The Seahawks might have to call a few teams, including the Bills
The Seahawks met with Ziggy Ansah this week and previously met with Nick Perry, Allen Bailey, Corey Liuget and Al Woods.
Given four of those meetings happened right before the draft — there’s a good chance they anticipated not being able to load up their defensive line depth.
Pete Carroll has already admitted this will be a busy couple of weeks. They have to do something. They won’t start the season with a starting line of L.J. Collier, Jarran Reed, Poona Ford and Rasheem Green (with Jacob Martin in support).
For starters, where’s the competition? They’re deep at several positions apart from defensive line. More importantly they lack any kind of proven experience and quality outside of Reed.
They used to have Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril and Frank Clark.
The Seahawks need to acquire someone with proven ability to come in and provide consistent pressure. Thus, the meeting with Ansah. He’s a collectors item as a legit pass rusher still available on the open market in May.
I’ve seen fans calling for the Seahawks to sign him now. They’re saying ‘forget the comp pick you’d lose. Just make sure you get him’.
That’s not a decision you can make lightly.
Ansah has a legit shoulder injury. It’s so legit his agent had to come out and admit he’s in rehab and will be in a better position to sign a contract later in the off-season.
The Seahawks and other potential suitors can’t sign him without a full medical check. If it’s bad news, he won’t be coming to Seattle. As desperate as they might be for a pass rusher, they’re not going to waste $10-12m (or more) on a player who won’t play.
Hopefully there’s good news on his shoulder and the Seahawks can land him next week on a one year deal. It’d solve a big problem and in 12 months time open up the possibility for a comp pick if he signs elsewhere or he could even extend his stay in Seattle if all goes well.
If it’s bad news on Ansah (or if he goes elsewhere with the Bills and Ravens reportedly showing interest) — they need alternatives.
Are Perry and Bailey enough to make you feel comfortable? Bailey had his most productive season for sacks in 2018 with six. Perry is only a year removed from a seven-sack season.
It’s not great but it might be a band-aid for a year. There’s nothing particularly scary though. Not like Ansah. Not like Frank Clark.
They might want more. And while this is a team still in the midst of a re-set — they’re also intent on competing. We saw that last year. They will be targeting a deep playoff run in 2019. They’ve improved their depth (a big need) and they’ve paid their quarterback. There’s no ‘wait until next year’ here.
With 10 draft picks in 2020 including two second rounders, two thirds and two fourths — they have some options.
Don’t rule out some veteran trades.
We’ve already talked about Jadeveon Clowney. The Frank Clark trade likely sets a precedent on price and it might be difficult to haggle with the Texans. That said — Clark went for a first and second rounder simply because a team (Kansas City) was willing to pay the price. If nobody is willing to give that up for Clowney, the Texans have a call to make. Keep him for one more year or let him go now and get a better pick a year earlier.
They have until July 15th to get a long term deal done. That’s the deadline. If we get close to that date and no extension nears, could the Texans make a deal? We’ll see. It’s still more unlikely than likely at this stage.
However, if they were willing to accept a package with a high point of one of Seattle’s second round picks — it could become an option.
You might ask — why would they pay Clowney and not Clark?
It’s a fair point to raise. I think the best answer is they don’t have to pay Clowney. The one-year rental with Sheldon Richardson backfired because he didn’t get paid big money and the Seahawks signed too many free agents to get a comp pick anyway.
Clowney is different. There’s a strong chance he would get paid next year. In the last three seasons he’s accumulated 54 TFL’s (considered a better statistic for production than mere sacks but perhaps not as strong as TFL’s + pressures combined). In 2017 his 21 TFL’s was #2 in the league and in 2016 he led the NFL with 17. Last year he had 16 but only ranked at #11.
In comparison, Frank Clark had only 11 TFL’s in 2018 and had 32 over the last three seasons. So there’s a considerable difference.
Furthermore, the Seahawks were very conscious this year not to impact their comp picks with outside free agents. If they retain that approach next year — and assuming Clowney gets paid — they’d be essentially swapping a second rounder for a third and a year of quality edge rush.
That’s if they don’t re-sign or extend him — which they could do.
It’s a mildly risky strategy as we saw with the Richardson trade. Yet the Rams received no criticism for their one-year rental of Sammy Watkins because they did get the third round comp pick.
I’ll say again — it’s probably not likely to happen. Yet the Texans are reportedly open to dealing him with an extension unlikely. Clowney is the type of impact, game-wrecking talent the Seahawks like. He’d immediately upgrade the D-line and improve their greatest weakness.
For more on Clowney’s effectiveness and development, watch this video by Brett Kollmann:
There are other options too. Gerald McCoy is seemingly destined to leave Tampa Bay. He’s perhaps not quite the player he once was aged 31. It feels like the Seahawks need an EDGE more than anything. Someone who can threaten with speed and has years on their side and something to prove rather than a heavy wallet.
If Ansah signed with the Bills it could make Jerry Hughes expendable. He’s always been more of a 3-4 rusher anyway and the Bills are very much a 4-3 team these days. Seattle’s 4-3 under might be a better fit for him. Hughes turns 31 this year but he had 13 TFL’s in 2018 (two more than Frank Clark) and 12 in 2017. At his age, $10.4m cap hit and the fact he’s out of contract next year — there could be a deal there.
Another option could be Kyler Fackrell. He had 12 TFL’s in 2018 and 10.5 sacks in a breakout year. The Packers have added Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith and Rashan Gary this off-season. Fackrell is nowhere near as established as the other names suggested but he might have more upside and more to play for.
Aside from that the options appear limited. That’s why the Seahawks could be more aggressive than you might think — either with Ansah or via trade with someone like Clowney or Hughes. While they are rebuilding through the draft they still want to compete. The lack of an established pass rusher is a major hole on the roster.
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Hadn’t considered Fackrell; he’s so young and had such a good year, it would surprise me if he was made available. Is he a LEO? I thought we viewed him as more of a SAM when he was drafted. The other names do not excite me, other than Clowney/Ansah. I’d feel so much better if we just signed Ansah, that’s the obvious play here, if he can get healthy.
The problem with Fackrell in terms of Seattle is a poor short shuttle (think he ran in the 4.6’s) and at his size a 1.61 10-yard is fine but not outstanding. But he made some plays in 2018 and Green Bay is loaded with pass rushers now.
Ansah is the obvious play but we have to remember — you can’t sign him if you don’t feel he can play. He has a legit shoulder issue which is why he’s still a free agent. Signing him today is all well and good but if he’s basically Dion Jordan in terms of availability it’ll just be a sure-fire way to blow $10-12m.
I feel like if Ansah’s should checks out (big if), he will be a Hawk. Competitively, the Hawks have more money available to offer, allow for a more direct line to snaps, have a defense that will allow for him to showcase his ability and health, and are motivated to sign someone. If he is not healthy, we move on to the next option.
I think they have worked hard to hoard picks next year, so I will be surprised if they move on from anything at the 4th round or higher. that basically leaves Fackrell as the option for trade mentioned above. Maybe Shaq Lawson? I think Hughes would cost more than a 5th, but I could be wrong.
Other Free agent options that would prefer to see in order are: Perry. Derrick Morgan, Shane Rey, Kony Ealy, and Michael Johnson. Some combination of these guys could help to add depth and volume to the sack totals
I agree I think if the shoulder checks out there’s a very good chance he’ll be in Seattle. It’s also a big if as you noted.
I think if Ansah is a no-go they might be a bit more bolder than Shane Ray, Kony Ealy and Derrick Morgan. Those guys aren’t getting it done. And Carroll isn’t in the mood to waste a year.
It will certainly be exciting if gets into the trade market. I know it hasn’t always worked out, in terms of trading high draft capital for players, but it definitely adds an element of intrigue to the offseason! I think back to the acquisition of Harvin and Jimmy(!), and remember how exciting it was at the time. I wouldn’t mind a splash like that again for Clowney. In addition to digging into the impact all of the new hawks could have, imagining the defense with that type of wrecking ball at end could be fun!
