How athletic are T.J. Watt and Tyus Bowser?
They’re special. Not just in this draft class but also on a NFL level.
Khalil Mack special, in fact.
This hasn’t really been discussed, possibly because they ran middling forty times (Watt a 4.69, Bowser a 4.65). Yet they excelled in every other test. Watt scored a 140.4 in pSPARQ, Bowser a 142.7.
So what can we learn from their testing results?
Both are really quick over 10-yards
It isn’t very often that a linebacker is going to run forty yards in a straight line. The 10-yard splits and short area quickness drills are arguably more pertinent for linebackers, defensive linemen and offensive linemen.
A 10-yard split in the 1.5’s is considered elite. Both Watt and Bowser ran a 1.59. So while they might not be running like Von Miller over forty yards, they most definitely are over ten.
Here’s how they rank next to a collection of peers and NFL stars:
Sean Lee — 1.54
Anthony Barr — 1.57
Luke Kuechly — 1.57
Telvin Smith — 1.57
Bobby Wagner — 1.57
Jordan Willis — 1.57
Vic Beasley — 1.59
Tyus Bowser — 1.59
Haason Reddick — 1.59
T.J. Watt — 1.59
Lavonte David — 1.60
Von Miller – 1.62
Jamie Collins — 1.64
Thomas Davis — 1.64
Khalil Mack — 1.64
K.J. Wright — 1.66
Shaq Thompson — 1.69
Officially they are quicker over 10-yards than Von Miller and Khalil Mack. They’re in the same range as NFL studs like Bobby Wagner, Luke Kuechly and Vic Beasley. They ran the same split as potential top-15 pick Haason Reddick.
In the test of speed that arguably matters at their position, both players excelled.
Both have great agility
As noted in a recent article, the short shuttle appears to be crucial for linebackers (at least in Seattle). Bowser didn’t run a short shuttle at the combine but Watt recorded the fastest time by a linebacker (4.13) despite being the second heaviest (Ryan Anderson is one pound heavier than Watt).
Bowser did run the three cone, recording a 6.75 compared to Watt’s 6.79. Both scores ranked in the top five among linebackers.
So again, how does this compare to their peers?
Short shuttle
Thomas Davis — 4.01
Von Miller — 4.06
Shaq Thompson — 4.08
Luke Kuechly — 4.12
T.J. Watt — 4.13
Vic Beasley — 4.15
Sean Lee — 4.16
Khalil Mack — 4.18
Anthony Barr — 4.19
Lavonte David — 4.22
Bobby Wagner — 4.28
Jordan Willis — 4.28
Zach Cunningham — 4.29
Jamie Collins — 4.32
K.J. Wright — 4.35
Haason Reddick — 4.37
Telvin Smith — 4.57
Three cone
Von Miller — 6.70
Tyus Bowser — 6.75
T.J. Watt — 6.79
Anthony Barr — 6.82
Jordan Willis — 6.85
Sean Lee — 6.89
Vic Beasley — 6.91
Luke Kuechly — 6.92
Shaq Thompson — 6.99
Haason Reddick — 7.01
Zach Cunningham — 7.03
Telvin Smith — 7.04
Khalil Mack — 7.08
Jamie Collins — 7.10
Thomas Davis — 7.10
Bobby Wagner — 7.10
K.J. Wright — 7.21
Lavonte David — 7.28
Of the 18 names listed above, only three players ran a three cone in the 6.7’s — Von Miller, T.J. Watt and Tyus Bowser.
They were considerably quicker than a number of top linebackers (Sean Lee, Telvin Smith, Thomas Davis, Lavonte David, Jamie Collins) and were also quicker than Anthony Barr, Vic Beasley and Khalil Mack.
Watt’s short shuttle (4.13) is 0.44 seconds faster than Telvin Smith’s despite a 34lb weight disadvantage. He’s only 0.01 seconds slower than Luke Kuechly. The three other players that beat Watt in the short shuttle were Thomas Davis (230lbs), Von Miller (246lbs) and Shaq Thompson (228lbs). Watt is 252lbs.
Both are really explosive
The vertical and broad jumps measure explosive traits. Again, both Watt and Bowser tested extremely well with very similar numbers. Watt managed a 37 inch vertical and a 10-8 broad jump. Bowser recorded a 37.5 inch vertical and a 10-6 broad.
Vertical jump
Jamie Collins — 41.5
Vic Beasley — 41
Khalil Mack — 40
Bobby Wagner — 39.5
Jordan Willis — 39
Luke Kuechly — 38
Tyus Bowser — 37.5
Sean Lee — 37.5
Von Miller — 37
T.J. Watt — 37
Lavonte David — 36.5
Thomas Davis — 36.5
Haason Reddick — 36.5
Zach Cunningham — 35
Anthony Barr — 34.5
K.J. Wright — 34
Shaq Thompson — 33.5
Telvin Smith — 31.5
Broad jump
Jamie Collins — 11-7
Haason Reddick — 11-1
Bobby Wagner — 11-0
Vic Beasley — 10-10
Khalil Mack — 10-8
T.J. Watt — 10-8
Tyus Bowser — 10-6
Von Miller — 10-6
Anthony Barr — 10-5
Zach Cunningham — 10-5
Jordan Willis — 10-5
Luke Kuechly — 10-3
Sean Lee — 10-0
K.J. Wright — 10-0
Lavonte David — 9-11
Telvin Smith — 9-11
Shaq Thompson — 9-9
Thomas Davis — 9-7
It’s also important to take size into account. Some of the linebackers listed weigh between 220-230lbs — considerably lighter than both Watt and Bowser:
Anthony Barr — 255
Jordan Willis — 255
T.J. Watt — 252
Khalil Mack — 251
Jamie Collins — 250
Tyus Bowser — 247
Vic Beasley — 246
Von Miller — 246
K.J. Wright — 246
Luke Kuechly — 242
Bobby Wagner — 241
Haason Reddick — 237
Sean Lee — 236
Zach Cunningham — 234
Lavonte David — 233
Thomas Davis — 230
Shaq Thompson — 228
Telvin Smith — 218
So not only are Watt and Bowser testing favourably compared to their peers and the best linebackers in the NFL, they’re doing it in some cases with 20lbs of extra weight.
The only test where they aren’t performing at an extremely strong level is the forty yard dash:
Bobby Wagner — 4.46
Haason Reddick — 4.52
Telvin Smith — 4.52
Vic Beasley — 4.53
Von Miller — 4.53
Jordan Willis — 4.53
Luke Kuechly — 4.58
Thomas Davis — 4.60
Sean Lee — 4.60
Jamie Collins — 4.64
Shaq Thompson — 4.64
Tyus Bowser — 4.65
Lavonte David — 4.65
Khalil Mack — 4.65
Anthony Barr — 4.66
Zach Cunningham — 4.67
T.J. Watt — 4.69
K.J. Wright — 4.71
Even then, they’re in the same range as Anthony Barr and Khalil Mack. They just aren’t close to the times posted by Wagner, Reddick and Miller.
If the forty yard dash is less important at their position than the 10-yard split, short shuttle, three cone, broad jump and vertical jump — there’s a strong case to be made that Watt and Bowser are not just exceptional athletes in this draft class. They are exceptional athletes at a NFL level too.
