We had some technical issues with the podcast this week — and it means we’ve only been able to salvage the first half of the recording. Please still check it out below:
First round update
#1 Tennessee Titans — Joey Bosa (DE, Ohio State)
#2 Cleveland Browns — Paxton Lynch (QB, Memphis)
#3 Dallas Cowboys — Robert Nkemdiche (DE, Ole Miss)
#4 San Diego Chargers — Laremy Tunsil (T, Ole Miss)
#5 San Francisco 49ers — Jaylon Smith (LB, Notre Dame)
#6 Miami Dolphins — Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU)
#7 Jacksonville Jaguars — Shon Coleman (T, Auburn)
#8 Baltimore Ravens — Corey Coleman (WR, Baylor)
#9 Philadelphia Eagles — Taylor Decker (T, Ohio State)
#10 St. Louis Rams — Laquon Treadwell (WR, Ole Miss)
#11 New Orleans Saints — Eli Apple (CB, Ohio State)
#12 Detroit Lions — DeForest Buckner (DE, Oregon)
#13 New York Giants — Myles Jack (LB, UCLA)
#14 Atlanta Falcons — Jaylen Ramsey (S, Florida State)
#15 Tampa Bay Buccaneers — Cameron Sutton (CB, Tennessee)
#16 Oakland Raiders — Jack Conklin (T, Michigan State)
#17 Buffalo Bills — Darron Lee (LB, Ohio State)
#18 Chicago Bears — Mackensie Alexander (CB, Clemson)
#19 New York Jets — Reggie Ragland (LB, Alabama)
#20 Pittsburgh Steelers — Kendall Fuller (CB, Virginia Tech)
#21 Washington — Michael Thomas (WR, Ohio State)
#22 Seattle Seahawks — Eric Striker (LB, Oklahoma)
#23 Houston Texans — Jared Goff (QB, California)
#24 Indianapolis Colts — Ronnie Stanley (T, Notre Dame)
#25 Kansas City Chiefs — Germain Ifedi (T, Texas A&M)
#26 Green Bay Packers — Adolphus Washington (DE, Ohio State)
#27 Minnesota Vikings — De’Runnya Wilson (WR, Mississippi State)
#28 Arizona Cardinals — Ezekiel Elliott (RB, Ohio State)
#29 Cincinnati Bengals — A’Shawn Robinson (DT, Alabama)
#30 Denver Broncos — Andrew Billings (DT, Baylor)
#31 Carolina Panthers — Tyler Boyd (WR, Pittsburgh)
So why Eric Striker?
The Seahawks’ offensive line has improved in recent weeks. If that progression continues, perhaps it increases the likelihood of Russell Okung and J.R. Sweezy being re-signed? Continuity is key to an offensive line. Having lived through the growing pains with this unit, blowing it up and starting again would probably lead to a similar slump at the start of 2016.
If the Seahawks also make the playoffs it makes it increasingly difficult to get at the top offensive linemen in this class. Picking at #22 keeps them away from the top four. Ronnie Stanley is one of the most overrated players in the 2016 class. Watch him rugby tackle Clemson’s Shaq Lawson from behind after a whiffed block a few weeks ago:
That's Shaq Lawson torching Ronnie Stanley with a spin move off the edge. #Clemson #NFLDraft pic.twitter.com/P7WQ8sPy93
— GamNFLscout (@gamscout) October 7, 2015
There’s a real lethargy to Stanley’s pass protection. He’s stiff. He doesn’t punish anyone in the run game or offer anything at the second level. It’s astonishing how much praise he gets compared to Auburn’s Shon Coleman.
If they do pay Okung and Sweezy — with a veteran center addition also a possibility — it’ll increase the likelihood of Bruce Irvin moving on. Kevin Pierre-Louis struggled in relief this year and finding an answer to that role is pretty underrated.
Irvin developed into quite the playmaker in 2014 and it’s something they’ve lacked since he got injured this year. I’m not sure his summer weight gain — probably to try and improve his power in the pass rush ahead of free agency — had the greatest impact.
Striker won’t be considered a first rounder on many boards. We also know the Seahawks do things differently — so I’ll make the case here for why he might be a nice option for them.
For starters he’s a terrific athlete. He lacks Irvin’s size (he’s listed at 6-1 and 223lbs) but he’s excelled in a similar role for the Sooners. He lines up at outside linebacker and splits snaps between rushing at the LOS and dropping in coverage/playing run support. Striker has exceptional first-step quickness and is constantly around the ball. He never takes a snap off. The end result? A fantastic, productive career.
This season he has 7.5 sacks. His 22 career sacks in three seasons is the most ever by an Oklahoma linebacker. He explodes off the edge, winning with pure speed. Often when he moves up to the line it messes with the protection because they need to cover him and a running back won’t cut it. He’s equally adept dropping into coverage and just plays with an incredible intensity.
Watch this video and tell me he doesn’t feel ‘Seahawky’:
The lack of size doesn’t bother me because his suddenness and intensity (plus production) make up for it. I’d compare the situation to Tyler Lockett last year. Not a big guy — but his character, production and speed made him the prospect they had to have (thus, the trade up).
#22 is a tough range to draft in. On Tuesday we discussed how many first round prospects there might be in this class and I settled on 18. If you’re not getting at the top guys, do they move down again and get the player they want? Could it be someone like Striker?
It would also free them up to consider other needs in rounds 2/3. They could still add an offensive lineman like Adam Bisnowaty (who, I’ll keep saying, looks like an Evan Mathis type and should kick inside to guard in the NFL) a cornerback (Zack Sanchez at Oklahoma?) or a running back (Paul Perkins at UCLA? Alex Collins at Arkansas?).
I’ve also spent a lot of time reviewing certain prospects in the last few days. One player I was very tempted to include in this mock — and probably should’ve included — is Notre Dame receiver Will Fuller. Suddenness, fluid routes, safe hands, deep speed and production. I had him down as a second rounder. He could easily end up in the first.
Based on number of tackles I think the linebackers are extremely important. So I would fully support another linebacker. However that brings us back to the Seahawks old policies on offensive line which really have not worked well. We know they need better players on the offensive line. Whatever gains they have made will be lost in the off season, as they have been lost every summer for three years. Continuity is a good idea when you have great players, but not with this bunch. They need to draft great (or at least average) offensive players.
So we are sitting there at 22 and maybe there won’t be a great tackle. Maybe trading down is a decent idea – though that hasn’t worked that well for the Seahawks. Nor has their standard trade away the first draft pick because apparently there are no good players left in the first round. It is time to get real. If there are no good offensive tackles then pick a guard or a center. If you really want to pick up loose change then trade down a few times and maybe there will still be someone acceptable in that range. Bolster the inside of the offensive line so we don’t have blitzers pancaking RW up the middle. Or as has been suggested pick a tackle and play them next to Okung until Okung suffers an injury and then move them over to left tackle.
I think the point has been lost along the way here, Alaska. The top offensive lineman are gone. There isn’t an offensive lineman I would want to draft in that slot. The top ones are gone. That is why I went with Striker. We’ve talked a lot about going OL heavy in the draft and it was time to look at alternatives.
Rob- Hasn’t that been the downfall of the Seahawks offensive line thinking? There isn’t an offensive lineman they want to draft at that spot. And the outcome is that in the last 4 drafts we have a #1 round pick who is ending his contract and a #2 round pick who hasn’t really found a spot on the team. The rest are late round picks and UDFA or just FA. It is a rag tag group and it shows.
I get where you are coming from in wanting a difference maker as the #1 pick. I even agree with you. But it still doesn’t negate a failing policy in picking mid to late round offensive linemen. It makes me sick to watch Rothlesburger stand behind a solid line for 5 or 6 seconds. How are the Seahawks going to attain that level of offensive performance?
Okay so you don’t like picking at #22. Trade down, move the second round up in the trade. Get two offensive linemen at the top of the second round. The tackles are already picked over so take a guard and a center. Or take two guards. I don’t care. Just make a couple high quality picks in the early rounds.
You’re missing the point of the mock Alaska.
This is a mock that represents a scenario where they invest free agent $$$$ in the O-line and the top prospects are off the board. It is purposely designed to consider a non-O-line scenario. If you expect every mock draft scenario on this blog to include taking an offensive lineman, you’re going to be disappointed between now and April.
The recent improvements of the o-line gives us more confidence in Tom Cable & Co’s ability to develop young raw talent. Using this confidence, I can see the logic in your mock, Rob.
Take the talent that is is under contract next year: Britt, Lewis, Gilliam, Glowinski, Sikoli, etc. Add to that a few veteran pieces and/or the resigning of Okung/Sweezy and you have the makings of a competitive group. Careful on the $$$ though.
As for Striker, I like him. You are right he looks like a Hawk. And while I don’t want to become Ruskell-esque, I am a believer that character goes a long way.
What do you think of the corner talent that will be available at #22? What would Fuller or Sutton look like in our scheme?
Sutton would be a fine fit based on his athleticism and play. We’ll need to check on his arm length. Fuller, for me, is a natural cover corner. Not sure he will have the length they look for. I really like this corner class overall. It’s hard to judge it regarding the Seahawks until we see the arm length (they like +33 inch).
I think it is still premature to pronounce the o-line sound, and sound enough to put other positions before it, or to go BPA, as if they had the luxury of BPA. This Hawks team is still a mystery, and we certainly we can’t predict too well at this point, but I have to bias towards AlaskaHawk’s view.
