Who you don’t want to lose matters
Clearly competition is important — in camp and in the games. It’s the foundation of Pete Carroll’s setup. That doesn’t mean you give up on players after one summer, however, if they’re outperformed by other players in certain environments.
Greg Jennings is a good example here. He was fairly anonymous against the Broncos despite playing more snaps (57%) than Jazz Ferguson (51%) and John Ursua (48%). Jennings received two targets in the game and failed to make a reception. Ferguson caught all of his four targets and managed 57-yards and a touchdown. Ursua had two targets with one leading to a 23-yard reception.
Based on the evidence of that game it’s hard to make a case for Jennings over Ferguson and Ursua. It’s a big call to give up on a player after one summer though. They clearly liked Jennings. He looked exactly like a Seahawks receiver at West Virginia and was a predictable target during draft season.
If they cut him in a few weeks time — he’ll be gone. Another team will claim him. He will not make it to Seattle’s practise squad. Last time they cut a high pick after one camp, Chris Harper was picked up immediately by the 49ers in 2013.
If they cut Ferguson or Ursua — they too could be claimed by other teams. However, one was an UDFA with character concerns in college and the other a seventh rounder. Jennings will get claimed. There’s at least a question mark about Ferguson and Ursua.
Competing isn’t limited to the players on the field. It extends to the front office. You have to find ways to keep the guys you want. The Seahawks will gather intel on various players to make key decisions on who may or may not make it to the practise squad. They’ll protect the ones they don’t want to lose.
Not everything is going to be decided in the pre-season in terms of who makes it and who doesn’t.
The Seahawks tend to stash players
Kristjan Sokoli, Benson Mayowa, George Fant. We can all recall players Seattle has protected as a sort of ‘redshirt’ prospect.
Even when the roster was at its most competitive — there was often room for a stash.
It’s important to remember that when working out what might happen with the team this year.
Again the aspect of wanting to ‘protect’ certain players comes into play. Team building isn’t simply about the here and now. It’s about the future too.
Would it be a massive surprise if they kept, for example, seven receivers? It’s more than they have in the past but if Jazz Ferguson and John Ursua continue to play well and are deemed unlikely to make the practise squad — are you ready to risk losing one? If they don’t want to give up on Jennings or roll the dice on Ferguson or Ursua, then stashing them isn’t improbable.
You can make the same case for the defensive backs too. The starting cornerbacks are set and the safety position is coming along. It’s not improbable they’ll end up stashing Ugo Amadi while starting Kalen Reed at nickel and retaining Neiko Thorpe for his special teams value and Deshawn Shead for his versatility and experience.
A lot of roster projections are compiled to try and max out impact and value at each position. There does have to be some long term thinking too plus some appreciation of roles. There will be certain players the Seahawks have scouted and coached who they really like — they just haven’t quite had a pre-season impact so far. Or they’ll have a specific, less attractive role (eg special teams). There will be room for at least one stash on this roster for a player they want to give more time to develop.
It also helps when you’ve got players who can play various positions. Seattle has tight ends who can take snaps at full back, they have safety’s who operate in the nickel and they have a tackle/tight end hybrid. When you have multi-role individuals, it can help create room to keep certain players at other positions. The Seahawks do have that luxury.
Veterans matter
I’ve read numerous suggestions about the futures of Jaron Brown, David Moore and Neiko Thorpe. Even if young players are performing in pre-season — you still need your veterans.
This is especially important at receiver. Chemistry with the quarterback, understanding of the offense and proven production matters. Brown and Moore have this and the Seahawks appear set to expand their roles this year. They are locks to make the roster and are under no serious threat from the younger group.
Thorpe is the special teams captain and is much loved by the coaches and players. This also matters. Pete Carroll is putting more emphasis than ever on improved special teams play this year. Thorpe is essentially a special teams dynamo first and foremost and the cornerback depth is a bonus. Outsiders may question the usefulness of that but it’s not a doubt in Carroll’s mind and it’s why Thorpe has been a mainstay for so long. I wouldn’t bet against that being the case again in 2019.
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Thanks for this Rob, a much needed mental framing for the next few weeks!
Agreed. Thanks Rob!
Another guy who plays multiple roles is Akeem King. He could alleviate the loss of Kalan Reed if Ugo needs some time. King and Amadi could be NCB 1 and 2 while King is also RCB 2
Our CB depth isnt great, but it’s really cool imo how King and Thorpe provide so much in other areas.
Carroll specifically name-checked Reed as so far having led the way for the nickel spot. Considering King came into camp as the apparent frontrunner, I think it’s safe to say Reed has jumped above him and right now is more likely to make it.
