Thanksgiving podcast: Apple Cup, college football & more

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. In this latest podcast Kenny and I discuss our recent trips to Denver and Seattle, the Apple Cup, Russell Wilson and many other topics.

Check it out:


  1. Kenny Sloth

    Go Hawks. Already peeped it last night.

  2. Sea Mode

    Kind of off topic, but someone pointed out in a comment on FG an interesting conjecture on the Jamie Collins trade that got me thinking.

    Besides it just being a typical Belichick move (my way or the highway, ala Dominique Easley) and possibly getting the comp. pick in 2017 instead of 2018, it would make perfect sense if they plan to go after a big FA signing this off-season, which would have cancelled out the 2018 comp. pick they would have received for Collins. Alshon Jeffery? LeVeon Bell?

    Whether you buy the “he was freelancing” narrative or not on Collins, it just doesn’t seem worth it to lose a talent like that for half a season when they are in legitimate SB contention if not for some additional reason, even if Belichick didn’t like him and they were not planning to extend him.

    What do you guys think? (and Happy Thanksgiving to those who are celebrating it!)

    • Nathan

      I heard one theory which maybe true.

      Perhaps the front office were also sending a message to the other players coming off contract that they won’t be stuffed around by players holding out for bigger dollars.

  3. Kenny Sloth

    This Lions-Vikes game is trash.

    • Rob Staton

      Awful game

      • Kenny Sloth

        I still assert that Matthew Stafford has one of the most natural arms ever to play the game.

        In spite of his mental mistakes and subpar athleticism he makes crazy magic happen.

        • Kenny Sloth

          He zipped that ball to his checkdown with no base in a perfect spot to hang his man out to dry.

          • Sea Mode

            Hey, where’s our Nick Eaton superfan? He’s playing! 😉

            • Sea Mode


            • Kenny Sloth

              Oh snap! The center for the vikes?

              I’ve heard of him

              • Volume12

                The Lions nailed it on the O-line with this draft class. OT Taylor Decker IMO is the best rookie O-lineman, and I hope they keep Graham Glasgow at LG he’s a stud.

                • CHawk Talker Eric

                  Conklin has been pretty solid for TEN.

                  • Volume12

                    Yeah he has. Pass protection wise Conklin still has a ways to go.

                • Kenny Sloth

                  You think they resign Reiff

                  • Volume12

                    I think teams are gonna throw a lot of money at him and Ziggy Ansah.

                    They’ll try to re-sign him would be my guess, but doubt he stays.

                  • Volume12

                    Jeff Risdon who covers the Lions and writes for Draft Breakdown said he thinks Ziggy Ansah may be the odd man out.

  4. CHawk Talker Eric

    Nice quote from’s Greg Rosenthal in his weekly QB index:

    (Russel) Wilson climbs to his season-high slot (#3 behind Brady and Ryan) as he continues to hit big plays from the pocket. The ability to evade pressure has been an added ingredient the last few weeks, but he doesn’t make a meal out of the skill anymore. His stakes are high. Wilson is only now hitting the prime of his prime, surrounded by an entire organization doing the same. The time is now for a second Seahawks title.

    Happy Thanksgiving to the SDB community and all your families!

    • Volume12

      Happy Thanksgiving my man.

      Hope your available this Saturday on the open thread. We gotta get 1 in right?

      • CHawk Talker Eric

        Thanks brother. I hope I can hang out with you on Saturday.

  5. Kenny Sloth

    Was Kirk Cousins not covering his heart for a reason?

    Not saying I care, just curious I guess

  6. DC

    Got a new crush on USC LG Damien Mama after watching film.

    Dude is monster listed anywhere from 325 lbs to 350(which could be a problem) but really moves well and pulls a lot. Gets to the second level often. Looks dominant in the run game and okay in pass pro(aka a Seahawk OL). Looks the bully on the field. Both videos were from 2015. Though he’s a pure G it seems like we have enough T/G capable guys now that the team could afford the move. Allows for interesting competition at LG, RG and RT.