I also do not think an undersized sideline-to-sideline LB like Striker replaces Bruce Irvin. A DE/OLB hybrid is what they need. Or better yet, re-sign him.
Striker isn’t a sideline-to-sideline LB. He is an attack-dog pass rusher who can cover. He has 7.5 sacks this year and 22 in his career.
It’s worth exploring and I think it’s a realistic scenario, unfortunately. The OL prospects we could plug in for Russell are long gone here and Striker is available and something of a dark horse like Irvin was coming out of WV. The f.o. sees this coming and it factors into them resigning Okung and letting Irvin walk, something like Mitch Morse supposedly which didn’t work out, but..
I just don’t think this guy compares to Bruce Irvin outside of his size, which was Bruce’s worst quality. Bruce wasn’t just explosive he was off-the-charts explosive. His junior year he led the NCAA in sacks and his senior year he held his ground on a 3-man front and took on double teams all the time and still got more sacks than Striker last year. Which to me is a better metric than hurries, dvoa and so on because they sealed the deal.
Bruce’s measurables and college production were on another level and he’s really refined his game, great in coverage and sealing the edge now, seems like he could do more rushing the passer if they tried it. Striker’s talent aside, if our system can’t get Bruce sacks it’s hard to imagine we need a first rounder there. You can find guys to cover tight ends and make tackles later in the draft.
If Okung goes, which is likely, do we consider trading up for Coleman or someone like him? He may follow Aaron Donald and Todd Gurley who went a lot higher than they were projected in the early mock drafts.
I tend to agree with your sentiments on Striker here. The bulk of his playmaking ability, that has us even considering him this high, involves sacks and I just don’t see see him being a sack artist in our system and at his size. If he is there in round two or beyond I’d be interested as competition for KPL at WILL if Irvin moves on and we slide KJ over to SAM. But as a legit NFL pass rusher that warrants a first round grade, I just can’t fathom it at this point.
The reason Big Ben passed for darn near half a kilometer on us was because of our abysmal interior pass rush. He literally had all game to effortlessly step up into the middle of the pocket where there was no resistance at all, or roll out to his right as the edge rush was routinely redirected behind him. If we continue to generate zero interior pressure then we can expect more teams to pass for 400+ yards on us the rest of the way and neither Striker nor any other edge rusher will be able to generate many sacks.
It’s a big problem that should be a high draft priority. I don’t think it’s something we fix late in the draft or the back end of FA. I’m, rather keen on DeForest Buckner, simply because he by far the best player on a defense that is otherwise garbage. He is the only playmaker on that Oregon defense and opponents can scheme away from him, yet he still dominates. Because of this, I envision him being a better pro than a college player, especially in a defense like ours where he will be surrounded by other playmakers. I can also envision him making it into the twenties and if we pick there, he could definitely move inside provide much needed interior punch. I would even rather have A’Shawn Robinson over Striker if we are drafting in the twenties.
“The bulk of his playmaking ability, that has us even considering him this high, involves sacks and I just don’t see see him being a sack artist in our system and at his size.”
You mean like Wilson’s size prevents him from being a good QB?
Are you saying that size is irrelevant when evaluating a pass rusher? IMO, size affects different positions in different ways. Wilson ability to scramble and pass out of pocket combined with a strong running game offset his height. If you go ‘all in’ on Striker, you’re counting on his speed and technique, which may be negated by better NFL linemen, making him a bust.
No, I’m saying it’s best not to rule out whether a player can succeed based on size. Conventional thinking doesn’t always ring true.
As for the final sentence — the Seahawks like to focus on the qualities and upside of a player and not so much on the limitations. If we’re saying he has great speed and technique I suspect that’s what they will focus on.
No, I don’t mean that. A 220lb QB throwing over 300lb+ lineman and a 220 lb LB shedding the blocks of 300lb+ linemen are two different things, obviously. In order for him to continue his Oklahoma game in the NFL he will need to go to a zone-blitzing system where his pass rush will be more disguised, which will keep his small frame more free of blockers. That’s not us. Irvin – a smallish pass rusher himself – is a bigger, stronger, faster version of Striker, and if Irvin hasn’t flourished primarily as a stand-up pass rusher in our system, there is less chance Striker will.
None of this is to say I don’t think Striker is a good player or won’t be a good pro. I do contend, however, that his small sized is a mitigating factor at his position and will require that he go to the right system for him to be as good as the college player we see now. I don’t think our system is right for him.
You’re right, Carroll’s philosophy is well-known to favor length and size and our defense doesn’t have much history blitzing. Strikers been putting up steady numbers but 7 8 sacks isn’t pro bowl. Can he succeed where Bruce hasn’t and rush the qb at Sam? I wouldn’t bet a R1 on it but I get the intrigue. It would be nice to get some pressure from the linebackers.
It’s early days and while I like Striker, I don’t think you take him in R1 due to his limitations; heck our current strong safety is bigger than this guy. The fact is that you can get a similar, undersized player in later rounds (remember lavonte david?) or even have one on our roster (KPL?). Don’t forget other players will declare and expand the R1 pool
Nevertheless I’d prefer get a better value/impact position, a player with bigger upside, or generate pick value by:
Taking a DT in Robinson/Washington/Billings as one of these guys could be special a la Marcel Darius.
Taking a CB of the 5 going earlier who may slip down
Trading the pick to stockpile for 2017
Trading down and taking Bisnowatny or Dahl
The only thing about similar guys in the later rounds, they aren’t going to have the production that Striker does. While watching the highlight tape, for some reason he reminded me of TJ Ward.With his size and speed and ability to play in the box, on the LOS and in space, heck make him into our next SS. Although that would be much tougher for him to learn an entire new position.
Striker is not similar to KPL and in fairness Lavonte David went in round two and nobody would’ve complained in hindsight if he’d gone at #22.
As for the tackles — not one of them comes close to Marcel Darius. You’re unlikely to find a Dareus in the late first round of any draft.
Seems like Eli Harold type who went in R3?
Or more like Shazier in rd.1?
Striker isn’t anything like Eli Harold. Diffetent positions, different builds, different styles.
Teams passes on Harold, because they said he gave up on plays and didn’t give full effort. I’ve yet to see Striker take a play off in the 3 years I’ve watched him.
As much as I like Striker and think he’d be a great fit, I don’t see him being worth the #22 pick. If we go deep in the playoffs and draft another 8-10 rounds later, I could see us drafting him at the end of round 1. If they picked up at #22 I’d be fine with the pick and excited to see him play. I think they could probably trade down a few slots, get another 3rd or 4th rounder and still be able to draft him later in the 1st.
Rob where do you think Jayron Kearse will be drafted? I’ve been trying to find Kam’s replacement in this draft and he keeps coming up at the top of the list. I see him as a mid to late 2nd rounder. With Kam holding out and the issues it caused, and possibly holding out again next year when he’s having a sub par year, I don’t think he’d be around much longer. I think if he’d be available in the 3rd he’d be worth it. Unless of course PCJS find another diamond in the rough in the 5th round, but I think his replacement will need to be able to start day 1, unless they plan on keeping him around 1 more year than cutting him loose.
Could UW’s Travis Feeney play SS in the NFL? I know he’s played as a LB & DB in his career. He could be groomed as Kam’s backup maybe as an UDFA (health).
V12 mentioned that he may have a degenerative shoulder problem though which would scratch that idea. From the Seattle Times:
“He has a history of shoulder issues. During his UW career, he has torn the labrum in his left shoulder twice and torn the labrum in his right shoulder once, require four surgeries.”
No way. Hasn’t played DB since HS and didn’t exactly look natural doing it.
I think Kearse is wildly overrated and wouldn’t draft him personally.
I thought this was interesting, from odd shark:
Seattle isn’t quite the same team this season as it’s been over the last couple, but it might be coming around, going 4-1 straight up and 3-2 against the spread over its last five games after outlasting Pittsburgh last week 39-30 and covering as a three-point home favorite. The Seahawks trailed the Steelers late in the third quarter 21-14 but scored 25 points over the last 18 minutes, icing the game on quarterback Russell Wilson’s fifth touchdown toss of the day, an 80-yard catch-and-run hookup with Doug Baldwin from a 3rd-and-10 situation.
On the day Seattle outrushed Pittsburgh 100 yards to 58 and made four picks, including one out of a Steelers fake field goal that led to the Seahawks’ first touchdown.
Seattle is now outrushing opponents 144 yards per game to 93, and outrushing foes by 50 yards per game is usually a good way to cover spreads. At 6-5 the Seahawks are tied with Atlanta for the second NFC wild-card spot and own the tiebreaker.
I think it interesting that the running game is improving. Rawls and the offensive line are slowly turning the corner.
“I think it interesting that the running game is improving. Rawls and the offensive line are slowly turning the corner”
The crux of the season has been the OL play. It has improved exponentially from the first quarter of the season. The play calling scheme has also improved since the bye week to make it easier on the OL in the passing game, with quicker drop backs and keeping in a RB or TE to help more often. Judging from what PC and Cable have to say the communication since Lewis has stepped in has been the biggest difference in the improved OL play. It takes time to gel up front and we are now reaping the benefits just in time for the stretch run. Go Hawks!
