A detailed look at the cap situation in Seattle

Leonard Williams made his Seahawks debut on Sunday

A few people engaged me on X this week to suggest it wouldn’t be much of a problem to create cap space to extend Leonard Williams. A cheap cut here or a restructure here should get it done.

I wanted to write about this to try and explain what I think the cap situation truly is in Seattle. I appreciate many won’t read this but you can’t blame a bloke for trying.

The Seahawks have a projected $17m in cap space as Over The Cap notes. This is not how much they have to spend. It doesn’t account for things like the money needed to sign your draft class. That’s why OTC also projects ‘effective cap space’ — money you actually have to spend in free agency.

That number is currently $6.1m.

As we’ve noted several times, Bryan Mone feels like a certain cut to save another $5.9m. This means Seattle’s available spend is theoretically $12m for 2024.

The number of free agents they have next year is extensive. These players will need to be re-signed or replaced. Basically, they are going to need a lot more than $12m.

The full list of free agents is available here. See for yourself. I count eight starters and multiple other role players or rotational pieces. This includes Leonard Williams, Bobby Wagner, Jordyn Brooks, two thirds of your tight-end trio, your two starting guards, center and more.

I would suggest having $45m total cap space wouldn’t be an adequate amount for the task facing the Seahawks, let alone $12m.

Money needs to be created and can be created, provided difficult decisions are made.

People have talked about further restructures. This feels unlikely because Seattle have already pulled these levers and have some expensive cap-hits coming up on shorter-term deals. For example, D.K. Metcalf’s cap-hit in 2025 is already $29.5m. Do you really want to increase that by borrowing money in 2024?

You can’t restructure Diggs’ contract because his final year is in 2024. You can ask him to take a pay-cut but who knows how well that would be received. Jamal Adams’ situation is the same as Metcalf’s. His 2025 cap-hit is nearly $28m so how much can you seriously afford to push down the line? Remember, doing so only makes it harder to part ways in the future.

Let’s make it a hat-trick of players in the same boat. Tyler Lockett’s cap-hit in 2025 is nearly $27m. They’ve already maxed out these deals and can’t afford to be lumbered with elite level contracts in 2025 to lend on the credit card.

All of these players could be offered extensions to lower their cap hits. However, Diggs is 31 in January and Lockett is 32 next year. Long term deals stretching into 2026 and beyond seem unlikely at this stage. Adams’ injury history makes an extension highly unlikely. Metcalf could be a candidate but you’d be operating in a market where he’d have complete leverage, with the likes of Justin Jefferson about to sign his second contract.

The best option will be to make some difficult cuts.

I’m just going to list everything they could realistically do to raise funds. Remember, you can only designate two players as post-June 1st cuts:

— Cut Quandre Diggs outright, saving $11m ($10.2m dead money)

— Designate Jamal Adams as a post-June 1st cut, saving $16.5m ($10.4m dead money in 2024, $10.4m dead money in 2025)

— Designate Geno Smith as a post-June 1st cut, saving $22.5m ($8.7m dead money in 2024, $8.7m dead money in 2025)

— Designate Dre’Mont Jones as a post-June 1st cut, saving $11.5m ($6.6m dead money in 2024, $6.6m dead money in 2025)

— Designate Tyler Lockett as a post-June 1st cut, saving $16.9m ($9.8m dead money in 2024, $9.8m dead money in 2025)

— Cut Will Dissley outright, saving $7m ($3.1m dead money)

— Cut Julian Love outright, saving $5.6m ($2.4m dead money)

— Cut Nick Bellore outright, saving $2.8m ($1.1m dead money)

— Cut Dee Eskridge outright, saving $1.4m ($422k dead money)

Clearly there are a lot of levers and some moves will be harder than others but tough decisions will need to be made whatever happens between now and the end of the season. There’s no other choice.

Cutting Will Dissly (who has been a great servant but he took the third most snaps among tight ends on Sunday) feels viable. He could always return on reduced terms.

I don’t think there’s any chance the Seahawks cut Tyler Lockett, a player often described as the ‘perfect Seahawk’ and someone who continues to produce at a high level. If you think there’s any chance they move on, absorbing $20m in dead money to see him play for someone else, think again.

I also don’t think Nick Bellore will go anywhere. They seem to really value him as a core special teamer and he’s been written off for years, only to be consistently retained.

If they part ways with one of Diggs or Adams, that makes it harder to cut Julian Love.

Dre’Mont Jones could be a contender to depart if he doesn’t improve his play. He only has two sacks and a PFF grade of 53.0 — good enough to be the 92nd ranked interior defensive lineman in the NFL. That’s despite having the 19th best average salary for a D-liner ($17.1m). He is not providing value for money and they might prefer to transfer the $11.5m he’d produce to help provide resources to try and keep Williams.

Cutting Jones and Dissly would save a combined $18.5m, giving the Seahawks a total of $30.5m to spend. I still think one big move would be required to be able to stump up a big salary for Williams plus re-sign or replace a long list of free agents.

The most obvious candidate would be Geno Smith.

Firstly, this is due to the way Seattle used the contracts of Diggs and Adams to create cap space this year — making it harder to cut each player next year. That suggested a degree of commitment. At the same time, there’s always been a very clear ‘out’ in Smith’s contract after the season, with no commitment beyond 2023.

Then there’s the performance. Smith increased his number of turnover worthy plays to 13 on Sunday, moving him up to seventh in the NFL. The players in front of him are Mac Jones, Gardner Minshew, Desmond Ridder, Joshua Dobbs, Sam Howell and Brock Purdy.

He ranks 19th for passing yards, just ahead of Joshua Dobbs, Jordan Love and Desmond Ridder. He’s 19th in completion percentage, just below recently benched Jimmy Garoppolo and Ridder. He’s tied 20th for touchdown passes, 20th for passer rating and 16th for QBR.

His PFF grade of 74.2 ranks 14th but he could drop down to 15th quite easily given Justin Herbert plays tonight and is only 0.2 points behind him.

This is not the performance level of a player winning the argument over whether that ‘out’ at the end of the season should be used.

People often counter to suggest Smith’s likely salary next year is ‘market value’ for someone who might be the 14th-18th best QB in the league. To be clear, he’ll earn $31.2m plus another $2m every time he hits one of the escalators in his deal. Four of the escalators (passing yards, touchdowns, completion percentage, passer rating) appear well beyond Smith already:

The only one he has a chance to reach is nine wins. Thus, a plausible salary of $33.2m.

My counter to this argument is always that paying a middle-ground contract to a middle-ground QB is how you stay in the middle pack of the NFL. You either need an elite QB on a top salary or you need to seek value with a cheap bridge and/or rookie alternative. Paying tens of millions for non-elite QB’s who don’t act as difference makers is often just a waste of money. Plus, you often put a barrier up preventing you from earnestly looking for a better alternative.

If Smith’s play doesn’t improve, that’s the easy way for Seattle to create a chunk of cap space ($22.5m). Paired with Dissly and Jones, you could raise $40.5m and have a total of $52.5m to spend in free agency. That would give you a viable chance to keep Williams plus re-sign and replace your other free agents.

It’s also a deeper quarterback draft than usual. You could even seek to bring back Smith on a cheaper deal, perhaps creating a three-way competition with another veteran and a rookie — just as we saw in 2012.

I wouldn’t be opposed to going a step further. It’s remarkable that Diggs has a cap-hit of $21.2m and Adams is at $26.9m. Diggs is PFF’s 62nd ranked safety (58.8) while Adams is ranked 38th (65.3). You’re not getting value for money here. Maybe you can justify one of these eye-watering contracts but not both.

Raising further funds to really build front-to-back on defense could easily be viewed as a positive. Chris Jones and Christian Wilkins are both free agents next year. The Dolphins are in cap hell at the moment and are set to be $38m in the red at the start of the new league year. They don’t have many levers to pull and keeping Wilkins could be beyond them after so many aggressive moves. Plus, they need to make a call on Tua Tagovailoa next summer. Jones and the Chiefs had a stand-off during training camp and who knows if they’ll be able to come together before next year, with the franchise tag a less likely option now that it’ll cost them $32.4m.

The idea of the Seahawks being aggressive to bolster their D-line feels unlikely even if it could be argued it’d be a better investment than having a $48m safety duo with mediocre grades and minimal impact.

These are all questions for the future of course but an outline of the situation doesn’t feel pointless at this stage, especially in a week where the future warrants a bit of consideration after a 37-3 beat-down and subsequent reality check.

Can the Seahawks create money to retain Leonard Williams? Yes. Will it take cutting some big name players? Yes. Could or should they be more aggressive in the off-season than they will be? Arguably yes.

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  1. bmseattle

    Of course, we have to see if Williams himself plays well enough to warrant a contract offer.

    It’s difficult to imagine being able to pay both Williams and Jones…not to mention Reed (who has played better than both of them so far this season).

    I really hope they we don’t have a “double down” situation where they feel compelled to overpay Williams, to justify the price we paid to get him and because we *need* an impact DT, and he could theoretically be one.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s difficult to imagine being able to pay both Williams and Jones…not to mention Reed (who has played better than both of them so far this season).

