The Seahawks aren’t going anywhere

This feels different.

The Seahawks under Pete Carroll have had some tough losses over the years. For the most part though, to Carroll’s credit, he’s fielded a team capable of making a difficult outing a close contest.

The 2023 Seahawks are different because they simply can’t do it. Instead, they’re being exposed. The Ravens and 49ers have brutally shown them up. They’ve made it abundantly clear that not only are the Seahawks not at their level, they’re not even close to reaching it.

Having pumped resources into the roster — using a treasure-trove of picks courtesy of the Russell Wilson trade, borrowing their 2024 second rounder on a Leonard Williams rental and using every dollar available to them in cap space both this year and next, they’ve played their hand. Yet the end product is poor.

This isn’t just a young, upstart team taking its lumps. They have young players going through the early years of their careers but every team has that. The reality in Seattle is this is a very expensively acquired roster and far more should be expected from it than 37-3 in Baltimore and 31-13 at home against the 49ers — a scoreline that could’ve easily been far worse.

So much is wrong currently but you have to start with the offense.

I can’t recall a unit so poorly managed as this. Going into the season it looked like a major strength. They had exciting skill-players everywhere. They had a veteran quarterback. The offensive line received investment including a top-10 pick at left tackle. Everything was set up.

Instead of being a strength the offense is a disaster.

The route concepts are so painfully basic. They fail to challenge opponents with any serious misdirection or creativity. They spent two second round picks on the running back position and it’s an afterthought in the offense.

D.K. Metcalf is regressing badly. Geno Smith has regressed badly. They don’t know how to involve the tight ends in the passing game. Tyler Lockett isn’t being used enough.

They get almost no push up front with the offensive line and they’re being bullied most weeks.

Third downs? Awful, week after week. Red zone offense? As bad as you’ll ever see.

The whole thing is broken.

How could they come out in this game against a common opponent and not have anything to throw at them? They started the game with a quarterback draw from a QB who’d spent the entire week nursing an injury. If it wasn’t a draw and simply a blown play, what does that say for the organisation of the offense if you botch your first offensive play in a scripted series?

The next two play-calls? A throw that required Smith to arm it out to the sideline or risk an interception (again, with a bad injury to his arm) and then a dropped interception. This, of course, after being gifted great field position by a Dee Eskridge kick return.

How was that the plan? Especially from a team still claiming they want to run the ball — claims made by their words and actions (drafting Walker & Charbonnet). Then look at the 49ers. Creative, different, deceptive, imaginative, fast.

Whatever happens, it’s impossible to see how Shane Waldron can carry on beyond this season. This is a unit that had everything to succeed and instead it’s a hopeless mess.

He isn’t alone. D.K. Metcalf is on a contract worth $24m a year. They aren’t getting value for money. Geno Smith was far from ‘the problem’ tonight but he isn’t the solution either. You are not going to elevate yourself from what we’ve seen this year to a true contender with Smith under center. They have to draft a quarterback and pair him with a far more productive offensive play-caller.

Defensively it’s difficult to know how far to go. Every week there seems to be a caveat that the offense was so bad, the defense is absolved somewhat of blame. They made some nice stops against the 49ers and had a pick-six for the only touchdown of the game for Seattle. Yet they’re just so easy to play against at times.

Bobby Wagner was picked on again, with Kyle Shanahan following Sean McVay in identifying his lack of mobility in space as an area to exploit. It looked like his feet were made of concrete in the first half. Tackling was poor across the board. They gave up 169 rushing yards (so much for that being fixed) and the D-line was pushed around almost as much as the O-line. Pass rush? Nobody was able to beat a man to make a big play.

Devin Witherspoon is a quality player. He can’t do it on his own though.

Seattle had to make life difficult for Brock Purdy while containing Christian McCaffrey as much as they could. They failed in both areas.

Think about how much has been spent on this unit. Three recent second round picks on edge rushers (Taylor, Mafe, Hall). A huge free agent splash (Jones). An aggressive trade on a rental involving a second rounder (Williams). Another reasonable free agent addition (Reed). A first rounder at linebacker (Brooks) paired with a returning veteran (Wagner). A top-five pick at cornerback (Witherspoon) and a hugely expensive safety duo (Diggs & Adams) with one of the pair costing a fortune via trade. Then you’ve got all the big salaries dished out to the likes of Nwosu, Jones, Diggs and Adams.

Is there a team in the league that has used this much resource on the defense? At this level you expect more than simply beating up Daniel Jones behind a shocking Giants line and competing against the Carolina’s and Arizona’s. You expect a unit that can make you competitive. It isn’t happening.

I’ll finish with the man at the top, Pete Carroll.

It’s clear there was a marked difference in the preparedness to play this game. Kyle Shanahan had his team on it — exploiting weaknesses, flying out of the traps and dominating. The Seahawks were flat, slow and timid.

They don’t have an identity, they don’t do anything noticeably better than any other team and they’ve just been hammered twice in a matter of weeks.

Carroll will always be revered in Seattle for winning the cities’ first Super Bowl. Rightly so. He’s reset the team twice since the LOB glory days though and neither revamp has produced a team getting close to contention. The first reset was carried by Russell Wilson’s peak years. The second is currently sporting a 15-14 record without him.

Where are the Seahawks going under Carroll? There’s no signs of a team climbing the ladder. On recent evidence, they’ve fallen off it.

They’ve been trying for years to get back to the top table. It’s not happening. When does the wait become too long? Will winning two from three against the Titans, Steelers and Cardinals at the end of the year and backing into the playoffs as a seventh seed make everything OK, only to experience another game like we just saw against the 49ers in the wildcard round? What if they now miss the playoffs?

Will Carroll simply firing Waldron and going for the next name on the offensive coordinator list be enough to keep the wolves from the door? Or is it time for this franchise to go and find its own version of Shanahan and McVay if it’s serious about becoming a contender again?

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  1. UkAlex6674

    100% agreed.

    But I do think the squad is there for the most part in place.

    It’s just a criminal use the way they are used.

    It’s time. Leave while there is some shred of dignity.

    • Peter

      It I’d tricky because right now the coaching is objectively poor and it would’ve curious how it all would look with a new everything amongst the coaches.

  2. BeingZinfull

    The offense is obviously in a rut, both execution-wise and playcall ingenuity-wise. But the defense has regressed even more over the last few games. They’ve given up 6 passing TDs in the last 4 games, and 6 rushing TDs, a marked increase. This defense is now allowing a staggering amount of red zone opportunities to convert to TDs. The defense has held only two opponents – the Cardinals and Giants – under 50% red zone conversion, and allowed 6 of their 2023 opponents to score on every red zone trip.

    Being the second-most expensive defense in the league, under a so-called defensive head coach, this level of output is embarrassing and unacceptable, but Pete Carroll does not seem to even acknowledge this in his pressers. It’s a sad state of affairs.

  3. Dubb

    Waldron will be the scapegoat, but I’m not sure how much control he has of the offense. Is it Waldron’s decision to play Peters, Brown and Haynes (instead of Olu or Bradford). We have not had a decent screen game in Carroll’s tenure, why would it be any different with a new OC? How about a TE seam pattern versus cover 2? Waldron will be fired, but Pete’s offenses were never creative, he just had the talent to mask his lack of creativity.

    • Parallax

      The day that Waldron’s fired, I’ll say “another one bites the dust”. Feels like we’re arranging deck chairs on the titanic. At this point, it’s time for much deeper and far reaching changes.

  4. UkAlex6674

    It’s tiresome football to watch.

  5. Jesse

    It’s funny, after that horrible Superbowl loss my dad said this coach will never win or get to another Superbowl and I thought he was crazy. He thought this because of how they loss in a way that’s considered the worse call in NFL history. The truth is the X’s and O’s passed him up years ago and I don’t think he’s ever even tried to adapt. Why did we get a McVay OC, just to run an offense that was competitive before Brett Favre was drafted? I believe the proof is the lack of passing in the middle- Shane Waldron isn’t Sean McVay, but I’ve seen Waldron create some good plays that have probably been stripped out of the playbook by Carroll. A go ball to DK or a deep crossing route to Lockett is never going to work when opposing defenses watch tape and see that defending the middle of the field isn’t necessary for this team. It’s been a decade since Seattle was actually good. I haven’t seen a Seahawks team play a good game on offense and defense in 8 years; it’s always been one or the other. I can’t agree more about the cap. I think the world of John Schneider, he has a really good eye for talent. How are we paying 1/5 of the salary cap to two safeties rated below other teams BACKUPS. We have two more years of this, I doubt Pete Carroll is going anywhere, the only silver lining to me is, John Schneider, or his scouts seems to have a good eye for QBs. They wanted Mahomes,to trade for Josh Allen and obviously RW. Hopefully they find a QB to run this archaic offense and the next HC will at least have that.

  6. DriveByPoster

    I think your first sentence is both spot on & wrong, Rob.

    To me this game felt awfully familiar in a very depressing way. Not a repetition of recent games but of the game that, really, levelled up the Seahawks expectations; the Denver Superbowl game. Except this time round we are Denver.

    That Seahawks team was, both mentally & physically, fast, strong, mean & technically excellent. This one ain’t any of those things. After roster churning his way to glory in 2013, Pete Carroll has gradually turned us into that outdated, outmoded, out-thought & out-fought Denver team that was utterly pummelled in the Superbowl.

    On that occasion, as happens so often, the loser learnt more than the winner & Denver realised that they had to make radical changes (although I think that, as an organisation, they have never really recovered from that game). Maybe now the Seahawks will make changes too.

  7. Robert Las Vegas

    You know 3 weeks ago the Las Vegas Raiders fired the GM the Head Coach and offensive coordinator. now w all know the raiders are a crappy organization and haven’t done anything for the last 20 years. But when Mark Davis goes a press conference and was asked why he fired these individuals he replied ” I didn’t like are direction and I didn’t like the progress we were making” Now the Seahawks will never go in this direction.If the Seahawks lose to Dallas, Philadelphia and 49ers that would be what 5 losses in a row. you have to change something up right.

    • Ashish

      5 loss is definitely on card and it’s not fun. Enough is enough offense is pathetic
      They have top notch players but very bad utilizing

  8. downtownjewelrybryan

    geno interviewed while getting treatment on the conference table …WTH was that?!

    • Rokas

      Does it matter?

    • Wnoa57nc1

      …but Geni is such a feel good story. He may not be a good NFL QB, and may not like to drive sober, but he was able to overcome being a bust QB to become a mediocre QB.

      • Parallax

        I love your dry, cynical humor. Plus your observation is spot on.

        • BobbyK


    • Elmer

      He played injured. There is no backup. Not that they want to use, anyway. Sweet freaking dzeezus, go find one!

      Metcalf relies on size, strength, and speed. Not skill. I would rather have a Doug Baldwin WR.

      • Elmer

        And don’t get me started on the OL. The injuries to Cross and Lucas ruined the offense. They cut a T depth piece, Curhan. In favor of two rookies off of other practice squads that they never use. If they are any good, use them! If not, cut them loose.

        They need help at G. Make it a draft priority to find someone who can be really effective.0

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      Honestly, I thought that sushi was going to be brought out and placed atop Geno for the journos to eat.

      • Palatypus

        That’s a Peyton Manning kind of move back at Tenessee.

        Or in the modern day, Deshaun Watson.

        Poor Melissa Stark.