I honestly think that going Oline early is still something the Hawks should do regardless of how the oline is clicking. While Okung is good when healthy, it’s the when healthy part that scares me. Just hoping he doesn’t have someone land on his ankles this year. Get an actual T/G/C not a Dline convert. I like Joe Dahl as a swing or potentially a C. The guy was playing G and calling out protections I believe this year or last. Don’t know where he could go but he’s someone I’d want..Think they should double up on OL this year.
1. OL
2. DL
3.RB
3.OL/WR
4.WR/OL
5.DB
6.LB
7.DB
7.DL
Now Davis hsu RTd a article that actually shows we don’t get a comp pick for o’brien schofield so we’re at 9 apparently.
Obviously are draft will be influenced on how are FA goes and how guys like terry Poole and glowinski progress so there’s that.
“I honestly think that going Oline early is still something the Hawks should do regardless of how the oline is clicking.”
I would agree. But this projection is examining a scenario where you invest money and resources in the line and the top O-line prospects are off the board.
“I honestly think that going Oline early is still something the Hawks should do regardless of how the oline is clicking. ”
I would not favor that. I would much rather do one of two things:
1. Move up to get one early
2. Move to where the tier 2 guys should go
I definitely would not want us to stand pat and just take a tier 2 guy that early when there are some special players to be had that we’d pass on.
If you’re picking in the 17-25 range — that’s a dangerous spot to be picking. Runs on talent can and do thin the pool to the point where you’re really picking a guy too early. When you’re talking about R1, that’s really dangerous. Because the likelihood is pretty high that you’re passing on a player who is talented enough to play day 1 and is very likely worth extending on his final year.
Striker to me seems like one of those caliber of players. He is sudden. Impactful. Makes football plays as Knox liked to say. Size be damned, he finishes on the field and that’s a quality that you don’t coach up.
If the draft shaped up like that, I think I’d have thrown Sheldon Day’s hat into the ring. Of all of the tier 2 (Washington/Robinson/Billings/Jones/Day) DTs, he’s the one I see as the best by a long shot. I actually see him as significantly better than Buckner who is kind of the tail of tier 1 by most mocks/boards I’ve seen.
In this mock I’d prefer us taking a DT either Washington, Robinson or Billings or trading down.
I’m a big fan of Striker’s playmaking abilities, versatility and relentlessness, but feel like we could make a trade down to get him. Like the video says he has an explosive first step off the ball, and is great at the dip and rip around the edge. Looking at some tape the speed rush is the only move I’ve seen him use. At 6′ 225lb-or any size for that matter- the lack of pass rushing moves is a concern, even with the impressive speed and explosion that he has. Would love to see him on the Hawks, just think pick 22 is a bit early.
Looking at potential Irvin replacements one stands out to me and that’s Leonard Floyd. At this point in time Floyd is more of an athlete than football player-like Irvin was when drafted. At 6’3-4″ 245lbs with great length and big time, not elite, athleticism the ceiling is very high with Floyd. He lines up all over the field for Georgia rushing the passer,with an arsenal of moves-speed rush with nice dip and rip, with a counter inside, spin move and uses his hands pretty well to get off blocks-drops into zone coverage and plays some man coverage on TE’s, RB’s and slot WR’s. Floyd doesn’t have the nose to the ball or motor that Striker has-few do-and does look a bit lost in space at times, but he’s a very intriguing athlete. I’ve seen some comparisons of Floyd to Barkevious Mingo, which I do not agree with. The frame and athleticism are similar(good things), but Floyd is a more polished and accomplished player.IMO Thoughts on Floyd?
Not a fan of Floyd. Never really impacts games. Loads of upside and not enough production. Could be another Maybin or Mingo.
Striker is an OLB who rushes the edge as an extra rusher. He’s not lining up at DE. The speed rush is the only rush he needs.
Rob- you’re right Floyd rarely has a big impact on games. Looking back the the college stats they are similar to Mingo. I do think Leonard is a more well rounded pass rusher than Mingo at this stage though. Was looking at Floyd in the early-mid 2nd round -not top 10 like Mingo, Maybin and Dion Jordan-so the bust aspect would be less crippling. In 2-3 years he could be a force a la Barr or could be mired on the bench somewhere.
Again I’m a big fan of Striker and do think he’s very Seahawky. He’s got the motor, grit and makes the splash plays that we tend to target. I don’t fully agree that a speed rush is all he needs, would like to see him be able to use his hands to get off blocks better…shorter arms could be an issue. It’s the value at #22 I have a question with. A small trade back could help facilitate a trade back up in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, while still securing Striker. Guess I’m splitting hairs because I’d be happy to get him where ever. Looking forward to seeing how he’s used in the Senior Bowl and of course his combine performance and measureables.
I’m with matt. A guy too light to use anything other than a speed rush but who can chase down guys in space? Don’t we already have one of those guys in Cassius Marsh? So if we are taking a special teamer at #22, not great.
Of that mock, for the guys going after 22, I’d prefer Ifedi, Elliott, Robinson, Billings and Boyd.
Striker bends the edge, rounds the arc, and uses leverage better than any LEO I’ve seen in this class.
It’s not a good year for LEO’s anyways. 2017 on the other hand looks to be loaded at that particular position.
I see Striker as this years Honey badger. He has great effort and can contribute, but a tweener size. Most useful in the secondary or as extra linebacker on passing downs. I do think he is worth a pick, but that would be in the third round. There are other more athletic projects to fill in for Irvin.
I agree. The Hawks do not really draft guys with the intent of putting them straight into the starting lineup. They look at what they can become in a couple of years with good coaching. The list of late round and UDFA’s that have made the starting lineup and become stars is staggering. DeShawn Shead is just the latest project that made good. Frank Clark and Tyler Locket, as good as they are, play sparingly. IMO, Striker’s size limits his development. A guy taken that high needs to be closer to the finished product. Instead of looking for holes in our starting lineup, it might make more sense to examine our practice squad for clues about where they will draft.
And yet in a re-draft Tyrann Mathieu goes firmly in round one.
Yep! I’m betting that Rob has taken Striker’s lack of size into consideration when he watched film on him and has been convinced that Striker’s skills/abilities will still make him a good/great player in the NFL. Those that really feel that Striker’s size will be a detriment (a valid concern) should post links showing where Striker’s smaller size made him less effective in game situations.
Also, though Shead’s performance in the Steelers game was promising, the jury’s still out on whether he’ll be a viable long-term #2 CB in our D. Here’s hoping he proves it in the next 5 games!
Rob
There are a couple of players in the draft that just scream Seahawk and Striker is definitely one of them. The comp top Locket is perfect. Incredible leader, great personality consistent high end productivity. He would thrive in the Seahawks environment.
I still am praying for Coleman but if he is off the board I think Striker is a great fit and frees up the cash we would spend on Irvin to invest in some veteran OL help. Might even be able to trade down into the early 2nd and pick up another 3rd round pick and still get him.
Either way I would be happy with the pick. He and Sua Cravens are both kind of tweeners that I really like regardless.
Rob what are your thoughts on Noah Spence. If he checks out in interviews and the drug issues are behind him is he someone the Hawks might target as a Leo. Seems to fit the bill physically.
I wouldn’t be interested personally. Too much baggage. Never really bought into the hype during his Ohio State days.
Rob, in this scenario, there are some strong prospects from #25-31. You would pass on Stanley and Ifedi, and D linemen. Zeke Elliott would be a BPA pick, but boy, he would be tremendous.
Yes I would pass on Stanley, Ifedi and the DLers left. I think the Seahawks would too.
It would be hard to pass up (on a BPA basis) arguably the top RB in the draft in Elliott, if he is there.
Not with the depth at RB in this class.
Elliot could be a franchise caliber back though don’t you agree? even though there is depth, we need a franchise back to replace marshawn with Rawls as the depth on roster.
I like Zekey Elliott. Tough runner, plenty of speed. Very versatile. But the Seahawks are getting production out of UDFA Thomas Rawls and if Lynch moves on, they just need to find a relief man for Rawls or create a RBBC. They don’t need a guy who ultimately replaces Rawls to become a franchise back. Spending a R1 pick on Elliott for me would be a major missed opportunity to improve other greater needs. Especially given the depth at RB (you can get a good one in R3 IMO). Still, they might draft another Buckeye in R1 🙂
Never take a RB in round 1 unless you have a letter from God that he IS the next AP. In fact, I am not a fan of taking a RB until RD 4.
Love Striker. He actually reminds me of Von Miller. A guy that I keep thinking is too small for his position but keeps being in the middle of every play.
“keeps being in the middle of every play.”
Sums up Striker perfectly. He’s always around the ball.
Von Miller was 25 lbs. heavier when he came out. Think too often Striker will be in the middle of plays getting washed out by tight ends and/or pulling guards. I think if you are looking at R1 you want a guy you can pencil in at a starting spot in your base defense, not a situational guy.
Is this along the same lines as Russell Wilson being too short to play QB?
How often does Striker get washed out for Oklahoma?
Rob, you mentioned some of the teams like Dallas and Blatimore, who will be picking high due to injury affected season.
What chance to do you see of one of these teams trading their pick for a 2017 first rounder?
If Bosa goes off the board, could they trade it and attempt to get Myles Garrett next year?
Especially Dallas, as they effectively got 3 1st round talents this year. With Gregory and Collins not being picked in the 1st round due to circumstances.
