They could be father and son...
The Seahawks are running out of needs to address. They have a left tackle. They have an offensive MVP with star quality. They have a defense that now includes pass rush + linebackers + secondary. Only one big question mark remains, and it’s a biggie.
Quarterback… How I’ve missed talking about quarterbacks over the last four months since it became obvious Seattle was drafting a pass rusher in round one.
The subject has kind of been pushed to one side, and not just because it was never a realistic option for the Seahawks at #12. Matt Flynn was evidently enough of a ‘name’ to satisfy those craving some kind of hope for the future. It probably helped that like a previous Seahawks starter, Flynn was a late round pick from the Green Bay Packers who spent time backing up a brilliant veteran. Not that this will have any bearing or relevance on whether Flynn will be a success like Matt Hasselbeck. This is a very different situation and environment.
The Seahawks also added a third round pick into the mix with Russell Wilson. And since they drafted Wilson, there’s been widespread grinning among the teams front office. Fans are hoping this is the guy if Flynn doesn’t cement the job, if not in 2012 than certainly beyond that.
Pete Carroll is again talking about competition and he’s comfortable with that. He’s thriving on that. Who wins the job? Who knows? Is Russell Wilson actually competing to start, or competing to be the #2? Again, who knows? Most people expect Matt Flynn to get his shot in 2012, which isn’t unreasonable given the investment made during free agency. If nothing else it’s a healthier competition this year than in 2011 when Tarvaris Jackson was handed the job as soon as he walked into the building.
However, this continuous competition is part of the problem. Unless Jackson retains his position at the starter, it’ll be three different starting quarterbacks in three years under Carroll, plus a failed project in Charlie Whitehurst. I’m not sure Seattle can just keep rolling through guys every year until one sticks. It kind of sounds like a good idea, but eventually you need some consistency back there. Eventually, you need to make a long term commitment and say, “this is our guy and we’re going to build around him.” Sometimes a quarterback needs more than one season to prove himself. The low cost level of Seattle’s additions so far has made each quarterback disposable and therefore easy to remove as a starter.
Even if Seattle’s offense will be based around the run, recent history suggests the Seahawks will need a quarterback of a certain quality to become consistent challengers. We can have a debate about a lasting need at receiver or on the offensive line, but Seattle’s #1 priority in the aftermath of the 2012 draft is still finding a long term option at quarterback.
That’s not to say I criticise what the team has done so far. In three drafts, they’ve simply not had the chance to draft ‘the one’. Jimmy Clausen, Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy were not the answer in 2010. The 2011 group of quarterbacks didn’t offer much hope and I still think the team was correct not to spend the #25 pick on Andy Dalton. In 2012, three quarterbacks left the board before the #8 pick. You can’t magic a quarterback out of the sky. However, they have to be prepared. One day they will get a chance and they need to be ready to take it, even if the prize comes with a certain price.
Wilson could be the guy. But here’s the problem and the point I was trying to make when suggesting he should be considered as a starter in 2012. If the Seahawks start Flynn and he turns out to be another Whitehurst or Jackson, I’m not convinced they can avoid going big on a quarterback unless it’s completely impossible. All it took for Dallas to move from #14 in the draft to #5 was a second round pick. Unless there’s a top-heavy situation at quarterback this year like we saw with Andrew Luck and Griffin III, the Seahawks would have to consider making a similar move if a player like Matt Barkley is available in that 3-10 range.
In doing that, you’ll never know how good Wilson could be. Maybe they’re comfortable with that situation? Maybe Wilson’s grade made him too good to pass and insurance in case the Seahawks can’t go big in 2013? Yet given that both Carroll and Schneider have gushed about the guy’s potential, I would’ve thought they’d seriously believe he has a chance to start in the league. And in that case, wouldn’t they want to know what he can do before they spend picks on a Barkley or Logan Thomas?
The idea of trying Flynn in 2012 and then maybe Wilson in 2013 – without drafting a quarterback who is instantly recognised as ‘the guy’ would be difficult to stomach if a pro-active move was conceivable.. I appreciate the philosophy of this franchise, the competition mantra, the background of John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the way they’ve dealt with quarterbacks in the past with a lot of success. But I also appreciate that this is a quarterback driven league, even if you do want to dominate with the run.
Maybe Flynn does a great job? Maybe Wilson wins the gig and makes geniuses of Seattle’s front office? Or maybe the Seahawks go into next years draft in the same position they’ve entered the last three drafts – with an unclear situation at QB. If that’s the case, there’s going to be a lot of pressure to find a solution. It will be, after all, the 20th anniversary of the teams last first round investment in a quarterback next year. And that is why it’s still the teams greatest need. No position requires long term thinking quite like the role of a quarterback. Until the Seahawks start going into an off-season programme with an unquestioned starter at the position, it will go on remaining the biggest need… and it aint close.
What other positions do you think we could be talking about investing a 1 in next year if we are a team between 15-20 or Flynn/Wilson give more than a glimpse of hope? WR is logical to me as we will know a lot more about Rice, Lockette, Durham, Tate, and BMW. I could see Keenan Allen or Justin Hunter as the outside threat to Doug Baldwin’s inside. Baldwin could also prove to be able to play outside a la Cruz and Greg Jennings this year so we’ll see. Maybe DT? Branch and Jones will be free agents and a Lotulelei quality player could intrigue. Browner could be even more penalized and become a liability to make corner a 1st round need, but I doubt it. TE? They were looking HARD for a TE this year and didn’t address it. Maybe Miller gets to run some routes and improves a little this upcoming season. Inteiror OL if McQuistan regresses, Unger leaves in FA, and Carpenter/Moffitt never get to 100%. Looks like its all speculation (as is with most teams 350 days away from the draft), but as you said, the Seahawks are running out of needs to address.
Getting a great interior pass rusher would be the final piece of a blossoming defense, but they may have that guy if Jones works out. Apart from that you can never have enough good WR’s and CB’s. But until someone proves worthy of long term QB consideration that position remains the greatest priority.
Biggest need next year will be resigning players.
Based off the biased opinions of seahawks analysis and us, fans, we should be solid in every position this season. The weakside linebacker should be addressed if Smith doesn’t show improvement. A big slot reciever could be addressed if Durham doesn’t show promise of replacing BMW (who i think won’t make the roster).
Depending on if Jones proves worthy, we could resign him or look for his replacement….
But PC and JS seem to have a unique style of drafting. If they have flexibility next year, I think they’ll do as they always do (something unpredictable).
The re-sign list isn’t horrible–Unger, Clemons, Jones, Ruud, Branch, Morah, Butler, Gresham, Hauschka, Hill, McDonald, Lutui, Trufant, and TJack in contract years, might have missed a few more.
Toomer gets a shot behind Hill on the strongside, Wagner and Ruud in the middle, Malcolm Smith has the speed they want to win the Weakside. LB will be interesting to watch in camp/preseason.
I think the Seahawks’ QBOTF is already on the roster. I get the impression that PC/JS think the same. They’re not thinking about the 2013 QB class. They’re bouncing around like they won the lottery.
But I think their confidence in RW’s abilities to be a franchise starting QB are exactly why they won’t rush him (except in the unlikely event that he shows up and so thoroughly dominates that they are forced to start him ahead of schedule). RW doesn’t need reps to improve since he already has physical aspects of the game pretty solid. He just needs to sit in the tape room for a year and learn the intricacies of NFL offenses and defenses. Because at his height, he’ll need to be the smartest man on the field to succeed. If they don’t see him progressing well enough in his mastery of the playbook, then they may reluctantly set their sights on the 2013 draft. But I just don’t see that happening – RW will eat up the playbook for breakfast, I say.
I agree, I get the impression that PC/JS are cautiously optimistic that they just got their franchise QB with a 3rd round pick. I don’t sense cocksure arrogance or anything like that, but I would bet in their minds, the chances of Wilson becoming a top 15 starter in this league are better than the chances he does not.
Wilson can be that guy- but it will be critical for the Seahawks to build an offense to support Wilson’s unique talent. Building a top 10 offensive line and a top 10 running game will be of enormous importance, not just because the point guard role by its very nature is a “pass to set up the run” type of position, but also because Wilson proved last year that he especially shines in such a role. He’ll also need more time than an average QB to finish his drops and find his throwing lanes, so protection will be key. Russell Wilson is NOT Tom Brady, he’s not a guy you would channel your entire offense through. Instead he’s a guy that can be the perfect compliment for a run first offense.
If Matt Barkley experiences an Aaron Rodgers slip, the Seahawks should draft him, even if they think Wilson is the guy- and I think they probably would. Barkley and Carroll are air-tight friends, and by adding Barkley to the mix, you all but guarantee a franchise QB while opening up the possibility of trading a QB (or two) down the road, just like Green Bay has done.
If there are 5-6 1st round QBs next year and one falls to where they will drafting (late in the 1st!!!) they would be wise to snag one if not move up for one. They want to add one every year. But if Portis is still around and developing, he could be a great option as well, he has a lot of upside.
On defense Seattle will need to add another pass rusher next year- unless Dexter Davis proves himself to be a 10 sack a year talent between now and then. Chris Clemons will be a soon to be 32 year old free agent next year. Seattle won’t upgrade the pass rush long term if they only drafted Irvin to replace Clemons. They’ll need to find another guy to compliment Irvin after Clemons is done, which will be soon.
On offense, I think we’ll have to see how the season shakes out. Seattle is not horribly weak at any area on offense, but doesn’t stand out anywhere either, except possibly running back. Right now the weakest spot on offense is probably offensive line (statistically near the bottom of the league last year). But then again, Moffitt and Carpenter will probably improve, Jeanpierre could improve, Lutui could be a Mike Williams style reclamation at guard, and if McQuistan and Giacomini hold steady, then our line could actually remain in good shape.