Let’s isolate Khalil Mack. Here are his combine numbers compared to Watt and Bowser:
Ten yard splits
T.J. Watt — 1.59
Tyus Bowser — 1.59
Khalil Mack — 1.64
Short shuttle
T.J. Watt — 4.13
Tyus Bowser — DNP
Khalil Mack — 4.18
Three cone
T.J. Watt — 6.79
Tyus Bowser — 6.75
Khalil Mack — 7.08
Vertical jump
T.J. Watt — 37
Tyus Bowser — 37.5
Khalil Mack — 40
Broad jump
T.J. Watt — 10-8
Tyus Bowser — 10-6
Khalil Mack — 10-8
Forty yard dash
T.J. Watt — 4.69
Tyus Bowser — 4.65
Khalil Mack — 4.65
Mack is superior to both in one test — the vertical jump. That’s it.
Even in terms of production there’s not a great deal of difference. Here’s how they performed during their final season of college football:
Khalil Mack (2013) — 10.5 sacks, 18 TFL’s
Tyus Bowser (2016) — 8.5 sacks, 12 TFL’s (in just eight games)
T.J. Watt (2016) — 11.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL’s
Production, physical profile, explosive traits, short area quickness — all comparable between Mack, Watt and Bowser.
It’d be naive to suggest any player with Mack’s physical profile is going to mimic his pro career. That isn’t realistic. The purpose of this piece and the comparison is to assess the level of Watt and Bowser’s ceiling.
It’s interesting to contemplate, however, how Watt and Bowser would be judged had they had the same kind of consistent college career. Mack had an accomplished four-year stint at Buffalo and gradually honed his craft. He chose not to declare as a junior after receiving feedback from the advisory committee and had a textbook progression from college player to pro.
Watt was a one-year starter at Wisconsin after switching positions from tight end. Bowser was a basketball player who transitioned to football. Both players suffered debilitating injuries.
So while they have similar athletic profiles, unlike Mack they may require further development (and time) before reaching their potential.
You’ll also notice Jordan Willis’ name high on a lot of the lists. He might be more of a pure EDGE rather than a flexible SAM/LEO with the potential to play inside in the 4-3 under — but he’s another name certainly worth monitoring. I haven’t spent as much time on him as I’d like. He’s on a list of priorities for this week.
Seahawks updates
Seattle added two new free agents today — offensive lineman Oday Aboushi and linebacker Arthur Brown. They re-signed Luke Willson and Deshawn Shead to one-year deals. They’ll meet with defensive tackle Ricky Jean-Francois on Sunday and met today with offensive tackle Ryan Clady.
Assuming someone Snipes Watt before 26 I could live with
1 Obi
2 King
2 Bowser
3 Dalvin T
3 Duwane Smoot / vince biegel
5 John Johnson
6 Robert davies
7 Grover stewart
Are both of these linebackers bottom of R1 and top of R2 picks? We’d either have to go LB at 26 or trade down to the mid-30’s and hope one of the two is still there?
The more you talk about Watt, the more I like him. Not only does he have the athleticism to play any of the 3 LB positions, but he has the size and length to line up at LEO/OTTO. In fact, he’s pretty much the same size as Irvin, even a shade taller/heavier.
Not sure where he goes in the draft, but he’s at least a top 45 pick, and I’m not sure I prefer him to Obi. Seems like an either/or scenario. I guess he gives SEA the flexibility to trade down from 26 if they find a willing partner in the early R2 range. They probably miss on Obi but still have a chance to get Watt.
Also, FWIW, I prefer Watt to Bowser. I like Bowser a lot; I think he has a high ceiling. Just think Watt is a smarter, more evolved player. In fact, I think Watt has the intelligence to play MIKE and make the calls on defense. I wonder if SEA would consider moving Wagz outside where his superior speed could be put to good use, and let Watt man the middle.
That’d be some LB corps. I’d call them the Triple Double(U) – Wagz-Wright-Watt.
I would dig the LB Law Firm or Wagner, Wright & Watt.
I like Watts size a lot with that type of short area quickness – PETE wants to stop the run and a big, fast linebacker with powerful hands to tackle and shed with would be a welcome addition! My wet dream scenario is King (Obi as a nice consolation) trade up in 2nd to grab either Bowser or Watt, and then whatever else would be gravy after those two picks!!!
Great info once again, this time on LB’s. With Brown coming in, is M Morgan gone? Aboushi is young; I hope he is treated with respect in Seattle, on and off the field.
Brown possibly replaces Brock Coyle. Mike Mo is probably always going to be there at an affordable price. They need to draft 1-2 LB’s too.
I remember being high on Arthur Brown when he came into the league. Anyone have any input on why he hasn’t panned out to this point? I know he’s been banged up, but how has he played when he’s been on the field?
I don’t have your answer, but yeah…Brown was supposed to be the heir apparent to Ray Lewis. Was hailed as another solid-Baltimore pick
I’m 100% on board with Watt. Considering how this team has drafted in recent years, it’s a no brainer to me to nail our first rounder, who can contribute now whilst also having the upside to grow into an even bigger impact (on and off the field).
There are hardly any no brainer picks, but Watt seems to check all the boxes for me. He can play all 3 downs, multiple positions, at a position of need while providing depth at other spots.
Again, Seattle *has to* nail this draft. They can ill-afford to squander another year where we struggle to find contributors. This really does feel like a turning point year where the Hawks need to start laying the next generations foundation. IMO, a guy like Watt can eventually be “the guy” on a talented Seahawks defense.
I like both these FA signings. Remember them both very well from college.
Brown can backup all 3 spots and replaces Coyle, unless they sign Wilhoite, and can take over for KPL and/or Mike Morgan.
Aboushi gives us really solid depth.
Anyone notice the trend with these FA signings?
Youth. These are the youngest FAs you can get. 2013 draft class.
Not only the youngest FA class . . . They were among the last of the high school recruits that Pete would have had working knowledge of . . .
Young and 1 year deals , right?
Well the 1 year deals, yes. But they’re all from the same draft class.
Posted it in the Sherman trade post before I realised that Rob posted this gem but Texans fans think that Aboushi is actually a serviceable guard that can play either left (preferred) or right. Could be a low-key great pick up.
Watt is easily the better Day 1 player for mine but Bowser might have a slightly higher ceiling. Either would be a great pick for the Seahawks though. If we don’t select either with our native pick at #26 I think it would take a considerable trade up into the second to secure Bowser – Watt is probably long gone by that stage.
You can easily justify taking either at #26 though (or with a slight trade back) with the depth at corner back and safety in this draft.
Watt is one of those players where he could easily go top-25 or be there at 45. Really hard to judge based on tape. But athletically he has insane potential.
If we take Watt/Bowser in the first/second and project them to the SAM/LEO role in a full-strength line-up, where would be your sweet spot to add a second linebacker in the draft?
Vince Siegel 4-5th rd imo
IMO Biegel will go earlier than that
Interesting snippet on Biegel I read also from insidethepylon.com:
“Wisconsin’s Vince Biegel had a really nice day and should be getting more chatter as the draft approaches. He’s out of control and unpolished on tape, but he’s a good athlete who could become a stud with the right coaching. Biegel’s numbers were strong across the board, including top-notch agility drills that suggest high-caliber pliability he didn’t get to show often on tape. He plays hard, fast, and physical so if the Wisconsin senior can develop a plan of attack and improve his processing speed as a rusher, his best football could be ahead of him.”
