Jamal Adams isn’t practising during training camp
Let’s just be honest about this.
Jamal Adams and Duane Brown are holding out. This isn’t a ‘hold-in’ as many are saying. The new CBA rules dictate that this is the present and future of NFL hold-outs.
You attend but don’t practise.
Financially it makes no sense for players to stay at home. Instead, they will report to camp and simply refuse to train.
Adams and Brown aren’t alone. T.J. Watt is doing the same in Pittsburgh. It’ll become a common occurrence.
What we don’t know is what happens if these situations are still unresolved by week one. Are players prepared to miss games?
In the case of Brown it’s unclear what his game-plan is. He turns 36 at the end of the month. At the end of the season he will be a free agent — yet he’s unlikely to get big money at the back-end of his career.
Trent Williams agreed a deal worth $23.1m a year in San Francisco — yet he’s three years younger. The Niners are also transitioning to a quarterback on a rookie contract, making it easier to reward players like Williams.
I suspect the Seahawks are simply prepared to call his bluff. Pete Carroll has been dismissive of the situation in press conferences, hinting at a desire to give Brown’s hold-out minimal oxygen. It’s a dangerous game though. If he does indeed miss games — as he did with Houston in 2017, when he sat out half a season — then it will seriously impact Seattle’s offense.
Already Russell Wilson can sense the danger:
“I mean, not having Duane Brown out there is a pretty significant deal… He’s one of the best left tackles in the game. The guy’s—there’s no argument—is as good as it gets. There is nobody more athletic, more talented, than he is.
“Age is just a number. It looks like he’s 28, 30 out there. He’s really exceptional. So smart, physical. Understands the game. And I think people fear him, to be honest with you, when they are rushing him, playing against him.
“We definitely want to get him back out there.”
“We need him game one, that’s for sure.”
These quotes passed through the media with little fanfare but this is essentially a bit of a warning shot from Wilson, who is clearly emboldened to speak up in a year where he’s already flirted with the idea of playing elsewhere.
The issue for the Seahawks, however, is obvious. They only have $44m in effective cap space for 2022 according to Over The Cap. That doesn’t include any salary for Jamal Adams currently. It doesn’t include Quandre Diggs either — another 2022 free agent.
They have only 50 contracted players for next year and face the prospect of needing to pay D.K. Metcalf in the next off-season.
Committing extra money and years to a soon-to-be 36-year-old Brown is probably not on Seattle’s agenda, despite his clear importance to the team in 2021.
Thus, they’ll likely take a risk that he decides to start the season. It’s interesting how much they’re talking up Stone Forsythe though. That’s not to downplay how he’s performed in camp so far — but it’s perhaps indicative of an awareness that they might be facing the prospect of needing a cheaper alternative in the near future.
I wouldn’t expect a new deal to be forthcoming for Brown unless the team panics. It should be an interesting week leading into the Colts game.
With Adams the Seahawks have put themselves in a self-created mess.
The trade itself was an act of desperation. A quick reminder — a year ago their attempts to improve the defense equated to swapping Jadeveon Clowney for Benson Mayowa and Bruce Irvin and trading for Quinton Dunbar. They hadn’t added any impact players.
The extreme expense of the trade was indicative of a team doing what it took to get a deal done because they ‘had’ to have someone. Adams was available, thus he became the someone.
It was a deal concluded as camp started, despite Adams appearing to be readily available in a trade dating back to the previous trade deadline.
You have to seriously suspend reality to think a trade like this couldn’t have been concluded weeks (if not months) earlier. Can anyone say with a straight face that the Jets wouldn’t have accepted the offer at any point in the prior eight months?
It was further evidence of a reactive franchise, operating on the hoof. They waited for Clowney and when that deal drifted away — they spent a fortune on the one impact defender who happened to be available, right before camp.
As has become the norm for this team — they were reactive not pro-active, trusting too much in their own process and recruiting ability. The Seahawks haven’t had a Championship off-season since 2013 yet they speak and act like it’s an annual occurrence.
Nothing emphasises this more than the fact they didn’t have a contract ready to go for Adams when the trade was concluded. Everyone knew he had to be paid. And everyone knew by not having a deal in place, they were surrendering all leverage to the player when talks eventually happened.
Act now, worry about everything else later.
The Seahawks had already seen this play out with the Texans (Laremy Tunsil) and Rams (Jalen Ramsey). They had been warned.
As time passed, the situation worsened. Budda Baker quickly re-set the market for Adams’ position. Joey Bosa and Myles Garrett smashed records for defensive average-per-year. Ramsey earned a $20m contract. Justin Simmons was paid. And now, more recently, Fred Warner and Darius Leonard have received contracts worth around $19m a year.
It’s become virtually impossible to pay Adams what the Seahawks clearly want to pay him. They are prepared to make him the top-paid safety, that much is evident. Yet they don’t want to stretch to a Ramsey-type contract or get near the Warner/Leonard average.
Yet Adams, quite rightly, should expect to be in that range. The amount the Seahawks paid for him via trade and the nature of the contracts being dished out suggest he has every right to expect more — regardless of his 2020 performance or fit in Seattle.
Thus, a stalemate occurs. And while Carroll attempts to play the situation down and an accommodating media allows that to happen — the reality is he’s two weeks into a hold-out now and the only obvious way to get this deal done is for one party to cave.
I suspect, from Seattle’s perspective, they are hoping to smoke Adams out by just waiting. They know it’ll cost him financially to miss games and he has little freedom or choice given the protection of the franchise tag in 2022.
This all sounds fine and dandy. However, as we’ve seen with Xavien Howard, forcing a player to sign a deal he isn’t happy with isn’t a precursor to harmony. Creating resentment would be unwise. Yet it appears to be a gamble they’re willing to take.
