Overnight it emerged that the Dallas Cowboys have signed Everson Griffen on a contract worth $6m.
It’s just the latest example of Seattle’s indefensible approach to ‘fixing the pass rush’ — their self-confessed priority for the off-season.
The news emerged on the same day that Pete Carroll revealed Darrell Taylor could be weeks away from making any kind of impression. He’s still recovering from an injury that kept him out of the Senior Bowl and combine.
Carroll also said that Alton Robinson came to training camp overweight.
So let’s review Seattle’s pass rush situation right now. You’ve essentially got Benson Mayowa, a backup level player, as your primary rusher on early downs. He will be complimented, currently, by Rasheem Green and L.J. Collier. Bruce Irvin is your SAM who reduces down on passing downs. And they have Branden Jackson.
It’s difficult to imagine Taylor having any impact this year given his health and the fact he might miss training camp, while Robinson is already on the back foot too.
This is a mess — a mess that seemingly wasn’t worthy of a question during Pete Carroll’s press conference yesterday.
Only a week ago Michael Silver touted the possibility of Griffen or Clay Matthews signing in Seattle. Most of his report talked about Jadeveon Clowney though — and we discussed a few days ago how it felt like a final attempt to try and cajole Clowney into a return.
The fact is the Seahawks have been waiting for Clowney for months. They could kind of afford to do it as long as the likes of Griffen remained available. Yet now they’ve lost their security blanket. Clay Matthews, aged 34, is not like Griffen. He’s more of a specialist rusher rather than someone you trot out on first down.
By waiting and waiting for Clowney, they’ve now lost Griffen. Or, for some reason, they simply weren’t willing to pay him the $6m Dallas are — which would be strange given how much they’re paying the likes of Irvin, Jacob Hollister and Cedric Ogbuehi.
Training camp started this week and you could argue even that was a deadline too late. You can’t wait for Clowney forever. Eventually they had to make a call and move on. It would’ve been painful, especially, with Clowney likely still on the market. You can’t risk a player like Griffen signing somewhere else though.
They simply couldn’t afford to go into this season with such a weak looking pass rush. For all the people desperately trying to argue that Jamal Adams and Quinton Dunbar might create a spike in coverage sacks, let’s get real. You need to be able to rush four against five in the NFL, create mistakes and force pressure on the quarterback. The Seahawks are essentially going to be relying on Mayowa and Green for that.
It will undermine their investment at linebacker and safety if that ends up being the case.
If they weren’t getting Clowney they had to get Griffen. Now, they’ve seemingly been caught out because they waited too long:
The #Seahawks and #Vikings went back and forth for pass-rusher Everson Griffen, while the #Cowboys quietly went to work. Out of nowhere, they add a key cog in their defense. Griffen to Dallas.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 13, 2020
Again, the Seahawks came into the off-season with a self-confessed priority of fixing the pass rush:
They equally made re-signing Jadeveon Clowney a priority:
They did their work at the combine, checked their sources and seemingly came up with a plan to retain Clowney, by offering him less than he expected but perhaps more than anyone else was offering.
Rather than take his time and take the best deal on the table, Clowney refused to play to the tune of any team. He feels he has a certain value and wasn’t going to play for anything less.
Seattle weren’t wrong for focusing on Clowney — clearly the most dynamic, field-tilting defensive lineman on the market — but by putting all their eggs in one basket, they watched other teams add the likes of Dante Fowler, Robert Quinn and Calais Campbell. None received outrageous contracts and all, clearly, could’ve combined to create a reasonable pass rush. As we saw with the two Smith’s in Green Bay a year ago — you don’t need to sign the biggest of the big names to create a pass rush.
With Clowney holding out the Seahawks essentially held out with him. If you’re going to go all-in on a player, you better seal the deal. Otherwise you’ll be caught short — which is exactly what is happening now.
PFF ranked Seattle’s defensive line as the worst in the NFL for a reason. It’s very hard to win a Championship with the worst D-line and pass rush in the league.
So what next?
Clowney could easily see this latest development as a leverage boost. The Seahawks have lost their primary alternative. He might dig-in even more now. And the Seahawks simply don’t have the money to make an attractive offer to him without aggressively restructuring deals for Russell Wilson and Tyler Lockett.
They could sign Clay Matthews but again — he’s a complimentary rusher in the twighlight of his career. You already have that in Irvin. The Seahawks need someone who can get after the quarterback on early downs and be the #1 defensive end. They also need options given the chances of Taylor landing on the PUP are increasing.
The big trade for Adams and the recent good news regarding Quinton Dunbar has given people cause for optimism and a welcome distraction from the reality of this off-season. Simply put, the Seahawks have failed their biggest test of 2020 and have now put themselves in a real bind with just weeks to go until the start of the season.
The only way to change that is to somehow get Clowney back in the building. They have to get it done.
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Only way to pay big money for pass rusher is to give him multi year contract with lower first year cap hit. Clowney obviously doesnt wont that type of contract. Only good to great rusher currently semi available is Ngakoue. After adding Adams and Diggs, Blair future is under question. Pete said yesterdai he is basically rookie as nickel.
Would you send offer to JAX, Blair for YN?
I’ve addressed this elsewhere. It’s impossible for the Seahawks to trade for Ngakoue because they are handcuffed to a $17m salary in 2020.
You’re missing another dynamic, Rob. Teams can now try Clowney out. Tennessee? New England? He has even more leverage.
$6m?!?!
This is as disappointing as not jumping in on the Campbell trade. As is this recent development about Taylor, it feels like Collier’s rookie season all over again. Sigh.
Agree with every one of your points
Except Collier came in healthy and got injured in camp. Taylor didn’t even come in healthy.
Fair point but with what appears will be similar results
How??? How did we not sign him for freaking $6mil! Last year i was discouraged because of the lack of DL FA options. This year… all the options in the world were available. And cheap-ish.. and we do nothing.