Looking at the list of leading sack getters last year and possible trade candidates due to lack of “win now” mentality of team, and recognizing that I know nothing about their contract statuses at the moment…
Ryan Kerrigan (WA) 13 sacks
Jason Pierre Paul (TB) 12.5
Calais Cambell (JAX) 10.5
Kyler Fackrell (GB) 10.5
Yannick Ngakoue (JAX) 9.5
One more reason they need to do something now about the pass rush: team philosophy. Do we really want a situation where our D can’t get a stop, we’re trailing by too many points late in the game so the play action run is no longer credible, and Russ has to pass 45-50 times a game to an extremely young receiving corps? No thank you. This is no dig at #3, just that – especially if Baldwin retires – we have Lockett at WR along with a whole bunch of question marks. This team is not designed to win shootouts. I loved most of our draft selections but really wish we had somehow found one more edge rusher to go along with Collier. I would think the trade of Clark should free up enough money to go hard after pass rush help, but I don’t know how we compare on that front with other pass rush-needy teams.
Do I have this right? If it was possible ot get Clowney for a 2nd, then basically they traded Clark for Clowney and a 1st this year if Clowney walks in a year. The comps would be a wash, would have gotten one with Clark, get one instead with Clowney.
In a vacuum, yes.
But also need to consider the impact of the move on the locker room. A team of players that saw FC as a leader and he was shipped away to bring in JC for essentially the same money. May leave some thinking negatively aboout the FO.
I would be surprised to see Clowney moved for a 2nd. Possibly both our 2nds, or just our first next year in my opinion. All speculation at this point of course
I’m not suggesting it’s possible to get Clowney for a R2. It’s more a case of — Clark went for a R1 and R2 because the Chiefs were willing to pay that. If nobody is willing to pony up for Clowney, the Texans have a choice to make. Either keep him for one more year or trade him now to get a better (and guaranteed) 2020 pick instead of waiting for a possible 2021 comp pick.
I think a Clowney trade is unlikely unless the Seahawks want to be ultra-aggressive and just rate Clowney so highly. Ansah is clearly the much more likely scenario but it all comes down to his shoulder. And if he can’t play — they’ll be forced to look at other options (including veteran trades).
could we possibly pull both off?
Ansah long term and Clowney long term?
I wouldn’t rule anything out.
This team wants to win.
Clowney/Ansah or bust for me. Let’s go get a super bowl this year. We could’ve done it in 2012, why not this year? The rosters are very similar, although we dont have an Earl, Kam and Sherman in the secondary. Although we do have guys who could be real nice players.
Mcdougald is solid, I still like Hill, T2 could take a step forward (hes always been best when he can diagnose a play early, hes going to improve a lot once he can do that and it will add a lot of range). Blair could start wrecking people and covering TEs week 1. Amadi could help us out vs the Rams, covering TEs or slot receivers. And all their receivers are slot receivers lol. I think one of the linebackers will play the malcolm smith role.
All we need is a legit talent on the DL, I would trade for Clowney and extend him. Then add a DT and this roster is definitely going to be competitive.
Hawks signed BJ Autrey as a UDFA as well. I like it! Looked like Fluker 2.0 at the Senior Bowl.
Solari clearly likes his Guards to be enormous. Would be surprised if Pocic is not play C not G at camp.
Great! He can develop while on PS. Would love to see them sign Albert Huggins, if he hasn’t signed elsewhere.
Huggins to Houston.
I’m so happy Cable is gone. Big mauling nasty guards are so much more of a fit for this team imo
If we can’t get Ansah, I’d rather sign one of the Nick Perry/Allen Bailey group for rotational purposes and then focus the offseason and training camp on really trying to get our young draft picks on the D-line to pop like Reed did last year.
I don’t think, even with Ansah or Clowney, that we’d be contending for a title this year anyway, so I’d like to protect the draft picks and the 2020/2021 years after all of the teams that have been contending off of cheap QB play finally have to pick up the tab.
The Seahawks finally managed to get out from the 2017 disaster and have a very bright future ahead of them. Just stay the course: Sign Wagner and Reed. Roll some cap over for once. Trust in Wilson to deliver and Pete to get a young and hungry defense to at least average. That’s a 10 win season probably right there and we’re within striking distance in 2020/2021 to really go for it.
Does Calais Campbell have anything left?
I wonder if Jacksonville would view him as expendable after having snagged Allen at #7.
He has two expensive years left on his deal but neither of them have any cap hit for cutting him.
He does but Jacksonville aren’t giving him up.
He’s a vital player for them.
What about trading a 4th for Shaq Lawson to help with run defense and setting the edge and then Anzah for the speed rush?
While it was never possible for Clowney to live up to the insane hype placed on him coming into the league, I think he is a really great player who can absolutely take over a game and wreck offensive gameplans. So the question(s) I have is:
Do you think the front office would be more comfortable paying a large contract to Clowney versus Clark? Overthecap just posted details on Clark’s new contract – $19m bonus + $805k in 2019 + $24m in 2020 = $43.8m guaranteed over the first two years (doesn’t include small workout/roster bonuses). Chiefs can get out of the contract after two years if they wanted. Do you think Clowney would sign for that?
Tyler Lockett is beefing up!!!
I realize after watching the press conference that Pete and John are very much in the mix for pass rushers but I would caution them on any aggressive moves this year. I know that Clowney sound sexy but do you really want to give up a 1st or 2 2nd’s and then sign him for 20m+?
It might sound like giving up on the season but I would rather have PS/JS building through the draft the next few years then giving premium picks away again. For me I am willing to go through a mediocre season and possibly make the playoffs again then mortgage the future.
As noted in the piece, the price tag only gets that high if someone is willing to pay it. And they don’t have to extend his deal.
I’ll tell you who isn’t willing go through a mediocre season — Pete Carroll.
I don’t know about giving up high draft picks, but there is almost zero chance that we roll over cap this year.
We have 26M right now, add 10M for baldwin, 5M for Chancellor, 4M for Mingo, likely another 3M from Jaron if new class works out ok.
48M total, you can do a lot on phase 3 with that much cash in your pocket. Realistically Ansah, his bookend and Suh would not break the bank. Suh is unlikely, but that is the kind of buying power we have. We do have to sign a couple of people, expect Wagners contract to eat slightly into that, but not much since it is spread out.
We are currently spending 100M on offense and 60M in defense, expect most of that cap to go into Defense
I don’t understand how the Baldwin money frees up, if he refuses to retire (aka Kam) then are we freeing up cap because we are cutting him or does he just not get paid if he isn’t playing.. Not sure how IR works in this case.
Cutting Baldwin post-June 1 or if he retires before the season starts will both save $10M against the cap. The cap hit in both cases would be $3.1M.
Here’s a good explanation of Kam’s contract/injury situation:
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-kam-chancellor-wont-play-again-but-he-may-remain-officially-a-seahawk-for-a-while/
I love the numbers game in the NFL, it is a ridiculous system that somehow still manages to make sense.
Here are the scenarios:
Baldwin can’t retire without talking to the team, if he did he would have to return a prorated amount of his sign in bonus.
Baldwin should also not retire if the team confirms they won’t go after his sign in bonus (like they did with Marshawn) because then he would not be able to qualify for a 1.2m injury settlement as per the nfl players union guidelines.
The Seahawks can’t cut Baldwin before June 1st, because then they will save only 7m against the cap instead of 10m
Realistically, the best solution for Baldwin is to stay on the team until after June 1st and then fail a medical check up. At that point he has all the cards in a negotiation with the seahawks front office and should walk out with his full bonus and an injury settlement. Baldwin is very likely to fail a physical, he has had a shoulder operation, a knee procedure and a sports hernia operation. The sports hernia operation in particular is not the kind of procedure an athlete looking to get on the field this year would do, so his retirement is pretty much guaranteed.
On a separate note, I know I said we would spend almost all cap space on D, but Kearse may be available at a discount this year.
Should have given it to Marshawn…
In all seriousness, this still smells the Hawks are like paying for sins of the past. If we trade high picks for a splashy player like Clowney, we’re not learning from past mistakes. Part of me wonders if the Clark trade was necessitated by a need for picks just as much as his going rate. I’m all in on Ansah if healthy, but I don’t see a good way out of this for a competitive DL in 2019. They may just have to sack up for a season and pay the debt.
Every trade for a player now shouldn’t be cast as another mistake before we even witness the outcome.
Draft capital doesn’t mean jack sh!t if you are always a bottom feeder and just look at 49ers.
I for one is happy about D. Brown trade and pay the price for Clowney if possible.
Ziggy Ansah is not the long term solution, and his body is in worse shape than ADB at this stage of his career.
