When John Schneider spoke at the owners meeting he talked about the type of player they set out to acquire this off-season.
“Smart, tough, reliable guys that love football”
All teams are looking for those characteristics. Sometimes they veer off course trying to fill a need. Or they fall for a particular skill set or profile.
Example: Malik McDowell
The Seahawks wanted an interior pass rusher. They’d been looking for one for a while. Calais Campbell was too expensive in free agency and McDowell had some physical similarities to a young Calais.
It’s easy to see why they took a shot.
The pick ended up being a disaster. McDowell may never play a down of NFL football after suffering an ATV accident before training camp.
‘Smart’ and ‘reliable’? Not in the case of Malik McDowell. Hopefully he’ll have an opportunity to make amends. And yet the warning signs were there. They were just ignored.
On April 17th last year it was revealed he was meeting with the Seahawks. Here’s a piece we wrote on the day. And here’s an extract:
His body language is atrocious. I remember watching this interview during the season and immediately thought ‘this guy doesn’t seem like a Seahawk’.
It seems like it isn’t just a lack of enthusiasm for the media either. Eric Edholm reported the following about how teams viewed McDowell’s interviews at the combine:
“Worst interview we did,” said one team. Added another: “Awful interview. Awful.”
“Does he love football? Is he going to work? I can’t figure out what makes this kid tick. He might be the type who, maybe he falls and it lights a fire under him. I don’t know. But I need that light on more often, and he didn’t like it when we asked him about that. McDowell might never fully show his full skill, but passing on him also means you’re missing out on a potentially rare talent.”
It’s not the first time Seattle has taken a chance on talent. Christine Michael was a similar pick. The Percy Harvin trade was high-risk.
Some of the moves have paid off though. Bruce Irvin was a gamble of sorts. Frank Clark is now the best pass rusher remaining on the roster.
Will they continue to roll the dice? Maybe not this year. It’d be a surprise if they drafted Arden Key, for example. Derrius Guice insists he has no off-field issues but there’s consistent chatter to the contrary. Bob McGinn’s anonymous scouting sources say this about Guice:
“He had a lot of hype coming in. He’s got a lot of off-field stuff you’ve got to worry about.”
His aggressive running style is extremely similar to Thomas Rawls — a player hand-picked by Pete Carroll in 2015. He’s not the explosive running back they’ve often targeted (and he’s not the same explosive tester as Rawls) but in terms of size and style — he’s a match. If the character concerns are legit, however, they might look elsewhere.
It’ll also be interesting to see how they approach underachievers. Bo Scarborough had a very underwhelming college career. He flashed incredible talent in 3-4 games and disappeared for the rest, playing well within himself. Lorenzo Carter is seen as an underachiever and Connor Williams had a disappointing 2017 season leading some to question his toughness (per McGinn’s sources: “He should have gone back. Really a soft guy. Really good athlete with really good feet and movement. But he gets pushed and didn’t look like he was real tough“).
Are the Seahawks all about competitive fire, having a chip on your shoulder and production this year? Or will there come a point where talent outweighs performance?
We’ll find out in a month.
So who are some of the players that fit the ‘smart, tough, reliable’ description?
There are a few that spring to mind but it’s difficult to judge from afar. This is why ‘draft media’ can never truly get a thorough grasp on the draft. There’s so much information we’ll never have access to.
Nick Chubb competed like crazy to return from a career-threatening injury and return to his physical best. He visibly bristles when people underestimate him and has this inner fire and determination. He also runs hard but he’s not alone. Ronald Jones II and Kerryon Johnson don’t necessarily have the back story or adversity but they run with real aggression.
It’s hard not to be impressed with the way defensive backs Kameron Kelly, Quenton Meeks and Isaac Yidaom speak. Mature, focused, determined. Austin Corbett has battled and fought to reach a level where he could easily sneak into the back-end of round one.
Andrew Brown lost his mother at a young age and plays with a relentless fire. He didn’t necessarily live up to the recruiting hype but he gives everything on the field. Leighton Vander Esch, Rashaan Evans and Maurice Hurst play the right way.
There are also players that overcame personal tragedy like USF quarterback Quinton Flowers or battled for their opportunity like Devante Kincade.
But really, there’s one name that stands out more than any other when you’re talking about ‘smart, tough and reliable’.
Shaquem Griffin will be one of the grittiest players to ever enter the NFL. That’s not hyperbole. I can honestly say I’ve never watched a player perform with his level of intensity, effort, passion and determination. Every drop of adversity he’s faced in his life is taken onto the field with him and punished.
His Peach Bowl performance against Auburn might be the best effort I’ve ever seen from an individual player in a team sport. The only time I can recall a similar effort is when David Beckham dragged England to the 2002 World Cup with an energy sapping solo performance against Greece at Old Trafford.
Griffin gave absolutely everything against Auburn. He chased every lost cause, recorded 12 tackles and 1.5 sacks.
Look at this effort:
👀 STONED LACK DRAFT WATCH – Shaquem Griffin 3/6 👀
Was wir am meisten lieben: THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER! Er hat ein Gefühl für das Spiel…siehe hier: Toller Pass Rush Move, beteiligt am Turnover, legt dann den Block für den Raumgewinn! pic.twitter.com/87OTrno72w— STONED LACK (@StonedLack) March 7, 2018
Not only did he impact the initial hand-off with his quickness, he then sprints to the near sideline to deliver one of the best blocks you’ll see on a fumble return.
He’s not just an effort player either. He can disengage:
Watch @Shaquemgriffin (edge defender) shed this block on the edge with his right hand to assist on a goal line stop. He weighs 220, and the tackle (TCU's Joseph Noteboom) weighs 306.#SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/gWEqyAwyma
— Chase Goodbread (@ChaseGoodbread) January 25, 2018
He can work through traffic into the backfield:
Shaquem Griffin SACK!!!!!! Don't doubt this young man. He will play in the NFL pic.twitter.com/ZfRUeELTov
— NCAAF Nation (@NCAAFNation247) January 1, 2018
Hand use is vital at the next level but so is quickness, the threat to work the edge and a nice counter:
LB @Shaquemgriffin wins with speed up the field and then spins inside for a sack. Griffin was 8th in QB pressures in 2017 with 52. pic.twitter.com/Eeff90nF8u
— Cover 1 (@Cover_1_) January 22, 2018
The 4.38 forty really shows up when he’s running in pursuit:
ICYMI: Here is video of @Shaquemgriffin sack to end the half. (Courtesy: @AustinRLyon )🏈🏈 pic.twitter.com/UJ0teNzYRw
— Despina (@DespinaBarton) October 15, 2017
And I could list loads of videos simply highlighting his effort and relentless attitude:
#ChargeOn RT @SBNation: Shaquem Griffin has one hand, and he WILL sack your quarterback. pic.twitter.com/mdr3qQjfA4
— Allie Jest (@JestAllie) November 16, 2016
Griffin isn’t a great story because he only has one hand. He’s a great story because there isn’t a single player in college football that can match him for effort, determination speed and production. His effort is infectious and there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this rubbed off on his team mates. UCF were a bunch of BAMF’s last year. Griffin set the tone.
Unquestionably there are things he needs to work on. His zone coverage can be poor at times and he gives up avoidable receptions due to suspect positioning. He may never be able to set the edge against the run and there are going to be plays where he’s driven off the ball. He’s a 227lbs linebacker playing with one hand. It’s going to be quite a challenge to do anything about that. Thus, he possibly won’t ever be an every-down linebacker.
Even so, Griffin is going to dramatically improve the team he ends up with. Through his effort, attitude and ability. He is a terrific nickel pass rusher. He didn’t fluke 33.5 TFL’s in the last two seasons or 18.5 sacks. Put him on the field on third down and there’s a good chance he’ll make a play. There’s great value in that. Teams will have to account for his speed and pursuit whenever he’s on the field.
In a game against a mobile quarterback he could be a useful spy. On special teams he could be an immediate captain. The energy and spirit he brings to a team will be evident. He’ll be the one leading the huddle one minute and then the guy leading by example on the field the next.
Low percentage of snaps? Possibly. Likeliness of impact? High.
I don’t know how early he’s going to go in the draft. You hear all sorts. It’ll depend on how teams see the value of a core special teamer and nickel linebacker. But there isn’t another player in this draft class that personifies grit, toughness, athleticism, strength and reliability better than Griffin. And there won’t be anyone in the next draft either, or the one after that.
If the Seahawks want to go back to punching above their weight, they could do a lot worse than tap into the UCF mentality from 2017. Griffin would provide another pass-rush option and help improve a stalling special teams unit.
Pete Carroll certainly enjoyed his forty yard dash at the combine:
Pete Carroll’s reaction to Shaquem Griffin’s 4.38 forty is priceless #Seahawks pic.twitter.com/Ivor3CBIm9
— Rob Staton (@robstaton) March 4, 2018
After the draft we may well look back and consider, with hindsight, how inevitable it was that the two Griffin brothers would be reunited in Seattle.
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Happy Easter Rob and everybody!
I think Griffin and Chubb would be great selections. I would love to see us draft some gritty players with good character.
Being talented and lazy isn’t a good combo. When I was in high school I played with two very different star players, player A was high character, would run on the field till he puked after class, avoided drinking and partying.
Player B was a 4 Star running back, he was lazy and had character issues but supremely talented. He was wanted by Oregon, Florida, USC and Washington.
Player A ended up at Stanford with Harbaugh, Sherman, Luck and Baldwin. He ended up with two ACL tears and couldn’t play anymore. He now works in business for Tech companies in Silicon Valley.
Player B dropped out, didn’t finish high school and was up to no good til he became a father.
Character matters, I’d rather be surrounded by grit, determination than high talent and lazy.
Character matters. When I think back to the McDowell pick, I really wanted to love it. I tried to justify his taking plays off during last year at MSU when he had to play nose tackle completely out of position. I was excited to see what he could do with his immense potential. When I heard about the accident, I thought damn. We could have had Obi Melifonwu or TJ Watt. The thing is when you’re 20 something and riding ATVs in the woods with buddies, there’s usually alcohol involved. I’m not saying McDowell was drinking, but it’s a possibility. He also chose to not wear a helmet. His injuries hat we know of like the orbital (facial) fracture and awful concussion could have been prevented.
If we had Melifonwu, who had multiple visits with Hawks including visits to the VMAC, we would have a replacement at one of the safety spots. If we had TJ Watt, we would have a SAM/LEO with a 1.5 second 10 yard split. The name Malik actually makes me mad.
On a brighter note, happy Easter everyone! I hope everyone has a great dinner planned with your loved ones tonight.
Melifonwu was also injured for most of the season and ended up with a grand total of 7 tackles. Living in Oakland, I was hoping to see his game up close but he could not get on the field. Let’s see if he can bring something this year.
As my old high school football coach used to say, “hard work beats talent when talent isn’t working hard.”
It appears Griffin is a hard worker and talented, a win-win that I believe the Seahawks would be lucky to have.
Rob, I do wonder about his size. Do you know of other “undersized” pass rusher/LB’s comparable to Griffin with success in the NFL? (I can’t imagine many comparable players were able to run a 4.38, which makes me wonder if Griffin may be a truly unique talent)
There aren’t any that spring to mind. He’s very much a nickel LB rather than a pure EDGE. Very unique player.
He would be great to BW and KT a rest on third downs and long passing downs. Or of course play the LEO.