Rob, I saw you answered me on previous article. Of course we cant have YN on tag price this year. But on multiyear contract with 10m cap hit this year, it could be possible. For 2021 only LEO on roster are this year rookies. Safety is position where players play 100% of snaps. There is no place for Blair at SS or FS in next two years if Pete belive in Diggs as FS. Taylor could play on rookie contract behind YN, just like Clark behind Avril.
No, Millhouse. The deadline has passed for franchise tagged players to sign extensions. If you trade for Ngakoue now you’d have to take on his $17m cap hit. You can’t lower the cap hit in any way whatsoever.
Uf, I didnt know that…I mean, I knew that he can’t negotiate new contract with current team after deadline, but I thought that if some team trade for taged player, they can negotitate new contract, no matter if its before or after deadline…
If thats the case, then yes, there is no way we can afford his 17mil for this year…
Everything is dependent on Clowney now.
Otherwise they’re basically going to waste the season because of the DL.
One more.thing…is there possibility that JAX and SEA split his cap hit for 2020…I am not saying JAX would accept it, just want to know is that possible at all?
Yes it’s possible but extremely unlikely.
Also what resources to we have after the Adams trade? We need to keep our second rounders to maintain some level of quality (and inexpensive) youth coming into the team.
Millhouse pitched a Marquise Blaire for Ngakoue trade.
But there’s absolutely no reason for the Jaguars to trade away a premier pass rusher for an unproven safety who has essentially been replaced one year into his career and is now, seemingly, being shoe-horned into the nickel competition.
Not to mention it would cost the Seahawks an extra $1.2m to move him.
I mean if JAX wants to swallow 8 million like Houston did.
Which they might if Seattle was dangling a R1 pick.
But they don’t have a R1 pick,
Clowney is getting delusional about his value at this point. Lets look at the Super Bowl contenders on the AFC. Ravens have 7.3 mil in cap space before IR and PS, they invested 16 mil on Judon, and 10 mil on Campbell. Chiefs have 13.9 mil before IR and PS, they are investing avg of 20 mil a piece to Clark and Jones. On the NFC side, 49ers have 12.8 mil before IR and PS, they invested in 17 mil in Armstead, 15 mil in Ford. Saints have 7.3 mil and have invested 9 mil in Jordan, 7.6 mil in Rankins, and 3.7 in Davenport. The presumably top four teams don’t have 17-18 mil to dish out and with him turning down 18 mil from CLE (12 mil base + 6 mil bonuses/incentives), his price would need to be about what Griffin got ( 3 mil base and 3m in bonuses/incentives) if he really wants to play for a contender. HE CAN’T HAVE BOTH and needs to accept this reality.
It’s time for fans to get their finger on the pulse here with Clowney.
It’s nothing about being ‘delusional’. If Clowney is prepared to not play this year, which is entirely possible, he won’t give a crap about how much money teams have left. If he believes he’s worth a certain amount of value and won’t be shortchanged, there’s nothing any team can do. As long as he’s willing to not play and not be paid, it’s all a moot point.
And given training camp has now started and he still hasn’t signed anywhere, I’m assuming he is willing to not play. So it’s not about being delusional. It’s sticking to his principals.
At this point in the off season and with the current COVID fears I wonder if/how that is impacting Clooney’s goals and perspective on his contract situation. Has anyone heard anything in this regard? It might be giving him added reasoning not to sign a contract under the value he placed on himself. Why play and risk your health from injury and now illness for a discount?
Possibly. I think more than anything though he just wants fair value.
Was thinking of that, but in a different light. Perhaps I don’t know the details of how this works, but assuming players get their salaries even if the season is canceled, why not sign a one year deal if you’re Clowney? Is there downside to that knowing the possibility of a shortened season?
Because the contract simply tolls to next season. He’d basically be making a two-year commitment then. For the sake of $150,000 he might as well just sit out and take his chances in FA next year.
And if the season plays out and he gets injured, it could materially affect his value going forward. face the facts; Clowney wants a big $ multi year deal. IF we could have got him on a big $ single year deal early, I think the FO would have done it before signing depth. It sounds like Jamal was always in their plans, assuming a season was to happen, so your going all in. I THINK they realized early this would be a multi year and have continued the dance knowing so. There is NO other excusable way to explain frittering away $$ than thinking that they would make 2020 a low cap hit year in Clowney’snew contract. Look at the facts; they let a 3-6m Griffen walk because they still believe they can land Clowney. At this point, you’ve almost push all in, so you might as well through the rest in and see the river card.
We’ve covered this. Math doesn’t add up with sitting out a year. Specially looking at a year in 2021 that we may have a lower cap limit due to the lost revenue. He has to get mid 20+M a year on a three + year deal to come out ahead. He won’t get that. He will be older and the cap will be smaller. He and the Seahawks have boxed themselves into a corner. I posted earlier we should’ve signed Griffen and Snacks and we would’ve been fine.
It doesn’t matter though Bruce.
Clowney isn’t thinking, ‘how do I get as much money as possible over the next few years’. That’s not his motivation. He’s motivated to get what he constitutes fair market value.
If nobody’s offering that, he won’t play.
He doesn’t need to make the sums work if he’s happy to walk away or miss a year of football.
You or I might not understand that. But you or I haven’t got $50m in the bank.
Another aspect of this is that, if he is carrying injuries, then sitting out a year & giving his body a rest might be more profitable for him in the long term. Either way, I’m with Clowney on this. If people won’t pay him what he thinks he is worth & he can afford to walk away from below-par offers, then more power to his elbow. Wish I was in that position.
” But you or I haven’t got $50m in the bank”
You don’t?? Just kidding.
I hear you. This is coming down to ego and him thinking what he is worth. Except market has spoken but he doesn’t like the answer. I would say if this wasn’t the year of COVID and opt outs there was little chance of him sitting out. But with the virus issue he just might. I’m still shocked and annoyed Griffen signed with the Cowboys. And the Chiefs extended Kelce. Where do they get all this CAP room to sign all of their big players to big contracts and pay Mahomes $50M/year? Sigh…
I don’t think it’s down to ego at all.