I won’t lie though, I am pretty nervous about the decision to let Gallery go. He was critical to our run game last season, and critical to Max Unger’s big step forward. I suspect his presence in the run game will be sorely missed.
I totally agree, Irvin upgrades Raheem Brocks spot. They still need an understudy for Clemons who could soon be the oldest guy on the roster.
I think they are stuck with what they have at the QB position. I also think they like what they have. If they had traded for 2013 draft capital as you suggested it would be a different story. I wonder if they had traded for future picks if that would have effected the RW pick.
They will be picking too late in the first round to move up into the top 10 IMO.
Don’t think so, they loved RW and would have selected him in the third regardless of actual QB strength on the team. JS was extremely impressed when he scouted him.
I too think that Russell Wilson could very well start even this year but if he isn’t our guy I think 2 guys we should seriously consider next year are Barkley and Thomas.The other need I think again should be addressed next year is pass rush because Clemons will be a FA and he isn’t getting any younger and the Giants have proven you can never have too many pass rushers.Besides Barkley and Thomas who do you think could come into the 1st round as a qb???
I think we will after a CB next year, but since we will be picking in the 30’s we will be forced to take the BPA. But that will be ok, since we don’t NEED anything…
Doug,
You are very optimistic that you think the Hawks will be picking in the 30’s. I hope you are kidding, or you will be in for a big dose of reality.
I think the Hawks have improved their team through the draft, but so did everyone else. All they did was stay even with everyone else. They didn’t add enough talent to improve their win total by much, if any.
The hawks will be picking in the 10-15 range next year. They will need to give up some picks to move up to get Barkely. ireally hope RW is the QBOF, and they give him enough starter games to find out this year. I think Flynn is a descent back up, and that is all he will be.
This is ridiculous. If the Seahawks are picking 10-15, Carroll will be gone and rightfully so. The Seahawks will now have a top 5 defense, with the additions of Irvin and more. The offense will have much more upside this year with Flynn and we already had talent in the receiving corps, with Rice, Baldwin, Miller, and more. Lynch is a top back and Turbin will compliment him nicely. If you look at this objectively, we have no weaknesses that have not been addressed in this offseason. You may not like how they addressed them, but we have to wait and see how the moves work out. If the additions work out, we will be a top ten team, with a chance of going to the Super Bowl.
There is no chance in hell of getting Barkley and people need to get that out of their heads or they are going to be disappointed. Personally, I’ve watched Barkley in a lot of games and there is not much of a difference between Flynn and Barkley. They both have average arm strength and are very good technically, so it is funny for me to watch the same people degrade Flynn and promote Barkley. I still remember the touchdown pass against Oregon to Marquise Lee, who was way past the defender, have to come back to catch the ball because of Barkley’s lack of great arm strength. If he had better arm strength he would be able to utilize his great receivers much more than he has shown, which is still very good. Flynn and Barkley both have limited upside, because of the average arm strength, so I only see them becoming, at most, a Matt Ryan level player, which is good, but nothing like a franchise qb, that you know will win games in spite of the surrounding talent. Maybe that is all we need, but if we want more, we have to look towards Logan Thomas (if he declares), Tyler Wilson, or even Tyler Bray, because even though they might be less than Barkley as a technical passer, they have much, much more upside due to the physical talents they possess. Barkley probably has a bigger floor, but since we already have Flynn, who I believe is about equal to Barkley, I would like to take the chance to go for the bigger upside guy. We might see Barkley 10 years from now in the Matt Ryan, Matt Hasselbeck group of qb, but I personally don’t think he has the physical upside to be much more than that. I want the next Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, who has all the tools to be great and I feel with the physical tools, Wilson and Thomas have more of a chance and upside to be those guys, than Barkley. Just my 2 cents.
That’s silly. Not every team improved themselves the same amount in the draft. Some teams’s drafts will pan out, others won’t. I also wouldn’t give up on Matt Flynn before he’s even had a real practice in a Seahawks uniform.
I think you’re in for a rude awakening because you’re being pessimistic. The NFL is not like the NBA. In the NBA, you pretty much know how the team will be year to year. The NFL though is not the same, you don’t have slow advances, you usually have teams making huge leaps. Judging by what the Seahawks were able to do last year, I think this year will see a huge leap. The advancement in the QB position will be mainly responsible, but the team will also get better on the OLINE. Oline is one of those positions where i think coaching and time are the most important aspects, over draft status. This Oline has the best oline coach in the league in my opinion, and we will see a dominant performance from them next year.
I’d put the over/under on Hawk wins this year at 11-12.
The better you are, the more difficult it is to improve. For example, the 49ers went 13-3. Their defensive wsa top 5 in the league. Statistically it is not likely they repeat or improve that performance. The Seahawks went 7-9, statistically they have far greater room for improvement and less room for regression. It’s the same thing with activiities like weightlifting. When you’re only benching a 100 lbs, adding 50 lbs to your bench is fairly easy. When you’re benching 400 lbs, it’s very difficult to add even 10lbs. We don’t know where our max potential is. But unless you consider 7-9 near the max potential of the current roster, we have a quite a few reasons to believe we will be better next year.
Wow Doug. Seriously, us Flynn your neighbor or something? Because that is either a clever jive, or a really unrealistic expectation. Let’s work on a winning record and being consistent in the 3 phases before we crown ourselves
We have plenty of reasons to be optimistic and I don’t think the Seahawks will be your typical middle of your pack team… with our speed on defense… that’s how we improved… speed. All our draft picks ran under a 5.0 forty which was the heaviest prospect at 300. Seahawks added a leo lber who blitzes at 4.4 speed. They added a MLB/OLB who also runs in 4.4 plus another uber athletic olb with 4.5 speed. Throw in two ultra physical dbs with 4.5 speed and two quick defensive tackles with 4.8 speed. And you got a defensive pass rushing foundation behind Clem and 1 year Wonderboy Jason Jones.If we liked Hargeove last year, then Jones should be primed to blow you away with interior pass rush.
You have to like Seattles situation at QB. TJ is servicable enough to start, had he not been injured I could the Seahawks winning 1-2 more games. Flynn could very well be the next Matt Hasselbeck in the mold of Aaron Rodgers, and all Flynn has done is win with every oppu. Russell Wilson might be the future legacy, not many players possess the talent and intangibles he has only to be handicapped by his height.
Pete absolutely gushes when talking about Russell Wilson. Even yesterday at the practice, where everyone was all about Flynn vs Tarvaris, Pete saved his highest praise and unbridled enthusiasm until he was asked about Wilson. He never has said anything even remotely close about Flynn since the signing. Every sign points to him naming Wilson the starter, as near-impossible as that is to believe given the situation with Flynn just coming aboard. Most coaches just could not bring themselves to drop a bomb of this sort, and take this risk, but I believe Pete would relish the shock waves. Add to that Wilson is the ideal Pete-style pointguard QB, with the highest passer efficiency rating in history, and this time around (unlike with the Bruce Irvin pick) we have learned to take Pete at his word.
I am one of those who truly believes that Wilson will be the long-sought franchise QB, although I agree that if Barkley is at a decent price (swap 1’s & add the 2) as opposed to a Redskins-type deal, the Seahawks should select him. In that case, Flynn would be let go after an eh-so-what season, Tarvaris’ contract will be up, so the competition would be between Wilson and Barkley. Even then, I believe Wilson is the better QB, though you could be sitting on top of two gold mines.
As far as other positions, a #1 split end would be the main need, although Lockette has real potential there. Another DT and OL is always welcome. Leroy Hill will need to be replaced at Will. Like this year, when realistically the only starting position open going into the draft was at Mike, the roster next year is pretty well set. Just find the QB and off to the races!
I think the defense is pretty good now, maybe they will add a linebacker to take Hill’s place in the draft.
I just don’t see any break away, offensive threats that teams need to plan for. This is strange given Pete’s focus on speed. I was really disappointed when LaMichael James got drafted by 49r’s, I was hoping the Hawks would grab him. He would be great as a third down back who can run and catch, and run kick offs and punts. Maybe there is another player similar in next years draft in round 2 after they take Barkley.
To answer your question, I don’t think Seattle even looks at QBs in next year’s draft. They have Wilson/Flynn as their 1/2 (or 2/1) and will know if Wilson is the real deal whether he starts or not.
I think Wilson starts, or becomes the starter by the end of the season, and I think he will be Seattle’s long-term answer at the position. With that young man starting, and Flynn as either trade-bait (the only way Seattle gets a top-10 pick again anytime soon) Seattle will spend it’s draft capital upgrading whatever position the draft has to offer.
Once this gets sorted out, I predict Wilson will be the long-term starter with Portis the long-term back-up.
If Flynn starts in 2012, I think he will do fine, if not out-and-out great. If Wilson sits, that will be fine as well, as he will simply get better by doing so.
I wouldn’t worry about whether PC feels he can commit to a QB. When the time comes, it will be Wilson, no matter how well Flynn plays, because Flynn simply doesn’t have the physical skills PC wants at the position. There are plays he can’t make with his arm, with his legs, that Wilson can, and half-a-dozen times a game, that difference will make a difference.
As with anything, I think the attitude has to be, “Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.” I agree that the roster churn at the QB isn’t ideal, but I’m not sure if there has been any alternative to this point. I actually don’t think that Jackson played that badly last year, although I would also probably agree that he’s never going to develop into a franchise QB. I certainly hope that either Flynn or Wilson take the job and run with it. One would think that Wilson has time on his side, but if Barkley (or someone similar) is available to us in next year’s draft, he might be facing a career as a backup.
As for other positions, I still view the 3-tech as something of a work in progress. Hopefully Jason Jones and Jaye Howard upgrade the pass rush at that position. And while I like our depth at WR, I have concerns about Sidney Rice’s ability to stay healthy. He’s really the only #1 we have at the position, imho. When he’s out, the offense looks very different. Another major injury and I think it might be time to start looking for someone in the draft.