We all know JS is going to trade down and really there is no need for 15-18 draft picks next season.
After May 7th in a perfect world the Hawks use the avaibke cap room to sign both Perry and Ansah (of healthy).
Then add one more Vet DT to the rotation. Mohamed Wilkerson is still on the market. Does he have anything left in the tank or are they better off signing a guy like Liguet or Shelton?
Like Wilkerson as well. He does provide that inside pass rush @ 3T. But, GB is 1st on his list, wanting to return after his season ending injury. I’m not sure he’d want to head west to play in the Hawk’s youthful D-Line. It would be nice though.
A big body like Shelton is probably needed most to plug up the middle, and he’s only 25yrs old.
A guy I know is fired up about the Seahawks signing a UDRFA CB from the “fighting orka” of Mississippi…. LOL
Do “we” think Seattle might kill 2 birds with 1 stone….
1 Stone) Sign Ansah
2 Stone) Trade for Clowney
Pass rush problems…. over.
ok, maybe 2 stones for 1 bird (pass rush)
Depends on the money. If Ansah is healthy, and willing to sign for less than $10M/year, then why not rent Clowney too for the season paying at most a drop of 1 round of 1 pick in 2020?
Both Ansah and Clowney on the roster sure would change the equation
would Hou take a 1st and give us a 2nd?
The problem with Sunday’s GOT episode is that was supposed to be the penultimate battle of the entire series. It’s what nearly 8 seasons have been building towards. To get it done in a single episode was a colossal mistake. They should have had some ebb and flow to the battle, some ups and downs for the heroes, then taken an intermission and finished it up next week.
Also, Jon Snow is the true heir to the Iron Throne. He is the hero of the series. It’s ok he didn’t deliver the blow that kills the Night King, but he should have at least been involved in the assassination instead of running to and fro inside Winterfell’s courtyard like a daft idiot hiding from the wight dragon’s ice fire.
There is evidence that when he finally made his move to shout at the Undead Dragon like he did he was actually shouting “GOOOO” to Arya, who was blocked from getting to the Godswood by said Zombie. He stands up to shout, few seconds later the White Walker’s hair is moved by air flow as he start to look around, then next scene is the stabbing. So he sorta kinda was the sacrificial hero.
I saw that theory last night so I watched the scene again.
Jon just shouts at the dragon. He’s not shouting st Arya.
I also paused the video after she killed the NK and there is no tree or even a platform for her to propel into the air like she does.
I can’t believe half the stuff they do makes it to the final cut. Zombies using industrial chains was bad enough last season. That entire episode was preposterous. This wasn’t as silly but it wouldn’t take much to avoid such obvious nonsense and yet they keep on making the same mistakes over and over and over again.
I keep going back to it, I know…
But hopefully this will be made much more clear in the book. C’mon George!!
(I forgot about the chains! I have no defense for that. Absurdity)
“But hopefully this will be made much more clear in the book.”
Well, we should know by 2035 or so….
Martin, like Rothfuss, has checked out. Just like Suh and his heavy purse. Good luck ever getting anything out of either of them again. Pisses me off those two.
The idea that your favorite hero “should” live up to some predestined moment I think belies the conceit of the series: that anything can and will happen at any time, and expectations be damned. That’s part of what makes this show and the books special, is that they don’t cater to the telegraphed story arcs we have been conditioned for.
Be ready for the ending to be counter to what you wanted, by now it should be no surprise that the writers don’t much care for obligatory gestures. One of the great satisfactions of this story is actually having your expectations thwarted masterfully.
I want my expectations thwarted.
The problem is recently my expectations being thwarted means ridiculous zombie chains, main characters being rescued miraculously or simply wearing plot armour and Arya wearing trampoline boots to win the day.
At this stage just give me Bron and Tormund sharing a beer at the end, the lone survivors.
One way to thwart expectations is to push the envelope of disbelief past any semblance of reality. For example, Arya dropping out of the sky from nowhere, or Jon Snow running around like a lost fool while everyone else is fighting for their lives, or any of the other heroes somehow surviving an hour-long last stand.
I also take exception to the fact that the true heir to the Iron Throne, Aegon Targaryen, King of Andals and First Men, Protector of the Realm, etc, wasn’t even part of defeating the NK.
I take exception to the last two or three series.
They should be made to go back and have another go.
Go get Datone Jones, Michael Johnson, and Kony Ealy.
Eugh
Well, just thinking of options outside of trading draft capital (plus the money we’d have to pay to extend, say Clowney) and Ansah & Suh.
I think a rotation of involving one or two of those options could make sense.
Kyle Rodolhp TE of Min trade block. I see a good fit with hawks don’t mind giving 5th or 6th round.
Your thoughts?
I don’t think they will trade for another TE
hey Rob, do you think they would consider Suh along with Ansah or Perry? He did meet with Seattle last year and apparently wants to stay on the west coast. Might not be a personality fit but he would make a big difference. Thoughts?
I can’t see it. Suh might be done. He’s made $140m out of a football career. He mailed it in last year.
Im with Rob on this one… Unless he is willing to play for a smaller contract commensurate with him playing a decreased number of snaps, I don’t see him joining the Hawks. My guess is that for a similar amount of money that Suh will demand you could get a combination of Shelton, Bailey, Wilkerson and Liuget. I feel like the extra depth of adding any 2 of those guys would be more valuable than 1 Suh
I really hope that they will not get too aggressive in search for pass rush.
A year ago everybody expected this team to have a losing season. So much talent was lost that it was impossible to think otherwise and yet, somehow, this young and raw team with serious pass rush needs after losing both starting DEs (Avril&Bennett) won 10 games and made it to the playoffs.
It wasn’t about hidden talent we did not recognize before the season. It was about a different team spirit that pushed this team to perform way beyond expectations.
We have marked the pass rush as the biggest need long before they traded their best pass rusher and with just one pass rushing pick in the draft the writing is on the wall – MUST GET PASS RUSH URGENTLY.
I know you can point to the end of the 2012 season and how signing Bennett and Avril drove us to that championship team but in most cases when this team went for a “game changer” to fill a spot of desperate need (Sheldon, Graham, Harvin) it did not work that well and sent negative ripple effects that effected team spirit.
We talk about Ziggy’s shoulder now. Not a word about his on/off switch mentioned here repeatedly before trading Clark. That is exactly what “desperate” makes you do.
I really hope they find DL help. I do.
That help MUST fit this locker room, hungry, eager to prove himself, with minimal draft picks cost and playing under a reasonable contract (far from Clark cost).
Anything else will cause more harm than good in the overall outcome.
I want a player crying when they get the call…or we’ll be crying about it in a year’s time.
Nobody would advocate adding a player who is a poor fit.
But equally sitting on their hands and not doing anything will just likely lead to a defense who can’t create any pressure and a wasted season.
And now that they’ve paid Wilson, wasted seasons are not on the agenda.
Right, we are completely unable to anticipate the psychological make up of these men, and how they will fit in with the culture of the locker room. So for blog purposes we can only speculate on that component. I haven’t read anything to indicate that Ziggy is unmotivated to compete, so with him being a top level pass rusher (when healthy) I am willing to work on the assumption that he has a growth mindset, he’s a competitve guy that was allowed to leave the team that drafted him without much fan fare, and he would be a great candidate for a “prove-it” type deal. But the fit is absolutely something we can only guess at, while the FO gets to actually meet with the man, have psych evals done, and allow him to meet with some of his potential teamates to get an idea of his mental make up. So like the shoulder, gotta trust the FO to do their homework. If he is signed, to me, that means the shoulder is adequate, and the FO is comfortable with his mental make up.
One point I would make that is a bit off the beaten path is I would prefer it be a two year deal. Go ahead and give him this first year at a fair value, and tack on the 2nd year for a similar amount. It is certainly a gamble that you trust your evaluation, but it is also something that can pay off next year. Something like 2 years, 20M, 14M guaranteed. It gets him his 10M this year, if all pans out and he stays healthy, we get him for another year at 10M without him getting an exorbitant raise. If it doesn’t work out, we are eating around 4M next year.
“wasted seasons are not on the agenda” makes me cringe… It directly effects the “Nobody would advocate adding a player who is a poor fit”…
For example:
To me – Clowney as a “one year rental” at 17M is a horrible message that goes against everything this team did since the end of last year.