      Agreed. But then I remember that the Seahawks could be paying Geno $33m, Diggs $21m and Adams $27m next year and I think, why not?

      Pay two good interior DL’s instead of two safeties with mediocre PFF grades and production.

      Draft a QB instead of paying tens of millions for a journeyman who had a hot streak for a period in 2022.

      Why not?

      • Elmer

        Right on. Time for loyalty to the team above loyalty to individuals. Reward the players that genuinely help the team, put on the cold and ruthless hat with the rest. Get out of the financial box you have built for yourself.

    • Peter

      Beat me to it. Well done.

      • Tony

        Can we call Dre Jones good? He had the team’s lowest PFF grade on Sunday at 27.8

        • Group Captain Mandrake

          Remember when everyone was excited that Seattle actually splashed the cash on a top tier d-lineman? What the heck happened to that guy?

        • Elmer


        • Rob Staton

          We can’t call Dre’Mont Jones good currently because he has underperformed.

          The premise is whether they would pay both if it was justified, so in this scenario I’m envisaging he improves.

          If not, they should be prepared to be aggressive and move on.

          But I’d rather give him a second year, I think, than pay Diggs/Adams the best part of $50m.

  2. Peter

    Additional question:

    Should Seattle create cap space for Williams?

    Great stuff Rob. I wish more fans would read this and take it in.

    The “that’s market value crowd,” feels like someone stuck at bargaining on the stages of grief. On my more flippant days I’ve argued would you be excited for a Carr, Cousins, Garrapolo, or even Goff for 28.5 million next year? Right now Geno is those names.

    If you scoff and think this is foolish thinking or what have you it’s clear the conversation is over and you as a fan ( do you as Big Mike says and I agree with 100%) have already decided that the story of who you think Geno is is more important to you than being honest about the team as a whole.

    I’m not opposed to resigning Williams. I’m not for it either. Hard to predict if he’s going to get a JAG style contract like Reed ( so what was the point of the trade?) Or a monster Javon Hargrave style one taking him into his 30’s. I’d almost prefer that because then the move that brought him would feel important. I worry that it might be the seahawks “behind door number three,” style contract. A clear over pay for a declining talent just to prove the merit of the decision to trade for him and not look foolish like Clowney before.

    • Rob Staton

      Should Seattle create cap space for Williams?

      For me, they’re almost duty bound to after paying a second rounder for him.

      For me 10 games isn’t enough. They’ve made their bed by using their second best asset in 2024 to chase things now (when they clearly aren’t good enough to be chasing things now, after what happened yesterday). Even if his play is so-so this year, they can’t just lose him for nothing. They’d have to bring him back and try and get value in 2023 from this trade.

      • Peter

        I mostly agree. With the caveat that I have a figure in my mind to not exceed. And that’s around 7 million a year.

        I really wouldn’t be surprised, should any of us, if Willams gets a hefty chunk along with Jones when/if Reed says “thanks….but I’ll sit this out for more money.”

  3. cha

    There’s no reason not to sign Leonard Williams right now.

    2024 cap be damned. They can go over 2024 cap right now if they like.

    If they had planned this out they would already have had the moves in mind to get cap-compliant in March.

    It feels very strongly like they did not.

    • Big Mike

      It feels very strongly like they did not

      Shocking that you’d feel that way. Whatever would you base this opinion on?

      /sarcasm (in case someone didn’t figure that out)

      • Brodie

        Seahawks mismanaging their cap? Get out!

        It’s honestly been one of the more infuriating aspects of team-building to witness over the years. Most casual fans don’t give a rip about the cap and feel that we should just ‘pay that man his money’.

        This is also a big part of the double-edged sword of trading picks for players. Not only do you end up paying , losing or extending the traded for player, but you also miss out on having cost controlled rookies for 4-5 years.

        When we traded for Jamal, we could have just taken the highest ranked safety on the board (ended up being Jevon Holland taken at pick 36). He would be costing about $20-$25M per year less than Adams and be locked up for another year with a 5th year option available. He also has a 90 PFF grade and has been healthy. Oh – we would also have another top 10 pick from 2022.

        Same thing will happen with the Leonard Williams deal. We’ll have an older vet performing at the level of the guy we could have drafted in round two, but costing us 5x and also missing on the 5th round flyer.

        • Big Mike

          Oh come on man, Jamal is the prez, best in the nation.
          nm that his PFF ranking puts him at 38th for Safeties at 65.3

    • geoff u

      That’s why I don’t get why they don’t already have a contract in place with players they trade for, to guarantee they’ll be on the team longer and secure that investment. The argument against is, “Well, what if they don’t work out,” to which my response is, A) if the player is that iffy, maybe don’t trade for them and B) How is that any different than signing any normal free agent to a big deal? You don’t know for awhile either on whether or not they’ll fit into the team.

      • Peter

        Dremont jones getting 3× reed’s money to be half of a Reed does not appreciate this take.

        • Elmer

          They need to retain Reed. They need to retain Williams.

          Or is it possible that they have a defensive coaching/scheme problem that makes the players look worse than they really are.

          • IHeartTacoma


  4. Mick

    The Adams and Lockett restructures make it unlikely they’ll be cut in 2024. For me, the obvious paths to cap savings are cutting Mone ($6m), Diggs ($11m), Smith ($13m), Dissly ($7m), Bellore ($3m) and Eskridge ($1m). That’s an additional $41m or so, on top of the existing $6m, for total of $47m. We then use that money to sign re-a cheaper bridge QB such as post-injury Cousins, Jameis, Lock or even Geno himself (approx $5m), Jordyn Brooks ($15m), a vet OG and OC (total $15m), one or two veteran DTs total ($5m), a vet TE (total $2m) and some special teams / depth guys (total $5m).

    • Rob Staton

      Cousins will cost a fortune, injury or not.

      Also not convinced they sign Brooks for $15m, that doesn’t feel like his value at all

      • Sea Mode

        Agree it sure doesn’t feel like it, but I wouldn’t even begin to put it past them. Hurts said in in interview last week that he considers Brooks the MVP of the defense this season. And with Bobby getting up in years, I could see them going to any lengths to retain Brooks.

        • Sea Mode

          (autocorrect got me)

  5. Palatypus

    And Nick Bellore can also play linebacker in an emergency.

    • Big Mike

      Yeah I’m with Rob. I don’t think he goes anywhere and there is literally a less than zero chance Tyler gets cut, and rightfully so.

  6. Erik

    I think the real question that needs to asked is how much is Pete going to run up the Cap before he retires in the next few years. I’m ok with going for it so we can put together a plausible contender with knowledge that there will be a rebuild around 27-28. That’s contrary to JS stated goal of consistent winner but seems like only way to for Pete to get one more SB.

    • Rob Staton

      If they really want to go for it, they need a QB who will get them there and/or they need more blue chip players who, as Mike Tanner said, can win you a game.

    • geoff u

      Without a franchise quarterback, we will never be close to even sniffing another Super Bowl. I really hate that we’re stuck in this no man’s land of “Well, we can’t draft and develop a franchise QB because that takes time, but somehow, magically, we’re going to win a Super Bowl with a mediocre QB any year now.”

      We’re sacrificing future success for perpetual mediocrity. Oh joy.

    • geoff u

      You just can’t beat that level of ball placement and accuracy. Call me crazy (I’ve been called worse) but I really wouldn’t be surprised if Stroud some day becomes the first QB in history to complete a season without an interception.

    • Rob Staton

      Who woulda thunk it?

      • Sea Mode

        We were firmly on that train. 👊🏻

        • AlaskaHawk

          Yep, I enjoyed all the QB draft coverage last season. If only the Seahawks had pulled the string!

          Will especially smart if Levis does well. But there are a couple other quarterbacks I’ve never heard of like Dobbs that are starting these days. Strange times!

        • Elmer

          Meanwhile, how are the Panthers doing with Bryce Ypung. To quote one of their fans “They spent a lot of money to get worse”.

          In Indy, Richardson is Gardner Minshew. Minshew, btw, is a refreshingly good backup.

          Levis is emerging.

  7. ok

    cutting smith, diggs, adams, jones, love, eskridge, dissly, mone, etc, feels like something the seahawks would have done. when they were badass. is they are the flyin, bitin (com)pete’s. the players are older, probably easier to coach, kinder to pete. the team is also
    softer for it.
    i wish they’d make the razor sharp slices. i’ve been hoping for that with diggs for a few years.
    i like brooks, not sure why always, but i do. pay him, pay reed. not that they are listening.
    thanks for the great articles

  8. ShowMeYourHawk

    Rob, I just can’t see Pete and John moving on from Jones so quickly, no matter how little he’s brought this season. They aren’t the “we were wrong, pull the cord” types. Pete’s a gaslighter that will justify ANYTHING if it’s advantageous to the current mission. Of all the options you listed, that one seems the least likely.

    Losing all the safeties also seems a bit dangerous. I’d retain Love, who while not providing a huge spark, isn’t a massive liability on the cap. Diggs and Adams should be driven to SEA-TAC with pink slips, as soon as possible.

    Dump Geno, wish him well as a once and future backup. Resign Lock (Dobbs?) as your bridge. Draft your QBOTF (finally!) and let him battle for the right to start Week 1.

