Why the Seahawks could target Jordan Cameron

Jordan Cameron — who couldn’t look any more like a USC athlete if he tried

Two reports on Sunday suggested tight end Julius Thomas is close to agreeing terms with the Jaguars. Jason Cole says a deal is “just about done”, while Adam Caplan states the Jaguars are “planning” on adding Thomas to the roster. There’s no firm confirmation like the Ndamukong Suh-to-Miami reports, but it seems to be heading in that direction. Although Rob Rang appears to be countering some of the reports.

The Seahawks showed interest in Thomas during the season and according to Yahoo’s Charles Robinson were considered Jacksonville’s biggest competition for the player. So why is he seemingly choosing the Jags?

As you can see, Robinson Tweeted on Saturday that the Jags would miss out on the top three free agents on their target list. Suh is signing with the Dolphins, Randall Cobb is staying in Green Bay and DeMarco Murray will probably end up back in Dallas. They have to spend money in accordance with the new CBA. They have $68m in free cap space (the most in the NFL) and there are restrictions on minimum cash spend.

Someone was going to get a bucket-load of money from the Jaguars.

The best thing for Seattle’s pursuit of Thomas was for the Jaguars to lure Cobb and maybe another high profile free agent to Jacksonville. Instead it created a situation where the Jaguars were looking to pay big money — probably overpay — for one of the remaining big names.

If Thomas signs for the Jaguars people will scoff at the price tag. But remember this — if it wasn’t Thomas getting overpaid it was somebody else. They had to spend per the rules. Jacksonville isn’t a popular destination. Could you imagine having to dip through the second tier of free agents having to offer mega bucks just to get a meeting? That was a distinct possibility for the Jags. If they give Thomas a ridiculous contract, at least they’re paying for one of the top players on the market. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than offering Jermaine Gresham $8m a year (for example).

In a straight battle between the Seahawks and Jaguars, Thomas would have to weigh up salary versus playing for a contender. Let’s suggest the Seahawks were willing to pay $7-8m APY on a four year deal. If the contract he eventually signs is for $9-10m APY (in line with Gronkowski and Graham), you have a tough decision to make. When Robinson tweeted Sunday morning that the Jags “can pay more” — it was telling. You have to wonder if Jacksonville made sure they got this deal done with an even sweeter improved offer at some point today — taking Seattle out of the equation.

UPDATEJason La Canfora is suggesting he’ll sign a deal worth $10m APY. That’s a sign of the Jags being forced to do what it takes to get their man. The Seahawks can’t stretch that far.

If (when?) it’s revealed Thomas is a Jaguar, the Seahawks will have to look elsewhere. Having released Zach Miller, tight end is an even bigger hole than it was a few days ago. They need a seam-busting target who can move the chains and produce in the red zone. They don’t have a genuine touchdown maker at receiver or tight end. The attraction with Thomas, apart from his 4.64 speed at 250lbs, big hands and huge vertical, was the production — 24 touchdowns in 27 starts for Denver.

The draft will not provide many answers at tight end, even if it’s loaded at receiver. Maxx Williams will make a solid pro for somebody — but it seems unlikely to be the Seahawks. They’ve consistently gone after unique, difference making qualities early in the draft. Williams’ character, occasional flare and safe hands need to be applauded. Yet a 6-4, 249lbs tight end with 4.78 speed just doesn’t feel like a Seahawks move in round one (or the early second round if they trade back).

I’m not convinced Max Walford ticks the right boxes either — 4.79 speed at 6-4, 251lbs with a poor 30.5 vertical. Devin Funchess is the nearest thing in terms of size — but he’s a 4.70 runner at 232lbs. So he’s 20lbs lighter than your ideal move-TE and still significantly slower.

Missing out on Thomas could be seen as a blow. Although not everyone’s favorite target — he offered a genuine mismatch at the second level. There isn’t a tight end like that in this draft. Pairing Thomas with a highly selected receiver (rounds 1-3) could’ve given the offense a real shot in the arm.

So what now? They could turn to Cleveland’s Jordan Cameron to fill the void.

Like Thomas he won’t turn 27 until the summer (he’s in his prime). He actually bettered most of Thomas’ combine numbers — 4.53 forty, 1.53-split, 37.5 inch vertical. He also has the big hands (just under 10 inches) and similar size (6-5, 254lbs).

Ian Rapoport reported in October that the Seahawks asked about a trade for Cameron involving Percy Harvin. His profile on Rotoworld even claims Seattle made this move first — and when it was rejected they asked Denver about Thomas.

In 2013 he exploded onto the scene as one of the new brand of modern-TE’s with 917 yards and seven touchdowns. That’s in an offense led by Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell, by the way. Big things were expected of Cameron moving forward and the idea he’d even hit free agency seemed fanciful. Then the concussion problems set in. He missed six games in 2014. He’s had three concussions in the last two years in total. It’s an alarming number that will seriously put his career at risk.

This problem isn’t likely to go away — in fact it might get much worse. That’s probably why we haven’t heard anything about his free agency market this weekend, despite all the buzz surrounding Julius Thomas.

This could play into the Seahawks’ hands.

Cameron fits the physical prototype they probably want to add to the offense. His price tag could be significantly hit by the health concerns. Signing him to a shorter-term deal with minimal guarantees would make sense — kind of like a prove-it deal. That type of contract could also be attractive for the player. He gets a chance to prove he can stay healthy playing for a contender — and he’s young enough to max-out his market in a year or two’s time.

This is where the Seahawks have had success in free agency under Carroll/Schneider. The big splashes (Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Matt Flynn) didn’t justify the price tag. When they’ve looked for shorter term value (Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril) they’ve excelled.

Some would argue it’s simply a more attractive proposition to Thomas. You’re not making any long-term commitments and Thomas had injury concerns too. You won’t lose the 2016 third-round compensatory pick you’re likely to receive when Byron Maxwell eventually signs in Philadelphia for mega-money. You can also look at other options in free agency.

Can the Seahawks afford to be a little more pro-active in the pass-rush market if they sign Cameron instead? Perhaps. They’ll certainly have the money to make an attractive offer to a player such as Tramon Williams in Green Bay. They can consider re-signing James Carpenter if they wish. They’ll also have a little more freedom to sign Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner and J.R. Sweezy to longer term deals.

It might put more pressure on drafting a receiver early as a security blanket against Cameron’s concussion problems.

I’m going to do a piece on this after the initial wave of free agency. I’ve spent some time watching Breshad Perriman this weekend and earlier in the week I watched some more Jaelen Strong. I won’t give away any big details of my changing opinion on both, but it’s mostly positive on Perriman and slightly negative on Strong. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see the top three receivers off the board by pick #15 — and then a long wait for the next to be taken. Kansas City and a couple of other teams could change that thinking, but the Seahawks might get a shot at the #4 receiver in the draft (whoever it may be). Stranger things have happened. More on this in the week.

Cameron isn’t Thomas because the concussion issues are a separating factor. At the right price he’s still an option the Seahawks could consider and it would fill a big hole. Seattle needs a dynamic bigger pass-catcher for the offense.

If you’re still unconvinced the Seahawks want this type of player badly — look at their pursuit a year ago of Jermichael Finley, the moves for Thomas, Jordan and Coby Fleener during the season and today’s re-signing of Anthony McCoy on a one-year contract. The Seahawks appear determined to find an X-factor at tight end or at least a dynamic big target.

You also have to wonder if they’ll look at the trade market if Cameron isn’t seen as a viable option. Do they make another call to Tampa Bay to ask about Vincent Jackson? It’s something to consider.

Other free agency notes

Mike Garafolo is backing up a report by Jayson Braddock that Byron Maxwell is signing for the Eagles in a deal worth $50m over five years and $25m guaranteed. It’s no wonder the Seahawks balked at that price.

