This image sums up the way Haason Reddick plays
I did a combine-related podcast with the UK Seahawkers earlier today that’ll drop tomorrow. In the meantime here’s an updated two-round mock draft.
The projection contains trades. Explanations below…
Trades explained
San Francisco trades #2 to Washington for Kirk Cousins
Daniel Jeremiah suggested yesterday there’s a greater than 50% chance Kirk Cousins is traded to San Francisco. If it happens this year, it’ll have to be for the #2 pick won’t it? And if a parting with Washington is inevitable next year, aren’t they better off getting what they can now?
Arizona trades #13 and a third round pick to Cincinnati for #9
The Bengals are happy to move down and the Cardinals want to get ahead of Buffalo to select a quarterback.
Cleveland trades #33 to New England for Jimmy Garoppolo
The Browns need an answer at quarterback and sweeten this deal by offering a conditional 2018 pick too.
Round one
#1 Cleveland — Myles Garrett (EDGE, Texas A&M)
#2 Washington (via San Fran) — Solomon Thomas (DE, Stanford)
#3 Chicago — Jonathan Allen (DE, Alabama)
#4 Jacksonville — Leonard Fournette (RB, LSU)
#5 Tennessee — Jamal Adams (S, LSU)
#6 New York Jets — Mitch Trubisky (QB, North Carolina)
#7 LA Chargers — Malik Hooker (S, Ohio State)
#8 Carolina — Garett Bolles (T, Utah)
#9 Arizona (via Cin) — Deshaun Watson (QB, Clemson)
#10 Buffalo — Deshone Kizer (QB, Notre Dame)
#11 New Orleans — Sidney Jones (CB, Washington)
#12 Cleveland — Marshon Lattimore (CB, Ohio State)
#13 Cincinnati (via Ari) — Taco Charlton (EDGE, Michigan)
#14 Indianapolis — Reuben Foster (LB, Alabama)
#15 Philadelphia (via Min) — Dalvin Cook (RB, Florida State)
#16 Baltimore — John Ross (WR, Washington)
#17 Washington — Marlon Humphrey (CB, Alabama)
#18 Tennessee — Corey Davis (WR, Western Michigan)
#19 Tampa Bay — David Njoku (TE, Miami)
#20 Denver — Ryan Ramcyzk (T, Wisconsin)
#21 Detroit — Charles Harris (EDGE, Missouri)
#22 Miami — Jarrad Davis (LB, Florida)
#23 New York Giants — O.J. Howard (TE, Alabama)
#24 Oakland — Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU)
#25 Houston — Patrick Mahomes (QB, Texas Tech)
#26 Seattle — Haason Reddick (LB, Temple)
#27 Kansas City — Mike Williams (WR, Clemson)
#28 Dallas — Justin Evans (S, Texas A&M)
#29 Green Bay — Gareon Conley (CB, Ohio State)
#30 Pittsburgh — Takkarist McKinley (EDGE, UCLA)
#31 Atlanta — Derek Barnett (DE, Tennessee)
#32 New England — Adoree’ Jackson (CB, LSU)
Round two
33. New England (via Cle) — Quincy Wilson (CB, Florida)
34. San Francisco — Tim Williams (EDGE, Alabama)
35. Jacksonville — Kevin King (CB, Washington)
36. Chicago — Obi Melifonwu (S, Connecticut)
37. LA Rams — Forrest Lamp (G, Western Kentucky)
38. LA Chargers — Malik McDowell (DT, Michigan State)
39. New York Jets — Christian McCaffrey (RB, Stanford)
40. Carolina — Cam Robinson (T, Alabama)
41. Cincinnati — Alvin Kamara (RB, Tennessee)
42. Philadelphia — Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia)
43. Buffalo — Budda Baker (S, Washington)
44. New Orleans — T.J. Watt (LB, Wisconsin)
45. Arizona — Zach Cunningham (LB, Vanderbilt)
46. Baltimore — Jabrill Peppers (S, Michigan)
47. Indianapolis — Cordrea Tankersley (CB, Clemson)
48. Minnesota — Dorian Johnson (G, Pittsburgh)
49. Washington — Tyus Bowser (LB, Houston)
50. Denver — Evan Engram (TE, Ole Miss)
51. Cleveland — D’Onta Foreman (RB, Texas)
52. Tampa Bay — Marcus Williams (S, Utah)
53. Detroit — Teez Tabor (CB, Florida)
54. Miami — Ryan Anderson (LB, Miami)
55. New York Giants — Demarcus Walker (DE, Florida State)
56. Oakland — Caleb Brantley (DT, Florida)
57. Houston — Marcus Maye (S, Florida)
58. Seattle — Taylor Moton (T, Western Michigan)
59. Kansas City — Dan Feeney (G, Indiana)
60. Dallas — Chidobe Awuzie (CB, Colorado)
61. Green Bay — Fabian Moreau (CB, UCLA)
62. Pittsburgh — Curtis Samuel (WR, Ohio State)
63. Atlanta — Chris Wormley (DT, Michigan)
64. New England — Gerald Everett (TE, South Alabama)
Seahawks round three picks (native pick & Bruce Irvin compensatory pick)
Howard Wilson (CB, Houston)
Shalom Luani (S, Washington State)
Seahawks notes
— The Seahawks address all of Pete Carroll’s stated needs (CB, LB, OL) in the first three rounds by taking Reddick, Moton, Wilson and Luani.
— Why is Reddick arguably the ideal pick at #26? He can line up the SAM, he can spell Wagner or Wright at the MIKE and WILL. He can rush the passer when asked, he can cover. He has the gritty backstory. He’s 6-1 and 237lbs — Bobby Wagner was 6-0, 241lbs entering the league. Carroll stated he wanted a guy to compete with their two studs at linebacker — Reddick can do this and fill the void left by Bruce Irvin.
— Seattle is stuck either side of the first and second rush on cornerbacks. We know, however, they are comfortable waiting on this position. They haven’t drafted a cornerback earlier than the fourth round under Carroll and John Schneider. Here they take one in round three.
— Taylor Moton might be better suited at guard but he has similar length and size to Justin Britt who they tried at right tackle. He can compete at 2-3 different spots, an aspect Seattle values.
— If Haason Reddick and Jarrad Davis weren’t there at #26, trading down would appeal. Seattle could move down a few spots and still target one of Kevin King, Quincy Wilson, Rasul Douglas, Obi Melifonwu, Budda Baker or Zach Cunningham (to name a few). So while the Seahawks don’t trade down in this projection — you can see how likely it might be if the likes of Reddick, Davis, Bolles and Ramcyzk are gone.
— I spent a bit more time studying Quincy Wilson yesterday and feel like I’ve been underrating him. However, the 4.6 he ran at the 2013 Nike combine (and his 32-inch vertical) could end up being a tie-breaker in a deep CB class. If he performs a lot better in Indianapolis keep an eye on him. He’s physical (unlike a lot of CB’s in this draft), long, has production (allowed fewer than 40% completions when challenged) and the confidence of a pro-corner.
I have to say if we got those 4 guys you would have to be very excited . That’s a very solid foursome.
I’d be ecstatic about this
I really like this mock. It would be a really big bummer to come out of this draft class with a OT who has to move inside just like Ifedi, Britt, Carp, etc. But if Ifedi is a liability and Moton could beat him out so the RG position gets better play, then so-be-it.
Obviously your opinion means more to me than NFL.com, but I thought it was interesting that the comp of Wilson is Jeremy Lane. His “weaknesses” scares me given our need for CB talent to compete and start in ’17:
>WEAKNESSES Has very limited experience relative to the rest of the cornerbacks in this draft. Missed most of 2015 with an ACL tear that teams will look into at the combine. Will require additional time to hone his pattern recognition and instincts down the field. Has a very thin frame with skinny legs. Lacks desired muscular definition and needs a full year of work in an NFL weight program to pack on necessary muscle. (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/howard-wilson?id=2558158)
So not only is he coming off an ACL tear but he needs at least a year in a NFL S&D program to build his body into NFL ready shape. Oh and NFL.com thinks he needs time to develop his skill-set and instincts. And if we drafted him he would be coming to the Seahawks, a team with a secondary that CB’s seem to need 2-3 years to develop in before they see the field. The patience with the kick-step technique, other strict rules and the hawk-tackling need time to be taught and learned.
That is all kinda “yikes” to me, unless Pete thinks highly of our CB depth and believes one of them (SJB, Elliot, Thorpe, Seisay, Pierre Desir & Demetrius McCray) can earn that CB2 job and be at least serviceable.
I’m high on Reddick and Luani so those are slam dunks to me. To be clear, what roles do you think Luani could provide besides backup FS? Could he replace McCray as the backup SS? You have mentioned how he could be a deathbacker right? And his nickel & outside coverage skills are…? Lastly does he bring any ST experience from college?
Some of the negatives on the NFL.com tracker feel a bit forced IMO. There for the sake of putting something. Wonder what they put for Sherman, Kam, KJ etc.
