The encore (aka harsh realities and home truths part II)

I had a few more thoughts I wanted to get into today, as a follow up to yesterday’s piece looking at harsh realities and home truths.

Do the Seahawks have a NFC West problem?

In their last four divisional games, the Seahawks are 0-4. Since the 2015 season, they’re 16-14-1.

Maybe this is merely an indication of how competitive the division is? Yet the Rams went 6-0 in the NFC West in 2018 and the 49ers were 5-1 a year ago (and were a botched kick away from 6-0).

The Seahawks are 1-4 in their last five games against the Rams (and would’ve been 0-5 but for a missed field goal). In those five games LA scored 42, 33, 36, 29 and 28 points.

Here’s the total offensive yardage conceded in each game by Seattle:

2017 (H) — 352
2018 (A) — 468
2018 (H) — 456
2019 (H) — 477
2019 (A) — 455

They’re now 1-2 against Kliff Kingsbury in Arizona. They competed well against the 49ers in Santa Clara last year but put up little resistance on defense in the final game of the regular season. They also toiled against Kyle Shanahan when he was in Atlanta and dropped a game quarterbacked by Nick Mullens in 2018.

So far they’ve seemed incapable of working out a way to deal with the McVay and Shanahan offenses and the early signs are they’re going to have the same problem with Kyler Murray.

Here’s an inconvenient truth — McVay and Shanahan have elevated teams led by weaker quarterbacks (Goff, Garoppolo) to the Super Bowl. The Seahawks have a legendary quarterback and haven’t gotten close in recent years.

Heck — they’ve only won the division once in five years.

I don’t think it’s exaggerating to say this could be the biggest game of the season on Sunday. Lose and drop to 0-2 in the NFC West with two games still to come against the Rams and the Seahawks will already be in a critical state.

My concern going into this season was that it could be a repeat of what we saw a year ago despite the massive investment in terms of money and picks. Let’s not forget — they were 5-2 last year, finished 11-5 and had a predictable early playoff exit.

Coaching matters

Yesterday I mentioned the untidy nature of Seattle’s play and how it deserves more consideration than a glib ‘suck it up’ from Pete Carroll.

Throughout the Carroll era, the Seahawks have played fast and loose. They have a knack of keeping inferior opponents alive in games. When’s the last time they handled a winning team like the Rams did to the Bears last night? Or like the 49ers did to the Rams the previous week?

The Seahawks seem to play in chaos all the time. To be fair, they have won more games than they have lost (although arguably that’s a review of the quarterback more than anything else).

Meanwhile the thing that guides the likes of the Rams and 49ers is their ability to stay on track. The execution of a well-oiled offensive machine. They don’t want to make games chaotic. They want to dictate the flow of a game with their own style, which is often on-point.

Look at the coaching pairings in the last few Super Bowls. Shanahan and Andy Reid. McVay and Bill Belichick. Doug Pederson and Frank Reich against Belichick. Shanahan (the real positive for Atlanta) and Belichick.

None of this group play in chaos. They all have a very clear vision of what they are and they execute more often than not.

As noted yesterday, Seattle’s untidy nature often leads to getting blown away in the first half of important playoff games. They aren’t a four quarter football team and they no longer have the complete roster to excel despite that.

It’s a problem. Their inability to play conventional football is an issue. They are too streaky. There are too many moments like Benson Mayowa’s bonehead penalty against Arizona. There are too many fast starts and slow finishes or vice versa.

Carroll needs to embrace the need to clean things up.

There’s also a limitation which is problematic

The only response given to questions about the defense at the moment is to suggest they’ll ‘keep going’ or that they need to ‘help out’ the players a bit more.

The reality seems to be that they’ve tried everything already.

They started the year among the highest blitzers in the league and got torched — giving up more explosive plays than any other team in the NFL.

Since then they’ve resorted to being more conservative and they just cannot create any pressure — exposing the second and third level.

The Seahawks don’t have the players they need to run their scheme. It’s incredible that they allowed this to happen. They need to be able to create pressure with four. It’s as simple as that.

Using two first round picks on Jamal Adams was a classic case of putting the cart before the horse. They now have a hugely expensive safety, who might absorb a $20m contract in the future, who is going to presumably come back in and be asked to be the designated pass rusher again.

They’re just so limited in what they can do.

It was also scarily stark how the offense had run out of ideas at the end of the Arizona game. Watching it back — they simply had no answer for Arizona’s switch-up where they showed heavy blitzing and man coverage but masked where the pressure, and how much, was actually coming.

Seattle had a half to work out a solution and failed. By overtime the offense could barely function. Wilson looked lost. Nobody really knew what to do and that’s why you started seeing things like a pitch to Carlos Hyde or a play, highlighted by Chris Collinsworth, where nobody ran a route and Wilson just threw it out of bounds.

The whole offense was discombobulated and couldn’t function. Wilson’s ridiculous interceptions didn’t help. Yet it was amazing how they didn’t have any answers to the questions posed by Arizona after racking up 375 yards in the first half.

And why on earth where they not able at any point in the game to isolate a favourable matchup for D.K. Metcalf? Why did it take until the dying stages of overtime to throw him a screen pass? Do something, anything, to get the ball in his hands. It’s not acceptable to go through a whole game with him sidelined or uninvolved.

The missed tackles are back

Seattle started the year second only to New England for fewest missed tackles. Now they’re up to 50 for the season which is the 13th highest. They are climbing the table and if they have another game like they did against Arizona — where I think they had 13 missed tackles — they’ll soon be back near the top (just as they were in 2019).

Parsing Carroll on Darrell Taylor

For the second time in a week Taylor’s name was mentioned in terms of coming back and then immediately it was noted that he’s not even changing direction when he’s running.

I suspect there’s a hidden meaning behind all of this.

Here’s my hunch. The Seahawks realised that free agency didn’t exactly ‘fix’ anything in terms of the pass rush and therefore they set out to identify a player in the draft.

It wasn’t a deep edge rush class but they decided that Taylor was their man. They thought about taking him with the top pick but decided to bide their time and then move up in round two. They got the player they wanted and I think the hope was that he could contribute quickly to make up for the lack of action in free agency.

The problem is he’d been injured for months. He’d missed the Senior Bowl and combine. There were no proper medical checks this year due to coronavirus.

The Seahawks rolled the dice and took an expensive chance.

When Carroll refers to him now, I suspect it’s not with any belief that he’ll contribute this year. I think he’s revealing what their plan was. And really, he’s at such a loose end to find an answer to the glaring defensive problem — he’s now in a roundabout way talking about the hope that failed to be.

Of course they should never have put themselves in a position to be relying on an injured rookie for pass rush. Yet that’s where they ended up and unsurprisingly it hasn’t worked. It was a poor, desperate plan that has backfired.

So now all Carroll can do is long for what could’ve been and talk about ‘making a turn’ or ‘getting better’ or healthier. The problem is Jamal Adams or Snacks Harrison are not fixing your pass rush. They aren’t enabling you to rush with four.

Why are the Seahawks so bad on third down?

They have an elite quarterback, a variety of dynamic weapons, huge depth at tight end.

Yet they are currently ranked 31st in the NFL for third down conversion (33.90%). The only team with a worse rate is the winless New York Jets.

That’s incredible and warrants challenging.

Further thoughts on the trade deadline

I stand by what I said yesterday. I don’t think an ageing pass rusher alone is going to fix this defense.

That said — that doesn’t mean the Seahawks shouldn’t try.

If you don’t add anyone before the deadline, you’re rolling with what you’ve got which isn’t good enough.

Making a trade for Everson Griffen or Carlos Dunlap or Ryan Kerrigan might not solve all the problems. It’s better than doing nothing though.

I want to see a return of the pro-active Seahawks who are doing whatever they can to fix a problem. I hope I’m not alone in saying I’m tired of waiting for this team to put itself in position to properly compete for a Super Bowl again. I don’t want to waste Wilson’s prime years. In 10 years time I don’t want to look back on this period wondering what could’ve been if only they’d had the nouse to not create a defense that is a total and utter liability.

If that means being more aggressive than they’d be prefer to be, I wouldn’t criticise them for that. Maybe they have to be prepared to try and recoup stock in the off-season by trading some of their own players?

I don’t expect any trades, however. I suspect after the Jamal Adams deal they will be reluctant to part with further picks for rental situations. Any prospective move will have to be very, very cheap in terms of compensation. So unless anyone’s dangling a proven pass rusher for a sixth or seventh round pick — I’m not sure there’ll be any action.

I just hope that if this season ends up being a repeat of the last few years, that someone at some point between now and February will ask what on earth happened to their stated goal of fixing the pass rush and how they ended up with this shambles?

Everson Griffen has been traded to the Lions

For a mere conditional sixth round pick.

As noted above — I just don’t think the Seahawks are going to do anything before the deadline.

But at least they’re getting value for the $10-11m spent on Greg Olsen and Jacob Hollister (190 yards and two touchdowns). Not to mention the $10m they spent on Bruce Irvin (injured) and Benson Mayowa (ranked #99 out of 111 pass rushers per PFF) is also going to good use. Plus the $9.35m Jarran Reed (#80 out of 119 defensive tackle) is costing this year. B.J. Finney is delivering a top notch service for the $8m committed to him over the next two years. And at least that $4.2m they spent so they could tag Joey Hunt and Branden Jackson wasn’t needed in March.

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  1. BobbyK

    For my own sanity, I need them to trade for a pass rusher. Even if it’s a singular Griffen trade. I don’t expect Kyler Fackrell because I don’t think they’re that smart. But I need some type of hope things will get better. Running the same garbage out there rushing from the EGDE is demoralizing.

  2. Big Mike

    Searching for something you’ve written to disagree with……………still searching…….nope, I got nothin’.

    I will say the references to Taylor are indeed Pete’s way of letting us know what the “plan” was this offseason. I also believe, as I posted yesterday, it’s also Pete preparing the reasoning for the end of season press conference in mid-January when he’s asked about his assessment of their offseason priority of adding pass rush. You could even call it preparing an “excuse” now couldn’t you? Bottom line, if depending on a rookie draft choice with an injury history to be a large part of your pass “rush”, is a plan, you’ve got no plan imo.

    • BobbyK

      I can understand if their “plan” was to depend on a top-5 pick (a Bosa, for example) to add life into their pass rush, but depending on a guy with injuries who isn’t even an early second round pick? That’s irresponsible and unforgivable.

      • Big Mike

        Well said

  3. JLemere

    It sounds like we need a fresh start in terms of offense and defense ideology. The question is then is PC willing to make changes, like have Schotty or a new OC to take over all offense responsibilities and changing or modifying the 4-3 cover 3 defense. Another way of asking the question is can PC relinquish some of the power that he has had in SEA for the past decade?

    • Rob Staton

      The schemes aren’t the problem. It’s the personnel and the need to tidy things up.

      • JLemere

        Part of it is his ideology. He basically told everyone throughout the offseason that the secondary and linebackers are more important than the front four even though it’s the front four that makes the defense function. The Legion of Boom reached their peak once they signed Bennett and Avril and the divisional game against ATL in 2012 proves that point.

        • Rob Staton

          He didn’t tell anyone that — they simply did a crap job on the DL.

          • JLemere

            Yes he did, he just did with numbers not words

            Secondary Cap Hit- 19,476,360 M (that number will go up when Adams, Diggs, and either Griffin/Dunbar get contract extensions, which I will predict will be roughly 30 to 35 million)
            Linebacker Cap Hit- 34,537,666 M (Wagner’s cap hit will increase 17 mil next year and 20 mil the following year and if the coaching staff doesn’t trust Brooks to be a starter, then they will need to find starters at SAM and WILL)
            D-Line Cap Hit- 20,802,549 M (Reed’s cap hit will go to roughly 13.5 m and that’s a huge overpayment for a run stuffer)

            • Rob Staton

              I’m not going to repeat and re-run everything I’ve written over the last eight months.

              But no — those spending numbers tell about 1% of the story of how this defense came to be.

            • dcd2

              Whether it was a crap job or putting too much focus on the back 7, it is an unmitigated disaster.

              Clowney was botched. The rest of FA passed us by. Adams was a ridiculous overpay, that hamstrung us in terms of adding anything else via trade, and mortgaged future drafts.

              My god, to think we could have had Calais and Ngakoue for a 2nd & 4th, but instead chose to upgrade our SS from Macdougald to Adams for a 1,1,3 instead. Now we are talking about our best hope to do ANYTHING to help this DL is to trade for a guy (EG) we could have simply signed for as a FA two months ago.