Adam Schefter is reporting Frank Gore will also sign with the Eagles. It’s the end of an era for the 49ers, who are said to be interested in Baltimore receiver Torry Smith. Getlin believes the Arizona Cardinals are trying to clear cap space to trade for Adrian Peterson.



  1. rowdy

    I just read a report saying the hawks are still trying to work something out with maxwell. Don’t know what they can do but apparently their trying.

    Rob, what’s your opinion of drafting waller and playing him as a mismatch/move TE.? I always looked at him in that role thinking he could grow into a outside wr in time. It’s not ideal but I think he fits that role better then any te prospect in the draft.

    • cha

      Josina AndersonVerified account
      I just got off the phone with CB Byron Maxwell. Maxwell told me directly, “I’m going to Philly.” #Eagles

      • rowdy

        That’s what I expected but thought it was weird when the contract was reported they were still interested

    • Rob Staton

      I do think he’s still growing into his body. Doesn’t look complete somehow out of pads, like he can add even more good weight. For that reason I wouldn’t rule it out. But I also think he’s raw enough that you really need to start his development ASAP in his rookie year. And given he already has almost identical physical tools to Vincent Jackson, I would rather try to work him into that type of player.

  2. AlaskaHawk

    I think we can live with the tight ends that are on the roster. McCoy may finally be healthy this season and Willson is okay. If you are worried about red zone issues the money and draft picks would be better spent on an offensive line that can consistently run the ball in the red zone for a touchdown. That is one of the reasons to have a running game, and we already have the most powerful running back in the league. So let’s get an offensive line that can get those extra running yards under any circumstances. And of course a few more wide receivers.

    • Steeeve

      We already have one of the best offensive lines in short yardage and in the red zone. Why spend money or draft capital to improve something that’s already a strength? Our red zone issues stem from a lack of weapons in the passing game, not the running game.

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      McCoy has torn 2 Achilles’ in 2 years. Hopefully he stays healthy, but his injury history shouldn’t inspire much confidence. I’m not sure SEA can live with the tight ends that are on the roster.

    • Rob Staton

      The reason the Seahawks don’t score many rushing touchdowns in the red zone is the other team can just stack in front and sell out to stop Marshawn Lynch. Spending even more picks on the offensive line is not a solution to that problem. You’re still getting a huge numbers mismatch up front (9 defenders vs seven at most blockers). No team or line is running well in that situation.

      If you have no red zone receiving threat teams will laugh it off and sell out to stop the run. There isn’t an offensive line in the league that excels facing constant stacked boxes and certainly none of them thrive in red zone offense when the opposition never respects your pass catching options.

      There’s a reason why the Seahawks are actively pursuing these types of TE’s.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Seems like the defensive playbook is to load the front line on all downs. Not only to stop the run but also puts more pass rushers at the line. Even if you think the Seahawks are good at run blocking, they aren’t at pass blocking, and they have a terrible time blocking 5-6 rushers. It has become common to play the Seahawks that way. And really if the offensive line was as good as others on here say , it wouldn’t matter, they could still run the ball.

        • AlaskaHawk

          Ps I think we should add a couple receivers too!

        • Rob Staton

          But again, the reason Wilson doesn’t have any time is because if they’re selling out for the run they’re also selling out for the pass. Nobody respects Seattle’s WR/TE’s. This is not a problem to be solved by simply pouring more resources into the OL. A rookie OT or OG will simply face the same problems.

      • redzone086

        My question is how Matthews was active but not used till the super bowl in this fashion? If it is what they need why did they not use him or 6ft 5 in Willson in this jump ball scenarios we all think are needed?

        • Jake

          Because Willson rarely holds onto the ball in those situations. He’s not good at the jump ball, at all. Look at the 2 point conversion hail mary… Everyone blames Clinton-Dix for not going up and knocking it down, but Willson didn’t go up for it either, he read the wind well and let it come down into his chest. Luckily the wind fooled Clinton-Dix and he was out of position to go up for it.

    • Colin

      You can’t rely on an average set of receiving targets year in and year out. We have to get touchdown makers.

      • Steele1324

        Agree. No touchdown makers, no X-factors, and you have a predictable vanilla offense that allows opponents to more easily scheme. Witness NE and the Super Bowl. I’m sick of it.

        • Jake

          Lynch is a pretty major X-factor, as is Russell Wilson. I would like a more dynamic receiving threat too, but I don’t think spending $9-$10 million on ONE receiver is a good use of resources in an offense designed to spread the ball around, and take shots deep. The re-investment in Lynch also gobbles up some of that cap room and demands he get even more of the offense than he got last year. The Seahawks won the past two Super Bowls without a dynamic WR/TE (okay, officially they lost the last one – but not because they lacked a playmaking TE/WR).

          • Rob Staton

            They didn’t take many deep shots at all last season.

            • Jake

              25% of Wilson’s passes went beyond 15 yards, so it is still a deep shot offense – even though the Seahawks the passing game looked conservative. 25% is good for 7th highest percentage of passes beyond 15 yards. Losing Tate was painful, it took a while for Wilson to gain trust in his replacements. I think we will see that number climb closer to 30%+ with or without an expensive new receiver. Its about trust in the receiver, he trusted Kearse and only Kearse last year in jump ball situations. Hopefully Norwood can stay healthy and do what he does best. Also, I would venture that Matthews has earned that trust after his SB performance.

              • Rob Staton

                Thrown beyond 15 yards? Or gained that many yards?

                I’m surprised people are willing to think this group of WR/TE’s is good enough.

                • Jake

                  Good enough? Well, two straight Super Bowls means they are in fact good enough. We’d all like improvement, but I don’t feel that spending $9M or more is necessary considering the other options. If A. Johnson will take $5 and we can spend the other $5 on a Sheard or CB like Cary Williams or Brandon Browner (if available) – we get two for one at a position of greater need. TE is fine, WR is weaker and so is CB.

    • mrpeapants

      I agree ak. all it takes is 1 yard.

  3. CHawk Talker Eric

    Any chance SEA resign Miller to a 1 or 2 year cheap deal?

    • arias

      If he doesn’t get a sniff elsewhere I’m sure the hawks would welcome him back with open arms at this point. They had to desperation-sign McCoy today they were so hard up. But the ball is entirely in Miller’s court on that one since he’s a free agent.

      • Drew

        A 1 year deal on on vet minimum is hardly a hard up desperation play. McCoy has been with Carroll his entire college and pro career. This is Pete giving McCoy another chance now that he’s healthy. It’s a high upside limited to virtual no risk. He has to compete for a roster spot like everyone else. If he stays healthy, then he can be very valuable depth.

        • Jake

          McCoy isn’t a factor in the TE search honestly. He could be released if the roster spot or few hundred thousand are needed to sign someone else. This was just smart, no risk in this signing.

  4. Volume 12

    I just had a feeling that JT would take the money and run so to speak. Can’t blame him.

    If Miami can get a CB, another rotational pass-rusher, and a steady presence at safety opposite Rashad Jones, that defense is going to nasty!

    Seems to me that Seattle really values TE Anthony McCoy.

    • arias

      Or at least they think enough of him to sign him as a measure of last resort. After two knee surgeries I’ve got to imagine that if McCoy turns out to be anything it will be the equivalent of hitting a hail mary at this point. That would be the best way for the FO to treat McCoy.

      • Jake

        Achilles, one injury to each achilles… not nearly as risky as multiple knee surgeries. He should fully regain all movement and explosion. He’s healthy enough to sign, so he’s healthy again. He isn’t a significant re-injury risk with the injuries he has had, so it helps with depth behind or completion for Willson.