Beigle will never make it to the 4th, or 5th for that matter. Very underrated player. One can’t go by the Mock’s you see out there. I have been scouting him for three year’s and in most draft’s he wouldn’t make it out of the 2nd. He won’t make it out of the 3rd this year. IMO
R3
I was being ignorantly optimistic.
These two are definitely moving up my Seahawks wishlist.
Do you think they’ll end up going earlier than current mocks project or is late 1st/2nd still your expectation?
I think their range is probably 25-45.
Come on 5 QB’s in the top 40!
I think Tyus Bowser may be a better option simply because he’s likely to fall a bit further and has played more snaps in coverage.
Rob,
Just find it funny that years later we finally land the LB we all talked about (along with Khaseem Greene) leading up to the 2013 draft.
Not saying I expect him to be the LB we talked about back then but I hope he succeeds here.
Fantastic article.
I really enjoy detailed athletic reads like this. As you mentioned, both Watt and Bowser require more development. I’ve also read similar. Ex:
On Watt via insidethepylon.com: “He has a long way to go as a pass rusher from a technical and mental perspective”
NDT Scouting liked Bowser a lot, but (paraphrase from podcast) “felt he didn’t fight through traffic and trash with enough intensity/effort and would refrain from playing all the way though plays if initially blocked or impeded”
Obviously all the tools are there for both players and hardest for us to factor is learning curve, coachability, and a development forecast/timeline. Lack of experience, as mentioned above, gives us unrefined but potentially top-notch NFL starter caliber players in either one. Does this mean 2nd round grades are more likely? College production over time seems to impact the more risk averse teams (see: Tim Ruskell).
Is it possible either are there at our normal 2nd round pick – or that we’d trade up for one of them? It seems 26 is too rich for some. Hopefully we don’t have the decision to make, in having one of Bolles, Reddick, King, Obi, or a top corner make it to us. However, it does seem that either would make sense in a trade down scenario, as well.
I think Basham is a player who isn’t getting enough attention. You know NFL team’s are doing their homework on him though. Love his game and work ethic. Very system sound.
Great. First you convinced me the team NEEDS to somehow get both King an Obi… now I’m convinced the team NEEDS to forget about them and take both of these guys.
Wasn’t Arthur Brown a SDB favorite back in his draft year?
I think we cooled on him leading up to that draft, but yes at one point he was
I had hoped that Bowser might slip to our Round 2 pick because of his limited experience and injury past. He would make an ideal consolation prize for passing on Watt at 26 to pick King or Obi. I am pretty confidant that at least one of Davis, King, Obi or Watt will be there at 26.
Assuming no trade-up, who are some of the DE, LB and DBs you see available in Round 2?
Derek Rivers is a guy I have my eye on:
Derek Rivers, Youngstown State
“What a terrific pre-draft process it has been for Rivers, who dominated at the Senior Bowl, came off as a high character, hard worker with leadership skills in interviews, and wowed at the Combine with some impressive testing. A 4.61 40 (93rd percentile), 6.94 three cone (90th percentile), 10’3” broad jump (88th percentile), 35-inch vertical jump (74th percentile) and 30 bench reps (88th percentile) helped move Rivers securely into the first round conversation, especially when coupled with his exceptional college tape. He should interest a number of 4-3 and 3-4 teams in the 20-40 pick range come draft weekend.”
Yea, I like Rivers too. Another 3rd rounder? Just goes to show you how deep this class is. The way the Hawks have been Inking O- lineman it look’s like it’s going to be a top heavy on defense.
Actually I think Rivers will go in the 2nd. Could he be a borderline 1st. Time will tell….
Agreed
Saw this quote on him in an NFLDraftScout article, thought it was cool:
Speaking to a scout in attendance, he glowing spoke about the YSU pass rusher: “My pitch for Derek to my boss won’t be hard: We need this guy on our team — not want — need.”
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2017-nfl-draft-youngstown-state-pass-rushers-attract-25-nfl-teams-at-pro-day/
” defensive class”
Great articles Rob! Your the Man!!!! How do you find the time? 🙂
Rob has the uncanny capability of researching and writing while he sleeps.
Lots happened today! Smart deals, for Willson in particular. Liked Arthur Brown Jr. coming out
Of course theyd trade him for the RIGHT deal.
Stir the pot, guy
Question… do you think teams would pass on Garrett Bolles because of his age? He is 24 and will be 25 when the season starts.
The Browns took Brandon Weeden in the first round a couple of years ago at 28 years of age. I think Okung was 23 (Bolles 24) when we drafted him. If you’re good – you’ll get drafted early. Some GMs with terrible offensive tackles are going to get fired if they don’t win this year. If anything – Bolles being a year older and more mature is probably more appealing for a couple particular GMs = instant impact. The Seahawks drafted Bruce Irvin at 24 years of age, too.
Bruce Irvin was drafted at age 24 and he turned 25 in the season as well. We know the Seahawks aren’t afraid.
I think it’d be a huge mistake. Some might make it, but hard to imagine 20 or so teams will. If he plays for seven years he’ll play to 32. That’s a good career.
SEA kicking the tires on another Portland State DB – Xavier Coleman, 5-10 190lbs, 4.48 40yd, 40″ VJ, 10’5″ BJ, 4.13 SS, 6.86 3C and 17 BP.
Scheduled for a pre-draft VMAC visit.
Rob, This is one of your best articles. And there have been many.
One thing Schneider talks about not knowing with draft prospects is their guts, passion for football, football IQ, work ethic, etc. That is the big unknown and an area he has admitted to leading him to make previous scouting mistakes in life.
Factor all the physical/athletic boxes that Watt checks and combined with grit/passion and if ever there was a “can’t miss” prospect – it’s Watt, imo.
Watt is a guy who can be a Pro Bowl Mike. Personally, I think his best position is Leo. Seriously – how many guys can we think of who are that versatile in terms of odds of being great at different spots? Even if he “busted” at one position, the odds of busting somewhere totally different (Mike vs. Leo) are small.
I see no potential for Bobby Wagner to be a Pro Bowl Leo. I see no potential for Frank Clark to be starting with Luke Kuechly at MLB in the Pro Bowl in a couple of years. Watt is so unique. Not only is he a “safe” pick, but they sky really is the limit in terms of his potential, wherever his best pro position turns out to be.
For what it’s worth, I see Pro Bowl potential Pro Bowl at Will, too.
Normally, when your first pick isn’t until the 20s-30s you don’t get to pick players like this. And now this year there are guys like Obi and King to choose from, too. One of them has to be at #26.
I think Obi has the biggest chance to make the most impact in year one. I think King fills the biggest immediate need. I think Watt is the safest and will end his career with the most Pro Bowls.
If only there was a way to get 2-3 of these guys!
100% agree about Watt. Ironically, this is a great year to be picking in the 20s. You kinda just get a chance to let the right guy fall to you.
“I think Obi has the biggest chance to make the most impact in year one. I think King fills the biggest immediate need. I think Watt is the safest and will end his career with the most Pro Bowls.”
Really well said!
At the very top of the draft there are players who you have to take regardless of need because they’re special. How far down the draft board does that go. How many are no brainers? Put another way, within the first round, what are the groupings where players are roughly equivalent so you can choose according to need?
