Some of the Seahawks’ best moves in the Carroll/Schneider have been opportunistic.
The Marshawn Lynch trade, when the league had determined he was too much of a problem child. Capitalising on Bennet and Avril’s unexpectedly cold free agent market. Seeing beyond a 5-10 frame and drafting a franchise quarterback in round three.
There have, of course, been some fairly expensive mistakes too as they’ve tried to make magic happen again.
I do think this is part of their DNA though. They try to see where the league is taking its eye off the ball and strike.
The latest example, as I touched on recently in my most recent mock draft article, could be Hendon Hooker.
Regulars to the blog will know I tempered a lot of the Hooker hype during the season. Unquestionably he played well in 2022 and he might’ve won the Heisman if it wasn’t for the ACL injury he suffered near the end of the season. He helped make Tennessee relevant for the first time in years — no mean feat.
I also think the Josh Heupel offense is brilliant at making life easy for the quarterback. Hooker had an incredible number of wide-open throws. Watch this highlight video and note how many times you hear the commentator say ‘wide open’ when he throws. It’s preposterous, really. He wasn’t asked to do anything challenging and he played in a system not too unlike the ones at Ohio State and Washington. It’s mass production with a lot of the heavy lifting being done at the sideline.
PFF tallies ‘big time throws’ — defined as ‘a pass with excellent ball location and timing, generally thrown further down the field and/or into a tighter window’. Hooker is credited with just two ‘big time’ throws in 2022.
He also benefitted from having two high draft picks to throw to (Jalin Hyatt & Cedric Tillman) and he had a good offensive line, including brilliant right tackle Darnell Wright. Not many quarterbacks are able to rely on their right tackle to shut down Will Anderson.
Even so, Hooker did his part in executing the system. He’s athletic and can move around to extend plays when needed. He doesn’t have a rocket arm but it’s in the ‘good enough’ category. He’s a player you at last carry some hope for at the next level.
Truth be told it’s not that impossible to imagine him coming in to the NFL and being able to spearhead a team in the way Jalen Hurts is doing. Anyone who watched Hurts in college probably didn’t point and say ‘this guy will be a Super Bowl QB one day’. He was benched by Alabama, transferred to Oklahoma and did pretty well for the Sooners — but nothing out of the ordinary.
Hurts was viewed as a late round pick until he performed well at the Senior Bowl, then went to the combine and showed off a better-than-expected arm. He also ran well (4.59 forty), jumped a 35-inch vertical and had nearly 10-inch hands. At 6-1 and 222lbs, he wasn’t too small for it to be a problem. A case was being built to take him seriously and the Eagles did — drafting him in round two.
It’s enabled the Eagles to save money at a very expensive position, building a team good enough to contend around Hurts. They may win a Championship next week as a consequence.
The Seahawks should be aiming to try and mimic this plan. Yet it seems inevitable they will instead invest considerably in Geno Smith to try and retain at least a middle-tier status within the league. They will hope they can improve other areas of the team via the draft. Provided they don’t lumber themselves with a challenging contract in 2024/2025 — that’s OK. If Smith can be their answer to Alex Smith in Kansas City, that’s ideal. Committing major resources though, or taking on masses of dead money down the line, would be problematic.
They’d also need a QB answer for the future. If they’re minded to go defense early, they’ll almost certainly want to draft a quarterback at some point. The class is depleted though, with the bulk of quarterback prospects staying in college or transferring to new teams.
Hooker would present a possible solution. He’d provide a chance to take a shot on a player to have ‘one in the chamber’ as John Schneider would say.
It would fit well with their opportunistic manner. Hooker’s stock is likely to be more impacted than some think by the injury. He might not be able to play much (if at all) in year one. He’s 25-years-old (his birthday is in January) and he’s already several months older than Jalen Hurts.
The combination of health, favourable scheme and age isn’t a great mix. Could he go in the late second like Hurts to a team able to stash a QB? Possibly — and maybe that’s the range where the Seahawks would consider him? I do think, though, there’s a chance he will last into round three or even the early part of round four. After all, if he’s a player who isn’t starting until he’s about 27 or 28-years-old, that tempers his stock considerably.
That’s where Seattle might believe they can strike. They bring back Smith and potentially Drew Lock. They redshirt Hooker for a year with the idea of him getting into the mix in 2024 as a competitor to start. Eventually he could be a cost-effective replacement for Smith that allows Seattle, sporting a better roster, to use their cap saving to put the finishing touches to some key areas.
There are some other reasons why this makes a degree of sense.
Unlike several other big name quarterbacks, Hooker didn’t benefit entirely from a constantly clean pocket and still succeeded:
Oregon — 4 sacks in 12 games (0.33 per game)
Georgia — 7 sacks in 13 games (0.54 per game)
Washington — 7 sacks in 12 games (0.58 per game)
Ohio State — 8 sacks in 12 games (0.67 per game)
Florida — 12 sacks in 12 games (1.00 per game)
Alabama — 20 sacks in 12 games (1.67 per game)
Tennessee — 23 sacks in 12 games (1.92 per game)
Kentucky — 42 sacks in 12 games (3.50 per game)
We know Pete Carroll places a strong emphasis on avoiding turnovers. Hooker, as I mentioned, had an obscene number of wide-open throws in 2022 and that likely is responsible for the number below. However, he did fair very well in terms of turnover worthy plays:
Dorian Thompson-Robinson — 19
CJ Stroud — 16
Drake Maye — 16
Max Duggan — 15
Will Levis — 13
Anthony Richardson — 13
Quinn Ewers — 12
Caleb Williams — 11
Bryce Young — 9
Bo Nix — 8
Michael Penix Jr — 8
Tanner McKee — 8
Hendon Hooker — 5
The other thing to mention is hand size. The whole NFL pays attention to this but the Seahawks noted it as a key factor in their Russell Wilson evaluation. He had 10 1/4 inch hands despite his lack of prototypical size. Hooker — who is 6-3 and 208lbs — has 10 1/2 inch hands.
It was interesting to hear last week that Hooker was allowed to attend the Senior Bowl. Typically injured or non-participating players are not invited. This only happened during the Covid year, when the likes of DeVonta Smith where allowed to be there. Given his Alabama connections and Heisman-winning season, it was also a bit of a coup to have him involved in any way at all.
