Robert Nkemdiche could fall out of the first round
Todd McShay’s mock draft
McShay had the Seahawks taking Andrew Billings in his last projection. This time he goes with Robert Nkemdiche (DT, Ole Miss):
“The Seahawks have shown a willingness to take a chance on risk/reward prospects in the past, and Nkemdiche, who comes with plenty of off-field baggage, certainly fits that bill. Even though his tape is inconsistent, he has top-10 talent, and his combine workout confirmed his rare athletic ability. According to ESPN Stats & Information data, Nkemdiche is just the fifth defensive lineman since 2006 to weigh in at 290-plus pounds, run a sub-5.00 40-yard dash and jump at least 35 inches in the vertical.”
This has become a popular pick within the national media — based on the perception that the Seahawks are willing to take a chance on character flags.
How accurate is that perception?
There’s no doubt they’ve rolled the dice a few times — but they were all calculated gambles:
— Seattle drafted Bruce Irvin with the #15 pick despite perceived character issues. Pete Carroll recruited Irvin from the JUCO ranks and had significant information on him going into the draft.
— The Seahawks traded 1st and 3rd round picks to Minnesota for ‘problem child’ Percy Harvin. Again, Carroll had recruited Harvin during his USC days. Darrell Bevell also coached him during his spell as the Vikings offensive coordinator. It was a risk making the deal — but Seattle clearly had enough background on Harvin to feel good about taking the chance.
— Seattle drafted Frank Clark with a late second round pick in 2015. It became a national talking point due to Clark’s dismissal from Michigan after being arrested for domestic violence. Carroll and John Schneider went to great lengths to explain their decision and the study they’d made into the case. Whether you agree with the decision or not — they didn’t walk into that pick with any kind of ignorance.
Harvin flamed out — but Irvin hasn’t had any issues during his pro career and at the combine Carroll praised Clark as “a great kid in the program”.
Aside from the trio above, the Seahawks have taken very few character risks with their picks in the first three rounds:
2010 — Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate
2011 — James Carpenter, John Moffitt
2012 — Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson
2013 — Christine Michael, Jordan Hill
2014 — Paul Richardson, Justin Britt
2015 — Jimmy Graham, Frank Clark, Tyler Lockett
Of the 15 above there are more players with celebrated high character or zero flags than there are risks.
Nkemdiche’s issues are well publicised. Draft Insider Tony Pauline had this to say in a recent podcast:
“Lot of off the field issues that could really push him out of the first round. You look at him physically and you see a guy that should really be a top-15 pick… The fall out of the window is just the tip of the iceberg from what I’m hearing. There are some significant off the field issues and maybe they’ll make their way to the press but it’s definitely going to hurt his draft stock.”
This doesn’t feel like a calculated gamble — it’s a pure risk move. Unlike Clark there doesn’t appear to be one significant incident to research. It’s an entire character profile. If Nkemdiche’s bizarre press conference at the combine was an indicator — it’s hard to imagine he impressed Seattle’s top brass if they met.
I understand why many people want to pair the Seahawks with Nkemdiche. From the outside it would be easy to assume they’re a team intent on taking major risks. The reality is a little bit different and it’d probably be a shock if they drafted Nkemdiche at #26 with the stakes so high.
In round two you maybe start to consider the upside. The thing is, 32 other teams will be having the exact same thought.
The following players were available in McShay’s mock that were off the board in our projection yesterday:
Paxton Lynch (QB, Memphis)
Jason Spriggs (T, Indiana)
Reggie Ragland (LB, Alabama)
Corey Coleman (WR, Baylor)
Derrick Henry (RB, Alabama)
Andrew Billings (DT, Baylor)
Keanu Neal (S, Florida)
Daniel Jeremiah’s latest mock draft
Just like Jeremiah’s previous mock, the Seahawks take Alabama defensive tackle A’Shawn Robinson:
“Robinson is one the top interior defenders in the draft and he would fit perfectly in Seattle.”
You could easily be forgiven for wondering what all the hype is about with Robinson. He had marginal production in college (3.5 sacks in 2015, 2.5 of which came in one game). Too often he was content to be blocked and hold position. He doesn’t get into the backfield and create splash plays.
The general feeling was Robinson is a unique athlete and his best football is still to come. He certainly carries 307lbs very well — there’s very little bad weight on his 6-3-and-a-half frame and he has 34.5 inch arms.
At the combine however he had a pretty average performance — comparable to guys like Ricky-Jean Francois rather than Marcell Dareus. He ran a 5.20 in the forty (1.79 split), managed only 26 inches in the vertical and an average 8-10 broad jump. Alabama team mate D.J. Pettway had a better three-cone. Jihad Ward’s three cone smashed Robinson’s (7.38 vs 7.80).
Compare that performance to Dareus’ in 2011. He was heavier (319lbs) and ran a 4.93 with a 1.68 split. His broad, vertical and three-cone were similar — but it’s that initial quickness at 319lbs that separates the pair.
Robinson might be little more than a disciplined run-stopper who is tough to move off the spot. And that’s fine — but it’s not often a player with this skill-set and athletic profile is taken early. The Seahawks have looked for freakish traits in round one. Robinson falls short in that sense.
The following players were available in Jeremiah’s mock that were off the board in our projection yesterday:
Jason Spriggs (T, Indiana)
Derrick Henry (RB, Alabama)
Andrew Billings (DT, Baylor)
Keanu Neal (S, Florida)
Germain Ifedi’s athleticism
In our mock draft yesterday I paired the Seahawks with Ifedi at #26. Jeremiah has him going to Carolina at #30 — McShay doesn’t include him in the first round.
Jeremiah talked more about Ifedi here.
“I think he can play tackle. I know that there’s some debate, some belief that he can kick inside and be better at guard. But guys to me he is what you want your tackle to look like. He can bend. To me the awareness is an issue and that’s something he’s going to have to learn and develop but man all of the tools are there for him to maybe even jump up — maybe sneak into the bottom of the first round. He’s right on that edge.”
Charles Davis followed up by mentioning Duane Brown. Jeremiah agreed with the comparison and suggested he’d be a “solid starting right tackle right away”.
Funnily enough Brown was the #26 pick in 2008. He’s a different body type to Ifedi (at the combine he was 6-4, 315lbs and ran quicker but wasn’t as explosive in the vertical jump). Brown also had 33 inch arms not 36 inches. He still had a very good career in Houston as a late first round tackle pick.
If you’re wondering about Ifedi’s athletic upside (and there’s no reason to after a 32.5 inch vertical at 324lbs) — here he is in the mirror drill at the combine going up against future #1 overall pick Laremy Tunsil:
The athletic potential of Germain Ifedi, combined with the size and length he possesses, makes him a very intriguing option for the Seahawks at #26.
The Mock Draftable database says his best comparison physically is Kelechi Osemele — a player that probably costs you $10m APY on the open market.
It’ll be no reach if they do select him in round one. For more on Ifedi, check out this review I put together back in December.
So tired of reading national pundits’ mocks that claim a particular prospect is a ‘perfect fit’ for SEA, without regard to team needs or draft history. Such lazy, lazy analysis.
SEA won’t ever draft a player like Nkemdiche, not because he has ‘off-field’ concerns, but because he isn’t pissed of for greatness, let alone mediocrity. He’s a boom athlete with a bust personality.
Interesting perspective from 3000 NFL Mock Draft guest Dan Hatman:
@Dan_Hatman: You can extract more from A.Robinson if you shift him from read/react player to an attack/react player where he can get upfield with purpose
I was thinking the same thing – seahawks want guys that are passionate about the game, not guys that take plays off.
CAR interviewed Ifedi at the Combine.
SEA interviewed Le’Raven Clark.
I just posted that on the last thread. We’re always doing that.
If people are salty over Ifedfi, imagine how they’ll feel about Clark.
Apparently it was an in depth interview.
Positively apoplectic!
The more I hear about Ifedi the more satisfied I would be with us picking him. Seems like exactly what we would be looking for right now.
Ifedi, Clark, Spriggs, Ogbah, Lawson, Neal, Decker, Conklin, Coleman. Those are the guys I think they’ll target in the 1st.
Unlikely that Decker, Conklin, and maybe Spriggs will be there, but still.
And if I narrow it down, it’s Ifedi, Clark, Ogbah, Lawson, Coleman. In that order.
V12, why Ogbah but not Tapper?
You know how much I love Tapper. So yeah, include him too. I just don’t know if he’s improved his stock into the 1st.
Why Ogbah over Tapper? More quick twitch. More of a natural. Better ankle flexion.
“And if I narrow it down, it’s Ifedi, Clark, Ogbah, Lawson, Coleman. In that order.”
Clark over Coleman?
Right now, yes. Let’s see what Coleman does at his pro day, and his medical eval.
Cool. To me Coleman would have to completely bomb his pro day to fall below Clark. Talking 5.3 40. 4.9 SS. 7.9 3C. 26″ VJ. 8’5″ BJ. He should test better than all of these low athletic baselines. Coleman’s tape is superior to Clark, and has more than enough length-35 1/8″ arms.
Yeah- I agree that his tape is better and he’s better overall.
Keep in mind though that the older prospects did not test as well as the younger guys. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Coleman doesn’t have a great pro day.
I do think that Clark has a bit more upside.
I hope he “bombs” his pro day. Tape and production is all I need to see, perfectly happy to see him fly under the radar. Why give other teams an incentive to bid him up?
Bu aren’t you glossing over the fact that Clark has almost no tape that he is capable of playing at an NFL level. Regardless of measurables. He still has to play football. I think it’s hasty to assume Clark’s measurables will outweigh Coleman’s production
Clark was productive.
I like Coleman. He’s one of the guys I could see them targeting.
He does have tape I like. Not a perfect or flawless prospect, but that’s the type of guy you get at 26. A 2nd round talent. Ecspecially in a class so devoid of offensive talent.
As for Shon Coleman. Let’s see how he checks out medically.
Agree. Clark has the size/athleticism/potential, just needs some serious schooling.
It takes grit and overcoming failure to get better and reach your potential. Does Clark have grit? THAT’S what the Hawks were gauging when they interviewed him. Also, it is the season of the smoke screen…..
I think their interest is legit, just wondering what round. I think Ifedi is the safer pick, but Clark might prove better.
