First of all, thank you to everyone who sent a message about the birth of my daughter. Sasha arrived on Sunday and joins Henry, my three-year-old son.
We do a watch-list review every couple of months. With the Senior Bowl complete, it’s time for an update.
Things I’ve considered:
1. Pete Carroll’s admitted team needs
2. Seattle’s trends under Carroll and John Schneider (cornerbacks with +32 inch arms, explosive O-liners etc)
And a reminder — this is a status check for February 1st. A lot can and will change after the combine.
Here are some names to monitor:
Offensive linemen
Garett Bolles (T, Utah)
Ryan Ramcyzk (T, Wisconsin)
Linebackers
Haason Reddick (LB, Temple)
Zach Cunningham (LB, Vanderbilt)
Tyus Bowser (LB, Houston)
Jarrad Davis (LB, Florida)
Defensive backs
Kevin King (CB, Washington)
Obi Melifonwu (DB, Connecticut)
Budda Baker (DB, Washington)
Adoree’ Jackson (CB, USC)
Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia)
Some points…
1. Both offensive linemen listed could go in the top-20
Bolles is an elite athlete for his position. His footwork, loose hips, punishing physicality and unmatched ability at the second level should mean he’s long gone before Seattle’s pick.
Tony Pauline confirmed as much yesterday:
On the junior front talk at the Senior Bowl was the expectations of tackle Garrett Bolles being selected much earlier than presently projected.
While scouts are concerned about his lower body strength they’ve classified Bolles as the “superior athlete” in this year’s tackle class.
There’s just too much demand at the tackle position for a player of Bolles’ quality to last. Sadly.
Ramcyzk isn’t the same kind of athlete but he’s solid. He’s having surgery to repair a torn labrum. That could lead to a slight drop but again, the league needs tackles.
The Seahawks might sprint to the podium if either reaches #26.
2. It’s a really good looking group of linebackers
Why isn’t this position getting more attention? It’s legitimately possible we could see at least three first round picks at linebacker (Reuben Foster, Zach Cunningham, Haason Reddick). The likes of Jarrad Davis, Tyus Bowser, Raekwan McMillan and Alex Anzalone won’t be far behind.
3. Is linebacker really a first round possibility?
This is a point worth emphasising again. In an ideal world, a fitting offensive tackle or defensive back will be there at #26. What if that isn’t the case?
In that scenario, getting a really good linebacker to team with Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright would be one of the best ways to add an impact player to the defense. Carroll might’ve specifically mentioned linebacker in the context of adding younger depth behind the two key starters — but getting a complete backer that can stay on the field for any down or distance could be appealing.
4. Why do the linebackers listed fit?
They’re all tremendous athletes. Reddick has reportedly run a 4.47 in the past and is expected to possess a similar physical profile to 2014 #15 pick Ryan Shazier.
Zach Cunningham has a chance to test equally well. He’s intense, physical, had 16.5 TFL’s in 2016 and is said to have great length.
Both players will likely appeal to the Seahawks as plug-in-and-play three-down linebackers with the ability to cover and make plays in the backfield. The downside? Both could easily be off the board by Miami at #22.
Bowser could be a consolation prize. He too is a fantastic athlete with underrated range and the potential to be good in coverage. He’s already a solid pass rusher with the size to be a Bruce Irvin-style addition. His stock will continue to rise after the combine. Would you really be shocked if the Seahawks went after a player like this, rich in versatility and with a high ceiling?
Then there’s Davis. He’s not as twitchy as the other three names listed but he’s reportedly capable of a time in the 4.5’s and that shows with his ability to close and cover ground quickly. He’s been compared to Shaq Thompson but he’s more of a leader and tone-setter. He was the heart and soul of a loaded Florida defense filled with future NFL players.
5. Why are only five defensive backs listed?
Purely because we need the combine. Seattle has a ‘type’ at cornerback and it includes strict height and length measurements. For example, they haven’t drafted a single cornerback with sub-32-inch arms.
What’s more, they haven’t drafted a cornerback earlier than the fourth round since 2010. It’ll probably take an exceptional athlete with major upside to break that trend.
Until we get a full list of measurements and testing results it’s difficult to project who is likely to be in contention for the Seahawks.
6. What about the five names mentioned?
Kevin King has the size and likely the length. He had a sensational workout at the 2016 Husky combine. Tony Pauline reported on Monday that teams really like him and a good forty yard dash could secure a first round grade:
Better than expected times in the forty (low 4.4’s) could push King into the late part of round one. Otherwise expect to hear his name called in the second frame. King’s ball skills compare with many of the top corners but teams fear he will be a liability in the deep field.
If he manages a sensational three-cone like the 6.40 he had last year plus the 39.5 inch vertical, that might convince the Seahawks he’s freaky enough for #26. Richard Sherman only ran a 4.56 so something similar for King might not be an issue.
Melifonwu is expected to do everything well at the combine, plus we already know how he measures because he attended the Senior Bowl. He’s 6-4 and 219lbs with 32.5 inch arms. Physically he looks the part of a Seattle DB. Many have tipped him to run in the 4.4’s and record a +40 inch vertical too.
That should be freaky enough for the Seahawks. He could be tried as an outside cornerback but he’s also capable of working in the slot against bigger targets and covering at safety.
Baker is just a superb prospect and could be long gone by #26. His physicality despite a lack of size is impressive, he makes plays beyond the LOS as a blitzer and he has the range to play single high.
Here’s more from Tony Pauline’s most recent report, this time on Baker:
Scouts say Baker is just a terrific football player. They question his speed and tell me despite recent comparisons he’s no Earl Thomas. Grades on Baker presently range from second round through the fourth round.
Baker carries himself like a Seahawk and you can imagine him being part of Seattle’s defense. The way he fits in is the question mark. Unlike Melifonwu he’s unlikely to be considered an outside corner and he’s not going to be covering tight ends or Mike Evans types. Would you have to dramatically adapt your defense to fit him in as a first round pick, using three-safety looks or hoping he can manage a role primarily in the slot?
It’s still worth keeping him on the radar for now, due to his extreme tenacity, athleticism and attitude.
Jackson similarly is more likely ‘just’ a slot corner in Seattle unless he has obscenely long arms for his size like Chris Harris Jr. That said, he’s the kind of ultra-dynamic athlete and playmaker the Seahawks have liked in the past. He’s also high character and could provide depth at safety too, not to mention his kick-return skills (possibly important depending on the health of Tyler Lockett).
Here’s more from Tony Pauline:
Despite the fact he’s likely to measure under 5-feet/10-inches at the combine most I spoke with say Adoree’ Jackson of USC is a lock first round pick.
They are willing to overlook Jackson’s height as teams have stamped the junior “a difference maker” at cornerback, as a return specialist and even at the receiver position.
Douglas had eight interceptions in 2016 and has the requisite size and length to fit the Seahawks. He has a passion for the game and the mentality that will likely appeal to Seattle’s staff. He’s a former four-star recruit that received offers from Florida State and Georgia.
How early is too early for Douglas? The combine will answer that. If he runs a 4.4 with his physical skill set and production — he could be one of the big winners in Indianapolis.
There are others we could add to the list. Sidney Jones is a big-time talent but will likely go in the top-15. Marlon Humphrey is being downgraded by many but cornerbacks with his athletic profile and size usually don’t get out of the top-20. The two Florida cornerbacks did not test well at the Nike Sparq Combine in 2013 and will likely need a better performance in Indianapolis to be considered. Jabrill Peppers gets a bad press but there’s a very real chance someone takes a shot on him in the top-25. Cordrea Tankersley and Gareon Conley are two others to monitor.
It’s such a deep group of DB’s, this list will surely grow after the combine.
7. Are there other positions to consider?
Possibly — but in the past when Carroll has stated a need, they’ve attacked it in the draft.
There are ‘Seahawky’ types elsewhere including Takk McKinley (EDGE, UCLA), Charles Harris (EDGE, Missouri), Taco Charlton (EDGE, Michigan), John Ross (WR, Washington), Dorian Johnson (OL, Pittsburgh) and David Njoku (TE, Miami) to name a few.
Great article, Rob.
It summarizes what the blog talked about lately really well.
Looking at OT and the great risk of not having either of the candidates to pick at 26 I would really hope PCJS try harder (meaning spending more and most probably overspending) to get an OT in FA that definetely would be an upgrade like Reiff, Wagner or even Khalil.
That would really give the the opportunity to go after LB/CB/S with great chances to get difference makers for years to come.
Congrats again Rob.
Since we’re discussing the watch list, this is a good time to share size/athletic minimums, according to Seahawks draft history.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t8eGy7M5aSqqA5Yx2jVgqq2-OoFlnMJ7G4jHLRzkVTY/edit?usp=sharing
That google doc contains a ton of athletic testing results from the combine and pro days, for relevant Seahawks in the PCJS era. The data was taken from mockdraftable, nfldraftscout, and Zach Whitman’s 3sigma athlete.
There’s also a tab on the excel doc with typical Hawks draft athletic requirements for each position. The doc will be updated with prospects that qualify at each position after the combine and pro days.
JT, thanks a lot for the great work. A lot of people here will really appreciate it i would think.
Looking at all the tables it reiterates the validity of Rob’s work on TEF and on the “typical” Seahawk draft candidates.
