Seahawks sign Carlos Hyde, create more questions

Carlos Hyde is a better option than Devonta Freeman.

They’re similarly aged. Hyde had a 1,070 yard season in Houston last year at 4.4 YPC — scoring six touchdowns. In comparison, Freeman had 656 yards at 3.6 YPC and scored only two touchdowns.

He was also cut at the cost of a $6m dead cap hit so the Falcons could roll the dice on Todd Gurley instead.

If you’re going to spend money on a veteran running back, Hyde feels like the superior option. Yet as we know — Seattle went after Freeman first. All’s well that ends well I suppose.

However — he’s going to cost up to $4m in 2020 which begs the question — why?

‘Why?’ is the word to define Seattle’s off-season. There are so many questions. This is merely the latest.

It’s the 22nd of May. Free agency is long gone by now. Very little is going on aside from the odd low-level move.

Hyde clearly didn’t have much of a market at all. Was there any competition for his signature? There’s been no talk, no reported interest. It’s now emerged he underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in February.

So why is he receiving a contract worth more than the veteran minimum?

They’ve already signed Phillip Dorsett and Chance Warmack to the veteran minimum. Neiko Thorpe, Geno Smith and Luke Willson also returned for the same salary. Maybe they should’ve asked for a bit more?

If Hyde was taking the position of refusing to sign for anything less than a contract that can reach $4m — don’t you just move on?

I like Hyde. I’ve always liked him — dating back to when he was a second round pick in 2014. He’s a decent addition to a team that badly needed an extra running back.

Yet how vital is this signing that you’re unwilling to wait it out, or wait Freeman out, in the same way you’ve waited out Jadeveon Clowney or Everson Griffen or the defensive tackles?

Which other team was bumping the price up?

What leverage did Hyde have for a deal worth up to $4m? It’s as confusing as Bruce Irvin’s 32% salary increase, bumping Cedric Ogbuehi’s pay from $895,000 to $2.237m based on 155 snaps in Jacksonville, the decision to spend $3.259m on Jacob Hollister despite investing $7m in Greg Olsen and then drafting two tight ends and paying $25m for two linebackers — only to use your first round pick on the position.

If Hyde reaches the $4m peak, they’ll have spent $58.25m on these players this off-season:

Jarran Reed $9.35m
Greg Olsen $6.9m
Bruce Irvin $5.9m
Carlos Hyde $4m
B.J. Finney $3.5m
Brandon Shell $3.475m
Quinton Dunbar $3.421m
Jacob Hollister $3.259m
Benson Mayowa $3.018m
Mike Iupati $2.5m
Cedric Obuehi $2.237m
Joey Hunt $2.1m
Branden Jackson $2.1m
David Moore $2.1m
Geno Smith $887,500
Neiko Thorpe $887,500
Luke Willson $887,500
Phillip Dorsett $887,500
Chance Warmack $887,500

At the same time, they’ve shied away from investing properly in the pass rush. They haven’t even replaced Al Woods yet, despite loading up at various other positions.

The defensive line sticks out like a very sore thumb. The Seahawks came into the off-season with major problems up front and they’re now relying on Benson Mayowa, Bruce Irvin and rookies to solve the problem — while losing their one effective linemen in the process.

They’ve frittered money and resources away. There are questions all over the roster — from the pass rush to the O-line to the secondary to the health of the running backs. They’re well stocked at linebacker and so they should be for the incredible price they’re paying at the position — but will those linebackers be able to perform if the D-line can’t keep them clean?

The sheer fact that in late May they still have so many areas to address is itself a point that needs to be raised. How many of the other contending teams are left needing to work overtime into the summer to fill this many holes? The Seahawks might’ve filled two needs this week (QB, RB) but they’re still lacking in other areas.

A year ago if it wasn’t for the generosity of the Houston Texans, they would’ve started the season with Ziggy Ansah, Barkevious Mingo, Cassius Marsh and Jacob Martin as their primary pass rushing threat. You’re not going to receive a beneficial trade offer every year to bail you out right before the season starts.

This was an off-season that started with Russell Wilson calling for superstars and Pete Carroll and John Schneider stressing the need to fix the pass rush.

It’s hard to see how that turned into the moves that followed.

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  1. Sea Mode

    Since people are asking if this closes the door on any other moves (i.e. Clowney), the answer IMO is no. Continuing from the end of last thread:

    They don’t have a lot of cap space as it stands right now, but they can make up to $12.7m by re-structuring RW if needed, plus the other oft-mentioned cut candidates:

    – Hollister: $3.25m (we have too many TEs, he might even fetch a late-round pick)
    – Dunbar: $3.25m (depending on how that whole situation turns out)
    – Joey Hunt: $2.1m (could roll with Pocic as backup instead of him. He’d probably remain available on the ghost roster)
    – Branden Jackson: $2.1m (I think they would like to keep him, but Alton Robinson could replace his snaps)
    – David Moore: $2.1m (Josh Gordon takes his snaps, Dallas takes his ST duties)
    – Lano Hill: $800k (Blair and Amadi can be enough depth)

    Total= $13.6m.

    So that’s up to $26.3m so far, plus another $10.5m if needed from a couple less oft-mentioned options:

    – KJ Wright: $6.5m ($3.5m dead. I know it might seem cold, he’s a “legend”, etc. but the NFL is a business and everyone knows it. We have the young guys and/or vets to take his snaps.)
    – McDougald: $4m ($1.3m dead. He has played well and is a leader. But if we need the cap space, Diggs can be the new leader, and they might want to feature their R2 pick from last year anyways)

    They can make things happen if they want, and it might be good for them to force themselves to get some of the young guys on the field anyways.