I agree miles, sometimes a player grows on you the more you think about it. The problem is if he is taken to play RT and Gilliam moves to left and we don’t resign Sweezy the line is basically having new starters everywhere. That could be good could be 2015 all over again.
The O-line is gonna have growing pains no matter what next season. It’s inevitable.
Unless we keep Okung and Sweezy. That will make it a lot easier.
Fans really really REALLY need to understand what happened in 2015, so here let me break it down:
We moved the worst RT to a new position (LG) in Britt, we did this with two weeks left before week 1 of the season. We moved a TE-to-OT convert (learning LT) to RT with two weeks left before week 1 of the season. We started Nowak at Center, a guy clearly not ready and lacking in the experience/knowledge/technique to start at Center in the NFL.
As a unit, they had TWO WEEKS to build cohesion.
——————————————-
Okay now compare that to what can happen this off-season; we can draft a RT, move Gilliam to LT (where he was originally developing for), have Glow compete for RG with someone, and have a draft pick (Dahl? Glasgow? McGovern?) compete with Lewis at Center.
This competition can last a bit in camp (few weeks, 2 maybe?) but then we should learn from last season and as early as possible lock the starters in. Announce the 5 starting O-linemen, and get them working together as a unit for weeks and weeks and weeks + all 4 preseason games.
So while Glow at RG would be new, the LG vet (I hope) we get would be new, the LT would be new-ish, the RT new, the C potentially new…they aren’t players who have never played at that position before, they aren’t players with just 2 weeks of time as a unit to practice before Game 1 of the season…and best of all their talent levels should be higher than Lewis/Britt/Sweezy.
Exactly.
‘Cohesion’ is not ‘continuity.’
Great point Nathan, more eloquently worded then I could have done. I was ready to move on from sweezy and Britt a couple years ago, I’m always thinking we need to improve the oline, man I hope we get some talent in the interior ol.
I’m surprised this hasn’t received more discussion and I’m glad you brought it up. I was concerned last pre-season how we kept shuffling guys in and out…but ultimately I thought “hey they’re the experts…what do I know”. I know they were looking for the right combo (which is a bit worrisome they didn’t even know what that combo would be), but the musical chairs lasted way too long, especially with young pups who really needed reps.
Like all of you, I hope there is a talent infusion…but I also REALLY hope they settle on their guys early and let them go to work
If they draft the right guys who have actually played the positions they are intended for – then it should be an easy decision regarding who will fill each spot. Last years line was a mess until midseason, the year before wasn’t that much better. So I’m fine with them replacing 2-3 players, if they get the right ones the improvement will be noticeable much sooner.
I just want to stop goofing around at center and get a guy who can be here for 10 years.
Me too. I think we need a leader in that position…and someone who can form a bond with Russell
Natan,
The first half of your comment is spot on. The changes made just 2 weeks before the season had crucial effect on the way the OL started the year. I thought you were going to make it all about players needing time to get used to playing their position in the NFL and the line as unit needing time to gel together.
But, you actually used it to downplay the risks of rebuilding a new offensive line this year if we only decide on the personal ahead of time. It was met with great joy by all those who believe that the instant remedy for our OL comes from a multitude of new players.
I am not one of them.
Your proposed ideal new line will be populated by 5 players that has never played for us in their position. It will include 2 rookies at C and RT, our RT playing LT, a vet at LG and Glow, after his outstanding 1 game against a team that could not care less at RG.
IMO – this line, even if it’s decided before training camp starts, will suffer as much abuse as the line we had in 2015. Most OL rookies, even top 10 picks, suffer abuse during their rookie year. The shift from college to NFL competition is just overwhelming. For every Bitonio there are 10 Matthews, Robinson and Joackles. Next year we are scheduled to meet some of the toughest DLs in the NFL – RAMs x 2, ARI x 2, BUF, MIA, NYJ, CAR. The things that Donald, Wilkerson, Short, Sue and Camble will do to a rookie C, a novice RG and a rookie RT are the stuff you see in horror films.
Continuity is not Cohesion or consistency. Continuity is an old and tested method to produce cohesion and consistency. Having played a position in the NFL before helps. Playing in the NFL before at another position also helps. Guys playing together in the NFL, knowing what they can expect from each other and how to work as unit to overcome individual adversity works best.
A line that has already formed an identity together will easily absorb a new vet. It will even accept a rookie and help him as he struggles to adopt to NFL level of play. A line that does not have a single player playing at a position he played the year before is roadkill.
I hope that your message about deciding on the personal early and working that line together for as long as possible will be heard. I hope that your plan for the people on that line will be ignored.
Sorry, that is my view on the subject. I know it’s a minority opinion but this line can not have more than 1 new rookie and maybe one more vet.
I’m right there with all of this some level. I’m also a little concerned about how certain inputs are used in assessments. Why is it that all the good stuff the offense does (rushing numbers, inconsistent but sometimes very good efficiency) is proof that the offensive coaches and system are working, but not much of a good sign that the OL personnel has something to work with? Especially taking into consideration the lack of even a chance to build cohesion. Why is it that struggles in pass-pro are absolute proof that each of the players on the interior is a lost cause, but not even a small strike against Cable or his methods?
We acknowledge that O-liners are coming in needing more development than before and have less opportunity to get it outside of game action, then decide in a year or two that they have no chance. I seems to me that we have a false grass-is-greener view about both the state of OL around the league and the ease of quickly improving it with rookies.
What it really really comes down to, is if we lock the guys we got in this year for the sake of “continuity” and “cohesion” then we are locking into them long term, because it is dumb to lock into them for that reason then replace them in ’17.
So that leaves us with Britt at LG long term, HORRIBLE idea, that leaves us with Lewis at C, at best he is “solid” as Pete describes him. And Pete has already said the Soko project is in full effect, with plans for him to compete at Center in 2017 with a shot to win. Then there is Sweezy…i mean, what is the point of keeping him if the 4th rounder behind him looks ready to go?
I would rather endure a first 6 games similar (but not AS bad) to what we saw in ’15 as long as the talent on the line that we are long term locking into (franchise OT’s, franchise RG, franchise C, vet LG for a season or two).
Before we lock into a O-line long term in chase of cohesion and continuity I want the talent level to not be average and far below average.
(Give me Gilliam-Vet-Dahl-Glow-Ifedi) and almost all of the preseason work with them locked as the starters, months of them working as a group (instead of 2 weeks like last season) and I think we will do better than we saw in 2015.
Even if we don’t, the talent level should be much higher on the line than it was in 2015.
Any starting O-line with Britt on it is a crime.
Good arguments.
How about Signing Okung for 4 years 40M with a first year cap hit of 7M, drafting Ifedi or Coleman to replace Britt, Leaving Lewis and Gillian in place and getting a vet to replace Sweezy if he us too expensive?
You keep your solid Center and two good tackles in place, that is always a good start. If Ifedi/Coleman is good enough to start at tackle, he will hopefully survive at LG. A vet will not disrupt RG and you have a solid line from day 1.
Draft your next C in the 3rd round to replace Lewis next year once he becomes UFA.
Do it step by step….
Or, draft your future RG in the 3rd and let Soko replace Lewis next year.
That’s a massive outlay on Okung. If they were giving him that type of money he would’ve been signed a year ago.
Rob: You got me sold on Ifedi. I am a little concerned about having Gilliam play Left Tackle.
Also concerned about past TAMU tackles as well. Haven’t faired so good.
Not really a fair criticism to levy on him don’t you think?
Gilliam’s calling card is dealing with the speed rush — he’s very good at it. If he can get stronger (and there’s no reason why he can’t) he could be exceptional. He is only a one year starter after all.
Footwork was superb. Never got too wide — which opens liability to the bull rush. Quick feet, anchoring with the inside foot and sliding the outside foot cleanly.
Bend was ok. Not Okung great. But Okung was a top 10 pick for a reason.
On Nkemdiche:
Have to wonder if he doesn’t slide massively down the board as the draft unfolds. Let’s say we’re sitting there at 56 and he is still on the board. Is he a guy that you consider at that point?
Flags aside, his tape isn’t as great as his athletic ability would assume. Production was very modest. The most consistent aspect/gift he shows is he does have a wonderful burst on the snap. He gets upfield and into the gap ridiculously fast.
If we take an OL in Round 1 and he’s available in Round 2 I would take him in one second.
Risk aside, the upside there is too tremendous to pass up. What is the draft for? It’s about getting players who have the potential to play well. Even with the difficult past, I’d take him and accept the risk because he could make our DLine one of the best in the NFL. If in two picks we are able to help solidify our OLine and also become one of the defensive bullies of the NFL again, that’s wildly successful.
If the problem with Nkemdiche was just his ‘difficult past’ then yes. But that’s not his problem. His problem is he’s the DL version of Johnny Manziel.
Dude, we did it again!
Ha!
Cool that you said the same thing at the same time but I wouldn’t compare getting drunk and falling out of the window with Manziel’s record. Nkemdiche doesn’t have multiple D.V.’s or even one, he doesn’t go to Vegas in disguise and he might not party like that every weekend. He only fell out of the window once. It’s been blown way out of proportion.
It has nothing to do with him smoking spice and falling out of a window.
Doesn’t strike me as a try hard kind of guy that PC/JS like.
Exactly. I can look past the stupid idiotic bizarre off-field stuff, if his on-field play showed high effect. Michael Irving was a train wreck off the field in Dallas, but was an absolute warrior on the field who throve the game of football. I see no warrior in Nkemdiche. No evidence of love for the game. I wouldn’t take him in R2 or R3.
“He only fell out of the window once. It’s been blown way out of proportion.”
See Tony Pauline’s quote. “Falling out of the window was the tip of the iceberg.” This likely isn’t an isolated incident.
I’m skeptical of the fire-means-smoke thing. Sounds like teams trying to scare other teams away from their guys sometimes.
If it really was part of a troubling pattern, I doubt they make such a big deal out of that press conference.
Tony Pauline is a legit insider. When he speaks we should listen. And he isn’t the only saying it (just like with Randy Gregory a year ago).
That’s why I would not take him with the 1st rounder. But with the second rounder, it wouldn’t kill us if he didn’t work out. He may be unfixable, but if we feel like we have the coaching staff to turn him into a terror on the DLine, I have zero hesitations in the second round.
To me it’s more like if you want the guy you go get him he definitely is worth the pick! He’s gonna be a monster!
