder if they have interest in Memphis RB/WR Tony Pollard too?

    • Volume12

      * 4.46-4.48 40

    • Elmer

      I’m hoping to see McLaurin on their list of visits. Doug’s health is in doubt, Moore’s development isn’t a sure thing, behind that they have practice squad guys. I’m not counting Jaron Brown. They need help.

      I heard that Kearse wants to return, but I’m not sure that’s an answer.

    • Eli

      Huge draft crush on Thompson, here’s what I wrote about him in a post a week ago:

      If there’s one guy I think the community could fall in love with as a third-string RB, I think it’s gonna be Darwin Thompson out of Utah State. He’s 5’8 200 lbs., and only has one year of FBS experience but he made it count:

      153 rushes for 1,044 yds (6.8 avg.) and 14 TD, 23 catches for 351 yds (15.3 avg.) and 2 TD

      Diving deeper I think there’s a lot to like about him:
      – Wasn’t recruited out of HS so he went to a JuCo, no Power-5 offers coming out of JuCo. Wasn’t invited to the Combine. He’s always been the underdog and he acknowledges it. He likes that chip on his shoulder.
      – Gained 1,210 yards after contact and forced 61 missed tackles on his 175 touches. He’s small but he’s not a scatback. Converted 34% of touches into 1st downs or TDs
      – #1 in elusive rating for PFF last year
      – Not sure if there are any official test results on him but the reports I’ve read peg him at a 4.40 40-yd and 40.5″ vertical. Both those figures would have tied for 1st at the Combine (pretty similar to the official numbers you just posted except for the 40)

      I watched his game this past season against San Jose State, and he completely took over the 2nd half of the game – would highly recommend checking it out. I think he’d be a perfect fit on our team and give us a crazy three-headed monster at RB.

      • Volume12

        Didn’t really dig into him, but he seemed like a fun player when I was watching Utah St. QB Jordan Love. Will give him a look.

  10. WALL UP

    “Bigger, stronger, tougher is good for us,” Pete Carroll, regarding his outlook for 2019 run game. How will the upcoming draft accommodate this?

    • Rob Staton

      I think they’ve already addressed that with Iupati.

    • WALL UP

      “I think we just got a bit better,” PC’s assessment of the current OL thus far. What draft prospects will fit the current prototype that will help make them even better, for the future?

      • WALL UP

        Iupati does make them better. But, for how long? 2 yrs would be an optimistic, perhaps an unrealistic view, due to injury and age concerns. Pete is fired up to have a bigger, stronger, tougher OL, unlike he’s ever had before.

        • Rob Staton

          That doesn’t mean they’re going to draft Iupati’s eventual replacement in 2019.

        • Coleslaw

          I totally get your reasoning for this stance, I had the same idea before I looked at our current roster. There really is no room for another OL. We’re pretty set. OT is set. Center is set. OG is set with 2 starters and 2 solid backups at each spot. Plus if we keep Pocic that’s 3 backups for the guard spots.

          There just isnt room and there is no point in adding to your (arguably) strongest position group while other spots needs big help, like DL, WR and DB.

      • Rob Staton

        I don’t think they’ll see that as a priority. They’ve not even addressed DL, WR, TE, DB. Those will be draft priorities. The O-line is sorted.

        • WALL UP

          Over the last (20) yrs, they have always pick at least (1) OL player, except 2008, prior to the JS/PC area. It’s hard to imagine them not planning for the future, if the right prototype were available.

          • Rob Staton

            How many times have they gone into a draft with four picks in the last 20 years?

            How many times have they gone into a draft with five clear starters and legitimate depth?

            They might draft an OL at some point if the board falls a certain way but it’ll probably be late day three and it’s on the periphery of the draft story for the Seahawks this year.

            • Benjamin Daviis

              If there’s 3 things I know about the Seahawks drafting process, it’s this:

              1. There is a 100% chance that Seattle ends up with more draft picks than they started the draft with!

              2. At some point Settle will draft an OL.

              3. And 3, and maybe the most important, that Rob ends up pulling a name or few out thin air!

              You could be right Staton. They could wait until the draft is over to look for diamonds in the rough for OL. But my money is on keeping the running game protection ranks constantly stocked. Frankly I’d be shocked if we didnt get one at some point in this draft. I’m betting we grab at least one.

              • Rob Staton

                My name is Rob not ‘Staton’.

        • McZ

          Let’s say, they are in no position to really sort it.
          If they were, LG or RT prospects would certainly be welcome.

          • Rob Staton

            It’s already sorted

  11. Sea Mode

    For all we lament getting little in return for Earl, internally how they handled his holdout and now the KJ extension is a huge victory for the front office and sends a clear message to the rest of the locker room:

    Wagner publicly lobbied throughout 2018 for the Seahawks to re-sign Wright. He said last year the Seahawks should reward Wright for always doing things the right way. For not holding out last spring and summer, while teammate Earl Thomas did and both were wanting extensions on expiring contracts.

    • Coleslaw

      Good point. Makes me think that rewarding Bobby is vital to their image to players. They’ve got a bad rap recently for a team with a players coach, this could set a real nice precedent.

      Everything they’ve ever stood for would remain intact, with the stipulation that the players are loyal as well. I love it.

  12. Coleslaw

    I’ve been preparing myself the last couple days for a surprise safety pick with our top pick. They seem really into this DB class. If I had to say the positions the Hawks seem most interested in I would say DB, TE, DL and WR in that order. They are doing research on linebackers too.

    I just think we’re going to target a bunch of ‘Seahawky’ players, guys who might not be as high on other boards but guys that we will want in the mix. Even if they may only be solid depth, that’s really all we can add to this roster, unless we’re upgrading spots, which will be hard to do at any position other than DL, DB, WR and TE.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, were going to use this draft to fill out our roster, meaning strong depth players. We’ll get a DL and a NCB, but after that I wouldnt say theres any guarantees (based on need). The ‘guarantees’ we’ve gotten used to (TE, WR, CB) all would likely be depth additions. Not that the players wouldnt be as good as what we have, just that they wouldnt have such a quick path to the field.

    TE I believe is a little different though since we’re going for the run heavy mentality, that is a little more of a need, although I’d call it a luxury pick.

    I guess I just think we could go with any of DL, DB, WR, TE with our first pick, after that, its gonna be all depth with the future in mind. Take it to the bank.

    • Rob Staton

      I think some perspective is needed though. They’ve met with Chauncey Gardner-Johnson and arranged a draft visit with Darnell Savage. I’m not sure that constitutes evidence of being really into this DB class.

      I’d also be more surprised if they weren’t checking out the DB’s. They have a need at nickel and require competition at corner and probably safety. But it’s not their biggest need. They’ve lost defensive linemen and so far haven’t added a single player to the defensive front. They could lose Doug Baldwin this summer and if it isn’t this year — he might be gone in 12 months. And they’re meeting with receivers and defensive linemen too.

      The Seahawks regularly tap into the strength of the class with their first pick and get ‘their’ guy. I still think DL, WR and based on the Wilson contract saga — QB — are likely options with the first pick. I’m not saying safety is out of the question but the fact is they can start the 2019 season with their existing safeties and field a team. They can’t start the 2019 season with their current D-line.

      • Coleslaw

        I agree with pretty much all of what you said. Ive been saying DL or WR but Safety is creeping up there.

        I don’t think we would take a NCB with our top pick. I should’ve said that if we do take a safety, I think itll be for the single high role.