Will say this consistently — it’s better to focus on what a guy can do, not seek possible negatives like ‘he didn’t play as much as some other players in college due to an injury’.
Very true, and I wanted to make that clear that NFL.com has made a TON of mistakes (even just on Seahawks) and I read it with a grain of salt.
So, Rob, what about Luani’s skill-set? Besides being a free safety;
– Backup SS?
– Deathbacker?
– Slot skills?
– Outside corner skills?
– Any ST skills?
Buffalo.
Backup safety.
Core special teamer.
That cracks me up. His weakness is an injury that will have teams looking into it at the combine? As if that isn’t the reason why the combine exists in the first place? Every single guy there will be medically checked out healthy or not.
Those profiles on NFL.com might be the worst and I like Lance Zeirlein.
Nice picks. But I seiously doubt that Shalom Luani will still be on the board. I would be shocked if Luani is still available. However, I will have to check out Quincy Wilson .
Honest question – outside of this blog, where is Shalom Luani getting any draft buzz at all? I’m looking at draft boards hinder and yonder and hardly see mention of him.
I don’t know of any draft boards extending past 100, really
Shalom Luani projected draft round by analyst
Draft Analyst (Tony Pauline): FA
CBS big board: FA
Draftek: Not rated
Bleacher Report (Matt Miller): Not rated
Obviously just a sampling and I know it’s early and boards will be updated, but Luani might need to blow up the combine to get into this range in this draft.
Personally, I think he’ll be available late rounds.
I just dont think they have 7 rounds of players better than him.
How about 3 rounds?
Hardly anyone talked about Keanu Neal las year too…
Rob I remember you talking about Keanu Neal.
Not advocating it…
But why no consideration of Mike Williams? If they get a suitable Sam in FA of course
I think Williams is a little overrated. Also, Carroll specifically mentioned drafting for the linebacker position and not going the FA route.
Rob,
I know that Seattle generally waits until later rounds to draft CBs, but usually they are happy to let them sit a year and learn the system. Since the position is a bigger need than in previous years, what do you think the odds are that they will draft someone higher that is more ready to start immediately?
I’m not sure the round is tied to the ability to start quickly. I think Seattle’s technique is quite specific and needs time to master. So whoever starts early is going to have growing pains. And that, IMO, is why they might continue to wait and draft for traits.
They will only take a CB in round one IMO if they are a true athletic freak and/or grade really high.
I am not that sure anymore that they will draft a CB for depth on day 2.
If one looks at the Cbs on our roster, besides Elliott all acquired lately or coming back from IR and besides Cox all really athletic, with long arms and most of them with experience in our system:
DeAndre Elliott, 6-1, 189, 31,9 in arms, 4,55 sec 40 yd, 6,93 sec 3-cone, 41 in vert
Stanley Jean-Baptiste, 6-3, 215, 32,4 in arms, 4,61 sec 40 yd, 6,69 sec 3-cone, 41 in vert
Demetrius McCray, 6-2,185, 33,9 in arms, 4,54 sec 40 yd, 7,17 sec 3-cone, 36 in vert
Mohammed Seisey, 6-2, 202, 33,5 in arms, 4,52 sec 40 yd, 6,50 sec 3-cone, 39 in vert
Neiko Thorpe, 6-2, 202, 31,75 in arms, 4,39 sec 40 yd, 7,13 sec 3-cone, 38 in vert
Pierre Desir, 6-2, 206, 33 in arms, 4,59 sec 40 yd, 6,86 sec 3-cone, 35 in vert
Perrish Cox, 5-11, 195, 30 in arms, 4,56 sec 40 yd, 6,82 sec 3-cone, 31 in vert
I see them going CB on day ½ only if one of their targets falls to them (maybe Lattimore or Humphrey in R1 or King or Jackson in R2).
They will add a CB at some point in this draft. It’s too good a class to avoid the position. They will take one at some point.
I guess you said it right. Even if I think they are not obliged to have to take one there are just too many possible targets on every spot this year.
And look at every one of those 40 times excluding Thorpe who is a gunner for a reason with that speed. All over 4.5
Length over speed.
Thorpe’s an animal, I’m really high on his potential. Think he’s in for a good year.
They’ve all, Cox excepted, got big time verticals – 35″+
Length plus explosion is a good combination, how often to these guys honestly need to run 40 yards?
Another player to check out Rob. Orion Stewart-S- Baylor. Nice length, Good ball skill’s, is physical with good size.
It will be interesting to see what they get out of Demetrius McCray. It wasn’t too long ago he was thought of being an up and coming corner. That said, I think they draft a corner by day two, and probably a couple out of this draft.
Is Neiko Thorpe on the roster? I thought he was set to become a FA.
In not a huge fan of Cousins but if Washington let’s him go, it will set them back 2-3 years trying to develop a new QB. Maybe they don’t feel he can ever get them on top I suppose.
Apparently they are high on Colt McCoy.
Haha good one Rob
That’s what they’re saying.
And to be honest, would you want to pay Kirk Cousins $25m a year??
No I wouldn’t, but McCoy is not the solution. Maybe they pick up Romo or another vet to fill the gap.
McCoy might not be the long term solution — but he might be a solution for 2017 while they work this thing out. And that might be a wiser thing to do than commit $25m of your cap annually to a QB you don’t believe in.
Totally agree…
Fingers are crossed that San Fran trades the second over pick in the draft and signs Cousins to a $25 million per year contract.
Love the idea of Cousins facing down the LOB during SF rivalry games for years to come.
I don’t think there’s any way the price could be #2 plus a market-value extension. Maybe SF would offer #34 plus a future 2nd for Cousins?
But then again they do have a GM who’s never set foot in an NFL front office and utterly dysfunctional ownership so who knows what SF might do?
I feel like we are all pretty confidently that 3/4 first picks (or 3/3, if they *somehow* only get a 4th for Irvin) will go to fixing the problems on D. As for that 4th Day 1/2 pick, I’m hoping it’s BPA. I’m fine with that being an OL, unless they spend $5-7m on an Okung, which I would then hope they wait until Day 3 to add to the OL… barring of course an OL absolutely falling into their laps (Boles/Ramcyzk RD1, Robinson/Lamp RD2, Moton RD3, etc.).
Unbelievably deep draft. Just look at some the names in the second round.
Just read Clayton believes Seahawks will only get 2 comp picks 3rd and a 5th. Seems consistent with what we’ve been expecting
That second round looks really good all throughout. Such a deep talent pool from which to choose.
I really like the top half of the second round, I’d love us to get a pick in that range somehow… real value will be had there at one position or another depending on how round one shakes out…
I’ve been living in DC for the last five years and I can tell you that Cousins is the only true QB/leader they’ve had in a long time. I think they’d be stupid to let him go.
I tend to agree — but for whatever reason there appears to be a disconnect between player and team. And while Cousins has been useful for Washington, his price tag is far too rich for what he is.
Taylor Moton. Good looking dude (looks like an NFL player)
First time he’s been discussed on this board in awhile (I know he was mentioned earlier).
Need to watch tape. I’m intrigued.
Taylor Moton is a massive run blocker. He has a reputation for destroying people. However from what I read most scouts believe he will be moved to guard.
I have serious reservations about Moton at anything outside of RG. Pete’s desire to keep Ifedi at RG over RT really puts the Hawks in a bind. If they want Ifedi to move to RT then I’d be fine with Moton at RG. In fact I’d rather they picked the likes of Robinson, Feeney, Lamp, or D. Johnson to play RG at 26 then Moton in the second to play the same position. But all of that is a mute point since they’re adamant that Ifedi stays at RG. Lots of guards in this draft, but only two maybe three tackles that are good enough to stay at tackle in the NFL. Really hope that Ifedi at RG is not a hard and fast rule for the Hawks entering training camp. Better yet, I hope the Hawks bring in a FA tackle or two so it allows them to focus on the defense in this draft.
I share those reservations — but he has the kind of size they’ve tried at tackle in the past.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see them draft a guard anyways. Glow and Ifedi need to be pushed and they need 2 OT’s. One on the right side and at least a capable backup for Fant.
Hes really good at guard, though
Arizona got a steal with Cunningham at 45. There is a lot of value in the first half of the second round, is that usually the case or is this draft that much deeper with first round talent?
It’s a nice deep class through R1-2.
I’m going to get killed for this one, but recently read an article that said Miami had interest in Sherman, if that interest is real like first RD and better. I think we should do it, pull the trigger on a first round corner and move on. Save a ton of money, get younger and get rid of a problem all at once. I’m sorry but I do at this point see Sherman as a problem, he almost cost us a 2nd rd pick just for Pete trying to cover for him.
That is a scorching scorching take. Blaming Sherman for Carroll’s inability to keep quiet is something else.
And where are we going to pick up a perennial All Pro corner from? They don’t exactly grow on trees.
I would be tempted. But Miami picks at 22. Having 22 and 26 would be fun, but without even a clear cb2 on the roster, this would be really risky.