    Fant / Odi
    Mama / Glow / Odi
    Britt / Hunt
    Glow / Ifedi
    Ifedi / Gilliam / Odi

    • Trevor

      Sounds interesting will have to check him out.

  7. Trevor

    That Dallas run game is crazy good! Wow

    • Ishmael

      They’re scary. They’re almost the inverse of the Hawks, insomuch as you know exactly what they’re going to do but they just beat you with better players and execution. They’re not doing anything special, they’re just really, really, good.

      • Volume12

        Very good. Unfortunately that defense is gonna let them down and I think it’ll be in the playoffs.

        The NFL needs more rivalries, and Dallas/Seattle has all the makings of the next great one.

        • Kenny Sloth

          The D almost let them down tonight.

          Desean Jackson would fit like a glove herw

          • Volume12

            He might be a Steve Smith type of receiver. A guy that can contribute well into his mid 30’s or so.

        • Ishmael

          You can’t let them get a lead. They’ll just munch clock otherwise, run the ball down your throat. And the more you’ve got to go up against that O-Line, the more you’re going to struggle. It’s Pete’s ideal really.

          They look less vulnerable than the Panthers did last year, where it always felt like that 15-1 was a bit dodgy. They’re scoring 28 points a game, and only giving up 18. I wouldn’t be holding out on their defence just collapsing.

          • Volume12

            I’m not holding out for them collapsing, I’m banking on that defense letting them down at some point. Big difference.

          • Sea Mode

            I respectfully disagree. I think that they are significantly more vulnerable than the Panthers last year and am surprised you would make that comparison. Dallas defense is not even close to the level of last year’s Panthers in my opinion, especially the front 7. And even their secondary, while it has taken a clear step forward this year, was not impeding the Skins from moving the ball down the field freely with the passing game.

            Skins really should have taken the game if not for having left points on the board in the first half.

            Not trying to take away from what Dallas has done this season, cause wins are wins. Yes, they are good. We know they are going to score points, but what good offenses have they faced this year so far that also have a top 16 run defense to at least slow down Elliott a bit? The Giants, to whom they lost, and the Steelers, who they beat in the last minute. Their other opponents were: Bengals, Redskins (x2), Bears, 49ers, Packers, Eagles, Browns, Ravens. All bottom half in rush defense at the moment.
            Rush defense ranking 2016 (for what it’s worth; I know these numbers don’t tell the whole story)

            So I have to agree with Vol. that, while their offense is legit, I don’t think their defense will be taking them very far in the playoffs this year. They will have to play teams with both offense and better than average run defense, like perhaps Giants, Cardinals or even Vikings (if they can hold on and get Peterson back). The Eagles (who took them to overtime) or Redskins (if they make the playoffs) could come back and beat them too.

            If Jaylon Smith plays next year and they hit on one pass rusher in the draft and another in FA, then I will be worried.

            • Kenny Sloth

              To be fair the Cowboys have a much better OL than Carolina did and better but somewhat similar weapons.

              Is Dak MVP-winning-form, super-saiyan Cam Newton? Not on his best day.

              Zeke is probably better than Stewart and Morris is as good a backup as there is in the NFL.

              They lead the NFL in rushing yards and maybe there’s a reason every team they’ve faced ranks in the bottom half of the league in rush defense.

              I know they probably didn’t at the time. A lot has changed since the Cowboys played those teams. I remember at one point for instance the Packers ranked very high in run d.

              Injuries occur, identities falter, but you have to respect the consistency of this team.

              How lucky are they that Tyron Smith and Dak Prescott aren’t out with ACL’s like Minnesota?

              You both make great points and I’m really thankful for the intelligent conversations that we can have here.

  8. Cysco

    Gotta hope that no one is dumb enough to take Tony Romo’s contract off Dallas’ books this offseason. If they free up 23mil in cap space next season and spend it on the defense, Dallas could be really scary next season.

