The Max Unger trade created a new hole in the Seahawks offensive line, putting extra focus on the center position in the draft. There’s still no clear indication on what’s happening with Stefen Wisniewski — but the chances are Seattle will draft a center at some point. And why not? The more you study this class, the more you like.
Cameron Erving will likely be the first off the board, possibly as early as the late first round. We could see a bit of a wait after that before a cluster leave the board in rounds 3-4. B.J. Finney is solid, strong at the point but lacks mobility and second level effectiveness. Hroniss Grasu is much more mobile, has the technical quality to start early and seems to be an ideal fit for the ZBS. Ali Marpet is a bit of an unknown given he played college ball at Hobart — but he just looks like a NFL center.
Of all the players I’ve watched recently, Boston College’s Andy Gallik might be the best.
I still want to watch more. I’ve seen a couple of games for each and none for Marpet (we’ll probably never get any Hobart tape). Gallik just seems to provide a more rounded overall game. He loves to get to the second level and is very effective when he gets there. You can see he has the mobility and footwork to excel in the open space and he can be a punishing blocker. He’s also very strong at the point, doesn’t get pushed around and has the same kind of stoutness you see with Finney.
He’s got a really strong lower body — real thickness in the legs and you see that power when he matches up 1v1 and stonewalls against the inside rush. There’s no reason to think he can’t step up a level and combat NFL defensive tackles. He isn’t going to get pushed around and you see good hand placement and leverage.
In the USC game (see above) he just looked superb. Time and time again he secured second level blocks to enhance runs downfield. When he needed to match up vs power he did it with ease. It was pretty much a complete performance as BC ran all over the Trojans for 452 yards. Seattle wants good run blockers first and foremost and this just stood out as a great run blocking performance. On this evidence you wouldn’t be surprised if he went in that late third or early fourth round range.
I tried really hard to note some negatives but couldn’t really find any. He is a marginal athlete. He ran a pretty awful 5.50 at the combine — the headline of an average workout across the board. Yet on tape you do see that desire to get to the next level and you’re not asking him to win any races. Willingness, technique and execution are the key things here. He’s a fighter who wants to find someone to block — and he knows what to do when he gets there.
We do tend to get caught up a little bit in the size/speed/SPARQ angle. The Seahawks love their difference makers but they also like tough, hard nosed players who respond to coaching. Justin Britt wasn’t a brilliant athlete but he was a tough street fighter.
The one thing that might work against Gallik is the size — they do like bigger linemen. Britt is 6-6, 325lbs and carries the weight perfectly. Gallik is only 6-2 and 306lbs. In comparison Max Unger is 6-5 and 305lbs. For that reason they might prefer Grassu (a closer size match to Unger) or even a possible tackle convert like Mitch Morse as we’ve discussed previously. Morse is 6-5 and 305lbs and close to Britt. They play with a similar style. It won’t be a total shock if the Seahawks draft Morse — a good athlete — and try to convert him to guard or center.
If they can see beyond the size and middling athleticism then Gallik could be in play. The Seahawks do focus a lot on body types and ideals and he might just be too small. He’s one heck of a football player though — a battler, a fighter, a technician and a possible instant starter. One to keep an eye on.
Meanwhile the Seahawks continue to look at possible D-line additions:
Free-agent DE C.J. Wilson visiting Seahawks this week, per source.
— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) March 21, 2015
Wilson is a former 7th round pick by Green Bay in 2010. He’s 6-3 and 306lbs. Although he played end for Green Bay in the 3-4, he’d probably kick inside for the Seahawks.
I’m trying to work out whether we can read into the sudden flurry of visits involving defensive players. Ahtyba Rubin signed a few days ago, while Anthony Spencer met with the team recently. They wanted to meet with Chris Canty. Others have been linked too, including Greg Hardy.
Perhaps it’s a sign they intend to focus on the offensive line, receiver and cornerback in the draft? They’ll certainly find better value there in rounds 2-4. I think you can find a starting center and left guard. Yes there will be growing pains — but looking ahead you also get two cheap starters for the next four years. I also think you can find one if not two receivers who can contribute in year one, plus some extra depth at corner.
It’ll be harder to find defensive talent but there are some options. Michigan’s Frank Clark — if you can accept the long list of serious off-field concerns — is a tour de force in the 2013 tape. There are others too with less concerning character issues.
Yet it just seems more likely that OL and WR will be the target, with a corner or two added along the way. That might be why the Seahawks are looking at so many different D-line options — and it could lessen the likelihood that Wisniewski lands in Seattle with the cap room ebbing away.
Glad you like Gallik. Kid’s a mauler right?
I wanted to get your opinion of Cal WR Chris Harper. Had a 4.49-4.51 40 yard dash, 35′ inch vertical jump, 12’0 foot broad jump, and 6.9 3 cone. Good, fluid route runner. I think he’s actually quite ‘Seahawky. Just wanted your 2 cents worth.
And could Seattle of been looking at Mizzour WR Bud Sasser? 78 inch wingspan, team leader, tremendous character, 6’3, 219 lbs. He’s intriguing.
Just read that the Seahawks are bring Harper in for a visit. You must just be onto something!
HA! Good to know that my eyes don’t deceive me. I really like this kid.
Really like Harper. Watched him twice and each time wondered what I was missing. Why no combine invite? Why so little buzz? Just a really interesting player who can certainly have an impact at the next level. Could be a steal. I haven’t focused on Sasser.
Thanks man. I’ve been waiting for your opinion on him. Glad you like him too. Have a couple new guy to discuss with you. May be a tad bit high, but I’d take WR Chris Harper in the 3rd round, It’s essentially a 4th round pick.
V-12 do you know what Harper’s mesurables are?
I like Seattle taking a swing by bringing in the Missu prospect…. go way off the draft board and pull a guy in from left field.
He most likely is a UDRFA prospect, so worth taking a good hard look at him. Maybe stash him in the PS and coach him up.
Maybe a 6th or 7th round pick? IMO he’s worth it,
V12, I just have a mixed feeling about this guy. Talented? yes. Fit? probably.
If he is competition in camp as a UDFA, or maybe a 7th, ok…
But with what we have as “try outs” all ready on the roster, he may be left out…
I’d like to see us go with the plan that seems imminent. We have a solid bad ass DEFENSE with most of our $money spent. So we need to balance the powers to the offense through this draft.
11 Picks. One clear mission! We now have Jimmy Graham as a craZy mismatch, so lets flush out the offense, esp O-line and WR, so it has the fire power to get leads in games NOW, instead of almost always having to ‘battle back’ from half-time. A running team w clock possession etc is nice, but how about we just open it up in the first quarter and actually SCORE SOME POINTS!!!
Please remember the Marshawn Lynch video where he is talking to PC…”Can we score more points?” Lynch asks… PC says, “Heck yeah we can score more points, we r going to need them…”, and MArshawn says, “R u Sure?”…………….
I feel Marshawn was revealing a slight disconnect in Seattle’s philosophy. If you look at our history with Russell Wilson, he can score LOTS of points, but or whole running is the only answer thing is letting us down…
Don’t misunderstand. I know it works, but we also need an aggressive attack first mentality to be more prominent in the beginnings of the games for Seattle. If we can (mostly pass deep) score late in games, then why not -allow- for that from the start?!?
I feel it’s time for Seattle to take the offense more seriously. We need tempo, change of pace…we can do ‘hurry up’ now, and catch defenses with bad personnel on the field, esp with Jimmy Graham!
We need more points early in games. It’s time to pay and trust Russell Wilson to !Ball Out! in the first half… Conservatism has paid off, but we need to “slightly” open things up for us to become dominant!
Not a whole hearted change at all, but a conscious shift to seizing mismatches and scoring earlier, and more often… For some how the heavens has blessed us with a new mismatch weapon in Jimmy Graham… Run Lynch, Strike to Jimmy, Score deep with our newly drafted WR!!!
I’m confused. What guy do you have a mixed feeling about?
You aren’t going to see a change in philosophy, Seattle will still be a running team with Jimmy Graham. Difference is going to be that defenses won’t be able to load the box against Marshawn, and now we have a legit redzone target so we won’t have to kick so many field gulls.
V12 – it was Chris Harper.
@Drew. I know. I just mean shifting a bit our early attack mode. Working to get less 3 and outs, and score more 1st and 2nd quarter points…that’s all…
Oh ok. How doesn’t hr fit into the offense? He gives RW a YAC guy. If Baldwin goes down who plays in the slot. What if they don’t play Baldwin in the slot. I think Seattle wild draft this guy. He’s highly exciting. Subtle speed, owns the red line, ran an entire route tree at Cal. I’d take him in the 3rd round, I think he’s that good. He won’t even be 22 until the 2015
His broad jump was 3′ inches short of the world record. He’s a trash talker, mature, competitive, and says he always plays with a chip on his shoulder.
Damn it cut off. He won’t be 22 until the 2015 NFL season is almost over. He also returned punts for a short while at Cal. Give me this guy in the 3rd and USC WR George Farmer or Bud Sasser in the 6th or 7th.
I think you read his pro day results wrong V12
Harper’s BJ was 120″ or 10′.
Maybe I did, But I still think he’s one of the more underrated receivers in this class. Just feels like a typical Seattle receiver.
I see. That does kind of look like 12 though. Make sense now. Thanks for clearing that up.
Checking up on Harper…Rotoworld reported today that Harper will visit SEA. Clearly they have an interest in him, so you may be on to something.
I also came across a SBN report that CIN might like him, but “in the latter rounds” and referred to him as a “seventh-round sleeper…[or] an undrafted free agent”
CBS has him rated 48th best WR and 381st best prospect overall.
R3 sounds like a bit of a reach.
It may be a bit high. I’d say round 3 or with the pick in the 4th we got from NO. If they really want this guy, they might have to take him there.
I have heard his stock is anywhere from rounds 4-7. And we do know that Seattle will take ‘their’ guys a round or 2 early.
He’s not a sleeper anymore.
Harper, a “poor man’s DeSean Jackson” is not worth a rd. 3. There are many equally good if not better prospects there, and throughout the draft. It is the quick undersized Baldwin+extra type—again. Seems to be popular here.
If he is lower in the draft, then maybe there is more to it. I wouldn’t want to read too much into who the Hawks look at. They look at a lot of people.
It’s just my opinion that’s all. If WR John Brown can go on the 3rd round, then Chris Harper can go in the late 3rd or early 4th.
There’s nothing that separates mid round from late round picks other than one team’s opinion. Not draftscout.com, not NFL.com, not cbssprots.com, etc.
Your going to see a big run on wide receivers in the 2nd and 3rd round this year.
What do you mean extra type? What other receiver besides Baldwin does Seattle have that’s under 6’0? This is the type of receiver Seattle likes.
They will take some of these guys they’re interested in, just like they did last year, and year’s prior. I don’t think it’s this big mystery that some make it out to be. It’s next to impossible to say which player Seattle will pick, but not so much identifying what players they’ll like.
Somewhere in the thread you said you’d be happy with Harper early then Farmer later on.
Interesting you pick those 2 because of all the underclassmen WR prospects in this draft, each stood as much to gain draft-wise as any by staying in college another season. Could be whichever team they end up on gets a real bargain for the pick.
You know I’m bullish on Farmer for that reason. Not as familiar with Harper, but from the little I’ve seen he seems very polished, especially for a jr.
I also like Mizzou WR Bud Sasser too.
That’s just it. Both of these guys are loaded with potential.
