Ohio State’s Taylor Decker — a better athlete than people realise with a ton of upside
Nobody should be giving up on the 2015 season. The Seahawks have two home games and a chance to be 6-5 heading to Minnesota and Baltimore. The NFC is wide open and anything can happen — including a wild card team making a run.
The 49ers are next.
Even so, at 4-5 there isn’t anything wrong with indulging in a bit of early draft talk.
There’s been some confusion over the pick the Seahawks currently ‘own’. On Monday they were paired with the #19 selection by Mocking the Draft. NFL.com has them with the #18 pick, while MTD now has Seattle at #12 after a strength of schedule update.
If it is #12 — and if they stay in that range — it’d certainly give them an opportunity to upgrade the offensive line via the draft.
It’s actually been quite a nice range to pick in recently. This year Ereck Flowers was the #9 pick, Todd Gurley went at #10, Danny Shelton at #12 and Andrus Peat at #13. Given Seattle’s current needs, it would’ve been an interesting quartet to consider.
In 2014 the Seahawks would’ve been in position to select Odell Beckham Jr (#12) or Aaron Donald (#13). In 2013 they would’ve had a shot at Sheldon Richardson (#13).
They owned the #12 pick in 2012 before moving down three spots to take Bruce Irvin — who’s been a regular starter ever since.
It’s still way too early to predict how the 2016 class will shake out — but having identified at least four draftable offensive tackles for the top-15 — at least one is likely to be sitting there within range.
We’ve been banging on about Shon Coleman (T, Auburn) being the best offensive tackle in college football for a while and there’s no reason to hold back now. A cancer survivor who fought his way back into football, Coleman has dominated difficult SEC opponents like Myles Garrett, Leonard Floyd and Jordan Jenkins. His combination of size, power, mobility, attitude, willingness to get to the second level and chirpiness make him the definition of an elite prospect. He should go very early but nobody talks about him. We’ll see if his stock rises like Greg Robinson in 2014 or Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson in 2013. If not, he could be an ideal first round pick for the Seahawks.
Most people expect Laremy Tunsil (T, Ole Miss) to go in the top ten and that’s a safe bet. While I prefer Coleman, Tunsil has also performed well against the like of Texas A&M’s fantastic speed rusher Myles Garrett since returning from a NCAA imposed suspension. He has the length, kick slide, second level willingness and sufficient grit to warrant the attention he receives. With a premium placed on athletic offensive tackles — Tunsil is well placed to be off the board before Seattle picks barring an unlikely tanking the rest of the way.
Taylor Decker (T, Ohio State) is an underrated athlete who could easily force his way into the top ten. Teams love tall, athletic, blue-collar blockers. Decker ticks all the right boxes and has similar potential to Taylor Lewan. In 2014 Lewan was actually the third tackle off the board at #11 (Greg Robinson and Jake Matthews went before him). Out of the three, Lewan’s had the better career to date. Don’t be surprised if Decker goes a little later than someone like Tunsil but ends up being the better pro. Decker shouldn’t get out of the top-15 and he could be an option if the Seahawks pick as early as #12.
Jack Conklin (T, Michigan Tate) has had a middling 2015 season so far. In the game against Oregon he looked like a typical road-grader — driving defenders off the ball, protecting Connor Cook and looking every bit a physical and capable pro-prospect. In recent weeks he’s not looked quite as sharp — culminating in a slightly torrid outing against Maryland last weekend. Cook was injured in the game as the pass protection struggled. Can Conklin play left tackle? That’s the big question. Are you moving him to the right? If so, you’re probably putting him behind Coleman, Tunsil and Decker. Even so — he’s a bit of a self-made man (former walk-on at MSU) and he’s a good run blocker with the necessary size and temperament teams like. With such a growing need for good O-liners in the league, don’t expect Conklin to get out of the top-20 picks.
I’ve not included Notre Dame’s Ronnie Stanley. His play and effort is inconsistent, there’s a stiffness to his pass-pro set and there’s very little evidence of any second level blocking. LSU’s Jerald Hawkins has received some attention recently — although it’s unclear why. Some of his performances this year have barely warranted a draftable grade (particularly against Alabama).
It’s hard to look beyond the O-line for obvious reasons. Seattle’s group has struggled, seemingly impacting the overall identity of the offense and affecting the performance of Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch.
Russell Okung and J.R. Sweezy are free agents in the off-season. Even if both players re-sign — you likely have to consider upgrading the left guard, center and right tackle positions.
If things go wrong and they pick in the top-15, they’ll have ample opportunity to address their most pressing need.
Teams going O-line crazy in recent years
The Seahawks might be facing an O-line makeover in the off-season — but plenty of other teams have already been there and got the T-shirt. With mixed results.
The Arizona Cardinals spent first round picks on Jonathan Cooper (2013) and D.J. Humphries (2015) and yet both have disappointed so far. They also committed to the O-line in free agency, bringing in Jared Veldheer and Mike Iupati. The Cardinals, even with two underwhelming first round players, have the #8 ranked O-line in pass protection in the NFL (all rankings in this piece via Football Outsiders) and the third best run blocking unit.
Cincinnati has planned ahead, sensing the need to protect Andy Dalton as a priority. They drafted Cedric Ogbuehi (first round) and Jake Fisher (second round) this year to eventually replace their two incumbent offensive tackles. In 2012 they also spent a first round pick on guard Kevin Zeitler and in 2014 a fourth rounder on Russell Bodine. They have the seventh best unit for pass pro and a ranked at #2 in the run game and clearly intend to stay in that range.
The Cleveland Browns hit on two elite O-liners in 2007 (Joe Thomas) and 2009 (Alex Mack). Yet 2015 first rounder Cam Erving is off to a bad start (seemingly Mack’s successor). 2012 early second rounder Mitchell Schwartz has been hit and miss but 2014 second rounder Joel Bitonio has been a roaring success. Despite some heavy draft investment in the trenches, the Browns have given up three more sacks than even the Seahawks in 2015. Their line is ranked dead last in the running game and #26 in pass pro. It’s clear evidence that a good line and a bad supporting cast at the skill positions isn’t a good mix.
The Miami Dolphins have tried to rebuild their O-line recently by drafting Ja’Wuan James in the first round (2014), spending third rounders on Billy Turner and Dallas Thomas and a fourth rounder this year on Jamil Douglas. That follows the previous first round investment on Mike Pouncey (2011). They also signed Brandon Albert in free agency. The line is still in a state of flux despite serious dedication to try and improve. Miami’s line is currently at #25 in the passing game and #19 for the run.
The New York Giants have made recent moves to improve their line, probably to preserve Eli Manning’s career for a while longer. Ereck Flowers was taken with the #9 pick this year. Justin Pugh was drafted in the first round in 2013. They also spent a second rounder last year on center Weston Richburg. It’s certainly led to some improvement. New York currently has the 12th best pass protecting line and they’re #16 in the run game. They’ve only given up 15 sacks.