If you’ve made enough money to set up generations of your family, you’re considered one of the top players at your position and you feel you’re not getting market value — if you want to sit out instead of taking what you’d consider a bad contract, that’s your choice. It’s not arrogance, ego or delusion. It’s a choice.
This is SOoooooooo disappointing. All this time and all that money pissed away….Then they fudge around and let the one guy slip away that they could have easily afforded.
Taylor is injured, and he more than likely would have minimal impact in year one……UGH….this SUCKS.
I have always been a huge supporter of PC/JS and given the benefit of the doubt whenever possible but if they go into the season with this DL then there need to be serious questions asked about this front office and player personnel decisions going forward. What a mess for what could be a SB caliber roster.
I think it’s a long way off a SB roster personally.
They’re badly lacking on both lines, have thin depth at several positions and rely too much on the quarterback.
I disagree with you Rob. Not sure about how they’ll handle nickel situation…maybe Griffin+Dunbar on base downs and Griffin+Flowers and Dunbar as nickel, but their backend is pretty good/great.
Their LB corp is great.
Reed is a really talented DT. They have ton of depth and I think one pretty OK/good starter could emerge from this group at DE. They need an additional DT (not a superstar, but someone who could command double team based on size or speed) and a really good DE.
That’s 2 players on defense. One could cost much (16m+), but the other not that much (5-10m)
On the offense they have plenty of RBs. They have plenty of OL. For this year I’d only need a solid swing tackle (like Fant could’ve been) and a good RT. That is like 20m for both
They could use maybe another WR and a proven TE, but neither is a must imo. WR could be Gordon and not even sure they need a TE, so let’s say somewhere between 50m would give this roster a push to a true SB caliber team.
If they would’ve cut KJ, give Olsen lower contract, Irvin smaller contract, don’t sign Shell and Ogbuehi, forget Mayowa and restructure some deals and they could’ve easily have that money
You can’t win in the league when you’re really bad in the trenches.
Simple as that.
The Seahawks have the worst DL in the league even with Jarran Reed and massive, honking question marks on the OL.
This is inarguable.
If a football team is a race car, then Russell is a too notch engine, jamal adams is the leather seats and fancy interior, and out offensive and defensive lines are the wheels, axels, shocks.
In this case, we have a bunch of used spare tires, some blown out shocks, and some torqued axels… and the hope the reving the Russell engine hard enough will make up for the rest, and distracting the fan base with the sleek new interior.
Agreed, Rob. Whatever the plan was to get from division round loser to championship challenger, it doesn’t seem to have come together. The team might have a puncher’s chance to edge a few high scoring games if the OL comes together and the back 7 can ‘bend not break’ enough times in a game, but that’s not a solid plan to have any expectation of a high seed or deep playoff run.
Well, at least they have a strong deep rotation at DT…
I’ve reached the point where I think its irrelevant if someone agrees with you or not- the line of questioning(or lack thereof) should make every fan of the team and proper journalism very concerned, to put it mildly. Not asking about the pass rush is basically criminal at this point.
I don’t really know how anyone couldn’t agree with me to be honest.
How can anyone look at the clearly stated aim to fix the pass rush, review how they’ve gone about that, and reckon this is a defensible effort?
Only someone so determined to defend the team at all costs could argue against that.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1293891156850417664?s=19
Ian says Mathews and Clowney are options for Seahawks.
Taylor weeks away from getting started back to football and Robinson weeks away from getting started back to football shape!!! What a flustercluck 😡😡😡
In my opinion, it’s time to take a chance on Clowney’s health.
If you’re trading two first rounders for any player and it’s not a QB to build around long term, you’re in win-now mode. Go and sign him to a deal he will accept with a low year-one cap hit that stretches into 2021 or 2022 — with options, bonuses and all sorts.
You simply cannot go into this season banking on Benson Mayowa as your primary DE.
Yeah, you just have to give the guy his $$.
Your rookies were already going to have minimal impact, and now they are hurt and fat. Your DL is an absolute joke, in a year when you blew off the next two years of draft capital.
I completely agree.
A possible positive way to look at this Griffen development is that the Seahawks still clearly feel like signing Clowney is a discint possibility, and that you were right that the report they’d moved on was an attempt at negotiating in the media, otherwise I have no idea why they wouldnt have signed the next best option for that amount.
It’s either that or they’re completely delusional about the state of their current pass rush. Which I dont want to believe just yet, but its getting harder to deny.
I guarantee they aren’t delusional about it. They will know just as well as we do that the current line isn’t good enough.
They’ve just got caught in this slow dance with Clowney. Which was fine to an extent until the alternatives (Griffen) starting leaving the market. Now they’re running out of time and options. Do they want to waste a season or not?
I agree. health is probably the reason they havne’t gone in bigger/higher – they, like all of us, were front row witnesses to how important he was to the defense.
And i think we now kind of are painted into a corner and need to roll the dice on that issue.
This is so disappointing! I thought they were on the verge of signing Griffen and a DT like Harrison, Dareus or Jernigan. With Griffen only asking $6 mil., that would have made it easy to sign two quality DL for around $10 mil., and they need to be in camp practicing ASAP after a week of Covid protocol testing. Going by previous negotiations with Clowney this year and veteran DLs over the last decade going into camp, they probably offered Griffen half of the $6 mil. he got from Dallas. The regular season starts in a month, and it seems like we’ve been lowballing and playing chicken with Clowney, Griffen and other DL, and we’re losing or lost in Griffen’s case.
Rob, if we sign Clowney do you think we have serviceable DL? I’m assuming they sign a vet on dt.