      • Eli

        They had a nice write up over at Fieldgulls on current DB Kalan Reed and his potential to replace Coleman as the main nickel corner. He looks like a promising kid already on the roster and may lessen our need to pick a nickel player up through the draft

    • DCD2

      They’ll trade down and pick someone like Christian Miller (Bama OLB) at pick 35 or so. Everyone will scratch their heads and Kiper will fumble through his papers to find his scouting profile for the guy. Twitter will melt down, and the AV guys will be a minute late bringing up his highlight reel.

      John will say that they would have taken him at 21 and we’ll get F’s across the board for draft grades.

      These are my expectations, based off of years of observation. 🙂

  13. Trevor

    In his interview with John Clayton the biggest thing that stuck out to me was Pete being clear about the need add a DT. He said RB, OL,CB and surprisingly TE were positions with good depth.

    Unless they add more in free agency I really think WR, DT and hybrid safety/slot CB could be our first 3 picks just not sure what order. Really wish we had 3-4 picks on Day #2 of this draft.

    • Rob Staton

      DL and WR remain the leaders in the clubhouse for the first pick.

      QB is the wildcard IMO.

      After that, I’d be surprised if they didn’t tap into the DB’s and TE’s.

      • Trevor

        Yeah I agree. If there is a QB they really likes then all bets are off.

        I know you like Grier. What are your thoughts on Stidham and Tyree Jackson?

        • Rob Staton

          Stidham has the tools but very hard to feel confident about him at the next level because every drop of tape is him taking a read from the sideline and then working from an extremely limited set of options. He’s a project. Jackson has the physical tools but I just find it hard to get excited about him as more than a project you bring in on day three and see if he sticks.

          And with Grier — it’s not that I’m crazy about him as a prospect. I’m simply asserting that he’s a fit for what the Seahawks look for, that he excels with deep throws and chunk yardage and that some of the knocks on him (eg arm strength) are misplaced.

          The QB I think is amazing in this class is the guy who will go #1 overall. The guy I’ve felt should be the #1 pick for a few months now.

          • Trevor

            I agree Murray is my favourite QB prospect in quite some time. I think he is just built for today’s NFL. Outside of him however I think it is the worst QB class in quite a while.

            The one day #3 guy I kind of like is Clayton Thorson.

            • Benjamin Daviis

              If only there was a QB with the durability and rushing ability of a RB, but one who could drop some dimes? I think Lamar Jackson was on his way to being the closest thing the League had seen in that mold of a player until Murray declared. I don’t think he’d be as durable as Jackson, but he could be new hybrid offensive player the League has been waiting for.

              It reminds me of how the QB position has slowly morphed into a more mobile QB. I honestly feel that L. Jackson is pioneering the way for a a type of player we have not yet seen. A full time QB/RB hybrid. Does that sound crazy?

              And of course he would most likely end up in our division.

              • Trevor

                I really like Jackson and I think he is a slightly more dynamic runner than Murray but Murray is a much more natural and dynamic thrower. He really can make all the throws.

                I agree that dual threat and mobility seems to be coming back in style and if Murray balls out along with Mahomes and Jackson that trend will only continue. Think about Russ when he came into the league his impact with designed runs was huge. I miss that part of his game.

              • Kenny Sloth

                Cam Newton*

                Dude is like a damn Full back.

            • Starhawk29

              As a Northwestern fan I really hope we don’t draft Thorson. Guy is just all over the place, no consistency. Big arm and very smart, no question, but not an NFL QB IMO.

          • LLLOGOSSS

            I love how objective analysis gets conflated with you having a crush on guys. The draft will vindicate your views on these guys, including Grier, as it always does.

  14. Trevor

    Pauline reported Trysten Hill had a great Pro day and is really rising up teams boards.

    • Rob Staton

      Not surprised at all. Incredible combine, incredible physical profile. As much physical potential as any DL in this draft.

      • Trevor

        If I had to put $ down on the Hawks first pick in this draft it would be Hill. Then they add another big bodied vet run stuffer and you have a really nice DT rotation.

        Hawks need need to turn a 1st rounder and 3rd Rounder into 4 picks on Day 2 in this draft somehow. If They can they could really round out the roster nicely.

        • Rob Staton

          They’ve got a big call to make on Frank Clark. If Mike Garafolo is right and the price is a definite R1, they need to get serious with Frank and try and work out a contract pre-draft. And if one isn’t forthcoming, consider their options. Because there will be ample opportunities to get D-line help in this draft. A decent R1 pick can be transformed into a couple (if not more) day two picks. And that’s where the value will be in this class.

          • Trevor

            I love Clark one of my favorite Hawks but I agree if he has that value then either a long term deal or trade has to happen.

          • DCD2

            Cowboys reportedly are offering D Lawrence $20M and he wants $22.5M. I wonder how much that is factoring into the Frank situation.

          • Bulldog

            Huge call! I wouldn’t sign Clark, but what do I know?

          • Benjamin Daviis

            Great point. I’d love to keep Clark, but let’s get it done now. If not, time to make some moves.

            Question? If Clark is dealt for a R1, at what range could we expect if he was to be traded? Are we talking 9-15 range?

            • Simo

              Good question! Rob commented previously that Frank wouldn’t fetch a top 10 pick, but perhaps a top 20. So, the question becomes would they trade him for a bottom half R1 pick, or not?

              We’d all love to have another R1 pick we could turn into a couple really good players, but losing Frank would be a big hit. He’s the Hawks most consistent pass rusher, hasn’t missed significant time due to injury, and his best years may still be in front of him.

            • Rowlandice

              If I was JS, I’d be calling the cap flush Colts about their #26 and change.

        • Austin Hall

          If Hill fell all the way to the Hawks, wouldn’t that indicate character red flags? They doubtfully will use another high pick on a prospect with character concerns, and if that’s why Hill falls then the Hawks will most likely choose to let the slide continue.

  15. WALL UP

    We’re talking trader John here. No way they end up with (4) picks! 🙂 He probably ends up with at least (7) if not (8), or (9) picks.

    • Rob Staton

      Of course. I think they’ll end up with 6-7. But when they’ve taken a DL, WR, TE, S, CB and possibly a QB — doesn’t leave much scope for anything else. And they have depth on the OL. Might be an option for them later on but not a priority.

  16. Dale Roberts

    It’s difficult to research but I believe the Hawks have a history of taking guys they’ve met with before the draft or Pete had recruited to USC. Therefore I find it interesting that so far they have met with only two defensive lineman, Charles Omenihu and LJ Collier. We’ve still got a month and they could be smoke screening like they did with Pocic but given the relative lack of success in building D-line depth in free agency I expected more activity.

  17. GoHawksDani

    OK, I feel like the Hawks won’t select front7 with their first pick. It’s a shame they disrespected their draft capital. This could be a very good year with all the picks.