Smitty1547 bang you’re dead. I don’t think you move on from seminal talent like Sherman and there’s not guarantee that a first round pick could carry Sherman’s jock. People say Chancellor is the heartbeat of the defense but I’d give that title to Sherman and Bobby Wagner. Sherman doesn’t miss games thereby showing his toughness by example. He had a frustrating year but he’ll learn from it. I certainly don’t want to start the season with a rookie and a replacement as my two starting CBs.
I saw the article. It basically suggested the Dolphins will look to acquire a CB via trade and threw out two names as a suggestion — Talib and Sherman.
Firstly, it’s a bit harsh to blame Sherman for Carroll misspeaking. That was on Pete and Pete only.
Secondly, you would be paying $9.4m this year for Sherman to play for another team. That is not a good thing. The cap saving in 2017 is minimal.
Thirdly, the technique required in Seattle to play corner is so complex — the idea of starting maybe two new players at CB this year is terrifying in the middle of a Championship window. It could be this years version of the 2016 O-line.
Fourthly, fans and media may perceive Sherman to be a problem. Not a single coach has been remotely concerned by what happened. In fact they’ve all lauded Sherman when asked about what happened. It was ugly what happened at the end of last season — but Sherman, I sense, is a Seahawk for the duration.
I don’t see any scenario where they would trade Sherman, or anyone outside of maybe Kam (and that’s a huge maybe). I would only like that kind of deal if it was Sherman for Wake, Williams, or Suh and their 2017 and 2018 1st round and 2 or 3 round picks, respectively. He was a problem last year but I chalk that up to injury frustrations because all those guys in the former LOB (yes I’m calling them that until they earn that title again) don’t like playing at anything less than 100%. Also I think Sherman vocalized a general defensive frustration at the inconsistency of our offense to put it mildly.
Kam is the heart and soul of the locker room.
I think it’s Earl.
He’s the glue.
Those egos get real big when he ain’t out there.
???????????
Nvm semantic argument.
Kam leads the warm-up, Earl leads the huddle.
Together they make one Ray Lewis xD
And Pete could rebuild a championship team without either one of them.
You rebuild a championship team only when the first one is finished. This one is solidly still in a championship window. This is a year to add talent, not reduce talent.
New England seems to seem to do it with pretty good results, especially if a player is becoming to big for his own britches (Sherman)
I am generally a fan of moving on from high-priced guys to get younger and cheaper and reallocate resources (heck, last year I was telling my son I thought we should draft Sterling Shephard to replace ADB), but I think this is a bad idea.
For me, the great unknown with all of these prospects tends to be figuring out the desire, the heart, the toughness, etc. You can measure most everything else. They always say a coach’s dream is for his best player to also be his hardest worker. Sherman is the best CB, and he never misses time, he always plays tough, and he works hard at his craft. You don’t move on from that until the skills erode.
Sterling Shepard had a strong rookie season.
Sherman’s issues were based on his competitive instincts. He played with a ton of heart and passion this year. I agree that he was out of line a couple times, but only because he cared so much. Indifference would be a much worse issue. Love Sherman. He’s not going anywhere.
And I still think he had some off-field issues he was dealing with that we will never know about. No proof of that, of course, or even any significant evidence, but he just looked like someone who was trying to do a hard job with a lot on his mind, and there were a couple of times when he just couldn’t keep it all together.
You’re right Smitty, you got “killed”.
I’m good with that, i didn’t hear anything that changed my mind.
Wow! This would be a great haul for the Hawks and is a very well thought out mock. Can’t believe the Skins would trade Cousins, but man, they would get a couple of great defenders in Thomas and Humphrey. I wonder if they would kick the tires on Romo in this scenario? I can’t believe Colt McCoy would be the answer and I don’t see that you mocked a QB to the Skins. Just curious. Thanks, Rob!
An extra defensive pick would be nice however NFL football is all about the QB and continuity. Romo would be another temporary fix until the next ‘maybe this guy’ came along. It would be another five or six years before they had any consistency again. Washington has been since mired in direction changes and knee jerk responses since Dan Snyder bought the team in 1999. The lure for San Francisco is that the Shanahans (father and son) drafted Cousins the same year they drafted RGIII. Rumor is that RGIII was really drafted by Snyder who at the very least ruined RGIII by treating him like a son and taking away all of Shanahan’s power to discipline and shape the QB into a viable NFL QB.
But is the price for continuity too high if you don’t see the guy as being the long-term, high-ceiling answer? I don’t believe in the, “Well, it’s better than what’s out there” justification for paying a guy big money at QB.
Where does Cousins rank among NFL starters? 12th? Give or take? I just feel like he doesn’t offer much that is special.
I also keep seeing people bend over backwards to get a QB to SF because “Shanahan knows you need the QB to win,” or some such. But I actually go the other way. I feel like a QB coach/guru like Shanahan (or Gruden, for that matter) probably believes he has a special ability to find a QB where others see a guy that isn’t good enough, meaning he doesn’t *need* to use #2 to get a good QB.
They found Cousins in the 3rd. He knows another of his options, Garoppolo, was late 2nd. If I’m Shanahan, that doesn’t tell me I need to use #2 on a decent QB; one can be found later if you know what you are doing.
*Brad Kaaya waves*
*David Webb launches a flare*
I actually like Davis Webb. Why not? Look, they’ve got a crap roster, and giving up the #2 pick isn’t going to help matters. So if you’ve got Cousins, you are basically looking at being mediocre and trying to build a full roster while a guy is eating $20 million-plus of your cap.
I’d rather use #2 to get a difference-maker elsewhere, use the $20 million to get some decent players, and see if Jarrod Evans or Webb turns into something.
Oh no, i love me some Davis Webb.
Front Offices don’t last long when they botch these kinds of situations,
Gotta make the right call and cover your bases. If you pass on a guy and he lights it up. And you’re talking about developing your 4th rounder.
You’re looking for a new job
You said you were looking for developmental QB’s
They’re trying to be found lol
Cousins is essentially a rookie. Don’t forget he languished behind RGIII for three years, a dysfunctional three years where he didn’t get much attention because Robert sucked it all in. He’s played one season as the undisputed starter. If I was Cousins I’d rather get a new start and play for Shanahan. Although Washington is better under McCloughan there is still the specter of Synder jumping in to destroy another team and I’m not convinced that Jay Gruden is going to be around much longer.
Man it would be tempting… having both Solomon Thomas and Marlon Humphrey… And that defense needs help.
Cousins is a slightly above average starting NFL quarterback in my mind. But there are less than 16 slightly above average starting NFL quarterbacks in the entire world.
I think that’d be a great move for the Redskins. Could always try to trade down a bit from there, and pick up one of Watson/Mahomes etc.
I don’t think Cousins is great, and he seems like an all world dickhead. With the skill players they have on offence, they’re going to make almost anyone look good.
Very true, but with Jackson and Garcon possibly leaving as free agents, the skill players they have would take a major hit. On the flip side, I’d rather see Shanahan have to draft and develop a rookie that we could beat up on for a few years and hopefully lose his confidence! 🙂
As for the Hawks, I may have missed prior posts on Howard Wilson from Houston. I assume he’s good or Rob wouldn’t have mocked him to us, but anyone have a tad more info on him? Thanks
Don’t like the 2nd rd. If you don’t trade back and the draft falls like that, would prefer Wormley or Awuzie/Witherspoon. Don’t think a possible guard or swing T is the move in the 2nd.
That assumes he’s a guard or a swing T.
Competition on the line is necessary, but I think 2nd round should be someone that plays and a lot of help is needed on the defense so someone that can play the nickel or big nickel or rotate on the dline would be more cost effective unless you are replacing either Fant or Gilliam for sure.
They get a big nickel in R3 in this mock.
No OL they draft outside of round one is replacing Fant or Gilliam for sure.
As far as nickel or big nickel, that could still be 2 CB.
There’s not a corner in this class I’d consider a ‘big nickel’
I’m saying Nickel or Big Nickel, the Hawks need 2 CB.
Two CBs? Lane is the starting nickel or left CB because they just validated his $4 million cap hit. If they get Maxwell back they may not need any CBs other than an athletic developmental project. The big nickel is not a sure thing is it? They could still choose to use Reddick/Davis/Cunningham/TBD in that role on third down.
I think we can put a lid on the ByMax-back-to-Seattle train
They quite like him in Miami
If you are talking about need due to our supposed lack of depth at CB, we don’t know what the Seahawks NEED given the bodies, athleticism and time in the Seahawks system that we’ve already got at CB on the roster. I’m not saying someone will step up, but damn, if SJB or Seisay aren’t ready to play yet then they probably won’t ever be. We’ve had Seisay since Aug ’15 and SJB we signed in Dec ’15. Both Seisay and SJB are 26 years old with some experience playing in the NFL already. Thrope has only been a Seahawk since Sept. ’16 but he is 27 years old with probably the most NFL experience of the bunch.
If we don’t have a single CB in that group that is ready to start then … just wow. That will be a huge disappointment.