  5. Ben

    I would love to grab a Cameron Erving with our 1st pick. The fact that he could play all over the line just seems so invaluable to me. Like how Unger made the switch from Guard to Center. Where would you rank Fisher and Erving Rob, in congruence to Unger’s effectiveness?

    • Rob Staton

      I like Erving and Fisher and would be open to taking either at #31 providing they can find a way to get Julius Thomas to Seattle. Erving for me can play G/C (not tackle, he struggled at LT in 2014) and Fisher G/RT. If they fail to land Thomas, however, I think you look at a Ty Sambrailo later on and focus on WR with the first pick.

      • Greg haugsven

        Erving would be great to start at left guard. Then eventually move to center. Great place to learn between unger and okung.

  6. bobbyk

    A combination of Luke Willson and oft-injured Anthony McCoy as a top-two TE duo is an absolute joke. There is a reason why we’re looking for a TE that is actually good. I don’t mind Willson as a #2 TE and McCoy at #3 if that’s what it comes down to, but it’s like our WR situation right now with Baldwin being the #1 guy… it doesn’t make Baldwin a bad WR, b/c he’s not (in fact he’s very good, imo), but it does mean our WR/TEs must suck if our top two options are Baldwin/Kearse.

    I hope we land Jordan Cameron at a somewhat reasonable price. I’d be quite fine with Willson behind Cameron. I would also like to see a guy like Blake Bell added later in the draft with any eye toward the future.

    • Steele1324

      Exactly, bobbyk. I just do not understand those who would even consider standing pat with this existing group of WRs and TEs. There are no threats in either group! Fine complementary guys worth having on a team, but enough. No more agonizing struggles, and persistent 3-and-out flameouts (that wear out our defense, which is depended to on save too many games).

      • Carl

        The Seahawks had the 7th best percentage of 3 and outs.
        17.14%, which was better than the Denver Broncos among others.

        • Jake

          Our offense overall is good.

          The passing game is generally efficient, very explosive, and occasionally inconsistent. This complements an absolutely EXCELLENT running game. The offensive skill players, other than Lynch are also all young. I think growth from within could help at WR and TE. Sure, shortcuts like JT and Vincent Jackson are attractive – but they’re also expensive. I hope the FO takes the long-view and realizes that saving $9M now could help re-sign Okung, Irvin, & Wagner down the road. Those are the guys who got us to two straight Super Bowls.

          There’s always room to improve, but our offense is not as terrible as everyone seems to think.

          • Rob Staton

            Theoretically the room is there to keep Wagner, Okung, Irvin and sign a Thomas (as one example). The cap will see one more significant rise either next year or the following year and eventually Lynch’s $8.5m and Mebane’s $5.5m are coming off the cap. Wilson’s contract has an impact, but you can make it work — as we’ve seen with all the moves Denver/New England have made in the last two years despite carrying massive QB contracts.

            • Jake

              Yes it can work, but what if Hill blows up – he’ll need to be extended. Simon could flourish as a starter, just like Maxwell did and it’d be nice to lock him down. Sheard, Wisniewski, a CB – all of them offer potential for upgrade at a position of need. We have no starting LG, we need another pass-rusher, we need competition for Simon & Burley. There are places to spend that money without dumping it all on one receiver. Also, even if no one’s signed. We could front-load Wilson’s or Wagner’s contract to eat up this year’s space it offers long-term flexibility.

  7. Volume 12

    An interesting guy who wasn’t at the combine is Auburn’s TE CJ Uzomah- 6’5, 262 lbs. Ran a 4.63 40 which would have been the 2nd best at the combine, his 9’10 broad jump would have been 4th, and his 19 reps on the bench press, and 31′ inch vertical would have been 9th.

    He’s raw, but was very under-utilized at Auburn. He’s versatile, a leader, great teammate by all accounts, articulate, clutch, and has a fantastic work ethic.

    Won’t be a high pick by any means, but might be a good option in the mid to late rounds.

  8. mrpeapants

    I like Cameron but his concussion history is very scary. the last thing this team needs is another injury concern. take m Williams in the second(after trading out of 1) and te is solved for a long time. I know he doesn’t have any really special traits(speed size etc),but to me his special quality is his consistency. blue collar guy who will always come through when asked to. we can get the big mismatch wr later. and really they don’t have to be that special either. just big. I wouldn’t mind reaching for waller or conley in the late 2. maybe not polished but they don’t have to be. go hawks

    • Rob Staton

      The thing is though Mr P I think the Seahawks are specifically looking for those special traits at this position more than any other. What they essentially need is someone who offers that mismatch with size/speed. A player who keeps a defense honest and provides that outstanding option down the seam and in the red zone. I don’t think the general all-round solidity of Williams is going to do that. As an example, I don’t think I’ve seen one play in any Minnesota game where he’s boxed off an opponent or just won a 1v1 through sheer size. A lot of his success comes in finding the soft spot in zone and then reacting.

      • mrpeapants

        you may be right, I would just hate to sign Cameron, see him get hurt and not play at all. 4th most on IR last year. talent in the trainers room on sunday doesn’t help the team. don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t hate the move but I would limit the expectations.

    • Bob Johnston

      The problem I see with young tight ends is that it takes a couple years for them to develop. Gronk is the only TE I know f that had a very good rookie year, nobody else stand out as far as I can remember. So if you’re drafting a TE you’ll need to keep in mind that it will most likely be a couple years before you’ll see the production – I think it makes a lot of sense to go FA at the position and get a guy who’s already experienced.

      The thing about a great TE is that they are a rare breed, if you have a difference maker at the position you have a huge advantage over 90% of the league. I love Cameron, maybe even over JT, I’d love to see him in Seattle.

    • CC

      I agree – the concussions are a big deal. We’ve already had FA who were oft injured. I’d be diasqpointed if we signed Cameron.

  9. Lou

    Rob, can’t wait on your write-up on Breshad Perriman vs. Jalen Strong. If DGB goes in the first round, then either Strong or Perriman should be there for the Seahawks.

    When Strong ran a 4.4 forty at the combine, I watched his highlight reel to try to get excited at the prospect of the Seahawks drafting him. His hands are great, but he just gets no separation. I think people are overvaluing Strong because of his fast time at the combine. The tape doesn’t lie. Strong is more of a Dwayne Bowe or Anquan Boldin type of receiver: sure handed, gets first downs, but can’t run by corners.

    Perriman on the other hand looks blazing fast on his highlight reel. (We’ll have to wait till his pro day for his forty time to confirm his speed.) With his combination of size, speed, and hops, he can tilt the field for the Seahawks and even force a safety over the top. I’m fine with the idea of not selecting Perriman if the Seahawks get Julius Thomas. With Thomas, the team can afford to focus on the oline or cornerback with their first pick. Then they can take McBride at the end of the second or top of the third.
    But if the Seahawks have to settle for Jordan Cameron, who, in my opinion, could be another concussion away from retirement, they have to get that field-tilting receiver with their first pick. And, judging from their highlight reels, that receiver isn’t Strong, its Perriman.

    • bobbyk

      I’m just scared of adding another receiver that can’t get separation (Strong). Wilson may be much better than Hasselbeck, but Strong would be a great choice if we still had Hasselbeck because he could throw those timing slants into tiny windows where only the WR could make a play (like he did with Mike Williams during his only good year in Seattle). While Wilson is a better QB all around, the selection of Strong would not be as good with him at QB in comparison to Hasselbeck.

      We need a burner on the outside whether we get a TE in FA or not. I’m more inclined to be on the Devin Smith bandwagon myself.

    • Rob Staton

      Some great points you make here Lou.

  10. Volume 12

    Nebraska WR Kenny Bell isn’t a huge target at all (6’1, 197 lbs.), but he’s a guy that just strikes me as a Seahawk wide receiver. We’ve seen that Seattle’s not afraid to target these types.