              • Rob Staton

                My god, to think we could have had Calais and Ngakoue for a 2nd & 4th, but instead chose to upgrade our SS from Macdougald to Adams for a 1,1,3 instead. Now we are talking about our best hope to do ANYTHING to help this DL is to trade for a guy (EG) we could have simply signed for as a FA two months ago.

                Bloody hell. What the hell were they doing this year?

                And nobody ever asks about it.

                Nobody cares.

                • All I see is 12s

                  I don’t know about you, but I find myself unreasonably mad when I think about what could happen compared to what we actually did. Especially in light of the actual product we got.
                  I remember so well 2011 Listening to Seattle sports radio question the wisdom of Schneider and Pete Carroll- asking what the hell were they doing?
                  Back then they were the smartest kids in the room. But it seems like they’re still trying to use the same philosophy that worked for them 10 years ago but the league is observed and adapted and we have not.

                • Pearedu

                  Rob , these Seattle reporters are trash , all they dare to ask is covid protocol questions or presidential election stuff, nobody asks the real FOOTBALL questions (the off season personnel decisions). Trades and extensions included. Also all the investment in linebackers ignoring Dline just as in 2015-2018 they ignored the Oline. Feels like a bloody pendulum where they are overcompensating for their mistakes.

                  YOU NEED to be there in Seattle media asking the questions that NEED to be asked during press conferences.

                  Cheers from Argentina

      • Lukas

        I don‘t think Pete will ever change his Cover 3 scheme, but just from an interest point: is there any scheme that would fit our current defense better and could make up for our bad Dline?

  4. John

    Sadly I think it will take Seattle missing the playoffs for anything to be done. Pete Carroll contract is up in two seasons and if this team keeps heading in this trajectory I would find it hard for Seattle to re-sign him.

    • John

      I really hope Pete Carroll doesn’t become a Bill O’Brian 2.0. We already gave up lots of draft capital now all we need I a desperation Trade to acquire capital back.

      • Jordan E

        Pete has messed up this offseason and the defense is a joke but he’s still way better than B.O.B. lol. If he trades Lockett or like D.K. for a second and then an aging washed RB then he’ll be at B.O.B. level. Or like trades Lockett or Shaquill or something (if he holds out next year) for a 3rd after completely failing negotiations.

        I think trading for capital is not a good idea, especially if we are trying to maximize the window. As Rob said, we have to be even more aggressive this year and try to capitalize on the window. We need a pass rusher and then another offensive weapon. Hopefully Pete and JS actually make a trade.

  5. Rob Staton

    If Tom Brady leaps ahead of Wilson in the MVP — Wilson is going to be seriously pissed off.

    • Rob Staton

      Saw my first national TV discussion on Wilson’s MVP frontrunner status being under threat.

      New it would happen after the other night.

      You can’t blow games like that on prime time.

      • Big Mike

        He shit the bed in the 2nd half. Not exactly a huge surprise here.

      • Gohawks5151

        I get it if he is mad but those 3 picks were ugly. MVP’s are won on stats and ironically the team record so he can be mad if the D keeps losing him games but he controls his own destiny as well. Throwing the pick that leads to the short field and game winner in primetime sticks out. I also think he is a little entitled. He is the face of the franchise and calling a lot of the shots. He has a lot of media connections and a podcast that make sure he is staying in the media’s mind more than in the past. But if you are going to put yourself out there, voice your opinion through media and make it known you want a controversial player you are going to have to take that heat when it doesn’t go your way.

      • cha

        It’s strange that for all the talk the last year or two about RW’s mental focus and staying neutral, he sure looked rattled in this game. He took a hit late in the game and it took him a second to get up. I think the two blown timeouts earlier in the game really cost them. If they had a TO available, he could’ve used it to just take a deep breath and think through a couple of the next plays a little bit more slowly. PC wasn’t wrong, RW had options and he obviously chose runs by Hyde. That doesn’t sound like him. He always wants the ball when the game is on the line.

        • Chris

          I saw the one hit at the line where he was looking for a ref to throw a flag for a hit to the head. Made me wonder if his bell was rung. He never seemed the same after that hit.

          • cha


            Alternate but much less plausible theory: There was some distraction going on this week due to AB.

            RW channeled his disappointment/frustration into aggression and came out absolutely spitting fire in the first half and wore himself out.

    • Jordan E

      Part of me hopes he does (at least before the trade deadline). That way, Wilson may push for the team making a trade for a pass rusher or WR.

  6. cha

    I thought it was very interesting yesterday when PC jumped on the hand grenade when questioned about the defense. ‘It’s not just Norton I’m right in the thick of it’ and then when questioned about the 4 Carlos Hyde plays when they needed a first down said RW had options and chose the runs.

    • Big Mike

      Throwing Russ under the bus like with the AB situation?

      • DancingBuddha

        Russ threw himself under the bus by deciding to go on a sermon about how Antonio Brown raping women was a phase in his life we should forgive

        • DancingBuddha

          allegedly, I mean, lets put the disclaimer in there too, why not.

  7. cha

    Ian Rapoport
    Source: The #Ravens are signing WR Dez Bryant to the practice squad. Officially back.

    8:54 AM · Oct 27, 2020

  8. Chase

    I am jealous of the ravens off-season.

    • Big Mike

      I am too but that feeling has nothing to do with the signing of Dez Bryant

      • Chase


  9. 12th chuck

    NFL insider Josina Anderson explained that Griffen has not been notified that he is being shopped. what does this mean??? is there a deal in the works?

    • Big Mike

      It may just mean josina is an attention whore

    • Rob Staton

      It probably just means Dallas aren’t consulting with the player about their intentions.

      But nevertheless, it’s great to hear Josina’s phone is getting some use.

      • Big Mike

        I’ve got a great line in response to that but guessing we need to stay in the PG zone so I’ll just let it go. 🙂

  10. Jonas Andersen

    I think we can all agree on Bobby Wagner having a legendary status in Seattle. But watching him last year, and especially this year, I wonder what we might be able to get for him in a trade. It just seems as perfect timing to gain some picks and create cap space. But then again, I would rather have 0 picks next year, than watching Barton playing anymore.

    • Ty the Guy

      Nope. Disagree.

    • Big Mike

      Unlikely anyone would be willing to take on his cap hit.

  11. Gohawks5151

    Watch the first 2 offensive drives by San Fran in the Niners-Pats game. It’s beautiful. Fly motion Deebo, fake outside zone, throw to Deebo in space for easy money. Quick screen to Deebo. Fake quick screen to Bourne, Kittle releases in the seam. I do think scheme is part of the issue for Seattle. Seattle does not give Russell any easy throws. I complain every game that DK needs 3 quick screens a game partly because its a mismatch, but also because its an easy throw and good vs pressure. The DB is also 7-10 yards off DK evry play. Throw the hitch. Where did all the screens go from the first 2 games? If they are going to bring pressure, counter with screen or draw. Not just on third and long but how about on 2nd and short when people usually bring pressure. This is high school stuff man. I thought they were saving some plays out of the 2 tight end sets but I’m not sure now. All the check-release stuff is still effective and the alignment helps curtail the pressure too. I’m not calling for Schotty’s head or anything but I’m not sure he is maximizing his assets. I just don’t see how Russ-Carson-DK-Lockett-Olsen/Dissly is anything but the best personnel in the division.

  12. John

    I really wonder how seattle will address the pass rush this year,with a lack of draft picks and cap space.

    • Rob Staton

      Unfortunately, they quite possibly won’t address it.

      And we’ll spend another off-season talking about the same exact things we have for the previous two years.

      • hawkfanforetenity

        It doesn’t feel like there are going to be that many options. It almost feels easier to find an upper echelon QB than it does an upper echelon pass rusher.

      • BC_Hawk

        Unfortunately, I have to agree with you Rob. McDowell started this slide, and it has only been compounded by poor decisions since. I loved the Clark trade; thought it was like the niners swapping Buckner for Kinlaw. Though not ideal, something one has to do to remain competitive in a salary cap world. But, not replacing him this off season with the pick nor utilizing FA to fill the void, while getting the draft capital is just assign.

        Alas, I am left to dream about what a Clark and Clowney tandem would have looked like last year 🙁

        • pdway

          I liked the Clark trade at the time too – felt like at $20M+/yr his price tag was too high – and the return we got seemed really strong, and very needed.

          It’s a lesson learned in hindsight – b/c pass rushers are both incredibly important and very hard to find – and if for a team that never has top-10 draft picks, if you get lucky enough to find one outside of that draft range – you got to pay him.

          • Chris

            Other than saving some cap money, what did we really get from the Clark trade? Cap money doesn’t really matter; you can always find ways to pay stars. 20/20 hindsight has me wishing we hadn’t made the trade.

            • Rob Staton

              It’s blatantly obvious they shouldn’t have made the trade at this point.

              Clark was expensive but they traded away a 13-sack player in 2018 and haven’t come close to replacing that production since.

              Kansas City play complementary defense with Clark, Chris Jones and Tyrann Mathieu and not a lot else. Seattle needed to build around Clark not move him away. They created a hole and that’s fine if you fill it. They didn’t, emphatically, and didn’t make much of the picks they got in return.

      • Robert

        Our only hope for a pass rush next year is that Collier lives up to his 1st round pick, and that Taylor turns out to be the playmaker Seattle gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for to move up in the draft, and that Robinson is a good rotational piece. We should also keep our 2nd rounder for next year to get another defensive lineman.

        • Rob Staton

          “Our only hope for a pass rush next year is that Collier lives up to his 1st round pick”

          That aint happening.

          We can clearly see he had no business going in R1. Not good enough.

          • Big Mike

            100% concur.

            • SeaTown

              He’s a stiff. I didn’t even realize he played the other night. Never heard his name called, never saw him do anything significant. terrible waste of a draft pick.

              • Hawkdawg

                Great play at the goal-line to stop Cam. But that’s all I got.

          • Robert

            It was a horrible pick. We should have not traded back and should have selected Montez Sweat. He had 7 sacks last year.

            • BobbyK

              I agree. Sweat would have been the better pick in hindsight. However, I won’t criticize them for that because I thought his heart condition was legit. They had already taken a guy a number of years prior to never played in the NFL due to a heart condition. I can see why they passed on him. But I know some of you really, really wanted him and it turned out that would have been the way to go.

      • Chris Alexander

        Aw, c’mon. LJ and Alton Robinson and Poona Ford (etc.) will all have another full year of experience under their belts. Why would we need to sign anyone during the offseason? And, Taylor should be ready to play next year so that’s like getting an “extra” draft pick.

        (complete sarcasm, obviously)

  13. Rob4q

    Would this do it:

    Trade Finney + 2022 4th to Dallas for Griffen + 2022 6th
    Dallas moves Griffen, gets a serviceable C and upgrades a draft pick
    Seattle gets a pass rusher, moves Finney’s contract and still holds onto a 2022 pick

    Trade 2021 6th to NY Giants for Fackrell
    Giants add another pick while Seattle adds a pass rush option

    Trade Hollister + 2022 5th to Cincy for Dunlap + 2021 6th
    Cincy moves Dunlap for a move TE that could help Burrows right away and draft picks are a wash
    Seattle adds another pass rusher, opens a spot for Parkinson to get play time and swaps a 2022 pick for a 2021 pick to help next year

    Sign DE Quinton Bell to the PS, just released by TB. Small school WR to DE convert with pass rushing skills to be developed

    Sign CJ Prosise to the PS as RB depth…I know, I know but he knows the system and was just released by the Texans

    • TomLPDX

      The Prosise moves sounds plausible. For the Dallas move, make it a 5th rounder

      • Rob4q

        He should be added to the PS any time now…lol!

        I would love to see them get creative in moving some contracts like Finney and Hollister and adding to the defense. And without losing much as far as draft picks either. There seems to be plenty of mid tier pass rushers available…

        And adding a RB to the PS seems like a no brainer right now!

    • Scot04

      I think a Takkarist Mckinley fits the speed and length the Seahawks prefer. Possibly a 2022 6th. Plus he’s only 24. Then see if you can get Quinnen Willarms for our 2021 2nd straight up. Two young players who will help the Pass Rush. Plus Williams is also a good run defender. I don’t see us drafting a better player with our 2nd, and we could create cap room to fit both. They are also players who are still young will upside.
      Prosise to practice squad.
      Trade a couple of our depth pieces for draft capital.

