C Stefen Wisniewski's deal with the Jaguars is one year at $2.5 million, source says.
— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) April 18, 2015
A shoulder injury (and subsequent surgery) clearly impacted Wisniewski’s stock. We’ll never know how it affected Seattle’s interest. Pete Carroll not only admitted interest in the player during the initial burst of free agency, he also suggested they were “recruiting” and “battling” for Wisniewski. It all went very quiet after that.
He wasn’t the only veteran center Seattle met with. Chris Myers also took a visit. That meeting now looks like a fact-finding mission. How do the veteran options compare to this loaded rookie group? Player A could be capable of starting in year one. Player B might need a little guidance or competition. Last year Eric Winston came in to compete with Justin Britt.
Ultimately they should be able to find a long term option in this class. Missouri’s Mitch Morse remains a strong candidate. He’s also the type of prospect where you consider bringing in a veteran alternative. He’d be switching back inside from tackle. There’s every chance, like Britt, he’d grow into the role. Unlike Britt he would be responsible for a lot of the calls up front. That’s why you potentially bring in a Myers — just in case he needs that extra time to master the position.
It was optimistic to suggest the Seahawks could get Morse in round five of my last seven round mock two weeks ago. His versatility, athleticism, playing style and character could easily put him ahead of most of the center class. Hroniss Grasu’s lingering injury concerns could even put Morse at #2 to Cam Erving. It wouldn’t be a shock if Morse and Ali Marpet were battling to be the next off the board in round three.
If the Seahawks want him, that’s the round they might have to take him. That’s if he’s even there. That would mean potentially trading up for a receiver in the second, taking Morse to play center in round three and then going after a running back, a kick returner, a defensive player or another offensive lineman with the two late picks in round four.
Looks like a lot of teams were waiting until the May 12th deadline to sign Wisniewski without the compensation pick drawback.
Jacksonville was smart here, because they were extremely unlikely to receive a comp. pick next year anyway with all the money they’ve spent in FA compared to their insignificant losses.
Still, if Seattle felt they needed a center, giving up $2.5 million and losing a future 7th comp pick seems like a fair price. That’s basically what they gave up for Terrelle Pryor.
Oh well.
I think that Wisniewski was cut by his old team so he does not count in the compensation calculation. But i may be wrong…
He wasn’t cut simply for the reason that they wanted to get a comp pick for him.
He merely wasn’t signed to come back wasn’t cut. And there must have been some underlying reason (possibly shoulder) for why they didn’t sign him back.
He wanted 5M+ dollars per year for 3 or 4 years… and they didn’t want to pay it.
He’s 26 but possibly plagued with injuries. It’s the raiders, they had the cap space. It was probably because of the injuries or injury.
It could have just been because they thought Hudson was a far better center because he is. They had to spend their money this off season to meet the minimum cap floor so they didn’t mind overspending.
Remember Wis didn’t have his best season and had some key fumbles from the center QB exchange with Carr. The Raiders were down on his performance because they didn’t think he played as well as he thought he did.
Agreed that getting the Wiz is a good signing for the Jags. Honestly I’m surprised he went that cheap shoulder injury and all.Maybe Wiz got the starting job guarantee from Jacksonville. Dunno. It’s a low risk high reward signing for them. Glad Wiz went to an AFC non contender. Bummed we didn’t get him at that low price. Ah well move on.
Kip – nice to hear from you.
Kip,
Missed you around here. Draft season has not been the same without you the past few years. Would love to hear who your favorite targets are this year and see your mock draft.
I get the desire for a vet but Seattle won games with Lewis and he may need an upgrade but Seattle has shown a willingness to play rookies on the line and cable is a great coach. Making the calls will be a conflict for many of the players we fans have tabbed Morse, marpet but if cable feels someone is ready while retaining or even starting Lewis I think we just have to accept that there are going to be pains
Here is another example of the draft board unfortunately trending upwards, with the players of greatest interest to the Hawks drifting up, perhaps out of reach.
I really want them to land Morse for any of the O line positions. I had him in rd. 4 but, Rob, you see him in rd. 3. That would mean having to make a choice between perhaps Marpet or Morse. A very tough call, I’d go with Morse. Regarding Grasu, if his injury concerns are not career threatening, and you red shirt him for his first year, could the Hawks afford that, and would that be an appealing option?
Possibly. It really depends on the long term ramifications. If he can make a full recovery after a year off you consider it. If it’s going to linger then probably not given the talented depth at center this year.
I would have to think it would be prohibitive.
If Seattle opts to select a prospect to compete with Lewis this year, then it would follow that they’d be using an early day 3 pick or better for this need. Doing so would make Grasu really more than just a luxury. Unless he were to fall into the 6th round range. Because we’d have to expect that anyone in the 4th and 5th rounds would be a player we saw as a player on the active roster this year, with the strong possibility of having to start within the year and certainly by year two.
There is a real cost to taking Grasu beyond mere luxury. It’d be at the expense of another potential starter elsewhere. And you’d also devalue whatever OL player you drafted early to compete day 1 as well unless they had a strong positional versatility.
Honestly, I don’t see them taking three OL players. They are 6 deep now and I’d expect them to take two, and add a post May 12 UFA as insurance. I would say it’s unlikely that we’d accept the expected unreliability of 3 rookie OL in our 9 deep. Particularly if they aren’t taken early. If this scenario comes to pass, I would fully expect them to draft an OT prospect and a C/OG prospect. With the C/OG prospect competing hard for a day 1 starter position.
If you take a C/OG prospect early. And add an OT prospect late, with Grasu late. What do you do with Grasu and that other C/OG player next year? You’d have a pretty big glut of interior guys (Bailey, Lewis, Sweezy, Grasu and C/OG). Seattle has generally opted for OT players who can rotate to the inside. Not the other way around. You’d have 5 or your 9 positions tied up on the interior. Bailey can swing — but the results have been kind of underwhelming. I just think that the need for immediate competition on the interior tends to make Grasu a tough choice to redshirt.
Could happen. But it would fly in the face of how Seattle has opted to construct their OL roster to date. I would think that if we do take a C/OG guy early, but he has positional flexibility and could play OT — that could make it more feasible. If say, Seattle selects Ali Marpet in the second, he could move to OT. I’d watch how the draft unfolds for us. Because I agree that Grasu could be on our radar. And certainly, he could be a guy we take — with the assumption that he may succeed Lewis in ’16 after a redshirt year.
I would say it’s far more likely that we pick up an Ogbuehi in that same 4th round redshirt range. He’s definitely got OT/LT dimensions. And he’s in the same injury boat as Grasu.
Hi Rob, great work on the blog as always.
Do you have any concerns about Morse’s arm length at only 32.25 inches?
Have you had a chance to watch Donovan Smith, the left tackle from Penn State? His size at 6-5.5 at 338lbs is much like Carpenter’s who just left that OG spot.
I don’t have too many concerns given he’d be playing center. That would prevent him from realistically playing tackle, but shorter arms are not quite as big an issue when you play inside.
I have watched Smith. I think he’s OK. I’ve read about some character concerns. I think teams will love the size and that’s why he goes fairly early.
A mock everyone will hate. I tried to include players outside of the discussion, rather than repeat the same old names.
2. Daniele Hunter – DE – Louisiana State
3. Ty Montgomery – WR- Stanford
4. Vince Mayle – WR – Washington State
4. Daryl Williams – OL – Oklahoma
Great size, very competitive and plays with a nasty disposition. Average athlete. Replacement for Carpenter
4. Josh Robinson – RB – Mississippi State
5. Zach Wagennmann – DE – Montana
5. Shaq Mason – C – Georgia Tech
6. Tyrell Williams – WR – Western Oregon
6. Blake Bell – TE – Oklahoma
6. DeVante Bausby – CB – Pittsburgh State
7 Leon Orr- DT – Florida
Some of my favorites
Robinson gets knocked for his speed, but he had the same pro day 40 as Eddy Lacy. Second most broken tackles in the NCAA last year. Low mileage, as he only started his senior year. Great character and team leader.
Montgomery is a great athlete, former two sport athlete. Great character and a team leader. Special teams ace. Gets wrongfully knocked for bad hands and inability to track the ball IMO.
Williams is a Carpenter clone – great size, plays with a tough nasty demeanor. A Cable guy.
Mason will compete to start at center right away. Needs to adjust to a pro scheme, but that didn’t stop us from starting Sweezy. Short, t-rex arms, but otherwise great.
Hunter gives us a high ceiling DE – similar measurables to Clowney. Needs a lot of work, but his coaches seem to have good things to say about him.
Orr is a great talent with a good motor. Generally hard working, but quit on his team. But taking a flyer on the seventh is low risk.
Mayle is high ceiling. Only played football for three years. Ran a 4.5 at his pro day after a injured 4.7 at the combine. (Had a broken finger which required him to alter his technique.). Good size
Love the Blake Bell pick. I really think that if a team is willing to develop him for a year that he’ll be ready to make an impact in 2016.
J, I don’t hate this mock at all. In fact, I like much of it.
I would replace Mayle with Dezmin Lewis. Mayle just seems a bit slow. Don’t mind him, I think Lewis is better. Or, given that you have Tyrell Williams in rd. 6, you could go for another type of WR at this spot like Conley.
One disagreement is your top pick of Hunter. I just don’t see anything on his film, except a very raw athlete with no technique, struggling and ripping wildly. So the question is if he can be transformed into Aldon Smith.
I agree that Hunter is very raw but he’s only 20 years old and that athleticism is special. If he could be coached up in the NFL – he can be special. He’s got the talent of a first half of the first round type of guy.
I think you’ve been coming Lewis to rice? I think that’s a pretty good comp and he could be a grew impact player for the hawks……
He needs a team like ATL, NYG or SF to take him under their wing…. a proven person to mold and guide him into becoming a complete player. Each of these team can be patient, Seattle can’t. They have a SB window that is wide open right now.. and need guys (drafted in 2-4 rnd) to contribute immediately.
Do we really? Talent wise, we’re fine.
Injuries cost us the SB last year -mainly to our secondary. And even then we came within one play. We have the flexibility to think long-term.
If you are going for an immediate contributor at 63, the issue is that player is likely to be low ceiling. A capable starter type.
I would be fine with Bailey and Lewis starting at guard and center next year. Less than ideal, but it wouldn’t kill our chances. WR is a problem, but Jimmy Graham covers a lot of flaws. We can win with Baldwin and two mid-rounders – hell wemwent to the SB with Baldwin and a cast of fours and fives.
Not saying we should ignore the problems, but if we want to go for long-term value at 63, we can do it.
J, they may compete just fine with Baldwin and that cast of 4s and 5s, but that kind of ugliness is a recipe for failure in the end. More full halfs of games with difficulties scoring. Inability to hold 10 point leads. Frustration. Can’t have it.
They must replace what they lost from 2013. The most important ingredient: two more genuine playmakers at WR.
I’m not saying it’d wouldn’t be great to pick up a #1 WR. But if there is a CB, DE, etc. we have ranked as a first rounder at 63, and no WR that high, we don’t need to get WR.
Steele – totally agree that they need playmakers. But, at #63 I think we are picking through the dregs if we are only looking for tall, big-bodied WRs.
What I think we need more than anything else is WRs who can gain separation. I’m not particularly concerned about how they gain separation — either through size, speed, or quickness. I think we have spent lots of time discussing the big receivers and also, to a lesser extent, the fast ones. But, what about the quick ones — the guys who may not be physically imposing, but have the Seahawky “unique ability” to quickly accelerate, change directions, and stop on a dime. The guys who dominated the cone drills at the combine.
I’m beating the drum again for Tyler Lockett, the guy who was the quickest through the cones at the combine. Take a look at this video, focus on the separation he is able to get on defenders. Look at the moves he makes at 1:48 and 1:53.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAdtzKnIDs
I know he body catches some throws, particularly on throws where he is wide open. I wonder if he was coached at some point to use his arms to safeguard against bobbles? Anyway, he seems to be able to hand-catch, so I’m hopeful he could be taught to not body catch.
Sure, he’s a smurf. And having a QB who is not tall may limit his effectiveness somewhat. But, I’m intrigued about what he might bring to the team.
“Anyway, he seems to be able to hand-catch, so I’m hopeful he could be taught to not body catch.”