Matty called it before:
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/3/19/18270399/seattle-seahawks-kalan-reed-nickel-cornerback-mr-irrelevant-breakdown-projection-pete-carroll-all-22
Brilliantly put. I have nothing to add except Go Hawks!
I would tend to agree with you on these points Rob. Also worth a note that there will be more injuries between now and the end of the month that will affect the positional depth.
I’m probably ‘frustrated’ to have a surplus of WR talent and clear needs at DL. It’s hard to look back at the draft and suggest it was wrong to take DK/Jennings/Ursua. I know PCJS love competition, but it sure would be nice to have another solid body on DL without the ‘expense’ of cutting a decent WR.
On the other end of the coin, do they leave room for a veteran signing at position of need? They have cap room and there will be decent players cut.
I just don’t know who they could’ve taken at the DL instead. The pass rushers flew off the board very early.
I’m not sure on a veteran addition. I think it’s more likely they work some minor trades to add players they want on other teams or sign a couple of cut players from elsewhere.
Exactly. I’m not even sure they would prefer Tillery over Collier or Hill over DK either at this point. They had to play the hand they were dealt. Also can’t predict injuries/suspensions.
Hopefully we can see some of the depth pieces used with 1st stringers the next couple games to see how they stack up against better talent.
I’ll bet that over the first few weeks of the regular season they will rotate a lot of the current receivers between the 53, PS and sitting at home by the phone. We’ll likely lose a couple. A lot of the receivers I’ve seen in preseason games have been pretty unexciting. The league knows we tend to have depth.
I can actually see Moore (who I’ve been intrigued by since seeing his vids from college) could be gone – at least at first, even knowing that he could be picked up on waivers shortly. He’s very good but I don’t think Russel trusts him like he does Brown. I think stylistically and size-wise they are pretty similar. If we didn’t have so many good ones of different size/styles. Jennings/Brown/Moore have a lot of physical qualities in common. I doubt if we keep all three of them – even on the outside if we opt to retain 7 receivers.
I’m betting that Jazz takes one of the spots for those three guys. And Russel loves him some Ursua. I’ll bet he spends a lot of time on the 53.
I know Rob contends that Tyler Lockett will spend time in the slot. And of course Pete has mentioned it. But he’s too important and too small to take a lot of high velocity direct hits in that position. Ursua has a lot to prove and seem to be both smart and fearless.
I can see both Moore and Jennings not spending a lot of time on the 53 this year. Even at the chance of losing them.
Lets’ see what Malik Turner can do in the next couple games. He’s in that 6’2″, over 200 group also.
Some guys we all like will be gone… I don’t think Jazz will be one of those left out in the dark. He’s big, strong and talented. Pete really likes that and we haven’t had enough of those the past decade. I know he’s not a special teams player but lots of other guys will be. They however don’t tend to be big and strong like Jazz.
.
Moore isn’t going anywhere. I’m going to keep saying this.
I don’t think everyone truly understands how vital it is to have chemistry and experience at receiver. They are NOT going to go into the season with Lockett, Brown and a bunch of rookies. I don’t see any real evidence either that Russell doesn’t trust him. He threw a deep ball to him on 4th down vs the Panthers (and it was caught for a game-changing touchdown). If that isn’t trust I don’t know what is.
Aside from this, Carroll stated clearly he sees Moore as ‘the guy’ to potentially take over the kick return duties from Lockett. He named him as the player he’s most excited to see get an opportunity to earn that job.
Moore is a cast-iron lock to make the 53 man roster.
Jazz Ferguson had a nice game vs Denver and hopefully that continues. He might make the team. But if they feel confident to get him on the PS and protect him when they need to, they’ll do it.
Hey Rob, I would respectfully disagree regarding Moore. He flashed a little bit last season but ultimately was inconsistent (especially late last season when it counted the most) and his numbers were meh (26 rec, 445 yards, 5TD) I do agree Brown is a lock due to having the second most production of any WR on the team, but i think Moore will be truly competing with all the rookies for a roster spot, I don’t think he’s a lock. True locks imo are Lockett, Brown, Metcalf, Jennings…competition for all other spots
Factor in that Moore has already beaten out other players for a spot on this team and it was his first year playing as a 7th round rookie.
Not sure why everybody is always so keen to cut promising talent in favor of the unknowns at the bottom of the roster. Case of grass is greener, eh?
There was an article last year about the lack of targets Moore received over the last several games. I believe that’s where the “Russell doesn’t trust him” rumor comes from. If Russell doesn’t trust him then he’s gone but I suspect there’s more to the story. Moore truly did need a lot of work on his technique but from all reports that has been accomplished. Then there was his kickoff return… zowee!