If you are saying we need to grab two CB’s to compete for a spot to develop given the depth of talent at CB in this draft class? They I could more easily agree with you. But if you mean need as in we need starters? I doubt any CB in the draft outside of R1 could start their rookie year in our system and not be a liability.
Correct. We need 2 CB that can compete. Sherman (down year) Shead (injured), Lane (terrible) are the top 3 and only CB with experience. Could use a nickel corner for sure and someone to push Shead/Lane. I really think 2 CB and 1 S is a big need.
Lane isn’t terrible. Wasn’t terrible last year. And probably won’t be next year.
If you draft two corners you’re probably cutting one of them, right?
Sherman, Cox, Lane, Thorpe, Elliot, Seisay, SJB and two corners from the draft and then you get Shead coming back.
I don’t think we carry more than 7 corners at any time.
I mean the easy call is to cut Cox, Seisay, and SJB.
Why make a hard decision harder?
Talent
They want a big time physical presence at RT if we’re to beleive TC and I see no reason not too.
Moton is a mauler in the run game. One of the best run blockers in this class.
I know a guy…. Played for A&M, I think. Big guy. Brother was drafted by the Rams….
I still don’t understand why we can’t just move Glow back to RG, play Odhiambo at LG, move Ifedi out to RT. Much smarter people than me have said that Ifedi has good enough traits to play tackle.
He has the traits, but his best position is far and away guard.
He’s always been a guard. Since high school
You mean except for his last year in college?
His last two years in college*
And yes, that’s what I mean. Haha
Don’t teams play guys at something other than their best position all the time? Primarily on the OL, I guess. If the needs are greater elsewhere and we’ve got a decent backup option at guard….
I guess they do.
Gary Gilliam might be a little sore if his lil homie GI stole his spot.
This ain’t Madden. There are egos and hierarchy’s in this league
Maybe if GG gets hurt, but we like him and dont want that to happen.
Hopefully, GI can continue to develop at guard and Gary (who is like 28 or something) can develop next to him.
Yeah, seems silly to spend a first round draft pick on another guard. The team is littered with guards. Move Ifedi to tackle where he has value.
Makes sense to me. The biggest thing is to find best spots for each and stick with it and let them learn and gel.
Would love to get our hands on Rasul Douglas, his stock seems to have climbed since Senior Bowl. He just seems like a natural fit for our system.
If the 49ers do in fact pull of a trade for Cousins I’ve seen that it would involve an swap of each teams 1st round pick, may be an option to include for future mocks. Especially if the 49ers are truly looking to embody the Seahawk defense they could take one of “our” guys at 17.
Like others here – I love this draft. In fact I think I would love it no matter how you made the picks. It’s just a real strong draft through the first three rounds. Lets give Moton a try, though I’m not sure what will become of Gilliam or Ifedi. At some point they will get one side of the offensive line figured out, and if we are lucky both sides. A fan can dream right?
Can’t complain about this mock. I’m liking Reddick more and more. Who isn’t?
My only question is about the OL. Would we draft someone who projects to be a guard as high as round 2 unless it’s the absolute BPA? We have 7 offensive lineman who got playing time in 2016 who are under contract next year (I’m assuming we tender GG). Only 2 are tackles. We usually carry 9 OL during the season. Always compete, maybe they find a rookie that can take Glow’s spot and he becomes a backup? Do they think Glow or Odhiambo are capable of being backup swing tackles?
Not many people projected Carpenter and Britt to play tackle. Both did in Seattle.
The Seahawks have used players with Moton’s size and profile at tackle.
Interesting exercise, Rob, sending four quarterbacks in the first frame.
With no clear cut #1 at the position we could see a year when teams reach for a signal caller.
I think we have to account for the QB carousel that will undoubtedly be taking course in the next few weeks.
Romo, Cutler, Glennon, Taylor, Kaepernick could all move teams and depending on the situation could claim that undisputed starter spot on their team.
Any real chance that nobody goes QB in the first round?
I can’t forsee that…
Someone will be on the outside looking in on the QB lottery and someone will want their own youngin to bring along.
It’s amazing the talent that’s available early-mid second round.
Usually I read Rob saying there aren’t enough real first rounders so this would be a great year to add a second round pick somehow. If they did trade Jimmy Graham for a second it would be like getting another first round pick.
Great work on the 2 round mock draft Rob but.
I was just wondering if you think that Seattle would take a chance on Joe Mixon from Oklahoma in maybe the 6th or 7th round, if he is availabe?
I think he will go undrafted
I would be shocked if he gets out of day #2 with his talent. If Tyrek Hill can get drafted in Rd #5 with inferior talent coming out of college and not one incident but a history of domestic abuse then I think at least one team will be willing to accept the crap storm that will come with drafting him. A lot will depend on how he conducts himself in team interviews and the background work teams do on him I suspect.
Prepare to be shocked.
Tony Pauline has nailed this situation: http://draftanalyst.com/monday-mussings-february-20th
“He won’t be selected at any point in the draft for obvious reasons.”
Mixon is toxic, the owners in the NFL actually know about this incident. Hill, rightly or wrongly, that story flew under the radar. Being seen to actively draft this guy is a PR disaster waiting to happen. And any GM wishing to draft Mixon is going to have to justify that to the owner.
He might get a chance as an UDFA.
He’ll play for the Cowboys. He just will. All Jerry Jones has to do is justify the move to himself, which apparently isn’t hard for him to get done.
Could definitely see it.
Could see him joining Dallas as an UDFA. Or Washington.
Interesting trade with Washington.
I don’t know if I agree with who you had them picking. Fournette makes sense there at #2. You’d think they’d want to trade for a sure thing if they’re losing Cousins. Thomas could be the next Aaron Donald but we’ll have to wait and see how he tests.
The more obvious issue, however, is Washington doesn’t take a QB in the first 2 rounds at all.
I love these types of mocks though because we all know there’s going to be some shakeups.
I appreciate the alternative scenarios. Keep up the good work Rob!
Maybe they want Mike Glennon for all we know. I see similarities with him and Cousins with the big different being double-digit less millions per year for Glennon. The Washington offense has a good OL and some weapons. Whoever is their QB is set up to succeed. It’s not like a situation where they have a garbage OL like the Vikings, Panthers, and Seahawks had this past season.
Maybe McLoughlan wants Kaepernick?!
Field Gulls did an article recently about how Kaepernick would benefit from a year behind Russell Wilson. It seems unrealistic as he can probably be a starter and get decent cash elsewhere. But it’s long been a topic of discussion between my friends and I – Kaepernick in a Hawks uniform would be a pretty awesome story. And he can probably fit the Russell Wilson mold as well as any other QB out there. Might not be a bad idea for the Hawks to keep an eye on his situation and be ready to strike a deal if there’s a chance to.
That sounds good.
Reddick is good man for Hawks,Similarly, Melifonwu Baker and Cunningham are good man.
I love trading down and waiting for them.
We need more picks and depth.
If San Francisco trades their #2 pick straight up for Cousins, I would shake my head. That’s too little. Surely they will demand at least a lesser pick also? I know Washington wants to trade Cousins, but that knowledge doesn’t mean they must, if their trade partner doesn’t offer enough. I know (also) that the trade calculator for trading picks is out of date, but… well, we’ll see, if Washington trades Cousins (which I agree, seems like more than 50%)…
Random question: We all know the Broncos aren’t going to pick-up the Okung contract. At the same time, they aren’t going to want to lose him. Their line is bad enough the way it is without creating another gaping hole at LT by losing him. That being said – what if Denver restructures his contract to the point where Okung would agree to it? How would that work in terms of draft compensation?
As I said, Denver isn’t going to pay him what he’s scheduled to get… but I don’t see Denver letting him leave and creating another hole on their already bad line either. Interesting thought to ponder (not Christian). I’m curious what the rest of you think…
I think there is a chance that they restructure the contract, especially if Okung likes playing there. The only things that would hold that up is if Okung thinks he can get more money elsewhere, or if he’s not into staying, and refuses to restructure.
It’s really hard to handicap because I have no idea what Okung is using as criteria. It’s not being on a winning team because he had that in Seattle. It’s not a good QB because Denver doesn’t have that asset. It’s not just money because he signed a crappy contract. So what does he want?
I’m just hoping there’s a way he stays in Denver (restructure of money would need to happen) and we can add another 3rd round pick. With the talent available in Rob’s mock above, that extra 3rd could give them more incentive to move up in the 2nd to get an impact player. If we could get two of Davis and King, Reddick and Baker, Cunningham and a stud CB, etc. That’d be pretty cool.
I would like to see Okung back in Seattle at Left Tackle. Probably won’t happen but a guy can dream.
He wants cash money. Your shelf life in the NFL is short.. grab the fat stacks of cash while you can. He also won a Championship already, so that is not the #1 priority for him.
That’s what I’m saying… Denver may give him the most money on a lesser deal than he signed last year. They don’t want to lose him. And I’d rather have Denver keep him in that scenario with us getting a 3rd round pick, too.