And it also shows that it doesn’t work out all the time (C-Mike, Sokoli,…) but it hopefully minimizes the failures.
And seeing the physical potential of SJB, Seisay and Elliott maybe there is still hope our next CB is already on the roster.
Thanks for sharing
Dang.
Good doc there. Thanks for sharing.
Really nice work, JT. Thanks for sharing.
This brings to mind again a suggestion for Rob and the website: would you be interested in developing a couple of the tabs at the top of the SDB site with this kind of information? A few of them are somewhat in disuse and could be re-dedicated. Some ideas could be:
– A tab for “Hawks Positional Profiles”, based on JT’s work here.
– Another great tab could be “All about wTEF”, that could be a reference point for those who come asking about it and for others who reference your work on other sites, etc.
– We could all chip in ideas to update the “Links” page with good sources for testing numbers and draft talk.
I know right now may not be the precise moment, but once things settle down a bit for you I think it might add to the site if you are interested. We could collaborate on a Google Doc to get started and then when you it’s ready and you have time you could add it to the site pages. Just thought it might be a fun way to stay active until the combine.
*Bookmarked*
This draft appears loaded, except at T. Sigh. Much as I like guys like Baker and Melifonwu and Peppers, I have wanted a stud G or T since 2006, and Seattle has yet to find even ONE, despite 10 Drafts and three regimes…So I’m dying for a fine OL player who can come in from the get-go and not look like Fant and Gilliam and Ifedi have.
Rob, really excellent list. I like them all! Too bad we cant get 3-4 of the guys you listed…
Really hoping Seattle is NOT docked a second or third round pick for the crap with Sherman. Time will tell…
Congratulations Rob to you and your wife. I have a request which I hope causes no anger. I am a daily reader to your post and most comments, and love and appreciate all the work you do. But here goes a request to add to your work load. Or perhaps this would be a good one to pawn off to a guest writer which I know has been discussed. I know your sight is forward thinking and always trying to identify the NEXT Hawk.
However we all fall in love with prospects that we didn’t get, because lets face it we can only draft and keep so many. Whether it be an Auburn left tackle or a BYU LB. I would love to see an article updating all the prospects that we didn’t get, where they did go and how they are doing.
Again congrats to you and your wife they are very few things more important than football and the Hawks, family is one.
Rob, what is your opinion of Jabrill Peppers and how he might fit with the Seahawks?
He’s a tough one to work out. Fantastic athlete, superb character. Will be an asset for any team. But what is his best position? Is he a safety? A Mark Barron type? Can he play the slot? How big is he? Lot of questions there.
According to NFL.com Peppers clocked a 4.34 forty in June of 2016. If his arms are long enough and his 3-cone is good I don’t see why the Hawks wouldn’t be very interested. He’s a play maker with Earl Thomas-like speed and mentality in a slightly bigger package. The combine will be telling.
He was interviewed after that forty and, quite openly, admitted that as it was a hand-timed 4.34 he’s probably a 4.45 runner. It’s still fast — but I thought it was cool how he was honest about it.
Thanks, Rob. Great job as always, and congrats on the new addition.
I also think the Hawks need to look at running back. Neither Thomas Rawls nor C.J. Prosise has shown they can stay healthy, and Alex Collins is unproven. We need a new stud to take some pressure off Russell Wilson. Mike Holmgren agrees – in a radio interview with Softy Mahler a couple of weeks ago, he listed running back as the top need. I agree O-line and cornerback are obviously important, but I’d put running back right there with them. I’d like to see them take one in the first three rounds.
I agree RB is a need, but I sense Pete Carroll feels differently to an extent. I think they would like to add another body. It might be a veteran. The draft has options but after the first 3-4 leave the board it’s a very average RB class IMO. Keep an eye on Elijah Hood.
Yep, agreed. But Pete and John have surprised us before. Maybe they would take a chance on Joe Mixon – ?
I think it’s highly doubtful
You’re probably right. Mixon’s teammate, Samaje Perine, also looks good.
Very
I really hope Budda makes it to our 2nd pick, I’d really even be fine with the Hawks tradin back a bit and gambling to get someone like David Njoku or Tyus Bowser and then receiving and early 3rd and spending it on a guy like Douglas.
I think the Hawks are probably pretty intrigued by Budda as he gives us the ability to play disguise looks. I know the system is usualy cover 3 all day every play but Richard has actually called a bit of cover 2, just imagine a play where Kam and Earl look like they are both going to sit over the top in cover 3 zones, Sherm and Buddah are lined up on the outside with, Shead, Douglas, King, Elliot, Lane, whoever the outside RCB1 is, on the slot receiver, the ball snaps suddenly Budda is in Earls over the top Zone, Earl shifts over 1 and Kam comes down into the box, making a cover 2 zone play.
Budda’s lack of position would be a great asset for the team especially in terms of flexibility.
I really like Njoku and i think he could make a dangerous threat in base tight end sets, Bowser is just difficult to watch without assessing him as being a future seahawk, his speed and range just look great a real revitalizer for a run defense where a few opponents got the cutback and found outside run lanes which is extremely uncommon against the Hawks. I’m willing to be this stems from Bobby over committing out of fear that K.J didn’t have the speed and Morgan just wasn’t good enough.
If it seemed likely that we would see Tyus make it to round 2 i wouldn’t mind an early trade, lets say we swap picks with the bears and get a 3rd round pick (the bears are just there not sure about their trade interest) I wouldn’t mind seeing the Hawks trade up into the middle of the 2nd and getting
Bowser, Baker, and Douglas/King/I’ve seen some people mock Jones this high and a boy can only dream
I think all 3 of those players would be instant impact players on defense.
Good points about Budda’s giving us options for different looks.
The reason I like him over others is that triple threat. He can play in space, follow a man in coverage, and also attack the LOS/blitz, as Rob pointed out when he first posted about him. He’s so good at weaving through traffic towards the ball carrier and avoiding would-be blockers. Just an all-out football player with great instincts, tackling and great athletic ability to go with it.
I haven’t seen all three of these together in another prospect like that, which is why I like him over, for example, Marcus Maye, who is another guy I like as a ballhawk.
Any numbers on Marcus Maye? Is he a late round corner?
Congratulations Rob. Trying to start a family myself and hoping to be where you are soon. I feel the more things fall it will be Kevin King that Seattle selects. He seems the perfect storm of need, talent and availability. A run on CB’s seems likely in the middle of the first round and with such strict profiles Seattle needs to strike quickly. It seems they may be able to find a LB later though maybe not Bowser. I haven’t watched Anzalone very much this season. Is he a guy that can stay on the field for 3 downs?
Great work Rob, really loving these write ups catching me up on my annual draft article binging.
I really don’t see them going OL in R1 but could see them going for playmakers at DB, LB, or DL in R1 or 2.
I’d like to see an OT, CB, WR with the first 3 picks of this draft, but I think Rob is right in how they will likely wait again on OL.
Not sure why (via Pauline) scouts are doubting Budda Baker’s speed. At the “Husky Combine” in March 2016, he ran a 4.35. That is hand timed, of course, but even then it’s still probably going to be low 4.4s, if not better.
Here’s a bit from the ESPN article: http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/98659/budda-baker-dazzles-at-husky-combine
“While Ross’ return and performances were a pleasant surprise, Baker’s output on the day likely surprised no one. The star of the Washington defense came back faster and bigger than he was at the end of last season (up to 184 pounds from 171 pounds) and clocking a 4.35 40-yard dash.
Baker said the main thing for him in getting his 40 time down was working on his start, since last season he just relied on his athleticism.
“Coaches helped a lot with my first 10 steps, because usually your first 10 yards is going to tell you what your 40 is,” Baker told The News Tribune. “I’m very happy I got better at that, but there’s always room for improvement.”
[end quote]
Anyway, we know Kevin King is going to blow up the combine in agility drills and jumps. I think Baker will too and gets into Rd. 1. Now how can we find a way to land both…
Those in-house combines are notorious for highly favorable hand timing. The explosive numbers are more reliable, though.
Congrats on the new addition to your family Rob, enjoy this time in your life ’cause before you know it you’ll be a great grandpa like me. It’s really a pleasure to start teaching them about Seahawks football at a young age, this is how fan bases are really built. Plus you can send the kids home with their parents afterwards, believe me, that’s a great thing, all of the good, less of the bad.
With regards to player evaluations, I ran across this (rather long) article, the players mentioned seem to be from the 2008 era, but the performance stats involved should still be somewhat useful in pre-draft computations at the various positions. Just another possible resource for individual player evaluations from the combine testing results. Interesting read, if nothing else.
http://www.ourlads.com/pdfs/PhysAttributes_NFLSuccess.pdf
Rob-
What are your thoughts on addressing the immediate hole left by Shead’s injury. Mainly do you see the Hawks going after a CB via first wave of free agency or waiting until after combine/draft to assess their position. If they hold off during first wave of FA and don’t draft a DB in the middle rounds then will they really be confident in the current guys they have on the roster? Seems like they are in a tricky position in terms of going after a guy to fill in for, or even outright replace Shead if his recovery doesn’t go as planned. What would be your approach?
Thanks!
I think free agency is unlikely. They’ve been down that road before and got burnt at cornerback. The Seahawks teach a very specific technique, requiring a very specific physical profile and skillset. The top players possibly available in free agency (Buoye, Gilmore) do not match up with that measurable desire.