  9. GoHawksDani

    Just forget it.
    Until Pete goes, this team won’t go anywhere.
    Changing Waldron and Hurtt might help a bit, but I doubt. This team needs a MAJOR re-haul.
    Coaching staff needs to go asap.

    As for the players:
    OT – Cross and Lucas are good/decent, but not sure about the seriousness of Lucas’s injury, so it might be a need. Backups are decent
    OG – Hayness, Lewis, Bradford…I’m just not sold. OKish players, but I don’t think they’re definitive starters.
    C – dunno, both seem OK. Not elite or exceptional, but decent/good starters

    WR – I’d trade DK. He’s just not good enough to be a clear WR1, but they force the ball to him, like he was. He’ll decline because his strengths are his physical qualities. If we could get a late R1 or an early R2, I might pull the trigger. I think Lockett is a hidden gem, or an undervalued one at least. He’s the model boy of the constant quality playing. But he’s getting older, so I’d keep him and use him as WR1, but we need to think about the future. JSN had an awesome catch. I think he’ll be a good/great player, so it’s nice we drafted him. He could be WR2 and maybe step in if Lockett starts to decline. I like Bobo also, and he could work as WR3 right now I think, but his ceiling might be that. If we trade DK, we need to draft a couple of WRs in the upcoming years (R2-4 could be a good range depending on BPA and value)

    RB – I like Charbonnet. He won’t break 30-40yard runs, but he rarely loose yards, has a good hands and can give you 2-6 yards as a default. With decent blocking he can break out 10-20 yards too and can catch the ball and decent at pass blocking. I also like K9. He’s the opposite. He’ll regularly lose 1-3 yards but can also take a -3 yard play and make it a +14yard, and he can break out 40-50 yard runs occasionally. But not a huge fan of Dallas. It depends on McIntosh, but I think we could do cheaper than DJ and maybe better with a late round rookie if McIntosh is not working out.

    TE – All OK, none great. It might just be the way we use them. I wouldn’t cut any of them based on their play, but if the money is high, I could say goodbye to any of them. I’d like to use them more, or if they’re not up to the task, get a true TE1

    QB – Yeah…I won’t say too much bad about Geno, because he might’ve been hurt, but if he plays like that without the injury, I’d bench him and cut him mid-season. It was an awful display. And based on his play during the season, I’d cut him at the end. He might be better than Lock, but he’s clearly not good enough. He’s not an elite QB and he won’t elevate a team…he’s barely even an OK starter. I’d swap him with Mr Irrelevant Purdy in a heartbeat. I would cut him and take my shots at QB next season by drafting 2 and making a competition between the 2 rookies and Lock. If they suck because they didn’t win the QB lottery so be it, we can draft QBs until they get lucky with one.

    DL – I don’t understand 3-4 that much so I’ll list here all the players who’d be on the line in a 4-3:
    Edwards Jr – I wouldn’t miss him. Dre’Mont Jones – worst FA acquisition like ever, he’s a ghost, cut him asap. Williams – he’s a good player and I hope we can keep him, but wouldn’t push too many dollars into his new contract. Young – no idea, didn’t notice him yet. Clark – burned out, cut him. Mafe – good one, keep him, he could be a key piece to the line. Taylor – usually bad with some highlights, but I’d cut him, he’s a liability most of the times. Reed – Another key player, keep him. Hall – rookie, 1-2 good plays, didn’t notice him otherwise, so he might play little or plays not that good, I’d give him 1-2 years before writing him down. Nwosu – good player, but probably a passrush rotational guy.
    So yeah, we have Reed and Mafe. Maybe Nwosu and Williams if the price is right. We need more, much more and probably some depth too.

    LB – I like Brooks. He’s not a top5 LB, and sometimes he can be overhyped, and he lacks some skills as a pass defender, but he can do a couple of things pretty well. I would keep him if possible. BWagz – Et sic gloria mundi…once a great player, now a liability. He’s pretty awful. Like has 1 or 2 good plays per games and 10-15 horrible mistakes. He’s old and slow and takes bad angles. He needs to go. So does Bush. We need an MLB

    S – Yeah…please cut everyone. Love can give you 2-3 great plays per season, but most of the times he makes mistakes. Adams is OK sometimes even pretty good, but no way he’s worth that much money. For like 5m/year? Sign me up, but more than that and he’s just like he’s coffee mug…overpriced and does the same as the other general mugs. Diggs is a one trick pony – run fast, throw your body, if you hit and don’t richocet off of the other player you’re good…but most of the times he misses or just boink down to the O player’s body. We need to go cheaper, but without losing quality (and hopefully gaining too)

    CB – Not sure…Spoon is awesome with some rookie warts, hopefully he can overcome those and then he could be a cornerstone guy. Woolen is a decent CB, who could be great but also making stupid errors. I wouldn’t move on from him, but he doesn’t feel elite, only good enough. Brown can do good or bad…he might just needs more time. He’s similar to Riq, maybe with a lower ceiling. With Jackson and Bryant we have some depth, so I wouldn’t push to many resources into this group. Maybe late round picks so they compete for depth/backup spots.

    So as I see it now…we need:
    New coaches ASAP
    Overhaul safety position
    New good LB
    New QB
    Like at least 2-3 guys on the DL/OLB (after cutting down the dead weight)
    Maybe an RT
    Maybe an OG
    Maybe a WR (if DK gets traded)

    It feels like we’ll have another rebuild

    • BK26

      They aren’t drafting 2 qb’s, nor should they. You can’t have a group of guys competing trying to find one to work out. Do the work, find YOUR guy, get him. Do what you can for him and with him. If he doesn’t work out, try again. Don’t starve the rest of the draft.

      • Pack of K9s

        True. Get your guy, dont sign Matt Flynn and draft a 3rd round rookie and then let them compete.

    • Peter

      Thoughts in no particular order:

      Trade DK. He’s not a #1.

      Also and this hurts, neither is Tyler. Basically the same targets, better catch rate gets 10.5 yards a catch. So while he’s 10% points higher on catch percent somehow DK still stretches the field ( quote/unquote) more than him.

      I like JSN. Right now his stat line is “highly productive #3 reciever.” I think he can be more than that maybe in the future, certainly on a better team.

      I like Lewis but I’m fine with him walking. The coaches wasted him by their own choice. He was one of the better( best?) Rated rookie Guards and they moved him on the line for him to be worse and the RG spot to be worse.

      Bradford could actually be good. Imagine a run heavy team with that bear of a player….but let’s flip flop him and Haynes for reasons.

      Seattle had a good almost great Center once. In a decade I’ve seen everything but a good center. Projects, misused olinemen, low budget low result free agents. Everything but identifying a good center.

      Disagree with Nwossu. Big snap eater. Big loss this year.

      • Elmer

        Yeah. Nwosu is a huge loss. They can’t replace him from the current roster.

  10. Joseph


    It frustrates me how Petehawk fans and the Seattle media don’t hold him accountable. They look to blame anyone else BUT him! The fans saying “fire Waldron” are the same people who said fire bevel and schotty. They never look at Pete. Like I said before in the comments, Pete has a free accountability pass because he won the sb 10 years ago!!!!

    • Parallax

      Yes, sometimes it seems that Pete and Geno are sacrosanct. Sacred cows of a sort. I don’t see this team evolving in a positive direction while either is in his current position.

  11. Big Mike

    The route concepts are so painfully basic. They fail to challenge opponents with any serious misdirection or creativity

    Chris Simms, is that you?
    Simms has been saying this for years.

    • Big Mike

      A new OC will make no difference. It’s all Pete and we know it. As Rob said, only Jerruh has more power in a franchise.
      Pete, you’re tarnishing whatever legacy you have left. Step aside and end it at least somewhat gracefully.

      • Joseph

        He keeps deluding himself into thinking his philosophies and how he wants things to be run on offense and defense aren’t working. He’s too stubborn and controlling. And it doesn’t help that we have an incompetent so called owner who doesn’t do anything about it. Unfortunately we’re stuck with this.

    • Troy

      They don’t attack or use the center of the field at all. So frustrating to watch. Meanwhile Shanahan attacks every inch of the field.

      • Peter

        Pete doesn’t watch to risk it. Dk’s probably regressing but what Pete needs is 3 Bobo’s. Slow, reliable hands, whether you run routes well or not is immaterial can you run straight towards the pylon or 1st down marker? That’ll work….except when it doesnt.

        • Parallax

          Yes, Pete is so risk adverse and it’s killing us. Prevents experimentation. He doesn’t trust or empower his assistants. The opposite in that sense from DeBoer, who finds good people and let’s them do their thing. I’ve heard him talk about how Grubb sometimes makes calls that surprise him but why it’s important as head coach to give him the freedom to run the offense. We know DeBoer could do it just as well, but he’s smart enough to know not to. He can’t do everything so he has to trust his lieutenants.

  12. Big Mike

    Hey it just dawned on me, the Hawks won then 2nd half 10-7! They’ve turned the corner. Pete made a few adjustments and they are rolling!!

    (nm that the O hasn’t scored a TD since the first quarter vs. the Rams)

    • Rob Staton

      Carroll literally highlighted ‘winning the second half after the game’


      • Big Mike

        As predictable as a sunrise in the eastern portion of the sky. “Embarrassing” is being kind.

      • geoff u

        If you take the first half of the playoff game and the second half of this one, untechnically we actually beat the 49ers once. Also, if you rearrange all the halves of football this year in the propper order, we are actually undefeated!

        • Peter


          I just take the niners rushing offense, the Ravens rushing offense, all explosive runs, all qb runs, any other run play I don’t like and throw it out…easily an elite run defense.

      • Elmer

        Under the positive exterior he’s pissed at the offensive staff for being unable to design something effective. To me, the offensive problems come down to this:

        1. The receivers can’t get open quickly
        2. The OL doesn’t give Geno much time
        3. The OL can’t run block very well either

        Yes, I am in favor of drafting a QB. But if you have a shit OL, any QB or any RB is going to have a tough time. Anther draft priority is indicated, right?

    • Peter

      My friend there will literally be takes like that.

      I’ve heard for a year how we were right there with niners in the playoffs.

      This year I’ve heard how it was pretty close against the Ravens.

      Love my ‘friends’ on radio telling me after Brooks pick 6 we were making a game of it.

      The only thing I thought was Rob was going to be right and they’d get with one score on a little stat padding for Geno.

      • AlaskaHawk

        The teams minor success against the 49ers prevent defense proved once and for all to me that prevent defenses don’t work!

        • geoff u

          0 points in the second half against the Rams blowout. 0 points in the second half against the Ravens. 3 points in the second half against the 9ers. I’d say the prevent defense worked pretty damn well against us.

          • AlaskaHawk

            The Seahawks were moving the ball very well against the prevent defense. But they still have their red zone woes.

  13. Sea Mode

    Until PC is gone, what else is there to say?

    • Troy

      This right here. I am so done with everything Pete Carroll. His teams are sloppy and predictable and have been for years. Until there is a change at the top, expect more of the same.

      • Joseph

        And expect the clueless, brainwashed fanbase and Seattle media to keep defending him and blame someone else.

        • Parallax

          I think that’s finally starting to turn. I hope so. Whether ownership is listening I don’t know. The problem with an owner richer than God is she doesn’t need to worry about season ticket sales or anything so quotidian.