Other thoughts…
– Does anyone have any reports from mini-camp? The Seattle Times had an article on the QB competition, but I wanted to see if anyone had any notes on how the rookies looked.
– Andrew Perloff has a 2013 mock, which I’m sure will be completely accurate:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andrew_perloff/05/01/2013.nfl.mock.draft/index.html?sct=nfl_wr_a2
We get Matt Barkley! But we also finish with the eighth pick. What’s up with that?
– Off Topic, #1: Congratulations to Sheffield Wednesday on their promotion to the Championship. I hope there are some celebrations going on into the night in the (other) Steel City. Now United has to make it two-for-two in the playoffs. Do it for Ned Stark!
– Off Topic, #2: Today’s moment of Zen, courtesy of Seattle’s other football club.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgGMBTgoA2E
Thanks as always, Rob.
I disagree with your opinion that Jackson did not play bad. I feel he played extremely poorly. A qbs main job is to help the team win the game and one way a qb is measured is by comebacks to win the game. For as bad as Whitehurst was, he had one. Jackson had none. When you go into the 4th quarter trailing with Jackson as the qb, you know that you have already lost the game, unless the defense wins the game for you. That is unacceptable for the qb position and talking to Vikings fans, this is the same Jackson that was removed as the starter for Favre and was extremely mediocre there and is extremely mediocre. This guy is a backup, because if you can’t lead your team to a win, you don’t belong on the football field. He had 6-7 chances to win in 4th quarter and he failed each time. If he had even won half of them, we would have been in the playoffs. I mean we were losing against the giants and Whitehurst comes in and leads the team to the winning td drive, which gave the seahawks the lead, until browner’s pick 6. I mean what does that say about Jackson. if not how poor he was last year. Whitehurst gets a comeback, but Jackson can’t? We need to improve the qb position with Flyn or Wilson or anybody else or we will never make the playoffs with Jackson, without an all time d, like the 49ers last year, who still had a superior qb with Smith>>>Jackson.
Also, how do you know they will try to replace Wilson with Barkley. Personally, I see Flynn=Barkley in every way and I see Barkley as extremely overrated. They both are similar technically and physically and have the same upside as a Hasselbeck, Matt Ryan level qb, in my view. If WIlson beats out Flynn, which would be a great accomplishment for him, then I believe he would also beat out Barkley and would be a better qb than him, so there would be no need to waste a pick on Barkley. I would actually sell high on Barkley and get a big ransom if he is there where we pick, which would be a big disappointment, because I don’t see anyway we pick in the top ten and if we do hopefully Carroll is fired. I see us picking in the 20s and we won’t get a top qb, like Thomas, Tyler Wilson, etc. If we want a qb, then we will have to settle for an Aaron Murray or Geno Smith type, that we will have to develop, which is fine if Russel Wilson doesn’t work out, but unnecessary if he does.
I really hope we draft a 1st rd. QB next year, but Rob’s right. If RW is the QBotF, start him at some point this year, unless Flynn solidifies himself as the starter. I don’t want them wagering everything on a 3rd rd pick. If someone like Barkley, Wilson, or Thomas falls to us next year, is it really ok to just let them go by? I don’t think so, and will be disappointed if they do.
That is of course unless Flynn/Wilson shows reason to believe they can make us a consistent contender.
Too much QB talent is surely not a problem. That said, Seattle will knowingly play QB’s based on the balance of the season. A TJack opening start to allow for some gaffs via the offensive line would not surprise me. That, followed by Flynn, to both give the season a lift, and to give him value in 2014. If the season is middling, then Flynn plays the side to raise value (or finish him off), with every intention of a) drafting a QBOTF in round 1, or prepping the Seattle offense for Wilson in 2013.
I doubt Wilson will play much this year, let alone start.
Flynn is going nowhere as we will all soon see. The Flynn v Jackson talk will quickly morph into Flynn v Wilson and then just Wilson. While I find this talk that we are a shoe in for a deep playoff run quite silly and a trifle honkglorious, I feel we will be drafting in a similar position to this year. Average. We’re still growing. But we will be within striking distance of Barkley. Give me Barkley v Wilson and Flynn’s outrigjt release
What makes Flynn different from Barkley in talent level? Personally to me there is no difference. They’re both great technically and average physically and athletically. I don’t want Barkley, because of his lack of physical tools, since that lessens his upside. I want Logan Thomas or Tyler Wilson if Flynn doesn’t work out. There is no difference between Flynn and Barkley.
Barkley at 22 years old is roughly equivalent to Flynn at 27 years old in terms of strength and offensive understanding. Flynn is likely ahead in understanding NFL defenses and how to beat them, because Barkley does not faced remotely as complex defenses and also because Barkley must spend about half of his time in class and studying for graduation.
Either way, Barkley is far ahead of where Brady was at this stage of development, both mentally and physically. So there’s that too… In baseball, if you have to choose between a 22 yo who is batting .300 and a 27 yo who is batting .300, it’s absolutely a no brainer.
I’m talking about upside. Even if Barkley reaches his absolute upside, it won’t be much more than Flynn is today or a hasselbeck, because of his lack of physical tools. If you don’t have a great arm your upside is lessened. That is why I would rather have a Logan Thomas or Tyler Wilson, because they have more upside.
Also, the costs of getting Barkley are much higher at where Barkley is drafted and I don’t want a guy that won’t be an absolute beast like a Newton or Stafford at that point. I just see Barkley as Hasselbeck 2.0 or Flynn 2.0 and is severely overrated and I don’t think his absolute upside is much, much better than Flynn’s and if you can’t justify that he is that much better, I don’t believe you can trade up or make that pick at that spot.
There will be other QBs coming out next year that may be in within our draft range. I like Geno Smith a lot, and he is probably about the 6th ranked QB at this point. Maybe he will be higher by next year.
I can’t see any of our QBs having an elite season, simply because it will be their rookie season with Seattle. Without having an elite season (I’ll call that 11 wins or more) then I don’t think they will have nailed down the position well enough that we wouldnt’ want to draft another QB.
I agree with that. We will have many more options this year than last year, which will be good. The thing is we don’t know if those options will be good or if we will need any of them. This season will decide a lot and we will just have to wait and see.
Pete & John have done a great job of totally rebuilding this team in 2+ years. The Seahawks now just need two things more to go from 7-9 to the playoffs:
– with very good QB play (Flynn?), they can make it to 10-6; or with pro bowl QB play (Wilson?), they can make it to 12-4. T-Jack is a 9-7 guy.
– and IF they have better injury luck than the past couple of years. In both years the OL has been wiped out. I really want to see what a healthy Okung can do; and want to see the rest of the guys, Moffitt, Unger, Giacomini and Carpenter (when he returns mid-season) stay on the field and form as a unit. A healthy Sidney Rice wouldn’t hurt either.
I don’t get it, Flynn did extremely well in his two starts (no clue how he did in preseason games), why are we ready to write him off just because we have wilson. Green Bay didn’t write off Farve because they had Rogers (1st round pick) for how many years? I think whomever wins at camp starts, and if it’s Flynn then fantastic and if it’s Russell, good deal. I realise we are all high on our new toys, but really, we just took flynn out of the wrapper and have yet to even try him out.
I agree, and find it very amusing. If Flynn plays at a pro bowl level, he’s the guy moving forward, period. It doesn’t matter if he lacks certain “physical tools” PC likes, whatever those are.
And a 2nd to rational thought…
It’s not just here either. It seems most Seahawks fans generally have low expectations for Flynn. I think it is terribly unfair too, considering his performances when given the opportunity to play. PC likes competition: Ok, well Flynn’s already beaten a #2 pick for the backup job and holds some Packer records in just two starts. I know h won’t do that every game, but hell GB has had some pretty damn good (will be 3 HoF, when Favre gets inducted) QB’s and none of them had a game better than our own Matt Flynn. I really don’t get the consternation, he’s a college winner with great leadership, work ethic, and competitiveness. Add that package of intagibles to the accuracy and athleticism he has and what the hell can’t he do? Oh ya, he can’t throw 70 yards… Better bring in JaMarcus Russell, after all it worked for LSU (oh wait, that’s right Flynn was the LSU QB that won a championship). Give the guy a chance, even if he struggles out of the gate.
Besides, how is that we forget how horrible the other Matt from GB was his first year? What if we had dumped him after one year and drafted some rookie? Flynn hasn’t even taken a snap and we’re projecting him a failure. At least Hass got to play badly before we called for Dilfer (and won). Thank god for his weak achilles (sorry Trent).
I for one couldn’t be happier about our QB situation – both the new guys are awesome leaders with athleticism, smarts, experience in big games, and expierence in offenses like we run here. Portis might be something, might not. Jackson is a good backup, but hopefully gets unseated by Wilson. Hopefully, Russell can hold that clipboard with pride while Flynn picks apart defenses.
Also it’s the same people that love Barkley, that degrade Flynn, when Barkley doesn’t have the physical tools, either and in my view they are equal in every other aspect. There is no viable reason that Barkley can succeed, while Flynn can’t, unless it’s just hating or bias or preconceived notions playing a part in these evaluations. Some of the things said are just laughable.
There are differences between Flynn and Barkley. Even with a perceived equality in physical attributes, Barkley is younger and still in college. Barkley is also not a Seahawk. Flynn is older, and although has had limited starts so far, has been around the NFL for a few years.
So if Flynn = Barkley, then Flynn is only equal on the basis of nearing his upside while Barkley has yet to step into the NFL and is still growing at the college level. I would suggest that makes Barkley a potential bigger upside then Flynn, but ultimately its not relevant because he isn’t a Seahawk.