And as for Harper your basically getting a 2nd rounder a year early. I’m telling ya, he’s going to gain steam. We see it every year around this time.
I was impressed with what I say from WR Chris Harper and WR Bryce Treggs, who’s another to monitor for next year, when I watched Cal games this year. Harper torched IDK how many NFL starting caliber DBs, and as you said he’s only a junior. Then I see his pro day numbers, was surprised he came out, I ask Rob about him, because he seems like a Seattle receiver. Next thing I know I see Seattle is bringing him in for a visit in April. This just one man’s view, but I think they’ll fall in love with Harper’s confidence, work ethic, character, and maturity.
And maybe his hair too 😉
LOL. He looks ‘Seahawky’ too doesn’t he? They like them some characters.
He makes plays in space, very nice YAC ability. SEA loves players on both sides of the ball who can make plays in space.
Aaaaand he played with some dreadful QBs at Cal. Makes you wonder what he could do with RW, especially as they develop together in the scramble drill.
Hey! You might be coming around to the idea that he’s better than advertised huh? Just kidding.
Nailed it CHAWK. That’s the attraction. Also returned punts as well. Seattle doesn’t currently have anybody like this.
Thank you for keeping an open mind.
“If Baldwin goes down who plays in the slot.”
That’s an easy one. Jimmy. He did his best work from the slot last year and will see plenty of time there already.
Sasser was good, and probably a little better than his on-field production suggests. Mizzou’s QB, Maty Mauk is very inconsistent with his accuracy.
Sasser is a very solid route runner, just a guy who puts something in every category and is more athletic than people think. He also plays teams (coverage), which is a plus.
And that wingspan is highly impressive.
Nice to get some perspective on him. Thanks d.c.!
Speaking of CJ Wilson, I also saw that Seattle is bringing a sleeper prospect from the draft into the VMAC. Tory Slater-6’5, 285-290 lbs., rumored to be a freak athlete, and a hybrid D-lineman.
Saw that too — very interesting. Will do a visits list post soon.
Are you sure that Grasu is the same size as Unger?
He is almost identical in every way… it is scary actually.. the combine numbers were almost identical.
No I know I get that part. I just meant height wise, As I said a coupe of days ago, my favorite C prospects in this draft are Gras, Gallik, and Florida’s Max Garcia.
Unger was 6’5″ 305 / Grasu is 6’3″ 297
I guess the big knock on him is he might not have enough power for the NFL. He is a very capable pass blocker, but not a good at run blocking.
I’m more for getting Gallick in the 4th or 5th, especially when there are so many draft picks in these 2 rounds.
Yeah, I see your point, But Grasu’s playing style and personality are again, I love this word, ‘Seahawky.’
And I think I remember reading somewhere that he was a Greco-Roman wrestler. If he wasn’t his relatives were. So it’s in his blood.
Key phrase in that statement “Unger was 305 lbs.” There is no way that guy was playing at 305 last year, it looked to me like he was at 320 or 320+.
The thing about Max was that beyond his great line calls and his veteran leadership, he could usually take on his man single-handed. I’m not certain you could ever expect Grasu to do that at the NFL level. That’s why drafting a guy like BJ Finney, or Gallik, or maybe even Vitable out of Northwestern seems like a better idea.
Grasu 6-3, 297lbs at the combine. Was listed at 6-5/305lbs during the season. My error.
Seattle has shown that they are willing to take DL guys.. on short term deals.. repeatedly in the last few years. It has worked out for the most part. They have had considerable trouble developing homegrown DL talent, so bringing in veteran FA on the cheap…. smart move.
I like the idea of concentrating the draft picks on the area(s) of concern. OG, C, OT and a big size/play WR.
The wild card, for the Seahawks brain trust, is when and if Seattle grabs a prospect back-up QB in the draft.
This would be the perfect smokescreen for drafting Nick Marshall, technically a QB, but really more likely a CB at the next level.
I hope so man.
Have you watched the interview from the combine with Mike Mayock? It’s on NFL.com. This kid’s stare and intensity were on par with ET. He wants to play CB and prove to the league he can, in a baaad way.
I’ve seen part of it…. I just love the fact he “loves” football. This is probably the biggest trait Seattle looks for… willing to do anything to play in the NFL. He has a huge chip on his shoulder, intensity…. we throw the term “seahawky” around…. this is the guy you can’t help but root for in the NFL. Here is to hoping he finds a home with Seattle.
I second that! Well said Charlie!
John and Pete seem to have found a formula that works, the DT position is the one place they seem to be able to find inexpensive veterans to make into role players. It is very difficult to see any scenario where the Seahawks keep Mebane. A beat reporter (don’t remember who) said on the radio last week that Mebane was open to re-negotiating, but his family was pressing him to hold firm. Very bad advice… for there is no way his market value is much above $3/mil/yr at this point. We can logically assume that cap space is being cleared to sign a C/OG, most likely Wisniewski, since he has basically pulled himself off the market since he visited the VMAC. I don’t have a theory about why Seattle hasn’t already signed him, if they have a handshake agreement, since they have plenty of cap room at the moment. They will only be up against it when they sign Russ and B-Wagz. But there must be a reason, because there is no other plausible theory for Wisniewski to go into hiding at the peak of his earning potential on the market. His value is dropping by the day, if he wanted to sign elsewhere, so this must be the reason?
…looks like a “lucky” draft for the Seahawks… plenty of mid-round centers, and athletic OLs, which is just what we need. Those 8 draft choices between R2 thru R5 should land at least 3 or 4 solid players, if not more, and I hope and expect John to return to form and hit a home run or two in there to land another Sherman or Chancellor.
Don’t forget about Wilson, Maxwell, and Browner. Personally I don’t think Seattle gets enough credit for drafting Wilson. He was the biggest homerun of all. But you are right in essence that Sherman and Chancellor were just downright filthy steals!!!!!
I also think that veteran DL have functional strength that most non elite rookies dont
Exactly. I think Rob used the phrase ‘grown man strength.’
Bingo. Thx V12. Feels good knowing bit by bit the JSPS strategy
I’m beginning to wonder when JS mentioned that this was going to be ‘a really cool draft,’ if maybe he meant they were going to take quite a few small Scholl prospects, mixed in with some power 5 conference guys, and kids with a flamboyant/big personality?
My take on this interview…. the biggest needs for Seattle line-up with the strengths of the 2015 draft class. Hell, when you have 11 picks,you can do a lot of amazing things… move up or down the draft board as you need to, to get the “perfect” guys you want.
I think he means is that its a pretty solid draft all the way through…it’s not just top heavy, you can find a lot of starters in the mid rounds.
I really like Gallik. His shorter stature is a plus in that it gives him a lower center of gravity. He really uses it well to manhandle Antwaun Woods the DT from USC. Woods is also rather short at only 6-1. Still Gallik flat backs him a few times creating running lanes right up the middle. As you noted, Gallik does a good job of anchoring in pass pro and enjoys blocking at the second level.
Would his shorter stature also help out our shorter stature QB when looking down the middle?
Sounds like a positive. Sturdy slightly shorter center to protect RW and yet not block his view!?!
Not sure there was any improvement in RW’s throws over the middle with Lewis at C vs Unger.
Maybe it’s worth a look at the stats.
Great write on Galik Rob. I had him kind of ruled out because of his average athleticism and lack of length but he looks amazing on tape. He is the most dominant center I have seen to date on tape.
I was leaning towards Grasu but now have to go back and watch more of these guys. Marpet is probably the best athlete but I think the 3 best Centers in the Draft are Erving, Grasu and Galik.
Even if we do sign Wisnewski it might be worth taking one of these guys to compete against Lewis and switch Wis to guard.
I think you need to take another look at Cam Erving if Galik is the most dominant center you’ve ever seen.
Jake Smith,C, Louisville 6’4″ 307 lbs
Flexibility to play G or C and can be had down in the 6th round most likely…. plenty of upside / value at that point.
He had some issues with NT/DT Goldman… but blocked for Bridgewater for 2 years prior.
Rob what do you think about the tackle Smith out of Penn St? He looked sluggish on tape to me but I guess he has lost 20-30 lbs and looked good at the Combine and even better at his pro-day. Is he someone you could get in the 3rd who could start at RT with the potential of being and LT? How would you compare him to the RT Willams out of Oklahoma and Crisp from NC St. Thanks
Of the three Crisp is the one I’d choose. Smith has been described as having “natural laziness” which bothers me a bit. I like the fact he is battling to lose weight but I wonder if this will always be an issue.
Rob, you are very high on Crisp and so am I. He is extremely intelligent and technically sound. My concern is his injury history. Other than that, a very good LT.
Below is a general draft model that I have developed after reading the articles and commentary on this site.
I begin with a hit-list of prospects that strike me as offering something unique to the Seahawks, players that could potentially contribute in a big way. Left out are options on the offensive/defensive line, TE and QB (although several draft picks will be left over to accommodate those positions).
Following the hit list, I provide a possible draft strategy (assuming the following picks with no trades: 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7)
Hit list, in no particular order. Includes what makes the player special, and their projected daft position (CBSsports.com – http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings)
1 – Corey Grant, RB. 5’9” 201lbs 4.30 forty. Round 7/FA
2 – Tyler Lockett, WR. 5’10” 182lbs Return specialist. Round 2-3
3 – Darren Waller, WR. 6’6” 238lbs 4.46 40. Round 4
4 – Chris Conley, WR. 6’2” 213lbs. 4.35 forty. 45” vert. Round 4-5
5 – Jordan Taylor, WR. 6’4” 204lbs. Athlete. Round 7
6 – J. Tartt, SS. 6’1” 221lbs. Kam back-up. Round 3
7 – Clayton Geathers, SS. 6’2” 218lbs. Kam back-up. Round 5
8 – Byron Jones, CB. 6’1” 199lbs. 12’3” broad jump (world record). Round 2
9 – Eric Rowe, CB. 6’1” 205lbs. 4.45 forty. Round 3-4
10 – Nick Marshall, CB. 6’1” 207lbs. Versatile athlete. Round 5
Draft strategy, plus comments:
Round 2: Tyler Lockett. Return specialist. Offensive specialist. Big upgrade in return game. Immediate starter on special teams.
Round 3: Eric Rowe, CB. Bolster the LOB, provide continuous input into the talent pool. Competes to start, probably not in 2015.
Round 4: Chris Conley, WR. Not only elite athleticism, but gets more positive film review than right after the combine. This selection over Darren Waller, since the trade for Jimmy. Probably doesn’t contribute for a year, perhaps two, but the potential is all-star.
Round 4: Clayton Geathers, SS. Read his write-up. Nearly a Kam clone. Picked over Tartt given he can be taken two rounds later. Immediate starter on special teams.
Round 5: Nick Marshall, CB/Swiss army knife. Pete can mold this guy into whatever position he wants. Won’t contribute for a year or two.
Round 6: Corey Grant, RB. Special speed, plus potential explosiveness with a 4.3 forty, 37” vert, 22 reps on the bench, and rushing for 647 yards at a pace of 9.8 yards per touch.
With this strategy, the following picks remain to be used for the offensive/defensive lines: 4, 5, 5, 6, 7. This approach would allow the Seahawks to draft Gallic, as he is projected to go in round 4-5.
This is an excellently constructed post, Hawksince77. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks, Rob, that means a lot coming from you. However, as I said in the post, I owe most of my thinking about this to your site and the people who engage in the discussion.