I don’t know. They needed to retain Clowney and build around him this off-season. I’m not sure Mayowa is good enough. Simply being ‘less crap’ than Ziggy Ansah doesn’t mean much. You actually have to be able to create consistent pressure. Their depth at defensive tackle is horrendous too.
But let’s put it this way — without Clowney they have the worst DL in the league and it has great potential to waste the season. With Clowney, they at least have someone on the DL who can make things happen.
Thank you Rob. Yes, i figured that. Even with Clowney we are okay or say way better than now, not sure what’s going on in JS/PS mind. Should we praise them being patient ? only time will tell what they planned for.
Days like this make me miss those days when Kenny and I did a weekly podcast. Got so many thoughts.
Maybe do one of the old solo pods? Soapbox style opening followed by community questions?
I used to like those.
I might do. I was considering it. Prefer a conversation though — I like to be challenged in a podcast and it not be one-sided.
Yes, I like Brandon but he is too positive 🙂 which i don’t complain. Will love to hear from you, find someone or go with Brandon. My two cents
I think Brandan is fantastic. A naturally excellent podcaster.
But we don’t do a weekly podcast I just wait for invites.
Sent you a message Rob! I’m in for it.
They are still 100% in on Clowney. Still putting off signing other positions. Nothing has changed sadly. He seems to hold all the cards. No moves left. Pay him. Only problem i can see is if Russ, Tyler or Bobby say no to a restructure. Why? I’m not sure if they want to win. I know its not their job to bail out the team. The team had money to spend, we all know. Doesn’t matter now. How much do you want to win? Time to prove it for all involved.
It’s not quite as simple as that though. It’s OK asking your star players to sacrifice money but that can create a terrible dynamic when they know as well as we all do that they’ve already spent nearly $60m in free agency, had a healthy cluster of draft picks and then traded the house for a player. If they still need more money to make more moves after all of that — they’re well within their rights to question the plan and say, ‘no — you’ve had the resources to fix this’.
I think it would be healthier to forget about Clowney on this board and move on to discussing the current team. There is just alot of anxiety over the situation.
If they sign Clowney later than we can all be pleasantly surprised,
I can’t speak for anyone else but I am experiencing zero anxiety with the Clowney situation.
I have no interest in burying my head in the sand, talking about how lovely Jordyn Brooks and Jamal Adams look in a pair of Seahawks shorts and pretending that Benson Mayowa is a good enough DE1. I prefer to talk about the issues that matter and have the discussions that might be uncomfortable for some but need to be had.
There are plenty of other places going ‘rah rah Seahawks’ every day. I choose to have a proper discussion instead.
Obviously, was expected, but let’s hope this limits their spending ability going forward. TE also seems to be a position that suffers a lot of injuries. (or that might just be my impression).
$18m signing bonus on that.
From the Urban Dictionary:
Farving
1) The act of flip-flopping on an important decision. It is derived from, long-time Green Bay Packers quarterback , Brett Favre’s constant flip-flopping on his decision to retire from the game of football.
2)Taking nude pictures of you genitalia while wearing crocks and sending it to a female’s phone.
Example: “Would you fetch me a Christmas goose for a farving Tiny Tim?”
Bummed beyond belief about Griffen. How can the Cowboys afford to sign him. They are in worse cap shape than we are…have to be:
Dax $32m
D Lawrence $22m
Z Martin $15m
T Smith $14m
A Cooper $12m
E Elliott $11m
T Crawford $10m
That is $116m right there?
Need to bite the bullet and sign Clowney right now. He is the only real difference maker out there. Super disappointed about Taylor and Robinson.
If the only way to sign Clowney required the Hawks to cut KJ Wright and restructure (Russ) by pushing money out to other years, would you do it?
They’re not cutting KJ.
Agree that they aren’t cutting KJ, but Hollister, Jackson and Moore could still be let go if that was necessary to get Clowney under contract! If Russ and Tyler restructured it doesn’t hurt them financially in any way, just pushes some cap hit into the future, so they would likely agree in order to get JC in the building!
Jackson and Moore maybe.
But Hollister, I hate to keep pointing this out — there’s a reason they put a R2 tender on him. If the idea was just to get rid down the line they would’ve done the original round tender and saved money. They made sure they kept him. They value him. And given their depth at TE is an older player, an injury-ravaged player, rookies and Luke Willson… there’s no way they cut Hollister.
I agree with you that they value Hollister quite a lot, and they should with the way he performed late last year!
I only suggest that cutting him could be an option if they absolutely need those funds to get JC back in uniform. It’s not desirable and definitely hurts the TE depth, but it could really improve the DL situation as we all know!
I hope it doesn’t come down to this honestly, Hollister is a really nice insurance policy! But I would rather have Clowney than Hollister if that’s the choice!
To me though, we might as well say ‘will they cut Carlos Hyde?’ Because it’s equally unlikely and a similar cost.
The only reasonable way to get this done now is to lower the year-one cap hit and make it a multi-year deal.
I’m with you on this, just trying to find ways they can fit Clowney into the budget this year (and beyond hopefully). Cutting away key depth players is never a good way to do things, but it does seem to happen.
I’m just hoping they find a way to make it happen!! Keep up the great work Rob, would love to hear of a podcast in the works!
For me it’s time to roll the dice.
You can’t trade two R1 picks for a safety, spend $25m on two linebackers, spend a R1 pick on another linebacker, then trot out the worst DL in football in front of them.
Go to Clowney, work out a 2-3 year deal with a limited year-one hit and get this done.
If you put all your eggs in the Clowney basket, you can’t afford to come away empty handed. You’ve put yourself in this bind and now you’ve got to get Clowney done. There’s no alternative other than a wasted season.
Wilson will keep them competitive but you’re not winning a SB with the worst DL in football. So they’ve got to find a way to sign him to a deal.
Agree completely! What does your gut/intuition tell you? Are they gonna get something done with Clowney, or be left holding a bag of turds?