I’ll start:
Group 1: Garrett, Thomas
Group 2: Adams, Fournette, Riddick, Hooker, Foster
Group 3: Allen, Lattimore, Watt, Bolles, Howard
Group 4: Humphrey, Charlton, Conley, Peppers, J.Davis, King, Njoku, McCaffrey
Group 5: Harris, McKinley, Baker, Ramczyk, Melifonwu, White, Ross
Group 7: Lamp, Barnett, Wilson, Tabor, Williams, Kamara
Group 8: Cook, Jackson, Willis, C.Davis, Robinson, Engram
Sprinkle QBs Watson, Mahomes, Kaizer, and Trubisky as desired.
I totally agree with this breakdown, very nice!
No Launi?
Not in the first round.
That’s a pretty good way to group the first round talent. I’m lower on Ramczyk just a bit and higher on Ross, Melifonwu, and Kamara by your listing by about one grouping. I have a hard time gauging Ramczyk based on limited exp plus lack of testing. At least with Bolles you get the game tape and the great testing to kind of suss out where he fits.
OL is at such a premium that it’s hard to judge where they fit. Assigning someone to the top ten should be means a player is special in any draft, not just this one which is very light on OL quality. How many of these Oliners would be a first day selection in a draft that was flush with OL talent? Maybe just Bolles.
Arthur Brown. Pick 56 in 2013. The pick Seahawks traded back from and then took Christine Michael….
Think this is a big upgrade for Seahawks Linebackers. Brown was brought in to Baltimore to do an impossible task, replace Ray Lewis. He showed coverage skills and consistent effort, but who could do that job? In our scheme, he’d have a chance to fill roles and play with discipline. I think he excels. Clearly more upside than Morgan/Coyle/KPL.
I think my neighbor has more potential that Coyle or KPL. That’s not a compliment.
Although I’ve never been a huge Morgan fan, you could most definitely tell when he was on the field (in a good way for the Seahawks) vs. the few times that Coyle or KPL were. I’d like to have Morgan back because he is good on ST and he is the definition of quality depth. Coyle and KPL were only depth because they had warm bodies.
Man. Wow. What a fantastic arcticle. Congratulations, Rob.
Anyone have an opinion on UNC Charlotte DT Larry Ogunjobi?
Pauline reports he had a strong pro day.
He had a decent Combine for a guy going 6-3 305lbs – 4.97 40yd, 32″ VJ, 9’7″ BJ, 26 BP.
Zierlein comps him to Sheldon Rankins, says he has the ability to get upfield quickly.
If Seattle wants a get up field type, I think it could be a pretty logical Day 2 target. They seem to be focused on bigger bodied DTs, though.
Man, this really highlights how crazy athletic Bobby is.
I like Aboushi and Joeckel better than Webb and Sowell from last year. Both seem younger, a bit more athletic and higher upside than those two.
I like getting a guy named Oday on St. Patrick’s day
I remember in the preseason last year how much better Kache Palacio looked over Coule and Pierre Louis. Any chance he makes the roster this year?
He is still on the roster.
Arthur Brown from the archives
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/some-thoughts-on-kansas-state-linebacker-arthur-brown
This could be a very underrated signing
Hmmmm….
“We spent a lot of time trying to piece a pass rusher into the existing defense – and we were right to focus on that position as it turns out. However, we were looking at turning a DE or rush LB into a SAM and moving K.J. Wright inside. And that was clearly never the idea.”
“I need to highlight and learn from mistakes to make this a better blog. That was a big one.”
And that, folks, is how SDB has become what it is today.
*Tips hat to Rob*
+1
I’d really like adding Kamar Aiken or Francois now.
Just looking at that, how did Bobby last into the second round? What a monster.
I wonder if a trade down to grab Watt is in order? I seem to remember reading some pull quote from a Steelers staffer saying they thought he wouldn’t be there for their second round pick, but that he was probably be a bit too rich to take with their first. That’s about where I’m at on him tbh. I’d be a bit ‘ehhhhhhh I guess’ at 26, but if we could take him somewhere in the 30s while picking up an extra 3rd I’d be a pretty happy boy.
Trade down and he’ll be gone.
Agree with Hawkward Talk. If you trade down. Watt will be off the board.
Why? After our pick at 26, the draft order goes:
27: Chiefs
28: Cowboys
29: Packers
30: Steelers
31: Falcons
32: Saints
33: Browns
34: 49ers
35: Jacksonville Jaguars
36: Chicago Bears
None of those teams look like great fits. The Steelers have already said they aren’t interested in using a first on him, although I guess that could be a smokescreen? The Packers? Maybe? The Falcons are likely going to want to develop the kids they have, the Saints have bigger needs, the Niners won’t trade with the Hawks you’d think, and then who of the Browns/Jags/Bears is really likely to move up just to grab Watt, or even to take him if he falls? Could maybe see the Jags doing it if they really want to double down on getting super high character guys in, but honestly Watt’s tape isn’t all that. He’s still got plenty to work on. I reckon he falls to the mid 40s where the Bills, Cardinals, and Colts pick in a row – think he’d do well for any of them.
Every one of those teams could take Watt.
Sure, or they could all take someone else.
I honestly don’t think he’s shown enough in such a stacked draft to make declarative statements about when he’ll go for sure. A lot of the recent hype he’s getting is based on his athletic profile and name, not what he’s actually done.
Maybe I’m wrong and he’ll be a superstar at the next level, but from what I’ve seen he’s one of a handful of good players who I’d be happy to pick up, but not devastated to lose out on.
I can totally see the Packers or Steelers taking him. The Steelers love drafting LBs in the first round. They take more LBs in round one than anyone in like 20-30 years. And being the Wisconsin kid with the Packers losing Peppers – I totally see them jumping on Watt and taking advantage of the DB depth in round two.
Wagner had a serious illness during the combine and tore it up during his pro day. THANK GOODNESS for us
And thank goodness the Eagles went with Mychal Kendricks ahead of us despite the big reaction on Seahawks.com’s live draft feed by Pete and John. Many folks thought we got sniped at the time. Wagner is an amazing player and was the best ILB in all of football last year.
Plus he played at Utah ST. so was seriously underrated or at the time many thought Seattle had overrated him by quite a bit.
Lots of reasons. There’s only 32 picks in the 1st round. Not every great athlete is a day 1 pick. Lots of teams probably thought he was too small, which is ridiculous, and some teams don’t value MLBs highly.
Rob,
I thought I was a draft fan several years ago because i looked at rankings from ESPN, and so on. When the Seahawks picked Bruce Irvin in the first round that year, I almost threw myself out of a window because i didn’t know who the hell he was. The Seahawks went full Al Davis!
Maybe if i had actually spent some time looking at other players other than those who were supposed to go in the first round, i would have had a very different reaction. I didn’t do any homework, so I reacted like an uniformed person would.
I’m more of an NFL draft fan more than ever, and it’s because of you and Kenny are providing this information that, when the commissioner reads that name out, I can say “Good pick! Here’s why:….”
I did a mock as a fan post on Fieldgulls.com that year, mocking Irvin to Seattle. In the 2nd round. I though his burst and speed, especially his 10 yard split, were exactly what we needed and would go for over the bigger slower rushers like Upshaw, for example. Where we took Irvin was a bit of a surprise, but if you really want a player don’t screw it up: go get him.
I hope we don’t over think things if King or other potentially elite CB is on the board. I’d also take Corey Davis in a heartbeat. I’m warming to some other guys, but still not on board with much at LB for 26 to this point. Obi yes.