Agreed that Lockett body catches, but I’m not worried about it. There are times where body catching is a better option than extending the hands. Like if you’re running a slant thrown at your stomach-body catch that.He has some drops like everyone else, but has plus catching ability. Like you said, Phil, he is able to extend and make catches. To me too much is made out of body catching. In many cases it’s a concern(Coates), but the focus should be more on whether he consistently makes the catch/play. Lockett checks that box…among many others.
Good point about size. Remember Steve Largent? He was dominant, but he wasn’t tall, and he wasn’t particularly fast. But, he ran great routes, was very quick and could change direction without slowing down. I would settle for another Largent.
Largent would be great. I would settle for Tate. What poetry!
I like Mayle. Good size, former basketball player, a guy who only has played football for three years. Best football is ahead of him. Speed wise he is in the 4.5s, which is less than ideal but good for his size. Good speed on tape though. I understand if you prefer a guy like Conley, Waller, Lewis but I was trying to have a mock with some new names rather than rehash the discussion on this site.
Hunter is the DE version of DGB, only I’ve only heard good things on his character. If you want a potential all-pro DE, he’s the best shot at 63. Yet people seem to be all for DGB at 63, ignoring the fact that he isn’t an instant contributor either.
What about Trey Flowers? I haven’t seen any tape but in lots of mocks I’ve seen he’d be there at 63 and, on paper, has LEO size. I also read an article on him and words like “grit” and “determination” were used. Anybody care to give me their 2cents on this guy?
J and Ben2, Mayle is okay. He just doesn’t seem to stand out. Kind of reminds me of Kearse, but slower. A 4.67 40 time. He has good size, but doesn’t seem to play up to his size. I don’t see the kind of above the rim/outside game I want to see (jump balls, contested sideline plays, red zone, etc).
Trey Flowers and Hunter. Both lack pass rush skills. They are both maulers.
Mayle ran a 4.5 flat at his pro day. He was hurt at the combine, so that explains the 4.67. It was a broken finger, but it required him to alter his running mechanics.
He doesn’t have the 10 yard spit numbers to play LEO in Seattle’s defense.
I actually like this mock quite a bit J. Other than Leon Orr, great job. I’d even say Ty Montgomery could go in the 2nd round to Seattle. We know theylove unique, field tiltingf athletes and aren’t afraid to take guys a round or 2 early.
Hi Rob, I know you will hate my mock draft but yesterday I came out with Danielle Hunter as the pick. We disagree a bit about the pass rush need but I love your blog for all the talk and dialogue (and respect when people don’t always agree on everything). I had Morse, too. Check it out if you want:
http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2015/04/17/open-mic-no-2-bobbyk-breaks-down-seahawks-2015-draft/
And, yes, I hate not being able to fix a blockhead mistake (Marpet/Hobart). Derrr… I was so busy trying to find grammar/spelling mistakes that I missed badly on that one. Ugh.
I think our pass rush needs to improve next year, but I’m not sure Hunter is the guy. He is the definition of raw, and his snap anticipation is comically bad at times. He’s so slow coming off the snap at times that I almost feel bad for him. He is an amazing athlete, though, but I’m not sure he’s worth a 2nd round pick for us.
Give me Michigan DE Frank Clark and UNLV SAM LB Josh Shirley and call it a day. Yes, they both have off the field concerns, but don’t be shocked when seattle takes a couple guys like that this year.
You got to have that dog in you to play pass rusher in this league.
Those two would be quite the combo! I’m in on that set up.
Add Ringo and Hamilton from Lafayette in UDFA and you would have a serious infusion of talent on the DL.
2 very intriguing guys for sure. They both interest me more and more.
Thanks for sharing BobbyK!
Some of my favorites
Robinson gets knocked for his speed, but he had the same pro day 40 as Eddy Lacy. Second most broken tackles in the NCAA last year. Low mileage, as he only started his senior year. Great character and team leader.
Montgomery is a great athlete, former two sport athlete. Great character and a team leader. Special teams ace. Gets wrongfully knocked for bad hands and inability to track the ball IMO.
Williams is a Carpenter clone – great size, plays with a tough nasty demeanor. A Cable guy.
Mason will compete to start at center right away. Needs to adjust to a pro scheme, but that didn’t stop us from starting Sweezy. Short, t-rex arms, but otherwise great.
Hunter gives us a high ceiling DE – similar measurables to Clowney. Needs a lot of work, but his coaches seem to have good things to say about him.
Orr is a great talent with a good motor. Generally hard working, but quit on his team. But taking a flyer on the seventh is low risk.
Mayle is high ceiling. Only played football for three years. Ran a 4.5 at his pro day after a injured 4.7 at the combine. (Had a broken finger which required him to alter his technique.). Good size.
Meant as a reply above.
A broken finger should not effect a 40 time.
Apparently he couldn’t set his stance properly and there is the slighted of push off from the crouched position upwards to full stride
Not buying it. Total cop out. A finger does not account for .2 on a 40 time. Maybe .02 but not .2. Makes me not believe the 4.5.
It can and this is how. You start from a three point stance. He always practiced with his right hand on the ground. Because of his broken right hand, the NFL made him run win his left hand down in his three point stance. Remember, we are talking about 3-4 tenths of a second, a snap of a finger. It threw off his timing. Try it yourself. Get down in a three point stance with the right hand down and then try it again with the left hand down. It feels awkward.
Huh why would they make him go left hand down?Get your point Coug there’s no way I could push off as well off my left hand as my right. I’ve broken my hand before and it’s pain that can be worked through. If I was Maybe I would’ve done it my way or not at all, and waited for the pro day. Dunno it all smells fishy to me.
*Mayle
They would not let him do it his way. Must be insurance purposes. In hindsight, he might have waited for his pro day. But, in the moment and not thinking longterm, running the 40 is what he has been training for months, so he ran. I even saw him a few times outrun smaller DB’s for 70-80 yard TD’s. He does have very good football speed.
He really is a good kid. He even took a year off school when he was in JC to help care for his sick mother.
Speed aside his hands are suspect. Great frame,decent athleticism, poor hands.
15 drops, but only an 8% drop rate. More targets in the air raid = more opportunity for drops.
I think the issues with Matthews and Mayle are just people going along with the narrative.
8% is still higher than you would like, but its not terrible. Odell Beckham was in that range in NCAA, for example.
I don’t know how good Mayle will be in the NFL. I don’t. I think by now, most on here know he was a basketball player and did not play football until JC. He played basketball for a year, then took off to care for his mother. He went back to JC and switched to football.
My question is can a persons hands improve with the more they practice and play, specifically Mayle’s? Most players that have played football their entire lives have likely caught tens of thousands of balls over the years. Their hands are mostly what they are now. With Mayle, will his hands improve with the more he plays because he is getting the repetitions now that other WR’s received in middle school, high school, etc.?
Also, his hands are not bad. They just are not great, just average.
This a response to Coug1990 but for some reason I don’t get a reply button for him.
Scouts tend to break down drop tendencies into a few different categories. There are drops of failed concentration, drops of bad technique, and drops of bad hands. Drops related to bad hands are a bit scary – if a player uses even semi decent technique and just stone hands the ball, chances are the hands will stay pretty poor. Drops of bad technique can be worked on with millions of reps. Drops of bad concentration can come in a variety of ways – the most frustrating are the ones where a wide open WR turns to run upfield just before the ball arrives, and most coaches feel that such drops are easily coached away. Drops of concentration related to catching in traffic and impending contact is likely something that cannot be coached away.
All that being said, it’s important to judge a drop correctly as a drop. A weak pass defense that results in an incompletion should not be graded as a drop, but rather graded as doesn’t make catches through contact or doesn’t shield the ball from defenders or doesn’t snatch the ball out of the air. An incompletion that results from contact should also be judged as a pass defense, and you might rate a player as consistently makes catches through contact, but you wouldn’t call the guy who doesn’t make those catches a drop prone receiver. Finally, if the pass is inaccurate but might be catchable with a good-great WR effort and it results in an incompletion, it’s not really a drop, but rather a limitation in catch radius.
He probably should have skipped it at the combine.
This just goes to show how stupid the 40 yard dash is. In real games you don’t have a sprinters stance, you don’t get to run once and call it a day, you aren’t running in a straight line, you have to wear pads, etc.
A guy who quits on his team or gets kicked off the team for conduct…. no thanks.
Orr was facing a lot of pressure to up his draft stock so he could help out his family. His grandmother has health issues and lots of hospital bills, and his family isn’t that well off – his mom and three sisters. He needed playing time to improve his draft stock so he could help his family out. When that didn’t happen I can see the frustration there. Not to excuse quitting, (which was idiotic, because it hurt his draft stock quite a bit, as a rotation DL at Florida he was as high as a second rounder and no he is a likely UDFA) but its not like he didn’t want to work hard, or had a big ego, or anything like that. Also I would point out that he was welcomed back for the Florida pro day.
This is a guy with a lot of talent, and a seventh round pick isn’t that high.
Sounds like a steal if he makes the team.
Paul Richardson
I have to admit Ali Marpet has me totally intrigue as to what he can become. Realistically he can play the guard spot like he did in the Senior Bowl but can he snapped the ball with a 330lbs. nose tackle in his face. What about the shot gun snap in the pistol formation that we run so much. I think he’s a guy that Cable would like to get his hands on. There’s another option that I also think he would like and that’s Greg Mancz C Toledo. He just has that blue collar worker with great awareness of what everyone’s assignments are on that line any given play. He has the football IQ, Skill set, and he would be a steal in the 7th but I can see Seattle reaching at 170 or 181 to get him.
Daryl Williams is nothing like Carpenter. His mental makeup makes him stronger. You want a guard with versatility who’s played the tackle spot Woola her he is. He likes to bury people and I think he’s the perfect fit at the LG spot.
Lawerence Gibson checks the SQARQ demon category but really lacks the technique. That’s alright we have a year for Cable to do him magic before we have to deal with Okung and whether we can afford to keep him. Who knows maybe Garry Gilliam might be the guy. No matter what there will be a competition for that LT spot after this year.
Morse is going to go real close about the same time as Williams does so I think you will have to pick which one you want more. Neither of these 2 I believe will make it to pick 130. Its just my opinion.
Mason is a short range brawler and absolutely does not fit the mold for a ZBS interior OL that Seattle likes. Of course this is again my opinion.
I can say this there will be at least 3 OL taken and I’d go so far as to say 4.
Oh and I completely forgot about Ty Sambrailo who’s drop on Walt’s mock to 183 which makes me think that some of the rumors are true besides I just can’t bring myself to draft a guy like Chumley from Pawn Stars.
The Marpet, Sambrailo and T. Jackson dynamic will be interesting. Essentially, Seattle can pull the trigger on one of these guys in the second round…. but by their pick in the 3rd round all 3 will be gone.
I agree, Marpet is very intriguing, but he will require the most work to get into NFL shape, conditioning and strength in his base. A 2-3 year project in my estimation. The knock on Sambrailo is that he has had a few injuries in college.
Essentially, I’m for getting Jackson. I think he is the “safest” bet of the three. He can run and pass block at an NFL quality already, more or less a plug and play starter at LG.
I’m not sure if all three will be gone. Sambraillo is dropping fairly quick in mocks so who knows what that’s worth and people can be stoked on marpet and his combine numbers and senior bowl but reality is that Hobart is as small as small can get for college ball. I know many disagree with me here but Seattle has shown a decided preference for power five conference guys on the oline. Now maroet has some real intrigue but last year bitonio was the real deal and Seattle walked right past him to the podium for Britt and Richardson. For sambraillo rumors, accusations and innuendo have dropped their fair share of talented players just before draft day. I know Seattle met with him but for all the people they nee with and draft there are those that get the hawks hat and are treated great,at the vmac and are never heard from. I think sambraillo in the third or even the fourth feels realistic to me at this time.
Good point on the power 5 conferences. JS/PC seem to focus on them. Did I miss something in the news about Sambraillo?
I’m not sure on the reports but there’s been some noise about a drunken party (?) and pulling a knife …..again in not sure on the validity or severity
Scratch…he got knifed then beat up some freshmen….again I think this is a one off and not a pattern. So who knows
About Sambraillo-“He also suffered a knife wound during a 2012 fight on campus that required 14 stitches and allegedly beat up 4 freshman just 3 weeks after the knife fight.”