Hawksince77,
Glad to see you commenting! Also if it were me id take almost everyone in your scenario where you slotted them. Actually…
Just looked again at your list and I like it all in that order! Love Rowe, Marshall, feathers as a not quite as formed kam is a great comp.
Plus leaves a good amount of space to look at the lines, as well as an off the wall lb or something like that.
Like the post. Lots of good insight and some great picks. I have not checked out Geathers but will now for sure. I think a backup for Cam is a big need because he is so physical and seems to be breaking down.
i think Pinkins is going to be his backup next year. Plus I don’t think you’d draft a backup in the 3rd round where you can get legit starters for other positions with that pick.
Nice work Hawk. My only concern is that we are going to find it difficult to get guys through to the practice squad. So, if they cannot make the 53 man roster what it the point of drafting them? Quinn and Gus Bradley will be all over our cut list.
One of the things not talked about enough is the second part of the P/S approach. The first part is to fill the team with potential talent. The second part is to evaluate who plays the best. In that approach, you can’t have too many talented players. Nobody knows who will come to camp prepared, who will get injured, who will surprise.
Everyone thinks the Seahawks draft so well in the middle rounds (Kam, Sherman, for instance) but forget that many middle round picks are no longer on the team, or even playing football. The trick is to bring the potential to camp, and see who works hard enough, prepares well enough to find a place on the team.
So the last thing they are worried about (and what we shouldn’t worry about either) is who will make the practice squad or the team. The only real exception is in the very early rounds, where you don’t want to draft a player that has little chance of making the team (say, a first round QB, at the extreme). But every other position can use a yearly infusion of talent, even where we have established starters.
That’s why this draft is so awesome with the 11 picks. Seattle should walk away with piles of potential gold.
With all the free agents signed, players on IR and the practice squad, and eleven draft picks, I look forward to a good competition for starting positions. Unfortunately we will also see some dreams end for a lot of players we have watched. There will be too many players for the six spots available.
That’s very well put together Hawk77. I like how you outlined what them standout/unique.
Well done sir.
Oh by the way, nice heads up on S Clayton Geathers. He’s a guy I’ll have to look into some more.
v12! I figured you would have been all been all over him. He’s got those same overly risky blow dudes up plays that kam had as my all time favorite position ever….”deathbacker,” as he,was called in college.
Jokes aside feathers is my favorite SS prospect.
I actually like Pinkins quite a bit. And I think Dion Bailey is a sleeper too. Now Geathers could probably beat them both out, but I’ve just been focusing more on the FS.
I like both pinkins and bailey, but one thing I love about carrol is his balance between letting a player grow, lets say Jesse Williams and his decisiveness cutting someone. Point is and you know this.. Virtually every spot on the team is up for grabs regardless if a player is already here.
Geathers is a guy who caught my attention oddly when I was searching free safeties. Some site either draft breakdown or NFL.com had all the safeties ranked in some order and I just happened into his tape. An enforcer who takes pride in setting a tone.
I’ll definitely take a look at him.
I also heard that the guy who will have the highest SPARQ out of everyone that wasn’t St the combine is another deathbacker, S/LB Jimmie Hill. Me and my sleepers, huh?
Very interesting prospects mocked to the Seahawks… my only caution is that Seattle will surely pick more than one OL during the five picks from R2 thru R4. I would expect an OL in R2 or R3, another in R4, and another in R5.
That’s certainly possible, and Rob has mentioned several possibilities in the early couple of picks. Not only that, but P/S have demonstrated a consistent willingness to spend high picks on the O-line.
However, it really comes down to value, options, and the state of the roster. Does your view change if Wis is signed?
Also, if the best center prospect is Galick, and he can be had in the 4-5th round, you don’t need to use a higher pick.
Finally, we keep hearing how good the middle rounds are for the O-line. I can’t make the argument, but this seems to be a consistent assertion.
As to the WR class, it is deep varied, but if you want a specific skill set, you may be driven to use an early pick. In the case of Lockett, that seems to be the case. He is the best returner in the class, according to Pauline, and that’s a glaring need on the Seahawks. Signing Jimmy made taking chances on a DGB or developmental prospect like Waller less imperative. And while Lockett may be there at 63, it’s unlikely he makes it to Seattle’s 3rd round.
Finally, I think Pete will make the secondary a priority in this draft. CB/safety. And again, you need to look at where your targets will likely land. For example, if they really like Rowe, do they take a chance and wait until the 4th? Perhaps, depending on how the draft goes.
Anyway, that’s the thinking for my projecting a WR/CB in rounds 2 and 3. Same idea going WR/safety in the 4th. That still leaves plenty of draft capital for the O-line, giving Cable 2-4 guys he can work with.
Of course adding Wis changes draft strategy, but that depends as much on the length and cost of his contract as anything. And overall, probably not as much as you might think.
Depending on how you view Lewis, SEA may or may not have a starting caliber C on the roster. It’s debatable, but I think all of us would agree that SEA should add competition to the position group via the draft.
SEA currently has a starting caliber LG on the roster in Alvin Bailey. No doubt they’ll add competition via the draft, how much and what caliber (which round) depends on signing Wis.
But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if SEA sign Wis, it will be to start at LG (or at least compete for that position) and backup at C.
To me, this means that regardless of whether SEA signs Wis, their biggest need on OL is C. Also, IMO Gallik isn’t even the 4th best C in this draft. At least not for a zbs. I prefer any of Erving/Marpet/Grasu/Dismukes – even Max Garcia – to Gallik.
To your point, if they agree that obtaining a staring center is top priority, and if the prospect they target requires a 2nd or 3rd pick, than I agree, that would be the way to go.
I just can’t judge the quality of the prospects in the draft or the talent they already have to have an arguable position.
Drafting corners will be interesting this year…I don’t know if they’ll keep more than 9 DB’s on the 53 man roster…you already have Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Shead, Williams, Blackmon, Simon, Lane, and Burley. That’s 9 right there, plus there is still Pinkins …not a lot of roster spots…I know there is injuries but if you draft 2 who’s gone?
Don’t forget Steven Terrell and Dion Bailey. Since there will be 90 players in camp, it is normal to start with more than you need at every position.
That’s right…it will be interesting to see who makes it
Lane will most likely start the season be on PUP and possibly IR. Blackmon came in on a cheap deal, so he is on the bubble. Pinkins is on the bubble as well, he needs to improve at either safety or CB.
Your right on Lane but when he comes back someone would have to go.
Gurley I have doubts about long term.
Burley….ha! Not “Gurley,”
I wonder if Lane plays at all this season. The team can bring back one player during the season of the injured reserve. With the two serious injuries that Lane had in the last game of the season, I do not think he recovers in time to play. I think it is more likely Richardson is the player that comes off injured reserve this season.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is a limit to how many players can be on the PUP list. I imagine both PR and Lane will start the year on the PUP list, and then go from there. PUP is different from IR designation to return, which is what you might be thinking of.
Yup… PUP list is limitless, as is IR. But you can only have one IR with designation to return. This designation is routinely saved for players that are not eligible for the PUP list, which Lane is. So he will either be placed on the PUP, or just IR’d outright for the season.
If his knee is as bad as feared, there’s a reasonable chance that Lane ends up on the PUP list to start the season (Paul Richardson too, as far as keeping receivers next season). Also, Blackmon is no more assured of a spot this season than last time he was through. Burely is similarly competing for his roster spot and, as far as that goes, so is Shead, with perhaps a greater head start than the other two. I count only five players in the LOB who I’d list as likely to start the season. The other four listed have a good shot – but not more than that. (To be clear, if Lane is healthy, I’d list him as a sixth likely roster spot.
More than likley Lane starts on the PUP/IR list, so he will not count against the 90, or 53 for that matter.
I don’t think size would be the reason we don’t draft gallik because the Seahawks are high on Patrick Lewis, who imo actually played fairly well during the season, and he is 6’1. Others also like Grasu more (including me) but he is 6’3 meaning he is only 1″ taller than gallik. So I think if Gallik is the most well rounded center, don’t be afraid to draft him based on size. The reason I feel like Grasu is better is that he reminds me of Unger a lot. A leader and has a great personality. And he can be coached up by cable to be a better run blocker. This guy just seems like a stud.
Rob,
What are your thoughts on Dismukes? The Auburn blocking scheme is run first with a sweet spot for read option. I would imagine he could be a target too.
Hi Rob
This is my first post so be nice guys.
I have been reading your blog for the last couple of months since our heart breaking Super Bowl loss and I just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work. You do a great job. I did not realize you were British till I listened to your last pod cast. Love the British accent you should do more of those.
For fun I did up my own Seahawks Mock Draft. I will say I don’t know very much about the small school players so I know I will be missing some players that our front office always seem to uncover.
I tried to do it like Hawk 77 and focus on players with unique skills who our coaching staff could mold and put in a good position to succeed. This also assumes we don’t get anymore free agents or make any trades. Both I know are unlikely.
Rob I am going to go with the comp pics you said we would get 4 (4,4,5,6)
Round #2 Philip Dorsett (WR) Miami- He is one of the fastest players in the draft. He would give us a true Burner and be a great punt and kick returner. Our new linebacker coach and Pete’s son should know him well. If he is gone then I like Lockette too.
Round #3 Darren Waller (WR) G-Tech- He has great size, speed and hands. Everything else can be taught. We have no urgency for a big receiver since we now have Graham and Matthews but with Waller and Dorsett or WR group would be deep and a new strength for the team. PS I really hope P Rich bounces back he seems like such a good kid.
Round #4 (NO Pick) Anthony Chickillo (DE) Miami- Another Miami guy who the coaches should know. I watched the Senior Bowl practices on the NFL network and he was one guy that really stood out to me as a pass rusher. He reminds me a little of Marsh from least year
Round #4 (Our Pick) Anthony Galik (C) Boston College- You sold me Rob 🙂
Round #4 (Comp Pick) Mitch Morse (G) Missouri – He seems to be a battler like Britt and I think that is who they were looking at from Missouri
Round #5 (Our Pick) Shaq Riddick (Edge) West Virgina- Long and athletic. Very raw but I think our coaches could turn him into an Aldon Smith type edge rusher in a year or two
Round #5 (Comp) N Marshall (CB) He just seems like he loves to play and someone I want on our team. Pete makes CBs stars and I think Marshall will be our next 5th round pro bowler in 2-3 years
Round #5 (Comp) Clayton Geathers (SS) -We need a backup in case my favorite Cam gets hurt. Thanks Hawkssince 77 for pointing him out
Round #6 (Jets) C. Covington (DT) Rice- He was hurt last year but when he played he showed the quickness and penetration. We need someone like him because when Hill got hurt last year we had no inside pass rush. I think if Hill plays in the Super Bowl it never gets down to that last play.
Round #6 (Comp) K. Sokoli (DT/DE) Buffalo- Vol 12 pointed him out and when I looked at him he seems like he has the passion we would love
Round #7 L. Gibson (OT) V-Tech – He is a long athletic tackle project. I liked Rob Crisp more but figured he would be gone by this spot.
I tried to even things out and took 5 on offense and 6 on defense. I never took a back up QB as is rumored. I did not take an LB as they already have 5 solid guys on the roster and we can get some UDFAs.
Finally I did not take any players with character concerns or domestic abuse backgrounds. With so many good young men available I think it is not necessary. I personally was glad we passed on Greg Hardy.
Let me know what you think guys but don’t be too harsh 🙂
Ok, Seachick, I will take a stab at it.