You’re in the minority I suppose, but I agree with you about a guy like Davis. It’s a big look back from earlier in the draft season but even with the Willson resigning I wonder if that’s a hedge towards getting a guy like Njoku. Or Davis?
My gut tells me that all these signings are so Seattle can go all out on Defense. But there’s still a tiny inkling that these signings are so Seattle has smokescreens and bases covered to go after whoever is the best at 26.
I could get excited about Njoku at 26. He’s an absolute matchup nightmare.
26: R1P26
EDGE T.J. WATT
WISCONSIN
58: R2P26
CB CORDREA TANKERSLEY
CLEMSON
90: R3P26
S JOSH JONES
NC STATE
102: R3P38
CB SIDNEY JONES
WASHINGTON
106: R3P42
G ISAAC ASIATA
UTAH
210: R6P26
DL JOSH TUPOU
COLORADO
226: R7P8
LB JIMMIE GILBERT
COLORADO
Pete Carroll gets his Watt, and then finds a scrappy corner in Tankersley. R3, they take an athletic safety, and then do a really cool thing in drafting Sidney Jones, an outliner in terms of preferred length, giving him a redshirt year. Asiata makes them loaded at guard.
They take two Buffs in Tupou and Gilbert, and call the draft a smashing success.
I like Jones but I have doubts that Seattle budges on the arm length criteria. They could. But I guess I don’t see how he fits. I wonder after Rob and Kenny’s last podcast how effective it is to hope a player comes back from something as serious as an Achilles tear. Players have for sure but it seems that Seattle could get someone to play this year and not hold out on a recovery.
RE: Jones- No risk it, no biscuit!
One thing I factored was that they took Rees Odhiambo who clearly wasn’t recovered from his injury in R3. I think the length might be an issue, but I thought all season long she had a gritty Seahawky style to his game. I wonder if they thought that, as well.
I don’t think there’s really much harm in taking that chance. Even if Jones never plays I doubt that one comp pick in the third is something we look back on and say “man they should have got player ‘x’ instead.”
The arm length thing is fascinating to me, apparently no All-Pro corner has ever had shorter than 32″ arms which is just extraordinary. Will half an inch really make that much difference to a guy who was considered a surefire top-15 talent? Maybe if he has the wingspan, but not quite the arm length? An achilles is a brutal injury though, you’ll hear plenty of anecdotal evidence about it just sapping the explosiveness some guys have.
Still, Seattle have one of the best sports science set-ups in the country – Adderall aided or not. We’d have as good a chance as anyone of getting him back to his best.
If Trent Baalke was still at the Niners, I’d say he was almost a lock to go to them. Just the sort of injury fall reclamation project he loved.
I caught Carroll on the radio the other day talking about the achilles and Jones. You could hear the disappointment in his voice he had for the player, but it was interesting to hear him talk about that injury. i believe he said that there is a lot that they don’t know about why these injuries happen and the team has experienced it with their own players and the injuries occurring in almost freaky like ways. Now that I think about it, the tone of his voice could be an indication that they would pass on a player who is dealing with this.
As for the arm length, that is fascinating no All-Pro has ever had sub 32″ arms. They seem pretty strict about length at certain positions, and there’s probably really good reasoning behind it. Having a top scoring defense for how man years now? It’s tough to argue against their philosophy.
Maybe not all-pro, but Marcus peters arms were shorter than 32″ correct? I would have to see the stats. I find it hard to believe that none had less than 32″ arms. But it would be interesting. Regardless, a pro-bowl DB is still really good, they don’t have to all be all-pros, especially 3rd rounders.
That’s very true. Seattle really seems to be a stickler for that length. While I think they traded for sub 32″ Marcus Burley, they have yet to draft a player under that threshold. With this deep class, it will be interesting to see if that remains the case.
It’s multiple 1st team all-pro that have been consistently 32 inch arms, not just one-time all pro.
C-Dog I think Josh Jones is going to go in the 2nd round. Jones is 6’2. Hits a ton. Has a passion for the game. However don’t know enough about Jones in pass coverage. Jones hits like Kam Chancellor.
I think you definitely could be right on that, RWIII. Pretty impressive combine and a league full of teams probably looking for their Chancellor.
I think Jones is a stud, not sure why he’s not getting more buzz. Tremendous athlete with great size.
Awesome stuff, Rob. I greatly appreciate the work you put in all year around to make this a must visit site daily. Aside from LB talk, how do you feel about Justin Evans? He’s been mentioned before but he’s growning on me. I know he didn’t run at the combine but he had a good senior bowl (from what I’ve read) and hit the arm length mark. His game reminds me of Earl quite a bit. Hits like a missile and plays at full speed.
Fierce hitter, can be too aggressive at times and whiff on tackles (which Earl does occasionally). Fantastic athlete. Really like him. Could go in R1.
I saw a mock yesterday (Draftwire?) that had Evans going in R3!
😂😂😂
Think: Karl Joseph
Watched the Hawks game versus the Jets from last season. Clady held up well throughout the game. He mostly faced off against Clark, Marsh, and Bennett. Clady dominated Marsh and held up against Clark mostly well. Only Bennett gave him consistent trouble, but nothing even close to the trouble Fant would routinely cause. Of course Clady’s played LT for probably a decade between College and NFL so there’s really no contest between him and Fant. In pass pro Clady looks solid, with a good anchor and doesn’t get pushed back by bull rushes often. In run blocking he looks stiff and doesn’t exactly provide good push. He benefited greatly last year from having a road grader like Carp next to him. Given his injury history I don’t think they should sign him. I’d only be okay signing him for a one year deal with little to nothing guaranteed until he makes the 53 man roster and incentives for being active on game day.
Hmmm, I wonder who just mocked exactly this happening a couple days ago…
An NFC pro personnel director tells Lance Zierlein that he wouldn’t be surprised to see Temple LB Haason Reddick come off the board before Alabama’s Reuben Foster.
“It won’t surprise me if (Temple LB Haason) Reddick comes off the board before (Alabama LB Reuben) Foster,” personnel director said. “I like Foster a lot and I think he’s the better player of the two, but Reddick is bigger than Foster and is a legit rusher on the edge, too. Anytime you have someone who can rush the quarterback, they get pushed up the board.”
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000793712/article/exec-haason-reddick-could-go-before-reuben-foster-in-draft?campaign=tw-cf-sf63679170-sf63679170
LT: Joeckel, Fant
LG: Glowinski, Aboushi (camp battle)
C: Britt, Hunt
RG: Ifedi, Odhiambo
RT: Gilliam, Giacomini
I hope they wait another week or 2 and then offer Breno vet minimum. I bet he’d take it just cause he knows we’ll give him a shot to play.
You had to do it didn’t you…
I fell for Bowser when we started talking about Reddick.
When Reddick was gaining ground I found Watt as my Bowser compatible.
I was sitting quietly not making any noises and kipping my fingers crossed. When their 40 times ended safely in the 4.6s I was happy that at least one if not both will be there late in the 2nd round or maybe even the 3rd.
And then the rest of the scores came…and now this…
I want one of those guys badly. I want them in our NASCAR package. I want them as LEO/SAM. I want them more than Obi or King…and now I know it’s another draft crush pipe dream.
I find it hard to justify pulling the trigger on one of those guys as our first pick in the draft and they will not be there when we pick again.