This is old news guys. It’s not coming back to the forefront like Jameis Winston. Ty got stabbed by some punk kids. Marked them and kicked their punk asses. Is this a horrible thing that 19-20 year old Ty did? Not in my opinion. I don’t see how this issue would make him slide down the board a round-if at all.
Its strange how groupthink works though. I dont think it should slide him down but type in “ty sambraillo,”. And just after his draft info you get headlines that read “sambtailo’s stock takes a fall!!! “.
I dont think he should fall but….he might.
I was just reading on CBPSPORTS draft coverage that Sambraillo is rising.. now a low 2- mid 3 rd prospect. The same with Marpet…. the combine + SPARQ + interviews have him on the rise into the 2-3 rd area as well.
As has been mentioned by Matt and others on this bit of thread, big school vs small school competition could be a deciding factor when the pick is turned into the comish
Me and you Charlie may be the only 2 on the Tre Jackson train. Love this kid. At the combine when asked to describe himself he said ‘hard worker, competitive, and domination.’ TC was also working out the FSU OL this year just like he did last year with Tennessee’s o-line.
Now, please don’t read too much into that, I don’t think you will, but just something to keep in the back of your mind.
The thing about Tre Jackson for me is he has limited mobility in space but a bigger issue I always consider and look for in tape is the ducking of the head on contact. This is a reaction and not something that usually can be coached up. He’s as big as Carpenter was in his 3 year as far as weight and Seattle didn’t like it. The question is does he have enough potential to continue to unlock? I think he’s maxed out and that’s why he didn’t get better last year. A small comparision
Daryl William 6’5″ 327ibs 35″arms 9 3/4″hands
5.34-40, 27reps, 8.18-3cone, 5.15-20yd shuttle
Tre Jackson 6’4″ 330ibs 32 5/8″ arms 10 7/8″hands
5.52-40, 20 reps, 8.4-3cone, 5.3-20yd shuttle
Looking at both Williams is better slightly better athletically but has reach and power Jackson doesn’t have. Williams has outstanding character and work ethic. Doesn’t talk about having a nasty attitude but shows it on the field. The move from RT to LG would make him a monster. Jackson I think will constantly have to battle weight issues if that wasn’t so he would have showed up last year at 320-325ibs and been ready to take his place as the top guard because he looked really good in 2013.
He does not have limited mobility. Check out his highlight clip on youtube and watch the 2 minute mark when he gets out in front of guys on a delayed screen. If his weight is the only drawback then so what?
This is a guy who played in the spotloght constantly and knows what it takes capture the essence of playing on a championahip team.
And arm length and athleticism is so overrated when it comes to what Seattle wants in a LG.
A starting offensive lineman who has played in BIG games… against some of the best in CFB. There is zero concern about competition he has faced, unlike some other prospects. TC working him out and talking to him at the practice, makes me think they really-really like him. Bonus is that he is a good pass and run blocker, which Carp was not.
I should say average pass blocker and excellent run blocker. oops
I am quietly on board as well… May not have the All Pro upside, but he is s plug and play starting guard.
Anyone know why he played RG in college and not LG?
Honestly I wish it wasn’t a factor or THE factor. Marpet I really like but its hard for me to get stoked on him when the team didn’t even blink when passing on bitonio last year….this year I think there’s as much talent I not more in the small schools it just remains to be seen if they utilize it
If Grasu falls I think he would be a great pick. If we could get him in the 4th or later that would be a steal.
Perfect scenario would be to use the 4th rounder to trade up and take DGB in the 2nd. If not then I would take Marpet in the 2nd, Grasu with one of our 4th rounders and Gibson in the 5th. If we did our OL would be set for the next couple of years once we resign Sweezy.
What if somebody in the 50s jump into the 40s to make sure they get DGB? For some reason I think Devin Smith might be the guy- I love his ability to track the ball in the air and I think he has room to improve with more varied route tree….plus he has the speed and shiftiness to shake a DB in the scramble drill unlike some of our current receivers (ie kearse) and would therefore grade we’ll against our own roster. Pete does love explosive plays…I’d trade up for him if he falls into the 50s.
I love Devin smith on the hawks. His tracking ability on a deep ball and fight are amazing
Yeah, he’s got good body control too….good fit with RW and his sexy deep ball 🙂
Smith is a perfect fit for what our offense needs. Not the true #1 WR that DGB could become,but a legit deep threat. Smith fights for the ball…something that is perhaps overlooked when evaluating prospects.(Montgomery lacks) Full route running tree needs some work, but with his athleticism that shouldn’t be a problem. Plus Smith is a top flight gunner on punt returns-special teams versatility. Lockett and Smith are my 2 favorite targets for round 2. Let’s get one of them!
WR Devin Smith catches the back end of the ball a ton on those deep throws. Can that be taught up? Absolutley, but his deep game is a little overblown. Montgomery isn’t that far behind honestly and is much more versatile and unique.
Sometimes we don’t see eye to eye!
Montgomery is a returner and a pretty good one at that. To me that’s where his whole value is. And he can grow into a receiver. Lots of players do that. For me if he wasn’t a returner I’m not even sure what his value is to seattle right now. Now he does also have some gadget to his game which can be good and if used correctly can be effective.
I’m not sure how Devin Smith’s deep game is overblown? I just watched a bunch of cut-ups of both recievers and his deep game and how ohio used him are his only game. I mean that Wisconsin fiasco the qb just launches deep out after deep go towards him and a Wisconsin defender is usually committing a fairly and understandable pass interference on a TD. It’s for me hard to evaluate because it’s so a one trick pony situation. That said I’m still not sure if anyone in this draft has that skill in their game like Smith if seattle wants a player to pull the top off of defenses.
I shouldn’t have said overblown, but rather exaggearted. He catches the back end of the ball because he’s a step slow off the LOS and only uses his speed, not subtle nuances. His deep speed will be matched step for step in the NFL and he doesn’t make plays in space.
Seattle is going to use more quick hitches and run the Spider 2 Y bannana with a seam element added now with Jimmy Graham and that’s why Montgomery is a perfect fit. He’s a gadget player and returner right now, but loaded with potential. Bult like a greek god, unique, big time character and leader, grew up with 17 foster brothers in and out of his house.
I like Devin Smith, but he’s a little too one dimensional. That one dimension is dynamic for sure, but ‘phenom’ aka Ty Montgomery would impact games quicker and in multiple ways.
I agree he’s got very limited nuance just a typical head fake and that’s it. I hope seatlle isn’t running spider two y banana! Isn’t that the fullback as the primary?!
The fullback is hot. With a guy like Tate, Percy, or say Montgomery running that quick hitch/screen. Jimmy runs up the seam on the same side of the field and then the slot receiver on the other side has a go route or can break it off into a deep slant.
Seattle likes to use college concepts and packages and that’s why I personally think that Montgomery is a perfect fit. Bevell loves to run the screen game as we know, but they currently have no one that fits the bill. Watch Florida St’s version of the spider 2 Y bannana and that’s what we should see from Seattle.
Think Cordarrelle Patterson mixed with some elements of Percy Harvin and Golden Tate like YAC ability.
I agree on bevells concepts…..i just hate seeing screens in the pro game. I like montgomery’s versatility and of course they need return help.
Does anyone else think the hawks will take a quarterback
It’s possible for sure.
I thought they might draft one – but for sure they will bring in an undrafted guy. If for no other reason is that they will need camp arms.
I think if there is anyone they like then they will add one for sure. They obviously don’t view Daniels as a compotent backup.
I would be happy with trading a 6 or 7 for Matt Barkley.
Precisely!
I have a feeling that if the “trade up for DGB” does not work out, SEA will be taking a receiver they like at 2nd round, and i would be excited if they picked Tre McBride, i just love him, he is good at blocking, can make very good catches and is good at PR/KR, if SEA wants McBride, they must take him at 63, because he wont be there at 95. This way, we can pick an OL like Sambrailo/Marpet/Morse at 95 and pick a DT,DL and a CB at round 4 and pick Montgomery at round 5 for another returning option. I think McBride is the best fit for Hawks after DGB, and it seems Seattle likes him too because they were at his pro day. I see that a lot of people like Chris Conley, but Tre would bring more weapons and looks ready for the NFL.
I tend to agree that DGB will go before we have a shot-even by trading up into the 50s. I like Mcbride too. Lockett is my guy at 63, but if he’s gone we should go BPA at OL then we could trade up in the 3rd(using our 3 & 5) to get Mcbride. Who knows who JS/PC are targeting.
Since it is a quiet night thought I would throw out and idea to banter. Given the talk about Wilson’s extension and his baseball talk how about this.
Russell Wilson to Tampa for #1 and #2 this year and a #1 next year.
We take Mariota and DGB this year and Eziekiel Elliot next year with the Bucs pick which should still be a very early pick.
Positives
-We get a dynamic run / throw QB who is 6-4 and seems to have great intangibles
-We have a ton of cap space to resign Wagner, Irvin, Sweezy and Okung.
-We get a potential true #1 receiver
– We get a true replacement for Lynch next year in Elliot who I think will be a superstar
Negative
– We loose a true star QB with great intangibles
– Mariota, DGB and Elliot could all be busts and we are left with a Super Bowl quality roster and no QB.
At first I thought it was crazy to even consider anyone but Russ at QB for the Hawks but the more baseball garbage I hear and highest paid player chat the more I think about it.
Thoughts?
I should note I love Russ and want him to be a Seahawks lifer but it is an interesting discussion.
Its a good funny structure but and for the ducks fans dont be upset because I think mariota will be great
please Cleveland or the jets draft him so hawks games in Eugene are not pre empted for bucs games!) I can honestly say russ’ greatest attribute is to get everyone to believe they will win if he just gets the ball one more time….i have never seen that with mariota because they crushed their opponents. Maybe he can do it. But the there are a TON of teams that should really get in the mariota sweepstakes but not the Seahawks.
No way in hell SEA would trade Russ, did you see his videos in Hawaii? He likes everyone from that Group and everyone loves him, he can play out his rookie contract, but they would put the franchise tag on him, hell, even Bobby Wagner dont want to leave.
This trade for Mariota, DGB and Eliott is not worth it, in my mind, Russ is in the top 5 QB in the league, behind only Brady, Rodgers, Manning and Luck, Russell is the MVP of Seattle no doubt, and PCJS loves him.
You do not trade a SB winning QB for a wing and a prayer. Period. rick05 hit it on the head, he is a very good fit and does what they need him to do. Why break-up a good thing…. pulling a 49ers Joe Montana / Steve Young shuffle in the middle of a SB window.
What if your SB winning QB says he will not be coming to camp next year, and will not play until after the baseball season ends in October?
At some point, you have to call the bluff, and move on.
I think the biggest thing no one has mentioned, is that Russell only played in the minors. He has never played in the MLB. So if he were going to hang baseball over the Hawks head in contract negotiations, it wouldn’t do him much good. He’d be forfeiting MILLIONS.
Now if he were a MLB star he could get a lucrative contract. He was a good 2nd baseman, but didn’t have a great BA.
I would do It for just the 1st and another pick. I think Mariota will be awesome. I love Russell, but this has the makings of an ugly ending.
As a side note, no baseball team will offer Russell 18M a year for many years, if ever. Russell will need to find a home where he can start football in November.
I understand his desire, and respect it. However, I do believe his teammates in football, if he were a top paid player, would come to resent him.
My 2 cents.
His desire? Did I miss something? What he said last week didn’t indicate he was going to start taking baseball seriously did it? I took it as a young guy who loves the sport and who doesn’t want to say ‘never’.
Now if he was talking spring training, or training on his own time, (showing action) then I would say ‘desire’.
Ah, Trevor. Brave of you to even think of trading RW. I am a fan of his game, but I am also not unquestioning. I think he has many things to work on, and he has limitations.
However, no way would or should they trade him. Especially for a very inferior QB like Mariota.
Absolutely not. Don’t put so much stock into these 1st and 2nd round picks.
You want to trade Russell Wilson for Mariotta? Hahahahaha, duck fans….
For a team that philosophically prefers Winston over Mariota, it makes no sense to mortgage two drafts to acquire Wilson over Winston.
I think the hand wringing about Wilson will be totally forgotten a week after signing an extension.
We used to see this all the time with rookies holding out in the pre pay scale days. A lot of worrying about missed reps and opportunities and such up until they signed. Then all forgotten almost immediately.