This was different and Jim Nagy admitted they did it as a favour to Hooker, who had requested the chance to come to Mobile. Nagy spoke about his admiration for the player and who he was as a person. They wanted to let him have the chance to speak to teams and be part of the Senior Bowl experience.
It reflects well on Hooker’s character — something that will appeal to Seattle and all the other teams.
It only takes one other team to take him off the board and any plan to draft and stash him would fail. I do wonder, though, whether such a plan could appeal to the Seahawks. Draft for other areas of the team early, re-sign the quarterbacks on the roster, then draft Hooker later on as a player who won’t be any threat to Smith and/or Lock in 2023 but could emerge as a contender to start from 2024 or 2025.
I think it makes some sense. It’s just something to keep in mind.
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Two players we’ve been on top of throughout the college season and Steen a player I’ve had at guard in both of my horizontal boards
Avila, Wright , Lucas or Avila, Lucas , Jones sounds pretty good to me.
It’s certainly viable that one of the two RT’s could be BPA at 20
Agreed. Think the Steelers take Wright or Jones at 17 but one of them could still be there at 20.
The thing with the Steelers is their fans reckon they either need to go LT or replenish their defense (which is losing a few starters). So they might not be in the market for a RT in round one.
Avila at Center? Was he tried there during the Senior Bowl?
He was
Rob, not sure if this is the correct term, but do you ever do a vertical draft board, something that ranks the top players, one through fifty or one through one hundred?
I don’t Ian — I think those are pointless really
Big lists of players do good numbers on the internet but that’s not how the league does it. I prefer a horizontal board which breaks down players into ranges where I think they should be drafted
Understood, thanks…
Interesting question though Ian. People talk about the “Best Player Available” strategy but it’s usually qualified with positional value, team need, and where the talent drops off between groups of players in a position.
Is it??
If it was purely BPA, wouldn’t a vertical, single column ranking make sense?
Nice writeup Rob.
Like Hooker as a Day 4 option but still think that JS will want to come out of this draft with his QB of the future from the Russ trade gift pick at 5. The idea that he would pass on Stroud, Richardson or Levis and sign Geno to a $30 mil / yr + deal still seems like insanity to me and just prolongs the Seahawks decade of mediocrity.
+1
One more benefit the Seahawks could keep in their back pocket is the likely extra year of team control.
He will likely be NFI in 2023 like Darrell Taylor was his rookie season, meaning he would not get the four full accrued seasons needed on his rookie contract to be a UFA in 2027.
He would be an RFA and the Seahawks could tender him for a very reasonable price.
He could be the first 30-year-old to receive a tender 🙂
I’ll take oldest QB tendered over the oldest QB franchise tagged…
Good stuff Rob.
That said, please a QB with #5 John. I have thought all along and still do that Richardson will be there.
I would be thrilled with this
A question Rob since I didn’t watch much of Hooker this year…
We’ve heard John really liked both Allen and Mahomes and that was partly because of their mobility and partly because of arm strength.
How was the mobility aspect of his game prior to the injury?
If his arm is “good enough” but not great, I would expect John would want him to at least have well above average mobility.
He’s a good athlete
430 rushing yards in 2022, 620 rushing yards in 2021, 620 rushing yards in 2020
Nice! Thank you.
Brock Huard just name-dropped you Rob on the morning show. Mentioned your first 2 picks. He’s a fan of that plan.
It’s taken far too long but it’s all coming together for Rob and Brock draft talk…
Another show I’d love to see Rob on would be with the Bootlegger fellas. Not Seahawks specific but it would be entertaining to have them all talking shop on prospects
Rob I’ve really become intrigued by your idea to move Lucas inside. I hate moving players but at least it’s the same side.
Do you think Wright could work in that scenario?
Looking at Rob’s pre-senior bowl horizontal board there are a few ways we could go about this. Some of those guard prospects all lumped in the round-three bracket are round two or better now.
This is what Rob had at guard. There were no round one grades, no round two grades, and eight round three grades. They were:
Nick Broeker
Steve Avila
Peter Skoronski
Jordan McFadden
Nick Saldiveri
Cody Mauch
O’Cyrus Torrance
Broderick Jones.
Broeker, Avila, McFadden, and Sadiveri certainly helped their cause. Wayna Morris, graded in round four, and Tyler Steen, graded in round five, probably also helped their cause.
As for the tackles-to -be converted I wonder where Syracuse tackle Matt Bergeron will go. Rob had him as a third-round prospect just under Jaelyn Duncan. His only second-round prospect was Paris Johnson Jr. In the one-to-two range he had Darnell Wright and Dewand Jones. Clearly that has changed.
Wright and Jones are still in that range
The guards have changed up a bit
I will publish an update later this week
Rob, your description of Seattle as “opportunistic” is spot on. You have even seen JS move up to get players like Tyler Lockett or DK when they slipped a bit. Here are some other possible opportunities in the draft.
1. TEF: We are always attracted to the biggest stars at every position at this time of year but Abe Lucas was a perfect example of using your TEF formula to identify a value pick at OL. Will there be another similar player in 2023?
2. The Cornerbacks at the Senior Bowl really impressed. And there is quite a bit of buzz for several underclassmen. . I think it is very possible that Seattle has a top-50 grade on a CB who slips to Round 3. I loved your Josh Downs pick in your mock. If he slips to the back part of Round 2 he would be an amazing pick for both need and value.
4. Seattle needs a NT. All the mock drafts are focusing on the top guys but Seattle has found contributors like Poona Ford and Brian Mone much later.
5. Austin Blythe was a 7th-round pick and played guard before moving to center. Seattle needs to upgrade at center but might not need to use one of their top 5 picks for this position. The Senior Bowl has done a really cool thing by giving some fringe tackle prospects the opportunity to get reps at center.
I hope we get something much better at DT than Ford and Mone, and these guys are hard to find in general, so looking for them in the later rounds isn’t realistic. And I would really really love someone who’s played a lot of snaps at C. I’m still not over Creed Humphrey.
It is going to take some time for all of us to get over Creed Humphrey. I was shouting for him at my draft party when he was surprisingly available for Seattle and shook my head in disappointment when they picked Dee Eskridge. At least they didn’t make the same mistake last year with Abe Lucas…
You know PCJS love their athletic freaks and Mazi Smith is expected to test REALLY well. He might be in play early for Seattle if they see him as more than a run-stuffer. My point was simply that a run-stuffing NT for base and 2-gap sets is a need for Seattle’s front 7 rebuild and you can potentially find a starter for that role later.