Clayton mentioned Denver as a team that could make a serious run at Andrew Whitworth if they let Okung leave. I think they will try to restructure Okung’s deal rather than risk coming up short but if they end up releasing him they will just move on. The Broncos have been more than willing to spend big $$$ on free agents in the past, and I think they would be happy to pay Whitworth for a couple of years.
Okung is leaving, Seattle might be able to pick him up on a 4 year 6 million per year contract. It would be worth a shot to offer him that.
Okung made $8M in 2016 according to Rapoport. $5M base and $3M in incentives. I’m surprised the experts (The Professor, Football Outsiders) are mentioning this leap frogs Sweezy’s $6.5M and gives the hawks a potetial upgrade from the 5th round comp.
Is this where Luani is projected to land, R3/4? I’m curious to see his combine numbers. Any chance the Hawks take a chance on Darrell Daniels? He’s been reported as running in the 4.4’s during training. I gotta imagine they take a guy late to replace Luke Willson. Fast, athletic TE.
I think he could be a target, for sure. They would have a good sense of what he could do in their offense. I’ve mocked him a few times.
Wow, 4.4 for big man? I actually wondered why Browning didn’t go to him more. He seemed to be open often but there must be something else about his game that’s not right. It worries me that a physical talent
on a productive offense didn’t have more impact. Maybe a late round project.
I want to say that at the Huskies Junior Combine they clocked Daniels at something like a 4.48.
He sticks out on tape, makes you wonder about Browning….
Great draft for Oakland.
They need a lineback too though.
I’d be very tempted to take Mike Williams over a 3rd LB in this scenario.
Reddick is better
Mike Williams would most likely be a fourth or fifth WR in 2017 behind Baldwin, Lockett, and Richardson. I think PRich separated himself from Kearse down the stretch. At least Reddick would be a starter.
Watched tape on moton. Have to say I am not impressed. Seems to have strength issues while being rather slow and lumbering.
Moton looked pretty good vs top level competition, like OHST in 2015 (the game where Adolphus Washington had his pick6)
There are a couple of eyebrow raiser plays but for the most part he looked dominant.
Here’s the entire game. You have to weed through the OHST offensive plays. Keep your eye on WMICH RT #72.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70QjTg_X0uM
Sorry meant WMICH RG
Great mock as usual Rob. If Takk McKinley is still on the board when Seattle drafts do you think they may look at him over Reddick? McKinley is heavier and I think should have a similar 40 time. I think he can serve a role similar to Bruce Irvin did towards the middle and end of this Seahawks carrier at SAM and then EDGE on passing downs. Reddick will probably be better in coverage.
I know he has had injury issues and will have to go under the knife (for a shoulder issue) after the combine, but from what I`ve read it shouldn`t affect his play a huge amount. Any thoughts from anyone??
Takk is an EDGE for me, would expect them to go LB, CB or OL early.
I like Takkarist McKinley a lot. If the Hawks don’t take him someone else is going to get a good football player. Also Hassan Reddick is really a good football player. I can see why Rob likes him a ton. However, I don’t think Reddick will last until the 26th pick. If the Hawks were forced to trade down they could either pick up either a late third or early 4th round player. They might use that pick to snag a running back. I am intrigued with Brian Hill. Highly productive. Scout’s talk about his lack of explosion. However Hill does have the same caliber of fight in him that Marshawn Lynch and Thomas Rawls has. Hill would be a nice compliment to Rawls /Prosise.
I like the first 3 picks but am a bit confused by the Shalom Luani fascination. Especially if we draft Reddick or Davis, which to me would be a clear signal of Pete Carroll sticking with his core defensive philosophy. If we draft a Reddick or Davis well then what do we need a ‘big nickel’ or a SAM/SS hybrid for? Certainly either of these linebackers can man up with a TE.
I love the Reddik, Luani CB picks. I find it hard to get on board with the Moton pick. It feels like this pick is more about seemingly “addressing the OL situation in the draft” rather than a helpfull move.
If we take Carroll’s words as solid, Ifedi will use his off season (until training camp) to work and improve as a R. Guard. That is enough for me to hate the idea of shifting him to RT during TC. Those are exactly the kind of moves that disrupted this OL continuity over the last few years.
They have gone on a unique path with the construction of this OL and paid the price for it over the past 2 years. This is the first year that they can bring back the whole starting line that finished last year and reap the benefits of personal improvements (Ifedi, Fant, Glow) plus the cohesion benefits. Unless they suffer injuries, this should be the starting OL. Adding a new rookie at RG to suffer the usual abuse and having Ifedi shift position during training camp will just kill another half season for the OL and prevent the team from validating or disproving the course they have taken.
As for Moton himself, he is an inferior version of Ifedi. He shows the same problems but far lesser TEF and upside. I can not see how he helps us enough to justify and 2nd round pick. If he is brought in just to serve as a backup and have red shirt year, we are better off staying true to the philosophy that brought us here and pick a raw, high upside potential to train for the future. (The Gilliam/Fant road|)
There is just too much talent available at other positions in the end of the 2nd round to invest in an OL pick that does not improve the team immediately (or at all).
If the talent is not there at CB, I’d rather pick a DL player at that spot, edge or pocket effecting DT. (Warmley, Jaleel Johnson, Kpassagon etc.)
p.s. – a nice article about Warmley –
http://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/chris-wormley-defensive-line-prospects-not-created-equal/
“There is intelligence in his block shedding skills; Wormley is patient at the point of attack to wait for ball carriers to try to run off his hip before violently disengaging and wrapping up.”
“while Chris does not possess the ideal level of first step explosiveness for the boundary, he can and does beat interior lineman to the spot and generates interior pressure and push as well. Wormley as an interior rusher is capable of walking back blockers and collapsing the pocket or winning with a slant penetration step to get hip to hip quickly.”
Eran. Trust me you don’t want to be on the other side of the line of scrimmage facing Taylor Moton. He makes defensive lineman disappeare in the running game. However, most scouts project Moton moving inside to play guard in the NFL. It’s going to be really interesting to see a who ends up playing right tackle this year for the Hawks.
Great run blocking = likely Seahawks target
Well let’s wait to see his athletic profile. I am hoping a couple TEF guys emerge from the combine. Maybe Moton is one.
Moton was a dominant run blocker as a RG vs OHST in 2015.
Moton has 3 things going for him that make him a likely SEA target:
Excellent run blocking
Versatile (can play OT and OG)
Durable – never missed a start and set a WMICH school record for most consecutive starts
The only thing we don’t yet know about is his TEF score. If he passes, I have a feeling he’ll be high on SEA’s target list. I don’t know if he’s as athletic as Ifedi, but he looks athletic enough to pass TEF. We’ll find out soon enough at the Combine.
Ifedi and Moton would make an exciting ride side. Both have played RT and RG. Both are “big off the bus” (Ifedi goes 6-6 #325 with 36″ arms and 10.75″ hands; Moton is 6-5 #330 with 33.125″ arms and 10.75″ hands). Both are extremely athletic, especially for big men.
If you believe that Moton is a plug and play RT that will play better as a rookie than Gilliam…OK.
On the other hand, if you are selling me someone that will be as effective as Ifedi was last year….I’ll pass.
It looks like the Hawks are not making any changes to the coaching, development and selection of OL this off season so given that the past 6 years they have had a garbage OL with average run blocking and terrible pass protection I fully expect the exact same thing in 2017-2018. If they can at least get back to being able to be a decent run blocking unit I will be happy.
So given this reality if Bolles is gone as expected the only OL I would consider in the first 2 days is Assita in the 3rd to compete for a Guard spot and back up Center. He is the nastiest Guard in this draft class and the OL needs someone like that.
Then we have to pray Russ gets healthy this off season because he will be running for his life again next year. Every QB who has ever played on a Tom Cable team has had to run for his life so to expect anything else would be silly.
If they truly want to fix the run game then we need an elite RB like we had with Beast Mode even if he is not the same style runner. Therefor the move that makes the most sense is drafting Mixon in Rd #3. He is an elite talent that would have likely been a top 20 pick if not for the well documented disgusting incident. For JS to try and take the high ground now after drafting Frank Clark is hypocritical. If anything bringing a guy like Mixon into the Hawks culture with Pete there to guide him could really help this young man turn his life around after making an awful decision doing something that as a father of two young girls made me want to throw up.
You know they aren’t drafting Mixon though Trevor.
Plus I have to dispute this ‘garbage’ O-line argument. A young OL struggled in 2016. The lines in 2012-14 were more than good enough for this team and not garbage. Even in 2015 they got it right after a rough start.
Is it the Cowboys OL? No. Has it been garbage for six years? No.
Rob they have been a bottom 1/3 OL ever year in the PC/JS era no matter what metric is used. Anyways I don’t want to start that argument up again I just think we have to assume the OL is going to be bad so they have to get the Defense back to championship level and improve the other areas of the offense and run game like they did in the SB years.