And yes, resentment is a distinct possibility. Think of it from Adams’ perspective for a second. They traded the house for him and made a public statement that this was a franchise player. Then when it comes to talk contract, they play hardball.
Ramsey, Bosa, Garrett, Warner, Leonard and others were all paid and all re-set markets. No delay. No resentment there. Browbeating Adams into a contract with the threat of financial penalties and the franchise tag simply doesn’t feel right.
Frankly — the Seahawks made this expensive trade and should be forced to live with the salary cap consequences if they intend to keep Adams. They have a duty to make this right. If they didn’t want to pay him, they either shouldn’t have bothered with the trade or they should’ve got what they can in a trade months ago and moved on.
They didn’t do that and appear to be rejigging the defensive scheme to get the most out of his abilities. They might as well call their bear fronts ‘Adams fronts’ because the change is inspired by one player. Although why they didn’t at least try and bring in a new defensive coordinator or consultant with a lot of recent experience in the system remains a mystery.
It also remains to be seen if they can find a way to make him effective without simply needing him to blitz 8-10 times a game — or whether they have the creative chops to deliver attacking opportunities without requiring an $18m linebacker to fill the A-gap as a decoy. Remember, Bobby Wagner blitzed a staggering 100 times in 2020 — fifth most in the league. In 2018, arguably his best season in Seattle, he blitzed just 41 times.
My prediction is a deal will get done before the season starts and one way or another it’ll be painful. Either Adams will be left feeling cold about the negotiation and the delay in completion. Or the Seahawks will end up spending more than they wanted to simply to nip this in the bud.
It doesn’t feel like a plan is being executed. Once again, it feels like the Seahawks are bumbling along — trying to stick everything together on the run.
It also still seems a little off to me that they’ll be paying a safety and a linebacker as much as they are — while playing hardball with the left tackle and lining up a rag-tag bunch of defensive linemen that some people describe as a deep group and I’d describe as a unit lacking game-changing talent.
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It was refreshing to have the Olympics the last couple of weeks. It allowed anyone that likes sports to watch athletes compete for a medal and/or their country without the aspect of money involved.
Thew money thing has made my participation in pro sports a thing of the past. When I was a kid growing up in L.A. I was a huge Rams fan. I could go to the colesseum and sit in the cheap seats for $1.50 !!!!!
Now, to go to a game you will pay hundreds of dollars. For what?….For Jamal Adams ego?…He already has more money than Either myself or my wife would earn in our entire lifetimes.
Worrying about keeping all of your players from year to year over dollars is a huge turn off for me personally and I am no longer invested in the Hawks like I used to be.
It’s sad really.
I certainly enjoyed the Olympics more than I expected to. Mainly because Great Britain again punched well above their weight.
Adam Peaty is unbelievable to watch. A true master of his craft.
An absolute beast
It seems really misplaced to try and make the players out to be the bad guys for wanting more cash… given the teams are the ones making billions in profit and the league making a ridiculous amount more.
But the teams also have to operate via a fixed salary cap. And the owners make that profit because they invested their own personal fortunes in the teams.
I never quite understand the incredible issue that people have with owners who spend their wealth to run teams, benefitting from the growing worldwide popularity of the league. And in turn, the cap has risen so much in a short time, with record breaking contracts constantly happening for multi millionaire players.
Personally I think a significant portion of that issue, at least from my perspective, is because the owner makes the profit, but the professional leagues strong arm municipalities to give them shiny new stadiums on the tax dollar backs of all of us. In stone cases parking garages they net all the revenue from, etc. Plus they get tax breaks on top of us paying for them.
If they, “invested their fortune” only and not ours, perhaps the protective would be different. And in the case of a couple owners (the Browns and Marc Davis, the vast majority of the family wealth wasn’t “invested” but “acquired” due to the NFL.
Something to think about in that big picture on perspective.
They get the wealth, we pay for it whether we like and want the team or not, so yeah, in some ways we’re just like Jamal Adams being a grumpy cat if he settles for less than he wants.
Apologies on autocorrect errors, forgot I can’t edit.
You’ve got it right, methinks. I wonder how far apart they are? My guess is it’s fairly wide. There’s just no good look for PC/JS here. They have to pony-up. They must know by now they are going to have to pay him more than they evidently dreamed of.
It’s embarrassing how they’ve backed themselves into this corner. They’re playing hardball with a guy who by their own actions have given him the upper hand against themselves. It’s painful to see how out of touch with reality they seem to be.
Off Topic
From Peter King’s column today:
I think my favorite story of the week comes from Seattle safety Quandre Diggs, the former teammate of Matthew Stafford in Detroit. Diggs loves Stafford, and vice versa. Now that they’re in the same division, the NFC West, the old friends will see each other twice a season. Seems that last winter, the day that the Stafford trade to the Rams was announced, Diggs’ phone buzzed. FaceTime request from Stafford. Diggs answered it. He looked at his screen. It was Stafford and Rams coach Sean McVay, together in Cabo, calling him. Stafford said to Diggs: “Man, better back up! We’re throwing deep!”
It’s OK, Diggs definitely won’t be stranded covering the entire deep field while the strong safety is blitzing.
🤔
😡
It’s also okay because Stafford definitely doesn’t have the talent or receivers or play caller to penalize single deep zone.
This Adams situation is so disappointing because it was so obvious how it would play out from the beginning. You trade for a guy that is very vocal about his unhappiness with a lack of big contract with the Jets, and don’t remedy at trade time? Paying a lot for the guy in trade value may be poor judgment, but not dealing with the contract last year should be considered malpractice.
I know some fans may think Adams is a bad guy for holding out, but it was clear when they made the trade that the current situation is exactly what the front office was acquiring.