Ya I never stated that we should cut him for rookies, I only stated that he wasn’t a lock and will be competing against the other rookies. Way to put words in my mouth that I never said bub.
‘I didn’t say we should cut him for rookies, but a rookie could take his spot and we would cut him’
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you?
He disappeared at the end of the season but before that everyone was raving about his potential.
I think we sometimes underplay how hard it is to get to an NFL level at WR. The majority don’t make much noise until year 3-4, and 2017 was a redshirt year for Moore, he didn’t see any real action until 2018. Which makes the fact that those “meh” numbers you cited were better than Golden Tate’s first or second season all the more impressive.
If Jennings is a lock than PC pretty much lies with “always compete” philosophy. He is not a 1st round pick, he isn’t even a top3 round pick. He’s a 4th rounder who proved nothing.
I also think Ferguson will be this year’s Kasen Williams. Ursua is far from penciled in the 53 column.
WR1-3 are important, will catch passes, be on the field regularly.
WR4 is also important, because if one of the top3 WRs is injured he needs to take place as WR3.
WR5 is not that important, he needs to be able to either play multiple positions or be a good special teams player.
WR6 is 99% a special team player and must have some special role
So…
Lockett (outside and slot), Brown (outside), DK (outside)
WR4 needs to be able to play both WR categories. It’s pretty likely it’s gonna be Moore. He can add ST value and positional value too.
And most likely DK won’t even be a WR3, I even doubt he’ll be WR4.
So let’s put Moore as WR3.
Brown outside WR, Moore and Lockett can switch between out and slot.
There’ll be a depth battle between DK and Reynolds in my opinion for WR4 and WR5.
DK can play coverage ST and Reynolds can play as a returner. Both have ST upside and potential as WR.
Reynolds is primarily a slot guy while DK is an outside WR.
Reynolds have more experience and DK has higher ceiling.
Why Reynolds and not Ursua or Ferguson as WR5? Ferguson has less ST upside and no NFL game experience and no long-time chemistry with Russ. They can also be PS prospects. Ursua has less experience and also less upside and Ursua could pretty much play the same position.
Most likely 5th WR won’t have many touches as a WR in a year, so ST production is much more important for them then WR skills.
So: Lockett (s/o), Brown (o), Moore (o/s), DK (o), Reynolds (s)
With Moore, DK, Reynolds, the WR group adds enough to ST. If they’d roll with 6 WR then the last WR would be in my opinion a stash player. One who they think would get snatched by other team, could not make the PS, but they really wanna keep him because of the potential.
It’ll come down to Jennings, Ferguson, Ursua most likely.
Who’ll take the spot?
If Jennings can prove, he can catch and have a couple of preseason games like Ferguson, he’ll have it 100%
If Ferguson keeps producing like he did, he’ll have it.
If Ursua plays well and proves that he even able to play outside and he can block too, he might be taking it.
There’s still a lot of preseason left.
Jennings was the star of practice yesterday. Had several outstanding catches.
Preseason game action is not the sole determining factor in roster decisions – it’s just the one most easily seen by fans.
Indeed — pre-season isn’t everything. And we have to consider when a team spends a high-ish pick on a player they clearly like them and might not necessarily be wise in getting rid of that player after one summer. Some guys need time.
Just a nugget to add to the Moore discussion. PC said during minicamp that Moore now knows all 3 WR positions, so he’s added another feather to his cap along with taking some of the return game kicks.
The Hawks kicked Dwight Freeney to the curb to keep Moore from getting snagged by another team off the PS in 2017. They really like him.
“Chris might have the best hands on the team” PC on Carson and receivers on the backfield
Hmm…sure haven’t seen much evidence of this the past couple seasons. However, I am encouraged by a report that the RB’s are going to be more involved in the passing game this year. It would make the offense so much more dynamic if Carson, Penny, and the other RB’s saw more targets, especially via a New Orleans style screen game. I know we don’t have Kamara, but would still love to see Carson and Penny put in those types of situations.
There is both visual evidence and data that shows us Carson has good hands.
2017 7:8
2018 20:24
Some of the best hands on the team.
The running backs were more involved in the passing game in 2018
RB targets
2017 104:526 20%
2018 95:400 24%
In the same interview he said we want to take advantage of that because we hadnt passed to him or Penny enough
KS, absolutely, that’s been an area of OPP for SEA for 2-3 seasons at least. Last year we got better about Throwing to RB’s
I don’t recall what the threshold might be of too much or diminishing returns? 25%? 30% 35% 40%?