Barkley and Flynn are very different players on a technical level. And that’s why one will be a first round pick and potential #1 pick, and why the other was a 7th rounder.
How are they different? Personally, I see both as great technically and scouts make mistakes. Is it the same reason Jamarcus Russell was 1st overall and Brady was a 6th round pick? Or Ryan Leaf 1st overall and Tony Romo was undrafted? You can’t look at Flynn as a 7th round pick anymore and you have to evaluate Flynn as an nfl player. I know you like barkley, but he has a chance to fail and he is not perfect.
Ryan Leaf was 2nd overall, I made a mistake, but it doesn’t change the overall point.
Flynn has started two games and not proven anything yet, which is why he’s in Seattle – to have that opportunity to prove something. I’m not saying Barkley is perfect, but his accuracy, decision making, arm strength (not great, but still better than Flynn’s), ability at his age to go 1,2,3 then back to option 1, he’s more mobile in the pocket and knows how to buy time and throws on an intermediate level have a lot more ideal zip and offer very little opportunity to give away easy picks. The point about being R1 v R7 is to single out why two physically similar QB’s can be graded much differently – not that R1 QB’s always succeed and R7 QB’s don’t. I’m not saying Flynn is going to succeed/fail, but the Seahawks are taking no risk in employing Flynn and giving him the chance that virtually every other team with a QB need didn’t want to give him.
How many games has Barkley started in the nfl? Flynn may have started two games, but that is two more than Barkley. I don’t know what you are seeing in Flynn, but Flynn has pretty good decision making, accuracy, and ability to go throw progressions as well. The arm strength is debatable, but neither of them have the arm strength of Stafford or Newton, which lessens their upside. You can get thought the technical aspect, which has happened to Flynn, but you can’t get thought physical tools. Also, since I believe the upside is not as great with Barkley and he is a Matt Ryan or Matt Hasselbeck, then I don’t believe that is worth a top ten pick. The lack of physical tools will make Barkley play perfect technically to compensate for the physical tools in the nfl. Barkley is probably better than flynn, but I don’t think the margin is as big as some people make it and if you are making barkley your qbotf, then the margin better be big. I think Logan Thomas and Tyler Wilson have more upside than Barkley and I would rather take a chance on those guys by developing them behind Flynn, because the reward and upside with those guys is much bigger than you will ever get from Barkley at his highest point and his max upside. I don’t see the reward from Barkley that you do as worth the cost.
taught*, i don’t know how I spelled that wrong.
You’re missing the point on starts, Hawkfan. Starts are irrelevant in the comparison because one guy is still in college and will probably have two starts in week 2 of his NFL career. The debate here based on starts is only that Flynn hasn’t proven anything in the NFL yet. It’s nothing to do with Barkley.
I’ve graded Barkley higher in the areas listed above, which is why I see one as a potential #1 overall pick (as do many others) and another as a former 7th rounder who still needs to prove he warrants consideration as a full time starter. You disagree. We’ll just see how it plays out.
I’ve done a little complaining about that too. We are paying Flynn at least 10 million over the next two years, we really should give him a shot. We owe ourselves that much. As for those who say that we should have a competition between Flynn and Wilson – why stop there? Next year will have even stronger QBs coming out, probably 4-6 good ones. If you are committed to competition then you have to choose one and keep the competition going next year.
Greatest needs are that we haven’t identified a second star wide receiver. It is traditional when picking a new Qb that you also get a high round receiver. We have only picked one second round receiver in the last three drafts. Basically we have 3 good receivers at this time. Williams and obomanu and the rest have to prove themselves this season.
The other area of concern is our injury prone offensive line. At least PC is finding a few late round fill ins for them.
I am not worried about the defense. They got a lot of backups waiting for a turn.
$10m for two years is cheap. It’s average starter money in a QB driven league. They’ll see who emerges on the field, the money won’t dictate the decision. The players will gravitate to the winner in the open QB competition, it will be decisive and the team will be much improved. Early reports say Flynn looks like a young Hasselback on the field in camp.
With Jason Jones on a one year contract, I think the 3-tech position has to be a priority as well. A good 3-tech is fairly important to a 4-3 defense if you want to consistently dominate. Penetration up the middle pretty much puts a 4-3 defense over the top. Depending on where they pick, I think a dominant 3-tech will be something the team looks for in the draft. If none of these WRs step up, WR might be another priority position. If we’re still having injury problems along our O-line, that will be a priority again.
I don’t think given the current resources invested in the QB position they go into next year with QB in mind unless all of them show nothing. Pete understands developing a QB takes time. I think they will give Flynn and Wilson time to develop before focusing on QB again, though Pete and John will likely be gone if these two candidates fail to develop given a 5 year contract. So I don’t think a move up for a QB or trading up for Barkley is in the plan. They will sink or swim with Flynn and Wilson and this era will take off or end with one of these guys at QB.
I think Pete will commit to a QB fairly early. He’ll bring in Wilson first and truly let him compete for a starting job. The competition will be fairly strong at the mini-camps. But it will heat up in training camp and the preseason. My bet at the moment is that Tarvaris is gone fairly early in training camp. And Flynn and Wilson will be battling from there on out. Wilson seems too good to sit behind Tarvaris.
Isn’t that what they drafted Jaye Howard for? To develop behind Jones as a three-tech? Personally, I don’t think we have any drastic needs and if we go best player available in any position that makes sense ( no safeties, etc.), we will be fine.
Agreed. Howard looks (on paper) like he’s got a good chance to a play the 3-tech well. I love what they did for the pass-rush. Two fast as hell LB’s will help also.
4th round pass rushing D-tackle? I think they will look for better unless Howard really does well. A pass rushing D-tackle is one of the hardest positions to find. Very hard to find outside the first round. I think Pete wants his own Warren Sapp. That may be viewed as a priority next year. But we won’t know what we need for sure until this season ends.
Isn’t that where the Bengals drafted Geno Atkins, who is now an elite pass rushing d-tackle? I just hate when people look at where people are drafted, instead of the talent the players have. If Howard has the talent to succeed, then he will succeed no matter where he was drafted. This sounds like the Sherman hate, because he wasn’t drafted in the 1st, “like Jimmy Smith”.
I don’t recall any Sherman hate.
Early reports are that the D lineman look fantastic coming into camp in great shape. If the D comes together in a big way this year, I doubt Jones will want to leave, he’ll re-up.
And just to add to the discussion: Did anyone know that Darrell Bevell is a former University of Wisconsin QB of some repute? He still holds a few Badger records. From what I understand the Badgers offense is somewhat akin to what Bevell runs. I imagine Bevell must have been watching Russell Wilson a lot longer than either John or Pete. He must have had a healthy amount of input on the pick. No wonder people some people felt Seattle would grab Russell Wilson. Our OC knew the kid and they are from the same alma mater. I thought it was an interesting connection and I hope someone manages to get a Darrell Bevell interview with his take on Russell Wilson.
While Bevell’s affinity may have helped, Schneider said Wilson was one of the 3 best prospects he scouted last year, i.e. out of everybody he looked at. He may have been #3 on their real draft board and Irvin may have been #1. With that statement I don’t think it would have mattered even if the rest of the organization disagreed with Schneider, which they clearly did not. The way they described the “discussion” that would have ensued had Tannehill been there at #12 shows that they organization had mixed opinions on Tannehil. There is no evidence that they had mixed opinions on Wilson.
How did our OC know the kid? Wilson showed up at Wisconsin a month before the season started, and before his senior year he was at NC State. Wilson’s arrival at Wisconsin coincided with the start of the NFL season, and certainly Bevell was more interested in getting an offense up and running than he was in getting to know the QB at his alma mater. Do you really think Bevell has any more insight into the kid than Schneider and PC? I would hope that Bevell spends his time during football season planning the offense, not scouting players. I would also hope that he spends his offseason further refining his playbook for the possible Tarvaris and Flynn variations of the offense, working in plays for our young/inexperienced WRs, and finding ways to compensate for the loss of Gallery, Carlson and the late starts for the injured OL players.
I agree with Simmons that Bevell does follow and probably has good connections with his alma mater. He probably watched every game and had a solid knowledge of who Wilson was outside of any scouting duties. But it doesn’t matter when Schneider has already found Wilson in a big way. Bevell’s opinion would have only added to the desire to draft him.
Most former players who stay in football tend to have a good relationship with their college teams. Bevell was a Badger of some repute. I guess he led them to a Rose Bowl is well-remembered by the Badger faithful.
I’m not sure that we can consider that the Hawk’s have filled all of our need position’s just yet. None of our new pick-up’s via draft or free agency have yet to play for the Hawks. I still think that we need a speedy break-away RB that can catch the ball as well. We could use a back-up FB. Who’s our back-up Center? Will our TE’s be a go to option this year and be a threat receiving the ball? It will interesting to see how the new and returning LB’s will do. How will our OL do and who will it be? Can they stay healthy all year this time around. How will the WR’s do and can we have a go to deep threat for the whole season and who will it be? Yes we drafted some player’s to fill need’s, b ut it’s still not proven that our need’s have ben filled. I hope that our QB situation work’s out as we have 4 of them on the roster now ( I believe). Can Rice & Williams have good year’s at WR and Baldwin repeat what he did last year. Can Lynch repeat and have another year like last year. I’m alway’s hoping for the best…
What team has a back up fb? lol. With the roster spots as few as they are, you can’t waste them on unnecessary positions. If it becomes a drastic need, we can move Miller or Turbin. Also, all the other needs you laid out are things we have to wait and see for and allmost all of them are back up positions and you don’t draft a back up rb or c in the first round. So unless somebody completely bombs, which is possible, I think we’re going bpa.
Sounds to me like you need to study the roster a bit.
