Seahawks take another risk, this time at defensive tackle

It feels like Jarran Reed will be asked to play a LOT of snaps this year

One injury to Jarran Reed and the Seahawks will have a crisis on their hands.

That doesn’t feel like a hyperbole. This is the current D-line depth:

Myles Adams
Mario Edwards Jr.
Dre’Mont Jones
Mike Morris
Jarran Reed
Cameron Young

Young and Morris are currently injured. That means right now, the Seahawks only have one healthy defensive lineman who is over 300lbs. Reed.

Sure, Matt Gotel is back on the practise squad and can be called up to the active roster. That will almost certainly happen for week one against the Rams.

It does feel strange, though, that this topic isn’t being more widely discussed. It’s as if people don’t want to focus on the one glaring weakness on the roster when there are positive things that can easily act as a distraction.

Plus, the real football hasn’t started yet. It’ll become a big talking point if the Seahawks can’t stop the run up the middle or struggle to keep their linebackers clean at the second level. For now, it’s akin to that injury or illness you delay seeing the doctor about until it becomes too serious to ignore.

The Seahawks are small up front, lack size, don’t have any D-line depth to speak of, are set to ask two key players to take on a ton of snaps and if either misses significant time, it could be fatal for the defense.

Many fans hoped cut-down day would provide some relief on the defensive line. It never felt likely because as we keep saying, teams collect good defensive linemen, they don’t cut them. It’s very easy to stash even a minutely enticing D-liner as your 53rd man simply due to the importance of the position.

Seattle didn’t claim anyone at the position. Nobody in the league did. It speaks to how protective teams are of defensive linemen worth having.

It means the Seahawks are left with what they’ve got.

It shouldn’t be a problem against the hapless Rams who are seemingly in the spring-time of a major cultural and roster shift. LA gives off a slightly shambolic vibe at the moment with a top-heavy roster with some big names and not a lot else.

After that though, things could become serious very quickly.

Another reason I think people struggle to be too critical at the moment is the Seahawks splashed out on Dre’Mont Jones. That move went so against everything they’ve done in the past, you almost feel inclined to raise a glass and give them the benefit of the doubt. Jones was a great signing. A vital signing.

However, it feels like the whole D-line — and potentially the success of the defense this year — rests on Jones’ $55m shoulders. At least his and Reed’s. They are going to be relied on so much. That means a high percentage of snaps and a need to perform.

You don’t need to be a tactical savant to know it’d be worth testing the underbelly of Seattle’s defense early and often, rather than trying to combat their speed and talent in the secondary. Running the ball successfully would also take away a pass rush that is extremely promising. It’s going to be a huge challenge for this team every week after giving up 150 yards a game on the ground last season.

It’s seared into my brain, the memory of being in the press box in Munich and watching the Tampa Bay offensive linemen screaming at their sideline begging their coaches to ‘let them eat’. I’ve never seen that from a collective O-line group before. They knew they had Seattle’s number up front and were making it very obvious to everyone in Bayern Munich’s stadium. ‘We can run all over these guys’.

The Seahawks cleaned out the D-line responsible for that day during the off-season but are now left relying on two key free agent signings, two rookies, a second year UDFA and a man on his seventh team in eight years.

Everything else connects. If the D-line can’t do its job up front, it’ll impact Bobby Wagner and the linebackers. Wagner showed mortal traits in 2019 and 2020 when the Seahawks couldn’t keep him clean, or relied too much on him to produce choreographed opportunities for a blitzing Jamal Adams. It led to Wagner’s departure. Now that he’s back — if they want the best of him, they need to play well up front. It’s no coincidence he came roaring back into form last year with Aaron Donald playing on LA’s D-line.

What happens when Seattle’s D-line comes up against a big offensive line and an opponent determined to run? A light D-line doesn’t exactly fill you with confidence.

God forbid Reed and/or Jones miss any time because what then? 80% snaps for Myles Adams? And how can they manage Jones’ and Reed’s workload with such meagre depth?

It’s again hard to fathom how it’s come to this. They have $11m in cap space because they always had leavers to pull this summer (and they’ve been pulled). They could’ve easily signed at least one more veteran defensive tackle in March or April but chose not to. Heck, the Ravens had less money than the Seahawks this month and still signed Ronald Darby and Jadeveon Clowney.

In the next few weeks the Seahawks are either going to look like geniuses or they’re going to be shown up for completely neglecting a glaring, obvious issue in a totally unacceptable way — preventing a really promising roster from being as good as it can be.

They’ve been here before and had mixed results. A year ago they rolled the dice on Geno Smith and Drew Lock being ‘enough’ at quarterback and were proven right. In the past they’ve banked on Benson Mayowa and Bruce Irvin being enough to fix a pass rush and were shown to be misguided. Go back a bit further and look at how they approached the offensive line during years of turmoil up front. Trading Frank Clark and then trying to make up the shortfall with Ziggy Ansah, L.J. Collier and a last-minute trade for Jadeveon Clowney. Mixed results.

This is a trend for the Seahawks — to take big, arguably unnecessary, roster risks.

We’ll see how this latest one plays out. It’s hard to understand why they didn’t just sign one or two more grizzled veterans when they had the chance to at least feel like they don’t have to put too much on the plate of Reed and Jones or rely on currently injured first year players to succeed.

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  1. Spencer

    Hey Rob (or anyone) what are your thoughts on Akiem Hicks or Suh? Like you, I don’t see the logic in their (lack of) moves regarding the defensive interior. The only option I can see is a costly trade or signing one of those guys after their pay wouldn’t be guaranteed. Definitely older and Suh seems to be a mercenary at this point, but I feel like something has to give. Pro’s and con’s of signing either of them?

  2. cha

    For the record, Dre Jones PFF’d a 41.8 grade in run defense last year…

  3. Old but Slow

    Has anyone signed Jerrod Clark? 6′ 3 334 lbs, rookie who Rob had as a 4th rounder. Or Danny Shelton, getting old at 30, but his 345 lbs can still get in the way. I counted 16 DTs that were cut that weigh over 325 lbs. 5 of them are 30+ years old.

    Just reaching for someone who can take some snaps.

    • Hand of God

      Jerrod Clark was signed to the Chargers’ practice squad…

      • Husky13

        Could the Hawks have placed a waiver claim on Clark? I understand the answer may be as simple as “he didn’t prove to be very good”, but I recall many in this forum hoping that we would draft Clark.

  4. cha

    There’s the corresponding moves for the waiver claims

    Aaron Wilson
    #Seahawks released Jon Rhattigan and Jonathan Sutherland (IR removed, injury settlement)

    • Elmer

      I thought they released Artie Burns so was expecting they only had one cut to make, not two. I’m missing something, unless they created a vacant roster spot on purpose.

      • Hand of God

        Sutherland was on IR, not on the active roaster or practice squad. Being on the IR list meant he was not eligible to play for the Seahawks for the whole year, but could have (i think) been picked up by another team. With an injury settlement, he is basically a free agent now…again, just my limited understanding of how this works.

        • Elmer

          Thanks! Sutherland wasn’t on the active roster to begin with. Got it! Kind of surprised that Rhattigan was waived. It feels like the roster juggling is not finished.

          • TomLPDX

            I was surprised by that too.

  5. TomLPDX

    So who is to blame for this? John or Pete? This, to me, falls on John’s shoulders.

    • STTBM

      Pete’s the reason we have 18 million tied up in Jamal Dams though. Imagine 18 million spent on one or two DTs in free Agency…it’s still on Pete every bit as much as John, maybe moreso…

    • Jeff

      It’s always hard to parse these things out, but honestly it’s kind of a mess. D-line has been an issue for this team for what, four years now? It’s certainly the proximate reason for the disastrous Jamal Adams trade, which in turn was probably partly the catalyst for the Russell Wilson trade.

      PCJS are getting away with roster mismanagement because the team overachieved in 2022, but this really is something for which they should have been held accountable.

    • Mad Dog

      Why does there have to be blame placed for this. As Rob stated, teams hold onto good DT. SO there isn’t a ton available. We decided Woods and Poona weren’t good defensive tackles and that we could find them in the draft. So we drafted two DT’s: Young and Morris.

      Young is back practicing and will be ready for the season. Morris is a separate issue but we have Myles Adams and Mario Edwards that can play his role.

      Given the team is likely going to play a lot of 2-4-5 formations, I’m not sure we need to worry about the DT position. I agree they are light, but they can get big wnen necessary with Reed, Young and Edwards out there combined with Mafe and Hall. That’s 5 strong dudes for run heavy teams.

      My feeling is that Pete has always wanted make teams one dimensional. Now he can by discouraging the pass and encouraging the run. Most teams are built to pass. So it’s almost a reverse psychology. None of us want to see debacles where we get run over by running teams, but I think they’ve done enough to be sound against run first offences and be dominant against passing teams.

      Want haunts my nights are the ongoing difficulties defending screens and short crossers. I’d rather Hurtt fix that problem than spend his time trying to get big on the DL.

  6. seahawksfan1201

    Who specifically should they have signed though? Who was the difference-making DT they could have added but simply neglected to?

    • Rob Staton

      Who’s saying they needed to sign a ‘difference making’ defensive tackle?

      Let’s start with veteran depth so that Jarran Reed doesn’t have to play 80% of the snaps

      That’d be a start

      And there were plenty of options for people who could do that, including some cheap ones in FA

    • BK26

      It’s not a difference-making DT that is needed. It is just a defensive tackle. Period. Someone who is capable of playing in the NFL, at whatever level. There is only Jarran Reed, who isn’t much over 300 lbs, and one injured rookie.

      There is zero depth, which will easily bleed into the rest of the defense.

      • TomLPDX

        Right now they are hedging their bets with Gotel. Still, no where near enough.

        Where’s the BEEF!

        • geoff u

          He can’t do much on the practice squad.

          • TomLPDX

            They’ll elevate him to the main roster

            • geoff u

              So we’re keeping covid rules? Nice, and my mistake.

              • TomLPDX

                Yeah, really glad they kept the PS rules after covid.

    • Carl

      Just keep Al Woods at his relatively modest price tag, he is at least decent depth.

  7. SomeDude

    I was so excited after the Clowney trade and Ansah addition. That d line seemed formidable to many eyes. Felt like we robbed the Texans. It’s a shame that it didn’t work out. Hopefully, we will be wrong about our front seven just like we were back in 2019-2020.

    • Rob Staton

      But we weren’t wrong in 2019/20

      We expected a bad pass rush and got a bad pass rush

      • 34shadow

        Hold up, I’m pretty sure we all thought that Clowney trade was a steal for us. Am I wrong here?

        • Rob Staton

          1. It was felt it was absolutely necessary because otherwise they had ‘nobody’. And so it proved. We were a one man band. Then that one man left and they tried to replace him with Mayowa and Irvin which feels as baffling now as it did at the time.