Probably a reasonable way to guess might be to look at the teams that had the top 10 offenses last year and compare?
None the less I know you’ve got to push it down the field too.
All of Davis’s targets are now available for #20 and #32. At the same time getting your best playmakers enough touches is always prudent and more passes to both would probs help.
I really expect that SEA throws the ball 20% more than we did last season. Somewhere in the 530-550 area compared to the 427 last year. Might have been only 400 with downed balls IDK?
And I expect that along with Baldwin and Davis being going creates hundreds of targets now available.
If you notice the tune being sung on so many of our playmakers is we’ve got to throw to them more this year.
I think PC and BS had a long look at themselves this off season and decided to make SLIGHT adjustments.
We just left so much on the field not throwing it to Brown, or Lockett or Carson, or Penny or McKissic more than we did they have to see that.
No doubt that PC will default to his old standby if pushed but if 2019 SEA defense can stop the run this year there is every reason to have the offense throw so much more.
Lockett 100-110 targets up from 75 or so
etc etc etc
So rather than RW3 throwing 27 times per game much closer to 33-35
What you absolutely DONT want to do is take so few risks early in the game that you’re asking your team to always come back late. That’s a poor plan.
Have we not learned from Kasen Williams? 🙂
Very true, I was thinking the same thing when reading this article. Flashing in the preseason /= certain NFL starter. The fact of the matter is all of these rookie WRs could be good or could bust and no one knows for sure what will happen. So to Robs point, they will try to keep the ones they know would get poached and let others be cut. I do think it’s extremely unlikely that they keep 7 WRs with our run heavy offense (I would say impossible), but 6 is possible if they fall in love with many of them.
I think they roll with Lockett, Moore, Brown, Metcalf, Ferguson, Jennings. Ursua to PS.
No, I think Ursua makes the roster as the backup slot receiver, unless they keep Reynolds instead.
Jennings played a lot of slot against better competition at WVU.
I suppose it depends on whether the team sees him as a slot guy or not. David Moore is smaller than I thought. Has he played in the slot? I wonder if they might go a bit long on WRs and short on TEs.
It’s either Jennings or Ferguson at WR6, or they will roll with TE4.
They were constrained last season by not having DB89 over a long stretch, and they never possessed a massive vertical target. They will keep Metcalf and Ursua as WR4 and WR5.
Barring injury it’s pretty likely that it’s Lockett, Moore, Brown, Metcalf, Jennings and one of Jazz/Ursua/Turner. I think it’s pretty likely than Jazz or Ursua make the practice squad. I’m sure that I’m in the minority here, but I think Turner has a real shot on the back end if he continues to show good gunner skills on punts. Neither Ferguson or Ursua are going to play much on teams. Both Schotty and Wilson have talked up Turner and being a good gunner is a pretty key skill to have in your back pocket as a 6th receiver.
We had thought the Seahwks pounded the Broncos in preseason game #1….
then we found out, they lost a TE to significant injury, a RB to a cracked shoulder bone and a WR(?) to some soft-tissue injury (I think)… 1 IR, 1 perhaps on PUP and 1 day to day. The RB was taken out by a hit on a swing pass from the QB… and got lit up.
So it was not our imagination that the Seahawks players were laying the “smack down” on each and every play.
**TRADE**!!!!!!
If Moore and Brown and Jennings are locks, then we can dress two conclusions:
1. Always compete is a lie.
2. The WR unit will be middling at best this year.
Both those guys might be average NFL receivers, but they are unlikely to be game changers.. we have seen enough. The likelihood either breaks out to above average is small. I’d rather their jobs were in jeopardy as opposed to cast iron locks.
Obviously my final paragraph referred to
Moore and Brown and apologies for typos and autocorrect issues..
But I agree with Rob that they are locks. As usual, Rob understands the the way PC thinks. Too much smoke for them to get cut. I am disagreeing with thinking, not the prediction.
Lock-ett is the only true 🔒. Get it?
They’ll sort themselves out. Occasionally one of our cut players goes on to have a decent career elsewhere and we wonder ‘what if?’ when injuries mount in the respective position group. A DL here, a RB or 2 there. If the player in question gets inked by KC or Baltimore then we may have missed something.
Moore is kind of an enigma. At times early in the season he looked to have the makings of a solid weapon. Somewhere in the season he kinda went Daryl Turner on us. Hoping he puts in a full season of solid play. The offense needs it. It’s a very green group.
Always compete is a lie, Duh.
The players who do the best in (preseason) games will make the team. Nope.