Couldn’t you see him in a Troy Polamalu type of role? Not the same size per sai, but the X factor… or the wild card / joker type of player… that can have dynamic impacts on the run or pass game due to his instincts.
You have to go back a few years, but what about former Seahawk Rufus Porter?
Holy crap, that was the first thing that entered my mind too!
Pro Football Reference has Rufus at 6’1″ 228.
Shaq 6’1″ 225.
Great comp!
Mac, nice story. Thank you for sharing.
The Griffin bros together again would be a great thing.
Looking back at Calais Campbell being deemed too expensive at $15M/yr but pissing $12M away on Joeckel & Lacy combined… Ugh. 17M more for Sheldon & Brown. Oh how things might have been. Moving on.
One years deals for Joeckel & Lacy versus a four year deal for Campbell. That is huge going forward.
One of my favorite players in this class.
He embodies everything PC/JS preach about.
Agree with this completely if PC wants to rebuild the culture of the Hawks in his manta of always compete there is no better player in this draft than Griffin. His effort and attitude are clearly infectious and I for one would be OK if they take him higher than expected for this alone.
Once again though with only one pick in the first 3 round if he does in fact go on Day #2 it will all depend on what kind of draft capital we can pickup.
A standout special teamer and nickel LB has definite value.
The only potential reason he may not end with the Hawks is because they don’t have the draft capital to get him or they signed Mingo for that role and prefer to use the draft capital elsewhere.
My 4 really, really want picks for the Hawks purely as a fan are
1) Wynn
2)Rojo
3) Shaq Griffin
4)Nathan Sheppard
Not sure any will end up as Hawks but if we could even get one or two of them I would be so pumped.
You have to weigh his potential impact vs what you’re getting in number of snaps. However, you can’t just expect him to fall because other teams will see the value in him as well. He’s a great athlete but he’s a better story that can be used in marketing, etc. I see him as a 4th rounder because of everytbinfmostes above, but I don’t think he gets out of round 3. Too much hype and too much feel good story. Also, he’s a football player. Nobody has ever had to give him anything. He’s used to proving people wrong. I wouldn’t bet against him.
Ideally he would be our pick in Rd #4 but I agree could well go in Rd #3.
That’s the tough part. Yes he’s “seahawky” but it just takes one of the other 31 teams to take him earlier than most of the others will be comfortable with.
If things stay the same pick wise (which I’m sure they won’t for SEA), will he be there in the 4th at pick #120? I doubt it.
Everything mentioned above* we really need an edit feature lol. Hard to do this on my phone.
I agree – I misspell so darn many times. I want my posts to be a perfect read for the other fans!
Guice has an interesting backstory and the requisite chip on his shoulder. 220lbs w/ 4.4 speed, very strong production, age, and the tape, especially when not playing hurt, to remind me more of Lynch than Rawls. Guice has far more contact balance and keeps his feet better than Rawls. I really don’t see them as that similar other than some attitude, approach. He has one of those backgrounds that I believe the Seahawks like if you look into it.
That said there are many good backs in this class. I just hope we land one that is special.
John Kelly improved his 40 time to 4.5 at his pro day. He runs pretty angry too. I haven’t seen his 10 split. 40.times are a very small component, I realize. Just thought I’d throw out there a simple number at start with.
I don’t see a Lynch comparison with Guice at all personally. Which is no slight on Guice, Marshawn is unique. But to me Guice is almost identical to Rawls in terms of running style not Marshawn.
Guice had a difficult upbringing with the situation with his dad and now brother but with respect to him, not sure it’s necessarily required him to express any extra grit in his football career.
McGinn’s sources expressed some character concerns. Hatman has expressed them too now. I’m not going to go into any detail here but my own personal opinion is — I can see why teams would have some concern. Just my take. And I’m not convinced the Seahawks will draft him and I think he might last longer than the national media believe.
“Not sure it’s necessarily required him to express any extra grit in his football career” what do you mean by that?
His play is gritty, what better way do you want him to to express it than by running through mofos faces.
Or do ya mean that he has just always been bigger stronger than his competition or something?
I’m nervous that trying to be too cute with trading back could leave Seattle with limited options even in a deep RB class. I think we can all agree S. BARKLEY, will be the first rb off the board, then it’s a crap shoot on who goes next depending upon what teams value. I’ve seen articles in The LA Times, Journal Sentinel, in Milwaukee and papers in Washington DC and Tampa that have Tampa, Washington, going after RB’s with their first picks. I’ve also read a few articles on raiders, packers and San Fran, that have their fans wanting RB as well, regardless of recent pick ups like Doug Martin, and others by those teams. Based on what we know and what Seattle has done in past drafts, trading back once, if not twice seems logical to recoup the picks from this years trades. Rob, knowing this do you think, we still get a Ronald Jones, Nick Chubb player based upon these scenarios? Thanks.
I mean exactly what I said.
I don’t think his backstory has necessarily added anything to his football career.
But while we’re on the subject of grit… he didn’t show that much against Alabama after calling out their defense for being scared, only to have his arse kicked for four quarters.
He is one of those guys that could slip into the third round – or be picked in the top of the second. I see him as 4-6 running back taken.
So you don’t think his gritty backstory and his gritty play have any correlation?
I don’t know him but dude is from a rough neighborhood in Baton Rogue and his dad got his brains blown out when he was a kid. He breaks a ton of tackles and gets a bunch of yards after contact. He has two younger brothers and had to step up and be man of the house before he was 10. One of his brothers caught a charge recently for being a getaway driver in drivebys so obviously his bro is a banger like his dad was. He used football as his way out and runs angry. He battled through ankle injuries through 2017 and didn’t miss a game. He didn’t exactly get punked in that Alabama game; almost 100 yards and 4 ypc (better than Chubb who I prefer) and some nice first down runs. Never did he back down or tuck tail like a beat dog in that game. His team got their asses kicked just like they did when fournette was in the backfield. Look at the replies to that mud slinging tweet about guices character, the LSU fans sure like him and come running to defend him and his character.. That tweet was just repeating what he heard from other guys with anonymous sources. Just like other people will do with what they heard from you. I asked you what you meant because I thought you might be able to elaborate a little but seems you just don’t like him because his backstory and play are both gritty, like it or not.
Look at the replies? You mean from a bunch of LSU fans?
Dan Hatman doesn’t have a horse in the race. He is sharing information which I’ve seen elsewhere too — from actual NFL scouts courtesy of Bob McGinn.
I hate to say it but it seems to me you’re kind of like those fans replying on twitter, a big Guice fan unwilling to hear any criticism of the player. Not how I do things on here. We don’t pick ‘favourites’ and defend them to the death. We talk about positives and negatives. Some players have very few negatives, such is life. Others get critiqued. Guice is an aggressive running back without doubt. I don’t think he’s particularly ‘gritty’ (grit does not = ‘running hard’). And as I noted before — it’s not a great look when you call out Alabama for being ‘scared’ and then get your arse kicked for four quarters by their defense. That wasn’t particularly gritty. Rashaan Evans was gritty that day when he was chasing Guice around the field and knocking six shades of you know what out of him.
The fans are the ones who have been whatching what he’s been doing the past years. In their replies they reference specific actions that have shown the good deeds he has done which is why I made that small reference to the tweet replies (not sure why you focused on that). You know, actual people, talking about actual things that happened that pertain to his character (not anonymous sources). My opinion is that hatman’s Insights were just McGinn’s recycled rumors. Not a single person backed up Hatman with instances that showed guice to be a bad charcter, no one even backed him up at all. Guice is from the hood, surrounded by gangbangin, living his life under a microscope as a top nfl prospect and manages to keep his nose clean enough that all we know is he has “some character concerns” from “anonymous sources”. Idk man but seems like an ok dude after watching his interviews, sounds like he might love football too.
I’m no Guice fan boy any more than you are a RoJo fan boy (I like them both, I don’t pick favorites and defend them to the death either lol) . I’m no LSU fan, I live in pioneer square. I agree with many of your criticisms of him, he sure isn’t lynch and that comparison is crazy. I just think he is athletic and gritty enough, seems you don’t. I also think his performance against Alabama was fine (no worse than fournette or Chubb, two running backs I like a LOT)
I think running tough and playing through injuries are gritty traits , I guess we disagree on that too. I do like Rashaan Evans tho.
Fans are not a realiable judge in a situation like this. They just aren’t. I could give you an example about a situation I had to deal with in my day job, with fans defending a player at all costs. It’s not appropriate to talk about it here. But let’s just say, nothing those fans said on twitter diminishes Hatman’s point. Or McGinn’s sources. And I understand where they are coming from too.
Gotcha. Fair point. I don’t claim to know his characters I’m just going off the only things I’ve got (tape, interviews, fan’s approval ratings apparently annnnddd a couple really vague nonspecific ‘sources’ referencing anonymous sources). I agree we shouldn’t put much if any weight in fan’s opinions of players. Seems like you, hatman and mcGinn must know something about him that I don’t. Thanks for the reply.
No problem. And I’m not meaning to be obtuse so hope you didn’t feel put out — but there are some concerns out there. I’m not going to talk about my feelings on it on here, it’s not right. But I’m also not going to deny I don’t have some concerns. Might mean nothing in the pro’s. But it’s something to consider when there are 4-5 useful alternatives.
“Andrew Brown lost his mother at a young age and plays with a relentless fire”
And Guice lost his father at a young age and plays with a relentless fire.
Except guice did live up to the recruiting hype (although didn’t play his best in 2017 due to an ankle supposedly)
I just don’t see the disconnect.
I’ve tried explaining it several times already on Guice.
Brown’s situation was very different. His parents had separated, he was about 12 years old.
@Robstation never thought I will say it but Hawks should take 2 second draft for ET and move on. I hope they have offer from couple of team. Can’t wait for draft day.
Rob,
I posted this on the last article not long before you posted this new one. Would you mind taking a crack at it?
Thanks!!
“1. Coleslaw raised a point that I would like to have you address if you wouldn’t mind. I have seen in a few threads the discussion between taking Griffin vs Jacobs. Would you mind doing a compare and contrast on those two guys and giving us your opinion on which you would take (assuming you could only choose one) and why? “
Very different players. Jacobs is 20lbs heavier for a start. He could be developed into an orthodox linebacker or a SAM/LEO. Has the length, size, speed. Griffin is a nickel LB/pass rusher and special teamer. Both play hard.
Thanks.
Assuming their value was about equal, which position do you think do the Seahawks have the greater need for going into the draft?
Re-posted to get some feedback:
Here is another mock that I am asking for feedback on in advance. A work in progress and an adjusted version of Robs mock, that I thought was fantastic BTW.
Some early thoughts and comments: this one held to a common theme of fixing the run game first, so we’ll go after a RB with our first pick. Also assuming we are keeping ET (for now).
RUNNING BACK
The more I go back-and-forth watching tape of the top tier running back’s, the more I love the breakaway ability and “IT” factor that RoJo has. If I were the GM I would say, this is the guy I’m going after – what’s it going to take? My concern is the response might be that 33 is likely too late And we might miss him with that pick. Might need to work with a different trade partner, or work out a mini trade up deal to increase our odds of getting him. I have seen several comments that point to Philadelphia possibly picking him at 32. If there is much of a chance of that at all, our first pic needs to be at least 31 NE. I know we have already discussed the New England trade, and may need to go back there to increase our chances of getting what we want.