As Rob already said, you HAVE to get a deal done. You basically went all in on the next couple of years by making the Jamal trade. As such, wasting one year because of terrible line play is unacceptable, and there is no way the FO is delusional in the current DL. Even with Clowney and a vet DT, I am still VERY worried about the oline; the question mark of Shell next rookie just scares me
I’m not confident or optimistic.
And this is why I’m glad we’re in this predicament. We HAVE TO make a long-term deal with Clowney. And that’s awesome. I want Clowney to be a part of this team for YEARS. He’s a great player. Pay the man. They have no choice.
If I am JC, it has to be a 3+ year deal. No way I am going to play one year in Seattle again, with that sh*t line, because his sack numbers will be <5 again, and he will be back in the same boat next off season. Playing in Seattle, with this DL is not an appealing situation.
Yeah, I agree; its a 3-5 year or bust for him. Unfortunately, everyone assessing value based on sack and not overall true disruption caused; we even argue about amongst ourselves, and we got a chance to witness his true value last year. Another single year in Seattle will either reduce his market value due to stats or get him injured which will cost him his career or raise more durability questions. Multi year or bust if I am in JC’s camp…he did his “prove it” last year.
My euphoric hopeful fantasy that Seahawks would end up with both Griffen and Clowney in the end are dashed.
I would love to hear an honest explanation from Schneider why they didn’t sign Griffen.
Doesn’t make sense. I guess they were just using media regarding signing Griffen or Matthews to try to get Clowney to cave..
Lack of DT signings also perplexing.
Pete is either counting on no season/truncated season or aiming for a top 10 draft pick.
Eh?
They just traded their next two R1 picks away. How are they aiming for a top-10 draft pick?
And why do people keep suggesting the most competitive, motivated, jacked coach in NFL history is counting on ‘no season’.
Oops.. rough times ahead
/Sarcasm
If the state of the line causes us to go 6-10 it will be really depressing to see the Jets using our first round pick with pass rushers who can help on the board.
It’s remarkable that we’re paying Bruce more than Griffen got. And if we play Bruce at LB, then a 1st round pick rides the pine. If you had just signed Griffen instead, our roster construction is better, and our cap situation is better. Really disappointing that we didn’t take full advantage of this offseason to go from good to great.
On the Seahawks website the second picture in “photos” shows #98 Robinson. His form doesn’t look terible on that picture. Maybe Pete was refering to his cardio level or he expected him to be a bit leaner but he is not “fat”.
Lj Collier looked way worse in his rookie season.
Additionally, later you find a picture of Barton who still looks like a kid. He didn’t gain enough muscle in the offseason it seems.
I don’t think anyone is saying Robinson is fat.
However, a reporter felt obliged to ask if Robinson came in heavier than expected, which means it was something noticeable. And Carroll confirmed he was too heavy. So it’s hardly a non-story.
Absolutely! When Pete critizes someone publicly that is definitely something to keep an eye on. Just wanted to say that from the looks it doesn’t seem he was lazy during the offseason which would be a way better sign than someone that just comes to camp out of shape.
“Championship Offseason”
Overspend on RFAs.
Overspend on FAs that aren’t difference makers.
Overspend in the draft on an injured pass rusher.
Overspend in trade for Adams.
Hold a tight line on Clowney?
They have to follow the pattern they’ve laid out now. They have to pay Clowney or suffer the consequences.
I agree, but I do believe:
– the RFAs were just tying up cap and depth talent until they needed the cash/spot. We saw it with Hunt and Jackson, now one is back at half price. There is more to come on this (pardon the pun 😉 with Moore and Hollister
– They did overspend IMO, but they filled needed depth. IF their plans were for Clowney, Adams, Dunbar, Olsen, &ShellandFinney were truly Solara’s picksI am fine with that.. BUT you must get you those top tire guys. One is yet to be signed…and its the biggest hole.
– Not looking at the whole draft, just Taylor; disappointing, but who knows what the medical staff stated about recovery times. Under the overall picture, assuming Clowney and a DT get signed, 2020 would have just been a growth year.
– Overspent on Adams; we need to see this play out. He is a superstar, and we all wanted to add superstar talent. IF we had already addressed the lines, everbody would praise this move. Let’s see the chess pieces paly out first
– Clowney: TBD…gotta figure he is coming back…Has to. He is the bottom block holding up this whole jenga tower known as the 2020 year
Well, plan A was to sign Clowney. And plan B is to sign Clowney with fingers crossed. But Clowney didn’t blink during the entire free agent period and beyond. No reason to when you’ve made $60 million before the age of 30. Shall we say it will be an ‘interesting’ season, to say the least. I’m crossing my fingers right NOW!
Hey Rob, why don’t you interview Bus Cook?
URL: http://buscook.com/
I highly discourage members of this board from sending angry E-Mails to Bus Cook.
Already tried
Dang I hope they don’t get Matthews.
He has never adjusted his game to the changes around roughing the passer. Huge liability to just get ejected or create massive penalties.
Big NO on signing Matthews.
Plus, he’s merely a situational rusher. He’s another Bruce. You can’t put Matthews at starting DE.
According to Rapoport it sounds like we were trying to bring in Griffen. It would be interesting to know how much they were offering and why Griffen didnt choose us. I wonder if he knew that we wanted Clowney and he knew he was a second choice. In that case I wouldnt go back to Minnesota (they cut me) and I wouldnt go to Seattle (second choice). I would go to Dallas as well knowing they wanted me more.
Nah..dude just figured out he was just a pawn/ploy in the Clowney saga for Seattle. We could have offered him more early on, and still maintained the Clowney pursuit. We didn’t….the media BS from last week..dude just said F it!
Assume the $ is the same, or close. Which DL would you rather play on? Which line gives you the best chance at 8-10 sacks, and a shot at 10 Million next year?