Yes sir. Spot on Sean
“Jet for life.”
“I’d run through a brick wall for Pete Carroll.”
His shtick is priceless.
Jamal Adams will follow the money, plain and simple, and I don’t begrudge him for one second.
What’s the likelihood that Pete & John go to Russ and say, ok, you want to reward Duane at the same time that we have to break the bank for Jamal? We need to re-work your contract to free up some cap dollars in 2022. Is that feasible?
Very, very slim.
Doubt it.
And neither should he be expected to. He’s about sixth highest paid in the league now at QB.
It’s like a giant hamster wheel. “I want what he got and more”….Yes everyone should be paid for doing a good job, but at what point is enough enough?
At some point it is simply greed, and greed is prevalent all over the world. As I stated before, these folks make more in a year than several of us combined. And they have other choices because the majority have college educations, so I don’t buy the putting his body on the line schtick.
Ultimately the costs trickle down to US. For game tickets, for TV, $30 to park your car, $12 for a stinking beer.
Enough already.
Only 30?
Genuinely curious how far away you have to park to get 30 dollar parking on game day… I feel that’s a good mile away if not more…
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/08/fmia-nfl-training-camp-tour-patrick-mahomes-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw
It was two firsts and a third, Peter.
The trade might be even more of a disaster if they DO get a deal done and get lumbered with a horrendous contract.
But his point is generally correct. And it seems people at last are willing to acknowledge how crap this situation is.
Sunk cost fallacy. The trade already was a bad decision, but that’s done now. The decision on giving him a new contract should be based purely on his future expected performance at his position relative to the money (vs. Available alternatives) and have nothing to do with what was given up in the trade. I fear the F.O. will mismanage their limited resources once again.
I must concur with my fellow Chris. All the Adams coverage I’ve seen has been neck deep in the sunk cost fallacy. You can’t let the trade compensation impact your negotiations, no matter how tempting that may be. Don’t throw good money after bad.
It’s unavoidable.
Once they paid what they did, they set the table for the contract negotiation.
I appreciate your articles, Rob. It’s get my “Homer” brain thinking more objectively. . I disagree with the last statement, though. Dunlap may be older but he showed last season he is a game changing talent. Maybe not necessarily in personal stats but the Hawks defense became a decent unit when he showed up, after starting historically bad. That’s game changing.
I think that’s quite liberal use of the term ‘game changer’. Dunlap is a good starting DE. His arrival was a big bonus because they didn’t have one of those before.
But he isn’t a game changer in the way I would describe. To me that is a status saved for the top pass rushers in the game. The Seahawks don’t have one of those and I don’t think their depth is as good as some will have you believe. If they lose Dunlap, they’re basically fielding one of the worst pass rushes in the league again.
That’s fair. But by that definition, I would say the majority of the teams don’t have a true game changing d-lineman/edge. Sometimes i think we are overly critical of the Seahawks D-line (deservedly so over the last few years Ill give you that 😁). While we look at other teams and start whining that the Cards signed JJ Watt. Who I think is good, occasionally? great at this point.
Unless you have “THAT” guy. And there aren’t many “that guys” out there. I don’t remember the 2013 defensive line having “That guy”. We had good/great players starting and good/great players coming off the bench. And I tend to give as much credit to the 2013-14 D line as I do the LOB those couple years. All of this is arguable of course, but I’m excited for this D lines depth way more than the last few years where it was a couple good starters and then some poo off the bench. The last few years I was “hoping” that … (Insert random here) was going to surprise us/breakout etc. This year I have more of a quiet confidence.
I probably should’ve phrased it better. I don’t think you have to be the elite of the elite to be a ‘game changer’ but I do think the Seahawks lack what other teams in the division have (Bosa, Donald, Jones) and I don’t think they have a good enough rotation either. To me, they are basically 32-year-old Carlos Dunlap and a rag-tag bunch of others.
Hey now, they have Aldon Smith, he was a gamechanger 5 years ago. Sure, he will probably be suspended or in jail at some point in the near future, and he’s done nothing in 5 years aside from one big against Seattle but hey, he was a gamechanger!
Had to wait an entire day for this to come true
I think that’s exactly my point. We elevate Chandler Jones as this amazing OLB/Edge when, the truth is, he had 1 sack in 5 games before his season ended in injury. Hes 31. How is he more impactful than Dunlap? And if Jones was a Seahawk would we be complaining about his decline? How they need more than a 31 year old edge returning from a serious injury?
Between Hyder, Smith, Taylor, Alton Robinson I think the Hawks will rotate talented guys and have have a great deal of team success rushing the passer.
Just my opinion. I don’t do as much research and respect your opinions as a great source of info. I think I’m just leaning towards the half full glass thing..
This def line feels deep. Similar to 2013 & 2014. Avril and Bennett weren’t considered studs at that time, otherwise they would have been signed sooner. Were not waiting, hoping they sign Ziggy(🤮) or resign Clowney to feel good this year. Its July and I’m actually excited to watch this defense play and develop.
And I can read your mind …Yes… maybe.. just maybe…I’m a little too optimistic? Lol
Would agree with both points here. I do think there it is a deep line (I know others don’t). I don’t think it is like the 2014 line at all though. That was special. Mayowa has 13 sacks in two years, Robinson flashed as a rookie, Dunlap is proven, Hyder was good last year on a SF line riddled with injury, Ford is ascending, Smith can be good when he puts it all together. Also see Rob’s point, and agree, that it lacks an elite player.
Having more DEs than will make the roster doesn’t necessarily mean you have a deep DL. Rasheem Green probably wont be on an NFL roster this year. Aldon Smith will probably be suspended. Taylor still hasn’t played a game, so is a rookie at best.