Those of us who watch closely can see EXACTLY where PC doesn’t apply that.
QB1 QB2
Kicker
Long Snapper
Punter IDK?
Now here’s the balance to that…
PC is an incredible talent evaluator and develops players at a high rate. He’s consistently made so many more right choices than mistakes.
But those philosophies are not 100% entirely accurate and thats OK. They mostly are and for heavens sakes.
How many games have the Seahawks come out “flat” or not ready to play in the last 10 years?
Incredibly few. And I would hazard the only games that could be argued are games on the road above 85º heat and high humidity.
He’s done an incredible job that way. We could see it even in preseason game 1 2019 our guys were playing HARD. It was nice to see.
“The players who do the best in (preseason) games will make the team. Nope. ”
You’re applying always compete to your own standard. That has never been the standard.
It’s not singly about preseason games.
Disregard. Scratch that.
I realize this may take some arrows from you guys, but worth an analysis nonetheless. I factored what I think are positional locks to work in how many roster spots remain.
Locks:
QB: Russ
RB: Carson, Penny
WR: Lockett, Brown, Moore, Metcalf
TE: Dissly, Dickson, Vannett, Hollister
T: Brown, Ifedi, Fant, Jones
G/C: Britt, Iupati, Fluker, Simmons, Haynes
DT: Poona, Woods, Mitchell
EDGE: Ansah, Collier, Green, Martin, Jefferson
LB: Wagner, Wright, Kendricks, Barton
CB: Griffen, Flowers, Thorpe
S: McDougald, Blair
ST: Dickson, Myers, Ott
These heads total 40, leaving 13 remaining. I made depth assumptions as follows:
Add:
QB (1) Paxton or Geno
RB (2) Homer and Mckissic
OL (1) Pocic or Hunt
DT (1) Mone or Meder
Now we’re down to 8 remaining among:
EDGE (1) Marsh or Mingo or Jackson or Jones
LB (2) BBK or Griffen or Calitro
DB (3) King or Reed or Amadi or Hill or Thompson or Shead or Luani or Taylor
WR (2) Jazz or Jennings or Ursua or Reynolds or Turner or Wright
Who makes this group will be defined by versatility (play multiple positions) AND special teams. Based on this criteria, I’m led to pick:
Mingo,Griffen, Calitro, King, Reed, Shead, Jennings, Reynolds
Looking back, I’d miss Hill, Ursua, Turner, Jazz, and BBK and hope they clear waivers.
Haynes might be starting season on PUP, stashing him for a number of weeks.
So you end up with both Hunt and Pocic sticking around 6 weeks at the minimum.
Kendricks is a wildcard, he might end up in jail after week #3, so you might need to have 1 extra LB just in case. If you are hedging your bets, you might end up with Calitro, Griffen and BBK on the team. I think you could sneak BBK onto the PS however.
Amadi and Shead are sticking. But who would fill that precious last position is very intriguing. I think it is down to King and TT, since both can contribute to STs.
I’ll pull for Jazz and Reynolds for WR. Both have really showed up so far in practice and/or preseason.
Dickson had an IR qualifying injury, so he might not be available for a number of weeks. Not sure they can float a roster spot for him while waiting for him to heal. If he goes to IR, then only 3 TE, then you could keep both Mingo and Marsh at DL. Of course, they could also keep the FB…..
Hopefully they show well in preseason game #2. Lots of intriguing guys after the first 35 or so guys.
Nice analysis DenverHawker, I’d say you set it up in a very reasonable and useful fashion.
My thoughts,
#1 Simmons? Eh… I’m not sure he’s a sure make. Good mauling guard but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he’s fighting vs the other 2 more versatile guys.
FWIW Britt didn’t look useful in his first 2 seasons either. It was only when he went to Center that he became an asset I’d guess.
#2 RB’s… I’m just going to trust in Pete here… not even BSchot… whatever Pete likes I like and will support.
FWIW I’m contrarian like a big dog and want Prosise’s pass catching ability but let the teams culture and competition sort that out. The hip issue he has seems to be chronic.
WR’s meh… give Bshot what he wants I guess. IDK
LB’s
I’d pretty much cut Calitro and not look back. For all of his preseason juice and good reads he was a liability in games by my admittedly useless eye test in 2018 I think the other prospects all bring something more even Shaq49
DB’s OK here is the thing… SEA has got something in the works at safety how do we have 6 that we the coaching staff at least seems to “like”?
I suspect it has EVERYTHING to do with some new defensive schemes that SEA plans on deploying more in 2019 to combat some of the high octane offenses.