At his age, this isn’t a prove it deal; he took the best offer and opportunity he had. He was in the position to get mucho sacks last year opposite Hunter. This was simply getting a fair deal done. The Hawks obviously were not interested, as the $ are virtually irrelevant. Or maybe he want to play opposite Clowney and got tired of the wait???????
Their #1 priority of fixing the pass rush hasn’t been fixed. They’re top drafted DE could end up on the PUP list and they have no legitimate starter at DE. It’s amazing to me Clowney still available. If it’s true he dropped his demands to 17-18M per year on a multi year deal; I don’t think anyone at the start of Free-agency would have thought you could get him for that.
Well he’s still available, the Seahawks need him; A 3-4 year deal in that 17-18M range seems like a no brainer. It’s difficult to say he’s worth less than others signed in that 15-20M range.
Seahawks need to just suck it up and admit they misread things.
To me the Jamal Adams trade only makes the Clowney signing a larger priority than it was before.
+1
If they are really all in they need to accept defeat on this one because his signing could be the difference between another first/second round exit or a chance at the SB.
“car-crash pass-rush plan”
Pretty spot on.
Re: Clowney: “ A 3-4 year deal in that 17-18M range seems like a no brainer.”
What if the team doesn’t think that’s a good deal for what they are getting? What if they don’t like the per annum amount or the term? Or both?
What if they have doubts about the player? What if they have doubts about the person?
Hence the word seems. Obviously i don’t have all the information. if we are getting the same Clowney effort as last year; and he’s healthy, then yes it’s a no brainer. The D-Line we currently have is nowhere good enough.
What a total idiot.
Just potentially cost himself any shot at a career.
https://img.moviepostershop.com/just-one-of-the-guys-movie-poster-1985-1010233875.jpg
Beat me to it! haha
Give her a shot at rushing the passer. Can’t be worse then what they’ve already assembled.
Is that how Ansah made the roster last year?
And here everyone was speculating they were making room for another signing.
You should’ve added the follow up tweet that he had her wear Seahawks gear to try and make it look like she was a player. What a ruse!
Maybe he can reinvent himself as a defensive coordinator, disguising stunts and blitzes?
In Russell Wilson’s press conference he said he wants to treat the first quarter like they do the fourth quarter. He was basically saying he wants to let himself cook. Mentioned that he was 56-0 when leading by 4 or more at the half. I agree, lets try to get early leads then let Carson and Co. take over in the second half. Could help the defense as well.
A continuation of Russell’s year of being more outspoken and trying to hold the team to account.
“Trying to hold the team to account”. Yikes! Can’t decide if this is you stirring the pot, or just an injudicious way of saying Russ is demonstrating that his confidence in himself hasn’t diminished (which is good).
I’m not stirring the pot. I think Russell wants to win and he’s starting to give the top brass a dig in the ribs and say ‘come on, let’s get after this’.
Think Softy can get some answers out of PC?
At least he’ll be asking the right questions. I hope.
He’s the man to ask a challenging question.
I hope we can some kind of return on pocic. As a center, Pocic was rated high.
Looks like we have clarity around the market value of DEs. Griffen getting around 6 mil. 3 base and 3-ish if bonuses pan out for him.
I’m joking. Griffen has mental health issues, and is nearing the end of his career, where last season might have been a bit of a one-off. We can’t generalize too much on the basis of this signing. Each situation is unique.
Per Field Yates, Chiefs has $171 of cap room at one point this offseason and subsequently inked Mahomes, Jones, and Kelce to big money extensions.
There is zero excuse for the Seahawks to not sign Clowney due to ‘cap constraints’.
I’m finding myself in shock that they haven’t signed him yet and actually think they can win with this DL.
About the only way I’d be happy with Mayowa is if he was fourth-fifth string and playing on a rookie contact. Not first team making more than he should.
“contract”
I haven’t seen anyone post about it, Clowney put a so-called cryptic tweet out that seems to show he is looking at a return to the Hawks. Fingers crossed because if we get him then we have a team that can contend in the playoffs and for the Super Bowl, assuming we add a DT for depth.
Clowney doesn’t tweet, was it an Instagram?
Probably just the same one from yesterday:
“Sometimes your failures teach you many things in your life. Try to face your failures in order to achieve your following success.”
Yea that’s what I saw, I saw it on my Facebook feed that he said it. I guess I assumed it was a tweet.
Guys please check out the podcast we recorded today.
Robbie kindly jumped on with me and we shared some thoughts. You can watch at the top of the article now or by clicking here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu6lAswJ7uU
Let us know what you think.
Though because I follow the written content and thus didn’t find anything new, I thought it was an enjoyable listen and well done for those who prefer that medium.
(and yeah, definitely work on that lighting though whenever you can… 🙂 )
Indeed! Couldn’t believe how bad the light was. We won’t just rehash blog topics in future. This was basically a pilot to see what people thought.
Yep just a test pilot! I really appreciated the opportunity and look forward to doing it again.
OK I know I’m probably living on Fantasy Island, but is it possible that Griffen signed with Dallass because he was advised that Seattle and Clowney have an agreement in place and they’re only working on dotting the Is and crossing the Ts?
I mean I get that it’s far more likely he was not happy at being used as a pawn as was mentioned here earlier, but is my scenario plausible or should I just start shouting “Boss, de plane, de plane!”?
I suspect if there was a deal… both Clowney & Seattle would be shouting about it from the rooftops by now.
Right!
PC on KJR
Talking about COVID protocols
Report cut a rookie CB for sneaking woman in Seahawks gear? “would never talk about that, internal”
Biggest question mark on roster? “Evaluating the young guys. No preseason games to get film from. Have to be astute with our evaluations. Picking roster not as hard as deciding how much play time.”
Add a veteran pass rusher? “Always competing. Always looking. Going to be opportunities as change their roster. Made a statement by going after Taylor & Robsinson.”
In on Everson Griffen? “Yes”
Last time spoke to Clowney & agent? digged at them for asking, doesn’t want to answer… “We do know what’s going on with that situation and will handle it accordingly.”