    Had a 4.37 hand held 40 time and 4.42 electronic 40 time. One of the highest SPARQ scores in this year’s receiver class.

    Strengths: Has the lower body explosion with a 10′ 9 broad jump, ridiculous 41.5′ vertical. Probably the best run blocker in this class, said he loves to block, and blocks downfield. He’s a technician with great footwork at the LOS. Gets his pads over his toes, drives off the line, defenders respect his deep speed, and he wins and moves corners without even touching them. Great hands, high points balls, and will go down and get passes, which to me, is one of the most underrated/least talked about aspects when it comes to evaluating receivers.

    Weaknesses: He does occasionally tip off his routes, and has to get stronger after only putting up 7 reps on the bench press, but he said he wants/knows he needs to improve that strength. Again doesn’t have great size.

    IMO he’s a guy that like Donte Moncrief and Martavis Bryant of last year, teams will look back and say ‘how’d we miss this guy?’

    • Lil'stink

      Seems like he could do what we ask of Kearse, only better. I wonder where he will go. Might be a good 4th rounder for us. I just want the draft to hurry up and get here already.

      • Volume 12

        Yeah, I think he could he be a mix of Kearse and P-Rich with Hines Ward blocking, and a Golden Tate type personality.

        His character is very ‘Seahawky.’ Aka Afro Thunder. He’s articulate, but out-spoken. I could definitely see him and RW growing together over the future.

        • Steele1324

          Love Kenny Bell.

  11. Greg haugsven

    I was thinking 2 years $10 million. You could have two million guaranteed. With a one million dollar signing bonus and 1 million base and per game roster bonus. Like you said, short term deal to get some money and he would still be 28 at the end of it to go back to Free Agency. Could work for both.

    • Greg haugsven

      There is the possibility that the Seahawks believe that Willson is there future at TE. Alot of WR/TE’s take off in there third year. That’s the year he’s about to enter. He has all the measureables, just has to put it together. Maybe 2015 is his year.

      • Turp

        Willson’s 55% catch rate is not the future. Sorry. He’s a win for a 5th round pick. That is it.

        • Volume 12

          If that catch rate percentage doesn’t drop, then I think you could say he’s not the future. But to write a guy off before his 3rd year would be a mistake.

          As a 5th round pick I’d assume he was seen as a guy that needed time to develop.

          • Greg haugsven

            most tight ends are mid round draft picks, he didn’t get much playing time behind Vance McDonald at rice. I agree with v12 to not right him off but he does need to do a better job at 50-50 balls. Good stat turp.

            • Greg haugsven

              He might actually be better if he cut that nasty salad off the top of his melon, and that Jordan Cameron pic is herendous. Not sure we want two dudes with nappy mullits…lol

              • Volume 12

                LOL. Neither one of them actually have mullets. Short up front, long in the back. Both of theses guys hair is long in both spots.

                Jordan Cameron also doesn’t have the long hair anymore from what I remember when watching him in 2014.

                I for one dig Luke Wilson’s hair. And his TD celebration is hilarious. He’s one of my favorite players on this team.

                • Greg haugsven

                  Your fight its not s mjllit, just didn’t know what to call it. I love me some v12 but I have to disagree with willies salad, its awful, but I do love the TD dance

                • Onur

                  I expect some development from luke willson. His td against panthers ( divisional round ) was very good. I love his td celebration too. And i think he can develop in blocking. I suppose Luke willson and Chris Matthews will really help this offense in future.

            • Turp

              Yeah, Willson is not good at jump balls. He needs to be led on crosses so he can body catch if needed. He doesn’t high point at all. i find it quite irritating to hear him as a potential red zone threat…he’s not that kind of athlete. He’s the guy that outruns LB’s with 4.5 speed and scores from 30 yards out (I’m talking to you patrick willis!). You can’t throw fades to him.

              While he is 6’5 and has a great vert, he still catches with his body too much. I would hope his catch rate goes up next year simply because that means the team is using him to his strengths and not his weaknesses as a receiver.

              • Rob Staton

                Another thing on Willson — he’s not physically imposing. He’s fast, but doesn’t use his size. He never boxes off a defender. He can race down the seam but he doesn’t win contested passes or use his body to shield the defender. He’s a nice weapon to have but actually not the type of TE is trying to acquire in Thomas and possible Cameron.

                • Greg haugsven

                  Your correct, that’s where a guy like gates really excells

        • Ho Lee Chit

          55% was Willson’s 2014 catch rate. He is actually 42 or 68 (62%) for 632 yards over two years. His first two years in the league are better than Golden Tate’s first two. In 2014, he did not have any help. Tate and Miller were out, making him more of the focus of the defense. Still, all of his numbers went up YOY except for his catch rate. I expect he will be back over 60% if we get him a little help. Pair Willson with Virgil Green or McCoy and we could have the weapon we need in the red zone. He’s a win for a 2nd round pick.

    • Rob Staton

      I think you’d have to offer more guarantees, but $5-6m APY seems about right.

      • Greg haugsven

        Maybe, but with that concussion history thats a gamble.

      • CharlieTheUnicorn

        5-6 M / year is what I think it will take to get it done. 3 year deal, might be worth the gamble.

  12. JC

    Eagles reportedly have interest in Tramon Williams. Many of the high priced CB options have cleared out and they’re getting very good money, we’ll see about second tier.

    • Steele1324

      Eagles, Jags, etc. are gorging themselves at the buffet, aren’t they. It is all quite grotesque.

  13. Trevor

    I think PC/JS really want Thomas or Cameron and view it as the #1 priority but I think with so many teams flush with cap space and a need to spend like Jacksonville and Oakland that we are going to be priced out of the market.

    When you look at the $ free agents are getting it amplifies the importance of having 11 picks this year.

    My fingers are crossed for Thomas or Cameron so we can focus on other needs in the draft but if not Max Willams early in the 2nd is almost a must pick. I have watched as much tape as I can find on him and while not dynamic he has good size, is a great route runner and I have not seen him drop one catchable pass. Team him with Willson and you have a good combo I think. Willson and his dynamic speed down the seam and Williams working the short to intermediate routes with great hands to move the chains.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s interesting that there’s been no update since Cole’s Tweet. Half expected an announcement by now.

    • Steele1324

      I just don’t see Maxx as a must pick. Fine, if he’s there in rd. 3, but considering the many other needs they have vs. the fact that Maxx just doesn’t have the speed and playmaking ability, I would hate to see them fight the board for him. Are there better options? That is what we’re here discussing.

      • Volume 12

        Obviously not at TE there isn’t. O-line absolutely. WR… I guess. But I think you could get just as much value or instant impact at receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round then at the back end of round 1.

        Ohio St’s WR Devin Smith is intriguing, as is USCs Nelson Agholor. UCF’s Breshad Perriman, for all his drops, the more I think about it, I’m not sure that scares Seattle off. IMO I feel like they think/know they can coach that up. He strikes me as a Sidney Rice type of receiver. Or is it just the dreads?

        As exciting as Perryman’s highlight tape is, I can’t tell what he does at the LOS. I’m hoping or guessing that at DraftBreakdown.com you can tell, right?

        • Steele1324

          I am a fan of Agholor/Dorsett/Dev Smith, etc. but in the back of my mind, I wonder if they are simply improvements on the Baldwin/Kearse model but with superior talent. That talent makes a difference. I do think they want to open camp with a diversified arsenal of many types, but that big+fast model is the one that is most frustrating, and seems to elude them.

          • Volume 12

            I absolutely agree, but if he’s not there, why reach? And Perriman doesn’t have great height either, but I don’t think you have to be 6’4 or 6’5, and guys like Dez Bryant, Andre Johnson, and others have shown that.