If Ziggy is healthy and ready to come here on a prove it deal (6-8M tops) I’ll be fine with it. Anything less as far as his health and eagerness or anything more as far as cost – NO THANK YOU.
I know RW got his contract. He has earned it leading this overachieving roster last year. If that makes this team desperate to “WIN NOW” and break away with the revolution they started a year ago it would be a shame.
What we learned last year is that any PC team is a WIN NOW team regardless of it’s talent, experience or cost of QB. Nothing is wasted on Carroll’s team. They “always compete”. I am fine with that.
I don’t see what is cringeworthy about adding one of the top pass rushers in the league to give this team a much greater chance of competing in 2019.
The Seahawks’ pass rush is inadequate. It will cost them in 2019. They have to do something and they have the cap and ammo to be proactive.
Ansah won’t be signing for $6-8m tops so you’re not going to get him either if that’s your ceiling.
This is what John Clayton had to say about Ansah:
“According to sources, the shoulder is structurally sound, but he has to build back his strength. That will take time. It’s possible he might not be able to practice until mid August. With only a couple of weeks to get into football shape, he might not be able to play in the first game or two.”
So yes, 8M tops for a player that could possibly not regain his top football form till way into the season.
NFL players always equate money with respect. In my eyes, some of them equate money with a sense of entitlement.
Any pass rusher that is sitting at home in May should be thankful for an 8M deal and come in to prove he was grossly disrespected.
My contract offer for Ansah:
4M base + 200K roster bonus per game + 400K per sack.
That won’t get it done
You won’t get him for $8m. Clayton was talking well beyond eight figures
I’d bet the Hawks would hope to get Ansah for $12mil and would be willing to go to $14-15 mil on year one depending on what other teams they’d have to fend off. If a 2nd year were in the cards I’d guess they’d have to offer $16-18mil for year 2 with minimal guarantees. That’d give both parties a potential win-win. Hawks could get 2 years of solid production if Ansah is healthy or could get out after 1 year if he cannot recover. Ansah could get paid a relatively fair market value for his position, age and coming off of a significant injury. He also wold have potential to get good money on year 2 if healthy. the average would work out to around $16-17mil AAV which is around what I’m guessing they budgeted for Clark prior to him turning it down pre-trade.
Man, that 80 yard run by Ansah downfield for the tackle on AP has me pumped! I hope we sign him.
More than likely 13.5 M. IMO
Seems like a two year deal is more likely. Ansah is not looking to be “thankful as a pass rusher sitting at home lucky to be paid” but paid what he’s worth. Whether it’s Seattle or another team a $22-25 mil two year deal with $8 mil guaranteed should get it done.
Love Fackrell and mocked him to Seattle when he entered the draft. I think Shane Ray along with another player (via FA of trade) could really work. Ray comps relatively close to Chris Clemons. A one year deal for him could satisfy both parties.
Suh certainly packed it in during the regular season but proved he has a lot in the tank in the post season. Not my preference of addition too, but he could be a player on a team w/o AD who relishes more in being the focus of a DLine. Not to mention, sticking to his one year rental team.
It’s impossible to project Ansah’s next contract because we don’t know how bad the shoulder injury is.
I suspect he will get an offer of one year from Seattle of +$10m depending on the shoulder but we’ll see.
Rob, shouldn’t one of the “top pass rushers in the league” have achieved double-digit sacks at least once in his 5 year career? I get that you look at TFL/ pressures in your evaluation but even a guy like Fackrell has out produced his sack total despite having roughly 50% of Clowney’s talent. That’s a red flag for me. Jadeveon’s athletic profile should = dominance but it hasn’t, despite playing in a system that is designed to get him free rushes.
No doubt in a contract year he’ll have a “breakout” season, but I don’t want players whose engines only redline for $$$.
Sack stats can be deceptive.
The fact he’s among the league lead for TFL’s the last three years is all I need to know.
Sacks numbers or TFLs, Clowney is a great asset for any team in the NFL.
However, A pass rusher rental at 17M a year is the opposite of everything this team has done for the past year. If this is indeed their plan the could have kept Bennett and fuck team culture.
Also, if they are really that desperate for pass rush at any cost, they would have picked Sweat and Collier or drafted Collier and Winovich or even use both firsts to trade up for Gary.
I really hope this is just us talking and not actually something they plan on doing.
They literally rented a DL two years ago.
Look — I get it. People are scared off by the Richardson deal.
The Rams made the exact same type of trade and it paid off BIG TIME.
And next year the Seahawks have a load of picks and just made 11 in this draft so they’re not going to be active in free agency next year.
It’s all cool.
Sorry Rob, I totally failed to make my point.
I am not afraid of a Richardson type of failure. That one is just part of business, win some. lose some.
I fear what i do mot understand. Last year the Seahawks had no business playing as fun and good as they did. They certainly did not the proven talent to win more then 8 games. But, they did.
Whatever it is that made them play that way – I’d like to keep it.
I’m not surer it related to signing a rental DE 17M a year but i feel it is. There is nothing about this team the says “Ohh we’d like to pay Clark’s Tag price t a one year rental that will makes us a better team.”
They know RW earned his contract playing for this team. So do Wags and Reed. They want to earn their contract and get a bigger share of the Seahawks cap cake. They know that Frank Clark earned a big offer and a tag playing for this team and they would welcome good players who come to compete and earn their contracts playing for this team.
A rental coming to “save the ass rush” and move on….NO…that doesn’t work for me with the team I enjoyed so much last year.
I just don’t understand why anyone would think the dynamic of the locker room would collapse purely because they added a new player who happened to be on a franchise tag.
That’s simply not true.
What’s more likely to cause unrest is not having anything like an adequate pass rush and it costing the team a wasted year.
If they did add Clowney — who has no character issues to speak of and has proven he’s one of the leagues best edge rushers — the team are much more likely to say, ‘cool’ than they are to have some bizarre mutiny or for the chemistry to be in any way tarnished.
I just feel like some people are overthinking this. The Seahawks are going to add a pass rusher. Probably add multiple pass rushers. And if Ziggy Ansah’s shoulder isn’t right they will look elsewhere.
They want to win and so they should. Nobody’s arguing they should give up their entire 2020 draft to go all-in on this year. If they gave up a pick when they have 10 including five in the first three rounds to give themselves an actual pass rush — they’ll be a much stronger team for it. It’s as simple as that.
I’d rather not be competitive and still win 8-10 games versus destroying the competition in the young locker room.
We JUST purged the last vestiges of malcontent in the locker room, we don’t need to invite more.
Keep the defense young, hungry, and willing to give 110% for that big pay day.
Why the hell would adding Clowney destroy anything?
That’s just OTT.
I was just listening day 2 presser from 2017 draft. Ibwanted to.hear again Petes opinion on Delano and Shaquill.
And guess what…pete said “We know Delano can play safety, but we think he can play NICKEL and mutch up with WR’s. So maybe there is our 60-70% of snaps nickel corner (with Blair at SS and Bradley FS).
That’s been my assumption: McDougald at FS; Blair at SS; Hill at big Nickel. King and Thomas will compete for Shaquill’s spot at CB. Camp is going to be fierce.
I like the Jerry Hughes idea Rob. If I remember correctly he was a 1st round pick by the Colts and they cut him or traded him for basically nothing and then he did really well in Buffalo. Every time I watch him I think of him being a Seahawk type player. He has an excellent motor and he’s aggressive and fast.
Pete’s not getting any younger, but the “win now” mentality negatively impacted the depth and quality of our roster. I don’t like mortgaging the future for high priced rentals. Frank Clark is better than Clowney. If we acquired Jadeveon at a price similar to what KC paid for Clark I would consider it a net loss. Also, I don’t believe the Texans would settle for a 2nd rounder for Clowney. Someone will pay more and it better not be us.
I was hoping we would draft back-to-back DL for this very reason. We are depleted along the DL, and DL is the key position group determining team success. I understand that there was a massive run at the position and the pickings were slim by the time we made our second pick, but I think we’ll regret not taking Winovich. In time, he would have become a Chris Clemons style LEO, imo.
Now we’ll have to manufacture pressure with the blitz which is dicey for a young secondary.
Trading for one player with potentially one pick is not mortgaging your future.
Especially if it’s a low 2nd that turns back into a low 3rd in 2021. For a year of Clowney in a potential championship window, that’s completely worth it. Plus we’d be well served to sign a BAMF DL long-term, and like you said, if they trade for Clowney then they feel he is that guy over Clark. If they don’t trade for him then they don’t feel that way and it’s all a moot point anyway.