It’ll play out. May not be done even this offseason. Seattle still has 2 years club control on Wilson. Given how Seattle has prepared for the contract, and how they’ve been able to retain/reward their own guys — I have every expectation that a deal will get signed.
Wilson is a franchise QB. Plain and simple. You don’t trade away franchise QBs who are still years away from their primes.
Wilson isn’t going to play baseball. It’s a weak negotiating ploy. He’s on the verge of signing a 9 figure contract to play football; he isn’t going to risk that to make a fraction of that amount by playing a sport that he is weaker at. Once he signs his next NFL deal something tells me all this baseball talk will quickly fade away. When it comes to baseball if he coulda, he woulda.
As far as trading him this year – that might just be the biggest blunder this side of throwing an interception on the goal line in the SB. If anything you put the franchise tag in him after this year. If a team like the Browns or Raiders want to offer him a 6 year, $150 million contract than we will take their 2 first rounders and say thanks for the memories, Russell.
Wilson is a franchise QB. He deserves to get paid. But he’s not a top 5 QB, either.
Reply to Trevor ^^^. Thus site needs and edit feature for boneheads like me!
Just out of curiosity if he’s nit a top five who is? Seriously? It might be how you slice it but Brady is one. Rodgers? Dies he need another ring? After that its not this model manning or drew brees. Its not rivers, or big Ben, matt ryan and flacco…? Stafford not unless yards are more important then wins same with romo….actually same with luck who has more tds and yards with his allegedly bad top ten defense and top flight receivers…to our lynch and D….but after yards you trade his tds by his higher turnover ratio and then there’s the wins/rings thing Russ has and if you count TOTAL yards Russ and him are the same.
Point is Russ is a top five. I’m not hearing well if he were on any other system….that logo goes the same for everyone…if he was on Indy playing under center he’d be great. He was one of the most accurate qbs to ever play in college under center for Wisconsin…and luck would be throwing way less yards here because lynch would be his RB. The whole idea that he does less I’m not so sure about…maybe it should be framed that he doesn’t have to chuck it a ton because he doesn’t cough it up once every two tds he gives.
“logic,” not logo
This is exactly it. If there is a perception held, it’s not going away. I don’t get the Luck thing though. Even Manning had many detractors for a long time (even still). But Luck can do no wrong. I know I would trade any receiver on the Hawks (or all of them) for TY Hilton. But I’m tired of the narrative that any thing bad that Luck does is because his team is horrible and anything good that happens is because Luck is great.
I would trade any WR on the hawks for Donte Moncrief
Sort this post seems like I’m trying to you personally a hard time…im not…
Dear phone…..try again.
Lil stink I’m actually not trying to give you a hard time. I’m just weary of the Pete Prisco “well if he was on any other team….” since unlike all the aforementioned QB’s at east in the small sample of college he ran two systems and was quite good at both.
No worries. I think Wilson is a franchise QB. I just think that there is some truth to the idea that our team might regress when we give him a giant deal. At this point I don’t think Wilson is the passer that Rodgers, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben, or a healthy Romo can be. He is much younger, though, and I understand how every year someone becomes the new “highest paid player ever”.
I just think our team is a little bit different in that our defense and running back have been just as, if not more, instrumental to our recent success as our QB. With Marshawn likely gone after this year Wilson’s contract will mean he will have to carry the team on his shoulders more and more unless we continue to draft like we did in 2010-2012.
I actually think we’re going to find out soonish what kind if passer hell be when lynch retires and he gets his contract. Unless Seattle gets ezekial Elliot next year or strikes serious gold on a,RB this year they are going to have to open up the passing game with lynch at some point retiring.
Stink no need to be an A hole. If you read my whole post you would see I love Russ and want him to be a Hawk for life. I just wanted to create a little discussion as the players it would allow to retain on the roster with the extra cap space and draft with those 3 really high picks is quite an appealing scenario. Truth be told I think Winston would be a much better fit in our locker room of alpha males and if he can keep his nose clean I think he will be a star in the league.
So to clarify I would not trade Russ and love him as a Hawk. Why trade a sure thing for potential. That being said the package of DGB, Winston or Matiota, Elliot and the players on our roster we could retain with the cap space has incredible potential to keep this organization on top for the next 5 years.
I wasn’t trying to be a jerk, I was actually agreeing with you in part. I realize you weren’t seriously advocating we consider trading Wilson. I think there is a firm line in the sand that Pete and John should not cross when it comes to re-signing him before the start of the season. But that’s where the franchise tag comes in. I love Wilson on this team as well, and we all know that QB’s like him don’t grow on trees.
As far as the whole baseball thing goes… Russell may very well want to play baseball on some level. But I don’t think anything he does is by accident. I think he is a very calculating person. I don’t mean this in a bad, sinister way, mind you. But I could see this just being a ploy that has been in process ever since he showed up at the Rangers training camp last year. He is on the verge of signing a contract for over $100 million to play football. There is no way he is turning his back on that to pursue baseball. I also don’t think he is angling to be a 2 sport athlete like Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders.
The thing with baseball if Wilson was any good he’d make potentially Waaaasy more money with those contracts. I’m sure he lives it til death but he knows in his own words “I couldn’t hit curve balls,”…..i dont know if any of this is some sort of ploy…more like content filler in the off season
Could the apparent hang-up in the negotiations relate someway to the Seahawks attempting to limit Wilson’s ability to play baseball? In other words, are the Seahawks attempting to get him to sign a contract saying that he will not play baseball? We will probably never know.
My latest mock using Fanspeak – with Walter Football draft board.
Drafting DGB was a bit tough for me – but WF had him at 38 – and if I was the GM and he was on my board, I’d have to take him. Same with Frank Clark in the 7th. The one pick that I’m not sure would be available in the 4th is Lockett – so someone like Bell or Montgomery might be a more realistic WR available there.
I’d be a happy fan if our draft looked something like this.
63: R2P31 WR DORIAL GREEN-BECKHAM OKLAHOMA
95: R3P31 G TRE’ JACKSON FLORIDA STATE
112: R4P13 C MITCH MORSE MISSOURI
130: R4P31 OT DONOVAN SMITH PENN STATE
134: R4P35 WR TYLER LOCKETT KANSAS STATE
167: R5P31 CB JUSTIN COX MISSISSIPPI STATE
170: R5P34 S ANTHONY JEFFERSON UCLA
181: R6P5 DT XAVIER WILLIAMS NORTHERN IOWA
209: R6P33 OLB MAX VALLES VIRGINIA
214: R6P38 CB TRAY WALKER TEXAS SOUTHERN
248: R7P31 DE FRANK CLARK MICHIGAN
I dont know two things about Anthony Jefferson but this mock looks pretty solid. I have a feeling Clark goes higher just a bit higher but more like the fifth.
Agree on Clark – and yeah Jefferson isn’t my favorite safety, but was the highest guy on the board. Sort of a fun exercise though.
That draft is a home run! Realistically I’d put Clark in Cox’s spot…if I’m nitpicking a hypothetical mock draft.
Yes! Basically that switch and id be pretty stoked across the board
Really like this mock!
DGB & clark? Let’s trade next years 1st for Gordon, and maybe we’ll see if Hernandez can get a work release on Sundays to play for us too. Jeez, at some point you have to cross a guy off your board regardless of the intersection of round and talent.
Says who? Not Seattle.
actually, they certainly cross guys off their list.
Ben2,
I get the concerns. But Clark in the fifth is about the best intersection of talent and concern. Say he gets into a drunken fight in pioneer square and gets kicked out of the league or something else egregious. The hawks haven’t wasted anything really taking that chance.
Now bear with me here…I am categorically not implying that DGB is this guy…but old Randy Moss was a repeat offender in the stupid things kids with talent do department at multiple intervals and turned out to be both a bit of a head case who needed to be focused and not a HOFer but definitely one of the great WR’s ever.
DGB’s absolute biggest problem is that he was on the cover of Parade magazine as player of the year 4 years ago and never really had to grow up. Until Missouri kicked him off the school. A year is a small sample but he has gone a year basically only motivated by himself to stay focused and not cause any more bullsh*t.
As for his game sure there’s problems. He struggles against some press not all but some. And there’s times in his game where it appears it’s too easy for him. I’ve honestly not see him take plays off when they are not directly involving him which is a huge plus. Cant say for his blocking because he didn’t have to do it. He needs some extra routes for his tree but when he’s on there is an effortlessness to his game that could be devastating with Graham and could let Baldwin chill out on all the rants and shenanigans and be a really dangerous slot receiver instead of having to where almost all of the WR hats.
Here’s the deal though, Peter….these guys didn’t do stupid, drunken young men things (I did plenty of those in my teens and 20s and feel that I learned and matured past them). These guys committed violent acts against women. I put this in a different category. Period. So, I understand that a 5th rd pick isn’t much to lose on the chance you get a productive 2nd rd cost controlled talent….what I’m saying is that as a society (yes, business and sports are part of our societal fabric) that certain behavior won’t be tolerated. So, as a fan of the Seahawks organization I hope they pass on these guys. Bruce Irvin is a perfect example of the kind of character issues we can and should give chances to….not women batterers.
Moss was arrested for assault two times and spent 30 days in jail. And had drug problems. Assault is,assault. I’m not getting into semantics about whether men should hit women (they never should) but assaulting/ kicking the crap out of someone to provoke a criminal action is terrible behavior and shows a complete lack of thought.
And I never felt compelled to root for Moss like I would for a Hawk!
Fair. Ha! I’m just setting the overall idea that some players talent trumps conflict and dgb…may, just may, be that for the hawks. Plus I remain hopeful that he kept his head straight for a,while now
Ben2 — I agree on your point, with one caveat. It’s up to the courts to decide on an individual’s guilt or innocence. I think our society often assumes someone is guilty by reading something on the internet and then assuming it is true. Keep in mind that most of what we read on the internet isn’t fact-checked or even edited. It then gets passed on by folks like us, without attribution, and sooner or later it’s assumed by everyone to be the “truth”. Let’s hesitate a little bit in concluding someone’s guilt unless we are sure we know the facts. I’m pretty confident that Hernandez is guilty — I’m less confident that DGB is.
I’d take DE Frank Clark in the 4th round. What rounds guys are tabbed as or if they should go one/two rounds later is irrelevant IMO. If that’s ‘your’ guy go get him and who cares what the mediia and draft pundits think or say.
As Rob likes to say, Seattle DNGAF.
Ben – I hear you – personally, I would have to think a lot about drafting them, but this is a hypothetical draft – where there is a draft board and a rating. For DGB – picking at 63 and a guy is rated at 38, as a GM I would make that pick.
With Clark again, personally, not a fan, but if I’m a GM and he has talent, taking him in the 7th round seems low risk.
It’s a mock – no way to know if Clark or DGB falls that far – but it is a fun exercise, and it made me look at things a bit differently. If one of these guys with “issues” falls far enough, and has some talent, at some point a team will draft him.
I think Burfect – undrafted – is a good example of the type of player a team could pick up, and they might decide to take the risk.
Totally. Too safe and you can end up in the Bevell zone 🙁
The bevell zone seems to be as hard to get out of as the friend zone
I think that would be a group of players that would really add to the roster!
They are fun! Good work cc!
DGB or a C like Grasu or moving up (if needed) for Laken Tomlinson at C is what I’m down with at the moment. John Miller G moved to C, FSU guard/C, A.J. Cann, B.J. Finnie, Max Garcia, Shaq Mason are other options later on.
at wr I’d take Lockett over Bell then McBride then Montgomery…if DGB isn’t there. As I think all mentioned could KR as well. A lot of sites think Lockett is better rounded/catcher/route runner than Bell and McBride.
I think Seattle will also take 3 receivers. One early, one later, and a big target in UDFA. Just my line of thinking.
Blakeney?
Possibly. Nice heads up on him Peter. I kind of forgot about Blakeney honestly.
I hate revealing some of these names, because they’re in my mock draft, but rather Simon & Fraser WR Lemar Durant. A kid from the northwest, albeit Canada, but Seattle seems to love finding guys from there. Again, we can’t or shouldn’t read too much into these things, but they did spend over 2 hours with him at his pro day. He’s also a devastating run blocker and was even used on fly sweeps which is very intriguing because he’s 6’2-6’3, 225-230 lbs.
V12 – you always find intriguing guys – thanks!