      • Rob4q

        Yeah, Mckinley would be another option and is younger but certainly less proven…

      • Ukhawk

        My perfect scenario – McKinley and Williams. Believe QW will cost more than a 2nd but worth it.

        Unfortunately don’t see JSPS going for broke so only a late rounder for a vet more likely.

        • TomLPDX

          Wouldn’t that be amazing if we actually got those 2 guys though.

          • Rob Staton

            Think there’s more chance of signing Cheech & Chong.

            • Big Mike

              Smokin’ idea

              Get it? Smokin’

              I’ll show myself the door now.

  14. pdway

    I don’t think there’s much argument to be made re the failure to address the pass rush this off-season – it’s an own goal, a fumble, we all know it. I still think they put their eggs in the Clowney basket, and had no viable plan B when it didn’t happen, and that’s a fail – full-stop.

    That said – i’ll push back on the thrust of your article in a couple places –

    – it is HARD to stay competitive w a post-SB team; the Rams went 6-0 against the NFC West in ’18 and went to the SB, the next year, they went 3-3 in division and missed the playoffs; Niners made the SB in ’12, lost to us in NFC champ game in ’13, and then went into a tailspin in the 5 yrs after that (8-8, 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, 4-12) — we’ve avoided that in the PC era, and that shouldn’t just be taken for granted.

    – the NFC West is really good – everyone has their struggles against it – it’s not just the Hawks; it is generally recognized as the best division in the league, and I think dominating the NFC West on a yearly basis is a pretty tough mark to hit;

    – I take your point that we find ourselves stuck in the sort of upper-middle class of the NFL – though at least w/r/t last year – if we don’t get that unusual rash of injuries bunched up at the end of the year (esp carson/penny), you could make a reasonable argument that week 17 result and/or the round 2 playoff result may have been different.

    Anyway, a good read – and good q’s to ask. It’s tough for me to watch this D too.

    • Rob Staton

      “it is HARD to stay competitive w a post-SB team; the Rams went 6-0 against the NFC West in ’18 and went to the SB, the next year, they went 3-3 in division and missed the playoffs; Niners made the SB in ’12, lost to us in NFC champ game in ’13, and then went into a tailspin in the 5 yrs after that (8-8, 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, 4-12) — we’ve avoided that in the PC era, and that shouldn’t just be taken for granted.”

      You seem to be arguing something I haven’t brought up here. Nobody would argue it isn’t difficult to avoid a Super Bowl hangover. But that’s an irrelevant point today, six years after their last SB season, and I don’t see anyone taking that for granted. So not sure why you’ve mentioned that.

      “the NFC West is really good – everyone has their struggles against it – it’s not just the Hawks; it is generally recognized as the best division in the league, and I think dominating the NFC West on a yearly basis is a pretty tough mark to hit;”

      I didn’t say anything about dominating it on a yearly basis. I pointed out they are basically .500 in the division since 2015, have only one it once since then and appear to have great difficulty matching up with the three other teams (more so than they have matching up with Seattle). At no point did I say anything about dominating the division every year.

      “I take your point that we find ourselves stuck in the sort of upper-middle class of the NFL – though at least w/r/t last year – if we don’t get that unusual rash of injuries bunched up at the end of the year (esp carson/penny), you could make a reasonable argument that week 17 result and/or the round 2 playoff result may have been different.”

      I never made any reference about being stuck in the upper-middle class of the NFL in the piece so I’m not sure why you’re agreeing with a point I didn’t make. Yes, the injuries had an impact at the end of the season but they didn’t when they had their arses kicked by New Orleans, Baltimore and LA earlier in the year. The Seahawks never felt like a true SB team last year.

      • pdway

        “it is HARD to stay competitive w a post-SB team; the Rams went 6-0 against the NFC West in ’18 and went to the SB, the next year, they went 3-3 in division and missed the playoffs; Niners made the SB in ’12, lost to us in NFC champ game in ’13, and then went into a tailspin in the 5 yrs after that (8-8, 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, 4-12) — we’ve avoided that in the PC era, and that shouldn’t just be taken for granted.”

        “You seem to be arguing something I haven’t brought up here. Nobody would argue it isn’t difficult to avoid a Super Bowl hangover. But that’s an irrelevant point today, six years after their last SB season, and I don’t see anyone taking that for granted. So not sure why you’ve mentioned that.”

        In your article, you talk about several that pre-date this year – i.e. our record against the NFC West over those years, our poor 1st performances, etc. And my point, on which it doesn’t look like we disagree, is that post-SB hangovers are real for a number of reasons (inflated value of players and coaches that leads to them leaving, hard to keep the hungry attitude going, etc). And my point is, that Carroll has done a good job of addressing those type of things post the NE SB loss.

        [Unrlelated question — how do you do that indent thing that you did in your point-by-point response above? It makes for a clearer response post, wondering if I can do it too?}

        • Rob Staton

          Sure but that was six years ago now since the last SB season. Even if you take away 2015 or 2016, the record in the division is still poor.

          I have access to the admin page and reply via there, with html tools.

  15. no frickin clue


    I agree 100% that the personnel plan since the end of last season has been a shambles. The biggest need went unfilled in March, again in the draft in May, and the vast majority of upcoming draft capital evaporated on a panic move to get Jamal Adams.

    The end of the Patriots and Vikings games could easily have gone in the wrong direction too, and so we were a hair’s breadth away from being 3-3 after six games and in the bottom of the NFC West.

    Maybe I’m projecting here, but I get the sense that you’re saying that the coaching staff (or, at least, Pete and Ken Norton Jr) seem incapable of matching the chess moves being made in-game by their divisional counterparts. Outclassed, almost.

    Do you think it’s time for fresh blood at head coach? At the GM level? Or do you think their history of winning seasons, the 2013 championship, the almost-championship in 2014, consistency of winning seasons, means they’ve earned the right for awhile to persevere?

    Sunday’s game left me gutted. Not because it’s a loss, but because of what it signifies about this team’s still-glaring weaknesses and dependencies. It’s like I’ve been watching a slow-motion train wreck despite repeated calls to move the train to a different track, and the conductor smiling at me and telling me everything’s fine!

    Thank you for everything you do at Seahawks Draft Blog.

    • Rob Staton

      “Do you think it’s time for fresh blood at head coach?”

      Possibly, yes.

      However — there is zero chance of that happening with ownership in a holding pattern. There’s also a distinct lack of obvious alternative candidates. I also still highly respect Carroll, the culture he has cultivated and the success he has had. But I think the Seahawks have made a dogs dinner of this reset, I think Russell Wilson masks a lot of major issues and I think PC is getting out-coached in the division by McVay and Shanahan.

      • Big Mike

        And possibly now Kingsbury?
        One thing’s for sure, the drafting overall is NOT good. Combine that with the fail of this last offseason and it feels very much like Pete has gotten over his skis. Combine that with a lack of draft capital and I think we’re not in a good place for the foreseeable future.

        I for one do think it’s time to move on from Pete. But several of us have said including Rob, it will not happen at least until Jody sells, whenever that is.

        • Big Mike

          And as for your Wilson comment, many, many people have said this around a 4-12 if Russ got hurt. That might be generous considering the state of the defense that’s on pace to be the worst in the history of the NFL.

          • SeaTown

            PC/JS have been on the downside for years. We can all see it. Sherman and Bennett both hinted years ago that PC’s message was stale. So they got rid of the payers and brought in inferior talent so the message would resonate. The problem is the players are inferior so PC’s message is meaningless. He’s worn out his welcome. I’ll always appreciate what he did for Seattle but his time has passed. This organization needs new blood. Unfortunately, that is not happening either. So… we are stuck.

            • Chris

              I think you’re completely wrong about PC and the culture he’s created. Players rave about Seattle when they come here. Adams said he wants to retire a Hawk. Same with Bruce Irvin. Where PC/JS have fumbled is in player acquisition, whether it be through the draft or trades.

              If you look at the drafts after 2012, they’ve been mediocre, most of the players replacement level. The stars are few: Lockett, Dickson, Clark and DK. Everyone else is either out of the league or underperforming their draft selection.

              Mgmt has also over paid for almost all the players they’ve traded for. Adams was an overpay, Clowney had the no franchise clause, Richardson was an overpay due to the McDowell draft bust. The only good trade was for Duane Brown; everything else was an overpay that stripped us of valuable draft picks.

        • dcd2

          Is the drafting, trading away of picks and FA signings a product of Pete or John?

          I would think those fall more on John, though I realize they both have a hand in it.

          • SeaTown

            PC signs off on everything.

      • Easy Answers Hard Choices

        Sound outlandish on the surface, but how about Chris Peterson after his “two year sabbatical” is finished? He kind of inferred that he was burnt out on college coaching (recruiting?). Or Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops? I don’t know enough to recall the track record of college-to-pro coaching transitions (other than PC and Jimmy Johnson) but given the haphazard way the Seahawks have been run the past few years and their dim prospects in the
        near future maybe some out-of-the-box thinking is needed.

        • Ben

          I put the Petersen odds of ever coaching again at about the same as a snowballs chance in hell.

      • John

        Prior to Pete Carroll’s recent extension when Seattle missed the playoffs wasn’t Paul Allen looking at Reich,Saban,Jon Gruden some others.

  16. Volume12

    Seattle needs some help at corner too. That might be as a big a need as a pass rusher beleive it or not.

    • Rob Staton

      The corner’s are playing like trash but it’s not in the same stratosphere as needing a pass rusher.

      • Volume12

        It’s not, but it might the move to make if they can’t find a pass rusher for the right price. So many good teams in need of a dynamic pass rusher.

        • Rob Staton

          Honestly, I don’t think a change at corner will make much difference this year.

          The pass rush is simply too bad. They’ve already made changes to the secondary and it’s made zero difference.

          • Volume12

            And I’m on the fence about that as well.

            • Rob4q

              Eli Apple just released by the Panthers…former NY Giants 1st round pick in 2016. Reclamation project?

              • TomLPDX

                He also failed in New Orleans

  17. millhouse-serbia

    I didnt realise we are this low in cap space…

    Last in whole league with 1.3mil…

    • dcd2

      Wow. That is stunning and depressing.

  18. cha

    “How’d he catch my a$s?! What the f*&^!”

    • Rob Staton

      I had a really, really, beautiful instant reaction post written for if the Seahawks won — based entirely around Metcalf chasing down Baker.


      • cha

        Is it gone forever? Can you give us a snippet? I like the way you write.

        • Rob Staton

          I’ll have a look.

          • Rob Staton

            It’s a play that’ll be replayed in front of every team in the country on Monday.

            It might expand to teams in other sports. Even Classrooms.

            “One of the plays of the year” as Chris Collinsworth put it.

            If D.K. Metcalf even needed a redemption moment after his gaffe on the goal line against Dallas — this was it.

            In a game that had 44 first-half points and 593 total yards, the first highlight NBC showed at half-time was a receiver sprinting the length of the field to chase down a defensive back.

            How often does that happen?

            That one play elevated Metcalf to a new level and he didn’t even have to catch a pass. It’s a play that can help define a man, a culture and a season.

            Russell Wilson threw one of the worst interceptions of his career just as the Seahawks were about to jump into a handsome lead. Metcalf prevented an improbable pick-six. A defense no doubt energised by that effort forced a turnover on downs. That set the table for a 97-yard, six-play scoring drive in just two minutes and 39 seconds.

            Wilson’s pick could’ve been a 14 point swing. Metcalf made it a moot point with one piece of brilliance. The speed, the effort, the grit.

            It was perfect.

            *Delete — the Seahawks blew a 10-point lead and lost, time for a re-write*

            • cha

              Great stuff. Fantastic.

              It just dawned on me. Is that the same end zone as…49?

            • Big Mike

              “If D.K. Metcalf even needed a redemption moment after his gaffe on the goal line against Dallas — this was it.”
              I was watching the game with a friend and the first thing I said to him after that play was “I forgive you for the screw up against Dallas DK”.

            • Cortez Kennedy

              To be fair, they blew multiple 10 point leads. Or at least it feels like they did.

      • Volume12

        What shoulda been 2 walk off tugs in a row

    • Pran

      a Lion chasing prey..

    • MikeMac

      I don’t comment often but like many I’m on here multiple times a day. I want to acknowledge how accurate the content is and how appreciative I am for all the hard work that must go in to this site. Truly a treasure. I so badly wanted to believe the start to the season was not a mirage but in my gut I knew what Rob was pointing out was impossible to ignore. Going back to the last few years and the drafts not being as productive as they once were, the lack of dominance at home and the defense being unrecognizable to those of the past. All this has made me wonder if the game has passed this teams leadership by. Reminds me of Jack Ramsey of the Portland Trail Blazers and Lenny Wilkins. Both were incredibly successful until they weren’t. I hope I’m just frustrated and wrong but it appears change in management and coaching is inevitable.