OL
It seems less likely that two of the top OL prospects (Corbett & Smith) might still be there at #64. Do you all agree with that opinion? Would be sweet to hit the OL again here if possible, but not sure it is. Anyone know how good Cappa really is? Is he a viable/smart pick in the later rounds if we don’t get some OL help earlier?
WR
If no OL with #2, then Settle if he is still there and if not a WR to assist the offense? I don’t hear much discussion about Callaway. Seems a good value if he drops as expected?
CBs
With the loss of Sherman, Shead, and Lane (kind of a non-factor honestly, I thought he was horrible), we are down 3 CBs. It seems none of our current CB stable, besides Coleman, has really been able to step up and although I do like Maxwell in a BU role, he seems easily exposed with a lack of speed. If our current group aren’t at the level we need, don’t we need to fill in those gaps? I know this is not a great CB class, but should we take a shot at a couple so we don’t get eaten in the secondary? It appears we are looking at FS and SS in the draft some. Should that be transitioned to CB based on our needs and the fact we are stronger at S now than we are at CB (my assumption)?
P
And just because I can’t stop replying to my own post, how many of you think we should be interested in King as a replacement punter for Ryan?
And if so, what is the max we should pay?
(Just love it when that guy booms a monster punt and if we really improve our special teams, could be a super good addition to assist in positive field position exchanges.)
TE
Pushed out TE selection lower to do some other things earlier. Would we be ok with Dissley in a later round instead of Schultz and Smythe?
2#33 — Running back first (Ronald Jones II, Nick Chubb or Kerryon Johnson)
2#64 — Tim Settle DT / Austin Corbett OG / BJ Hill DT / Chark WR / Kirk WR / Braden Smith OG
4#120 — Kameron Kelly (DB, San Diego State)/ Nick Nelson CB Wis
5#141 — Griffin OLB / Nick Nelson CB
5#146 — Leon Jacobs (LB, Wis)
5#150 — Natrell Jamerson (S, Wis)
5#156 — Dorian O’Daniel (LB, Clemson)
5#168 — Chase Edmonds (RB, Fordham) / Alex Cappa OT / Quinton Meeks CB
7#226 — Dissley TE / Antonio Callaway WR
7#248 — Poona Ford (DT, Texas) / Marquez Valdes-Scantling (WR, USF) / Antonio Callaway WR
UDFA: Piniero K (can we please not screw up the K position this year?)
Lots of questions asked above. Looking forward to some feedback from Rob and the collective brain trust here!!!
Our kicking game definitely needs to be addressed. However, with our limited draft capital, and all the holes from the off-season purge, I don’t think we can afford the luxury of drafting kickers. It seems more likely it’ll be a training camp competition between low cost free agents and UDFAs.
Corbett will not be available at 64.
You can say Corbett probably won’t be there…..stop dealing in absolutes….Nobody thought, Jimmy Clausen would last till 2nd round or Jesse Williams to 5th etc etc
It seems to me that it’s definitely more difficult to reach the stated goal of establishing an effective running game if you lack weapons in the passing game. With the loss of receiving talent (Graham, Willson, Richardson), I wouldn’t be surprised to see them targeting a WR fairly early. It’s not supposed to be a deep WR draft class, but you just need one if it’s the right guy.
All of this to state the obvious, that different parts of the offense are interdependent on each other.
I think I read in the Tennessee news paper that they would be a trade partner with Seattle due to them wanting OL, IF I remember correctly. Not sure, if that trade back would be enough to still have a Chubb or Jones available. I’m just hoping we do get a Chubb, Jones or Guice. I’m nervous about Guice, for some reason, but he definitely has a chip on his shoulder.
Meeks won’t be there @168.
You can say Meeks probably won’t be there…..stop dealing in absolutes….Nobody thought, Jimmy Clausen would last till 2nd round or Jesse Williams to 5th etc etc
Another great article. Honestly I’m not sure how you pump out so many articles with so much great and factual content. This is an especially interesting one to me as I and several others think about the Griffen brothers potentially being united.
Thanks again for all your great work!!
Interesting (negative) take on the Seahawks 2018 outlook . . .
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767052-updated-nfl-power-rankings-entering-draft-month
Current Power Ranking Projection #28:
“In 2017, the Seattle Seahawks were a nine-win team that ranked in the middle of the pack (14th) at Football Outsiders in DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) and weren’t hit particularly hard by injuries in what was an injury-filled season across the NFL. Remove Richard Sherman, Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Paul Richardson and DeShawn Shead from that roster and what do you get?
Trouble, even with a magician at quarterback.
In addition to lacking talent along the offensive line, in the offensive backfield and in the receiving corps, the Seahawks now lack depth on both sides of the ball. Without Russell Wilson, they’d be a bad team. With Wilson, they’re still probably kicking off a miniature rebuild. ”
Looking forward to having some of these guys eat a little crow during the 2018 season.
#28?!?
😂
Weren’t hit hard by injuries?
Hey Rob, where does Griffin figure to go in the draft given his unique situation?
I don’t know for sure but a fair estimate is R4-5
Seems reasonable. I think it’s a bit unfortunate that he’s been invited to the draft, though, if he goes in that range. Being that one guy left in the green room on day 3 can’t be very much fun.
I think the Hawks are going to be the surprise team of 2018 and be much more competitive than expected. I think JS has had a solid off season and with a good draft they are well on their way to being a legit contender again in 2019.
Behind the Colts and Ravens. Wow. Clearly we have a bleak season ahead of us. Used to be when a team had a legit QB they’d always be in with a shout. Times have changed.
But bad forecasting has not . . . 😉
Weren’t hit particularly hard by injuries? This is the problem with BR and why I don’t even bother. I mean where do you even start? Sherman, the All Pro CB and arguably the best of the last 10 years? Kam? The training camp starting LT in Fant? Carson? Wagner and KJ missing the Rams game?
What a freakin joke. One of the worst injury years of the modern Seahawks.
“weren’t hit particularly hard by injuries” is proof that the author wasn’t paying any attention at all.
I have to wonder if they meant the opposite and didn’t read their article. They “were’ hit hard by injuries.
Now Rob, I’ve got to say that was an extremely enjoyable read. One of your better articles. You built great anticipation (like Tom Clancy’s early novels) and then in epic fashion you presented the raw human elements that make Shaquem Griffen who he is. As my Spanish speaking wife says; “hacelo con ganas”.
I know I speak for “the crew” (the SDB Nation) when I say “thank you”. You are simply the best there is when it comes to our beloved Hawks. It’s no hyperbole when I say I can see you with NFL.com, ESPN, or the like.
Keep up the great work. All the best to you and your family.
Thanks man, really appreciate those words 👍🏻
Agree and the quality of Rob’s writing in superior to anything you will read on those sites by a wide margin! I am just enjoying every article while we have him 🙂
Dallas Goedert. Would be my first pick. As far as I am concerned Goedert has stardom written all over him. Goedert might be one of the tight ends that come around every 10 years.
Shaquem Griffin. Griffin would be my 2nd pick. Ken Norton and Pete Carroll wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if Schneider took. Carroll and Norton would so many ideas for Griffon that they would be up all night. You would have to go late 2nd if you wanted Griffin. Griffin is a playmaker.
3rd pick is best running back available. Hopefully someone can run, block and also an excellent receiver coming out of the backfield.
4th Pick. Luke Falk. There has been some specuIation about a QB. JS wouldn’t take Falk. Would they?
Remember. Schneider took Bruce Irvin in the 1st round. So why wouldn’t Schneider take a chance on Griffin late 2nd round.
They’re very different players though. Irvin was a 250lbs LEO. Shaquem is a 227lbs nickel rusher.
I took both this and the previous post by RW3 as ‘April Fools’ jokes…?
Unless the Hawks get a early third round pick you can forget Griffin.
Nobody knows where his stock is right now.
Early third ? I might be the minority here, but his brother went late in the 3rd with basically the same athletic profile in a much more valued position and 2 good hands. His his story unique of course it is, however I do not think he gets drafted before his brother did late in the Third. IMO
I have no idea where he’s going to get drafted. My estimate before was fourth round.
It’s also possible that his brother has increased his stock at the next level because of his good rookie season. However, I think he will go later than some of us fans are predicting. I’m thinking fifth round.
If he’s there in the fourth, drafting him is a no brainer. He’s going to change the culture of wherever he goes.
Rob’s right on this one. Anyone who watched the Peach Bowl saw a man playing out of his mind; it was almost like the other players were moving under water while Griffin was running on land. His explosiveness in the final minutes basically iced the game. One can only imagine how limiting his snap count could make him an X factor in the 4th quarter when the other team is tired. The hawks have missed Malcom Smith for years. This guy might be even better for them. The fact that his twin brother already plays for them is just a bonus. As far as criticisms of technique go, let’s remember those existed for the other Griffin too; PC can fix those. As long as they don’t pass on an even better-value player, I don’t see how picking him could be anything but a big win. Come on JS–do the obvious thing for once!
I’m wondering why he can’t play cornerback or safety?? He has a good build for it.
I think he could be our next Kam, to be honest. In the measurables available, he’s very similar. I’m just not certain how much they value height (Kam is 6’3, vs Shaquem at 6′) They have similar values at broad jump and the bench, Griffin has over 32″ arms, and he’s much faster than Kam… 4.38 vs 4.62.
Very different players IMO. Griffin very much a nickel rusher.
well good news, one the “experts” has the Hawks as the 5th worst team in football at the moment
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767052-updated-nfl-power-rankings-entering-draft-month
this is what Pete wants, instead of press reports saying how great his team is, he wants guys that are underestimated and willing to fight to prove everyone wrong.
I posted the link to that article earlier today. Definitely fuel for the fire.
opps, next time I will read with my glasses on
I liked the team better when they weren’t ranked #1. Starting at #28 is fine with me. That should put some fire in the coaches and players. The Seahawks play the same teams no matter how they are ranked!!!
Griffin has been the most likely Seahawk from the word go…. prior to the combine…. his highlights on YouTube are outstanding. He has great instincts and feel for the play in front of him. He is a special player.
Chubb is the guy who screams Seahawks to me as well. Adversity. Chip on the shoulder. Heart. Respect of defenses he faces. He has all these things I think Seattle looks for in players at the RB position.
I also think the little birdie who talked about the San Diego State DB Kelly is onto something with him. He is exactly the kind of player they like to work with, from possibly a 4/5th round pick area. Excellent value with nice upside. If anything, we know Seattle can pick CBs that are at least serviceable if not above average NFL starters.
I want to find a way to squeeze both the DTs Ford and Hill (Texas) onto the team in the draft, but the current p[ick make-up doesn’t work for me. I also think Hurst might be a darkhorse pick at DT…. but round 2 is a likely round for him to leave the board.
I’m also not totally convinced Seattle won’t go guard early….. but with limited picks in the first 3 rounds, I’m just not sure that would be the right position of draft value for the team to get maximum impact in 2018 and beyond.
“In 2017, the Seattle Seahawks were a nine-win team that ranked in the middle of the pack (14th) at Football Outsiders in DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) and weren’t hit particularly hard by injuries in what was an injury-filled season across the NFL.”
Umm, I’m sorry. Weren’t hit particularly hard with injuries??? What garbage is this? How many combined pro bowls did we lose to injury? Stupid.
apparently knowledge is not a prerequisite for becoming an expert on football analysis
The “weren’t hit particularly hard with injuries” part has a link to it. That link leads to more garbage than that article contains, which is saying something!