    Honestly, Lockett still has his possession receiver skills but he’s likely not much longer for the grind. He mentioned last week that he’s already past the age when he thought he’d call it a career. Maybe he just decides to walk after the postseason? Also, I’m a hard no on a DK extension/restructure. I fear he’s going to be just good enough but never great.

    • Rob Staton

      Well in fairness they pulled the cord on their entire D-line from last season despite a bunch of moves the year before

      It cost them $7m in dead money

      And the year before they cut Carlos Dunlap at great expense just months after re-signing him to a nice deal

      • ShowMeYourHawk

        Fair enough, though neither Woods nor Jefferson were “Dre’Mont Jones” level of splash. If Jones just straight up “Ziggy Ansah”s it the rest of the way, I’d have no issue with them moving on, despite the hit. At what point do they have to weigh the dead cap for slashing payroll? What’s an appropriate amount of dead cap for a club to responsibly carry and still contend, provided they aren’t a one year, Super Bowl or Bust sellout?

        • Rob Staton

          They weren’t but I don’t think they’re tied to Jones due to price. If he isn’t getting it done, he isn’t getting it done. They’ve got some big calls to make.

  9. BK26

    I’m all for moving on from Dissly period. Then draft Lachey out of Iowa as a replacement. Would be a good weapon for our new Gamecock quarterback.

    I’m fine with getting rid of quite a few of the guys above (just redo the whole safety position, get young and hungry). Draft got us here and that should be the focus. We have way too much work to do.

    Shoot, I’m for getting rid of DK and bringing on Rattler’s favorite target along with him.

    • Rob Staton

      Lachey injured again and might not come out

      • BK26

        I knew he was injured. He’s do right to just leave. Doesn’t help when your starting quarterback struggles to throw for 100 yards a game and is completing less than 42% of his passes.

        Just tired of Iowa making tailor-made tight ends and Seattle passing on them, just to watch them tear up the league. Fant had the most upside but was the farthest away.

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        Fire up Erick All then

        • Rob Staton

          Apparently might not come out either after tearing his ACL

          • RMK-LouCityHawk

            Thought he was a senior, but I forgot the new NCAA injury waivers….

            • Rob Staton

              Yeah the word is he can take another year and is leaning that way

              • BK26

                They both need to go back. That offense is so bad that they honestly have no stats.

                QB can’t throw for 100 yards in a game….

  10. Rob Staton

    Quick draft note

    Taliese Fuaga

    Really really good


    • Sultan

      He looks the part. I think he could be another tackle to guard convert type

      • Rob Staton

        I think he’s best where he is at RT

        • Peter

          In slightly related news. Corbin Smith reported Lucas may be back in weeks. Possibly two.

          Would like to see a RT to guard player in this draft to avoid this nightmare in the future.

          • Rob Staton

            Pete said that in his press conference today, that’s where the report comes from, so it’s officially good news

            Either that or they’re rushing him back because of the disaster of Sunday

    • rowlandice

      6’6″ 334lbs! Big OT from Tacoma, WA

    • Peter

      You see him developing as more of a pocket passer or a bit of a dual threat…..

      I kid. He rules.

    • Palatypus

      The Mount Tahoma High School boy.

      • IHeartTacoma

        I encourage everyone to visit the Mt. T trophy cases someday. Pretty awesome list of sports alumni.

    • Justaguy

      Beavers have a bona fide o-line and Fuaga is premium

  11. Denver Hawker

    A lot of these cap moves strike me as still outcome dependent- nice to see they do have some levers and some more obvious than others

    They tend to keep players on the roster when 1) lack depth at the position, 2) endear themselves in the locker room/fans, 3) Pete likes their juice

    Might need to buck the trend here: Geno and Jamal need to play better to stay on the roster. I see Dre and Diggs gone already, absent some sort of revival. Could argue LW was brought in to spell Dre in 2024.

  12. Romeo A57

    Maybe a few more brutal losses like yesterday will lead to PC making many of these necessary cuts of expensive under producing veterans. I am skeptical that Pete will want to cut many of his guys on this list.

    I can’t wait for the 4 year 60 Million dollar contract for Brooks from the Seahawks that no other team would come close to matching.

    • Palatypus

      I’m having trouble keeping up with the board today.

      How do we feel about Baltimore? How good are they?

      • Justaguy

        Almost as good as the Rams. Yes, your satire wasn’t lost

  13. Justaguy

    No need to be worry about cap when getting your ass kicked is in Pete’s words,”Just because we couldn’t get going. All the signs were there for a good week.” For fuck sakes this doesn’t turn around until there is new leadership from the pinnacle of this organization.

  14. Mark

    @Rob; Do you think the Ravens would let Justin Madubike reach free agency? He was a game wrecker against us. Prefer a younger DL with room still to grow then paying for Chris Jones or Leonard Williams.

    • UkAlex6674

      Young + room to grow doesn’t always = better.

      We need studs, some blue chip stars.

      Maybe RW3 was right when he said it publicly a few years ago.

    • Rob Staton

      I doubt it to be honest

  15. cha

    Two tweets from the same person within an hour of each other.

    Dugar, Michael-Shawn
    When Seahawks fans insist the team doesnt have creative offensive coaches (not just Shane) I have to assume y’all not really watching other offenses in great detail. Lots of things Seattle schemes well, which is why the offensive numbers are generally good. Not a basic offense.

    Dugar, Michael-Shawn
    The #Seahawks are currently without an offensive identity. They know what they *want* to be, but the on-field product hasn’t matched that desire in a while. Schedule ain’t getting easier either. Clock is ticking to figure it out

    So…the offense is ‘generally good’ and has ‘creative coaches’ compared to the rest of the league but are ‘without an offensive identity’ ?

    My head hurts.

    • Marcus

      Not sure if that’s where Dugar is going, but I would agree that Waldron can cook up creative plays but has a hard time piecing them together and building a coherent game plan. He certainly has had a hard time finding a counterpunch once a defense adjusts.

      Waldron is a fine coordinator Monday through Saturday. However, on Sundays…

      • Rob Staton

        Not really sure what the point is of his first tweet.

        How about this? In multiple games this season the offense simply hasn’t functioned for long periods. Not a few series. Whole halves.

        That isn’t good enough. Let’s scrutinise that, not something as spurious as ‘degrees of creativity’

        • Marcus

          Talking about the creativeness of the plays we’ve been watching on Sundays is a bit like a short dude standing on a dollar bill and saying they’re taller.

          I’ll assume that Waldron impresses at the whiteboard on Tuesdays but he hasn’t impressed me with the call sheet in his hand on Sundays. The Seahawks have morphed over the last few years from a team that, offensively, started games weak and (sometimes) finished strong to one that (sometimes) starts strong and quickly fades once the defense adjusts.

        • king

          There seems to be a general consensus that Seattle has a good offense (not just among Seattle fans).

          From a per play perspective this is kind of true. Even after the Baltimore game, it remains 10th in DVOA (before last night’s game), which is essentially a descriptor of per play efficiency. (Yards per play is not a perfect mirror for DVOA, but it is generally a good estimate.) 10th is closer to average than elite, but it doesn’t suck.

          Yet if we start looking at series efficiency a different picture emerges.

          Seattle ranks 20th in series efficiency (with success defined as any series that ends in a FD or a TD), 18th in yards per series, and 15th in TO per series.

          At a per game level, the offense is 17th in P/G, and 20th in Y/G.

          The decent, but not great by any stretch, per play efficiency is not translating to even above average efficiency at the series, drive, or game level.

          Given the quality of the talent on the offensive side of the ball, it’s an anemic offense that flashes occasionally.

          If Waldron is creative and Geno is serviceable or better, then why doesn’t Seattle move the ball with more consistency?

          Fans will point to the OL, but porous OL play is an almost universal NFL condition. Other teams with less offensive talent are finding ways.

          The story we are being told doesn’t match what is actually happening on the field and the occasional explosive play that skews per play efficiency is a tantalizing distraction that is like the magician that diverts the audience’s attention from what is really going on.

        • cha

          Not really sure what the point is of his first tweet.

          It was to lecture a fan about their concerns.

          He’s consistently put out tweets engaging with fans and their concerns/complaints, usually defending the team, and then writing coverage articles restating those very problems in his own words.

          Makes your head spin.

          • Rob Staton

            Just surprised he didn’t end this latest tweet with ‘lol’. That’s his usual go-to move when he’s telling everyone how it is.

          • Ben

            I really like MSD and really enjoy him and Chris on his podcast for the most part.

            But MSD in particular gets in these silly circular- defend this player, blame this thing in one segment. And then ten min later defends the thing he blamed earlier! Like somewhere in there something is at fault. It doesn’t have to black and white, but worst loss in the Carroll era is NOT just playing a great team. We’ve played countless “great” teams over the years.

            I think protecting team access plays some role, and he seems to have a good rapport with guys which I appreciate. Not everybody needs to play tough, though it’d be nice if any Seattle beat guys did. The other half of this- Carroll is protecting his QB, and the best route to winning is Geno playing well. I trust Carroll knows what he’s doing as he manages perceptions and the temperature around a shaky starting QB. But I think the media senses that and tries to play defense for Geno, rather than just being honest: short term he’s not playing well but he’s the best we got. Long term, he’s just a bridge.