  19. Adog

    This team rides or does with Russ…and from the size of his contract… that’s moral of the story. This is a plot that coach Carrol does not want to write…to put all your eggs in one players basket. So we got an off season of suspected media leaks from russ to the media, the whole let Russel choke…er cook campaign, and now we got a team that is essentially about one player…one character… Russel Wilson. This is not a recipe for superbowls…when Rob…stands for right on brother… says that the Rams and niners reached the Superbowl with lesser qbs, I interpret that as we’d be better off without Russ. Having a franchise… let’s face it… media whore qb is way out of Carroll’s comfort zone, and if the coach and qb are not writing the same book, they’re not gonna win a trophy.

    • Big Mike

      Bet you’re one of the early Wilson haters before he made big dough. Read the post directly below yours by Trevor for a summary of a whole lot of factors outside of Wilson being a “media whore” as to why the team is where it’s at. And he left out the McDowell thing on top of it.

      • Afog

        No I think if you look at that years mock draft post…I had the hawks on Wilson or cousins. I would think that a big reason they balked at paying frank clark was the crazy contract they had to give Wilson. My point all along has been that Carroll’s coaching philosophy and therefore efficiency and wilson’s huge contract are not symbiotic. I’m very disappointed as a fan that Russel would use the media to communicate with his team…he’s the the captain for God sake…if that is true.

  20. Trevor

    The Hawks has the perfect 4-3 DE in Clark. He could rush the passer with speed and set an edge. He was also an emotional leader. They did not want to pay him.

    So their plan to replace him.

    – Draft an old unathletic 5 Tech because he had a decent Senior year and showed grit at the frickin Senior Bowl. (failure)
    -trade for a freak DE and guarantee him you won’t tag him. Then let him walk because you don’t want to pay him either (failure)
    -Sign and overpay an old SAM LB who was once athletic but who you let walk 5 yrs ago. (Failure)
    -Pray Rasheem Green improves (Failure)
    -Cut Shaquem and then bring him back to be a pass rusher (failure)
    -Sign a guy in Benson who you previously cut to be your starting LEO(failure)

    6 poor attempts and 6 complete failures. Then people wonder why the pass rush sucks. They are like the Browns or Bears trying to find a QB. Flat out brutal.

    • Big Mike

      You forgot – spend a 3rd to move up in the 2nd and draft an EDGE who has an injury history and is hirt to the point that he can’t participate in the combine. (failure)
      Otherwise spot on

    • Rob Staton

      And when it gets spelled out like this, I can’t believe how much grief some of us got for predicting what would happen.

      • cha

        As recently as last week too. “The Hawks are 5-0, quit complaining!”

      • Tecmo Bowl

        I wish this comedy of errors was more funny.

  21. Pran

    Rob, can you write a piece on life after Pete. Does Pete need to groom a successor. Is Schotty an option.

    I am convinced at this time that beyond a minor miracle its tough to win a SB with current state of affairs.
    Hawks will be relevant and in conversation as long as Pete and Russ are here, 28 other teams will envy the success but for fans there wont be a championship.

    This season may be dead in the water and possibly next season with no cap, picks and solutions in pocket.
    We may have to adjust our expectations as reaching playoffs a success and not go thru the hell of 15 other franchises regularly go through with out a coach or QB.

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t think it’s the right time for this article

      • SeaTown

        This team is on life support. Let’s face it. They will continue to lose shootouts because the defense is atrocious and there really is no way to fix the pass rush quickly. In fact, from what I have seen the last few years I have no faith that even over time they can fix this problem because let’s be real, this defense needs a lot more than just a pass rush. And now they are going to pay a S 20 million a year and then have no draft capital to fix the rest of this sad sack D? Or do they let him walk and have nothing to show for what they traded for him? Pure incompetence managing the cap, draft capital, etc….

        The worst part is they are wasting the prime of a HOF caliber QB. Infuriating.

        • Rob Staton

          I wouldn’t say they’re on life support. I just think they’ve done a crap job building the defense, have wasted resources and run the serious risk of squandering prime Wilson year after year.

  22. GerryG

    I mentioned yesterday the loss of Homer really screwed them up, he’s so critical to their pass pro game. Carrol then echoed the same on the PCS on 710 I think.

    Doesnt excuse Schotty for not coming up with something to counter the AZ defense, screens, short passes to TE ect. They get too addicted to the big play O

  23. Volume12

    Where’s Stephon Gilmore end up?

    • Big Mike

      Just our luck it’ll be Frisco.

      • Volume12

        Maybe. I would think they’d trade him out of the AFC. Chicago?

    • Rob Staton

      Probably Baltimore.

      Or San Fran.

    • cha

      New Orleans

    • Gohawks5151


      • Volume12

        That was another team that popped into my head.

        • Big Mike

          Makes sense with Vrabel and the NE connection. Don’t know if Evil Hoodie would trade him to another AFC team tho.

  24. Volume12

    NC RB Javonte Williams (5’10, 220 lbs.) was 1 of my favorite guys I watched this summer (watchlist) and he has not disappointed. Leads the country in broken tackles w/ 27, has 10 rushing TDs, and almost 400 yds after contact.

    • Volume12

      And Minnesota EDGE Boye Mafe (6’4, 260) is a freak! Really liked what I saw from him against Michigan. Rumored to run a 4.57 40, 1.58 10, 40″ vert, 4.3 SS, 10’6″ broad. He’s not a finished product by any means. At least from my 1 game, small sample, perspective.

      • Trevor

        Mafe is a guy to monitor for sure. The raw traits are definitely there.

    • Volume12

      I also really, really want to see UAB EDGE Jordan Smith (6’6-6’7, 250-255 lbs.)

      All I could find on him so far:

      • Gohawks5151

        He looked the part for stretches in the game I watched, but admittedly he needs a lot of work too. Kind of the typical talented small school guy with no plan. Drifted in and out of the game. Ball of clay though.

        • Volume12

          That body type alone reminds me a lot of Marcus Davenport.

  25. jed

    Speaking of encores, when I think about the Seahawks DL the lyrics to Radiohead’s “Just” pop in my head. Not a big fan of the band, but Pete & John this is for you:

    “You do it to yourself, you do
    And that’s what really hurts
    Is you do it to yourself, just you
    You and no one else
    You do it to yourself”

    • cha

      Yesterday I woke up sucking a lemon
      Yesterday I woke up sucking a lemon

      Yesterday I woke up sucking a lemoooooooooooonnnnnn

      • cha

        Just ’cause you feel it
        Doesn’t mean it’s there
        Just ’cause you feel it
        Doesn’t mean it’s there

        • vbullen65

          We are accidents waiting to happen..

  26. cha

    Snacks done enough cycles on the Peloton?

    Ben Arthur
    The Seahawks are releasing DT Anthony Rush, a source tells SeattlePI
    12:34 PM · Oct 27, 2020

    • Rob Staton

      Love that we’re going to unleash Snacks Harrison against… San Fran’s outside zone and sweep game.

      • cha

        • Big Mike

          I literally LOL’d

        • James Cr.

          One of the greatest shows ever – next to Fawlty Towers of course.

      • Simo

        I think Snackerdoodle is going to be a non-factor, whether against SF this week or anyone else after that. Brooks is the guy that should play well against SF’s complex run game!

  27. Ukhawk

    Rob. I agree doing something now is better than nothing. However what would’ve been the alternative to the FO approach?

    I think you’ve acknowledged, and I agree, that there is no easy, obvious answer here. Has any team actually spent wisely on pass rush in FA and been rewarded??. More of a question than an answer here.

    I do believe it is egregious how this declared #1 off-season priority has been handled. What I don’t understand is why pass a player like Ngakoue or why not resign Clowney ? Mind blowing

    • Rob Staton

      Robert Quinn and Jadeveon Clowney are grading well per PFF.

      Ngakoue has five sacks in six games.

      Dante Fowler played well against Detroit and might get a new lease of life after Atlanta’s poor start.

      Calais Campbell has four sacks for Baltimore.

      For me the answers were they and they failed the test.

      Meanwhile, Benson Mayowa is graded 99th out of 111 pass rushers. Jarran Reed is 80th out of 119 defensive tackles.

      • Simo

        That grade for Reed might be the one that hurts the most on our miserable DL. He got relatively big money last offseason and hasn’t really lived up to that billing.

        It’s easy to dump on Mayowa since he’s obviously not a starting caliber DE, but he’s not even making half of what Reed makes, while coming in at 80th place!!

        • Chris

          Take a look at what Q Jefferson has been doing lately… makes you sad, but we never would have paid him.

  28. Starhawk29

    I want to start by saying I love Pete Carroll. There is a legitimate spirit that comes through in his teams, and if nothing else he’s an excellent leader who knows how to keep a competitive fire lit. Today, it’s not good enough.

    Sloppy play, inconsistencies, all the awful stuff Rob mentioned have undermined this teams potential for several years now. Most glaring is his inability to match up with the rest of the NFC West, failing to adapt and grow to better our competition despite having the best QB. Our losses to those teams make all the difference in playoff seeding, and we have often looked simply outclassed. So, should we fire Pete? Not yet.

    Today Pete’s job is safe, but the seat is warm (I should add that the FO needs to be held accountable too, but I want to focus on coaching here). Losing the division year after year, and failing to address the old issues that have bugged us have left the team in Mike McCarthy purgatory (PC is a better coach in my book though). Much as I disagreed with it at the time, I’d love to see the urgency from the ownership that we saw from Elway in Denver a while ago. One and done in the playoffs isn’t good enough anymore.

    • Rob Staton

      You won’t find that urgency with the current ownership.

      They are simply in a holding pattern until the team is sold.

    • Big Mike

      The “front office” is Pete Carroll.

  29. Volume12

    Would Seattle ever adjust their scheme? They have the means to go from a 4-3 base to a 3-4 or 3-3-5 stack.

    • Trevor

      They won’t but definitely should.

  30. millhouse-serbia

    Griffen to Lions by Rapaport.

    • Rob Staton


      Didn’t need him… Stephen Sullivan.

      It’s a conditional sixth rounder.

      Thank god we protected a conditional sixth rounder rather than get a pass rusher we don’t need.

      • cha

        Josina got egg on her face though.

        It’s the little victories.

        Now watch, 5 mins from now “hol up, I just spoke to Griffen on the phone and he says nobody’s told him he’s being traded.”

        • Rob Staton

          Josina… the gift that keeps on giving.

    • Big Mike

      For the love of God.
      So how much of this is Pete’s ego refusing to allow him to address the Grand Canyon sized hole at EDGE because he can’t/won’t admit their “plan” was shite?

    • BruceN

      Incredible. Lions have a higher sense of urgency to improve their team than we do. That was quick.

    • pdway

      incredibly disappointing. really don’t get it.

  31. Easy Answers Hard Choices

    Surely Russ understands the Seahawks situation. Huge holes in a team with no draft capital or significant cap space for a rebuild. Basically the situation for the next few years looks hopeless, and even his continued brilliance will prove futile as the Seahawks won’t come anywhere close to another Super Bowl title. Right now, the Seahawks are the worst team in the NFC West, with no way to improve their lot. How long does RW continue to accept this, and at what point does he try and force himself out of Seattle? He’s not getting any younger; one could hardly blame him for wanting to escape the current situation….

  32. Rob Staton

    Greg Olsen + Jacob Hollister

    +$10m for this season

    190 yards in six games

    Two touchdowns

    • cha

      Offense is 20 for 60 on 3rd downs so far this year.

      • Rob Staton

        That is dreadful.

        • cha

          This offense can throw the ball on a string from 40 yards into a 6square inch bucket but can’t get 3 yards when the game is on the line.

          • Rob Staton

            I’ve just checked — only the Jets have a worse third down conversion percentage.


            • cha

              Doesn’t matter. We have All Pro punter and a great def- oh. OH. Uh, never mind.

            • Chris A

              Jeez it thought this couldn’t get worse.. good lord

    • Volume12

      Do 1 of them have any value to another team?

      • Rob Staton

        Probably not.

        And I doubt the Seahawks want to flirt with creating a problem there by cutting into their depth.

        Might not be such a risky move if the defense wasn’t so bad, mind.

        • Volume12

          That would be the only position I could think of that they could though.