I am assuming Hooker is out of the combine due to injury – taking a shot at an older rookie with a significant injury and no real way to evaluate him prior to the draft- doesn’t seem like Christmas. G Smith = A Smith and H Hooker = Mahomes is not fair to assess. If we get shut out at #5 on a QB or just do no want to go in that direction because of the newly minted Saint Geno – than Rob is right this could be a draft hail mary for the Hawks in 3-4 years.
Don’t forget the comment about the offense, under Waldron, being QB friendly. Perhaps some of that was said posturing for negotiations with Geno, however, PCJS can, at times, shoot pretty darn straight. Question is, in their view, are they able to work with a QB that plays in one of the more “gimmicky,” mass production offenses, better than other systems? If so, Hooker may very well be a fit.
If you, in fact, have to have a QB on a rookie deal to win it all, then where’s the downside to hitting on an older QB that you can ride for 5 years and eventually move on from. Never thought we’d move Russ, and while his craptastic year in Denver absolutely helped ease the pain, perhaps turning over QBs more frequently will become more of the norm in the league. At least, something you need teams attempting more often, to try and hit on the rookie QB contract. Thoughts?
If the future is to roll with a most likely regressing-to-the-mean Geno Smith, an old rookie system quarterback red-shirting due to injury, and a horrendous defense that’s shown no sign of life in five years, things are looking rather bleak. And I hope the end of this duo come sooner rather than later. Fortunately/Unfortunately Pete is too good of a coach to not win enough games to stay mediocre, with a few one and done playoff appearances sprinkled in. Ugh. Unless they truly don’t think this QB class is special, it’s franchise QB or bust for me. At #5, there’s no excuse to get one of the four or move up to get “the” guy. It would boggle my mind if this were their plan.
I should proofread gooder:
At #5, there’s no excuse to NOT get one of the four horsemen, or move up to get “the” guy. It would boggle my mind if Hooker were their plan. I don’t mind taking a flier on him in round 3 or later, but the odds on him being a franchise QB is far far slimmer than the top 4 and that’s not something that should be counted on. I’m only fine with this if plan A falls to crap and Hooker falls into their lap. I’m even fine with drafting Hooker later if he keeps falling, in addition to one of the top quarterbacks, but this should not be plan A.
Wow, great posts. Never have seen anyone say Carroll is a good enough coach to get his team to mediocrity with a few one and done playoff appearances sprinkled in. Spot on.
I wohld be all for it in round 3 or later. Second round feels a bit rich.
God bless the ridiculous mocks from the PFN simulator.
Traded back three times from 5, ending at 16. Results for first two rounds were:
Carter
Anderson
Ika
Sanders
Gibbs
Skinner
Henley
Also gained TWO FIRSTS in 2024 and a third.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you absurdity.
I hadn’t messed around with the pfn mock sim in a while so I gave it a go yesterday and the first try Chicago picked Paris Johnson Jr with the 1st pick. I immediately cancelled and tried again. That time their first pick was Quinten Johnson. Never even got to the second pick on either sim.
I have no idea what happened to it. It used to be plausible enough to be fun
Truly. PFN simulator is a good UI but their autopicks are completely useless. Kind of a pointless exercise when you can draft guys like Keion White in the 6th round.
I always liked First-pick.com better. It wasn’t perfect but it seemed less absurd, but that site is down. It seems like someone should be able to set up a site with better trade criteria, updated rankings and more realistic team needs.
PFN trades indeed are often “unrealistic”, I tried multiple trades that were “somewhat more realistic” in this mock, I considered the implications of NOT taking a QB early and instead accepted several trades that would help to fill the other team holes that need upgrading & building the trenches., I selected mostly MY favorite players of those Rob has highlighted. SO, pretty much following Rob’s big board, here are the results. JS, the “wheeler-dealer” strikes again (ending up with 14 picks in 2023 +1-st & 2-nd picks in 2024.)
2/07/23, MY PFN Mock draft, w/multiple trades, & NO EARLY QB selected. (I’d be okay with this type of draft).
15. Brian Branch, S Alabama — Just DUMP the “peacock” & here is his do-it-all replacement. (Top-4 QB’S gone)
20. Darnell Wright, OT Tennessee — PC wants to run 1-st, this ++ guy helps with that a whole bunch.
37. Drew Sanders, LB Arkansas — A BIG need w/Brooks injury, a very versatile ++LB here.
45. Calijah Kancey, DT Pittsburgh — Interior rusher badly needed, + add to rotation & coach him up.
52. Adetomiwa Adebawore, EDGE Northwestern — Really liked his Sr. bowl game.
78. Byron Young, DT Alabama — A very Solid DL upgrade w/+upside
83. Luke Musgrave, TE Oregon State — A need at TE, filled with this pick.
116. Warren McClendon, OT Georgia — Convert to OG & swing OT (OL has been bad for way too long).
123. Zacch Pickens, DT South Carolina –More DL help (with 3 DT selections in this draft, DL is then set?)
153. Jayden Reed, WR/KR, Michigan St. –A go to, possession WR that I comp to D. Baldwin & also he’s a ++KR.
156. Dorian Thompson-Robinson, QB UCLA –QB developmental pick, maybe a future B/U?
198. Chris Rodriguez Jr., RB Kentucky — RB-2, more of a power runner, 3-rd down guy to complement K-9.
244. Darrell Luter Jr., CB South Alabama — CB to add to the mix & develop.
256. Anthony Johnson, CB Virginia — CB to add to the mix & develop, nice SR bowl game.
+++ 2024 GB 1st & +++ 2024 GB 2nd. ——>Can then be used in trade for a 2024 first round QB-OTF selection.
Good lord, what a grand slam of a draft this would be.
Great points. Also, JS has always talked about stashing QBs so this also fits his DNA.
Question: would it be possible or is there any chance the Seahawks would trade the 5th pick for a player and pick?
Assuming the Hawks do not like a QB at 5 (if they do great then get him) and the 3rd QB is available.
Example: swap pick 5 with Carolina for 9 and Derrick Brown. Any chance you see that happening or something like that?