Pittsburgh are another team that recently decided they had to spend considerable resource up front to repair their offense. In 2012 they spent their first two picks on guard David DeCastro and tackle Mike Adams. They took Maurkice Pouncey in round one the previous year. They’ve gone from having a horrendous, sieve-like offensive line to a solid unit that boasts the #6 run game in 2015 and the #20 line in pass protection. Consider that they didn’t have Le’veon Bell for the first four games of the season due to suspension and have needed to start Michael Vick and Landry Jones at quarterback. Clearly the line is doing something right.
And then of course there’s Dallas. The most hyped up O-line in the league. Everyone considers the Cowboys’ unit as the best. Tony Romo has still missed games in 2014 and 2015 playing behind this O-line. While it’s certainly not a bad group by any stretch — the three first round picks spent on Tyron Smith, Zack Martin and Travis Frederick (plus the recent addition of La’el Collins) have combined for the #23 ranked line for pass pro and at #8 in the running game. Not bad numbers — but certainly not elite given the major investment. Maybe Romo, Dez Bryant and DeMarcus Murray were the real stars last year?
So these are the teams that have gone big recently. The #1 ranked team in pass protection is Oakland surprisingly. Their line consists of free agent pickups Donald Penn, Rodney Hudson, a former 7th rounder J’Marcus Webb signed from Minnesota, undrafted Austin Howard who bounced around three teams before landing with the Raiders and 2014 third round pick Gabe Jackson.
You wouldn’t put that group together and expect greatness. It emphasises what scheming and a good blend of offensive skill players (Carr, Murray, Cooper & Crabtree) can do for an offense.
The Seahawks — who themselves have spent two first rounders, two second rounders and a third rounder on the O-line since 2009 — have shown they’re unable to scheme around a line that isn’t that talented. The solution is probably going to be expensive — be it picks or salary.
Will they go with a tackle first in 2016 (Coleman, Tunsil, Decker, Conklin) and someone like Adam Bisnowaty, Jason Spriggs or Joe Dahl in rounds 2-3? They also need to find an answer at center — and if they can afford it, might be able to coax Alex Mack to Seattle. Adding a cheaper, wily veteran at tackle or guard might also be attractive.
Ultimately they need tough football players who can pick up the technique quickly. Zack Martin was a rare case — athletic and technically adept while capable of playing any position on the line. A fantastic prospect. But players like Justin Pugh in New York, the Pouncey brothers, Joel Bitonio and others have shown you can find prospects who can make it work quickly with toughness, attitude and some athleticism.
They’ve tried the ultra-SPARQy, high ceiling approach and it hasn’t necessarily worked. They don’t need to completely abandon that plan — but it’s time to find some road graders to hold things together. The Seahawks need to be able to run the ball and provide average pass protection. They need to get back to the days where they ranked #1 in the running game and around the #20 mark for pass pro. That’s the identity of this team. Right now they’re at #9 for the run and #32 in pass pro. A jump of eight places is required in both categories — minimum — for this team to regain the offense it desires.
Possible 2016 O-line solution:
LT Shon Coleman or Taylor Decker
LG Veteran guard or Justin Britt
C Alex Mack
RG J.R. Sweezy
RT Adam Bisnowaty
(This assumes Russell Okung signs a big contract with a different team)
The Seahawks might also want to bring in another running back in the middle rounds. Indiana’s Jordan Howard showed what he’s capable of against Michigan with major yards after contact and a tough, physical running style. Alex Collins has had a very solid year for Arkansas with a blend of home-run hitting speed and a tough-to-bring-down style. UCLA’s Paul Perkins is more athletic and slight but is still tough to bring down with nice vision and a delicious cut-back ability.
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Good analysis of the teams needs and how other teams have done with their draft picks. I’m in agreement with you on the road grader type blockers. Lets at least get one thing right, a solid running game. It is a shame to see an elite running back and his protege not getting their yards. Also takes pressure off Russell Wilson.
Regarding the poor pass blocking, maybe the problem isn’t with the tackles. You made a point about how our defense was getting to Palmer off the edges, but not up the middle. I somewhat disagree with that, in that we did use our linebackers to apply pressure up the middle. But lets just go with your point for a minute. If pressure up the middle is so important, maybe we shouldn’t view the guard and center spot as a dumping ground for players who couldn’t make it as tackle. Maybe we need players who are as good or better then our tackles at those positions. I guess it also comes down to body type and speed. A pulling guard needs to be pretty fast also.
Do you see any hope for Gilliam at Right tackle? It seems like he is improving. Though I have no stats to back it up. Maybe just wishful thinking.
“You made a point about how our defense was getting to Palmer off the edges, but not up the middle”
I don’t recall making that point.
I’m not optimistic on Gilliam.
Oh that must have been the other Rob that said that. I think you were serving baked crownies!!!
LOL, you might have to explain that joke to Rob across the pond
The thing that gives me the most hope about our team isn’t really this season, but the possibility (I pray that it will happen) that the Seahawks draft O-line high knowing they need to fix the mess they made.
Need to draft T high, specifically I think RT. I really liked what Davis Hsu talked about on twitter, that RT uniquely is a very very important O-line position for Russell Wilson. He isn’t a “step up into the pocket” QB and probably never will be (like say a Brees). So top tier pass pro from the inside of the line isn’t hyper important. But what he is, is a roll/scramble out to the right QB. So that RT needs to be consistent and high quality in pass pro so when he feels pressure for the left side or up the middle he knows he can escape/roll out right.
I completely agree with that theory, which screams to me that we need to draft the best RT we can find with our 1st pick. I say draft Center with our 2nd pick, because Britt has looked better recently at LG, we can either re-sign Sweezy, sign someone like Alex Boone in FA, or maybe Glowinski is ready to play at RG and at LT you gotta hope they can re-sign Okung and that his choice to be his own agent is a sign of him accepting a fair deal (given all the money he already has and his injury history and how he hasn’t met expectations).
So to me my hope is our O-line looks like:
LT: Okung
LG: Britt
OC: ’16 2nd round pick
RG: Sweezy/Glowinski/Boone
RT: ’16 1st round pick
Let Bailey walk and continue to develop Gilliam at T but as our new swing T.
I also like the idea of grabbing a RB, I believe in the 3rd round with one of our 3rd round picks is a good idea, 3rd round RB’s seem to be the sweet spot. Assuming there is someone we really like.
I believe behind an upgraded O-line a back like Rawls will be our RB1 but we just don’t know if he can handle a 16+ game load so you gotta hedge your bets and either have a high priority UDFA RB (like Rawls was) in mind or draft a RB.
However with the monster bellcow all 3 down RB’s coming in 2017, my hope is we grab one of those in the 1st round. Gotta try to get our own Gurley assuming Rawls or the 3rd round pick prove to be a monster back.