Clowney is a better DE than Clark, so if the Seahawks could somehow replace Frank with Jadeveon, at the same price, but after gaining the six new players from this draft (which includes DK Metcalf for God’s sake!), that would be the mother of all coups. Re Clowney, this all comes down to what long-term contract he would sign. If he would sign a long term deal for the dollars that the Seahawks were willing to pay Clark, this is a no-brainer trade. We all know that the Seahawks are going to draft a DE in R1 or R2 next year, a prospect unlikely to be anywhere near the level of Clowney, at least in the first couple of years. So why not spend that pick now on Jadeveon and have him on the field right away?
Clowney has never had double digit sacks, has major injury concerns, and is older than Clark.
” older than Clark”
Agree, those 4 extra months are killer
I dont think Clowney has ever had less than 20 TFL+sacks in a season.
I think Clark has only hit that 2 times.
The injury was his rookie season, and he has been very sturdy since.
Sack is not everything, putting steady pressures and defend the runs, fly routes is his game. Hawks has no clues on those fly & jet sweeps last season, and let Tevon Austin ran into end zone untouched is not acceptable.
Hate to say this, but Clowney might be a better theme fit for Hawks than Frank minus the flashy plays.
I think a 2nd & two 3rd next year for Clowney is a fair trade with Texans, and I can see clearly now why Rob is so high on this guy.
I also wish they pick up Bailey as well because the guy is just plain vicious and violent. Reed, Poona and Bailey is a very good rotation package.
Our DL all the sudden changed if we can have Clowney, Reed, Bailey and Collier.
Sure, but even with the injuries, he is beating clark in almost every cat, so that says even more about him that he gets that production with more limited starts and injuries.
What about trading a 4th for Shaq Lawson to set the edge and help with run and grab Anzah for speed rush? Bills not extending his 5th year option and we have had good luck with underachieving Bills players for our 4th rounders.
Trying to think what the starting rotation would be right now along the defensive line. I guess this.
Marsh – Reed – Ford – Jefferson (hopefully Green or Collier)
Have a feeling it could look like this:
Ansah – Reed – Shelton – Green/Collier
I think we’ll see 2-3 additions to the DL before the season begins. And those guys could easily all end up being starters.
I agree that they will add but that is why I said “right now” meaning what we currently have.
In premise, I think he was agreeing with you.
For early downs, as it is right now I would say
Collier, Reed, Ford, Green/Jackson.
Branden Jackson was actually used a lot last year as an inside out DL. I think any combo of those 3 DEs could start. But we’ll see who they add.
They need to do something.
I’m still perplexed to why they didn’t add a single Leo type in the draft.
I think waiting on Ansah is a recipe to have him sign somewhere else. And I don’t like giving up major draft capital for Clowney.
At the end of the day, I’d rather lose a third round pick than a first. But then there’s the shoulder issue.
This team looks pretty exciting at every position now besides the defensive line. Maybe having one flaw is ok.
Keep Jones Ford Christmas and Reed as the DTs
And Martin Green Collier Marsh and Jefferson as the DEs
The draft worked against them. They knew what they wanted to get out of the draft (that included DB & WR) and once they’d solved those two issues — the draftable DE’s had all but gone.
Throw in the fact that Cody Barton is the first ‘Seahawky’ linebacker in a draftable range for years and it compounds the issue.
And as much as we discussed Christian Miller and D’Andre Walker, clearly teams had issues there, most likely due to injuries and incomplete profiles.
Let’s also remember that simply drafting ‘any’ LEO or EDGE was not necessarily going to solve the issue in 2019. They would’ve still had to acquire proven experience after trading Clark.
If they lose Ansah they lose Ansah. So what. Look elsewhere. They have options and being impatient for a guy who might not even be able to play in 2019 is not the answer.
So, if we sign Ziggy then the trade would have been clark for collier and zigs + cap room. Not bad. I like the idea of trading a mid rounder for Lawson. Could be a nice pickup. On an aside, I listened to a podcast yesterday where they criticize the Seahawks for the Collier pick. They said he was not a speed rusher and he was more like James Harrison.… Sometimes… insanity. If the Seahawks drafted James Harrison at the back end of the first round it should be considered a major accomplishment. And quite frankly I like the comparison I have seen. ijust listening to Colliers interview. he is the BAMF that Rob has been advocating for. Violent, passionate, aggressive, tone setting. This is the kind of guy you want on your team. When he had the chance to show out at the senior board he took it and dominated the game. Not like Montez sweat who got handled as much as he flashed.
While I would agree that simply on the eye test Clowney is a better player than Frank Clark; I also remember that merely 2 months ago we were all pointing fingers at the fact the Frank accomplished his numbers with significantly less snaps as a reason to pay him.
Frank: 2018, 728 Snaps, 13 Sacks, 10 TFL, 27 QB Hits
2017, 740 Snaps, 9 Sacks, 10 TFL, 21 QB Hits
2016, 682 snaps, 10 Sacks, 11 TFL, 18 QB Hits
Jadeveon: 2018, 902 Snaps, 9 Sacks, 16 TFL, 21 QB Hits
2017, 895 Snaps, 9.5 Sacks, 21!! TFL, 21 QB Hits
2016, 737 Snaps, 6 Sacks, 16 TFL, 17 QB Hits
Clearly Clark is more efficient at actually getting to the QB, and Clowney appears to be more of an all around game wrecker (all this is obvious on tape as well). But is this because of scheme and what they were asked to do? Or is this who they are?
Frank also has DOUBLE the Career #’s of forced fumbles as Clowney. Is this simply PCs focus on the ball showing? Or again- is that who he is?
For me, in my opinion, I would say that Clowney is the better player. And as a 1 year rental on the Tag- I’d be very open to trading for him. But if I was going to Pay one of these guys long term- it would have been Clark.
I’ll throw out a couple other names too.
Mario Addison. I doubt that the Panthers let him go. He pretty much IS their pass rush. He’s older than Hughes but more productive. Panthers are tight on Cap, and already restructured him once. They also drafted Brian Burns and Christian Miller. Perhaps he simply a casualty of the times. He will also be UFA next year (I think). Addison is (or was) producing Clowney level sack #s, with Frank level TFL #s, all for basically 10 mil.
Vic Beasley. Whats his value? He will be UFA next year. I know the Falcons rejected trades at the deadline last year, but what about now? Will a change in scenery kick start him again? He’s 2 years removed from a 16 Sack season. Obviously the last 2 seasons sucked, but that’s the only reason he’d potentially be available anyway.
Rob I like picking up ansah if healthy if we could land him and also sign Danny Shelton to sure up the middle against the run. I like ford and reed is a stud. I’m sure I’ll get some shit for this but I think trading for Solomon Thomas, like a 5th rounder that we could recoup by trading back as we usually do would be a nice addition if we can get the most out of him like we normally do with players who come here. I think he could do very well, he doesnt have elite speed but he has great measurables. then we have a great young core of players with Green, Collier, Thomas, Martin, Reed, Ford, Shelton, and Ansah to be the veteran presence
I considered Solomon Thomas… But I would be shocked if the Niners traded him in Division
Yes but they are set at defensive end with bosa and Ford they were willing to trade for Sherman but they didnt think we would trade them since we are in the division so they waited for him to be released so maybe they are willing to trade with us just not sure if we are with them I think he is a great athlete if we can get him to give us his all and coach him up I think it would be worth it for a 4th or 5th rounder that we can just trade back to recoup since we all know thats what we will do anyway haha
This is kinda exciting. Ben Burr-kirven is basically a marginally less explosive, slightly more agile version of Devin White, physically.
Athletic Comparison – BBK (4th pick in 5th round) vs Devin White (5th pick in draft)
Weight: 98%
Height: 101%
Arm Length: 99%
Forty: 97%
Vertical: 85%
Broad: 98%
3-Cone: 101%
Short-Shuttle: 103%
Interesting comparison. Wonder how it stacks up to Cody Martin.
Ben Burr Kirven had 176 tackles last year. Stats like that tell me more than measurables I think. 176 tackles in one season has to be some kind of record.
White makes plays on the other side of the line of scrimmage. BBK doesn’t.