Their DT rotation is pretty thin. Poona Ford, a pretty good player, a couple young guys that could be solid rotation guys, a journeyman aging run stuffer, and a draft bust reclamation project who hasn’t stayed healthy. By no means can you argue DT is deep, so I have a hard time calling the DL as a whole, deep.
DT certainly is thinner, agreed.
Come on. I think you’re stretching it a bit to argue Chandler Jones is not an exceptional pass rusher, because of a five game stretch last year before he got hurt.
I’m super happy to have Dunlop and the deal they got him on. But Chandler Jones had 17, 13, and 19 sacks the three years before last. Dunlop has only had double digit sacks once in his career and it was back in 2015. Sacks are a terrible metric, but I don’t think anyone is taking Dunlop over Jones straight up.
The Seahawks have good depth this year on DL, but lack top end talent. This group looks nothing like 2013/2014 rotation.
Any team is impacted if they lose their top pass rusher. To say the Seahawks would be fielding the worst pass rush in the league is premature, IMO. We’ve got a bunch of new players who could change the chemistry.
Aldon Smith, Kerry Hyder, Darell Taylor…nobody knows what Nkemdiche will bring. He has high upside.
Don’t forget a more experienced Aldon Robinson and Benson Mayowa (who was even better when used in rotation)….add in a little Jamal Adams from time to time, I think this team is going to prove the doubters very, very wrong.
And I think LJ Collier is gonna have a MUCH better year…
Well, you’re certainly a man of faith.
I don’t think it’s premature. We saw what it looks like pre-Dunlap a year ago. And now they don’t have Jarran Reed.
A player we don’t even know will be eligible, a journeyman, a player who is a complete unknown at this point and a guy plucked from his couch who hasn’t played in years.
You’re not convincing me here.
Another journeyman and a fourth round rookie who had a couple of flashes a year ago.
I remember hearing all this a year ago. And when the doubters were proven right, they just got abuse.
Ha, well, I’m talking about *this* year.
Aldon was fat last year. He’s in great shape now. He could be a difference maker if eligible..
Kerry was the leading rusher at San Fran last year. Smart player.
Darell Taylor is an unknown – and that should excite us. Players describe him as explosive.
Nkemdiche is a great athlete and according to Simmons, the Seahawks are high on him. What if they can unlock his potential? He seems to understand this is his second chance.
Poona gets better every single year. He’s gonna be great.
Benson Mayowa – sure, a journeyman, but he played well last year. He’ll do even better with this group.
Aldon Robinson – second year jump? Why assume he won’t approve?
And add in Dunlap and Adams…and this could be a real party.
Time will tell, I suppose, but there are reasons for optimism, Rob!
He turns 32 this year, has played one season in Dallas after a long absence where you call him ‘fat’, plus he has legal issues that are unresolved and could lead to missed time. Sorry, but it’s hard to get excited here.
He was also playing with a top-15 pick interior rusher lined up next to Arik Armstead. In three of his five seasons, he tallied zero or one sack. Not to mention, the Niners didn’t retain him despite his modest salary. I don’t think his addition is bad at all but let’s just be honest about what he is — a journeyman who hopefully will be able to contribute.
Why should that excite us? There’s as much chance of him being a total bust at this point. He needs to get on the field and show something.
This is very forced. Nkemdiche has been plucked from nowhere. If he makes the team it’ll be a success for him (and he’s currently injured). Expecting anything here is rich.
I like Poona but I think what we saw last year is his ceiling. And that’s fine. He was very good last year. But now he doesn’t get to play next to Jarran Reed so we’ll see what happens.
He was awful when needing to play far too many snaps. If others stay healthy and he gets to be rotated properly, sure, he will contribute. But he is what he is.
I never said anything about him not improving.
I’m not going to sit here and tell anyone not to be optimistic. You’re welcome to feel how you feel ahead of a new season. But my personal opinion is you’ve got the old rose tinted specs on and anything I say, you’ll simply have an ultra positive retort, whether it’s grounded in realism or not.
Hard to say the glass is half full to someone that insists it’s half empty.
As an Engineer, I say the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Yawn.
The points I’ve made about the DL are fair even if you disagree.
This is how FG is selling it…
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/8/6/22611816/pff-defensive-line-rank-seattle-seahawks-29-2021-dunlap-hyder-robinson-taylor-sack-rush-reed-ford
This is the next stage of “La Vie en rose”, Seattle edition…
– PC has “consistently turned out young stars”, despite haven’t done so since Frank Clark
– Dunlap & Mayowa are the reiteration of Avril & Bennett
– simply ignore the lack of a decent interior rusher next to Poona Ford
– write up a bunch of second rate and rookie players as “corps of surprise playmakers”
– include Jamal Adams into the DL mix, so that we cannot debate the numbers
Done!
FG…
Is a safety who is a liability in coverage worth $20m/year? Adams had significant injuries last year. Before I broke the bank I’d need to see how he performs this year and whether he can stay healthy (and whether the scheme adjustment works). If it doesn’t, franchise him next year and trade him to an AFC loser (or if he has a bad year, let him walk and admit the mistake). He’s too empowered at the moment and his holdout is infectious (see Brown). While we’re waiting, reward Diggs with an extension (that number will only go up after Adams).
If they extend Adams, mark my word, he’ll be back holding out again in two years when others pass his number.
This is an option that’s not really an option. What you say may seem perfectly rational in theory or on paper, but we’re dealing with another reality here, one that includes personalities, coaching, management, and franchise reputation, emotional state of the team going into this year, etc, etc…
His salary is almost $10 million this year. There’s no way he doesn’t play. He’d be lucky to get $10m for this year if we cut him right now and I can’t see anyone paying $20/per in free agency after this year. If they do, great we get a 3rd the next year and admit our mistake.