It’s also a really deep, quality class of CB’s. I would be looking to draft one in the first two rounds if possible. If not, there will be options on day two and three.
Trumaine Johnson as a long shot?
He has great length and size.
Maybe.
Might be too costly though
In my dreams!!
If I could pick one FA, it would be him or Campbell. But I agree with ARob. The floor for his price tag is going to be Jenkins. Too rich for our Hawks unfortunately.
Rob,
As you said, the Seahawks never drafted a CB early. They also did not let rookie CBs start on week one. Sherman, Shead, Lane, all started later after they learned the Seahawk’s way of playing CB.
Combine that with the pictures from last week showing Shead already in post surgery rehab and the urgent need for a CB may not be as glaring by early May.
I think that a day 1-2 DB pick in this deep draft class is a must. I’m no longer sure that a CB in rd 1 will be the call.
Also, congratulations again on young Sarah, may she bring a lot of joy to her parents and another championship season for us like her older brother did in 2013.
It’s mostly right but they were going to have Thurmond start but he kept getting injured. That’s the only one I can think of though.
Congrats on your new daughter Rob.
Sometime in the future I would like to start a discussion about the potential for taking 1-4th round defensive linemen and turning them into offensive line (like Sweezy but starting with more potential). Seems like the Seahawks favor metrics over actual performance. How else do you end up with Fant and Gilliam as tackles? Plus they did try that conversion experiment on Sweezy and threw him in the mix his first year. So Seahawks have no inhibitions about throwing unproven rookies to the wolves.
I just wonder what would happen if they picked one and two on defensive line and converted them to guards or tackles? I’m assuming that the two actual offensive tackles are unavailable plus I only like Bolles of the two anyway. Or they could pick defense the first two rounds and then start my defense to offense strategy in the third. They should still be better than a basketball player.
Just one man’s opinion: Please, no more converted defensive to offensive linemen. The Sweezy/Sokoli/Novak experiments must end. Get a decent RT, be it through the draft or more likely FA, and call it good.
I think, like you that the lack of talented offensive linemen precludes picking anyone early. I would go a different route though, I think I would focus my FA money on offensive lineman (ala Oakland) and draft defensively since that’s where all the young talented athletic players are being funneled to these days.
At spring practice in 2016, my nephew, who played receiver was moved to cornerback because the coach said a scout from UCLA told him athleticism shows better on defense and it will increase his profile as a recruit. According to his coach, reaction skills are more important and more impressive than route running and technique. The scout told him recruiting and college football has changed because they can use raw athletes in space on offense – no technique necessary for the spread offenses to work. Because of that, playing defense has become so difficult that having freak athletes and more speed on the defense is the only way to combat the spread schemes that rule college and high school football. Not to humble brag (ok, fine I’m proud), but this is a kid who went 64/1352/17 TDs as a sophomore at receiver – he’s now a defender/returner (5 INTs his first year on defense – 2 ret’d for TDs, 3 PR TDs and 1 KR TD), not because he’s better at it, but because if he shows out at CB athletically – he might get a scholarship to play SOMETHING in college. This is happening across the country, which is why drafting defense and buying offensive line makes the most sense.
But the lack of offensive linemen in the draft is pushing up the cost of free agents. Didn’t Sweezy get 6.5 million per year? Okung is getting around 6-8 million depending on bonuses.
I don’t see why the Seahawks couldn’t make some high draft picks of defensive linemen and convert them The strength in this draft is defense in the first two rounds and probably into the third. Look at Robs list. Two offensive linemen and 9 defensive players, and he hasn’t even listed defensive linemen which would amount to maybe 16-20 players of high quality in the first two rounds.
The key would be to get them and train them for a year. That is what Sweezy and Fant lacked, not enough training.
Rob,
Big belated congratulations to you and your wife on a the birth of your baby girl! I’ve got 2 of my own and am certain she’ll have you wrapped around her finger in no time. Best wishes
Thanks 🙂
I think we need to re-sign Mike Morgan and immediately bring in his competition. I think a physical presence on the edge would do a lot to improve the defensive attitude. There are a lot of good EDGE players and linebackers that could conceivable fill that role.
Takk McKinley excels as a pass rusher, but struggled against the run – Irvin was once considered a liability against the run, so maybe it’s a learned skill as opposed to a can or can’t sort of thing, perhaps as a stand-up SLB he would come downhill and set that hard edge and be a good force player. The other SLB candidates that would need to develop coverage skills, but excel as pass rushers and edge run defenders already are: T.J. Watt and Tim Williams. I also really like Houston’s Tyus Bowser and Florida’s Jarrad Davis, who are more stand-up LBs already but play very physical and have shown pass rush ability as blitzers.
If Tim Williams passes the character interviews, he’d be among my favorite players to draft at 26, if available. He could be a potential devastating past rusher for our team.
Any idea on why “teams fear (King) will be a liability in the deep field”?
There’s a concern about his long speed. Since he’s primarily a press corner, scouts want to know he can make up ground on a vertical route if he gets beat off the line.
I’ve watched about 5 games on King, and can only remember 1 instance where he was beat over the top. It was against Cal for a touchdown.
While other teams will have concerns, I doubt a 4.50 40-time would deter the Seahawks, especially if he crushes the other athletic tests.
I posted this above, but at the “Husky Combine” in March 2016, he ran a 4.35. That is hand timed, of course, but even then it’s still probably going to be low 4.4s, if not better.
Some scouts may be concerned, I certainly am not. 🙂
They exaggerate those times. There’s a reason they don’t use them as an official score.
Again, these teams know what kind of athletes these guys are based off the junior pro days. The combine is all about confirmation.
Oops, I was referring to Baker, not King. My bad.
I am worried about his speed.
If he runs the 40 under 4.5, he is not going to be there for us. I’d rather he posts a Sherman type of time so we can take him in day 2.
Deep speed.
The thing is though — it doesn’t show up on tape. He’s sticky in coverage.
Deshawn Shead is a RFA this year, probably gone the year after. There is a lot to like about these corners, I could absolutely see this as their #1 pick. Of course it will have to be weighed by who’s available. If by some miracle Bolles falls, he’s gotta be the pick.
Been racking my brain trying to figure out what will make the Hawks unstoppable. Like a lot of people here, I am drawn to some of the defensive possibilities. A super fast, aggressive secondary guy, be it a slot cornerback or safety or “money backer” guy seems to be what we could use. Too many 8 yard passes for first downs last year. I am excited to see what transpires with the CBs and safeties available in the first round. Been pretty impressed by Buddha Baker. Seems like a speedy guy akin to Tyrann Mathieu.
On offense, a tackle, and a 2000 yard workhorse running back would be great to just stumble upon. A big bodied receiver to compliment guys like Baldwin, P Rich and Lockett would be cool. #obviousthoughts
Budda Baker is not Tyrann Mathieu.
Mathieu while a phenomenal defender and a truly unique player, is always hurt because his size doesn’t hold up. That’s the similarity for Budda and him in my eyes.
I think Budda will come in small, and he’s top heavy. Meaning if he gains weight, it’ll be in the lower body. How will that impact his athleticism?
Budda does not come in with all the baggage of a Tyrann either though. By chance did you see my earlier post about updating all the former players we discussed last year and prior?
I did. Not a bad idea at all. How far back we talking?
Back to 09!!!
Man i was just hoping for the last 2 years are so, But I really do like the way you think Kenny!
what would make the hawks unstoppable??
A running game.
My opinion of course. I see the defensive needs for sure. But the #1 thing to fix is the running game to me.
I could agree with that. Our offense (w/ inconsistent running game) was definitely more of a weak spot than our defense.
But Dallas had one of the best offensive lines and best running backs in the league, and it wasn’t enough.
it’s a tough year because like you I want Seattle to get the Oline right somehow, someway. But I’m not interested in a Britt style three year project pick or a James Carpenter solid but solidly unremarkable pick. Which is strange to have such raw/weak pieces on the Oline but for me not see any picks at least not at 26 that are going to fundamentally improve the line.
I’m not making any projections on HOW to fix the running game. I’m just saying IMO that is the area in biggest need of improvement.
Better line would help
Better RB would help
Healthy RW will help
Committment from Coaching to the run would help.
I don’t really care how they fix it. Just fix it.
Unstopable?
Health.
In 2014 a lot of us really liked Joel Bitonio but even after trading back we still passed on him, have we speculated why? Not a premier athlete? Not meaning to compare the two as prospects, just that Bolles is getting a lot of love here too and it got me wondering
As much as I liked Bitonio before that draft, he didn’t pass TEF. And if we’d known about TEF going into that draft, it would’ve changed the approach to how we prepared and discussed that class.
Rob,
As much as I hated the idea, you made such a fine case for TEF that i had to accept how important it is for the Seahawks.
Since then I have come to realize that whoever we may end up taking this year, I do not want to see him on the field on day one.
It’s hard enough to find OL players that can make a positive impact on day one (almost impossible). It is absolutely a pipe dream when you pick for TEF this late in the 1st. Supreme physical specimens will only last this long if they are very RAW or technically inferior. I have had enough of those. If I hear “growing pains” or “work in progress” again in September I’ll be very very disappointed.
I suspect the OL focus will come in free agency this year, unless one of the top two OT’s last until #26.