Rob, looks like you’re fighting a real uphill battle trying to get folks to stop obsessing over the bright, shiny object known as sack total.
Question for those who insist we absolutely must replace Clark’s 13 sacks or we’re doomed. Which team would have a better chance of going to the Super Bowl? The team with 43 sacks on the season, or the one with 30? Okay, most of you are bright enough to recognize you’re being set up. Yeah, 43 was the Hawks, 30 the Pats. Looks like getting rid of Frank and those burdensome 13 sacks is a winner. Interestingly, NE got rid of their leading sack guy (7.5) too (for far less booty I might add) and I doubt there’s as much whining about that like we hear around Seattle.
Setting facetious aside I don’t care if we get one, two, or however many additional D linemen with hopeful sack stats that will offset or exceed Clark. I just want them to get talented enough guys that they will know how to get the best out of them. Don’t look at what they can’t do, support what they can do well. It’s a team sport. If our 11 guys work better together than theirs on each play, we win.
I don’t think sacks are the be-all stat of pass rushing, but even if fans want to only focus on sacks, an argument could be made the +13 sacks are already on the roster.
These numbers are entirely reachable:
Martin from 3 to 6 = +3 sacks
Green from 1 to 5 = +4 sacks
Mingo from 1 to 4 = +3 sacks
Reed from 10.5 to 8.5 = -2 sacks
5 more sacks from some combination of QJeff, Poona, the nickel CB and the other LB’s
Consider any sacks from Collier a bonus
This is why sacks are deceptive though.
Because sure, they MIGHT be able to make some of the production up. But is that group going to create consistent pressure and impact opponents? No. And that’s what seattle needs more than simply collecting sacks. They need players who can impact opponents.
I agree they need more on the d line. I am a little curious as to why you don’t think the second year guys will make the jump. do you think they aren’t skilled enough? is it that they just haven’t proven themselves yet? I thought both green and especially martin looked like they would be ready to contribute this year. not trying to be difficult just curious on your thoughts on martin and green.
I never said I don’t think the second year guys will make a jump.
Expecting them all to do it and then combine to provide an adequate pass rush to a threatening level, however, is severe wishful thinking.
Does anyone really expect Rasheem Green and Jacob Martin, combined with rookie L.J. Collier, to be enough? I highly doubt it.
They need more.
Those three players might barely replace Clark’s sack total, and we already needed more pass rush even with Clark.
What happened with your perception on Green though? You said he could have been a top15 (or 1st round?) pick in this year’s draft if he stays 1 more year in college. I think getting coached by NFL coaches and building chemistry with the teammates is at least as good as 1 more year in college experience. If he has that kind of talent and potential, he might just need more opportunity. I think if we use him at least heavy in our rotation, he can be a 5-6 sack guy hands down. If he’s a starter he might be 5-6 sack guy, but also has potential for 7-9 sacks too I think. And if he gets ton of playtime opportunities he could be a 10+ sack guy next year. He might not…but at least we know.
Actually I highlighted that Lance Zierlein had written in his pre-draft write-up of Green that he could’ve developed into a top-15 pick in 2019 had he stayed at USC. I believed he had great potential too but that was a reference to what others were saying.
And let’s be clear here — believing Green has potential in college to be a high draft pick doesn’t mean that once said player enters the league and you see him in the NFL you have to install blind faith in his ability to take a giant step forward in year two. The simple fact is Green showed absolutely nothing as a rookie and while he has time very much on his side — he’s in the category now of needing to prove it on the field before any level of faith is invested in him.
We also need to stop referring to how many sacks a player can get. If someone plays 80% of the defensive snaps at defensive end, getting 5-6 sacks is NOT good. It’s not a mark of anything. A team will collect a certain number of sacks per season one way or another. What we need to be focusing on here is consistent pressure and the ability to impact offenses week-to-week.
Ohh, OK, I remembered wrong about that then. But we also cannot know why Green was in only a really few snaps. As it is pretty hard to gather pressure% (I guess unless you have a pro pff account maybe?), I can only base my assumptions on the eye-test and other stats. I think Green was raw, he also had some minor injuries, and he could’ve build his frame a bit I guess? So needing experience + unable to play much is means to me that he’s not a “reached his ceiling” player yet, and has every potential to be a breakout player.
Not saying he will, and not saying you disagree with it, but it is a LOT less emphasized then a potential trade for example.
Most of the people here thinking like: “PCJS didn’t go heavy DL, maybe because how the board fell and they already knew they’ll most likely bring in a couple of guys to be starters”. Maybe they think Green and Martin has legit starter potential, and while they’d like more passrush than last year, it could come from those guy. And they are cautious so they go the general rounds with FAs.
Not saying they won’t get 1-2-3 FA rusher, but it’s a potential that they’ll only get outside guys if the price is really good, and it is possible that those guys will have to fight hard for starter jobs
They are not going to rely on Green & Martin.
And Green has a s*** ton of work to do. However much potential he had coming into the league.
cha, to add to your list Q Jeff was tied with Martin for third most.
Rob, I agree pressure is more important than just sacks. To add another stat that might be related (I think so), NE had 18 Int’s to Seattle’s 12. Some of that can be attributed to CB/S skills, but those guys are helped by a good rush. But a good rush and whatever it’s measurables, also is helped by good coverage. Back to getting the most out of as many of the team members as you can by scheming/planning for their skills. That combined success is harder to measure except by w/l outcomes.
I share concerns about getting some pressure off the edge , but I wonder if Burr-Kirven , Blair or other special teams players couldn’t do this for a year? They are a little light in weight- but attitude is a big help when rushing. If they moved around before the snap I could see them causing a lot of disruption. Like Clay Matthews was doing for the Packers.
Seahawks still have some defensive guys to sign long term. I would rather they continued to reset in the draft and without signing outside players to big contracts. I think they should take a break from spending all the cap and see how the other contracts play out. If it is a smaller amount then sure it’s worth a try.
You’re not making up a pass rush with defensive backs and backup linebackers.
Talents come with a price and that is why you don’t see R. Wilson type of player dangling in the market.
KC is no fool and we didn’t fleet them, they simply see an opportunity and assuming the risk.
Pete’s presser tells me they are going for a home run and Ziggy Ansah is just a back up plan. If you willing to pay then why not shooting for the best.
They could look to blitz a little more to manufacture some pressure. I think that might be option B as they normally like to just rush with 4.
We often go for HRs PC thought we had Kalil Mack last year. Gotta let it play out.
I think they are a lot higher on those “back-up linebackers” than most think. I don’t think they pay for a free-agent just to do so. If the price is wrong, I don’t think they bite on anyone. I’m a lot more inclined to believe that they’ll do some interesting personnel formations, 5-1-5, 5-2-4 with more use of safeties.
Plenty of folks thought the offense wouldn’t survive without Richardson & Graham last year (not you). I think they’ll be fine without Clark.
I’m sure they are high on the linebackers, as am I.
But there’s no way they view BBK and Cody Barton as a solution to the pass rush. Carroll’s already explicitly said they intend to be busy to add more players over the next couple of weeks.
They have, I just don’t see them doing any big or long-term deals. I think they get 2 DL (1 end, 1 tackle), but I think Ansah and Suh are likely to price themselves out. I also think they’ll want someone willing to be rotational. Is that Suh or Ansah at this point? I have no idea. I could easily be wrong about everything.
I don’t see any big long term deals either.
Signing Ansah would be short term anyway. And if they make a trade, they don’t have to sign said player long term.
They have a heap of cap space now though to do something for 2019. And they will.
I think they’ll play much more x-3-x. And I think one of those LBs will be BBK or Barton (but I think BBK more). Not for passrush, but the league will use a ton of KC/Rams style offenses soon. Ton of missdirections, sweeps, screens, short passes, using RBs, TEs on short routes, etc. They need a good tackler, sideline-to-sideline safety/LB hybrid guy who can be utilized in more ways. So 3-3-5s, 4-3-4s, 3-2-6s, 4-2-5s will come more frequently in my opinion.
Base package could be: Collier-Reed-Green/FA for DL, when they wanna bump to 4 use both Green and FA, if want to use 5 maybe Green-Poona-Reed-Collier-FA/Martin.
LBs will be KJ and Bobby. If they want a guy who can react they could use BBK or maybe Kendricks or Barton. If a rusher then Kendricks or Martin. If they line up 4 LB then KJ, Bobby, Kendricks/Barton and BBK
Base safety package would be McDougald and Hill I think. If they want more near LoS boom then bring in Blair.