There seems to be consensus on this board that we will draft a WR early and O Linemen in the middle or late rounds. I think that is a mistake. We have plenty of WR’s and just added Graham, while on the O Line we lost two starters and have no clear replacements. Historically, 20 O Linemen are drafted in the first 3 rounds. That means 5 OG’s, 5 C’s and 10 OT’s will be gone. If we expect to fill our O Line openings we need to get started early. Gallic will be long gone by round four. He may not last to our pick at #63.
I think two WR’s in the first two picks is a luxury we cannot afford. This is such a deep draft for WR’s that there should be plenty to pick from if you wait. So I would flip your picks around and go for the linemen first and the WR’s in round 4. I am sure I am in the minority, however, so you will probably get less negative feedback than I will.
All in all, a nice job for your first attempt.
Thanks for your feedback Ho Lee. I just tried to place players in the rounds they were ranked or a little earlier. If all the quality are going to be gone in the first 3 rounds then yes we would have to draft one earlier because I think this is a big need as well.
We got Graham and I think he will be an great addition but we still have a very weak wide receiving group. They have been getting single coverage for the last 2 years and still rarely seem to be open except on scramble plays. We will have to agree to disagree that wide receiver is not a priority.
The Hawks are 27th in passing yards per game (3250) but 32nd in passing attempts per game. We are a very respectable 7th in yards per attempt (7.7) and passer rating (95.1) I would contend it is not a problem with the WR’s but the run first offense that holds the numbers down. Russell completes 63% of his passes so clearly someone is getting open and catching the ball.
There are lots of times when Wilson drops back and no one is open so he scrambles. That is another reason for the low pass attempts. I agree with Seachick we definitely need an upgrade at WR. There is a reason why the national media all say we have average wide receivers. It is because we do. The only two guys we have that we even drafted were the two rookies last year.
Yep, need a WR. I would prefer to take one that has #1 potential but a kick returner such as Lockett is also nice. I think we take 2 WR’s in this draft, just not sure where.
But how weak is the receiving group if Matthews, Norwood and McNeil step up? They would not have invested in them unless they believed they could contribute.
Baldwin has a role. He’s a weak #1, but put him in slot, and he is better. Kearse is the weakest WR, but he was playing out of his role also.
They do need an infusion of WR talent. The question is, how many, and what they will do with existing players.
I like your picks Seachick. It’s a guessing game, and you could be spot on.
You are very right Alaska after all our front office always seems to surprise and there is not much you can do if the player you want is already gone. I just hope we get some new young players to get excited about because I think our starters will be as good as ever. We just need to get some more depth. I look at our 2013 team and how well all our backups are doing now and it makes you realize how deep that Championship team was. It was probably the deepest team 1-53 since the salary cap era. We need to try and get back to that so the injuries don’t hurt us as much as they did last year.
That is why I love Rob’s blog because it is so hard for the casual fan like myself to get information on all these college players.
our depth last season was almost the same as 2013, and I would argue that the injuries hurt us more in 2014 than 2013 for reasons other than depth – first, we had a greater number of injuries, second, those injuries were to more important players, and finally, the injuries were stacked in a two vital positions (contributors Marsh, Mebane, Hill all went to IR, Avril knocked out of the Super Bowl, while we had no significant DL injuries in 2013 and Clemons improved over the course of the year as he healed up from ACL injury; the rash of injuries to the LOB at the end of the year was also unprecedented, with Maxwell the only healthy player in the Super Bowl and the Lane injury revealing less about depth and more about the limitations of a 47 man active roster as Burley was inactive for the game). With a 53 man roster limit, it’s impossible to go into the season with enough depth to cover those injuries, especially when so many injuries occurred in the last 2 weeks of the playoffs and in the Super Bowl.
Of course the FO will always be working to improve every position on the roster, so your comment about improving depth is totally valid.
I really like your choices/reasoning for Riddick, Marshall, Geathers and Sokoli (in my order of preference).
I also like Dorsett and Waller (though not as much since Graham), but not both, and not so high. Or put another way, while this draft is deep in both WRs and OLs, IMO the talent curve is fatter (flatter?) in the WR group – there are more WRs of similar talent/skill in the mid rounds than OLs. That’s a long-winded way of saying that SEA’s biggest needs are on OL, the OL talent in the draft drops off more quickly than the WR talent, so SEA should look to OL first, then WR.
Of course, in the end, you take the board as it comes.
I like quite a few of your picks Seachick. Job well done.
Welcome aboard!
I think Ali Marpet is the center we need to target in this draft. Need to get him at 63 because by pick 95 he will surely be gone.
Rob, I know your a busy man, and I can’t thank you enough for already giving all of us this outlet, but did you ever get the chance to look at or find out the arm length for these 3 corners?
UNLV CB Tajh Hasson
Marshall CB Darryl ‘Swag’ Roberts
Boise St CB Cleshawn Page
And here’s a sleeper I’ll unveil. Didn’t want to just yet, but I shall proceed. Missouri S&T CB Will Brown.
Rob, you continue to be the best Seahawk analyst out there. Period.
Rob,
I’d like to get your view on each of these Centers ability to make the line calls compared to each other. Like a ranking of them if possible. It always seemed like the biggest difference in seeing Unger in the game for us especially in the running game was how active he was before the snap calling out reads and having the other linemen do stuff based off what he sees at the line. Sure the individuals ability to block in both the run and pass game is important for a player, but that ability to not only know your job but everyone’s job and assist them based on what is being played has to have as big of an impact.
I just heard a rumor about RW contract
7 years / 15 million per year, fully guranteed
Another reason to like this type of deal is how much pressure it will put on other teams to sign their young QB to a similiar deal in the future. I would guess teams will hate having to ‘respect’ their guys with all guaranteed money knowing their is still some doubt, or holes in their game after 4-5 years.
That would be a team friendly deal. If he holds out I would expect him to get a 6 year contract at 20-25 million with half guaranteed. That much From Seattle, Cleveland or out nemesis Denver. If he signs the team friendly deal then there would be enough money to sign an extra free agent receiver.
Rob, great work on Gallik. Agree with how you see him. Grasu looks likely to go around rd. 3, Gallik mid or low rd. 4. Gallik is from Chicago, and has a mean streak. That is good.
From that tape Gallik does seem like he’s really strong at anchoring one-on-one in run-blocking or pass protection, but I was not that impressed in the open-field or on the move. He has heavy legs/feet and looks like the 5.5s guy from the combine…
We probably wouldn’t ask him to do a ton of pulling to lead-block on a sweep (like BC did a few times against USC) though–climbing to the MLB off a zone combo block of a DT is more within his athletic abilities, and that’d be the primary second-level responsibility in our system.
The thing that would concern me more about his lack of athleticism is how well he could pick up stunts/twists and LB/S blitzes against faster pro passrushers where he’d really have to move his feet (USC didn’t seem to challenge him with this a lot, so he was mostly just left to block the DT in front of him on pass plays).
Of course Max Unger didn’t look a ton better at the combine (5.35 40//7.39 3-cone//4.50 shuttle vs Gallik’s 5.50//7.66//4.58, and Gallik had the better vertical and broad jumps) and despite the height advantage actually has marginally shorter arms (32.5 vs 32.75) and smaller hands (9.25 vs 10.25), so depending on how they think Gallik can develop he’s probably not going to be removed from consideration for SPARQ-type reasons.
Gallik moves better than Finney. For athleticism, I would go for Grasu.
Totally agree. I pointed this out in a previous post when Rob said he was going to look at him. Think Vol 12 mentioned him 1st. Surprised Rob didn’t see it or maybe I’m wrong. What I remember is that he didn’t move to 2nd level nearly as well as Grasu. Also I saw him on the ground a lot, mostly trying to cover ground to stop 2nd effort pass rush. Think he is good when engaged but less so on the move. Still I like him a lot 4-5
I’d be shocked if Gallik is still around in round 5. We have to keep in mind that when looking at where prospects are slated to go, it’s probably a round or two higher than what the national pundits and websites say in regards to some of these ‘under the radar’ types.
When teams begin to bring guys into the their facilities, interview them, put them through personal work-outs, whatever, that a lot of these guys will move up the board, and some will fall down the board. Gallik is probably the 3rd or 4th best C in the country. Might have to pull the trigger on him at the end of round 3 or middle of the 4th, if they want him.
I saw one mock draft that had Gallik going in the first round. Many have him in the second round. I don’t think he is ‘under the radar’. Indeed, most of the linemen we have discussed on this board are top 100 prospects.
No way Gallik goes rd. 1, or I would be very surprised. I would guess rd. 3 would be early for him, rd.4 about right.
No I don’t think he’s under the radar either. I was just speaking more in general.
The thing about picking in mid to lower rounds is not to focus on any one player. You take whoever is available that fits your needs. The Seahawks will find players, maybe even the same players discussed here.
Maybe. On holiday at the moment with bad wifi. Is love to look up where the 3rd or 4th center has been taken for the last few years. And Gallik has some issues of size which will hold him back….
Trying again…..Maybe he goes earlier but… Im on holiday at the moment with bad wifi. I’d love to look up where the 3rd or 4th center has been taken for the last few years. And Gallik has some issues in terms of size which will hold him back….
Back from being drafted high…- like him but maybe lower
I would hire a sky-writer to fly a banner over VMAC spelling out M-A-R-P-E-T LOL. Seriously, Marpet is the PERFECT center we need to get. Just have to get him at 63 because any later than that and he could be gone (truthfully, I wouldn’t even be shocked if Marpet was already gone by the time we picked at 63).
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Rob, what do you think of Duke OT Takoby Cofield as a late round addition? Could he back-up the RT and LT spots?
Seems right on drafting O-Line…I keep hearing their will still be good talent out there in rounds 3-5 in that venue. I think Seattle likes the formula of adding D line veteran rotational talent. They can find players at a reasonable cost and plug their skill set into their defensive scheme. I still think Seattle will draft or pick up some unheard of low round or UFA D-Line guy…..Last year they grabbed Staton (5th) and Marsh (4th)…by the way…what’s the deal with Staton at DT…they cut him, added to PS…cut him and added him to PS again…what seems to be his shortcoming? ( I understand D Line guys ain’t so hot this year in the draft)
Any insight on reserve / future guys like DE Warmsley and Robinson…I think Warmsley was added to the PS later last season…I assume from someone elses PS…
Who does Seattle see replacing Schofield in pass down rotation?
(Feeney SD?….KPL?) Also…
Seattle resigning Scruggs…(I understand he is playing lighter)…your thoughts.
One can only hope Hill can stay healthy and pick up where he left off last year in interior pass rush…Your thoughts on Marsh…and his limited look in 2014.
Thanks ahead of time
Back to the O-Line…looks like Seattle is re-tooling their line for the next few years…Okung’s contract is up next year…they let Carp walk…traded Unger…Seattle added Lewis, made Bailey the new utility guy, drafted Britts (loss of Breno 2014)…I hear rumors Seattle will resign Sweezy to a new contract next year…I understand Seattle likes Gilliam at T…possible LT (he was listed behind Britt last year)..I understand Seattle likes Keavron Milton at G…(another Browns product like Lewis and Rubin DE)…I figure Seattle is going to draft a T…they also have 3 G’s, 2 rookies 2014 on their futures / reserve…Isles (big boy), Renfro and 2 year guy Nowak…JS stated in an interview after the Graham Unger trade that they still have some guys no one has seen that they really like…these must be the guys?