Does anyone have any info on tj watt? JJ watt’s younger brother? I mean, if he has jj ‘s genes then maybe we should take him at some point and see what happens. I haven’t heard about him at all this year.
T.J. has all the hustle, all the instincts, and the perfect size to play SLB. I’m curious how he performs at the combine, but as long as he doesn’t embarrass himself – he looks plenty athletic on tape. Assuming he has the same work ethic as J.J. I think he will be a good player for whoever gets him. That said, I don’t know where he fits as far as draft slot, I just know I would love to have him in Seattle. He, Jarrad Davis and Tim Williams are probably my favorite early round SLB candidates.
I know that Bolles and Ramczyk are the two OTs that are the most appealing and best suited to start day one at LT. However, I also think Cam Robinson, should he fall below those two, is a viable option at 26. He isn’t left tackle material but would make a significant upgrade over Gilliam at RT. He has the frame and strength required of a RT, Gilliam is more suited to be at LT to compete with Fant and Odhiambo. Robinson has his drawbacks in terms of elite athleticism and poor kick step, but those attributes are not as important at RT where you often get help from TEs and RBs. Should Bolles and Ramczyk along with the top LB and DB prospects on this watch list go before 26, Robinson would be a solid late first round starter day one at RT.
The problem with Robinson is character related and also his play at times is maddening. The Seahawks like size and Robinson certainly looks the part — but they also value intelligent O-liners capable of being moulded with high character. I’m not convinced that is Robinson and have expected him to go in R2 for a while.
I’ve been thinking about Dan Feeney lately, assuming he scores well on TEF. I know they have said they would like to keep Ifedi at guard for the sake of continuity, but we also know there is a shortage of NFL tackles (they have stated he could be a good tackle, too). If tackles are gone, which they probably will be, it’s possible they could go with a guard to shore up the line and move Ifedi to right tackle.
If they offer Gilliam the RFA 1-year deal, this is moot. They won’t draft someone at #26 who won’t start. But if they let Gilliam go and don’t sign anyone to play tackle, I think this could be a serious possibility if the good tackles are gone (taking a guard in the first two rounds and Ifedi to RT).
Personally, King seems like the most obvious pick based on what they need. None of us are confident in a healthy Shead (who won’t be healthy) or have much confidence in Lane either. After Sherman, there isn’t much reason for optimism at CB. I think back to last off-season and all the comments about how Simon will be ready to contribute at CB and have a good year. I shudder.
So much to consider before then… What if we resign Okung? What if Maxwell is released and we sign him? Free agency and/or trade will tell us a lot which direction they may likely go in. We just have to wait it out…
I like Dan Feeney — but I’m not convinced he’ll be a TEF star, plus there are some concussion issues with him. The Seahawks have generally gone for freaky, high upside, amazing ceiling types in R1 and often in R2. Is that Feeney? Probably not. He will make a solid pro for someone though.
I think that’s what annoys a lot of Seahawks fans about the front office, especially when it comes to the O-Line.
While PCJS will shoot for elite upside, taking on low-floor high-ceiling guys, a lot of people read ‘a solid pro’ and think that’s literally all the Hawks need on the line. Don’t need superstars, just need something slightly better than cripplingly mediocre.
Kind of like Cody Whitehair last year. He didn’t check all the boxes but everyone pretty much knew he’d be a good/great interior OL guy. And then he went out and had a great rookie season.
Doesn’t check the boxes like Ifedi but outperforms him on the football field. Frustrating. Will be interesting to see if they play him at guard or center next year with Grasu coming back from injury (the reason Whitehair was moved from guard to center). He was a guy a lot of us were high on two years ago. Bears have the makings of a solid line moving forward.
At the same time, as Rob points out, we’re projecting/thinking how the Seahawks front office thinks. Not what we’d like to see happen. It isn’t worth our time to hope for a player we know they won’t consider. I would be more than happy with Feeney somewhere in the second round though, although that won’t happen if he doesn’t test well. My favorite Feeney “test” is that he gave up 1 sack after being a 4-year starter.
Totally, not trying to start banging the drum for Feeney, I just thought it was a neat encapsulation of the whole situation.
I’m generally one of the guys that come down on the Hawks side on this stuff. It’s exceedingly rare to get a star, let alone a superstar, who’s an average or below average athlete.
2017 manra for Seahawks offensive line: “Just need something slightly better than cripplingly mediocre.”
A ‘solid pro’ essentially means someone with an average or below average physical profile. And that means said player is going to be a mismatch at the next level. Now — there are players who conquer those issues and have productive careers anyway. It’s funny though, that whenever a counter is required to the Seahawks’ approach to drafting for the OL, people usually find the latest example of a middling athlete who succeeded (this isn’t aimed at you personally, just a general comment). They don’t recall the vastly greater number of middling athletes who were absolute flops at the next level because they were completely overwhelmed by explosive D-liners.
I’ll recall the Tweet by Joe Goodberry during the senior bowl weigh-ins: “Most players that lack the ideal Height/Weight/Length/Athleticism have failed. It’s about minimizing chance of failure.”
The Seahawks might not have had a ton of success on the OL so far (the whole league is struggling in that regard) but their physical preferences have created the most dynamic roster in the NFL over the last 5 years. And their approach appears to be created due to a belief in their ability to develop talent and upside. Which, IMO, is fair enough.
Dynamic like 6 points against AZ or was 3 against the Rams, or perhaps the 10 against the Vikings? They need to quit out thinking themselves and draft some one who can block! Its all about performance.
Surely you appreciate the simplistic nature of this response though? Are we honestly saying that the reason why Seattle scored 6 points on the road against Arizona or three in week two against the Rams is because they didn’t have a middling athlete playing right guard in either game?
Or was it perhaps the fact the quarterback was nurturing a serious MCL injury and a high ankle sprain, with both preferred starting running backs out injured and Tyler Lockett also injured, while they were sorting through a bit of a mess at offensive tackle? Jimmy Graham also played about 15 snaps agains the Rams in LA as he was still recovering from his knee injury.
I’ll go back to my former point. Any given NFL Draft is full of ‘solid’ O-liners that are below average athletes. And when one of these players has even moderate success, it’s latched upon as a reason to beat Seattle over their approach to the OL. Yet the leagues best O-liners are generally a.) high first round draft picks or b.) really good athletes. Is it any wonder that teams like Dallas (three first rounders, two in the top-16) and Tennessee (three first rounders, all in the top-12) get praised so much?
The Seahawks aren’t reinventing the wheel here. They’re trying to build an explosive OL capable of handling increasingly explosive NFL D-lines.
As the roster sits right now, I’d say a CB is needed more than an OL. I’d love a great OL as much as anyone though. Personally, I am glad they have resigned their superstars and don’t overpay for guys who aren’t superstars.
I really wanted David DeCastro over Bruce Irvin. I firmly believe that if they had drafted DeCastro that they would have resigned him because he can legitimately say he’s the best or almost the best right guard in the NFL. They aren’t going to overpay for Sweezy (though they did offer $30 million plus) and guys who are going to get paid like the best at their position – even though they aren’t truly great.
It’s kind of like we are happy with every position on the team and how they scout them… but then bring the pitchforks and knives when it comes to the OL.
As it sits right now, I think the OL is close to becoming a non-liability. Experience is the only enemy right now, but the full year they got together is going to be huge in 2017. Think how much improvement Fant, Glowinski, and Britt have made since this time last year (Ifedi, too). If Gilliam comes back, it will be nice because he won’t be coming off knee surgery. We had high hopes for him going into last season. No reason he can’t be average in year four AND healthy.
I hope one way or another they bring in some competition and/or a new starter at tackle. But that could be a free agency job. The draft, assuming Bolles is gone, is weighted heavily to defense.
We stated, Rob. I like the approach. Seems like patience for results is what fans need to reconcile…
In the mean time they can’t manage to even stand in the way of somebody, maybe that’s why we have a hurt QB.
And yet Wilson got hurt on two freaky occasions when he was trying too hard to extend the play.
Yeah I agree, sorry for starting this whole thing again. I totally understand why the Hawks are doing what they’re doing, but I also understand why some people are getting frustrated at watching totally serviceable players like Whitehair and Bitonio ignored because of a couple of inches here and there.
No need to apologise. It’s cool 🙂
But, its probably more than just inches. There will always be outliers or guys that dont match the length threshold, but they either have to compensate/make up for it in another area or its not negatively impacting their play.
They pass on guys for reasons that no combine, pro day, or VMac visits (interviews too) will ever tell us.
Seattle also has a threshold and checklist on the mental side of things. What the team physch gets in his interviews as well as the coaches. We’ll never know what those are. Ever. They’ll tell is why they liked someone or what made them draft that prospect. But, not the answers he gave them that made this FO pull the trigger.
Its all about a culture. Takes a team full of guys to establish it, but only 1 to bring it to it’s knees.
Perfect example? Percy Harvin. He was getting too close to being the leader of a mutiny.
One of my least favorite football memories is his sheepish smile as he was walking off the field with an injury against the Saints.
Not sure they go their interviews in with that one.
Oh I think PC knew him from his days at USC when he was recruiting him, but more than likely failed to realize, he was the same guy. Hadn’t matured.