  14. Steele1324

    More evidence of how desperate all teams are for tall/fast TE freaks: KC just tendered Demetrius Harris. A rail thin 6-7″ dude. A giraffe-like dude off the street who couldn’t play, but they have kept trying to develop him into Jimmy Graham. And trying and trying. Years later, he is just starting to get how to run routes.

    Such freaks—over 6-4, 40 time below 4.7—just do not exist, except for the ones who already have the entire NFL lining up to get them. What are the Hawks to do? This draft has none of this type (among TEs).

    Is it down to the risky Cameron or nothing? Will the dearth of options in both FA and draft mean the Hawks won’t get one of these at all this offseason?

    • Volume 12

      Might have to wait until next year’s draft. There’s some good TEs coming out in 2016. Alabama’ s OJ Howard, Oregon’s Johnny Mundt I think and Pharaoh Browne, Georgia’s got a good one, just to name a few that come to mind.

      I don’t think he’s a 6’7 guy, but I’m curious to see what BYU TE Devin Mahina does at his pro day later this month. He’s 6’5 or 6’6 if I’m not mistaken,

      • CharlieTheUnicorn

        Mahina is the type of guy I can see Seattle going with late in the draft…. massive size, potential needing some refinement.

        • Jake

          Here’s to hoping OJ Howard learns how to catch and run routes. As a freshman, he was special – last year he was invisible.

  15. Rob Staton

    Jason La Canfora is saying Jacksonville is stretching to $10m APY on Julius Thomas. That’s what it’s taking to fend off Seattle.


  16. MoondustV

    I just fear that we end this offseason like last year, without any obvious upgradation in WR/TEs. That will definitely sucks. I hope PCJS are not stucked with their previous success, because this year’s road to SB49 is precarious. It’s excellent to achieve this with our passing weapons, but I doubt that it can be replicated. IMO, never. I just hate punt after punt, which actually killed us in 4th quarter vs. NE.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s a legitimate fear, moondust. They didn’t really upgrade the offense a year ago — it ended up getting hit with the loss of Tate, the Harvin trade, Miller’s injury. They can ill afford to not upgrade the offense.

      • MoondustV

        IMO, even a offense heavy draft cannot simply solve the problem. We only have limited picks in rd 1-4, and considering the habit that PCJS likes to trade down…

        And with such poor weapons, why would they hurry to extend RW3’s contract? Poor weapons will spoil the big $$$ in contrary. First things first. I just hope that we can get some surprise.

        • Jake

          Show me a statistic that says Seattle’s offense was subpar. The offense was efficient and explosive. This offense will be efficient and explosive as long as Lynch and Wilson are in the backfield. Anything more would be icing on the cake and put the offense into the top-5. But no team in this millennium is going to be able to field a top-5 offense and top-5 defense consistently because of the salary cap.

          Wilson is a force multiplier, he needs to make the receivers we have better. We will never be able to pay top-dollar to pass catchers AND re-sign core defensive players. In the either/or world of reality, I hope defense trumps big dollars on JT or any other receiver going forward. Rice, Miller, and Harvin signings show a willingness in the past to spend at receiver – but does the changing reality (big contracts now on defense & Wilson’s inevitable extension) impact that willingness? We will see I suppose.

  17. CharlieTheUnicorn

    Here is a name that has come up a few times… Ohio St’s WR Devin Smith. He will likely be around at the end of the 1st. His tape reminds me a bit of Golden Tate, with a bit more down the field explosiveness. When he catches balls in traffic, you could swear you were watching Golden’s clone.

    I’m all for drafting Phillip Dorsett (speed), Devin Smith would not be a bad fit either (speed/size).
    I just do not see the value of taking a TE in the draft early, not when you have EXPLOSIVE weapons available in the 1st 2 rounds in 2015.

    • Steele1324

      Dorsett and Smith would likely deliver similarly. Smith is physically stronger, Dorsett is a tad faster (if fully healthy). Explosive weapons are needed, but they have to bring in help that makes it easier for an undersized Russell Wilson to get the ball to.

    • Trevor

      I think what most people seem to forget is that this team lead the league in explosive plays last year. What we lacked was the ability to move the chains consistently and a big red zone passing target.

      That is why you consider someone like Max Willams in the second round. This is a team that relied of Copper Heflet and an off the street Tony Moeaki to make plays in the passing game last year.

      TE has to be the #1 need addressed on offense particularly if if you have any belief Matthews is he real deal. Think about the offenses that gave us trouble SD, Dallas and NE. All had great receiving Tight Ends.

      Option 1 Julius Thomas and OL or CB in the 1st
      Option 2 Cameron and OL or CB in the 1st
      Option 3 Trade down into 2nd and pick Williams with 1st Pick and Agholor or Mcbride with he 2nd pick then Waller in the 4th with the pick we get from Trading down.

      Despite the injuries in the secondary I think our Defense will be strong again in 2015 if we can get more consistency out of the offense and improve in the red zone we should have a great shot at getting back to he big dance.

      • Steele1324

        Waller is not going to last to the end of rd. 2. My feeling.

        How much of an improvement is Maxx over Willson? Better hands for sure. I question his speed, and speed is what they need. There are no conventional TEs in this draft with sub 4.7 40s.

        • Hawksince77

          To Trevors point, I think Williams gets you that 10-14 yard play that moves the chains, and does so consistently. He gets open and catches the ball.

          You can follow with a Williams pick with your flavor-of-the-moment WR as your second pick, without losing much in terms of options at the position. In the meantime, you provide that receiving security blanket that Wilson needs to get drives alive.

          • Jake

            I agree, that would be my focus – of course I’m not on the Seahawks payroll. I think Maxx has a very bright future. Witten, Shockey, Z. Miller, H. Miller and Gronkowski would like to talk about your underwear Olympics… I remember a few of these guys being pretty good TEs in the league, they didn’t look all that fast on the track without pads on either.

  18. Trevor

    One last thing we have to improve the return game. It was a disgrace last year. If I see Walters back to recieve a punt next year I am going to throw up.

    • Steele1324

      Please no.

      Draft a guy like Rannell Hall, who can ball at WR and return.

  19. j

    KC is signing Maclin. Speculation that Dwayne Bowe is being heavily shopped, with the expectation that he will be cut if there are no takers.

    At this point in his career, he isn’t a star player anymore. Yet I still would have interest, at a low enough price, of course. He has great size and is still physical, using that size to box out CB. With any competent QB he is a red-zone threat.

    Its not a sexy, headline grabbing move, but given the sorry state of our WR corps, and the likely cheap cost, its a move I’d pursue. We only have one or two WR who with a locked up roster spot, Baldwin (and maybe Alabama guy, too) Also could be a good hedge against the draft.

    • j

      Poor hands, but you aren’t going to get a perfect player at less than big money. As a moderately priced WR, he can have flaws.

  20. Steele1324

    The quickly disappearing TE options in FA get me thinking that a full throttle search of tall/fast WRs that could serve as almost as move TEs may be in the offing.

    I think of the WRs as two separate categories. One is the “normal” WRs under 6-4. The other is the freaks over 6-4 and under 4.7 40 yds.

    Waller is the obvious target at 6-6 4.46. Due to popularity, I have a terrible feeling he would go in rd.1/early rd. 2. Should the Hawks get him there? Could be their only chance.

    Perhaps I must warm up to the original name everyone seems to want: DGB. He may have shorter arms than you like, Rob, and other issues, but he’s tall, fast, explosive. There is Funchess, the other popular name, at 4. 7. He can make plays, too.