    I think only way they’ll select DL if someone falls. Based on Rob’s grades, here’s how I see positions on a 10 point scale:
    DL: top15 guys are 10/10, after that late 1st/2nd round guys 7/10, 3rd-4th 6/10, 5th+ rounds 5/10
    LB: top10-15: 9/10, rest of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round 5/10, later 3/10
    CB: first round 7/10, second: 6,5/10 third-fourth: 5,5/10, later: 4,5/10
    Safety: first round: 8/10, second round 8/10, third round: 6/10, later: 4/10
    QB: Murray: 10/10, rest of the first round 6,5/10, second round: 5,5/10, later: 3/10
    OL: top15: 8,5/10, first round 7/10, second round: 7/10, third round: 5/10, later: 3,5/10
    WR: guys you can select in the first round 8/10, guys you can select in the second round 8/10, in the 3rd 6/10, later 4/10
    RB: first round: 6/10, second round: 5,5/10, later: 4/10
    TE: first 15-20: 9/10, later in 1st, 2nd and 3rd round: 7/10, after that: 3/10

    We don’t have a top15-20 pick.
    We’ll probably pick in the second round first. Our potential needs/wants, with 2nd round grades and in parentheses the grade for them when we next pick (3rd round):
    QB: 6 (3)
    DL: 7 (6)
    CB: 6,5 (5,5)
    OL: 7 (5)
    WR: 8 (6)
    S: 8 (6)
    TE: 7 (7)

    No reason to draft TE with first pick, you can have the same type of guy in the 2nd and in the 3rd and the talent level is really deep for Y-TEs and they won’t all go in the 2nd
    No reason to draft CB. It’s not that big of a need (outside CB), and the talent is not 1st round worthy and the dropoff is not huge
    I don’t feel OL is a huge need. They can get depth later
    QB dropoff is pretty big, apart from the top 4-5 QBs there are no viable options and 2-3 QB will go in the first round for sure. Question is that is it OK/good to draft an “OK” guy with your first pick who’ll most likely won’t take the field and questionable his trade value? If they want a QB they have to draft him with their first pick…but I’d wait until next year
    The 3 most interesting position to me is WR, S, DL.
    We’ll need to fill Doug’s position (or Lockett’s if Lockett will be #1 WR) if not next year, at least a couple of years from now. It’d be fine if the new WR could ease into the role (as a WR3) and not pushed into deep water right away.
    We miss ETIII. He has the most INTs last year despite only playing in a couple of games. I’m not sure how much the team wants to emphasize the FS role, but if they want a quick, instinctive playmaker in the backfield this might be the draft to do so. Also that safety could also compete for nickel CB role or play big nickel when 6 DBs are on the field.
    We need to fix the run defense, we need to have more pass rush, we need DT depth, so DL is also important.

    I feel the logical time to pick a TE will be the 3rd round (maybe 4th if they have a ton of guy they like and the run only start late)

    I think CB can wait. Not an immediate need and the top of the class is mediocre comparing to previous drafts, but their athletic profile is solid deep into the draft. We couldn’t really have a clear starter in the second round, but we can have an interesting guy even in the 4th/5th rounds.

    Unless someone falls from top15-20 from the DL guys, I feel there is not a huge gap between 2nd round and 3rd and maybe even 4th round guys. You won’t get a really talented, safe, high ceiling, every down DT/DE in the 2nd round. There will be questions, and maybe not only a few. I feel you can get more or less the same guy in the 3rd. And maybe you’ll have 1-2 more questions but you might get more or less the same guy in the 4th.

    In the second round (based on Rob’s rating), you might be able to have: Savage, CGJ, Rapp, Abram, Tell, Hooker, Blair. These guys are all interesting and solid safety prospects (especially Savage). In the third, you can only have Adderley, Thornhill, Thompson. These guys are also OK, but you can feel the talent/potential/readiness dropoff. And after them a lot more questions or lower ceiling guys. If you want a potential starter you might need to draft him in the second.

    The WR class is deep, but the readiness and the ceiling feel the dropoff after the first 5-6 guys. These guys will likely go late 1st/early second. If the team thinks there are bigger needs, Douggie will play 1-2 more years and they can get solid guys in FA, they might only pick a WR later. If they want a potential start, they have to pick him with their first pick.

    As thinking this through, I would trade back into the second round if I was Schneider.
    With 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th picks, I’d select Savage (S) in the 2nd round, Jennings (WR) and Sample (TE) in the third, Maybe Saunders (DT) will be available in the 4th then him and Hollins (EDGE) with the 4th round picks. Hollins probably will be available there. If Saunders won’t then maybe Daniel Wise (DT) if neither would be available then another DT. Run defense more important than rush ability. If both are there it’s a bonus. In the 5th Derrek Thomas (CB) and Alec Ingold (FB).

    Thought about Wesco in the 3rd, but I feel they want a more natural FB. Wesco is basically Fant with the better catch ability. We could cover FB, Fant and some TE production with Wesco, but I choose better TE production with blocking ability, and more natural FB now.

    I feel this is a completely different draft, and I don’t really think the Hawks will go down this road as how much they like Hill now…but I WOULD LOVE THIS…
    Darnell Savage, Gary Jennings, Drew Sample, Daniel Wise (Saunders will probably go in the 3rd), Justin Hollins, Derrek Thomas, Alec Ingold.

    Savage, Ingold, Sample might be day 1 starters
    Wise, Hollins good rotational pieces.
    Jennings WR3
    Thomas nice project

    • Rob Staton

      DL is a very valid option with the first pick. There are lots of options.

    • Matt

      How do you not view the secondary, specifically CB as “not an immediate need?”

      I don’t mean for this to be hostile, but I am not terribly sure what games people watched last year. Griffin is below average. Flowers has nice tools and upside but has major holes and can’t create interceptions (neither can Griffin). FS is a blackhole…it will be hard for anyone to convince me that Tedric Thompson or Delano Hill are anything but replacement level backups.

      Again – I don’t expect to replicate Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman, but we are dealing with not even average players in those positions. So yes, expecting HOF replacements is stupid, but expecting Byron Maxwell-like talent isn’t far fetched.

      Maybe I am completely wrong about this, but admittedly, I just scratch my head when people talk about this secondary. It’s legitimately a below average group.

      • DCD2

        We also lost arguably our best corner in Coleman. You can mask a lot of coverage deficiencies with a good pass rush though, and even a stout run defense. Stopping them for 0-2 yards and creating 3rd and long forces a limited script in the passing game.

        I don’t disagree that our secondary was quite average, and we’ve lost more than we’ve gained. It’s all a balancing act of where PCJS think the most impact will come from. Better rush for quicker throws? Better run D for more favorable down & distance? Better coverage to force 2nd & 3rd reads and let the rush get there?

        We’ve never invested much draft capital (apart from ET) in the secondary however, so I think we can reasonably expect that trend to continue. Not that it isn’t a need, just that we rely on coaching and traits at DB rather than high picks.

      • jujus

        1. They are betting big on Akeem King – He shut down Kelce so theres that.
        2. Shaq played most of the year on a bum ankle and supposedly heavily effected his play.
        3/ Flowers in on a solid trajectory.
        4. If our LBs and D line are + – to elite it will make the jobs of the corners and safeties much easier.


        For me it’s less about feeling settled in the secondary, and more about understanding how PCJS have built that unit. It does us no good to pine for Derwin James or Kevin King (as I did), since we know quite well that this team simply does not draft DB’s in the first 3 rounds (ET, a consensus Hall of Famer and top-15 slam dunk pick, and Shaquille Griffin — a late 3rd [almost 4th round], iirc, being the only exceptions). They have also never spent any considerable resources to acquire talent there via trade or free agent signings. It’s very clear that the organization is trying to exploit market inefficiencies, with Pete Carroll being the ace in the hole. They likely view it much easier to develop a profile in the secondary — one that has been reputed to be more trait-dependent than pure talent dependent in Pete’s scheme — than to find elite athletes on the DL and OL, for example.

        And here’s the thing: Pete has the gravitas to justify that approach. We can’t say it doesn’t work. Iirc, Sherman in the 5th? Chancellor the 6th? Browner from the CFL? Maxwell in the the 6th? Thurmond the 4th? Lane a late round, I’m sure. Flowers in the 5th? McDougald and Coleman from the scrap heap. Hell, the only time we ever committed any serious resources to an outside DB was a disaster (Cary Williams).

        The model is in place, and it’s not going to change. The good news is there’s every reason for optimism.