          • Joseph

            Jody Allen is an incompetent owner who only cares about money, same with the Mariners owner. Not to mention her personal relationship with Pete. She’s just waiting for the right time to get the highest bidder for the Seahawks and Trail Blazers. Trail Blazers are also a mess. Shes lucky because wouldn’t be in this position if it wasn’t for Paul. Man do I miss Paul Allen. I’m sure he wouldn’t have let it get this outta hand. But man do I can’t wait for the day Pete is gone!

  14. RMK-LouCityHawk

    “Or is it time for this franchise to go and find its own version of Shanahan and McVay if it’s serious about becoming a contender again?”

    How can anyone who has endured four consecutive losses to the 9ers, and the the week in, week out, failure that has been this season think or feel differently.

    A small part of me wanted to believe that the Ravens-Commies-Rams disasters were Carroll prepping the team for the 9ers weeks in advance…obviously not the case.

    I’ve been pounding the drum this season, that Carroll needs to leave before we end up like the Patriots, I thought that meant no new contract, I now believe that means this off-season.

    You can’t lose to your rival like this, with the specter of another game against them losing. If Carroll, Waldron, Hurtt were all walked today I wouldn’t find it unjust. Promote Izzo to HC, Olson to OC, Scott to DC and let them use the next 7 games to figure it out. I doubt they could do much worse.

    I suggested after the week 1 loss that at least two captains should be cut or traded, I feel that was the right call at the time.

  15. Troy

    50% of the stadium was Niner fans. Where’s Pete’s shout out to the 12’s? Oh wait, because they weren’t there.
    Embarrassing times to be a Seahawk fan.

    • Joseph

      You think thats a sign fans are turning on him?

    • Troy

      It’s a sign of the product on the field.

    • Cawww

      It was actually like 10% Niners fans. Just felt like more because of the score.

      • Rob Staton

        It was more than 10%

        The entire lower bowl across from me was a sea of red

        I’d say 35% Niners

        • Peter

          On radio it sounded like they were playing in Santa clara.

  16. Big Mike

    Which loss was more embarrassing, the week 1 loss to the Rams, last week’s loss to them, the Ravens game, last night? So many to choose from. But hey, it IS Thanksgiving after all and in the spirit of the holiday we have a cornucopia of ineptitude to feast on with this question.

  17. Cysco

    I think there’s a distinction between a “Coach” and a “Leader”.

    I just don’t think Pete is a good coach. Those Super Bowl years were courtesy of an immense amount of talent. Pete was able to use his leadership to get those guys to buy in and play as a team, but even then there were plenty of games and plays where his lack of coaching skill was exposed.

    Today’s teams don’t have near the amount of talent those old teams did and the lack of coaching skill is being truly exposed.

    I really wish Pete would move into a role where he can be a figurehead/leader but leave the coaching and day to day of running the team to someone(s) else. I just don’t think his ego would let him do it.

    • Big Mike

      but even then there were plenty of games and plays where his lack of coaching skill was exposed.

      Jeff Fisher called. He likes your post. And Malcom Butl…….

    • king

      I think Pete is a great leader and fantastic coach. I also think he is delusional and an inept strategist and tactician.

      • Hawkdawg

        Can’t be all those things simultaneously. Fantastic coaches don’t put this sort of product, with this personnel, on the field.

        • king

          I stand by it. I think he is a great motivator, a very good teacher, and has a strong fundamental understanding of the game. Within the context of what he is attempting to do on the field, he gets strong performances from his team, as evidenced by consistently producing winning seasons.

          Yet he has a completely inadequate understanding of what it takes to win at the highest levels of the modern game, which leads to bad mistakes in team building over the long run, and inferior game plans relative to the top coaches in the game. He seems to genuinely believe not only in an approach that, in my opinion, is and always has been inferior, but also that his team is always just a few tweaks away when it in reality needs some significant renovations.

          Give him a great roster and he will compete for titles, which a bad motivator/leader/coach can’t do, so yeah I think all of that seemingly contradictory stuff can be true at the same time.

          • AlaskaHawk

            I think your saying Pete is good at basic training and motivational leadership.

            But he shouldn’t be anywhere near play design, game play training, and contract management.

  18. CL

    The good thing about all of this?

    The sentiment within the fanbase is starting to shift immensely. If Reddit gets angry / mad about the state of the franchise / offense / defense, you know it’s really bad.

    After at least 2 losses out of the next 3 games, more likely even 3 out of 3, I think the whole fanbase will be united again.

    Not that it’s super important, but it might show the need for changes and drastical ones.

    • Peter

      Before the game some deluded fans were hoping the niners would look beyond us and that’s how we would win.

      The problem I see coming up is Dallas, niners again, eagles are all still within striking distance of the #1 seed so I don’t see any of them looking to cake walk it against us.

      • CL

        Yeah definitely.

        I’m honestly expecting a really, really rough stretch.

        Not expecting anything from this offense either, considering PC and coordinators, but maybe we’ll at least get some stretches where we’re somewhat competitive.

        • Peter

          I would love to see it. This is a miserable product now. Jason Myers is worth 12 more points on offense than our entire passing attack combined over the last four games…..horrible.

  19. Austin Slater

    People blaming Waldron are wild. Waldron came from the Rams who use flood concepts underneath and run outside. What does Seattle do? What Pete has always done. Deep outside the numbers to avoid turnovers(isn’t working) run up the middle and try to hit the explosive play. This looks nothing like the Rams offense other than a couple of wrinkles. Waldron is doing what he’s told to do. Pete is stubborn and can’t see his blind spot and thinks if Geno just tried a little harder we can do it! It’s archaic goofy bullshit and it won’t change until Pete is gone.

  20. Mr drucker in hooterville

    This isn’t a rhetorical question…. WHAT is Jody Allen thinking? I t seems she gets here advice from Pete Carroll. If I am right, what is she thinking? She isn’t going to replace him. Jody, make the call or sell the team. Your car is leaking oil while the driver smiles and waves.

    • Parallax

      Of course I don’t know Jody Allen. We know she’s the sister of the guy who bought the team. We know he was a visionary in the creation of Microsoft and the redevelopment of Seattle neighborhoods. When he bought the team, he seemed to have a vision and then, after hiring the right people, he stepped to the side and let Carroll and Schneider do their thing. There’s no way to know if he would have stepped in by now, had he lived. We know that his sister fell into fantastic wealth and doesn’t seem particularly involved. She was persuaded by whomever to give Pete and John lucrative new contracts just when I thought it time to move on from at least Pete. Perhaps John too, depending on the truth about who’s been making the decisions on draft picks, trades, free agent signings, contract offers to vets and the like.

  21. 805Hawk

    I am convinced that it’s Pete’s roster, Pete’s coordinators, Pete’s philosophy, Pete’s lack of discipline, Pete’s clock management, and it should be Pete’s head on the chopping block. It’s time. It’s stale and unimaginative. Move on. (But we all know that ain’t gonna happen.)

  22. Peter

    I’m in a spot with this team. I found it darkly comedic that the sale ( if ever) can not happen until the next draft and Free agent period.

    As of this morning I really wouldn’t mind doing something stupid like draft only defense or draft a center/guard pick one.

    I know,I know, Pete this, John that. Too me I think those goofs are thick as thieves.

    Pro for John and “his,” staff….the drafts have been solid. I’m sorry to do this but the product on the field and how I felt about those drafts is a growing chasm. Cross is kind of an Okung. Bradford is missing reps for reasons. Team can’t run with two RB’s. JSN because problems beyond his pay scale is playing like “solid reciever.” Not first WR off the board. Mafe actually rules but has very little help out there. Witherspoon is being let down by one of the worst safety groups. That last TD….if Wyman says the safeties are just standing there…oof.

    On the con side: the contracts. The free agents. The Pete saying Williams was John’s guy. You’ve been crushing it in the draft so you waste a pick for zero reason….awesome.

    All this to say I don’t know that I want Pete, John, or both picking the next qb. I know….Wilson, and the picks that never were. But also real interest in Andy Dalton, someone traded for Whitehurst, and thought Lock should be part of the trade package for Wilson which has all been dudsville.

    We saw a good sometimes great QB cover up a mediocre team for a few years. Will they find that in the draft?

    Feels like the way they’ve spent, the age at spots, the lack of qb plan that this is a bigger problem than let’s draft Rattler, Ewers, Penix for the Dawgs out there and problem solved.

    • Big Mike

      Wyman actually said that? Holy hell, I’ve entered the twilight zone.

      • Peter

        I don’t know if he missed his turkey dinner or what but he was in a state last night.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          4 straight losses to the 9ers.

          I don’t want to be the Patriots, time to move on now.

          • Peter

            Low key point but coaches that can’t handle their division get let go.

            Last year the bleeping nfc south had us.

            This year I can easily see us being 1-5 in division. Yep AZ.

      • Rob Staton

        But I was led to believe Quandre Diggs was in fact amazing because people on Twitter told him so and he agreed

        • Peter

          Tin foil hat: those are all Diggs’ burner accounts and he spends more time doing that than studying game tape.

          • Rob Staton

            If only that were true

          • Palatypus

            Was it made before or after it covered Turkey?

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Move on from Carroll today, that is the best move – that was an unacceptable effort. Give JS full authority to plan the replacement. He is there through 2027, if the ‘JS is the real problem’ narrative proves to be true, plenty of time to move on from him and get everything going right.

      • Peter

        I’m fine with that. Hardest part of a journey is first step and all.

        Part of me thinks John can do it. Part of me wonders how different it would actually be. We pick up stuff from our mentors and he’s been here under Pete for forever.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          That’s been the wildest narrative. I’ve seen emerging today from Carroll defenders…. This is all JS’s fault!

          And then the rats ultimately turned on themselves

          • Peter

            I push back on JS because there’s no meaningful separation of duties. That said in no universe is this a JS fault.

            This is PC being unaccountable in the softest media market for forever.

            • Big Mike

              Carroll has ultimate authority on everything and thus imo has ultimate blame. I’m good with your proposal RMK. Let’s see what John can do without Pete running the show.
              Absolute power corrupts absolutely

              • JimQ

                I wonder if the Seahawk will ever be able to (1) define their system and style of play and
                (2) actually, select draft picks and acquired FA players that actually fit into and can function well in their system. What a concept. I would say the SF RB acquired this year is much more of a stud and impact player than our own vastly overpaid SS as a very good example (of many).

  23. Happy Hawk

    100% agree Rob. The Hawks are soooooo predictable you don’t even need to watch recent game film to prepare for them. The Hawks have some talent but the schemes on both sides of the ball are very easy to see coming it doesn’t matter. Pete has never been a good x/o coach and the team seems under prepared.

  24. TeeDeeBee_11

    Agreed. This era needs to end. Fire Pete. Hire Bellamy would be nice. Make JS the man. Cut Geno, paycut for Dissly or release. Don’t resign Fant, Loch or DLewis. Cut Bellore. Trade DK get our second round back. Resign L.Williams. Cut Diggs, keep Adams cut him year after. Don’t resign Wagner. Keep Julian Love.Dont resign DTaylor unless cheap. Draft QB, DE/DT, OG, DB/S, TE

  25. Denver Hawker

    Thankfully, the local media is starting to turn:

    Visitor jerseys at home games have also been a belweather that owners pay attention to.

    If the slide continues, I’ll be shocked if there aren’t big changes at the end of the season.

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      Every season ticket holder I know, about 100 total tickets, all sold -probably to 9ers fans.

      • Denver Hawker

        Denver has a no-show counter that tops 10k regularly – it can definitely get worse.