Dream crusher….
Rob thank you for your last article is gives me much to think about.my question for you is playing corner as a rookie in the seahawks system is a tough you have to be physical and aggressive and you have to know that the ball is coming at you about 10 times a game or at least pretty close learn there technique.and as much as I like these corners in this draft.it is a tall order.to maintain the seahawks expectations.especially a first round pick.
It’ll be a tall order for sure. And maybe there is someone on the roster already but if PC says DB is a need you have to think that they aren’t totally sold on what they have in waiting right now. There’s flashes from Elliot and they re-upped Thorpe. But with Shead’s injury it looks increasingly likely that regardless of first round pick or late round pick there is a good chance that rookie will be playing CB on week one.
I think you make a very valid point. I think it takes time to learn the technique. A rookie, R1 or later, might not start. It’s something to consider.
The same applies IMO to rookie offensive linemen starting for a ZBS OL and the Seahawks pick and start those players in the first year anyway…
You might think that but the team doesn’t clearly. And they’ve only started a rookie CB in seven years when they’ve been forced to.
Exactly. Shead’s injury forces them to make a choice. Either play Elliot or Thorpe or trust the job to a rookie.
I understand that this rookie would need to be pretty special to get that role. If they are not confident starting the guys they already have for a long stretch until Shead is ready to play, they may need to rely on that special rookie to get the job done. It’s the perfect incentive to get the best guy you can get early in the draft.
They never drafted a CB before the 4th round and never started a rookie.
They will probably need to break rule 1 to be able to break rule 2.
It’s entirely possible they move Jeremy Lane outside and either start a newly drafted SAM, big nickel or trust someone like Perrish Cox, Elliott or Thorpe in the slot.
That could be one plan at least until a rookie or Shead is ready to start.
Rob, you really need to stop making we want Watt so badly! It’s detrimental to the team. The last guy I wanted this badly was Aaron Donald – I don’t think I could stomach Watt ending up on the Rams. Thank goodness they wasted this years 1st rounder on a garbage QB, still it’s just not worth the risk
Rob excellent piece. Though I think a case could be made for either one of these players to play EDGE and I think their ceilings are about equal when you take into consideration limited playing exp., injury, etc.
Based on PC’s comments I wonder how seriously they would be looking at taking a LB that could play outside but also spell Wagner, Wright? I like Watt’s potential but playing MIKE? There’s too little tape for me to see to think that’s a possibility. Length/size/speed + none of the field general knowledge makes for a great edge rusher.
I’m pretty intrigued to see what drills Jarrad Davis does at his pro-day. I think Seattle really needs someone who can cover, track the ball carrier, and if need be spell Wagner on plays or in different sub packages. Granted it’s just game tape so “field speed,” and all that but he looks quick as heck to me in short distances and looks like he has the speed to cover receivers on slants and crossing patterns.
Davis is one of my favorite players in this draft. I just don’t know about drafting him when we already have Wagner and KJ. Unless it’s a LB who can rush the QB I think we have bigger needs. Davis has also been injured quite a bit. Freak issues or long term durability concerns?
Cool info on TJ Watt and Tyus Bowser..good stuff!
Always starting the trend Rob, fantastic. I think you should make a name for you new hypothesis. I think like TEF, it could be a number they look at and base value on it. The other big thing would be instincts. You don’t have to run a 4.5 if you have instincts off the charts. Someone with 4.7 speed can get to a hole faster with 10/10 instincts than a 4.5 guy with 7/10 instincts. So many guys you have blog fans clamoring for (Reddick/Obi/Bolles/Bowser/Davis) before they got mainstream!!
My two cents:
Unless Reddick/Obi/King are there, trade back (if possible) at least 5-10 spots, because I think you can still get some talent that could compete for playing time in the 3rd/4th.
Watt
Tankersley
Douglas
Luani
Asiata
Bowser
Awuzai
Witherspoon
Biegel
Kittle
All players I would be happy if the Hawks got. I would like to see them come away with
2 CB (at least 1 to start)
2 S (at least 1 to help right away)
2 LB (at least 1 to start)
1 WR (for depth 2018)
1 TE (for depth 2018)
1 OL (for depth 2018)
1 DT (rotational)
Seahawks & Raiders worked out C. Arkansas CB Tyler Williams at his pro day.
6’1, 190-194 lbs.- 4 INTs, 23 PBU!
* they also scouted C. Arkansas twice this year
I’m also wondering, the scouted OK St. 3 x’s this year, if the guy they’re looking at is CB Ashton Lampkin.
Oklahoma ST. potential players of interest may indeed be;
CB-Ashton Lampkin, RB-Chris Carson, TE-Blake Jarwin, S-Jordan Stearns, DT-Vincent Taylor.
I think they may have 1 or 2 of these guys on their radar perhaps as fallback options, we known they cover their bases well.
CB-Tyler Williams(NR), Central Arkansas, 6-1/194
13-games: 23-PBU, 4-INT & Tyler Williams was #1 in FCS in total passes defended @ 2.1/per game.
The Seahawks know how to dig really deep into potential players, even in the FCS. Likely an UDFA, but
there might be something there that could work out making him a steal.
Thought I’d post this in-depth analysis of Kamar Aiken’s 2015 season, since they’re bringing him in for a visit:
http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-kamar-aiken-is-the-answer-to-the-ravens-receiver-riddle.html
I’m actually impressed, I thought it was just volume-driven production and lack of a better option, but he actually excelled in a lot of areas. Sounds like a better, faster version of Kearse. Wasn’t a Kearse hater, but clearly we can do better, and I doubt they can coexist on the roster, so it’s telling that the FO has shown interest…
If SEA cut Kearse on or after June 1 they save $2.2M against the cap. Not huge, but not insignificant either.
Sign Aiken, cut Kearse.
1. Baldwin
2. Aiken
3. Richardson
4. Lockett
5. McEvoy
Agreed all around. Would make us better, I don’t think there’s a question about it. He should be affordable, in fact whatever savings we get from Kearse is probably his cieling anyway, so it should essentially cost us nothing to do. Two years, $4.5MM?
I hope we trade Kearse, someone brought up trading him and a 3rd for Shon Coleman, i liked that idea. I think the peak we could get for Kearse is a 5th rounder which in my opinion is worth it. Especially for a team like Cleveland with so many draft picks
Absolutely no way someone gives us a mid round pick and promising OL player for a mediocre UDFA WR who has never put up good numbers
I think Del tre meant SEA trade Kearse + one of their R3 picks to CLE for Shon Coleman. Or trade Kearse alone for one of CLE’s R5 picks.
Yep thats exactly what i meant. I don’t see Kearse as a highly valuable player but he could be a veteran presence in a still mediocre receiver room in Cleveland. I know we wouldn’t be able to get Coleman for that little, but a third rounder is really valuable so the value of Kearse and a third ought to be comprable to Coleman.
Agreed, his trade value is less than zero, we’d be the ones giving up a draft pick like HOU with Osweiler. Still think kearse is valuable, just no trade value.
I have an overall feeling that Pete Carroll is more serious about rebuilding the team this year (versus thinking they can just make a pick or two to maintain the team). This based mostly on his comments about defensive needs and free agent picks. I know that he tries every year, but the Seahawks have definitely missed on some critical picks, last year being the left tackle position. So I’m much happier with their activities this year. Even when half won’t pan out= at least the effort is there. If they can start by rebuilding linebackers and secondary – and that will take at least 3 picks – then it will be a great effort. Free agent wise they are already making a strong attempt to reload the offensive line. So I am very optimistic about the future of the Seahawks.