I forgot to mention, Griffin is going day #2, easily.
If he had 2 hands, I could see him go very early round 2……..
Where he lands….. Seahawks, Steelers and Falcons are my bet right now.
I doubt it. Third at highest. I’d put a friendly mutual Seahawks fan wager on it if you’re up for it. 🙂
I’m lobbying to have bets settled by having to eat a pickled (kippered) herring.
Geno Smith signs with LA Chargers to backup Rivers per Schefter.
I sure liked Genos college tape.
I’m glad. Don’t really see value with him for the Seahawks, only NFL experience and that’s not good enough for me personally. Draft and groom like GB and NE.
Any idea what the contract terms were?
Reports are 1 year but the $ hasn’t come through yet.
The current lack of draft capital is really a downer at the moment. We are so think a CB right now (until BMax comes back, and that’s not a guarantee, but I don’t like our corps there right now outside of Griffen, and even he has holes in his game. I was very concerned when we passed on what I thought were the two best slot corners last year in Awuzie and Jourdan Lewis, but the JS goes out and gets Coleman for peanuts. So more than one way to skin a cat, as they say. Still as mentioned earlier in the thread, corner is a problem.
Also an issue is LB. I loved the trade of KSP for DJ Alexander, but he has yet to show he can stay on the field for us. And we all saw what happened when we are down one KJ and half a BWagz against the Rams: we were cheesecloth. Outside of KJ and Wagz we are really, really shallow.
And now down Bennett and Avril? I’m glad we get Dion Jordan and Marcus Smith back but those are still big ifs. But at least they are here and if they stay healthy they can contribute. and while we have no killers inside, at least we have a few solid veterans and some up and comers in Naz and Reed. I love so many DTs in this class but it seems the one place where we have functional depth.
So here was my latest attempt at a mock on Fanspeak, using the Draft Countdown Big Board for me and multiple boards for the computer so i don’t know who’s coming off next . I utilized the possible Browns trade, then made three more trades to position the board more to my liking. There are some things I may have done differently in hindsight.
53: R2P21 – RB RONALD JONES II. He doesn’t usually drop this far, so this was an outlier. I don’t think this happens come draft time.
58: R2P26 – EDGE JOSH SWEAT. Not sure how much I like this guy but this was a good spot for him and edge players were dropping FAST.
70: R3P6 – CB ISAIAH OLIVER. Orangutan-armed and savvy, one of my favorite players in the draft.
78: R3P14 – C FRANK RAGNOW. Plug and play at guard I think, but T Geron Christian was taken two picks later. I think it may have been prudent to have ‘the next Duane Brown’ play behind The Current Duane Brown.
114: R4P14 – RB KERRYON JOHNSON. Running backs were undersold in this run of the mock, it seems. I always wanted to take multiple backs but usually wait for Akrum Wadley or John Kelly or Ryan Nall, but couldn’t pass up this value.
120: R4P20 – LB SHAQUEM GRIFFIN. Our native pick. The mock algorithm doesn’t take into account all the GMs that love this guy. I’m not sure he see’s the last half of round 3.
141: R5P4 – QB LUKE FALK. This is all me. I don’t think the Seahawks are interested, but the next Dax as far as I’m concerned.
146: R5P9 – TE DALTON SCHULTZ. Durham Smythe was actually selected before him in this mock. Weird.
156: R5P19 – LB LEON JACOBS. He has no business falling this far, he’s just not getting a lot of hype outside of Rob. A lot of big boards have him even lower. It’s silly.
196: R6P22 – DL POONA FORD. I forget who the old Raider’s DC was back in the early 90’s, but I think it was him that said this about Cortez Kennedy: “He’s like a powder keg with legs.” I have similar feelings about this guy.
226: R7P8 – EDGE JAVON ROLLAND-JONES. I don’t know how his game will translate to the NFL, but he was like Godzilla stomping through Tokyo when going through the opposing O line.
248: R7P30 – S TROY APKE. An unguided missile from the secondary. Could be a special teams headhunter and he could develop.
So I mostly like this one, despite totally wedging in players I like over what I think they’d actually do. Like Rob’s draft, it would have been nice to have found a spot for Nick Nelson, and personally I wish I found room for Equanimeous St. Brown out of ND. He’s like Tanner McEvoy but, you know, reliable.
Bottom line is that even with several extra picks via trade downs, we’re still going to have holes to patch.
Last year I struggled with the same issue with the mock draft sites. They consistently showed players available much later than they should have been and than they were drafted. The only way to fix it would be to rebuild a big board to me more realistic.
I like the Draft Countdown big board a lot. What I should do is have the computer use that board and I just use whichever, since I know who I want anyway. Didn’t think that through.
Not sure how realistic it is but I absolutely love that group of players.
If those were our draft positions, I think a lot your picks would be off the board before you picked. Can’t see RJ II lasting till #53, Sweat lasting til #58 (though there’s a chance with all his red flags), Oliver, one of the best corners in this draft, lasting till #70, maybe Ragnow lasts into the middlle of the 3rd, but no way Kerryon Johnson lasts to the middle of the 4th.
It would be nice, but I don’t think it will happen.
What running backs were taken before your first pick???
Barkley, Guice, Michel, Penny. Chubb was still there and I had to make a choice. The algorithm favored the trenches for sure. Going to try again with a different big board.
Ive got no crystal ball-I cant guess where Shaquem will go. But if Russell Wilson is The Escape Artist, Griffen is the sure enough Prince Of Pusuit! I saw stuff on that highlight reel that makes the Energizer Bunny look like an extra from Slackers!
Ha very true!! Shaquille is a heat seating missle. I wouldn’t want him chasing me down no matter who I was . . .
I’m back with more hypothetical draft situations. This time, since only the Browns and Colts can give us 2 2nd rounders this year, let’s say Denver trades 40 and 2019 2nd rounder for Earl Thomas. Then we trade down from 18 into the 30s. Specifically from 18 to 33 for 64 with Cleveland, which I’ve seen reported a while ago.
33. Ronald Jones II
40. Tim Settle
64. Braden Smith
2 beasts in the trenches and a dynamic, dangerous runner. This deep OL class pushes a really good player and imo a plug and play RG or RT, so we can continue the Dallas approach with a late 2nd. Rojo falls and completes our lightning-thunder duo (trio?) Of Carson, Rojo and Davis. Settle is a stud, I love when he times the snap and stays so low and just wrecks the whole play. The theme here is getting 3 guys who probably will have a chip on their shoulders, which insanely high ceilings and the toughness, smarts and passion we’re looking for this year. All while recouping a 2nd next year also.
I love Smith and Settle for the same reasons, but they’re on the opposite side of the ball lol. They’re both massive and keeps their pads so low, seeing them hit each other full on like that would be like 2 bulls fighting lol
Braden Smith’s 35 bench press reps at the combine would have tied Isaac Asiate for most at last year’s combine and was tied with Quenton Nelson for 2nd behind Will Hernandez’s 37.
Here’s a video of Smith benching apparently 565 3 times as a senior in high school.
https://youtu.be/b5z5_Iz7MAk
Rob, I just wanted to repeat what I say every year. I really appreciate the work you put in. Great research and analysis baked up with facts/stats. I find it amusing when reading other sites, newspapers and draft sites that really have no clue on how Seattle drafts or what they have never drafted (position) in a certain round. It’s great to read your perspective and actually see via huddle report rankings how accurate you have been. Really, great work. Thanks. .
Thanks man 👍🏻
I’d be completely fine if PC /JS just decided Griffin was it at 18 and picked him then, and figured out the rest of the draft from there. Completely.
I like Griffin but absolutley not at 18.
That’s why you’re not a GM. 😂
Meh. draftniks.
Its a better pick than Manziel in the first round was. 🙂
look, it probably won’t happen. but I would not be in the least bit upset if it did. In fact, I’d be thrilled. He’s a talented player with unique skills. And he’s shown a ton of grit. As Schneider would say, “He’s all ball”. He’d make the locker room, and the team on the field better the moment his name was read at the draft. It shows every player on the team that the philosophy of hard work and effort and grit isn’t bullshit- it’s real and here’s the payoff. Oh, and also, you drafted a productive player who has speed to burn. No other player is going to come close to that kind of impact before first kickoff. None.
One could argue taking him at 18 would actually be the smartest pick in the entire draft.
Drafting him at 18 is not going to happen and sorry it would make no sense the Hawks to do so that high. They would be spending the only pick they have in the top 100 on a guy who would not even be a starter. They have 3 starters at LB (KJ, Wags and Mingo). He is not beating either of those guys out.
So instead of trading back to get more picks or taking an impact starter to help fix the run game you are suggesting they take a special teams guy and situational pass rusher who may play 10-15 snaps a game.
Once again love the story and player but let’s get real about his draft value. Sure he has a great attitude and will help with the culture but this is professional football not college. I think he a 4-5th round pick who could sneak into the late 3rd. If I wrong and someone takes him in round #1 I will post a direct thumbs up to you on the blog. I guess we will see in a month.
One thing we both agree on is I would love to see him as a Hawk.
Hey Rob:
Thanks for the update on Malik McDowell. Your blog is one of the best around.
I kinda see Griffin as being best fit in a Telvin Smith type role, Smith was only 218lbs at his combine. And ‘only’ ran a 4.52.
So long as he’s kept clean by Jax’s outstanding front 4 he is constantly making plays for them, always around the ball, was there to sweep up the loose ball after a few strip sacks. Took a few to the house as well.
I absolutely love Griffin, and can see him developing into a 3 down player in the mold of a Telvin. If he’s still available in the 4th, have to pull the trigger.
I know he ran a 4.38, but he also ran a 4.58 or something like that his next turn. I don’t think you can expect a 4.38 runner, but his anticipation and acceleration are elite on the football field.
Have to wonder how much of that first run was pure adrenaline from being in the moment.
Doesn’t matter. It may not be something he’s capable of every time, but it is something he is capable of. And from his highlight videos, there are plays where you can see that 4.38 burst. There’s a huge difference between running a 4.38 and a 4.58, and running two 4.58s because that’s your ceiling.
If you want to get real poetic, a trade back with Atlanta in the first makes perfect sense if only to acquire the 90th pick in the draft – the very same pick that saw Seattle take Shaquill Griffin last year.
A late third is arguably a slight over draft for Shaquem (although his draft stock is really hard to read) but having twin brothers on the same team with the same pick a year removed would be a heck of a story.
I may be the only person on here that thinks this, but I’m not a draft-Griffin-at-all-cost guy. I don’t want to use a 4th round pick on an undersized, Rah-rah special teams player with a very real physical limitation. I don’t care how fast he is or how great his motor is. I see this team as having too many other holes to fill. I don’t see how the 4th round is good value for a player like Griffin. He’s fast, he plays hot…I get it. But realistically, he has limitations and I don’t see the value in the 4th. I would rather look at a TE, or Rush end project. I would take him in the 6th, where you expect to get a special teams primary player and anything more is a bonus.
Ricardo Lockette was a helluva ST guy (in his second stint with the Hawks no less) with a similar 40 time to Griffin, and was an UDFA. Would any of you taken Lockette in the 4th?
I’m with you on this. I would love to have this guy on my team, but he will be a situational player for us with very limited snaps. It only makes sense at the right price. Before he ran 4.38 at the combine, I was hoping we could pick him up as a 7th rounder or UDFA. As much as I would like to reunite the twins and have that positive give-it-all attitude in in the locker room, you also need to think about the emotional hit to your best cornerback if you have to cut his brother. This is the NFL and that day would come.