          If it’s not Dunlap, Aldon Smith, or a rabbit out of a hat, I personally think they should look at shifting schematically, even if I’m 90% sure or whatever that Pete wouldn’t.

    • Colin K Carneyj

      Plus Luke Willson earning about 100K per snap played this season. Add a 4th and 7th round pick at the Tight End position this years draft. Such an over reach at DE could have been a welcome addition.

  33. BruceN

    Griffen got traded to the Lions. 🙁

    • Jordan E

      AMAZING!! #AlwaysCompete

      • BruceN

        “We’re always in every deal”…

        • BobbyK


  34. TomLPDX

    I can’t believe they whiffed on Griffin. This is just getting to be too much. Absolutely ZERO confidence in John S at this point. I don’t follow other teams GM moves that much but this just seems to be such gross negligence on JS’s team

    • cha

      Twice, actually.

      • SeaTown

        Wow! It seriously looks like they do no want to upgrade the pass rush. This makes no sense.

        • TomLPDX

          It really doesn’t make any sense at all. WTF is wrong with our FO?

  35. BobbyK

    Kerrigan, Fackrell, McKinley, … something better happen.

    Lions get a pass rusher for a conditional 6th round pick. What a joke.

  36. Michael P Matherne

    Lions just got Everson Griffen from the ‘Boys for a conditional 6th… To quote Russell Wilson: “Why not us?”

    • Rob Staton

      Because we have Stephen Sullivan of course.

      And in a few weeks things will be better because… errr… Pete says so.

    • Matt

      I can’t believe it.

  37. El Cavito

    This team desperately needs new, proper ownership. PC/JS need to be challenged not only on the moves they have made but the ones they have NOT made.

    • Jordan E

      Bezos needs to buy the Hawks lol. Run the org like amazon and it’ll be dynasty in no time.

      • TomLPDX

        Actually, we need someone like David Tepper.

        (reply fail from earlier …but I wish we had an owner like that. I miss Paul!)

  38. Scot04

    Why would we need another pass rusher. We got a safety with 2sacks that only cost us two 1sts and a 3rd.

    • Big Mike

      Exactly. Oh, and one that’s played less than half the teams defensive snaps.

      • TomLPDX

        Actually, we need someone like David Tepper.

        • TomLPDX

          oops, that was meant in reply to Jordan E above.

  39. jj


    For you…

    Well I just saw I missed a text from DE Everson Griffen (“Detroit”) who was traded by the #Cowboys. Griffen said this on the phone to me just now: “I’m excited. I just got to process everything..I’m gonna reach out to Adrian (Peterson) at some point but I’m going home to pack 1/2

    • SteveLargent80

      Oh Josina, some things will change, but you will never

    • Rob Staton

      “My name’s Josina Anderson… and I’m here to cover my arse and also let you all know that my phone is most definitely still working”

  40. El Cavito

    Eli Apple just released by Carolina. Strong candidate to circumvent the need to address the D-Line…

    • Jordan E

      Better yet, he has the length! Lets throw him in the edge rotation.

  41. BobbyK

    Pete: Jamal Adams sure is good.

    John: I agree. He’s great.

    Pete: We should call the Jets and see what they want for him.

    John: Well, Pete. I’ve got both good and bad news.

    Pete: What’s the good news?

    John: They’ll trade him!

    Pete: What’s the bad news?

    John: They want at least couple first round picks!

    Pete: That’s it? Hell, throw some extra players and picks back so they don’t back out! Hurry! The season is coming and fans are mad our DEs suck! It’ll make them forget about everything we haven’t done.

    John: Whatever you say.
    *Moments later Seahawks trade for Jamal Adams.

    Months later and Seahawks are the best team in the NFL if you don’t include EGDE rushers.

    Pete: Wish we didn’t suck so bad creating pressure.

    John: Yeah. It sucks.

    Pete: Should we try to improve ourselves?

    John: Nah. We need our 5th round pick. I’m not interested in trading a 7th round pick either. These picks are too valuable. That’s how you build teams – through the draft.

    Pete: Yah, I know. Fifth round picks turn into Alton Robinson. I don’t know where we’d be without him this year.

    John: Now you understand. I can’t trade those picks even if it improves your chance to actually win a Super Bowl.

    Pete: Want to go to the circus? I want to ride the merry-go-round. It’s reminds me of our DEs. You sit on a horse and it’s like you’re chasing the horse in front of you.

    John: Cool. Lets bring our EDGE rushers too. They like chasing shit they can’t catch.

    Pete: Oh, Goody!

    John: This is so fun!

    • Big Mike

      Genius Bobby. Utterly but sadly a fantastic post.

    • Trevor

      Love it!

    • Chase

      Is there any other way it could have gone? Great post

  42. SeaTown

    At this point and by the moves and lack of moves made it is clear PC/JS have no intention if improving the pass rush. No other explanation.

  43. Isaac

    CBS says E. Griffen going to Detroit for…a conditional 6th rounder. Another target gone, just like that…

    • Jordan E

      Alright im convinced. Hawks arent going to do anything. Their happy with the retreads and the dline. I wonder whats the excuse for missing E. Griffen this time?

      • Isaac

        Cap space? Obviously our 4th string TE in Hollister is much more important than trading for a STARTING DE…

  44. Tony

    At some point there is a reason they are ducking the 1 glaring hole they have to fix. These completely good opportunties to improve that 1 area of utter failure keep presenting themselves. Im just falling over the neglect. Is this ignorance? Stubborness? Is pete trying to prove something????What are we trying to prove here? This is just beyond words the dumbest thing ive seen this team do in all of there existence.

    At this point, i feel like they are toying with us.

    • Big Mike

      I do believe it’s stubbornness myself, for a number of possibilities. It’s possible that he got pissed that Russ went public (Cowherd, etc.) with his desire for more weapons’ and desire to “cook” and as a result he went all in on offensive people in the offseason i.e. TEs, 8000 O-linemen, etc. Certainly hanging Russ out to dry on the AB thing would support this angle.
      It’s also possible that HIS plan (Irvin, Mayowa, Taylor, etc. can’t be wrong cuz it’s HIS pan and he is deluding himself into believing he can get it fixed with the guys HE brought in.
      And if you think adults aren’t capable of this type of childish shit, especially when they KNOW they have job security, you ain’t been paying attention in life.

  45. cha

    Frustration post alert….

    I want LJ Collier in front of the press. Ask him if he’s still pissed off and feels disrespected like he was this summer that somebody called him a “draft bust.”

    I want Benson Mayowa in front of the press. Ask him if he’s still annoyed that there’s no faith in the pass rush and if he still feels like the he’s “lead pass rusher” or whatever he called himself. Ask him if he still thinks the press is disrespecting the group. (and while we’re taking swings at him, ask him what he was thinking on that penalty.)

    • Big Mike



    • Rob Staton

      More like…

      ‘Benson have you voted and how good did it feel?’

      ‘Benson just how stunningly amazing was Jordyn Brooks last week?’

      ‘Benson what’s your favourite ever Halloween costume?’

    • Sea Mode

      Do it.

    • Tecmo Bowl

      Its not Mayowa or Colliers fault that they were counted on to start. Its on JS/PC. Who knows what they’re thinking…trade for Jabril Peppers to get another great blitzing safety? Its baffling at this point.

  46. BruceN

    I can’t wait for the next press update so someone can ask Pete fluff questions about his knee or how impressed he was by DK’s hustle, etc. I am hoping Jerry didn’t want to deal with us after the ET fiasco where we yanked his chain and moved the goal posts. Otherwise, to lose Griffin for a conditional 6th to the Lions is appalling.

    • BruceN


  47. Henry Taylor

    What are they doing?

    My word, so much for this loss inspiring a sense of urgency on the DL.

  48. SeattleLifer

    I think the saddest (and scariest) part of it all is the dearth of talent. Rob you’re point of other nfc west teams doing so much with backup qb’s bears it out perfectly – when you have a team full of real talent and solid backups on both sides of the ball then you don’t have to have a superstar qb and injuries won’t wreck your season per se. Russ has CARRIED this team post LOB and through a multitude of front office gaffs and poor thought processes we’ve lessened our team talent year by year. Many of us have seen it coming and now we witness the fruition of it all with a near historically bad modern era defense.

  49. Trevor

    I think it is almost a lock now Russ will not sign another deal with the Hawks if there is not new ownership and massive change in the front office / coaching department.

    Cowherd will start banging the drums as soon as the Hawks bow out early in the playoffs and then others will follow shortly after as it becomes the hot topic next off season despite Russ having 2 yrs left,

    • Big Mike


    • Henry Taylor

      Sorry but this is sensationalist rubbish. It’s a fair to discuss that issues could arise, but to call it “almost a lock” is utter nonsense.

    • Seahawkwalt

      Great point. I can’t blame him if he did.
      I wonder what he could get for him

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t think that is a lock at all.

      I don’t think Wilson is motivated to get out of Seattle in the slightest.

      I do think, however, that he’s getting increasingly frustrated with the way this team is being built, how he is being supported, I think he can see other QB’s who he considers peers getting greater support and achieving more and I think he is likely very concerned that his career is drifting along and they’re stuck in the same pattern they’ve been in for five years — nowhere near the SB.

      And I think all fans should be wary of this.

  50. dcd2

    Been saying for awhile now – no help is coming.

    If this doesn’t show it, nothing will. I think it’s safe to move on from the Kerrigan, Williams, Takk Mckinley’s of the discussion. If they are free and inadequate… maybe.

    The defense is what it is and our only hope is that they add something on offense that flukes us to a championship.

  51. cha

    I may have read this Darrell Taylor injury issue all wrong.

    He can’t change direction while running?

    So what? Why would you need to? You’re a pass rusher. Just run straight at the quarterback!

    //smacks forehead

    It’s all so easy. Problem solved.

    • Bmseattle

      Well, the important thing is just for him to get close enough to the QB, so it will count as a “pressure”.
      We’ll all feel better once our pressure percentage is up a few points.

      • cha

        I’m sensing a “harsh realities and home truths part III” post is brewing.

        • Rob Staton

          My article for tomorrow isn’t going to please some people.

          • BruceN

            Great. Something to look forward to 🙂

  52. Sea Mode

    Sorry, if Rob writes an “instant reaction”, I write a “delayed reaction…”

    Worst decision of the game: the refs on BWags “penalty”. Huge lifeline for them and momentum swing.

    2nd worst decision: Mayowa trying to block the FG. Also coaches share the fault, as Rob pointed out.

    3rd worst decision (and stupidest to me): not going for it on 4th down at the end of regulation. PC still tries to call games as if he had the 2014 defense out there. We had been gaining yards on the ground all game except that last mistake by Damien Lewis. Our defense hadn’t been able to stop anything. Put the ball in your offense’s hands and get 3 yds to seal the game!

    • cha

      These press conferences are poisoning my mind I think.

      PC crowing after the Minn win about ‘you give RW 4 downs and he can make it happen’ just…hurts so much…

      • TomLPDX


    • All I see is 12s

      Imagine if they had simply called the bubble screen to Metcalf On 3rd and 2 at the end of regulation. What defensive back and stop him from getting to yards whenever he wants?

      • 12th chuck

        or send dk into motion, let him get up to full speed

    • pdway

      the maddest I got was that 3rd and 2 call to Hyde when the game was there to be iced. let your franchise qb make a play for crying out loud.

      I know the thought is that an incomplete pass stops the clock, I don’t care, I still trust RW to complete a pass, run, or even take a loss. in a very real sense, that play was the game.

      • BobbyK

        The 3rd down Hyde run was stupid because you knew that if they didn’t get the first down – they weren’t going to win. It didn’t matter because we know how bad this defense is – they were giving it up no matter if the Cardinals had that extra time or not.

      • Hawkdawg

        Actually, at the last press conference, a media guy did in fact ask Pete why they ran their second string back into the line on a play identical to one they had very recently run. He said that Russell came to the line with options, but apparently he didn’t exercise any of them.

    • Rob Staton

      Sorry Sea Mode but there’s no way the call on Wagner was worse than Mayowa’s brain fart. The Seahawks still had about 60-yards to defend and avoid giving up a TD and failed. Mayowa’s mistake completely changed the end of the game. It’s the one thing, IMO, that contributed more than anything to the loss.

      • Sea Mode

        That’s a fair argument, but if we want to go down that path, Damien’s error was even more costly IMO. He blew up the run that likely would have gotten us a first down to ice the game away.

        Even if Mayowa hadn’t had his brain fart and the Cards had gotten a field goal, I don’t see much reason to believe they would have had much trouble marching down the field for a TD on the final drive anyways.