Tell you the truth, unlike most other 12s, I wouldn’t be so quick to send off Okung. Yes, his injury history and penalties are troubling, but when he’s healthy (I know that’s few and far between) he’s pretty good. And he does play the all-important blind-side tackle position. I would pay him at a level that reflects the quality of his play, but I would keep him. I’m sure Russ Wilson would like to keep Okung!
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Guys whom off our practice squad and IR from from last year have potential to make an impact this year.
I was thinking Marsh, KPL and obviously Mebane and Hill. Is there anyone else I should know about?
I’m thinking Marsh is going to be a guy who did nothing last year but makes a real contribution this year. I don’t think he’s going to be a stud or anything, but I think he’s going to be an asset.
Pinkins might. But yeah I’m thinking that Marsh and KPL will both have very good years. Big fans of both of those guys.
Scruggs? He looked good at times if we still have him.
Marsh and KPL both showed flashes last year. I’m expecting solid contributions out of both of them. Pinkins could earn a role next year too. Seachick- I don’t think you’re missing anyone.
Paul Richardson should come off PUP midseason. He came back relatively quickly from his prior ACL repair and regained his explosiveness – there is no reason to think he doesn’t have the work ethic and physical ability to do it again (with better medical/rehab staff).
Scruggs has practiced well past two years, but has had limited impact in games.
Derrick Coleman spent the year on IR, was a solid contributor in 2013 and is likely to be improved with another year under his belt.
Anthony McCoy spent the last two seasons on IR, and if he still has any speed whatsoever (Achilles tears can steal explosiveness), the TE group could be really interesting.
Jimmy Staten and Nate Isles are unique talents on the PS.
Staten has a solid anchor for 2 gapping or standing up to a double team, and he has an ability to get skinny for 1 gap penetration, but he previously has lacked explosion or speed to make an effect in pass rush or get off a block to make a tackle – that said, he could be a solid rotational player in run defense who fills space and keeps blockers off of the LBs – he was drafted so the FO must have seen something they could use.
Nate Isles might be as powerful as Carpenter, looks more aggressive than Carpenter, but he looks significantly slowed by his 350 lbs, and was atrocious in training camp drills when I watched him last season. He was at a small school and dominated at that level without having to work. Tons of natural talent, lack of physical and technical refinement. If he is a hard worker and disciplined this offseason, he could compete for the vacant LG position.
To me, OL and a WR/PR are the priorities for the draft.
Certainly, you have to draft what is on the board – and more specifically, Seattle’s draft board. While we drafted 2 WRs last year, I think we don’t know how PRich will recover and so the speed guy WR is needed.
Last year our PR and KR game was non existent – and I would expect that they want to get something out of that this year. That is why I could see that being addressed at 63. Then double up on the OL in the 3rd and 4th round and get some depth on defense.
I’m almost thinking they go OL with their first pick as well. Do they need a receiver or two? Yeah, but they can afford to take some guys that are raw and might be considered a ‘reach.’
TEs Jimmy Graham lessens the need for a big target. They could use a developmental one, but why stress about finding one?
Their missing that speed/slot/YAC receiver. A guy who can, shout out to CHAWK, make plays in space.
Hey, you’re the one finding these deep draft nuggets V12.
There more I step back and look at the bigger picture, the more I think SEA will look to add WR prospects deeper in the draft. Guys like Farmer, Harper, Alford, Smelter, Sasser, who can be had late Day 2/Day 3 and offer tremendous upside for relatively low draft cost. Guys that, as you put it, give the team something they don’t already have.
Some things I think:
C is a huge need
This draft is deep with quality C prospects
Aside from Erving (who most assuredly will be taken long before 63), Marpet and Grasu are the 2 best C prospects
Grasu is as close a C prospect to Unger as you could hope to find, truly plug-and-play
Marpet has the makings of a perennial all-pro C
One of Marpet or Grasu will be available at 63
Both Marpet and Grasu will be gone by SEA’s R3 pick (absent some sort of trade into early R3)
Wild card prospects include Tre McBride and Kenny Bell who could be in play in R3/R4 respectively
Also I think SEA would give Ogbuehi a real hard look with one of their R4 picks if he’s on the board.
Great point.
That’s what I’m conflicted about. I’d take Gras in the 3rd, but will he be there? Do they see Patrick Lewis as the starter? LG seems to more of a hole right now.
It’s not so much deeper in the draft, well guys like Sasser, Alford, Farmer, Smelter, etc., but rather, guys that are being overlooked. It’s not a big deal if they take a prospect a couple rounds earlier than where the ‘experts’ mock them.
From his comments, PC likes Patrick Lewis, probably will start unless/until supplanted.
I get the feeling you don’t think much of Bailey. Besides him, there’s Nate “Big Island” Isles and DT convert Justin Renfrow. After 6’1″ Lewis, there’s OT convert 6’5″ Jared Wheeler. That’s quite a height disparity from starter to backup (which backup hasn’t played a down of C in the NFL).
As for Bailey, have you reviewed his Combine/pro day numbers? Very, very similar to this year’s OL Combine champ Ali Marpet. Almost identical 40 times (with 10/20yd splits):
4.98 (1.71/2.87)
4.95 (1.72/2.86)
Guess which one is Bailey.
BP, 20yd shuttle and 3-cone are also very similar if not as close:
30, 4.47 & 7.33
27, 4.69 & 7.50
WOW! Those are very close. Thanks for that info CHAWK. I never realized that. Damn…
I like ‘Pig’ Bailey quite a bit actually, but I like him more as a swing O-lineman, or the role that Paul McQuistan used to play for us. That’s just my personal preference. I could totally envision Bailey being our starter at LG for the foreseeable future though.
I remember when Bailey came out. He was regarded as a 4th-6th round pick, and I was stunned that he fell out of the draft. Then I saw that Seattle added him as a priority UDFA, and honestly couldn’t have been more excited.
CHawk- great comparison between Bailey and Marpet. I don’t think we would lose much, from Carpenter, by plugging in Bailey at LG. Vol12 is right that Bailey is highly valuable as a backup at multiple oline positions. If we don’t find a starter quality LG or C in the draft our starting line will be ok. We were alright with Lewis and Bailey starting last year. So if Bailey starts we’ll need to replace the versatility Bailey provides as a backup. We obviously majorly lack oline depth and will draft 2 or more olinemen. My point is we don’t have to reach for an olinemen- or any position really. BPA throughout the draft will bring out the best competition come training camp/preseason.
While Bailey has shown some versatility and talent, he has also shown evidence of a big appetite. I doubt that he could duplicate his combine numbers at the weight he played at last season. Hopefully, he will be lighter and in better shape in the coming season. That would perhaps help the line as much as a draft pick.
I would hire a sky-writer to fly a banner over VMAC spelling out M-A-R-P-E-T LOL. Seriously, Marpet is the PERFECT center we need to get. Just have to get him at 63 because any later than that and he could be gone (truthfully, I wouldn’t even be shocked if Marpet was already gone by the time we picked at 63).
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I could see OL at 63 because the WR class is fairly deep. I could see WR/PR in the 3rd and maybe another with one of the comp picks later – a taller WR. Having Graham helps everything – but a young Sidney Rice would be nice.
Rob and others, have you guys heard of this freak? Texas OT Desmond Harrison- 6’8, 320 lbs., and his arms are solid muscle.
He was the highest rated JUCO O-lineman a couple years back, but was dismissed from the Texas program. And no, it wasn’t for domestic violence, drugs, theft, on campus fights, but rather for paperwork filed incorrectly and not taking care of it. IDK all the details, but somehow BYU was involved.
This kid is a mammoth, plays so nasty, moves extremely well, Texas ran the inside ZBS. I really like him as a sleeper later in the draft or UDFA. Reminds me of a mix between Giacomini and Bowie.
Is he eligible for the draft? Do you have any workout #s for him?
Yes he’s eligible. No workout #’s yet. His pro day is on March 24th.
He obvious has the size and length with talent to be such a highly regarded JUCO transfer. I will be definitely be looking for his workout #s now. Thanks for the heads up.
Man, how the heck do you keep coming up with these guys? Nice job.
Like all you guys, I’m assuming, I love the game of football, but I enjoy these sleeper/diamond in the rough/project prospects more so than I do the top 100 guys. Sure it’s exciting to have those early picks.
I don’t really know what it is I enjoy about discovering these guys. I’ve never really thought about it, I just know it’s a passion.
Also have a few more guys I’ll unveil in a short while.
Wow, that guy is huge. Nice find V12. Wilson’s limited height makes me wonder at what height is a linemen too tall? Maybe this guy could also be a tight end?
According to this December article Harrison will use his suspended 2014 season as a redshirt year and return to the Longhorns in 2015 as a RS senior.
http://www.burntorangenation.com/football/2014/12/16/7405581/desmond-harrison-suspension-texas-longhorns-redshirt
That’s interesting, because on NFL draftscout.com it listed his pro day as March 24th, and has him as a 2015 draft entrant.
That was in December, 2014. He was recruited by Mack Brown. In January, he changed his mind and decided on the NFL draft. Apparently, the new Texas coach Charlie Strong, wants to start fresh with his own guys.
Desmond Harrison is a tremendous athlete. On tape he looks like Michael Oher in The Blind Side only he is playing against junior college and college players. He is 6-8, 313 and runs a 4.8 forty. He got screwed by BYU. Because he isn’t the greatest student he went to Contra Costa CC in California. While there he took an online class from BYU which he passed. It was included as part of his transcripts. There was no problem with the work he did for the grade. Contra Costa accepted the class as did the University of Texas. Harrison was the No. 1 JUCO OT recruit in the country in 2012. After enrolling at UT, BYU decided to revoke his grade because they have a rule that only non athletes may take online classes. This made him ineligible. BYU played Texas in 2013. That’s it.
He played 7 games at UT before the eligibility issues derailed his career. He was suspended from participation twice. Apparently, he has decided he has had enough of college and is moving on. He is raw but talented. He was not invited to the combine. He could lock down the RT job for a long time. All indications are his character is fine.
Thanks for the info Ho Lee. I was wondering what the BYU thing was all about. He caught my eye while at Texas, and then I put on the JUCO tape and was blown away. I know it’s JUCO, but like you said, what an athlete!
Glad you like him too.
If I were him I would be pissed off for greatness. He sounds pretty Seahawky! God, I hate that expression. In any event, I would draft him in the 7th round, coach him up and turn him loose on the Niners.
Yeah I’d take him there too.
LOL. You hate the term ‘Seahawky?’ I actually like it. What does it even mean, right? But who cares, we use it all the time on this blog.
It reminds me of the Cowboys calling themselves “America’s Team”.
If we are looking at size, Trenton Brown is mammoth. 6’8, 355. He slimmed down from 400+ for the combine. 36 inch arms (three feet!) and 10 7/8 inch hands.
Pedestrian at best work-out numbers, but that size is pretty unique. And he can dunk. With arms that long, probably by standing on his tip toes.
Currently seen as a seventh rounder/UDFA
I didn’t bring p Texas OT Desmond Harrison purely for size. He’s a freak athlete too, that plays with an edge.
Trenton Brown is highly interesting though. I wonder about his passion.
WOW – that sounds like unique qualities that Pete loves!
This guy looks like a bulldozer. Seems to have great leverage for a giant. I hope he is on our radar.