I think very few of us are saying “draft at Griffen at all cost”. If we had a third round supplemental I would use it on him because he probably wont be around for our native fourth.
How many fourth rounders have contributed much of anything to this team? If they spend a fourth on a high energy, high character guy like Griffen who can help to restore the locker room culture… Then yah, “in a heart beat”!
It seems as if JSPC became enamored with stats and potential and looked past solid football players who love the game.
Personally I wouldnt take him until pick 120. As much as he can bring to a team he does have limitations, most Rob pointed out already.
+1 that would be the ideal range and good value.
I had asked in an earlier post, and will ask again: can Griffin be trained to play cornerback or safety?? I see him fitting those roles better. Or as a fourth linebacker.
Thad a totally fair point and I agree that he’s not a draft at all costs player, but he’s a nice player. It’s the type of move that the Mariners would fall all over themselves to make. PR, great story, etc. However, they haven’t won anything in so long that it’s getting harder and harder to remember them as a winning team. The Seahawks win. They should make winning moves.
Come on old school Seahawkers……Griffin is the second coming of Rufus Porter. Porter was a 205lbs free agent linebacker who made a name for himself as a special teams demon and situational pass rusher. He had the toughness and spirit that inspired his team and the fan base. Once he bulked up and got some seasoning/coaching, he became an every down player. I think Rufus Porter is the best comp for Griffin. Draft Griffin and give him #97!
Rufus! Great comparison. It would be perfect for the Hawks to draft Griffin at 90 then give him #97.
We didn’t spend a pick on Rufus. We would definitely have to spend on on Griffin. Also, comparing weights/sizes between eras isn’t an apples to apples comparison.
I’ve thought of the Rufus comp. I think that is a solid comparison
How about Fredd Young? #50 was an absolute terror.
“I’d rather sandpaper a bobcat’s butt in a phone booth than be tackled by Fredd.”
-Bryan Millard
I really wonder if the Seahawks will decide not to draft a running back early? And maybe get a guy later like a John Kelley. I could see them really liking Carson with either Prosise or McKissic as the third down option. If Prosise and Carson could stay healthy they could be Ingram and Kamara part 2. Just a thought as I could be way off base. Im not saying I think this is going to happen but I could see it as an option.
Prosise? Warm-up-my-spot-on-the-injured-list Prosise? He’s going to have to have an All-World season this year with no down time or I see him getting shipped off to the Island of Misfit Toys.
Or McKissic as it says. Im just proposing the thought that they might not go RB early.
The 2019 draft RB class looks like Harris, Love & Gaskin, then a bunch of mostly unknowns and numerous small RB’s that are unlikely Seahawk candidates. 2019 will quite obviously be a very poor year to land a great RB if you really need one (or two), so the Seahawks had better get theirs this year.
They can’t possibly go with RW being their best and only reliable, healthy rusher again this year or he could be lost to major injury. I can’t help but flinch every time he gets hit running the ball, thinking – is
this his last play for the game/season/career.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they overload the roster with RBs. The last 2 seasons have been absolutely unacceptable in the run game, with all the injuries the Hawks have suffered. They might just overcompensate and let the cream rise to the top in competition.
I could see the Hawks viewing Prosise as an ‘any production is a bonus’ type player. But if he shows up to camp dinged up they could just cut him outright. On the other hand he could be a great change of pace player, a nice option guy for plays to line up in RB and then motion out to WR for a mismatch with a LB. A fresh pair of legs in the 4th quarter to punish a tired defense.
We’ve discussed this a few times, but you’re not fixing your running game with John Kelly. You just aren’t. He wasn’t reliable at Tennessee. And more than anything that’s what Seattle needs now. A talented, reliable running back.
Kelly as a second pick at RB, to be a third down and competition guy? Count me in. But not as the solution to the running woes. There’s simply no need to pass on the top RB’s this year just for the sake of it, with the intention of targeting Kelly later.
I dont think they will let there first two picks go by (assuming that they trade back) without drafting a running back either, but it is possible. I wouldnt be surprised if they think that most of the blame falls on the offensive line for there run game and maybe they like the guys on the roster at RB plus a 4th or 5th round addition to the back field. I hope they do address that position early but I think it is at least worth the discussion.
I disagree to be honest Greg. Usually when an animal barks, wags its tail and chews on a bone — it’s a dog. And when you look at all of the evidence here, it screams to us that Seattle is going to draft a RB in the first two rounds.
1. We know how vital the running game is to everything Pete preaches.
2. The running game in 2017 was a disaster.
3. Pete Carroll says fixing the run is the priority.
4. Chris Carson played four games in 2017, had 49 snaps in 2016 (due to injury) and missed time in 2016. Prosise is always injured. And there’s Mike Davis. That is not going to cut it.
5. This is a fantastic running back draft class in the top-50 and then there’s a significant cliff. Don’t take one early, risk missing out.
6. They’ve already made changes to the O-line by adding D.J. Fluker and changing coaches. You could also argue Duane Brown is a new addition of sorts too. They haven’t added anything at RB so far.
They certainly want to (and need to) get better at RB, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think they might be able to fix the position outside of the first two rounds. Kelly and a late round speed back combined with the possibility of Carson, Procise, James, and whatever I drafted guys the acquire would give them a deep group with upside.
We’ve gone back and forth on Kelly’s upside as an every down back before, so I won’t rehash that. But Carroll has consistently advocated having a stable of backs to rotate through. So while I think it is a certainty that they will add RB talent, I don’t think it is certain that they will feel like they must have one guy to carry the load. Outside of Lynch, Pete hasn’t had that.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. John Kelly has not been a reliable running back. Ronald Jones II has played three seasons of consistent, productive football at USC. He had 42 touchdowns and 3619 rushing yards. Kelly had 40 carries in 2015, 98 carries in 2016 and 189 in 2017 — where he averaged a pretty meagre (for college) 4.1 YPC. As the season went on he became less and less effective. In his best season, 2017, he had 778 yards. Jones II’s freshman season was more productive (987 yards, 6.5 YPC). Pick any runner — Rojo, Chubb, Kerryon, Rolls Royce, Sony, Guice, Penny — they all produced so much more and proved they could lead a proper, quality running attack.
The Seahawks need a highly talented, reliable running back. Not another guy to add to the list who is a massive unknown. And that’s what Kelly is. Another punt in the same way they’re hoping Carson can stay healthy, or Prosise, or that Mike Davis isn’t just average.
Furthermore, what happens when they sit and watch eight running backs go in the top-75 and then they’re left with the dregs, hoping that John Kelly will be there. And then he isn’t. Someone takes him off the board. What then?
You have to judge when the cliffs are at each position. What we’re proposing here is they ignore the running back cliff and put all their eggs in one basket. The John Kelly basket. Because after the top guys go, the alternatives are not great. You’ve prioritised fixing the run. You’ve watched a bunch of top RB’s leave the board. You wanted the guy who wasn’t a top runner but hey, he’s not an early pick. And then he’s not there. What then?
You’ve fought the board for the sake of fighting the board and ended up making a dogs dinner of the #1 thing you need to fix. All to avoid taking one of these RB’s early.
And I don’t think anyone is arguing Pete needs or wants one guy to carry the load. I think it’s just a case of saying if you’re going to fix the run — bloody well fix the run. Don’t fudge it.
Like they say, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck. RB is a logical conclusion, but we’ll have to wait to see what they actually do.
I don’t think kelly is the guy that they should identify as their primary draft prospect. If that’s the case they might as well address it again next year. Mickissic hasn’t proven anything. Carson hasn’t really proven anything. There is absolutely zero reason to try and get a third tier running back instead of addressing t fairly early. If they go and draft a mauling guard, great. They’ll still need to find a way to eat a running back early.
I agree but the point of the post is just to raise the question. There is no 100% certainty with anything in the draft. I hope they do address it early. It wouldnt have to be John Kelly as I was just inserting a name. I think everyone thinks its a forgone conclusion they will draft a RB very early and they probably should, but what if they dont?
Then we are probably in trouble.
They didn’t last year.
Here is my latest draft on first pick. I traded down a couple times in the first round. I wanted to get goedart on here but he was taken when my second pick came in. Same with jones 2. I almost took him at 31 but with Lamar Jackson available I said screw it. Let me know what you think. We definitely got some playmakers this draft. Russ would love it.
your score is: 22007 (GRADE: A)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 31 (N.E.): Jackson, Lamar, QB, Louisville (B)
Round 2 Pick 25 (TENN): Chubb, Nick, RB, Georgia (A)
Round 2 Pick 31 (N.E.): Sutton, Courtland, WR, Southern Methodist (A)
Round 3 Pick 25 (TENN): Bates III, Jessie, FS, Wake Forest (A-)
Round 4 Pick 20: Settle, Tim, DT, Virginia Tech (A+)
Round 5 Pick 4: Callaway, Antonio, WR, Florida (A+)
Round 5 Pick 9: Jacobs, Leon, OLB, Wisconsin (B+)
Round 5 Pick 31: Madison, Cole, OG, Washington State (A)
Round 5 Pick 32: Flowers, Dimitri, FB, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 7 Pick 8: Scott, JK, P, Alabama (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Jamerson, Natrell, FS, Wisconsin (A+)
Round 7 Pick 32: Tate, Auden, WR, Florida State (A+)
An A, yes. Probable, no.
I am not sure Russ would love a QB being taken in the 1st round.
I know PC/JS wouldn’t. A waste of draft capital, which is already at a premium this year. Draft a guy with the first pick that will likely sit all year? “I’m not convinced that will be the decision” 🙂
All year? Try 5 years, plus.
Develop and trade Russ/Lamar for couple of 1st
That would be amazing.
Thinking “way outside the box”, I like the Jackson pick. If he flashes in the preseason, think of the draft capital the Hawks could get in a trade? If Russ gets seriously hurt, they get an amazing athlete with huge upside that they could groom.
The status quo with their top picks haven’t produced many memorable players.
2010 Okung
11 Carpenter
12 Irvin
13 Michael
14 Richardson
15 Clark
16 Ifedi
17 McDowell
Not a great track record.
I’m not following your logic here 503. If I understand, you’re saying SEA haven’t had great return on their previous R1 picks under JSPC, which were all at positions of need (that’s debatable but ok). And you think the way for them to change that and get more return on their R1 pick this year is is to use it on the position of least need – QB? All just so they can trade Lamar to another team based on how he shows in the preseason?
What if he doesn’t show well in preseason? Or not well enough? Then they’ll have wasted their first pick in a crucial rebuilding draft. And how well would he have to show to get a good pick in trade for him?
Speaking of which, what do you think they could get in trade for him (based on preseason) that would be better than the 31st pick? I mean, if nobody wanted Lamar in R1 of the 2018 Draft, why would anyone give SEA a R1 pick for the next draft?
Yeah, no thanks. I think picking Lamar (or any other QB likely to be available) would be the opposite of amazing.
No point in commenting on the rest of the draft as it’s unlikely selections 4-6 will be available at those picks.
Should read picks 3-6
I think a lot of commenters have Shaquem going quite early and for good reason. But honestly he’ll go 6-7. I’m no draft expert, just believe teams take in account his “disability” at a pro level. Honestly would love to have the Hawks have him, hope I’m wrong obviously. This is a good read, https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/shaquem-griffin-ucf-nfl-draft-letter-to-general-managers
I bet he goes from R3 (due to all the hype) to R4 (where the value starts kicking in)
That would be fun too see. I heard somewhere that the Seahawks were the only team to have a one on one with him so far if my memory serves me right.