      • Hawkcrazy

        Agree completely and I blame the coaching as much as Mayowa, Up by 10 they should not have tried to block the kick at all. As bad a play Mayowa made I was upset with the situational unawareness.

  53. hawkfanforetenity

    Has anyone emailed the local Seahawk media to ask them to ask the questions we want answered? Perhaps if Bob Condotta gets 50 emails politely asking him to ask how fans can have trust in Carroll to fix the defense when all we’ve seen is inaction, perhaps Condotta will represent us. Or any other local journalist, not to pick on Condotta who seems like a good guy with a good sense of humor.

    All the media have easy to find contact info, and being abusive to them should be off limits, but they should be writing and asking about what the fans want to hear about. If we’re unhappy with them for not, why not tell them? Diplomatically.

    • Rob Staton

      My advice would be not to harass the local media.

      I don’t think that would make them any more likely to ask the questions that need asking. I think it would just be unpleasant.

      But certainly the people in a position to ask the questions need to ask themselves what the purpose of those conferences truly are. It’s not an opportunity to please Carroll with a pleasant, uplifting question. Or to get the coach to nod at your assertion that so-and-so is playing well.

      If you aren’t a club employee you should be asking challenging questions about the defense, the off-season and other issues discussed. It’s time to decide if you’re a journalist or just someone happy to go along for the ride.

      • Hawkdawg

        I occasionally prod Art Thiel to ask questions. He even occasionally asks them.

  54. Aaron

    JS performance the past few years, and obviously this year have been fireable. Yes, the DK pick was great and Clowney trade was a steal but by not resigning him I no longer see it as a feather in his cap.

    Do I think JS actually gets fired? Not a chance, but his performance merits such conversations.

    Rob, this upcoming offseason (with thought be go 10-6 w/ first rd exit this year) if the Hawks were offered a 1st rd pick and a rotation level DL for Adams would you take it?
    Obviously the price of a 1st rounder for a half season of Adams is tough to palate but id rather recover assets and fix our line than be stubborn and hold onto Adams. I don’t see PC/JS making such a trade primarily because they tend to go down with the ship on big moves rather then moving on, but I think its an interesting scenario.

    Thanks for all the great work/content!

    • Rob Staton

      I would consider trading Jamal Adams in the off-season, yes.

      The Seahawks need a pass rush not a $20m safety.

      • CaptainJack

        I’d trade him yesterday…

      • Scot04

        If I’m Seattle I offer a 4 year 60m contract with 40m guaranteed and hope being the top paid safety in the league is enough. Otherwise you look to trade him.

      • Big Mike

        So if he peroms “reasonably” well what do we get for him? A 2 and a 4?

        • Rob Staton

          No it would have to include a first.

          If Brandin Cooks gets traded multiple times for R1 picks so can Adams.

  55. pdway

    I’m trying to rationalize this – I get that maybe they don’t think Griffen is as good as others do – but man, it’s such low hanging fruit — a 6th rounder? what’s that, a special teams player, if that? why would they not want to bring this guy in?

    This one really baffles me.

    • Norman

      The Lions’ 6th will be a high 6th. Would’ve taken our 5th at least to beat it.

      • Rob Staton

        It’s a conditional sixth.

        • Norman

          Ok…would have taken our conditional 5th. Can’t imagine any “condition” with Griffin not being met regardless, he’s not exactly a fringe player.

          • Rob Staton

            Depends what the condition is.

            If it’s Detroit making the playoffs, a pure seventh might’ve done it.

  56. GoHawksDani

    Look at the bright side. We won’t need to think about how this passrush can be improved because we won’t have much CAP space nor draft picks or trade candidates on the roster.

    Be happy with this 5-1 guys we might not have another 10+ win season for a while

    • Sea Mode

      Wow, that’s a pretty dark “bright side…”. 😲

  57. cha

    Passing Yards Allowed by the PC Seahawks

    2010 3994
    2011 3518
    2012 3250
    2013 2752
    2014 2970
    2015 3364
    2016 3612
    2017 3347
    2018 3842
    2019 4223

    2020 2212 (through 6 games)
    2020 5898 (projected through 16)

    • cha

      Points Scored Against the PC Seahawks

      2010 407
      2011 315
      2012 245
      2013 231
      2014 254
      2015 277
      2016 292
      2017 332
      2018 347
      2019 398

      2020 172 (through 6 games)
      2020 459 (projected through 16)

  58. Andrew Monusko

    For those wondering why they didn’t engage on Griffen:

    Official cap space by team (25-32):
    25. TB: 5,216,542 (Pre-AB signing)
    26. MIN: 5,009,502
    27. BUF: 4,746,057
    28. CAR: 4,706,392
    29. BAL: 2,850,420
    30. SF: 2,728,372
    31. ATL: 1,772,755
    32. SEA: 1,302,101

    Yes, they can create space in different ways, but creating space usually means pushing obligations into future years. Right now, there is no money.

    • BobbyK

      You make exceptions when you’re 5-1 and have a glaring weakness. Even with a much improved team next year on paper – there’s no guarantees they’ll be 5-1 and in a drivers seat like this again.

    • cha

      Baloney. There’s money.

    • Rob Staton

      There are literally players they could move on the roster right now to create space and not suffer any problems.

      Or they could extend Lockett, which is inevitable, and lower his cap hit.

      Every team in the league makes the cap work when they want it to.

      • CaptainJack

        It all goes back to John Schneider being incompetent

        • TomLPDX


          • CaptainJack

            No wonder he hides from the media while Pete fields the tough questions

            • Rob Staton

              I must’ve missed those tough questions!

              • TomLPDX

                Some of them were ask of Russ…the rest weren’t asked at all.

        • Big Mike

          Pete guys, not John. If wanted it to happen, they’d clear the cap room.

        • Simo

          Man, I get being frustrated about this defense, the DL specifically and the lack of moves aimed at improving these deficiencies, but it’s completely off base to suggest that John Schneider is incompetent!

          I do agree that Pete is the guy who call the shots for this team, so if anyone should be questioned about these issues its Pete!

          • dcd2

            So what is John doing? Literally nothing, except being a yes man?

            The awful drafts, the incoherent approach to free agency, the trades, the bungled salary cap, the overall lack of talent on the roster… You’re going to put all of that on Pete and give John a pass?

            At least Pete has some redeeming qualities as it relates to the team. Every part of John’s job description has been sub-par for about 4-5 years. There have been some good moves, no doubt. But the fails have been mounting and outnumbering the successes for years.

            How many players have just outright walked with no compensation (trade or comp pick)? So that we can hold on to them while they are disgruntled and then rush out and sign Joeckel’s, Ed Dickson’s, Barkeveous Mingo’s, BJ Finney’s, Ogbuehi’s and on and on and on. Is that all on Pete too?

            John gets plenty of blame in my eyes. At least as much as Pete in my opinion.

            • Simo

              You’re entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else on this blog. Mine is that John Schneider is not incompetent, and that Pete is the primary person calling the shots for this team.

              And those shots he calls include roster construction, not just coaching. My understanding is that John does the leg work on all deals, but Pete has to approve/disapprove. If Pete doesn’t like the deal, it simply does not happen. This arrangement is unlike almost all other professional sports GM/Head Coach relationships. It’s backwards really.

              Throw John under the bus if you must, but things in Seattle won’t change until Pete moves on IMO!

  59. FrogsAlum

    This is not a rebuttal to your point, but I think an idea to consider and possibly build some hope for the future.

    I see it as a very difficult prospect to build this defense up to a level that allows us to realistically compete for a championship this year, but next year will be truly unprecedented in terms of cap squeeze in the modern NFL. With such a hard decline in cap space, we have a unique deflationary situation on the horizon that actually means a dollar not spent today is worth ~1.13 dollars next year (200M 2020 cap – 175M 2021 cap/200M). Obviously, 2021 cap numbers for the team or the league aren’t set in stone at the moment, but as of right now the Hawks conservatively have ~20M to spend next year. They are currently 12th in the league on spotrac in terms of expected cap space but a few of the teams ahead of them have money that will be locked up in new extensions (Baltimore, Patriots, Chargers). The majority of the rest of the teams in the top 10 are bottom dwellers who may struggle to recruit priority free agents. All in all, even without the prized 1 and 3 draft picks next year, the Seahawks are in a good spot to recruit NFL talent in 2021.

    To me, it seems possible to focus on the pass rush through FA next year and use the draft to supplement any other weaknesses. Ideally, we would’ve done it this year, but I do still think there is a potential to right the ship in the coming offseason.

    The interesting part is there will likely be some inefficiency somewhere in this process. Will top-level players like Bud Dupree get 18-20M/yr that they would’ve expected last year? Or will the inefficiency trickle down to lower level players who would’ve normally expected contracts in the 4-10M/yr range who now have no teams able to offer them contracts for these amounts (KJ Wright, David Moore)? We are likely stuck paying Jamal his price given the assets we’ve lost to acquire him, but there will likely be opportunities abound to improve the team significantly especially if you lower the 1st year cap hit akin to Frank Clark’s KC contract.

    This post is a bit forward-looking so early into the season, but I think it’s a decent situation to keep in mind when thinking about any future actions the organization may take.

    • Rob Staton

      You may well be right.

      At this point though, I have a hard time trusting the Seahawks to fix this issue.

      • FrogsAlum

        Agreed, healthy concerns regarding cap allocation after this offseason

  60. Rob Staton

    This is a brilliant article that does a far better job than I have recently explaining some of the issues on defense:

    The conclusions ring so true.

    For the defense: “(they) just extended last year’s problems and made it worse.”

    For the offense: “They have to pick it up on 3rd down quickly or else the “boom or bust” offense will feature more “busts” against better defenses, and if that doesn’t happen then this whole season could go boom.”

    This is the stark reality I’m afraid that people were happy to ignore when the team was somewhat fortunately beating bad teams.

    • cha

      I apologize for being so insistent on this Rob. But it’s a massive failure that the tight ends haven’t been utilized.

      60 third down plays so far. How many targets do the tight ends have on those third downs?

      Five. 5 times out of 60 they’ve gone to the TEs. (once on 4th down)

      They put a $7m dent in their salary cap before free agency even started to acquire Olsen.

      That’s criminally negligent behavior.

      • Gohawks5151

        Agree. Double tight is their most versatile, safe and effective personnel group with carson DK and Lock. Can roll out, max protect, check release.

      • Rob Staton


    • Gohawks5151

      This is why I didn’t buy the, “Schotty as a Head coach” thing. He’s not bad but he’s just not there. He needs to be better isolating players or scheming for specific players. Counter punching with screen and draw. Better anticipation of pressure packages and downs. Lacks a bit of knowledge of “the moment”. As you mentioned, he seemed out of ideas in OT. You got to have a fall safe play. The one you know is money in crunch time. To me that will always be a Russ pass- run option play. Let him be the man.

    • BOHICA

      We’ve been $h!tty on 3rd down conversions for the past three years.

  61. James Z

    The last paragraph in your article about the treasure spent on mediocrity made my eyes bleed…

    • Rad_man

      yep. horrible. inexcusable.

  62. Rob Staton

    I’ve just seen the Damien Lewis f-up on that crucial third down.

    Jesus wept.

    I’m now really annoyed again at how sloppy this team is. They literally needed to make 6-7 absolutely boneheaded mistakes to lose that game and they pulled it off.

    • CaptainJack

      I thought he was overrated when we drafted him, undersized and not really a technician. Thought he’d struggle if he had to start early, especially in pass protection. Honestly he’s kind of blown me away with overall play but not surprised to see plays like this after going through his LSU tape.

      • Rob Staton

        He was fantastic at LSU and has started brilliantly. That was a horrendous error at a critical time though.

      • BruceN

        That was a bad miss, turning the wrong way clogging the play. But I’m not going to over react. Overall he’s done very well. He’s a rookie and according to PFF he is graded at 74 (86 run blocking). Although his pass blocking needs improvement.

        • 12th chuck

          heard this on the radio, aside from this being a mistake, Wilson called an audible. It was originally called to the left side, audibled to the right and he didn’t hear that it was changed

      • Gohawks5151

        Mistakes happen when depending on rookies and journeymen. Both cost us that game

        • CaptainJack

          I liked the Lewis pick, but I would have rather had Big Fluker in for another year to start as Lewis develops.