          2. You posted an insulting smear as a second comment whining and moaning about your comment being ‘deleted’ accusing me of hypocrisy (eh?) and highlighted Brandon Coleman, a player from over a decade ago, as an example of a player I got wrong (must be doing something right if we have to go that far back). When in reality, you don’t comment enough to pass screening along with the 30-50 messages of spam I have to delete every day. I spend a lot of time approving comments that aren’t spam but it’s what I have to do to not have every comments sections ruined with spam. But rest assured you will now remain on that screened list seeing as you can’t even wait for me to wake up and approve your comment before having a toddler tantrum.

          This fan base has some right whoppers in it 🤦‍♂️

          • stregatto

            Thanks Rob for the extra effort you put in behind the scenes.

  8. Rick


    What are your thoughts on –

    “Defensive tackle Timmy Horne, 6-feet-4, 323 pounds, came to Atlanta as an undrafted free agent in 2022 but immediately made an impact, playing in all 17 games and starting five while compiling 27 tackles. He was cut Tuesday because the Falcons added Calais Campbell, David Onyemata and Bud Dupree during free agency, not because his own play regressed.” – Athletic

  9. geoff u

    Achilles, meet heel.

    Next Sunday will be a good test with Cam Akers. Last season vs the Rams:

    Game 1
    Akers: 17 – 60 – 3.5 – 2 td
    Team: 33 – 171 – 5.2 – 2 td

    Game 2
    Akers: 21 – 104 – 5.0 – 0 td
    Team: 28 – 146 – 5.2 – 1 td

  10. StevenD

    What’s worse?

    Myles Adams and the D line getting gashed 6 yards at a time? Or
    Geno Smith getting crushed by D Ends with Stone Forsythe at Left Tackle?

    Run defense will be a bit better with Bobby lining ’em up and moving to 1 gap vs. 2 gap responsibilities. We’re also better at setting the edge with Mafe vs. Taylor. However, the interior D line is a push at best vs. last year and smaller/thinner than a year ago. Maybe we go from 30th against the run to 20th at best. It’s still a huge problem, and worse with an injury as you point out.

    But is it a bigger injury risk than Cross and/or Lucas going down? I’d argue that we’ve got an even bigger risk with Forsythe and Curran than with Adams and Gotel. With our tackles we go from above average to horrible. With the interior D line we go from below average to well below average.

    Our roster is getter stronger over the past 2 years. But its still got a long ways to go just to be strong across the board. And, even further to go to match up with Philly/SF/Dallas. We have no dominant part of the roster and a couple of weak links.

    • cha

      Apples and oranges.

      OL are used to and in fact are required to play 100% of the team’s snaps. DL usually max out around 70-80% at best and usually teams target 65% as a max.

      Point being, it by nature SHOULDN’T all be on Reed and Jones’ shoulders. But it is.

      And further, you seem to imply that running for 6y a carry and Geno getting smacked are events that would happen in equal occurrence should Cross and Reed get hurt. And that’s not the case.

      • StevenD


        No one is implying equal parts 6 yards vs.sacks or that O line and D lines aren’t different with regard to rotations.

        The point is two-fold:
        – From an injury perspective, starting offensive tackles are a bigger risk to this team than starting interior DL
        – Our rush defense is going to be bad, but could still improve, even with worse interior D line talent and depth

        Rob is emphasizing the risk of our thin and week interior DL by posing the “what if Reed gets hurt?’ question. Fair enough. We can all agree that Reed is below average and so the thought of his, even worse back-ups with Young and Morris out is scary. However, is it that scary given that we gave up an average of 6 yards/carry last year with many runs coming not up the middle, but around the edge where Taylor was horrible? Can it be any worse than Al Woods complaining about always having to move sideways to cover 2 gaps? Can we agree that Brooks isn’t much of a communicator and the back side with Diggs still recovering and Adams out wasn’t much help? Will an improved back end and pass rush have an impact? There are lot of other incremental improvements that will help our rush defense despite the fact our interior D line isn’t one of them. Will it result in an even average rush defense? Probably not, but maybe we can be a bit better, a below average rush defense – say 20th instead of 30th?

        Even with Adams and Gotel in the rotation which isn’t great, I still think this is possible. So, maybe a 4-5 yard opponent rush average instead of 6 with some reduction in all the chuck run plays we gave up last year.

        And if Cross goes down and Geno gets hammered a few times each game? Maybe get injured as a result? I think that’s a bigger risk.

        Just my opinion and I’d love others to weigh in without missing the point and splaining how d lines rotate and how often teams rush vs average qb sacks.

        • cha

          Most every team in the NFL is up a creek if their starting LT gets hurt for a long stretch.

          You’re complaining about the talent level of players who may possibly play vs the very real concern of the talent level of players who will absolutely definitely play is all I’m saying.

          • StevenD

            Makes sense.

            Very few DTs on the waiver wire, much more OTs. So I wonder…

            I understand that most teams want better OT depth. And, still hard for me to imagine we can’t upgrade Stone Forsythe. Seems like we talk about competition everywhere else, but are complacent at OT. I’d rather roll the dice on someone with a bit of upside than stay pat with what we have. ALMOST makes me miss Tom Cable.

        • PJ in Seattle

          We can all agree that Reed is below average and so the thought of his, even worse back-ups with Young and Morris out is scary.

          I don’t agree with this. Reed is not a below average DT.

          • Peter

            Agreed. I don’t think Reed is below average. There’s obviously a top line ( simmons, donald, etc) and Reed isn’t there but I still think in the right scheme he can bring some good to great games.

            Very excited to see what he does next to jones and with a hopefully great edge rush situation.

            • StevenD

              We’re all optimistic

              Hopefully Reed is energized by the return to the Hawks. Maybe he returns to previous form which was above average. Maybe he could even be a Mebane-ish smaller NT.

              Or maybe he plays like he did last season for the Packers – which was below average.

              I’m optimistic as well. Optimistic that despite a weak D front, we’ll actually improve a bit against the run. Also optimistic that we’re not done acquiring talent there and will get back Young and Morris so we won’t actually see much of Adams or Goetl.

              Whatever happens, we all know our interior D line will remain an area to upgrade next off season and there are other areas too, like O Tackle depth and a new crop of tight ends to join Parkinson. Linebackers to possibly replace Wagner, Brooks, Bush.

              We have a long way to go to be closer to the top NFC rosters, much less the top NFL rosters. And NT is just one of the areas that needs to improve.

  11. cha

    Cautiously optimistic on Morris & Young, among others…

    Curtis Allen
    Does this mean the #seahawks have no IR-designated for return moves? I see Cam Young & Mike Morris on the reg list above.
    Bob Condotta
    They have not used any of those yet.

  12. Shane


    this situation which the Seahawks have landed themselves in is totally inexcusable, they has both the capital in FA and draft picks to resolve this issue, especially when they made the decision to completely cut last years DL. Jones was a good signing, but cost to much and some of that capital could have gone on getting another DL guy in to add to Jones signing. They probably should also have kept Al Woods, however good or bad he played last season.

    Seattle are really playing with fire for the reasons you’ve said and next year Seattle isn’t going to have the picks alone to sort thier DL that way and money is going to be tight. However good a teams offense is, it can’t keep consistently thinking it can outscore teams to win games, it will fail eventually.

    I feel people don’t want to address the issue because their blinded as to the severity of the issue, just think things will be ok or that people are overreacting to the situation.

    I for one like many Seahawk fans like yourself Rob are sick and tired of lame defence year on year.

  13. Gaux Hawks

    PS posted on (15 players)…

    Happy to see Artie Burns, Cade Johnson and SaRodorick Thompson.

    Hoping to see Jonathan Sutherland after the injury settlement.

  14. cha

    Football Scout just posted an analysis video that the Seahawks got a MASSIVE STEAL with Drake Thomas being claimed off the Raiders.

    Let’s hold our horses for just a second.

    This guy did not get drafted. And the Raiders were truly horrible on defense last year. Really terrible. And they couldn’t find room for him on their 53.

    Take a breath, everyone.

    • cha

      If anything it says a lot about Rhattigan and O’Connell

    • Zxvo3

      I am beyond tired of those videos

    • Peter

      Saw a similar video where Thomas MIGHT be a cornerstone of the future.

      Also praised our ability to retain so many players. Thought to myself…hold in…while good I guess to retain your players on the other hand if the league doesn’t rate them is it that amazing.

    • Sea Mode

      Anything for the clicks, I guess…

    • GrittyHawk

      I’m so ready for the season to start so this fanbase can stop the daily hype trains for practice squad fodder. Bobo was one thing, but the amount of people I see talking about Holton Ahlers being the QBotF and that we need to get him onto the active roster for gadget plays makes me want to vomit in my mouth. But hey I guess it’s better than the hourly updates on which 3rd string OL Jalen Carter knocked over in practice.

      • geoff u

        Holton Ahlers had better preseason stats than Richardson and Stroud. He should’ve been a top 5 pick. People will remember this some day the same way they remember Brady in the 6th.


      • Mr Drucker in hooterville

        I was so not impressed with Ahlers. I’d have cut him and brought in someone else for the practice squad. He’s taking up a DL’s spot.

        • BK26

          Or someone with any kind of upside. Like Corral.

  15. Palatypus

    I am excited about the Tycho Doughnut Nickle Eagle.

  16. Canadian Hawk


    Very good piece.

    Your point at the end….. I”t’s hard to understand why they didn’t just sign one or two more grizzled veterans” seems obvious, yet they didn’t or haven’t yet.

    Do you feel Pete/John are comfortable with what they have? Do they not value the position? No Free agents or trades worth pursuing?

    To be the 30th ranked run defense and yet still be this shallow on depth on the surface makes no sense.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Count me among the puzzled. I’m reduced to grasping at straws and hoping Gotel will become another starter, anyone who can play would be helpful. I agree that you don’t let go of Al Woods unless you got extra players that are better than him. Did they even make an offer to Clowney?

  17. Warner28

    Maybe they’re planning to sign a veteran free agent DT after contracts are no longer fully guaranteed?

    • Rob Staton


      They need to be considering it

  18. Cover 12

    Size, Power, Speed, Disruption…Michael Bennett was not big (280-ish), not powerfully built, not that fast actually (hence the free agent introduction to the NFL) but the League learned that he was indeed disruptive.

    Much has been discussed about Jalen Carter, but at only 305LBs, is not huge (but Very disruptive at UGA). Pete’s favorite player he never had?? Calais Campbell who carries only 300LBs (on his 6’8″ frame) is rather skinny actually but Remains disruptive. As one who played the game and personally witnessed players who defied the odds, MB was not the only ex-Seahawk who excelled as an undersized player against the run.

    Other undersized defenders who played for Seattle, like Jadavion Clowney (built like a pass-rushing Edge but much better as a Run-stopper) and Randall McDaniel (an All-Time great) were not built like run-stoppers and yet they were/are. Heck, last I checked, Rams DT Aaron Donald (285) and Niner’s DE Nick Bosa (266) are each undersized players who have a few DPOY trophies between them.

    It seems the Hawks’ plan (to have Disruptors manning these positions VS Lane-cloggers) is set and they are willing to confirm whether or not it is the way to go. From a personal perspective who played the game and who has studied the NFL for over 50 years, I KNOW that PC/JS are Far better evaluators and team-builders than I ever will be.