Sure. I know that, you know that, Rob knows that, most of this blog knows that. The only point I was making was that seeing a throwaway line like ‘he’ll be a solid pro for someone’ is catnip to the people who want to see the Hawks focus less on measurables.
If he’s going to be a solid pro, just take him and who cares about the arms? That’s the argument.
Can I ask about Harvin and a mutiny though? First I’ve heard of it.
Fighting Golden Tate, the whole RW ‘ain’t black enough,’ not going back into games. Had Marshawn Lynch upset about a lot of things.
Mutiny might not have been the best word, but he is without a doubt the epitome of a guy that will destroy a culture.
They care. It helps them sort through the weeds.
Its who they are and what they’ve done. All teams have certain requirements.
Any my point here is, it-s much more than the measurables. If it was only that, they’d take every guy at every position with the best SPARQ score or longtest arms, best 40 time, etc.
Last thing I’ll say on the subject.
There’s nothing unique about a Whitehair for example. He’s the kind of guy that’s in every draft, every single year.
He might be a ‘safe’ prospect, but no risk, no reward. Solid should be something you get on day 3.
I heard Percy and Lynch were tight and that Lynch even threw a temper tantrum (the bus situation) when the Harvin trade became known.
If it were so easy to find solid OL on day three, then why can’t we and most of them are misses? Seems like Whitehair is going to turn into a better OL than James Carpenter and I’ve heard plenty people talk about how we can’t complain about Carpenter because he has turned into an NFL player even though he’ll never be good enough to sniff a Pro Bowl.
Here we go again 🙂
I can understand why middling athletes will not be able to cut it in the NFL.
However, if a great athlete (say Ifedi) is there at the end of the 1st round, it is because he is not technically smooth (raw or slow learner).
In the past you have ignored my reservations regarding those players but i will elaborate it once more.
As a volleyball coach I can tell you that some players will learn a technique quickly, assimilate it and execute it quickly and instinctively from muscle memory. Those players will implement that technique naturally and will able to dedicate their concentration to adapting to the changing situational nature of every play.
Others, as physically talented (or more) will be slow to assimilate the new technique and would require endless repetitions over a long period of time before they execute it naturally. Those players will usually look a bit stiff, display unexplained little flaws (stutter steps, poor kick step, wrong pad level etc.) and will usually be much slower to react to changing conditions on the field.
It is a physical trait just like strength or quickness. Some have it, some don’t.
I said it last year about Ifedi. The technical flaws he showed after years in a great program like Alabama is a clear indication he belongs in the 2nd group. We saw it all year. When the play evolved exactly as he prepared for, he was dominating. When it was not he looked slow and lost.
I am not saying those players are a lost case. I am saying everything takes them much longer. Ifedi will be much better next year and the year after it.
The TEF monster we may pick this year late in the 1st or later will undoubtedly be a liability if he has to start on week one. He will need the time to be NFL ready.
So, if you want a future starter – go and get one. If you want a day one starter, you need him to be technically sound because it shows he can learn and assimilate faster than the “raw” TEF monsters.
I haven’t ignored those reservations. I agree that there will always be a reason why a player like Ifedi is there at #31 instead of going in the top-10 when he has such a freakish physical profile.
(He played for Texas A&M BTW, not Alabama)
However, I do not agree that just because this may be true there is no chance of a player like this being able to start quickly or that a lesser athlete is more likely to be good quickly. We’re getting into territory that we just can’t measure. Ifedi may or may not be a slow learner. But to try and assert a take on that based around his physical profile and draft position is just supposition or speculation. One of their previous ‘athletes’ on the OL was a 7th round DT-convert who started as a rookie and while hardly dominating the league, he wasn’t a liability in a 2012 team that nearly made an improbable Super Bowl run. He ended up getting a FA contract worth $6.5m APY.
Who knows whether the next TEF-lineman will be a quick or slow learner? It’s impossible to say.
That DT covert earned the t-shirt “It ain’t easy being Sweezy” and was a huge liability on day one. He did get better as I hope Ifedi will. I have not problem with picking based on TEF. It has a better future potential than settling for inferior athletes that are unlikely to ever be great.
To me, unless a draft class is amazingly deep with offensive linemen, you draft a compromise at 26. Every team is looking for a TEF-lineman that proved to be able to learn and execute the techniques he was taught.
The obvious compromise for the Seahawks is going for TEF at the cost of taking longer to be technically sound. Its fine as long as you do not plan to have the guy starting on day one for a team at the peak of its championship window.
The only option of a TEF monster that may be a quick learner is to try a guy that did not show poor technique after years of training. Hence Gilliam and Fant.
I’m not sure about the T-shirt reference — but yes he struggled in week one facing one of the (at the time) truly elite DT’s in the league. He improved dramatically very quickly.
I think you’re focusing too much on a supposed correlation between a lack of technique and extreme athleticism. I think this is a red herring.
I would be thrilled if next year we could have an OL that is considered mediocre. That would be a huge improvement.
Rob is obviously on to something with the TEF equation. Problem is, it doesn’t really predict how good a player will become. It just sets a theoretical ceiling based on physical variables. Using TEF as a guide for the OL on players they are looking at in day 3 of the draft or as an UDFA seems like a solid idea. But relying primarily on athleticism at the expense of technique and playing ability has played a big part of why we have the worst OL in the entire league.
The Seahawks would argue every college O-liners technique is bad. Cable has argued that point in the past. That essentially, everything has to restart. So if you’re going to re-train a prospect, make it one with the ceiling to be great.
I don’t believe Seattle’s line has struggled because they haven’t taken enough middling athletes that are ‘sound’ blockers at the college level. After all, Glow and Ifedi were not bad college players, despite what people might tell you. Britt was actually a fairly solid left tackle for Missouri. I don’t think the line would’ve been any better last season either if someone like Cody Whitehair was playing instead of Ifedi. Seattle’s issue last year is pretty clear. Wilson’s injury and the RB injuries had an impact — so did the fact Seattle fielded a line consisting of a rookie UDFA LT, a first year starter LG, a first year starter at center, a rookie RG and a second year RT.
As i elaborated above – If you need to teach everything from scratch and you want the guy to start in week one – He needs to show he can learn and implement technique quickly.
If he does not show that he has leaned the “wrong” technique to a high level after years in college, why would you expect him to be able to learn the “right” technique in a few months to the level he will need to survive Donald on week 2?
I thought Ifedi’s technique for the most part in college was no better or worse than a lot of the other recent first round offensive linemen.
We’re discussing this like it’s a black or white subject. That a middling athlete is automatically great with their technique and vice versa. This isn’t true. A middling college OL playing in the Big-10 isn’t facing great athletes on the DL every week. Put him inside and he’s even more protected, or give him TE help every snap. It can hide warts easily. Put Ifedi against the SEC working the edge and compare that? Impossible.
Going through and doing a lot of simulated drafts is telling. The talent and depth in this draft is on the defensive side of the ball- disproportionately so. If the Seahawks want to fill needs on offense they need to target a couple FA’s as there wont be hardly any impact offensive players in this draft.
Defense – defense – defense! Despite the OL issues, I think the consensus opinions of everyone is that this draft will be very deep on good defensive players. We all know help is needed in all 3 levels of the defense, the DL, LB and of course DB’s. I think the only thing to prevent the Hawks from going all defense in the first few rounds would be a top 15 talent falling in their lap at 26 or a top 40 talent being there at 58.
Rounds 2 & 3 will be filled with defenders. No, let me correct that. Loaded.
And if we can trade back and have 5 day 2 picks (2 2nds and 3 3rds)….I’ll be ecstatic.
🙂
Congrates Rob on your new daughter. I have two sons, and I know how special children are.
I would like to see the Hawks trade as many picks necessary to acquire more higher picks (fewer picks total) since keeping their lower round picks would result in just back up players. The Hawks need impact players, though they have been pretty successful in finding starters in later rounds, but other GM’s are starting to use the same talent evaluations and making it more difficult to find hidden gems. 4 or 5 higher picks total is all that is needed.
Is it possible to end up with any combination of:
1(26) Reddick/ Cunningham LB, and trade up for 2(8) King CB and a 2(12) Demarcus Walker DE or Jackson FS/CB.
Perhaps use one of the top 2nd rd picks for Cory Davis WR , an impact WR opposite Baldwin and Graham who is also big and hard to cover.
Somehow I would like to see them draft a RB Perine or Hunt.
Thanks Rob
I’d be thrilled with Corey Davis, but I think he’s a top 20 prospect. A back like Perine would be sweet if the draft value is right.
Congratulations, and I hope find time to nap!
I love these articles. I’m counting days until the combine if for nothing else the measurements so we can add/eliminate potential targets.
I’m very high on Howard and Njoku and what a surprising wildcard choice one of those guys would be!
With DB so loaded this year, maybe we just let guys fall closer to our standard range and load up with a couple day 2, day 3 selections? Of course if a standout is there and it meets arguably our biggest need this could be the year we break trend. I’m excited about that!
Because of positional value a LB drafted in the first round had better be special. Cunningham and Reddick certainly are (besides Foster), but I’m not completely sold on the others. How rare is an elite TE? Graham is 30+. Given the choice of LB or top shelf TE at 26: give me the TE. LBs (and DBs) more commonly found throughout any given draft, though there are clear exceptions (Graham, Gronk, etc).