    • Rob Staton

      I can’t see Wright or McDougald being cut. Yeah it’s a business. But that’s not Seattle’s style. There’s no way they’d cut them in May or June or July and just say, ‘sorry lads… we’ve screwed your chances of latching on anywhere else but what are you going to do?’. Plus they love both players and, rightly or wrongly, have seemingly determined they are worth their salaries.

      Their path to create more money is the Jackson, Moore, Hill, Dunbar, Hollister route you mentioned. But we shouldn’t need to be sat here penny pinching from the players they’ve already re-signed in order to address their biggest need of the off-season. That’s an incredible position to be in. Especially when you’ve already spent nearly SIXTY MILLION.

      • Hoggs41

        They may not cut them but they could still trade them. Not saying it would happen but that wouldnt be just taking there job away. I have a feeling we will make a late camp trade.

        • Rob Staton

          They’re not trading them either.

    • millhouse-serbia

      Yes they could create more money. But firstly if they cut those 6 players its not 13.6 mil. Its 13.6 -750k*6 so its more like 9mil.

      But why would they cut them? They sign them without someone point gun to their hads to do that. I think this os 100% correct way of thinking:

      But we shouldn’t need to be sat here penny pinching from the players they’ve already re-signed in order to address their biggest need of the off-season

      You know my opinion, and every single move they made I am more convinced i was right. They moved on from Clowney long time ago. They are happy with their DE’s. They have 1-2mil in true cap space right now. They will sign one more DT. And thats it.

      I just cant see why you still think they are waiting for big name DE? I would love to know yours reason for that @seamode.

      <Yet how vital is this signing that you’re unwilling to wait it out, or wait Freeman out, in the same way you’ve waited out Jadeveon Clowney or Everson Griffen or the defensive tackles?

      And.with this, I completely disagree…Rob, what are signs that, at this moment, makes you think they waited out Clowney or Griffen? They spend almost almost all of their cap space and they have five or six DE(depends how you look at Irvin) all projected to be at final 53 roster…

      I completely understand your point of view that they didnt address their biggest need very well (or better to say they did it pretty bad)…but.i really think there is no more reason to dont accept that they think they addressed it enough and they dont have plans to sign anyone else (except something really “generous” happens before the season)…

      • dcd2

        You’re on the right track in terms of cap Millhouse, but it’s probably 6*$610k as Parkinson, DeeJay, Lewis, etc. will be the guys filling in the back end of the roster.

        I agree with SeaMode, that it is possible to still squeeze Clowney in, but it gets trickier with each new signing. Especially $3-4M signing’s. That being said, it does seem like they have moved on. There’s still room to make it work, but this does feel like a “Look, we’ve given you the best offer in the league. You said you want to play for a contender and said you like Seattle. We’ve waited and waited, but the show must go on.”

        Frankly, I’m not sure just what exactly Clowney is hoping to gain at this point. Then again, I’m not sure I know what John is doing either.

  2. Jackson

    You simply can’t convince me that Hyde will produce up to $3.3 million more value than either Dallas or Homer in a backup role. This is just such a poor use of limited available resources while the glaring hole in the pass rush still remains unfilled.

  3. Troy

    I’m happy with the Hyde signing, with Carson, Penny, and Hyde, our backfield should be set next year. Homer/Dallas would be a bonus if they show any promise.

    What I am unhappy with is the pass rush. What the fuck man, how did we manage to miss out on every single premier DE and DT in the league? We had a lot of cap space!

    I’m holding out hope that JS pulls another trade out of his ass for Yannick (at terms agreeable to us), or someone else of quality as I just don’t see an end to the Clowney debacle.

  4. BruceN

    Great signing. I’ve liked him since his 49er days and he fits our style of power running. He can get the tough yards. As for the $4M price tag, the key word is up to. I bet this is loaded with incentives and he would hit them only if Carson gets re-injured and Penny doesn’t make it back by mid-season. If Hyde becomes our workhorse. I don’t see that happening. We’ll find out soon enough about the details of this deal.

  5. TomLPDX

    I’m happy to see them finally addressing the other positions of need that we HAVE TO fill before the season starts. Geno and now Carlos are good additions to our team to get ready for the next season. Price can be argued. We STILL haven’t addressed our biggest need and for some reason I don’t thin we will.

  6. Jeff

    I’ve been wanting to float this idea for a while now. But this signing finally put me over the top.
    What if this is JS/PC’s plan for a year without fans in the stands? No fans means no noise, means no home field advantage where the defense gets it’s advantage.
    Last year we were able to win on the road. And most of it was because of Russ and the offense.
    Anyway, just throwing a theory out there.
    Thanks Rob for this great content. You’ve made my quarantine much more bearable.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m not sure how a plan to play without fans means… frittering money away.

  7. pdway

    I think it’s a solid signing given the uncertainty around Penny. Homer was fine, but wasn’t an answer. And Dallas looks good in highlights, but is also a 4th round rookie.

    In terms of whether its an overpay – my counter to your points is that we don’t really know the inside info of what other offers he had on the table. all the articles also say ‘up to $4M’, so we don’t know whether this is more like a $2.5M deal w playing and performance incentives.