I think and hope they’ll utilize big nickel or a S/LB hybrid more. Especially against the Rams and the Cardinals
They never was able to fully utilize Graham in this offense and Pooh is just cheese and cracker after ADB & Lockett. Frank is their big dog in that D, and they trade him because they could not refuse KC’s aggressive offerings not because they want to get rid of him. Pete & JS was never gun shy of acquiring those kind of alpha dogs.
They got 40+ millions of cap space this year after Doug, Kam, Brown and Mingo off this roster, so what are you going to do with it?
Listening to Pete on Brock and Salk today it is clear that he feels the same way Rob does and he said repeatedly they are not done with regards to the DL.
I think before camp they sign at least 3 vet DL maybe even 4.
Edge – Ansah and Perry (If medicals checkout)
DT – Shelton and Liuget
They should have the cap space to sign these guys and extend Booby/ Reed. Definitely will if Doug retires.
I would like to see all the DL they sign on two year deals with the option for the team to get out after year #1 without any harm. That gives them the chance to aggressively address the position next year in the draft if need be while still having a hedge while the young guys develop.
2019 DL
DT: Reed, Liuget, Poona, Shelton or Rookie from E Wash, Q Jeff
DE:Collier, Green, Martin, Ansah, Perry, N Jones
That looks like a really solid and deep group if Martin, Green and Collier develop as expected.
I can’t see us taking 11 DL into the season.
I like this better:
2019 DL
DT: Reed, McCoy, Poona, Jay-Tee Tuili (Rookie from E Wash)
DE:Collier, Green, Martin, Perry, Marsh
Christmas to the practice squad along with Meder. Not sure if Orchard is PS eligible either?
SEA declines to pick up Ifedi’s 5th year option. I guess that means they like Fant and Jarmarco long term
Fant is a free agent too next season.
All today’s decision tells us is they aren’t prepared to commit over $10m to Germain Ifedi in 2020 as things stand.
They could re-sign him in the off-season. He could walk. They could draft or sign someone else.
Nothing is decided.
Yeah that was a bit of a hot take. Could be nothing more than trying to light a fire under Ifedi by making him earn an extension rather than merely exercising an option. Though I’d argue extending Fant is fairly trivial from a salary cap perspective compared to Ifedi. Also what about Nkansah?
Not sold on Fant as a full time starter in the NFL. If Ifedi doesn’t get resigned then Jemarco Jones would be our RT, right? Or is he a LT only?
He certainly doesn’t profile as an explosive run blocker… not gonna be firing off the ball, I see him as a LT.
We have to let the situation play out.
Too early to say on any of these guys.
Robert Nkemdiche was declined his 5th year option as well. Pete Carroll’s reclamation project for next year. Book it.
Shane Ray is in Seattle for a visit. Found this from the Denver site, and it’s not a glowing endorsement. Pass rusher only, with no run D, per the article. (heading into last year)
https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/2/20/17031712/shane-ray-grade-2017
Shane Ray has a remarkably similar physic profile to Chris Clemons – which doesn’t necessarily mean anything at all, but I found it interesting none the less
http://www.draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=28131&DraftYear=2003
http://www.draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=119720&DraftYear=2015
Presumably this would be a minimum deal and would be in addition to a different signing. Ray has no market.
In that case it’s an excellent lead. Low risk, potentially high reward. How did you rate him in 2015?
Hey Rob, I had replied to the above comment a bit ago and received a notice on the reply that “this comment is awaiting moderation” or something along those lines. Any idea what’s going on with that?
Any comment that contains multiple links automatically needs to be cleared by moderation.
It’s a filter WordPress uses to combat spam.
Good to know!
Perhaps the Jags would do a player-for-player trade for dudes with one-year remaining on their contract? Yannick Ngakoue for Germain Ifedi + mid round pick?
They just drafted a RT in the second round
Jags have 16 DL on their current roster! Yannick reported to camp and then left. He’s scheduled to make only $2.1 million or so, which is (I think) less than Josh Allen, who hasn’t played a down of NFL football. Yannick has 30 sacks in 3 years. Jags will extend him.
Marcel Darius on the other hand, could probably be had. He’s due some crazy cash next year, so they will likely cut him after this year.
Whether we want him, is another story. There are worse options out there, I suppose.
Jacksonville only just re-negotiated with Dareus to keep him.
The Jags aren’t going to give Yannick Ngakoue away.
Didn’t realize that. I just looked at his cap number for next year, and saw that they save $20M by cutting him next year.
I was under the impression that they could use another run blocking lineman, as Cam Robinson hasn’t exactly thrived. Are we certain Taylor won’t be used at left tackle?
Taylor couldn’t even unseat Martez Ivey as the left tackle at Florida. For me he’s a pure RT or might even have to kick inside. IMO his combine, his body shape and everything — was as disappointing as Greg Little. The Jags seem to love big name linemen and injury risk so it’s all good for them. But Taylor will be their RT. They’re not adding another.
I know Pete has mentioned how important pressure percentage is to them, does anyone know of a good way to compare that stat among NFL players?
Pretty cool that D.K. Metcalf was the #1 receiver in sparq this year. Even cooler that Gary Jennings was #2.
A tremendous boost in potential over their last 2-WR draft of Amara Darboh and David Morre in 2017
Just as excited to see what Jennings can do as I am for Metcalf. Jennings strikes me as one of the most Seahawky WRs in recent memory.
According to who? Zach Whitman has then at #4 and #14. Both are great athletes though
#4 and #14 according to 3sigmaathlete. Both are great athletes.
Ifedi not given 5th year option of 10.35M…. not a shocker.
I think he is closer to staying long term, than walking out the door.
I also think Iupati might get beat out by Haynes in training camp.
Not 100% about that, but I have this funny feeling they might go young on the LG spot, if at all possible. OL is increasingly becoming less predictable as they stack players before TC.
I would love Haynes beating our Iupati. But Haynes seem pretty raw to me
I marked up the guys we already talked about recently on this blog
(I might have missed a few, if they were earlier this spring or last fall)
Here are the reported undrafted rookie free agents:
B.J. Autry, offensive line, Jacksonville State (discussed previously on SDB)
Taryn Christion, quarterback, South Dakota
DaVante Davis, cornerback, Texas (discussed previously on SDB)
Noah Dawkins, linebacker, Citadel
Lo Falemaka, offensive line, Utah
Jazz Ferguson, wide receiver, Northwestern State
Jalen Harvey, safety, Arizona State
Justin Johnson, tight end, Mississippi State
Demetrius Knox, tight end, Ohio State (discussed previously on SDB)
Bryan Mone, defensive tackle, Michigan
Derreck Thomas, cornerback, Baylor (discussed previously on SDB)
Jay-Tee Tiuli, defensive tackle, Eastern Washington (discussed previously on SDB)
Terry Wright, wide receiver, Purdue
Are you counting the comment section? I know I mentioned Jazz Ferguson, if so.
That would bring us to hitting on almost half of the UDFA’s! Nice.
I think UDFA Autry is likely to earn a backup guard spot. Simmons, Hunt, Pocic might have a hard time making this team.
Simmons played really well when given the chance last year.
I could see Hunt gone and Pocic becoming the back up center. Maybe the guards to be Lupati, Fluker, Haynes, and Simmons if Simmons doesnt get hurt in camp.
Anyone know the records for most 5th year options not picked up in a year?
Whatever it is, the 2016 draft would have to be close to breaking it.
Not sure about all time, but 17 were picked up and 15 declined this year (2016 class). The last two years, it’s been 20 picked up and 12 declined.
You’d have to pony up a lot (both in trade comp and contract), but trading for defensive end Yannick Ngakoue would be highly appealing. Very unlikely we could pull it off 😩
Very, very unlikely.
Apparently Jags don’t want to resign him and he didn’t show up to camp.
Who said they don’t want to resign him? I think they want to figure out HOW to pay him, considering the DE market just blew up to about $20M/yr. He’s still under his rookie deal for another year at $2.1M, and they could then franchise him next year.
I don’t think they have any intention of dealing him. Even if they did, it would put us right back to where we were with Frank, as it will likely cost at least a 1 & 2, plus we know he wants a new contract that is up there with Clark & DLaw.