Anyone looked into Avery Gennesy from Texas A&M. Could be a mid range OT prospect.
Just watched his tape versus Bama. Would be interesting to have two Aggie linemen. Looks a lot like Ifedi when he was there, has the physical frame but is raw in his fundamentals. Looks like a 3-4 round guy to develop like Odhiambo was last year. Maybe it’s their offensive style at A&M, but I wonder why their tackles rarely do a traditional kick step in pass sets. Ifedi at A&M and this LT prospect Gennesy stomped their feet a bunch like they got firecrackers beneath them. Wonder if that’s because they’re not a pro style offense.
“Stompin snakes” as Cable would say.
Interesting question.
Some tall & heavy guys feel uncomfortable take bigger/longer steps that leave their center of balance unstable. It takes them longer to stabilize after pushing their mass in one hard push. They tend to compensate by taking quicker and shorter stutter steps keeping their legs under their center of mass.
It could still work for them in the college level especially if they start from a two point stance. It will be two slow in the next level when they need to start from a 3 point stance.
More like mechanical, unnatural movements made due to lack of coordination.
Lack of coordination will breed a whole list of unnatural movements that those guys do not exhibit.
Kick step is something that even a lesser coordinated player should be performing after 3 years of countless repetitions.
Its a strange one unless the coaching team allowed the players to do what they felt natural doing and did not insist of the proper kick step technique.
Super Bowl prediction, Rob?
Tough one.
Hard to go against Belichick and Brady with two weeks prep. That said, BB keys in on a teams best weapon on offense and Atlanta is LOADED. So I’ll say Falcons.
I think the Patriots have lost a Ton of dynamism without Gronkowski and Collins.
I don’t see how they keep up with ATL.
I expect it to look much like their recent win over the Seahawks.
The flood just doesn’t stop down there.
I’m strongly in favor of and rooting for an Atlanta win. It should be a good game. I hope Atlanta can stop the run regularly. If they do that I think they can balance the clock and score enough to win. Atlanta has more great players at multiple positions and even if they somehow take away or limit Julio or Freeman/Coleman – and I don’t see them doing both for an entire game – they can pull it off. One of the better non-Seattle matchups in awhile.
You don’t see how they keep up? They still have Edleman, and Martellus. They have the #1 defense and Atlanta’s D is abysmal, the only hope Atlanta has is making it a shootout and even then i think that favors the Pat’s given the fact that their defense is objectively better. I hope its a good game but I have a feeling it won’t be a very close game. How quickly we forget the record of the #1 offense vs the #1 defense in the Superbowl
It’s a game of mismatches and the falcons have more of them.
I also wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment that New England’s defense is definitely better.
Trufant-Neal-Allen-Alford is a very solid secondary.
Vic Beasley led the league in sacks.
It’s not all black and white there man.
And even though this next argument is fundamentally flawed I’m making it.
NE lost to SEA at home; ATL did not
🙂
For some reason I think of Atlanta as a young team full of energy and high spirits. I think of New England as older but experienced. Which will prevail?
Well New England may have already seen Atlanta’s playbook, so the coaches will have to spend some time worrying about that.
One player I maybe should’ve given more attention to on this list is Pittsburgh’s Dorian Johnson.
5-star recruit, capable of moving to tackle. Smart and tough — just like they like.
Might be a dark horse option.
OL?
Ooh, 6’5 300 and #3 (OG) on NFLDS:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127423&draftyear=2017&genpos=OG
I was thinking the same thing. He may be better suited as a tackle due to his size. RT in Rd 2 if Garcia is gone. I still hold out hope that C-Ham/Reddick will fall to 26.
Congratulations to you and yours Rob! Thank you, for making time to continue to your work!
Dorian Johnson is a name that has been mentioned on here before, so we’ll definitely have to keep monitoring him. Thanks again, man!
Would like to see more game film on Fabian Moreau, CB from UCLA. Any Bruins fans out there have any thoughts? On paper he seems like a good fit for us. I wonder if he comes into play for us if we trade down.
He’s a gambler. Especially early in his college days, he was giving receivers a lot of space and relying on his speed to save him.
He gets his hands on the ball, but not a lot of INTs. Like 1 for his whole career??
He has always looked smooth to me.
Mature and Well Spoken. Little low on the swagger for a DB.
He’s big, physical, and fast. Would be a good selection IMO.
The Hawks routinely fill all of their needs going into a draft with lower level FAs so they don’t have to fight the draft board. So it would seem to me that they will sign an OT, CB, S, and a LB at some point in FA. The amount they spend on each will be telling to me as to where they see the strengths of the draft. By that I mean if they go big at OL, say Reiff and also sign Poe (DT) and Nick Perry (LB); but go bargain basement on DBs, they could be expected to target DBs early in the draft.
I think my prediction for the superbowl is new england gets off to a strong first quarter start and the game opens 13-0. After that I have no idea, I just have a feeling Atlanta will start slow.
From the listed guys available for Seattle in the 1st round…
Obi Melifonwu (DB, Connecticut), Zach Cunningham (LB, Vanderbilt) and Tyus Bowser (LB, Houston) all stand out to me. They are all reasonably going to be available at 26. Any “decent” OT that is borderline 1st round or higher will be gone. The league has so few of these guys (legit OT prospects) that teams will reach for them mid 1st round. I would hazard to say, watch any team with 2 1st round picks, they could dip into the OT draft market early.
I’m also thinking Riddick will be gone by 26. If he indeed measures / compares to Ryan Shazier favorably…. he will be snatched up by someone. A pass rushing LB could even be a target for the Steelers, who have Shazier currently. These guys are very rare and normally go higher than we anticipate. What might hurt him is the recent trend for more teams going back to the 4-3 defense, since he might be more of a OLB in a 3-4. But if the guy can play, it won’t matter.
Rob Rang’s latest Big Board (2/1/17 )has Reddick en fuego:
“30. Haason Reddick , LB, Temple, rSr., 6-1, 237, 4.54
Reddick starred as an undersized edge rusher for the Owls (recording 22.5 tackles for loss and 10.5 sacks in 2016) but it was the agility and acceleration he showed playing off the ball in Mobile that has his stock skyrocketing as one of the few true three-down linebackers in this class.
”
He has Z. Cunningham 11, Tim Williams at 31, Bolles 37, Melifonwu 49, Buddah 61
I love this site, and while I may not comment very often, I love the comment section just as much. I’m just going to drop this here:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779791/article/nfl-move-the-sticks-scouting-competition
To Rob, Vol and countless other guys, you should totally do this. Many of you are so qualified.
That is all, congrats and thanks for the site Rob!
Rob. What round do you think Dorian Johnson will go in?
1-2 if he tests well
With the Hawks first three picks they need to grab the most talented players on the board. Especially if they are defensive players. Now is the time to start rebuilding the defense. The Hawks need more young playmakers on defense.
I’ll bet JS saw this coming and that’s why they drafted so heavy on offense last year.
What would it take to move up in front of the Broncos?
Prob our 3rd-round pick (maybe with a 6th or 7th thrown in). 2014, took #26 and #83 to move from #26 to #22 in one deal, and in another it took #27 and #91 to move from #27 to #20, which is almost exactly what we’d need (moving from #26 to #19, at least).
Too rich for me. Especially with this draft.
St. Francis S Lorenzo Jerome is really good. Liked his stuff. Big time ballhawk, his football IQ looks to be just off the charts, but he sure as hell plays like it. Great closing speed. Explosive. Was MVP of the NFLPA bowl which got him his call-up to the SR bowl.
Granted, it was against Rob Morris, but that game he showed up big time as a single high safety.
If this wasn’t such a deep safety class, he’d be much higher. Gonna be a steal for someone this year.
Right, he was the one that had 2 INT and a FF at Sr. Bowl.
Agree he is tough to grade because of competition. Some of the KR on his tape are just silly cause he’s that much better athlete than everyone else out there.
Be interesting to see how he tests because he certainly has the instincts.
Remember watching his tape earlier in the year before the Earl Thomas injury, thinking he’s a great athlete that seattle could develop but not really a need player… then Steven Terrell happened. re watching his tape he looks really good. even though it’s against lower competition his instincts, ball skills and athleticism are all transferable. Definitely one of the more versatile safeties as well. Would probably prefer him in the 3rd/4th over Budda in the 2nd.
Another small school sleeper. A lot of them this year. I was glad to see him selected to participate in the SB. He really showed against the higher level of competition.
I really liked the way Kazee competed also. Whoever selects him is going to get a steal. I think he is going to slide down the board a bit because of his size. Dude can ball!!!
Hi was watching some Sooners games today to watch Perrine as I thought he might be an ideal 3rd round RB to go with Rawls and CMike. I was fairly impressed and he would provide a different element to the RB group.
But by far the thing that stood out most though was just how good Joe Mixon is. Wow he is the complete package and so smooth and natural in everything he does on the football field. Fournette is an absolute beast and freak athlete, Dalvin Cook is a home run threat every time he gets a carry. But Mixon is the most talented complete package of the 3 IMO. He has uncanny patience similar to Laveon Bell and sets up his blockers so well. He has so few carries for a loss as a result. He has WR hands in the pass game, blocks well and is going to test faster than expected I think. The only RB I have watched and like more coming out of college is Zeke Elliot.