Vol.12 I was just checking out the guy you like Chris Harper out of Cal. He seems like a slightly slower version of P. Rich. Nice player but is special about him physically or skill wise that makes him stand out to you. I don’t know much about him but since the Hawks are bringing him in for a workout I would like to know more. Is he a potential UDFA?
He might be a potential UDFA depending on how teams view him. And this is just me, but I think he’s good enough to go at the end of the 3rd, which is probably a bit high, but more likely the 4th round. IMO there’s going to be a huge run on WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Harper isn’t P-Rich at all. P-Rich is a vertical threat, whereas Harper is a true slot receiver. What’s special about him? His route running, ran the whole route tree at Cal, but it’s his YAC ability. Makes plays in space, is adept at ‘owing’ the red-line, describes himself as ‘playing with a chip on his shoulder,’ trash talker, gets up between 5-6 AM every day to hone his craft, and he won’t even be 22 until December. Just a crisp, fluid route runner, with deceptive/subtle speed. Also returned punts briefly for Cal.
He’s just a prototypical Seattle receiver through and through. Last year for example, WR John Brown went in the 3rd round and was projected to go between rounds 5-7. Now Brown is faster, but he’s a deep threat that’s it. Harper’s a much more polished wide-out.
Right. I’d add that Harper is closer to ADB than PRich in terms of skill set, but Harper is more athletic and better at YAC.
Harper is very much a combo of ADB and Golden Tate.
Good comp. There’s some D-Jax to his game as well, and a tiny bit of P-Rich.
But, remember last year when it was rumored there was some mutual interest in D-Jax? I still think Seattle is going to find that type of receiver who can be utilized on fly/jet sweeps, bubble/tunnel screens, reverse handoffs, etc.
If they get a guy like Chris Harper it will only open up the passing game and make RW that much more ‘DangeRuss.’
Harper is described as a “poor man’s DeSean jackson”.
I think we will see a pick spent on Lockett or Alford for the return skills as well as pure speed on sweeps, bubble screens, etc. My preference would be to get Agholor at 63, but I don’t think any of the experts expect him to last beyond the middle of the 2nd round. Lockett probably wont last until 63 either. Alford’s been mocked 5-7th round. Be nice to get him in round 6 or 7.
Yeah, my favorite slot receivers are Tyler Lockett, Chris Harper, Mario Alford, RJ Harris, and Antwan Goodley.
As for the ‘bigger’ receivers I’d say DGB, George Farmer, Kenny Bell, Bud Sasser, and Dezmin Lewis?
You could throw Devin Smith, Nelson Agholor, and Phillip Dorsett into the mix as well, but I’m not sure they’ll be there when we pick. IDK that DGB will either, but I could see him falling farther then the others.
Oops! I’d replace Dezmin Lewis with WR Kenny Cook.
Smurf fans, you keep forgetting to put J.J.Nelson on your list. A return specialist also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSXsTB91umc
Good point – he’s another speedster.
J J weighed 156 pounds at the combine, and has small hands. Smurf is right.
Thanks for the insight Vol 12 you have obviously watched a lot more of him than I have. Sounds like he definitely has the attitude they are looking for. Always root for a guy who works like that.
Your welcome man. I know all NFL teams like guys with high character or whatever you want to call it, but Seattle seems to value or want guys with a unique personality.
Can Harper be a punt returner? Or is that the plan for BJ Daniels? I saw a few Cal games and he can play – but he isn’t the fastest guy out there, so I wonder why Harper over someone like McBride? I’d prefer McBride but what do I know.
I like McBride too. I always seem to leave him out or forget about him. Maybe it’s the small school thing. Is he going to be there in the 3rd round? 2nd round I’d be willing to bet he is. Maybe that’s who they take at no. 63.
Harper’s speed doesn’t jump out at you as much as it is subtle. Sounds familiar.
I did see Harper’s pro day went pretty well – listed at 6’3″ and ran a 4.49 and caught everything, so maybe there is more to him than I realized.
Do you mean Bud Sasser? Because Chris Harper is 5’11, 180 lbs. And Sasser is 6’3.
Just watched the 3 game tapes I could find on Chris Harper. He looks a lot like a Nelson Agholor light to me. Harper has a similar, yet smaller, build and is a similar, yet slightly slower/explosive, athlete. Paul Richardson is another apt comparison in size and speed. I like the find Vol12, but round 3 is too early. IMO Harper is a great looking day 3 target, with some upside. His ability to make people miss is impressive,is a good hands catcher and has pretty good speed to get deep. There were some drops and his route running needs work. He did return punts too, but had a weak average of barely over 6 yards/return. Watching him turn bubble screens into big gains you’d think he would’ve been more productive at PR.
Yeah the average on punts was disappointing, but returning punts is a highly difficult skill set to learn, and he obviously knows how to return them, so the potential is there.
Your right round 3 is probably too early. I should of clarified that I would take him that early. And that absolutely means nothing or that NFL teams might not take him that early. But I think round 4 is where he’s going to end up going. Again just my opinion.
He is raw and offers tremendous upside. He’s not maxed out in the slightest and has a high ceiling. I look at it like this, If you want a guy where what you see is what you get and he offers nothing to work with, then go get a FA.
“Yeah the average on punts was disappointing, but returning punts is a highly difficult skill set to learn, and he obviously knows how to return them, so the potential is there.” Vol12
I think returning kicks and punts is of an more innate skill. Learning how to catch punts/kicks can be improved, and learning when to fair catch can be taught. Making people miss and setting up blocks is more of an innate skill. That’s the reason why I was so surprised to see Harper’s low PR avg. He’s great at making people miss and has plus athleticism. Maybe he can get better at it, but my guess is he’s an average PR in the NFL at best. Then again our return game was below average, so maybe he could help there.
I see what your saying.
I don’t necessarily think Seattle needs one of the best returners in the game per say, but rather just a guy that can flip the field on occasion. Even an average PR would be an upgrade from what we had last year in B-Walt.
Agree with you completely!
What is going on with Bruce Irvin and Eli Harold? The back and forth between these guys sounds like they’re already teammates or something. I’ve also heard a rumor that one of Seattle’s east coast scouts, Todd Brunner, has been spending quite a bit of time down in Virginia.
Could DE-LEO Eli Harold be there at no. 63? Not a realistic option, but interesting.
I would love it if they got Eli Harold. He won’t be there at 63, unless there is a miracle. Irvin is also talking up OG Quinton Spain. Let’s replace John S. with Irvin on these two guys.
Irvin pisses me off sometimes with his comments but you have to love his passion for the game and interest n helping out the young guys. He is a real example of a guy coming out of college who had a lot of red flags but PCJS took a shot and t has really worked out. I thought he was our most improved player last year and went from being a roll player to a legit star at LB. I think he makes the pro bowl this year if he continues on this trajectory. Only problem is how do we pay him and Wags.
I’ve been wondering if they maybe sign a couple guys to extensions sometime during the regular season like we saw this or actually last year with KJ and Avril.
According to SPARQ on the WRs
http://3sigmaathlete.com/2015/03/02/post-combine-sparq-rankings-wide-receiver/
Conley, McBride, Bell have better overall scores than Lockett, Dorsett, etc. Those three remain my favorites, along with Lippett as a special project. Ranell Hall also has a great SPARQ score, even though his 40 time was 4.6 at the combine.
Sammie Coates is number 2 on the list. Somebody will take a round 2 flier on him and end up with a receiver who can’t track the ball or catch it. Waller and Funchess were pretty high on the SPARQ list, too. No score for Agholor, on of my favorites.
I say lets just solve the WR issue this draft and have these guys ready for when Lynch hangs it up.
Rnd #2 Agholor, Mcbride or Lockette
Rnd #4 Waller, Conley or Hill
Go OL in the 3rd, 4th and 7th and then focus on defensive depth with the other 6 picks.
I don’t know about you folks, but when we look at the depth in the reserves at some positions—OL, WR, DT—I begin to wonder how many at these positions they will actually draft.
If they are happy with their reserves and returning guys who haven’t had opportunities yet, they could wind up drafting very BPA, not so much need-based. Maybe this is what JS means when he suggests that the draft could be a “fun” one.
When I start to play with mocks, this stops me cold.
Depth is one thing, quality depth is another. The need to hit on a WR is lessened a bit after the Graham trade, but just because we have a lot of OL/DL on the roster doesn’t mean they are very good. So much of the game is won and lost in the trenches, and the ways things are looking right now they could go either way next year.
Barring any more FA signings I think we need to draft one DL that is good enough to get in the rotation next year, and at least one OL. We should probably take at least 2 players on both the OL and DL.
Kenny Bell is an interesting WR to me as well – and has good speed and is a play maker.
Any OL we draft will be immediately trailing Lewis and Bailey in knowing the system and having chemistry with the other guys. Like it or not, sit back and watch it, because that is a hugely underrated part of our OL play. I’m not sure we are going to get someone who has the other skills to make up that gap at 63 or later.
IMO this draft, OL wise, is about drafting depth and competition for Lewis and Bailey. Not immediate starters. Which makes the idea of spending a high pick on OL questionable.
In my mind the order of need is receiver, DL, OL, corner, LB, RB. (The latter three probably won’t happen). We’ll draft a couple OL in the mid-rounds. Fourth and fifth/sixth.
But as I mention above, there is a lot of depth at DL, WR and DT in the reserves and returning guys already. PC clearly likes Lewis and Bailey. What if PC already likes a lot of them? There are suddenly a lot of DT linemen types, and add Rubin, perhaps CJ Wilson this week. Will Nate Isles get a shot? At WR, how can we not expect Matthews and Norwood to compete for major reps. Doug McNeil can play,too.
In some my mocks, I have them taking three or more receivers. But how realistic is that?
First, we don’t need depth at receiver and DL. We need contributors. Realistically we need starters at WR and rotation guys at DL. Matthews and Norwood are ideally backups who have to earn playing time. Counting on them for anything, even making the team, isn’t ideal, especially with Matthews.
Second, what depth? You are right, Matthews and Norwood should compete for reps. Key word there is compete. Right now, they get major reps by default. Because the alternative is a street FA. Right now we have Baldwin, Norwood (coming off injury), Matthews (hasn’t done anything outside the SB), Kearse (decent but flawed receiver) and Lockette (doesn’t provide much, if anything, as a WR). Beyond that its street FA land. Looks like one guy and a bunch of question marks to me.
On DL, for the interior we have Hill and Marsh on the inside pass rush which is decent if they come back from injury. We also have the new guy Rubin as run-stuffing depth. But who do we have on the edge?
In our Super Bowl champion year, what helped our defense take the next step was having three legit rushers – Bennett, Avril and Clemons. Once Clemons got his feet back, in the playoffs you could really see the difference. If we could add that third guy at 63 it’d be mighty tempting.
It is difficult for me to see Marsh playing on the inside at 254 pounds. I think he is strictly an outside rush guy with some toughness.
Could be mistaken but I thought he added weight when we drafted him? At UCLA he played at up to 305.
What depth is there at WR? To me it looks as barren today as it did when the season ended. There’s still no true #1 or #2 WR on this team.
I think Matthews, Norwood, and possibly McNeil are capable. Matthews and McNeil do have experience. Norwood is, in my opinion, as good as the rookies in the high rounds. And then there is PRich. Does he get a roster spot reserved for him until he comes back? I agree, there may not be a #1 on the roster at the moment (although we may be surprised), but there are #2s and #3s.