Will Adams be used as a pass rusher in Seattle? “I’m not telling you what we’re doing with him. No preseason games, nobody will know.”
Dunbar? “A lot of playmaking, a lot of good things. Not with us yet. Tomorrow. Takes risks at good times. Really good tackler.”
Dunbar Suspension? “I don’t know.”
Give us something, we’re not getting much from you? “We miss the 12s at practice. We miss it. You’ll not get any more information from me.”
Nickel package improve? “Competition. Enough guys to mix whether we play nickel or dime. Working Blair inside, see how he does. Physical presence. Ugo, if he’s the guy who wins the competition, we know what we have there. We have to get better there, and it starts with rushing the passer.”
Have a PFF password? “I do.”
PFF high on LB’s? Bobby/KJ/Brooks together? “Bruce most effective SAM backer we’ve had. Experience helped. Fired up to be back. Things lined up well. Makes Bobby & KJ better.”
Guys digging Pete about not answering questions.
What will fans like about Brooks? “Kid played 4 striaght years, got lots of study. Built well, studly looking kid. Wants to play right away. Should be a real factor for us. ”
KJ at SAM? “Yes he can. He’s done it before for us.”
OL – bring Britt back? “Name again? (Britt) Working hard to make a comeback. Guy we always loved. Not sure if he’s ready to go yet. Very serious injury and challenging. Keep our eye on it.”
Snaps for Damien Lewis to start? “Enough snaps to give guys a chance. Really bright FB player. Comes easy to him. Communication with line calls. Very competitive spot. He has a good shot. Nice group, have to watch and make decisions.”
TE? “Olsen Returned in incredible shape. All the routes. Can get open and make space. Fantastic range. He and RW worked hard to get chemistry going. Hollister is in the mix.”
Will Dissly play Week One? “Yes, working out there now. Monitoring him. How does he handle the workload. Incredible competitive kid. Never missed a day in 9 months. Never late. Fingers crossed”
In favor of spring CFB schedule if he was a college coach? “Yes, fascinating time. Interesting to see what happens. If that’s what you’re dealt, we’d figure it out.”
In favor of moving the draft back next year? “Do whatever we can do. I think you’d have to move it back. Evaluations on underclassmen will be huge. If we had to move it back, we could. We can adapt. We just had a draft in our living rooms.”
In favor of NFL on Saturday if CFB is gone? “I don’t care. Doesn’t matter. Wouldn’t affect us that much.”
Dig from Softy “Next time, before the interview, send us a text with the questions you’re willing to answer.”
Thanks for this, cha.
And kudos to the guys there for at least taking a stand at getting some real answers…
Good for Softy.
It was an enjoyable interview. Fun.
Bear with me here- if the Clowney situation hasn’t worked out the way they expected, is it possible their thinking would change over time? I agree that cutting kj didn’t make sense 2 days ago, but would they rather have him, the current DL as is, and a million bucks or Clowney? Could the same logic apply to the Hollister situation? I’m just thinking more about making the best of a shite sandwich…
Rob, apologies if I have missed this somehow. Tell me about this podcast 👆🏼 Is it just on your youtube page, or on other platforms? How often etc. This is something that I’m very interested in, thanks.
Just YouTube for now but we’ll see how it goes
Black Dog bumper lead in to the podcast. Hell yes!
Playing Irvin anywhere but LEO is just an abysmal use of resources. Keep him fresh to rush the passer. What’s the point of the massive investment in LBs if you’re going to give LB snaps to Irvin.
I couldn’t agree more Gerry. That’s why we need to root for Brooks to win that WILL spot. It would force KJ to the SAM and push Irvin to the LEO.
Brooks is not going to win that job
Is it possible Seattle feels good with what they have minus Clowney? I’m in favor of adding Clowney but I’m only speaking to how the front office has treated this off-season after signing Irvin and Mayowa.
Combine Results
1. 6020, 241 lbs, 33 1/4 Arm, 4.73 40, 19 Bench, 37 1/2 vert, 10.00 broad, 4.26 SS, 7.05 3 cone
2. 6025, 236 lbs, 32. 1/4 Arm, 4.64 40, 18 Bench, 35 vert, 9.66 broad, 4.58 SS, 7.47 3 cone
So who’s who?
1 is Benson Mayowa’s Pro day and #2 is Chris Clemons Combine. I think Seattle has found their Clemons and are good with it. No one knew ‘Clemons” would end up being “CLEMONS” pre trade.
I think they figured Irvin thrived with Clemons on the other end and he hasn’t showed signs of wearing in his most recent production. I’m not making against a case of what you’ve presented in the need to sign Clowney because I believe they should too for the simple fact that you add talent at all costs.
But I’m merely presenting what I think Seattle’s logic has been in passing up on the likes of Fowler, YN, Griff, and getting the price they want for Clowney.
I could see them signing Snacks and calling it a day on the rest of the DL market.
There’s no way they are comfortable with what they have.
I think there subsequent inaction in this area speaks to their level of comfort. I think they could add a small piece to the DL but if missing out on Griffen is any indication I would then surmise they’re willing role with what they have as a core DL for 2020.
Same to be said if they’re in the Clowney or bust sweepstakes. Yes, they can still get Clowney but then they also have to feel comfortable with the “bust” scenario too. And that seems to be the case with the line in the field turf they’ve apparently drawn.
I personally hope they add him but my feeling is that the lack of pursuit of other names speaks to a level of contentment the team brass must have with what they got.
But their inaction is because they’ve been waiting for Clowney.
Not because they think Mayowa and Green is a job well done.
Do you really think they are still waiting for Clowney? They offered him more money on a long-term deal and more money on a one-year deal than any other team in the NFL and he turned them down. I think they moved on a while back. I believe they are ready to re-engage if Clowney indicates a desire to play this year but I don’t think they are waiting holding off any other moves. Clowney didn’t sign until the end of August last year. Maybe he just doesn’t like camp like Seahawks legend Walter Jones and will sign the best offer he has at the end of August.