      • GoHawksDani

        Agreed to some extent. I think Griffin is mediocre. Everyone loves Flowers. To be honest, he was not that good. If I’m taking into consideration that he’s a safety convert then yep, he was good. But just watching him as a pure CB, he had some issues. He’s to grabby, not fast enough. Not sure about his ceiling. People think that because he did not suck in his first year, he’ll be amazing in his second. He might not make that jump.
        I love McDougald, I think he’s amazing. I think we lost the hammer with Kam’s injury, but we got a much, much better cover safety. I think McDougald is cemented to one of the safety position based on his plays. But I’m really disappointed in T2. I was pumped about him after the draft. But he’s mediocre at best and I think it’s not an inexperienced thing, but a ceiling one. I was never liked Hill. He could be a solid big nickel, and do a couple of things good, but I think he lacks the necessary instincts.
        But based on PCJS comments, they don’t view safety as a big need. And they also don’t see CB as a big need. I think our CB group is mehh-OKish-bit bad…BUT not sure we could draft an outside corner in this draft who could be a day 1 starter.

        When I try to make a mock, I try to mesh my assumptions, beliefs with what I heard from Rob, other analysts and PCJS.

        To be honest, because it seems PCJS is settled on Hill as the starter, I doubt they’ll draft a safety early. They did not say the same for QJeff or Naz or Green. So more likely they’ll draft a DE/EDGE. But now I just couldn’t put the idea aside to draft someone who would be (most likely) much better than Hill/T2.

        I feel they’ll start King as nCB. And King will suck badly against quicker, athletic, more fluid slot WRs. King can do some things really well, but he’s different than Coleman.

        So yeah, I agree…we could use an upgrade at most of the positions in the secondary. But I doubt we will, and there are bigger needs (stop the run, generate legit passrush apart from Clark and Reed)

    • Bigten

      I keep seeing people saying how much the Seahawks like Hill, did I miss something where they mentioned it or met with him? I know Rob you think he would be a great fit and pick, as do I, but I haven’t seen any ties to the hawks (sadly).

      • Rob Staton

        No there hasn’t but I’ve not seen anyone say with any assurity that Seattle likes him. Only that he fits the type of player they like.

    • Dale Roberts

      I really enjoyed your analysis and logic GoHawksDani. Thanks for the strong effort.

      • GoHawksDani

        Thanks Dale…can’t wait ’til the draft, I’m so curious what will happen 😀

  18. Sea Mode

    Wonder if he’s played any slot before… could be great in run support.

    NFL Draft Diamonds

    JT Hassell Florida Tech LB 5110 200 pounds, 4.38 forty

    10’1 BJ, 42 inch vert, 4.26 SS 6.84 3 cone, 23 reps of 225

    7:58 PM – 27 Mar 2019

    • Aaron

      A 5’11” 200lb LB?…height is okay but he’s too light to be a starter in the NFL. Bobby, KJ, and Kendricks are all 240lb+. Need to be at least 225 or 230 to play LB full time in this league imo.

      • Sea Mode

        Yeah, that’s why I threw out the slot CB idea…

  19. Sea Mode

    Jim Nagy comments: “sweet feet!”

    Darnell Savage going through DB drills at pro day:

    • clbradley17

      From Tony Pauline of on Maryland’s Pro Day – “Safety Darnell Savage stood on his awesome combine numbers but went through position drills. He looked very fluid and especially smooth in his hips. the belief is that Savage could transition to cornerback, so the interest from the Steelers and Jets made more sense in that light.”

      Looks like other teams are looking at him as a slot CB too.

      And of CGJ’s FL Pro Day, he states “As one source told me, Gardner-Johnson “crushed it“ during position drills. Scouts are divided as to whether he’ll line up at cornerback or safety at the next level.”

      On UCF DT Trysten Hill’s Pro day, Pauline says “And just like at the combine, Hill looked terrific. Hill stood on his combine marks but participated in position drills and looked great, just as he did during the combine. While we presently grade Hill as a third-round prospect, many feel he won’t get out of the second round. It will come down to a numbers game on the defensive line with so many talented prospects.”

      Full transcript of the 3/27 podcast interview John Clayton had with Pete Carroll:

  20. millhouse-serbia

    I am not so sure, after Pete interview with Clayton and breakfast meeting, that WR is such a high priority need.

    Peet spoke about Brown getting more targets, Moore development next year (great talent by Pete), mention Darboh is back next year e, Lockett is standard and one of the best in the game…

    So even if Doug cant came back, and Pete is expecting he will come, I don’t see WR as such a big priority…

    And Lockett, Moore, Darboh are all young guys…

    • Rob Staton

      Baldwin might retire this off season.

      Think people are over analysing Pete’s latest chatter. I’ve listened to it all and he was on full defense mode.

  21. Sea Mode

    Jeffrey Simmons NFL Network interview:

  22. Sea Mode

    Ed Oliver down to 281. Why? I wonder what weight teams have been telling him they would like to see him.

    Aaron Wilson

    Ed Oliver @Edoliver_11 weighed in at 281 pounds today at @UHCougarFB Pro Day down from 287 at the scouting combine. He’s expected to crush this workout after 32 reps in bench at combine and 36 inch vertical leap

    7:14 AM – 28 Mar 2019

    • Sea Mode

      Ian Rapoport

      One scout just texted me: 4.71. Insane for a guy that size.

      Jane Slater

      Houston’s DL Ed Oliver runs an unofficial 4.75 40 time

      8:57 AM – 28 Mar 2019

  23. Sea Mode

    Wow, PC said Jacob Martin lost 20 pounds over the course of the season. I remember Avril always saying he had trouble keeping on weight (and you can see how skinny he became now in no time), but that’s a pretty significant drop for Martin.

    Also, new term coined by PC: “Activity problem-makers” 👌 I hereby request the official instatement of the abbreviation APM to go along with BAMF and such here on SDB!

    But we’re always looking for activity problem-makers for the offense, and they can come in different sizes and shapes, there’s some guys in the draft that we’re interest in, there’s some guys in free agency that we’ll look at here in the upcoming weeks.


    We’re just looking for activity and problem-makers. Usually you can look to that pressure percentage; how many times when they rush do they affect the quarterback. That’s where Jacob Martin, if you look back at his numbers, he was way up there.

    So maybe that’s something we should pay more attention to as we scout DL, beyond just sack/TFL totals: pressure %.

    Which guys come to mind as the biggest APM in this class?

    • Trevor

      I think you are onto something Seamode it would be interesting to try and get the pressure rates for the DL in this draft class. I wonder if PFF has something like that?

      • Rob Staton

        There is and I have tallied some of their notes for a piece

      • DCD2

        I just Googled ‘activity problem makers’… it’s a dead end 🙂

        Sorting by tackles for loss was interesting though. Some guys you’d expect (Ferguson, Allen, Crosby), but some others I hadn’t heard of. Any guesses as to who led the NCAA in tackles for loss?

        ECU’s Nate Harvey. He was recently denied a 5th year of eligibility, and seems to be way under the radar.

        Seems pretty small, but has a great back story. Maybe a UDFA?

        Other names from that list and where Pauline projects them:

        Chase Hansen (Utah: OLB) – 6th
        Oshane Ximines (ODU – DE) – 6th
        Gerald Willis (Miami – DT) – 2nd
        Ben Banogu (TCU – OLB) – 5th

        Might be some guys to look at anyway.

        • Sea Mode

          Doesn’t even have to be a TFL. Just a pressure that moves the QB off of his spot. (i.e. a “hurry”). QB hits count as well.

          Here is some interesting insight from PFF. (who knows how their “player grades” are calculated, but the raw statistics have value on their own and can be interpreted as one sees fit):

          All pass-rushers are trying to sack the quarterback, but even the best will only do so on around three percent of their snaps on the field. Hits and hurries combine with sacks to form a much more robust picture of total pressure generated.