There’s no way Carolina would do that
I wouldn’t want to take him before round 5. If our plan for quarterback after Russ is a career backup, a kid who couldn’t start on a bad Denver team, and then a kid who MAYBE will be ready to play in 2 years from now (injury and having to learn how to actually run an offense and not have be as simplified as possible for him) as a 27 year old, I would have no faith left in Pete and John.
I just can’t see them having any interest. They have been wanting dynamic. I think it will be first round or bust for them.
Not sure if you’ve seen but Jeff Simmons did an article where he states a league sources suggested a similar thing https://www.hawkblogger.com/2023/02/senior-bowl-intel-what-the-league-is-saying-about-the-seahawks.html
Well, unlike Mr. Simmons, I did make it to Senior Bowl practice. And my sources from deep inside the south-end lavatory have told me that the balloon we shot down did not come from China. It was the Patriots.
I read that and the line that stands out to me is this:
(Emphasis added)
I don’t think Jeff’s alone in having a hard time seeing where Geno goes if not staying in Seattle. And a significant part of that seems to be zero buzz around the League for Smith. Unlike, say Carr.
So if the “rumors” of Seattle and Geno being close to a large contract are true, they’re just negotiating against themselves. Like they have before. Like they haven’t learned anything.
I’m hopeful the rumors aren’t true though and nothing happens with Geno prior to the draft itself.
This is what I keep coming back to
Who is offering Geno big money?
Who?
🤷🏻♂️
Chafie Fields?
Maybe it’s like an auction. Pete is bidding against himself and he doesn’t know it. Only way it makes sense.
Raising that auction paddle is FUN!
This is why I can’t wrap my head around the franchise tag.
You only do that to keep him from negotiating with other teams.
There are quarterbacks more accomplished, younger, cheaper, and there are 4 choices at the top of the draft. And you simply cannot ignore one good season at age 32 after years of inactivity, no matter how many statistical graphs and charts you want to quote.
I think the combine will further lay the situation bare.
Can only hope, as with the Wilson trade denials, the media is getting this one wrong and Seattle’s true intentions are not known
I’m not confident though
Bridge contract = fine by me
$30m a year? Pass
I keep reading pieces on other QB-needy team blogs about addressing their situation.
Half of them Geno isn’t even mentioned as an option. The other half, he’s an afterthought.
“seattle’s true intentions are not known”
…100%
…feels like they are doing a LOT to “leak” their intentions to sign gino
…a little fishy, no?
Yup.
It’s not like Schneider isn’t hearing the same things from his people who are rubbing elbows with all the FO personnel and scouts from other organizations during the Senior Bowl.
Same goes for Geno. His agent isn’t sitting on his hands, praying for the phone to ring. He’s out and about, asking teams what’s what.
Counting down these last five weeks is going to be torture.
I think we are over thinking this or at least need a different angle.
On one hand no one seems stoked on geno for their team apparently.
On the other hand maybe there is no interest in Geno because it’s a foregone conclusion that Seattle will pay him handsomely. This team has shown at times some really over evaluations of its own players.
Dissly per example. Who was domg that contract for veteran presence. And run blocking. It felt and still feels after dissly having more or less the same year he always has like they just wanted to reward their guy.
Meyers. No real quibbles but this team just likes familiarity. And he’s good. And no one wants to look for a kickers.
If I had to guess it’s that fanbases know Carr is getting released sooner or later and they also “know,” Seattle is going to pay big money to a probowl player.
Diggs for 18 million going his 30’s.
Sigh
You didn’t exactly fill me with hope Peter with those Diggs and Dissly examples. Sadly, you’ve hit on a valid point imo.
For what purpose though?
To me this feels like an emotional situation where they want to reward a player they like vs treating this like a business as they should.
Interesting possibility.
However, I keep coming back to what you’ve said multiple times: Schneider and Carroll must have a plan for QB moving on from Wilson that didn’t originally include featuring Geno Smith significantly beyond 2022.
And I keep in mind Schneider’s history — coming from the Ron Wolf scouting/GM tree that puts a premium on the QB position, on repeatedly investing draft capital in that position. It was Schneider who saw the potential in Wilson. It was Schneider who wanted to move on from Wilson to Josh Allen.
And then there’s the 2023 draft class, one bereft of elite talent at any position, but at least solid at the top of the QB group. It’s not like there are fantastic options for Seattle that aren’t a QB. Jalen Carter? High risk. Will Anderson? I guess, but he’s not Nick Bosa or Myles Garrett. And he’s fairly redundant to the current roster.
If Seattle have the opportunity to draft one of Stroud, Levis or Richardson at 5, but do something else instead like sign Geno to a big contract prior to the draft and go defense, it’ll tell me in no uncertain terms who’s in charge. I’ll add Bryce Young to that list.
But…even if Carroll is still calling the ultimate shots, I’ll still be excited to see what happens.
When it comes to Hooker specifically, for me it depends mostly on when.
Round 2? Honestly, I’ll be pretty damn disappointed with the cost of the pick itself — the prospect taken (a 25 yo coming off an acl who probably won’t be capable of playing until 2024 at the earliest, let alone cmpetent) vs all the other prospects passed on who presumably would contribute in 2023.
Round 4? I’m fine. But then, R4 is where DTR’s value kicks in and I think I’d prefer him, even with his late season turnover regression.
Blitzy why do think Seattle hasn’t done a similar thing with qbs?
I know Green Bay is famous for it most notably because they’ve done it while having real stars and though most of the picks are late rounders they did stuff like draft Rodgers with Favre. And draft both brohm and love with second rounders with Rodgers.
Strange to me that Seattle hasn’t ever really gone down that path.
Maybe John always wanting to draft a QB and “put one in the barrel” is like Pete always saying they are going to fix the pass rush. Neither actually ever happens. Sigh.
Haha…..er…..actually those two things are painfully alike.
I like Hooker, but not before 4th. hopefully we can sign Geno to a fair 2 yr contract to fill position while developing a QB with LOTS of upside. If not this year, next.
Defense, IOL, RB depth,3rd reciever all needed more than a “maybe” QB at 5.
With no sure blue chip players other than Anderson, whic, h is not our top need,
I would prefer trade down. Lots of depth on DL , position hardly ever mentioned is LB which we need
greatly. Drew Sanders looks to be exactly what we need for the position.