I don’t think they will draft Mixon either but that does not mean that it is not the right move to make. Do you not think it is hypocritical of JS to rule out a guy like Mixon after drafting Frank Clark? They can say they were comfortable with Clark after their investigation and that he would not draft someone who had not hit a woman but I have looked at the police report which includes pictures and to think he never did anything is silly. The only people who think he did not are the Seahawks front office. If you want a link to the report just let me know. Anyways that is is old news.
I just think that if these kids do something like this then the league needs to either exclude them for being eligible and that certainly is a reasonable stance to take. Many businesses will not hire someone with a criminal record. Or get them the counseling and help they need, include them in the process ie combine and interviews and them hold them accountable for all actions when they are an employee of the league. This idea of some teams having on on the board and others not or not including him in combine but allowing him to be drafted is just silliness.
Why though?
I mean the suggestion here seems to be that it’s impossible for the youngest O-line in the NFL to take a step forward, or that it cannot improve via FA or the draft either. Let’s give up now eh?
Mixon has become a bit of a legend in his own lunchtime. He’s good. But he’s not the second coming of AP or Lynch. And what he did was despicable. No lost sleep from me that he’s going undrafted and won’t be in Seattle.
I am not saying give up at all they have to an can only improve. It would be hard to be worse than last year. I am just saying 6 yrs of history with many different players and configurations is enough historical data to tell us to expect another bottom 1/3 OL.
Agree about the despicable part and if he was not allowed to play in the league at all I would certain not be upset but that is not the case they are allowing him to play and be drafted. More hypocrisy from the the NFL. As for the talent there we disagree is he AP or Lynch probably not. But he is a 1st round talent for sure IMO.
It’s a defeatist attitude IMO.
And where they are ranked means nothing either IMO. If they are at the 2011-2014 level, sign me up. It means the Seahawks will have a really good year on offense.
NFL history is full of examples of offensive lines growing into championship units. Hopefully, last year was year one (with its accompanying growing pains). It is impossible for the average fan to tell the difference between bad and bad with potential. They just measure by results.
What results would it take to consider this line as a success in 2017? Decrease in sacks/hits/hurries for certain. What other measurable would you look for?
Better run game.
Agreed. Better run game will lift all boats both offensively and defensively.
It was so much fun to see Seattle be able to run effectively against the Lions last month. Made me realize how much I missed seeing this team run so well. No matter how we do it this offseason we have GOT to get the running game fixed for 2017.
They ran effectively vs ATL before Ifedi got hurt and Odhiambo replaced him. That’s not at all a knock on Odhi, but rather an acknowledgment of how well Ifedi was blocking in that game, and the last quarter of the season.
I fully expect Ifedi to take a major step forward this year, regardless of whether he’s outside at RT or where he was last year.
if they stuck with the run game. it would show confidence that the line can do it.
I think the Packers have done a very good job of building and keeping good continuity on their OL
Rob,
This is one of the few takes I disagree with you about. Though I’m pretty confident Seattle won’t draft him, like you believe as well; I don’t see him going undrafted. I just watched the Tyreke Hill draft response on NFL.com and as I thought there was appx 1.5-2 seconds talking about Hill’s charges and 20 seconds talking about his game changing “world class,” speed. The NFL is a hypocritical animal. Even on their own draft site Lance Zeirlien (sp?) incorrectly states “domestic violence,” two times in discussing MIxon. Which it’s not. And then references a NFC scout who says he has top 40 talent. And correctly notes he won’t go won’t be in the top 40. Which I also agree with. But there is a lot of picks from 40 to “mr. irrelevant.”
We can’t use the Hill case as a golden goose for this issue though. There are many prospects who went undrafted for less than what Hill did. Some as high profile as Mixon.
As Pauline notes — teams have to get this past the owner. And no owner is going to sanction this s**t storm according to TP. It also wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some pressure from the league office on this.
I just think it’s a bit of a waste of time topic seeing as we know he won’t be in Seattle, even if someone else does take him.
I totally agree that he WON’T be in Seattle. But as a fan and a former resident of that city, I only bring it up because I personally would want him playing for Seattle.
The Hill thing illustrates the ultimate truth of the NFL and all sports for that matter. You may very well go undrafted for less… you may get cut and never have your job again….but if you have “world class,” speed and can score touchdowns/goals/etc. at a reliably high rate, you’re going to play professionally regardless of what you did.
I don’t agree that he won’t be in Seattle. I don’t think anyone can say at this time. But I also don’t want to waste my time speculating about where Mixon will land.
I like the Asiata as guard, back up pick over Moton. Moton to me is too high of a pick for a guy who will be a guard or a back up. Good to even great run blocking still doesn’t help pass protection and I don’t see him as a better player then Gilliam. Moving Ifedi to RT makes sense but I’m on the keep as much of the band together train as possible.
Why do people keep assuming Moton’s role or that he won’t make it?
How many people had Justin Britt pegged as very accomplished starting center a year ago?
I don’t think he couldn’t make it as a Guard. Not at all. I’m just not convinced he’s a better RT than Gilliam. The Seahawks tend to draft OL high from power five conferences. W. Michigan is obviously not. He’s a good to potentially great guard. I still think Ifedi can be a beast at the guard position and unlike many do not think a move for him to RT will benefit him. I think at RT though he has the length he (to me) showed lazy technique winning with superior size and strength but not winning always. But at Guard I think he’s a total mauler ready to make a huge leap this year, so for me drafting a player who also has guard/tackle experience but looks to be a better guard in the second round doesn’t make sense.
Then you have two good/great players for one position and still have Gilliam and possibly Ifedi? Is Moton a better Guard then Ifedi? If true and Ifedi is a better Tackle then Gilliam then it’s a win. If both players are similar to one another and Gilliam’s spot isn’t improved then it’s a high pick just for the sake of mixing up the line. I’m a huge Asiata fan and think if you’re drafting a guard you go later.
Is Moton an improvement at Tackle from Gilliam? Perhaps. If so I’m all about it. It’s easy to be optimistic when your team starts a basketball player and TE.
Competition is king
It is and creative ways to look at a player for what he can do and not what he can’t do ahs helped Seattle stay on or near the top. If Moton can Improve one of those spots I’m for it. Even if Ifedi becomes a back up. I know people would be bummed by a “wasted pick,” in Ifedi but an improvement is an improvement and any chance to increase your win totals is what I’m after.
The one thing I’ll say about that Justin Britt pick is that we had to go through two years of complete nothing with him. Yes he’s a great center now but the headaches he caused our OL almost made the great center he developed into not worth it (almost). If we could know that Taylor Moton would be on the same track, I would be hard pressed to take him. Two years of nothing from a second round pick is very costly in the short term. That’s why it might be better to just take BPA at CB/LB/DE in the first 2 rounds than to reach for an OL who *might* be good in year 3.
Bingo peter, though I’m not sure Ifedi would become a backup.
Look, there’s a reason why JS scouted WMICH this year, and it’s probably not for Corey Davis.
It really might be for Davis.
But yeah, I was about to mention his scouting their games.
Can’t get behind any talk of benching Ifedi.
He’s gonna be great great great
Davis would cost them their R1 pick, if he’d even be available then.
I have a tough time seeing them going WR with their first pick, but I suppose if they did it would be for someone like Davis (or Njoku).
I’m not for benching ifedi at all but if moton is better and he can’t beat out Gilliam then better is still better. I’d hope if moton was the pick it’d be ultimately for RT.
Though I’m not quite ready to take Davis off the board….likely? No. But still a player I like.
How about a left tackle in Moton’s range? That is the worst spot based on Gilliams improvement in the last few games.
I’d agree with that but the FO seems more than content wit Fant. So I’d assume that they would be looking towards the right side. IF they can find someone who can play LT better then Fant or push him I’m all for it.
I think after the combine and we get the TEF scores some more OL prospects will likely emerge. Will also be interesting to see who they bring to VMAC and who Cable works out as those have always been pretty good indicators in the past.
Anyone had a change to do any work on Alabama St. LT Jylan Ware? 6-7 310 lbs and seems athletic. Hard to find video to get a good look at him. All I could find was some on youtube from the Grid Iron Classic
Looking at some later-round DTs to possibly add into the mix. I don’t think the Hawks will be taking one early again this year.
Saw some highlights just went up for Naz Jones, NC St. We know PC likes length, and boy does he have it. Listed at 6-5, 295 but in an interview on YT 6 months ago he said he’s up to 310.
Has overcome some serious adversity as well, as he nearly had to give up football after his junior year in high school, suffering from complex regional pain syndrome, a disease that made him unable to walk and caused him to lose 50 pounds in a month. At one point, didn’t even know if he would be able to walk again.
2016 had 70 tackles (32 solo), 9.5 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 3 PBU with those long arms.
Well spoken in interviews and team leader on defense. Carries a chain into games to cause they are only as strong as the weakest link, etc.
Anyway, perhaps he is one of those guys who could turn out to be something more with a bit of development at the next level.
Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPfUq1_D4HY
I’m liking NDs Jones later on
I would be really happy if Seattle lands Reddick. I don’t expect him to be there though. Morton would be fine too. Since drafts are giant crap shoots, I hope we acquire more picks along the way. Volume!
So I was looking to figure out a bit on Ryan Ramczyk, whether he should be the Hawks pick if he falls due to injury and not getting a chance to boost his stock at the combine, etc. We also won’t have TEF scores on him to help us.
I found a really interesting breakdown video. This guy also has one on Cam Robinson and Forrest Lamp. Maybe we should ask him to do one on Bolles and others too… He seems to know his stuff.
Here’s the link to Ramczyk. Seeing the quick feet and explosiveness pointed out, I think if he’s there at 26, we gotta take him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUI9_foV38
Rob. Top notch write ups the last few days. Really enjoyed them esp the prospective plans one.
Really a conundrum being missing the CB 2nd tier sweetspot with our 2nd pick. For once I’m hoping you are wrong and we can go CB/LB or LB/CB with the 1st 2 picks. Only the combine will tel
Looking around at the potential free agents targets and came across John Simon DE/OLB plays for Houston, ended the season with a pec injury but was looking productive beforehand. Could be another bargain signing.
Always liked him
As have I – although, his career hasn’t nearly panned out the way I thought it would.
Probably doesn’t help that he’s had to compete with Watt, Clowney and Mercilus for playing time
We can get by with the current O line. A healthy Russell Wilson with his receiver corp is good enough IMO. Cap space is better spent on our defence and skill players on offence. When Russell’s mobility fades in a few years it then makes sense to spend big on the O line. Quick fixes don’t work. Continuity and a years experience does IMO. Seems to me that injuries on the defence derailed the season as opposed to O line play.
At the end of the day I trust Pete and John to make the correct decisions. They’ve been at it long enough to know what to do. I’m sure they have a plan for the years ahead
Denver declined Okung extension. No 3rd comp. Just a 3 and 5. Lame.
That was expected but too bad. He really did himself no favors by acting as his own agent last year.
Perhaps it will open up a chance for his return…Okung is a God compared to Fant…Just saying…
Gods dont get hurt.
He single handedly lost them at least one game last year.
On the final drive in the red zone needing a td he gave up a tfl, held his man, then gave up a sack.
Who Fant?
That’s not really a single handed loss….the whole team got them to the point that they were reliant on a last minute TD. So would you rather start Fant or Okung at LT next season?
I think the Seahawks should offer him a 4 year deal at 6 million a year. Hes still got a lot of life left in him and would solidify the left side. I don’t care if he did miss a block or two last year – hes still better than most of the current line.
What do people think of Marcus Maye? I’m a huge fan. He plays everywhere, in the box, deep, in the slot. He hits hard, plays fast, and forces a good amount of turnovers.
With his broken arm this year, there’s a chance he slips into the late second round. He could definitely be an option for SEA, don’t you think?
Yes, I’m a big fan too. I would be worried about his speed as a pure safety, but as a hybrid type I think he is a baller. Think there is every chance he makes it to the end of R2 or even early R3 given the sheer depth of DB in this draft.
If we got both Jarrad Davis and Marcus Maye, I would be ecstatic!
I think he’d be a very intriguing “Buffalo” candidate. And he’d give us some insurance in the back end if/when Kam gets injured. Plus, he’d be an immediate special teamer.
Hey, Rob, how about Deandre Yedlin at Newcastle!
The 24 year old American is being lauded as the best RB in the championship after recently joining Rafa Benitez’ squad.
Dangerous speed and an improving eye for the cross, he’s one of the best hopes for a competent U.S. national side.
Barring a catastrophic meltdown he should be playing in the Premiership next season!
Always liked him a lot more than Pulisic personally… *ducks to avoid random projectile thrown at him by Kenny*
Except Pulisic is like 7 years younger and they play way different positions
He’s the best hope we have for a world class creative attacker.
(I always liked Yedlin too cuz he’s from Sounders
*throws somehing anyway*
He’s playing well. Newcastle should win promotion this season.
It’s disappointing that we have so few starters in top leagues.
I can count them on my fingers.
And then our national team pool is like a mile wide and a foot deep. With 50+ mediocre roster fillers
With Okung officially back on the market I wonder will JS kick the tires?
He is obviously familiar with the system we run and could jump back in without much of learning curve. He would definitely be an upgrade to Gilliam or Fant who could battle it our for the other spot. He was also healthy all 16 games last year.
I am not sure if he burned any bridges but it does not sound like it. I think the biggest question is what he wants $ wise as I doubt he is looking for another 1 yr deal. Also would he want to come back to the Hawks? It is probably not a coincidence he was finally healthy last year after getting out of the scheme we run.
I don’t know if he wants to come back to this physically brutal offensive line system. I don’t think it’s a coincidence him, Unger, and Carpenter have all been healthy since leaving this team where they were perpetually hurt.
I would be MUCH more excited at bringing back Breno. Even as a backup. He knows the system and has that nastiness and grit that would be a great influence on this young line.
Is there a reason we have to run a scheme that gets our OL hurt I wonder?
The TEF rating system for OLineman is cool to have figured out.
Good job Rob!
My thing is…the proof is in the pudding…it simply ‘Does NOT work!”
It seems they value ‘ceiling and athleticism’ at the COST of simply having the TALENT at that position…experience counts…
I will NEVER understand the ‘NO competition’ fly zone that was stuck on Round 1 RT pick Ifedi, only one day after being drafted…
ZERO competition happened here…they made Ifedi play out of position, never let Odhiambho play his LT position, except for a few plays when Fant went down…
They need to BALANCE TEF with ‘proof the player can play’…IMO
Just break down and sign an actual offensive lineman in FA that has ALL READY HAD SUCCESS!!! Please?!
K so.
It does Work.
Where is all that talent? Its getting overdrafted and overpaid. I think you need to step outside of your fandom and recognize the circumstances the entire league is facing.
The Seahawks didn’t make TEF. We did.
If you understand TEF then you know it isn’t a foolproof method of evaluation.
It’s a resource we use to quantify and compare athletic traits.
We developed TEF based on Tom Cable saying he has athletic thresholds.
In that same interview he said he values intelligence and grit more than anything.
Ifedi has that in spades.
He’s also a GUARD. He has much higher potential there, and it is his natural fit.
He played there every year of high school and all but his final two years at Tamu.
To assume they don’t watch tape (and also that we don’t) and don’t value technical ability is pretty silly.
And another thing to consider is the amount of confidence they have in their ability to develop their draftees.
Firstly, TEF is “right on” as far as a predictor of OL they take. Kudos to you guys for retro engineering that…
Let’s examine ‘it working’… Since 2010, JS/PC/TC have taken these OL:
2010 – Okung(1st). Above average play, injury issues, and did NOT live up to a 1st round pick as far as longevity… Now released by his 2nd team.
2011 – Carpenter(1st) and John Moffit(3rd). Carp never played up to a 1st round player, and we let him walk. Seems solidin NY. Moffit never amounted to anything but ‘ok’, and left the NFL for weed and radio…
2012 – JR Sweezy(7th). The ‘most successful’ so far as draft capital for results… Again, solid, not great… let walk… missed a whole year.
2013 – Michael Bowie(7th) and Richard Seymour(7th). Not much expected from 7th round picks, but Bowie had ‘drive and weight issues’, and neither amounted to squat for SEA.
2014 – Justin Britt(2nd) and Garrett Scott(6th). Scott never did anything. Britt disappointed at his drafted RT spot, was forced into service at LG, and was no anything, and now at C in his 3rd year, he finally breaks through!
So only 1 OL so far, Britt, is ascending into his 4th year, and will get a second contract…Only 1 so far to do so in 7 years…So…
2015 – Glowinski and Poole(Both 4th). Poole, gone, see yah…Nothing. Glowinski? Decent, strong, probably makes a leap year 2-3 at LG…maybe… So he is a kinda success story so far…
2016 – Ifedi(1st) and Odhiambho(3rd) and Hunt(6th). Hunt is a planned C backup. Nothing here. As far as Ifedi, please explain why he played 2 out of 3 years in the SEC at RT, but RG is his ‘natural position’…High school does not count, lesser competition. What was confusing tome, is Mr. Competition Pete Carroll NEVER even ALLOWED Ifedi to COMPETE for RT… NEVER. If you try to tell me Ifedi would have not been better than Gilliam at RT, I won’t believe you… Ifedi would have destroyed Gilliam…IMO
So in 7 years of drafting ‘their OL guys’, we get 13 drafted OLineman, with only ONE to ever be resigned, and that is Justin Britt? After 2 years of mediocre at 2 other spots, this is what you call ‘Success’???
With Glowinski being, what the cherry on top?
I agree that TEF is ‘successful’ at helping us predict who they take, and unfortunately who they seem to take, FAIL.