          Pressure that does not result in a sack is important too, as just pressuring the quarterback sees an average drop in passer rating of 32.0 points from 94.4 to 61.8 over the past ten years. That’s the equivalent of turning Ben Roethlisberger into Blaine Gabbert just by hurrying him in the pocket.

          Beasley led the league in sacks [in 2016], but was just 18th even among edge defenders, when it comes to total pressures. Compare that to a player like Oakland’s Khalil Mack who led the league with 96 combined sacks, hits and hurries, and Beasley has a significant deficit in total pressure.

          When we used our analytics to run numbers to find out just how valuable pressure was compared to sacks, our Expected Points Added data showed that a sack is worth around 2.1 pressures of any other kind. So a player like Mack would only need to have had an extra 11 hits or hurries to have added more value as a pass-rusher than Beasley despite having five fewer sacks over the season. Mack in reality had 40 more pressures, and so had a significantly higher PFF grade than Beasley.

          • DCD2

            I get where you’re going, but I couldn’t find anything specific to pressure (NCAA ranks) myself. Sounds like Rob might be on it though.

            Looking up defensive pressures was my first thought too (after APM of course).

    • GoHawksDani

      Not on the defensive side, but Campbell seems like could make big problems for the opponents 😀 I highly doubt it will happen, but I’d be soooo pumped if he’d come to the Seahawks

  24. Matt

    I know we are very much in disagreement about this – but I think secondary is absolutely the most dire need on this team. Outside of McDougald – I’d contend we don’t have an average player.

    Griffin – is a serviceable #2. Just no instincts and struggles to pick up the football. He’s a guy that needs to improve dramatically or be upgraded.
    Flowers – I like a lot and think he can become an average #2, but is still prone to big mistakes (understandable). He doesn’t seem to have any ability to create interceptions.
    Hill – I had really high hopes for, but he seems to be JAG.
    Thompson – I think is downright terrible. Doesn’t make plays. Slow. Misses tackles, consistently. I have to admit that this is the biggest head scratcher for me bc I feel like we are watching 2 completely different players.

    Bottom line – Pete hasn’t developed a top notch secondary player in quite a long time (NFL years). If Pete thinks he can win with defense and running the ball – I think the secondary is by far the weakest link on this team and without a premiere unit; I’m not terribly sure how he thinks we can do anything in the Playoffs.

    I absolutely believe DL and WR are big needs but at least I can identify young talent that has performed at a high level, currently on the team. Can’t say the same about the secondary.

    • Rob Staton

      Competition at secondary is required. But there are a few problems I have with this post Matt…

      1. Pete hasn’t developed a top notch secondary player in quite a long time? Bradley McDougald, an unwanted UDFA on the open market, hasn’t been developed into a quality starter? Tre Flowers didn’t even play cornerback in college. He didn’t excel as a rookie? And before that, why would they need to develop a quality cornerback or safety after drafting and developing Sherman, Earl, Kam, Maxwell, Thurmond etc? Expectations are a little off here.

      2. Are we seriously judging players like Flowers after one great rookie year? Or Delano Hill and Tedric Thompson after a handful of starts?

      I think it’s time to slow things down here. Too critical.

      • Trevor

        You forgot Coleman who they traded a 7th round pick for and just signed a huge deal. Also Byron Maxwell, Jeremy Lane etc. . A better question is what DB have they brought in whom they have not developed. I can only think of one and that was Tharold Simon.

        • Greg Haugsven

          I agree Trevor, There also hasnt been that many chances since Earl, Kam, and Sherm were there for so long.

        • Sea Mode

          Pierre Desir just got paid well by Indy too…

          Matt, your standards are just too high, man.

          • Trevor

            Forgot about him.

            I am kind of anxious to see if they can do anything with Simeon Thomas he has freakish length and was a good athlete coming out. Had all the traits Pete looks for and I think a full off season could tell the tale.

      • Matt

        Rob – Here’s my rebuttal:

        1. It’s a fair point with McDougald, but I’d contend that that you are overstating his “development” in Seattle. I think he is a fine example of getting an opportunity moreso than PC magically turned him into a good player.

        Where are you getting the Flowers comment? I said I like him a lot and think he can become an average #2.

        I think the latter part of your response is really unfair. It’s my fault for not explicitly stating it in this post, but in this same comment section I said, “I don’t expect another Earl or Richard, but we have below average players across the board when you take out McDougald.” PC is trying to replicate his early years in Seattle – this defense and specifically this secondary is not good enough.

        2. Again – where did I say Flowers was terrible? You are getting into territory where we disagree about something and you are completely exaggerating what I said about him. Why do that? You think he had a great rookie year? Sure, if we are talking about someone never having played CB, it was a great year. How about compared to his competition? Was it a great year? Is that the new standard for this team?

        Regarding Delano and Tedric – how many years do they need? The opportunity has been there to take a job and run with it. Neither has done anything but prove that an upgrade needs to be made.

        I see we are in the pile on mode, now: Coleman was absolutely a good player that had been tossed around his first few years with various teams. Again, was this the product of development or opportunity? I will absolutely give this team credit for getting him on the cheap – but again, I think you guys are confusing “opportunity” with “development.”

        Pierre Desir? C’mon guys…PC developed him?

        I don’t mind being the outlier here but please don’t put words in my mouth that were not said (Flowers). If you guys watched this team last year and think we are on the cusp of something great – I mean, I hope you’re right but I think you guys are setting yourselves up for severe disappointment.

        All that said, I appreciate your efforts on this blog, Rob. Cheers.

        • Rob Staton

          Never said you said Flowers was terrible. I haven’t put any words in your mouth. Saying he ‘might’ become an average #2 is hardly a glowing reference though is it?

          How many years do TT and Hill need? Don’t know. Kam had a redshirt year. They deserve more than a handful of starts before people start writing them off.

          You’re being overly critical about Pete in particular. You’re welcome to your views but I have to say, I just see it as the latest example of Seahawks fans’ unrealistic expectations these days.

          • Ross Nelson

            I don’t agree with Matt re: PC’s CB development. PC deserves all the credit in the world when it comes to that position. I do agree with him, however, on his TT and Hill statements. Those two have shown absolutely nothing, in my opinion. Kam may have had a redshirt year, but when he played, you could see flashes. TT has been plain bad. Hill may be something one day, but doesn’t look like a starter to my untrained eyes.

            I hope Seattle takes a promising young safety in the draft.

            • Rob Staton

              I’m just going to say this — so please don’t take offence.

              I think some fans are going through at safety what others went through at left tackle immediately after Walter Jones left. Anything other than Walter wasn’t going to cut it. Some couldn’t get over the fact that HOF talents don’t just come and go.

              Earl Thomas is a future HOFer. And the reality is — most people can’t name 10 NFL safeties. Because there are barely any good ones. The position is adapting and changing just like it is in college. But to me, Seahawks fans are caught up on having an elite single-high playmaker and tone-setter. Anyone else just won’t do.

              Delano Hill was great at the end of last season. Tedric wasn’t great but he wasn’t a steaming liability either. Neither has had more than a handful of starts and people are writing them off.

              Yet loads of people wrote Ifedi off a year ago and he had his best season in 2018. So I prefer to give the young guys time. Competition is needed — but write them off? Not yet.

        • Gohawks5151

          I see what you’re saying about opportunity vs development but you could do that with anyone. Sherm never had an opportunity because the was a late WR convert. Browner never just needed an opportunity as he was a CFL star. Coleman didn’t have an opportunity despite playing for 2 great defensive minds in Zimmer and Belichick. Its a slippery slope.I think you have to go with Pete’s track record that an overwhelming percent of the DBs that come here are better after their time here than they were before they came. Desir is a good example because he turned down a roster spot with the Chargers a few years ago to stay on the practice squad and learn from Pete. The players recognize his skills.