Mazi Smith, Siaki Ika, Calijah Kancey all late 1st, 2nd rd availability.
Of course IOL and safety (hoping Adams can stay healthy) are all needs.
I am a BIG believer in heart and desire, talent is needed, but desire will maximize potential.
Go Hawks!
I really like Hooker, but the wide open throws do worry me.
Here are 2 of my late round candidates:
Clayton Tune: Houston
Jake Haener Fresno State (Go listen to the Paul Loeffler interview, Hour 3 Wyman and Bob Monday)
Loeffler broadcasts play by play for the Fresno State games. He was stumping for Haener. Him talking up Jake’s arm strength didn’t match what I saw watching the Senior Bowl. In fact, Haener’s long TD was an arm punt floater that begged to be picked off.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in what he says. It’s his job to promote all things Bulldogs football.
After watching Hookers highlight films, I see a whole bunch of wide-open completions. — mostly to WR-Jalin Hyatt, who gets “exceptional separation and runs good routes” and just gets wide open A LOT. Perhaps if the Seahawks
were to draft Hooker, they would do well to ALSO ADD WR Jalin Hyatt with one of their 2-nd round picks? WR3 is a need after all and the future QB/WR familiarity is a potentially exciting possibility that could help a great deal in Hooker’s future development. I have to say, after watching Hooker’s films, I’m reasonably impressed with his overall game & think he would be a pretty viable option (to red shirt him for a year) if none of the top 4 QB’s are available.
Also, Hyatt could very well be Lockett’s eventual replacement for when Hooker takes over the QB duties in year 2.
I was thinking the same thing, JimQ. The Hooker highlight reel looked more like a Jalin Hyatt highlight reel to me. He really stood out. Wouldn’t mind seeing him in lime and blue.
For curiosity sake, would you write the same article about Michael Penix had he declared? All season they seemed to be very similar draft profiles.
Penix Jr has a better arm but is streakier than Hooker
Yes he would’ve been an option too but obviously he doesn’t have an injury to temper any stock
Wondering if there’s a consensus Day 3 Center prospect to emerge after Senior Bowl
Someone not named John Michael Schmitz.
Cody Mauch?
Nick Broeker?
Nick Saldiveri?
Olusegun Oluwatimi?
I like Olu Olu but Cody Mauch seems to have become the media darling. With his positional versatily, I assume he is has bumped himself to the top of a lot of needy teams’ lists.
Mauch’s profile pick is hilarious.
Two missing front teeth, and he’s smiling broadly, like an NHL defenseman.
I loved it.
Olu Olu is on my list pending TEF. He is not a mauler in run blocking but he is considered particularly adept at picking up blitzes and adjusting calls at the line. That is a particularly important skill in Seattle’s scheme.
Skeptical about Mauch. He doesn’t have any experience and could very easily end up never being a center and playing guard like Quentin Meinerz who got similar media buzz as a center at the Senior Bowl a couple years ago and ended up being a Day 2 pick for Denver.
Watch us draft Olu Olu and Ade Ade.
And then they holo holo together all the time after practice
As long as they don’t get hokey and end up in the pokey, I don’t care what they do after practice.
How about the dude Rob pointed out earlier – Juice Scruggs from Penn State?
While you have the capital I would be open to trading up and getting your guy at #1, we have more ammo then Indy which most mocked for trade up. 3 out of the 4 teams in the Championship games this year had a QB on rookie deal. Our cap situation is not the greatest for 2 years then our books open when our rookie QB Will be in year 3 with 5th year control..Just a thought
The more I think about drafting Dawand Jones and moving Abe Lucas inside, the more I think that would be one of the few scenarios I’d feel comfortable drafting Bryce Young at 5.
Put him behind a line where his strong side is protected by Jones and Lucas and his blind side by Cross and Lewis, the only weak spot is up the middle.
Hence my question about a Day 3 C prospect to shore up that spot too. Or sign a quality FA like Garrett Bradbury.
But the more I think about Bryce Young, the more I think he goes to Houston at 2. They have a solid OL too. One of the better units in the League at not giving up sacks.
That would be a very tall oline for a small Bryce Young to have to see over.
It’s not like Bama has a small line. Young’s size concerns me, but he’s got everything else. Sort of the opposite of Richardson who has all the tools and just needs to put things together. Either at 5 is a win to me.
I agree with these points.
The superbowl oline weren’t exactly short.
Alabama has some big old dudes.
LZ checks in with a mock
https://www.nfl.com/news/lance-zierlein-2023-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-buccaneers-select-tom-brady-s-successor
5-Tyree
20-JMS
Okay, I was standing right behind this guy in the last row of the lower level at the 50-yard line. What did he see that I did not?
I understand that he is doing a mock with no trades, but if Will Levis and Anthony Richardson are there at #5 Carolina is going to be burning up our phones.
Looking at the various major media mocks, it looks like there is a lot of consensus on the top prospects and just a little shuffling based on a couple Senior Bowl headlines, trades or no trades, and which team the author pays attention to.
I’m guessing the next big shuffle will be after the combine and any Chicago/Arizona trades. I have no insight, but I just think that Arizona may luck into a SF/Lance style trade that they can’t pass up.
Three TE’s in the first 24 picks (not SEA). I wouldn’t hate the Hawks grabbing one pretty early but not at pick #20.
Feels like we have a line of sight on A. Richardson or W. Anderson at No. 5 (best case)
Or B. Young and J. Carter (worst case).
If all four QBs are gone, run to the podium for W. Anderson (or J. Carter).
If three QBs are gone, run to the podium for A. Richardson (or B. Young).
Thank you, Russell Wilson & Co.!
Beef up the trenches with 1.20 and 2.37 and get a couple weapons with 2.52 and 3.83, problem(s) solved.
Hmmm….
What are some other options at QB we’re not thinking of? Matt Corral or some other qb buried on a depth chart somewhere? Pete tried to do that twice early on.
Do we do what Washington did years ago and draft two qbs?
Maybe they also want a lot of smoke out there to hide their intentions. They need some leverage if they want to trade with Chicago. They hid their intention to draft Irvin years ago – studiously avoiding contact with him at the combine.
The year Washington did that they took the Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffith III #1 overall and there was a great group of quarterbacks at the Senior Bowl. This was my first time attending the game.