I know what he did was disgusting and he his likely off the Seahawks draft board but someone is going to take a chance on him in Day #2. He is just too talented for someone not to as long as he keeps his nose clean and interviews ok. If he stays out of trouble and is a good citizen I think he will be the 2017-2018 offensive rookie of the year.
Not going to happen but he is exactly the type of 3 down back we need.
You won’t find any arguments from me on this. Mixon is a fantastic talent. For me Fournette and Cook are the clear #1 and #2 in this class, but Mixon is a worthy #3. He’s a fantastic player. And somebody, presuming he gets a shot in the NFL, could end up with a top RB.
That team will also have to deal with the stigma of what happened and the negative attention and possible distraction. It will be less, of course, if he’s an UDFA or 6th or 7th round pick. But if he goes earlier than that, it will create a major storm around the team that takes him.
I am personally not against Seattle drafting him. I don’t think they will, however.
I agree Rob I think what Tyrek Hill did for example was much worse as it was true domestic violence issue with a pregnant girl friend but that video of Mixon will never go away no matter how good a citizen he is going forward and when you watch it there is no way to feel anything but disgusted.
Love the football player but he would be an incredibly huge distraction and a huge PR nightmare for the Seahawks so probably not worth the risk.
Yeah, JS said they wouldn’t take a player who actually hit a female. He said this when answering questions about frank Clark.
Yeah… Their ‘independent’ investigation into Clark was about as deep and involved as mine, and I did nothing. The way they managed to bury that is exactly what makes me think they might fancy taking a shot at Mixon.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they did. The Hawks don’t care about violence against women, they only care about how it makes them look. If Mixon starts slipping into the third, fourth, fifth… They’re going to have a conversation about how to sell it. Changed man, terrible mistake, everyone deserves a second chance, he’ll be working with women’s shelters etc. etc.
Maybe, although I think there are striking differences between the Clark pick and this — the video being the main one. This is a team that has handled distractions for years and in 2016 — it seemed like one or two key distractions consumed them. I think they’ll try to avoid any drama in 2017. Drafting Mixon would be the total opposite of that.
I think the biggest thing that held them back this year was injuries. The season got away from them, they couldn’t play the way they thought they should be, the way they wanted to be. They’re the biggest circus in town, and that’s not going to change any time soon. It’s as unique a collection of personalities and egos as we’ve seen in the NFL for a good long while.
I think the video is the only major difference between the two tbh. Will that be enough to stop the Hawks from addressing a key area of need? I’m not so sure.
There are significant differences between the two cases. It’s not just about there being a video.
Night and day
Any team that considers drafting Cook should and will consider drafting Mixon IMO.
Their two situations are very similar. Cooks Overall situation might very well be worse.
Very different
Well, I disagree, but I suppose these are the sort of conversations the Hawks will be having. And as icb says, it’s going to be a similar situation with Cook.
On a positive note is him taking the punishment, showing remorse and moving on with nothing but quality things about him. Then of course the video gets released and Stoops throws him under the bus because of the public outcry. Not making excuses and will never understand how a man can hit a woman (at the same time, don’t know how a man hits another man because you support a different team, but I digress), but it was a solitary incident over 2 years ago and he paid the price. Basically like Frank Clark (except no video), maybe a 4th for Mixon.
“On a positive note is him taking the punishment, showing remorse and moving on with nothing but quality things about him.”
This is debatable for many different reasons.
The incident happened over two years ago. His drafting will be a non-event other then a few whiny reporters trying to drag up controversy.
It is much more likely that some other player that we don’t know of yet will get in trouble for domestic violence in the next two months and they will be the ones under fire. Fresh blood sells more print.
“The incident happened over two years ago. His drafting will be a non-event other then a few whiny reporters trying to drag up controversy.”
I think it would be very naive to imagine his drafting will be a ‘non-event’.
Frank clarks was nobody even mentions his case even more and I really only remember it coming up right after he was drafted
The best thing for him is to not be drafted. Then, he would select the team that is best suited for him. That team would need to have a great locker room presence, with Vets that will be able to actually help acclimate him to professional sports. One that would help him with life in general.
Most assault cases have dealt with individuals that were in a relationship together. Then, it would escalated into domestic violence for whatever reason. Society isn’t easily forgiving in none of D.V. cases, especially when those involved had no prior relationships, and the parties involved are a black man causing injury to a young white woman.
There are only a few areas in the country, as well as teams, that they would be able to assimilate him as part of their community, their football team. I did mention this some time ago. There are two teams, and perhaps a third that are potential landing spots for Mixon.
PACKERS – This is a small market city that loves football. This is a place where he can go and concentrate just on football, and not have many distractions. Also, he would be lethal in their play action offense with C-Rod.
SEAHAWKS – Yes, the Hawks. There are a few “whiny” reporters as you mentioned that do like to stir the pot. But, by enlarge, the media and community is more enduring than most. And, there is no better locker room best suited than the Seahawks’. The coaching staff also would be well suited to help him adjust to the world of professional sports. However, I do not see him drafted by JS. But, I’m sure there would be conversations with him as a possible UDFA. Also, Marshawn is his mentor, and in all likelihood would vouch for the hawks as the place to play.
PATRIOTS – This is that possible third place that is opposite of the environment of the Hawks, yet a very strong and disciplined environment that perhaps can also work for him. Another place that I would hate to see him land.
All that being said, I hope he’s able to make his own choice for the location of his future development, as a player, and as a man, since it will have a stormy beginning for him wherever he goes. I think Pete can help this young man though. There’s always hope.
I think the Patriots are the most likely place for him to land at the end of Rd #2 and that is a scary thought. Mixon in that system would be absolutely scary both rushing and receiving.
I’m bummed you both mentioned the Patriots! That’s the exact team that I think will take him in the third. Boston fans are crazy but The noise to me would be fast, loud, and out of control…..for about a week. Then it would be baseball season and by the time Mixon is playing it will feel tired when ESPN’s first take brings up (the terrible, BTW) event at that point nearly 2.5 years later. Or some such other site, MMQB, et al. What Tyreke Hill did was disgusting. One time last year I read an article with a thin premise about whether or not it was acceptable to appreciate Hill’s game knowing what we know about him. The supposed outrage never materialized at his crime and that is why I propose a team like the Patriots will draft Mixon knowing that the outcry will be minimal.
I don’t disparage anyone who thinks Mixon should bot be touched with a ten foot pole. I can even respect that perspective. But to think a player with one event not connected to a pattern is going undrafted when another player choked his then pregnant girlfriend got drafted in the 5th is at best guessing.
The Mixon conversation comes up it seems every three weeks. Realistically I don’t expect Seattle to draft him or sign him even if he is UDFA. However, JS’s comments are in reference to Domestic Violence. And those mentioning Mixon at a women’s shelter or what not have, it seems, no clue as to what Mixon did. Women are at Shelters to be housed while avoiding dangerous housing situations with violent partners who take their rage out on them or their children and/or are prone to or believe to be willing to escalate their violence. Women are not at shelters because a person they don’t know hit them at a bar. Mixon at a shelter would be one of the most tone deaf gestures any team could make and frankly that gesture would be the thing were it to happen I would want some “outcry,” for.
I’m sorry if my post was worth deleting. There was no malice intended at all. I just hope the best for the young man in his professional endeavor, since it will ultimately be benefitual for her as if succeeds. Healing is difficult when open sores are not allowed to heal.
No doubt Mixon has shown remorse. But remember the uproar over Clark and there was no video. In the case of Mixon you have the video. Don’t know what to say.
Considering the state of the nation, I really doubt Mixon will be much of a story. I keep seeing fans bring up past issues. There are just so many other big stories going on in the USA right now. And as I said above, chances are there will be a fresh face for the press to jump on before the draft. Two and a half months and all those college age men, surely there will be something surfacing.
Why don’t we talk about the Baylor sports team and recruiting? Now there is a story with some legs that will go on and on. They can report on that for a year or two. In the big picture of sports stories – Mixon is small game.
For the NFL, Domestic Violence will not fade away from view until a bonified method to thwart such acts is clearly defined by the league. That systemic approach would govern those committing acts of violence against women in the NFL, and for those aspiring to become part of the NFL.
At present, there is no such written policy to adhere to that will deter young 18-21yr old college students from realizing how detrimental such an act would become. All such acts are regulated solely by the Commissioner.
The NFLPA, Commissioner and the NCAA should devise a policy that clearly spells the consequences of these acts of violence. Only then can that air of invincibility be done away with by athletes against women, and in general every man against a woman.
Sadly, you’re right about future events. Stuff continues to happen. It will take a collective group to stave off the harm that comes from violence. So, why not the very industries that produce and profit from such a violent form of entertainment?
Sadly enough the NFL is a private “good old boys club”. They are more interested in the kaching and the thrill of ownership. Goodell has already signaled his non interest in pursuing DV cases. He certainly wont for people who aren’t even in the NFL yet. Oh sure he will complain and wring his hands for the camera. Then he will say it is up to the colleges and the legal system to punish the young lads. Rest assured Mixon will have a career in the NFL as long as he doesn’t commit DV again. And second or third round is where he will be picked.
Thank you. I never want to reference politics. But I often think exactly that what is currently going on in this country (on both sides), the speed of information, the distance from the event, and as you stated Baylor and the general disinterest towards that school’s problems….I think this will be a non-story come draft time.