***Someone will end up cutting Adams and taking a dead cap hit in a couple years***
Maybe give him $20/yr with the team option to cut him at any time with no dead cap hit. If he had to play up to his contract to keep it, it’d shut him up pretty quickly. We’ll go up to your valuation, but you have to earn it or play out this season. Ball’s in your court.
First off, I can pretty much guarantee that some team would gladly pay him a 10 million salary to play for them this year. Secondly, Adams would never sign a contract like the one you mentioned.
I have no idea how long Adams would extend his holdout if he doesn’t get a contract from us that he can live with. This is probably the most important contract of his career/life. He also has a massive ego, as do many stars of his ability possess. If he doesn’t sign an extension with us, he could easily become a real distraction to the team. We’ve already seen the drama he’s capable of creating in New York. At the very least, the emotional state of the team could take a real hit.
And as for admitting mistakes, PC doesn’t have much of a history for that. This would represent an epic failure for PC/JS and the franchise as a whole that could have a ripple effect in all sorts of ways for some time to come.
Anyway…we’ll see what happens.
Adams’ salary is guaranteed. He’d get $9.86m if the Seahawks cut him.
Adams would have zero incentive to sign that contract. That is a non-starter.
Not to be all Debbie Downer, but both of these things are absolute dumpster fires imo.
On offense, it’s a brand new system. Perfect health and a full training camp for the entire unit would still result in sluggish growing pains the first few weeks of the year. That is inevitable when completely switching up the system, tempo, blocking schemes, routes. Now the leader of the OL has missed two weeks, and it seems he will miss all of the preseason since the team apparently has no interest in dealing with this. Their depth at T is not ideal: Jones is a liability and cant stay healthy, Cedric is a fine backup, but Lord help us if he plays 16 on the left side, and a rookie who will need a year or two to develop.
Defense, as Rob alluded to, we are switching up the entire scheme for a guy that isnt even practicing, and may not even be able to stay healthy. Great plan guys.
And the cap situation moving forward looks grim. I am just not impressed at all.
With Duane Brown, he is probably looking at Trent William’s contract as the goal, but if PC/JS were to offer him an extension, it would probably be closer to what Andrew Whitworth got. (3 yr 30 million, 12.5 million guaranteed)
There’s a difference between Duane Brown and Jamal Adams, in terms of how easy we can replace them. Duane would leave a huge hole. The position that Russ took is also a sign that he will not accept losing his LT. Juding on last season’s performance, I don’t think the time has come for us to say that Duane no longer delivers. Pete seems to have finally understood the situation (today’s NFL.com article) and I would expect to have an extension worked out rather soon.
A safety is easier to replace than a LT (and we have some alternatives already available, perhaps Blair). It’s likely that John and Pete will try to keep Adams, but I doubt they will do this at any cost – after some point they will draw the line and accept that he is unreasonable with his salary expectations. Rather than keeping him around in an unhappy state (this year plus some sort of tag), I think they will seek for a trade, with my guess being we’ll get a player in return and not draft picks. I don’t think it’s too late to look for a deal.
OK apparently Pocic reaggravated his hamstring injury (@BradyHenderson). So we should trade Adams for a center 🙂
I’m in
Blessings in disguise
This is the article Mick is referring to.
https://www.nfl.com/news/pete-carroll-acknowledges-duane-brown-is-making-a-statement-about-contract-we-re
Glad to see Pete realizes without Duane it will guarantee Russ will be gone next year and without Russ this team will be below .500 (argue against that all you want, I ain’t buying). Good for Russ for forcing Pete to do something the right way because LT is a far more important position that Safety. If Pete wants any sort of positive legacy, he’s gonna have to keep Russ in Seattle. Russ knows it and is acting as such.
Freak list is up over at The Athletic. Nice to see lots of Offensive Linemen on there given our current situation.
Some guys I like:
Tyler Linderbaum
Cameron Jurgens
Ze’veyon Furcron
https://theathletic.com/2758595/2021/08/09/bruce-feldmans-2021-college-football-freaks-list?source=user-shared-article
The Pocic injury situation highlights how much of a luxury pick the D’wayne Eskridge choice was. We have far more of a need for a long-term, cheap C than we do a WR3. I’m obviously rooting for Eskridge to work out, but again, the process of Seattle and positional value has seemed just a little off.
WR3 is something that could have been filled at a very reasonable rate in free agency too.
Especially because Creed Humphrey was literally RIGHT THERE and is now starting for the Chiefs. At the very, very, very least, he would have been legitimate competition for Pocic.
All great points! I love it!
I’m not saying Jones isn’t a great pass rusher. Its more an exercise is how we tend to down play the Hawks moves and over state other teams. Jones is 31. He started off very slow and then had a biceps injury. He might already be in decline and trying to get an extension before everyone realizes it (Now that’s a reach lol).. But my argument isn’t Dunlap vs Jones. They are in different roles.
But before we dismiss the comparison to the 2013-14 teams . Who was the elite def lineman on that team?
I agree that group was fantastic… but they had to become fantastic during that season. Few people (if anyone) were talking about them being one of the top def of all time in the preseason.
The Hawks will not likely ever have a group like that again (front and back end) But that doesn’t mean Kerry Hyder cant do his best Michael Bennett impression. That doesn’t mean Taylor, who I really really liked out of college (sans the health issues) can’t be a stud. I believe he will.
Amd then throw in Dunlap, Aldon Smith, Collier, Robinson, Mayowa I’m missing someone. . Calling that unit ragtag might be accurate but I think the same could have been said about the 2013-2014 season unit. No elites and a bunch of ragtags thrown together.
Take the Rams defense. They have the best D lineman and the beat CB in the league. Both Elite players but will their defense be better than years prior? I don’t think they will this year. They lost some great surrounding talent.