North: Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson, Kellen Moore.
South: Nick Foles, Ryan Lindley, Brandon Weedon.
Yeah. Yesterday on 710 Wyman was going on about how the Seahawks aren’t desperate for a QB like all these other teams.
I get Geno has a good chance to return but we don’t HAVE a QB on the roster. I hope we don’t act desperate but we hardly in an easy spot.
The QB discussion from 2022 to 2023 has been night and day solely because Geno played well. We went from folks talking up Malik Willis and Desmond Ridder as day 1/2 options to downplaying the current quality class. We went from folks bashing Pete to praising him as a QB guru.
In the same convo, Wyman was saying he wouldn’t pay Derek Carr (limiting other FA acquisition) when we could just start Lock and get the same production as Geno. Which is 1. downplaying what Geno accomplished due to his own talents and 2. But THEN why are we paying Geno if Lock can do the same for way less???
I think you have it right. Likely the discussions are much more wide ranging. I mean a world in which 3 QBs go in the top 4 and someone decides to pay Geno more than the Seahawks are willing is possible.
The best way to fix the defense in 2023 is not likely picking a defender at 5. It’s starting a cheap QB and adding defenders in quantity in the draft and quality in FA.
100%
Also shortening the game with the run game, as Pete used to do when we had Marshawn. Adding another RB to compliment Walker and some interior linemen always goes a long ways to masking a bad defense.
Or we could follow the Louis Riddick plan and just have a nice defensive draft like Kansas City!
That’s why they are in the Super Bowl don’t ya know?
I had a sneaking suspicion from the excerpts I really didn’t need to go back and listen to Riddick.
Just do a good draft! Sheesh, I don’t have the #s but if we get average output in year 1 from this draft class with 2 firsts and 2 seconds, it’ll be hard pressed to beat what the ‘22 class did. If drafting were easy the Seahawks would a won a lot more between 2013-2021.
Front 7 Rebuild: Seattle has one good young rotational DE under contract (Taylor), one good starting Nose Tackle under contract (Al Woods) who needs a young backup to spell him, one stud starting OLB under contract (Nwosu), and one young Edge/OLB under contract (Mafe) who looks more rotational than starter at this point in his career. Seattle has one young stud starting ILB under contract (Jordyn Brooks) who may not be able to start the season as he recovers from injury.
Shelby Harris another rotational DL under contract but his 2022 performance doesn’t match his 2023 cap hit so he is a potential cut. Brian Mone is a rotational Nose Tackle under contract but he may not play in 2023 due to injury so he is probably a salary cut/injury settlement candidate. Quentin Jefferson is a rotational 3-tech who provided a bit of pass rush at the end of the season but his poor run defense and questionable scheme fit make him a likely salary cut. DL Alton Robinson is an easy salary cut even though he doesn’t save much.
That leaves Seattle needing at least one starting 5-tech DE, one starting ILB, one starting OLB/Edge, two backup LBs, a backup NT, and a couple backup DL (maybe Myles Adam’s and Tyreke Smith).
That may take more than one off-season to fix but it seems certain that 2-3 of Seattle’s 5 Day 1/2 picks will be used on the front 7. Particularly given the comments from PCJS about the need to rebuild the front 7 in their postseason comments.
My question is of the Seahawks have so much talent on the front 7, then how come they play like crap as a team.?
I think that you are over valuing players because they play for the Seahawks. I hope that none of the 2022 Seahawks startimg front 7 is on the team in 2024 except maybe Nwosu.
I don’t think the Seahawks have a lot of front 7 talent. I agree with PCJS that an overhaul is needed. In fact, the front 7 needs so much work that I think it will certainly take more than one year.
No one remembers Poona Ford! Poor guy is going to get a complex.
As to why they play like crap it’s not a secret. They didn’t tackle well.
This year I’ll be that annoying fan that will for sure throw abit of a tantrum if a QB (in the scenario that one of the top 4 is there of course) is not taken at #5. I’ll tweet some angry words, yell at the clouds, call it an early night and hope that I am wrong.
I cannot for the life of me see any way that Seattle is one draft away from a Superbowl if they go bang out for Geno and his contract.
Taking either Levis or Richardson in round 1 then adding Jake Haener in rounds 5-7 would very much akin to what SF 49ers did by taking Trey Lance early then drafting Brock Purdy the following year.
I would be OK with this scenario.
I just checked the stats on Hooker for the last two years. The last two years at Tennessee Hooker had 58 TD passes and only five picks. With a completion percentage of 69%. Impressive. You can’t beat those numbers with a stick.
Milton, the backup quarterback, had nearly a thousand yards (nearly 2 more y/a than Hooker), 10 tds – 0 ints, a 204.3 qb rating, and beat Clemson in the Orange Bowl.
Now I don’t doubt that Hooker is a much better player than Milton and could be a franchise QB, but it’s really hard to evaluate and project a QB in this type of system.
As Rob said, it is an offense that is geared around getting your receivers wide open. If I remember right, he started watching Hooker’s tape because there were soooooo many receivers wide open. Trying to figure out why.
I am going to hope that all of the love that has been leaked for Geno is meant to throw off other teams looking to draft QB’s and increase the odds one that we want drops to us. If we telegraph that we are going to draft a QB, it increases the odds someone like the Oanthers jumps into the top 4.
Not that I am that convinced that this team would pull off that kind of disinformation move.
Dominos. I had this thought that more clarity about who picks a QB in the draft will come after one or two more “dominos” fall in the veteran QB marketplace. Could that “domino” be Derek Carr or Aaron Rodgers being dealt elsewhere? Lots of rumors floating and those two guys are going to end up with some QB needy team. Right now CAR, ATL, TB, Colts, WASH, LV, maybe GB, too, could be looking at those guys. Those moves will better define who does what in the draft. What if Baltimore decides to cut bait with Lamar Jackson? Admittedly remote, but they might offer to trade CHI for Justin Fields, and CHI might be extremely happy to draft their preferred QB at #1. Let’s hope JS/PC are patient in their negotiations with Geno…a lot can happen in the next several weeks.
Carr will be cut
Of course he will. But he will definitely end up somewhere else.