    Others I invite you all to consider:

    Dezmin Lewis 6-4/4.58
    Devin Gardner 6-4/4.62

    These are small school types, not much footage to go on:

    Jordan Taylor 6-4/4.5 (a bit soft)
    Jake Kumerow 6-4/4.58
    Matt Milton 6-5/4.62
    Addison Richards 6-4/4.67

    Yes, I am feeling quite desperate. JT would have put all this behind us.

    • Trevor

      I don’t think there is any chance Waller goes in the 1st or early 2nd as you suggest but if so I hope the Hawks don’t reach as he a project who would have little or no impact next year.

      I am hoping our top 2 picks can have some impact this year. I love Waller’s potential and really hope we get him but definitely not in the 1st or 2nd. He was not even the #1 target on his own team.

      • realrhino2

        I agree with you re Waller. Let’s not get caught up in our own hype. Just because he might fit what we are looking for or need doesn’t make him everybody’s cup of tea.

        I’m guessing McBride will be there at the end of the 3rd and Waller will be there at the end of the 4th, if not later.

        • AlaskaHawk

          There is a good chance he can be picked off some other teams practice squad later. No way I’d Waller a starter on any team.

          • AlaskaHawk

            Is Waller

    • SunPathPaul

      Those last 6 probably go real late or as UDFA. I read a bit on Jordan Taylor. Strength can be built, and toughness sometimes added… Maybe we take a flier on one of these guys. I hope so…if just for camp body competition!

      I would still like to sign Andre johnson for 2 years- 12 million… he could mentor our guys and be that big body guy when possible…

      If we take a WR early I really hope it is a ‘polished’ guy that can jump in day 1 and make the other D pay attention. Dorsett/Smith/Agholar probably could be efficient of from the start…

      • Steele1324

        Yes, many of those I listed are UDFAs. All projects, all raw. I am just “thinking out loud”, exploring all possibilities.

    • OZ

      Get off the DGB talk please, it’s not happening!!!!

      • Steele1324

        Why not? I don’t believe DGB would go in rd. 1, and might be there when the Hawks come around. If the goal is that big fast playmaker, I just don’t see many of them.

        • Jake

          DGB could very well be in play. His only real flaw (in my eye) is the smallish hands. Otherwise, he showed on the field he can get separation and use his body to shield defenders. Showing it on a football field is more valuable than what his vertical jump was. If Pete is good with his past off field issues, then he would be a very nice weapon.

          • Rob Staton

            “If Pete is good with his past off field issues…”

            Therein lies the problem I suspect…

            • Jake

              I’m just not willing to assume I know what Pete will do. From the outside, he looks like a big risk. But Pete might know his family for all we know, he may have inside information that trumps what the media knows. I like his game though. I’m just saying we don’t really know enough to rule anyone out completely. Except Maxx Williams of course, because he isn’t a “special” athlete… 🙂 I really love Maxx – he looks like Jeremy Shockey running around the football field.

              • Rob Staton

                Shockey ran a 4.58.

                • Jake

                  That was just a joke – since I know you are not a fan… Doesn’t mean he can’t run like Shockey in pads, with a football and other men trying to break him in half.

    • j

      Don’t know if we are that desperate. If we upgraded and added playmaking WR – I think we would be fine at TE. Willson, Helfet, late round draft pick (Jean Sifrin is huge, but flawed enough to be available late), resign Moeaki and McCoy, should be fine. A cheapish FA for around 3 million (Virgil Green depending on the price). Conditioned on adding WR in the draft/FA/trade though.

      TE is definitely an area we should target to improve – but it isn’t an absolute must that we do so.

      • Steele1324

        I agree with Rob that a big receiving threat is a must. They would struggle along without one, but a playmaking mismatch makes winning that much easier. Look at the luxury NE has with Gronk, NO with Graham. Luke Willson has bad hands! and is not going to be that guy. Haven’t we had enough of the mediocrity at WR and TE, no matter how hard working these overachievers are?

        • j

          I’m not saying that we don’t need playmakers. But does it need to be at TE? Wouldn’t a couple WR receiving threats and standing pat on TE suffice?

          It seems like there are better WR in the draft and even in FA than there are TE. If it is a choice between a good TE in round one or an equally good WR in round three, isn’t it better to go with the WR? Or a good TE in round one or a great WR in round one?

          What we need are receivers. The best possible receivers. Doesn’t matter if they are TE or WR, IMO.

          • AlaskaHawk

            Agreed- we need more high quality receivers regardless of what position they play.

  21. smitty1547

    Whatever happened to the big Oregon TE that came out last year with all the red flags, he in jail or stashed on someone’s practice squad?

    • SunPathPaul

      Colt Lyerla is a free agent… looks like he was a ‘first round guy’ that destroyed his chances…

      If he is clean, would we try it??

      • OZ


    • CharlieTheUnicorn

      He had some “problems”. I believe the Packers cut him off their PS.

      • BrianH

        If I remember correct, he got hurt during their OTA’s and what then arrested for DUI a couple weeks later… Not someone I think PCJS would mess around with.

        • CharlieTheUnicorn

          Eagles might however, they love them Oregon players. 😉

    • Rob Staton

      Coly Lyerla. Flamed out, arrested again in September.

      • Jake

        Please no. He’s somewhere between Aaron Hernandez and Jerramy Stevens on the list of idiot TEs. Anyone who is more idiotic than Jerramy Stevens has to be off the table.

  22. smitty1547

    why not give him a shot? It’s not like it’s gonna cost any money.

  23. Trevor

    Rob what is your opinion on WR Smelter from Georgia Tech? I was watching Georgia Tech tape for Waller after his combine and Smelter was the guy who really stood out. Great size, hands and an amazing blocker. I guess he was a baseball player who switched to football so he is a little raw but seems to have all the tools. I guess he tore his ACL so 2015 is a write off but is he someone you would target as an UDFA or even in the 7th to red shirt for a year?

    • Ho Lee Chit

      Frankly, we do not need receivers that are “a little raw”. We need top end talent. Either guys that have grown into the job (Matthews and Norwood) or round 1 and 2 talent. We simply do not have any roster spots for any more developmental WR’s.

      • bobbyk

        Every year there are plenty of players who “get hurt” and end up on IR. They don’t take up a roster spot and practice (i.e. improve) throughout the year after they have missed however much time. Lots of NFL players every year miss time and could be back by some point in the season but the team determines their roster spot too valuable to wait on (or they want them to develop and don’t want to waste a current roster spot on them).

      • Trevor

        He would not have to be on the active roster while rehabbing.

        • bobbyk

          I know. That’s why I said: “‘get hurt’ and end up on IR.” Injured reserve means you’re season is over and you do not count against the active roster. Hawks have done this before with some players who got hurt and were perfectly healthy later in the season (but couldn’t be activated).

          • SunPathPaul

            I think Smelter late with the 6th Comp pick would be sneaky good…

            • Jake

              I love Smelter! He’ll be PUP at best, or IR for the season at worst. Anyone you get in the 5th-6th round has flaws though. His flaw will disappear in 2016, unlike a project who may or may not pan out (Durham, Harper).

      • j

        Guess what…we need more than one WR. We need at least three. Also, we have needs in addition to three WR. Unless you want to trade up for three first rounders and ignore other positions of need, some of those guys are going to have to be mid-rounders.

        I’d love to magically pick three times in the top 15, and grab Parker, Cooper and White. Except I’d probably use at least one of those picks at CB or OL. But in any event, that isn’t going to happen.

        • Steele1324

          I see realistically the chance for one higher+mid round/or two mid round and a couple of low/UDFA types to start camp with. Unless JSPC completely blow it, there should be bodies. What they are, we’ll see.

    • Rob Staton

      I thought he looked a little heavy to be honest. The ACL probably makes him an UDFA and a project for 2016.