Rob,
Great write up and analysis as always. Yet when viewing your projection for who the starters in 2016 could be, having two rookie tackles is a tad concerning for me. Yet I acknowledge that Okung could be a tad too expensive to resign. If he does go, I would feel better about Bisnowatty starting at right tackle than Gilliam. To be the positions of guard and center are more about raw power than ‘finesse’, which is why so many failed tackles have been moved to guard, yet this does not mean guard is not a crucial position on the line. I see in Justin Britt a flawed player but also a player who could really come around and provide us with all around solid guard play coming next year. In Sweezy I see a player who has reached his ceiling. At times he’s decent at at times he’s simply awful. Resigning him wouldn’t be hard, yet letting him walk and having Glowinksi step up at right guard might be the better option. Part of continued success in the NFL is having the guys in drafted as backups and depth being able to step up when the guy in front of him leaves town. A free agent guard might be a smart move, but not a vital one. Signing Alex Mack would be the priority over that for me, Seattle needs a good center, we’ve seen that with Max Unger. If we end up picking at #12, and fail to resign Okung but sign Mack, draft order in my opinion should look similar to:
1. Offensive Left Tackle- (Shon Coleman or Taylor Decker)
2. Offensive Right Tackle- (Laraven Clark, Germaine Ifedi, Jason Spriggs, Adam Bisnowaty or Spencer Drango)
3. Running back- (Jordan Howard or Pual Perkins)
3c. Defensive Tackle- (Anthony Zettel)
In this simulation we also resign Bruce.
After a draft such as this our lineup in 2017 could look like:
Shon Coleman, Justin Britt, Alex Mack, Mark Glowinski, Laraven Clark
With Alvin Bailey, Terry Poole, Kristjan Sokoli, Drew Nowak and Gary Gilliam serving as backups.
Laraven Clark goes in the range we select in round 2. PFF loves him.
The signing of AJ Francis suggests that Seattle wants a big tony McDaniel-esque player on their defensive line. While he isn’t giant, I still think Anthony Zettel could be a great play maker here, he specializes in splash plays, similar to what we observed from Frank Clark coming out of college. Zettel is still 6, 4 though, he could provide the push up the middle our d line has been lacking.
This brings us to Mebane… To resign or not? He’s been a great player for years but his play has taken a nosedive this season. Rubin to me is a must resign, he really has made an impact here and has improved his play from Cleveland. I think signing Mebane to a team friendly deal if possible is a good idea if his poor play can be attributed to lingering injuries. Interior D-Line could look like:
Brandon Mebane, Ahtyba Rubin, Jordan Hill, AJ Francis and Anthony Zettel, with Bennet and Clark kicking inside on passing downs. This looks like a solid group to me.
Rob, I like most of your 2016 OL. Let Okung go, let Sweezy go.
LT Decker
LG Boone/Britt
C Mack
RG Boone/Glow
RT Bisnowaty
I think the middle is what messes up Wilson. The Saints have always paid for the middle of the line because of Bress (short). Keep the inside clean and Wilson can step up (if he gets better QB coaching so he stops spinning)
But RW is most dangerous when he’s rolling out of the pocket. He’s such a threat to run that back-7 defenders can’t fully commit to their coverage duties; if they do, he gashes them for chuck rushing yards.
RW had his best season behind Breno. He had a decent season behind Britt, who had a decent rookie season at RT. Too bad he couldn’t continue to develop there. He’s having a poor season behind Gilliam. Rob said above, “I’m not optimistic about Gilliam.” That’s perfect.
Clearly the biggest need is OT and (here on SDB) the order of talent at the top goes Coleman-Tunsil-Decker. I’d stop right there because the drop off to the next group is fairly significant. Unless SEA can get one of those 3, it may be wiser to wait until the 2nd for a Bisnowaty-Spriggs-Dahl-Murphy.
Need to check your facts about Britt. Britt was rated by the game charters at Pro Football Focus as the fourth worst offensive tackle at stopping the pass rush among 56 qualified players. If limiting it to just those that played right tackle, he was the worst.
I however agree with you that Russ isn’t like Brees, he isn’t a step up into the pocket type of QB, he is a stand in the pocket QB or bail out to the right or scramble around when surrounded.
This makes RT the most important position for our O-line. Russ needs an escape valve, and it needs to be our best O-line player, and it needs to be at the RT position. If pressure is coming at him he will know that he can roll out/scramble/bail out to the right side (his strong side).
So to me that makes RT the priority in the 2016 draft, gotta get the best OT/RT available in the draft with our 1st pick. Then with our 2nd pick I say get a Center.
Re-sign Okung if he will take a fair deal (pray he does). Let Sweezy walk and sign Alex Boone at RG. Start Britt at LG (he has done well there, if he keeps developing it looks like it can be his permanent spot), and our O-line is set. Glow as a backup Guard, Patrick Lewis as a backup C & G, and Gilliam our backup swing-Tackle.
That’s part of the problem. I agree Wilson is great on the run, but to be truly successful in the NFL, you have to read the pocket correctly and step up and throw. Brady and Manning are terrible athletes, but they don’t get sacked for those reasons
I don’t know for a fact if stepping up into the pocket was something he did in College, if it is then obviously he can do it as a pro and yeah that needs to be worked on when he gets better interior protection.
However you can’t force Russell to be something he is not, if he isn’t a step up into the pocket type of guy at 5’10 then he just isn’t. Get him a top tier RT and let him stand in the pocket until he feels pressure then he can bail out going right.
It’s not like I am saying don’t give a crap about the interior linemen, yes upgrade the Center, yes re-sign Sweezy or better yet sign Alex Boone, hope Britt is playing his best ball at LG and that way he can step up into the pocket if that is something that comes naturally to him.
I’m always quoting PFF so this may come as some surprise, but I don’t put tremendous stock in their ratings. Against ARI, they had Gilliam rated higher than Okung (+2.3 vs +1.4). There is NO way Gilliam had a better game than Okung. NO WAY.
I agree their ratings can be garbage but it was clear as day last year that Britt was not “aright”. Almost every other snap he can up a free runner. He was so slow and jerky and unable to get even a hand on pass rushers, I can visually see in my head all the times (so many) he’d take his steps back after the snap and his man run right past him untouched.
He is much better suited for Guard play, inside the phone box where athleticism and quick feet aren’t needed as much, but his brute strength and mauler attitude do really help him. He is learning a entirely new position and technique especially for pass blocking, and he has shown flashes of really solid work this season so I am hopefully.
We agree he’s better suited to OG. But IMO he was a better RT than Gilliam.
Key word being “was.” Not this season. Just last season.
It’s a very interesting scenario that Rob proposes, but it also takes me back to the question; if we can all agree that LT is a cornerstone position for any contending team, and you already have a good LT in Okung, why are you letting him walk to replace him with an unproven rookie talent who may prove to be a decent player at the position, but also may not?
It just doesn’t seem worth the risk. If you are at 12, and there is a tackle you like a lot, and RT is a clear need position, and one of these guys is the BPA at a need position, then you likely just hit it out of the park. If you are picking in the upper middle of the portion of R2, you are still potentially in a solid position an impact player at DT, OG/C, WR, CB, OLB, or RB. And if you are really lucky, you might just hit it again in R3, and then start drafting your special little projects you love so much beyond that.
Letting Okung walk to resign Mebane/Rubin, Sweezy, or maybe Irvin does not make a ton of sense in my brain, unless you are planning to land Mack, which builds a certain case for this, but it also goes back to the David Hsu notion that RW3 needs great tackle play more than interior linemen play, and your letting a proven good one go to roll the dice on a couple rookies. There is no dice rolling on resigning Okung.
If anything, I would rather have the team commit to him for 3/4 more years, draft RT high, and then maybe look in the middle round for another tackle that SPARQ’s out, and groom him to be the swing, and maybe an event replacement for Okung. Also, find a way to keep Sweezy, if you can. His market may not be that high.