        I know there’s always the “be careful what you wish for” caveat from the Zorn jersey guys, but I’m ready for new owner, new coaching staff. This team is completely stuck in neutral until then.

        • Peter

          Strangely my sense is that the folks grasping on the legacy of Pete and the careful what you wish for folks skew newer.

          My family is diehard chuck knox era faithful and are over it.

          Folks that say careful what you wish for look all the world while I’m viewing them on pods or what not seem to be gen xers who missed the point that the whole team then was a joke.

          I’m sure there’s definitely Zorn jersey guys like that. But I’m a Kreig era fan and I’m not afraid in the slightest of change. This team parted with legendary coach Holmgren much, much quicker after the superbowl loss and that worked out.

          • Rob Staton

            A lot of Seahawks fans don’t know anything other than Carroll, either because they are too young or they adopted the team when they became trendy in 2012

            I remember similar sentiments about moving on from Holmgren. Careful what you wish for etc. And the first replacement bombed. But you had to take that step to get to Carroll and a Super Bowl win. So you can’t be scared of change and you have to embrace that things could get worse before they get better but that is superior to just experiencing the same thing over and over again

            • Big Mike

              I go all the way back to 1974 when it was announced that Seattle was going to get a team and start play in fall of ’76, when Kings was a strong consideration for the nickname. I was less than one month short of my 20th birthday when they kicked off against the Cardinals for that very first game. Not only am I not afraid of change, I crave it and have for about 4-5 years now.

              • SeaTown

                Same here Big Mike. I came on board in 1977. I’ve seen really good times and really bad times. While this is not as bad as the Flores era, we are squarely in Dennis Erickson territory in the late 90s. Those teams had talent and you always thought they should be better than they were but poor coaching doomed those teams. Firing Erickson led to Holmgren. Firing Mora led to Carroll. Time to see what firing Carroll leads to. Carroll’s magic is used up. He needs to go.

                • geoff u

                  I was having this exact same thought. Feels like Dennis Erickson’s back. A middling team that entices you with flashes but can never get it’s shit together.

                  • Seattle76

                    I was thinking this as well. It really shows up in the penalties and in the team’s inability to compete within the division. Erickson’s schemes were figured out the first year by the AFC West and he had no success against the teams he most needed to beat. How many years will McVay and Shanahan run circles around Carroll until a change comes?

                • Elmer

                  Watch closely. It might be medical. If so I expect that we will know sooner than later.

              • Blitzy the Clown

                My first game ever was the 1976 home game vs 49ers (how ironic)

                Also saw the Cowpukes, Lions, Saints and Bears that first year

    • Rob Staton

      MC who wrote that article is prepared to write those kind of pieces but in fairness, he’s pretty much on an island

      It’s understandable for some. The Seattle Times employs columnists and a reporter. The reporter sticks to the news and relays information. The columnists opine (MC)

  26. Blitzy the Clown

    One word kept coming to mind as I watched last night


    Hapless coaching. Unless Geno went off script from the first play, the game plan they prepared going into this was undeniably the wrong one. Rely more on your injured QB to make the play with his feet or his arm?

    Talk about wtf was up with a QB sneak to open the game, WTF was with a QB sneak on that 4th down in the 4th quarter? Especially when Charbonnet has on that very same drive converted a couple of crucial 3rd/4th down runs?!?

    Someone, anyone, help me understand that call.

    Route trees that make no sense in the context of down/distance. Some don’t even make sense in terms of spacing on the field.

    I’ll tell you this: Waldron won’t ever be a HC (unless it’s high school). He won’t go to another team and be a coordinator. If he sticks in the League, it’ll be as a position coach.

    But of course it’s not just Waldron. It’s Carroll. Seattle haven’t fielded a run-oriented offense in 3 or years.

    Hapless individual performances. The offensive failure wasn’t entirely on Geno. But it’s mostly on him. He took at least 2 crucial sacks (one in the red zone) to kill drives and force Seattle to settle for FGs. He knows the blitz is coming. He knows he has to get the ball out quickly. But he holds it, dances around, and folds.

    True his OL didn’t help him. But I don’t care. Wilson’s OL rarely helped him. He still made plays.

    Eh, I’m too disgusted to finish my rant

    • Rob Staton

      It’s a great rant to be fair

    • geoff u

      Maybe I’m seeing it wrong but I rarely get the impression it’s the o-line that’s the problem. At least in pass protection. It almost always looks like either geno holds the ball two long, slow to make a decision/can’t progress to second read, and/or there’s no hot route during a blitz. I’d have to go back and see, but rarely have the desire to rewarch a hawks game these days 😆

      • Peter

        It’s a real puzzle, wrapped inside a mystery box, covered with secret sauce about the oline.

        On the one hand they are hurt, they are missing starters….

        On the other hand they are playing starters I hear rave reviews about the oline protections ( against crap teams)

        But on the other hand I here about pressure rates

        However on the other hand I here about surprisingly good pass protection

        But…..I’ll hear about how we can’t run block

        Although….I’ll see some guys getting pretty good run block grades just not getting snaps….

        • geoff u

          Schrodinger’s o-line stuck in pandora’s box

      • Blitzy the Clown

        No, you see it right.

        To be fair, SF have the best DL in the NFL bar none. They’re gonna give any OL fits.

        But like Rob posted below, Charles Cross posting about a 75 against Bosa and Young…that’s respectable.

        I still can’t tell if it’s Geno messing with/up the scripted plays, or if the script is just crap.

        I can’t tell if Waldron can’t scheme to save himself — FFS how hard is it to realize the opposition is going to bring pressure on 3rd downs and adjust the play call accordingly? — or if Carroll is micromanaging things to death.

        The impression is Carroll is run-run-run. But since 2018 it hasn’t mattered who the OC is — Shotty or Waldron — the result is the same. Increasing reliance on the pass (or at best reliance on the pass to set up the run rather than the other way around).

        Anyway, if we’re gonna be stuck with a QB who makes multiple costly mistakes per game that result in turnovers by INT, fumble or failure to convert 3rd or 4th, let it be someone we aren’t paying $35m or more

        • geoff u

          100%. Can’t tell if it’s Waldron or Pete or both. Waldon does seem to have some interesting play designs, multiple backs/TEs offset in the backfield, but they seem splattered in with no real plan.

          And if your QB is mistake prone, maybe you use your two 2nd round backs to run the ball and minimize those chances… seems obvious anyway.

          This team has no direction or plan and it shows.

        • Peter

          Blitzy I think you’d really hit it off with the commenter named Blitzy….

          That first qb draw when they had them reeling from the only time Eskridge has ever done anything had me feeling like a broncos fan when the snap sailed over Mannings giant forehead.

          The play call there is a strike for a TD to make the game even.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Legit loled over that Manning memory analogy!

    • TJ

      I agree with 100% of what you said here. I do think the first play was a broken play. It looked to me like Geno expected Charbonnet to go the opposite direction. That doesn’t change anything though. Like was said above, how can you mess up the first play of the game, which is always a scripted play with lots of practice reps.

  27. Denver Hawker

    I don’t believe we have a major player personnel gap from elite teams. We do have some bad contracts to cleanup.

    Geno and Bobby have peaked and are becoming liabilities at critical positions. Diggs already playing on borrowed time at this point. But where else is there really a glaring hole?

    I still see adequate team speed and playmaking abilities, but the players seem hesitant, out of position, and confused regularly on both sides.

    If we’re starting over with a new QB next year (Rattler for pick 10-16 anyone?), I think we still have really good pieces to support him, but need better coaching.

    I’m also in favor of trading DK and moving up in the draft to get the guy they want.

    • Peter

      I’d trade DK. Probably get a third. Folks way over value tease compensation. If we are selling and he’s expensive….why would anyone offer a bigger deal?

      Rattler and Legette. Sounds good.

      Tyler is trending way down. JSN is a good, solid player. And the legend of Bobo is comically overhyped. The qb/wr is a great combo draft move.

      And there’s a pretty realistic chance Seattle won’t have to move anywhere with their native pick if this continues…the whole Situation Normal All —- Up style output we are seeing.

      • Parallax

        The best time to sell pieces is just before the in-season trade deadline. Some contending team will be down a receiver and willing to trade a second for Lockett or a first for DK. Maybe more if they’re as stupid or blind as Pete and John.

  28. geoff u

    Three blowouts so far this year, and quite possibly three more about to come. This team is broken.

    Unfortunately we know Jody won’t fire anyone or cares at all about sports, we know JS can’t fire Pete, and we know Pete probably won’t retire. Now we just wait for the team to sell, and as Tom Petty said the waiting is the hardest part. With or without a franchise qb we are in football purgatory and it sucks.

    Question, do we still want John around? Do we have faith in him making a good hire for a new HC? It’s possible Pete retires and John assumes total control, I wonder if he has what it takes on his own. Do we want to find out? Or wipe the slate clean?

    • AlaskaHawk

      The best thing Jody Allen or the trust could do is hire an attorney familiar with football and order him to make the cuts and hires.

      1. Cut the major coaches including Pete. Cut the head coaches.

      2. Cut most of the players on Robs cap hit list to gain some cap space. That includes cutting Geno Smith, Lock, Adam’s , Diggs, and Wagner.

      3. Keep John Schneider for a year or two for continuity and contract knowledge.

      4. Conduct a coaching hiring search.

      One thing I will say is that people consistently under estimate how hard it is to find and hire great coaches. It’s arguably as hard as finding a Tom Brady or PTrick Mahomes.

    • Mr drucker in hooterville

      I would like to see how John does with a new, offensive-minded HC.

  29. neil

    I have been a proponent for dumping PC for the last three or four years. It looks like Jody Allan is married to PC until the team is sold. I don’t know how much longer I can take close up shots of PC chomping away on his gum with that ” its all good ” expression on his face while the ship is sinking. I hope somebody in the organization goes back and revisits Brock Purdy’s profile and tries to figure out what they missed about him because unless the lose out the won’t get a top qb in the draft. One last thought, stone hands Metcalf is not worth the money he gets.

  30. Rob Staton

    Per Ian Furness… Quandre Diggs was asked about the slow starts after the game and his response was:

    “I don’t know, I’m not the coach”

    • Denver Hawker

      At least Geno says he needs to play better instead of deflecting. Diggs is playing horrifically, but is also a vocal vet personality on the team.

      Is it possible Pete loses the locker room?

      • Rob Staton

        Diggs intrigues me

        Spends way too much time complaining on social media about a lack of respect. Revels in sycophantic, nonsense tweets from Seahawks Twitter/media. Yet clearly is NOT playing well at all and is saying stuff like this to the media afterwards, which is at the very least ‘barbed’.

        • Pran

          It was a mistake to give him that contract then and still now. Adams the same. Williams same..
          Honestly this blog has a better feel for roster construction and talent acquisition than Pete and John. Every choice (90%) were being called out here.

    • cha

      It’s actually worse.

      He blamed every bad thing that happened on the slow start.

      And when asked how do they get better he answered above and that was the final question.

      But yeah, he’s a team leader and social media presence.

      • Rob Staton

        Good grief

        Still, I might tweet at him later saying awesome job. You know, for the RT’s

        • Blitzy the Clown

          Do it Rob. Make his day by confirming his priors

        • cha

          I’m certain MB is running tape for his weekly “this defense is better than you think / you have to listen to the jazz notes they’re not playing / only a scholar like me can truly understand what they’re trying to do” post.

          • Rob Staton


          • Parallax

            Who’s MB?