It’ll be very difficult to manufacture a trade like that IMO. For starters, you’d be banking on the team you trade with picking in the top 3-4 next year.
I’m not sure he’ll even be on many 3rd round boards, never mind 1st
He’s a top 100 lock, worst case scenario.
I agree. He will intrigue the hell out of some-one… I’m thinking Patriots, Steelers, Cardinals and maybe even the Panthers. He is a very unique chess pc, which many a DC would love to tinker with for sub blitz packages.
I think that’s an over-exaggeration.
Striker certainly has talent. But at 222 lbs with a frame that cannot handle much more weight, he is more likely to replace Morgan or KPL than Irvin. In a SLB you need bulk to handle the TE’s. Irvin has put on a few lbs and is better for it. He is now up to 260. I expect him to be re-signed. I cannot see using a first round pick on a guy that is not a 3 down lineman in the NFL. Teams would run at Striker too much if he lines up at SLB on first and second down.
As far as the O Line is concerned, we have five centers. In addition to Nowak, Lewis and Jeanpierr, we have Sokoli who is working at Guard and Center and Will Pericak, a 300 lb DL convert is on the practice squad. Since, the OL has performed much better since Lewis assumed the center duties, I expect they will let them battle it out. The Tackle position will probably get some depth in the draft. I am not expecting a R1 pick to be used there. They should be able to find a RT candidate in R3 and if they stay true to form will take a conversion project in R7 or as an UDFA.
KJ can play the strong side if Striker is drafted.
“I cannot see using a first round pick on a guy that is not a 3 down lineman in the NFL.”
Exactly what people said about Irvin in 2012.
The argument is somewhat valid. You could say that Irvin hasn’t had 1st rd production. I still think he would have made it to early rd 2.
You can’t see Seattle using a pick on a guy that isn’t a 3 down lineman, than why draft a 2 down DT first overall?
OK, this annoys me more than it should, because most of the time it doesn’t really prevent clarity in what you mean and is little worse than unnecessary. Here, however, there is room for confusion. Why exactly do you use the word overall so damn much? To me that term is reserved for use relative to entire draft and never just within a team’s draft.
I do love pretty much all your contributions and only comment so little because I’m much lazier than some of you guys.
He’s 6’1 you say? Too short to play linebacker. Probably a bust just like Elvis Dumervil (5’11) , Thomas Davis Jr. (6’1), AJ Hawk, (6’1) and Bobby Wagner (6’0).
Perfect Seahawk first round candidate.
Not to mention Navorro Bowman (6’0)
Levantea David is 6’1…
Personally I think trading the first round pick to get him is a good idea, maybe trade down to the top 20 picks in the second, and pick up an extra fourth rounder.
If Striker is #1, with a trade down… I can see:
2. Eric Striker
2. LeRaven Clark/Sebastian Tretola/ Jason Spriggs – Oliner
3. Chris Jones
3c. Adam Bisnowaty
4t. Fourth round corner selection.
4. Jordan Howard, RB
5. Joel Heath, DT
6, 7, 7c – Safety, fullback (Tukuafu and Coleman both free agents), Tight End
Convert Busnowaty to guard / swing tackle
That’s great
Bruce Irvin isn’t even a SAM LB. He’s an OTTO.
No complaints from me. Love everything about Eric Striker. Size be damned. Pass rushing wise, he’s Elvis Dumervil in Malcom Smith’s body. You don’t have to put your hand in the dirt to play the SAM position anyways. Seattle is sorely lacking a guy like this.
If all the top tier O-lineman are off the board, why fight it? Then your just forcing the issue. Sure they need some help on the O-line, but I’m really liking the way the end of the 2nd round looks to be shaping up in terms of O-lineman.
This sounds highly reminiscent of SEA’s 2012 first round pick – a relative under-the-radar prospect who was seen as a one-dimensional pass rush specialist and taken higher than most draftniks would have mocked. But that pick worked out pretty well.
The difference is Striker is a more complete player than Irvin was at that stage. Maybe part of that was Irvin playing 5T most of the time. But not completely. Striker is just a more complete player.
And a better OTTO prospect.
Also, there’s no comparison to KPL, who’s more SPARQed up athlete than football player.
CHawk, I know you agree and get it, so this is more of me just agreeing and pointing something out.
But, it’s unfortunate, because people wanna pigeon hole prospects. LB’s come in all shapes and sizes.
It’s like Bruce Irvin is listed as a SAM, but that doesn’t mean only guys built like him can play that position. KJ Wright is a 6’4, 250 pound WILL’ backer, Donte’ Hightower is a 270 pound WILL.
So I totally get it man. Built like KPL Striker is, but nothing like him.
We were discussing S. Carolina WR Pharoh Cooper the other day. This is Pharoh Cooper on a budget.
Oregon WR Bralon Addison-5’10, 190 lbs.: 58 rec, 775 yds, 10 TDs, 13.36 average, 17 rushes, 84 yds, 2 TDs, 1 PR TD, 1 passing TD.
All this after tearing his ACL last year. Has a ton of Pharoh Cooper and former VMAC visitor Josh Huff to his game. He’s sudden, tremendously quick feet, good route runner and run blocker, real ‘chippy,’ dude is tough as nails, hard to bring down, and full of grit. Maybe he doesn’t have a ton of size or enough of it, but he’s flat-out exciting/dynamic.
He’s gonna be a 4th-5th round steal IMO.
The likelihood of the Hawks picking Striker @ 22 would be slim. The role he would play with the Hawks will be roaming @ Will on passing dns. A role such as that would be 2nd Rd selection for a more realistic value pick. I would expect them to trade dn if the value was not there at the 22-30 range and pick up Striker or Yannick in the high 2nd Rd. It would be a reach for Striker @ 22.
White from LSU & Fuller of Notre Dame are both returning for their senior year and not available.
And Cal WR Kenny Lawler may be going pro. Very hit and miss, but dude has a ton of natural talent.
PAC 12 has been very kind to Seattle. Ecspecially at WR. They got 5 of ’em on the roster.
And now that I’m thinking about it, Ty Montgomery and Vince Mayle were VMAC visitors this year, Austin Hill was an UDFA, and last year (2014) Brandin Cooks and Josh Huff also were brought to the VMAC.
Surely not a coincidence.
I like Striker a lot. He is a really fun LB to watch, and there is something definitively Seahawk-y about him. I have a bit of a hard time wondering how he lines up. He looks like a classic WILL, but does things a SAM does on the edge. Given the irony that RW3 is one of my favorite Hawks of all time, I am feeling a bit of the Size King impulse when looking at Striker. How does that size hold up seeing the edge against NFL talent. Which kind of makes him more of a WILL that can rush, which is fine, but I get the vibe Carroll loves KJ at WILL, even though KJ looks more like a natural SAM. Go figure. Wouldn’t surprise if the Seahawks went in this direction. Though, though stuff seeing them pass on Billings, Robinson, and Washington. But that’s me, and my need for DT.
He’s a guy that fits Seattle. Their defense is predicated on keeping their LBs clean. They don’t ask alot out of their DTs.
That’s a really good way of putting it: until they find their pocket-busting 3T, SEA almost uses their interior DLs to block for the LBs who make the plays.
They’re certainly doing that this year, more so than recent, most reminiscent of when Mebane was playing next to Colin Cole. Pete Carroll has always used a DT that penetrates the B gap. Calling Rubin a penetrating DT is definite stretch. Even Branch and McDaniel showed an ability with their power and length. I’m sure when Pete Carroll draws up his ideal scenario for his famed 4-3 he drew from Bud Grant and Monte Kiffin, he thought to himself, “You know what, self? Instead of having a disruptive front line, I want my LBs to play clean. I’m just going to get two slow moving mountains of mass in the middle who don’t play behind much on the offense’s line of scrimmage so my LB’s can make plays… and occasionally miss tackles” Kind of think if he has a chance to improve in that area of the D, he most likely would.
Every LB in the NFL occasionally misses tackles.
And PC probably doesn’t say ‘let’s draft a DT and invest a ton of capital on a prospect, when cheap, veteran FAs, and mid round picks can do the same thing.’
It’s not every year that pass rushing DTs come along. It’s the hardest position to find other than a good QB.
First of all, I’m not knocking the idea of Striker to Seattle. I like the player, but entertain me some:
What mid round DT pick has worked out for this team outside of Jordan Hill (if you want to call him a mid rounder as a late 3d round pick) under the Carroll era, and “did the same thing?” Former 4th round Jaye Howard, who turned out to be a good player in KC after they cut him for Hill. 5th rounder Jesse Williams? 5th round Jimmy Staton? Late round picks Lavarius Levingston and Gregg Scruggs if you want to include them as DT/DE types?
How is a high round rookie salary a ton of capital now a days after the most recent CBA?
They brought Tony McDaniel in cheep, but as I seem to remember it, his eventual starting position wasn’t given right off the bat, but when it was clear Jesse Williams was raw as hell and his knees weren’t ready. In fact, Pete Carroll thought so highly of big #99 going into the season, he called him “McPherson” or something like that in the press.
Alan Branch was on a 2 year deal and wasn’t dirt cheep. He was the best base down 3 tech they landed
They traded a 7th rounder for Clinton McDonald, but after he finally exploded (after they cut him only to bring him back), they let him walk. That’s what cheap gets you.