I think it’s fair to say that they’ll offer Okung a new deal, but ya can’t force him to take it. If he gets more money somewhee else and sees it as a better fit for himself, not much more ya can do.
Yep! I hope the Hawks resign Okung but it depends how much money the other teams throw at him in FA.
They can also tag him for a year.
True. But it’d be a really high salary (average of top 5 LT salary in the league?) and since I doubt Okung would be getting that kind of money as a FA, we could probably resign him at a lower salary than that. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of market he gets.
Great post Rob.
I’m generally in favor of a multifaceted approach to fixing this problem, as apposed to a devoting the top half of the draft to it, etc
In my ideal world we re-sign Okung and let Sweezy walk.
We then target the top OT prospect available wherever we pick in the 1st round. With one our 3rd round picks we target an interior lineman (Center or Guard).
This would leave us plenty of draft capital to address other needs (replace Irvin, etc)
Well the Hawks haven’t shown that they have what it takes for a third straight Super Bowl, what bums. How spoiled have we fans gotten. 🙂 I say let them take a year off, go 7-9, and reload with high draft picks for a change. That would be a good consolation, as long as they do their homework. After Atlanta won their Super Bowl, they paid their QB top dollar and had to lose some players, not make the playoffs, and now they are looking pretty good.
Great lets tank a season in the prime of our superbowl window so we can follow in atlantas footsteps and not win any SBs and the fans better shut up and like it
“After Atlanta won their Super Bowl…”
When was that?
Without realizing it, I’ve been waiting for a post like this – a survey of OL situations around the League – compared to SEA. Well done sir.
This will be one of the more difficult drafts to mock for a while yet because we just don’t know where SEA will pick.
Also, the draft value of our #1 target is an absolute enigma at this point. We know he’s the best OT in the draft – easily a top 10 pick – and yet he’s virtually unrecognized. It’s hard to see him dropping to the mid teens, just like it’s hard to see SEA picking #12.
One thing I’m becoming certain of: SEA will draft a RB on Day 2. Unless…what if Zeke Elliot is available but none of Coleman-Tunsil-Decker?
I think that 3rd round comp pick looks perfect to take a RB. If he doesn’t work out, oh well. Comp picks are meant to be used for ‘rolling the dice.’
Take a back this year and next. Then in training camp of 2017 let your 3 backs compete it out. The 2 best become the guys and the third one gives us depth for an injury, a guy to gameplan a few touhes for, or even a possible trade asset.
Great read Rob.
Loved how you pointed out and described how different teams went about fixing their O-line. Very intetesting.
O-line has got to be the 1st overall selection. Seattle always drafts for need with their early selections, and I’m not sure we’ve had a bigger need than what our O-line currently is.
Try and re-sign Okung and Sweezy, definetly one of them, get that OT first in the draft, give Soko or Glo a shot at RG, keep Britt at LG, draft a C/G type of prospect, and bring in a veteran FA to compete at and gve depth to multiple spots.
LT- Russell Okung
LG- Justin Britt/vet
C- rookie/vet
RG- Soko or Glo
RT- rookie
Then we got Terry Poole, Garry Gilliam, one of Soko or Glo, and either a rookie C or that vet that’s highly versatile as our back-ups. And throw in Patrick Lewis, LJP, or Nowak.
Michigan St OL Jack Conklin has been really dissappointing these past few weeks. Looks like more of a guard to me.
I for one thougjt it was interesting that Seattle worked out RB Kendall Hunter this week. 5’7-5’8, 200-205 lbs. Hmmm…
UCLA RB Paul Perkins is definetly bigger than that. But, it makes ya wonder if a guy like Illinois RB Josh Ferguson would appeal to them.
Nothing wrong with kicking the tires.
They could bring back C Mike 😛
Why does anyone believe that Alex Mack from the east coast will move to southern alaska?:) I just dont see Seattle out bidding anyone by enough to sway him here. I would love to see it happen but what is the reasoning for this belief its possible to out bid anyone enough for this to be a reality?
Have ya been to Cleveland? IIRC Alex Mack is a west coast guy.
But, I do agree. I think Seattle is going to get out-bidded on all the top tier O-line FA’s, if there is any.
Their going to have to re-sign Okung or Sweezy, maybe both, and then as for outside FA’s, target the 2nd tier.
Damn I type slow…
Alex Mack is a SoCal native and played college ball as a California Golden Bear.
Thought so. Thanks for the clarification my man.
I think it’s time to rebuild the offensive line. I let Okung and Sweezy go and spend the money on other players (C, Mebane, Chancellor contract, ¿Irvin?, Shead, Ryan, etc). It has been seen that in this way we can’t continue and although they are team boys my opinion is that they don’t provide the enough level.
Problems with an entirely new offensive line would be huge but I prefer to risk rather than continue with Okung/Britt/Nowak/Sweezy.
My hope is our O-line looks like:
LT: Shon Coleman or 1st rd T
LG: Joe Dahl/Sokoli/Britt/Poole
OC: Alex Mack or 4th rd C
RG: Glowinski/Sokoli/Poole
RT: Gilliam/Dahl
Add another some undrafted T/G and that would be my group for next season.
Would Seattle consider bringing in recently released CB Akeem Davis??? He is 6’1 and 200… played more SS and LB in CFB.
Rob is Joshing us…. no way Seattle picks at #12
I doubt it too. But I didn’t expect 4-5 either…
Given that we still don’t know what the end result of this season will be, I will ask this one. Is there any possibility that either or both Cable and Bevell will be replaced next offseason, and could that affect their approach to draft and free agency? Scheme vs. talent/styles/build, etc.
In any case, I think the need for a new o-line, a mix of veterans for stability and top talent are priorities.
Short answer, no.
Hope so
Highly unlikely either would be replaced. But…it’s still too soon to say for sure. It’s possible if SEA continues to lose games it should win because of offensive failures. Even so, it wouldn’t be both.
And it wouldn’t change their approach. They wouldn’t hire someone with a vastly different philosophy.
Rob,
Do think there is a DT in that range (top 15) worth drafting? Looks like a lot more shallow group than the OL group. Maybe DT in R1 and then look to T or even C R2?
I disagree. This draft class is deep in DTs. Moreover, since 2012, an average of just 3 DTs have been selected in R1.
Top tier DTs (R1-2): Nkemdiche, A’Shawn Robinson, Jarran Reed, Jonathan Bullard, Kenny Clark, Adolphus Washington, DeForest Buckner.
Second tier DTs (R3-4): Sheldon Rankins, Austin Johnson, Anthony Zettel Sheldon Day, Chris Jones, Adam Gotsis and Vernon Butler.
Also, SEA hasn’t drafted a DT before R3 under PC.
Throw in Illinois DT Jihad Ward who’s stock seems to be taking off. I’ve seen some say he’s 2nd-4th rounder. I’m expecting him to turn up the combine.
Oklahoma’s Charles Tapper, and Auburn’s Montravius ‘Monty’ Adams.
In other words, your right. There’s some great depth in the range Seattle targets their DTs.
Tapper’s a DE isn’t he? Yes, add Monty Adams to the list (assuming all the juniors declare).