It’s not his past that’s a concern. It’s his attitude. Not taking responsibility, the priveleged upbringing. He might be the defensive version of Johnny Manziel.
No denying the talent and upside though.
How bad does he want it? Or is perfectlty content just being ‘a guy,’ and not ‘THE guy?’
We’re synced up today my man.
I think for sure we’d give him a thought in the second and maybe even the first. To me his play on the field is a bigger strike than the off-the-field stuff. But like you say maybe they both come from the same place.
I haven’t seen the interview but his responses don’t sound that terrible. He fell out of the window, and they knew that before the interview. I’m glad he didn’t do that sober. Then he scripted his answers because he wanted to get them right. If he can get to the qb this won’t matter in the eat and I don’t think it does anyway. If anything if gives us a chance to swing on a guy who wouldn’t be there if he was better at interviews.
Th bigger question is, can he play? It’s been well-documented on this blog, how rare a penetrating 3 tech is. At the end of R1? Easily.
His presser raised more concerns than it alleviated. Here’s a SI article:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/26/robert-nkemdiche-nfl-combine-press-conference
One key quote:
“And lastly, in another potentially troubling acknowledgment for NFL personnel evaluators, Nkemdiche admitted his lack of consistent effort in college wasn’t a figment of anyone’s imagination. ‘There are times I didn’t finish. I was lazy on some plays,’ he said. How his tendency to take plays off improves once the NFL starts paying him big money, no one can possibly know.”
I just can’t see SEA drafting a guy with this kind of attitude.
I hear you but he was just admitting something that scouts will already have seen. Kawaan Short took some plays off in college too.
I fully understand your point CHawk, and agree that Nkemdiche doesn’t seem to pass the character test. Many DL NCAA DLinemen play every down, or close to it-Nkemdiche included. Going into a rotation makes it easier to go all out on every down. You don’t have to pace yourself to play 25 downs, as opposed to 60 downs.
They drafted Tharold Simon who was one of the players called out by the LSU strength coach for missing workouts and lacking motivation/discipline and who was also arrested the day before the draft.
As well as spencer ware. Look at him now.
The quote above saying there are lots of other issues that haven’t become public is a factor too. Knock on wood but if there is something DV-related, that’s when teams will turn away definitively.
How likely is it that he is more or less another Marshawn Lynch? “Spends some time with trouble but is not married to it” was a line from his scouting report.
I know people will scoff at that assessment, but I just wonder if this idea that he is a strange character is more along the lines of someone who is different but not necessarily a negative presence.
That’s the feeling I get Miles and if he can rush the qb nobody will care.
He does look more like a Christine Michael than a Marshawn Lynch, at this point.
Here is the video of his actual interview, if anyone would actually like to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXZBSDtMI0w
I honestly don’t see anything that really shocks me about what he says. He showed honesty and admitted what he did. He also admitted that he gave up on some plays in college and that he’s working on it to get better. The only thing that made me cringe was when he said the hotel room was under his name and that “Nobody wanted to take the fall for it,” so the blame went on him since his name was on the receipt. That pretty much sounds like he’s saying, “It was kind of my fault, but not really, so whatever.”
It’s clear he gave up on the field on tape. I think it would be more of a red flag if he denied giving up on plays.
Other than that I think the interview sort of got blown out of proportion.
Hard to believe that’s the infamous interview. He sounds like a nice guy. Straight forward answers, took responsibility for what happened. Maybe a bit more laid back than you’d want.
Didn’t make it to “taing the fall” part but I watched five minutes and he sounded totally normal, didn’t sound like Ted Kazynski or Paul Bearer. You might even call it a “good interview.”
I agree. I didn’t quite get what people were so blown away by. Sounded like he admitted his shortcomings and faults.
And frankly, I bet a lot of guys take plays off, especially the big guys. If not, why would we rave about anybody having a “non-stop motor?” If guys didn’t go halfway on a few snaps here and there, wouldn’t *everybody* have a non-stop motor, so nobody would be singled out?
Yep everyone has their drawbacks but few guys will admit them. It sounded to me like he was recognizing something he needs to do better at.
He took plays off because they put him at d end and that wasn’t his position I don’t blame him the Hawks will pretty exclusively play him at DT be a use he isn’t half of Michael Bennett or Avril on the edge.
At #56 I think you take him. But I think he goes in the middle of R2.
Agreed!
Alex Mack just voided his contract.
I had a couple thoughts about the compensatory picks. Here’s the hypothetical: If Okung and Irvin sign elsewhere for 8-10, Lane for 6-7, Mebane and Rubin for 4 each, that would give us 2 thirds, a fourth and a fifth/sixth? Now if we signed Mack or Osemele for 6-7, we would then get 2 thirds and 2 fifth/sixths?
If this happened if would happen before the draft and I wonder if we’d start thinking about trading next year’s picks for this year’s for the right opportunities. Only so many guys can make the roster in a given year. Next year the compensatory picks will be tradable, FWIW.
I believe Okung and Irvin we need to sign each for over $10m to get thirds. But if that were the case, signing Osemele for $8m would let us keep the thirds, I believe.
I would caution against projecting round comps to APY values at this point.
This value fluctuates a lot. I think this year is going to have a lot of really bloated APY values. Maybe not the Revis level contracts. But I see a lot of 8 figure deals possible.
9m may be 4th round comp next year.
We’ll know by mid March. That’s when the big deals will have sorted out.
Well the exact values are tough to call no doubt but the upshot is, we might have a lot of extra picks next year, and they’re all gonna be tradable.
No question.
Seattle is going to come away with comp picks. And probably be one of the better collection of them to boot.
Not sure if they’ll get four. It’s entirely possible though. I think the fourth comes down to if Kearse leaves and for how much. I don’t see them adding a guy that factors into the comp pick equation — simply due to the nature of cash reserves they’ll have available to commit. I expect at most 3-4m available which basically means street FA.
Yeah, a 155 mil cap is going to push salaries up….
Mack isn’t a cap casualty, as he opted out of his contract. He factors as a UFA against getting potential comp picks. franks-In your scenario Mack would likely void a 3rd round comp pick, as he’d command top dollar.
I see the Hawks having major interest in Mack, but not having the cap space to sign him.
I think it’s highly unlikely we sign him.
1. Money
2. Loss of comp pick
3. Great options in R3/R4 in the draft
These factors really lead me to think we’re going to add via the draft. Lewis maybe stays as a bridge guy at worst, or ends up getting beat out by a quality rookie. Either way adding Mack means not resigning a UFA we’d otherwise be signing, as well as lose a 3rd round pick in order to get him.
Doesn’t make sense given the UFA/Draft landscape this year.
I think signing 2 average guards would be better use of our money. Mack would be a big upgrade over Lewis, but at likely $10 million per year and the loss of a comp pick. On the other hand, 2 average guards would be big upgrades over Britt and Sweezy, and would cost much less overall.
I’m 100% on board with Ifedi, and I’m usually reluctant to go after late 1st OL.
As mentioned, his athletic potential/size is rare, rare, rare. I think on pure athleticism alone, he can be a league average OL. Develop him and I think you have the chance at a top 5 OT.
My hope is:
R1: Ifedi
R2: Tapper
R3: Feeney
R3: Dixon
This draft has a lot of quality prospects expected to be available in the late 1st. I would expect at least three guys on the board that we could consider.
It’s been so long since we’ve had this opportunity.
Totally agree. I don’t think we have to force anything.
If anything…the choice could be very difficult. I’m still not discounting someone like Corey Coleman, who has the type of athletic ability they covet, as a wild card.
That would be a nice haul for the first 2 days of the draft!
MJ: You must have READ my mind. If the Hawks got Ifedi, Tapper and Feeney that would AWESOME.
3 impact players IMO. All 3 could become core players down the line, IMO.
I must not be watching the right Tapper tape. Against ISU, even with 2 sacks, I was thoroughly unimpressed.
If he gets two-sacks a game for the Seahawks and isn’t impressive — we’ll be delighted.
If there was anything from that game that gave me the impression that he would be much of an NFL rusher at all, that would mean something. If he had gotten 2 sacks in every game in college, there’s no doubt much of it would have required very impressive play, but he didn’t come close to that and even the sacks in that game didn’t show to me anything that said he would be able to do much at the next level. If Carl Nassib’s full-season production isn’t proof that he is a great prospect for the next level, then another guy’s single 2-sack game against Iowa State can’t be used as such.
I know you’re not anywhere near being a lazy analyst (that’s me), but your argument here is a lazy one (or in your case, probably rushed because of the sheer volume and depth of your involvement in this blog and its discussion community). I like Tapper’s athletic potential and feel he’s got a good chance to be better with more inside play, but a better response maybe would have been to suggest a game or 2 that showed more impressive performance rather then just production.
Rob, you mocked the Hawks taking Ifedi straight up over Shon Coleman. This deserves some discussion.
As for taking Travis Feeney with rd. 2, perhaps, but why wouldn’t that pick go to interior o-line?
Ifedi is younger and more athletic than Coleman, and without medical concerns.
Feeney is rising very rapidly, and he’s one of the very few prospects who might be able to replace Irvin. Here’s an article about his post-Combine ascension:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2620495-travis-feeneys-draft-stock-rising-fast-after-blowing-up-nfl-combine
Also, there should be decent interior OL options in the mid rounds.
Yup.
Dahl, McGovern, Glasgow should all be available in the 3rd, as an example of interior O-line prospects later on.
But the issue is can he play football? I understand that everybody here values Rob’s opinion and I do too. But nobody was talking about Ifedi until the combine. And I think with good reason. His measureables are okay, but were is the production. He gets pushed around on tape. And I think everyone here should really focus on Carroll’s words about getting tougher up front. To me I think this all being a bit of a prisoner of the combine, and we should be looking hard at players that resemble Giacomini. Just my take. But I am not in support of Ifedi or Clark in the first. High upside in the first round only when coupled with production.
There’s been plenty of articles and discussions on Ifedi before the combine.
“But nobody was talking about Ifedi until the combine.”
LINK: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/germain-ifedi-to-enter-2016-draft-some-thoughts
Quote from the piece: “If the Seahawks make the playoffs and you’re pinning your hopes on an offensive tackle being available beyond the 21st pick — this could be your best bet.”
“As for taking Travis Feeney with rd. 2, perhaps, but why wouldn’t that pick go to interior o-line?”