  19. Big Mike

    Adding to that fiasco against Tampa in Munich last year was that they were the 32nd ranked run offense going into the game I do believe. They didn’t run on anyone except Seattle.

  20. Robert Las Vegas

    The thing I remember about the last time we played the Rams .it took the Seahawks overtime to beat the Rams without Kupp or Aaron Donald and Cam Akers ran over 100 yards in the game.who would be surprised if the Rams didn’t try to run the ball down the Seahawks throats in week one. I think Sean Mcvay is a pretty smart guy he probably has been thinking about this game since schedule came out. I imagine this game being a tough game.

    • Big Mike

      Quite possible, and I can just hear Carroll at the post game presser saying “we thought they were going to throw a lot more”, the opposite of the game vs. Buffalo a couple of years back.

      • Hawkster

        Monetizing: the rams to cover (+5) and under on the points (43)

        Getting run all over leans towards a lower scoring closer game in general. Like 20-16 Sea for the win.

  21. Hebegbs

    The internal DL depth really is inexcusable. And they must?…know this. It really has me believing a trade is coming soon. Pete must feel they are close again and he isn’t getting any younger.

  22. cha

    Cam young has practiced the last two days.

    Finally a small ray of DL sunshine.

    • Peter

      Love to hear it.

  23. Romeo A57

    We all know that this roster is at least 1 offseason away for being a contender. While it does suck that we can probably expect to give up 150 Rushing Yards per game, I plan on enjoying the players that are on this roster. I am also trying to figure out how to monetize the holes in the Seahawks Defense.

  24. ska

    We’re not the only ones working on last minute fixes. Difference is, we created our problem…

    “Chiefs swung a late trade with the AFC West-rival Raiders the previous day, sending a sixth-round pick to acquire defensive tackle Neil Farrell Jr. A fourth-round pick of the Raiders last year, Farrell can fill a void on the defensive front — with or without Jones — by providing a big, run-stopping presence.

    “The plan any time you add someone on the defensive line is they can be a complete player,” Veach said, “but right off the bat, he’s a bigger body. That’s something we put an emphasis on. That picked up late yesterday and we worked though it kind of quick.””

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I still don’t see how the Chiefs let Chris Jones go, but this is an interesting development

  25. Cover 12

    Before your readers plan their escape from this world over the Seahawks’ D in 2023, I encourage those that Run-Defense takes some level of continuity.

    1) Clint Hurtt was a first-time Coordinator last year.
    2) Every Coordinator (D or O) is a job that takes at least a year to get to the point where their plan makes a difference. Heck, even Dick LaBeau was not a HOF defensive coach until he had some time with his all-world unit.
    3) THIS 2023 defense has replaced 7 of 11 starters. Woolen, Nwosu, Taylor, and Diggs are the only holdover starters. I believe the transition will improve things – but how soon?

    Thus, do any of us think they will be good against the run before game 8-10 or so? Anyone? Beuller?

    Even IF they had a new Stud or two, things take time in the NFL. Hopefully, your peeps can chill some and see something that Really is worthwhile by mid-season, or so.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      First, raising and discussing a legitimate concern about a football team on a football blog doesn’t mean anyone participating here wants to go off themselves over it. Please, this is a condescension-free zone.

      Second, your argument of “just give it time” falls flat in the face of the fact that this will be the third straight year with a woefully inadequate DL group to start the season.

      Third, why should any fan blithely accept that their team will abjectly suck at a crucial aspect of the game for the first half of the season, season after season?

      • Cover 12

        Dudes, let’s enjoy the season. It is likely to one worthy of some pre-season chill. If you disagree, cool. I remain ‘chilled monkey brains’ and am truly looking forward to it…enjoy!

        • Rob Staton

          Stop telling people how to think

    • Peter

      If they don’t show improvement before week 8-10, will it matter?

      Btw. Seattle has had a bottom of the league run defense 4 out of the previous five years. So Hurtt or whomever hasn’t been getting it done.

      As Rob and others have said it’s not about a new stud. It’s about Jarran Reed is years removed from playing 80% of snaps. Mario Edwards is just guy and just a guy who doesn’t play much. Dremont Jones we are all stoked on is not a run defender and has missed games 3 out of 4 seasons.

      There’s five (?) Safeties….Diggs, adams, love, bryant, reed from NM state.

      Tons of corners. A backup up olinemen for nearly every spot on the line…even though olinemen don’t rotate in and out of plays. Four runningbacks. Three LB’s when all three won’t be on the field. Four RB’s.

      But a position that almost literally changes formation and/or personal on nearly every snap….Where’s the depth? Where’s the bodies to field a line?

    • Rob Staton

      Maybe Cover 12 and his peeps can let us get on with talking about relevant topics about the team and he can go somewhere else if he doesn’t like it where they can talk about Pete’s throwing arm on the run

      • Cover 12

        Your site – your wishes. I can move on if you prefer…

        Lofa Tutupu, who is likely the Most authentic voice contributing to this post, seems to be attempting (via numerous comments) to get your readers to calm down and enjoy what is very likely to be a Special season. I agree with him. This post was about undersized D-linemen and those who do not have enough of a resume’ to be worthy of feeling confident leading into the season. I agree with you.

        There are many brilliant responders to this. I had one that was spot on and offered insight as one who also was an undersized defender (no, not in the NFL)…I mentioned examples of Superior play from undersized NFL D-linemen. Some of them own Gold Jackets to show for their Supersized ability. Aaron Donald is only 285LBs with short arms too. Nick Bosa is 266LBs. I am not saying that we should be good with what this team has on hand. That is a personal decision.

        What I am saying is that this season is likely to be Worthy of appreciation and nicely set up for a Championship run next year.

        I have been following you since your pre-draft write-up on Aaron Donald from Pitt – wow, nearly 10 years ago. Thank you for the enjoyment and insights over these years ‘together’. This is your BBQ…if you wish me out, so be it. Best wishes moving forward.

        • Rob Staton

          You don’t need to try and police the discussion

          That’s the point

          Let people talk about what they want, you can do the same without needing to pass judgement on what they wish to debate

  26. Palatypus

    They need to put a sign on the training room:

    The Hurtt Locker.

  27. Jabroni-DC

    Myles Adams
    Mario Edwards Jr.
    Dre’Mont Jones
    Mike Morris
    Jarran Reed
    Cameron Young

    If everyone was healthy & we swapped an ‘Al Woods type’ for Mario Edwards I’d be okay with the roster because there is some vision for how the line would function. Giving reps to the rookies is fine by me if it accelerates their growth curve. But we cut our Al Woods. If Mone ever gets healthy is Edwards out?

    It won’t help us this year but Mel Kiper posted his preseason top 6 DTs for the 2024 draft.

    Leonard Taylor III, Miami
    Kris Jenkins, Michigan
    Jer’Zhan Newton, Illinois
    Maason Smith, LSU
    Michael Hall Jr., Ohio State
    McKinnely Jackson, Texas A&M

  28. samprassultanofswat

    What is Pete Carroll and John Schneider looking at. In all three preseason games the DL was gashed. Like sliced butter. A solid defense NT is much important than a part-time (Safety/OLB/Whatever) who is being paid 18M. I just don’t get it.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Maybe it’s my imagination but I thought the defensive line held when Gotel was playing NT in the third game. Seemed like the runs were occuring closer to the ends. Maybe my imagination and it was all second string players.

      • Vanhawksfan


      • Elmer

        Not imaginary. Some missed tackles on the outside too.

    • Frank

      It’s almost like a theme every offseason to leave 1 area of the team woefully bad, first it was the offensive line, DB, then edge rushers, now Interior DL. It’s not just a little thin, it’s top end is mid as and the depth are guys that wouldn’t make the PS on most teams. The only position that are safe from such negligence are the least important positions in the game, RB and Safety and not because of their overwhelming availability and bargin price, but as a middle finger to analytics or the overall direction of the league.
      I really hope there’s a plan, but after seeing this year after year have kinda resigned myself to it not being addressed until forced to by injuries, and then with half measures only.

  29. Waldo

    It sees too early to panic about the d-line.

    Would definitely feel better if the rookies (Young and Morris) were healthy throughout camp, but it looks like they will be back sooner rather than later (Young is already back). The reality is that they are primarily back-ups anway. Most teams running a 3-4 defense kept only 4-5 players on the d-line…the Seahawks kept 6 (probably due to two being rookies), so there is a good opportunity for rotations (including Reed). Outside of the Eagles, not many teams have more depth or talent on the 3-4 d-line. The weights of those players are simliar to the Seahawks. New England and Baltamore are a little heavier, but Denver and the Bucs are almost the same

    Not sold that keeping any of the departed players would have been better. Al Woods would likely have been an slight improvement this year, but he would have kept Young on the bench, losing experience. Plus, he would have been gone next year due to age; so best to cut ties now. Neither party seemed interested in bringing Shelby Harris back. Puna Ford is a 4-3 guy all the way.

    Bottom line, if the defense fails, it will more likely be the overall scheme’s weakness against the run, not the players on the d-line (unlike last year). If truly building toward a Super Bowl, get the rookies out there now to get them ready…live with the bumps along the way

    • Rob Staton

      It sees too early to panic about the d-line.

      1. Why?

      2. Why do you use the word ‘panic’ instead of ‘discuss a relevant topic and take it seriously’?

      • Waldo

        It is definitely a relevent topic. However, considering the options, the path they are going down make sense. Get solid veteran starters and back them up with high-upside younger players who have the potential to grow into the starter role

        Bringing in more veterans would either require them to cut the high up-side young players (Morris and Young would never make it through waivers to be on the practice squad) OR limit their playing time significantly…keeping them from reaching their potential

        It would be nice to have a higher-end talent than Edwards as a starter, but it is unlikely that he is the difference between Seattle having an excellent run defense vs a terrible one. Besides, to get someone better that also fits their scheme would involve a trade…which I am not excited to give up draft pics for a one year starter

        • Peter

          That’s just it though. You don’t need to put anyone on the waiver wire.

          It’s their choice to construct the roster this way. Every move is a risk. I like all the runningbacks and most of the safeties. But if you can carry four runningbacks or five safeties surely you can find room for one or more active day dlinemen.

    • Peter


      I wasted many minutes looking this up. Turns out lots of teams have 6-8 dlinemen. We have six plus Gotel.

      The big difference. Those guys are healthy.

      Seattle has….FOUR….dlinemen that are healthy. Gotel if he moves to the 53 makes five. Five.

      It won’t matter about scheme if Reed or Jones gets hurt.

      • UkAlex6674

        So you’re saying that every other D line on every other team is 100%?

        • Rob Staton

          Peter clearly isn’t saying that

          He’s pointing out that the Seahawks are unique in how many healthy DL’s they currently have

        • Peter

          I’m not saying every team. I’m saying that yes some teams roll with 4-6 like Seattle and there are a good deal of teams that have up to nine on the roster. Mot practice squad. Game day, 53 man roster.

