Following up yesterday’s information, I’ve had further contact with my source and he’s been able to shed a bit more light on a few things. Remember, these are just things he’s heard. I’m merely relaying the information. Don’t forget to check out my earlier article on Colin Kaepernick and the ‘Pete Carroll offense’.
– Ryan Mallett is not part of Seattle’s plans due only to a lack of mobility and it is not an issue of character.
– It’s understood Colin Kaepernick is the second ranked quarterback on Seattle’s board and apparently Andy Dalton is ranked at #3. The top ranked quarterback is not known. It’s important to remember that guaranteed top-ten locks Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert are probably not on the board due to their likely exit point.
– Mike Pouncey is viewed as a guard, not a center and is a favorite but likely won’t last to #25.
– Adrian Clayborn, Marcus Cannon, Phil Taylor, Stephen Paea and Marvin Austin – players the team has shown interest in but will not be drafting for various reasons.
– Some mid/late rounders to keep an eye on – Curtis Marsh (CB, Utah State), DeMarcus Van Dyke (CB, Miami), Lee Ziemba (OL, Auburn), Jeff Tarpinian (LB, Iowa).
– It’s understood that Jimmy Smith is valued higher than Prince Amukamara and that he’s likely to go in the 15-20 range on draft day.
– Trading up appears to be unlikely. In the fact the words used by my source were that a trade up won’t occur unless “Aaron Rodgers re-enters the draft”.
– Finally, it’s said that one high profile member of the coaching staff is a big fan of Mark Ingram and would love to draft him at #25 if available. However, the front office believe there are too many needs on the roster to draft a running back in round one.
So disappointing about Dalton. If anything I hope they dont draft a QB at all if it means not wasting a pick on him. Not gonna lie, I literally have ZERO idea about what the Hawks will do but I’m baring myself for disappointment because the talent level takes a nose dive around pick 20.
In light of this new info Rob, what’s your gut feeling in what they do?
Hard to read because a lot of the information I’ve received is who isn’t likely to be an option. I would say Pouncey is probably the pick if he’s there at #25. Kaepernick looks like a possibility, although I think they will try to trade down first. It may depend on who falls.
On Dalton, we’re still not sure what grade they have on him. It could be: #1 gets a R1 grade, Kaepernick gets a R2 grade and Dalton R4. It may be that they’re all grouped at #25 or #57, we just don’t know. Everyone knows my views on Mallett, Dalton etc so I won’t repeat, but I would not recommend taking Dalton in the first two rounds.
Ah, very good point. Never thought of it that way. Makes me think Ponder is not in consideration due to the arm injuries.
Is this possibly a regime that has nom faith in young QBs and simply avoids them?
Forgot to add, I could see Carroll beingthe guy who absolutely loves Ingram. Seems like his ideal player. Breathes football, war daddy, etc.
It’s not the Head Coach.
My money would be on Cable as the coach who likes Ingram…he’s new to the organisation and may want a new stud RB to put up good YPC to make his line look good.
Very possible. Though I said before I had a hunch this FO liked Ponder, I forgot to consider that they are also really big on arm strength, which would rule Ponder out.
I just hope Dalton & Ponder get R7 grades. or I hope SF, STL or AZ draft them…..=)
One positive thing about Dalton, what a beautiful throwing motion.
I noticed that immediately as well. NFL caliber.
The bad news? Same thing is true for Charlie Whitehurst.
I personally was blown away by his Einstein like breakdowns on the whiteboard.
I do agree though, his one positive is a nice release. That said, he looks physically maxed out and I wouldn’t expect his arm to get any stronger, which is going to be a huge issue for him at the next level.
He did better than Cam in that event. Cam Newton’s whiteboard was painful to watch, and he seemed so proud of it. Too bad Gruden didn’t get Kaepernick in there.
He did better than Cam (which isn’t saying much). The difference is Cam has physical talent wheras Dalton has close to zero by NFL standards.
I bet I can guess who the high profile member of the coaching staff that wants to draft Mark Ingram is in two guesses.
its got to be cable
Not necessarily.
Cable knows great running backs. That was my guess too.
Or perhaps Darrell Bevell.
Cable or Sherman Smith?
#1 QB on the Hawks board must be Locker eh?
Curtis Marsh? We need more on him……
I’m digging out info on Marsh.
Fwiw, Scout on Marsh has him as a converted RB and 6’1″ 195ish. Likes to play BB and Pete thinks he can take him to the rim. (made that up).
http://sea.scout.com/a.z?s=114&p=8&c=1&nid=5384594&yr=2011
Wes Bunting over at NationalFootballPost really like Curtis Marsh. Supposedly he is not higher on draft boards because he played only one season as a cornerback.