2 out of 13 = 06.5% “Success Rate” So I love you Kenny, but must disagree…
It’s definitely a hot topic. I’m with you Hawk22, the athlete is given more value than the player on the OL. It’s the same thing in organizations that draft the combine athlete and not the football player. Those organizations continue to stink because the value athlete over player. I understand you need athletes to run the ZBS, so either switch to man, or quit thinking you’re smarter than everyone else and have experience and gameday skills rate higher than combine workout.
Well said Ed… it seems to make them ‘over-think’ it a bit…
…or just trust in Cable too much, which results in ‘getting to cute’ sometimes…
“Can he all ready play the spot?” would be my mantra…
Looks like Giacomini is a FA now… Hmmm…
We need Giac back. We need him. He is the ideal RT for our blocking scheme and we know him well. We have the lowest payroll total for the OL and adding him should be easy cap wise. In fact, I do wonder if we can get him at great value since he has more value for our scheme than anywhere else.
Funny how Seattle let Giacomini and Okung walk, and now they are both out there, available…
Giacomini or Okung at the right price would be fine with me. Prior experience, let the young guys grow behind them… Hmm…
In fact, they may be older now, but they BOTH helped us win that SB48 at RT/LT… Something to consider…
Rob has made the point that as defensive lineman are so athletic nowadays that it presents a challenge to find offensive linemen who have the athleticism to keep up. Something we all probably agree on. TEF is a tool to attempt to quantify a players ceiling based on their athleticism. But drafting athletes to play on the OL at the expense of things like balance, instincts, and technique hasn’t really worked out (yet) for our ZBS.
Tom Cable’s opinion that all offensive linemen need to be retrained coming out of college isn’t completely without merit, but I think recent examples have shown it to be an inadequate philosophy on which to base our process of creating on OL on. There have been enough offensive linemen in recent years who don’t excel at TEF who have still proven to be capable players.
My question is, and perhaps it’s a foolish one so I apologize in advance, but is the ZBS becoming a cost inefficient scheme for us to rely on? We need athletes for the ZBS. But you can’t teach every superior athlete adequate technique. Athletic linemen who have enough technique require a lot of draft capital and cap dedication. There are guys coming out of college who can play in a more traditional, man/power scheme who don’t require using first round picks.
The team has made a conscious decision to spend money on the defense and our QB. Other areas, such as the OL, can’t have as much money dedicated to them as a result. I completely understand and agree with the philosophy they have used to build the team. Ultimately I question if it isn’t more cost efficient to alter the OL scheme and philosophy to better match the talent that is available coming out of the college ranks?
Let me be clear what TEF is. It is merely a formula created using Tom Cable’s self-confessed ideals (31 inch vertical, 9′ broad, 30 bench reps). The only thing it does is quantify how close a prospect is to Cable’s ideal physical profile.
It doesn’t assert quality or ceiling. It simply helps us identify players that could interest the Seahawks.
And when we tested all of their previous draft picks, they all matched up giving the formula credibility.
Nobody is questioning TEF, which was put together brilliantly by you, I am questioning why they continue to lean on TEF and miss out on good football players. It’s like picking a combine warrior that didn’t play all that well (the Mike Mamula). Something has to supercede TEF and that should be ability to play the position.
Define ‘good football players’.
Because Ifedi played well in college. So did Okung, Carpenter, Britt, Moffitt, Glowinski etc.
If people think the Seahawks are passing on really talented but slightly less explosive offensive linemen in the draft to just select ‘athletes’, they are mistaken.
Just a quick note, we don’t all agree that DL are so athletic nowadays that it presents a challenge to find OL who have the athleticism to keep up.
I don’t agree with that at all. I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.
Then you are kidding yourself.
The facts are there for all to see.
It’s unquestionable.
“Unquestionable?” Holy cow. You don’t think that’s taking it a bit too far? What facts are you talking about?
The only “fact” in this conversation is that defensive linemen are, on average, more “athletic” than offensive linemen. And that is actually a bit subjective, since by “athletic” we only mean certain things.
But you have no proof that defensive linemen are *relatively* more athletic than their offensive counterparts than they were a few years ago, five years ago, ten years ago. Defensive linemen have *always* been more athletic; that’s why they’re playing DL instead of OL, usually. You also have no evidence that OL are struggling to keep up with DL, even if it were due to increased relative athleticism of DL. You also have no evidence to support that claim that finding athletic OL is a struggle.
What we do know is that DL have always been more athletic than OL. But the OL has built-in advantages to combat that, and those haven’t changed. They typically have numbers, they know the snap count, they know the play, they basically get to hold as long as it’s not egregious. None of that has changed. What we do know is that for the most part, sack numbers haven’t gone up and offensive scoring hasn’t gone down over the past 5, 10, 20 years. If this is such a struggle, why is it not having a greater effect? What we do know is that there has been a fundamental shift in offensive philosophy in college during the timeframe we are talking about, so schools have neither the time nor the interest in *teaching* OL all of the fundamentals of their position.
If you want to say that because guys are coming out of college so unpolished due to the changed nature of college football, it’s harder to evaluate which OL are going to be good in the NFL, so unless you are picking the elite talent at the top of the draft you are best served just taking the most athletic OL and hoping you can train them into something good, go for it. I’m on board. That’s at least a claim that is supportable by facts.
There is plenty of proof. Our formula showed six explosive O-liners entered the draft in 2016. 26 explosive D-liners entered the league. Here’s the most explosive at both OL and DL:
Dean Lowry: 3.54
Jason Spriggs: 3.54
Sheldon Rankins: 3.52
Robert Nkemdiche: 3.47
Noah Spence: 3.46
Yannick Ngakoue: 3.44
Shaq Lawson: 3.43
Shawn Oakman: 3.36
Ronald Blair III: 3.35
DeForest Buckner: 3.33
Javon Hargrave: 3.33
Charles Tapper: 3.32
Lawrence Thomas: 3.32
12 DL, 1 OL.
You’d have to be in serious denial to watch the modern NFL and not see how this is translating. John Schneider himself has referenced it.
You make some good points, H22F, but im gonna stick to using TEF As a comparative measure of athletic traits in offensive lineman.
At least as long as Tom Cable is the one developing them.
Note that two OL draft picks by Seattle last year weren’t even put through TEF.
I like TEF! Not knocking it at all…just wanting dialog about it as a pure basis…LOTS of good points…This site has Bright Minds…
I must admit it is nice to see some people agree…I believe they are doing their Best, and drafting in itself is like a Vegas card game…the odds are fluid and uncontrollable…
If we sign ONE FA OL of quality, then the draft is free to pounce on the BPA at what we need…we have an excellent roster…just need some ‘touch ups’ here and there… 🙂
So now we don’t have a third comp pick… we are doomed
No? Shouldn’t Irvin give us that?
yeah should get one for Bruce still
I think he was referring to okung but that was always a longshot
yeah he sad third comp pick not third round. we weren’t getting a third anyways as we sign Sowell and Webb
yep, my bad. he was referring to 3rd comp not 3rd round comp it appears.
Man I´m getting so excited for this draft. A bunch of UW players that can go 1st and early 2nd round, so many defensive players that even day 3 might bring some super talented players. Let´s hope for some solid and awesome Day 1&2 draft picks and a underdog story of the ages late day 3/undrafted.
Also, who else is more excited for defense, rather than offense? I always tend to watch more highlights of defensive plays. Also on madden I sacrifice Offensive players way easier than a defensive player, even a backup.
Pretty cool if they come away with Baker/King/Qualls
An ET clone, a starting CB and DT that can push the pocket.
I would take a flier on BG on a prove it deal, but not Okung. BG was a tone setter and was durable. Can’t say either of Okung.
Question here before the next article comes out. Whos people top 4 draft picks they want in round 1? And if Bolles, Ramcyck, and Reddick are gone then who? I say the CB class is too deep to go round 1 with it. Obi One Kenobi might be too early for 26. I think I go Takk Mckinley if hes available, know its not a super need position but he could fill Irvins role also.
For me Obi still – just too freakish athletically to pass up imo.
Thats the beauty of opinion def leppard, no one is wrong.
indeed 🙂
Great Mock! That would be a very Seahawky draft if this were to happen…even down to the reach on Moton who may project better at OG…I do think, when looking at the measurements of the DB’s on the roster, Seattle goes Buddah Baker with their first pick whether at #26 or if they trade back because there are still multiple players they covet are still on the board.
Seattle has managed to get by with key injuries on DL, LB, and even CB, and SS but Earl going down sunk the season. Slot corner was also a glaring weakness last year too. Buddha solves both while allowing Seattle to move Lane back outside with Thorpe, Sesay, and others to back him up until Shead fully recovers. Buddha can cover the smaller shiftier WR’s Seattle has had trouble with since Thurmond left. Most importantly, he can back up Earl and be the FS of the future. He solves two immediate needs. I don’t think Pete Carroll has ever forgotten not taking “The Honey-badger” and this may be his second shot at it.
That being said, I could see Seattle being ultra aggressive in trading up in the 2nd Rd to nab Buddah (if he’s still there) if they have already gotten Riddick with there first pick. Just a thought.