Your more than welcome. Just trying to highlight or point out some guys to keep our eyes on and familiarize ourselves with should Seattle take one of them. That way it makes day 3 of the draft just as enjoyable for everyone else as it is for me. Much more than day 1 and right up there with day 2.
Durant is also a kid that had a scholarship to Nevada, and guess who his QB was when he was there?
I remembered him just yesterday. Interesting he has been so absent from discussion.
I like Blakeney a lot. 6’6″ and very lean and athletic – goes up high for the ball. He’d be an exciting free agent. I like Kyle Prater, too, even though he’s not as fast as some. Prater has hands like glue. Then there’s Coxson and Tyrell Williams. Great tape on both.
All interesting guys, no doubt. Prater also was recruited by PC back when Prater was at USC.
Lockett, bell, and McBride are all to me very close not similar but close if that nonsense makes sense! I prefer Lockett but like all of them so it probably means Seattle moves up for jaelen strong! Or drops and picks Justin hardy…a guy I really like but for some reason seems like adb to a “t” or maybe an engram…
After some tinkering from the last mock (yesterday) trying to get the optimum players in every round tht are realistically available… with minimal reach or slip… round projections are from CBPSPORTS/WALTERFOOTBALL
1st
Traded
2nd
Tre Jackson, OG, Florida State (DT)
Height: 6-4. Weight: 330. 40 Time: 5.49. Projected Round (2015): 2-3
3rd
Davis Tull, OLB, Tennessee-Chattanooga
Height 6-2. Weight: 246. Projected 40 Time: 4.59. Projected Round (2015): 3-4.
4th (1)
Kenny Bell, WR/KR, Nebraska
Height: 6-1. Weight: 197. 40 Time: 4.37. Projected Round (2015) 4-5.
4th (2)
Justin Cox, CB, Mississippi State (FS)
Height: 6-1 Weight: 191. 40 Time: 4.36 Projected Round: 5.
4th (3)
Darren Waller, WR, Georgia Tech (TE)
Height: 6-6. Weight: 238. 40 Time: 4.46. Projected Round (2015): 5.
5th (1)
Laurence Gibsen, OT, Virginia Tech (OG)
Height: 6-6. Weight: 305. 40 Time: 5.04. Projected Round (2015): 5.
5th (2)
Kristian Sokoli, DT, Buffalo (OL?)
Height 6’5″. Weight: 290. 40 Time 4.86. Projected Round 5-6
Down to this point, more or less the same as before… now the fun part
6th (1)
Malcom Brown, RB, Texas
Height 5-11. Weight: 224. 40 Time: 4.51. Projected Round (2015): 5-6.
6th (2)
Marcus Rush, OLB/ILB, Michigan state (LEO)
Height 6-2. Weight: 247. 40 Time 4.68. Projected Round (2015) 7-FA.
6th (3)
Greg Mancz, C, Toledo
Height 6-4. Weight: 301. 40 Time 5.08. Projected Round (2015) 7-FA.
7th (1)
Akeem King, SS, San Jose State (FS/CB/ST)
Height: 6-1. Weight 215. 40 Time: 4.39. Projected Round: 7-FA.
If something reasonable close to this goes donw, this will be the greatest draft in history ; )
Charlie–
That’s a pretty good mock! one observation related to several threads I’ve noticed is that there are plenty of concerns about DGB and Clark…a little about David Irving but a lot of mocks from a many site regulars mock Cox in the fifth(ish) but no ne ever seems to say word one about Cox’s suspension, burglary charge, or domestic assault….perhaps people are focusing too hard on some players behavior and not taking into account other players problems?
It could be that his issues are resolved. Teams have evaluated him and decided he is worth the gamble in the 4th round range.
I trust all teams do due diligence. And he’s got skills. I meant overall I dont see the hand wringing for Cox as you do (on this site) for other players….me honestly I have no idea as per incidents and how they played out so I try to keep an objective eye. And Cox is fast, long, and with LOB training could be a real nice pick
Looks good Charlie!
Some talented guys here, who could give some depth and potential starters. Gibson is such an interesting guy. I wish we could see Seattle’s draft board after the draft – that would be such a cool insight.
Give me a tall WR in this draft, and I’m happy. My shopping list, from the top down:
-Consider DGB if he is within range. He probably won’t be.
-Think about Funchess. What is the worst case scenario with taking him? You get another WR/TE hybrid who may not be spectacular, but is still a physical mismatch for certain plays.
-Tony Lippett- rd. 3-4. Underrated as a WR, has the size, hands, ball tracking to be great. He showed it by being productive and winning vs. top competition, and he has upside. Take him for CB, that works too.
-Dezmin Lewis rd. 3-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOwQZRAtdNk
-Conley rd. 3-4
-Kenny Cook- late round/UDFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ig-0a4_Xc
-Nigel King-late round/UDFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1T9j86Ufo
-Lance Lewis-late round/UDFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZN-whn0cyk
-Isaac Blakeney-late round/UDFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbXKhiQi1E
When I go back to Tony Lippett’s film, I really don’t see how anyone can criticize his receiving game.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tony-lippett-vs-purdue-2014/
I see a guy doing it all. Sharp out of breaks. Beautiful sideline catches. Over shoulder catches. Outstanding slant routes. Contested catches, knows exactly how to fight against cornerbacks—because he is one. Blocks well. Is in sync with QB, knows when to come back to help.
I straight up take him in rd. 3, and work him at both WR and CB, feel good that I have a player who is going to be good at either or both.
I just don’t know Steele. I also watched the Purdue tape first and he looks amazing. Then you watch the oregon tape and see his drops, poor blocks, lots of wasted leg work etc.. He has a tendency to lose the ball when physicaly challenged that didn’t show in the Purdue game.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tony-lippett-vs-oregon-2014/
As for dual roles as WR and CB –
After seeing how the first year of a faster and more talented 2nd rounder looks(PRich), I think he will need every second of practice with the offense to get any playing time. I can’t see any player in the modern NFL playing 2 such roles at a high level. A 3rd rounder?
He is not fast at 4.6, not tall enough at 6-2, not athletic enough with a 36 vert.
He is almost everything you’d want but does nothing at elite level.
Your right. If I remember right, I don’t think that Seattle has ever drafted a wideout under PC/JS that has run 4.56 or more. And for corners, I think it’s 4.54.
Oops. This was suppoed to be in reply to Eran’s post about Lippett.
Lippett ran a 4.56 40 on his pro day, so he barely hits the baseline for a WR 40 time. Although I’d rather see him at CB he could be a productive WR. Lippett and Sherman are very similar in size, build, playing background and athleticism.
Lippett:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109827&draftyear=2015&genpos=wr
Sherman:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66387&draftyear=2011&genpos=CB
Sorry too lazy to transpose the results. haha
I disagree with your take on Lippett’s Oregon game, EranUnger. Yes, the Oregon secondary focused on him and laid the wood on some plays, but Lippett also made big plays in this game. He was up against Ekpre-Olomu, juked E-O out of his shoes, made a TD grab, got himself open on many occasions where passes were off target or ill advised.
Lippett is a late developer, pretty new to WR. He can add plenty of weight to his frame to become better at the physical part. Count him out for being slightly less fast (4.6 is not bad), knock him for technique that is still developing, but he was a leading WR vs. top Big 10 defenses. I think he can keep overachieving.
I really like Lippett as well and really hope we can get him in the 4th. For me he is exactly the long corner we love with great hips, and incredible ball skills. I truly do see a Sherman clone who has pro bowl potential at Corner.
I think he is a good reciever but could be a great corner so that is why I make the switch.
Are people off of Lippett because he’s got a thinner frame and wonder if he can hold up as a receiver? I think that may have been some of the thinking behind him flipping to DB.
Tyrell Williams 6-3 210. A 4.4 40 time and a 6.74 3-cone. Among tall WRs on my list, these are great numbers, a tall target with short area quickness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1gvpnXtJpw
Hey Steele, what round do you see TW going? Are you thinking 6th/7th or UDFA or higher?
I would look at him starting in rd. 6 all the way down. A bunch of my favorite tall WRs in this class are all down there.
Thanks!
Hard to tackle, good run blocker…love how he runs around punching people in the mouth with his shoulder pads! He has that long strider overdrive.
Did we not have a comment in an earlier thread that suggested that he he a bad attitude?
I’m sorry to see Wiz gone. I was still hoping they would find a way to add him.
I understand the problems they face with the 2015 cap. Whatever deals they make with RE and Wags may not affect the salary cap as far as base salary but the prorated signing bonus does count. (I.E. if they give RW 35M signing bonus – 7M will count under the 2015 cap)
With 10M left under the cap things are tight…
I am seriously worried about the state of the OL. We had to let 2 vets go, one of them was the brains of this unit (Unger). They will be replaced either by Bailey and Lewis, both UDFAs with some experience as backups last year, or by potentially more talented 2015 draft picks that will suffer the customary rookie abuse as they face NFL level of competition.
Add to it the questions regarding Britt and Okung’s yearly injury period and it does not look too promising for 2015.
I trust TC to grow effective ZBS run blockers but pass protection has never been a TC OL strength. (“We do not like to plat pin cushions, we like to tattoo people…”)
I guess it’s another year of scrambling for RW and finding targets he can hit while running for his life is again the name of the game. (I.E. – can come down with a contested catch when covered tightly.
Shouldn’t be much different then the ARI game last year with Bailey and Lewis…
At least those new OL draft picks can be very valuable when the 2016 season starts.
Britt’s injury period? He started every game last season. He played in 1057/1058 offensive plays including the playoffs. I mean, I understand the general disappointment at the health of our OL over the past 8 seasons, but wow…
My English, sorry. I meant the questions regarding Britts pass protection and okung’s injuries….
I think there is still a good chance they get Chris Myers as a quality stopgap. Better than Wis, in my opinion.
I go back and forth between the Seahawks trying to find a game changer like DGB early, or drafting offensive line early. With two holes in the offensive line to fill and needing a backup left tackle, I would feel more comfortable if the Seahawks picked two linemen early. They really need to find two starters there, and even though there are a lot of players to choose from at all rounds of the draft, why not get the best possible? The line is where it all starts, ideally they will act like a single trained unit. A better line will have better run blocking and pass protection. So why not take care of it early?
Alaska, I have struggled with the same question. I still am not sure how they should go at the top.
In terms of finding starting caliber O linemen, it’s hard to say. Are the O linemen in rd. 2 clearly superior to those in rd.3 and below? I’m not sure. For instance, is Tre Jackson better than Mitch Morse for the Seahawks? Is Grasu better than Shaq Mason at center? I am tending towards “not really”. There seems to be enough depth on OL in this class. Cable may not even want the high ranked guys, if he is looking at converting Sokoli.
But for WRs, a different dilemma. Most seem to believe that the “game flippers” are all at the top.
It seems optimistic to think that any of our draft picks, even at 63 will be ready to start from day one. It seems more likely that we could hope that one of them would be able to take a position in the later part of the season. That would be a real positive in my view.
I think it is most likely that we will see Lewis and Bailey starting at center and left guard, but with some hope that a rookie will move up during the season.
There is the fantasy that Greene-Bechham will be there for us but that is unlikely. But there is real value in adding depth and future in this draft.
Steele, I feel the same way about receivers. The best are already taken by the time we pick at #63. The rest seem equal in ability through the 4th round. Especially if you want a couple smurfs for kick return and slot. The rest are average size hard working receivers without what ever feature that would make them a first rounder. So I could see a draft with OL first two picks, then going into the 4 th round picking two receivers and a defensive guy. But I could see those picks reversed also.
Just watched the movie “Draft Day” last night … Vontae Mack with pick #63!
Sunday sundries…
Finally some Darryl SWAG Roberts highlight film. This guy should be in the LOB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oi3pDKusxc&feature=youtu.be
I’m always fascinated by how the opposition prepares, especially someone like Bill the Buzz Kill.
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/04/putting-together-the-big-board-wide-receivers.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Luke Easterling reports that TB is shopping trade offers for #34. It’s probably higher than SEA would need for DGB, and would cost too much. But where one team is willing, usually so is another. Don’t put the DGB dream to bed just yet. Oh, Easterling goes on to predict no takers for that offer so TB drafts DJ Humphries.
MIA hosts La’el Collins this week. If they want him, they’ll have to take him at 14. Which means they’ll go WR at 47. All signs point to Sammy Coates.