            • cha

              Matty brown

              • Parallax

                Thanks Cha.

          • Thomas Wells

            There is only 1 MB!


            • Parallax

              Thahks Thomas.

  31. Rob Staton

    Geno Smith’s PFF stats from yesterday:

    63.2 grade
    Three turnover worthy plays (his most in a game this season)

    • Rob Staton

      Quandre Diggs:

      42.3 grade
      Three missed tackles (his most in a game this season)
      Targeted four times, giving up three completions (most in a game this season)
      Now graded as the 74th best safety in the NFL

      Top-10 safety though *sends tweet*

      • Rob Staton

        Bobby Wagner:

        54.6 grade

        • Rob Staton

          Leonard Williams:

          82.9 grade
          Seven total pressures

          Fantastic performance

          • Rob Staton

            Charles Cross:

            75.4 grade

            Not bad at all

            • Rob Staton

              D.K. Metcalf:

              50.4 grade

              • Rob Staton

                Jamal Adams:

                63.4 grade

                • GlastoHawkUK

                  Perhaps Pete should present the players with a jersey at Tell the truth Monday, just replace their normal number with their PFF grade. Clearly his motivational genius isn’t working so try something different.

              • Hebegbs

                I’m tired of DK. He either plays inspired (ie I’ll rip your helmet off cuz I’m MMA) or uninspired (like last night). Plus the guy can’t run a route to get open if his life depended on (which is nuts with his athletic gifts).

                I’d rather have guys like Tyler Lockett and Doug Baldwin a thousands x over. He’s an overpriced and overvalued WR. Move on.

                • Mr drucker in hooterville

                  I advocated trading DK vs signing him. If we can get a top 50 draft pick, do it.

                • Troy

                  One thing is certain – he isn’t playing to the level of his contract. Insert Jamal Adams, Quandre Diggs, Will Dissly, Geno Smith and Dre’mont Jones into this sentence as well.

                • AlaskaHawk

                  I’m tired of him too and the recent printing of his catch rate being around 54 % sealed it for me. (anyone know what the better receivers catch rates are?).

                  Anyway, the camera showed him getting behind the defense once yesterday. The other times are mostly closely contested catches because he can’t shake the defenders. He still has decent straight line speed, but he isn’t agile enough to shake a defender, and we know his hands are not at an elite level. At this point Bobo, JSN and Lockette all have better hands.

                  • Peter

                    I know we are all over Metcalf.

                    Wait til some of the posters find out that JSN has a 45.6% catch rate…

                    So, worse than DK and can’t get yards.

                  • AlaskaHawk

                    check out my post below with links to stats. 55% catch rate will get you fired on the better teams.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          At least these aren’t captains….

      • Gross MaToast

        Rob woke up this morning and chose violence.

        • AlaskaHawk

          I bet he attacked the hotel breakfast with unusual vigor!

          • Rob Staton

            You better believe I did!

  32. DT

    It’s interesting to think that if the hawks had won the super bowl in 05 under holmgren if we as fans would hold Pete in the same esteem for as long as we have.

    Seems like the best thing is maybe what is likely to happen this year- several more bad losses. It’s unlikely to shift Pete’s (ownerships) mindset but we know nothing will change if the hawks win 9, barely slip into or miss the playoffs. That will reinforce Pete’s approach and philosophy, give him talking points to Jody, and then run it back again (and again).

    • Rob Staton

      There’s nothing to be gained from backing into the playoffs as a seventh seed.

      I know some people hate that rhetoric but it will simply paper over the cracks when they’re dumped out in round one by an actual contender.

      • Peter

        I think the point about esteem is worth noting.

        Seattle has had two championship seasons from the big 3 leagues in around 150 seasons of fandom.

        One if those teams doesn’t even exist anymore, the sonics.

        And the other one still has that very coach pacing the sidelines.

        • king

          Marrying the first girl who gives you a kiss.

          Nobody cares that I also root for Barcelona and the Lakers (moved around a lot as a kid, but born in Tacoma), but the point is there is a massive difference between Seattle fans and fans that expect their team to do everything possible to get to and sustain a championship level. Neither of the fan bases or franchises of my other two sporting loves would have suffered Pete past 2017.

          Seattle fans need to drop their high school crush, grow up as fan base, and understand they deserve someone better.

          • Peter

            I’m with you.

            I’m so Seattle I have my name on a tile at the pike place market…Markey….

            But I’ve also moved around a bunch and nowhere I ever lived would put up with this rowing around in a circle for nearly a decade.

            • Peter

              Just market….

          • Parallax

            High-school crush is a good reference frame. There are spoiled, entitled fan bases and then there are starved, desperate fan bases. At times, we’ve been both. But our overall identity is far more latter than former.

            I don’t mind rooting for teams that have down seasons. But it’s soul crushing to root for teams that don’t really try to get better.

            • Peter

              Literally why I don’t follow the mariners. They don’t care so why should I?

  33. JimN

    Pretty much agree with most of the changes that have been written here. I certainly would KEEP JS, as i don’t think he has anything to say about the Pete and the coaching. There just isn’t any consistent scheme. Clean up these stupid giganic contracts, bite the bullet, and yes DK is not part of the solution so trade him for draft capital. And, for the first time, i would also have Pete retire.

    I think the draft for the last couple of years was turned over to JS because how bad it was getting quality wise. The last two years has brought some great and good players. I see that part of the organization as a strength. I think John would hire a good HC.

  34. Rob Staton

    This Pete Carroll show, deary me

    • Rob Staton

      Good question from Salk on whether they have too many weapons and are struggling to work out how best to use them all. Carroll concedes, yes. They are.

      And that says it all.

      • Rob Staton

        Another good question from Salk about shotgun on 3rd/4th and 1.

        Answers not really forthcoming

        • Rob Staton

          Good question again from Salk on whether he’s more involved with his coordinator or less these days

          Carroll says it’s the same as it’s always been and reiterates he’s very involved

          • Olyhawksfan

            He truly is the one common denominator in all this mediocrity.

      • Hebegbs

        Too many weapons and can’t figure out how to use them all?! Wow, that does say it all. What a damning acknowledgment by Pete. Mind numbing acknowledgment and a full indictment of his “creativity” and leadership. The era is truly over.

  35. jed

    Great stuff again Rob and commenters.

    This team is straight mediocre. There is nothing that much above or below average on this entire team and organization other than Witherspoon.

    Seriously. Pete isn’t the worst coach out there. He’s average-ish. Depending on what you value he’s probably in that 12 to 20 rank and can make solid arguments on exactly where you put him. Same thing up and down the roster as far as position groups and players. Maybe guys like Diggs or Clark are having bad seasons at the near-end of their careers. Is there a Pro-Bowl player on this roster outside of Spoon?

    I just am sick of average. Give me a contender or a team with great players with clear holes that can be filled with average to make a run. Or even just blow it up and see if you can build a thing. This is just boring, mediocre football with no hope.

  36. Lord Snow

    I was watching a Joe Rogan podcast and he was talking about Ronda Rousey. Because she was still UFC champion she did not realize that the sport had passed her by and there were other women that were far better than her. This was well before her loss to Holly holm. It happens. To me with Pete it was 7 years ago but I don’t think this can be hidden any longer. And his fans can spin it any way they want but the results are the results.

    • Rob Staton

      With hindsight, Pete should’ve gone after 2017 when Jay Glazer was reporting he was contemplating retirement

      • Big Mike

        Spot on posts, both of you.

      • Mr drucker in hooterville

        Pete ‘s last great moment was during Superbowl #2.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Ronda was always a one trick pony, but she was unbeatable if she could get an armbar. At least she had the grace to retire when she did realize she couldn’t win anymore. And she moved on to a career in movies.

      • AlaskaHawk

        As a side note, there are plenty of UFC and boxing champions who have continued to fight well past their prime. George Foreman being one of the oldest. I still appreciate them. There can only be one or two champions at each weight.

        I actually think Rogans comment is more relevant to the players.

  37. Hebegbs

    I love Pete. He was great for us. It is time for Pete to go. When 35% of Hawk season ticket holders sell their tickets to rival SF fans, you know something is up with fan apathy. Don’t care it was thanksgiving. That alone should wake up ownership if they even care to be awake.

    I saw 3 players on O that give me hope. N-Smith, Charbonnet and Lockett (and how much does he have left in the tank)? DK’s routes are a joke. The O line is a joke. Geno is a joke (how many times did he have time yet still took a sack)? Our route tree is a joke. Someone said it above that our down and distance routes are incoherent. They are. What are they doing??

    This team is rudderless and that is on Pete Carrol. He took Shane Waldron who was supposedly a McVay protege and made him into a vanilla bean.

    3rd and 1–QB sneak for 1/2 yard. 4th and 1/2 yard and an outside run to Charbonnet into an area with zero blockers and what seemed like 25 niners? What in the F was that?? Unbelievably inept, hapless, underprepared and just a disaster of a play call.

    I take no silver lining from this game. Pete thinks we won the 2nd half? Is that gum he chews laced with THC?

    What sucks the worst out of all of it is they are completely lost and with no direction. None. 2nd and 5th for Williams? Why??? They aren’t even close. Teams that feel they are close make that trade. Which tells me Pete is delusional too. Optimism<delusional!!

    The next 3 weeks are going to be brutal. No thanks on a wild card miracle run. This team is one and done if they could even muster beating bad teams like they are, down the stretch. Well
    coached and creative teams are going to destroy this inept team. Dan Quinn is going to out scheme this offense to death. Bland will have his 6th pick 6. Book it. Eagles and “rematch” with Niners? Oh God. I bet we score under 60 points in this 4 game stretch while giving up 140+.

    What are they doing? Where are they going? Looking at this high $ product on the field, I have no clue. They clearly have no clue either. Fire PC. Or encourage him to retire. It’s over.

  38. ShowMeYourHawk

    A complete and total debacle.

    There are so many other ways to parse the results and explain away how or why, but calling it a debacle seems to nicely sum up every aspect.

    I know many of us have vocalized that we don’t see any coach but Pete on the sidelines until Jody sells the franchise but in the last 12 hours, I’ve seen more “local” press starting to criticize Pete in ways that I previously hadn’t. Mind you, it’s not “East Coast press criticism” calling for his removal but still…

    Is Pete’s poor oversight and lack of results hurting the potential selling costs of the team? Is it feasible in any way that Jody and Vulcan would vacate the HC position for a franchise that they’re looking to move soon? Wouldn’t a new owner want to oust whomever was employed as GM/HC and build the team in THEIR image? As such, who would you logically target to fill those positions, if those hired by the current ownership are already on borrowed time?

    I’d love to take a swing on Ben Johnson if Pete was out but would he opt to come to Seattle knowing an overhaul in ownership is coming down the pipe? Would he take a look at the current Commanders situation and say “Rivera’s about to get booted by a new ownership, that could be me in 2 years?”

    Perhaps someone like Bieniemy, who’s been denied a chance at an HC spot would still jump at the chance to finally be “the guy,” even if it was for an abbreviated period? Should that be the guy we bring in? He already has experience with Mahomes and has done a good, if not great job with Howell. He might help us bring in Brissett as our bridge QB/rookie mentor, allowing us to move on from Geno and Lock.

    Honestly, in the unlikely situation where Pete is released or to retire (more likely, though unlikely), if we can’t land Johnson, I say that Bieniemy may be Plan B.