Kevin Williams wasn’t a dirt cheap deal.
How are pass rushing DT’s so hard to find? Fletcher Cox would be a pretty decent rush DT in a 4-3, mid first rounder. Ditto for Corey Luiget. Sharif Floyd was a late first rounder, not a bad player at all. Kawann Short was a 2d round pick with some question marks and blemishes, he’s one of the best in the game now. Stephen Paea was a 2d round pick and evolved nicely in the last couple years with the Bears as a pass rusher with speed and power. Jonathan Hankins was former 2d rounder, 7 sacks last year shows his worth. Jurrell Casey was a 3rd rounder, love to see him on this line. Mike Daniels who would be a DT in a 4-3 was a 4th round pick, and I’m pretty sure would be pretty explosive inside. Geno Atkins was a 4th rd pick.
Could it be possible that if you want have have a solid DT on your roster, you draft the position higher than round 5, and make it a priority, and develop the guy? Or pony up a bit in free agency where, to get a good one that will cost more salary cap capital than a the drafted and developed player?
Seattle has gotten by on their DT’s in the past, but their depth is at a all time low. They caught lightning in a bottle with Clinton McDonald in 2013, but let him go, probably thinking they had a similar player in Jordan Hill, but Jordan Hill is not similar, not this year. Jordan Hill was showing something last year, but this year has been a let down, and injuries continue being an issue
So, AJ Francis is now on the active roster. Are you excited about that as much as I am?
Also, guess what? These DT’s and LBs are going to get a heavy dose of AP this weekend. Do you know the yards per carry his average is in 4th quarter of games this year? A staggering 7.5 yards per carry. Holy Running Bulls, Batman. So, if the story line is how AP ran wild and busted up this D on Sunday, and they were tired in the 4th, and they don’t win, tell me again how great the philosophy is about “cheap vets, and mid round picks” are working out for this team.
Again, love Striker, he would be an very interesting player to see how Carroll and Richard would tend to use him, but this team need DT. There’s no understating that, IMO.
Ngata having a nice game.
I didn’t say anything about you liking or disliking Striker. Look, you can argue this with me until your blue in the face, but they have a model in a place. It’s what they do. Just like drafting CB’s in the 4th-5th rounds, just like the DL have to have 32″ inch arms, etc. When they take an average, run stuffer, which is what all these ‘great DTs’ this year are, I’ll be shocked. Just like you are over the fact they seem to find DTs quite ‘meh.’
Where are these great DTs? All those guys you listed are nice complimentary pieces, except for Geno Atkins. Not one will destroy everything up front. There’s no Aaron Donald’s in this class.
They passed on Paea, Cox, Floyd, Short, and Hankins for a reason. BTW, Atkins, Daniels, Casey, they weren’t early selections, so I’m a bit confused.
Like I said, I’m all for Seattle taking a DT. Yes their depth is at a low, but I believe run stuffers aren’t nor should be high draft picks.
Atkins, Daniels, and Casey are pass rushing DTs found in mid rounds, though, lending to my implication that finding a DT that pass rushes isn’t quite so elusive as your making it sound. If you are talking about destroying up front like in the realm of Cortez Kennedy, okay, very rare to find, but trust me, they, along with along with Paea, Cox, Floyd, Short, a healthy Hankins would be a major upgrade to what they presently have inside on this roster.
They don’t need Cortez Kennedy (well, yes they do, but very hard to find, right/), they need a young DT that is balanced with speed and strength to split the B gab, be disruptive, push the pocket, get off his blocks well enough to play the run well, and show the ability to generate 4 to 6 sacks on a regular annual basis. All the DT’s I’ve listed have this ability, while Hankins is more a NT, he would be the 3 tech next to Bane.
Every DT has to be disruptive in some way or they wouldn’t be in the NFL. Whether that’s pushing a poket, clogging up run lanes, taking on double teams to allow your athletic playmaking LBs stop the run, shooting gaps. It’s all disruption.
Saying a DT needs to be disruptive is kind of like saying a WR needs to catch the ball.
Within that model, blitzing LB’s are not a major feature of the scheme. It’s just not what they do. Being a freaky athletic, undersized pass rusher was Irvin’s one and only big calling card going into the draft, yet where has Irvin found the most success in our system? As a LB where his freaky athleticism is more utilized in coverage than in pass rushing. (Granted, at WVU he had his hand in the ground as an edge rushing down lineman rather than a LB in space, but it is arguable he was out of position in that capacity.) We never adjusted our scheme to fit what he did best in college. He conformed to fit us.
I wouldn’t disagree so much that Striker can not be a good NFL blitzing LB, prima facie. In a system like like Steelers or even the Patriots, Striker could be the type of player that we see in Oklahoma. My disagreement is more with the notion that he could be that type of player in our system. It may very well be true that we desperately need his skill set. But just like we desperately needed Jimmy as a dominant red zone and third down target, we never used him in a way that maximized those abilities. He ultimately just wound up “fitting into our offensive scheme”, as Bevell said to start the season more than our scheme adjusting to take advantage of his abilities. I think Striker would suffer a similar fate in our defense.
Striker isn’t a blitzing linebacker. He’s an OTTO.
Semantics. My understanding of an OTTO is a strong side LB that sets the edge on run downs and blitzes on passing downs. So it’s not necessarily inaccurate to describe what Striker does as a blitzing LB, and my point stands.
A linebacker doesn’t have to be blitzing to rush the passer.
“How are pass rushing DT’s so hard to find?”
Hardest position to draft for in the NFL. Possibly more so than QB.
The great ones obviously stand out in college. They go early. There might only be 6-7 top DT’s in the NFL at rushing the passer.
There isn’t anyone in this class who rushes the passer consistently well in college from the DT position.
At the NFL level, it seems there are many DTs in the second tier that are maddeningly inconsistent. (see Hill, Jordan)
Rob, when I look at this roster, and then compare to rosters around the league, I see many teams that have pretty good inside rushers, many have more than one player that can do that. I don’t think the position is that elusive. If you are comparing the inside production to edge rushers, edge rushers should get more sacks than the inside guys. The good inside rush guys not only collect sacks, but harass QB’s into the edge rush. Seattle doesn’t have that compared to many other teams.
Go on then. List me ten quality inside rushers.
I’m not trying to be obtuse. I’ve written many articles on this position and why it’s hard to draft for.
Sorry man, but the pass rushing DTs you listed other than Geno Atkins are all fools gold.
Suh, Donald, Richardson, Dareus, Richardson, Atkins and potentially Easley are the only legit inside pass rushers
Surely! I appreciate your time and effort writing those articles, enjoy your page. I’ve seen a lot of football in my life, DT’s are near and dear to me, as it was a position I played in a much younger life. It’s the position I watch most closely when I view any ol’ game. I think it can be possible we see “quality” under different gazes, but here is what I see on Sundays.
First the establishment;
Aaron Donald: 7 sacks last year, 9 this year, thus far.
Sheldon Richardson: 15 career sacks thus far.
Muhammad Wilkerson: 32.5 career sacks since 2011
Ndamukong Suh; 40 career sacks since 2010
Gerald McCoy: 33.5 sacks since 2010
Marcell Dareus: 30.5 sacks since 2011
Fletcher Cox: 18 sacks since 2012
Mike Daniels: 18 sacks since 2012
Corey Liuget: 21 sacks since 2011
Jurell Casey: 26 sacks since 2011
The young upward trenders:
Kawann Short: 3.5 sacks last year, 6 on the current year, thus far.
Tryone Crawford: 3 sacks last year, 4 sacks this year, thus far. Like this guy.
Stephen Tuitt: 4.5 sacks on the year in this is second year.
Malcolm Brown: 3 sacks thus far as a rookie. That’s encouraging for the Pats
Sharrif Floyd: Injured a bit this year. 4.5 sacks year and lead the league in QB hurries for a DT.
Timmy Jernigan: Quietly doing nice stuff. 4 sacks last year, 3 this year, so far.
Solid productive vets:
Sen’derrick Marks rounded into a solid player for the Jags, 8.5 sack last year, 4 the year before. His season was cut short this year
Desmond Bryant usually hoovers around 5 sack per season as a 3 down player.
Stephen Paea matured in a solid pass rushing 3 tech for the Bears last year with 6 sacks as a starter, and weirdly signed with the Racial Slurs to play out of position in their 3-4
Michael Brockers can rush for a big base down player, 13.5 sacks since 2012
Solid Older vets
Kyle Williams: 10.5 sacks last year, 5 sacks the year before.
Randy Starks has average 4.5 sacks between 2008 and 2014, pretty steady for a guy who plays 3 downs, probably mostly run down now.
Henry Melton had 5 sacks for the Cowpokes last year, and is playing behind McCoy in Tampa. Not my favorite player, but wouldn’t surprise me if he had another season or 2 like that in him for another team.
I could list a bunch of guys I would enjoy seeing play here in Seattle. When I look at the rosters league wide, I would put Santa Clara, Atlanta, Indy, Oakland and Seattle as top teams that will and should be in the DT market come next offseason.