He is. Tapper is along the lines of a Mario Edwards,jr. Can play 3-tech and some 5-tech. But, he almost seems better suited inside at the next level.
Possibly A’Shawn Robinson will go in that range — but I wouldn’t want Seattle to go down that route. Free agency or re-sign Mebane for me.
I think there could be some pretty interesting DTs this year offering potentially a deep draft. I’ve been anti-Staton on this one, high on drafting a DT in the first, if Seattle thought he was the BPA at a need position, and can still be in position to land a quality OT in R2, but if the season continues downward, and Seattle is drafting 12 or higher, I think you have to go OL, and then maybe still get a good DT prospect in Rds 2-3. I think DT’s that are versatile and that can get after the QB are going to particularly interest, especially if Clark shows that he is more of an outside guy than an inside one. Washington, Bullard, Nkemdiche, Zettel, Buckner, maybe Reed with his athletic upside, Tapper perhaps, and I personally would throw in Sheldon Rankins who plays all over the Louisville DL, won’t be a 5 tech in their scheme, but is said to be a pretty well coached, technically sound player that could bounce between the 3 and 1 tech on all 3 downs.
It’s not a position of great value though and I think that’s the main issue I have with the DT in round one talk. Unless you’re getting Aaron Donald or Sheldon Richardson (not in this class), it’s just a position you can fill out with vets (as they’ve done successfully under PCJS). The thought of not upgrading the O-line, or waiting until later to do it, fills me with dread. The O-line is at crisis point. It’s clearly the #1 need and the #1 way this team can improve in 2016. The D-line just isn’t in the same stratosphere in terms of need — and they might re-sign Mebane/Rubin.
I don’t know Rob, we are really missing an interior pass rush. Mebane and Rubin have looked like “just a guy” this season, and Hill hasn’t taken that step forward I thought he would. The DT’s have been pretty disappointing so far. Considering we have two of the best edge defenders in football and the defensive front as a whole hasn’t looked that beastly is a testament to the interior defense in my opinion.
Look at what Kawann Short is doing in Carolina, he’s wrecking drives by himself and that’s with bums like Kony Ealy and Jared Allen on the line. I really feel like a really good pass rushing interior lineman would put this defense over the top again.
Rob, your not talking about not addressing DT at all in the draft, just not an early pick on one right?
I wouldn’t touch a DT in round one unless your talking about an Ndamukong Suh, Sheldon Richardson, Aaron Donald, Dontari Poe, someone like that.
Having said that, I do think they need some depth and young,fresh bodies in the interior. Rounds 3-7 seem to have good depth for that. Nothing special, but a Jordan Hll or Beau Allen like impact.
Personally I’m not overly concerned with the DT’s. I’d happily take one later on but ideally I’d like to see Mebane re-signed and another vet added. I think you can find guys here (see: McDaniel, McDonald).
The Seahawks haven’t had a fantastic interior rush since Clinton McDonald though. They’ve been able to get by, and the edge rush has facilitated pressure.
And while a great interior rusher would be nice — there isn’t one in this class that stands out. And the O-line is still far and away the biggest need.
Yeah-I competely agree that the O-line is the biggest need by far.
And I do think they’ll add a vet or re-sign ‘Bane/Rubin, but they need some depth there for sure. They seem to be missing a rotation there like they had in 2013.
I do agree that the o-line is clearly an emergency priority. However, I am with vrtkolman regarding the lack of interior rush. It was much better in previous seasons, worse with each passing year with veteran exits and less adequate replacements. Mebane and Rubin have just been okay, not great.
What made the defense was a fortuitous high level of talent across all positions, d-line, edge rushers, and secondary. We are now seeing the d-line and secondary dropping off due to attrition, coaching changes, the veterans including even Sherman not playing up to the ridiculous high standard. The edge rushers Avril, Bennett, and Irvin are maintaining a high level, but we could lose two of them.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but the needs are across the roster on both sides.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’m not really sure what people expect from a D-line. The way Carson Palmer was pressed on Sunday was superb. He was sacked multiple times, could’ve been sacked a few more and had two forced fumbles and a pick. That was a tremendous performance by the pass rush. They also gave up virtually nothing vs the run until the final draw play for a TD inflated the stats.
Seattle’s O-line is so bad they could realistically spend their first three picks in the draft trying to repair it. It’s on a different stratosphere to any other perceived need on the roster.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, if there’s not a sure fire Suh/Richardson/Donald/Poe sitting at there first pick, I’m not into drafting a DT in R1, just to draft one, and hope he works out, when you got a great shot to land a RT who is going to help solidify the line for the next 5 years. But I also have to say, and I might be bullish on the position (I played it as a kid, My first football hero was Mean Joe Green, My favorite Hawk of all time was Tez) I sense a decline in Mebane, and I’m a little “Meh” on Rubin (although he got a great bull rush sack on Palmer), and my optimism on Hill has been tempered some, and his ability to stay healthy through a full season is a concern. I just don’t see great/good push against stronger lines. Sure, they can likely get by with resigning Mebane/Add Veteran, and continue relying on Mike B to slide inside so long as Mike B is on the team and healthy, but I am legitimately getting the vibe they are on borrowed time with that, and they do not have another player on this roster who can consistently do that. Jonathan Bullard in R2 might ad some quality relief right off the bat, if he’s still there.
It would be great to invest a pick, considerably earlier than R4/R5 on a player that can, make the team, bring an inside presence that’s disruptive, has the upside to be a 3 down starter, if there is a player there. It would be nice to draft an inside player where opposing offenses in a couple years have to account for when they game plan (see Kawann Short). Right now, they don’t the level of DT on the roster. Plus with the size of contracts on the team now, the likelihood/hope that they resign Okung, and Mebane, and sign another veteran DT who brings that quality is unlikely. He will cost too much. So they will probably bring in just another guy. It’s just my humble opinion, but I think the team would be better off trying to fill that void in the draft. You can’t have enough quality defensive lineman, and the depth on the team now is considerably thinner inside than it’s been for a while, and I thought it was a little thin last year.
They do a great job with the edge rushers, they can send some quality linebacking talent on the blitz to mitigate the lack of talent/depth, but against top tier offenses, it’s a roll of the dice, and if your offense is struggling. The solid/unspectacular DT’s get gassed, Mike B wears down going against guys inside who have 50 pounds of mass on him, and it’s a problem as the opposing team’s QB who was harassed earlier is able to step into a pocket and make plays. Been seeing this more than I want to, Frankly.
I think in a private moment, Coach Carroll would like to have that guy. In his Cincy presser we was pretty glowing open the “home grown line” the Bengals drafted starting with Geno in the middle. That stood out when I was listening. I think he was pretty hopeful seeing what Clark good do inside during training camp, but that got tempered considerably as the games got real. Maybe it’s just men, but few years ago, he seems outwardly much higher on the potential of Jesse Williams at 3 tech than Jordan Hill in rookie mini camp in the press. Also, knowing they were high on Donald, interested in Datone Jones the year before, and seemingly very interested in Dominique Easley, you can see players in this draft that may appeal quite a bit.
But in the end, you can’t reach on a player if he’s not there. See James Carpenter and Justin Britt.