What do you mean? Did we have any back up fbs last year? We only had Robinson. Lynch, Forsett, Washington and Robinson were our backs last year. The players we have on our squad right now mean nothing. We will have Lynch, Turbin, and Washington at rb next year and Robinson at fb next year. No back up fbs, just like last year or any year. It would be like keeping two kickers. lol. But if there is something I’m missing tell me.
The backup FB is Lumpkin, if he makes the team which is unlikely but possible.
The backup C right now is Jean-Pierre, followed by developmental player Brent Osborne, the Harvard guy. This actually is an issue because it is a contract year for Unger. Personally, I’d rather extend him than wait till after the season. It’s a position you don’t want to risk having as a need and if this line comes together this year, you don’t want to lose Unger right when they are getting really good.
Hey Rob,
I started following your blog in the weeks leading up to the 2011 draft and have been reading the posts on a regular basis ever since. Great stuff…thanks for putting it out there for us to enjoy.
I don’t envy whoever gets the “starting” QB role in the first pre-season game. Unless the guy plays lights out, the boo birds are going to be calling for his rapid replacement. Suppose TJack gets the start, with two new QB faces on the bench, after the first interception he throws, the fans are going to be anxious to see what Flynn/Wilson can bring to the party. If they then bring in Flynn, guys like the Jarhead are going to see instant confirmation of their doubts about how “weak” his arm is the first time he underthrows a receiver. Then they bring in Flynn and one of his passes is batted down …. What then? Portis?
The sad truth is that IMO it’s going to take some time to see what we’ve got. Are the fans going to give the team the time that is needed to let the competition at QB play out? Is a clear-cut winner going to emerge from the competition at QB? Eventually. But, in the meantime, the biggest “need” for the Seahawks (and their fans) is patience. The front office first has to identify the QBOTF, then the team has to buy-in to the guy, then the fans have to get behind him, then the results have to start showing up in the win column. This might happen sooner than I think, but in my experience, it might take the whole season or even longer.
The fans actually support Flynn. They had a poll at the seattle times where a few thousand voted and 90% of the people wanted Flynn as the starter. Very, very few people want Jackson to be the starter, so if he is the guy startiing, people are going to be pissed, unless he plays great. Everybody has already seen how mediocre he is and there is no reason to waste another season with him if you have other options. Starting Jackson, when you have other great options is unacceptable and if Jackson plays like he did last year and the seahawks go 7-9 or even worse, with the hard schedule, I hope Carroll is fired. You can’t give somebody like Flynn a 19 million contract and everybody in the league supporting the move and play a back up on most teams, in Jackson. If Wilson or Portis are actually ready and supplant Flynn, then I am actually fine with that, because it means we have potential at the qb position, which is what you want. I wouldn’t even mind if FLynn/ Wilson play bad, because they have potential, which Jackson does not, which would make them fun to watch. I just hate Jackson as a qb and it disgusts me greatly to watch him play and I would rather see playmaking with interceptions, which is what Flynn is, unlike Jackson who doesn’t throw interceptions, but doesn’t make plays either. He is extremely boring and disgusting to watch. He does not have any of the mental attributes a qb needs to have.
I would only be mad if Jackson played because he is a mentally slow qb at making reads and that is not something you can improve. I feel Jackson has very little potential after spending all these years in the league and if it were me, I would cut him right now and go with Flynn, Wilson, and Portis, because I feel they all have more talent and potential than Jackson and it would be a waste of a roster spot to use it on Jackson and to have to place Portis on the practice squad, where he would be taken. I will never get behind Jackson, but I will support Flynn/Wilson/Portis. The funny thing is Jackson and Portis both came into the league as projects and I’ve seen more mental football talent ( making reads, etc.) from Portis, than I have ever seen from Jackson. Portis’ only mistake was the innacuracy, which could have been nerves, like he said, or something else, but if he gets that right, he will already be a better qb than Jackson. Jackson is a lost cause, which we need to get rid of.
No way TJack wins this fight for no other reason than his skills in critical areas (reading defenses, working through in-play progressions) are not as good as Flynns or Wilsons. He’s a good competitor and a good football player but the truth will show in who deserves to start at QB in what happens on the field in the practices and pre-season games, the team will see it and the fans will see it.
I am sure Pete and John want to develop ‘their guy’. That is why they are so excited about Wilson. They got him for a minimum investment. They probably don’t care who wins the competition as long as they have three guys on the roster that could start if called upon. Too often in the past and injury forces a QB to the locker room and there is no one in waiting to pick up the mantle and carry on. Now, for the first time in years we have some depth at the position.
JS said Wilson was one of the top 3 guys he scouted last year, period. He also said they would not have been happy with their draft if they had missed Irvin or Wilson. They are extremely happy to have Wilson and they have high hopes for his future.
Chill my brother. There’s a saying in the world of recovery, ” progress not perfection”. Not that perfection isn’t the eventual goal. But we don’t need to put a rope around our neck if we don’t obtain it with one move. Personally I really like our QB position. I wasn’t saying that last year. Progress!
The only areas of need that I can see for next year are a “big” wide receiver to replace Mike Williams and a LB to replace Hill. I’m sure we will be on the lookout for a quick scat back P/K returner as well. All this talk about QBs will sort itself out by September.
My one hope it that Carrol is comfortable enough with Flynn/Wilson combo that he can trade Jackson for a 3-4 round pick to a team in need. Having extra ammo to move up to get the BPA at whatever position we target seems to be easier then in the past.
I see toomer replacing Hill in the future or even Malcolm Smith depending on the alignment of lbs. KJ, Wagner, Toomer, and Smith are guys with great potential and it will be a great lb rotation, with maybe an addition or two for depth, which would be good, but not necessary. I also see Durham or Lockette replacing BMW and we have guys wit good potential in our receiving core, but as we know potential is just that, until they prove themselves, which they need to do. I agree on the scat back, because Washington is replaceable.
Also nobody would trade a 3-4 for Jackson. lol. You would have to be dumber than rocks to trade a 3-4 for him. You would get a 6-7 if lucky and more likely, nothing. If they want to get rid of him , they need to release him. That would be the best way to go. Let Jackson find his own team, save a roster spot for Portis and save some money.
I’m with you on the LB position…
Not so much on the WR position…
Currently no one on the roster can replace BMW. Our passing game was broken last year because our QB play was well below average. The WCO requires timing, so does a receiver like BMW. If Flynn and Wilson play with timing and anticipation (which they have shown elsewhere) a guy like BMW becomes a dangerous weapon in the WCO (see 2010). Neither Durham or Lockette are physical recievers – both are big fast guys. The closest we have to a BMW replacement is Cam Morrah.
Scat backs – not interested. I’d rather keep Lynch and Turbin beating down opponents. Turbin pass blocks well and catches very well. Let Tate and Baldwin to catch the short/screen passes and return kicks.
The scat back would replace Washington not Lynch and Turbin, it would be a change of pace. Also BMW does not have the ability to create separation and both Flynn and Wilson have thrown to guys that create separation in their previous systems. BMW was good with Hass because Hass would throw it up to him and he would catch it, this also created more of a chance for interceptions, which were high for Hass. If we use BMW in the same way for qbs with deficiencies like Flynn (poor arm strength) and Wilson (height), it will be cause for concern and interceptions may rise.
The thing is I just don’t see BMW as a guy that can create separation enough to be a consistently good wr in this league. For example, even with Hass, he was shut down easily by great cbs, because they knew his tendencies and they knew he wouldn’t run past them. All the great passing teams all have guys that can create separation well enough to create mismatches. I mean look at the Packers and how they helped Flynn. Nelson would create such big windows, that even though some of Flynn’s throws were inaccurate he was still able to catch those poor passes. If that was BMW, they would all have been picks. If you have a qb with poor arm strength, you need to create giant windows to not have picks. Jackson had the arm strength, but for whatever reason he was afraid to use it.
Durham and Lockette are big guys that have the potential to create separation, which will greaten their impact. This is why I feel that BMW is unnecessary on this roster and we instead need to get guys like Rice who can get separation, which is who most of our wrs are like. I think BMW might not even be on the roster opening day, because Lockette and Durham will step up along with Rice to create a great receiving core. Getting a guy like BMW won’t help, because guys like him who can’t create separation don’t succeed in the nfl. Maybe we can use BMW at tight end, but right now to me, BMW’s great year looks like a fluke and not something you can count on.
It all comes back to timing – BMW gets plenty of initial seperation on his routes (however he is slow, so it cannot be maintained very long) – the ball has to be thown with timing to take advantage of that. His arm length and body size further make him “open” when covered as long as the QB anticipates where BMW is going to be. 2010 Hass had less arm strength than either Flynn or Wilson do, so let’s not overstate Flynn’s arm strength “deficiencies”. Besides, Flynn throws with exceptional anticipation and timing. You made my point for me regarding Nelson, sure he’s more open than BMW will be, but Flynn trusts his receivers and tries to throw it anyway. He will be able to do that with BMW as well.
Durham has done nothing at any level – so until he shows actual potential, count me skeptical. Lockette creates seperation by running really fast straight upfield – we have no idea if he can even run an in route, a slant, or beat a press corner… jury’s out, but he sure can run.
I am not saying BMW is perfect, far from it. He loses interest when not very involved, he gives up on routes if he thinks the ball is going elsewhere and he can be jammed by exceptionally physical corners (Tillman comes to mind). I am saying he is a unique weapon at WR that will be utilized better by our two new QBs; one we cannot replace with the players currently on the roster.
At the end of the day, I can already tell we’re not going to agree. That’s cool.