          • Gohawks5151

            Lewis wrong way, Dallas missed pass block, Mayowa penalty…

            • BruceN

              Moore’s block on DK TD…

      • Henry Taylor

        It’s was a rookie error that’s spotlighted because it came in a crucial moment. It also shouldn’t overshadow all the good he’s done and our $30m QB made more boneheaded errors to cost us this game.

    • Big Mike

      Saw it earlier this week (Baldinger I think). Brutal.

    • hobro

      OTC publish (without a paywall) weekly player valuations that combine PFF ratings with OTC’s own estimate of market value. FWIW, they ranked Lewis 13th of all guards. Jordan Simmons was 5th!

    • McZ

      There is nothing wrong with a rookie linemen making mistakes on occasions.
      There is everything wrong with having no recgnizable development pattern to build up units, playing 100% snaps with a rookie. Same goes for the secondary.

  63. heath hatheway

    Everson Griffin to the Lions for a conditional 6th rounder… un-freaking-believable…
    Not only do PC & JS f up the offseason they’re doing it again now…

  64. All I see is 12s

    I keep thinking about a comment Schneider made over the summer when he was referencing players whose butts had been kissed since they were in middle school. He was clearly referring to Clowney. At this point, it almost legitimately feels like if a player does not bend to the Seahawks
    number, they are willing to walk away right away. We saw this happening as early as 2014 with Jared Allen. Imagine the difference in the Super Bowl if we’d had even one more pass rusher… And now here we are, clearly he denies the market. He wants to be able to sign these guys at bargains and they know there worth. So we will keep missing out on the elite guys including Frank Clark because we aren’t willing to pay market value.

    • BobbyK

      McDowell, Malik

      • All I see is 12s

        The guy they drafted because they wouldn’t pay Calais Campbell.

  65. Dan Riggs

    It’s hard to argue with anything you’ve written here, Rob. They’ve made so many poor decisions these last few years.

    Looking at the Rams tear apart the Bears defense last night made me think the Seahawks don’t stand a chance against them. And how will they beat the 49ers without someone like Clowney?

    I *have* to believe Schneider is going to try and get a pass rusher before the deadline. He can’t do nothing….can he????

    • Rob Staton

      I think nothing is exactly what he’s going to do.

  66. steele

    I appreciate your analysis, Rob, and all of the discussion on this board. This is one weird, painful 5-1, and I can’t help but worry about what happens now.

    That said, they were one dumb, unnecessary holding penalty from a heroic DK Metcalf TD putting them 6-0. We would still be here agonizing over the condition of this team, but we would be feeling a little—little—better.

    Are the 49ers really “red hot”? I think the 49ers think they are, but they just beat a sucky Patriots team with a bad QB and a bad D that generated zero pressure on Jimmy G, and allowed Jeff Wilson to look like a Hall of Fame back. And Jimmy still threw picks.

    If a team can generate any pressure on Jimmy, he wilts and reverts to what he is. He will have JaMychal Hasty and J. McKinnon at RB, so he won’t be bailed out as much with the run game.
    We need the Seahawks to ball out the way they did the first time last season. Can they?

    • dcd2

      “If a team can generate any pressure on Jimmy, he wilts and reverts to what he is”

      We are literally the least qualified team in the league to pressure him. 48 drop-backs and 1 pressure last week.

      As for bailed out by the run game, we may be missing Carson, Hyde AND Homer. It’s shaping up to be DeeJay Dallas and whoever we’ve got on the practice squad. Dallas’ pass pro is currently giving Russ nightmares.

      The 9ers just handled the Rams, easily (so weird how they can have LA’s number and in turn LA has ours). The ‘sucky’ Pats team is the same one that had a goal to go at the one to beat us, and the 9ers wrecked them with 33-6.

      They are just as banged up as we are, and we play them tough every time though, so who knows.

    • CaptainJack

      Lets win the next game and get things back on track. If we start out 0-2 in division games with the rams still on the schedule TWICE, there will be reason to worry.

    • Rob Staton

      I am very concerned about this game

    • Chase

      The difference is that this year we don’t have a clowney to go nuclear on them. This game will be like the vikings game. Shanahan will control the clock with the run game and short passing game, they will have 6 and 7 minute drives that end in points, and russ will have to play at an MVP level just to keep the game close.

  67. Spencer Duncan

    This article made me start thinking about next off-season. I know there is lots of season left to play but last off-season has left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

    I think we let Olsen and Hollister walk next year. They’ve both been serviceable but it’s time to stop pissing away precious money on depth players. That money needs to go to established contributors and then use draft picks and those prove-it reclamation deals they love for depth (wait for value instead of trying to make something out of players like Finney, Ansah, etc.) Dissly will be a year removed from his injury and should be ready to handle the bulk of the carries, and Parkinson and Sullivan should be serviceable as depth. Hope to see Parkinson get in some action this year to see if he’s ready for that 2nd TE job.

    Cut or re-structure Reed and cut Finney. Time to get rid of the deadweight. I understand they like the leadership and “veteran presence” of guys like Reed but we can get what he provides for much cheaper. That would leave the Seahawks with about 40M to spend next off-season and 32 roster spots filled up.

    They would desperately need to sign a DE, DT and CB in Free Agency. If one of Griffin or Dunbar step up, or are willing to re-sign for a reasonable deal, then let it happen. There are lots of interesting DL and CB options depending on who gets re-signed and tagged, but our needs and FA seem to align nicely. Get a DE who can win one on one and a DT who can create pressure from the inside. I like our young depth at DE and DT but both spots need “the man” to take attention and let them settle into their depth roles. Take care of the big needs in FA and use the draft to address the strengths of the draft and bring in depth – the same things we’ve been saying since the beginning of the off-season. In the draft, prioritize getting a LT early this year (2nd round, if they don’t trade down) to groom behind Brown and pray that he plays effectively for another season or two. With the cap going down, we are in a pretty good position compared to the rest of the league and I hope they’re ready to take advantage.

  68. Scot04

    Why would you cut Reed he’s currently the only legitimate D-lineman we have. Plus we have enough holes to fill on the D-line with him.

    • Jordan E

      Simply put, Reed isn’t that good and hes paid a lot. PFF has him ranked in the 50s… Not worth 10+ million per year.

  69. Coach

    I would love to see Atkins and Dunlap come in from Cincy. What do you think it would take to get those two? I read that Cincy is actually looking at selling this year.

    Go Hawks!!

    • Coach

      They need a tight end, so send them Hollister. We need to get rid of his salary anyway. We can trade them Barton as well. Plus a 6th round pick next year. Would that get it done?

      If so, it seems like a trade that would make us a lot better and get rid of unnecessary salary as well.

      Go Hawks!!

    • Rob Staton

      It won’t happen

  70. Hoggs41

    After rewatching the game they surely had more than one pressure. It wasnt great by any stretch but it certainly wasnt one.

  71. millhouse-serbia

    I see overthecap has salary cap for 2021 at 180mil…what are the chances for that?

    If thats true we have only 30mil in cap space for 2021 but without starting corners (Shaquill and Dunbar), without starting NT (Poona) , without starting RB (Carson), starting C (Pocic), no KJ, Olsen ., Holister, David Moore no starting LG (Iupati and Simmons) and with 9mil of Adamas and i guess he will demand new contract after this year…

    Possible cap savings are Wagner(10), Brown(11), Lockett(10), Reed(8.5), Digs(5) Shell (3.5)and Finney (3.5)…

    No way they gonna cut Wagner, Brown, Shell, Locket and probably Reed…

    Why i am writting this…

    Because i really cant see they sign now someone with big cap hit because they really dont have enough space to maneuvre with next year cap(considering restructure of Russ and Locket contracts)…they will need every single milion to just bring back some of this years players and wont be ablel to resign all of them…

    Really tough situation and it is possible they wont sign anyone because they just cant…

    Finney, Olsen and Holister contract cost as a lot comparing what they bring as a players…Those 3 contracts are reason why they dont have enough money to sign pass rusher right now…

    Awfull situation…

    • Rob Staton

      millhouse-serbia — a bit of friendly advice.

      You spent all of the last off-season saying what they could/couldn’t do because of the cap. They couldn’t sign two pricey pass rushers. They couldn’t get this guy or that. They ended up spending $50m and could’ve done whatever they wanted. The fact they squandered all of that money is neither here nor there. The fact is they had money to spend.

      I don’t want to have the same conversation where you spend months saying they can’t do this, that or the other when it isn’t true.

    • Denver Hawker

      I ran the same analysis in the prior post comments to highlight that next year will likely be more of the same. However, reading it again, I think it says more about how much money was wasted this year.

      • FrogsAlum

        As I’ve previously commented on this thread, you cannot look at the 2021 offseason through the lens of past years. Everything is relative. 20-30M next year is not equivalent to 20-30M this year with the coming deflationary cap. Less money in the league overall will lead to some weird situations and hopefully inefficiencies that can be exploited. Gotta consider the whole picture before getting down

    • cha

      Cap room frankly has very little to do with it. Hawks are in the top third of the league in available cap space for 2021, with options to create more room. They’re in good shape.

      What I’m more concerned about is actual use of those resources and overall cap creativity to maximize talent on the field.

  72. Jeffe

    I get everything you’re sayin and I don’t agree with you. But do you not think If Jamal would’ve played this weekend he would’ve been the difference they needed to win? It would’ve allowed you to not have to spy constantly, and more than likely provide a pass rush, even if inconsistent. I think it’s difficult to grade this defense without adams. Obviously they aren’t good, but adams provides a dimension that nobody else has when he’s in the game.

    • Rob Staton

      1. Then explain which points you don’t agree with. It’s a long article with a variety of points.

      2. Jamal Adams played against New England. How much of a difference did he make there? Or against Dallas when he was on the field?

      3. You can easily grade this defense without Jamal Adams. The pass rush is frighteningly bad. They have no clue what to do to solve this — and whether they blitz more or less the end product is the same. If you think one safety returning is going to come in and save the day you’ll end up disappointed.

    • McZ

      Jamal Adams never played a single down vs a NFC West team.
      Call me a sceptic, but playing six games in the best division in pro football a year is different.

    • AlphaDK

      It’s more disastrous than can be solved by Adams return, but I agree with you to some extent.

      If Adams had been the spy instead of Griffin, I think it could have turned the game, but so could many other ifs: if the refs didn’t call penalty on Wagner, if Cards don’t ice their own kicker, if Homer is healthy in OT and able to pass block better than Hyde and Dallas, if Cards kick FG on 4th and goal after Baker INT, if Carson doesn’t go out with injury, if offense doesn’t burn 2 timeouts early in 2nd half, if coaching staff tells team not to try to block FG attempt that resulted in Mayowa penlaty…

      But the secondary needs some health luck. The secondary has 2/4 starters who had never played a snap in the system, 1 of whom was dealing with legal disaster in Miami all offseason, and the other who was traded to the Hawks 6 weeks before game 1. Neither of whom had preseason games to get acclimated. On top of that, Dunbar has left two games due to injury and missed two others, and Adams left one game early and missed 3 others. Diggs has only played 11 games with Seattle to this point. Being new to the team, preseason games are important to work out wrinkles in scheme and coverage responsibilities, but this year, no preseason games, and due to injuries, our starting secondary still has only about 2 games of snaps playing together.

      The pass rush was going to be a challenge at the start of the season due to lack of proven talent, but then 3 of the 6 EDGE rushers the FO was counting on have basically missed everything due to injury. Irvin was slated to be a 3rd down pass rusher, Green was to be in a rotation at 3T and 5T and led the team in sacks last season, and Taylor is the future at LEO. The absence of those 3 players has forced the team to overplay Mayowa and Collier and with the workload they’ve both become less efficient each week.

      If injuries hadn’t ravaged this team, there’s a chance we’d still be middling on points per drive and DVOA (we were around 19-21 after 4 weeks), but injuries and discontinuity have ravaged the team that didn’t have much room for error.

      If Adams, Green, and Brooks get and stay healthy, and Taylor makes it onto the field, there’s a chance this defense can be average by the palyoffs, but that’s a lot of ifs and uncertainty.

  73. Rob Staton

    Ryan Neal is missing 20.6% of his tackles.

    Quandre Diggs is missing 16.7%.

    Benson Mayowa also 16.7%.

    • Denver Hawker

      Yuck. In a normal world, two of those guys are backups.

      Diggs is playing for a contract in my opinion which is the most concerning. I know he’s under contract next year, but cutting him saves $5.5MM. He need to earn that. People keep saying we need to wait to see him next to Jamal, but he’s just not good this year.