    I still believe that if we have the chance to sign Clowney, we’ll move pieces around and get it done. NFL teams nearly always figure it out. In the meantime, we get a proven back coming off a solid year, who fills a position of need for a team that needs to run the ball to be successful.

  8. Strategicdust

    This offseason has been one WTF moment after the next. Sixty million for role players and they still haven’t fixed what was their own admitted priority.

    • millhouse-serbia

      Obviously, they think they fixed it. When season starts, or better to say, when season ends, we will see who was right…them or almost everyone else…

      • HAWKTALKER#1

        I don’t think it’s obvious at all. Right now the pooch is still yelping from being screwed.

  9. mishima

    I like the Reed, Finney, Shell signings? This is me being positive.

    • pdway

      I’m actually fine w most of the signing this off-season. Honestly, the only one that truly sticks out in a money vs value sense is Olsen. Maybe he’s got more left than I think. I think the Irvin signing isn’t crazy above market for a guy coming off 8.5 sacks, and I understand feeling the need to do something as a safety net at the position.

      All the rest of the signing are low-risk, decent veterans. Some, like Dunbar and Dorsett – seem like decent bets to outperform their salary levels.

      we’re all frustrated that Clowney is in limbo, and the pass rush remains the biggest hole on the team. I get that. But until the Clowney chip falls (and I still have some faith it will go our way) – I don’t have big critiques of the players they’ve picked up.

  10. Rob Staton

    Coming tomorrow — my take on what the Seahawks off-season could’ve been.

    Written and ready to roll.

    • mishima

      Going full stan: Agree with everything.

    • dcd2

      I have a feeling this is going to be harsh, true and depressing.

      • HAWKTALKER#1

        It should be, that is reality right now.

      • Rob Staton

        I think people will be shocked at what could’ve been done, realistically.

  11. Ryanp

    I’d love to see a “Pollyanna” view of their current offseason as well. Come on, Rob! Put on some rose colored glasses for a bit!

    • Rob Staton

      I will not wear those glasses, sir.

      Look — I know some people aren’t enjoying these pieces. Rest assured I don’t want to write them.

      But what do you really want from this blog? Me not being honest? Me trying to tell you everything’s peachy when it’s not? Me focusing on irrelevant things simply to provide a slither of positivity?

      Or do you want me to call things as I see it? So that when I am positive or negative, it has more effect? That it actually means something, instead of being a cheerleader or a doom and gloom merchant 100% of the time?

      • TomLPDX

        You’re good, Rob. Just be you…that’s the main reason we come here so we can have honest discussions.

      • pdway

        100% think you should be honest. I come here for info/analysis – but also for a point of view. And you definitely bring that.

        I don’t agree w you about everything – which is of course fine – makes it more interesting actually.

        Here’s one such area – – I’ll say this – my entire job is about negotiating. And I’m near 20 years in – negotiating deals that are not all that dissimilar to the ones we talk about here on this blog. The easiest thing for people at my company to do – is to look at a closed deal, and say some version of, ‘Great that you closed on X, we like X, but why didn’t you get it for $YYY less?’ And the reasons why are often complicated, but often come down to supply/demand, and the fact that X probably had some version of me negotiating on his/her behalf, and that person isn’t incompetent, etc. Leverage in negotiations is fluid, and it’s really hard to have perfect information on what other options the other person has.

        All that is to say – that if you like the Hyde signing (or the Irvin signing), but think the cap hit is too much – I think that’s valid. But if the argument is, we could have had him for less if we’d just done this or that, I find that unpersuasive, unless the point is that the Hawks management are a bunch of incompetent rubes. Which is a stretch, because even w a Russell Wilson, it’s not child’s play to keep a team at this level for this long.

        • DougM

          Where would the Hawks be today if they weren’t fortunate enough to draft Russell
          Wilson? Would they have as many winning seasons as they have had? Would they make the playoffs even with the LOB? Would PCJS still be here? Have they given Russell that much help over the years?
          The fact that they have been so successful is largely due to Russell Wilson and is a testament to how good he is.

      • SilverHawk5

        We will not go into the season without a significant pass rush addition. Mark my words. John/Pete, the Seahawks, are unconventional and yes maddening through the conventional lense. That said, I am 100% certain that there will be a significant pass rush addition before training camp.

        • Rob Staton

          And how are they paying for it?

          With magic beans?

      • Kenny Sloth

        Lie to me Rob

    • dcd2

      Here you go Ryan:

      The Seahawks entered this off-season with a number of holes, some of which remain to be filled. Yet, the mantra of the PCJS era has always been “Win Forever”.

      Taking a look at how the roster shapes up for next year, we will be losing KJ to retirement. Enter Mr. Brooks. The most well-rounded LB of the 2020 draft.

      We’ve seen that Dissly can’t stay healthy and know that rookie TE learning curves are among the steepest in the NFL. John went out and grabbed a TE with Pro-bowl pedigree and then drafted a TE who many had pegged as a potential 1st rounder (pre-season) in the 4th. Olsen fills the roll and next year, parkinson fills that void.

      Leo is the position that Pete tabbed as an important missing piece to the defense. Well, we went out and signed two FA’s that are coming off solid years, and have a familiarity with the system. On top of that, we drafted two more LEO’s, who the scouts think highly of.

      Clowney was a priority, and when everyone said “pay him whatever he wants”, John held his water. He correctly viewed the market as being closer to $10M than $20M and held out as long as possible. In fact, we can still get him in under the cap if he comes to his senses.