They have their starting tackles, they have their LEO replacement for Ansah. They have a 5-tech starter in Collier and I don’t see any free agent 5-techs out there better than Collier except Clowney.
I think they are waiting to see who gets cut from other teams to sign another DT. The 2021 cap change is going to change the way teams view their current rosters while making cuts. There could be some surprise cuts that would fit well in Seattle without breaking the bank.
Yes they’re still waiting for Clowney and will sign someone else if not.
I’m not going to just repeat what I’ve been saying for months but they signed Mayowa etc because they had to have bodies while they waited for Clowney.
In no way do they see what they’ve done as complete or good enough.
They know they need more, just as they knew a year ago when nobody assumed Marsh, Ansah and Mingo was enough.
Two things:
1. I still worry about the gaping hole at DT. If injury or illness happens to Reed or Ford, what then? There is no proven depth and you can’t just assume that you will move a DE inside and be alright. Scary.
2. Seaharks re-sign previously waived UDFA’s Seth Dawkins and Patrick Carr. Why?
Without question they need a DT too.
It should’ve never got to the point where days into training camp they were so desperate on the DL.
As for the two new additions… sorry to be blunt but what a waste of time.
Thank you. I’m beginning to wonder if they are going to do anything more to shore up the DL and pass rush. Clay Matthews alone ain’t it.
Definitely think John Gilbert of Field Gulls is scanning content here along with the comment section for articles of his own site. A coincidence, I think not. My comment was a week prior.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2020/8/19/21374989/upside-seattle-seahawks-return-defensive-end-benson-mayowa-jadeveon-clowney-chris-clemons
My advice would be to not even bother clicking the link.
The Seahawks won’t morgage the team to sign clowney because they are optimizing for the 2021, not the 2020 season.
The Patterns of Behavior that support the Seahawks are looking more at 2021 than 2020:
1) The draft makes no sense for this year considering the redundancy at critical positions but it makes a lot more sense for 2021:
a) LB Jordyn Brooks: we are paying 30M to KJ, Bobby, and Irvin and 2 probably aren’t gonna be resignable next year.
b) EDGE Darrell Taylor: we need a cheap LEO
c) G Damien Lewis: look’s like he’s gonna start
d) TE Colby Parkinson: paying Greg Olsen this year
e) RB DeeJay Dallas: paying Carlos Hyde
f) DE Alton Robinson: we need a cheap LEO
2) Jamal Adams trade looks smart if the 2020 college season or scouting is seriously impeded (starting to look that way).
3) FA signings are mostly 1 year except: Jordan Reed, Shell and Finley (could be released with 1M or 2M dead cap respectively).
The context supporting optimizing 2021 over 2020:
1) The Great Cap Crunch of 2021: https://overthecap.com/looking-ahead-to-2021-salary-cap-space/
2) The good news is that there will be a lot of cheaper free agents next year.
3) Relative to the rest of the NFC perenial playoff contenders, Seahawks are in a pretty decent cap position.
4) Seahawks might have worse homefield advantage than most other contenders in 2020.
5) The 2020 season has a higher chance of getting canceled than 2021.
Sidenote: It kind of makes me think suspiciously about the Patriots. BB is up to something with that opt out money.
The Seahawks are not optimising for 2021.
I don’t know why people say things like this. Do you seriously think Pete Carroll is writing off this season? At age 69???
Or that they’re telling Russell Wilson a year of his prime doesn’t matter?
Or that the Seahawks are the only ones facing the Covid impacted year?
They just mortgaged their future to get a safety for this year. They are all in for the here and now.
There is no way they are mortgaging this season on behalf of next. That is not in PC’s DNA.
The Seahawks compete EVERY year under PCJS. They are in great cap shape for 2021 but they have not sacrificed 2020. They have a playoff caliber roster and nobody really knows who has a championship roster until the regular season ends. The Seahawks had a championship caliber roster last year until all the injuries to RBs and OL in November.
I did not intend to suggest that they sacrificed the 2020 season but they aren’t willing to drive off a fiscal cliff the way the Saints and Eagles appear to be.
The title of the article is “The Seahawks Car Crash Pass Rush Plan Continues” which I think that implies Rob doesn’t believe we have a championship-caliber roster. The article also suggests that signing clowney is the only real path to a championship-caliber team this year.
Inorder to meet Clowney’s 15m+ demands, this means either pushing cap dollars into future years, via restructuring contracts or a multiyear deal heavily weighted towards the future. I’m dubious that JS would do either to sign Clowney because it appears like there is a lot of planning around draft picks, free agency that have taken 2021 season into consideration.
There are massive differences in the 2019 cap economics (and contracts) and the projected 2021 cap economics which I believe could be the root cause of the disagreement between the Seahawks and Clowney.
Clowney has 20m+ demands, to start with. And we’ll have to pay Adams, too.
Plus, cap dollars are relative to the number of roster holes to fix. The hard lesson we learned this offseason.
The Seahawks compete since and as long Russell Wilson is their QB.
Their RB room has a major questionsmark attached, their OL is a unknown because of a complete rebuild, but the acquired parts are backup material.
Also, the style of their game requires the RBs to carry enormous risk which has led to injuries and is bound to keep being a problem.
A championship level roster has no crap DL. This is a fact we can derive from the last 10 years of NFL.
I see your point that evidence can be interpreted that way.
But nope, the Seahawks (and especially PC) are about THIS year. That doesn’t mean that they will recklessly penalize the future, but win/loss records are achieved THIS year.
I know this is about the pass rush or lack thereof, however, I for one am glad to see Pocic getting a shot at center where he excelled in college.
Obviously though, the way the line always seems to get injured almost everyone on it outside of Brown needs to be able to move around. Also, looks like Lewis will be an anchor at RG for years to come.