      • Trevor

        Thanks for the feedback. He played at 6’3 and 230 so you might be right about being a little heavy and why he was such a good blocker in that run focused offense. Just read he had 11 inch hands though and that is rare.

        • Jake

          His box-out skills are already elite, so he offers something immediately as he develops as a WR. Watch some GT games… He wins jump balls with regularity. He outplayed Waller all year.

  24. CharlieTheUnicorn

    I’ve not heard the name Bengals TE Gresham mentioned here. He is a good blocker, with experience, from a team that liked to rush the ball in 2014. He has not been a big time receiving threat, but has been able to move the sticks from time to time. For the right price, 3-4.5 million / year… might be well worth kicking the tires on this guy.

    • Steele1324

      Not a fan of Gresham at all. He is being pursued to be overpaid by many, Oakland I believe.

      • Steele1324

        On the other hand, Gresham is the type of TE they need. The type anyway. Why can’t I get more excited about him?

  25. Steele1324

    Okay, I will introduce some blasphemy for discussion: Vernon Davis. He may or may not be a cap casualty for SF. There are mixed reports of bonding with Kaepernick and intentions to keep him, but he also just listed his house and his time is just about up.

    If he is more than a shadow of himself, if he has retrieved what Kam Chancellor knocked out of him, could you see him playing for the Hawks? (I cringe as I anticipate your replies.)

    • redzone086

      I have thought the same thing…

    • rowdy

      I actually talked about him sense before the season ended. I think for the right price he would be a great addition. He’s a receiving threat that can block. Past his prime, absolutely but when your down to Gresham and cameron as the only viable options what do you got to lose? I love cameron but he missed 6 games last year with his 3rd head injury, it’s only a matter of time before he gets another one. I can’t think of one player that has played great after 4 head injuries.

  26. Jeff M.

    Not a huge fan of taking a risk on Cameron unless he comes cheaply. I don’t think it’s TE or bust for this offseason; I’d be plenty fine rolling with Willson, McCoy, and maybe Moeaki back on another one-year deal, and putting $ into an upgrade somewhere else. Maybe that’s Andre Johnson or go snatch Torrey Smith out from under SF’s nose… (or a trade for V-Jax like Rob mentions), but it doesn’t necessarily even have to be a pass catcher. Our big $ upgrade could be Iupati at LG or Bulaga at RT or another piece for the D-line–we just need to find where the value is and improve the team overall rather than getting tunnel-vision on a particular position or player type.

    • Jeff M.

      One note on Torrey Smith, who hasn’t been mentioned a lot as an option for the Seahawks, probably because his body type doesn’t seem ideal–while his conventional stats weren’t great last season (53% catch rate, 767 yards), he had an absolute monster season in terms of drawing DPI. He had 11 for 229 yards while the next-closest were Jordy Nelson with 6 for 129 and Alshon Jeffery with 4 for 125 (most years the league-leader is just over 100 yards)–if you add those into his receptions and receiving yards he looks like an elite deep threat (and it pushed him to 10th in DYAR and 8th in DVOA, which take penalty yards into account–almost the same value produced as Demaryius Thomas in exactly half the number of targets…) and a good fit for our system (that’s basically 11 extra “explosive plays” that don’t show up in his stat line). I hope the current rumors that he’s close to agreeing with the 9ers don’t bear out, as I think he’s a lot more dangerous than some may think.

      • Steele1324

        Torrey Smith is off the market.

        • Steele1324

          Or close to it. Hawks not even in the conversation.

        • UKHawkDavid

          But it looks like Colin Sack-or-pick is! Apparently he’s on the trading block. I was untested in Torrey Smith for the right price but I had the Santa Clara lot are offering $8m – $9m annually, which seems like too much.

          • UKHawkDavid

            *interested (damn sausage fingers)

            • Steele1324

              I thought you were joking, but it’s true. Kaepernick being floated as trade bait! How on earth would that work? He goes to Philly, and SF takes Mariota? That would be surreal.

              • Volume 12


              • Phil

                Maybe they can trade Kap to KC for Alex Smith …

  27. red

    A couple guys that nobody has really been talking about Charles Clay got slapped with a transition tag and Andre Holmes RFA non second RD tender. Would not be crazy to offer Clay to an offer sheet and see if Miami counters do they have money left after Suh? Also Holmes 6’4 210 had a nice under the radar year for Oakland last year only 26 he was a UDFA so if we offered oh say 3 mil does Oakland counter if so could we trade a fifth for him?

    • Steele1324

      Chuck Clay is a name that has been on top of my list for a while, and Holmes is a nice prospect. Clay is worth trading for.

      • Steele1324

        Clay would probably only require $6 million. The way this market looks, that ‘s cheap. Unfortunately the Bills are already at his door. Big Play Clay’s 40 time is around 4.6 and he can block. John Schneider, get on your phone.

        • Volume 12

          I think they could get a guy like Auburn TE CJ Uzomah who compares quite favorably to Charles Clay actually.

          • red

            Clay was a FB coming out of Tulsa in 2011 NFL Draft Scout had him rated as number 1 FB in draft so he is straight H Back not really a TE but could save us a roster spot if you want to use him a little at FB could help around the red zone. If I were looking for comp on Clay in this draft I would say maybe Wes Saxton both around 6’3 240-245. Saxton lined up about 60 percent in the slot and maybe 5-10 percent in backfield.

            • Volume 12

              Uzomah lined up at FB, TE, in the slot, out wide as well. Wes Saxton is a good comp though too.

              • red

                I recall we signed Gator Hoskins to the practice squid for like a week. He had some Clay type features in him but I think he was dealing with injury might be a good idea to check on him for 90 man roster. I herd Uzomah ran a decent 40 on his pro day 6’5 265 is big dude for H back/TE I find him intriguing after the 5th might be nice practice squad stash or TE3 depending on how fast he could pick up the offense.

                • Steele1324

                  Virgil Green has been contacted by “up to 13 teams”. Are the Hawks on this list?

  28. Volume 12

    I get that Seattle needs a red zone target and help at receiver. And receivers that are drafted and counted on in that same year are rare or they take time to develop, but as for FA, when was the last time one of these deals made a significant difference for their team?

    WR Golden Tate was a great get for Detroit, but it was their defense that really brought them along this year. Brandon Browner to NE was a big move for them, but he wasn’t exactly a ‘high priced/priority’ FA. CB Darrell Revise is a perennial FA so I’m not counting him.

    My point is, there has been guys in the past who have helped a team some, but most of the time these big deals handed out to FAs either blow up in said team’s face, or it hamstrings them, and then they can’t continue to build or keep guys they’ve developed.

    Building through the draft and not over-paying for FAs is what Seattle’s all about. Sure, it would be more than nice to add a Julius Thomas or someone along those lines, and it could be just me, but I think we’ll be pleasantly surprised with Seattle’s draft choices this year when it comes to adding play-makers at the WR position. Getting a receiver that gets 30-50 catches, 400-500 yards, 5-7 TDs, and a versatile/field-tilting receiver with B or B+ return skills would make all the difference in the world offensively.

    • Steele1324

      Well, this is the ongong debate. If the goal is to remain competitive “forever’, of course, you remain frugal and develop young talent, and maybe you win along the way if all of this talent blossoms fortuitously at the same time. The Hawks have largely had this happen so far. They will continue this formula.

      But we have hit a dead or slow spot in this development train, at the same time as we face a bad draft for need positions at TE and CB. If the goal is to win a SB in 2015, they have to find FA starters for positions that are question marks due to injury. If they don’t have impact depth on the field (not riding pine), 2015 could be a struggle.

      • Volume 12

        That’s my point. Signing FAs is all well and good. Getting a Tramon Williams, or Adrian Claiborne/Trent Cole is good value IMO. But these big name guys are the ones that worry me.