      We traded a shot-in-the-dark 5th round pick for a potential starting CB. We’ll see what shakes out with the legal issues, but if he indeed is exonerated, it’s a great pickup. In base 4-3 he’s our RCB, and when we go to Nickel, Dunbar slides inside and Flowers takes the outside. Efficiency at its finest.

      Lastly, while people quibble and nitpick over the resources spent on the OL, it is quite possibly a cheaper/younger/better version of last year. El “Ced” was a former 1st rounder, while Finney is a comparable talent to Britt at half the cost. Shell is equal to Fant and again at half the cost. The rest of them can step in the cage and sort out who really wants to be a member of our OL.

      There you have it Ryan. Spun with all the optimism I can muster.


      • Ryan

        Thanks for that! Rob, I would never actually want you to write something you did not believe in – except maybe as an exercise or maybe even as a piece of black humor.

      • Michigan 12th

        Well done I couldn’t agree more!

  12. SoCal12

    Rumors are the Jets are seeking a 1st and 3rd for Jamal Adams. Regardless of how valid the rumor is, would you pull the trigger as PCJS?

    • TomLPDX

      Why? We are good at said position for the time being.

      • SoCal12

        McDougald is serviceable, and Blair is still developing. You would get a difference maker at the position that would be the argument for it. I’m not really for it or against it, but I am interested in what people think.

        • BobbyK

          I wouldn’t do it. He’s great, but he’ll be making big bucks soon and the Seahawks need all the young guys at relative minimum contracts they can get. They’re not 1-player away unless that player had a last name like Garrett, Donald, or Bosa.

          • Hoggs41

            I agree, I do t think I would do it. If they dont think Blair is the future then maybe.

    • Matt

      I would absolutely do that. The defense just needs to get better by any means necessary. Adams makes your defense and team better.

      • Volume12

        Same. Him & Fitzpatrick are the 2 best safeties in the game IMO.

  13. ZacScratch

    “Up to” 4 mil is more than I would have liked to spend but I’m glad they got this done. The Eagles and Jets were in the market, as well as other teams we probably dont know about. Freeman is talking about sitting out the season, maybe retirement. Even if that is a bluff he sounds like a guy that wont sign until a week before the season. Do we really want another standoff now? If we missed out on both those RBs it becomes another position of need that we just weren’t aggressive enough to fix. Penny is almost surely going to be Pup’d and we need another RB every single season. And if we truly are waiting out Clowney or Griffen, I don’t think this changes anything.

  14. mishima

    Growing concern is continuity. How do you build continuity and culture with so many short term commitments, a roster of rentals?

    • dcd2

      Really good point. Especially with a shortened off-season.

      “Hey there Shell, I’m Finney, nice to meet you.”

      “I’m Ogbuehi”

      “My bad. Cedric this is our new RG from LSU, Damien Lewis.”

      “I’m Chance Warmack”


      • Kenny Sloth


  15. BobbyK

    This has totally been a Tim Ruskell type off-season. There’s no other way around it. Maybe Ruskell kept a secret key and has taken over the VMAC and nobody knows because of the quarantine. It’s so bizarre. This team usually had a vision and attacked weaknesses. This off-season has been about putting band-aids on wounds that require more attention.

    • Hoggs41

      To me this feels like every off season. They go for value over big names.

      • BobbyK

        Like Sidney Rice, Zach Miller, Sheldon Robinson, Jimmy Graham, Percy Harvin, and Clowney?

        • Jordan

          Of that list only half of them worked out for the team. Again, M. Bennett and Cliff were not big name signings at the time.

  16. Catharsis50

    Maybe it was the Eagles bidding on Hyde against the Hawks.

    Mike Garafolo

    The #Eagles had interest in Carlos Hyde but their offer didn’t entice him. We’ll see what they do from here regarding a veteran to slot in behind Miles Sanders.

    • Rob Staton

      To me it sounds like the Eagles played it right. Read the market and move on.

  17. Ashish

    I like signing even it is bit higher price. He is only true backup to Carson, so even after Penny return he still holds value. Last year lost was because of running back.

  18. Pran

    Hyde is starting week 1. I like it even though bit pricey at 2-2.5m$ Base. Carson can be eased in, Penny will make it only after 6-8 weeks probably for a late season push. Hyde-Carson is 1-1 punch as long as he can at play at last seasons level.

  19. Paul Cook

    Is there one player the Hawks have either signed or drafted that you’re totally jacked about being a high impact player? I don’t have that feeling about anyone, real or with some imagination. Not saying it won’t happen, but more that I would be pleasantly surprised, and give them credit for it.

    They drafted/signed a few players that I liked, Dunbar (before the incident), Lewis (got a good feeling that he could be a long time starter), Olsen (yes, a one year stopgap, but could pay some dividends next season), Brooks (intrigued by his tenacity on tape, potential solid starter for years if healthy). As for Taylor, he sits in my mind as a real hit or miss in terms of solving the long term edge rusher thing. I could easily see him being a nothing special player just as much as a pleasant surprise. Time will tell.

    It’s been a workmanlike off season. Filling holes without much sizzle or bang for the buck.

    I still think that with RW and a little luck we can be a playoff team, however.

    • SilverHawk5

      I felt the same way in 2012. Add one + pass rusher to that list and you start to feel much better about our prospects. It will come. One way or another. It’s coming.