Some of the stuff we did late last season vs Minn, GB, KC all huge wins for us. But we had plenty of DB’s on the field all at once.
Beyond that bit of analysis you won’t get from others until AFTER it happens I just have to let the DB’s go. I don’t know what would be for the best I have no idea.
As far as missing Ursua, Turner, Jazz, and BBK I would too. I am very confident BBK makes the team though. I have a feeling that B-Shot REALLY wants huge WR’s we’ve been aiming for them since before the season ended.
Thanks for your post Denver
Vikings are cutting Kevin McDermott..
We need to bring him in! Long Snapper isnt that huge and we have a good one, but this is one tough SOB. This dude lost the tip of his finger in a game.. AND FINISHED THE GAME. He needs to be a Hawk.
we litereally just extended our LS for 4 more years.
No you
Every year we lose a few “possibly valuable” players when the time comes to trim the roster to size. However, in many )most) cases it’s not just about who flashed during this or that pre season game. It is usually more about what the coaches see in practice day in and day out.
In many cases, players may be in a disadvantage situation when it comes to pre season games. Take Jennings for example – He did absolutely nothing in that first game and yet PC was very bullish about him afterwards. Jennings missed some time with an injury and is a bit behind with his chemistry with the QBs. When two backup QBs compete for one slot on the roster they will go where they feel more secure. Do not be surprised if Jennings does better and makes the roster when all is said and done.
Also, players on the bubble are not the pillars of the team. They are on the bubble for a reason. When the time comes to evaluate those players, their role within their groups, work ethics, veteran and leadership factors and social integration can play a bigger role than the small differential in net quality of play.
I try not to fall in love with bubble players after a great practice highlight or flashing against the backups of other teams in preseason games. It has served me well over the years.
And, last but not least, if we do have to pick between Jazz, Jennings and Ursua, Just remember that it’s Lockett, Brown, Moore and DK that will set the tone on week one….
I think this whole WR situation goes like this.
Lock Brown Moore DK Jazz Ursua
Jennings to Ir as a stash
Good point. I think there is a reasonable chance that one of (Ferguson/Ursua/Jennings) ends up on IR during preseason, which would make cuts easier.
I don’t think Jazz Ferguson clears waivers too and have legit NFL talent imo.
Seahawks should carry 6 receivers if they want to keep Jennings.
My 53 man projection:
Offense (24):
QB (2): Wilson / Smith
RB (4): Carson / Penny / Scarbrough / Homer
TE (3): Dissly / Hollister / Vannett
WR (6): Lockett / Brown / Moore / Metcalf / Jennings / Ferguson
OL (9): Britt / Brown / Ifedi / Fluker / Iupati / Fant / Pocic / Simmons / Jones
Defense (26):
DE (6): Ansah / Jefferson / Martin / Green / Collier / Marsh
DT (4): Ford / Mitchell / Woods / Mone
LB (6): Wagner / Wright / Barton / Calitro / BBK / Griffin
CB (5): Griffin / Flowers / King / Thorpe / Shead
S (5): McDougald / Thompson / Hill / Blair / Amadi
Special Teams:
LS: Ott
P: Dickson
K: Myers
Is this projection assuming Kendricks is out due to a prison sentence? Makes sense to me, but it’s also possible (if not likely) that he is able to defer a possible sentence until after the season.
Forgot about him.
I’d release Mitchell (slide Jefferson inside) and Calitro (really unfortunate release) for Kendricks and Kalan Reed.
Correction: Kalan Reed makes the roster, but I don’t know who gets released for that, probably Thorpe, Hill or Shead.
I think this situation will play itself out over the rest of the preseason. Let Jazz and the other WR get some reps with the 1’s and see what happens. Can they impress against better competition? Also, there may be an injury or two.
Another thing to think about is skill set. Jazz is a big body, but can he play ST? He’s taller than DK, but certainly not faster. Since there are similarities between Ursua and Wright, do you take a chance and cut Ursua knowing that you can probably sneak Wright on the PS? Jennings won’t make it through waivers and he’s kind of a do-it-all WR. He can line up outside, in the slot, and likely has ST value. Versatility is key with him.
Maybe an extra spot comes from Bellore? Or choose between Thompson and Hill if you keep Shead as a hybrid CB/S? Does Phil Haynes become the IR stash like Jones was last year? Lots of interesting roster decisions coming up.
Yeah Bellore seems less useful than some of the other players overall to my useless eye test.
But we ALWAYS seem to have to add a FB and Bellore has been an NFL special teams standout previously playing LB as well.
I highly disagree with Rob on the “Veterans Matter” point.