If this years Hawks defense is middle of the pack from week 1 that means we go as far as Russel Wilson and Shane Waldron take us.
The defense wont be a liability. The floor and ceiling have risen.
Avril and Bennett.
I’m sorry, but I can’t take seriously the assertion that one of the deepest, most talent-laden D-lines in recent NFL history is comparable to the current Seahawks D-line. It simply isn’t.
I’m definitely with Rob on this one. The LOB was amazing for many reasons, but one of them is the QB pressure of our DLers. Just rewatch the SB48 highlights.
I have some hopes that this season we won’t look as awful as we did last year, when we were beating negative records. Far from Avril, Bennett, Mebane & co, though.
Avril and Bennett were backups on that team at the beginning and stayed backups most of that season. If they were Elite why weren’t they signed in the first wave of free agency? We look at it from a historical standpoint. And I think i might stop short of calling them elite. They weren’t JJ Watt or Aaron Donald or Von Miller etc ..
Please don’t hear what im not saying. I didnt mean to imply that this defense is the same as that defense. You’re right. They were/are an ALL TIME great defense bit we have the benefit of hindsight.
My point is that this is the best depth that we’ve had since that def. Not that they are good as that defense (or even could be). They won’t be. But this years line has the depth. They will have the benefit of staying fresh during games. They won’t have to run their starters for 70-80-90 % of the plays out of fear of losing momentum. And who is to say one or two players (like an Avril or Bennett) won’t elevate their play to approach that level. Depth allows player to excel.
I have very little time for revisionist history on Avril and Bennett.
They were two of the best pass rusher in the entire NFL in their tenure in Seattle, regardless of their free agency experience.
I highly recommend checking out Pro Football Reference’s career leaders page for TFLs. It is a who’s who of game wreckers.
Only 3 names appear on that list 7 times: Donald, Allen, and Bennett.
Bennett lead the DL in snaps in 2013 and Avril was third. They were the sack leaders on the team by a wide margin. Pretty good for backups.
They WERE great and became all time Seattle greats. I feel like the thought I’m trying to express is getting lost. The Seahawks signed them as “depth” late in free agency. They didn’t sign them expecting “elite” talent. I was stoked but I also didn’t expect how great they would play at the time.
I do think revisionist history is a little harsh. I was simply putting myself in that moment when they signed both those guys.
I personally feel those guys combined with the current starters at that time created a rotation of good & great that only improved as the season went on(and Bennett was perfect to move inside on passing downs giving him more snaps). But I believe it was at least partly because of being able to rotate so many talented palyers. Obviously i don’t think the current roster is as talented but I do think they have alot of talented depth (good players) this year with a couple guys who have potential to elevate to that great level. Im not trying to poop on anyone’s opinions. Just expressing mine. Thought thats what this venue was for…
This is the kind of revisionist history on Avril and Bennett that I really dislike.
I remember their additions like it was yesterday. I wrote articles on the pair. Signing both was not seen as ‘depth’. It was seen as the heist of the century. The perception was that the Seahawks, somehow, had managed to land two exceptional pass rushers — and two of the blue chip free agents available — on short term contracts to go for a Super Bowl.
They ended up staying far longer than their original short term deals.
But that’s the truth of the situation. Seahawks fans were pinching themselves in 2013. It was barely believable how they’d pulled it off.
Rob, respectfully, not everyone believed they were “exceptional pass rushers”. They were good players. There were alot Seahawks fans who were pinching themselves when we signed Ziggy Ansah too. If everyone thought Avril/Bennett were exceptional they wouldn’t have had to sign short term prove it contracts. Someone (all it takes is one team) would have signed them long-term. But no one did. Just like Clowney last season , because Clowney is not elite despite his draft status.
. You don’t have to like my opinion. But labeling it as revisionist history is not fair simply because I remember thinking about it differently. I don’t like all of your opinions but I still but I still respect them and the time.spent forming it.
Because I also remember my thoughts about like it was yesterday.
And in my opinion. I STILL dont believe either were Elite players. They we’re great players. Bennet is one of my favorites. .Bit calling them Elite to prove a point in 2021 feels more like revisionist history. Put Bennett in Dunlap shoes last year.or Clowneys the year before and I don’t think he fairs much better. You’d be saying the same thing. Its Bennett and a bunch of rag tags. Or Bennett great but they lack an elite guy…
Back to my original point.
Hopefully., For Seahawks fans, I’m right about this years depth and we have a top 16 defense. Or maybe I’m wrong and they muddle around the mid 20s. Either way, right now , in this moment, Im excited about this defense more than I’ve been in a few years…
Ugh. Avril had a down year at 26 WHILE ON THE FRANCHISE TAG. He was way up the two years prior in PFF stats, in particular hurries. He was one of the most underrated pass rushers in the league, despite playing out of position on a forgotten team in Detroit.
He was a big deal signing, and anyone who didn’t think so was simply misinformed or wrongly opinionated.
Ziggy is a terrible comparison as he was both old and coming off injury. Clownery was older, injury prone, and honestly didn’t have the stats Avril did. He had the potential, and that’s how he kept getting paid.
The reason they needed to sign short term was because teams hasn’t managed the cap well, so we had an opportunity to take advantage.
I can understand having a semantically argument about “great” versus “elite” but will wholesale disagree that Avril was anything other than a brilliant signing of as close to an elite pass rusher as one can get coming off franchise tag at 26 years old.
I have said and still agree with you and Rob. Avril and Bennett were great signings. I’m not arguing that they weren’t great players. Maybe I got hung up on the elite thing but that was my question. Who was elite on 2013 D-line? And I will argue that neither player was elite. They were great . That defense was ALL TIME great. They were great before Avril/Bennett and those two helped elevate the Hawks to one of the best defenses of all time.