    • dcd2

      Taylor for me. Usually the guys that feel like “reaches” or at least not great value, end up being uninspiring. The guys we’ve moved up for (Reed, Lockett, DK) have been worth it. He’s who I’m most optimistic about.

      That pick seems like the thing they’ve done this off-season with the most conviction and purpose.

    • mishima

      Taylor and Parkinson.

    • Lewis

      > with RW and a little luck we can be a playoff team

      This is exactly the problem which Rob has spelled out. Another year of Russ at his prime and the reasonable expectation at this point is an early playoff exit. I like the draft class and some of the roster moves, but this doesn’t feel like a better team than last year.

  20. charlietheunicorn

    A veteran RB was going to be brought in… I’m ok with it.
    The simple reason they brought in one more guy is that.. in the 2019 season… they flat ran out of RBs on the roster with some very unfortunate serious injuries to multiple guys. Ultimately, Hyde could be a #1 back if you need him to be, unlike everyone but Penny and Carson. Hyde also is a hedge for Penny, incase he doesn’t come back when they expect or he has complications with his significant injury.

    And, Seattle isn’t done yet, they will add a veteran DT soon as well.

  21. SpringsCoHawk

    It appears to me Schneider and Carroll are following pattern of bringing in or keeping veteran starters while preparing for sooner or later future with young players. This strategy may be even more important for immediate season that May not have much training camp for rookies or second year players to get up and running. Example Hyde at RB for veteran back up with Deejay Dallas and (Travis Homer) as young players. Geno Smith and Anthony Gordon, Mayowa and Irvin and Taylor and Robinson, Greg Olsen and Colby Parkinson. This model gives young players time to develop. Warmack and Damien Lewis, Dissly and Sullivan, Iupati and Haynes, KJ wright and Bobby Wanger and Irvin with youngsters Barton, BBK, and now Brooks. We can argue about money spent or plays kept or acquired but I like this principle of sound roster construction. Yeah we need Clowney. Yeah we need DT help. Yes, if Blair and Amadi, Collier and Rasheem Green don’t develop it will a blow….determining our future success or failure.

    • Rob Staton

      How is it sound roster construction to pay $60m dollars and not be noticeably improved?

      • WALL UP

        A question to consider is how much of it is guaranteed? Not all of those will make the final roster.

        • Rob Staton

          People who want to make excuses for this off-season keep making this point but it’s invalid.

          It doesn’t matter if it’s guaranteed or not. You want your cap space available so you can make your moves in free agency. You don’t want it taken up by mediocre players you are then forced to cut much later in the year, simply to be able to field a functioning roster.

          It’s amazing really, how the Ravens were able to quickly and proactively bring in Calais Campbell and then Michael Brockers (before reverting to Derek Wolfe) rather than waste millions on bang average players… who they might be able to cut in June or July so they can… actually have a starting defensive tackle.

          Come on.

    • McZ

      The idea of elderly players being “teachers” is borne out of “Moneyball”. I think it’s genuine and utter bollocks. This is a business, and you don’t teach someone else to take your job.

      • JJ

        One thing I don’t understand about the OL signings is for years we have now been developing guys to take over for veterans (Jones, Haynes), but we then sign all these guys. Either our eye for talent is off or we can’t develop.

        • mishima

          Can see Carroll starting Iupati, Mayowa, Irvin over Haynes, Taylor, Brooks.

  22. Gaux Hawks

    if we’re lucky, maybe we snag turbin, lynch and alexander (and prosise… fingers crossed) to COMPETE in camp… gooooooooooooooooooo seahawks!!

  23. Largent80

    Hyde was 30 yards shy of 1100 yards last year. This was a very good signing for a team in need of an RB with experience. Price ?….The market value is what it is.

    It seems rather obvious that they are pretty much done with the saga of Clowney. Dude has 50 million in the bank, is young, but has said he wants to play for a contender and he likes it in Seattle, but he keeps playing hardball…Sorry, I’m not buying it JD….Just get that DT and roll with what you have (so far). This is uncompleted work so far.

    • Rob Staton

      The market value isn’t what it is.

      There’s no evidence whatsoever that the market value was anything more than the veteran minimum. It’s late May, his market was as flat as a pancake and he’s coming off labrum surgery.

      And maybe they are done with Clowney. If they are, they just failed their off-season then. Because they said bringing him back was a priority. And instead they ended up with Benson Mayowa.

      • UkAlex6674

        Rob so what alternatives at RB are there that fit in with your vet minimum price range?

        • Rob Staton

          Carlos Hyde

          • ZacScratch

            Of course, why pay him up to 4 million when you can pay him 1 million. This is reminiscent of the why draft him in the 1st round when you could have got him in the 3rd. Why would he accept a vet minimum salary now?

            • Rob Staton

              Why would a 30-year-old running back with no market coming off a torn labrum accept the same contract as Phillip Dorsett?

              Yeah, I’m stumped…

              • ZacScratch

                A running back coming off a 1000 yard season will have a market, absolutely. If he wants to play this year he will play this year and since they cant pay less than the vet min it would make zero sense for him to accept that now unless there are other factors. They made the same offer to freeman and he turned it down. Other teams have been connected to him so it makes sense that’s what it took to sign him. Or you let him walk and sign…. ? Productive every down running backs dont often play on vet min salaries. WR is a different situation as there is just so many more of them, Dorsett likely could have squeezed out a bit more money but has said repeatedly that he wanted to play for Seattle. I think its universally accepted that we got a really good deal there, they’re not all going to be like that.