I think we need to establish first of all what constitutes an interior pass rusher. Some of the guys listed here are not interior pass rushers. Stephen Paea for example is a classic run stuffer. I know the Seahawks liked him in 2011 but never intended to draft him, in part because of the range he was going to go in and their needs on the O-line. Corey Liuget is used as a 3-4 DE. Stephon Tuitt the same. Marks has one great year in his career and zero consistency. Bryant is another DE. Brockers is a run stopper first and foremost not a pass rusher (was the same at LSU). Wilkerson is a DE who might be able to move inside. Daniels is a DE.
Randy Starks, bless him, has been a personal favourite for years but he’s on the downside of his career. Melton is a JAG these days.
Malcom Brown is not an established interior pass rusher. It’s way too soon to judge him. Timmy Jernigan isn’t very good IMO. And Floyd has done very little to justify his first round investment.
There’s a difference between just listing lots of DT’s and actually listing those that are good, interior pass rushers.
And this is the point. Of your list only Donald, Suh, McCoy, Dareus, Richardson, Cox and Casey fit the bill. I would add Geno Atkins to the list. And that’s pretty much it. Now think of some of the other positions in the NFL where you could reel off top players?
It’s incredibly difficult to draft for this position and if anything, this collection of names proves the point.
I think I can state, with reasonable certainty, with Liuget, Bryant, Wilkerson, Daniels and Tuitt would most likely be DTs in a 43 under front. Bryant was a DT in Oakland, and it was probably a better front for him to play in. I think this is honestly splitting hairs territory.
My understanding of Paea, in what I have read, is that he actually graded out better as a pass rusher in Chicago than a run player, but got better against the run as he got more reasoned.
I would stand by this list that these are DTs that can rush, thus making them good pass rushing DTs.
When it gets beyond the elite and we look a decent players, we can all have our opinions on the Jerrigans and Floyds, but like I defend RW3 to the odd nonbeliever that pokes holes in his game, there is a lot of football to be played yet for these boys. Many D-linemen don’t fully hit their stride until their 5 and 6th years, which, honestly is why I think JS/PC have tended to go the FA route most of the time, looking for players hovering after their first contract.
The elite are elite at any position, as are the good being good. Whether it’s QB, WR, RB, TE, OT, OG, C, DE, DT, LB, CB, S, P and K, and we can debate the strengths and limits of most of them that fall behind elite on all kinds of lists we create.
It’s not splitting hairs because the point is we don’t know how they would perform as interior pass rushers. They don’t play that role. There’s a difference between saying a guy would play DT in a 4-3 and knowing he can rush the passer consistently well at the position. Can we say with any certainty that Bryant would perform as a three-tech? Tuitt IMO has never been an interior pass rusher — he played DE at Notre Dame and always looked like a classic 5-tech.
I wanted the top interior pass rushers in the game and the list proves it. You admit yourself that Jernigan and Floyd aren’t at that level yet. There just aren’t that many really good interior pass rushers. It’s a very difficult position to hit on.
And looking at the 2016 crop — there aren’t going to be any names added to the list any time soon.
Rob, Desmond Bryant was the starting 3 tech DT for the Raiders by the time he left for free agency when the team shifted to the 4-3. Arguably, he had his best production at that spot. In fact, the Seahawks were quite interested in his services the same year they signed Bennett and Avril. JS volunteered in a press conference that he wished they had time to get him out to Seattle, but he signed quickly with the Browns. Daniels played DT in college and kicks to the 3 tech when the Pack goes nickel, and plays really well. Liuget was a DT in college, also kicks inside. It’s very fair to say Tuitt played 5 tech at ND, and continues to do so for the Steelers, but a lot of reports I followed about him noted that many scouts thought he could play 3 tech in a 4-3. Also, when we are talking about 5 techs in the eagle front the Steelers employee, they are actually very close to the 3 tech in the 43, in that they play the B gab responsibility. So, he does show 3 tech ability, under that principal. So, maybe we shouldn’t confuse 3-4 5 techs as outside guys quite so much.
As for Floyd, I think he’s up there. Leading the league in QB hurries last year at DT is a nice stat. If he’s not elite now, he could be well on his way.
I am willing to take in your assertion that you don’t feel the 2016 class isn’t offering much this year for pass rushing 3 techs. However, apparently the 12 sacks Daniels had as a senior at Iowa didn’t impress the scouts enough, as 32 missed on him in the first 3 rounds of his draft class, but the Pack ended up with a hell of a player. So, forgive me if I hold onto the thought that, “you never know.”
In terms of pure pass rushing, I find these clips more intriguing that the one featured above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vt7fyi3rA8
Striker gets around the edge fast, and someone who does that would greatly benefit the Seahawks. But I do wonder about his lack of size and weight. In the NFL, the record of success with undersized pass rushers is mixed.
“the record of success with undersized pass rushers is mixed”
But he’s not a D-end. That’s where the problems mainly stem with a lack of size. As an OTTO I don’t think size is as much of a problem.
I could see us trading down with a team that wants/needs Goff and still picking up Striker.
I am fascinated by the prospect of Watt and Donald on the same line. A sight to behold.
The NFC is falling apart just as we get a head of steam up.
I <3 you Rob. Bringing up my Fav WR in the last paragraph. Sadly, the rumor is he is returning for a Senior season to ND.
I keep coming back to value when I think about Seattle drafting in the 1st round.
Would you rather hypothetically have a shot at (Rated)
One of the Top RBs (#1 or #2)
One of the Top TEs (#1)
Top 8 OTackle (#6, 7 or 8)
Top 3 OGuard (#2 or 3)
Top OCenter (#1 or #2)
One of the top 7 WRs (#5, 6, or 7)
etc etc etc
I would much rather they take the top rated TE or RB, than some less than top rated T/G etc
You have the chance to add a top shelf talent in the mid 20s at his position… I think you take that shot. Let the draft shake out and add project guys or guys who are appropriately valued. I think Striker would be a huge over draft, when they could possible snag him in the mid of the second with a trade back and gather a few more draft picks. I agree however, LB is a need pick….. just not Striker.
I think the top rated C and TE would be a huge overdraft. Not one at either position that are 1st round quality.
I think Patrick Lewis is locking down the C spot. They’ll probably add a backup or vet in FA. PC and TC keep giving him rave reviews.
There isn’t a top TE worthy of anything like a first round pick. And the depth at RB is so good, you don’t need to take one in R1.
It’s easy to say that kris Richards defence is Pete carrolls defense, however that does not account the difference in defensive philosophy that we have saw from bradly to Quinn to Richard. I think that while Carroll is very involved I think he likes to give his coordinators autonomy in drawing up their game plans. I think that ever since they lost Clemons….they have tried to replace him…first with Irvin …and lately with marsh and Clark. So I would not be surprised to see them draft a pass rusher in the first round. I don’t think that Richard likes to blitz his lbs…and if he does call a blitz it is in a make or break 3rd down in the drive.
Just watched the last 3 minutes of GB vs Detroit. I guess they don’t call holding or blocks in the back/tackling by offensive linemen these days. With the 49ers demise I now consider GB my least favorite team.
When you compare Wilson & Rodgers, one thing that stands in contrast is that Rodgers is constantly pining for calls. Hands up, yakking at the refs, playing the victim. He’s a bitch. Russell just don’t do that. He stays in the game, a total pro.
Rodgers is constantly whining and throwing a fit. He was tackled yesterday, laying on the ground, nothing too hard or violent; you could tell he threw his head back into the ground trying to draw a flag. It was ridiculous.
But, it seemed to work, as that was the most ridiculous, generous, game-saving facemask graze I’ve ever seen called.
Here’s what I don’t get it:
GB b**ched and moaned about us winning on a tainted Hail Mary, but it’s supposed to be all fine and dandy when they do? And HC Mike McCarthy is a punk for taking a shot at Golden Tate.
I’ve never seen a QB gey away with more free plays in my life other than Aaron Rodgers. Yes, his cadence and brilliance has alot to do with it, but damn man, when an O-lineman stands up pre snap, the play should be ruled dead.
When did the NFL start changing rules on the fly? It’s why I’m such a huge fan of CFB. The janky officiating is hurting the game, and there is some really bad football being played in the NFL this year.
Don’t know if this is being discussed but if they had to call a facemask penalty why wasn’t it the 5 yard variety? In real time I can understand calling a penalty but he certainly didn’t grab and wrench Rodgers to the ground. That 10 yards makes a big difference.
I believe the NFL did away with the 5 yd call several years ago. Now, it’s a either a 15yd penalty or it’s a no call. What’s funny is the rule states if a facemask is ‘grabbed’ it must be immediately released or else it is deemed a penalty. So tell me HOW a thumb graze is considered a prolonged grab?
Also, anyone remember the ending to the GB/AZ playoff game several years ago? Last play had a AZ defender straight up stiff arm Rodgers in the facemask to end the game…No call. And the NFL defended that no call by saying the player at no time ‘grabbed’ the facemask. Yet last night they defend a thumb-graze as being a 15yd PI? Ridiculous and a resulting alternate ending that could severely impact the playoff race.
Great point,
I can’t figure out what’s fumble, a catch, or defensive PI anymore. It’s truly ridiculous.
Hey, do you know if Wazzu WR Gabe Marks is going pro this year? Like Rob, I think he would benefit from one more year and needs to get stronger, but he’s one of my favorite receiver prospects this year and very ‘Seahawky.’ His speed, quickness, and explosiob is unreal. He seems to be playing/moving faster than anyone else on the field. Jumps off the screen,
It’s what every Coug wants to know :). I’m of the opinion he stays for another year, but I have neither heard nor read any whispers
1. How bad was his Apple cup injury? Will he be back in time for the bowl game, or is this a longer deal? Could play into his decision.