@Jake
If flynn tries to pass to BMW the same way he passes to Nelson, he will get picked quite a few times like Hasselbeck was. Flynn likes to take risks and if you take risks with BMW you will have a chance to get picked. I actually think Flynn’s accuracy is overrated and his receivers like Nelson made him look really good, because they created huge windows for Flynn to throw into. BMW won’t do that. Also, Flynn does have good timing, but he needs to have that to throw before his receivers get into their breaks and since BMW is slow, Flynn will have to wait for BMW to get into breaks, which will lead to sacks with our poor o-line. Separation for your receivers allows for mistakes from you qb and since we don’t have a perfect qb in flynn, we will need to help him as much as we can and guys like Durham and Lockette have much more upside than BMW.
There are few if any guys that can succeed in the nfl without separation and it is an unnecessary burden to find ways to use BMW. BMW was great in 2010 when we had no good receivers, but I doubt that we need him any more and I feel that giving guys like Durham and Lockette a chance will have a bigger reward than using BMW and will also allow us to see whether we need to draft a receiver next year.
I like T-Jack, but I doubt he has any trade value. Maybe, maybe, if he looks good in the preseason and another team has some injuries at QB, the Seahawks might be able to flip him for a late rounder. But I’d put the odds of that happening south of likely.
If TJack was cut right now, h’e’d probably get signed as a backup somewhere. By the end of camp, that probably only happens if some team has had a slew of injuries which could happen at any point during the season. He does not have trade value while Josh Portis might be tradable right now for a 7th round pick or higher if two teams wanted him; that value goes up if he looks good in pre-season.
I agree that BMW probably won’t make the roster. I think Durham and Lockett do. Size and speed do matter. I think Wilson could use Lockett better cuz he has the arm to really turn the rockett loose. BMW is also coming off a broken ankle? Was Durhams injury a broken bone? or torn something?
Obo is kinda like TJack. Great skills, but always seems to drop the big pass. He is another guy that I doubt we can get any value for, and will just be released.
I think Tate will have a great year, Baldwin as well, Praying Rice gets it together, but holding my breath cuz that guy is made from glass bigtime.
So a serious WR could be a great round 1 pick, especially if Rice breaks again, in fact, I;m sure that will be the pick if Rice is gone….
No possible way to get any pick for a QB who in extended opportunities couldn’t score in 4th quarter and wasn’t good progressing through reads. Portis would have higher trade value (probably a 7th) than TJack right now.
I think you’ve incorrectly identified responses and good practices with possible root causes of the quarterback position.
Continuous competition will never be part of the problem, not at quarterback, not at any position. There is a much larger problem with complacency that leads to lack of effort that leads to even very talented teams underachieving and losing critical games that end a season.
When a player brought in doesn’t demonstrate that they have out-competed the other guys and done well with a role, there will be greater emphasis at finding other options and hopefully incremental improvement. That is to say that when a position isn’t working, you have to keep trying others until the incremental improvements surpass the expected level of performance. But even then in PC’s methodology, there will be additional competition and this is how it should be.
Specifically, even if TJack had lit the world on fire last year and made the pro bowl or led the team deep into the playoffs with timely 4th quarter scoring drives, they still should have brought in Flynn and Wilson. And even if Flynn looks like a young Hasselback this year and improves the team’s performance, there should be an open competition at QB next year.
While I do agree with you that there is a risk of a good candidate at a position not having enough time to demonstrate their capabilities, this was not the case with TJack. He did improve last year, and given an opportunity to start 16 games this year, there would also be some improvement this year I am sure. But consensus is that Flynn will win this job hands down and provide a much better performance at starting QB this year. Of course, this still needs to be demonstrated on the field and Flynn will have a better year and have greater respect from his teammates when he overcomes this early challenge. In the medium term, Flynn will need to weather an even stronger challenge from a rookie with higher capabilities and expectations coming in than Flynn had as a 7th round draft choice afterthought.
But again, even if the QB position seems set this year in ways we haven’t seen since Hasselback, I will applaud the drafting of another talented QB in next years draft as well. I could see where maybe lesser organizations could fail using these methods, but I don’t see this as a great risk given this regime’s ability to find and develop talent.
This is not feasible. If we had Peyton Manning at 25 years old right now, lighting the world on fire, you can’t waste a pick on a qb that would never start. You would need to pick guys that would help him and help the team more than a back up qb. When you make decisions on who to draft, you have to look at how you can improve the team the most. If you are top ten at qb and bottom ten at pass rusher, even if you have a qb higher on your board than the pass rusher, you have to take the pass rusher, because the pass rusher will improve your team more. The rise from top ten to top 5 is much smaller than bottom 10 to top 10.
Your philosophy works best for a perfect team with no weaknesses to deal with. Since there are no perfect teams and every team can improve some area, you are always working to improve. Drafting a qb when you already have a great one in their prime (your scenario), makes no sense, because the team would be improved a lot more by drafting someone who will help the team more than a qb, who would be at most a small upgrade. It would be like the colts playing bad next year and Luck progressing well for a rookie, but they have a chance to draft Barkley and they rate Barkley slightly higher than Luck, it would be crazy to take him, because if Luck were even close to Barkley’s talent, in their evaluation, then they would be able to improve their roster a lot more with somebody that could help Luck on the field. The argument they would have would be is Luck and Barkley better or Luck and Robert Woods or somebody else? The team would be much, much better with Luck and the weapon, than having one qb sitting on the bench.
That is why your scenario with Tjack would only work for a team with no needs and no team in the nfl would replace a pro bowl level qb. Good thing is Jackson will never be a pro bowl level qb, so we won’t have to worry about him. But, we will need to see how good Flynn and Wilson are and see if the upgrade from them to a draft pick is big enough for the team to pick a qb when they could be picking another player that would improve the team in another way. This is all an interesting debate.
1. Even a young Manning could get hurt on any given Sunday.
2. GB Packers had needs when they drafted Rodgers #25 in ’05.
3. San Diego traded 3rd string Whitehurst for a 3rd rounder and jumping up in 2nd round, Philly traded Kolb for a staring CB and a 2nd round pick. They were able to fill needs with these assets. Because teams will overpay for QBs in a QB driven league, they are very valuable commodities in addition to needs leaders for your own team. In addition to hopefully having a franchise guy as your starter and a future franchise guy as your backup, you want a toolsy high end guy as your 3rd string project, the kind of guy that will look better in pre-season games and mop up duties that all the guys on another team’s depth chart like Cleveland or Miami. You want them to come to you with a big offer.
4. Believe it or not, PC and JS have not yet cast a single draft choice for a “need” in the way they describe their drafts as having gone. They build their draft boards according to their values and select from the BPA available at their spots that they see helping the team. They feel very stongly about this and JS bristles at the suggestion that he would force a pick based on need. This was made very clear in recent interviews. I think their overall needs/goals (speed, athleticism, length) end up showing up as needs being filled because these things are so instrumental in their process but they are proud of the fact that they don’t draft needs.
5. Even though what I’ve described above is the methodology I agree with, it did not originate with me. This is pretty much a description of what they are doing whether you or I like it or not. Personally, I wish the other Seattle franchises were as effective as this new Seahawks regime.
err Rodgers was #24 in ’05, my bad.
The thing is the seahawks may not draft based fully on need, but they don’t draft fully on bpa either. They stated at the beginning of the offseason last year that they would improve their lines and that is exactly what they did, with Carpenter and Moffitt. They stated they would improve defensive speed and look for pass rushers and that is what they did with Irvin, Wagner, Toomer, etc. What you are suggesting would be like drafting Mark Barron if he was available, to sit behind Thomas and Chancellor. That is not feasible. Nobody would make the decision to draft a safety, when they already have two pro-bowlers at that position. Even if they feel Barron is a top 3 talent on their board of available talents, which they did, I highly doubt they would have taken him over Irvin. Irvin provides more value to this team, than Barron because he is something the seahawks don’t have right now.
This would also work next year, if for example Flynn becomes a probowler and barkley is available, instead of taking barkley I believe they would trade Barkley for a ransom like the rams did. If the rams went by your philosophy they would have taken griffin right there, but nobody goes full bpa. Its always bpa and need combined when you make a decision or else there would be the possibility of drafting the same position in consecutive years, even if you are set. Your example of Rodgers doesn’t work, because Favre was nearing the end of his career and he needed a replacement. If Flynn works out or your example of Jackson or we had a 25 year old Peyton, then we wouldn’t need a replacement, so it would be a complete waste of resources to waste a pick on somebody we wouldn’t use. If you want guys to trade for picks you draft those guys in later rounds or at most after the 1st, like the packers did with flynn to develop. If you have an opportunity at barkley next year, why don’t you just sell high like the rams did this year, because its not like you would get more or help your team if you took him, developed him, and traded him.
In the end it would not benefit you and the benefit would not be worth the cost, which is what you have to look at. If you have another reciever you like, it would be better to take him over a back up qb that you would get, because he would be able to help your team unlike the backup. This is why some do not like the Wilson pick, if the seahawks believe in flynn. If the seahawks do not believe in flynn, its a great move, but if they do it is a waste of a pick. Just like barkley would be if flynn or wilson work out.
Also, you can’t draft a back up to prevent an injury to your qb hurting the team. For example, Peyton has played every year until last year and if you took Barkley in Peyton’s second year he would have never gotten to play. It would have been a complete waste of a pick and you would benefit much more with somebody to help Peyton than compete with him. I realize we are not in that position at qb, but that is what your philosophy suggests to me.
They updrade all areas as an ongoing philosophy. They brought in a candidate for most improved in Deuce Letui for o-line this year, they brought in an athletic project in a DT-G transition, he could be a future starter as soon as this year depending on injuries. If you look across the board, they continue to try to improve every group on the team every year. Last year they got the equivalent of two 1st round high end CBs in Browner and Sherman, forgoing the need to use a high pick.
It’s funny you should mention Barron because he was on their short list. For example, if Kuechly and Irvin were gone, Barron would have been the 2012 1st round pick for the Seattle Seahawks. I’m not making that up, he would have been the pick.