            Add in that “play the back up qb” negativity tends to wear on some media folks as they hear it daily. Ie, Geno sucks, bench him for Lock! Well, no. Geno is just not what we hoped. Lock is just Baker Mayfield without any charisma, more arm, and somehow less in game processing. But it comes out as defending Geno as not the problem, when clearly, relative to his impact on the game, he’s a problem!

    • Big Mike

      Chris Simms has a=said for some time the Seahawks’ offense is quite basic. So who do I believe here, Dugar or THE GUY THAT PLAYED QB IN THE NFL??!!

      Tough call eh?

      • DC1234


        Watch starting 23 min mark. Colt McCoy praises Waldron. While also say Geno needs to play better. So maybe the problem with the Seahawks offense is Geno.

        McCoy knows his stuff. Been on many teams with different system.

        • Peter

          I think both things could be true. Geno has limitations and probably Wadron has some great ideas. Almost every game this year, minus Sunday obviously, Seattle is rolling on its first drive or two.

          It gives me shades of Holmgren. Shades now. Obviously Holmgren is the far superior coaching mind.

          We’re seeing it on Sunday. A very limited QB and zero ideas how to deal with pressure, a lazy Susan of a pass chart where everyone gets a few for no rhythm, and a total abandonment of the run game.

          • BK26

            Honestly, I think that Waldron can put a good game plan together. But in game or making adjustments, he gets schooled.

            I also don’t think that he is very good at scheming for specific players.

      • Rob Staton

        The worst part for me is it’s hard to see the concepts that make the Rams so effective. I’m not an X’s and O’s guy so can’t go into details but I rarely feel like I’m watching a McVay inspired offense. When you watch Kentucky this year or in 2021, you could clearly see it.

        So what’s happening? Waldron not good enough? Pete influencing too much?

        • DC1234

          I think the issue is the quarterback.

          Compare Waldron first year w/ Russ and last year’s first half of the year with Geno.

          Last year’s offense was more like McVays than the year with Russ. Plays were different. More intermediate throws. Motions.

          This year looks off from last year. I truly believe is because Geno turned back into a pumpkin.

          • Brodie

            The fact that we are miserable in converting 3rd downs kills any momentum too. We were bottom 3 in 3rd down conversions before Sunday – cannot imagine we went up. Geno also had a 49.9 passer rating on 3rd downs with 4 picks before the Baltimore game.

            Some of the beauty of McVeigh’s stuff is they’ll run completely different plays out of identical formations and personnel. So a defense will see a look that has been say – counter right with a pulling LG 3 times in a row. Then they’ll run the same motion, personnel, etc and play action with a boot left and the motion WR scraping across to the same side and it’s wide open.

            You have to set that up though and so many 3 & outs don’t really allow for us to set anything up.

            In the Cincy game, when Geno missed JSN (didn’t throw it), that was set up all game. Pete even said they’d been holding that play, waiting on that defensive look and when we finally got it – it was open and Geno didn’t throw it. JSN had 4 steps on a LB and would have walked in.

            Geno has been target locking on read 1, getting passes batted down at the line and not throwing with any anticipation (ie when/before our WR’s are breaking instead of after). I don’t think any of those issues are Waldron issues.

            We run the fewest plays on offense other than Denver in the NFL, yet we are playing with tempo (10th in seconds per play). We are dead last in the NFL in time of possession.

            I’m sure there is plenty of blame to go around, but to my eyes and digging, Geno bears the brunt.

            • Rob Staton

              Interesting thoughts Brodie

            • DC1234

              Completely agree Brodie!!

              Lets look at Sean McVay and his coaching tree

              Sean McVay: Goff (SB loss), Stafford (SB win)
              LaFleur: Rodgers (MVPs, multiple NFC championship games). Love (terrible offense)
              Zac Taylor: Burrow (SB loss and multiple AFC championship appearance). Burrow ACL tear (season down the drain)
              Kevin O’Connell: Cousins (playoff win)
              Brandon Staley: He is a defensive coach, ruining Herbert’s career

              My point is Geno is the worst QB of the lot. I think with a better QB, Waldron can find success. We use to blame Bevell and Schottenheimer for seahawk’s offense. Maybe that is the best for what they have at QB to work with

            • cha

              Agree with all of that Brodie.

              I’d also add, Geno has nearly abandoned the idea of taking off and running, which is crazy considering his pressure rate (26.3% this year up from 22.5% last year)

              Last year he ran 68x for 366 yards, 24 first downs and a touchdown.

              This year? 22 runs for 53 yards and 3 first downs.

              So if the defense truly is covering in his eyes, and they are pressuring him, he’s not making them pay by running the ball and keeping the offense on schedule.

              I don’t know if this is coincidental, but down the stretch when he wasn’t playing good last year? He cut his runs down from 4.6/game to only 3.3/game.

              In that same stretch his Poor Throws per game doubled from 2.4/game to 5.4/game.

              How’s he doing in 2023? 2.75 rushes per game / 5.7 poor throws per game.

              Poor decision making. Not adjusting to defensive adjustments.

              • geoff u

                Good information. One of the great things we saw out of Geno last year was, contrary to Wilson, the ability to keep the offense on schedule. Make those short throws, checkdowns, while hitting the deep pass while it was there. That seems to be all gone now. This offense cannot stay on schedule to save it’s life. They need to fix this or things are about to get real bad, and I highly doubt it will get fixed.

              • Brodie

                That too Cha. Brock mentioned how ugly a lot of his throws were (especially to DK in Cincy) lately. A decent chunk of his incompletions are just due to the ball short-hopping or sailing – not great coverage.

                To your point though – a 5 yard scramble would keep the offense on schedule. A throw away would at least not hurt. In our recent losses (Cincy & BAL) he’s taken 4 sacks in each.

                3rd Downs VS Ravens:
                3rd & 4 – Incomplete
                3rd & 4 – Incomplete

                3rd & 3 – 7 yard completion!

                3rd & 11 – Sack
                3rd & 4 – Interception
                3rd & 14 – 5 yard completion
                3rd & 11 – Incomplete
                3rd & 21 – Sack, Fumble
                3rd & 15 – 5 yard completion
                3rd & 16 – Incomplete
                3rd & 9 – 2 yard completion
                3rd & 5 – Incomplete

                1 out of 12 and every one a throw. Plenty to infer here, but you can’t win with these stats. Until we can get 3rd down conversions to around 50% – via playcalling, reduced penalties, reduced sacks, or better play in general – we are going to have similar levels of frustration.

                • cha

                  DK got targeted 14x in the Cincy game. 5 catches.

                • geoff u

                  7 out of 12 were 3rd and 9+

                  Way off schedule, either due to lack of run game or playcalling or Geno not getting it done. Seems to me the main problem is Geno. He’s just not playing well.

                • bmseattle

                  I agree with your points, overall.
                  that first 3rd down non-conversion was a terrible drop by JSN, to be fair.

            • Elmer

              Well, then, if he’s a pumpkin then you play Lock. Unless, of course, you already know that Lock is worse. If all that is true then I would have a QB on my practice squad. And I would be looking hard at the 2024 draft prospects.

  16. RMK-LouCityHawk

    Rob posting the explainer that everyone needs for all the commenters playing episodic fantasy owner, and just handing out extensions for everyone.

    Nuts and bolts though:

    — Cut Quandre Diggs, hard to see the current admin pulling this lever, no matter how much sense it makes.

    — Designate Jamal Adams, hard to see the current admin pulling this lever, no matter how much sense it makes.

    — Designate Geno Smith, hard to see the current admin pulling this lever, no matter how much sense it makes.

    — Designate Dre’Mont Jones, hard to see the current admin pulling this lever, no matter how much sense it makes.

    — Designate Tyler Lockett, not happening

    — Cut Will Dissly, yup

    — Cut Julian Love, 50/50

    — Cut Nick Bellore, hard to see the current admin pulling this lever, no matter how much sense it makes.

    — Cut Dee Eskridge, 50/50


    Then there are the expiring contracts of players that will be viewed as high priority retentions. Assuming L/W is the front of this list, Lewis, a TE, Brooks, others?

    There has to be a breaking point somewhere, tough decisions and hard conversations, there isn’t a way to retain everyone, make no cuts, and keep the same old same old rolling forward.

    Were I pulling the levers? Lockett and Dre’Mont stay. Retain L/W and Lewis. Retain Brown/Brooks only for a little discount. Sign a cheap bridge QB to absorb damage and keep things going for 2024. It doesn’t seem that hard, understand you have a year that will be a growth year – with a real eye towards retaining key talent in 2025 and 2026 while making championship drives.

    I don’t have much faith that the current regime wants to make those moves, for various reasons. The answer kind of remains the same, transition is needed. A new coach has a lot of leeway to get ‘their guys’, jettison bad contracts, and move on in ways that won’t disrupt the day to day.