    But, I gird myself of at least one more season of “Always compete……but have a canned excuse at the ready, just in case.” 🤦🏽‍♂️

    • Rob Staton

      The work Eric Bieniemy has done in Washington is impressive. I’d be willing to give him a shot.

      Plus — this is a guy who could’ve sat as Patrick Mahomes’ OC forever. He took a HUGE chance going to Washington to prove he isn’t just the beneficiary of Andy Reid and Mahomes. Fair play.

    • Big Mike

      Is Pete’s poor oversight and lack of results hurting the potential selling costs of the team?

      No, owning an NFL franchise is like owning a money printing machine because of shared revenue. Sure, there’ll be a loss of revenue because of jersey sales dropping, etc. but tha’s a drop in the ocean compared to TV money. Hell I’ve heard talk that NFL stadiums will be built with no upper deck and a roughly 30,000 capacity because they make so little of ticket sales.

      Wouldn’t a new owner want to oust whomever was employed as GM/HC and build the team in THEIR image?


      • Big Mike

        *future NFL stadiums

        • AlaskaHawk

          I’m going to disagree as to value. Given a choice of owning the latest hot team that is also well coached would you pick the Chiefs, Cowboys, 49ers, Eagles, etc === or the Seahawks?

          I believe the first four teams will sell for more. And yes it’s partly the size of the fan base and stadium economics, but it’s also that you already have a functional team.

        • Brodie

          Seahawks reported $82M in gate receipts last year. Cut that in half and multiply it over say 10 years and that’s about $400M in lost revenue. Not to mention it would price the working man out.

          They also have 61k season ticket holders, so the revenue is more or less cooked in each year, and a team like our would need to cutoff half of the existing STH’s.

  39. neil

    Currently their are 23 teams with 6 wins or less so losing out is no guarantee of a top ten pick in the draft. What I want is a coach that shows some fire and ire on the sidelines when things are going poorly.In my opinion the team is a reflection of PC’s laid back coaching style. Some will say ” oh yeah” what about the legion of boom. To me that was a reflection of Cam Chancellor, Earl Thomas and Sherm not PC. Look what has happened since they departed.

    • Rob Staton

      Mashawn & Kam set the tone for the LOB era

  40. IHeartTacoma

    Conflicting thoughts:
    One, the Seahawks roster is mediocre. Talent acquisition has been disastrous for several years.
    Two, a coach like McVay or Shanahan would have this team at 9-2.

    Agree with other posters about the lame pass routes and lack of middle-field plays. Watching the better teams play it is striking how many slants and crossing routes you see, and how many go for big YAC. Speedy receivers and a good QB, that’s the ticket on offense these days.

  41. sten

    We seem completely lost at sea, no hope in sight. It felt this way with Tottenham this last summer before Postecoglou. It won’t change until we get rid of Pete. This is the first time I’ve ever actually wanted the team to tank in 20 years of being a fan. Totally with you Rob on the fact that nobody seems to get excited or upset about the games the way we should as a fanbase since there’s seemingly no point being this far from contention, with any aspect of the team capable of utter collapse at any moment.

  42. Blitzy the Clown

    Bob Condotta @bcondotta

    Carroll says Seahawks wanted to attack SF defense with deep shots but we “didn’t get as much out of that as we thought we would.” Notes how close Metcalf was on the early sideline route and that that might have changed things some.

    9:49 AM · Nov 24, 2023

    Oh, they wanted to attack deep. With an injured QB (injury to his throwing elbow FFS). Against the best DL in the NFL. And they thought they’d get more out of that than they did? Really?

    Cuz if that’s true, I don’t know what other evidence you’d need to conclude they’ve lost the narrative on how to run a football team.

    • SeaTown

      Jesus wept. I can’t believe he said that. I just can’t. SMDH.

    • Lord Snow

      I love the how close Metcalf was and everything would have changed argument. I’m so tired of that. His Spiel has worn me out and he’s like a used car salesman I just don’t believe anymore

      • AlaskaHawk

        A better question is if Metcalf is going to run up the sideline 80% of the time, why is he letting the defender push him out of bounds on the route? Why doesn’t he muscle up and bang into the defender each time he gets muscled? He will probably get a few defensive pass interference calls out of it.

      • Big Mike

        Used car salesman is a very apt label for the guy.

    • cha

      He’s not wrong in his analysis. The Niner CBs are easily their weakest spot on defense.

      That’s an astute observation.

      But it’s not enough. You have to come up with a play that makes it work. You have to consider the protections, the spot in the game and who you’re throwing to.

      And you have to stick with it, even if it doesn’t work the first or second time.

      Pete Carroll did none of those things.

      I swear, that second Geno to DK throw, it was the classic call that Rob has perfectly outlined in his Penix/Hendon Hooker analysis. Geno took the snap, looked right, and wound up and just hucked the ball to the left, counting on DK to make the play. Didn’t even look to see if he’d tripped and fallen or was triple covered. Just close your eyes and throw.

  43. Susan Olmos

    Peter Carroll should have been released a long time ago! Offensive coordinator not that good. Why can’t they see that? Geno???? not sure he’s all that. Ahler was fantastic in the pre-season games! Where did he go?
    Sorry, I am just a musician looking in from the outside and it just looks obvious to me. I wish somebody who has the power to change things could have some insight.

  44. Chavac

    I’ve always thought Pete wasn’t the issue but I can’t even defend things now. I if you had swapped rosters on Sunday, Shananhan would have still blown them out. They need to attract a high-profile offensive or defensive mind from another team but will never be able to pull this off without the HC spot open. Especially with no plan at QB, who would even want to go to Seattle? Of all the open coaching spots this offseason, Seattle will probably have the most talent and least appeal. Rediculous.

  45. Parallax

    Your comment that they don’t have an identity reminds me of when I accused a friend of being out of shape. His response was, “Round is a shape”. We have an identity. Lots of ’em. On the defense “hot knife through butter” comes immediately to mind. On offense, one might sum it up as “confused, misguided, pathetic”.

    When we traded Russ, it was time for a bit of self reflection and a full tear down. That would have been the time to trade Lockett for a first, get whatever we might for Adams and whomever else. Even this year, before the trade deadline, instead of trading away a 2nd and a 5th, we might have traded Lockett for a second or Metcalf for a first. We have too many receivers right now, thanks to how good both JSN and Bobo have turned out. One less would be better than too many.

    I have no argument with draft picks these last two years. Sure, we invested a lot in running backs but imagine where we’d be without Charbonnet when Walker went down. Not that it matters — we suck regardless. But you get the idea.

    I think the core of the problem is a 71 year old coach who is too old to commit to a plan that would have maximized our chances of success. So much of our team is strung up by Pete’s ego. Everything must be seen through a lens of positivity because God forbid anyone should challenge the guy. He really ought to have stepped aside. How honorable it would have been to admit it was time to move on and let someone else take over. He could have had a cushy and honored position in the organization. Probably still could.

    His press conference after the game last night was like falling through the looking glass, listening to him talk about how well the team did in the second half and how they had just fallen short of a comeback. On what planet does this man reside?

    • king

      I know the accepted common knowledge is it was time to move on from Russ, but there were other, and in my opinion, better options. Quarterback is the most important position in the game. The only thing that might rival it is a dynamic, creative offensive mind who can, for example, turn Brock Purdy into the most efficient quarterback in the league.

      The Russ/Pete relationship needed to end and many felt Russ was done, but Wilson is quietly having a very efficient season in his first year with a new coach. And he is, for the most, not playing ‘hero ball’.

      Whether or not Russ can ever be 85-90% of what he was in is prime, whether he can reinvent himself, is immaterial. Seattle chose what they chose and the toothpaste is out of the tube, but we like to talk about it as if there was no other option.

      There was and it was choosing the dynamic quarterback who was disillusioned after a decade in a conservative system, who had really only had one subpar year, over the defensive HC who had failed to field a top 10 defense in 5 years despite significant resource outlay.

      I believe the right move was to give Russ a chance to show he still had something in the tank and pair him with the other half of the relationship, a progressive offensive mind.

      Maybe Russ is done, but I would have preferred rolling the dice on Russ and a bright young offensive mind rather than the anachronistic HC whose most treasured accomplishment is consistent above average play.

      • Parallax

        Regardless of what Russ has left in the tank, we got a ton of draft capital for him and there’s no doubt in my mind it was worth it. Heck, Witherspoon alone for Russ straight up would probably be a good trade. Not that Witherspoon was available then but you get the idea. A guy good enough to strive for the Hall against a guy on the down-slope of a very good / almost great career.

        • king

          At the the end of the day, the Seahawks are rebuilding AGAIN in the next couple of years and long term they may have turned Russ into Cross and Witherspoon, whom I am a fan of, but if Russ can perform for another 3 or 4 years at a top 10 level, which I am not saying is a given, he is worth more than a db and a tackle. That’s how important qb is. It was the better gamble, especially considering the hit rate of draft picks. Even if you had told me Seattle would get a HoF db and a quality left tackle, I still would have taken the potential of Russ in Seattle with a new offensive OC.

          But the larger point is, Pete would be gone, which I think is the most important issue for Seattle. I hear people saying Russ had to go, but it was Pete that had to go. Just like JS, I would really have liked to see what Russ could do without Pete (a year of Hackett doesn’t count and honestly I don’t care what he does in Denver other than as a referendum on how badly Seattle screwed up sticking with Pete).

          • Peter

            In the end I thought both should have gone.

            Russ became persona non grata to the fans. I know of one fan that would rather root for Geno than the 3rd round rookie who weekly took time out of his life to see that fans kid and all the others at children’s hospital. Fans got so demented they thought that was a “work.”

            And Pete legitimately could not do what the greats have done which is lose the big one and get back again. His legendary culture was just a magic show where the players were all to content to quit on him and the team. It’s hard to litigate the pick when the loudest voices have a ton of excuses why the let a lead slip on their side of the ball.

            Fans now talk of the successful rebuilding. Rebuilding of what? As that defense fell off the earth the FO made as many dumb moves as possible. They have as of yet not taken building either line seriously. The defense skews old over young. Expensive over cheap. They finally got weapons who can stay on the field and runningbacks that can actually put up more yards than the qb….see: the Peterson year game logs, unacceptable btw.

            And can’t do anything with all this purported promise.

  46. Pran

    The worst play design is on 2nd 1 before the ill-fated 3rd and 4th failures. That throw was to Lockett in the end zone but the defender is maintaining a 10yards cushion expecting this already. If Geno and Lockett has any feel for the game they could have made the adjustment to throw at the first down marker and then make a play for TD

    • Troy

      That’s our offense. Vertical routes no matter the down and distance.

      • Mike

        What’s the likelihood Jodi cans him? Less than 10%?

        • SeaTown

          Zero percent.

  47. Romeo A57

    Be thankful that we aren’t the Jets? That failed Hail Mary for a 99 yard Interception Return is the most brutal play that I have seen in a long time.

  48. Peter

    For those of a certain age from the Seattle area….hats off.

    Just saw Seattle weatherman extraordinaire Steve Pool has passed away.

    • Palatypus

      That’s sad. Loved seeing him on Good Morning America.

      • Peter

        Always though he should have “sharp dressed man,” playing as his walk up music.

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      Immaculate hair. Like LEGO good.

  49. Palatypus


    Tariq Wool’s Alma Matter has given up seven sacks and four turnovers in the first half to Michael Pratt and the Green Wave. Tulane is up 20-10 at home. UTSA is currently 8-3 and Tulane 10-1.