Couple reasons:
1. Lack of later round LB options. Seattle is going to want both an interior OL and a LB. They won’t go interior OL if they feel they won’t have a shot at getting a LB that fits our standard.
2. Depth of talent. The drop off between a top interior R2 guy and a plan B guy in R3 is not that enormous. It really would depend on who slips to 56 at that point. Whomever is on the board has to be so much better than those expected to be around at 90 that we can’t NOT draft him. Maybe if Kelly somehow beyond expectation drops. Martin maybe as well. I think Kelly is on a different level to Martin. But I could see Martin being regarded similarly.
There are reasons you intentionally go with a plan B guy. Seattle does that quite frequently.
Everyone list Coleman injury a s a have to wait and see before drafting him, if that true how would you ever considered feeney in the secont? I’m a UW fan and love feeney but his injury history is considered chronic and it’s not like it a freak injury. It’s the same injury repeated over and over again. I’d take Coleman over ifedi based on tape because ifedi does get pushed around a little bit and you don’t see that fire.
I would take Coleman much higher than Ifedi. Does that mean anything? Well no of course not but we already have a couple project guys with good toolsets, we need guys that can do it now. Ifedi doesn’t do what Coleman does and you’d have to be a gambler to think he will later. Sokoli in the bottom end was a much lower cost than Ifedi would be.
Googled Sokoli’s pro day, it came up before his combine:
40-Yard Dash 4.84s
Vertical Jump 38″
Broad Jump 9’11”
Short Shuttle 4.36s
3-Cone Drill 7.25s
225-Pound Bench Press 31 Reps
Outjumped Ifedi and we got him at the end of R6. Really should have been in round 7, that pick.
1. I like Coleman — but Ifedi is a freak of nature. The type the Seahawks pick.
2. Because they need a defensive playmaker/pass rusher and there are plenty of interior OL options likely to be available in rounds 3-7.
I don’t like the idea of taking Feeney in round 2 at all. People need to let the post combine hype wear off a little bit. I think his injury history and tweener status make him a day 3 sort of player. Hard to wrap up ball carriers with two bad shoulders. He also looks more like a WILL than a SAM, so instead of replacing what Irvin does he could actually bump KJ from his best position over to play SAM.
His athleticism is exciting, but not for the cost of a 2nd round pick.
Is Feeney the next Bosworth? Perhaps….
Or maybe he’s the next Gronk? Chronic injuries (back, in Gronk’s case) and brilliant in the NFL.
How many back surgeries did gtonk have in college?
I agree, as an avid Husky fan his game tape isn’t the best. In very basic terms, he’s great if no one is there to block him and he’s allowed to run in a straight line to the ball carrier.
Does Feeney ever lay the lumber on a dude? Let’s not forget about one of the core components of Pete Carroll’s philosophy: “Out hit the opponent on all plays”
I don’t think there will ever be another Bosworth. He basically tricked the whole NFL into thinking he was worth a first overall pick and the Seahawks were unlucky enough to have the first overall pick. So they drafted him and then afterward found out he had a chronic injury and had to retire. He just wanted to cash in and get out.
There will never be another scenario like that again.
Supplemental draft… Didn’t really use the #1 overall pick on him.
It’s really hard for me to get behind any interior D-line pick, and only a few edge rushers look promising. On the other hand, it wouldn’t take much to convince me on one of these tackles that should be available.
With everything we’ve been hearing about Nkemdiche, I really doubt he goes in the 1st. Rob, forgive me if you’ve answered this or have written about him on the blog before, but what is your analysis/view on Nkemdiche the player? Can he rush the passer? 6 sacks in 29 games doesn’t help his case
I kind of look at ifedi the same way, great size and athleticism but the tape doesn’t show it translating
Why? This is like the one good year for tackle depth if the Hawks can get nkemdiche and someone like Willie Henry or Chris Jones that would do more for the team than any rookie o linemen could
If you’re talking later rounds, maybe. At 26? I disagree entirely.
Would it totally shock everyone if SEA takes Ifedi at 26 and Le’Raven Clark at 56?
What would shock me, is if Clark was still on the board at 56.
If they could get those 2, it’d be like 2012 for me. When they got Bruce and BWagz.
That’s what I was thinking. I can see them taking Ifedi at 26, but also Clark if he’s available at 56.
Here’s a detailed scouting report on Clark from The Scouting Academy (via Draftbreakdown.com):
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/leraven-clark/#player-report
Not sure I agree they would take two rookie tackles that high. Tackles need reps to develop and there would be some time cannibalization in that scenario. I think they go OL DL LB depending on who’s there.
Ifedi was no Bruce Irvin and Clark was no BWagz. These guys are athletes, Bruce and Bobby were players.
Not my point, but ok.
Haha Yeah but you can’t acknowledge that he s making a good point that directly relates to your previous post? They chose Bruce and Wagner on the basis that they were studs and productive. Which contradicts your logic, that Clark and Ifedi would be a similar situation. You and Attyla are really starting to get chippy with guys who are just trying to debate. I am vocal too but I can appreciate the fact that some people are really behind Ifedi when I think he will get pushed around and overwhelmed like Britt. But they can support the idea of picking him. Your response was snotty. Everyone here should chill and just keep the debates friendly. None of us are NFL FO guys. We are just guessing like everyone else
Not chippy at all. Nor do I think Attyla is.
I’d be shocked.
Personally I think Clark is complete garbage. He’s not even particularly awesome as a tester. His tape is just plain gross.
If he had 34″ arms, is he even draftable?
Read the scouting report I linked in my comment above. It’s not as bad as you might think.
I don’t know Sal Conti. Other than he’s a recent high school graduate and a current student at the Scouting Academy. He’s a fresh, new contributor to InsidethePylon. He’s not been doing this for a long time and doesn’t have an established track record to judge.
My opinion based on what I saw of Clark isn’t even close. I’d add a dissenting opinion from Mike Gerken at NEPatriotsdraft:
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2016/02/scouting-report-leraven-clark-ot.html
Pasted comments below:
—–
Negatives:
Oh boy, where to start. First off, Clark played in a system that had him in a 2 point stance, so he will need to learn how to play from a 3 point stance. Clark is never the aggressor. His first step seems to be backwards in both run and pass plays. He reacts to what the defender does rather than dictating what he wants the defender to do. He does not take advantage of his long arms near enough, allowing defenders to get into his chest way too often. He has good lower body bend, but plays with his chest exposed, allowing defenders to push him back and get him off balance. He has to improve his footwork as well. He takes too many short, choppy steps and he doesn’t cover as much ground as he could. In the run game, he gets impatient in his blocks and gets his shoulders too far over his feet. Clark must work on hand use and placement as well, but that ties back to him not extending his arms. He does not show an aggressive demeanor in his blocks.
Overall:
Clark has raw skills and freakish size that are so tantalizing. I found myself so frustrated watching his tape because you can see that he has the size and athleticism to be a very good Tackle in the NFL. His technique is just so underdeveloped that I worry how long, if ever, it will be developed enough for him to contribute on the field. At the Senior Bowl, he kept getting beat inside, and for a guy with his length, that should never happen. If he would just force everything to the outside, he could use his long arms to keep defenders away from the QB. If a team is patient enough and Clark is willing to put in the work and learn, then someone will have a steal on their hands down the road. Right now, Clark is a project that needs time in an NFL system before he can be asked to contribute. Because of that, he gets a Day 3 grade for me, and I would start to target him in the 6th.
My opinion is pretty much identical to Mike’s, whose comments I found a couple weeks after I had taken a look at Clark. He is a player who plays with little power because he doesn’t effectively use his arms. His footwork is clumsy and he gets eaten up by the bull rush. He gets beaten repeatedly by the inside move — and it happened in Mobile on multiple occasions yet again.
——
To me, he isn’t a guy who can even make the 53 man roster. Strictly a PS candidate based on the volume of critical flaws to his game that he needs to correct. Never mind the fact that he is going to be drinking from the fire hose his first year trying to unlearn bad habits from his college scheme.
I would seriously have to replace my TV if we picked him in round 2.
I would destroy the shit out of my TV if we came out of the second with Clark. We already have one OLineman on the active squad who doesn’t actually play but can’t be trusted on the PS.
Really hoping we go Defense and Starter-level OT with our first 2. Plenty of guards, centers and projects in the midrounds. Only 53 roster spots. 3-4 areas that need to get better on Week One.
I’m with you. I will be highly disappointed if we were seduced into picking Clark higher than the 3rd. I don’t care what the guy’s measurable are; I want a football player. Go back and watch him be utterly destroyed by Spence during the senior bowl practices. Barely even gets a finger on him. The same Spence who has lost a little luster after an average combine showing.
And as many times as posters here are quick to remind this is our SB window, well…I don’t want our 1 or 2 going to a dude who might need 3/4 of his rookie contract to be coached up into being a competent lineman.
I agree, he wouldn’t be any different than drafting a D line convert again. He’s that bad.
He’s not as bad as people are making him out to be.
The OK St tape is pretty damb good.
He’s one of the few true LT’s in this class.
It would completely shock me if we took 2 OT prospects with our first 2 picks.
Rob
This is a perfect example of why we love your site. The national “pundits” seem to look only at team needs and filling those needs. (I understand this because all of the research takes an enormous amount of time.) However, with your site, you are dialed into the real needs and trends of our beloved Seahawks.
BTW; concerning the Hawks “calculated risks”… That is exactly why I never liked the Harvin deal. He had a history or injuries (real or imagined), he had a history of not fitting in / not being disciplined. (Look at what he again pulled last year.)
Well, thanks for my daily fix, I feel better all ready.
Thanks man 🙂
Jason La Canfora Verified Account
@JasonLaCanfora
NFL execs I know would do cartwheels to land Bruce Irvin anywhere near $9M/year some suggesting FWIW. price will be significantly higher
12:45 PM – 2 Mar 2016
Hope so. If he’s leaving anyway, might as well get a R3 comp (+10M APY).
Yeah. I think he’s going to get much closer to Von Miller money. He may be a 5-8 sack guy in this system but if allowed to rush the passer more, no doubt he’s a double digit sack guy. And with so many teams with crazy cap space, it’s not hard to imagine him getting well over 10. I’m happy for him.
I just hope he goes to Jax and not somewhere in the NFC because I want to be able to root for him
What’s Ifedi’s upside when compared to Le’Raven Clarks?