Exactly. That will take one potential selector off the draft board. Similarly Rodgers (if he plays at all or plus elsewhere) and probably Garropolo, too. Tepper (CAR) is impatient, he might want a veteran’s presence now or for a year or two; TB is an interesting destination for a veteran and pretty far removed from rationally trading up; Raiders and Rodgers seem like a good fit…just saying. Then you have ATL and NO…even the Texans might want JimmyG due to the Demo connection. Once one big domino falls, who knows the reaction across the league. Seahawks at #5 are in a great position to play the BPA or BPD (Best Available Deal). Like most everyone, I hope they’re patient and don’t negotiate against themselves with regard to Geno…
I don’t see how potentially trading for a Derek Carr or a washed-out Aaron Rodgers would preclude a team from drafting a quarterback
How did Aaron Rodgers react the last time Green Bay drafted a quarterback?
Have you seen Mean Girls?
Lol what a classic. Dude is such a diva.
Totally agree it doesn’t prevent a team from still drafting a QB, although – with all due respect – I do not think Rodgers is “washed-out”, nor is Carr ‘not’ a NFL quality starter. GB was arguably not all that good this past year. They have issues, especially with their FO. It’s not unreasonable to suggest they wasted AR’s best years with questionable draft picks and letting his #1 WR – Devontae Adams – go to the Raiders (without a bonafide replacement< I might add). Carr was poorly handled by Josh McDaniels and would be an instant improvement for several teams, including TN, NO, ATL, TB, Houston, WASH, NE, et al. Maybe even GB(…how ya like those apples?… Matt Damon, "Good Will Hunting" 1997. LOL.
Fair enough. I see Carr as a bridge much like Geno. A-a-ron has passed the point where I see him as a viable replacement, especially given his age, cap hit, and draft capital necessary to acquire him.
Is that Carson Palmer to Seattle deal still “imminent”?
I am looking at other options than paying Geno or drafting a QB at #5. What are your thoughts on going after Davis Mills if Houston goes QB at #2. Not sure how much you have to give up. If it takes a 2nd I would be out.
Houston wouldn’t be eager to jettison Mills. A young starter with actual experience on a rookie salary? Nah.
Yes to Mills….
I like the idea of taking a guy like Hendon Hooker later in the draft as a backup, and maybe you score a diamond. But no way I take him round 2 (like someone on ESPN did this week) and not with the intent of him becoming the starter (at age 27-28). I like him, and without the injury I’d be feeling sneaky about picking him. The age+injury just really sticks me.
I would also be very happy taking him late after picking a QB at 5 (pull a RGIII/Cousins move).
I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Lindsey Scott he attended a small school but nevertheless he threw 60 touchdown passes Last year that’s a ridiculous number but in 6th or 7th round might be worth a shot.
More reason to draft Levis or Richardson
https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/new-york-jets-should-avoid-top-2023-nfl-draft-prospects-will-levis-will-anderson-scouting-report
This is the same guy that had Malik Willis at #2 and Matt Corral at #3 in his last mock draft last year. Pure nonsense coming from Daniel Kelly. To say that Anderson is undraftable and he’d put Levis and Richardson in the 5th and 7th rounds is pure lunacy.
Actually, I don’t even understand his statement on Anderson. He grades him as a second rounder, but then says if he was a GM, Anderson wouldn’t even be on his draft board. Which is it?
So many of the national mock drafts are all over the place
Mocks are obviously mostly all over the place
But this year the mocks are more over the place-y than normal
Some absolute shockers out there putting players in R1 that have no business being there
One yesterday had Chicago trading down to #9 and taking..drumroll..Broderick Jones
I mean why wouldn’t you draft a tackle who looks down at his shoes when he makes contact?
I’m sorry I haven’t posted since 2016. But I can’t take this anymore. As a Seahawks fan all I’ve ever wanted is a chance to draft a quarterback like Richardson to have that level of a prospect at quarterback. I just cannot believe the fan base talking themselves out of this chance if or when he falls to number five. There is no guarantee on any Prospect not even Trevor Lawrence. There should be no trade down unless all four quarterbacks are taken it shouldn’t even be considered. You don’t pick Wilson or Jalen Carter instead of that potential franchise quarterback. This is not Jack Patera football we’re talking about where everything is all about how tricky the kicker is. I don’t even know if I can watch this team anymore if they pass on one of those four quarterbacks. You can analyze this thing to death but the fact is it’s the most important position in Pro Sports and seahawksville is obsessed with paying a guy who is 33. Unbelievable
I hear ya
I look forward to 2030 and Lord Snow’s next post excoriating Pete and the Seahawks for re-signing 40 year-old Geno Smith to a 3/$210m contract rather than use the 1/1 pick on Peyton Manning Jr.
Lol touche. I would suspect that 99% of the former posters from this site still read the articles and the comments. That’s a tribute to Rob who is still the best analyst in the blogosphere that I’ve ever read. I’m sure everyone here agrees. And also the sdb readers who post other than the trolls are probably the best group out there in the blogosphere. The content that Rob continually provides ensures that his regular readers are a different breed than the standard football site. As a retired guy I have plenty of time to peruse lots of football sites and nothing matches this one in the years I’ve been reading it. But as Rob shows us the occasional woke football trolls who post attacks on anyone who disagrees with them I just stopped posting anywhere on social media.
We will Rue the day if Rob ever decides to shut the site down and go on to other things. I’ve watched football since 1974 and I still learn things by reading this site and I still learn things by reading comments from the readers.
+1
I agree with this so much.
Adam on one of the podcasts said it great too. Obviously not the exact words, but you don’t trade your near-HOF QB, get a top 5 pick, and then draft a run-stuffing defensive lineman. Do something sexy!
Agree.
It could be argued the Seahawks already got their vegetables in the RW trade (a rookie LT, a rookie DE, DL Shelby Harris, TE Noah Fant, a backup QB). They’re in the clear if they want to really shoot the moon and take one of the top QBs to build around.
Yeah, i dont get the fans that want the seahawks to resign Geno $30mill/year. If you ask some fans if you think geno can win you a superbowl, they will say yes. Its crazy.
Even if the seahawks roster eventually get talented enough to carry Geno to a superbowl, it would take a few years to build. He will be in his mid 30’s.
This year is a great chance for the seahawks to draft a franchise qb in the top 5.
Last year seahawks fan were all wanting them to draft a qb at #9. Draft Willis, Pickett, Ridder.
This year, the qbs are way better, and they dont want the seahawks to draft a qb???