          As for the current dudes, Tre is an archetype they have had success with and looks on track to be above average. The safety conversion will take a little longer though. Shaq was an athlete within their desired measurements. His college defensive tape was a mess scheme wise and i think its taking him a bit longer to catch on. I kind of agree on Hill. Seems suited as a sub-package guy at present. Not a fan of TT.

    • Drew

      Did everyone just forget what Earl Thomas’ rookie year look like? Dude was on the verge of getting benched, and he consistently had problems with missed tackles throughout his years. For Thompson being throw into the fire, he wasn’t a total liability out there. Did he miss some tackles? Yes. Did he get beat a few times? Yes.

      But from how he actually played to what you make it sound like is that the guy can’t play at all. I agree he needs to improve, but he any where near as bad as you make it sound.

      • JimQ

        IIRC, Kam was a big time understudy of Lawyer Malloy in his 1-st season & learned his lessons well with that mentoring by an old & wise SS. Of course, the basics of playing DB & all of the little tricks of the trade are taught by our DB guru, PC.

        I suspect ET wasn’t a very good mentor for the younger DB’s, delaying their development a little?

    • Hawksince77

      This is an interesting and important debate, and as an outsider (I don’t have a strong opinion – thus my interest) it would be helpful if both sides could provide something more than “he’s terrible” or “a decent #2”. Are there any facts to support either contention? A reasonable argument or rationale for the opinions? I recall somewhere reading that Griffin was ranked second to last in the league. Do I remember that correctly? And is the source of that rating credible?

      That kind of thing.

      • Hawksince77

        I seem to recall another stat: Thomas had more picks in some given time than the rest of the secondary combined. Is that true?

      • Rob Staton

        I think the most rationale thing to do is look at Pete Carroll’s long list of success stories, give him the props he’s due and the young players on the roster currently some time.

        • Hawksince77

          While the past is a decent predictor of the future, we are dealing with a unique historical situation (as we do we every new league year). It’s reasonable to question how well last year’s secondary performed, if nothing else to gage how much improvement is necessary (assuming our collective eye test is correct, and last year’s secondary well under par for a PC-led team) in order to field the excellent secondary we have come to expect.

          For instance, how does TT’s first year starting compare to Thomas’s? And given what we have seen, and measured, what improvement do we think is reasonable? Now Thomas was a rookie, and drafted in the top half of the first round, so making any kind of direct comparisons may not be fair, but as fans, we don’t have to be fair. We want a championship team.

          As for Griffen, how far did his play fall off from year one to year two? Or did it? It seems like it did, but is there any proof we can offer? And if so, why did his play fall off, moving from one side to the other? Any analysis available?

          As for Tre Flowers, I recall seeing analysis demonstrating amazing performance as a rookie who changed positions. But in terms of the league, how did he perform? Again, what can we project?

          Finally, for the few games that Hill played, I recall reading that fans were enthusiastic. But in comparable terms, what does that mean? How does he rank compared to Kam, say (who was actually drafted later than Hill, if memory serves).

          The entire point of the discussion is to understand the need, or the possibility, of upgrading any of the positions in the coming draft. I understand that the house word on this topic is no – PC likes his secondary more than we do. But does that end the discussion, as if it has been definitively decided?

          • Rob Staton

            I found that to be a seriously problematic read Hawksince77. And I have to say, further evidence of the issue we have as a fan base now.

            I don’t think we should be trying to compare Tedric’s first year starting with Earl Thomas’. We’re talking about a top-15 pick and a fourth rounder — and two very different types of athletes/players.

            This is the point I was making earlier. Nobody should be trying to repeat Earl Thomas level safety play. You might as well say, ‘we should compare every young offensive lineman to Walter Jones’. No, you shouldn’t.

            And then you mention Hill and Kam. No. Stop it. Let these guys develop into their own players. They’re all different. Different athletes, personalities, roles.

            Nobody is ever going to work out here or be given a chance if all you do is compare them to the greatest secondary to ever play the game.

            They’re their own guys.

            Nobody is trying to end a discussion. I’m just looking at this fan base and the words that spring to mind are ‘entitled’, ‘impatient’, ‘demanding’ and ‘overly critical of the best coach this team has ever had’.

            Pete has a proven track record with DB’s. Let the man coach his guys. Competition will be added, we all know that. I’ve mocked safeties and corners to Seattle consistently in the seven rounders. I think it’s a 100% record in that regard, actually. So nobody is saying they’re ‘just fine’. But saying Carroll hasn’t done anything with DB’s for years and the new guys aren’t good enough after a handful of starts is silly.

            • Hawksince77

              A few things:

              1 – the only reason I entered this discussion is because it is very hard for me to evaluate secondary play, and the only arguments being made were based on faith (“trust PC”) and vague evaluations (“he was bad” etc.). The only reason I brought up Kam or Thomas is because as a fan base, we know their level of play. When I write to compare them, it’s not to argue that we should only accept players of that caliber. It’s meant to gauge where the current players are in terms of their ability. It also serves as a measure in how TT or Hill may reach, or not reach, that level of play, and what they would have to do to do so. This could be measured in terms of missed tackles (or tackles); interceptions, sacks, tackles for a loss, big plays, missed assignments, etc. There is a rational way to have this discussion, and that’s what I am proposing.

              2 – In no where did I indicate your summary:

              “But saying Carroll hasn’t done anything with DB’s for years and the new guys aren’t good enough after a handful of starts is silly.”

              What I said was:

              “It’s reasonable to question how well last year’s secondary performed,”

              and this:

              “The entire point of the discussion is to understand the need, or the possibility, of upgrading any of the positions in the coming draft.”

              That’s what I am interested in understanding better. I make no assertions about PC’s ability, or what the future might bring.

              3 – These are literally discussion stopping comments, from the person who can enforce them:

              “I think it’s time to slow things down here. Too critical.”

              How can things be too critical? People have opinions about the play of Seattle’s secondary different from yours. It seems to me that as long as people remain respectful, and attempt to support their statements with arguments or facts, they shouldn’t told to “slow down”. Does that mean they shouldn’t be expressed?

              “And then you mention Hill and Kam. No. Stop it.”

              Comparing Kam and Hill is perfectly apposite – they play(ed) the same position on the same team. How they differ is completely relevant, even if one is significantly better than the other (should that be the case). Understanding how not having Kam (or Thomas or Sherman) effects the defense is a perfectly reasonable topic. Because that is what I am really getting to: how does the defense adjust if there are no reasonable prospects to match Kam and Thomas’s play. What should the team do, what can they do, what is most likely, if PC is going to field the sort of defense he wants.

              Just to make clear, so there is no confusion, I repeat:

              …how does the defense adjust if there are no reasonable prospects to match Kam and Thomas’s play. What should the team do, what can they do, what is most likely, if PC is going to field the sort of defense he wants.

              • Rob Staton

                1. The evaluations aren’t being made on ‘only faith’. It’s a discussion in the comments section not a full 1000-2000 word article. The assertions from the OP have been met with a suitable response — that it’s too early to judge them after a handful of starts and if there’s anyone who can develop them it’s the best DB coach in the NFL. That’s not a lazy claim to faith. That’s about as well reasoned as the discussion deserves.

                2. You’re still trying to compare Hill/Thompson’s progress to players who are legends. What if they take three years to work it out? Stuff like that happens all the time. I’d encourage everyone to stay WELL AWAY from even mentioning Kam and Earl in any shape or form. As I said before — you’d never judge the progress of a rookie offensive lineman on the basis of ‘how is he developing in relation to the way Walter Jones developed’. So let’s not do that with the safeties.