Ifedi is more complete. They both have tremendous upside though.
There’s just something about Clark that doesn’t sit well with me. watched a lot of tape on him and I have come to call him the Dancing Rabbit. He needs a lot of work.
Am I the only one that would take Tennessee WR Marquez North in the 4th round?
Injury concerns, yes. But again, I think he might have the best blend of size, athleticism, and skill set.
IDK if this is a philosophy of PC/JS, but if they don’t take a WR before or in the 4th, they wait until UDFA. But, this would be the year to take a receiver after the 4th.
That’s a tough one. R4 is a bit early for him. But then, R4 seems to be the round SEA like to draft WRs.
I think I’d prefer Kenny Lawler in R4. Not as athletic, but he has the size and ball skill set SEA covet.
“But, this would be the year to take a receiver after the 4th.”
Where have I seen this before ….
Otherwise I agree. I think they go UDFA. I expect them to.
Does Lawler have the speed though?
Round 4 might be a bit early, but then again, I’d even argue that Chris Harper and Kris Durham were taken a round or two earlier than they shoulda gone.
As for them taking a WR in UDFA, absolutely. They always do.
Really looking forward to see Udub’s Jaydon Mickens measurables.
He ran around a 4.4 but I think he is the type you can get as a 6th or 7th maybe even a free agent he never showed the ability to Crack 500 yards, of course that’s not all his own fault but still injuries and low production can mean low draft stock
I wonder how Britt did in the mirror dtill?
He thought it was a real mirror and started combing his hair — which is pretty much how he plays football in the NFL.
lol
awesome!
If Henry slips to the second, what would it take to move up near the top and grab him?
Probably a 3rd, 4th and our 6th if we’re only trading this year’s assets.
If he slips to 40-45, probably 56 and 90. If past deals are an indication
I think Seattle re-signs CB Jeremy Lane, DT Athyba Rubin, WR Jermaine Kearse, and a veteran O-lineman.
And maybe ‘Bane or a bargain bin DT.
Really like FA Stefan Charles.
Thinking the same with Canadian Stefan Charles previously of the Bills. He is a big man 6.5 323 with great athleticism. Hes a young backups (27 yrs old) stuck behind some good starting defensive lineman in Buffalo. Charles should be be affordable and probably available into the second week of free agency, so he could be this years Rubin.
That’s close to what I envision the Hawks doing. Lots of action on the secondary FA market too for solid OL and DL help.
Lots of comp picks for 2017’s excellent draft.
I think Kearse will price his way out of town. He is arguably one of the best FA WRs available and the draft looks pretty weak for WR talent that can step in and perform next year.
I would much rather keep Okung, Bane and Rubin, then fill the gaps in the draft. I would hate to see Lane walk, but he could also get some offers that will blow what we can afford out of the water.
I think it’ll be between Kearse and ‘Bane.
Just wondering if it’d be easier to draft a run stuffer and add a DL like Jason Jones.
As for Lane, him and Rubin will be their priorities IMO.
Kearse is looking at a $4.5mm to $5mm APY, Mebane would be quite a bit lower. But I also think Mebane would be easier to replace with a deeper FA DT pool. Paul Solial, Steven Mclendon and Knighton come to mind.
I’ve always gotten the vibe from Carroll that they would like to work out a deal with Kearse. Rubin seems almost a given. Lane, I would say likely, but the way the’ve stock piled corners has me thinking it might be a bit up in the air. I think Mebane is more 50/50. I can see them being patient with the FA market at DT. This draft could make it chilly, and they might be able to take advantage of that.
I think it could be easier to draft a quality run stuffer, and add a vet interior rusher like Jones. Mike Neal from GB could be interesting. I have an itch that they could look at Quenton Coples if his market is cold, to figure out if he could be an interior rusher. In fact I’m starting to look at the players in this draft that might comp more to the Jason Jones types than the DTs.
I think your thoughts on FA are spot on. Really want to see us add a guy like Jason Jones. You can never have too many pass rushers. Tyrunn Walker, also from the Lions, is another guy I would like to try and make a push for. Probably only have enough cash for one outside signing for the DL, though.
Also – I know Jordan Hill isn’t the quintessential run stuffer we usually have but it seemed like he improved more in this area compared to his pass rushing ability. Or maybe it just seems that way since he didn’t do much in terms of rushing the passer, lol.
Keep Rubin, Lane, add rotational DL player, maybe an interior OL player, and keep fingers crossed on Kearse. Mebane has been so solid and underrated I would hate to see him go. I think he or Kearse are the odd man out.
Jordan Hill improved his run play greatly in 2015, IMO. If he would have stayed healthy enough, I’d say he’d be a strong candidate to inherit the 1 tech in the base.
Don’t waste money on kearse he drops the ball too much I would prefer giving Kevin Williams or p rich those reps
FWIW, Germain Ifedi’s sim score/comp is on point to Kelechi Osemele’s.
Shaq Lawson comps to Chris Long, and Ogbah’s are crazy. Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn, Chandler Jones, Greg Hardy to name a few.
ATL cut Roddy White.
He is 35! I don’t think the Seahawks will blink here.
Will anyone? This might be one of those ‘retirements’ that just happens because no one wants the guy
If we take Clark in the first over Ifedi and Coleman I would be seriously disappointed.
Same here!
The earliest I’d want to take Clark is in the second round.
Third for me.
Second is worst case scenario…like Britt
he’s garbage
Spriggs is available in both McShay’s and Jeremiah’s mocks. I’d take him in a heartbeat over Ifedi or Clark. It’s a toss up over Coleman. I’d be happy either way.
I agree. His combine was great. He looks more ready to be a rookie starter at LT than Ifedi, Clark or Coleman.
Yes. But I doubt he actually will be available. That guy was insane at the combine….
I don’t think he will be there at 26 either.
Me either. Just playing off of the presented mock drafts. Spriggs or Coleman…can’t lose.
Zach Whitman is saying Spriggs is only 6th for OL in the SPARQ ratings. It’s hard to see any OLineman clearly better than him athletically judging by combine numbers.
Which of these Interior OL propsects do you thing will be there when we pick in Rd #2?
-Ryan Kelly
-Zach Martin
-Westerman
-Josh Garnett
I think all 4 would be great in the 2nd round just not sure any of them will still be on the board.
I think Westerman and maybe Garnett. But probably not Nick Martin or Ryan Kelly.
Westerman, and make him the center.
I like Westerman as a LG, STRONG and athletic enough to pull, double and get to the second level under control. At C, I think pass blocking and discipline is a bit more important and it would take away some of the aggressiveness that Westerman plays with naturally.
Is a side like the Ravens good enough to take the risk in the 2nd round?
They get to pick 6th, so can make a safe pick there, and swing for the fences at 36.
Roddy White just got cut by the Falcons. Any interest from the Seahawks for Shermans mate in Atlanta. Cheap vet deal for him to chase a ring and for us to replace Kearse.
How many NFCCGames has Roddy won?
It’s just that the Seahawks like young receivers who have special qualities. Roddy is 35 and not nearly as good as he used to be. I could see the Seahawks going after Boldin because he is special when it comes to possession-style receivers, one of the best to ever have that label. But I would guess we would much rather have even Kasen in there than any free agent receiver right now.
How many times has he been the cause of 3 interceptions? How many times has Jermaine kearse dropped a pass that would have been a first down on third down. If the Hawks keep kearse I’ll be disappointed beyond blocking he is a below average receiver
Bit of a diva — and his play has dropped off.
Roddy White is a shell of his former self. He wants the ball in a pass heavy offense. He was pissed he had to block so much in 2015… he even said so in at least one interview.
Nope, not at all. He is not even as good as Kearse at this point in his career. His attitude is also a turn-off. He was complaining while the Falcons were winning games about his targets. All while the offense was humming along and his teammates, Julio Jones and Devonta Robinson were balling out.
Coincidentally, I’ve long thought that Gilliam’s best athletic comp is Duane Brown; another reason why I truly believe GG is poised to be a very good LT – more of an athletes game on the blindside than the brawlers game played on the strong side.
I should add though, regarding Ifedi, he seems to have the nasty makeup for the right side.
Ifedi looks like the type of guy you want walking to midfield with your qb for the coin toss (got that Breno/Trent Williams/Anthony Davis snarl to him).
He’s definetly got some nasty in him.
Freakish athlete, young, crazy wingspan, tough guy, love his deameanor and confidence. He’s got that Seahawk swag.
My only worry with Ifedi is, he’s starting to sound like a top 15 type player. And it’s only March 2nd! Plenty of time for teams to think about how good he is.
Texas A&M RB Tra Carson. Wanna see what he does at his pro day. Big back too. Could be a really good backup or even just some competition.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHHlgx5Swk
2015 stats: 242 att., 1165 yds., 7 TDs, 29 rec., 181 yds, 1 TD
Carson is talented and has 3rd down RB skills.
Ifedi really stood out. Dudes got some power to his game. Only saw him overextend once. Mathews was no slouch either. Carson looked good catching and can really bring it.
He’s a really laid back guy too. Played pickup football with him at oregon.
My most Seahawky guy in this draft. Nick Vannett TE Ohio St. 6’6″, 257lbs., 34 1/4″ reach, 10″ hands. did 20yd shuttle 4.2. The first TE drafted is now gone and I mean Anthony McCoy. Believe it or not the TE group suffered last year and we haven’t even felt the repercussions of it. We need another Zack Miller type. I did this a couple of years when we draft Christine Michaels and Tracie Kelce left the board next pick. May be its time to restock a big part of Seattle offense with a full time TE option. I’m not sure Graham actually has this ability , its not his strong suit to tall and lancky.
Its not like ohio runs stuff different then we do with a run first offense. Nick was part of that run blocking and so he sacrificed for the team the amount of catch’s he got. That is such a Seahawky trait. Don’t discount a good TE on a team. More chapionships have been won or lost by the TE than people think. A drop in Dallas loss comes to mind.
Stanford’s TE Austin Hooper is so similar to Zach Miller.
I love this pick. Seems like the discussions about a new tight end have never got started. Willson has done well when they put him in. Injured Graham may not play this season, I hope they will at least renegotiate his contract and make it more dependent on games played. No reason to pay 10 million for an injured player. Plus he is more of a wide receiver then a tight end.
So the Seahawks are depending on one good tight end, and one wide receiver/tight end who may not play this year. Should be an easy upgrade if they pick a tight end in the mid to late rounds.