    • nichansen01

      They’re already very scary this season.

      • Cysco

        yes and no. That offense is ridiculous, but their defense is a hot mess.

    • cha

      They can’t free up much 2017 Romo cap money. They’re mostly stuck with it. There’s $19.6m in dead money for 2017, so if they do find a trade partner or cut him, the net benefit is about $5m, which I suppose is still a benefit but not a windfall.

      I would think with Romo’s injury history and averaging about $20m a year on his contract through 2019, Dallas wouldn’t get much in a trade. But then Philly got a first round pick for Sam Bradford, so who knows?

      I think they could designate him a post-June 1 cut and reduce the 2017 hit but there still would be a chunk of money against the cap in 2018. If anybody has a link or numbers on that it would be interesting to know.

      • cha

        I suppose a similar scenario to what you posted Cysco but more likely is the Cowboys sucker a team into giving a good 2017 pick or picks in trade, then draft a defensive player who has an immediate impact on the other side of that ball.

        They would be very OK with eating $19.6m of dead money in that scenario.

    • Ishmael

      If Jaylon Smith gets going as well… Man, that’d be an incredible draft.

  9. nichansen01

    Sorry but Fournette is not going to go in round 1. Constantly injured or ineffective. Yes he has a good skill set and has had good games, but he’s not consistent. He’s not as good as Elliot all around.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Steamin’ hot take here, y’all.

      Just kidding Nic. I think Fournette’s size, athleticism and violent style projects better to the NFL than any back this decade.

    • Kenny Sloth

      The injuries are a concern, but it seems like more of a precaution. He hasn’t had three acls and a broken collarbone, y’know

    • Rob Staton

      People are really trying too hard to find reasons not to love Fournette.

      • Kenny Sloth

        And I thought I was off-base calling Matt Stafford an elite arm talent

        • Rob Staton

          You’re dead on with Stafford. Beautiful arm.

          The Fournette stuff though — it’s like people are on a mission to find ways to knock him. Myles Garrett has missed time this year too and has played through injuries — you never hear anyone mention that. Jabrill Peppers was forced to take a medical redshirt as a sophomore due to a serious injury.

          But yeah, Fournette’s been banged up and LSU are doing the right thing with him. So he’s now going to fall out of round one.


        • Volume12

          What back coming out hasn’t been hurt and/or had a season ending injury at one point during their career? McCaffrey? And a lot of that has to do with the fact that there’s built in rushing yards with Stanford’s system.

          Not Fournette, Chubb, Cook, Freeman, Perine, Gallman, Hood, Jamaal Williams, Joe Williams (not iniury related). Its just the nature of the position unfortunately.

          • Volume12

            LSU probably has the best back in CFB again next year with Derrious Guice. What a stud.

            • Kenny Sloth

              Oregon’s Brooks-James (?) has been running well in Freemans unfortunate absence.

      • Ishmael

        I’m surprised it doesn’t happen with more players to be honest. With such a huge amount of amateur scouting ‘experts’ the best way to stand out is to take contrary opinions on big players.

        Fournette’s had a dodgy ankle all year that’s clearly been hampering him. Ankles just take time to heal, even with all the PEDs that are available to these guys to speed the process up. And he’s kept playing on it, which really hasn’t given it the time and rest it badly needs to get right.

        There’s a couple of things in his game I’m not totally sold on, but if he lands in the right situation look out. The only way I see him falling out of the first round is if it’s a Jaylon Smith/Myles Jack situation.

    • RealRhino2

      Agree that he’s not as good as Elliott all around. That doesn’t mean Fournette won’t go in R1, though. I have my concerns about him as well, but he certainly has some exceptional qualities that a team would love to have.

      • Rob Staton

        Put Fournette on that Dallas team and let’s see if he’s not as good as Zeke. Both exceptional.