  74. Rob Staton

    Bengals tell Carlos Dunlap to stay at home as they sort out his future. They are talking to teams about a trade:

    As I’ve said a few times now — I don’t think Dunlap is the difference between this defense being an absolute shambles and being passable. I think the Seahawks lost the opportunity to cobble together a complementary defense in March and there’s no going back now.

    However, just ploughing on with what they have isn’t acceptable either. Otherwise this is going to be yet another wasted season.

    IMO they need two edge rushers or they need to find a way — somehow, someway — to deliver a trade similar to the Clowney situation a year ago. I don’t think either is likely.

    It bothers me greatly that they probably won’t do anything, this season will end up like the last five and absolutely nobody will be held to account or challenged. The Seahawks will continue drifting along — good enough to make the playoffs thanks to the QB but not good enough to do much more because the roster construction and use of resources has been poor for years.

    • Big Mike

      Seattle is not making a trade for anyone, imo of course.

    • BobbyK

      Yes!!! The sad reality is they need to acquire TWO edge rushers for this team to have legit Super Bowl aspirations. As of now, they still have that outside chance because of their franchise QB (it’s certainly not from an intelligent roster construction on the defensive side).

      • Big Mike

        “The sad reality is they need to acquire TWO edge rushers for this team to have legit Super Bowl aspirations.”

        But, but, but Stephen Sullivan was a really good EDGE in High School!!

    • Gohawks5151

      If they care to add anyone and I’m not sure they do, I think think they hope Dunlap gets cut and they sign him cheap. Then the trade and asset for a day 3 pick and use one of their own on Takk. That would be kind of nice but it most likely wont happen. They are real stingy with the draft picks.

      • BobbyK

        Unless they’re trading for Percy Harvin or Jamal Adams. Not stingy there. Hell, throw a boatload of picks at them to make it happen… but save that almighty future 7th round pick (or whatever) at all costs!

    • pdway

      I will take any help at all for this D-line, bring in Dunlap if he can still play.

      i’d even take clay matthews if he’s still fit. the inertia is killing me.

      • BobbyK

        Clay is making some pretty decent money this year sitting at home. He probably doesn’t have that football fire anymore, which is fine. Or they’d have signed him. I guarantee if they did sign Clay – he’d immediately be their best pass rusher!

  75. Big Mike

    Something you may want to comment on in an article Rob:

    • Rob Staton

      He’s right to hedge.

      He should gather as much leverage as he can get so that the team with the #1 pick creates the right environment. The coach, structure and promise to build properly. They need to recruit Trevor Lawrence, not assume he will just declare and come riding in to save the day.

      • Big Mike

        Agree 100%.

        • Gohawks5151

          I hope he pulls and Eli Manning

  76. Rad_man

    the approach to the D line this off season is as bewildering and appalling as their approach to the O line was in past years. This year’s D line approach smells like the year Cable had 5 randoms and garbage bin starters and a week before the season opener changed all their positions

    Combined, these approaches have cost them peak years of both a defense and a QB.

    The hubris and mismanagement is stunning.

    on the 3rd down, I’m inclined to think this is a small sample size and will improve over time.

  77. Swisshawk

    Alternate reality:

    – Keep DE Frank Clark (lose additional 2019 1 and additional 2020 second, lose yearly salary cap space of 20 mill)
    – Trade for Diggs

    2020 FA
    – Dont resign Reed (gain yearly salary cap of 12 mill)
    – Trade for Campell (lose 2021 5, lose yearly salary cap space of 12 mill)
    – Sign Clowney (lose yearly salary cap space of 20 mill)
    – Trade for Dunbar
    – Dont sign Olson, Irvin, Mayowa, Hollister, Ogbuhi, Finney (saves 26 mill against the cap)

    2020 Before Season
    – Dont trade for Adams (win 2021 1 and 3, 2022 1)
    – Trade for Ngakue before season (lose 2021 first, lose salary cap space of 15 mill this year)

    You would have a passrush of Clark, Clowney, Ngakue and Campell.
    You would lose: Collier, Taylor, Reed, Olson, Irvin, Mayowa, Hollister, Ogbuhi, Finney
    You would lose 30 mill in cap space (55 for passrush – 26 savings)
    2021 Draft: 2,3,4,6,7
    2022 Draft: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7

    You can easily work around the salary cap if you want to!!! You have a defense that is supporting the offense. You have 3 young, promising passrushers (2 of whom are signed longterm). You could even add cheap rotation to the passrush: Mayowa (3 mill) or Griffin (3 mill and losing another 5, in season trade).

    • BobbyK

      I don’t like your proposal because I don’t see how this team could be any good if it didn’t have Mayowa or Finney. They are such good bargains.

      • Big Mike

        Exactly. I mean Finney has been an integral part of the o-line for that 3 or 4 million. He gets water for the other linemen, keeps their spot warm so when they come off the field their butts don’t get cold, etc. He’s playexd a lot od snaps too………zero is a lot, right?

    • Chase

      Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t DK come from trading back the Chiefs pick?

  78. Simo

    As things stand right now, the team has approximately $3.3m in cap space (according to OTC). It looks like in order to trade for one or two of the available veteran pass rushers they need more 2020 cap space, so what’s the best way to go about creating more space?

    1. Should they try to extend Lockett and lower his 2020 cap hit? What about short extensions with D Brown and KJ? Can they create enough room this way?

    2. Should they renegotiate Russ’ massive contract to create more 2020 room? I assume this means turning base salary into bonus and spreading it out over the length of the contract, which definitely creates more cap pressure in future years.

    3. Can they cut anyone right now in order to save 2020 space? I think Finney has some guaranteed money next year, but maybe its time to call his signing a busted flush and move on. I know they really like Hollister, but his current use just doesn’t justify the expense. Is he worth keeping around for the eventual Olsen and Dissly injuries?

    I really don’t see the Hawks doing anything that creates tougher cap situations in future years. Any other ideas or thoughts on how they can get this done?


    And Bobby, you left another great bargain, the TE group. 9 mil for Greg Olsen, 3 for Hollister 22 catches so far!

    • BobbyK

      It’s imperative to have a third-string TE making millions who can’t block. It’s much more beneficial to put money there than a starting caliber DE. Besides, Mayowa is going to get consideration for the Pro Football Hall of Fame (it they need a janitor).

      • Pran

        i think they value Hollister more than the folks here. one injury is all it takes and Olsen is gone next season.

  80. Pran

    Damn it… why no team is cutting starting DEs

  81. cha

    Dan Graziano
    Bengals have been discussing Dunlap with several teams. Lions looked into it before doing their deal with Dallas for Griffen. Expectation in league circles is that Dunlap will be traded this week.

    • Big Mike

      To “not the Seahawks “

      • Rowdy

        This didnt age well but we were all thinking it

  82. Marcus

    If the unthinkable happens where JJ Watt becomes available for say a 2nd+ a bit more, could the Seahawks even make room for his cap hit?

    I know Hollister would only clear about 3M or so

  83. BobbyK

    What would be the mood of people here if the Seahawks did the following in the next week:

    1. Signed Clay Matthews
    2. Traded for ____________ (Dunlap, McKinley, Kerrigan, Fackrell, etc.)

    • Ralphy

      Hopeful. Still pissed about the offseason, but hopeful after those two moves.

      • Big Mike

        Same as Ralphy

  84. cha

    Dallas Stars taking their cue from the Action Green.

  85. Sea Mode

    Is Poe still any good?

    Tom Pelissero

    The #Cowboys have informed DT Dontari Poe and CB Daryl Worley they’ll be released if Dallas can’t trade them today, per sources. Big changes continue for Dallas D.

    • dcd2

      Looks old and ineffective. After looking at his salary, I doubt any team will want to pay that. He’ll get cut and sign for the vet minimum if he wants to stay in the show.

  86. Sea Mode

    We should just collect all the “David Moore” possible on the Seahawks!

  87. dcd2

    You guys are thinking way to ambitiously. Dunlap, Cox, Takk, Kerrigan, Q Williams…. these seem as likely as the Hawks deciding that one of us should replace John as GM because they’ve been scouring the internet for great ideas.

    Dontari Poe for a conditional 7th, or better yet, hope that the Boys drop him and we can get him after waivers. That’s the kind of ‘savior’ that might be coming.

    I’m only saying this so, that when those guys do get traded and it isn’t to us, that it will not come as so much of a letdown.

    • dcd2

      Haha. Couldn’t have waited 8 minutes to post this?

      Assuming this isn’t an #EveryoneLovesNudez troll-job, I wonder who I should declaratively say that we aren’t getting next.

      • Norman

        Quick, post about how we definitely aren’t getting Ryan Kerrigan!

      • Simo

        Yep, please hurry and tell us all we aren’t getting Kerrigan!!

  88. millhouse-serbia

    We have traded for Dunlap.

  89. JUJUS

    Bengals traded DE Carlos Dunlap to the Seahawks, source tells ESPN. Will be official after 4 pm.

    • Big Mike

      Josina calling up her former co-workers

    • Big Mike

      In all seriousness I sincerely hope this is true and I get a helping of crow for saying they’d do nothing. As others have said, this is more a band-aid than anything but stopping even some of the bleeding can only help.

      • dcd2


      • Simo

        Man, they just had to give this a try! Who knows if Dunlap will be any good, but hopefully he’s extremely motivated to be on a top team and get a fresh start! Be interesting to hear what they had to give up.

        Let’s also keep the momentum going and get the second pass rusher we need! Then, if we actually do get Taylor back this year, the pass rush might be passable!!

  90. Chase

    Schefter’s Tweet for those who are as shocked as I am.

    Bengals traded DE Carlos Dunlap to the Seahawks, source tells ESPN. Will be official after 4 pm.— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 28, 2020

    • Big Mike

      As I said above, happy to chow on the crow.
      Guesses as to what the Hawks gave up? Hopefully a 6th. Hollister?

      • Chase

        Likely our 2nd with the way John and Pete have been deciding on things lately. /s

      • dcd2 saying it’s a player and a pick

    • Hawks_Gui

      Looks like a player and a pick

    • cha

      Ian Rapoport
      This deal includes a player and a pick, not just a pick.

  91. JLemere

    According to Rapaport, it will be a player and one draft pick for Dunlap. It is Finney? It is Barton?

    • Jordan E

      BJ Fricken Finney!!

  92. JD

    NFL Network reporting it is for a pick and player. Quick! Anyone want to guess who the player and what pick?

    • JD

      My guess – 5th and Jacob Hollister

      • Rob4q

        Finney + 5th for Dunlap and a 6th

        • Sea Mode

          Mine is similar: Finney + R6 for Dunlap + R7

          • JD

            Confirmed Finney to Cincy

    • Chase

      Jamal Adams and a 2024 1st

    • Robert

      A 5th and bj Finney

      • jed

        Close … Schefter is saying Finney + 7th

      • MyChestisBeastMode

        Cody Barton or Shaquem

  93. James Cr.

    BJ Finney – clears space and Cinci saw him play for Pittsburgh.

  94. cha

    Carlos Dunlap brings a $4.8M salary to the #Seahawks for 2020, then a non-guaranteed $11.25M in 2021.
    His trade leaves behind dead cap hits of $6.18M & $2.25M to the #Bengals over this & next season.

    • Rob4q

      Player to be moved has to be Finney…money is too similar…

  95. Scot04

    Hope it’s not higher than our 2022 6th. But knowing what we gave up for Adams could be our 2021 4th with a player.
    Atleast they aquired someone. Know they need a 2nd edge on top of that trade before the the deadline

    • Hawks_Gui

      We were also linked to ryan anderson from WFT

  96. Hawks_Gui

    Bj finney

  97. Sea Mode

    Adam Schefter

    Compensation update: Seahawks are sending OL B.J. Finney and a 7th-round pick to the Bengals in exchange for DE Carlos Dunlap, per source.

    • SoCal12

      I think it’s a good deal. Probably the best we could’ve expected honestly.

      • Gohawks5151

        Wow. Agreed. Good job. Though i feel like we all lowered the bar a bit

    • Robbie

      Very happy with the compensation. Finney a poor offseason addition, and a 7th. I like this. Really hope they are not done. Keep going John, give us more!

    • Scot04

      Great deal. Now we need yo just add one more.

  98. Ukhawk

    Need a speedy LEO now… Takk or Uchenna Nwosa please

  99. Jordan E

    Oh man. The injury report not looking good for today. Quill out. Ugo & Iupati Doubtful. Ryan Neal + Mayowa + Jamal questionable.

    Russ needs to cook like crazy tonight to have a chance to win.

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