    • Big Mike

      Agree with most of your assessments here tho I give Love a chance of being back at 70/30 that he will. For example, Pete Carroll’s ego will simply not allow himself to designate Dremont after him being a big offseason signing. Hell, I’m not sure it’ll allow him to cut Eskridge cuz I’d wager he’s heard the Creed Humphrey complaints. And we’ve seen how he handles guys that would be actually admitting a mistake with what’s gone on with Adams.
      No, as you outlined, I agree that we’re going to see them run it back again next year because Pete Carroll’s ego is in charge of this team. Geno’s contract may be re-worked and some half-assed vet “competition” will be brought in for him I’d guess but to me it’s likely they run it back in ’24. Rob correctly pointed out that they dumped the entire d-line this past offseason but none of those guys were ego hits to Carroll. Love, Adams, Jones, Eskridge and Smith would be.

      But hey, the Seahawks have that all imoprtant continuity.

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        The problem with running it back is that something has to give in 2024, you can’t have all things.

        I feel like there is a lot of smoke around this club trying to have very clean books in 2025, and that might be very frustrating to a coach that is trying to mortgage the future for the present.

        • Peter

          They are going after a buyer?

          I’d believe it except the time Phil knight was rejected as a buyer for the trailblazers. The most logical buyer for a sports team I’ve seen in years.

          Fingers crossed the family that owns Dick’s or Oberto invested all their money early in microsoft/Amazon and are actual billionaires to buy the team.

          • Big Mike

            And the saddest thing about the Knight situation is that he was going to jump start development of the Moda Center area which is BADLY needed. Screw Jody.

            • Big Mike

              I’m with you Peter, I don’t think she’s in any hurry to sell and won’t for at least a few years.

            • Peter

              Badly needed. That area is a dead zone most days of the year.

              I don’t know about the NBA growth though I assume it to be decent. What’s the wait for?

              I’m over it. I don’t even like Knight but that would have been fantastic for the team and the city. Dude gets things done. The whole track town USA thing in Eugene is no joke.

              • Big Mike

                Yeah I can’t stand Knight either but it would’ve indeed been fantastic. Screw Jody.

              • RMK-LouCityHawk

                NBA growth is good, if there was a NBA business reason she may be waiting for the SuperSonics rebirth, which would likely increase the Blazers value.

            • RMK-LouCityHawk

              My limited understand of the Blazers sale, and the snails pace on the Seahawks sale, is that those are two high valued assets, and with the commercial market down right now (a lot of the remaining holdings are commercial properties) the sales of those teams would largely have to cover the shortfalls of the commercial holdings.

              Basically, waiting for the commercial sector to bounce back. The two valuable assets have to be hold until after those sales are substantially completed though. Gives me time to try and make a couple billion and get in on the Hawks.

              • Rob Staton

                Well at the moment, NFL teams have never been more expensive. The next one to be sold will probably be for $10b. So the commercial sector might be struggling but the price of a NFL team isn’t.

                • Peter

                  Exactly. Commercial real estate may never come back but an ultra rare item that almost prints money upon purchase is worth a massive sum.

          • RMK-LouCityHawk

            Just because there is a lot of smoke doesn’t necessarily mean there is a fire.

            I’ve seen reports and also heard whispers that Bezos was asked to not bid on the Commies with the intent that he would acquire the Seahawks. The NFL is getting choosier and choosier about who it lets into its club.

            Josh Harris also has an exploratory group, although Vegas makes more sense for him. And the NFL would like to force Davis out, it is politely waiting for Allen to tell them when the sale will happen.

            During the PC era I don’t recall a year like 2024 is shaping up to be, if they don’t start swiping the card on 2025.

            • Big Mike

              You’re far more optimistic she sells than I am. Hope you’re right.

              • Big Mike

                I’m basing my opinion on the Blazers situation and Knight being denied by her.

              • AlaskaHawk

                I don’t care who buys it. What I care about is that the Seahawks should remain in Seattle. I don’t trust a billionaire to own this team unless they are committed to keeping it in Seattle – and not trying to fund facility improvements or a new facility on the hard working tax payers and property owners.

                • RMK-LouCityHawk

                  To the latter, that’s just the way business is done now.

                  To the former, I’d trust a Bezos or a Balmer, someone with ties to the area. I feel you though, lots of billionaires just want to own a NFL team.

              • RMK-LouCityHawk

                I don’t think the league will rush her or anything…

                …I’m just noting that the Seahawks certainly seem to be gearing up for a sale in Q1 2025.

                A lot of 2021-present makes a ton of sense if you pencil in – team sold 2025.

                Part of me even thinks that is why PC seems to be pressing to go all-in.

                JS may have gotten his chance to show off with the 22 and 23 drafts. PC was looking good after last year, but a Super Bowl appearance would certainly bolster his argument to new ownership that he should stay. Pure speculation there, but it makes sense.

                • Peter

                  Not sure the league can rush her. I know fans kind of reach and grasp that “it’s a trust,” and other ideas.

                  You’ve got Irsay and Davis who inherited the team. The owner of the Saints is I believe the deceased owners Wife.

                  I do wish she’d sell. Having an owner who cares matters. Yes there’s bad owners. But indifferent is not much better. I’m a bit down on Bezos. As a child of a pre Amazon Seattle ( have the tile at the market with my name on it to prove it) I’d hope if he bought the team he’d really want to own it if that makes sense.

                  • Rob Staton

                    I think this is a different situation to Irsay and Davis though. Those teams were left specifically for those two individuals. As far as I’m aware, the Seahawks and Blazers were ‘not’ left to Jody Allen. In fact, the instructions are for both to be sold in due course.

                  • Peter

                    Rob I want a new owner ASAP.

                    I’m just not holding my breath on it. I’m sure it’s the same in the UK but in the states folks of inherited fortunes are often wildly more ridiculous than the people who got them in the first place.

                    • Rob Staton

                      I agree, I’m not holding my breath either.

                      But I’m also not thinking the worst. It’s very clear what the situation is. Paul wanted the teams sold. There is a barrier preventing the Seahawks from being sold which comes down in May 2024. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Carroll’s contract runs until 2025.

                      For me it seems to all be mapped out, that negotiations over a sale begin next summer and then within 12-18 months, a conclusion should be reached.

                • RKM-LouCityHawk

                  +1 to Rob’s comment

                  There are lots of generational teams (KC for one). Davis and Iraay represent different beasts. Irsay doesn’t really bother the NFL owners as much as Davis does. I could have mentioned Bidwell, as he is the next trouble spot, but a trickier replacement.

                  The NFL owners are in the business of trying to clean up their ownership into a curated group, a club if you like.

                  They aren’t in a hurry to put pressure on Allen to sell, but the Seahawks are a valuable franchise (top half), and they would like one of their preferred potential owners to obtain it. The Seahawks fan base trends younger (more valuable) and has more disposable income as well.

                  • Peter

                    I think this is all true.

                    However Seattle is in no way a train wreck organization. Thus why I think the NFL does not cast a long eye towards them. Hard to see meetings with the rooney’s, etc where they discus in earnest how that team with the great shots of the tossing fish once a year on prime time is a problem.

                    We win enough. We don’t get report cards like AZ about the worst facilities. She doesn’t ( to some of our chagrin) churn coaches to to the tune of 80 odd million in money owed. There’s no bombshell reports about Pete being a terrible person.

                    Here’s hoping next year they announce a sale.

                    But the dream of a great owner who cares is basically over. The NFL is an investment. The ideal of a civic minded owner for all major sports is basically done.

                    • Rob Staton

                      I think it’s wrong to focus on the NFL’s ‘desire’ for new ownership though, rather than Paul Allen’s wishes upon his death, which seem far more pertinent. He did not leave this team to his sister. I suspect she can’t just cling on to a highly valuable asset his lawyers have been given instructions over, nor do I think someone as successful as Paul Allen created a scenario where Vulcan can just squat on said asset. Especially because Allen intends the money received from both franchises to be given to causes he was highly, highly passionate about. The idea that instead of that, his sister just holds on to both teams, doesn’t pass the smell test to me.

                  • RKM-LouCityHawk

                    100% agree that Paul’s will is the driving force behind the sale, and why the team will likely be sold at the timeline Rob outlined above (start summer 2024, 12-18 month turnaround, maybe 6, but unlikely).

                    I also think that there is a familial desire to get the sale done, and done right.

                    My point about the NFL in choosing owners is that they are going to be keeping an eye on the Seahawks sale, and likely have preferred ownership groups in mind. They aren’t going to put pressure on, except and to the point that the situation in AZ, or LV/IND could require a quicker fix, and those assets are not as desirable.

                    There is a lot the NFL ownership wants, no Watson contracts, no breaks with the party line in the next CBA, owners who are in line with the goals for expansion and product branding and the like.

            • Peter

              My understanding was Dan Snyder was never going to sell to Bezos per WAPO and their coverage of him.

              • RMK-LouCityHawk

                The NFL has certain things they can start doing to force an owner out, Snyder would have sold to Bezos if another qualified bidder wasn’t there.

                You can see though, who has what groups lining up for franchises. A NFL franchise is a safe investment (used to be a great one). I imagine the Seahawks will have lots of bidders, some are certain to recruit former Seahawks as minority owners – Marshawn Lynch and Doug Baldwin being obvious candidates.

                • Peter

                  Here’s hoping on the minority owners.