Jeff Tarpinian is intriguing. He is similar in size to Kam Chancellor but faster and more athletic. He is undersized as a LB, so perhaps they are looking to convert him into strong safety.
I’ve like marsh for awhile. Alot of upside. As for 1st rd with no locker or trade back:
1st wilkerson/liuget/watt (de)
2nd hudson (og)
4th little (wr)
5th marsh (cb)
5th brewer (ot)
6th williams (dt)
Would absolutely love that Draft (minus the whole no QB thing). I’m extremely high on Hudson, Little, Marsh, and Brewer.
I really do hope we find a way to draft Greg Little because I think he has the potential to be a borderline #1 WR due to his size, strenght, and relatively great speed for how big he is.
Cable is about as high profile as you can get. I like Davon House a lot….
I have no idea what Tom Cable thinks about Mark Ingram and he may like him a lot, but he’s not the coach I’m referring to.
If it’s not PC or Cable then my guess is Bevell.
Bingo.
I’m assuming that Locker is the #1 QB on their board then. Ugh. If I have to watch Locker play in Seattle for another few years, I’m going to be an unhappy 12th. Pick him up in the 4th round…fine. But please don’t go near him in the 1st.
On a side note…Jimmy Smith would be AWESOME at #25. Ingram would be a fantastic addition, but might not be a great pick with the other glaring needs on the team.
If the QB situation is true (no Mallett, maybe Locker), then go grab Smith or Pouncey if they’re available. If not, trade down!
What I gather is that if Pouncey, Smith, possibly Ingram, and possibly QB#1 are off the board at 25, they’re going hard after a move down into round 2 where they like Kaepernick.
I think that’s a fair assesment.
Makes great sense to me! I like that idea, I don’t know about Ingram however with QB and CB, OL needs..
I am ok with the Kaepernick pick. He seems to have good upside, but looks like he could use some time to develop. My question is Rob, if Pouncey, Smith and Ingram are off the board and we cant trade back, do we take Kaepernick at 25? Did you get the impression that they liked him enough to take him in the first?
This brings up a really good point. I’ve always been under the ideology that you pick a guy in the 1st who you think can immediately contribute. You save the “upside” or “project” picks for the later rounds. I don’t love the idea of taking a project QB in the 2nd. I hate the idea of making that pick in the 1st. Of course, every prospect is a project and we don’t know how they’ll play out in the NFL. However, we doubt that Kaep would come in and start next season. Take a guy like Jimmy Smith (if available) and he’s probably going to start and contribute from day 1.
Sounds like the Tim Ruskell philosophy to me and all that leads to is a bunch of mediocre to good players and no elite talent. I’d like this front office to continue being aggressive and taking risks. That said Kaep at 25 would be a huge reach and I’d be much happier taking him in the second
I dont personally think we should reach for Kaepernick in the first. Our team is so devoid of Star Power I think we have to take whatever player we think can be a Pro Bowler. There is no position on the team we could overlook, mostly because teams use two tackles and safeties. We need great players and 25 is a tough spot to find them.
A good reason why trading up might not be as absurd as some people believe
Hi Dude,
If the source is correct it sounds like they’d be willing to consider Kaepernick at #25 if they can’t move down. I trust the source implicitly because it’s been proven correct too many times. The statement was that Kaepernick had been given consensus approval, meaning everyone in the Seahawks brain trust is agreed that they like him.
Whatever coach is giving this inside info should first get punched in the face by Tom Cable then get fired. What are you a 8th grade gossip girl
My comparisons of Mallett, Locker & Kaepernick.
ATHLETIC RANK?
1. Kaepernick
2. Locker
3. Mallett
INTELLIGENCE RANK?
1. Kaepernick, (38 wonderlick, 1650-SAT )
2. Mallett, (26 wonderlick)
3. Locker, (20 wonderlick)
CAREER PASSING YARDS & STATISTICS RANK?
1. Kaepernick, (10,098 yards, 82-TD’s, 24-INT, 56-sacks)
2. Mallett, (8,385 yards, 69-TD’s, 24-INT, 62 sacks)
3. Locker, (7,639 yards, 53-TD’s, 35-INT, 74 sacks)
CAREER RUSHING ABILITY RANK?