So my issue with this whole thing is, i personally believe its wrong to hit a woman, No doubt about that. That being said, in a day and age where you can’t go 10 min without seeing or hearing “women’s equality” this and that, why shouldn’t this just be treated the same as if he hit a male? This isn’t like clark or tyreek, it is not domestic violence. There was not a relationship. Shouldn’t it be treated as if Mixon was being mocked and slandered by a person, regardless of sex, and stupidly lashed out instead of walking away?
Would it be unfair to put C-Mike up against MikeB in a on one drill? They are both football players, but with different physical capabilities. Treating others with dignity would take in account the others limitations.
No.
Nice HD 2016 highlights up for Kareem Hunt if anyone wants to enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcbJKIl5t90
He’s got good balance doesn’t he? Gets upfield in a hurry which I like. Like the way he watches the ball into his hands when he’s receiving as well.
How big is he? Because he looks really small out there.
Did anyone see that Hooker had surgery and is out 3-6 month’s, how far could this cause him to fall.
I’d venture a guess: not past the Chargers at #8.
Plus, he should be ready for the season anyway, barring any unforeseen setbacks.
It might to some extent since we won’t see him at the combine but he was told he would be ready for training camp.
Could be true. I guess in my mind he has nothing left to prove at the combine anyway. His tape says it all.
If anything, the combine would reaffirm people’s thoughts on him.
He’s a solid top ten lock even with the injury.
That’s a blue chip safety right there.
Apparently the Hawks tried to resign Luke Willson but it might have been too low for Willson. He said he wants to resign with Seattle but will explore all of his options.
Based on Luke comments, PCJS low-balled him with a not-so-serious offer to gauge his interest mid-season. It’s not that surprising since they have resourced tied to the TE position already. Nick Vannett will take over at the in-line y-TE spot this season unless something funky happens in the draft (Howard/Njoku).
Interesting idea, exploring 1st-round options. In the end, Ben’s musings about retirement might be the best thing that happens to us this offseason. As much as I’ve thought about it, it seems there is no way our top need (OT) is going to match up to our #26 draft slot. From my perspective, may be only two guys that would be worth it there, and both would likely be gone.
Which means, once again, our best move is probably to trade down and try to pick up an extra 3rd. Which means we need teams in the early 2nd such as Cleveland, Chicago and NY to fear KC and Pittsburgh taking their QB of the Future at the end of the 1st, so they can swoop in at #26 and grab one.
Given that line of thinking, made me wonder: who could be on the board at #26 that would make you refuse to trade down? (And no cheating; no thinking you can trade down and still get the guy. The idea is that he is gone forever if you trade down.)
I’ve got:
QB – none; RB – Fournette; TE – Howard; OT – Ramczyk, Bolles; OG/C – none; WR – M. Williams
DE – Garrett, Allen, Thomas; LB – Foster; S – Hooker, Adams; CB – Lattimore (?), Jones (the Fla. guys?)
CB is where I’m most unsure. Don’t know the measurements, so hard to say how they’ll fit here. You make any changes/additions/subtractions to that list?
I’ve been thinking about this a lot too. With so much talent, there’s bound to be some great options that fall to Seattle at 26 (even if it isn’t at a position of great need).
It’s tough to answer until at least after the combine though, especially on the defensive line and at CB.
I agree, we are constantly saying this guy is top 25 and that guy is top 25. There can only be 25 in the top 25. So 26 will deliver some serious quality
Great analogy, Greg. I think the same thing every year. Someone will be there. And as the case every single off-season, I keep changing my mind who I hope is there with their pick. Today it’s back to a cornerback. Tomorrow it may be a guard, Saturday a tackle, and Sunday a SAM who has pass rushing skills. Monday it’ll be Budda Baker again. They we’ll repeat the cycle.
“qb-none.” perfect
Reading an article on NFL.com
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000781911/article/denver-broncos-lead-list-of-top10-pass-rushing-teams
Seattle wasn’t in the ” Top-11 teams at creating pressure by their pass rushers’ average raw yards of distance from the opposing quarterback at the time of throw or sack. Notes: Only plays where the quarterback was inside the pocket at the time of sack or throw were included.”
The Seahawks have a bigger issue with pass rush than I realized.
Most of theses top teams have a solid to great interior pass rush
Don’t know if that’s the best stat, given Cleveland are on the list.
It’s really just a measure of how much the pocket is likely to be squeezed on a passing play. Cleveland ranking high just shows they squeeze the pocket more consistently than most teams. If you’re closer to the quarterback you’re more likely to be able create a pressure on a passing play. but you still need the elite edge rusher to finish the job.
Thank you LeoSharp, I was going to post the same article here.
It confirms what my eyes told me. The Seahawks are 4th in the NFL in sacks but it still felt like too many times opposing QBs had a nice clean pocket to work from.
Since Avril and Bennett are not getting any younger, we need to reduce their snaps to under 70% to keep them fresh and effective. It is part of the reason why A SAM/LEO with pass rushing capabilities would be a great day 1-2 pick and i will not be upset if they surprise us all and go for an EDGE in the top 2 rounds.
They’re missing a Clint McDonald/Jordan Hill (when healthy) type more than anything. Frank Clark is a star in the making.
They’re differently on it. DT Carlos Watkins had a productive season with 10.5 sacks. That explains their interest in talking with him at the Senior Bowl.
The back end has a role in this as well. Tighter coverage will give more time to get to the quarterback. Not having ET has affected their tight cover skills. His range covered over a lot of mistakes.
A healthy ET and tighter press coverage, will give pass rushers more time to get to the QB. LB coverages over the middle are an area of concern as well. Another reason why I’m so high on C-Ham due to his length and ability to drop in coverage.
Jeremiah’s mock draft doesn’t even have him taken in the 1st Rd! Nor does Lance Zierlein. Meliforwu has great potential as a safety, but, C-Ham ALL day long @ 26 instead of Obi! If C-Ham wasn’t available, perhaps. I’m more inclined to trade down and pick him later and gain another pick in the process.
This could be a mute point if Miami scoops him up @ 22. But, there’s a growing number that think otherwise. In reality, I’m good with it. I’m sure the Hawks would be too.
RB Fumble rates in 2016 courtesy of Mike Margittai:
Worst fumble rates 4 top #NFLDraft RB prospects: Kamara 1/29, Mixon 1/45, Foreman 1/46, Fournette 1/48, Mack 1/51, Cook 1/54, McNichols 1/70
Best fumble rates 4 top #NFLDraft RB prospts: Hunt 0/303, Brian Hill 1/357, McCaffrey 1/291, Gallman 1/126, Jam Williams 1/121, Perine 1/103
Crazy that so many of the top RB’s had ball-security issues this season. Some very interesting names in the group of low fumble rates.
Interesting stats there. Another reason to love Perine!
Like him more every day.
Sometimes one more fumble will skew the hell out of these stats
Such a correctable, coachable issue.
Hasn’t Seattle drafted 3 guys, in Collins, Prosise, and C-Mike that had ‘ball security’ issues?
5 points of pressure on the ball. Not 3.
When the Seahawks took Frank Clark I was juming for joy. However when you watch the video of Mixon it is just plain SICKENING!. The uproar over Frank Clark would be a drop in the bucket compared to that video of Mixon. That video is something Mixon will have to live with for the rest of his life.
Agreed. Everything is on video now and that one of Mixon was brutal, even if strongly provoked like he was there is no reason in the world to do what he did. Most people deserve another chance but will it be in the High profile NFL attached to a team and its reputation along with a wealthy salary? That remains to be seen. His talent is undeniable.
Hey Rob what are your thoughts on the RB semaje perine from Oklahoma?
I’ve gone back and forth on him. Sometimes you watch and there’s very little to get excited about. Others, he’s a beast. Still not totally decided on an opinion on him.
He looks like he’s playing too heavy to me, weird body shape.
I know John would love to have Mixon. Do you think there any senario where John Schneider & Co. Would take a flyer on Mixon? Especiallly when you consider the outrage of the Frank Clark pick.
I think it’s highly unlikely.
Schneider said he’d never take a player that hit a woman.
Surprised TJ Watt didn’t make Rob’s list of LB prospects. Seems like the kind of raw, high upside, ascendant player the Hawks like. Has the height they covet, too. What are the negatives? Too stiff in coverage? He’d be a Sam presumably. Can he disengage well?
High motor, good pop in his hands, nice physicality, but is he getting name recognition?
I’m not sure he’s very athletic. Might be for a team like GB or Pittsburgh?. Purely a 3-4 OLB. Not very twitchy, leaves a ton of surface area for OT’s to place their punch, footwork is all wrong when he rushes. Day 3.
He’s a weird one to figure out. Could be underrated or overrated.
Since Seattle grades against their own roster, he’s too similar to Cassius Marsh minus the agility and explosion.
Even as JJ’s brother, he’s not a twitchy athlete and more of a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 EDGE than a SAM/LEO. Wouldn’t want him working in space personally.
That’s where he reminds me of his brother, the way he uses his hand to disengage.
The big Easely was like if Earl had Kams hitting ability just an unbelievable force on the field. I was watching a football life and Marcus Allen was talking about in the AFC championship how he knew the way the play lined up he knew he would be up against Easely, and then it shows him run into the pile and he walked out with a black eye