2. He is close to breaking every Coug receiving record and will have a mature, experienced Heisman-candidate Luke Falk next year. immortality awaits
3. Not much draft buzz about him. As is, I don’t see him going before the 5th/6th if even that. Lots of room to climb that draft board by coming back.
4. A little undersized, not very tall, fast but not the speed you suggest. Gritty as hell and a great route runner, but not flashy…which leads me to believe he benefits more by coming back
What galled me was Aaron Rodgers said after the game that he doesn’t gripe much at the refs, so when he does, it really must be a penalty.
A mixed bag about Striker in the 1st. Rob, what scenario works better:
1. Let Okung/Sweezy/Mebane/Kearse go. Resign Irvin/Shead. Trade back draft OT/WR/DT in late 1st
2. Keep Okung/Sweezy. Draft Striker at 22
I know you say the line has gotten better and I agree. But I think the money to keep Okung and Sweezy far outweighs their abilities. Are they better, yes, are they worth the $6-12 million they will ask for, no. I would still rather keep Irvin, he is so dynamic and has really excelled. Maybe a FA RT so Gilliam moves to LT and Glow plays RG.
My response would be this. Firstly, we don’t know how much Okung and Sweezy will ask for. It might be they hit the open market, receive an underwhelming market and return on a relatively good deal for the Seahawks. Some O-lineman in recent years have reached free agency only to discover a lukewarm market. Secondly, anyone who thinks letting the two most experienced members of this O-line walk is a recipe for success in 2016 is probably going to be disappointed. Consistency and familiarity is as crucial to a line as anything. Five guys have to work as one. Losing two players just isn’t going to happen IMO. At least one will be re-signed. They aren’t going to completely overhaul the line. I think they will look to add quality to what they already have.
I think if Lynch and Williams depart you will have enough $$$ to re-sign Okung, Sweezy and have a dabble at Alex Mack. That secures the line and you can let the draft come to you in that regard. If there’s a quality OT in there who can play guard or RT, go for it. If not, you can wait on a Bisnowaty or someone like that. If that OLer doesn’t exist, you can look at other needs, the prospects available and make the pick whatever the position. And for me, this scenario that we’re talking about today enables the team to improve the OL, replace Irvin and use their picks in rounds 2-3 to fill in the gaps. Looking at the class I’d be surprised if they go DT in round one. I’d be even more surprised if they consider a WR in the first frame.
Makes sense, and I agree on continuity. I guess you are taking the point of somewhat friendly deals with Okung/Sweezy, I’m not. Carpenter, Breno wanted more money than Hawks wanted to give so they could pay the D (Avril/Bennett/Thomas/Kam/Wagner). If friendly deals, sure, keep Okung and Sweezy. But what is the line that.
A priority needs to be extend Bennett/Avril
Sweezy will be an interesting case. How do other teams value him? TC clearly likes him but the team did draft Glowinski and was interestingly persistent in specifically calling him a RG.
In any case we’re probably in for another round of “OL shuffle and early season growing pains” in 2016 too.
I know the idea of cutting Jimmy Graham loose seems unlikely to most of you, and Rob, you say there is no way. But if that frees up significant money, and Graham’s injury erodes his game to a reasonable degree (on top of his less than ideal fit to begin with), then why not move on? I do not see it any more harmful than cutting Harvin.
It’s not happening.
https://twitter.com/NFL/status/672875566907973633
That’s why they will loyally take care of their own core FAs at the risk of losing one for a high priced OL FA. Many don’t think Graham has worked out thus far. PC & JS see things differently. If their guys produce they will find a way to keep them.
They will do whatever they can to keep Okung and Sweezy rather then bringing in a Boone or a Mack in as FAs. First, it would cost less, and they are their guys. This FO is as loyal as it gets. It’s a family, especially for those core members of the team.
If the nucleus of the OL performance stays the course of improvement, you can just forget the notion of adding a high price outside FA to that group at the expense of losing one of their guys. Just like with Jimmy, loyalty is a strong characteristic of this FO.
I disagree here. I think they are generally loyal with some ruthlessness. They let Golden Tate walk because they traded for and paid Percy. They had to cut Chris Clemons to essentially finance retaining two outside FA’s in Bennett and Avril. Trading for Graham ultimately meant they didn’t have any shot to pay Maxwell.
I wouldn’t rule out them adding a Mack to the existing line and feeling that’s ‘job done’ as far as the OL is concerned. I equally wouldn’t be surprised if they sacrificed Okung, signed Mack and drafted a new tackle in round one.
Rob, I think point is being lost here. Why add to “Cables’ Guys” when they are getting the job done at the expense of losing one of their other FAs. It doesn’t make sense. You keep as many as possible, Bane, Rubin and perhaps Irvin rather than additional help at the OL that is getting the job done.
Remember, just as positive as JC was about Jimmy, he also gave a lot of love to Lewis for what he is doing for the OL. Added help would come via the draft at minimal expense as compared to the 8+mil Mack would be asking for. He’s in the 2nd yr of a 5yr contract with a cap hit of 8mil/yr.
The Browns could either trade him or release him since 2016 is not guaranteed. But, I guarantee you they will not take on an additional 8mil hit at the expense of losing one of their guys. They learn that lesson from Percy.
Graham was wash in cap space with Unger and the 1st Rd pick. Clemons and Bryant were necessary youth moves that have to be made. Mack would be an unnecessary expense that will not be made when”Cables’ Guys” are getting the job done.
The point I was making was directly in response to the point about loyalty and why they wouldn’t sign a free agent offensive lineman. I don’t really see how the point can be lost, in that regard. But anyway…
Yes, they’ve been very positive about Patrick Lewis. And yet it took them half a season of Drew Nowak struggling to finally turn to him. This to me suggests they appreciate the job he’s doing — but they’re not totally sold on Lewis. He’s a nice stop-gap for now. I expect an upgrade in the off-season.
You keep quoting a figure of $8m for Mack. And I’ll keep saying we have no idea what he will cost. The Browns can’t trade him because there is a no-trade clause in his contract. He has the option to void his contract and become a free agent after this season. He might take his chances because the Browns are a terrible, shambolic franchise. Then it’s up to whatever another team is willing to pay. There is zero evidence to suggest the Seahawks wouldn’t be willing to take him on at a cost at the expense of one of their own. As noted in my previous reply, they’ve consistently shown a ruthless streak and know full well this is their Championship window. They do what is best for the team. Not best for loyalty.
I’d suggest avoiding speaking about guarantees when it comes to this front office. They do the unexpected, time and time again. People would’ve guaranteed they couldn’t land Bennett and Avril. People would’ve guaranteed they wouldn’t trade for Jimmy Graham. People would’ve guaranteed they wouldn’t start Russell Wilson after signing Matt Flynn. They do what they want and what they think is best. And if they think adding Alex Mack is the best thing for this team at the expense of another guy they don’t like as much, they’ll do it and NGAF.
Remember, Lewis became a ” Stop gap ” last year when Unger was down with injuries and he did well. He was expected to take over that role and Nowak surfaced to take that role. It may have been to light a fire under Lewis’s complacency.
From 3rd string to starter Lewis has bounced back. There’s a point where he no longer is considered as a Stop Gap when he continues to do well. If that goes to the SB? Then, that center position is no longer a ” Stop Gap Measure “. It belongs to him. He’s earned it.
We’ll see. Their determination to go through the pains with Nowak still speaks to me. Now Lewis is holding the fort but it’s quite another thing to be seen as the long term starter.
If presented with an opportunity to land a quality veteran center, I expect they’ll explore it.
Rob, they did explore it this past preseason. And they passed. We will see how things go again at free agency. I think history repeats itself in that they pass on outside help and use the draft to enhance the OL group.
They didn’t pass due to philosophy. They passed because of cap limitations. You know as well as I do that they’ll do what it takes to win. See: Jimmy Graham.
Jimmy was that red zone threat they lacked for the offense. They have a center that’s getting the job done. A little more competition via the draft will keep Lewis hunger and keep the group younger.
Also, each of the high price trades & FA pickups were to get younger at the position and to add a unique skill set. That’s the decision that was made in regards to Unger, a (2) time ProB center for Jimmy. Mack doesn’t fit with the trend JS has shown.
Do you really think Mack will throw away 8mil/yr for the next 3yrs and “take his chances in market ” for less than that? The ex Eagle LG showed that’s not a wise move.
My guess he stays, especially when they pick Lynch as their first pick. Or, they trade him, if he’s willing to wave the no trade clause. Either way, 8+ mil for Mack would be an expenditure they would not need, nor does it fit their pattern of behavior for FA pickups.
Yes I think it’s inevitable Mack leaves Cleveland. And I’d be surprised if Seattle didn’t show a lot of interest.
The other option for obtaining Mack is if he is released and is willing to take half of what was getting paid, which is unlikely. I still hope that the Hawks draft Coleman. But, it’s unlikely to happen.
I’d recommend not assuming you know what this highly unpredictable front office will do.
Isn’t that exactly what all of us are doing here on this blog, assuming which is the best players the Hawks should have as if they will take those picks? It’s kinda fun though, isn’t it?