      • Kenny Sloth

        You know, I was not very high on Elliott before the draft. He’s proven he can play in this league, but Demarco Murray also seemed like the best back in the league behind almost that same line. It might even be better now.

        He’s also got Dak Prescott taking away a man on the endless read option runs.

        You can’t detract from a player doing what he’s doing, but I think Fournette would lead the league in rushing on that team.

        • nichansen01

          Elliot has a pass catching ability that Fournette doesn’t have.

          Guice > Fournette.

          Seattle fans have seen this first hand with Rawls and Prosise- The bet ability is availability. That’s part of the reason why Lynch was so special and why Wilson is so special.

          Fournette is not durable.

          • Rob Staton

            why aren’t you making the same points about the injuries suffered by Myles Garrett and Julius Peppers?

            You look awfully like you’re trying really hard to provide a ‘hot take’.

        • nichansen01

          Prescott is only good beacause Elliot! Elliot is only good because of the line! Elliot is only good because Prescott!

          Last year- Matt Cassell is only good because of the line! Oh wait no one said that because Cassell was horrible. Same with McFadden. The Cowboys were 4-12 last year with a great line.

          Dallas’s success on offense isn’t about one part carrying another part. Prescott is really good. Elliot is really good. The line is really good. End of discussion.

          • Kenny Sloth

            “Prescott is only good beacause Elliot! Elliot is only good because of the line! Elliot is only good because Prescott!”

            Not even close. That’s just not how it works.

            And kind of derails your argument that Elliott>Fournette

            Do I necessarily think Fournette is going to come into the NFL and do what Zeke has? Not really. But 1,200 yards and 10+ scores isn’t farfetched.

            He could also get hurt, but so could Zeke. There’s no reason to label him injury prone.

            • nichansen01


              • Kenny Sloth

                Sorry I read that and couldn’t see anything else. I mean. I said you can’t pin one players success on the pieces surrounding him.

                But you can also LITERALLY SEE one guy not playing Elliott because opposing defenses have to repspect the read option. Something that was obviously not a weapon last year.

                What does Dallas’ record last year have to do with Fournette’s draft stock.

                We were almost onto something, don’t give up just because I couldn’t sift through the sardonicisms.

                • Volume12

                  Dak is good, but not playing well. He’s playing at a semi high level. If, and its a big if, a defense shuts down Zeke, I wanna see Dak put that team on his back and carry them to a win because I’m not so sure he can.

                  Matt Cassell is absolutely awful, but was also asked to do more with less.

                  And I’m not taking anything away from him Dak. Just because a player is good and not great doesn’t mean their bad or can’t have success.

                  • Kenny Sloth

                    And football is a lot about how far you can take it.

                    Especially at the QB spot.

                    I think Fournette can go far and will only get better with age and technical refinement.

                  • Volume12

                    And the thing with Dak is this.

                    A lot of people missed on him in regards to his eval. If you were to watch him again, same thing. That’s what worries me about Dak.

  10. Kenny Sloth

    Rob, we’re gonna rocket you up that huddle report 5 year ranking this season (currently about 48th having only participated 4/5 previous).

  11. Kenny Sloth

    Charlie Strong please come coach the ducks, please, thank you, the State of Oregon

  12. Kenny Sloth

    Man, this LSU team across the board really knows how to stiff arm.

    • Volume12

      I like that team. Coach O just got himself a job somewhere.

      S Jamal Adams is the real deal. Looks like a top 10 pick to me. His coverage skills on A&M WR Christian Kirk were impressive. Plus he’s a STs standout and seems to one of the alpha males on that team.

      • Kenny Sloth

        So. Many. Safeties.

  13. CharlieTheUnicorn

    Someone mentioned something kind of interesting earlier.