    • Brodie

      That’s how I see it too. Although if Geno and Diggs don’t show some signs of life during the back half – I could see the cost-to-performance ratio being bad enough to bite the bullet.

  17. VanHawk

    Anyone catch Marshawn Lynch on smartless Podcast.

    Quite hilarious, especially all the things about PC.

  18. Peanut

    Give me 1 DT, 1 QB and one LB with the first three picks and pete can draft seven runningsbacks with the rest.

    Also, any chance for players being traded between Superbowl and draft night? I know i’d take a third for Adams.

    • Big Mike

      With that contract and injury history you wouldn’t get a 7th

      • Big Mike

        Although maybe I’m being too harsh on him. I mean after all, he’s gone from being the 62nd ranked Safety by PFF before the injuries to now being the 38th ranked Safety for that 18 million dollars per year so hey, he’s trending up.

        • RMK-LouCityHawk

          A more creative defensive coach could make good use of Prez, but Hurtt is not that coach.

          Trade chips: DK (No unless kings ransom), Taylor (why?), MJack (I guess)…everyone else is on the cuts list, has limited value, and the current regime won’t trade them.

          • Peter


            I honestly thought they were going to have him blitz, blitz, and blitz some more.

            Otherwise what is his value? As a safety who “does a lot of stuff that doesn’t show up in the box score?”

            • RMK-LouCityHawk

              You use him like AZ used that HoneyBadger guy, or like the space bros get used at UofCincy and now Minnesota.

              Of course, that’s why you don’t pay him a premium.

              • BK26

                Use him to create chaos.

                Problem is, he just isn’t disciplined enough. Kind of does his own thing too much. Say what you want about Honey Badger, but he isn’t slowing down chasing Mitchell like Jamal did last weekend.

  19. Julian L

    The Seahawks have just been mullered by the Ravens in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Surely if this is a copy cat league, it’s a no brainer to transfer resources from Safety into the the Offensive and Defensive lines this off season.

    • Rob Staton

      Quite, although we’ve been hoping for that for some time.

      • AlaskaHawk

        I remember a time when they did have an untested safety in the backfield. It was early in the season and probably someone else was injured. Anyway he had a terrible game and Pete never played him in the backfield again.

        I wish he would do the same with some of our current crew! lol

    • Big Mike

      You’re leaving Pete Carroll’s ego out of the equation Julian. He seems hell bent on proving his way is a way to build a championship team, even if it’s not the only way.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Also missing from this discussion is that unless you can pick a Tom Bradyesque quarterback, the new owner will probably want to pick their own man. Just because they are the boss.

        So first sign of sale, Pete Carroll isn’t allowed to extend expensive contracts, like say over 10 million a year.

  20. Big Mike

    I’d like to continue with Rob, Lou City, Peter (and anyone else that wants to jump in!) about the eventual sale of the franchise as the thread up above got too long to continue. I appreciate Rob that you’re confident she has to sell and in the long run, there’s no doubt you’re correct. However, she had a near perfect buyer for the Blazers in Knight (Oregon native, tons of money, redevelopment promise, etc.) and refused to sell. I’m basing my skepticism on her selling the Hawks after next season on that situation because it appears (key word) to me she can drag this out at least for another couple of years. Explain to me why that may not be relevant (in other words, talk me off the ledge).

    • AlaskaHawk

      If she is that hands off, the recommendations might be from attorneys who have a vested interest in stringing things along while they work on their billable hours.

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        Having known lawyers my whole life (my dad had multiple on retainer at all times) and having employed multiple attorneys myself every year for the last 20, I can tell you that most lawyers are interested in keeping your business and will write down their hours.

        My guess is that the army of lawyers dealing with one of the largest estates in US History are looking at this as an opportunity to add to their prestige, cement relationships, and are likely not stretching anything out.

    • cha

      I think it’s simply money.

      Forbes says every sports franchise they track have gone up an average of 74% in value the past 5 years. Many have doubled.


      Doubling every 5 years means gaining an average of 20% per year. On a franchise worth multiple billions, that could be up to a billion dollars a year in value gained.

      The city stadium deal deadline is coming up. They may even approach the city about stadium upgrades, which if they get them, will goose the franchise value even more. As the article stated, two things bring a big boost: winning a championship, and getting an added revenue stream of stadium money.

      But until then, they have very little incentive to do anything.

      It will be sold at some date. That is for sure. But another billion dollars to add to Allen’s portfolio of causes every year? It’s hard to slam the brakes on that.

      • Chris

        * slaps with whip *

        Bad Cha!

        Compounding isn’t additive like that. It’s closer to 14% (doubling a value after 5 years).

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      I honestly don’t know that much about the Blazers saga with Phil Knight and the Dodgers owner…only vague media reports and what I’ve read while looking into the Seahawks timeline. Rob may know more, or another forum member who has followed it closely.

      From what I understand, the first ownership offer was a buy low (made shortly following Paul’s death) thinking the league would force her to sell as the NBA does not allow trust ownership. This may have poisoned the well, but that is unlikely given Allen’s status on business. Knight came back with a much richer offer that hit snags in negotiations in 2023 causing the sides to walk away. My speculation is that there may be a desire for an open bid process, Knight may be leveraging the rumored return of the SuperSonics, all sorts of things. Bottom line is that the estate sale is likely to proceed at the same timeline as the Seahawks, or trailing slightly depending upon potential market factors that might drive up the price.

      The NFL’s ownership process has changed a lot from the earlier days of the league, and even from 20 years ago. It is clandestine, they are concerned about optics and personalities and people with disposable income. The NFL already has a good idea who the groups are who will be bidding for the Seahawks, certain investors may have been politely told to bow out, think smoke filled rooms and convos made for TV dramas.

      Unlike Knight’s approach, the NFL is content to sit back and wait to hear the estate is ready to sell (many franchises are held in trust for tax reasons, fyi), any potential owner who broke ranks and tried to buy outside that process might find themselves frozen out.

      Both assets are appreciating assets, gaining in value. If we assume the estate wants to get maximum value for two of its Crown Jewels, the selling point will not be a fire sale, rather a sale at the top of the market.

      Consider the 2025 Seahawks, a young team filled with 3 strong drafts, plenty of young stars, a clean cap situation, a notable history, a dedicated fan base that skews younger and affluent. Pete Carroll is even sitting there should the new owner desire to try and retain his services. This isn’t just a regional interest, this is a potential $10B investment into an appreciating asset. Given what we understand the will states, why would it settle for $6B if $10B is possible? That is funny money to our brains.

      I suspect that the Blazers might be going through a similar process of positioning for maximum value, I suspect that having the NBA’s rumored expansion completed would raise the value of the Blazers significantly. Assume you are the trustee, why take $2B if you can let your asset appreciate while taking care of the related activities needed, with it potentially doubling in value?

      Knight is a powerful person who is skilled at manipulating the media, if the Trail Blazers are his goal, he probably wants them under market, and does not want to bid against other billionaires, especially not ones who might have just lost out on other expansion teams and might drive up the price because they really don’t want to be outbid again. So Knight is going to make it sound like Allen will never sell, and is jeopardizing the teams future in PDX, because public pressure might make her sell for less than a premium. Or, it might strengthen her resolve.

      Summation: there is a wealth of evidence pointing to the Seahawks being sold in 2025, there is nothing that can be pointed to that suggests the sale won’t happen.

      *not that I wouldn’t mind another 5 years to try and Stephen Ross myself into purchasing contention 😉

      • Big Mike

        OK, as you and cha both stated, sitting longer means more money makes sense. Of course Alaska saying billable hours for attorneys has a sad logic as well LOL.

        • Peter

          Loucity makes great points.


          I’ll stand on two quotes from 2023 until further notice.

          “There is no timeline for a sale of either team.”

          “It can take 10 to 20 years to wind down the assets.”

          • RMK-LouCityHawk

            I’d look at what CHA wrote above.

            2025 is a year that the Seahawks could be sold for $10B – that is a lot of cash to fund a charity.

            If she is getting advice that the Blazers are undervalued right now, she might wait it out, with an appreciating asset, to maximize value. Especially when that added value starts with Billions.

            Another way to think of it, imagine you own a rental property that gets good income, it covers its bills, turns a small profit, and you have no great need to sell it. Now you decide that you’d like to sell it to fund your lifelong charity idea of Luggage for Orphans. You could flip your property right now, but it is the middle of winter, the market is down, and interest rates are sky high. You talk to your realtor and they say, wait until next summer, interest rates are supposed to drop, you’ll get an extra 20%. What would you do?

            • Big Mike

              You could flip your property right now, but it is the middle of winter, the market is down, and interest rates are sky high. You talk to your realtor and they say, wait until next summer, interest rates are supposed to drop, you’ll get an extra 20%.

              And that’s exactly the approach I’m taking with selling my parents’ house. They had to go into assisted living but between a savings/retirement account and long term care insurance it should be easy to get through the winter and wait to put the house up when the weather is better, more people are wanting to buy and hopefully interest rates fall.

            • Peter

              I’m all about it. And I have much much respect for CHA.

              I also think we should put it to bed because I’ve wanted a sale forever and heck they could begin the search in serious now, and just add points to the sake to cover the cost of what is owed to the state/city.