I think everyone will agree that this team isn’t primed to contend for the Super Bowl this year. Between the Jarran Reed suspension, trading Frank Clark, L.J. Collier getting hurt, and the fact that Ziggy Ansah might not make it for Week 1 (Pete is always too optimistic about injury recovery), our D-line is probably going to be pretty bad, which might expose our young secondary, who also might be worse than average. Our first six games are a hard slog, and going 3-3 was going to be hard before Collier got hurt. Now? Might be quite optimistic – we might only beat the Bengals and Cardinals! Digging out of a 2-4 hole to make the playoffs at 9-7 could be tough with how strong the NFC looks this year – I think we would need 10 wins for a wildcard.
Why then, if it looks like we might not make the playoffs, does it matter that Jaron Brown and David Moore have chemistry with Russell Wilson? We should be prioritizing contending in 2020 (where we have 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds) and 2021, and both WRs probably won’t be around for those seasons. We should be giving valuable learning/teaching snaps to Metcalf, Jennings, Ursua, and someone like Ferguson to hopefully outfit Wilson with the young weapons that he can mold into his image and compete with for the foreseeable future.
Just because we as fans quite rightly don’t expect the Seahawks to win the Super Bowl this year doesn’t mean you get rid of veterans for the sake of it.
We’ve already had the conversation on Moore and Brown and there’s no point going round in circles. But it’s a fact both will make the team and rightly so. Getting rid of every receiver Wilson has history with apart from Lockett would be a recipe for a bad passing game. And they can easily develop young receiver talent without needing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Pet peeve: opinions disguised as facts. It’s not a fact that Moore makes the team. It’s a high likelihood. 90%. That doesn’t make it a certainty. Please stop.
But it is a fact.
David Moore is one of only three receivers on the roster with proper NFL experience and chemistry with Russell Wilson. They’re not going to go into the season with just Lockett, Brown and a bunch of rookies. Receiver is a particularly difficult position to master. And having experience with the QB and the system is vital. Furthermore, Moore made some huge plays last season. They’re not going to give up on him because of a quiet end to the 2018 season.
That’s not to say he won’t have to start the season well. He’ll be competing for snaps with Jennings, Metcalf and maybe Ferguson if he makes it (or any of the others). But David Moore will be on the 53-man roster to start the season.
Weren’t you the guy stumping for the Hawks to sign Dez Bryant a couple threads down?
I think where the sentiment comes from is that although fans may not believe the Seahawks can contend, Pete’s “Win Forever” mantra will drive the ultimate decisions made. Based on my interpretation of his book and what I’ve seen since his arrival, he will not only prepare to contend in 2020 and beyond, but he will also try to win now.
When it comes to Moore / Brown – I believe Pete will keep them as he’s talked them up, it gives them a better chance of winning this year with the experience, and allows the rookies to groom without being thrown into the fire. This is also in-line with his “Always Compete” philosophy if Moore/Brown are indeed better than the rookies this year.
Not saying it’s the right thing – but it’s what aligns with Pete’s culture.
Long time reader, first time poster.
It’s probably important to note that WR is, along with RB and LB, the easiest position group to stash on the PS. Every team has it’s share of Ursua or Jennings. Although Jennings will be harder to stash as other teams will undoubtedly have had a draftable grade on him. Similar to the Chris Harper cut.
Jennings seems to be in competition with both Wright and Ursua at this stage. I find myself having a hard time not seeing Ursua as surviving the cut. He shows consistent suddenness in and out of cuts that really remind me of a young Doug Baldwin. He just looks quicker than every defender around him.
Jennings had a hard time getting onto the field early. So it’s entirely possible that at this point in TC, he’s got some dead legs. Where others that have been practicing are just now getting over that. Worth continuing to watch.
I think it’s a safe bet that Jennings doesn’t make the PS. But if he is destined to go there, that’s because Ursua and/or Wright have played well enough to make that a non issue. I expect Brown to stick with the team despite his contract simply because veteran depth at the position would be ridiculously thin if we kept DK/Ursua/Ferguson on the roster. Rookie WRs don’t generally produce well in year one. It’s a position that needs to age more than most.
I suspect we’d like to keep Jennings. But in a scenario where you have several rookie WRs showing worthy of stashing — the risk of losing him doesn’t have the same weight.