I think there’s a subtle difference. Proposing a possibility, making suggestions. That’s different to saying something won’t happen or talking specifically about scenarios as if they are facts.
I think we’re splitting hairs here. I’m being not dogmatic about my viewpoints. I’m merely stating my observation of how the Hawks are progressing, what steps they may or may not take in the future, and using examples of why that may be the case.
It’s purely conjecture as is this blog. It’s meant to be constructive and not antagonistic in any terms. Hopefully, a different perspective comes from it and it is entertaining. That’s how I view this dialogue
Keeping Graham on a 10 million dollar a year contract without injury protection would be a big mistake. You have to protect the team. If they were to work out a deal where he gets a small amount of money, lets say 2 million while on injured reserve and then half a million for each game he starts, that would be different. They do need to protect themselves because 10 million dollars doesn’t grow on trees, even in the NFL.
My other thought is that I would be surprised if Sweezy gets more then 2.5 million from any other team. I like his effort and that he never gets injured, but he misses way to many blitz pickups to be paid more.
Whatever they decide to do, it will not involve Graham leaving this team. He has a long future here, as Carroll has made clear.
I agree Rob, as long as the O line continue to improve an we resign Okung and/or Sweezy, I don’t think we necessarily need to go OL early. That opens up a lot of options for the 1st round. We could go corner (Eli Apple?). We could look to replace Bruce or Kam and go LB or SS. If someone like Ezekiel Elliot is available I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pete pull the trigger on him.
If the DT’s aren’t a viable option so be it, but I think that is still a huge need.
Rob, who do you see as an in-house replacement for Irvin should he leave?
We’ve got Marsh, KPL, and Pinkins. Can any of those guys provide starter-level competence at Irvin’s spot (big assumption KPL can stay healthy)?
To me, the answer is none. None of them replace Irvin.
I don’t see one cha. KPL was a major let down vs Carolina.
So it’s December and already I’m addicted to mock draft simulators. I am going to post them here and I’d like to see other people’s if they choose to do them! I use fanspeak.com. The site looks weird but it is fun and fast.
Here are the two drafts I did. One was just a three-round and the other a full 7-round. In the full 7-round the Hawks are without a fifth and sixth round draft pick, greatly limiting the value I could get. These mocks are before comp picks.
First mock:
22: R1P22
OT TAYLOR DECKER
OHIO STATE
53: R2P22
RB DERRICK HENRY
ALABAMA
85: R3P22
DE SHAWN OAKMAN
BAYLOR
Second mock:
22: R1P22
OT TAYLOR DECKER
OHIO STATE
53: R2P22
RB DERRICK HENRY
ALABAMA
85: R3P22
OLB ERIC STRIKER
OKLAHOMA
117: R4P22
RB KENNETH DIXON
LOUISIANA TECH
192: R7P3
DT JOEL HEATH
MICHIGAN STATE
211: R7P22
WR JAYDON MICKENS
WASHINGTON
I’d like to point out that in my second draft I drafted two runningbacks. I feel this would help us solidify our backfield and remain a run-first team. We could thus make Derrick Henry our lead back, retain Thomas Rawls as a change of pace back and Kenneth Dixon would be the backup as he has similar traits to Henry. I also found that pretty much all the cornerbacks I wanted were gone in the first three rounds. I wanted Sutton in the third but he was taken two picks before my pick. I was able to get Decker in the first round which helps our o-line and probably assumes that one of Okung or Sweezy are gone. I drafted Joel Heath cause I heard someone else say they liked him so I took him to help our DL. In this scenario we would have to either extend Mebane and/or Rubin and add multiple free agents. I took Mickens because I felt it was good value and because I like him. I thought he projected as a third or fourth-rounder but fanspeak does not agree.
Your turn!!!
I love Derrick Henry, I just feel he is not the ideal RB fit for our ZBS offense. He is a power back that does not have the quickest feet. Elliot, on the other hand, fits but tries to bounce outside too much for my tastes. The guy I would target is Alex Collins. The RB is probably going to be third in line behind Marshawn and Rawls, anyway. This would enable us to reload at the position without using a high pick. If we drafted Henry, I would love to see him line up at fullback. He could be the best fullback since John L. Williams.
Here is what I would do. From First-Pick.
Round 1 Pick 25: A’Shawn Robinson, DT/DE, Alabama (B+)
Round 2 Pick 25: Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas (B+)
Round 3 Pick 25: Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas (A)
Round 4 Pick 25: Devon Cajuste, WR, Stanford (A-)
Round 7 Pick 3: Tyler Johnstone, OT, Oregon (B-)
Round 7 Pick 25: Vernon Adams Jr., QB, Oregon (F)
Cajuste is stiff. Reminds me of Rice WR Jordan Taylor from last year.
Remember what PC said about WR’s. ‘He’s got the COD ability/skills we look for.’
I see him in the HBack role like Graham. He has 4.5 speed and a big body that is tough to tackle.
Oh, I get the appeal. Dude is a freak athlete. IDK if you’ve seen it, but there’s a youtube clip of him in a dunk contest and his vert is crazy. He can jump outta the gym.
Just to ask, how come ya only had 6 draft picks?
The more I think about it. If Coleman is off the board I hope we go with an Edge Rusher or CB with our first two picks and then pick up a guy like Haeg, or Bistonoway in the 3rd.
If we do that we can cut Williams and let Irvin walk and spend that money some Vet OL to sure things up and resign Okung / Sweezy.
It is clear to me the 5 things you need to win in the NFL in 2016 are
1)A quality QB
2)A consistent pass rush (pressure up the middle ideally)
3)A functioning OL
4) At least one shut down corner
5) Good Coaching and Management
We were missing 2 and 3 for much of the year but both have improved.
I don’t see a dominant interior pass rusher in this draft and the only 2 OL prospects I think can start at tackle day #1 are Tunsil and Coleman. That might mean a trade down in the first might be the best option if the top 2 tackles and 3 CBs are off the board.
Potential 2016 Free Agent targets for Hawks
Love to get people thoughts on these guys. Anyone standout who might be a target. Hawks have never been big players in free agency but there seem to be some decent mid level guys who might help this year.
Offense
Alfred Morris (RB) Wash
Ben Watson (TE) NO
Andre Smith (RT) Cin
Alex Boone (G) SF
Evan Mathis (G) Den
Keleche Oselme (G) Bal
Richie Incognito (G) Buff
Stephan Wisnewski (C) Jac
Defense
Derrick Wolfe (DL) Den
Mike Daniels (DL) GB
Jack Crawford (DL) Dal
Oliver Vernon (DL) Mia
Nick Fairley (DL) Stl
Henry Melton (DL) TB
Terrance Knighton (DL) Wash
Janoris Jenkins (CB) Stl
Mark Barron (DB)Stl
Walter Thrurmond (DB) Phil
I could see us signing any of the guards and centers. Particularly Osemele or Boone. They are both relatively young and have experience. But I think they will only do it if they can get them for cheaper than Sweezy. I’m also thinking, with how they’ve operated recently on the offensive line, they may be fine to let Sweezy walk and just plug in Glowinski or Sokoli at the right guard spot and trust the coaching. I can’t see them so non-chalantly letting Okung walk, though. On the defensive side I could see them going for Derrick Wolfe because he can play all across the line if I’m not mistaken. Terrance Knighton is a possibility on a one-year deal. Not sold on anyone else in that list.
Terrance ‘Pot Roast’ Knighton.
Depending on the status of graham, getting another NO te in Ben Watson would be a great fit for us.
A few counterpoints/comments:
– I like Striker quite a bit for his speed, smarts, and athleticism, but his tackling leaves something to be desired. Lots of grabs/pulls and some generally unsound tackling, though he could certainly be coached up in that department.
– Will Fuller has had a brilliant season, but he said that he’s committed to returning for his senior season in 2016.
– Zack Sanchez is an interesting one–he looks incredibly skinny, but he appears to have a very wiry strength and about 4.5% body fat. After watching some film on him I’m intrigued.
– I know that he’s a bit short (5’10”) for a Seahawks CB, but I really like Cyrus Jones, who also happens to be a terrific kick returner. Lloyd Carrington (AZ State) is another intriguing prospect at CB. I was high on Justin Simmons (Boston College), but he looks like a pure FS prospect now, and a pretty good one at that.
– For receivers, the Seahawks could really use a bigger dude with speed, good hands, and a big catch radius (who couldn’t?), which is why I’m huge fans of Corey Davis (Western Michigan) and Jordan Williams (Ball State). I drool at the notion of a receiver core that has UDB (Uber-pedestrian Doug Baldwin), Tyler Lockett, healthy Paul Richardson, New & Improved Jermaine Kearse, Kevin Smith, and Davis or Williams.
Is Striker not being a sound tackler, kind of like them passing on ET due to the same thing?
Careful about these undersized CBs. 95% of them won’t have the length Seattle requires. WT3 was a rare cat.
Texas A&M OL Germain Ifedi going pro.
Some awful news fellas. Pitt HB James Conner has cancer.
Very sad news. Go beat it James.
Amen to that brother.
Do you like Baylor OL Spencer Drango?
And, have you ever checked out K-St OL Cody Whitehair? One of the more versatile O-lineman in CFB.
From what I saw this year from Drango not crazy about him. Not watched Whitehair. No K-State games over here.