Go Hawks!
How did they miss on the left tackle position last year??
The only thing I can think of is not giving Okung $8 million last year.
Did Okung even want to be in Seattle anymore? He took a deal that everyone knew was basically a one-year prove it deal – I doubt the Seahawks didn’t have some kind of offer that went up against that.
What Rob said. In order to “miss,” you’ve got to have a pitch to swing at, and I can’t think of a single left tackle on the open market/in the draft that was available for the Seahawks to pick up.
Good point.
On the other hand, building a competitive roster is not a pitch and swing. Its multiyear plans.
That plan should have had a LT solution if they were going to let Okung go.
Whatever their plan was I can safely say it was not an UDFA that never played football before.
So yes, they missed on the whole LT thing last year.
It’s clear what their plan was. In fact it was spelled out. They really liked Garry Gilliam and believed he would be a natural replacement for Okung. And when he was given the opportunity to claim that job he blew it. I suspect the team were bitterly disappointed about that. His play at RT in 2015 hinted the plan at least had some sense to it.
That is exactly what I was trying to say!
But they did have a plan Alaska.
The point of my comment was that I see a greater effort to improve the team this year, versus drafting a few replacements and holding at the same level last year. I feel that PC is making a much larger effort to find free agents that will start and fill positions on the offensive line (since the draft is strong defensively). I don’t care to get into another discussion about why the offensive line is so bad. I only care that the Seahawks are taking steps to fix it.
But they might’ve signed Joeckel last year had he been available. I just think there’s a lot of comments about what the Seahawks haven’t done on the O-line or how they made mistakes without fully appreciating the situation that presented itself.
Yes. It’s like some people analyzing the Seahawks’ moves only note the Seahawks. The Seahawks can’t do anything unless they have a willing partner.
(for instance)
Pauline reports that at WISC pro day, “Beigel did retime the short shuttle and clocked in the 4.07s to 4.10s range, an improvement form his combine mark of 4.3s.”
That puts him somewhere between Von Miller and Luke Kuechly. Pretty heady company.
Beigel in R3 wouldn’t be much of a letdown if they pass or miss on Watt/Bowser earlier.
If someone doesn’t know what to do this weekend, I would be veeery happy if someone with experience could watch the play of our new o-liners from last year and give me (and anyone else interested) an impression of their quality. Thanks and have a nice weekend
With the signings of Joeckel and Aboushi and the apparent interest of adding another tackle in FA I am more and more convinced that PCJS won’t look too hard for OL in the draft. They wanted to add veteran competition … done.
Even with Bolles available at 26 I doubt they would prefer him over King/Obi/Watt/Davis/…
More so on day 2 I just don’t see them adding other rookies to that super-young OL group.
The only offensive pick I could see on day 2 would be a blocking TE even after resigning Willson with him and Graham being in a contract year.
On the contrary, I think they will just keep swinging and see what shakes out. Most of these deals are for one year anyway. Doesn’t mean it will be our R1 pick unless a prospect is there that merits it, but I think a R3 pick could easily go that way again, much like Odhiambo last year.
Since we’re talking LBs, here’s a little hidden gem for you all today:
LB/LS Tyke Kozeal, Nebraska at Kearney, listed at 6-0, 240 on team website.
Kozeal ran the 40-yard dash in 4.7 seconds, the pro agility drill in 4.2 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.9 or 7.0 seconds. All those marks are unofficial and not immediately shared by the scouts. Kozeal also posted a 32-inch vertical leap, a 9-foot-6 standing broad jump and 25 repetitions of 225 pounds.
Level of competition and all, but:
School-record 430 tackles (181 solo) … 13.0 tackles per game … 37.0 TFL, including 8.5 sacks … 14 PBU’s … 13 QB hurries … five forced fumbles … four fumble recoveries … four INT’s for 80 yards and one TD … three rushes for 32 yards on fake punts … 3-time All-MIAA … 3-time MIAA Scholar Athlete … 3-time co-captain
Career highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-6u5u4kCTw
He has the agility Rob noted the Hawks seem to prioritize in LB’s, and his bench would have tied for 2nd among LB’s at the combine. As you can see in the highlights, he moves really well in coverage as well. If he can double as longsnapper and MLB depth, as well as ST blocker, I could see him getting a UDFA invite to camp.
Random question: Have there been a lot of college players that have succeeded in the NFL with high athletic ability/good combine scores but without a lot of college production/stats and experience? If so, I’d like to hear some names of these players.
Seems like a C-Mike or George Fan type of a guy without a lot of stats/production but high athletic upside can be a gamble, but like any gamble, it can pay off.
*Fant
Yes. Many. Doug Baldwin had 7 receptions as a junior (more catches as a senior than his first 3 years combined at Stanford).
Jimmy Graham had a total of 17 catches his college career for 213 yards (all as a senior, as he obviously focused on basketball early).
Michael Bennett had 6.5 sacks during his entire 4-year career at Texas A&M (and he played all those years).
While Bowser was a senior, Watt is/was a junior. He would have had another year of production. Remember, he started as a TE (like Richard Sherman started at a different position, too).
Oops. Didn’t read your “good combine scores” part of the question, as Baldwin wasn’t even invited and Bennett wasn’t even drafted.
Antonio Gates is the patron saint of “no football experience but high athletic ability makes good in the NFL.” If memory serves, he played HS football but was made to choose between FB and basketball in college and chose basketball. Worked out for NFL scouts and the rest is history. One of the all time greats.
Jason Peters
Time for some TEF updates. I’ve been running through what I can find from Pro Days. I’m not up to date yet, but I usually find more data if I wait until a couple days after the event anyways. Here’s the full list so far, in order from highest to lowest TEF score:
C/G Cam Keizur, Portland St., 6033, 303
3.30 TEF, 100.14 wTEF
35.5 VJ, 9’3″ BJ, 29 BP
OC Brian Gaia, Penn State, 6030, 292
3.26 TEF, 95.32 wTEF
28 VJ, 9’6″ BJ, 32 BP
OT Chris Muller, Rutgers, 6055, 312
3.25 TEF, 101.48 wTEF
29 VJ, 9’2″ BJ, 34 BP
OG Thomas Evans, Richmond, 6030, 305
3.08 TEF, 94 wTEF
30 VJ, 9’4″ BJ, 27 BP
OC Xavier Dampeer, Auburn, 6026, 308
3.05 TEF, 93.84 wTEF
29 VJ, 9’0″ BJ, 30 BP
OT Jylan Ware, Alabama State, 6074, 316
2.97 TEF, 93.88 wTEF
29 VJ, 9’5″ BJ, (24* BP)
OT Mason Zandi, South Carolina, 6085, 309
2.94 TEF, 90.86 wTEF
31.5 VJ, 9’5″ BJ, 21 BP
OT Tyler Catalina, Georgia, 6040, 330
2.92 TEF, 96.24 wTEF
31 VJ, 8’6″ BJ, 29 BP
OT Nick Callender, Colorado, 6050, 321
2.89 TEF, 92.87 wTEF
34 VJ, 8’10” BJ, 23 BP
If anyone has a chance to look into these guys game film and story, let us all know what you find. Happy hunting!