1. Kaepernick, (600/4112/59-td’s, 6.85-ypc)
2. Locker, (454/1939/29-td’s, 4.27-ypc)
3. Mallett, (135/-141/7-td’s, -1.04-ypc)
CAREER TOTAL OFFENSE RANK?
1. Kaepernick, (14,210 yards, 141-td‘s.)
2. Locker, (9,578 yards, 82-td’s. )
3. Mallett, (8,244 yards, 76-td’s. )
ARM STRENGTH RANK?
1. Kaepernick
2. Mallett
3. Locker
PASSING ACCURACY? (2010)
1. Kaepernick, (64.9%)
2. Mallett, (64.7%)
3. Locker, (55.4%)
LEADERSHIP/PASSION FOR FOOTBALL RANK?
1. Kaepernick
2. Locker
3. Mallett
LACK OF INJURY – RANK?
1. Kaepernick (never missed a start)
2. Mallett, hasn’t been hurt too much….yet.
3. Locker, has missed a lot of games & practices.
READING DEFENSES & CHECK DOWN ABILITY – RANK?
1. Mallett
2. Kaepernick
3. Locker
I won’t get too much into it, but you do realize that a lot of the things you say are pretty much meaningless when you consider the totality of the circumstance?
You’re not considering the opponents faced, the relative superiority of the his team to his opponent’s, the type of offense the players run, the difficulty of the throws, and his team’s pieces.
For example, Locker’s % is heavily lowered by the fact that he A) doesn’t have a TE B) doesn’t have a FB C) doesn’t have good pass pro D) has an inconsistent at best WR corp E) makes far more difficult throws than Colin.
And even then, there are a bunch of subjective things that we’re not 100% sure. Leadership? Athleticism? I haven’t heard or seen anything that suggests Colin is superior to Jake.
Finally, I don’t really care about the Wonderlic score, but that aside, what’s with the 1650 SAT score for Colin? You do realize that it’s impossible to get a 1650 if you count only Verbal and Math right? And if you’re counting all 3 sections, 1650 is absolutely ATROCIOUS.
Alex
Here are a few things to chew on. Please do not take offense if I continue to consider Kaepernick as a legitimate Seahawk pick, I’ve just studied him a lot, including numerous game films and I believe in his abilities. The likely outcome in this draft is that Mallett and Locker will not be available at #25 and If the Seahawks want to fill their GREATEST need, they will draft a QB and I think that guy is Kaepernick, regardless if he’s an apple or an orange.
ARM STRENGTH:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=nfp-20110228_source_colin_kaepernick_meets_with_14_teams_has_strongest_arm_at_combine
MOST ATHLETIC:
http://football.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/21389/20110419/trainer_kaepernick_is_more_athletic_than_newton/
COMPETITION:
http://nevadasagebrush.com/
2010 Highlights:
49-24 win over E. Washington (bowl game)
51- 6 win over Colorado St.
52-31 win over California
27-13 win over Brigham Young
34-31 win over Boise State, (BS only loss) finished #10 overall.
Nevada’s only loss came at Hawaii 21-27. Finished season 12-1.
Nevada may not be a BCS team however their football program is
Very much on the rise thanks to Kaepernick.
Ever heard a a QB nicknamed “HAMBONE”, he was from Milton college.
And he had a successful NFL career. There are a number of others from
smaller schools that have found success as well.
Even though I am a UW Alum, I am not a fan of Locker because he was so inconsistent. Having said that I cannot see how you can compare a kid who played in the WAC to the competition level of PAC 10.
And please stop using the small college analogy, Krieg was not that great (I followed his career and was there when he took over for Zorn for the first time vs the Jets). No one remembers him other than Seahawks fans with maybe some Chief fans sprinkled in.
lol. Your right. I am not a huge fan of Locker either, also UW Alum, BUT the kid didn’t have much of an offense to work with either.
Krieg’s nickname was Mudbone, not Hambone. How soon we forget.
A 1650 SAT score isn’t anything to write home about (even if it was an indicator of intelligence). 1500 is about the minimum score to get into a state university and 2400 points is the maximum score.
Kaepernick’s high completion percentage could be the result of the fact that Nevada’s offense is a combination power & zone run-based offense where Kaepernick throws A LOT of somewhat easy play action passes and screens. That particular statistic means very little to me. You are comparing apples with oranges.
I have a theory, not necessarily that I believe just that I was thinking about and would like some feedback on.