              But until they go ahead and sell or say they are selling I’m pretty indifferent to it as an idea.

  21. AlaskaHawk

    On a different subject, one of the NFL power rankings have the Seahawks at #12 and say this:

    “Many of the Seahawks’ problems Sunday can be attributed to the Ravens, who did the same things to the Lions a few weeks ago. But one thing that needs to be fixed is DK Metcalf. The Seahawks have one of the best receivers in the NFL and he’s not having nearly the impact he should. He has a middling 28-454-2 line this season. Metcalf had one catch on Sunday. The Seahawks need to get him more targets and catches. Getting him back on track is the difference between the Seahawks competing with the 49ers for a division title or falling out of that race.”

    I know the Seahawks have many more problems than Metcalf, but they do have a point about how he is just not getting used. I think because he has a hard time separating from defenders and they put their best defenders on him and Lockett. So how could he get open? Maybe more crossing routes ?

    • cha

      Literally every skill player on the Seahawks is off their career pace to date. Metcalf, Lockett, Walker, all 3 of the TEs.

      They need to solve their third down problem. It gives everyone 3+ more chances for touches.

      Pete Carroll said Monday they had a whole sheet of plays they couldn’t get into because they couldn’t convert 3rds.

      • Ashish

        It is common knowledge by now that if you have 3rd 10 or more your success rate is way less to make irrespective of who you have as WR or TE.
        Why do we have 3rd and long? Hawks always try to go big instead of trying < 10-yard throws or running the ball more. Yes, we played some good run defense so why we don't try to run from left or right to give a play a chance.
        The offense has changed in the last 10 years under Carrol. Earlier I was pissed why we run-run-run even we use to get 2 or 3 yards. But that gave the team enough opportunity to make 3rd down. Also, defense gets worked out a lot later offense can take advantage of it. Play action is nowhere to be seen :(.

      • Big Mike

        And how much of this is simply a QB problem?

        • cha

          Bad throw % is 21st in the NFL
          On target % is 26th

          • Dubb

            Here’s a thought: instead of waiting to convert a 3rd down with a pass to Metcalf; try getting the ball to him on 1st or 2nd down and never getting to a 3 rd down.

            • Ashish

              Yes, and by now all 31 teams know on 3rd down, throws go to JSN. Are you freaking serious how can you be so poor in the game plan?

          • Big Mike

            So a good portion then

    • GrittyHawk

      My one fear with that though is that we have tried force-feeding him the ball before and it was disastrous. Yes he needs more targets, but Waldron only seems capable of dialing up WR screens when he wants to get a player involved, like what we’ve seen with JSN this year. He needs to call more plays where DK is the primary target in the intermediate range, not just handing him the ball and praying to the YAC gods he breaks a tackle (and doesn’t fumble).

  22. Scott

    Rob, I apologize if I’ve missed this, but because there’s no way a rookie QB will be the starter next year, bet me, who in the NFL will be available and an upgrade from Geno? Thanks

      • RMK-LouCityHawk

        I see 6 names on there I’d view as acceptable if the contract was right.

        • cha

          It’s less about an “upgrade from Geno” than it is about paying far, far less for very similar production while a rookie is developed behind the scenes.

          • RMK-LouCityHawk


            And I’m sure every younger QB thinks if they can ball out for one year that might land them a bigger contract, and every older QB is happy to get another payday.

          • Brodie

            Exactly. Paying $33M for 9 TD & 9 TO’s and a 56.2 QBR is the other side of it.

            If you’re going to get that production – at least don’t pay out the nose for it (see also: Diggs, Jamal, etc)

            Pretty much exactly what the article laid out. A QB who does what Geno is doing for $5M/year IS an upgrade.

      • Romeo A57

        Brisett, Mariota, Lock, Mayfield etc. @ 5M per year is better than Geno @ 31M per year. Geno is probably a better QB then everyone here except Cousins, who is going to get paid a lot more than the others.

        Geno just isn’t 25M more against the salary cap better. Would Geno making 10M per season be more reasonable and sound more acceptable?

    • BK26

      No one.

      That was easy. They have to draft a guy. That is their route, that is their only option. Nice and simple.

    • RMK-LouCityHawk

      May have misinterpreted your comment

      I guarantee a rookie QB will start next year.

      Will a rookie QB be the opening day starter for the Seahawks? Highly doubtful, but not outside the realm of possibility.

    • Ashish

      Zach Willson has a good arm, his decision-making is not the best but when your receiver keeps dropping catches it can be difficult. I will trade like 5th round for Wilson and give him a try.

      • BK26

        Get me a veteran. I don’t want any wasted time on the retreads of other teams. That is our current situation. We need to get our guy and put in a situation that is best for them. Bring in someone that they can pick up anything from.

        I also think a 5th (or 6th, even a 7th) is more valuable that trading it for Wilson.

        • Peter

          Yeah we need to keep the picks and stop spending them.

          • Ashish

            I mean we have the top 5 pick still we were not able to draft QB of our choice, so not sure how we are going to draft QB. Hopefully, we have QB available when we pick.

            • Peter

              Mortgage future picks?

              Time machine and draft Levis.

              Can’t keep going with retreads.

            • BK26

              You move up. No mid or late round picks. No getting cheap. Seriously invest and put up actual assets. Guys like Wilson have already failed. The team already is more than capable of misusing picks.

              • DC1234

                Does anyone here think the Seahawks should trade their 2025 1st round pick to move up to get the QBOTF?

                Do they have enough talent/depth in the roster to do such a trade?

                I think they should. Can’t continues with Geno. Or the free agent route.

                • BK26

                  Absolutely. Whatever they need to do. Find your guy and make sure you get him. They can’t afford to wait any longer.

                  • Ashish

                    They really missed the opportunity to draft Levis, with 1st round and he was available twice.

                  • Peter

                    Not a big fan of the idea that there is this vast array of castoffs who won a ring?

                    This has got to be an all timer of a bad take when I read that.

                • Peter

                  If they need to.

                  Like Rob always mentions no one in Chiefs land cares about that missing first to get Mahomes.

                  Doubt many Bills fans care about the two 2nds they spent for him.

                  Maybe it takes both the thirds this year?

                  As fans of the draft we’d hate it and yep there are holes to fill. There is nothing more important than a qb. A “battle,” with 33 million Geno and other is not going to cut it. Unless he absolutely sets the world on fire from here on out.

  23. JimQ

    After that embarrassing loss, why isn’t there more talk about the ineffective DC-Hurt? The Seahawks were totally unprepared for that beat down & had very, very few defensive positives for the whole damn game. I’m starting to think that the Seahawks defense needs more actual starters rather than mostly a bunch of overpaid backups, many of which are below average at their best. I can only hope the team gets sold ASAP, time for some new, fresh coaching & in PC’s case, younger eyes that aren’t stuck in the past.

    • Romeo A57

      The Seahawks Defense has been below average for 5+ years with multiple DCs. Continue to over pay for average to beliw average stareter, look at the Safety position.Nothing new there.

      The Offense being unable to sustain drives with a bunch of exciting weapons is much more concerning. It is much more interesting to talk about Geno Smith turning from a borderline Pro Bowl QB into Geno Smith Draft Bust.

      • Big Mike

        The Seahawks Defense has been below average for 5+ years with multiple DCs

        And what’s the one constant in all of that?

        • geoff u

          Clearly it’s, Michael Dickson. Darn kickers!

  24. whit21

    Looking at some of Spencer Rattlers play. He could be a decent pickup even for late first round. Since the hawks dont have their 2nd round pick anymore. I think he could be a better QB than Will Levis TBH.

    WR Xavier LaGette could be another 2nd rounder that could maybe come in a replace DK Metcalf if the hawks decide to trade him for draft capital. He kinda jumps at you watching some of the SC games.

  25. Peter

    Brock talking about a tough decision at the end of the year about geno if he keeps playing like he is….

    On today’s brock and Salk show.

    • Rob Staton

      Their conversations about Geno have been very interesting the last two days. They’re discussing the important topics.

      • Peter

        Yeah saw Stacy bringing it up just slightly as well.

        Probably good to get people less stunned if it goes on.

        Better than Wyman and Co talking about fixes. Sure they’d be great but we’re going into the final half of the season. Time to be slightly honest about things.

        Even heard Rang last night sigh and say the resign meter is moving away if this continues.

        • Rob Staton

          Good — this shouldn’t even be a controversial topic. It is what it is. This would be a talking point for 31/31 of the other teams if they were in our situation.

  26. Hawkster

    Just a bunch of captain obvious, but plays being successful makes for successful play calling. A successfull screen or two gets in the head of every defender regardless of scheme. People do not like to get burned again by what just burned them. The OC knows and can play off the success of plays to leverage the response to those plays into the next play. The defense is off balance, and a good OC keeps them off balance. Its easiest when the offense has a true strength to setup the initial success, force the respose, and start all those sheets of plays PC lamented. SEA lacks a reliable strength to build from, lacks the successes that force a defense to conpensate, consider or over react. When there is little or no bread and butter it is hard to assign things to play calling, there is just no shaping of the opposing defense. That said, they had what …13 running plays split between their two R2 running backs? Did I count that right? Sure the narrative was that the only hppe was to go after BAL secondary, but being a throw first team with Geno, never seperate DK, out of synch JSN, etc just begs the defense to just play the obvious. Who honors a play action when you cant (or dont) run, who does anything if they have not been forced to do anything. In the end it comes down to initial execution, starting with Geno, and it aint there. Absent leadership from the QB the youve got to run the damn ball. Either the QB establishes the threat (he seems unable) or RBs do. It is miserable to watch.