Forgot to include Easterling’s Center position rankings. An interesting perspective:
http://draftbreakdown.com/luke-easterlings-positional-rankings-c/
Easterling’s rankings is pretty standard stuff, except he drops Grasu a few notches. The rest of them, we all know about. The question is, will the Hawks go for a pure center or go the conversion route?
I don’t see any reason to think any less of the possibility of a DGB trade. Nothing has changed in the two or three weeks since we began to discuss the possibility.
Rob, I think you’d have to look at all of the teams picking before the Hawks, eliminate the ones who absolutely do not need a #1 WR, or would vehemently refuse on ethical grounds. Then the Hawks would be facing the rest of the teams who would need him, and the ones on the fence who might. And then still look for trading partners who would not mind giving Seattle a potentially ultimate weapon.
It just seems like a lot of acrobatics to get there.
Seems,like a lot of teams employ problem guys though….or have at one point. Not totally sure who would take dgb off their board for his off field behaviors if this is the league that employs hardy, big ben from years,back, perrish Cox, aldon smith, Peterson with a trade to Dallas, Brandon Marshall is on tv….certain some teams are more willing then others but I think all have a point where talent trumps trouble….
I think we are starting to over think this situation.
There is some sentiment, as we discussed with Tony Pauline, to not take DGB in the top fifty for obvious reasons. But eventually the value and upside becomes too great. He still needs to go to a strong locker room and won’t fit many teams. If it plays out like this, there could be as few as 4-5 possible destinations for him. SEA being one via a trade up.
It doesn’t mean it will happen. But I see no reason to suddenly feel any more positive or negative about this situation than I did when we brought this topic up. Nothing has changed.
No, nothing has changed. No new information on any move SEA might make in R2. Just making the most of a quiet Sunday.
My point about TB looking to trade down from #34 is simply that there are always trade partners out there.
With respect to Mr. Pauline (and that’s a lot of respect), DGB’s potential and upside intersect with his draft value somewhere before #50.
In NO way am I saying it can’t happen (DGB slips to low 50s). But the slew of teams in the middle of R2 in need a WR make that wait a heart stopper. In other words, if SEA intend to sit tight until after 50 to make a trade, they’re taking an awfully passive approach.
For the record, I think DGB is worth the cost to get him in the 40s. His upside – his tilt the field factor – is greater than the combined upside of any 2-3 WR prospects SEA would likely take in this draft if not DGB.
Yes, Chawk, I see DGB as a viable pick starting in the 40s. Conservatively. Can the Hawks swing a deal to place themselves up that high? I would be relieved if they could pull it off. But it will be hard to do.
In fairness it’s not just TP — I’ve seen others suggest they wouldn’t take him top-50. It seems like that might be a feeling within league circles.
I agree.
I could see the 2nd round pick being DGB if he’s sitting there, because as we know, Seattle drafts guys with their first overall selection that have visited the VMAC or they’ve somehow been connected to. Either attending a pro day, visitng with a guy, spending time with a prospect (bowling with Okung),etc.
Still think it might end up being WR/R Ty Montgomery. It’s probably a round or two early, but that tends to be the mo. He’s certainly unique enough, both athletically and background/up bringing wise. And if they stay at 63 it’s essentially a 3rd rounder anyways. It would make everyone go’ ‘but they could have taken so and so, why not wait on him, I don’t like/get it.’ Typical right?
Ty Montgomery is, in my opinion, a separate consideration from DGB, not an either/or. Montgomery or some other returner is a given.
If they wind with just Montgomery and no other WR, it would not entirely solve their receiving problems.
I agree.
I never once said they’d only take Montgomery though. Montgomery will be one of the better options on the board at 63 if the likes of DGB, Lockett and others are off of it, which I think they will be.
Not every receiver they draft will make this team anyways. Arias made a great point about the familiarity with his receivers. Montgomery is a guy that will worship the ground RW walks on and has all the tools to be a dynamic weapon in this league.
The Jimmy Graham trade also says to me that Seattle isn’t entirely comfortable with the bigger targets in this class. You can draft a WR on day 3 or in UDFA out of this class that will probably give you just as much as one of the ealier targets would.
Volume, I don’t think Ty is someone who has to be grabbed before rd. 4. A reach if they go earlier. At #63, a big reach. They should still look for another WR or two, almost to make up for it, even if they go that route.
Some nice tape on Roberts – he looks like a guy who could play the slot. 5’11 180, but always wondering about the arm length. Roberts may be a kick returner too, but I’m not sure.
Also a big fan of Roberts.
That’s why Kansas CB Dexter McDonald is my favorite corner. Because as CC said, ‘D-Mac’ can play outside and in the slot. A Maxi clone IMO with a lot of Brandon Browner in his game. He’s a big hitter, that loves to trash talk, has the required wingspan, and had an 11 foot broad jump and jumped over 40 inches on his vertical. Also like Roberts, ‘D-Mac’ gets his hands on everything.
Left Kansas, because of playing time and let his grades slip. He said he lost himself and needed to mature so he attended a a JUCO school. Then Kansas took him back. Admits his mistakes, knows what he needs to work on, everything about this kid says LOB.
He’s an amazing athlete. I’m sure his pro day numbers have been posted before, but they’re worth looking at again. He has a devilishly good 3-cone time.
40/20/10 – 4.38/2.50/1.48
SS – 4.06
3C – 6.66
BJ – 133″
VJ – 39″
BP – 23
Unfortunately, I can’t find anything to suggest SEA is interested.
They were at his pro day. Not every guy that Seattle drafts will be VMAC visitors or known interest.
No of course not. But just because I like him and you like him doesn’t mean SEA like him. It’s nice when there’s corroborating information to that effect. Not necessary, just nice.
I see what you mean. And for what’s worth, I feel the same way.
Clever, Eric, 6.66 is indeed devilish.
The number I found on 2 different sites differ from those…
40-4.42
SS-4.56
3C-6.93
BJ-11’2″
VJ-40.5″
BP-10
Still very good numbers from a 6’1″ 200 lb late round CB,other than the SS. Source:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/dexter-mcdonald?id=2553234
Hey Matt the numbers I posted were for Darryl Roberts.
Oops my mistake.
Steele, that’s exactly my point about Ty Montgomery. Everyone would say it’s a reach, it’s too early etc., and maybe it is, but havent’t all their first overall selections been considered reaches outside of ET and Okung? If that’s their guy why not? He was a consensus first rounder before the year. What’s changed? The fact he’s raw and has suspect hands, but when has that ever scared Seattle?
Where they’re picking at 63 this year is kind of a dead zone/no man’s land in my honest opinion. Montgomery at 63 just has all the makings of a typical Seattle selection.
I really like that kid. He can play slot or outside. He looks like a mini-Easley in run support. He is great at making a play on the ball. His arm length is a big secret, but they look 4 feet long on many of his PD’s.
Dear Rob,
A little Sunday advice…Unless you enjoy having your hopes built up while being teased along and made to believe this is going to be the year to then only have your joyful months of anticipation crushed into microscopic pieces of doubt and frustration, please don’t become a Mariners fan. It’s much better to stick with the Seahawks.
Thanks for the tip David 🙂
I have been to a Mariners game. They lost 10-0 to the Blue Jays…
2015 Motto: Same old Mariners, with occasional starting pitcher blowups
On a heart break meter where do Mariners fans rank with Cubs fans?
Well, I think they have about a 70 year head start on us, so maybe we shouldn’t feel that bad
The thing that would kill my dreams of the Mariners is that they would find these guys like Ken Griffith Jr or the Big Unit or Alex Rodriguez, and the Mariners wouldn’t pay them enough to keep them. Eventually they would go to some other team where they would win the World Series. Heartbreaking!!!
On a side note, the most awesome pitch ever is the Big Unit turning a sparrow into a poof of feathers. Poor bird!!!
Word is DGB declined invitation to visit DAL. No reason given yet.
Maybe Dallas is trying to use a DGB visit as leverage against Dez?
Yeah, you have to wonder why DAL even invited him with Dez and Terrance Williams.
Probably why DGB didn’t accept. He’s looking to be a team’s #1 WR, not #3.
Maybe he realizes they can barely get to the playoffs and Romo is actually old and there’s no plan after him and though you can’t pick where you go you can certainly blow off a team like Dallas because every year its the same as the year before for America’s team and as chawk says its probably better being a one then a leverage for contract situations.
If Dallas picked him in the 1st round, he will make bank. Doubt he cares who picks him specifically… as long as he gets paid. He he wants a pass happy offense, Seattle is not the place he wants to go.
Sorry to disagree, but none of us know what’s going on in this kid’s mind. I’d argue that he’s thrilled to be in the draft and have a chance to make a roster. He couldn’t care less what kind of offense it is. He just wants a chance. He’ll worry about scheme fit and which team he’d rather play for after his rookie contract is up.
I know it’s pure speculation, but if he’s looking to be a team’s no 1 wideout, boy would he hate it here in the PNW where it’s all about spreading the ball around.
Just my opinion but it’s not really the same thing. Being the #1 WR on a run-centric team is preferable to being the 3rd or 4th option on a pass happy one (not that DAL is pass happy).
Damnit, some team has told him they are going to pick in first round, i wanted him in Seattle, but he is going top 20
I’m thinking Bengals for some strange reason……. perhaps AJ Green
CIN brought DGB in for a visit last week.
I’d say KC. Fits a team need, keeps him local, makes a lot of sense.
Off topic but Gus Bradley’s putting together a potent passing offense in JAX around Blake Bortles. They resigned Marcedes Lewis to go with Julius Thomas at TE. They have a trio of young WRs in Marquis Lee, Allen Robinson and Tommy Streeter, even if none have stepped up as a true #1 WR. And they have Ace Sanders in the slot.
They’re one top WR prospect away from having an arsenal of receiving weapons.
Agreed. Add Allen Hurns to that list of 2nd year WR’s. They needed to do some work on the OL, and have by signing Wiz and Parnell at C and RT. Joeckel is healthy this off season-maybe he can take a step forward to justify his high draft pick. They could really use a top flight RB then some more experience to become a nice, potent offense. Denard Robinson and Toby Gerhart are not the answer. Rob had them trading back into round 1 to get Gordon in his mock(after nabbing Cooper at #3), which would be a major first day haul! Liking what Bradley has brewing in Jacksonville. Their future looks bright…been a long time since that’s been the case!
Couldn’t be more happy for Gus in all honesty. Hoping they have a great season and give Indy some competition inside their division for once. Kind of like Buffalo with New England this year. IMO Buffalo is a couple o-lineman, a QB, and a safety away from being very good.
Word. It’s been said by players in Buffalo that Manuel is really working at his craft this offseason. Hope it clicks for him. Vol12- You’re absolutely correct that the Bills are close to being a true contender.
I just want to see the bills rough up the cupcake Patriots schedule this year.
Not many chances to draft a WR like Cooper. There are 2 or 3 RBs they could take at 36 – Ajayi, Abdullah, Coleman – any of which would be a nice addition.
Agreed but if they could get 1 of the top 2 prospects at both WR and RB it would be even sexier.
I’m in the defense wins championships camp….. grab Vic Beasley, then a RB in 2nd round….. then 8-8 is a realistic shot.
They couldn’t go too far wrong getting either Williams, Fowler or Beasley.
And Tim Tebow is an Eagle!
Nice. Hope he can succeed with Chip Kelly. Like him or hate him Tebow is a winner. He got a raw deal in Denver-taking the Broncos to the playoffs and winning a game, then getting traded.(can’t argue getting Peyton Manning, but still that’s a raw deal for Tebow) If any coach can get something out of Tebow it’s Chip Kelley. God landing spot.(thought leaving the typo in was fitting-ironic mistake haha)
Just goes to show that teams want unique players and athleticism in the current era of the NFL. Find dynamic kids/playmakers and good coaches will unlock that ‘specialness.’
this pretty much settles it… they are going to a heavy ground and pound offense.
Totally agree. Showed nothing but the ability to win. As many wins as Manning in the playoffs. Got 8 balled. If they don’t get Mariota, maybe they still trade Bradford for a 1st and start Tebow
That’s terrible analysis. NFL teams should favor process over results, but all the Tebow supporters are results over process.
He’s a terrible thrower of the ball, or at least he was – who know if he has changed his mechanics in the meantime.