So last year this “source” mixed in some things that happened and some that did not. No interest in Clausen happened, drafting Eric Berry and Trent Williams did not. I’ve said in the past that this source wouldn’t be the type that “smoke screens” would be sent out through based on what I’ve seen and read over the past year+, but…
Is it possible that the info said source offered up last year was a safe mixture of fact and stretched truth for a reason? Is it possible that the Seahawks had Okung and Thomas rated higher than Williams and Berry the whole time? Would it be safe to say that at least some teams and probably many have people scanning the internet for inside information about certain aspects of the draft?
What I’m getting at is that my initial reaction was to think sending a rumor that could potentially benefit the Seahawks’ posture out through a couple locally themed blogs/forums was an extremely unlikely strategy, but upon further review it isn’t THAT unbelievable. What do you think Rob? Are you being used as a tool by the Seahawks FO or is that just crazy talk?
I’m personally not big into conspiracy theories, but in all honesty I don’t doubt anything you are saying.
It could be very possible that they rated both guys higher. After all, some people did have Earl Thomas ranked as the #2 CB and guys like Mayock thought he was the #1 safety.
Really, I don’t put anything past people these days during draft time. It only makes sense considering how much love Andy Dalton gets. Does anyone really think that a GM would put their future in the hands of Dalton with a first round pick? I mean really. They are putting their fate as a GM in the NFL, on a guy like Dalton. Personally, I can’t see any GM even remotely thinking of that as a real possibility. Perhaps (like you said), this Dalton hype (for instance) could be generated by all these teams in the 20s who want to trade down. What better way to inspire a trade down, then talking up a QB to be a “borderline” first round talent, who does have pretty stats and wins on his resume (despite no physical talent)?
In the end though, these teams have been scouting these players for so long, that opinions will not change based on what the Peter King’s of the world say. It wasn’t only a month ago when a guy like Dalton was considered a middling QB prospect who doesn’t physically have what it takes to compete in the NFL. Now, he’s the “savvy winner,” who is a “workaholic” that understands all the “nuances of football like Drew Brees.” 30 seconds of his sit down with John Gruden should speak volumes as to the reality of his mental grasp of the pro game.
Haha. This is the exact thing that came to my mind when I heard the source’s info. I find it hard to believe a team would be so careless about concealing moves that revolve around so much money and talent. On the other hand there’s no reason to think it’s anything less than legit info. In the end I think I’ll just take everything with a grain of salt no matter whose mouth it comes from. Considering we got jumped twice last year in the draft, I’m guessing this team is either very good at misinformation or very bad at secrecy.
No, but the same source said that they wanted a FS and a tackle, and said they were high on Okung as well. And are you really faulting this source for being wrong on two guys who were off the board by the 6th pick? It isn’t like the Seahawks passed on those two players.
It’s not a case of the team being loose. Information is going to get out – rest assured that come draft day most teams will have a good idea what each other is thinking. Sure there’s a lot of smoke screening, but when a source consistently gets things right you start to take it seriously when they speak. You don’t have to value me saying this, some people won’t, but I trust this source implicitly.
I’m not being ‘used’ because the source isn’t part of the Seahawks franchise. I guarantee you that the source isn’t being ‘used’ either (take my word on that, I can’t say anymore). Enjoy the fact we have a little insight into things and embrace it. I wouldn’t be so careless to publish information on here I didn’t believe was true. Everything said about the draft last year was proven 100% correct. They loved Eric Berry and would’ve drafted him at #6 if available. He wasn’t available, and neither was Trent Williams. Clearly they graded Okung very highly too and were prepared to take him in such a circumstance. The two positions the source said they would target were specific and both came true. There were other things he discussed too that came true, some not necessarily common knowledge either.
Awesome. Great.
Who’s faulting anyone?
Rang says Titans at eight have a strong interest in Locker. The link is through roto.
After VY, they have zero interest in head case labeled Qb’s wether true or not. Having Kaep or locker on our “board” may be an exercise in futility.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6424/jake-locker
More support in sportswriter mock.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/04/22/2011-mock-draft-60
Clare has us taking Watkins which may be a good pick but unpopular.
I actually think Watkins is a terrible pick. No need for a rebuilding team to draft a 27 yr old guard in round 1.
They won’t draft Watkins at #25. They are not drafting a 27-year old guard.
If we take Watkins… in the first… I’m gonna have to buy a wig to cover up all the hair I will pull out.
I wouldn’t worry about that, I think your hair will be safe.
we need a guard, but yeah, not 27 year old rookie (even though he is a beast). i would love to trade back, let’s say with cincy:
2nd sheard
2nd hudson
3rd carpenter
4th wright
Get on the bandwagon folks. Carroll and Co. knew they couldnt target 1st rd players without selling the farm. Obviously if someone they like falls theyd stay and play but other wise stocking picks trading back even if they are lower rated players its less risk because after 15-18 the quality in rd one really falls off. Go Carroll and Co. im in!!!!!