                3. My comment about Carroll having not done anything in years was in relation to the OP. He said: “Pete hasn’t developed a top notch secondary player in quite a long time.” Which is incorrect given Justin Coleman’s progress and now hefty salary plus the promising first year of Tre Flowers and Bradley McDougald’s ascension. Before that we had three possible HOFers starting and Carroll has noted — that intimidated many of the players they added and limited opportunities.

                4. Saying Pete hasn’t done anything in years and that a bunch of guys who’ve had a handful of starts aren’t good enough is too critical. The discussion among Seahawks fans on the internet is, in my opinion, absolutely dreadful these days. Seahawks Twitter is a complete disaster zone for the most part. The forums are a shadow of their former selves. There’s so much melodrama, bad takes and immature nonsense out there. Loads of good Seahawks minds aren’t commenting any more or posting publicly. And we’re seeing an influx of this ‘what have you done for me lately’ talk among some fans which stinks of entitlement. In my opinion, one of the absolute best things about this place is the perspective provided. I think there’s a reason why a lot of people in this community say it’s not like other forums and websites. One of the main reasons, in my view, is the ability to cut through the stuff like this and bring some perspective and realism and sensibility to the discussion. And to stay on track.

                Quite frankly, I don’t want the comments section veering off on some long debate about the merits of Pete Carroll as a defensive backs coach. Because that would be a waste of time. Likewise, people coming on to say the secondary stinks, that Tre Flowers ‘could be average’ one day etc. No thanks. And if people don’t like that and want to kick off and call me a nob head then they can. But I’ve managed this place for 11 years and I’m happy with it.

                As for how does the defense adjust — we already saw last year. They didn’t have Kam and Earl. They played McDougald at SS and Tedric at FS. They might start with McDougald at FS and Hill at SS next year. They might utilise three safety looks as they did last year at times. And we’ll see the same nickel in base more often than not.

                But the guys are going to get a chance to develop. Pete’s a good developer of DB talent. They will add competition via the draft. Not sure there’s anywhere else we need to go.

    • GoHawksDani

      I agree with you on a couple of things:
      1, I feel Griffin won’t be Sherm (couple of guys in the media and elsewhere compared him to Sherm in his rookie year, even said he might be better than Sherman). He has skills, but he lacks the ball skills. He won’t have 6-7+ INT years. He might be better with experience, but he lacks the inner feel for the game (yeah, it’ll be upgraded with years to come, but I feel he has a moderate ceiling on that). I also think Griffin should be CB2. He could be great/good at that, but currently he’s an OK/mediocre CB1

      2, I’m not a Flowers fan. Everyone thought he’d be (if we’d use some scoring here) a 2/10, bad CB, because he was safety previously. He was like 5,5/10, which is a +3,5 points higher than the expectations. Now I feel everyone thinks he’ll jump another 3,5 points and be a 9/10 star player. I doubt that. I feel he could be better than Griffin tracking the ball, and he’s really long and lean. But he seems slow, and his hips a bit tight. He can cover 4,5+ (40 times) guys well, or guys with moderate agility. On the bright side, I think he can be good covering bigger targets as well. He will be always able to cover a David Moore type player, but I doubt he could ever cover Lockett/ADB.

      3, I don’t get the “Hill-love” all of the sudden. He wasn’t really bad at the end of the year. But I feel he has low ceiling. And I’m not even sure if he’s an FS or SS. And not because he’s OK/good/great at both. But he lacks necessary traits for any of these. He’s not awful, but he’s OK at best

      4, T2 just seems too slow. He was always penciled down as a slow dude with great instincts. He lacks the instincts part at the NFL level currently. He might become better, but he won’t be ETIII that’s for sure. I feel there are a ton of better prospects than him in this draft.

      5, You forgot Akeem King. He covered Kelce well. For a game…and now PC thinks he can start at nickel? I think this will blow up on their face. King could be a solid big nickel. He’s more like McDougald then a Coleman type of player.

      So I had my own doubts. BUT these guys will get better. I’m like 98% sure none of them will be HoFer, and they likely won’t be even a pro bowl caliber guys. But they are also not that awful. They won’t generate 14+ turnovers, but they also won’t burned bad regularly.

      • Rob Staton

        I stopped reading this after the words… “I’m not a Flowers fan.”

        Seahawks fans, 2019.


  25. Trevor

    I went last night and watch 3 Miss St games from last year to try and watch Sweat and Abrams. But wow Jeffery Simmons is a beast. He was the best player on that defense and it wasn’t even close. In the SEC he was still a man amongst boys. It is a shame he had that ugly incident in high school because wow he is an incredible talent. He is like a slightly more athletic Suh. I think talent wise he is the best defensive player in this draft class followed closely by Bosa and Q Williams. Only behind Kyler Murray overall.

    He was double teamed on basically every snap and still dominated. I know the Hawks never take an injured player and he should take a red shirt year and come back 100% healthy in 2020 but wow he would look incredible on the Hawks DL.

    If the Hawks Trade Frank and pick up more draft capital then trade back into the late 1st from #21 then I really hope they will be consider Simmons. All indications are he should bounce back from the ACL and there was no nerve damage. If you picked him in the late 1st early 2nd you are basically getting a top 5 talent from the 2020 draft.

    Also if you know you have Simmons on your DL in 2020 the negation with Jarran Reed is a lot easier.

    • jujus

      I am all in on trading Frank for a 1st, Trading that pick back a few times and selecting Simmons late in the 1st.

      • jujus

        Imagine if we could pull off

        1 Terry McClaurin
        2 Simmons
        3 Hill
        3 Nelson
        3 Oline
        4 Justin Hollins
        5 Trevon Wescoe
        6 Derrick Thomas
        7 Jalen Hurd

        • GoHawksDani

          Wesco won’t be there in the 5th. Just watched WVU-Okhaloma, Wesco played awesome. He seems like a better 6th lineman than Fant, a really good security blanket as a receiver, has good hands, can block good, probably can be used as an FB also. Really safe prospect with OK/good ceiling and ton of potential in different roles

  26. Sea Mode

    Yikes… (for Hawks/Frank)

    Jane Slater

    For context on the DeMarcus Lawrence situation, a source informed tells me #Cowboys “aren’t even close on any number” as it pertains to yearly salary and guaranteed.

    What player wants? Take Von Miller’s deal, multiply by the cap growth of 22 % since 2016 & the deal is done.

    7:35 AM – 28 Mar 2019

    Von got 6 yrs/$114m, $70m guaranteed. A 22% increase would mean Lawrence wants 6yrs/$140m, $85m guaranteed. That’s $23.3m/apy!

    I hope:
    1. The Cowboys don’t reset the market like that.
    2. Frank Clark realizes he is not Von Miller.

    • Aaron

      If Frank wants north of $20mil/yr then he gone after 2019

    • Rob Staton

      Cowboys should just take the tag away. Move on. I would.

      All this nonsense. Let him find out on the market nobody’s willing to pay that.

      • Trevor

        Agree. Didn’t Caroline do that with Josh Norman one year. Could they trade him or does being on a 2nd tag make that harder?

  27. Rob4q

    I’ve played around with some of the draft simulators over the years and they are fun, but the amount of knowledge here from Rob and all the contributors is just awesome! I find myself coming here multiple times a day to view all the comments! Love the content Rob!