My personal preference is that they remake the entire WR corps as if from scratch: 2-3 rookie playmakers start. But is that how JSPC see it?
DL. We need edge rushers and LEO for sure. But there is a lot of reserve DT—Staten, Renfrow, Warmsley, Rubin, J.Williams, Marsh and now Rubin. Possibly even CJ Wilson.
That’s a good point. I’d love to see Matthews step up and be a #2 guy. There’s this little problem of Kearse being ahead of him on the dev ladder that I’m not sure he’d be able to circumvent regardless of how good a camp he has. I suppose it’s always possible. Same with Norwood, I’d love to see him step into their 3 wide sets more often and I hope he gets that chance. But Kearse does present that obstacle that will just make it much more challenging to do so.
I think any WR they draft wouldn’t really have much opportunity to step in right away either. Unfortunately the team just isn’t in position to get a guy that can step into that #1 role. We’ll have to go into the season once again without one and hope that someone emerges from the fray. This being Kearse’s last year will help, but only after this year.
I see Baldwin as a #3 and Kearse and Lockette as very marginal. It’s too bad about Richardson and I just haven’t seen enough of Norwood to say anything about his game. We have space for a new #1 and #2 WR. In the best of all worlds, Matthews keeps on doing what he did in the Superbowl and we look for #1. I’d like to see us flip a mediocre WR group into one of the best and most efficient (gotta be efficient with our run/pass ratio) in the league. Imagine the difference in games from the current scenario (we stay close and the defense closes out the 4th quarter or we come from behind to win in the 4th) to one in which we take an early and commanding lead by moving the sticks and scoring TD’s in the red zone!
Baldwin does his best work out of the slot and the team is comfortable using him there the most, but he’s still the de facto #1 receiver on this team until someone else proves they’re better.
There’s always one WR the team keeps on the field for offensive snaps that will be running plays or two tight end sets that is the best receiver on the team. Baldwin has played that role.
“Any OL we draft will be immediately trailing Lewis and Bailey in knowing the system and having chemistry with the other guys.”
But that leaves us RAZOR thing if we take some raw offensive lineman in the 5th or 6th round who won’t be anywhere close to ready by the start of the season.
You’ve seen how ravished the offensive line has been with injuries the past few seasons. Why risk going there again by putting 6th round projects as backups to first time starters on the line?
For all we know Bailey’s going to pull a Bowie and show up to camp fat and out of shape. If he does and gets injured, and all we have is 6th round rookie depth behind him then what?
I’d much rather have a 2nd or 3rd round center/guard competing with both Bailey and Lewis for the starting job to push both of them and be someone with 2nd round talent who can step in if either of them can’t go. It would be too a huge a hit to risk injury to either of them because there is zero depth and no vets have been signed. Why go there?
RAZOR thin.
I understand your thinking about needing to take an interior OL early. We obviously need reinforcements up front. Surely JS/PC have their sights set on some top notch OL talent, otherwise our OL personnel wouldn’t look like it presently does. There’s a plan in place rest assured. Does it matter if the linemen JS/PC/TC really like are set to go in the 2nd round or the 7th round? This is a team that has made a living finding late round not only starters, but all pro’s in the latter 3 rounds. Sweezy was quite the project when we took him. He’s turned out pretty well. Just saying there’s no need to panic as we are stocked with mid round picks. We can leave day 2 without taking an OL and be sitting just fine. 2013 we saw Bowie and Bailey play(poorly) a lot, and that season ended alright.
“Does it matter if the linemen JS/PC/TC really like are set to go in the 2nd round or the 7th round?”
I guess it probably won’t matter, we can’t really expect any of them to play very well when thrown in the fire regardless. They’ve never drafted an all pro offensive lineman. The only pro bowler they’ve ever drafted is Okung but he was a top 10 pick. So I don’t really qualify them as having any special ability to unearth elite OLman later in the draft like for other position groups. Ones that can be developed into serviceable players after a few years? Sure. But guys that can have Linsley or Warford caliber All Pro years as a rookie in spite of being drafted in the later rounds? I’ve never been impressed with their talent evaluation along the line enough to think that.
Have to agree with that observation. And while we would love to unearth an elite lineman late, it is not likely, so we will settle someone who can help keep Russell upright, and provide some openings for Marshawn. Picking as late as we do, we will likely find journeyman type players rather than Pro Bowlers, but one intriguing possibility to me is Cedric Ogbuehi from Texas A&M. Before his injury (ACL, I believe) he was a possible top 15 pick, and may take a year to rehabilitate, but the long term possibilities are there.
Realizing that most players do not show what they can do in their rookie year anyway, Ogbuehi would probably not be active at all this season, but could be a gold mine in 2016. It never hurts to have an eye to the future.
So what are you thinking? You wouldn’t think there’s a chance he drop to the 6th or 7th round would he? Is he worth spending a 4th round pick on?
He is if you think he can replace Okung in a year or 2.
Prototypical size/length and athleticism for a LT, could stand to gain some muscle/strength and work on his hand technique – perfect stuff to do during a redshirt year.
Without the ACL he’s a top 20 pick. IMO he’s well worth one of SEA’s 3 R4 picks.
I like this thinking. We have way more draft picks this year than open roster spots (and that doesn’t even count free agents and practice squad players). What better opportunity are we going to have to restock for the future? If we can get Ogbuehi with a 4th round pick, I say go for it. An extra year spent learning the system will only make the eventual transition (at either left or right tackle) smoother.
‘They’ve never drafted an all pro offensive lineman.’
Having elite O-line play is highly overrated IMO. Yes, you need good offensive lineman, but elite? Not sold on that assessment. I know Seattle doesn’t have a great offensive line, and people constantly complain about it, and now they have the chance to upgrade it, and that’s still not good enough?
I know this statement gets thrown out ALOT, but there is validation in it, Very, very few elite offensive lines get to the Superbowl. Leading the league in rushing or being in the top 3 three years in a row, or however many it’s been, would lead me to believe that Seattle’s O-line is underrated and better than most.
Is the game still won in the trenches? IDK. But having pro bowl offensive lineman doesn’t seem to be a worry for a team that’s made back to back Superbowls. In my mind having 3-4 good O-lineman is better than an elite O-line, because then instead of trying to find elite O-lineman and then in turn paying them, you can get a group of guys that are good not great that can do basically the same job.
When a team like Dallas gets to the Superbowl, than maybe I’ll change my stance.
“Very, very few elite offensive lines get to the Superbowl.”
2014 Football Outsiders ranked NE the 2nd best pass protecting line last year. They won the SB.
2013 Denver had the best pass protecting line. They made it to the SB.
2011 Giants were 6th in pass protection, they won the SB.
2009 NO was 4th in pass protection. They won. Indy was 1st, they made it.
That’s 4 of the last 6 Super Bowls where at least one team with a top 6 offensive line made it. I don’t really see how your theory holds up.
Fair points.
Is this the same FO that says Dallas’s line is about equal to Seattle’s, or am I thinking of another site?
Every one of those team listed have pocket passers. How do you qualify what’s an elite O-lineman for a team that wants ‘controlled chaos’ behind the LOS? We don’t have to see eye to eye on this, but I don’t think you have to elite pass blockers when your offense is built around the zone read and scramble packages.
FO had Dallas finishing the year ranked 1st in run blocking and 17th in pass blocking. Seattle finished 4th in run blocking and 24th in pass blocking.
So I’m not sure if finishing 3 spots behind Dallas is what you’re talking about?
“Every one of those teams have pocket passers”
Yeah well just about every team in the league has a pocket passer. Since there are really only two other starters outside Seattle that can be said to be mobile I’m not sure pointing out that they were pocket passers says much. I’d like to see a line closer to what Philly has put together. Too bad they’ve never had a mobile quarterback that can optimally maximize Chip Kelly’s offense. But it’s an athletic line with an All Pro caliber tackle in Peters and guard Evan Mathis that when healthy can move really well.
Yes, Seattle has a good run blocking line. They’re also now having to replace two starters from that line. There will most certainly be a drop off in quality from having to break in a raw center and from the uncertainty of starting Bailey for 16 games. And how can you possibly predict that the line won’t suffer injuries again where the starters won’t be able to go? You gotta expect Okung will miss his customary 2-4 games at least. Then what?
Elite offensive lineman don’t become elite by missing games from injury, and the benefit of finding an elite lineman is they’re able to step in right away and play really well. I’m not talking about after their rookie contracts when they need to be re-signed. I’m talking about seizing the opportunity of the championship window which is right now and next year before 2017 will require at least a minor rebuild with all the contracts coming up and Russ’s contract hitting the cap hard.
As mentioned above, I think the Seahawks could be transitioning to shorter interior OL to make it a bit easier for Russell to see. Lewis isn’t that tall, and Bailey is 6’4″. Looking at the practice squad G/C types, one of them is 6’3″ and another is 6’4″. If this is the case, we could start looking at shorter guys for the interior positions and not rule them out so quickly.
Feels weird calling 6’3″ short though!
This is a good point. But does this thinking also suggest that Russ needs mostly tall receiving targets, and that smurfs would be harder for him to throw to. One or two good ones, fine, but I don’t want to see too many smurfs on the roster.
That’s another good question and brings up another point I’ve been thinking of. When looking for WRs, should we focus on finding WRs who fit Russell’s skill set already (ex. deep throws, redline, etc.) or look for WRs who would be able to help him improve areas that he’s weak (specifically, short throws like a YAC/RAC WR)? It’ll be interesting to see which way they go.
Russell can’t look over any of his linemen-he’s 5’10”. It doesn’t matter if a lineman is 6″8″ or 6’3″ Russell is blinded. He finds his passing lanes and makes due with supreme awareness/preparation. Plus we are in the shot gun an awful lot where height doesn’t really matter.
The defensive lineman can be as tall as they want to be. This whole theory is ridiculous.
Except that defensive linemen need to adjust to offensive linemen for leverage. If a DL guy stands upright, he’s gonna get pancaked by the shorter OL guy. If the DL is bull rushing, he needs to adjust to the OL center of gravity to get any push into the pocket. I remember the Broncos teams of the Elway era. They were great rushing teams with smaller-than-average, very mobile offensive linemen. And Elway was a heck of a mobile quarterback.
He has to find lanes no matter if the linemen are 6’6″ or 6’3″. Take it from a 6’0″ former qb. This is such an exaggerated thing. If anything, taller linemen will help your running backs by hiding them from the line backers.
Climbing the pocket with super tall lineman in front of you can be an issue. But I’d agree that 6’3″ or 6’6″, they’re going to be too tall anyway and he’ll have to shuffle step in the pocket to see around either height anyway.
As you said, he won’t be standing directly behind them, so height isn’t as big of an issue. I’m not trying to say that this will help Russell out immensely, merely pointing out a recent pattern. Carp was 6′ 5″. He’s being replaced (as of now) by Bailey, who is 6′ 3″. Unger was 6′ 5″. The guy they’ve been linked to in free agency, Wisniewski, is 6′ 3″. Patrick Lewis is 6′ 1″. This seems to be a pattern.
Also, don’t forget to take into account the fact that lineman aren’t standing up at their full height when blocking. The low man wins, so being shorter may actually be a bit of advantage for getting underneath the D-Line’s pads.
Correlation does not imply causation.
If a basketball team trades for a couple shorter players it is not because your 5-10 point guard cannot see over the taller players when making a pass or shooting a jump shot.