                • Rob Staton

                  I’ve countered all these points already. I’m not just repeating myself again and again.

                  • ZacScratch

                    Fair enough, it’s your blog. I still disagree with you though.

                    • Rob Staton

                      And disagreement is fine.

                      But nobody has sufficiently countered the points I raised about Hyde.

                  • ZacScratch

                    Forgive be for paraphrasing, but you say he’s almost 30, he’s coming off shoulder surgery, there was no market for him, and he could have been had for the vet minimum.

                    I say he’s not 30, it’s a 1 year deal, he’s coming off the best season of his career where he rushed for over 1000 yards, the labrum surgery doesn’t sound too serious as he played through it most of the year, productive 3 down backs always have a market and he’s been recently linked to at least 2 other teams, and ‘up to’ 4 million could mean 2.5 or 3 if Carson/Penny can stay on the field.

                    We both agree that a veteran running back was a need. We probably got the best one available. We also agree that the totality of the off season has been underwhelming, but I dont think this is a bad move.

                    • Rob Staton

                      1. He’s 30 in early September. Come on. You’re being dishonest.

                      2. ‘Labrum surgery doesn’t sound too serious’ 🤦‍♂️

                      3. Linked to two other teams? I’ve seen him linked to one team and he didn’t like their offer because, presumably, they thought like I do.

                  • mishima

                    Good point, but come back to this comment after cuts.

                    IMO, there will be a better/cheaper RB available.

                  • ZacScratch

                    Cheaper? Probably. Better? I’m dubious. I would have loved to spend an extra 2mil to have Hyde in week 15 of last season. Sure that’s unlikely to happen again but we have so many question marks at RB and it’s such a vital position for us. I’m glad we have it sorted now so I can focus all my frustration on the lack of pass rush and what the hell is Clowney thinking?

                • ZacScratch

                  1. My 30 comment was snark, not dishonesty. Despite what people say there is no universal cliff.
                  2. No one has ever come back from labrum surgery. Again, he played through it.
                  3. There were reports from the Eagles and the Jets. And as I said before, a 1000 yard rusher is going to play. If you want him now, you have to pay more than the minimum.

                  • Rob Staton

                    No you don’t.

                    You can’t just assert ‘you have to do something’ and then it’s true.

                  • ZacScratch

                    I said “if you want him now…” so it sounds like you are saying we could have just offered him the league minimum, as it sounds like the Eagles did, and he’d just take it because you asked nicely?

      • Edgar

        I highly doubt Hyde would have signed for the vet minimum after having turned down 2 years 10 mil with the Texans. If he did, is it smart to nickel and dime a vet running back coming off of an 1100 yard season, who 50/50 chance will end up being your #1 back by week 8. The locker room is an important aspect of quality teams, and I think Seattle makes sure the people in it want to be there and feel they are compensated fairly.

        • Rob Staton

          So if a soon-to-be 29-year-old running back coming off a torn labrum who’s had no market and is still available in late May insists he won’t play for a penny less than a deal worth up to $3.2m more than the contract you gave Phillip Dorsett, you cave to his demands.

          But when it comes to paying a few more million to try and fix your pass rush, that’s a big no go.

          That makes sense…

          • ZacScratch

            We really don’t know the specifics on the Clowmey situation. The APR spread has been 13-22 mil. A few million more may not have done it. It’s easy for us to say 18m would have locked it up but in the beginning of free agency I doubt it would have. That whole situation is probably driving the front office more mad than us.

          • Edgar

            Dorsett is’t even a lock to make the team. Hyde is a 10-12 carry 1B to Carson so maybe it keeps Chris on the field because of less wear and tear. I want Clowney just as much as the next guy but it sure looks like there’s more to the story than we are privy to.

            Seattle was pathetic with their pass rush yet a solid RB away from atleast advancing to the NFC championship.

  24. DC

    At this point, they’ll be lucky to place 2nd in the NFCW and make the playoffs as a WC. Unless they do something big and drastic nextboffseason for an overhaul and infuse some talent on D, sadly this is the end of this era as we know it.

  25. Sea Mode

    So he’s the ultimate “wanted but not wanted” RB of note…?

    Following his release from the Niners, Hyde signed a three-year deal with the Browns in 2018 and was ultimately traded after six games to the Jaguars for a 2019 fifth-round pick. He was released by Jacksonville in March 2019 and signed a one-year deal shortly thereafter with the Chiefs, who traded him five months later to Houston for offensive tackle Martinas Rankin.

    • ZacScratch

      Cool cool cool. So we trade him for a late round draft pick to the Eagles when Penny comes off the pup, if Carson can stay healthy.

  26. Edgar

    I’ve been highly critical of most of this 2020 offseason but I can’t find one negative about signing Carlos Hyde.

    Now, like Rob, it makes you side eye drafting Dallas in the 4th rd but feeling like he isn’t a viable backup for the upcoming covid 19 season. If giving the move a clean slate before judging, it is a A+ addition. Imagine having Hyde for the Cardinal and 9er game heading into the playoffs last season-

    If people are on the fence about signing a guy for 2-4 mil who played in 16 games last season, runs tough between the tackles, and racked up almost 1100 yards on a pass happy Houston team….imagine if this were Eddie Lacy for 3-5.5 mil.

  27. Farmer Hanson


    Long time listener, first time caller. I love the blog and your thoughtful approach to following our Seahawks. Thank you!!!