They went to the Super Bowl with Luke Willson starting at TE. They said Graham is ahead of schedule and expect him back for next season.
Drafting a TE early, with so many other needs, just doesn’t feel like a good use of resources. Go with Willson and Helfet until Graham returns.
Would you agree that they should draft a tight end or find a UDFA tight end? Graham is NOT a tight end. That just leaves Willson.
No I don’t expect them to draft a TE. It’s a wretched class (again).
I expect they will role with Willson, Helfet, Coffman and maybe someone else brought in on the cheap as competition (McCoy again?) and roll with it until Graham returns.
Brandon Cottom. Not only will he be our blocking TE, he’ll be our FB, our 4th string RB, and our new ST ace.
Just kidding. What Rob said.
“They went to the Super Bowl with Luke Willson starting at TE.”
Why is this such an argument in this case, but it’s ignored that they also did it with Britt starting at RT as a rookie? Team success is used as an argument against change sometimes, but in other topics is ignored. I’d argue that that Super Bowl would have been won had there been a true TE on the roster, as it was set up for the offense to put it away late while the defense was so banged up and a TE with a balanced game might have helped get a couple more first downs and an insurance score. Even if the class is weak, it’s not empty and Helfet could absolutely be improved on; even when Graham gets back, I’d prefer to see Willson share the backup snaps with a true TE who can block. Even using an extra tackle situationally is poor substitute for a real TE.
Arguably because Willson had an impact and the feeling was Britt was a liability even in 2014.
The thing is, even with that position, it seems more and more obvious that improving tackle play is tougher and there is a simple, sensible argument that having even a backup level tight end available who has balance to his game could have helped to lock up that game pretty easily.
File this under ‘need that you’d solve if there wasn’t a salary cap’. There are just way too many other priorities.
I know I’m in the minority, but I think it should be much higher of a priority, partially because it actually helps with the top one of improving OL play. I also think it doesn’t take much cap use to improve it either. You’ve said yourself that blocking TEs are easy to find and cheap, so even swapping out Helfet for one of them would have more of a positive impact without any real sacrifice elsewhere.
I don’t recall saying blocking TE’s are easy to find and are cheap.
I do recall saying they virtually don’t exist any more.
I really like Vannett a lot. He ha has great hands too for a big guy. I would be fine with him in the 2nd round but I think he will go before we pick.
I think he goes in the middle of the third just before we pick.
Ditto.
Coffman could be a legit contributor this year!
I love this time of the year almost as much as the actual season….so exciting to think about all the possibilities.
Also, we haven’t discussed it much, but what are everyone’s thoughts on Ravens G Kelechi Osemele. Regarded as the top free agent Guard, but should still come at maybe 1-2 Mil less per year than Russell Okung.
In this scenario, I still think we take an OT with our 1st pick, and then some center competition a few rounds later. Vastly different line than last season, but as someone mentioned, a full offseason working together instead of 2 weeks, should be a major difference.
I suspect Osemele will get at least $10m APY. The Seahawks, unfortunately, just can’t afford that.
Ah, I was under the impression he was looking at a deal closer to $8m per year. Just saw your note at the bottom of the post.
$10m per year is probably what Alex Mack is looking at too, correct?
Why? There aren’t many players of real starter value that are leaving beyond lane and okung osmele would replace okung and be better because okung gets beat in 1 on 1 situations all the time. Also the free agent centers and guards include a lot of cheaper veteran options. Why wouldn’t the Seahawks spend more in free agency on the o line and spend more draft capitol on defensive players? I mean seriously this is the year to do so the class is really deep at DT where two of the Hawks free agents are, the draft also hs a corner in Worley who had a slow 40 at the combine but plays faster on tape and another in kj dilion who is like DeShawn shead. Also the class has excellent d end depth the only positions that really seem lacking in Seahawk type options on defense are linebacker and safety.
The Seahawks can’t afford to sign someone on a $10m salary this off-season. And Osemele might earn more than $10m APY.
They have enough cap space and if it’s a multiyear deal they could back load some of it
Anyway we could fit Rubin (4mil), Lane (5mil) and Mack (9mil) under cap and extend Baldwin, Bennett?
We would get a 3-4th round comp for Bruce and the same for Okung but lose one for Mack. We would still likely get 3 comp picks in 2017.
Rd#1 Coleman / Ifedi (RT)
Rd #2 (Garnett) (LG)
Rd#3 Freeney (LB) replace Bruce
Rd #3 Comp Prosise (RB)
Rd#4 Willie Henery (DT)
2016 OL would be a huge upgrade and could stay together 3 years + to grow together.
LT Gilliam, LG Garnett, C Mack, RG Glowinski RT Coleman
I think Mack ends up in LA. California guy, they have a ton of cap room. They could offer him $10m APY.
I know Ariz also needs a Center I wonder what their cap situation was? If not my biggest fear was Jacksonville. I never even considered the LA connection but that makes sense.
Cards just moved Jonathon Cooper to center. At least, according to the latest reports.
Mack is a UFA, no way. They want the potential 2017 3rd round comp from Irvin getting a mega deal from someone else.
I go Jacksonville, he signed there before why not again. They’re a team on the rise and have a ton of cap space and have to spend.
Just read on fieldgulls that we only have 12-15 for free agency including re-signings, once the rookies, PS et. are accounted for. That being said, I think Mack, Irvin and, thank God, Okung are out of the question. Lane only if he signs cheap and there’s no reason to think he will, and Mebane or Rubin will likely be gone.
Coleman and Garnett would the OLine around, I think, without paying Mack.
would turn the OL around
Not sure where these numbers are coming from. It’s people predicting what the FO will do. Once Lynch is off the books we have $29 million. You save 6 million for practice squad, IR , and the draft picks and your left with $23 million. If you start predicting the RFA’s and what money they will get you can start lowering it but we don’t know, it’s all a guess.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/2/4/10919088/clarifying-the-seahawks-current-salary-cap-standing
Davis Hsu doesn’t guess on these things — he’s scarily accurate. So if he says $18-19m for the seven guys set to earn +$2m APY, you can take it to the bank.
‘The bank’ checks numbers, not reputation. Hsu hasn’t shown his detailed breakdown and the original 18m estimate was a long time ago.
RFAs/ERFAs may very well not total 5m extra against the cap as Hsu assumes. Jon Ryan is not a roster lock, even though that was built into the 18m estimate. Hsu doesn’t account for the prospect that Lynch could be designated a post-June 1 cut. And some back loading of contracts makes eminent sense this offseason, when you actually look at he two-year picture (as Schneider publicly says he does). That is why even a 10m contract is entirely plausible, even if not desirable or likely, and why the Seahawks do have options overall. All of these points have been made in these threads and no one has disputed them on the evidence.
franks, here is Jason Drake’s more recent update of that article you linked, in case you hadn’t seen it, which incorporates Willson’s salary bump and the final official cap figure:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/2/23/11081186/nfl-salary-cap-seahawks-russell-okung-bruce-irvin-jermaine-kearse#361122155
There you will find the most credible and substantiated figure we have to work with at present: $24.79M after IR/PS/draft and before RFA/ERFA signings. This is in the same ballpark as Greg Haugsven’s number above and EranUngar’s ballparking on this site as well.
Back loading could stretch this further as 2017 represents a net cap increase over needs. It bears repeating as well that each new contract is -500k against the cap because a rookie salary is replaced. So 5 UFA/FA contracts totaling APY 25m counts 22.5m against the cap.
When all is said and done, the theoretical upper limit of UFA/FA salaries the Seahawks could take on this offseason is actually more than 25m, even with responsible back loading. That’s not a prediction but it’s important to use accurate figures when making predictions.
“Hsu hasn’t shown his detailed breakdown and the original 18m estimate was a long time ago.”
It was a few weeks ago, he did break it down and I trust Hsu implicitly. Feel free to believe the Seahawks have $24m to spend, but you’ll be disappointed when FA begins.
I actually didnt read the comment section, where it’s pointed out that the 12-15 number doesn’t include the space Marshawn will clear, and that’s around 6 mill. So its not totally at odds with Hsu’s earlier numbers.
Hsu seems very meticulous I agree but it’s hard for me to read his articles getting to back. Never seen him spell it out as plainly as Drake did here. Doesnt mean Drake is right but it’s easier to follow his logic for me.
Hard to read them front to back, I mean to read the whole thing
That is old and wrong
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/2/23/11081186/nfl-salary-cap-seahawks-russell-okung-bruce-irvin-jermaine-kearse?_ga=1.217574932.36847245.1426014940
17 to 18 million possibly more more likely 20 or so especially wit the cap at 155
It’s actually more like $18m. The cap went up and they had to increase Luke Willson’s contract.
Poweroflogic,
Since you mentioned me i’ll clarify:
We are all talking about the same numbers. 24-25M after PS/IR and rookie class. David Hsu, the cap guru, took it just one step further. He estimated the cost for RFAs and ERFA’s (Shead, Lewis etc.) and other sub 2M players at 6-7M. I fully agree with that estimation.
It will indeed leave us with approx 18M for those 7 big names.
The Seahawks can extend that number as it relates to total APY in 2 ways – Designating Lynch as a post June 1 cut and pushing 2.5M of his dead money to 2017. Or, back-loading contracts (not applicable for players signing a 1-2 years contract).
A reasonable estimation considering the 2017 cap space will be that the Seahawks can sign players to 22-25APY total.
That number includes extra to existing players like Bennett and Baldwin.
The Seahawks cannot designate Lynch post-June 1 because he retired. You have to cut someone to be able to do that. I am pretty sure of this.
As for your point, Miles, it is a good question. Have you seen a signed retirement form yet? AFAIK trade, release and retirement are all treated the exact same way vis-a-vis the post-June 1 designation.
Keep in mind, the Seahawks had the option to pursue signing bonus money and in Joel Corry’s interview touching on Lynch, he noted as a former agent that a team almost always seeks to extract every last dollar from the player to save cap space. Is it possible a mutually advantageous arrangement was made about the date of retirement? I don’t know but in a way it matters little.
It all comes down to the dead money spread over two years. If more of it hits next year, the team has the option of taking this directly into consideration when structuring contracts this year, lowering first year cap hits. The important fact that Jason Drake’s cap analysis and the post-June designation brings to light is, no matter which way you ‘cut’ it with respect to Lynch, there are two year’s worth of cap savings that the organization WILL take into account in determining contract flexibility this offseason. Therefore we MUST take this into account if we want a proper assessment of free agency possibilities.