I think people are missing the point. Forget about the “Russell seeing over the shorter O-line” hypothesis. The fact is that SEA doesn’t seem worried about height in the interior O-line. That means we don’t have to strike prospects like Gallik off the list for height. This is the point I’m trying to make.
The key, as we know, is for Russell to have throwing lanes, and for receivers to get open.
I understand your point arias. I think it’s more of a coincidence at this point that we’ve been getting/targeting “shorter” OLinemen. My guess is that other teams value height more than we do, so there’s more quality OL that are shorter than 6’4″ available. As a zone blocking team we need guys who can get to the second level. You don’t need height to do that. It has nothing to do with Wilson being able to see over the line.
Building and establishing an IDENTITY was the foundation of PC/JS’s build of this team. They drafted guys that would fit the scheme they wanted. Established a DEF, hammered home a running game and found the FRANCHISE QB. Now it is about tweaking.I think finding the OL to complement Russ (shiftier feet) is the big point of emphasis in this draft. I see us taking AT LEAST 2 OL in this draft and 1 of them will be starting.
On a side note, I caught some of the Inaugural Veteran’s Combine and 2 guys that stuck out to me that we should take a look at are Jaamal Anderson (6’6″/278lbs) and Adam Carriker (6’6″/305lbs). Both were 1st rd picks in 2007 (Anderson #8/Carriker #13). Both saw injuries and needed time off to get right physically and mentally. Both bring unique size and are hungry to give it another go…
Well put House. We are set up well in the mid rounds to hit on the OL. A starter and quality depth at OL will be in place once training camp comes around.
Carriker could be a great addition for our DT rotation. Dude still has the athleticism that made him a first rounder and isn’t lacking for strength. I like that Carriker made a point to showcase himself in the shuttle run and BP, which weren’t required at his position. Obviously he’s been working hard and has the spark to make another run at it. He is the one player at the veteran combine that will certainly make an NFL roster. I was interested in Anderson before I saw his 40 time…5.25, or thereabouts. Meaning he has no use rushing from the edge anymore. He could find a role somewhere as a 3-4 DE. I don’t think he’s a player we should target.
Carriker is from Kennewick. Perhaps he wants to come back home. I think at the right price, he would be a good piece for the rotation.
All the 40 times at the vet combine were super slow. Seems to have been an error in the laser system.
Forgot that Carriker is from the NW. Good thought Coug! Hopefully that’s an advantage for us.
Yeah if you compare combine numbers with guys who are two or three years out, they are significantly slower. Doubt they slowed down that much, sans injury.
One thing that bothered me once Unger returned in the playoffs were his snaps when in shotgun formation. To state it politely they were inconsistent, I do not remember any botched snaps, but it was definitely something Wilson needed to be aware of as some were at his feet others to the right and others to the left. Although only a fraction of a second different, this would likely distract him from reading the defense or bring the ball to ready position . I have no doubt Unger brought a lot of other things (leadership, line calls, correct pronunciation of all Hawaiian words :)) to the team, but when snapping out of the gun I was reminded of a young Randy Johnson. As such I tend to over index on snap accuracy when watching any of the prospects Rob has identified, Gallik looks legit in the USC tape.
Rob always look forward to the blog, keep up the excellent work!
Agree about watching snap accuracy. With Unger perhaps it was just a product of the injury off time, because I don’t recall that as a problem earlier.
Gallick has a nice delivery, snappy and almost always chest high. As I said a few days ago, I was concerned about B J Finney’s snaps, which were quick and consistent, but were always about knee high. For me, that low snap lowers the QB’s eyes too much. In the shotgun the QB is not able to see the defense make its initial move (as he can when under center), but must concentrate on the ball and then look up to see the defense and his receivers. If the ball comes to him chest or head high, his eyes are already at a level to change focus and see the situation. Maybe I am making too much of it, as it is a minor issue.
No, I agree…its s game of inches and all those low snaps did seem to hinder Russell’s ability to immediately scan/read defenses especially if there was rapid edge pressure,ie someone blowing by Britt
One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is why there is a separate long snapper. What makes it so difficult that the regular center, who has a zillion snaps under their belt, can’t snap it 5 yards farther down the field?
I don’t understand it either… It’s crazy he gets paid about $900K/yr and thatthat’s is Gresham’s only job
It’s not as simple as that unfortunately.
Having a good long snapper is one of the most overlooked aspects in the game of football. There’s a reason some teams spend 6th and 7th round draft picks on them.
i would suggest it may be because there are four separate snapping motions. The two by the center have the head up while the two by the LS have the head looking between the legs. The motion is different in each case and there is a bit of muscle memory involved so that the long snaps tend to mess up the centers regular snaps. The other issue is that your long snapper needs to run down field to cover the kick.
Once teams committed to taking the center off the field for punt coverage and giving the snapping job to a smaller quicker body, it was a natural progression to giving the LS both of the two handed snaps. The punt and field goal snaps might be better thought of as two handed passes because they must spiral more like the throw a QB makes. The ball comes up off the ground a little before the snapper fires it backwards. The center snaps under center or in shotgun formation are one handed and the ball is not raised off the turf and the head is up.
One guy I’m really starting to like more and more is Georgia Tech C Shaq Mason. This guy seems like the type of player and athlete that Seattle would love. Just a unique player. He’s kind of a freak athlete and physically is different.
His strength jumps off the tape, and he consistently wins with leverage. That’s one of the main aspects of Aaron Donald’s game that makes him so good.
I’m just more and more impressed with him every time I watch his tape. He’s 6’1, 304 pounds, ran a 4.97 & 5.00 40 yard dash, 32′ inch vertical, 9’2 foot broad jump, 4.65 short shuttle, 7.53 3-cone drill, and put up 25 reps on the bench press. Without cross-referencing that with the Cs at the combine, those numbers would appear to be in top tier athletically.
That is good speed for an offensive linemen.
I like Mason a lot. Wonder what his arm length is? Regardless he gets it done on the interior and has C/G versatility. Mid round target for sure.
31 1/8 inch arms at the senior bowl. Which is problematic. But maybe we overlook that for a good center.
Jalen Collins is having surgery to stabilize his foot (stress fracture). He will be ready for training camps, but will this drop his draft stock very much?
I was wondering the same thing. If he’s still there at 63 how do you not take him? Not are biggest need but still a need.
I think the only corners worth consideration at the top would be Peters, Collins, and B.Jones. If Alex Carter is there at #63? Not thrilling, but would think about it. I am frankly more interested in the sleeper CBs lower down.
I just seen bj Daniels tweet “QB period” all the talk of him returning kicks and playing wr I figured meant he was moving away from QB. I had hopes he could be the back up but doubt he would return if he’s the back up. Is he just going to be #3 QB/wild card. You have to wonder if he makes the team if that’s the case. Them putting him on the roster in the playoffs shows they want him around even though he wasn’t active. With tjack unsigned I would think he’s the backup next year but I find the tweet interesting, looked to me like they were going away from him.
TJAX will be re-signed this week. I expect BJ Daniels knows he is destined to be the #3 and just wants to find a way to get on the field. If he was planning on being #2 he would not be allowed to do anything that would risk his health and would be spending all of his time in the film room.
I would agree with that. Tjack has to make a decision soon I would think. If they do sign tjack I’m not sure daniels would make the team unless he can excel at returning or receiver. I’m not sure can.
Is there a limit to how many UDFAs the Hawks can sign? We are finding a lot of good ones down there, and we can be certain that the Hawks scouts have found entire rosters full of them already.
There isn’t a limit on how many UDFA you can sign however there is a bonus money pool that teams are allotted to give out to UDFA’s. I think last year teams got 80,000 total to give out. There is also a roster limit of 90 players total in the offseason
In addition to the bonus money above, the only other limiting factor is the amount of open roster spots. If SEA is at 73 right now and drafts another 11 players, they’ll only be able to sign 6 UDFA to fill the 90 man roster. They can always release guys and sign more UDFA, however.
Anyone have any opinions on taking Kikaha at the bottom of the 2nd, if he’s still there?
That could happen. He seems to have Leo written all over him. He has some unique qualities, is tough, and can finish.
I wonder if Kikaha even gets drafted.
Because of the injuries V12?
Yes. That and the disappointing athleticism he showed. But, I think him and Shane Ray are 2 guys that will fall, but will end up being steals. They’re both hurt it would appear.
I think Kikaha is just one of those guys who will win with sheer force and technique. Might be a better fit in a 3-4 scheme like Pittsburgh. If he falls out of the draft, Kikaha that is, he’ll be one of, if not the, most sought after UDFA.
If you like guys that win with technique, toughness, effort, high motor, play with their hair on fire, IDK if you know of this guy, but check out Michigan St DE/OLB Marcus Rush- 4.68 40 yard dash, 4.22 short shuttle, 6.73 3 cone, 34′ inch vertical jump, 9’9 foot broad jump, 25 reps on the bench press, and I wanna say his 10 yard split was 1.68? He’s a mixture of Cassius Marsh and Teddy Bruschi.
Cheers for the input OBS and V12, appreciated. Will check out Rush 🙂
Kikaha going undrafted is preposterous! Am I missing a major injury or something? He’s not a great athlete but he flat gets after it. With 30+ sacks the last 2 years his production is outstanding! 3-5th round pick worse case scenario. There’s few players who play harder than him. Agree that he’d fit better in a 3-4. 3rd down pass rusher he can succeed at in any system.
He will be drafted and probably before round 3-4 ends. He hd two ACL tears his second and third years, after playing as a true freshman. Since then he had had two excellent seasons. He just has a natural knack for rushing the passer. He’s reminicent of Chad Brown, but not as physically gifted. He should go to a team that runs a 3-4 where he can be a rush linebacker, (I keep thinking Pittsburgh woukd love him, but LeBeau is gone so that’s up in the air.
He reminds me of a worse version of Michael Sam. Who also missed two years with ACL injuries to the same knee.
If he’s healthy, absolutely would love Kikaha. I do think he is arguably the best pure pass rusher in this draft. But that is his strength, the rest of game is not great. On the right team, he would a great situational terror.
I know I am not the only one who wants the Hawks to draft Washington State’s Xavier Cooper. I am intrigued by his athleticism. He appears to have the body type of Jordan Hill but could be more explosive off the snap. He seems very raw but if he is tutored by Michael Bennett the same way Bennett tutored Jordan Hill, I believe he could be a steal. Can anyone estimate where he is projected in the draft?
I think Cooper is a solid 4th round prospect. He’s not a target for us with his short arms though…unfortunately. Like his skills and athleticism an awful lot, but he falls below our measurement standards for a DT(that we’ve shown thus far). I agree that he could be a steal for somebody. Could play some 3-4 DE as well as a pass rushing DT.
I’ve heard anywhere from the second to the fourth. Knock on him is his short arms – and you can see it on tape. More broken tackles than you would like. But in all other respects he is really good.
When asked about the Greg Hardy situation, JS admitted they were interested enough to look into the background, even though they were scared off by it, but the price tag was the deal breaker that allowed them to walk away.
But they were interested. Which tells me that someone like Frank Clark might get a look. There won’t be a big price tag involved there.
My sense is that they were just doing due diligence with Hardy.
On if they had decided whether they would sign Hardy if the price was right: “It was like, you have the background, you are trying to get more and more background on it, the situation itself and then when we found out what his level of compensation was going to be it was pretty easy for us to just walk away from it.’’
That tells me they really hadn’t gotten to finishing the background legwork on him before they learned what sort of price he’d command which made it a no brainer.