          It’s just a numbers game for me.

          We all like Myles Adams. He’s still a total unknown. Mario Edwards is a guy who does a job.

          Plus we need to look not at total players (four and Gotel) but their position. It’s not four evenly suited linemen. Reed is playing NT. Jones is a DE. I’m sure they can rotate and shift. But those are in reality two different spots.

          The way I take the hand wringing is that, to me, it’s not “what if jones or reed gets hurt and we have to play an inferior player for a bit.” It’s more like…we literally do not have the bodies to make a functional rotation.

          Whether it’s 4-3 or 3-4 we look to have three players playing 80+% of snaps which is pretty uncommon and hard to do for defensive linemen.

          • TomLPDX

            The way I take the hand wringing is that, to me, it’s not “what if jones or reed gets hurt and we have to play an inferior player for a bit.” It’s more like…we literally do not have the bodies to make a functional rotation.

            This, to me, is the main issue. I’m glad we got Gotel back on the PS but his strength will be his ability to rotate in to spell the starters, assuming he gets elevated to the main roster to begin with.

            • Peter

              Excited to see Gotel and cautiously optimistic about Young and maybe Morris.

              Hopefully they have a good info on young and morris’ timeliness.

              Then you can get a little hopeful that a more balanced rotation gives the dlinemen workhorses a little more energy throughout the games.

          • Allen M.

            How often do NTs, or even 5techs for that matter, rotate? If an injury to NT we probably call up Goetel from the PS. Dremont and Reed have been durable in their careers.

            I think the emphasis is on the secondary being the strength and we will get by with the interior DL. We have a great rotation as Edge where is matters.

            • Peter

              Jones has missed time in three of four seasons.


              This is all I got for you:

              The last time Seattle won a superbowl (4-3) the big boys averaged 50% of snaps each.

              Philly last year ran 3-4 and 4-3 concepts. Cox and Hargrave played 65 and 64% of snaps. Linval Joseph played 38%.

              These players are getting rotated out.

              Jarran Reed is years removed from playing high 70% of snaps.

              I’m stoked for woolen, love, Diggs, bryant. Not sure until witherspoon plays the secondary is any different than last year. Nwosu and Taylor ( yep him) played well last year. Stoked on Hall, but injured, and hope Mafe shows out. But….

              The edge rushers and secondary weren’t the problem last year and probably won’t be the problem this year. It’s the dline.

            • Rob Staton

              DL’s rotate a ton

              And it’s a vitally important area for any team

      • Tatupu51

        Aren’t those teams 4-3 defenses? That may explain the difference.

        If our pass rushers we’re counted as d-linemen and not linebakers, we’d have more than 8 d-linemen, would’nt we?

        • STTBM

          How many are 300+ lbs? How many can play nose?

          Spin it if you must, but this roster is the thinnest in the NFL for 300 lb linemen who can play nose. How the hell can anyone think they can stop the run with that roster?!

        • Peter

          Not sure what every team I looked at ran. The niners on paper says 3-4 and the are carrying more than us. The steelers are definitely a 3-4 and they are rolling with seven dlinemen not counting outside linebackers.

          Just an example on depth btw. Keanu Benton is one of pff’s ( grain of salt) highest rated preseason NT/dlinemen. And he’s the backup, rotational guy.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Their depth chart says they run a 4-3


            • Peter

              Yeah. Just looked back at our lads or similar and they had three down linemen.

              Why bother looking at the niners own page🙃

              • Palatypus

                When we took Derek Hall at 37, I was leaning forward in my chair muttering, “Take Benton, take Benton, take Benton…” After the draft, I changed my mind and agreed with Rob’s assessment, that Hall was better value there. And EDGE pretty much always is at that spot.

                I really didn’t want to be right about this. But it could be worse, the Saints are having buyer’s remorse over Foskey at 40. That might be why we did it. It’s Charles Cross/Trevor Penning 2.0.

        • Cover 12

          Thank you for your noble attempts to lift the collective vibe of this pre-season discussion. Size is usually a difference-maker but I suspect your experience confirms there are a load of undersized players with supersized talents out there.

          This is early and, in my opinion, it is set up to be a Special season. I know I will enjoy it and I wish the same vibe comes to those who are currently finding it to be a challenge. Good discussion. But it is fair to say, there is a high amount of negativity.

          BTW – I also appreciate your advocacy of CBD and other cannabinoid products. It is LONG overdue for those opiates, used by far more than just the NFL, to be abolished.

  30. cha

    Relevant. KJ, Brock and Salk talk about this very subject.

    Salk asks the right question. Do they even have enough guys to run this system?

    KJ says watch Week One. Will the Seahawks actually roll out a classic 3-4 or put more of a 4-3 look in? Says these coaches know how to coach.

    Brock reminds everyone that McVay is a pretty good schemer and how will the Seahawks react when he brings a heavy front in and pushes this defensive line around?

    So at least somebody else is asking those questions.

    • Gaux Hawks

      1) That was a breath of fresh air, thanks for posting.

      2) There is a flagrant need to add/upgrade the DT position.

      3) Not adjusting the Adams and Mone (Dissly in 2024) contracts is criminal.

    • Big Mike

      Nice to see Seattle media not spending all their time fawning over Pete’s arm, sprinting, etc.

      Brock almost saying “McVay outcoaches Pete Carroll”

      • cha

        He has.

        They took Seattle to OT last year without Stafford, Kupp, Donald. Baker puts a little more oopmh into that throw in OT and the Seahawks are cooked.

    • Malanch

      “Teams collect good defensive linemen, they don’t cut them. … Seattle didn’t claim anyone at the position. Nobody in the league did. It speaks to how protective teams are of defensive linemen worth having.” –Rob

      Compare this SDB refrain to Brock’s Question #1 response from the Blue 88 segment for August 31st:

      Salk: “[It was] waiver claim day in the NFL yesterday, as everybody went through and tried to grab any players that were available. Anything stand out to you?”

      Brock: “Yeah, there weren’t many claimed. … [Out of] 851 players cut, there were 24 claimed. That is 2.8 percent—not even one per team—and that feels very low to me. And now, part of that is expanded practice squads. I think. The Seahawks? There wasn’t one of their players that they cut that anybody else claimed. That’s not always the greatest of signs. It was kind of neat in 2012 and ’13 and ’14: Basically, everybody you cut everybody else wanted and picked up right away, around the league. That just isn’t happening. And as far as those 24 players claimed … how many of them were interior defensive linemen? Zero. … Big bodies? They don’t grow on defensive line trees. You can’t go pluck ’em, you can’t go find ’em, and even on the waiver wire in this case … not one interior defensive lineman. If you have ’em, and they’re worth their salt at all, you keep ’em, and you don’t put ’em out there for somebody else to pick up.”

      A blog-level insight/critique has made its way to the MSM.

  31. Skirmish

    Saw Danny Shelton was cut. Big body DT with starting experience, right? Realize he has had injury issues recently but seemed to have moved past them for this upcoming season. Hell if I know who would make a good fit for what we need in the front.

  32. Brad

    I was at that game in Munich and I, too, noticed the TB offensive linemen gesturing to their own sidelines “LET US EAT”. It must have been embarrassing to the Hawks defensive front, and it made me angry at the time. The thing is, they were completely right to do it because they owned that defensive front, and the Hawks could do nothing about it.

    The same position group does give me anxiety this year, but I don’t have quite the “British-level” hand wringing that Rob does. ;).

  33. LouCityHawk

    As far as the DLine goes, the proof will be in the eating…or lack thereof by the Rams OLine on September 10.

    Rams, Lions, & Giants before the bye week, 3 teams with strong OL, good coaches, and a desire to pound the run game.

    If the Hawks are getting pushed around inside, it will be evident by the bye week. And there is no fix for the 2023 season.

    The process for how they ended here is no surprise, it is the same one that resulted in the atrocious OLine in 2021…bad drafting, patchwork FA, lack of investment. It doesn’t take a forensic expert to see the flaw.

    My opinion is that they know it is a flaw and strategically decided to let it be what it is this year after trying to get Jones and Allen both in FA. This year’s line will be better than last year’s, and I expect to see high investment at the top of next year’s draft. They will start on DLine what they did on OLine.

    Rob has indicated he isn’t as high on the DLine prospects as I and others are, someone above posted 6 in the top 40, and that list looked about right to me. We will get our first look at a bunch of them this weekend!

    No. Brockers, Hicks, Suh, Joseph…these over the hill players aren’t going to make things better, worse by my mesasure. A Chris Worley, Chris Covington or Trysten Hill isn’t going to move the needle any more than a street FA. Yes, I’d like to see the Hawks carrying 6 healthy DLine, and the position has been woefully underinvested in.

    • Big Mike

      If the Hawks are getting pushed around inside, it will be evident by the bye week. And there is no fix for the 2023 season.

      The process for how they ended here is no surprise, it is the same one that resulted in the atrocious OLine in 2021…bad drafting, patchwork FA, lack of investment. It doesn’t take a forensic expert to see the flaw.

      Damned good post Lou. I will say the d-line drafting at the EDGE position isn’t yet “bad” but more “the jury’s still out”. Taylor looking questionable for sure. Mafe needs to up his game this year which at least during preseason looked possible and we need production from at least one of the rookies. Interior d-line tho, yikes.

      • LouCityHawk

        The Edge group is one where I’m highly optimistic, but would like to see DT sent on his way.

        Mafe’s pre-season has me very encouraged, I recall Rob being very high on his potential in the 2022 draft, if the preseason play translates to the regular season Mafe is the leader at the Edge group and a pro-Bowl candidate.

        The Edge group might actually be an indicator of the plan for DLine. Invest heavily in a veteran like Chenna (Jones), and cobble together the rest through young players Mafe (Young) and bring in vets like Irvin as triage. (Fill in FA DT here). Year 2 hope for a jump like Mafe (Young, Morris, Adams), still invest a high draft pick like Hall (Maasan Smith or T’Vondre Sweat would be ideal)

  34. PJ in Seattle

    I’m a Gotel fan and think he’s capable of being a very serviceable DT who can spell Reed and plug the middle. He will flash and make some disruptive plays. But we need like two more of those guys. Maybe Gotal proves to be younger, healthier version of Al Woods and Young and Adams will be healthy enough to result in an effective rotation that can keep our LBs clean.

    The point is taken tho – as much as I think Gotel could be our defensive Bobo, how confident can you be in a rookie UDFA being the guy you need to shore up a tremendously important position? One who you actually exposed to waivers? Hard not to feel like we’re staring into an abyss – one where Cam Akers goes Josh Jacobs on us in Week One and gashes us to death on our own field.

    Pete and John either have some personnel ace up thier sleeve or some wild scheme shenanigans that are beyond my reasoning. In either event, something will have to come to fruition soon. As much as I love Chris Jones and would do backfips if we somehow got him, I just don’t see any way that happens. I am reduced to hope and prayers.

    • Big Mike

      Pete and John either have some personnel ace up their sleeve or some wild scheme shenanigans that are beyond my reasoning.