I understand the need on the oline but if Seattle is in position to get Coleman from Baylor I would draft him. He screams Seahawky
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13937774/baylor-bears-wr-corey-coleman-had-tough-road-becoming-nation-most-productive-player
Would love Corey Coleman, even if he might be smaller than 5’11 or 5’10.
With the recent release of WR Chris Matthews though, there’s a hole/spot to be filled with a big body.
I actually think Miss St WR De’Runnya ‘Bear’ Wilson would be a fantastic fit for Seattle.
Any word on how serious His injury was?
Duron Carter is on the Colts PS. Is like to see them sign him and see what he can offer
No more #1-type receivers, please. We don’t have the QB, OC, or offensive philosophy to utilize one correctly.
Great write up as always!
One point on the Dallas OL. THe lost Callahan as the OL coach this year adn I think it shows what and impact he had as well as how valuable an OL coach is. This position group above all others that seems to be the case.
Also Rob what do you think it means that Okung is representing himself? I took that as a positive and increased the chances he wanted to re-sign with Sea. What are your thoughts? Would love to see Okung and Coleman as bookend Tackles for the next 5 years!
I hate to lasso the elephant in the room, but as much as Rob has (probably correctly) tried to take a measured reaction to the Bevell debate, let’s take a closer look at the Oak situation:
“The #1 ranked team in pass protection is Oakland surprisingly. Their line consists of free agent pickups Donald Penn, Rodney Hudson, a former 7th rounder J’Marcus Webb signed from Minnesota, undrafted Austin Howard who bounced around three teams before landing with the Raiders and 2014 third round pick Gabe Jackson.
You wouldn’t put that group together and expect greatness. It emphasizes what scheming and a good blend of offensive skill players (Carr, Murray, Cooper & Crabtree) can do for an offense.”
Again – It emphasizes what scheming and a good blend of offensive skill players can do for an offense. I would suggest our offensive skill players (Russ, Lynch, Graham, Lockett, Baldwin) match entirely well to those of Oak…a second-yr QB, half-yr starting RB, rookie WR, and re-birthed WR. So in this scenario, we are left with the “scheming” part of the equation. This is one team and one example, but if we are to give credit to Oak for scheming success for their young players, I am still confused why we can’t rightly expect heavy improvement from our Offensive ‘scheming’ in Seattle.
My bow is open, take your shots…
Yep. Can’t play both sides of the coin. Has the line been a mess the entire time, yes. But as Rob himself has pointed out, they have invested in it, it’s just not working. The necessity to develop DL into OL and the evaluation of them. Bevell can not create a gameplan that works around the bad OL and especially can’t adjust.
Offseason priorities:
1. Fire Bevell
2. Fried Cable
3. Hire Callahan as OC/OL. He is a good OC and a great line coach. Maybe Zorn as QB coach.
4. Let Okung/Sweezy/Kearse/Mebane/Coleman go
5. Resign Shead/Irvin/Tukuafu
6. Restructure Bennett/Avril
7. Maybe let Lynch/Williams go
8. Sign Boone
9. Sign Beachum/Harvenstein
10. Trade Kam (Shead to S)
11. Draft 1st Decker (OT) 2nd Day (DT) 2nd Russell (CB) 3rd Prossie/Perkins/Collins (RB) 3rd Turek (C)
OL Decker/Britt/Turek/Boone/Beachum
If they keep Cable/Bevell:
Trade Graham for a high 2nd (high salary on a passing TE in his offense is a waste)
Sign V. Jackson
I think we should keep Graham and play him as a wide receiver. Surely they can figure out a better use for him in the red zone. For tight ends, I favor big road grader types that can also catch an occasional ball. That should pep up the running game.
If you count Lockett and Baldwin as smerf wide receivers, and add the big road grader tight ends, what you got is your classic smerf and turf offense.
How many pro-bowl offensive lineman has Cable developed in the last five years? I don’t understand why Bevell gets the blame for the offensive line when Cable gets to choose his own lineman but still doesn’t produce anyone worth note.
That’s why they both go. Bevell can’t gameplan or adjust. As Rob said above, look what Oakland has done. The Hawks have the firepower. They should adjust the offense to the strengths and minimize the weaknesses. Bevell tries to fit a square peg into a circle. Prime example is when they acquired Graham, what did Bevell say “he will fit into our offense.” I understand he will have to block more than with the Saints, but Graham is a catching machine. Spread him out wide and throw him the ball. How in the world with Wilson/Lynch/Graham are the Hawks so terrible on 3rd down and in the red zone. Not just the OL, it’s the gameplan and scheme.
Thats a great point, Ed, and i get that they want to be able to put him out there blocking so as not to telegraph pass, but Hey, spread him out wide Bevel, he could draw a LB to the sidelines and give us a running advantage that way,
I agree that if the skill players and sustems if dallas and oakland get credit for the blocking success, that bevel plays a role there too. It took him half a season to counter the pass rush with shorter routes, and that adjustment had an effect on the blocking. Not doing it sooner had an effect on those games. I think there are a large range of adjustments that could help our various shortcomings on offense, which i believe are interlinked.
You can’t say that they haven’t tried to involve Jimmy Graham in the gameplan. I counted 4 drops he had. That’s on him. There’s plays to be made.
I wish someone would show the gif of RW right before he ran into Okung and ‘butt fumble 2.0’ ensued. Russ has a clean pocket, and yet not one WR has even turned around in their route to find/look for the ball.
Yup Wilson is struggling unfortunately. It could be the offensive line, it could be his inability to read the defense, it could be an injury. Something is off & him not taking a step forward is a big reason for the offence’s struggles.
They are as bewildered running this offense as we are watching it.
Theres an article somewhere out there debating the merits of honey badgers statement, that we arent being creative with graham. How often hes inline, how often they sent him out wide and the upshot of it is, he’s always inline for us, and he was usually split wide for N.O. Watch his tape there watch him see the ball is sitiations where they just cant guard him. That isnt happening here.
And why do you think that that the bad offensive line, repeated blown blocks & Wilson’s regression don’t have to do with the offence’s struggles? Yes, Bevell is not blameless but he gets way too much blame than he deserves. It’s like when Greg Roman was driven out of SF and now the starting qb is on the bench.
We haven’t drafted a pro bowl receiver, te or lineman in the last 3-4 years. Isn’t that a failure of the front office? I think Graham is slowly integrating into our offence, half year is hardly much time to develop chemistry the way he had with Brees. I think it will come together eventually with an offseason of continuity.
Tony Gonzalez, the best TE that ever did it IMO, made an intereting point 2 weeks ago. He said it took him about 14 games or so, basucally a full season, before he felt like he fit in and truly undertood the offense. Of course I’m talking about when he first arrived in ATL.
At the end of the day, it is Bevell’s responsibility to maximize his chess pieces, whatever those pieces may be. Let’s not pretend the cupboard is bare. Zero improvement has been.
As Frank perfectly stated “They are as bewildered running this offense as we are watching it.”
zero improvement has been made*
Rob — love the blog; always learn something here.