I like kaep in rd 2nd but the oline must help the rookie. Rb allen bradford rd3 rd 4 G clint boling rd 5 cb andrew mcgee rd 6 de pernell mcphee and then take some risky shots in between. Im sure this is where Carroll would like to involve picks and players in them trades like last year.
If Seattle takes a QB in round 1, with all the money that would entail plus Whitehursts salary, how could they afford to re-sign Hasselbeck? I mean QB is the most important position, but you can only tie up so much salary cap before crippling your ability to pay quality guys accross all other positions. I know, Peyton Manning may get $20MM, but he’s Peyton Manning. Paying Hass $10MM, Whitehurst $4MM and a 1st round rookie $2.5MM would tie up $16.5MM, about 1/8th of the total cap (assuming ~$135MM) without Manning like production.
Just sayin that if they take a QB at 25, or even early 2nd round if they succeed in trading down, I have to believe that significantly reduces the chance of Hass coming back, and then we’re starting Whitehurst, a different less expensive FA QB, or the rookie. I’d be OK with that, but since evaluating Kaepernick began long ago, it makes you wonder how sincere they were about re-signing Matt before first seeing what comes of the draft. They had to know that if they re-signed him, it would tie their hands a bit regarding taking a QB early because of the above dilemna.
Unless Matt Leinart is some kind of poison in the locker room, I could see Carroll bringing him in to compete as well on the cheap. Whitehurst, Leinart, Kaepernick and a less expensive FA QB like Gradkowski from Oakland all for about $10MM in 2011.
I think the Seahawks have one of the lowest cap numbers in the league so money shouldn’t be a problem
One reason Leinart won’t end up in Seattle is the same reason Mallett isn’t on the board – a lack of mobility.
And whoever is Seattle’s starting QB next year, I doubt they’ll earn as much as $10m for one season’s work. $7-8m is much more likely, and around $13m at the QB position is fair. The rookie deal can also be backloaded, remember.
I wonder what they’ll do when (not if) Smith and Pouncey are gone. If 4 quarterbacks are gone already, they need to take their guy and not risk him being gone by moving back a few picks. If only 3 are gone, will they risk moving back and hope that other teams value Mallett, Dalton, and Ponder more than Kaepernick, or does Carroll grade Dalton and Kaepernick closely enough to where it wouldn’t matter if one was gone because they would just take the other. I pray we aren’t the team that made the playoffs with a losing record AND has a ginger quarterback. I also wonder if we traded back to say 40 and both Dalton and Kaepernick are gone, who would we pick then? Maybe just trade back again? That’s likely the worst case scenario, with trading back and still getting Kaepernick being the best scenario. Not in my opinion, but the opinion of our FO.
Rob, is this a source that you can consistently ask questions or do you feel as though you don’t want to overuse his/her insights? I’d love to know what the “various reasons” are for being scared off by those linemen that you mentioned in the article. I’m very proud that our evaluators can see that Jimmy Smith is a more valuable pick than Amukamara. Do you know if he was available at 25 would we pull the trigger regardless of QB situation? That would give me/us insight as to whether this FO values positions or talent more. Congratulations on finding such a valuable source.
Hey Blake,
I would speculate (based on nothing I’ve been told) that it’ll be scheme for some of the players, health for others and character an issue too. As an example, I think it’s perfectly acceptable for the team to think Adrian Clayborn would be good value at #25. However, he’s also not a LEO rusher and with this health issue he has he may have to play RE for pretty much all of his career. Perhaps they were very impressed with Austin – like everyone was – at the combine and during work outs, but they can’t trust whether he’ll maximise those talents because that certainly wasn’t shown in college.
Again – just speculation on my behalf, but that’s what I’d project.
What I would say (see latest mock draft – April 23rd – on the blog now for more details) is that the team are not focused on one position. I think if Jimmy Smith is there, they’ll draft him. Too talented to pass. They seemingly really like Kaepernick, but I don’t get the impression from my source that he is their guy because there is more than one. As you say though, if the Pouncey’s and Smith’s are off the board there could be a situation where Kaepernick is top of the board at #25.
I appreciate it. Kip added another potential reason in his latest article regarding GB’s draft strategy- they believe the player will be good but does not directly fit their scheme, something that the Ruskell era could never grasp.