    And by the way, Woolen’s middle name is Deion. What is this Riq crap? Give me Deion.

    • Dustin

      You’re right about Michael Pratt. He is worth a look from NFL teams.

      • Mike

        Didn’t see the game, but did see Pratt’s stats: 9-22 passing. Not great against UTSA.

        • Palatypus

          They had to tape up his ankle and he was bleeding like Christian McCaffrey last night. He had two touchdowns and no interceptions and added 10 carries for 50 yards. Tulane had 227 rushing yards and lost the time-of-possession battle.

          • Palatypus

            He was also sacked three times today and lost a fumble.

            Michael Pratt has now been sacked 103 times in his college career.

        • Dustin

          Yeah the numbers don’t exactly jump off the page. But watching the game, he just passes the eye test. He’s different from rattler but has the same knack for doing everything he can to drag his team across the finish line despite a lack of support.

          • Palatypus

            Right now he looks like a quarterback who has been sacked 103 times. I cannot find all-time records on this.

            In the NFL, Tom Brady is the most sacked quarterback with 565.

  50. Henry

    My friend seems to believe that Pete is going to get another extension since Jody doesn’t want to deal with the process of finding another coach. So crazy what the fan perception out there is

    • Mr drucker in hooterville

      Who is your friend and why should we listen?

      • Palatypus

        Pete Carroll?

      • Henry

        His rationale is that Pete runs the show and will give himself an extension and Jody won’t step in to stop it

    • Ground_Hawk

      Talk about drinking the koolaid!

      This team sucks. 8-9 at best and even that will be misleading. Pete’s done…

      • SeaTown

        We know that but Pete doesn’t and there is no one in the organization to break it to him.

  51. AlaskaHawk

    I was investigating wide receiver catch rates and ran across a nifty site with lots of statistics. It’s an analyst or blog writers dream. Guess which current Seahawks player has the highest catch rate percentage of everyone? Hint : it’s a running back.

  52. Palatypus

    Brady Cook, Michael Pratt, and now Quinn Ewers to scout.

    Merry Christmas!

    Oh, and I have a scouting report on the Popeyes Cajun Spice Infused Holliday Turkey. It doesn’t suck at all.

    • Seahawkwalt

      I like them all…

      • Palatypus

        And Bo Nix is on right now, too.

  53. DW

    The problem with the start over mantra is that there is no guarantee the QB you draft will be successful. You could get a Stroud but you could also get Zac Wilson or Mac Jones. How many QB’s did the 49rs cycle through before they lucked into Purdy. Better to stick with the tried and true than risk a QB bust.

    • Rob Staton

      So, never draft a QB in case you fail?

      If KC had that attitude they wouldn’t have Mahomes

      It makes no sense

    • 805Hawk

      So just stay in NFL purgatory at 9-8/8-9? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of what? Even if you go backwards for a year or two, it’s worth the risk. This is the approach that I fear more than anything else.

    • Jabroni-DC

      Better to stick with the tried and true than risk a QB bust.

      Geno Smith is a QB bust. Just ask the NY Jets. 39th overall pick in the vaunted 2013 draft class.

    • McZ

      Geno is 12 TD, 8 INT. With a receiving corps which was rated as top 5 by PFF preseason. Playing half of his games against bottom ternary defenses, these are rookie number.

      Will Levis is 6:2 in four games, with basically only DeAndre Hopkins.

    • Hawkdawg

      I don’t think “tried and true” means what you think it means…

  54. ErickV

    The only positive thing that seems to be coming out of this might be the fact that the “fire PC” can’t simply be dismissed anymore , especially if Waldron gets fired in the offseason. Even guys like Mike Dugar or Dan Viens seem to be much more understanding in the validity of the section of the fan base that wants to move on from PC.

    • Palatypus

      And replace him with who?

      • Seahawkwalt

        Knee jerk response I know but, anybody. We are stale and broken. Time to get young, fresh ideas

        • Palatypus

          Well, if the commanders can Ron Rivera they will probably promote Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator Eric Bienemy.

        • 805Hawk

          I’d give Eric Bienemy a chance at this point. Mike Kafka could develop a new QB. Ben Johnson? Those are off the top of my head, but I think there are a number of guys that you could take a chance on. Better than perpetual mediocrity. There would probably be a gum surplus in the PNW for a bit until the supply chain adjusted.

  55. Ashish

    Need to start with new head coach under John Schneider assuming he is making the calls. Use DK metcalf to move up the board to get your qb of choice. Start firing process now or you can wait till Eagles game. Please get rid of both Safety either trade or cut to get max cap space. Clean the house keeping 2-3 years in mind.

  56. AlaskaHawk

    Oregons Bo Nix is putting on a real passing performance tonight. A heismen worthy performance. I could support drafting him.

    • 916MikeD

      Could you imagine Nix running Shanahan’s offense? I bet Kyle would chop off a finger to have him as his quarterback.

      • Palatypus

        I’m trying to imagine Jayden Daniels in a Todd Monken offense at the moment.

  57. BK26

    He’s the one I’m 💯 out on. He plays in a system that doesn’t transfer at all, doesn’t get pressured and hasn’t done well with pressure in his career. From what I saw, he isn’t even asked to throw the ball far. I don’t care about stats or who wins the Heisman.

    I don’t trust anything about his game.

    • Peter

      Surprised by this comment.

      Penix I’m all the way out on. See above comment about system. Pro bigger arm, con gets stuck when everything isn’t clicking. Not sure he lifts many let alone all boats.


      Daniels…heisman winners. Feels like that should be enough. But. Terrible pro frame. Not anywhere like a pro system. Something there? Probably. Will most likely need a few years to get ready, except I hope the guys who draft him are gone within a few years. Things that are super exciting at college rarely translate directly to the pros:

      -Kenny pickets fake slide
      -Jabril peppers
      -That one play where jadeveon Clowney blew up a player that played on a loop

      -Most of the qbs on the best single game, single season, single career performances lists… Mahomes withstanding.

      • Palatypus

        Jayden Daniels is not a QB I would draft early, right now. But with the right head coach/oc, time to learn, and imagination…

        • Peter

          I mean, the VMAC is starting to turn into 1991’s “imagination station,” on pbs….so maybe there’s a chance.

      • BK26

        I would throw Penix in there too. He and Nix are two pure system qb’s. I think I’ve gotten to a point where I am subconsciously trying to cope with getting Penix because it just seems to fit what this team would do (in a bad way): local hero drafted as the savior, takes a beating and can’t stay healthy, Pete can’t coach him up or protect him from the locals turning on him after he struggles and the team doesn’t progress.

  58. Palatypus

    Interesting conversation on twitter right now.

    Jim Nagy said,

    NFL decision-makers value QBs who elevate programs and that’s exactly what Michael Pratt has done for @GreenWaveFB. – These numbers will be talked about in draft rooms come April.

    Chris Vannini said,

    Tulane is 23-3 over the last two years, after going 2-10 in 2021. Best two-year period in 90+ years. Just a ridiculous run by Willie Fritz.

    Some guy said,

    Back up at best Jim.

    Jim Nagy said,

    You’re wrong.

    I just want to add a historical note about Tulane. It has been closed only twice. The last time was for Hurricane Katrina. Before that, it was closed to the Civil War.

    • Peter

      It’s hard to project Pratt to this team because Seattle has spent very few meaningful draft picks at non power five conference players.

      Not never. But not often and not very high.

  59. Rob Staton

    Just enjoyed a fantastic evening with Cha at the Canucks vs Kraken game

    Great to finally meet up!

    • cha


      A blast.

      • Big Mike

        Good for you guys! CP is a beautiful venue.

    • UkAlex6674

      That’s awesome!

  60. Henry

    Rob, I just saw statistics that said Bo Nix has the fifth lowest average depth of target among NCAA QBs (aka his stats come from YAC) and he’s among the least hit players in the NCAA. Why is he being projected as anything more than a day 2/3 pick?

    • Rob Staton

      Because he does have some flashy throws and physically he’s impressive. But it’s in the context of when he didn’t have the perfect environment at Auburn, he was absolutely terrible. So who is the real Bo Nix?

  61. Romeo A57

    Most of the people doing the projecting don’t study tape and just look at stats and hype. He has a good chance to win the Heisman Trophy, or come close, which is propping him up more.

    I know that Bo is not very popular on this board, but he does seem to move around well and is not making too many mistakes in the Oregon system, which seems to be a very Quarterback friendly offense.

    • Peter

      Can’t wait to see the rematch for pac nothing title.

      I just watched the ducks beavers highlights. It’s not a knock on him but the ducks are so fast and so multiple on offensive options it’s really hard to see what he is. I know you are a ducks fan I really am not trying to say, start, or anything like that. Maybe it is Nix doing the lifting and orchestrating out there but it kind of looks like you could put me out there and I’d be successful because everything hums along at such a clip.

      I will say that Nix feels to me to be the qb that ends up being undervalued the most. Meaning go in round three but end up like a Cousins where he plays longer than all but one guy in the draft class and is very solid+ for most if that time.

      Rob makes a good but slightly curious point about Auburn. Who is the real Nix? And could he not overcome at Auburn? Or was Auburn actually a trash program he had to leave?

      • Big Mike

        Or has he matured/been given the tools via coaching to be better?

        • Peter


          Every draft bit this one in particular has a lot of questions.

          Jayden Daniels was a nobody who transferred. Was not very good before this year.

          Rattler was benched and transferred. And plays on a do nothing program.

          Penix is a six year player. Taking four to overcome injuries and get good all basically in the sane system.

          Most of us think TVD is killing his prospects by not transferring.

          Nix transferred from his family’s school to get a shot.

          If Ewers has to transfer because of the manning effect I’m not sure any of us would hold it against him.

          Nix at Auburn is not good. But that team sent basically no one to the draft on either side of the ball and turned into a train wreck his last year.

  62. Robert Las Vegas

    I have been thinking about head coaches and first of how the hell does Brandon Staley of Los Angeles chargers still have a job does anyone lose more bizarre ones then the chargers.perhaps at the end of the year good ol’ Brandon will be asked to leave. And Pete may decide to move back to sunny southern California and take the chargers job they got some talent and never forget a high price safety. anyhow Ron Rivera is on borrowed time. Bill belichick might be gone. Mike Tomlin should be gone. And Pete Carroll has a sweet situation but I think his time is up. But who knows maybe the Seahawks will win the last 3 games and everyone will rejoice and proclaim we have turned the Corner and fired up about 2024

    • Big Mike

      Staley has a job because the Spanos family, much like Jody Allen are loathe to pay a guy to not work, I lived in San Diego for 13 years and saw how they do things up close. They aren’t Bidwell cheap but they never met a dollar they wouldn’t squeeze either.

      • Big Mike

        That said, I do believe they’ll fire him after the season this year.

  63. Big Mike

    Tim Booth column today: Carroll Fed Up With Seahawks’ Broken Offense

    Inside it mentions the O hasn’t been in the end zone for 20 straight possessions!!
    It also mentions that Petey came “very close” to blaming Waldron publicly. Get ready Shane. You’re the next fall guy for the Pete Carroll Shit Show. Like Schotty, Bevell and Norton before you, he’s going to throw you under the bus too.

    • Peter

      That time we fired the OC who had three straight top 10 scoring offenses with Jack all of olines, weapons and then he went on to be the OC of the number one scoring offense for one of my most hated franchises.