Side point- I wasn’t comparing to the two signings (Avril/Ansah). I referenced Ansah suggesting that Seahawks fans were giddy over that deal as well. Brock Huard and Jake Heaps chest bumped ON AIR after they signed Ansah. Excitement over a signing doesn’t guarantee success. I ,as most Hawks fans, get excited when we sign good players.
My initial point (before I got sidetracked trying to defend my comments) was that this defense has good starters and good depth. With a couple players who could be great. I made a comparison to the 2013 def ONLY IN STRUCTURE ,not talent. I stated that this defense has more depth than they have had in recent years . Just like the 2013 def went from Great to ALL time great. I think this defense has the potential to go from the basement to top 16 or even better because of the depth of good players.
Somehow I got suckered in to a debate whether Avril and Bennett were Elite … 🤦😜
Them being backups is total semantics. Red Bryant played early downs due to stopping the run. That’s what made him a starter. If games started at 3rd and 10 Avril and Bennet would have been starters.
If Brown wants more than one year on an extension, which I assume he does, what about the possibility of guaranteeing his salary this year as a way to get him to play for a new contract (presumably elsewhere) while having some measure of security?
Remember when Earl was chirping about his contract and Pete kept talking up Tedric Thompson, and how he was crushing it in practice? That turned out well.
And, Rob, please remember that it was all you media types who blew up the Russ situation, so stop blowing up the Adams and Brown dumpster fire. Everything is obviously rainbows and unicorns at the VMAC.
Carroll is so out of touch with recent history that it boggles the mind.
The Earl Thomas thing did work out in Seattle’s favor, though. I didn’t think it was a good idea to be in a rush to extend him back then, I’m more than happy looking back in hindsight.
Would love it if Adams would play this year out and see where it goes like Earl did. Frankly, I am not in that group that thinks this is a given. I think there’s a chance he’s not here long-term and I won’t lose any sleep over it. It was not a trade I liked then, handing him a blank check now is not something I’m in favor of and would just make me feel worse. Blair is still an in-house option I’d be somewhat excited about.
Brown will likely get his. I think he’s just trying to get very last penny he can on this last contract. I’m glad he’s gonna want to play more, I thought he was hanging it up. There’s no in-house option I’m excited about with Brown and he knows it. I doubt the organization is sitting there thinking, nah we don’t need our LT bro. They probably don’t like the asking price right now since he arguably has even more leverage than Adams.
Brown is 36 this month.
It’s not a case of them saying they don’t need their left tackle. It’s about not committing a whole bunch of money to a player at that age, when the cap is tight from next year.
They would probably much rather go year-to-year and let him sample his market. Thus, we have Carroll trying to give Brown’s holdout as little oxygen as possible.
Dump the basketball player convert, bring in this guy I was really high on as a sleeper.
Too many injury red flags
They actually only have 46 players contracted next year Rob (4 guys on void years).
I have just purchased the team from the widow and made some moves effective immediately.
1: I cursed the Cap. “Curse you Cap, and the contract you came in!”
2: I gave Jamal three minutes to sign… Time was up… I sent a telegram to all the other teams saying offer window open for the guy with the bad shoulder and several broken fingers.
3: The best offer was from the Hamilton Tiger Cats of the CFL – we got their 1st pick in the 2022 Canadian University Football Draft. (Personally, I considered this a coup! We’ve recovered our lost 1st round pick! So their doubters!)
4: Had lunch with Brown’s agent. Not too successful – made him pick up the cheque (spell check says this is the first hint I might be a Canadian eh?). I’ve traded Brown to Florida’s Governor for an autographed picture of unvaccinated Covitiots at a Republican meeting they were holding to discuss reintroducing The Flat Earth Hypothesis to the school curriculums. I like collecting contemporary political memorabilia.
5: I hereby announce that the new left rookie tackle… I can’t remember his name, is an ideal replacement for Brown. We can afford the new guy.
6: Just got a call from Wilson’s agent. Shit. DangeRuss wants out… Not a problem just got him traded to Burnley FC for a Central/Box-to-Box Midfielder – what ever the f… that is… (Note to file: Ask Rob Staton he’ll know).
7: My work is done. Time for a scotch, single malt of course…
Can’t beat a good box to box midfielder
Good to hear that Rob. At least I know one of my moves meets with civilized approval:)
+1
It’s possible the worst move on your list is Scotch.
Nah, I take that back cuz it’s still whiskey, just not what I like. Irish please!
Protestant or Catholic whiskey?
atheist?
( I kid, I am not)
I grew up believing:
Bushmills is Protestant
Jameson is Catholic.
Turns out it’s not true, it’s an American invention. Also of note, Arthur Guinness was undoubtedly protestant and that never stopped any Irish I know from drinking it (although I must admit I’ve never been to Ireland.)
Spent six months in Ireland. Was drinking a Guinness in a club when an Irish guy came up to me and asked why I was drinking Guinness because it’s “piss.” I asked what he preferred and he lifted his cup of Budweiser and said “this is a real beer.” I about spit out my Guinness. I just shook my head and said in America we think Budweiser is piss. I guess for some people the grass is always greener on the inside and an imported beer is going to have more allure. For the record I’m not saying this one guy is representative of Irish people and I have no idea if he was catholic. Your comment just triggered this memory
Heck no! I lift last night’s Glenmorangie to your prompt conversion…
Contract drama in Sports just isnt entertaining to me. I have taken my family to lots of Mariners and Seahawks games but often feel, at least a little, remorsful. Going to one game as a family can be very very expensive. The logo wear costs more than even the most fasionable alternative. Sports journalism is absolutely filled with contract drama, so I guess other people get into it. Not me though.