Nice work, Sea Mode! Cam Keizur was mentioned the other day, on this blog, but it’s nice to see his results ran through TEF/wTEF. Rutger’s Chris Muller is one that I’ll look into. If his arms meet the 33″ criteria, then he could be one to watch for. I think Seattle is going to draft at least one OL player, so information like what you have posted helps to gain better insight into potential draft choices.
Piggybacking a comment from earlier – it’s going to be hard for a rookie CB to start in year one in this system. Will Lane play more outside? Or stay in the slot? Will he play better? If he does, will he start and play closer to 100% of the snaps, as opposed to a little over 70%?
The only guy I could see them starting is Elliott. He’s had one full year to learn the ropes and replaced Shead when he went down in the playoffs.
The Thorpe contract indicates nobody views him as a starting CB in the NFL, yet he is valued on ST. Regardless, he’s going to be a body on the roster in terms of CB depth and I don’t see them keeping more than 5 CBs. Sherman, Lane, Elliott, and Thorpe are four. $1 million guaranteed was given to Shead. He’ll most likely start on the PUP list, although he’ll be one of the 5 CBs by mid/late season.
On paper, that means they really “only” need one rookie CB. Of course, maybe Elliott gets the Ty Smith treatment and gets cut in his second training camp, which would open the door for someone else.
It’s the NFL and players always get hurt. Depth is always important. Remember when we signed the guy off the street during the playoffs just over 10 years ago and he had to play that weekend?
Maybe they do go with Watt at #26 and grab a CB in the second or with one of their three third round picks.
Maybe they view rookies as having to learn the ropes no matter what and are thinking Sidney Jones and his 31 1/2 inch arms might be a great talent gamble in the second since he wouldn’t play anyway, yet could get healthy and yet also learn the system and be up and practicing at some point in the season (even if he’s never active – but would be ready for ’18).
What if they could trade down a bit from #26 and get an extra fourth and maybe that extra fourth could be used to trade for Byron Maxwell (if they have the cap space). Maxwell could start this year and Sidney Jones takes over after learning the ropes as a rookie.
Lots of “what ifs.” And after all the speculation – it’ll never work out that way!
Last year was as bad as I’ve seen Lane. I think it may have been because he got his “second” contract. He got paid. I’m not saying he didn’t try, because he did. “He battled,” as Pete Carroll said. But we all know that if we work 98% at doing something – it’s still not as good as 100%. The Seahawks are doing a lot of one year “prove it” deals. These guys aren’t coming in comfortable. After Lane got his $4 million guaranteed about a month ago, he’s no longer really “guaranteed” a career beyond 2017. He knows he needs to play much better in ’17 to have a job (somewhere) in ’18, at least this is my uneducated assumption. I am not going to count on a better Jeremy Lane in ’17, but I will certainly not be surprised if he has a much better ’17 than he did ’16.
Shouldn’t be hard to improve IMO. He set the bar pretty low.
My Lane questions would be; do we think he’s better in the slot, or as an outside corner? Was he playing slot merely because there was nobody else on the team capable of playing it as well as him? Could this team draft Obi or Budda at 26, and have them take over slot details, have Lane work opposite of Sherm until Shead or a rookie CB is ready to take over or factor in?
From what I’ve seen out of Lane on the outside, he hasn’t looked bad outside, and from what I remember in 2015, his return from injury taking over for the struggling Cary Williams was a blessing. I just wonder if he’s actually better served as an outside corner.
If Lane continues to play poorly i expect that we could see him replaced by Elliot at times. I don’t think we will see a lot more of him if its a rookie, a guy who can cover can cover, there will be growing pains regardless and we have seen PC play the guy with more potential early to have it pay off late
Daniel Jeremiah asked 5 executives for a possible surprise player who could sneak into R1. Here were the answers:
One vote apiece for Josh Jones, Zay Jones, Obi Melifonwu, Adoree Jackson and Kevin King.
One exec. added a bonus name: “my bonus name is Davis Webb. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone traded into the back end of the first to take him.”
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000793198/article/ask-5-wholl-be-firstround-surprise-of-2017-nfl-draft
With Davis Webb you’re basically getting Jared Goff 2.0. For better or for worse.
Rudy Ford ran a 4.34 at Auburn pro day watch out for him day 3 could be a nice value as a Earl backup Steven Terrall is on the street at the moment.
Terrell needs to stay there. He didn’t stay over the top and speed did not equate to him being a good safety. Any tape on the guy?
A combine metric I suspect the Seahawks highly value for WR. The 60-yd. shuttle. I noted this when I looked at Tyler Lockett’s #’s from the combine. He had a nice 11.14 60-yd shuttle. For comparison
Ricardo Lockett 11.27, Zay Jones 11.17, Julio Jones 11.07, Odell Beckham 10.93, Brandon Cooks 10.72, and then there is the new record holder in this stat from this years combine: WR-Shelton Gibson with a 10.71.
–WR-Shelton Gibson(150), W. Virginia, 5-11/195; 32″-arms, 8-7/8″ hands. 4.50/40, 8-reps, 32″-vert, 118″-broad, 6.83-3-cone, 4.20-20yd shuttle, + the record 10.71-60yd shuttle time.
2016: 43 catches for 951-yds, 22.12-ypc, 8-TD s + 29-Kick Returns for 633-yds, 21.83-avg.
Gibson was ranked #320 prior to the combine, and is now at #150, projected Rd-4/5. Looks like VALUE in the event the Seahawks trade down to fill the big hole in the draft between Rds 3 and 6.
I’d likely prefer Zay Jones for the “Anti-Kearse” roll, but he’d be long gone by the middle rounds.
This guy slipped under my radar. Thanks for bringing him up. This is an underrated wideout class with a lot of under the radar gems.
Rob, would love to hear your thoughts on Willis vs Stanford tape. We often talk about focusing on what a player brings to the table and that game really jumped off the page, especially the crunch time effort.
I will take a look
OK — just watched Jordan Willis vs Stanford. Unfortunately it was like a lot of his tape — you spend most of the game shouting ‘get off a block man’ at the screen. He is a great athlete but he has almost no counter at times, no repertoire as a rusher. It’s frustrating. Great potential physically but he needs major work in terms of technique.
Thanks for the update, my memory chose to ignore those weaknesses. With so many potential day-1 starters perhaps it’s better to let someone else take on the Willis project.
It seems likely that my best process going forward is to stick to this site for opinion. As a Rob Rang follower for some time, I have respect for his opinion and I check in at the CBS site to look at the big board, skim the articles, and get a feeling of things. They have a mock draft thing they do with several pundits giving a first round, side by side. Interesting. But apparently they talk to each other too much, because if you see one, you’ve seen them.
This is not a criticism of them, because they contribute, but I was looking today and they had 8 different cornerbacks going in the first round, and none of them was named Kevin King. That is not really a contradiction, as in most cases players were seen in the same area, but they seemed to throw in the odd corner, which, I guess, reflects the depth of the DB class.
On the other side, 3 of them had us taking Bolles, and 2 of them had us with Robinson.
I tried a few rounds of mock drafts on that site Fanspeak (sp), and the last couple allowed me to take Leonard Fournette and then Solomon Thomas each in the first, and then Kevin King in the second. Luani in the seventh in both tries. Impossible.