You are correct – and that was a 1:1 at the combine.
What are your guys thoughts on Josey Jewell?
Best suited as a 2 down 3-4 ILB. Struggles in space. Probable high value special teams player.
Malik, Prosise, Odi, Poole, Glowinski, Norwood, KPL, Michael, Harper, Moffit, Durham, EJ Wilson
These players were all picked by JS/PC in rounds 2-4. I highlight these mid round misses, not to pick on JS/PC, but to say I firmly believe Shaquem Griffin will easily out produce each of these players on and off the field. He’d certainly make 53 man roster, unlike Poole, Harper, Durham. I’d be elated if Griffin was sitting there at 120, and run to the podium.
At worst Griffin is a special teams demon, who can rush the passer in sub packages. I honestly don’t know what his ceiling is. What he’s doing is unprecedented. What UCF did by going from 0-12 in 2015 to 13-0 in 2017 was unprecedented. Shaquem Griffin is winning personified. My bets are on team Griffin.
He has a little honey badger in him without the drug issues.
For sure, could be more of a “Rabid Badger” . . .
Any fans of Martez Carter from Grambling?
Absolutely.
Been watching a lot of him lately.
He fits the mold of what the Seahawks have been looking at lately.
Electric with the ball in his hands.
He gained weight for pro day thinking that’s what scouts wanted to see. He needs to drop it again and get some of his speed back.
Heh, saw you had mentioned him a few days back. I actually like the extra weight. In fact, I think he could bulk up his upper body a bit more and be a wrecking machine.
His teammate Montrel Meander (S) is one to watch too.
Had himself a pretty good day at the pro day.
6-2, 215#, 75″ wingspan!!, 15 reps on the bench, 10-4 broad, 37″ vertical, and a 4.44 40 time.
He’s long, He’s fast. Reminds me a little of Deshawn Shead. Could see him as a PC project for sure.
I thought not signing Kaepernick last year, sent the wrong message to the team: He would have provided the following:
#1 Competition for Russ – If it is Always Compete then how could you leave the most important position on the field out of that.
#2 I wouldn’t have had to hear will this team or that team sign Kaepernick and is he being blackballed all year
#3 I would have liked an actual quality starting NFL QB to be in the QB room with Russ, for Russ to bounce things off of, and to light a fire under his tuckus.
Now would I have wanted Kaepernick to ever start, um no…..but I believe in an open QB competition Russ would have won, but he would have been sharpened as a result.
People keep making the same mistake on Kaepernick.
They presume he was willing to come in and be given barely any chance to start. You say open competition but it’s unrealistic. It would’ve been lip service at best and you wouldn’t commit to it if Kap played better in pre season.
I disagree Rob, it wouldn’t be lip service, I would have just expected Russ to beat him, and handily
Kaepernick would have already been at a disadvantage:
#1 Russ had already been running Bevell’s Offense since he came into the league
#2 Russ already had rapport with his WRs
#3 Kaepernick’s flaws were already well known to LOB, IE taking away one side of the field, made him one dimensional.
With all those things, how would he possibly have beat out Russell…..you can’t be afraid of competition, because you are afraid of the result
No way you’re sitting Russ and his big ‘ol contract on the bench just to play a polarizing QB who might perform marginally better in a best-case scenario
Why would you think Russ would be sitting on the Bench….again no way Kaepernick would have beat Russ
Do you think Kaepernick is better QB than Russ?
I think Russ is a Future HOF, and Kaepernick is a top 20 starter.
A top 20 starter does not beat a HOFer in open competition.
That’s the entire point. It would be lip service only
I think the point is, if Russell goes down, who do you want coming off the bench, Kaepernick or Austin Davis?
That wasn’t his point at all. He is arguing it would be a legitimate, open QB competition between Russ/Kaep. Whereas Rob has stated the “competition” to see who would start would be in name only.
Of course it would’ve been lip service. If they called it an open competition, it would’ve been a bit embarrassing to hear quite frankly.
Imagine the pre-season games. Russell Wilson would be playing considerably less snaps than Kaepernick. And Kaepernick, against backups with a heavy dose of motivation, could’ve really excelled in that scenario. He could’ve lit them up. And in no way, at all, in that scenario would they ever say ‘Kaepernick has won the competition’.
So it’d be lip service. If Kaepernick scored 20 touchdowns in pre-season and Wilson turned it over 5 times in limited snaps he wouldn’t have won the job.
Thats alot of ifs Rob, I know you don’t think pre-season games are the only part of the evaluation of who won a starting job. Coaches and players are there for every pre-season practice, and game etc, and would know who won the starting job, and it would have been Russ.
I think not signing Kaepernick hastened the end of an era, and caused conflict in the locker room.
“One such allegation was the idea that Russell Wilson gets treated differently by Seahawks coach Pete Carroll than other players on the team, and is not held as accountable for his mistakes as they are.”
Specially when Bennett and Sherman, both players gone were on record saying the following things.
“Bennett and many other players, including Seahawks teammate Richard Sherman, believe that Kaepernick has remained unsigned because of his decision not to stand for the national anthem last season, while he was with the San Francisco 49ers.
“If you look at the quarterbacks playing in the NFL right now, out of the backups, I can’t name one better than him,” Bennett said.”
Sherman:
“”People should be losing their jobs, because they are idiots. You’ve heard every excuse in the book for why [Kaepernick] doesn’t have a job, but you can see what it is. They’ve agreed not to give him a job.””
I’m not sure why you’re struggling so much with this one. My answer didn’t contain a lot of ‘ifs’ it merely presented an extreme scenario from which Kaepernick still wouldn’t win the job.
And that’s the point. If you say it’s competition and it really isn’t — it’s lip service and a waste of time.
And your point about not signing Kaepernick influencing the end of an era is, with respect, nonsense.
With respect sir, just because we are having a disagreement, and I do not agree with you, and you do not agree with me, does not mean what I am saying is nonsense or ridiculous. I did not make either of those claims directed at you.
The suggestion is nonsense though. I respect everyone who posts on here, but I’m not forced to respect everything that is opined.
The idea that Seattle’s ‘window’ was in any way cut short because they chose not to sign Colin Kaepernick is one of the silliest things I’ve read in a long time. Quite frankly, I think we’ll all be a little worse off for dwelling on that point for more than a second.
I’m calling b.s. Here and now on talk of sherman.
Sherman can or could talk any junk he wanted to about Seattle but when he talks about the kap situation only to go and sign on the First day with the very team that released him (kap) and hasn’t made any kind of offer to bring him back in any capacity…..well that’s just sherman talking out of the side of his mouth.
Or is it good to wax philosophical about about kap’s downfall and the great screw over, which btw I’m not convinced kap even wants to play…., But when it comes to one’s own self the policy is “bleep the meaning, I’ve got to attempt to show up my ex ( the seahawks/pc) and get paid where ever I can.”. Because Sherman’s a duplicitous hypocrite on this issue. He could have very easily made a public statement about how it’s high time that kap goes home to the Niners but instead he sung the praises of a guy with a third of a season as a starter being one of his ” reasons for signing. ”
Certain fans don’t want to hear it because they are living in a fantasy where every year there is a 600k qb that can take you to the superbowl. Except there’s not.
I read a lot about Wilson’s fat contract. Or needing to be pushed. the endless dissection of the minutia of overthrown passes and “not stepping up into the pocket.”. But the reality is Wilson carries this team. Not the shell of the lob. Not the invisible running game. Not sherman or Bennett two players I loved in Seattle . Not anyone. Seattle didn’t win anything until Wilson came around. And if at some point Seattle feels like building an oline and supplying pass catchers above the 54th% percentile and Wilson still struggles? Sure let’s have those conversations.
But as it stands the line is still a work in progress the team has less weapons in the air. and the running game is still a joke until further notice. So if you want to talk about pushing everything else in the team except wilson, baldwin, wagner, and wright I will gladly have that conversation but let’s never have the “kap in Seattle for 7 mil per year,” conversation again.
No way to know for sure, but if that trend continued into the regular season it wouldn’t last for long.
And Russ could use some competition. Even Brady got better once Jimmy G was around. QB rating jumped 5-10 pts. Even a GOAT needs to be pushed.
This conversation is ridiculous
competition is ridiculous? I guess Pete will have to write another draft of his book.
Fake competition is ridiculous.
Sticking by your established franchise quarterback and not creating pointless drama is not.
YES!
I have to stop you here. In now way could I imagine the probable goat looking at Jimmy g and thinking that’s what makes him step his game up. I don’t even like brady….But come on.
I don’t really even understand what your talking about. Why should the Seahawks give a rip about Kap??? He is priced out of the range for a backup. Even if they were going to pay a lot for a backup, why him when there are lots of other old backups available??? Just for the controversy??? And Rob is right – Russell Wilson will be the starter until he is injured or out of contract. There is no real point to all your if they did this and Kap did that talk.
They will probably pick up some UDFA QB this summer. Because that’s how the Seahawks fly.
I think the most important thing for us all to do right now… is talk some draft.
YES!
I don’t know why I’m bothering but lord help me…
I don’t understand how you having to hear about Kaep not being signed, or you being disappointed there’s only one actual quality starting QB on SEA’s roster sends ANY message to the team.
I get the first one – competition is good (but only if it’s genuine, otherwise it’s corrosive), but the other two?
Seriously, how does what any of us think send any message to the Seahawks?
Had some time at lunch to do a mock. I wanted to work in Kirk into the draft to see how it played out. I had a couple trade downs to pick up a few 2nd day picks and then a trade up into the 4th with some of the hawks 5th round picks.
43: R2P11
WR CHRISTIAN KIRK
TEXAS A&M
90: R3P26
RB RASHAAD PENNY
SAN DIEGO STATE
95: R3P31
DL JUSTIN JONES
NORTH CAROLINA STATE
114: R4P14
LB LEON JACOBS
WISCONSIN
120: R4P20
TE DALTON SCHULTZ
STANFORD
146: R5P9
LB SHAQUEM GRIFFIN
CENTRAL FLORIDA
168: R5P31
CB BRANDON FACYSON
VIRGINIA TECH
226: R7P8
S TROY APKE
PENN STATE
248: R7P30
RB CHASE EDMONDS
FORDHAM
Nice draft and seems fairly realistic with regards to the range players are drafted.
Solid draft.
Love all the picks except for Kirk at 43. I’d rather they select USC DE/DT Green with that one.
give me dj moore all day
Hey Rob l really enjoy the material/insight you provide on this blog. Newbie question, do you happen to have a mock draft competition?
Pretty cool and informative recap of the pro day’s thus far.
http://walterfootball.com/prodaytonypauline.php
Colin Cowherd had a great segment on Russ today about not getting the respect he deserves. Check it out:
https://www.foxsports.com/watch/the-herd-with-colin-cowherd/video/1200523843688?utm_campaign=share_buttons&utm_medium=fscom&utm_content=return_visit&utm_source=share_tw
Thanks Drew, Cowherd one of the very few national media types to consistently give kudos to Wilson and or Hawks on occasion
Also from Washington. That helps.
He’s a hawks fan so yeah I tend to agree with him haha
I think often times Cowherd comes across too much of a blowhard, but I gotta agree with a lot of his points on this one. IMO, I don’t think Russ gets near the respect he deserves.