Now they give their reasoning of look at baker, zach wilson, san darnold, josh rosen as why drafting qb is a crapshoot.
There’s an element that will say ‘pay the man’ regardless of the situation. We saw it with Earl Thomas. Twitter was awash with aghast fans who couldn’t believe the Seahawks were going to make him play out the final year of his deal. I wrote an article detailing why the team were right to play it by ear, bide their time. It didn’t go down well. So much so, in fact, I got a call from Thomas’ agent David Mulugheta to debate, over the phone, why I was wrong for suggesting Thomas’ holdout wasn’t going to achieve anything and was, in my opinion, a mistake by the player.
Fans like Geno. Therefore they say ‘pay and keep Geno’. They’re not going on Over The Cap and studying cap space. They’re not watching draft prospects or the Senior Bowl. A lot of them just read a couple of well known mocks and base their views around that.
And if the Seahawks don’t ‘pay the man’ these same fans will criticise the team and will soon forget what they were saying online, just like all those who wanted to pay mega money to Earl Thomas.
You are right, Rob. Lots of fans just watch the games and are not as heavily invested (learning the cap structure of the NFL, watching draft prospect). I know some fans just watch the seahawks game only.
But the local media is feeding these fans some bad takes. 710 bump and stacy talking about the seahawks current defense as close. Bumpus saying they have some young rising talents that will improve. Also saying Clint Hurt will improve since this is his first year as DC. Just need interior DT. And linebacker since Jordan Brooks is injured. He is good with the safeties of Diggs and Neal.
When fans hear this, of course they want the seahawks to draft defense. Also, no one in the media talks about how Carter is a no show in the college final four. Do they even watch the games??
Fascinating. I know the Seahawks spend a lot of time negotiating through the media, but sometimes I poohpooh it a little. But if the agents are bored enough to pressure journalists outside the traditional beat I guess there’s quite a game being played…
They’re not going on Over The Cap and studying cap space. They’re not watching draft prospects or the Senior Bowl. A lot of them just read a couple of well known mocks and base their views around that.
This is so true. I have discussions with people online or in person that tell me how 30 or 40 mil won’t break the bank, or the tag is a good idea. I mention the cap situation and people tell me all of Russ’s money is off the books now so there’s tons of room to spend. I don’t know how people can argue so passionately about something they’ve spent such little time learning about. I was actually accused of being a Rob Staton deciple a little while back. It made me laugh that a part of the overall seahawks fan community that tends to have a different opinion on things gets treated like a cult or something. I might disagree with some things I hear here but everything is backed up with numbers or historical examples. I feel like a well informed fan at least.
Ignorance is bliss
Very well said Lord Snow
I tend to agree with you but I could see the argument if there was a dominate DL available. I’m definitely not sold on Jalen or Will but does JS see it that way too? I actually love the idea of signing Geno and drafting a QB. It keeps that chip on his shoulder which will hopefully keep him motivated after getting a big signing bonus.
But at what price? I think everyone is fine with this if Geno can be signed at $15m
I just can’t take it any more. Joe Fann suggests we could go after Lamar (half joking, I think). There are some rational fans saying we’d have to give up too much and he costs too much money. Some people in the responses, however, are saying that Geno is better than Lamar, so we’d be downgrading. The Geno kook-aid is being passed around by the barrel.
After watching the annual State of the Union speech. I wonder what a State of the Seahawks speech would sound like…
Does this help at all?
We’ll find out but I’m worried the price will go up and there will be teething problems
Helpful trick for anyone outside the Seattle/Washington area. If you have a VPN and can set your location, you can buy NFL gamepass from a foreign country and watch every game live. The price changes by area though and I’ve been using Singapore (southeast Asia) as my viewing location for years, as it’s the cheapest.
Some names
Winding up with Geno and Hendon Hooker is one of the bleakest outcomes I can possibly imagine from falling backwards into a freak top five pick in a draft year with four legitimately exciting quarterbacks. I know Rob’s just throwing out scenarios, but I’d be properly properly upset if this is how things played out.
This is where I’m at, too
I know it’s futile, but man I wish the Broncos had lost that final game to give us pick #3. Sure would have simplified our discussions and guaranteed us one of the top QBs without having to consider scenarios where they are off the board and we are forced to pivot to defense.
It will be worst if Hawks has an option to draft CJ or Levis or Richardson at #5 and they don’t.
I’m sure he’s a very talented athlete, but for me personally, I wouldn’t even draft Hooker with any pick. I doubt we are coming away from the draft with more than 1 QB, and to emerge from the Wilson saga with only a rookie QB who can’t read defenses or go through progressions, just had a major injury, and won’t see a field before age 27…. my god that would be tragic. At least give us a young and healthy player to have stupid Twitter debates about when Geno comes back down to earth next year.
I lean towards a Haener in the 5/6 round personally.
I’m really starting to come around to the idea that teams need to be always drafting qbs. Never resign one to a second contract unless they’re absolutely special, top tier talent. Mahomes, burrow, and Allen are probably the only I would include in this group right now. Maybe Herbert, it’s hard to diagnose what the hell has been going on with the chargers. As an example, I think the ravens will be smart to get a haul for Lamar. He’s really good, but if he couldn’t win playoff games on a rookie deal, what makes you think he will without the advantage of extra cap space. Teams can constantly build a squad and when the right qb comes along you have a chance at a special few years. Winning championships is the goal. Not being a perennial playoff team imo. These qb contracts are just getting nuts and I think teams have to start doing something different. I do see gms and coaches in the hot seat struggling to have the stones to trade a better than average qb though.
Excellent article and nice collection of replies.
I read them all and one thing was missing. While is saves a ton of money to have a QB on a rookie contract, it is even better if that QB is a 2nd or later draft pick. It is not as much of a difference as there is between a $30,000,000 QB and a high first round pick, but it is a significant ammount that may allow the team to add another free agent.
So, Hooker in the 4th is OK by me. I would rather take a QB at #5.
Hendon Hooker round 4 would be a dream scenario!
Hi Rob,
You say that Hooker is only credited with two big time throws in 2022. Right now I’m looking at PFF stats for Hooker and it says 17 big time throws in 2022 with a BTT% of 4.6.
Curious where you’re getting “two” from.
Are you looking at the wrong stat table?