    The Seahawks and the Cowboys are the opposite and the same. A yin and yang thing.
    Each decided to spend big money and draft picks on one side of the ball and become elite (rush D or Rush O). The interesting part is that the Dallas Offense and the Seattle Defense also mirror each other in another fascinating way, they run very simple schemes and concepts. “You know where we are going to line up, beat us”. They take the talent, mold it with basic information, then they let it perform at a high level. This is contrary to many teams around the NFL with a bazillion schemes/concepts/rules etc. Perhaps this makes the game a bit too complicated for younger players, so certain teams are never ever able to execute at a high level.

    Just thought this was something worth thinking about when you watch NFL games Sunday.

    • Volume12

      It’s a good point, very true, and a great observation.

    • Kenny Sloth

      Big difference is we have the personnel to get hot on our inexpensive side of the ball. And consistently have, historically

      • Trevor

        I agree Kenny and that is why what I fear most is a bad weather game against Dallas were our offense is neutralized like Minn last year. In that type of situation Dallas run game becomes a huge advantage. I think I am the only Hawks fan who does not want home field as a result.

        • Kenny Sloth

          I take us in the rain every day of the week that ends in a Y

          • Volume12

            RW struggles in the rain man.

    • Sea Mode

      Right on.

  14. Volume12

    Does Justin Britt play this week or do they go with Joey Hunt?

    I originally thought that Thursday nighter against LA coming off a short week on the road against GB was the trap game on our schedule this year, but it appears this weekend with the injuries might be the trap game instead.

    • Trevor

      Would love to see Britt make it given all the other injuries and the way the OL is starting to gel. On the flip side it will be nice to see if they have a true NFL backup in Hunt.

      I agree Vol given all the injuries this is a scary game. Seems like whenever the Hawks and Wilson in particular face the most adversity they play their best. I think is will be ugly but I see a 27-24 or 35-27 type win.

    • Coleslaw

      Before the season I wrote up a bunch of predictions and I had us going 13-3, loss go ARI (tie) loss to TB and loss to Rams (Later) TH is a tough team on the rise. Very underrated talent willpower and leadership on that roster. It’ll be a battle with the injuries we have

    • C-Dog

      Honestly, I’m a bit more concerned about what happens when the Bucs has the ball than when Seattle has the ball. What they did last week, and a few times this year, is brilliantly eat up clock on long scoring drives, kinda what the Saints and other offenses did against our D.

      Tampa’s D doesn’t really terrify me, they got a Great player in McCoy, who could definitely give Hunt some fits, but Hunt’s strength is pass pro, and they have a terrific LB.

      IMO, I don’t know if this is the trap game everyone thinks it is. Yes, we are without Earl, Shead, Mike B, etc.. maybe without our starting center, but I kinda think with Kam back, that’s a huge benefit to the defense in terms his ability to orchestrate and set the tone. If he gets his guys lined up right and playing assignment sound ball, and offensively RW and co keep doing their recent magic, TB kicks field goals and Seattle score touchdowns and wins this game.

      • Volume12

        Seattle has only declared 4 guy out.

        Pope, Prosise, Bennett, and Coyle.

        ET listed as doubtful.

        Britt and Shead are questionable.

  15. Trevor

    As it looks right now the top 4 teams are clearly the Hawks, Cowboys, Pats and Raiders.

    Sea vs Dal and Oak vs NE would make for must see TV on Division Championship weekend!

    • Volume12


      If its a NE vs Dallas SB, count me out. Won’t be watching that one. I hardly watched last years brutally boring game.

  16. John T

    Toledo RB Kareem Hunt,20 rushes for 200y and 3 rec. for 73y on W. Michigan. I know the knock on him about no second gear, gets caught from behind and such. However 760 carries and hasn’t turned the ball over once, squats 500 pounds, 240 rushes for 1355 and 8 TDs this year. Runs into and through contact and wont run out of bounds. I love this kid for a later round option this draft.

    He’s 6 foot 1 and 225.
    760 carries for 4825 with 42 TDs and 71 rec. for 529 with 1 TD career.

    A couple runs from Fridays game.

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