Forgive me if you’ve addressed it before, but curious how you weigh Coleman’s age. I know he’s getting big ups for conquering cancer — hats off, of course, and obviously that’s altered the path of his life. But from the cold-hearted perspective of his 32 potential future employers, he turns 24 years old next week. By comparison, Tunsil, Decker, and Stanley will all have their 22nd birthday during the 2016 preseason; they’re each 33 months younger. Ronnie Clark is also only 21. (March 1991 birthday)
I’m not concerned about a hypothetically slightly shorter NFL career, but as an evaluation tool for judging how good these guys really are and what their potential pro ceilings might be … shouldn’t a 24-year-old be kicking the ass of 20- and 21-year-old pass rushers? Does that affect the way you grade him as a prospect vs. a guy like Tunsil, were you to mentally project three more years of physical and technical development for the latter? Or is that not the right way to approach it?
* factual cleanup: Tucker, Decker, and Conklin — all August 1994 birthdays. Ronnie Stanley, March 1994.
Le’Raven Clark is April 1993 but I began and then meant to abort the dive into the next swath of line prospects since the point is clear enough.
Obviously in an ideal world he would be younger — but the Seahawks drafted a 24-year-old Bruce Irvin with the #15 pick in 2012 (he turned 25 in November that year). And I think he has shown some growth as a more rounded player. I think physically he’s had to start almost from scratch due to the cancer. I’m not too concerned with the age.
Not only that, the fact Seattle hasn’t shied away from older prospects, but most rookie O-lineman aren’t read until their 23-25 years old anyways. At least lately it’s been that way.
The elephant in the room is Tom Cable. If our line doesn’t develop into a competent one by the end of the season, Cable has to go. He has done a great job in the past with the number one run game on consecutive seasons. However, his lines have failed miserably in pass protection this year being the ultimate worst. If you have a 20M QB, you need pass protection more than a physical run game.
Second, as you just said, recent history suggests signing veterans is providing more bang for the buck than drafting offensive lineman high. Why does Seattle have a 80-90M defense but still unable to hold 4th quarter leads repeatedly? Its time to cut the fat in the defense and sign some offensive talent like Mack or Wisniewski or hell even Mathis. This probably won’t happen immediately but it has to be the aim over the next 2 years. I would hope they draft secondary early, trade Chancellor & Cary Williams and sign Lane to a modest contract (if he is still recovering from injury).
Third, someone needs to mathematically analyze if Spark score is really improving the quality of the roster. To my untrained eye, most of their hyped up Spark prospects from the last couple of years have failed. I think if we don’t find a Spark home run this year, its time to close this Al Davis chapter.
Fourth Lynch is a wild card. He may retire or could be cut if Rawls can take over. That being said, I am torn on this since I love watching him play. Even last sunday, it was fun to see him break tackle after tackle. He sure has become a little inconsistent this year but it could be the offensive line.
My bad, the cap is not that skewed for next year. For 2016, the defense is 69M and offense 51M still pretty skewed but not to the extent I thought. 2017 is when the defensive cap peaks at $71M for only 12 players currently signed for that year.
I look at the OL and i dont see “Cable has to go he cant coach.”
I see, “Cable needs to have less input on who we draft”, and
“Dont trust Cable to take a mountain of shit and turn it into money.”
Agree with you Frank, let the scout pick are next couple of guys and let Tom coach them up. bring in Chow or Sark as O coordinator and can Beavell.
Norm Chow — 70 years old next May and has never coached in the NFL. Recently fired by Hawaii after losing 58-7 to Air Force with a 10-36 record in four years.
Sark — recently fired at USC because he has a serious drinking problem which undoubtedly will be his priority, not football, for the near future.
And when these are the suggested alternatives, this is why the ‘Fire Bevell’ campaign carries no weight.
I acknowledge the unlikelihood of Chow or anyone else replacing Bevell. That’s as much because of how PC feels about Bevell than anything else. And obviously with respect to Chow, his age and past with PC are major impediments.
But Chow was an NFL OC for 3 years – all with TEN – and in his third year they went to the playoffs.
Also, the criticism of his tenure at Hawaii doesn’t carry weight, at least unless and until a coach comes along and turns Hawaii into a winning program.
“Also, the criticism of his tenure at Hawaii doesn’t carry weight”
I was wrong about the NFL experience, granted. But I don’t see any reason to ignore his record at Hawaii. People want to upgrade Bevell with a guy who just tanked his last job and is pushing 70. I find that bizarre.
I never claimed Chow was head coach material. Obviously he isn’t. But his record as an OC/QB guru is exemplary.
Anyway, I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me it was a bit of fanciful daydreaming. I had a front row seat for USC’s glory days with PC and Chow.
But in the end I agree with you Rob.
Rob, I know you are pro Bevell, but I don’t understand why. Nobody knows better options at this time, so it is pointless to speculate who would be better, but it’s time to try. Yes, the offensive line has not been very good. However, gameplan for it. Adapt to it. Adapt to Graham and your assets, not have an ego and say Graham will do what Luke Wilson does. You can’t keep blaming the players (Harvin/Graham), even Lynch doesn’t like Bevell as OC, for Bevell not being able to work to their strengths. The problems the Hawks have had for years, has not changed. Red zone and 3rd down. There is no ingenuity to his scheme. You can argue all about the yards and getting to SB, but for the most part, it is in spite of the offense, not because of it. Wilson in the 4th quarter (where he did his best), was without much Bevell, it was just play. Lynch breaks tackles and gets his yards. Wilson had 1000 yds rushing last year (some designed, a lot not designed). There is no mix up, no keeping teams on their toes. He isn’t sniffed out as a HC because teams don’t see anything, while the D coordinators are leaving year after year.
I don’t know who, but I would say B. Callahan would be a good person to start with. Good OC (run the ball and quick passes with some shots down the field), great line coach. Two birds with one stone.
“Rob, I know you are pro Bevell, but I don’t understand why”
I’m not pro-Bevell, I’m just not anti-Bevell. I think this is an incredibly difficult team to coordinate for. You have a Head Coach admitting publicly he wants to be the best scrambling team in the NFL. He wants controlled chaos, but he also wants conservatism and ball control. Carroll’s vision is essentially contradictory. There’s also an assistant head coach who is tasked with controlling the run game and picking the O-line scheme. So Bevell is having to work with two others to coach this thing. Meanwhile some of the things that are failing — like the O-line — are nothing to do with Bevell.
He isn’t flawless. The way they aren’t finding a niche for Jimmy Graham hurts. The run/pass balance frustrates me as much as anyone at times. But it seems to me people want a scapegoat and they aren’t ready to pile on Carroll, Cable or Wilson — so Bevell is an easy target.
I’m with you on all points. I have commented on your awesome site some of those same sentiments. I don’t like the OL philosophy and dependence on Cable (as I stated above, I want him gone too). I don’t like the overprotectiveness on Wilson. PC keeps throwing Wilson under the bus (it seems to me) at his press conferences. He seems to think one missed pass cost the Hawks the game at times. It just doesn’t feel like he watches the game at times, because the offense has been sporadic and inconsistent for years now. The Hawks have won the TO battle multiple times this year and all were losses. Who cares if he turns the ball over, as long as you take some shots and chances and have some ingenuity in your playcalling. PC and JS aren’t going anywhere, that’s why Bevell and Cable are the easy targets. In the offseason, the Hawks need to make a change and revamp the offensive philosophy. From how they evaluate OL to how they gameplan and make adjustments. Too much talent on this team to expect anything else.