For anybody worried about our hole at DE. We’re going to fill it in the 2019 draft. Trust the process, 2019 is gonna be a historically good DL class. I won’t be surprised if we skip DE entirely this time around. If we play this year’s and next years drafts to their strengths, we’ll be back in no time.
There’s very little reason to skip DE completely. They will almost certainly add at least one pass rusher in this class at some point. But it’s entirely possible they will not take one early with a view to it being a better DL class next year. That is true.
Yeah that was an exaggeration, I think a day 3 guy or a late FA signing maybe is more likely. Next year is the year to go all in on those pass rushers though.
Per John Clayton on DD&M, Shaquem Griffin has been invited to be at the draft. The feeling is that enough teams are expressing interest in taking him Day Two, the NFL Network is comfortable having him there.
I think this indicates at least 2 teams are looking very strongly at him in round #2……
could this be the Seattle pick? Inquiring minds want to know.
He might go on day two, it’s very possible (round three). But I think more than anything the NFL saw the huge reaction to Griffin’s combine and the positive publicity it caused and now want another slice of the action. Maybe a cynical view but we’ll see.
Your dead on and it doesn’t matter if its round 4 or 7 it will be a huge moment for the NFL maybe all sports.
Rob has this nailed publicity
It only takes one team to jump all over him(Griffin ).
That’s exactly it, Rob. If he’s drafted, it’s the feel good story of the year. If he’s snubbed on Day 2, it’s hours of drama waiting for his name to be called and tracking his disappointment (I really don’t want to watch the latter).
Looking at some others trade back scenarios, i put together this mock with a potential Earl Thomas trade on draft day. I still feel it is inevitable that Earl is going to be dealt. Jerry Jones has the draft in Dallas and wants to make a splash. Maybe this is unlikely to happen, but maybe Jones and Thomas have an agreement in place for a contract. Dallas doesn’t give up their first this year, but gives up their
second this year and first next year. Making a splash to bring home the Longhorn hero Earl Thomas.
Without the Earl trade though:
Round 1 Pick 31 (N.E.): Nick Chubb RB
Though i understand the love for Ronald Jones, he is electric, I don’t think they will pass on Chubb. Injury history brings him down a bit, but injuries can happen regardless, to anyone. You get the proven player with a chip on his shoulder and an attitude. Think he will fit greatly in the locker room and with Russell.
Round 2 Pick 31 (N.E.): Sam Hubbard EDGE
Round 4 Pick 20: Quim Griffen OLB/SS
I feel Griffen is in the perfect mold to be a Deone Buchanan/Mark Barron type Box safety. Similar to how we talked up Obi a year ago. Coverage skills might not be the greatest now, but his speed and athleticism gives him the ability to work into the role. Round 4 might be a little low for him, seems like he could go anywhere from round 2-6. He is like similiar to Bitcoins, you love him or hate him (for your team, not as a person) and his value is completely based on public perception and emotion.
Round 5 Pick 4: Quenten Meeks CB
Does he fall this far? no idea. But he is in the mold of Richard Sherman, and just feels like a guy with grit and attitude and intelligence. Same as Sherm. We get another quality CB for PC to develop.
Round 5 Pick 9: Jacobs, Leon, OLB, Wisconsin
Going the same route, does he fall this far? unknown. But another nasty “Football Player” that gives us the depth at LB with Quem we desperately need.
Round 5 Pick 31: Jaylen Samuels FB/TE
Another “Football Player”. Versatility and special teams ability sets Samuels apart. I will be sad if we don’t come out of the Draft with Samuels. He can be FB that we need, and limit our need to draft a second RB. I think PC like McKinsic as the “Kamara” type role. I personally like Carson, but don’t believe he will be able to come back. Just as Rawls couldn’t. So a back field of Chubb and McK is okay for now with Samuels in the Marcel Reece but a better blocker, role.
Round 5 Pick 32: Justin Jones DT/ Poona Ford DT
Back to back NC State. Rob has sold me on one of the State DL, Hill probably goes to early so we land on Jones maybe.
Round 7 Pick 8: JT Barrett QB
I personally don’t see Barrett falling this far. But the national media is sleeping on him, so he ends up available here possibly. He is very similar to Russell, size build, ability. People argue they wouldn’t want to go into a game relying on Barrett. Maybe not, but he can manage a game and just WINS with the best of them. Much like a young Russell. We get the back up we need without breaking the bank on a vet.
Round 7 Pick 30: Troy Apke S
Freak athlete. Can PC magic turn this kid into something down the road? Hopefully we will find out. Gives some more depth at S or a possibly convert. I hate to draft more S after last year, as i feel hill and thompson can do something.
Round 7 Pick 32: Piniero K?
This is a tough one. Do they have someone they can’t leave the draft without? do they feel they can entice undrafted P/Ks to sign?
I think your bitcoin analogy is close but not correct. I think most, if not all NFL fan bases would love to have a guy like Griffin.
The question (like bitcoin) is what will it cost? Hard to get a gauge on his value, but if he was there in the 7th round, I’m pretty sure every team would take him and every fan base would love it.
I don’t think Meeks will be there in round 5, but would love to get him. I actually like all of the guys on your list.
I don’t think JT Barett will be drafted at all. You can’t be that inconsistent, I don’t think OSU won because of him as much as in spite of him.
J. T. Barrett;
2017: 12-games, Passing: 229 of 354 for 2698-yds, 64.7-completion %, 8.3-YPA, 35-TD’s, 9-INT, and also Rushing: 149 for 732-yds, 4.91-YPC, and 10-TD’s and OSU won in spite of him? = Tough grader.
https://gifs.com/gif/2017-ohio-state-buckeyes-at-iowa-hawkeyes-in-40-minutes-4RR2gn
I remember him doing this a lot against really bad defenses. I really liked The Ohio State University, but JT’s form breaks down and he throws passes into double or triple coverage. He often put OSU out of games by compiling mistakes early on. He has had big moments of brilliance but it’s hard to not see him as Treyvone Boykin with better character.
I’m not opposed to him competing but I do think it would be rich to draft him.
QB-J. T. Barrett, Ohio St. 6-2/220
(1) 147 total TD’s (passing & rushing) is #4 in the NCAA since 1956.
(2) 104 total passing TD’s is #22 in NCAA since 1956.
(3) 2017 record 12-wins, 2-losses 2016 record 11-wins, 2-losses; 2015 record 10-wins, 1-loss; 2014 record 11-wins, 1-loss; Career: 44-wins & 6-losses.
—-> “often put OSU out of games” =????,
Well, I guess if you had bets on those 6 games that were lost, that makes the 44 wins meaningless? I’m not saying J. T. Barrett is the GOAT, but would you rather spend one of the 7-th round picks on a needed back up QB or some JAG that will most likely be cut anyway?
More Seahawks meetings;
Tony Brown, CB, Alabama (PRO)
Will Dissly, TE, Washington (COM)
Poona Ford, DT, Texas (PRI)
Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State (WOR)
Shaquem Griffin, OLB, Central Florida (COM)
Khalid Hill, FB, Michigan (PRI)
Natrell Jamerson, S, Wisconsin (PRO)
Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M (WOR)
Keith Kirkwood, WR, Temple (PRI)
Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA (PRO)
Nick Nelson, CB, Wisconsin (PRO)
Foye Oluokun, OLB, Yale (PRI)
Dante Pettis, WR, Washington (PRO)
Justin Reid, S, Stanford (PRI)
Josh Sweat, DE/3-4OLB, Florida State (PRO)
Akrum Wadley, RB, Iowa (SR)
Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse (–)
Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan
Hmm, of all the names on that list, the one I’d bank on becoming a Seahawk is Khalid Hill. The fullback position is returning to Seattle like in the glory days of our run game, and he’s the only FB to visit. He will likely be a late round pick or an UDFA, hardly anyone in the NFL uses or values fullbacks, but I’ll bet he’s on the roster to start camp.
…Lets not nickname Shaquem ‘Quim’ okay? Trust me.
More Seahawks meetings;
Tony Brown, CB, Alabama (PRO)
Will Dissly, TE, Washington (COM)
Poona Ford, DT, Texas (PRI)
Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State (WOR)
Shaquem Griffin, OLB, Central Florida (COM)
Khalid Hill, FB, Michigan (PRI)
Natrell Jamerson, S, Wisconsin (PRO)
Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M (WOR)
Keith Kirkwood, WR, Temple (PRI)
Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA (PRO)
Nick Nelson, CB, Wisconsin (PRO)
Foye Oluokun, OLB, Yale (PRI)
Dante Pettis, WR, Washington (PRO)
Justin Reid, S, Stanford (PRI)
Josh Sweat, DE/3-4OLB, Florida State (PRO)
Akrum Wadley, RB, Iowa (SR)
Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse (–)
Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan
Would you be able to post a link or reference for which round some of these players are projected to go?
Specifically which guys might land in the 4th or 5th rounds….. which Seattle currently has a decent numbers of picks to do some damage in the draft.
I like this site for that exact reason, breakdown by round of players on both offense & defense. IMO- their projections are pretty good and provide a nice visual look at position by round & I highly recommend it.
draftboardguru.com/valuedef/
draftboardguru.com/valueoff/
Another site that provides nice visual looks of positioning players in the draft is: http://thehuddlereport.com/valueboard.shtml
Really glad to see Nick Nelson on that list.
I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble, but the notion of taking Griffin before the 5th round is laughable. What position would he play on the Hawks? Safety? Probably not. He’s way undersized as an every down SAM, KJ plays Weakside Linebacker. DE? NO! He’s way too small to play DE. Nickel Linebacker? Ok sure, so who do you sit KJ or Bobby? It would be a waste of resources to roll the dice on a undersized guy with a fringe role, ie round 1-4.
Also the Hawks are already alarmingly small on defense, we need BIGGER DUDES who are multidimensional.
How big do you think Deion Jones is? I’ll save you some time: he’s listed 6’1″ 222#. He’s a pretty decent LB for the Falcons, and their scheme is pretty similar to Seattle’s.
Shaquem Griffin is listed: 6’1″ 227#. He ran a well publicized 4.38 40 at the combine. Guess how many players have run that fast at over 225# in combine history? ONE.
I’m not saying it necessarily means Seattle has to draft him or will draft him. However, whether it’s WLB, SS, core special teams, or all the above, I’m certain the Seahawks and a lot of other teams can find a spot for a player like him.
He’s listed as their starting MLB. Remind me, when in the era of LOB they carved out a special position for anyone. They Don’t! They never have more than 5DB on 3rd down, they never run a big nickel. Thinking they are is rosterbation at its best.
All I’m really saying is wtih all the holes this team has, a feel good story that does not address those needs is not what we need.
1. “the Hawks are already alarmingly small on defense”.
This is flat-out hyperbole. Name ONE position on Seattle’s defense where this is true.
2. “they never run a big nickel”.
Who said anything about a big nickel?
3. “wtih all the holes this team has, a feel good story that does not address those needs is not what we need”.
Here are the LBs Seattle currently has under contract:
MLB Bobby Wagner (through 2019)
WLB K.J. Wright (through 2018)
SLB Barkevious Mingo (through 2019)
D.J. Alexander (through 2018)
That’s it. They normally carry 5-6 LBs on the roster. As you can see, half of the ones they have are only under contract for this season. If you don’t think Seattle is going to let K.J. test free agency after this season, then frankly, you haven’t been paying attention to what they’ve been doing this off season.