If they picked Barron, how would they have used him? do you know? It may have been, but I don’t see how they would have picked a backup at 12. Also, kuechly and barron were gone before the seahawks picked, so if irvin were gone, they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to pick him and they would have had to draft someone else.
Also, when they improve the team, they aren’t improving the team in good areas, by forgetting to improve bad areas. For example, they weren’t going to draft an wide receiver this year when picking a pass rusher would improve the team more. They know where the needs are and they deal with them and know how to improve the team. Deuce Lutui, etc. are trials and can’t be called high expense moves like getting a qb in rd 1 after you already have a qb 1 you are comfortable with, like you are suggesting. Interesting debate.
He wouldn’t be a backup, he’d be a rotational player as he has more coverage skills than Chancellor, better run stopping skills that ET. In all likelihood our nickel package would have be 2 DBs and 3 safeties and the dime package would have been 3 DBs and 3 safeties.
Is that worth a first round pick? Would his impact be greater on the team than Irvin’s? I just don’t see the value.
It sounded like if Irvin had been gone in addition to Barron and Kuechly, they would have gone with Ingram but they had others they liked. Two names that did not come up on their short list were Coples and DeCastro, to my surprise. I think the emphasis that they put on running speed (i.e. 40 yard dash and other runs) probably dropped DeCastro a bit on their board. That and perhaps because he played RG in college and not LG but who knows?
@Belgaron
I believe they didn’t have DeCastro high is, because they feel comfortable with their high picks on the o-line and the investment is already fine on the o-line. We’ll see what happens, but adding any pass rusher in the 1st would improve the team more than adding DeCastro, when Cable has shown that he can mold average o-lineman into a satisfactory o-line, which is all we need.
The ‘Hawks play a lot of downs with extra DBs so Barron would have played a lot even if he wasn’t a “starting” safety. They asked Schneider specifically if drafting Barron would have meant moving Chancellor to LB and he said no.
Okung was a need – we had not starting quality LT after Jones’ retirement, but we were lucky he was a highly rated LT. Schneider basically said Carpenter was a need based pick; no offseason, and no player slated to start at RT. Pass rush was an absolute need, MLB was an absolute need, and we took Irvin and Wagner with the 1st and 2nd picks this year. So 4 top draft picks in the last 2 years were need-based. They are building the team to minimize drafting for need, but Schneider has no qualms with drafting for need.
Yes, while LT was a need, to hear them describe their process that was not the way they decided to draft Okung. From what I’ve gleaned from interviews and articles, I think they rate players numerically then have short lists at different spots in the draft. In the 2010 draft, Okung was on the short list that made sense at that spot but it doesn’t sound like they would have reached for him if they thought he wasn’t of value. I’ve heard that at one point they were thinking they could get Eric Berry at #6 then Trent Williams at #14 but then Williams value skyrocketed heading into the draft and Berry went higher as well. But looking back I don’t think they regret the outcome even with Okungs injuries–both could be pro bowlers this year.
They follow their board and don’t reach past better players for needs. But among the short list, they are happy to incrementally improve their roster in ways that make the most sense which might appear like they matched a need to a player, if that makes sense. Schneider says often that they strictly follow their board but I also believe that when they build their criteria for rating players, their needs might shape the value system again making it appear like the end results have them match players to needs.
Off the top of my head…
1. Our 1st round pick will be used on WR probably. IMO the most likely scenario is that Rice continues to be slowed by injuries, and neither Durham nor Tate play at a pro bowl level in his place. In that scenario WR has to be the pick.
2. Or it could be the other position that gets most injured this year: Let’s say Sherman goes down… our CB situation looks suddenly suspect. Let’s say Mebane goes down… our DT situation looks suspect with Branch attempting to man the 1-tech. Let’s say Okung goes down again and Carpenter doesn’t get back at all in 2012… our T situation would be dire.
The thing is its all about guys going down. If everybody stays healthy, then we have everything we need right now without any additions to be a super bowl contending team right away.
With a new QB that can throw the ball, there will be a real sorting out of the wide receivers this year. This will be a make or break year for a lot of the veteran receivers and for the young receivers with “Potential”. It all boils down to being able to run your routes, get open, and catch the ball. If they can do that then they will stick with the Hawks.
I do think we will be drafting for an elite wide receiver next year. Not sure how that will play out when I also think we will draft another Qb.
Depends on how the guys work out. Lockette and Durham have the potential to be elite guys. We’ll see.
In regards to what is the greatest remaining need for this team…
1. The emergence of talent at WR and TE in terms of performance and dependability. If not, WR could easily be the #1 pick next year. Even if Miller and or Rice have monster years and go back to the pro bowl, they still need more from the other guys.
2. Another pass rusher. Even if they want to and are able to bring back Chris Clemons next year and even if Bruce Irvin has a monster rookie year, they will still need essentially another guy of this type. They need depth and up-and-comers. They don’t ever want to be stuck with the cupboard bare in this area if they can avoid it. Hopefully they can continue to find talent where other teams aren’t looking in later rounds.
3. More ideal prototypes in backup/special teams roles. They need depth, flexibility, athleticism, and competition across the team.They need 2-3 guys capable of breaking out for TDs on returns. They need headhunters and open field blockers who make a big difference like McCoy and Robinson but they need younger up-and-coming guys as well. This is an area they focus on so hopefully they will see great players emerge this year.
4. Other needs may emerge depending on injuries (knock on wood), age, and disappearances (Mike Williams in 2011 for example).
It would be amazing to be drafting late in the first round next year and be looking at true best available who “comes to them” or allows them to move back and roll the dice on more mid to late round picks.
Overall, the team appears to be stronger than ever with as many as 21 guys having a shot at being designated as Pro Bowlers (even if they cancel the game) this year. If the QB play has improved, this will vastly improve the chances of the WRs and TEs of having better years. The D is cram packed with guys capable of breaking out this year, there is a potential for records at sacks and interceptions this year. There is even half a dozen guys who could have pro bowl years in special teams.
I agree with the pass rushers. Clemons might leave next year for a big contract and we need to get more pass rushers. I could see us getting two or even three pass rushers, because as we saw with the giants, you can never have enough pass rushers.
I am pulling for Russell Wilson to become a starter but also like the opportunity to go after Barkley. Next years draft will probably be spent finding a true no 1 receiver 6’3 and above. We would then probably address any holes in the OL and LB spots if not the CB spots. With the way we revamped the defense I am really looking forward to seeing how everything translates onto the field. I am looking forward to a new Marshawn Lynch jersey and a Wolf Grey (Russell Wilson) jersey once they become available. I can then sport them here in the UAE and back in the USA.
I am very surprised as well about the anti Matt Flynn sentiment. I attribute this to the ESPN’s coverage of the AFC/NFC East 74% of the time (22% Peyton), and hearing Miami management bad mouthing Flynn every chance they get just so they could save their jobs. All we are saying is give Flynn a chance.
Let’s be real about this, Barkley has a good shot at the National Championship, and it will be unlikely he’s not going to be a top 3 pick (if not one, congrats to LA Vikings for picking Matt Barkley).
If Seahawks have a shot at Barkley, we probably have more problems than we thought coming in.
People love being negative, but I don’t know why. Barkley is a good qb, but he has his problems as well. With his lack of physical tools, his potential is limited and I see him as another Flynn. If we draft a qb next year, we need to draft a guy like Thomas or Tyler Wilson that has a chance to be an elite level talent, not a Matt Ryan, which is what I see in Barkley.
Every team in the league decided Tom Brady didn’t have a chance to be an elite talent. Let’s not mistake similar physical characteristics for an ultimate comparison. There are big differences between Flynn and Barkley.
Brady has the tools, Barkley doesn’t. There is a giant difference between them. Barkley’s problems aren’t Brady’s and vice versa.
Yeah… I remember when the entire NFL didn’t think Brady had the tools. I suspect it’s going to be a long year of draft talk. Can’t wait to get 7-8 emails in one night every time Barkley throws a bad pass again.
Human beings have a bad tendency to ignore what they don’t know, as if it doesn’t exist. This is a massive epidemic in football analysis by fans because there is an entire unseen world on the football field that fans can’t see. It’s the defensive backfield. And don’t tell me you see it when you go to the game live because no one goes to game and ignores what’s happening with the ball while they watch the defensive backfield for very long. And no one can watch more than one pass pattern live. You need the All-22:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203716204577015903150731054.html
I don’t have the All-22, but I do have a strong awareness of what I don’t know about what’s going on with the passing game. From this perspective a whole different picture emerges. Clues from the guys with the All-22 take on a much bigger significance. From my perspective, Seahawks quarterbacks have looked bad lately because of deficiencies in the WR corps more than anything else.
The Seahawks have an abundance of 2-3-4 receivers who MIGHT reach 1-2 level, and basically no reliable 1-2s. Rice would be a 1 level, but he can’t stay on the field. (I define #1 WRs and those who can beat almost every CB in the NFL 9 times out of 10, 3-4s get blanketed by most #1 CBs but can beat nickel CBs most of the time).
If I’m right then you’ll see the team continue to pursue 1-2s as they have since Carroll was hired, especially once training camp gets underway and they make sure no one they have emerges at that level.
I agree with what JohnnyBgood is saying. Most posts I have read say that the improved QB situation will make our receivers better. I agree with them, but I also think it will mean a giant sorting out of our receivers because there won’t be any more excuses about the QB not hitting the receiver. We will truly see who can be elite and who won’t make the cut.
I am fully expecting BMW and Obamanu to be gone by next year. Half the WRs with “potential” will also be gone. Rice will be dependant on his health. Baldwin should stick. Golden Tate has to prove himself but should stick. Unless someone with “potential” starts catching the ball, we will be drafting in the high rounds for more receivers.