It was written into the contract that Seattle couldn’t pursue the signing bonus money. A sign of respect from the Hawks to Lynch a year ago.
Thanks Rob, I hadn’t read that. Such a request could easily have been granted without leverage of course and, again, in a way it doesn’t matter. It would only offer a bit more flexibility. The Seahawks will still redeploy every dollar of that 9m cap savings to new contracts — potentially all of it this offseason — whether or not all 9m is reflected formally in 2016 cap space.
This is more or less how I see it although I think ~25 worth of APY salaries is the real theoretical upper limit. That does not mean the Seahawks will go to this limit, it just means they can. People also fail to deduct 500k cap hit from prospective contract values.
The point here is to relate formal cap restrictions (the tedious background accounting) to the player salary figures and contract flexibility that we are all more familiar with and that goes into projections around UFAs/FAs.
Hsu’s twitter posts involved a projection first, that Ryan and basically all RFAs will be signed, and then came up with a number (albeit one that did not get into the nuances and potential flexibility noted above). This is absolutely fine of course for what it is. But in terms of strict and objective accounting a Jon Ryan contract would be more than 2m and he will be competing for cap space with other UFAs. When Carroll and Schneider discuss, you can be sure there is no automatic assumption that your punter will be resigned at the expense of Rubin or Mebane (for example).
Further analysis (or actual reporting of signings) is required to settle the question of the cap implications of RFAs. Either way, until someone can demonstrate otherwise on the evidence, the Seahawks have much more flexibility than 18m worth of player salaries in the 2m+ category. This comes down to numbers and facts not opinion and authority of the speaker — or else we might as well be stating Mayock’s mock drafts as fact.
Don’t think that OL scenario is very likely to happen, but man would it look good!
We have an elite QB I hope they focus on protecting him. That OL would be a great run blocking and pass pro line IMO so we would not loose our tough running game identity. I just think they really have to put resources into protecting Russ and being the dynamic player he has shown he can be.
The thought of him having to run for his life again next year is the one thing that must be avoided this off season.
Agreed. I’d like to see that OL unit for sure. We were all saying how much of a need OL was at the same time last year. We drafted 3 on day 3, and there was only 1 game started by a rookie last year-because of injury. The biggest mistake was starting Nowak, after Lewis was inserted into the lineup the offense took off. Just saying that investing major draft capital(2 of our first 4 picks) doesn’t guarantee an instant upgrade. It takes time to learn the system. Much like CB.
John Clayton just mentioned that he thinks Sweezy might be coming back to Seattle for 3.5-4M per year deal. He will test the market and find out, there is no place like home (Seattle). This was during his 1600 Danny/Dave/Moore segment on 710ESPN today.
So if this is indeed true. LT, LG and possibly C are the targets in the draft (or FA).
If this is true they’re not telling the truth about what’s going on with the O Line.
Rt not lt
Meh on that.
At that price it wouldn’t be a bad move.
I really think Sweezy will be back. The rest of the league will not value Sweezy as highly because of his pass blocking deficiencies.
Everyone has their own take on Sweezy, but he’s a good run blocker and he’s healthy and reliable (and hopefully cheap). Based on everything we’ve ever heard about him from the staff, there’s no denying that they love the guy. These next few years should be the best of Sweezy’s career, especially if we can up the talent level just a little bit to his immediate left and right… It doesn’t make a ton of sense to take on this sort of long term project if you’re just going to spend 4 years coaching him up and then let someone else reap the benefits just as he’s hitting his peak.
Give me a guy that can at least stalemate his guy in pass pro. Who cares if he can run block. We do pass the ball too. I hope Pete let’s him walk. He’s a liability!
Who care’s if he can run block? Seriously? I think Pete Carroll cares…
You have a choice at #26 between Spriggs, Coleman or Ifedi… who do you pick?
Coleman is a bird in the hand, Ifedi and Spriggs are 2 in the bush.
I’ll take any of the three.
Yes sir.
But, which would the the best guy to grab….. 🙂
My gamble would be BPA (DL/Keanu), and then get McGovern and Rees Odhiambo (bargain), maybe Alex McCalister
I think I’d take any of them as well. If I had to answer I might remove Coleman due to his age (24). Have to say Ifedi just due to upside.
I keep hearing about Ifedis upside? does coleman not have any upside? are there ceilings that far apart?
Ifedi has Greg Robinson upside, but so does Greg Robinson! To me he’s a pie in the sky, compared to someone like Coleman who’s shown what he’s made of on the field.
Rob….. Referring back to the article you wrote just before we played the niners and we were slotted at the 12th pick. In this write up you refer to Coleman dominating SEC opponents and even said you like Coleman over Tunsil at that point. Why is he the 7 th or 8th tackle being taken? Is he still just as talented or have you found flaws in his game? Just the medical….small upside? What am I missing? Seems like he’s the no brainer if he’s available!
I felt he performed as well as Tunsil (Tunsil returned late in the year after a suspension). Both players handled Texas A&M’s brilliant Myles Garrett similarly well.
I think Coleman is a top-25 talent. However, he’s missed the Senior Bowl and combine through injury, he’ll be a 24-year-old rookie and medically teams will have to look at his recovery from cancer. These little things, along with the performance of Spriggs at the Senior Bowl/combine and Ifedi at the combine, can impact a teams rankings.
Rob. Appreciate all the great work you’ve done here. With all the talk of the various options for offensive lineman I’ve seen very little with regard to some of the O/L who are currently on the team. There has been some talk of Glowinski but what about Sokoli? Poole? Nowak? They’ve all had a year of NFL coaching. Is there any expectation one of them may take the next step and earn a starting position? They obviously thought highly of Nowak at one time and folks in these parts were giddy when we drafted sparq god Sokoli. Are they already considered failed draft choices?
I think those guys are all better than they were previously. They are constantly improving. I am hopeful that one of the young guys just crushes it this summer! My $ is on Sokoli because of the ridiculous athleticism. And I think his mindset is unstoppable because he is striving to make his war torn country proud!
I think Poole will compete — but he has to make strides. Sokoli likely has another year of development. Glowinski could easily start at RG. Nowak — not optimistic.
How great would it be if they could turn Sokoli into a Pro Bowler that just decimates DL and LBs. It just feels like with the right coaching and his athleticism, there is not reason why that shouldn’t happen.
It’d be wonderful — but he has a long way to go! Let’s hope he gets there one day.
Just reading an article about Treadwells combine experience. He said the person that impressed him most was Pete Carrol. Says a lot when the oldest coach in the NFL is the guy a top prospect points out as being the most impressive.
If Pete ever went back to college football he would still be the best recruiter in the country. Love the culture he has created in Seattle. The attitude and collection of characters make it fun to be a Hawks fan. It is also why it is so hard to figure out who they will take in the draft.
It really does.
That’s an interesting piece of info.
So glad that they’re working on an extension for PC.
I have this feeling he is real with guys. He doesn’t say, you got the job, he says… if you compete and play your best.. we are here for you and will make you even better. It strokes a guys ego a little bit…. and the success he has had getting guys into the NFL from CFB and getting players to achieve great things in the NFL (pro Bowl/All Pro) give him gravitas when a prospective player is in his presence. He also let’s them be men and be themselves, for the perfect example…. M Lynch.
Rob, did you ever get a chance to check out Oregon St’s OL Isaac Seumalo? Seems ke a sleeper on the ininterior.
He was very highly thought of out of high school, but he never really developed.
Stock up on Seumalo. He impressed at combine.
Smooth feet on the mirror drill, just had that calm upper body and looked like he was gliding on ice or something. I saw that one drill and then had to follow the rest of his workout. He was consistently one of the most athletic looking linemen in every single drill. Needs to get stronger, but he squats down pretty deep so leverage is his friend. He looks really natural in pass protection and you aren’t going to beat him with speed. I like him a lot as a developmental type.
Rob,
Lets say there was some type of weird contest where one fan was in charge of his favorite teams franchise for the first round of the draft and you won. If your reputation on this blog and your reputation as this being the one time only that you ever really got to make a pick for the Seahawks…
Who would you take for your favorite team? Would you go with the safer pick (Coleman) or would you go for who you think others would take… even though you know this is your lifetime reputation on the line.
Go big (Ifedi) or go home (Coleman)?
I’d probably play it safe since it’s my lifetime reputation and I wouldn’t want to take a bust, which means I’d probably go Whitehair, Garrett, or Martin. I wouldn’t have the guts to go big (Ifedi, Fackrell).
Spriggs for me, if available. If we limit it to OL/DL types for Seattle.
If it is ANY guy / ANY position, then E Elliot. I think he will be outstanding.
Wow what a question. I might do the same to save face! But then that wouldn’t be very Seahawky. I’d probably just take my favourite player, regardless of position.
Rob we’d have some nice players if you ran the first round. Coleman strikes me as more of a Rob Staton-type.
Comp pick question – is it possible Seattle could gain the top 2 comp picks after this free agency? Irvin and Okung could possibly net over $10 million a year (sounds like Irvin could be way higher than that?). Could Seattle land two 3rd round picks?
They could, depending on the deals. More likely a 3rd and 4th. They would have to pretty much not pick-up any UFAs for any money over 4M a year (that are not their own).
With all the franchise tags is actually a possibility. Both could get 10 plus mil. With mack voiding his contract does that make him a cut player and not count for companies picks?
The more players that sign with there current team the better our chances of multiple 3rd round comp picks. We don’t want to see big time players change teams. Broncos might lose Jackson to some fat coin.
Field gulls has the top players mocked to Seattle so far…. out of the mock drafts they surveyed
Michigan State OT Jack Conklin
Baylor DT Andrew Billings
Alabama DT/DE Jarran Reed
Ohio State OT Taylor Decker
Ole Mill DT Robert Nkemdiche
Indiana OT Jason Spriggs
Louisville DT Sheldon Rankins
I like all of them except Reed, just because I think a 1-Tech can be had later in the draft. I don’t know enough to know who will be better out of that group they all have their various strengths/weaknesses.
What if Okung, against all expectations, extend with Seattle? Still Ifedi/Coleman? Ogbah/Lawson? Keanu Neal? Trade down?