    You asked “why?” near the top of this piece and you conclude, essentially, with “who the hell knows?”. But “why” is a question with an answer, and if the answer isn’t apparent, then it must be unknown to us right now.

    Try a different way of approaching “why?”. What could be true that we’re not aware of that would answer the why question? How ’bout these answers; and of course more than one could be true:

    1. Rasheem Green and Collier are better than we’ve seen yet. LJ was injured for all of last year and had to sit out most of camp. He’ll be better this year (baring injury), and perhaps the coaches know he’ll be a lot better than we saw last year. Similarly, Rasheem seemed to improve more quickly last year than his rookie year. He’s young and the coaches may believe he’s earlier in his growth curve than most NFL 3rd year players are (i.e. he’s improving quickly and will be a starter+ caliber player for us).

    2. Pete (who I LOVE) has FINALLY gotten over his slow, grinding, defensive approach to the game. It’s the one area he doesn’t seem willing to continually innovate in, but maybe he’s finally recognized that in himself and . . . IS GOING TO LET RUSS COOK!!! As a youth coach (bball and soccer), I know that when you have the smarter, deeper and better team, you want to speed the game up as much as possible; increase the number of possessions for both teams because your team will make more of them on average. We have Russ, so the more possessions in a given game, the better our chances of winning because, on average, he’ll do better with them. The problems in the past were depth . . . and maybe smarts. We’ve added a TON of veteran depth going into an unpredictable season–thanks covid–and we’re perfectly situated to run teams up and down the field. I thought they should have done this last year when our defense struggled, but Pete may have felt they lacked the depth on the defensive side of the ball. Their offensive line signings point to this as well: While still big maulers, we got a little more athletic and fit and a little less massive and banged up on the line.

    3. This is certainly true: We don’t know most of the discussions that go on about players and salary. Maybe that’s just the going rate for these sorts of guys. Want an athletic swing tackle who can play a little TE and still fill in at both tackle spots in a pinch? 3m sounds reasonable. A veteran RB who can do everything you need him to do and, mostly, stays healthy? 4m seems reasonable, especially considering what happened when Chris and Rashad both went to IR last season. John would’ve happily paid 4m for Carlos Hyde last season after those injuries. Keep in mind too, thanks to our TE depth, we almost certainly will have an effective TE all season–that would’ve made a big difference last year, with apologies to Jacob Hollister who filled in admirably, but insufficiently as a TE1.

    4. The season is a long ways off and some of these problems (veteran 1 tech for example) don’t need to be solved yet, and may be better (cheaper) solved in August.

    5. John and Pete have lost it and are just taking a giant crap all over this organization. This seems like the least likely option.

    I’m frustrated with how some of this has gone too. The Clowney affair is certainly not what John and Pete had hoped for and I agree that signing him was job #1 in this offseason, but that didn’t happen and may not. The fact that they’re not willing to overpay for Clowney means something. I like to look at these types of situations and consider what I DON’T know and what might be true based on the information I do know. The fact that they’ve essentially told Clowney they can take him or leave him excites me more than it frustrates me.

    Just trying to give a more hopeful perspective in these trying times. Thanks for all the amazing work Rob.

    • Rob Staton

      I apologise that some of my responses are short but I do feel like I’ve talked a lot about this subject and by now just want to get to the point.

      1. Green and Collier are not better than we’ve seen. They have to prove they belong on a NFL roster, let alone be anything the Seahawks can rely. It shouldn’t be acceptable to any fan to assume they are being relied upon to be a solution.

      2. Pete has not changed anything about his philosophy. We’ve seen him work for 10 years. The whole ‘let Russ cook’ thing is annoying and doesn’t mean anything. It’s just something people on social media shout. I addressed this in more detail a few days ago in an article.

      3. We don’t need to know the insider talks on money to question signings.

      4. Apologists keep arguing that ‘problems don’t need to be solved yet’. How many other contending teams have massive gaping holes in their roster? If you haven’t addressed key needs in free agency or the draft, you’ve got a problem.

      5. They haven’t lost it. It’s perfectly acceptable to both acknowledge what they’ve achieved and question their recent decision making.

  28. Denver Hawker

    I’m sure we could look back at the draft and FA and perhaps draw up a better roster, but I’m not convinced they could have put together a Super Bowl contending team. I think Russ’ contract is a handicap. Here’s the list of contenders and cap hits for QBs:

    KC: Mahomes, Henne- $6MM
    BAL: Jackson, RG3- $5MM
    SF: JimmyG, Mullens- $27MM
    NO: Brees, Hill- $27.5MM
    GB: Rodgers, Love- $24MM
    TEN: Tannehill, Woodside- $23MM

    SEA: Russ, Geno- $32MM

    There’s a clear reason why KC and BAL are the two teams to beat and will fall to earth when they have a QB cap constraint. However, looking at the next tier, the Hawks are still $5MM above the next two closest teams SF and NO.

    SF has the fortunate pleasure to have drafted DL early and often the last couple years with Bosa and Armstead accounting for $13.5MM in combined cap hit. Solomon Thomas adds $9MM, but could be a roster cut down casualty.

    NO has Cam Jordan at only a $9MM cap hit (stepping up to $19MM next year) and Michael Thomas at a $7MM cap hit (stepping up to $19MM next year).

    GB is likely moving away from Rodgers in a year or two and will look to leverage Love’s favorable rookie contract.