      Either that or they’re just living on hope, a dangerous way to go.

      • STTBM

        Hope is not a strategy…

        • geoff u

          I certainly hope not…

  35. LouCityHawk

    Does anyone know a site that posts recommended viewing for the CFB season? I feel like certain games get mentioned throughout regular posts, but I would like to see someone posting a roundup, or even better, a Hawk-centric roundup of recommended viewing.

    My viewing this weekend:

    Tonight: Gators and Utes of course


    12:00pm Vols v UVA – I know Minton will be a popular name, so I want to get a look at him, Vols are turning out good pros. TCU/Buffs is intriguing, but not from a draft perspective.

    3:30pm IU v OhSt – I’m attending this one.

    7:30pm going to have to split screen this one UNC v SC and WV v PennSt

    Sun 7:30 LSU v FlSt – game of the week right here

    Mon 8pm Clemson v Duke – Riley Leonard watch

    Also, if you are a sicko who is obsessed with Grayson McCall – the only chance you’ll have to see him facing top-ish completion is this weekend at UCLA (Sat 10:30am). I’ll check out the stat line afterwards to see if it would be worth my while to rewatch.

    • TomLPDX

      If you can access this article on The Athletic, it is just what you are looking for.

      • LouCityHawk


        I never read the athletic, and forget I get access with my NYT subscription, just follow MSD on Twitter and click on a story if he shares something interesting. I like his access, but find his takes off, or at least off my own enough to not want to read everything he writes. Like a movie critic you respect, but know has a different enough taste from yours….

        Also, Drake Maye overtaking Caleb Williams as QB1 in the 2024 draft was high humor, like saying your Mustang may be able to outpace a Ferrari.

        • TomLPDX

          I feel the same way about MSD and take him with a grain of salt for the most part. I do like his pre-game podcasts with the opposing beat reporters, those are usually entertaining.

    • Big Mike

      Isn’t UNC v. SC Maye v. Rattler? That ought to be interesting.

      • TomLPDX

        I believe it is

      • LouCityHawk


        And Antwane Wells is worth a look as well, doesn’t have a famous daddy, but he sure looks like he could be a WR1

  36. TomLPDX

    I was curious to know who Drake Thomas is as a player. Found this highlight reel on youtube. The guy looks like a good player, but you also have to realize this is a highlight video. I wouldn’t call this a massive steal though, just replacing O’Connell with Thomas.

    • TomLPDX

      Just saw Cha had posted something about this yesterday. My apologies.

    • Palatypus

      Must be the guy Drew Rosenhaus was talking about in the pisser.

  37. cha

    Pete knows…

    Curtis Allen
    With Cam Young back good with DL depth? PC: “Um…well..we’re…I’m fired up he got back out. Waiting on Mike (Morris) now. Good play from Matt Gotel in preseason if we need him. Myles also did some good stuff. Always competing though, make as good as we can.” #Seahawks

    • Olyhawksfan

      It almost broke character.

      • Sea Mode

        😂 Underrated comment!

    • Big Mike

      It would indeed appear he does know.

      So then that begs the question ‘why didn’t they do more to address it’?

      I’m very interested in your opinion as to why Curtis, you too Rob and anyone else that wishes to chime in. Please.

      • cha

        I think Rob encapsulated it well in the article. They take chances and decline to ‘fill’ every position and every year one gets ‘left behind’ and sometimes it isn’t a big deal but most often it bites them in the butt.

        • Big Mike

          Yeah I see that but with money available, which as Rob stated in the article there was, I don’t see the logic in that this year.

          • Brodie

            Free agency started in mid March. They didn’t free up that money until July 25th. There were months where we were wondering what they were going to do to even sign the rookie class.

            They sat on those ‘levers’ as Rob calls them until July 24 (Nwosu) and July 25th (Diggs).

            By that time any FA help for the DL was long gone. The tender date for restricted FA’s, transition tags is also July 24th. I’m not sure if they were hoping for something to happen in that regard, but they extended Nwosu and restructured Diggs without any corresponding additions regardless.

            Did they try to get Nwosu done before FA (to free up more money)? Maybe they did and the agent wanted to watch what this year’s EDGE class got before hitting the negotiating table.

            Nwosu had every incentive to wait out FA and see what the market did.

            Diggs $$ was one you could argue was available the whole time. His restructure freed up $6M or so and that could have been done at the same time as Tyler. It certainly would have been enough to get Greg Gaines or the like.

            • James Cr.

              Didn’t they sign Julian Love in FA for $6 Mil per year though in March? (another safety but I digress)

            • geoff u

              They would’ve done that sooner if they wanted to, for instance if they’d struck a deal with Zach Allen. It seems clear to me it was a choice not to sign anyone else after that.

      • Steve Nelsen

        I’m curious to see if they make any moves once contracts are no longer guaranteed. They clearly need DL depth but might be reluctant to guarantee money to rotational depth players.

  38. Thomas

    I wonder if they are trying to trade a player or two on their roster for picks. Maybe they want to trade Dallas (risky since he’s only RB who stays healthy). Maybe they want to trade Fant or one of the CBs.

    If that’s the case, they’ll wait until they can get a pick or two and then sign some warm bodies for the DL.

  39. Rick


    Are you surprised that the Seahawks did not try to add Matt Corral to their practice squad as someone they can groom next year instead of Drew Lock?
    Seems strange to me that they would rather have Holton Ahlers instead of Matt Corral.


    • Rob Staton

      I’m not surprised. They’ve invested a lot in Lock and clearly don’t rate Corral that highly

  40. cha

    Say goodbye and wish good luck to Noah Fant, kids.

    Adam Schefter
    Compensation update: TJ Hockenson is signing a four-year, $68.5 million contract extension that resets the tight end market, source tells ESPN. The $17.125 million annual average and $42 .5 million guarantee are the highest for a tight end in NFL history.

    TJH: 26 years old
    NF: 25

    TJH: 57 games
    NF: 64

    TJH: 246 catches
    NF: 220

    TJH: 2587 yards / 10.5 YPC
    NF: 2391 / 10.9

    TJH: 18 TD
    NF: 14

    TJH: 135 First Downs
    NF: 110

    • Rob4q

      Will be very interesting to see how those numbers compare after this season. If Det is paying TJ that much $$$, he should be the top receiving TE in the league this year!

      Is Fant out of contract after this season?

      • cha


        • Rob4q

          I think this is also a reason why Rob was advocating looking at some of the TE options in this past draft – there were a few good ones for sure! Let’s hope Parkinson does well this year.

          • cha

            He’s a free agent too. Only Dissly is under contract for 2024.

      • Spectator

        Det traded Hock last year. This is the Vikes making this move. Which is interesting. To me with the other players they have that will need deals soon. Specifically QB is out of contract next year even if I’m not mistaken.

        • Hawkster

          It doesnt explain what looks like anove market, but I feel Hock is very important in keeping Cousins on schedule

          • Spectator

            I didn’t disagree. By “interesting” I meant it was odd considering Vikes have many players that are going to be needing paid soon, so an overpay at TE is odd.

    • Gaux Hawks

      save that mula for chris jones, baybee!

    • Brodie

      Yowsa! That’s a huge contract.

      I’m a bit stunned that Fant’s numbers are so comparable. Feels like Hockenson has had a much bigger impact as a pro.

      • STTBM

        Hockenson avg 4.3 catches per game, 45.4 yds, and .31 TDs per game.

        Fantastic has averaged 3.43 catches, 37.4 yds, and .21 TDs per game.

        Definitely in same ballpark, stat-wise, but Hockenson are clearly better. I haven’t watched Hockenson blocking enough to know how that stacks up with Fants. But yeah, I can’t see Seattle being able to afford him, he’s a luxury.

        Besides, we gotta resign Uncle Will for that money….

        • Big Mike

          Besides, we gotta resign Uncle Will for that money….


        • BK26

          Hockenson is a MUCH better blocker than Fant. Fant is the worst blocking TE from Iowa that I can remember. They kind of gave up on him and let him focus on being a receiving threat. They’re not really in the same ball park talent-wise. Fant had so much upside but couldn’t reach it. Hock said as almost at his ceiling when he was drafted.

    • Big Mike

      In this case, Kelce is worth 25 per. I know he’s older but still……….

    • Denver Hawker

      If Fant can put up a full season of numbers equivalent of Hock/Cousins, then maybe he’s worth a tag? I imagine JSN eats too many targets for Fant to come near this type of contract.

      • samprassultanofswat

        Denver “I imagine JSN eats too many targets for Fant to come near this type of contract.” I imagine you are right.

        Yes, JSN will indeed eat up plenty of Fant’s targets.

      • Brodie

        Or a comp pick. I think our last one was 2018.

  41. Gaux Hawks

    What day does JA’s salary become guaranteed for 2023? Should we start a countdown?

    • Big Mike

      So does Carroll try yet again to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with him yet again next year in the rather likely event that his performance and health are what we’ve seen since 2/3 of the way through his first season as a Seahawk? Or does he FINALLY give in and move off the guy?

    • cha

      It’s always been game day.

      I suppose the Saturday deadline to make roster moves is the unofficial date it locks then.

  42. samprassultanofswat

    Good to see Cameron Young back practicing with the Seahawks. The Hawks NEED to dude.

    • Malanch

      “The Hawks NEED to dude.”

      They do need to dude, but one could fairly wonder whether Cam Young—a mid-round rookie who fell behind early and missed almost the entirety of training camp—will be able to contribute substantially to the team’s aggregate duding ability. History has shown that straggling rooks duly do little duding come football time. But on the bright side, you can bet Young will at least give more than Devon Witherspoon, who’s all but a lock for a lost season.

      • TomLPDX

        Don’t count Devon out just yet. Let’s see where he is at. These guys, in their rookie year, need to “dude out” at about 40% as far as I’m concerned.

        • Justaguy

          Witherspoon is a highly suspect top five draft pick but I get your optimism

        • Malanch

          “These guys, in their rookie year, need to ‘dude out’ at about 40%.” –TomLPDX

          Not top-five-pick rookies, they don’t. Expectations rise with price paid, and the price for Devon Witherspoon has been steep (especially considering the draft resources and opportunity costs involved). Forty percent won’t cut it with this guy.

          A premier non-QB draft prospect should be a plug-and-play starter as a rookie, or at least be demonstrably trending that way by the turn of October. On-field performance should justify above league average expectations going into the second year. It’s okay if a premier rookie struggles through his “welcome to the NFL” campaign, because premier rookies play the most important positions in the game and go head-to-head against the rarest specimens on the field. What matters is getting on the field (and staying there), building consistency, and establishing a reliable fit with the team.

          I don’t count out the possibility of Witherspoon managing to get on the field and eventually rack up a snap count of some meaningful quantity. However, I do count out the possibility of Witherspoon delivering top-five-overall impact this year—or anything close to it, for that matter.

          Recent Hawk history has been quite convincing on the matter of rookies who fall behind early, and this guy has flat gotten off to a rotten start. Worse, he lacks the rare physical traits of most blue-chip prospects, so he’s not in a strong position to overcome this extreme lack of practice and training the way a more naturally gifted rookie could. I doubt he’ll be able to showcase his trademark instinctiveness and physicality much at all this year beyond the occasional flash, due to his all-around underpreparedness.