He was successful as an below average FB with a below average arm. He is a good runner for a QB, but a far below average runner as an FB. He was a great thrower for a FB, but a far below average arm as a QB. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/24308/tim-tebow
He’s got a hell of a heart for the game, I’ll give him that. He was a phenomenal college FB star, I’ll give him that. He sucked as an NFL passer, and he sucked as an NFL runner.
I think it’s pretty damning that the Hawks FO wouldn’t even give him a chance after rumors or meeting with him in 2012.
Of course, all that goes out the door if the report that his accuracy has improved http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25099338/tim-tebow-throwing-very-accurate-could-try-out-at-nfl-veteran-combine
But he was never jobbed nor 8 balled. He was really bad, really inaccurate, and a poor runner to top it off.
Agreed with a lot of this. I lived in the Denver area at the time and the sense I got was it was Tebows fans that had a lot to do with him getting cut. Like a lot of things in life the loudest viewpoints in a room can sometimes have a hard time seeing that they are alone in their ideas. Fir all the screaming fans and the billboards purchased there were actually factually tons of people who groaned watching him not complete a pass until the fourth quarter. And Elway knew that like a band aid the best move was just rip it off and start over.
You have to admit he’s a little like RW. He wins, Ugly but he wins somehow.
What do you suppose it would take for the Seahawks to trade for Matt Barkely? If it could be done for a 7th, I’d jump at it. He may end up being cut but then a minor feeding frenzy could ensue.
A pretty cool evaluation of Sokoli, with some hard to find game footage:
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/04/2015-nfl-draft-player-profiles-buffalo-de-kristjan-sokoli/
Reading into the article that Sokoli is a prime candidate to move to OG. Maybe that’s just what I want to see…
This is an interesting read, thanks for sharing.
No problem Charlie. Admittedly I hadn’t watched the game tapes before sharing this. Read the article and watched the snippets, which are informative, before sharing. Well I just watched the tapes and it was completely underwhelming. Sokoli has no idea how to disengage from a block. Not a clue. He stands upright far too often showing an almost willingness to get and stay blocked-often times driven backward. His motor and anchoring ability are average at best. Yes he extends his arms well, but then stands straight up, doesn’t get a push and stays blocked. The only positive I could derive from Sokoli’s game,or lack there of, is that he has some quickness off the snap, but it never led to anything. Needless to say I was highly disappointed in viewing these tapes. :/ Sokoli’s elite measureables do not show up on tape at all. This is a guy who if he had average athletic ability would be lucky to catch on in Canada. Harsh I know but feel like it’s the truth. All that said I do believe with Sokoli’s athleticism that Cable might be able to mold him into an OG. We obviously showed interest in him by bringing him in for a visit. I can’t believe this is because of his DT skills. If the work ethic is there-no reason to think it’s not-then Sokoli might be worth a 6-7th round flier. I really wanted to like Sokoli, but sadly am not able to feel that way any longer. Maybe someone else on here would be able to look at the tapes and see something more positive. Please prove me wrong. Tyeler Davison is a favorite of mine and believe he’s the superior prospect. No question.
There no way Tyler Davidson is going to switch to OL hehe.
Geremy Davis is a bigger 6-2 216 WR who was knocked for being slow. But he just put up a 4.47 at his pro day, and he will rise up the boards for sure.
He plays tough.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/geremy-davis-vs-memphis-2013/
Sub 4.6 speed is always nice, but I don’t think it’s necessary if the job is to win with size. Adequate speed is sufficient.
Good stuff as always.
Potential X factor is health of LOB.chancellors knee injury in particular… And Thomas of course.
Anyone think that their injuries are more concerning than the team seems to let on?
And do you think this could affect the draft priorities?
I actually think sadly that sooner is better for SS….one day Kam won’t be able to do it and his steady clip of injuries will catch him. Honestly both those guys (kam and et) need a draft pick a year regardless of ahead, bailey, pinkins, to play it safe with their intensity. If they play each for a dozen years awesome! Every year I think a pick has to be made as their backups move on and play for other teams.
Funny enough those backups are 6th, 7th, and UDFA gems that JSPC get. Then they move on and get paid. I don’t see the Seahawks spend a pick higher than round 5 on a FS/SS unless they plan to move on from Chancellor or ET. And I don’t see that happening at this point.
Agreed
I think that Earl and Kam will last through their current contracts. But I wouldn’t expect much more from them. Their hard hitting style does not lend itself to longevity.
Rob,
What do you think about Jamon Brown (OT, Louisville) as a possible convert to guard? There is a lot to like there.
There are concerns about his conditioning. He is massive. But the Seahawks have looked at converting guys like this. It’s a decent shout Darnell.
He is pretty agile for a big ‘un. He had some pretty quick times, 5.08 in the 40, 1.74 at 10, and short shuttle of 4.61. Not bad for a guy of 323 pounds. He also had a SPARQ of 112.6 which translates to a 73.6 percentile. Probably a guard at the next level.
I decided to suffer some pain and watch tape of the Super Bowl loss, in order to assess the Hawks’ draft needs. We all know injuries to key starters had the Hawks D at disadvantage even before the game started. But even if the Hawks had been at full uninjured strength on D, there were still mismatches that ultimately won the game for the Pats. I believe the teams will meet again. How can the Hawks beat them in dominating fashion next time?
1. Defending quick, small WRs. The Pats moved at will using underneath passes to three smurfs—Edelman, Amendola, Vereen. Even with Lane in the game, the Hawks did not have an answer for dink and dunk. Do they need a better dedicated nickelback?
2. Defending Gronkowski. Do they need a better LB than KJ Wright?
3. Pass rush. Not enough.
4. WRs. Baldwin and Kearse were shut down most of the game, couldn’t get open. (Baldwin “thinks” he was open more than he actually was.) Matthews was successful until NE adjusted. Then the Hawks had no plan B or C. Jimmy Graham is a good first step towards changing that dynamic, but they need more tall targets and, to take a page out of NE’s book, a smurf who can outquick defenders.
5. The O line took too long to get the run game going, and pass pro was mediocre.
1. Also have to remember injuries up front and in the secondary had an impact here.
2. There isn’t a LB in the league that can cover Gronk 1-on-1 split out wide. Thankfully, it’s the same for Jimmy Graham.
3. Avril injury in that game was the key.
4. WR a definite need.
5. I thought the OL played well overall. I haven’t watched the game back though…
I agree Rob and Steele the big things I saw in the SB were on Defence a lack of Depth on the Edge when Avril got hurt and no push up the middle with Hill and Mebane out. Brady had time to pick our secondary apart. I think out injuries in the secondary really impacted our usually great tackling and that showed up most on the short / intermediate routes.
To solve this I think Shaq Riddick on the Edge, Frank Clark at DE and Christian Covington at DT would all be solid picks in the middle rounds for the DL Rotation.
On Offense I thought our lack of seperation by the WR in passing game was a glaring weakness. I thought our OL played one of their better games and Wilson had more time than normal. There was simply no one open on most plays. Matthews had a great game but his catches were all contested balls where his length not seperation allowed him to be successful.
That is why the idea of trading up to get a guy like DGB is so appealing. If we can’t then Waller, Mcbride, Conely in Rd 3 should all be considered and then Smelter in the 7th.
Finally our kick return game was awful. Compare that to Harvins kick return efforts when we won the SB. This is an area that has to be addressed. We have a run focused offense and great defense. A key with that concept is strong kick return game for field position and last year we were awful with Walter and the rest who tried. That is why Agholor or Dorsett would have been a great pick but sense he will be gone. Lockette, Bell and Mcbride all have to be considered.
I would add Montgomery to that list as a fast. strong, elusive returner and YAC receiver. Agholor remains my favorite, but I think he’s long gone in the 1st round.
Rob, the LOB’s inability to cover the NE dink-dunk is something NE knew they could exploit based on the game from 2012, and from the SD game. With the LOB healthy, it is still a problem. Kris Richard should solve it. I don’t know if it is a matter of scheme or personnel, but I would not mind them considering some quicker nickels like Senquez Golson, just to have that option.
The LOB did not have an problem covering Denver’s short passing game. Why NE’s?
Trevor, I love the idea of Riddick, Clark and Covington. That would be a foundation type of lineup.I suppose getting all three is possible, but with more needs than picks, some of it will have to be dealt with in UDFA.
They’ve faced several dink and dunk offenses and destroyed the lot until the SB. Injuries were a major key in that fateful game.
Ty Montgomery, has a unique skill set that we do not have. He is the best KR/PR guy in the draft with a 25 yard average returning kickoffs and 19 yards on punts. His uniqueness comes from his 6-0, 220 lb body. Stanford occasionally lined him up in the backfield as a RB. He can defeat the jam at the LOS to get into his routes quickly and is a hard guy to tackle in the open field. Imagine Marshawn returning punts. This is what you get with Montgomery. He works at being an excellent blocker. Stanford used him to crack back on the DE’s to open running lanes outside. Until a couple unfortunate fumbles he was considered one of the top receivers coming out in 2015. I could see him being effective as a gunner on the coverage team replacing Lockette. He is a potential Pro Bowl special teams player. I would grab him in the 4th round.
After watching lots of film, he’s one of my favorite players in the draft.
Yikes what are you? a Masochist? just kidding
I haven’t watched the SB but losing Avril in that game didn’t help with the pass rush. the Hawks were pretty depleted in the D-line category relying on Landon Cohen a lot during the SB after Avril went down. we will be getting some D-line back this year and hopefully they can stay healthy (Mebane, C. Marsh, J. Hill and Dobbs)
I believe lane went down in the 1st and unfortunately got injured after that pick. definitely didn’t help when they had to move Maxwell to the inside on nickel downs. Simon got handled all game and even sometimes during the season he did, just opposing QB’s didn’t take advantage (I.E interception against Mark Sanchez, Simon was caught between two WR and picked off a pass that could’ve been over thrown or underthrown still not sure haha but he was beat by I believe Cooper up the sideline and a better QB makes that throw)
David, I have avoided watching the tape until now. I still won’t watch the whole thing! When I look at the first quarter with Lane and Maxwell where they are supposed to be, they still didn’t cover it that well. It is probably a combination of lack of pass rush and natural mismatch, and great execution by NE. Anyway, something needs to be done.
Yeah they didn’t have an answer for the pats dunk and dunk but I think the whole secondary being extremely hurt had more to do with that then the pats finding the sweet spot. Prior to the the last time I recall a team beating us with that kind of player is Titus young for Detroit. I honestly think a two armed sherm/et and lane not getting wrecked on that int and its a different game. I dont play coulda woulda because injuries are one of any teams opponents heading to the superbowl and the pats dont go to that many superbowls without being great.
Agree with rob…there just aren’t many gronks to worry about. They need to worry about why old, slow, crafty gates beat them so badly early on….that was more concerning to me.
As for the WR’s bevell is clearly never leaving so the wr’s need to…someone needs to be able to run a scramble and I think one game last year they used quick slants and such to beat blitzes. If the box is getting stacked I think a bigger issue then getting the run game going is why on earth dies it take bevell so long to change the passing attack? And if you can’t run the rock make the other teams defense pay by short pass after short pass with some west coast concepts until the loosen the line.
Bingo. Bevell is horrible. With so many banged up DB’s, we should have dressed more too. Our OL looked much better, because they never really blitzed (which is unique from a 3-4 team) and played a mix of zone and man. Our biggest needs are:
1. OL (in the next year, we could have 2 Britt/Sweezy on the team)
2. WR (difference maker and once again in the next year, we could have 2 Richardson/Baldwin)
3. Returner (we have Blackmon, but would be nice to get a better player at WR or CB with those skills)
4. DL (an inside pass rush or another outside rusher, with no Avril/Hill it left only Bennett all alone
Then you must think Pete Carroll is an idiot.
No, but I do think he really got outcoached in the SB
Seahawks knew that the Patriots live off the passing game. Going into the game without a viable backup to Lane was a huge mistake. Our big cornerbacks could not keep up with a bunch of smurfs and Bradys excellent passing. They should have put Burley on the roster. Even if Lane had been healthy, Burley would have been useful in their pass defense.
True. Who knows why burley wasn’t even active.
I’ve actually watched it a few times. You’re right about being killed by the dink and dunk throws. The Seahawks needed to use Kam to lay the leather to Edelman/Vereen, but they also needed him to cover Gronk. Losing Lane really hurt ..