If nothing changes, would you think the Hawks would have to trade Graham? That’s a lot of cash to someone that you have block a lot. Money would be better served if you can’t use him properly to fix 3rd down and red zone efficiency.
I always thought a player like Graham would take this offense to a new level. Now I’m not so sure. I think the beauty of Seattle’s offense in 2013-14, with hindsight, was probably the lack of a ‘star’ target. There was zero pressure to ‘feed’ anyone the ball. No scrutiny on how they used their weapons. It seemed to work perfectly well. Graham, rather than offer a unique mismatch, provides a constant distraction as we debate his target, production and use.
Will they trade him? Doubt it. I think they’re better without him though. Again, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But instead of going big on Harvin and Graham they were probably better off adding young talent with modest expectations, spreading the ball around and making Lynch the only true star (aside from Wilson). I’m not sure they can or will go back to that because Graham’s trade value will be paltry. They won’t get a first rounder for him that’s for sure. So now they have to make it work.
I might write a bigger piece on this tonight.
I’ve always felt that way personally. I keep going back to when PC said he looks at his WR core as a Basketball starting lineup, with a 6th man.
Instead of Russ just getting into a groove and spreading the ball around, this year and some of last year, his throws seem forced.
Another way to look at it is to ask if you would rather have Graham or Unger on the Seahawks right now?
I remember a stat last year that when Unger was in the lineup the Hawks averaged a full touchdown more per game. That’s pretty significant. His durability was a concern, no question there yet he seemed to pull it together by the playoffs each season.
The Seahawks FO have kinda pulled a “Rick Neuheisel” maneuver. When he got to UW he went after the candy(skill positions). The hogs were no longer a priority.
I think Unger was a gonner anyway. Injured too often, well played. I sense they were ready to move on. It wasn’t Unger for Graham plus a first rounder. It was Unger for a fourth, Graham for a first.
Actually Rob Norm Chow was the Tennessee Titans OC for 2 seasons. After USC won their firsf title. He DOES have NFL experience albiet short lived
So he was, I stand corrected. I still don’t think he’s even remotely qualified for the role.
I dont know Rob, just because the alternatives suggested by casual fans have flaws, doesnt mean that viable candidates dont exist. I think Chow might be ok. Ive heard Scott Linehan, if he gets canned, and i think he’d be a terrific hire.
Bevel was a decent hire for a rebuilding team. Our offense isnt getting it done now in so many areas and other than RW, bevel is the only common element and his shortcomings are obvious and well-catalogued, as is his inability or disinclination to improve on them.
We replaced Bradley and Quinn (wish we’d kept Norton jr), why shouldnt we be open to giving someone else a try on offense? The patriots have shifted their identity from defense to offense adjusting to the pieces on their roster. We have pieces on the board that could do a lot more i.m.o.
Really liked the OL rundown in rhis post.
I’m not opposed to a change. I’m just opposed to the idea that Norm Chow or Steve Sarkisian are in any way a preferable alternative.
Honestly Rob, I know you aren’t making the decision and it isn’t like Bevell is YOUR guy, but we don’t have to have a legacy established OC to replace him. How just a young mind with some fresh ideas? Josh McDaniel was an unknown before his stint in NE. i am sure there is a QBs coach or an offensive assistant out there with some fresh ideas who would be worth a chance. You keep talking about our window- well this season has been a total waste in the middle of the window with a dead last in the league offense that shows no signs of legitimate turn around. It isn’t ALL the OLine. I honestky think keep Bevell wastes our window more defintely than bring in someone fresh
I’m not opposed to making that kind of move. But who?
Callahan (good OC, great OL)
Whisenhunt (bad HC, great OC)
Kiffin (bac HC, great OC)
Kiffin was a horrrendous HC, and a middling OC.
As the saying goes, ‘there’s not a better option until there is.’
Russell is the main issue. What (other) OC would know how to get him to fix some of his bad habits and evolve into a great QB?
The clumsy structure with Cable as the running guy, Bevell as the passing guy has never made much sense. Yes I know, “it’s worked”. But now it isn’t working that well, and has never been ideal.
Sean Payton of course, after he’s canned this off-season!
If that happens teams will queu up, pro and college, to offer him their HC position. No way he ever returns to assistant ranks.
My scenario at this time is by the time Seattle picks somewhere in the 20’s. Tunsil, Coleman, and Decker will be gone and in that order. I don’t think Coleman gone unnoticed but is quietly being watch by a lot of teams to see how he finishes this year. I’m looking at resigning Russel Okung but letting Sweezey go. This is what my Line would look like.
LT Russel Okung
LG Justin Britt or a Joe Dahl (3rd rd comp pick maybe even 4th round)
C Jack Allen (2 rd pick)
RG Mark Glowinski or Terry Poole
RT Jake Conklin (1st rd pick)
I think Dahl drops some due to injury and he would be a steal in the 4th round. If he doesn’t start he could be the backup for leftside of the line. With this arrangement everyone would be locked for next 3 years except for Britt who would be a FA in 2.
It looked good on paper- Bernie Madoff
Schefter reporting the NFL will allow compensatory picks to be traded starting in 2016.
Interesting.
Regarding who could replace Bevell and Cable, why not do what other teams have done to our defensive coordinators. Look for the most successful offenses and offer their assistant or head coaches top dollar. That would be New England, Denver possibly the Saints coordinators.
Also there is the Carroll family legacy, he has two sons on staff now.
What teams am I missing?
SEA’s DCs weren’t lured away to be DCs elsewhere. They were lured by the opportunity to become HC.
I expect most, if not all, of the OCs out there who would be of interest to SEA are looking to become a HC, not another OC for a different team.
Supposing that we only want an elite oc, you might be right. But I think we could make do with someone who’s just “good”. Who can orchestrate an NFL offense, adjust to what is and isnt working during and between games and call an orthodox game. Who Pete can trust enough to take off the training wheels, possibly. I dont think its kubiak/turner or bust.
Rob, wanted to run a few guys/names by ya.
Spencer Drango, OL, Baylor- I’ve seen some say athletically and physique wise he compares to Jordan Gross. Baylor O-lineman have struggled in the NFL, and is he more of a guard?
Ricky Seals-Jones, WR, Texas A&M- seen him mocked as high as the 2nd round. What am I missing, if anything? I get the potential, but seems to kind of just ‘go through the motions.’
Josh Harvey-Clemons, S/LB, L’ville- I actually prefer to him to Clemson’s Jayron Kearse. Think he’d make a really exciting late round, ‘project’ kind of prospect.
Josh Perry, OLB, Ohio St.- Great run defender, team leader, high character, is he a dynamic pass rusher that can convert speed to power or vice versa?
You more or less agree?
Wasn’t impressed with Drango vs Oklahoma. Looked distinctly average.
Seals-Jones — major disappointment this year based on what I’ve seen.
Joshua Perry — nice size but not sure I see a next level pass rusher.
Harvey-Clemons — haven’t watched.
Thanks for the feedback my man. Basically on the same page with these 4 guys.