          … Your 40 percent might just be what the Seahawks do get out of this guy in 2023—which would be spectacularly disappointing.

          • Big Mike

            100% agree Malanch. A top 5 draft pick ought to be challenging for a Pro Bowl in his first season……at least be in the conversation. Witherspoon is thus far a huge disappointment.

          • Peter

            Malanch, this is one of the strongest comments I’ve read on here in a while.

            I’m having premonitions of Witherspoon being the new “flash,” player that occupies the fanbases obsession. See:

            Procise, Thurmond, Penny, Adams, etc, ad infinitum….

            A top five pick from a year of the droning, grinding in “russ we trust,” one would hope would be close to Sauce Gardner or Aiden Hutchinson. I fully understand that is not going to be the case always but that remains the baseline of hope.

            I’m truly starting to worry that Witherspoon may be experiencing the yips. Which I believe is a harder thing to overcome than any physical ailment.

            • Peter

              Btw. I want it known that I DO want last years Witherspoon playing for Seattle. There’s probably no team in the league that could not use a player like that.

              Maybe the final thoughts on the issue that have been rolling around my head since before the draft:

              1. I dread the endless handles of never-commenters on this site that are going to come here every good play Carter has like Rob himself called John and told him not to draft Carter. When what Rob did was just state the facts.

              2. The biggest problem with CB at five for this team?…is frankly this team. By fluke of luck, superior instinct, world class coaching from Pete himself whatever the reason when you can find a HOF level corner in the fifth round and then 10 years on find a DROY corner again in the fifth round your highest pick ever for any position, but specifically at that position, will undoubtedly be compared to those players.

              • Big Mike

                Points 1 & 2 are both spot on Peter. Rob could well take far too much crap for reporting until/when Carter reverts to who he was at Georgia and at his pro day and it’s lousy. For my many criticisms of Pete Carroll, development of CBs is not one of them.

                I really wish they’d been able to trade the pick because there was just not much in the way of options after the Indy Tankers took AR. Of course that’s one of the reasons they were unable to trade it.

                • Peter

                  Trying to figure put how to root for AR yet hope Indy falls flat forever. I’m almost at the point where I’d be happier with Jerruh holding the trophy over Irsay and his b.s.

                  • Big Mike

                    Let’s hope neither happens in our/their lifetimes. That said, I’ now need to go vomit at the thought of either scenario happening.

                • Malanch

                  “I really wish they’d been able to trade the pick because there was just not much in the way of options after the Indy Tankers took AR. Of course that’s one of the reasons they were unable to trade it.”

                  Exactly. My final draft day call was either to trade up to #2 for Richardson or trade out of #5 altogether, but we knew ahead of time that was going to be difficult given the likeliness of Richardson being off the board prior to Seattle’s pick. And with Detroit and Philly evidently unwilling to trade up for Witherspoon or Carter, respectively, the odds of getting reasonable value on a trade-down were very slim indeed. The Hawks were stuck, just as many of us had foreseen, so they settled for a BPA pick the size of Kelly Jennings.

            • Blitzy the Clown


              C’mon Peter. I’m as frustrated as anyone that he’s not getting any action. But that’s because he has a troubled hammy, not a troubled psyche.

              • Peter

                I’m sticking with yips.

                Sorry but if Brooks can come back in nine months from surgery. There’s something else going on.

                I follow lots of non normal sports. Primarily strength sports. I have friends that have come back from surgically repaired hamstring and bicep tears faster. That’s at much older ages and without world class physical therapists. My brother in law is fifty and has ran ultra marathons after a surgically pinned tibia.

                I myself had a catastrophic work injury at age 40. ( spiral fracture femur, torn lcl and pcl, shattered ankle) I don’t have access to world class anything. I still had to go to my full time job. And I was back at it quicker than him.

                With respect. The hamstring once injured is often prone to injury reoccurance. That said if you have nine months to rehab a non surgical tear and it’s still not happening….I have to wonder if part of it is mental.

                • Peter

                  Sure these are examples from my own life. But look to the nfl. I remember when Suggs came back from career killing Achilles surgery in under six months.

                  I don’t like Adams. But much respect to him for coming back from an almost career killer as well in such a short time.

                • Big Mike

                  And I strongly wonder if the possible mental aspect is him still pissed about how the contract played out, which was not to his liking.

                  • Peter

                    Could well be. That’s a great point.

                • Blitzy the Clown

                  Oh yeah? Well my 80 something yo step dad has two fake hips and he skied more than a million vertical feet last winter. And?

                  Anyway, I remember thinking something similar was wrong with Darrell Taylor, But it turned out he just needed the time to rehab properly.

                  But I’m not here to sunny up anyone’s doom n gloom

                  • Peter

                    That’s great for your step dad. Clearly that’s important to him. That’s why I brought up those examples. Those things were very important to those people.

                    Taylor had surgery. Witherspoon has not. Like I’ve said a zillion times. I want the Witherspoon from college to be the Witherspoon in the pros.

                    You’re not sunny-ing up my doom and gloom. Dude got paid. Here’s hoping he goes off. Hopefully this nine month recovery time is not indicative of future contact and non contact related injuries.

                • Tatupu51

                  And Prometheus had an eagle eat his liver every day and it grew back everynight and he did not lose a single day of his eagle eating liver job, so no NFL player can miss any time because of an injury ever.

          • geoff u

            Well said. I am withholding judgment. I’d rather my initial reaction about the guy (jury concerns about his body vs play style) be incorrect, but this is not a good start. I really want two shutdown corners, and no I won’t be happy with the #5 pick of the draft being a slot corner either.

            • Edgar

              I agree 100% about drafting a short 18something lb nickel corner at #5. I also think it is justified to bring up facts as games are played about Carter.

              Right now Seattles biggest hole is DL, and as of now Jalen is on the field looking good for Philly while our little gadget guy sits out with an ongoing hammy issue.

              • Rob Staton

                Right now Seattles biggest hole is DL, and as of now Jalen is on the field looking good for Philly while our little gadget guy sits out with an ongoing hammy issue.

                This isn’t the point though and I really hope this kind of thought process doesn’t materialise with fans

                The Seahawks — and other teams — made a very obvious decision not to draft Jalen Carter and they had 100% every reason to take that position with the information they had. Anyone who second guesses this is in the wrong. He was a classic example of letting someone else roll that dice. If it works out for Philly, with half his former team mates on the same team, good for them.

                But at no point should anyone be pointing a critical finger at the Seahawks or any of those other teams who passed in the top-10. They were totally justified in doing so based on Carter’s own actions, attitude and approach to his career. That’s simply the truth.

                • Big Mike

                  I hope you have this truth bomb on your computer/phone so every time someone gives you or the Hawks crap for not drafting Carter you can just copy and paste this response and save yourself the time it takes to type it out.

                • Avery

                  ‘There was an element of risk in the pick and therefore anyone who questions the decision is in the wrong’. Yep, hard to argue with that.

                • Edgar

                  I was always on the ‘draft Carter if Richardson was gone’ wagon. The old slogan that games are won in the trenches just kept ringing in my ear. Aaron Donald has wrecked the Seahawks forever. Obviously the Eagles set up a good support system for Carter. I assumed Seattle would have hired on one of his coaches and brought in one of his teammates to help with the situation and it would have been smart since his talent level is almost that of a top QB prospect. Now that we all see that Seattle failed to address the glaring hole at NT from any angle, it stings even more.

                  • Rob Staton

                    It shouldn’t sting you in the slightest

                    This wasn’t a player who just needed a familiar arm over him

                    We’re talking about absolutely stock shattering, concern driving, maddening nonsense in his profile that led to a fall. That’s before the legal issue he was involved in which on its own was massively concerning.

                    Seattle was never taking him and neither was most of the league. That’s just how it is. Nobody should ever second guess that decision because it was the 100% right decision Seattle (and others) made regardless of what happens next.

                  • Edgar

                    Rob, agree to disagree. You have the best Seahawk content- Thanks

  43. Gaux Hawks

    “Rams WR Cooper Kupp (hamstring) suffers setback, day-to-day…”

  44. Allen M.

    With Cam Young back practicing as if yesterday, IIRC, it’s fine.

    Interesting waiver claims w/ Drake Thomas and the CB from the Ravens.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s fine… because a rookie who’s done nothing in camp now makes two DL’s over 300lbs on the roster…

  45. Donovan

    Longtime fan of SDB, so apologies if this is an ignorant Q:

    There is one all world DL who plays for a team seemingly going nowhere: Aaron Donald, Rams. Any chance if they’re in the cellar at trade deadline that they’d move him?

    Understand they’d be hesitant to trade w/in division, but might be at least be on the market come November?

    • Malanch

      The trade deadline is October 31st, after which there will be no $95M Aaron Donald on the Seahawks.

      • Malanch

        (That was the original guaranteed amount, not what he would cost a hypothetical trade partner—but still …)

    • Rob Staton

      I think he’d sooner retire than join a division rival

      • geoff u

        I’m not so sure, considering Bobby had no problem playing for the Rams last year. Absolutely no way the Rams trade him to Seattle though.

  46. cha

    Pete Carroll just said Adams won’t play Week One and probably not Week Two either.

    Witherspoon Week One might not happen either.

    • 805Hawk

      Shocked. Absolutely flabbergasted. Never saw that one coming.

      • Big Mike

        Yep, knock me over with a feather.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      All negativity aside, that’s a remarkable recovery timeframe.

      I thought he was for certain headed to IR until after week 4.

      Now let’s see if he can regain his athleticism and make an impact, without injuring himself again.

      • cha

        I thought he was for certain headed to IR until after week 4.

        I am shocked he wasn’t IR’d.

        I was bowled over by KJ Wright the other day.

        He was asked on 710 to choose between prime Bobby Wagner, prime Riq Woolen and prime JA and he chose prime JA.

        (((yes, we’ll never see prime JA again, but still)))

        • Big Mike

          Apparently KJ is a closet Jets fan

          • Avery

            Not fully the context of the question. Originally he said Tariq and hadn’t even considered Adams as a possibility. He was factoring in expectation/variance from.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          Tbf we have yet to see prime Woolen [Homer drool]

          But Bobby’s a sure fire HOFer. His prime is >>>> than Adams’!

          Gotta wonder what that’s all about.

        • STTBM

          Apparently KJ is the hawk who bought into bogus conspiracy theories about Jews as an entire ethnic group exploiting black people. Not sure if anyone else read about this awhile back, but I did, and I was shocked and saddened because I loved KJ the player.

          Not sure I’m going to give him credit for having two brain cells to run together and make a spark, let alone give any credence to him valuing JA above Wagner at any point.

          • Rob Staton

            This is true

            And KJ Wright has never truly shown any serious remorse for those comments or evidence of education on the subject

            He’s simply been allowed to carry on in the media without so much as a word, backed up by nice cushy gigs with the team

            A disgrace, frankly

            • STTBM

              Thank you Rob. I wasn’t sure anyone else had seen it, because it was barely a blip on the net, and few others seemed to care. I’m glad somebody with a platform does care.