We need our own smurf offense. Baldwin was covered by Revis but where was the help? The coaches chose Matthews over Norwood for the active roster in the SB. The other smurf on the roster was Bryan Walters with PRich injured. The 5th receiver who returns punts must also contribute as a WR occasionally. Next year whomever we have as the last receiver will do more than fair catch the ball.
We will never see a pair of CB’s like Revis and Browner. No one has a CB as big as Browner to make the adjustment that NE did. What we saw from Matthews is what we are going to get. No one will stop it with Jimmy Graham also on the field. We do not want all of the receivers to be big, tall guys. We do need the smurf receivers. Baldwin is RW’s favorite target because he gets open quickly. Revis could not take two guys like Baldwin away.
It was apparent we were thin at the nickel corner spot to start the season. That is why we traded for Burley. The corners cannot all be tall guys if we are going to stop a smurf offense like NE has. Look for a smaller nickel back in the draft to help out.
I had already had that in mind when I mocked Sequen Golson at pick 134.
Totally agree. With all of the quality shorter WR’s in the league Golson would be a nice pickup. Next year we face John Brown (twice), Golden Tate, and Antonio Brown just off the top of my head.
Shorter CBs are fine. They just have to have long arms. 5-10 with 32″ arms. Find that guy and that’s a prime NCB target for us.
Yes, they do need some variation on their own smurf offense—beyond just Baldwin—and another tall target.
Rob. Wonderful site. Love you takes, even if I disagree on some things. Could make the list of all of Seattle’s invitees, a blerb on each and what round you expect them to go in? My list is incomplete, but here is who I have.
DL David Irving, Iowa State
DT Kristjan Sokoli, Buffalo
DT Tory Slater, West Georgia
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford
WR Chris Harper, California
S Demarious Randall, Arizona State
CB Tray Walker, Texas Southern
RB Mike Davis, South Carolina
WR Ed Williams, Fort Hays State
LB Reshard Cliett, U South Florida
OL Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State
OL Robert Myers, Tenn State
I read somewhere else that Seattle drafts (or signs PFA) a historically a minimum of 4 player from the visits list. I would love to familiarize myself with each player from the list because the odds are great that some of these guys will be in camp next year
Your right about the minimum of 4 players. They always dravt from the invites list and typicaly take 6-7 sometimes even 8 guys off their list/out of their pool.
UNLV AM LB Josh Shirley was also at the VMAC, they’ve visited with OK St SAM LB Sam Wren, UL-Lafayette DTs Christian Ringo and Justin Hamilton have also visited the VMAC, and I’m almost poaitive there’s one or two names I’m forgetting.
Thanks for helping me add to the list. I’m really interested in these players. I love mocking players whom I have researched, but it feels like such a shot in the dark most days and I even examine player types and Schneider’s draft history.
Any chance we trade a 7th for Matt Barkeley? PC might.
This would not surprise me.
In a draft where SEA doesn’t trade up for DGB (or any other WR), there’s been talk of them taking the highest rated OL or the highest rated WR remaining. Both position groups need infusions of talent and competition. Either kind of pick would make sense.
But…
1. The extraordinary depth at OL in this draft – it’s hard to think SEA would win any more games in 2015 with a R2 prospect at LG/C than one from R4 or R5 in and of itself;
2. The double talent plateau centered around late R1/early R2 and R4 – unless one of their guys from the top tier talent group falls to 63, not much difference between the late R2/R3 group and those available in R4; and
3. There’s been discussion on SDB – particularly on this post – about SEA’s need for a nickel corner, and for 2nd team/future starters at FS and SS – it’d be tough to pass on Damarious Randall.
It may come down to which combination of prospects would best serve SEA’s needs? R2 OL + R4 WR? R2 WR + R4 OL? R2 BPA + R4 OL/WR? Etc.
2. Could not agree more. There’s really nothing seperating guys in round 3 and early to mid round 4 from the guys who will/ could be available. The 63rd selection is realistically a 3rd anyways. Only thing that says otherwise is in name and title.
Especially in this draft. Davis Hsu called this year’s R3 as a mix of R2 fallers and R4 overdrafts.
Hey V12, have you seen Kenny Cook’s highlights? Superb hands, nice YAC. Plays faster than his 40 time suggests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ig-0a4_Xc
Yeah I have. I brought him up a month or 3 weeks ago I think it was. Seattle was said to have showed quite the nterest at Gardner & Webb’s pro day. His back-story is amazing too isn’t it? He’s a guy that we should keep our eye on IMO.
Will they emphasize defense again, at the expense (or risking being at the expense) of offense? They take that chance in not trading up for the field flipping WR.
In terms of safeties, what will they do with Pinkins and Deion Bailey? Shead has been okay, will he step up?
Nickel is also not a clear picture at the moment. Lane has always been a weaker link in the LOB. Burley is a patch, and I also wonder if Blackmon and Cary Williams are on short leash.
The roster has adequate depth at some positions, but the quality of that depth is somewhat suspect. WR is an example of this. What to do with the ones who are kind of just okay?
A few random thoughts ten days out from the draft…
– first, thanks and praise to Rob, not only for this super website, but also for his increasingly impressive scouting reports. I especially appreciate his analysis of OLs. I can form a pretty good impression upon viewing QBs, RBs and WRs from selected highlights, but it is very difficult to analyze an OL without putting in the kind of work that Rob does. Case in point: Rob absolutely nailing the analysis of Bitonio last year. However, reading Tom Cable’s mind is near impossible in terms of guys fitting his internal profile.
– re the WR position, I just don’t see Seattle going WR in R2. DG-B is the only guy who fits the need, and he won’t be there after about 40 picks (and I suspect he will go R1 to a team ready to gamble on his potential and ignore his red-alert red flags). No way the Seahawks need yet another slot guy, and the SEs such as Coates or Carter just aren’t as important to the success of the team as a starting lineman would be. The return guy the team so badly needs (Montgomery, McBride, Agholar?) will take one WR slot on the roster and is there room on the roster for a 2d WR unless someone like Norwood is bumped off?
– for that reason, when in doubt, always go for the lineman (which coincidentally is the weakness of this team). Our QB and RB positions are obviously elite, and with Graham, the receiving corps is super solid for this season at least, more so when Richardson returns from the PUP. Same with the D… our DBs are the best secondary ever, and our LBs are championship caliber. To me, it is a no-brainer to go OL and/or DL in rounds two and three, especially given that OL has real depth into the mid rounds.
– to that end, who might be Seahawk-y enough to project? Rob’s guy, Sambrailo, sort of fits the mold and sort of doesn’t. He is not a sparq-guy like Bitonio last year. He has good feet, his first two or three steps appear very quick, but he is somewhat slow overall, does not have good weight room strength, and his body is mediocre. If Rob says he is R2-worthy, I will trust his analysis, and be happy, if somewhat surprised, if he is the pick.
– to my eye, OG in R2, and C in R3/4, seem more of a sure thing. Any one of Cann, Tomlinson, Marpet, Jackson, Morse or Matias are plug-and-play guys, and at least a couple of them will be there R2. Grasu, Gallik, Mason, Garcia and Finney look like very solid centers to me, and Grasu may be there R3, and a couple of the others R4. Add a DL, either Leo or DT, and there’s the beef going into next season.
– the talk of a RB seems odd to me, given that Beast Mode is a good possibilty for at least a couple of more seasons, both Pete and RW are in love with Turbin, and adding a 3d RB in the draft would likely mean cutting Christine Michael (something I doubt they will do until they see more of him in the preseason)…. so I would be surprised at a RB prior to R5.
– depth is needed almost everywhere, except maybe TE and RB, and free agency has taken its toll on our second string, so we need all these picks this year. It will take a sure thing for John to trade away a R4 pick to move up ten slots in R2.
– most of all, we need our draft picks to stay healthy! Injuries decimated the team last year and cost us the Super Bowl, so we need better injury luck this year, and scouting for a history of being able to stay healthy should be a priority. (Didn’t Richardson, Simon and Marsh have injury histories in college?)
– I am ready to be surprised yet again by John, and though we seem to be getting a little wise to his ways, I suspect he will always be two steps ahead of us. Go Seahawks.
* …are we missing a clue from the Russell Okung situation? His cap hit this year is $7.3 million, a huge hit, and he could be signed to an extension to bring significant salary cap relief this year. The fact that he does not appear to be negotiating an extension could be a clue that the team will move on at LT after this year? The Seahawks can carry only so many $7+/mil/yr guys, and Okung may be the odd man out, in large part due to his injury proclivities? Drafting a developmental LT who is not plug-and-play but might be ready to replace Okung in a year – Cedric Obbuehi, Ty Sambrailo, Jake Fisher, or Donovan Smith – might be the surprise R2 pick, although Fisher and maybe Ogbuehi would likely require a trade up?
That’s probably the Wild Card BPA OL scenario – if Ogbeuhi or Fisher somehow fell to 63.
FWIW, I think Sambrailo is worthy of SEA’s first pick. He may start his career at LG, but I’d bet he can play outside in the pros.
He’s definetly worhty of it.
James, I think Cann will be off the board well before #63.
I have the same questions about WR. What to do with existing guys who are probaby okay, but worthy of being on the bubble or let go? How many WRs in this draft? If I look strictly on what I think the tactical needs are, they need at least two WRs. (1) another taller WR as (best case) to create a Triple Towers attack with Graham and Matthews, or (worst case) insurance in case Matthews fails to live up to expectations (2) a reliable vertical threat.
I have not been a fan of another slot WR. Baldwin is not going anywhere. PRich will be back. However, when I look at how NE causes problems with multiple smurfs, it bothers me. Perhaps a low round/UDFA change of pace RB with good receiving skills would be useful.
The punt and kick returner is a must, but it does not necessarily have to be a WR. I am surprised nobody is talking much about the RBs or secondary guys who can return. They’re out there.
2. There’s every chance in the world that Norwod might get bumped. I love the guy, he’s easy to root for, but he’s already 26 I think, and yes I know inuries derailed his progress this TC, but the coaches seemed to think that Matthews had progressed more and was obviously more of an impact receiver. And as much as I like Chris Matthews and do think he’ll be a part of this team this year, what if he isn’t and gets bumped?
So my point is, there actually might be room for 2-3 WRS. Stash someone on IR or the PS. And let the other 2 battle it out in camp.
And your absolutley right about the return receiver/offensive weapon taking up one spot, so wouldn’t that receiver be contribuitng the most?
This was in response to James.
Kearse, Norwood and Lockette are my candidates for bump, although they seem to love Lockette on ST.
I often think—impractical/unrealistic of course—of them starting completely from scratch on WR. Replace them all. Even ADB.
If they spend 11 picks, 6 will be between OL/WR. Plus UDFA’s.
I could see 4 new faces in the WR group come camp time fighting for a roster spot.
I’ll say 5 will be OL/WR. Plus one WR in UDFA and an O-lineman.
Because of the wide talent level, I’m thinking of this draft in terms of 5 picks through the fourth round, and 6 picks in the later rounds. How would I like to spend those picks? For first five, and in no particular order, I would like 2 offensive linemen, 2 wide receivers, and 1 defensive linemen. That would be a very solid draft for positions of need.
In the later rounds 5 and on: 1 cornerback, 1 running back, a safety, another DL, another OL, and a linebacker. That would be for depth and future competition.
I’m assuming that the wide receivers or running back can also do kick returns. I think that sort of a draft would fill the Seahawks needs nicely.
I am on the fence about Frank Clark. Rob, you like him, and edge rushing talent seems limited in this draft class, but when I look at film like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lrq5IXElLA
I see a guy not getting to the QB. Just not that explosive or technical. There is nothing more frustrating than watching rushers who fail to get around the edge.
Rob, one guy I’ve been liking more and more is E. Washington OT Jake Rodgers-6’6, 310-315 lbs. Seems like he’d be a good/high SPARQ developmental tackle. Plays nasty, highly competitive, extremely driven, versatile, former starter at Wazzu.
Thoughts on him?
CHAWK what was Christian Ringo’s SPARQ score and pro day numbers?
6’1″ 293
4.97/2.88/1.75
VJ – 29″
BJ – 113″
BP – 28
He pulled a hammy on his 2nd 40 run, so no SS or 3C, and consequently no SPARQ.
SEA will go into the draft with Lewis and LJP under contract.
this is good news
I never saw anything special with Wisniewski. He looks extremely average and I’d rather have a player like that under a rookie contract.