I hear there’s this LB out there called KJ who’s not too shabby…
Yeah it’ll be pretty disappointing if KJ signs elsewhere for under $4m.
Still hoping for KJ, Reiter and Atkins/Short/Casey
A heads up — I’ll be on Jake & Stacy on Tuesday discussing the topics in this article
That is big news congratulations!!
Awesome. Really enjoyed your last appearance with them.
Any idea of the time slot?
Not yet but will let you know
Just heard at the start of the broadcast that Rob will be on at noon (one hour from now)
Tune in guys 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Unfortunately think i barely missed it. Tuned in at 12:12pm. Any chance can post on site for those who missed
It got pushed back, hasn’t started yet. tune in
just heard the interview was ‘too good to miss a minute of’ and it will be aired in full tomorrow instead
Ah, right.
Saw on 710 Jake said Brown is 100% committed to not playing this year without a contract. Not too surprising since he has done this before. Front office has really bungled another one.
Do you have a link?
It’s just Heaps’ opinion, not something that he has inside info on.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1477932/sticky-situation-seahawks-duane-brown/
True, opinion, but Heaps is close to Russ, and I dont think it’s too much speculation that Duane and Russ have spoken. I take his opinion with some more inside knowledge.
If you are depressed with current seahawks issues like Adams, Brown, DLine, Corners etc read this, everything is fine http://sports.mynorthwest.com/1477859/clayton-who-and-what-stood-out-in-seahawks-scrimmage-at-lumen-field/
Appreciate the article Rob. It’s nice to spend some time on the real Seahawks story and not “2021 breakout star” or “____ is poised for a big season”.
Holdouts seem to rarely work for the players. Sitting out games can also be detrimental to the player. In Brown’s case, I’m fine with an aged vet sitting out staying healthy, but that’s also the concern of signing him to an extension in the first place. I predict they figure some middle ground.
Adams is starting to look like a bag of hot air. Reminds me of a couple guys in high school who had a ton of talent, relished the star treatment, but never put it all together on the field- eventually just faded away. He’ll get a nice contract from Seattle, but will very likely disappoint. I’m concerned about the effects on the locker room by rewarding him when he hasn’t shown to be a top player on the defense. Might show other players to behave more like him.
Is that Jay Gruden at :03 ?
Just a visiting consultant?
https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1424851468679475212
Next head coach
Tick tick tick tick tick
The implosion of this team will happen in…..
I feel like Im watching Arsenal (Im a Chelsea fan) at the end of the Wenger era. It doesnt get better after we put Carroll out the door either but its coming. Russ will be gone. The cupboard will be bare.
Anyways, I obviously am not optimistic whatsoever.
Probably will have to trade DK to get what we can in value as well and completely blow it up. at least we probably should after the season. Who knows maybe something magical can happen but Im not much for fairy tales.
Brock also says yes the holdouts are a problem.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1478118/huard-seahawks-contract-situations-adams-brown/
This is fine.
Don’t worry – Lewis can play Center and we can just shuffle the line. Oh dear god.
Or maybe… Kyle Fuller is good. It’s not like Pocic has ever been a good nfl player. Good college player, below average nfl center. Idk if Kyle Fuller is good at all but he could easily be slightly less below average than Pocic
Good thing they’re paying Pocic 3 million fully guaranteed to be a backup!
So if Brown sits out, Fuller starts and say our right tackle doesn’t look as good as we hope – I’m thinking Russ wouldn’t be elated with that scenario. They’ll probably get something done with Brown because they have to but if they don’t it’s going to be a cluster and even if they do and it takes things right up around the season opener then the lack of practice/cohesion will still cause problems. And then we get to cross our fingers that Brown doesn’t get hurt all season….
Blocking TE from Ohio St.? Add him to the watchlist…
What a get Rob! Fun stream
Thanks!
i just don’t really buy that Adams has all the leverage here because the Hawks traded so much for him. He’s an elite athlete who has worked his way through HS, and college and needs to be paid. 10m is a huge amount of money obviously, but playing for what the Seahawks offered him makes him supremely wealthy, and the Seahawks rightly have an upper limit in their negotiations.
So it’s fair, both sides have some leverage, and at the end of the day, we’re all here to play football. A bit of chicken for who blinks first will naturally happen, but i think they’ll work it out.
Now Brown needs some type of something. Wilson can’t be begging for O-line help only for his left tackle to hold out… That’s not gonna fly
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I’m not sure why people struggle with the extent of Adams’ massive leverage advantage.
Here is, essentially, the leverage you are proposing.
The Seahawks have an opportunity to force the player to play for a contract that is way, way under the highest paid at his position in 2021, forcing him to play on the fifth year of his rookie contract with subsequent franchise tags that will also be well below the top paid at his position. And if he doesn’t like that, it’s basically tough shit.
Do you really consider that leverage???
I’d consider that an opportunity to turn a major investment of two R1’s plus into a nightmare.
It would present the very real threat of Adams missing games and the Seahawks potentially needing to basically tell him they’re shutting him down for the season in order to avoid accruing a year on his contract — which I’m sure will go down well. It would equally present a situation where Adams is browbeaten into signing a contract he isn’t entirely happy with. As we’ve seen with Xavien Howard, that is far from ideal either. It could also create a situation where Adams, not exactly a shrinking violet, publicly voices his angst. Creating a major distraction.
If PCJS mess this up, they will be wide open for major and justified criticism. Not only because they failed to get this sorted within 12 months. But because they made a massive trade with significant consequences then botched the negotiation they knew was coming.
None of this is true leverage.
Now let’s look at Adams. They traded the house for him. That’s leverage. They can’t let him walk or run the risk of him being a discontent. That’s leverage. They’ve already offered him $17.5m a year — significantly more than the highest paid safety in the league. That’s because he has the leverage.