Seattle wouldn’t be “carving out a position” for a guy like Shaquem. He’s a LB, a player Pete Carroll would call “unique” because he’s fast and he plays fast. Seattle needs LBs; no need to church it up. Whether you like him or not, dismissing the possibility of drafting him in the mid rounds as “rosterbation” or just a “feel good story” might be going beyond playing devil’s advocate and approaching troll territory.
I’m with you. Griffin compared well size wise to a type that Seattle has already targeted before. Plus a I’m it convinced he would need a special role. You worry about his run stopping but if you are playing him on third downs that’s for to be way better than what the team does now.
Also, I’m sure you already know K.J. is in the last year of his contract.
You didn’t read the piece properly did you olsonc?
Thanks Kenny for the update. I see my first two picks are on the list. Dallas Goedert/Shaquem Griffin. BTW: Tony RB on this list Is Akrum Wadley from Iowa. The only edge rusher in this group is Josh Sweat. I also see Kolton Miller from U.C.L.A.
I just listened to this – comments from “the herd” on impact Russell Wilson on Seahawks.
Speaks to how the media and fans are obsessed with “wrong/ distractive” parts of the franchise. Makes case = RW3 is the real ROCK of the franchise (not PC, not LOB, not Beastmode) Goes on to say he is not given enough credit- from the Hawks. Makes some very powerful points backed up by stats on how AMAZING Russ is especially given no running game and an atrocious OLine.. Worth a listen. Russ is definition of grit!
Thank goodness for Russ – let’s get him and Oline and a running game and maybe a dual threat TE as well!
https://www.foxsports.com/watch/the-herd-with-colin-cowherd/video/1200523843688
Austin Corbett
Heard it live this morning. Spot on. I wish PC and JS realized that last year and made these changes. Will always be competitive with him and he can take over a game.
The man’s a magician. I don’t know how he’s stayed off the IR behind that line for 2 years. And grit? Grit is getting injured twice in the first three games of 2016, hobbling around behind a porous, almost non-existent line, not missing a game, and putting your team into the playoffs.
Wednesday is L.S.U.’s pro day. All eyes will be on Arden Key. At the combine Key failed to run a 40 time. Everyone will be anxious to check out his performance.
This will be a very interesting pro day for John Schneider & Co. In addition to Arden Key you have Derrius Guice, Tony Weathersby, Will Kapp, Kevin Tolliver II and Donte Jackson. Make no mistake all eyes will be squarely on Arden Key.
The Seahawks took Arden Key last year. He just happened to be called Malik McDowell. They won’t make that mistake again.
I sincerely hope that you are correct, sir.
John Schneider said ‘all football’ too many times the other day. There will be a strict plan this year. And guys like Key will not be part of it.
I get the enthusiasm for him but personally I’d rather the team look at in order
Bj hill…..who I think will contribute both in th midlle /inside, will help out the outside edge rushers and plays with an “all football,” passion for the game.
sweat who like him or not played very well when most players would have washed right out.
Settle. another inside presence but he plays like he loves the game and his tfl’s, etc, can not be disputed.
Tim Settle’s combine was so disappointing.
5.37 40 – 2nd worst at the combine
23.5 VJ – Worst
96′ Broad Jump = 2nd worst
7.95 3 cone – 3rd worst
4.83 20 yd shuttle – 2nd worst
*compared to other DL’s who participated in the combine
He did better at his pro day. Still not great numbers, but his game tape speaks for itself. I wouldn’t hesitate to take him in R2.
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Bolt/Virginia-Tech-defensive-tackle-Tim-Settle-improves-his-testing-numbers-at-Pro-Day-116234605
I remember seeing Sequem Griffin last game the bowl game against Auburn he had the game of anybody on that field that day..
I wa watching the game against Auburn and thinking his energy is UN matched he was in the back field all game I was mega impressed .it was the first time I was able to watch him play I was very impressed
The question for me on Key, is he “all football”? My fear is another Malik McDowell. Can someone talk me down from the ledge on this one?
He’s another McDowell
The burning question is: how fast can he drive an ATV???
Too soon?!
Rim shot.
Screw this “do you like men” type questions prospects get asked…
First question of every interview this team has with a prospect: “Have you ever, or do you ever intend on riding an ATV” if they answer yes take them off the board immediately.
That’d be funny if it wasn’t true.
Oh what the hell, it’s funny anyway.
We spend so long studying draft prospects and watching these workouts it almost feels like the US presidential campaigns… way too long. By the time this comes I will have changed my mind on what we should prioritize most 2-7 times. I’ve been stead-fast in one desire, however. We need a talent upgrade at running back, and we need a DL talent infusion. So I have to balance getting a back with how long we can actually wait to grab one that suits our needs best. Maybe it’s a moot point, but I would have a difficult time passing on say a Tayven Bryan, Marcus Davenport, or even a Tim Settle. Bryan intruigues me a lot with his scheme diversity and ability to play inside or a 5 technique outside. Davenport may not fall that far, but he’s going to be a really good piece to a great defense in year 2-3. The Earl trade talk doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, which is usually when something happens. If it does, there’s your draft capital. If they can pull this off, perhaps they can start to erase last year’s really underwhelming offseason. My favorite, (realistic), prospects for Seattle would be, in no particular order:
Jones
Chubb
Johnson
Davenport
Bryan
Hernandez
Wynn
Price
Settle
If they can snag two of these guys they’ve done a decent job. I seriously can’t wait anymore.
It’s an interesting way to look at it. Rather than positioning would !and a good draft in your eyes.
I’ll add for me: (with anyone on your list)
Bj hill
Frank ragnow
Braden Smith
I left out Hill. I’ve been talking about him as well.
I understand where you’re coming from drewdawg11. I love defense too, but look at it this way, if you’re seeing a lot of your defensive favorites during the game, it’s because your offense isn’t controlling the ball or time of possession, and the Hawks are likely losing the game. A good to great running game keeps those guys off the field and fresh when they do play, and then they can play downhill.
Yeah, we can do both, though. Rob has pointed out that they might not want to go OL until they figure out who they want to keep. If that’s the case they have to get a back but aside from that, gotta go DL if it’s there, I believe.
Rob: I didn’t say the Hawks would take Keys. I just said all eyes would be on Keys. For me personally I will be interested in his 40 time.
Well, you said it’d be interesting for Seattle and they’d be looking at Key. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s off their board.
Rob: I agree there is a good chance that Key is off of the Seahawk board. But I wouldn’t say 100%. However, Schneider has had a history of rolling the dice. Sometimes it pays off. But sometimes he gets burnt. Just like in the McDowell case. It seems like every year the Seahawks surprises me. I see that the Seahawks have some interest in Josh Sweat.
I think we can say with some certainty they won’t take a risk on Arden Key this year. Like I said, too similar to McDowell.
Unfortunately, they keep taking Malik McDowell (if Percy Harvin taught us anything). I’m sure they’ll pass on the McDowell types this year, but they’ll be fair game again in the 2019 draft. Sadly.
It’s funny that Harvin can literally choke a college coach, tell his first NFL coach he’ll kill him, and then not even get along with Leslie Frazier (one of the nicest people to walk the earth)… and yet somehow they think they can “save” these guys.
McDowell is fresh in their memory right now, but they’ll eventually make the same mistakes. Lets hope they can revert back to their early successful drafts before they start wasting high picks on character risks. Again.
Still bitter about passing on my man crush last year (TJ Watt). Who checks off every supposed box, btw.
Got to say I have you grief about watt and thought some of the talk was getting overboard from fans in this blog but he sure as hell would have been a better pick.
Completely agree with you about the “McDowell” types JS seems to have a man crush on. Realize there can be a high upside, but doesn’t seem like the risk is worth the reward. Especially not with high picks (Rd 1-3). Seems like the top teams routinely hit on their top draft picks, and also find diamonds in the rough at times in the lower rounds. That’s primarily how the 2010-2017 Hawks were built.
Here’s to hoping Malik is able to play this year, and that he has an insanely large chip on his shoulder after reading months of terrible press about himself. Another draft failure on our team, Dion Jordan, seems to have found his inspiration and motivation after several years of poor production.
Kemoko Turay vs Will Dissly = 👌
Anybody watched the tape of Allen Lazard WR Iowa State? The kid is definitely worth a watch. Would love to see this kid play in Seattle!
Probably my favorite receiver in this class.
I hadn’t seen much until towards the end of season. Caught up quickly though.
He’s big. He catches nicely with his hands. He’s reliable. He can jump out of the building.
He won’t do much for you after he catches it, but I think he would be a great fit with all the speedy guys Seattle has now.
He also benefited from playing in the Big12 with limited defense.
He could be a good replacement for Graham in the redzone, 21 tds is no joke, more TDs than Josh Allen threw and only 4 running backs matched that on the ground. Would love to see an in depth breakdown of his game.
For those of you who remember Michael Boulware… That’s Shaq Griffin (to a degree). From what Rob wrote, I vividly remember Boulware his rookie year. Remember him as their nickel backer? He was a stud. Then they tried playing him at SS. He wasn’t bad, but that wasn’t his niche (full time starter).
Boulware was a difference maker as a situational player. Griffin could/would be that, too. As a full time starter… well…???
Are there differences with Boulware and Griffin, oh gosh yes. Both are nickel LB type guys, but if you put Boulware anywhere – he went to strong safety – and if you put Griffin anywhere – he could go to situational pass rusher. Big difference. Yet the similarities are there, too.
The crazy part with Griffin is that if I could compare him to any pro ever it would be Derrick Brooks. Seriously, how many LBs can you think of who can fly like Griffin/Brooks? There’s an obvious difference with those guys (the hand) but the similarities are unbelievable everywhere else (great people, smart, care about football, fast/quick for a LB, etc.). IMO, Griffin is a WILL like Brooks was… it’s just that his rookie year he might be a Boulware, but if KJ leaves after the year… then WILL is open (and they’d have a better idea if he’d be a 3-down guy).
I remember him. FSU linebacker with incredible combine numbers – super fast. The big knock on him from the scouts was he shied away from contact – which turned out to be true. So we switched him to safety. He was done as a Seahawk in 3 years, and out of the league in four.
I don’t think Griffin is afraid of contact, so maybe compare him to someone other than Boulware.
Once they switched him he was repeatedly burnt in coverage.
Reminds me more of Honey Badger. Not the biggest guy out there but has a nose for plays and a heart that burns for football that outstrips any seeming physical disadvantage.
I happen to have a Michael Boulware jersey. He was one of my favorite players growing up, don’t ask me why. I’ll never forget his INT in Superbowl XL and didn’t he also block a FG against IND at home? The game Alexander broke the TD record? Man, I loved him. Always wondered what his SPARQ score would be and what kind of things Pete would do with him if he was on the team today.
Griffin is a play maker.
Was looking at some Damien Harris film earlier. Wish he had come out this year.
What do you think the Seahawks will do at kicker? Right now we only have Jason Myers, and that is not making me feel good.. Nick Folk is out there, but I really dont want him. Sebastian Janikowski is out there, but he is like 85 years old and coming of IR. Patrick Murray helped the hopeless Tampa kicking game last year after Folk choked, but Murray has had some serious knee injuries. Connor Barth, Mike Nugent, Nick Novak.. There are not many exciting and healthy kickers that are free agents.
Is there anybody in this draft class worth drafting? I kinda like Eddy Pineiro..