              I’m not of Jewish descent, but I do try to stand up to stereotyping, racism, and bigotry, and I check myself from time to time when I catch my own attitudes and beliefs straying into the realm of unfairness and stereotyping. Catching oneself being wrongheaded is far less painful than becoming a raging jerk.

              Someone needs to explain this to KJ. Ok, rant done. Thanks again.

              • Rob Staton

                It’s a total and utter disgrace that he hasn’t been asked to educate himself on the absolute nonsense he spouted and has been allowed to just ‘carry on’ with various media opportunities, including an interview with Pete Carroll this week

                Astonishing given the subject matter he was spouting ridiculous offensive nonsense

                • Big Mike

                  I was not aware of any of this. Thank you both for educating me on KJ. Eff him.

                • Big Mike

                  Devon has not played a single snap


                • cha

                  Is this the Kyrie Irving stuff last year? That was really bizarre.

                  He did issue a twitter apology video. Not sure that was enough tho.

                  • STTBM

                    Similar. Louis Farrakhan type horsemanure, just softer, more insidious language.

                  • Rob Staton

                    I think, given the subject matter, a bit more was required

                • geoff u

                  Totally missed this. Damn. How disappointing.

    • Gross MaToast

      So, those three first round picks seem well-spent.

      (But, that’s not fair, man, like, it’s only week one, we don’t know how it’s going to go for the rest of the season and even the rest of their careers, man.)


      Meanwhile, the DL is overstocked with two (2) guys who weigh more than Kim Jong-un.

      • Big Mike

        Can never have enough DBs Gross, dontcha know? It’s important to have guys good at tackling opposing RBs 7 yards past the LOS, or at least help Bobby do so 5 yds past the LOS.

    • Big Mike

      At least with Witherspoon I still have hope that he ends up performing at level commiserate with the draft pick spent on him. The hope is fading but at least it’s still in there. I become more skeptical by the day, but it could end up working out. As for Adams, we saw his level of play before the injury and I’ll remind folks that level was pretty atrocious based on not only the eye test but more importantly his lousy PFF grades. What worries me is if he does return but struggles, Carroll will use the long recovery from injury as an excuse to bring him back for yet another season.

      • Tatupu51

        Devon has not played a single snap (because he is a rookie!) and we’re already losing hope? Come on

        • Big Mike

          blockquote<Devon has not played a single snap

      • Nathan

        I think it would have been cool to draft Giibs, and then free up 2nd round pick.
        Witherspoon will be a good player though.

  47. Blitzy the Clown

    Hey it’s something connected to the Seahawks that actually is “best in the nation”!

    Congrats Lumen Field

    • STTBM

      But the playing field sucks, and has resulted in lots of ugly injuries, many non-contact.

      I’m not buying it.

      • Big Mike

        Still not as bad as the Cardinals home field in Glendale.

    • cha

      They’re going to be offering a specialty hot dog tailored to each opponent this year at Lumen. I know there’s some comedy there somehwere.

      Gross Ma Toast, the floor is yours.

      • Gross MaToast


  48. Tatupu51

    I love this blog and I agree with Rob the majority of the time, including this post about the risks with the d-line.

    But the pessimism of some people in this board can be a little over the top sometimes… Guys are already giving up on Devon Whiterspoon! He was drafted 3 months ago, come on! Believe a little

    • Tatupu51

      And the guy above talking about “the yips” with Devon is just ridiculous and disrespectful to the player.

      Try to run weith hamstring injury and tell us if you have the yips, man.

      • STTBM

        Questioning Witherspoon’s mental toughness due to a hamstring injury is ridiculous. His durability is a concern, but it’s not even Week 1 yet. Some fans are way over the top, just like the ones freaking out over Carter making a few plays in the preseason.

        Long ways to go before we can rate either pick, alot can happen. Yes, you want a top 5 pick to play well from Day One, but injuries happen. Imagine if we’d picked Robinson instead, and not Charbonnet, and he was out with a hammy….the lamenting and gnashing of teeth would be positively Biblical…

        I’m frustrated he’s not healthy and taking a starting job too, but I’m not calling him a bad pick till he plays a bunch for a year or two, or he misses more than a year of games. He’s not Jamal Adams just yet…

        • Big Mike

          Looking forward to revisiting this along about week 14. I seriously hope you are both correct and my pessimism (and others’ here) is unwarranted.
          I maintain that this is at least partially due to his unhappiness over the contract though I fully admit I have ZERO proof of that. It is simply a gut feeling. Again, since I want the Hawks to win and he can contribute to that, I badly want to be wrong. Time will tell.

          • Tatupu51

            Please try to listen to what you’re saying: an NFL player is faking an injury or faking the severity of an injury because of a contract dispute that was resolved!? How that benefit him?

            In what reality is that possible? Unless Devon is a completely petty and unreasonable person. I mean, insane level unreasonable.

            Makes no sense.

            Kid is injured, it sucks, I wished also he had played in the preaseason and was available for all the practices, but it is what it is. We can be concerned with his early development because of the lost time, without giving up on a rookie before his first season even began!

            • Big Mike

              I know exactly what I’m saying. Hope I’m wrong, as I stated. I disagree that it makes no sense however. There is logic in my thought process. And I disagree that it would take an “insane level” of unreasonable to drag his feet at playing after his obvious unhappiness over how he’s being paid. Would it be petty as you stated? Yes it would. He wouldn’t be the first athlete to be petty over money nor the last.
              Again, I sincerely hope I’m totally wrong here and he plays soon and balls out. I remain skeptical.

        • Peter

          Yips: a state of nervous tension effecting an athlete in performing a crucial action.

          STTBM thank you for your response. I now realize that people think yips refers to mental toughness perceived or otherwise.

          When I said yips I meant yips. The actual definition. As in you have a hurt hamstring and now you are acutely aware of anything being off in regards to that and it effects performance.

          Folks. Get a grip. I’m not talking about Witherspoon’s mental toughness. I’m talking about the very real condition that happens wherein once hurt you get hurt you become likely to get hurt in the same area again and wherein you are naturally more hesitant to the point of effecting you.

          Some of y’all acting like I’m out here calling him pejoratives. Words that start with a “p” and end in a “y.” When I am literally not doing that.

          • STTBM

            Peter, I wasn’t meaning to single you out, you aren’t the only one worrying about Spoons mental/injury rehab. But you are saying it’s partially mental with Witherspoon, and not a legit injury, without a shred of proof.

            If and when Carrol implies he’s healthy but mentally hesitant–as he occasionally does–Im sticking with the idea his injury is legit, and physical.

            • Peter

              I didn’t think that at all STTBM ( still an all timer if a handle). I just don’t know really.

              Football is a game where we praise players for playing with hands wrapped like clubs. I’m not brooks or adams’ fan. But I give them tons of kudos for getting back. With adams will it actually stick? Who knows.

              With Witherspoon I think a lot of people are just like “wtf?” And if you’ve been around this era of hawks long enough people did have doubts about guys like Harvin, Penny, and a few others.

              Like I’ve said. It’s probably, hopefully nothing. He’s a top freakin’ five pick. I think everyone wants to see him ball out.

              • STTBM

                Thanks, Peter! Few left who remember or care why I use my handle.

                Hamstrings are tricky: rest is key. They often take longer than forecasted, and pushing them often leads to heartache. Carrol is notorious for ignoring doctors and believing healing can be magic. All too often it leads to bad things. I’m hoping they shut Spoon down for a month at least, let it heal. I’m far more worried about our run D than Bryant or Burns at nickel and Spoon not suiting up….

                • Peter

                  You’re spot here. Carol lives in magical world with very little sense of recovery times. I get the move they’ve made with him. If they keep him on active roster he can continue to practice and walk through which is promising.

                  In the big picture even if he missed the whole year, let’s say, but was a pro bowl level corner for the following years of his rookie deal he’d still be a great pick.

                  I made a comment about JSN and perceived “shutting it down,” in college….and I’ve been proven fairly wrong about that.

                  Some of my frustration is why does this continue happening? Is he or the team doing something that causes repeat injury?

                  • STTBM

                    I think it’s worth looking into why Seattle has so many non-contact/soft tissue injuries. I know Lumen field is considered sucky by players and has been responsible for numerous non-contact serious injuries. The turf they use is simply more dangerous to players than grass.

                    Perhaps they need to take a good hard look at their training staff and equipment staff. This years injuries seem to be well beyond the normal range.

      • Peter

        What are you talking about?

        I can’t be concerned that something else is going on that prevents a player to play?

        Disrespectful. Internet friend I don’t know any of these people and they don’t know me. This is not a matter of respect. He’s a kid set to make tens of millions of dollars playing a game. He’s not saving kids or solving world hunger. I’m not making fun of him or “disrespecting,” him.

        As I’ve said one zillion times since literally the second after he got drafted to a comment by our very own Big Mike “don’t worry he’s going to be great.” That’s nearly verbatim.

        I know this is not the framing you want but you can think two things at once:

        1. A completely reasoned concerned that a non prototypical sized player whose style is attacking may have problems in the pros with health issues.

        And as I’ve said tons of times…..

        2. That I also hope Devin Witherspoon who balled out in college is that same guy for Seattle.

        Just like I don’t know what’s going on with him turns out neither do you. And it’s fine to have concerns with Seattle’s track record of players who are injured early not working out the way we hope:


        And yes Taylor has worked out well and Lockett has balled out like he was never injured.

        • Big Mike

          And their track record on not injured first rounders is not great either i.e. Collier and Ifedi. Considering that as well as the injury history you mentioned, I think concern over Witherspoon and playing time is warranted.

          • Peter

            The list is so long I forgot those two Big Mike.

        • Tatupu51

          Kid has a common, lingering injury, that prevents players from running full speed. That’s it, no need to create a conspiracy theory about his mental state.

          You can walk back the yips comment here, but in the thread above you’re clearly questioning his toughness, giving examples of injury recovery, including your own. Just read what you wrote.

          • Big Mike

            I’m glad you’re supporting the kid. If Peter and I are proven wrong and he plays soon and balls out and does not have further injury issues, please come say to me anyway “I told you so”. I will be happy to chow crow on it because all I want is form this team is to win football games and I believe he could help in that pursuit.

          • Peter

            I said what I said. The yips. If you want to construe it as a “mental toughness,” issue please feel free.

            All any of us know is he had an injury that prevented an off season. And now he’s injured again.

            I’m with Big Mike here. I want dude to be a guy we all look at and say hell yeah that’s a top five pick. Someone as good as Sauce or Surtain ( top 10). That’s literally it.

    • Hawkster

      I personally am not ready to give up on anybody but did say on draft day one that they kinda went BPA on day one, except for the A part. And there are risks associated with picking up two first rounders both in rehab.

      That said I was mui not into the Locket trade expecting injury and persistent unavailability. Got a solid scare in the beginning on that, bit nobody can consider the lockett pick a bad one. That one is a serving of crow for me.