That still doesn’t mean they’re going to deal one of the better young, cheap pass rushers in the league.
It’s gotta be the worst draft of this decade
@nathan
I feel like Rob’s underestimating Green and Martin and Poona. I know we can’t bank on those guys making huge steps forward, but saying something like “Without an elite passrusher we would not have any pressure” is a bit too much too early for me. Also I don’t think Perry or Liuget makes ton of sense unless the FO sees them as 8+ sack guys. We have depth. We have Jackson, Jefferson, Naz. Those are 3-6 sack guys like the previously mentioned FAs. We can get more depth, but having 5 guys who could make 6 sacks does not equal 30 sacks from them.
I think if we’re thinking like 2-3 years, then Ansah would be great for a contract like 16 (10) – 16 (6) – 14 (0).
I don’t need mediocre guys who’ll take snaps from younger guys. If we get someone it should be a player who can way outplay Green or Martin or the rest of the group. A 10+ sack potential. Or a “specialist” for example in run defense. If we talk about rotational/depth guys I want iDL. Currently only Reed and Poona are the clear DTs on the team. The rest are 5T or movable guys. I want some big boy to play inside and clog the interior running lanes.
So for me: NO trade, keep the picks, build through the draft. Get a DE with potential (I’m not mad if he’d be a bust, but he need to have potential to get 10+ sacks) from FA. Get a big run defender DT (it can be via trade, but nothing more than a 4th or 5th)
I’m not underestimating anything.
The team’s Head Coach is on record as saying they need more.
They’ve met with practically every remaining free agent defensive lineman and pass rusher apart from Ndamukong Suh.
I like Ford and Martin and Green has to show more in 2019. Believing that’s a good enough line with a rookie L.J. Collier thrown in is just blind faith. And the team doesn’t agree.
I say bring in as many guys as they can and let the competition begin. If the FA balls out and knocks a guy like Naz off the roster then so be it. Conversely, if the FA doesn’t show much, put him back on the street. Always compete!
Agreed.
Always compete.
Maybe I didn’t compose well my previous comment.
I absolutely agree that they need more players, and will sign 1-3 DL/EDGE guys at least.
I know they want more pressure and last year was not enough
I just say that last year’s Martin, Poona and Green hopefully won’t be this year’s Martin, Poona and Green.
They can step up, and I doubt PC would reject those guys.
And where we might not agree that I think they scan their options with the FA guys. They might sign Ansah or trade for Clowney or someone else, but I doubt it. I think they want cheap guys to compete on the same level as Green and Martin and Poona. And I think that they might be hopeful at least one of those guys will step up, and a starter position might be one of these guys’ to lose.
So I don’t think they wanna push big money or draft picks to bring in a (mostly) clear starter. Not because they wouldn’t like to have Ansah, Clowney and all the other guys. But they seem much more resource-sensible. The way they handled contracts, the Clark trade, not cancelling comp picks, etc.
I feel PCJS is planning a deep PO run this year, but they also eyeballing 2020 and 2021 for an SB run.
If Ansah is healthy they will want him, they will try to sign him and will probably land him.
I think we can go too far into thinking they’ll be overly conservative now. They’re just going to be smart.
Pete is thinking short and long term. They won’t undermine their efforts this year whatever the scenario.
And we all hope Martin, Green and Ford progress. But pinning your hopes on them to make major steps forward and create loads of consistent pressure and thus the answer is unrealistic. They won’t do that. Thus all the meetings with FA pass rushers and DL’s.
I’m really not concerned about losing Ifedi. If we want to keep him, we’ll likely be able to. We should extend Bobby and Reed before the end of this season. Then, we can extend or re-sign Fant and Ifedi. Or we can let Ifedi walk and try to replace him in the draft (I’d rather just try to pay him $10M/APY for a few more years).
If we let him walk we’ll be able to keep the depth guys who also need deals next year like Moore, Roos, Simmons, Jackson, Marsh, Vannett, King, Jefferson. All those guys might appeal more than Ifedi. Especially when your replacement will be cheap too from the draft.
Looking at 2021, there might not even be a lot of guys we want to keep. It’s a shorter list (that will likely change), but at the moment we probably would only want to keep Britt, Griffin, Ford, T2, maybe Hill, BMac, and Naz Jones. Britt and BMac will be 30 and 31 respectively. This means that 2021 could be a year for us to tie a lot of money from our big contracts into. If we load a bunch of big money into 1 year when we have the space, we can sign more guys now than it seems. Plus if the salary cap actually gets the huge boost many are expecting, we would look like geniuses to go trade for guys like Clowney and paying them while everyone’s afraid to.
I actually think its likely Ifedi leaves in FA after another better year. Somebody desperate for OL will open the checkbook. But we’ll be fine. Fant will slide right in, and somebody else will play the 6th OL role if they want to use it. Then you dont even need to replace Ifedi with a high pick.
Pete Carroll on the pass rush: We’re excited about what’s coming up. You guys will see in time.
Fans: Not excited. Make it better NOW
Is Pocic on the roster after camp? I think it comes down to him and Hunt to compete for the backup C spot.
Straight up C for C, Hunt is probably preferable, but Pocic has the versatility.
Pocic better get ready.
But he has an edge due to versatility.
Will be interesting to see what pass rushers become available this summer when some of these rookies start impressing/surprising.
Anybody see that Bleacher Report article ranking the defenses post-draft? SEA 30th? Are you kidding me?? Even in 2010, Pete managed 24th overall scoring defense with little (or very young in Earl’s case) talent. There’s no way a PC coached team will drop off that much in defense this year. A slight dropoff to league average maybe, but one of the worse defenses in the league is laughable. Just like much of Bleacher Report’s content.
‘Bleacher Report’
Hah! Enough said.
Rob, was the trade for hollister conditional? Giving us the ability to cut him and get our pick back?
Also, do you see any trade value in any of our current WRs? Similar to how we traded bennett to philly for a pick plus that wr (name escapes me). Our WR room is filled, and seeing as PC said they plan on getting brown more involved, I can’t see Moore making the team, but could have some value for another team maybe?
It was a conditional 7th. Pete did mention him specifically as a guy they plan to use on special teams too.
Gruden says Trent Brown will play RT and Kolton Miller LT for the Raiders.
4 year $66m for a RT…[think_emoji]
I’d pay the world for a preeminent offensive line.
Not saying that’s what they have, but give me a pass rush and some road graders and I’ll impregnate the b*txh
What…
From GOT, before they ran out of source material.
https://youtu.be/_OvbU6VPTsc?t=44
https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks-sign-12-undrafted-rookie-free-agents
QB Taryn Christion, South Dakota State, 6-1, 228
CB Derrek Thomas, Baylor, 6-3, 192
WR Terry Wright, Purdue, 5-10, 177
CB Davante Davis, Texas, 6-2, 203
SS Jalen Harvey, Arizona State, 6-0, 203
G Demetrius Knox, Ohio State, 6-4, 314
DT Bryan Mone, Michigan, 6-3, 366
TE Mik’Quan Deane, Western Kentucky, 6-3, 237
TE Justin Johnson, Mississippi State, 6-3, 235
WR Jazz Ferguson, Northwestern State, 6-5, 228
No BJ Autry?
Autry is just a camp try-out.
As are also rumored signings Lo Falemaka (OL, Utah), Delane Hart-Johnson (WR, New Mexico), and Noah Dawkins (LB, Citadel).
Looked at the Roster for minicamp, and he is not listed.
You forgot Clemson RB Adam Choice (5-9, 209) and EWU DT Jay-Tee Tiuli (6-3, 340)
Also, watched some MikQuan Deane highlights, is it weird that when I look at his frame, I automatically think he looks like an EDGE? lol get some more muscle on him and maybe we make another Western Kentucky TE change positions.
Rookie jersey #s are out. I like #11 for Jennings and #28 for Amadi.
Seahawks.com has a new photo gallery showing the rookies arriving. Holy crap is Phil Haynes a tank.
https://www.seahawks.com/photos/seahawks-rookies-arrive-for-minicamp#5e053a56-36f3-4f1e-95be-90285ad1eb41
What a mountain of a man. That’s exactly how I like my offensive linemen, big and tough. I think he’s got a good shot at starting at LG unless they prefer Iupati or Simmons.
Bryan Mone… there’s a large dude. 6’3 366 pounds.
Phil Hayne’s upper body is beepin insane