Judging from Rob’s posts it sounds like the only reason to go OL in the first is if they decide to draft a tackle. Quality interior OL would seem to be available into the 3rd round.
I think if they re-sign Okung, Ifedi/Coleman is still appealing because they can both play multiple positions. So, if Okung gets hurt they can spell him at LT. When he’s healthy they bulldoze folks at LG. They could both supplant Alvin Bailey as the swing tackle while also being a quality starter at 4 of the spots on the line.
I agree. But if they go for someone like Ogbah instead, I would love it. I am also wondering about who the left guards are later in the draft (round 3-4) if they go that route. We have to replace Britt.
Best OL or DL for me. Possibly Ogbah.
NFL.com is reporting that Jerry Jones says the Cowboys won’t spend the #4 pick on a QB.
Just passing on news, but a continuation of a discussion from a few threads ago. I thought all along the Cowboys wouldn’t take a QB. Heck, Jerry legit believes Romo can play another 4-5 years. Thinking Buckner, now.
JJ is not calling the shots. His son is. Anything could happen with these guys.
Yes, Stephen is calling the shots, except whenever Jerruh says he isn’t.
As much as I despise Jerruh and the Cowgirls, take this one to the bank. There is NO way they draft a developmental QB at 4. Jerruh is in win now mode in the twilight of Romo’s career. Plus, he is on record stating that Aikman’s two-win rookie season was actually a good thing for the QB and the team…somehow…and when the times comes to replace Romo that he is willing to start fresh with a rookie QB and tank that season. So no developmental QBs for Dallas.
Jerry is an idiot.
But, in this situation, I’d agree that you don’t take one of these top QB’s at 4. These guys really aren’t that good. This isn’t a great QB class and I think that you’re looking at upside of a Josh McCown for most of them. Wait until round 2 or 3 and grab Prescott to develop.
This might not be a great year for quarterbacks, but at least there’s quarterbacks to take. What if next year it’s like 2013 and the consensus is there are no starting QBs available, and then someone like the Bills forces a pick on some guy like EJ Manuel. Not saying that Carson Wentz is a great pick, but in this day and age YOU CAN DO A LOT WORSE.
Not saying the Cowboys definitely should draft a QB. But if they are going to need someone, maybe it’s better to take one when the gettin’ is better than what it could be.
You know what’s really gonna bum me out?
We’re gonna have like 3 or 4 options still on the board at #26 that we all love, and then the ‘Hawks are gonna select a guy that we thought was gonna be a late second rounder at a position that we haven’t been considering.
They’ll go punter or some crazy thing. Every year they take a guy that we’re surprised about and then we slap ourselves in the face and say, “We should have known!”
This is almost surely what’s going to happen.
C’mon…you and I know what’s really going to happen. You’re going to devote four hours to sitting there watching other teams make picks, and then we’ll be two away from the Seahawks….then we’ll be on the crawl as the next pick….then “beep-bloop-beep”: “TRADE”……”Seahawks get…..”
Saw a recent report (can’t remember where) that the Jets are either going to cut Breno or move him inside to guard. I actually would like to see he and his size at LG for us because you know he’s not going to command a hefty salary. He probably means more to the Seahawks than anyone else, too.
He has already been cut, if I recall correctly. Some would like to see him in Seattle at LG.
He’s still a Jet.
Mock after Nkemdiche-
2- McGovern, RT. Good player who nailed the combine. Tough, strong and athletic. Nails down Right Tackle for the next 4 years and springs Rawls for many big runs around the edge. Can slide him in to guard on either side.
3a- Austin Johnson, DT. Drops after bad combine. Mebane or Rubin leave town.
3b. Freeney LB. Might be early for him but he played for the UW. Great athlete but ok player with injury concerns.
4. Brandon Shell, OG/RT. Art Shell’s nephew. Big and explosive. Combine leader at the broad jump.
5. Stepane Nembot, RT. Big, long athlete, 322 pounds with room on his frame to add weight. A combine leader on the bench reps, broad jumped 103″. Raw Cable-project for the PS.
I like Nembot as an O-line project nearly as much as Clark and at a much cheaper price.
Right and in an appropriate spot. Who redshirts first-round picks?
Cinncinati redshirted their first and second round pick last year…
and when was the last time they won a meaningful game?
For funs / after combine update
(3/2)
Round 1 (1) JASON SPRIGGS, OT
Round 2 (1) ROBERT NKEMDICHE, DT/DE
Round 3 (2) AUSTIN HOOPER, TE / C.J. PROCISE, RB
Round 4 (1) JAMES BRADBERRY, CB
Round 5 (1) FAHN COOPER, OT
Round 6 (1) KEITH MARSHALL, RB
Round 7 (2) NICK O’TOOLE, P / TREVONE BOYKIN, QB
Rob,
I don’t doubt the number, but where did you get Ifedi’s vert? I can’t find it anywhere online.
From the combine
Well I assumed that much, but it’s not showing up on NFL.com or anywhere else I can find. I didn’t actually see him do it, and I can’t find a number recorded anywhere.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MhmzWDgIqCIoYL0K1c8MG43W1djmSw5trl5-oJfe24Q/edit#gid=243121993
I could definetely get on board with Ifedi’s upside, just don’t want to give up 30+ sacks in the first 5 games again.. How intelligent is he? Could he pick up what Cable is laying down in one camp? If he is smart then I could dig it, if not then I think it would be a mess for at least year 1.
Very intelligent and well spoken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOiNRYZmxYo
Has anyone watched the Titans play football the last couple years? What’s the deal with LB – Zach Brown? I know he got demoted last season, I know he’s a free agent, and I know he ran a 4.5 at 244 lbs a few years ago. This is literally all the knowledge I have of him as a player… Anyone think he’d be a fit for the ‘Hawks?
According to ESPN he is ranked the 85th best free agent. At the 2012 combine he actually had a 4.44 at 6’1 253 with a 1.52 10 split. That is very fast. Can’t see us not having interest.
Where do you get those nubmers? NFL.com has him at a 4.50
For some people that is more than enough….I’d like to see him play. Is he tough or just fast??
Britt goes back to RT as Gilliam becomes our new LT. Sokoli and Glowinski at Gs. Add some competition in FA and the Draft and let the competition begin. Scary, but seems like the Seahawks’ way. Hopefully, every game includes a Plan B to use TEs to chip and release if our Ts struggle early. Russ mitigates some DE rush with his ability to bust a move and run. I’m actually pretty pumped about Glow because he looked very methodical and effective in his one start. No lunges, no flails…so refreshing. Sokoli may surprise this year. His athleticism is GOAT for olineman and he hails from a war torn country. He has said that he is going to inspire his country and make them proud. That’s inspiring! That dude is probably all alone in a musty gym right now!
I have always liked Cameron Wake is he gonna get a deal done or is he somebody we could take a look at bringing in for some instant pass rush? Coles always been played out of position and still young? Thoughts anybody.
Can’t imagine the Seahawks being able to afford him if he’s released.
I don’t want any part of Robert Nkemdiche. We saw what happened when the Cowboys signed Greg Hardy. And took Randy Gregory. The Hawks traded away a 1st and third for Percy Harvin. The Hawks also traded away a 1st for Jimmy Graham. The Hawks could have used those picks on offensive lineman.
I put full faith in the front office to investigate his character and determine if his problems are ones he can overcome. I think based on talent alone, it’s hard not to take him. But I know Pete & John will put in the work to feel good about who he is before making that decision.
I feel that way too. I don’t know enough. Some information is available and some stuff is being spun to support certain arguments. His interview, for instance, wasn’t the disaster the ESPN and NFLN talking heads are making out to be. Anyone who hasn’t already, do yourself a favor and actually watch it on You Tube and form your own opinion. If Pete and John want him, and feel like he’ll help us win a Super Bowl – then sign me up too.
I was against the Clark pick initially last year because everything available made it sound like he definitely got away with DV. The information was all one-sided though because more came to light. After a while it seemed the police report was inaccurate or at a minimum a lot of guess work based on assumption. Not enough facts for the prosecutor to even pursue him for DV, her word holds a lot of water in my opinion because she dealt in facts and spoke about it with her reputation on the line.
I’d be ecstatic if we Drafted NK. If we do, I will trust that PCJS did their homework because they have better sources than the Internet opinions that I have at my disposal.
“I will trust that PCJS did their homework because they have better sources than the Internet opinions that I have at my disposal.”
I think we’d all feel that way to be honest. But nobody is really questioning Pete and John’s judgement, the question is how likely are they to take the chance on Nkemdiche. He seems like a total nightmare, a completely unnecessary risk.
Hey Rob, do you think we can dig into the UCLA prospect’s Brendel,Benenoch and Redmond. Are there any Dirtbag’s among the bunch?
I think that one of the picks the Hawks will almost surely make on day #2 is Travis Freeney or Stephan Weatherby in the 3rd round to replace Bruce. Both guys are great athletes with the speed and length to play LB in our system. They may not have Bruces pass rush ability but are more natural LBs who have shown the ability to be play makers.
Montese Overton is another guy who might be on the LB watch list as well. Also like Jatavius Brown out of Akron who was not invited to combine. We got a steal out of the MAC last year with Rawls. Maybe Jatavius Brown will be this years MAC steal for the Hawks.
Rob, do you see the Seahawks changing their draft philosophy with their cap space trending down.
My thinking: With all their success finding value (Sherman, Bennett, Wilson, et al) in draft and FA, they may need to play it more conservative now that those guys are getting paid: to find plug-and-play players at positions of need. At some point, they’ll have to cull their roster (Unger, last; Okung, this) to peruse FA or take players like Garnett instead of Clark, passing on Freeney, etc.
Based on what they’ve said, it sounds like they’ll continue taking some high upside risks.
I don’t think they’ll change anything. They have their way — and they would argue it’s worked overall so far.
Little help here guys. In our base defense DT we play bane and rubin. If they are both run stuffers which position is the one that would be replaced by the run stuffing guy that can also pass rush? I always thought ones job was to take on two blocks and not move. Or is that both of their jobs? If we draft a dt with pass rushing skills which spot does he play…can you explain how we shuffle those guys without losing our inpenetrable run defense? What’s best for our scheme?
If they draft a DT with pass rushing skills that guy likely comes in via the nascar or in specific downs ala Clinton McDonald/Jordan Hill. Doesn’t play base.
Thanks