Another factor in the mix for which of the WRs make the opening day roster is how they block in the running game. That’s a big one for this team.
looong time lurker here, I normally like to just read and absorb this great site, but I am compelled to respond here …
I don’t get the hate for David Moore. He was a 7th round pick that has far outplayed his draft status, not to mention some of our higher drafted players (Darboh anyone?). His rookie year he basically did not play (mostly on the PS), so last season was really his first year on a pro roster getting pro snaps, and he performed well beyond expectations. as has been noted, it’s pretty rare for WR’s to truly begin making an impact until a couple years in, and he’s only had one year. Heck he’s even outplayed some first rounders (Kevin White anyone?) He’s done everything asked of him and has worked hard to learn to be more versatile. He’s big and fast and has good hands, has proven that he can win contested catches and does a good job of tracking and high-pointing the ball. There is no reason to cut him loose, he’s trending up and there’s no evidence that he won’t continue to do so. I just don’t get it.
I think it’s a case of flavor of the week (Jazz Ferguson) clouding some people’s perspective. I thought he did well of course, but I would still be a bit surprised if he made the final roster. I think he needs to do well against the 1s and do it consistently throughout preseason (not just one game) to make the roster. He doesn’t appear to play special teams (a lot like Kasen Williams to be honest) so he really has to shine as a WR to make this team, IMO
I remember the same talk about Golden Tate after his second year too. Personally, I think people need to chill. David Moore will be fine, could be very good even.
Agree, I think the reason why people are so sour on DM is that he had a bad November December. Low catch rate.
I think I looked at it last year and it came down to like 5 drops or something. FWIW I recall us forcing it to him in some tight coverages a few times last year that didn’t pay off.
Pro football reference can show you his splits by month.
One thing about the WR question is typically the bottom 2 or 3 WRs on the roster need to work on ST to contribute to the team. And not just on returns, on coverage squads.
I wonder though, if the Hawks feel they have enough manpower in their other position spots (CB, S, LB, RB) to “cover” the young WRs not necessarily being on the units right out of the gate.
That might be one of the factors in stashing guys on the roster.
Rob,
Excellent article as usual.
Would it make sense to go with 7 WR, at the expense of a TE? Jazz Ferguson is nearly 6′-5″ tall, and built like a TE. He could be used as a Joker card, switching between TE and WR as the situation and match up presents itself. When Ferguson is in the huddle, no one would know where he would line up. This uncertainty would create mis-matches.
I really like Jazz Ferguson and John Ursua, both have shown more promise so far in their short 1 game test. This would be a way to keep both.
I think Jazz is a pure receiver and despite his size, wouldn’t have much worth at TE.
I think they’ll keep Dickson, Dissly, Vannett and Hollister. I don’t think they’ll keep Bellore at FB and I think Fant’s ability to play tackle will enable them to protect an extra receiver if needs be. You can always find a way to keep the guys you ‘have to have’.
Rob/All
Does JR Barrett have any chance to earn the QB2 job, or is he just a fill-in camp body?
Camp body
I hope they find a way to keep Scarbrough, IMO we need more than one physical runner on the team in case of injury to Carson. I think Ferguson and Ursula would make the practice team, although I wouldn’t guarantee it. Every other team just drafted, and is facing the same existential crisis we are trying to identify who to keep. They are all exited about their draft choice as we are about ours. The absolute locks on this team withstanding, Jennings and Scarbrough are the two players I’d be most afraid to lose.
Camp body for this week only
The only “locks” are the long tenured obvious players. This team is loaded with young talent of which most are unproven, even guys like Moore who looked great but vanished.
Tough cuts are coming and it’s great because depth is no longer a problem.
Improving the special teams is huge for this team and they appear to have done just that.
So DK and LJ aren’t locks?
Jeez, Pocic is garbage. After 2 full years in the NFL and one year under Solari I have to say he’s friggin worthless. Has NO power, No Stamina, No ability to keep himself from being pushed backwards and this has been shown for 2 years prior. CUT BAIT.
The Seahawks seem to have an impressive amount of depth, which is putting many guys “on the bubble.” Of those battling for roster spots, a key factor (as Rob notes) is whether they can be waived, unclaimed, and placed on the practice squad. Based on their work thus far, I believe these guys would not clear waivers, and are not likely targets for the practice squad: Jazz Ferguson, Travis Homer, Ugo Amadi, Phil Haynes, BBK, and Jamarco Jones.
I believe the following guys would have a decent chance to be unclaimed, and therefore could be projected to the practice squad: John Ursua, Malik Turner, JD McKissic, Keenan Reynolds, Jordan Simmons, and Joey Hunt. Therefore, the 6th WR goes to Jazz, the 3rd RB to Homer, and the others being “redshirted” on the 53 man inactive list: Amadi, Haynes (if not on IR), BBK and Jamarco.
So DK and LJ aren’t locks?
Disregard, I attach this to the original thread above.