      • Big Mike

        And that injury he overcame to return to elite level was indicative of his commitment to being a great football player.
        Tyler is one of those guys that deserves HOF consideration imo but won’t get it because he plays in South Alaska and doesn’t make a lot of noise like a lot of WRs

        • Peter

          Think it was Corbin Smith who broke it down but it’s dumbfounded just how good he is and how little recognition he gets. Lockett.

          • Justaguy

            Lockett is legend. Just imagine the knowledge of route running he contains. The swiftness is the best way I describe it but it is pure agility he uses to play the ball in the air is very precious. Bobo has an opportunity to play with a legend and best take advantage

            • Peter

              Yeah bobo and jsn seeing how Lockett does it hopefully going to be a masterclass.

      • JimQ

        I was under the impression that Whitherspoon was supposed to be a CB –“capable of”– following the opposing teams “BEST” WR, –following– him on the outside —> as well as in the “slot”. I would think that the possibility of eliminating the opposing teams top WR would be attractive to PC (even though he has rarely used this concept, possibly because he hasn’t had a versatile enough CB that he could trust to do it — really well).

        + PC seems to be very protective of players coming off the injury list, not wanting to bring them back too quickly. I think that time will show that Whitherspoon was a worthy pick once he’s off the IR & given a chance to show his many talents. But then, I very much prefer to think positive rather than negative (especially before the season even starts).

      • Hawkster

        Pick, not trade, obviously … pick

    • Malanch

      “Guys are already giving up on Devon Whiterspoon! He was drafted 3 months ago, come on! Believe a little” –Tatupu51

      Believe a little? I believe a lot … in heeding history’s teachings. How many Hawk rookies can you name who got off to the kind of **** start Witherspoon has had but still went on as rookies to produce proportionally with their draft slots? (Cue the Jeopardy 30-second timer music.)

      I’m not giving up on the guy yet, because he might be able to overcome a disappointing rookie season and start putting things together in year two. It’s possible. But the odds of him providing year one impact at a top five level are Witherspoon-slim, no matter how much hopium one huffs. This isn’t being negative or pessimistic or cynical. It’s being observational.

      • Big Mike

        I believe a lot … in heeding history’s teachings. How many Hawk rookies can you name who got off to the kind of **** start Witherspoon has had but still went on as rookies to produce proportionally with their draft slots? (Cue the Jeopardy 30-second timer music.)

        What is “none” Alex?
        (with all due respect to Ken Jennings who I like a great deal)

    • Rob Staton

      RE: the OP

      Why do people constantly have to review what other people want to discuss?

      You can talk about anything (within reason)

      If you want to be optimistic about something, go ahead

      If you want to voice concerns about a #5 pick who has had the same injury since the draft season, you are free to do so without people judging

      It’s that simple people

      • Peter

        This is my bad. I did not want this to be a whole referendum.

        When you first started talking about him as the pick I saw the highlights and was duly stoked. I was also curious about an exceptionally high pick for the seahawks at the Corner spot and his let’s call it “non woolen/sherman,” like frame.

        In a world where Carter was a clean pick I can’t see another player that would make sense. And we don’t have Georgia’s support group like Philly and Carter was never the clean pick. Thus Witherspoon made the most sense.

        I just hope this is a protracted hill to get over and not a sign of future issues.

        • BK26

          No, you’re fine. Your opinions are always gladly welcomed. We are discussing a player that hasn’t been able to get on the field. Is a hard hitting guy being too cautious with an injury, is it a bigger injury than we thought? We don’t know. If this pick doesn’t work out, it looks VERTY bad and the Russ trade doesn’t look as good as it did. A top 5 pick.

          People get too worried about a discussion. Even here. You explained your point, don’t worry about it at all.

          • Big Mike

            This ^^ Peter

        • Malanch

          “In a world where Carter was a clean pick I can’t see another player that would make sense.”

          In a world where Carter was a clean pick, he would have been well off the board by the time Seattle was on the clock, leaving Will Anderson to fall to the Hawks (which is probably about par value for his talent). Then Witherspoon slips to Detroit. Something like this:

          1. Bryce Young – CAR
          2. Clean Carter – HOU
          3. CJ Stroud – HOU
          4. Anthony Richardson – IND
          5. Will Anderson – SEA
          6. Diminutive Witherspoon – DET

          • Rob Staton

            That is exactly what would’ve happened. Sadly Carter had one of the biggest character flag combinations we’ll ever see and that’s why he fell, despite his talent

          • Peter

            That looks right.

        • STTBM

          Well, Peter, you sure got people talking! That’s always a good thing.

    • McZ

      I was utterly against this pick and am still not giving up on the guy.

      But at some point we have to face reality:
      – Witherspoon held out for his rookie contract over guaranteed money before even playing a down; not exactly what an “all football player” (as he was advertised) is expected to do.
      – He is 30 lbs too light for this league at his position; for his subpar measureables, he is not accountable. For his lazy athletic numbers, his lack of work on the bulk front, he is.
      – As a result, injuries are about to happen. This is by design and part of the deal. Lingering issues from draft preparation is a red flag.
      – IMO, he is a nickel only player at best, a tweener at worst. He was drafted for his instincts. He should ask BBK how far instincts take you in this league.
      – Finally, the player has to prove he was worth the investment; at this point, he is basically a fancy name for fantasy football. I hope you signed him.

      Beyond Spoon I think, we cannot discuss one player in isolation. PFF rates our trenches as being respective #30 each. The secondary is rated #17. The way this roster is constructed is nothing short of a desaster.

  49. samprassultanofswat

    Malanch: When I was taking about Cameron Young. What I meant to say was that the Hawks need this dude. I feel a little better with Cameron Young as the backup to Jarran Reed. The Hawks really need Cameron Young.

    • Malanch

      I was just having fun with your typo (while addressing the point).

  50. samprassultanofswat

    Looks like the gold rush in 49er land could hit a snag.

  51. Palatypus

    So, I’m guessing that Rob next goes to sleep sometime in late February.

    Place your bets!

    • Malanch

      I’m not so sure about that. You know Rob’s gonna be studying plenty of Tyler Van Dyke, and Cristobal has pretty much cured insomnia with that offense of his.

  52. Ben

    Was just looking at Buccaneers RB Sean Tucker college highlights for fantasy football purposes, and watched him break a TD run against Albany back in 2021. Some giant dude nearly chased him down in a footrace, and uh was like this guy has to have made it as a flier to the NFL right?? Turned out it was a freshman, didn’t know Jared Verse started in Albany! I know we’ll likely have bigger needs, but still wouldn’t mind him joining the team.

    • Malanch

      “I know we’ll likely have bigger needs, but still wouldn’t mind (Verse) joining the team.”

      Jared Verse put up monster numbers in his first year at FSU, and I think Rob was looking to put him high up on his board prior to Verse’s surprise return to Tallahassee. Currently, CBS Sports and Pro Football Network are projecting Verse to go #8 overall; Sporting News has him at #7, NFL Draft Buzz is at #6 … in other words, if he does join the team in 2024, something went seriously wrong for either Verse or the Seahawks in 2023.

      • Ben

        Are you saying we don’t get someone else’s top 5 pick again? I was just getting used to that! This past draft season was frustrating at times but boy was it a spoiled year for draft talk.

  53. JimQ

    A “big” DT that has potential & may be actually available in the 2024 draft for the Seahawks is one I intend to follow closely. DT-Tyleik Williams has some pretty decent physical attributes (see below). Looking at the DT draft class, it’s pretty devoid of “big” guys. Ohio State should be on TV a lot, so one to watch?

    • CojackTX

      You should also keep an eye on Texas DT T’Vondre Sweat (#93, 6’4”, 362). He is actually not playing the nose in Texas’ D, which speaks to his juice as a rush threat as opposed to being strictly a run stopper. The guy was a DE recruit but then ballooned in size while remaining proportionate and maintaining functional athleticism. He had a good game against Alabama past year, and I expect him to stand out again next week in Tuscaloosa.

  54. 805Hawk

    So, OTC just updated salary cap space and we are now at just $2.75m. What the heck happened to drop it that significantly? I thought we had like $11m or so. Cha?

    • 805Hawk

      Actually, just found this on OTC…
      Today you may have noticed a big change on OTC with every teams salary cap number’s with most teams cap room falling by a pretty sizeable amount. The reason for the change is that we have now made the change to regular season accounting for each team which means rosters count in full, including players on reserve lists, practice squads, etc…and those numbers add up quickly.

  55. ElroyNumbers

    We will sign someone after week 1 so their contract isn’t guaranteed. There are a few decent vet DT available. But vet DT are prone to injury hence the wait until after our first game. Mone should be available by mid season and is a serviceable backup or 3rd string nose.

  56. Blitzy the Clown

    Iowa St safety Sebastian Castro is a player

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Iowa not Iowa St

      • BK26

        That defense is going to be FUN to watch. The offense…not in the least.

  57. Blitzy the Clown

    Big win for Colorado

  58. Blitzy the Clown

    Maurice Heims with the hit of the day!


  59. cha

    Penix came ready to play.

    He’s reading, throwing and connecting.

    • cha

      UW OL dominating / Boise St pass rush stinks.

      Also Taylor Green’s WR group needs to buy him dinner tonight to apologize. They can’t catch to save their lives.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      He’s spreading it around thicc. McMillan, Odunze, Polk, Westover…

      Took a series or two, but this Huskies offense is humming

  60. Thomas

    Well… to get WAY ahead of things…

    Deion Sanders as Pete’s replacement?

    He’ll probably have been an NFL coach for a few years by that time.

    Still… if he’s coaching his son at Colorado then maybe he’ll see that though.

  61. Blitzy the Clown

    JJ Watt @JJWatt

    It cannot be overstated what Deion Sanders did today.

    To turn the whole Colorado program around from what it was last season to today beating a team that played in the National Championship last season…

    It’s one thing to talk about it.
    It’s another to actually do it.


  62. Henry

    I’m still seeing people claiming Nix and Penix Jr are locks for round 1 after performances….against pee wee teams (Boise St ain’t what they used to be) and making throws to wide open guys. Ugh

    • Ashish

      Penix Jr has a good arm. He looks good today.

      • Henry

        I agree with the good arm part. But, a good arm does not equal being a good QB. A lot of people getting carried away with Milton from Tennessee since he also has a good arm. Give me a close game with these QBs and that would be a more accurate assessment than playing these creampuff teams

        • BK26

          Milton has also been beaten out twice by guys a lot less physically talented than him. He’s got a lot to prove this year. And him and Penix both play in systems that are going to make them look like the best players in the country.

          A lot to tape to be waded through to get good assessments of them.

  63. Palatypus

    “Robbing” Eglin Air Force Base of the “Darkstar.”

    “Robbing Eglin Air Force Base of a MOAB.

    Got to start the season off right!

  64. Vanhawksfan

    Drake Maye looks absolutely effortless when he throws the ball and he has some wiggle for 6’4”. I understand the hype.

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