    Anyway, here is my ultimate Seahawks mock:

    Original Picks
    R1 (21)
    R3 (84)
    R4 (124)
    R5 (159)

    Sea trades 21, 84 to NE for 32, 64, 101, 246
    (975 vs 956.9)

    Sea trades 32 to NYG for 37, 132, 171
    (590 vs 594)

    R2 (37) – Paris Campbell, WR Ohio State
    R2 (64) – Trysten Hill, DL UCF
    R3 (101) – Anthony Nelson, EDGE Iowa
    R4 (124) – Evan Worthington, S Colorado
    R4 (132) – Justin Hollins, OLB Oregon
    R5 (159) – Trevon Wesco, TE West Virginia
    R6 (171) – Lester Cotton Jr, OG Alabama
    R7 (246) – Jaylen Smith, WR Louisville

    Trades –
    NE has a ton of picks and needs to move up to secure one of the top 3 TE and with Hockenson already gone, they want either Fant or Smith Jr. Sea has to sacrifice some value here for overall qty of picks. This trade works without the added 7th rounder too, but JS pushes to get Belichick to include it!

    When the NYG don’t use one of their two 1st round picks on a QB, they get roasted by the media and fans! Then as day one is coming to a close, Duke QB Daniel Jones is sitting there so they make the move up to grab him with the last pick of the 1st round!

    • Sea Mode

      Nice mock. If we could pull off those trades and still get those first two players, that would be amazing!

      I haven’t looked at Worthington, but his performance at the Combine honestly didn’t give me much incentive to do so. Neither fast, nor quick, nor explosive. What do you see in him?

      I was high on Jaylen Smith last year. Thought he should have come out with Lamar Jackson If he lasts until late on day 3, that would still be a great pickup. He looked a whole lot better when Jackson was throwing to him than he did this past season. Wouldn’t be surprised if BAL took a shot on him, actually.

      • Rob4q

        Thanks Sea Mode!

        Those first two picks were my goal with this mock – lock up Hill and Campbell and I think they will both be Rd 2.

        Worthington has great size and ability, juts needs to be coached up and trust it. He ran better at his pro day, I think I saw 4.54? I think he’ll be a much better pro than he was in college and he has his head on straight after having some issues in 2016. I read about him being a team leader for Colorado this season and really improved. He’s going to get drafted a lot earlier than most are predicting because of his size/speed/ball skills. He had some incredible plays along with some real bone head ones…but the size/length/talent is there…not quite as big as Kam but could end up playing a similar role.

        • Trevor

          I agree Rob if they could lock up Hill and either of the two Ohio St WR I would be really happy with the draft given how little capital they have.

          • Rob4q

            Exactly Trevor! I do think they covet the skill set that Campbell offers more than McLaurin, but both are great WR talents as Rob as has pointed out here.

            Maybe a better comparison for Worthington would be Bradley McDougald?

            Matty Brown just posted an interesting piece over at FG about the ‘Hawks trading back twice. I really think that’s how they are going to add picks this draft.

    • GoHawksDani

      Give me Campbell, Hill and Wesco and I don’t even mind who are all of the other guys 😀 But jokes apart, I like the Nelson pick too. Hollins seem like an interesting prospect. I’m not really familiar with the rest of the guys

  28. Sea Mode

    Oliver with the SS as fast as 4.19 per Pauline! 😲

    • Trevor

      My hot take is that the Raiders will take Oliver at #4

      • Volume12

        As dumb as it sounds, I think he lasts longer. His floor will probably be like 12-15.

        There’s been guys who have had the tape, production, athletic testing, impressed at the SR bowl who have been better players that lasted longer.

        I just hope him testing this way doesn’t automatically make him a better player in some people’s eyes because while 4.19 might not have been evident, his tape shows a very, very good athlete

        • Trevor

          I have always thought he was a top 10 talent. just needs a coach who knows how to use him.

          • Volume12

            Oh I didn’t mean your opinion of him as a prospect has changed. Sorry if it came across that way.


    • Rob Staton

      That’s an exceptional time.

      Everyone’s making a fuss about his forty but in reality it’s in the ‘decent’ not ‘outsanding’ category. It’s the short shuttle that’s the headline here.

  29. Kenny Sloth


  30. Madmark

    What I do know is Seattle will try to trade down twice and put themselves in a position to take their first pick early in the 2nd round and pickup a couple of picks. The perfect scenario would be to get a 3rd and a 4th rounder for trade down and the to grab Trysten Hill DT from UCF because that is the biggest need right now. His combine numbers just scream Seahawk and I believe they see him as the best 2nd round talent that they can get there hands in this draft for the DL. My only hope is this guy doesn’t ride ATVs.

  31. RWIII

    Mad: My hope is that Hill doesn’t take up sky diving in the off season.

  32. Volume12

    There are more UDFAs in the NFL than 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks combined. A 3rd of NFL rosters are made up of picks from ’round 8.’

    • Logan Lynch

      Honestly, I think going undrafted helps some guys. Lights a fire under them. Maybe if they had been taken in the 5th round, they would’ve taken the pedal off the gas a bit…figured they’d made it since they were drafted.

  33. cha

    Dolphins just traded for Robert Quinn. Rapsheet says probably a future late-round pick involved.

    • cha

      *Dallas just traded for Robert Quinn.

  34. Volume12

    Hell yeah!

    Juan Thornhill said he has a visit scheduled with Seattle.

    • Volume12

      The prototype for Seahawk draft prospects, Michigan’s Rashan Gary, has a visit with Seattle

      • dylanlep

        Yay! to Thornhill. Nay! to Gary, though i doubt he lasts anyways.

        • Volume12

          I’m not a huge Gary can either. Definitely things I like about him though.

          He probably doesn’t last, although for me his tape is late 1, but might as well get to know him if he does. They love swinging for the fences with that 1st overall pick.

          There’s gonna be chaos as always in Round 1 this year. There’ll be guys taking before they should and guys lasting longer than they should.

      • clbradley17

        Gary seems like a wasted visit, should go top ten, especially after running in the 4.5s at the combine at 277. But Thornhill could be a good pick if he lasts until one of our possibly 3 3rds after trading down at least twice. Had 6 interceptions as a senior (13 in 3 years), has also played CB in addition to safety, and displayed crazy athleticism at the combine, running a 4.4 40 with a 44″ vert. and almost a 12′ broad jump (141″).

        • Volume12

          Theoretically if they have 3 thirds and they end up loving one of these safeties, why wouldn’t they package one of those thirds and come get one of those safeties if he’s still there after moving UP into round 2?

        • Sea Mode

          Gary might be a case of what I posted above that Jake Heaps was talking about: the Hawks love to get “reps” at evaluating top guys with question marks. Give them a grade and projection just to practice and see down the road if they were right or wrong:

          Plus, there is always the possibility they can’t work something out with Clark or get blown away by a trade offer for Russ. Suddenly, you have a high pick this year and need to be prepared on the guys in that early range.

      • Rob Staton

        That’s interesting if anyone wants to think about a possible future trade… because Gary isn’t getting out of the top-10.

    • Trevor

      Pete may say they are happy with the Safety position but they sure are looking at a lot of them.

      • Volume12

        Yup. And of course he’d say that. Isn’t gonna throw his young guys (Hill & Teddy) under the bus. They looked at a few Round 2 guys last year, but Earl was never moved. He ain’t here no more.

  35. clbradley17

    Rob, where can we find info about the lowest to highest fumble % by FBS running backs for the 2018 season? I remember seeing you posting it last year, and USC’s Ronald Jones had one of the lowest fumble %s in 2017. Found an article about last year’s fumble rates for the running back prospects –

    • Sea Mode

      I mean, I just look at their stats. Number of carries divided by number of fumbles is their “fumble %”, right? Or am I missing something?

      • DCD2

        He’s probably trying to sort through all RB’s rather than look at one individual.

    • Rob Staton

      I think I saw it on Twitter last year.

  36. Sea Mode

    Interesting read. Punters are people too…😉:

  37. Idaho Seahawk

    We need a receiver that can burn Richard Sherman of Frisco. Make him wish he was still a Seahawk.

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