    All other contenders have leveraged favorable draft positions for top QB play or DE play. Or in case of NO, going all in for Brees’ final years, backend loading superstar contracts.

    Looking back at NE and Tom Brady, he was on a very generous contract for what he could have asked for.

    I don’t fault the Hawks for keeping Russ. The alternative to wander in the QB wilderness is not a great place. However, to contend with these other teams, they will need to 1) NAIL the draft, 2) find value in FA, and 3) find a way to structure superstar contracts to not incur huge cap hits all at once.

    It’s a very fine needle they are trying to thread.

    • Rob Staton

      They spent nearly $60m this off-season.

      Wilson’s contract wasn’t a problem.

      • Denver Hawker

        Not in this one year vacuum, but you can’t just sign everyone to a 1-year deal. Big free agents are big cap hits for several years. That’s fine if you want to lower the cap hit one year of a contract, but they’ll pay another. Russ in a big hit for many years to come.

        Other contenders have more money to go around. Not just more money to pay big free agents, but more money to absorb roster mistakes.

        • Rob Staton

          The Seahawks have plenty of cap space in the upcoming years. They could easily fit in 2-3 contracts stretching over the next 2-3 years.

          The Cowboys are certainly fitting in several big contracts.

          • Denver Hawker

            Do you consider the Cowboys a Super Bowl contender?

            • Rob Staton

              Possibly yes.

              But we both know if they’re not a contender it won’t be because the roster is crap. Because it isn’t.

              • Denver Hawker

                I can agree to that. They are also choking on paying Dak.

  29. It's Pug

    My to-do list
    1. sign wr Gordon, cut/trade moore/hollister
    2. Sign de griffen, cut/trade jackson
    3. Sign dt Harrison, cut mone or some other reserve fodder
    Give me those 3 moves and I give us an A and am ready to battle

  30. Gaux Hawks

    the $6.5M question…

    would you rather have wright or clowney in a seahawks jersey come september?

    • millhouse-serbia

      For Clowney you would need to create at least 8mil more…

      • Gaux Hawks

        …but which would you rather have?

        • mishima

          Now? Neither.

          Maybe Clowney for the potential comp pick.

        • millhouse-serbia

          Neither. I would use that money on 3T.

  31. Volume12

    Would’ve loved to see an offense like Baltimore’s w/ prime Mike Vick under center. 🔥

  32. millhouse-serbia

    Only two positions I have problem with cap hit wise are TE and LB. I think 10mil for KJ and 10mil for Olsen + Holister are unnecessary. those 15mil (KJ dead cap before march + Holister)they should have spent on DT (3T) who is good pass rusher.

    I dont have problem with rest of what they have done this off season.

  33. HOUSE

    While I had Hyde as one of the top available RBs Definitely preferred him over Freeman), I am again perplexed by the contract. I know its probably closer to a base of $2.5M + incentives, but again, why did he cost that much?

    On the positive side, Carson is in a contract year and Hyde may be playing for a chance somewhere else.

    I know I’ve mentioned the usual suspects as B. Jackson, J. Hollister and D. Moore all being cap casualties, but I’m also starting to wonder about Joey Hunt. I know $6M between a presumed starter (Finney) and backup (Hunt) isn’t a ton of money, but that additional $2M could be used to secure a Griffen or DT since we just once again rolled back the Brinks truck for another contract.

    • Rob Staton

      I think they’re more likely to cut Pocic than Hunt.

      • HOUSE


        I am thinking you’re right about Pocic… I think he’s due a little over $1M. I know its SUPER early, but I think we carry 10 OL are here they are:

        LT: D. Brown, J. Jones
        LG: M. Iupati, P. Haynes
        C: BJ Finney, J. Hunt
        RG: D. Lewis, C. Warmack
        RT: B. Shell, C. Ogbuehi

        • mishima

          Agree, but would sit Iupati for Haynes and flip Ogbuehi (LT) and Jones (RT).

          • HOUSE

            I think Iupati has the edge to push Haynes right now. I do want Haynes to start. I thought Jones would’ve taken Ifedi’s job last year had it not been for injury. Ogbuehi is the SWING tackle and BIG TE. I would like to see Jones learn from Brown to see if he can potentially be our future LT or just a depth guy

            • mishima

              Agree, if not cut, Carroll will probably start Iupati over Haynes. I’d rather see the OL develop, improve, though. End of season > start of season.

              They started Jones at LT against AZ / C. Jones, last year, so that says something. Not sure what, but something.

  34. FWBrodie

    What the hell was Earl Thomas doing in that first highlight? Yikes.

  35. Benny Lionello Bee Jr

    Rob,I have been a reader of your blog for a few years. I enjoy and usually agree with a lot of what you write. I think you truly have a gift for judging up and coming young talent as well.
    However, I don’t remember you ever being as negative as you have been the last couple of months.
    I agree readers come here for an honest assessment of our beloved Hawks.

    In my opinion it’s just getting to be too much too often with the daily bashing of the team,coaches and management.
    I,m sure you will “put me in my place” with one of your mean spirited snappy replies. So go ahead and let me have it. Lately that seems to be how you handle things here.
    Or Chicken Little you COULD lighten up just a little and try being a bit more positive at least once in a while.

    • Rob Staton

      This kind of comment drives me nuts.

      Either you want a serious blog that addresses the serious issues facing the team — positive or negative.

      Or you want a pile of absolute drivel being positive for the sake of being positive.

      I call things as I see them.

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