      Or I guess he wasn’t fired….they mutually parted ways.

      • AlaskaHawk

        If he’s that good, the parting of ways is all I need to hear to know PC can’t keep good coaches.

        • Peter

          I always here about Pete’s coordinators going in to do nothing but was stunned/ bummed to find Schotty is Dallas’ OC.

  64. Robert Las Vegas

    I almost forgot Robert Saleh did anyone see the game last night against Miami just before halftime throws the hail Mary only to have Miami intercept the pass and run back 99 yards for a touchdown..I am pretty sure The New York media won’t forget that for awhile. At some point if the jets decide to go another direction. I wouldn’t completely mind if the Seahawks brought back Robert .hell they brought dan Quinn back. Robert has some Seahawks history and plus it might mess with Kyle Shanahan knowing that his former DC is on are Seahawks sideline .I don’t want Robert Saleh to be a head coach of the Seahawks but on the defense coaching staff absolutely

    • Peter

      Saleh should go to college or restart as a DC.

      It’s the opposite of Pete. It appears he has zero authority. Trading for Rodgers, but getting Hackett who appears is a joke, bringing in Rodgers guys who don’t even play….

  65. Turnagaitide

    You are spot on Rob.

    My 2024 hope is that we blow this whole thing up next year to start the rebuild.

    -Pete Retires
    -Completely new coaching staff and front office
    -Hire new progressive GM and coordinator as coach
    -Cut most high priced vets Geno/Adams/Diggs/Lockett, eat dead money.
    -Trade high priced vets (Metcalf), clear cap, get some picks in return
    -Draft the best QB available in round 1 or 3 to be the starter next year
    -Don’t resign mistakes like Lenard Williams.
    -Rebuild from the trenches out
    -Play the young guys to see what sticks for the future

    • Seahawkwalt

      You’re hired!
      I agree!!
      Maaaaybe resign Williams though

    • Murphy

      I like a lot of this with exception of Lockett and Leonard Williams. Lockett is a great vet who could be a stabilizing force through any large transition. Williams is a good player that you’ve traded a 2nd for, so if you want to build the trenches there are worse places to start.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Call me soft hearted but I want Lockett to retire as a Seahawk. He’s still got good hands and can contribute, even if he eventually becomes a #2 or #3, or a situational receiver. DO NOT LET LOCKETTE GO!

        • Murphy

          Could not agree more!! He’s a guy who you love to root for but it isn’t just sentimental. I get the feeling that his intangibles rub off on the young guys

  66. JDH

    Wow, this is a depressing thread, but with good reason. Others here have more football knowledge than I do. I’ve been a Geno doubter since the last half of 2022. But I’ve become more and more a Pete/Shane/Cliff doubter. This game seemed to underscore that as the main problem for me.

    Here is my hypothesis: Seahawk OC and DC are OK when given time to do a game plan and I think Pete falls into that same category, i.e. give them enough time and they can be competitive. Against smarter coaching, though, they struggle and sometimes fail completely (e.g. Ravens).

    The SF game was a great example of this in my view. A short week meant they were less prepared than their better-coached opponent. So first half was awful. Seattle was able to make some adjustments at the half, but Shanahan and his coaches adapted on the run and squashed the Seattle adjustments. We are not very good at on the run adjustments.

    The two LAR games show a slightly different, though in my mind, consistent, pattern. 1st halves of both games were competitive. Game planning was OK by Hawks, though their personnel were better in my opinion than LAR and we should have won both 1st halves based on talent. Since we were “competitive”, few adjustments were made by us at half-time. Not so with LAR and smarter coaching. LAR dominated both 2nd halves. Players didn’t change. Coaching was critical.

    Our wins have come, by and large, against coaching that is on a similar level, so our better talent had a chance. I find it hard to see a way for us to win against the next three teams. We WILL be outcoached. We should be competitive for the last three games because to my eye, there isn’t a dominating opposing coaching staff or significantly better football talent. We could make 9-8, but we aren’t going anywhere.

    We also could lose out. Maybe we could get a Spencer Rattler or another QB with great potential, but until the coaching changes, it won’t be a huge difference, I’m afraid. I like Pete and I remember pre-Pete days too well to understate what a good run he brought to the Hawks. He might even be able to be the HC if he had shit-kicking OCs and DCs, but the evidence is he will not make the needed changes. I hope I’m wrong.

    • AlaskaHawk

      It’s not like this is a new phenomenon. The team has been in gradual decline since 2014. We are at the point where we have a handful of great players, and the rest of the team and coaches are average to key stone cops incompetent. We are playing with a backup quarterback for the second year, who is backed by another backup QB who can’t make the field and a rookie quarterback who also can’t make the field.

      As much as I like JSN, they really should have started the quarterback search last draft with Levis. Which gives me very little confidence they will pick one this year , even though everyone thinks they should find one. Big picture though, Pete and coaching is the problem along with excessive free agent contracts on injury prone players.

      It’s just sad!

  67. Peter

    Over/under 20 passes ( attempts not completions) from mcarthy today? He’s at 11 now. Won two games throwing less than 15 attempts this year.

    Very hard to see him as anything let alone a first round pick.

    It’s a system qb in the most damning of terms.

  68. Rob Staton

    Seahawks & Commanders scouts at the Apple Cup

    • Denver Hawker

      They were listed at UM/OSU also today along with 15 other teams

  69. Palatypus

    Any of you like to play around with the new co-pilot on Microsoft Edge? I asked the AI last night to “Draw me a picture of a Jazz funeral for the Seattle Seahawks parading down Pioneer Square.”

    Here is the best result.

  70. CL

    Hey Rob, this article was finally posted on the Seahawks Reddit and it has 110 comments already.

    “You know things are going poorly for the Seahawks when a link to Rob Staton’s blog isn’t being immediately downvoted for being “too negative”.

    Welcome to reality, /r/seahawks. Finally.”

    As we know here, you’re not too negative but merely fact based and a critical thinker I’d say.

    So it seems like our fanbase is close to hitting rock bottom haha

    • Rob Staton

      I can imagine what most of those 110 comments are like

  71. Rob Staton

    Michael Penix throwing wildly again today

    • Denver Hawker

      Some of those throws weren’t even under much pressure

    • AlaskaHawk

      As a long time PAC follower it’s hard for me to believe any PAC team can compete in the BCS against Big 10 or SEC teams.

      Washington #4 in the nation, Oregon #6, really? LOL. The last time Washington got there they played Alabama and got spanked. Quarterback wise, I know a few like Herbert have made it in the pros. But I remain skeptical about most PAC players being able to compete in the pros.

      I guess it’s a moot point after this year.

      • Peter

        I feel you. Thankfully for the ducks and huskies the playoffs are going to 12 teams. Otherwise they are probably going into rough waters with this move.

    • Hawkdawg

      I’ve been a fan, overall. But this was his worst day throwing since he’s been here. Way too many WTF throws…

  72. king

    Ryan Day is about 557 and 1 in games he is supposed to win. He is 1 and 6 in the games that make history. Fans want his head. It’s not about consistently constructing and guiding a team that can be relevant. It’s about winning the Big Game.

  73. BobbyK

    Just got home from taking my 12-year old son to his first ever Seahawks game in Seattle. Overall, a good time as long as we’re not including the “quality” of play put forth by the Seahawks.

    Someone is employed by the Seahawks with their only role being to give Pete gum. That should tell you something about his ego.

    When Pete and John came in they had a long-term vision.

    Both of these “resets” haven’t been accompanied by a long-term vision. One reset failed with a franchise QB in his prime (hard to do) and this reset is failing miserably, too.

    When you make a mediocre QB your highest paid player, you’re asking for trouble. First of all, he’s not good AND you give him North of $30 million to ensure that money isn’t available for the rest of the team to improve…

    Can we please get an NFL starting caliber center?

    We’re down a 2nd rounder in ’24 (though we have an extra 3rd) and 5th rounder in ’25. I’m so sick of this crap of trading more picks away than getting. Aside from the Wilson deal, they waste so many more picks than they recoup.

  74. Jefferson

    Would it be a nfl record to lose to the Niners 6 times in 2 years?

    • Denver Hawker

      The addition of the 7th seed is one of the worst decisions by the NFL

      I understand the cash grab, but it’s pitting mediocre teams against a team that earned a bye under the old framework and increases odds of playing a intra-division game that no one wants to watch.

      If Hawks go back to back 7th seed losses to Niners, it gives a false sense of how close the team is and coaches get longer leash than they deserve.

      • Rob Staton

        I hate the seventh seed. Awful.

    • Palatypus

      Not even close. The Patriots have won 15 straight against the Jets. But the Chiefs have won 15 straight against the Broncos. Tampa Bay was so bad when they entered the league in the NFC Central division, I think it took them ten years to beat the Bears.

      • Palatypus

        *EDIT The Patriots streak is 14, not 15.

      • Jefferson

        I agree that those streaks are long, but they would not be the furious rate of 3 per year over 2 years.

  75. Palatypus

    I think the Apple Cup might have an ending like the Iron Bowl today.

    And I hope Tommy Tubberville had a heart attack.

    • Big Mike

      And experiences great pain for a very long time

  76. cha

    If Penix plays like this in the Pac-12C or the CFBP, one of the most memorable UW seasons in recent history is in danger of turning into a ‘what could have been’ tale.

    • Palatypus

      Dead arm syndrome?

    • pdway

      Don’t normally watch that much CFB, but b/c of the year the Huskies are having, I’ve probably seen 5 or 6 of their games this year – – zero interest in drafting Penix. I just think he’s way too wild armed. Maybe a coach can get him to a competent place, but I don’t see it. Odunze on the other hand…reminds me of a young Mike Evans.

      Charmed year for the team though….they seem to win every close one. Feels like those chickens will come home to roost before it’s all over though.

      • cha

        Penix is right at that intersection of “too talented to pass on” and “needs at least one development year in the NFL.”

        To me that says 2nd-3rd round.

  77. RMK-LouCityHawk

    If I was DeBoer, I would throw the ball to Odunze on every play this drive

  78. RMK-LouCityHawk

    That sack was Geno-esque.

  79. Big Mike

    I was listening on the radio…is there someone here that can explain to me why they were throwing passes with a first down at the Washington State 16 yd line with 40 seconds to go?

    • cha

      Their kicker had missed 2 FG tries in the last couple games and had missed one earlier in the day.

      • Hawkdawg

        Bad reason. On the other hand, a 33 yard field goal was well within reason. Those two passes, especially the second one, AFTER Penix almost threw a pick to a fully covered Odunze at the goal-line (although Odunze earned DB of the day for breaking that up), and which resulted in a sack, making the field goal a 42 yarder….were true WTF moments up in the stands where I was.

        The nice end to the story is that the kicker made the 42 yarder. He had been a walk-on, and was awarded his scholarship in front of the team by the head coach…

  80. Big Mike

    Okay that makes some sense still awfully risky though

    • Palatypus

      I think Penix might have a shoulder issue. Remember Jake Browning against Alabama in the CPS? Saban could tell from the film. They knew he wouldn’t be throwing deep to John Ross, so they let him release. Then, when he threw underneath to Austin Pettis he got hammered repeatedly by safety Eddie Jackson.

  81. Thomas


    I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts on Cam Ward after today’s game.

    Tyrod Taylor level? Maybe better?

    • Palatypus

      He would have looked a lot better if it wasn’t for all the penalties.

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