I especially liked what the Colts did this year picking two tight ends. We need to give the receiver position more emphasis, we have only picked one high round reciever in the last three years.
Pete and John do most of their damage in late rounds. It would be like complaining that we haven’t upgraded the cornerback position by taking a high round guy, when have made late rounders succeed for us. The wide receivers were hurt by the qb position last year and they will need to prove something next year, but guys like Durham and Lockette have a lot of potential and if they work out we won’t need receivers next year. Depth is all we need if the potential works out throughout the roster. We have guys with potential at every position and we will see how it works out this year.
PC has had a high success ratio in the late rounds. My hat is off to him As the team gets better, it should become harder to find late round picks that can replace our starters. Even this year we picked three late round DTs, that would have been easily replaced/upgraded by one Fletcher Cox.
Anyway – I don’t expect any of our late round receivers to ever perform as well as Blackmon or Floyd will perform. They will be lucky to even be on the team after we start really drafting for the receiver spot.
You can say that but Sherman was a top 10 cb in the nfl last year, by many metrics and is a future pro bowler, if they play the pro bowl. He is an elite talent in the mold of Patrick Peterson, without the return skills and would have been drafted in the top 10 if the draft was replayed. They drafted that guy in the 5th. Kam Chancellor is already a pro bowler and is one of the best young safeties in the league and they drafted him in the 5th. These guys are 1st round talents drafted in the 5th. If Lockette and Durham perform, they have just as much potential as any receiver in this draft including Blackmon. It just depends on whether they reach that potential. You can’t look at first round picks and say they are more likely to succeed, because with PC and JS, they have had more success with late rounders. That is for guys like Ruskell, who wouldn’t draft well in the first round anyway, but has more of a chance there. While PC and JS are here, it won’t matter whether we are picking in the first or 5th because they will find similar talents who will fit their scheme and that is why they are so successful finding late round talent. Look at talent level don’t look at draft positon with Pete and John. Our receivers have great talent and potential and they just have to prove what they have on the field. We’ll see what they have this year.
And there are the three WR and one TE we picked up in UDFA. Bargain basement here we come!!!
No doubt as fans we can’t see the entire field, nor understand how well a WR plays in any particular play or game.
At a high level, there are four major elements to a successful passing attack:
1 – the play of the QB
2 – the play of the offensive line, both in pass blocking and run blocking
3 – the play of the WR/TEs
4 – the effectiveness of the running game
Of those four areas, PC/JS chose to upgrade exactly one of them: the play of the QB.
They didn’t sign any WR/TE FAs; they didn’t draft any WR/TEs. PC said before the draft that the only unit that wouldn’t be seriously considered in the draft was the o-line.
They signed the second highest rated QB in FA; they spent a relatively high draft pick on arguably the third best QB in the draft.
It’s true that we might not understand the weaknesses of the team, by PC/JS do, and they have stated in no uncertain terms with their actions what it is, and it was the poor play at the QB position in 2011.
Or, they’re not done improving one or more of those areas. Fans always forget that they team is not always done making big acquisitions when the draft is done. Remember when they got Lynch?
I think they have an aversion to the high risk of high expectation college receivers and prefer to get guys who have already proven themselves in the NFL. We’ll soon see.
I notice that you don’t even list the incumbent starting QB as an option, after he went 7-7 last year with 2 rookies/a rash of injuries on the O line, no off-season, the #1 receiver going down, the #2 receiver playing like garbage, and he had a torn peck. Minus a few 4th quarter comebacks he didn’t have the confidence in his receivers to make, T-Jack played admirably and would probably improve on that record going into this season with time to prepare and a more seasoned/set supporting cast. I am just wondering when T-Jack contracted the bubonic plague? EVERYONE seems to hate him and I just don’t get it. While I do like the idea of having a more accurate QB in Flynn, I still thing Jackson is at least a viable option. And honestly, does anyone really think that Pete Carroll will make his decision based on Flynn’s salary? I keep hearing that and it is laughable. If I had to bet on who our starting QB will be, I would go Jackson right now, barring an unforeseen meltdown in his competing against Flynn.
My apologies, you do list him but it doesn’t sound like you really think it is an option, just like the other articles I have been reading on the subject.
I just feel when a team signs a QB in free agency and then drafts one in the third round, they probably see it as a position they want to upgrade.
They wanted to upgrade the competition at that position, that’s for sure!
Personally, I’d play Flynn at quarterback and Wilson at five-eighth.
Put them both on the field at once, and set Flynn behind the guard on the strong side, with Wilson set in the shotgun between guard and center on the weak side.
Either of them can pass, and Wilson can run as a conventional tailback, or flare out for screens and the like, or run a passing play after a lateral or a direct snap.
With two legitimate passers on the field, a whole new set of options open up …
Wilson did catch a TD pass last year I believe.
I need the Flynnn supporters to answer this:
If Flynn starts and is OK, but nothing special and the Hawks end up drafting around #15 again next year, what do you do? I’m assuming your answer is draft a QB in the first round.
If that’s the case, who starts in 2013? 1st rd qb right? So Wilson never gets his shot?
This is the core point of us “pro Wilson” fans. I don’t think any of us are saying that Wilson is 100% for sure the future, but rather It would be really nice to know what you have in Wilson before the 2013 draft.
And it would also be really good to know what we have in Flynn first. Wilson can sit a year and if Flynn doesn’t sparkle Wilson will win the job to begin 2013. If it’s still unsolved at the position then we think about QB in the 2014 draft.
That won’t work. Carroll will gone waaaaaay before that point. I think if Flynn wins the job and doesn’t work out this year, they will draft a first rounder next year with the available options and have Wilson and the 1st rounder have an all out competition, like this year, between the two guys to see who our next franchise qb will be.
Takes more than a year to find out what you really have. Most of the great offensive guys know stability at QB is the number one factor in building an offense. Guys that don’t know this, they don’t succeed very often. We have to commit to a QB candidate and build the offense around him. Not only is this hampering our development on offense, but it also damages Schneider and the FOs ability to draft. The reason we have done so well on defense is that Pete knows exactly what he wants. On offense we’re having trouble because who knows what they want or who will be playing QB from year to year. Hard to draft offensive players if you’re not sure what your QB is capable or who he even is going to be from year to year. They 100% have to get that position stabilized for NFL success.
Flynn will change your mind. Drafting Wilson was simply following the BPA philosophy. Both Flynn and Wilson can be franchise QBs. The idea of sticking with Tarvaris is stupid.
Agree. Drafting Wilson is only somewhat relevant. JS is going to be drafting and developing QBs as often as possible to turn them into higher round picks later like Green Bay and Philly do.It’s part of his philosophy.
Without really laying out the roster’s depth chart and projected starters and backups it’s hard to gauge where might be the weak link. Questions I have:
–Leroy Hill’s spot at WLB?
–Browner’s CB spot in the starting lineup? (I don’t think so)
–Right Tackle? Is it Breno, Carpenter, or neither, at least thinking long-term?
–TE2? Morrah can catch but not block. McCoy can block but not catch. Miller can do both but blocked way to much last year. How do we free up Miller to actually run routes?
–SE/FL – whichever Sidney Rice doesn’t play of the outside WR positions? I don’t want to see BMW starting, really. Will Durham step up?
–Left Guard is also somewhat unsettled. Is Deuce Lutui anything more than a stop-gap? Does Carp play there when he gets healthy?
–Who is our 3rd Safety?
–Who is our Slot-Corner?
That’s a great list of questions. I think they have high hopes for Browner playing even better this year. WR, LB, and TE would all be areas of need heading in to camp. I’m hoping some of the upside guys break through this year. It would be nice to see Durham, Morrah, and Malcolm Smith break out. John Nalbone could be a sleeper at TE as he could be a poor man’s Miller which would make a great TE2.
Oh, and I agree: unless you have an elite franchise QB you will always want for one. Few teams get to solve that puzzle right away, and many make due with less-popular options or unconventional methods of finding a consistent starter until they fall into an Andrew Luck or bomb a season badly enough to at least be in position to make a move to the top of the draft like the Redskins did. However, it’s also not very often a team moves out of position to land a franchise QB the way it happened this year with the Rams. I’m not holding my breath of having a top-5 pick anytime soon and am planning on living with Flynn, Wilson or similar starters with a great team around them.
The thing is if what people say about Wilson is true, then he can be that type of guys. Even some of his harshest critics have said that height is his major flaw and he would be a top 10 pick and maybe better than rg3 if he was 6’4”, so if he can overcome that issue he can be a top of the line qb in the mold of Drew Brees. We’ll just have to wait and see if he overcomes the deficiencies or if Flynn steps up to be a pro bowl level qb and the unquestioned starter.
Does anyone really believe that the FO targeted Flynn as “their guy” at the beginning of the off season? Seems to me that they knew they needed someone other than Jackson. The sense I got from the Flynn signing was that he was never slated to be the QBOTF, but rather a fill-in player until the team drafted “their guy” this year or next. He just happened to be the be the cheapest and most interesting option out there at that time. Essentially he was “good enough for now.”
I just don’t see Flynn being the answer. The fact that so few teams showed any interest in him and that the only real offer he received was a low money offer from seattle should tell us all something. the FO signed him out of necessity. They drafted Wilson out of desire.
Desire should win out if both players prove to be equal.
cysco
Flynn played two games in Green Bay and set team records. Give him some credit!!!! I get the feeling that the fans on the message boards are trying to scrape Flynn off their shoe.
There’s a lot of haters and Flynn or Wilson are going to have to prove them wrong.
I detest the word ‘haters’. Let’s not use it on here. People being sceptical about a guy whose free agent market was ice cold and has two NFL starts to his name is not ‘hate’. It’s not unreasonable to question whether he is the answer.