        Chris Matthews, possibly Kevin Norwood, P-Rich, Luke Willson, Justin Britt, Garry Gilliam, ‘Pig’ Bailey, Turbo, C-Mike (yeah I know), Cassius Marsh, Jordan Hill, KPL, Brock Coyle, Tharold Simon, Marcus Burley, Eric Pinkins, isn’t exactly slowing down the train development wise. Add another 3-4 developmental rookies this year and 2-3 UDFAs as well.

        Yeah, they need depth in a few other spots, which they’ll address, they always do.

        • peter

          In some ways what you said is why I was/ still am in some ways the defensive FAs that I went on and on about.

          First historically Seattle and the off season offense moves have been pretty crappy to put it mildly and i know every situation is different. And I can appreciate the irony of JT to Jax right as I come around to him here!

          But bigger picture if they don’t quote/unquote make a splash in FA and just do what they always do…later cheaper pickups maybe that’s all the need to do.

          With eleven picks and minimal maneuvering they could go something like:

          2 Ol
          3 WRTE
          3 db
          2 Dl/De
          1 Lb

          Plus any udfa’s and your list that’s getting into college spring ball which I like as for having some heavy competitions for roster spots, which I kind of think the team needs in some ways just to avoid last seasons early season sputtering.

          • Volume 12

            Spot on Peter. I also have them taking the exact numbers at the exact positions you do. But I haven’t figured out/made up my mind if they’ll take a HB or a LB, and then get the other as a priority UDFA.

            I plan on doing a mock draft just for ‘shits and giggles’ after FA has cooled down. I’ll also have 2-3 UDFAs on there. I do one every year, but this will be the first year I’ll have a place to post and discuss it.

            • peter

              Same here! I’ve got two theories on which way to…plus I’m looking forward to your udfas list…ive got some thoughts! We both have to remember to pit one head scratcher or one matt miller from B/r “f” grade player on the list.

  29. Lenny James


    Grab Devin Smith @ 31. DGB/ Waller @ 63 and be done with it. Sheesh There’s your future. Hopefully u can add a healthy P Rich and a improving Mathews to the mix. Let ADB run the slot. Meanwhile you have Kearse as your insurance policy until one of the young guys emerges. Rds 3-7 get your meat and potatoes. OL, DL, TE, CB. Oh yeah address KR/PR. How sweet would a SB Santa Clara appearance be?

    Oh yeah. We still have the Beast.

    • Steele1324

      That could be the future. The question is, what is your time frame for a SB? Veterans don’t require development time. Rookies do.

    • Steele1324

      Landing a “normal” good WR like Devin Smith will not be difficult. The big fast targets—Waller, DGB, etc.—are difficult to get, because there is a feeding frenzy. Every team that doesn’t already have one wants one. There are not many in either the draft or FA. We will stop stressing about it if they find a way past the more moneyed teams, but that is a big if. They shoudn’t overreach, but we are looking at severe limits.

      • Cysco

        What’s with this fascination on DGB by some people? Have those people who like/want DGB actually watched on the guy? (there’s not a lot of it) He is not the next Dez or Megatron. He’s incredibly raw. On top of that, he had IMO the most embarrassing vertical jump of anyone in the combine. The dude is not “Sparqy”

        The dude jumped 33.5inches. That’s it! To put that in perspective:

        Phillip Dorsett, who at 5’10 is 7 inches shorter than DGB, jumped two inches higher than DGB and has bigger hands.

        Or, put another way, I’m a 40yo bald white guy in pretty good shape. I’m 5’10 and on a good day can pull off a 27in vertical. So DGB, at 6’5 can only jump roughly six inches higher than me. lol

        • hawkfaninMT

          Your calculations mean (assuming a wingspan that equates to hiegth) that he can get another foot higher than you… That isn’t bad for a human!

          I get why some people are down on him… at the end of round 1, these guys are going to have holes. It’s just a fact of life. I am in the Devin Smith camp, so not a DGB lover. But the guy is a good wide receiver. Maybe a bad guy. Maybe small hands. But a good wide receiver.

          • AlaskaHawk

            I bet the bald white guy is a team player that will bring sandwhiches and beer to the game!

  30. Volume 12

    Rob, I know your planning on doing a piece on UCFs Breshad Perriman. So, I ask you, what about this WR JJ Worton?

    He’s a pretty unique receiver. 6’2, 210 lbs., tough as nails, gritty, out-spoken/confident. Also a PR? At that size? Don’t know what he’ll run, if he does, because of the ACL tear, but I’d bet if Jaelen Strong ran a 4.4, Worton could as well. At least a 4.5. He’s a big play receiver with some dynamic skills to his game that bailed out QB Blake Bottles how many times last year in clutch situations?

    Don’t really know what’s tilted my opinion this way, but I see Seattle leaving the draft or UDFA (which is basically the 8th round) with 1 of the 3 UCF WRs.

    • Rob Staton

      He’s made some spectacular plays in his career at UCF — but he has an ACL injury as of December. Going to take a year on IR if you take a chance. Makes it difficult to think he can contribute down the line when he won’t be able to do anything for a year.

      • red

        Hi Rob

        What do you think of Cedric Ogbuehi he also is going to be redshirt candidate. Could be a good RT/G where do you think he goes 3RD 4TH Round?

        • Rob Staton

          I’m cautious of reports saying he rarely practiced last year. Then there’s the injury. He struggled at left tackle but flashed at right tackle. I think he goes R2-3. In round four I would definitely consider it depending on who they target early, but for me the earlier main interior targets should be — Sambrailo, Erving, Fisher with some nice tackle convert options later on.

    • Steele1324

      Rob, I’m looking forward to your writeup on Perriman. But at 6-2, he is in my “normal” WR category, not the big target category. There is a lot of good normal, almost no big targets.

      • Rob Staton

        I think they’re almost handcuffed in the draft in that regard. There isn’t an obvious ‘big receiver’ option. I think that’s why taking Darren Waller later as a project for the next 2-3 years is a possibility. But part of my thinking in being aggressive for the two big name TE’s is that it’s really the only way to solve this problem in 2015. In the draft you’re going to be looking at 6-0 to 6-2 receivers at best.

  31. Donald

    With the depth at WR, I say go for a quality OL at #31, Erving or Fisher.

    Move up to mid 2nd rd by trading your #4 (Hawks have another #4 comp pick) to get a very good Agholor or McBride for speed to take Richardson’s place and for punts and kickoffs.

    3rd rd take Conley or Waller. Waller could be converted to TE, his tapes show he is a willing and good blocker. Picking basically last in each round is like picking one round later.

    • Rob Staton

      There’s also a fair bit of depth on the OL too.

      The danger with waiting is — you pick at the end of each round. You run the risk of waiting on depth and then missing out completely. Seattle can ‘fill in’ at guard a lot better than they can fill in at receiver or tight end. And if they’re afforded the opportunity to pick their favored receiver (4th or 5th off the board) at #31, they might have to take it.

      • Steele1324

        I agree with Rob on this.

  32. Cysco

    any guesses what the big player news out of san fran is going to be? Also, I hadn’t heard the rumors that they might be trading Kaepernick


    • Rob Staton

      I think it’ll be Patrick Willis.

      EDIT — confirmed it seems here. He’s set to retire: https://twitter.com/Rand_Getlin/status/574934793692950529

      • drewjov11

        San Franciso just imploded. I feel like they intentionally tried to start a rebuid, but there is no wat that they could have foreseen losing Smith and Willis like this. I don’t feel sorry for them…But seriously, that is a lot to deal with.

  33. roland jose

    IF we sign him, he and willson will be rivals or wingmen for all the chicks in Seatown!”;)

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