  27. John

    Thanks so much for a great write up, Rob. Super insightful as always. The amount of “overpaying for pretty good” this roster does is frustrating.

    Do you think it’s possible to construct a roster where you front load the cap hits, rather than push them down the road? Certainly it would cramp flexibility in the short term, but I’m wondering if it’s even conceptually possible to structure your cap space such that players became easier to keep as the contract went on because the cap hit was low, or similarly easier to release because of the lack of dead money.

    • cha

      I could write a novel on this.

      That’s the way the Seahawks worked contracts in the days where they actually home-grew a lot of talent and gave them 2nd and even 3rd extensions.

      Then the draft well dried up. Then they had to spend like drunken sailors to fill holes, which makes them beholden to the player’s wishes. Then the QB market exploded. Then the pandemic hit and the cap actually went down before going back up.

      It became a 5-year cascading effect, and it would take stripping away the bloated contracts to reset to what you’re talking about. Extensions for Cross, Woolen, Mafe, etc that are front-loaded.

      But now, instead of swallowing hard and cutting players like Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs, they’ve actually doubled down by pushing gobs of money into 2024, which means it will impact next year and very likely 2025 as well.

      • Big Mike

        But now, instead of swallowing hard and cutting players like Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs, they’ve actually doubled down by pushing gobs of money into 2024, which means it will impact next year and very likely 2025 as well.

        Why do you think that is Curtis? Other folks? Is it as many suggest, a last desperate attempt by Pete to get a ring? Is it just really bad drafting and roster mgmt? All of the above?

        • Bmseattle

          It seems to me that moves like that are made out of perceived necessity….ultimately caused by a series of bad drafts that didn’t lead to young, promising (and cheap) players that can fill the roles of good but overpriced veterans.

          The poor drafting also led to desperate trades for veterans to fill roles.
          Desperate trades for veterens leads to pricey contracts.

          But ultimately, it shows a lack of faith in their ability to find young talent.
          As we’ve addressed ad nauseum, the money they dumped into the saftey position is criminal.
          Clearly they felt they *had* to do it…but why?
          Perhaos the failed Tedric pick scared them so.much that they lost faith in their ability to find a decent FS?
          I dont know man…its baffling.
          Ultimately, it reeks of fear and a lack of confidence in their own ability to find talent.

      • John

        It would be interesting to go back to like 2016-2017 as the LOB was falling off and run a simulation where you reconstruct the roster. You’d have to keep it honest and base roster decisions on the consensus before a given FA signs (rather than using hindsight), and you can only sign FA’s to deals numerically equivalent to what they got, and then front load. Trading away a player like Sherm, you’d have to find a comparable pick so it doesn’t turn into hindsight fantasy. I think you could justify not taking McDowell because the purpose on the redo is to focus on the type of attitudes and characters we’ve seen recently, but you don’t get to weasel out of Kam and Cliff because they were the obvious players to resign.

        Or just look back through this blog and see what Rob would have done. It might only be a few more years before he’s whisked away to a front office to do this for big $$

  28. AlaskaHawk

    At some point when you realize this isn’t working, you just need to reset and let the team suck for a year to get to the top of the draft board. Reset meaning dumping most of the people listed in Robs report.

    1. Dump Geno Smith, one safety, Will Dissley and Eskridge for over 40 million/year in savings.

    2. Draft not for a quarterback but for linemen and defensive secondary.

    3. Let the team suck for 2024. Play Ahlers. I’m not even giving Lock a chance, since none of us think he is worth a chance. This team will never get to the superbowl with the current drafting and veteran schemes going on. Play Ahlers and let the chips fall where they will.

    4. Going into 2025 the team will hopefully have all their draft picks and they will be in the top 5.

    For all those saying they will never suck for Luck. Then quit whining about their lack of production. We been watching this for over 10 years. What is happening now will never work and in two more years we will be right back to where they started if they don’t do an actual reset.

    • BK26

      I agree with some of this.

      You need lull years/need to not be scared of them. You don’t have to go for it every year. Sometimes it is like watching a 13 year old think that he can play basketball against the varsity team. The Saints had middling years with Brees. Sometimes it is getting younger guys more time, sometimes it is getting through contracts for another year.

      As of right now, DRAFT A QUARTERBACK. Has to be done. In the first round after the LW trade. I don’t think the offensive line is a giant problem. They need to get some new pieces, but injuries happen. And they haven’t been a giant problem until last week. Doesn’t help when your starting quarterback is playing timid and your offensive coordinator can’t make any adjustments when the game starts. I say that Geno and Waldron are the offensive like problem.

      They don’t need to just tank next year. They need to be out there still trying. Tanking is too detrimental. And Ahlers…would be lucky to start in Canada. I don’t want to hear his name anymore. People talk like he should be on the active roster when he really shouldn’t even be on the practice squad. There is nothing to him.

      If you earn a top 5 pick, then there are bigger problems going on usually. The team has enough pieces but they are just pretty unrealistic with where they are compared to where they think they are. It’s not “always compete,” it is “if we believe it hard enough, it will happen.”

      You aren’t always competing after the Rams game and last weekend.

    • geoff u

      This is what we all kinda thought was going to happen, and expected to happen, in the first post-Wilson year. We all expected a bad team, a terrible year, and were ok with it. Instead Geno played well out the gate and everyone deluded themselves into thinking we had a good team that could be a great. All it’s done really is kick the can down the road two more years. Problem is, all those great draft picks are two years older and will be looking for new contracts, so we need to continue to draft well. But now we’re trading away future picks in the futile hope we’ll win the Super Bowl this year. This team is a catch 22 and it’s kinda depressing.

      • AlaskaHawk

        It’s also both nice and sad that the Seahawks are giving a fairwell tour to Bobby Wagner and Frank Clark. I hope they keep Tyler Lockett right up until retirement. The circle turns my friends, best not to be ground up in it.

        So on thoughts about tanking being detrimental, yes maybe so. But it’s not that great being caught up where the Seahawks are at, which is making the playoffs and then at best one win if you get a beast quake moment. That is way cool and worth it. But those moments are historic.

        Seems like the biggest anxiety is those teams that are picking quarterbacks year after year and not finding anyone else. Which is where we are starting at soon but Pete will pull another rabbit out of his hat and find Mr. Right. lol yes indeed I’m feeling optimistic now!

        • geoff u

          I’m fine with saying farewell the first time a player leaves. They came back pretty cheap though, so I’m fine with them back too. Meh, whatever. I’m not a sucker for nostalgia, I want to win championships now not wax poetic about one ten years ago.

          What concerns me is Pete and John and the fans think we have a great team, thus the Williams trade, when it’s clear to me we don’t and haven’t had one for quite some time. We have a mediocre to above average team that can’t do anything in the playoffs. We’re stuck in a rut and change is needed. If it’s not going to come at the top, and it seems apparent it’s not (at least until the team sells), then it needs to happen at the QB position. Clearly they can’t be trusted to build a defense or run game anymore, so a franchise QB is all that’s left to pin any hopes on.

    • Romeo A57

      We are all pretty sure that Smith and Lock are never going to be high-end Starting Quarterbacks. I can’t get behind starting Ahlers for a year. I get it would be a full tank move, but it sounds like a way to piss off every player on the Seahawks by purposely starting a QB who probably isn’t even good enough to be a second-string QB on most rosters. You can’t expect players to play hard if the team were to do such an obvious tank move.

      Seahawks need to draft a QB in 2024, I would prefer trying to get the best available but would understand if it was a lower pick. If that QB doesn’t look like the guy, then draft another QB in 2025. Keep drafting a QB each year until you get at least an average level QB on a cheap contract that you can build around l.

      • AlaskaHawk

        The Seahawks will be lucky to pick in the top 3 of quarterbacks. So who do you like that isn’t highly rated?

        • BK26

          Then maybe they need to move up. It has to be done. Find your guy and do what you need to to get him.

        • Romeo A57

          They should trade up if their guy is available. An elite QB should be every team’s goal. Trying to win games with 25M dollar Safties and UDFA QBs is not the way to go. Great Quarterbacks cover up a lot of holes in a roster. Cheap rookies make roster building much easier.

          I get that any QB draft pick is a high risk, but there is no other way to long term success and contending almost every year.

  29. Thomas

    Pete tried to rush things.

  30. j

    Potential resigns for more than vet min.
    Williams, Wagner, Brooks, Lewis.

    Lewis: Joe Thuneys first year cap hit was 4.5mm. Lewis is good but not Thuney good, so lets forecast him at about 4mm cap hit in first year.

    Brooks: Shaq Leonards first year cap hit is 8.2mm, Roquon Smith is at 9mm. Like Brooks but doubt he gets a contract that big. So lets pen him at 8mm first year cap hit.

    Wagner: pen him in for the same cap hit as this year, not much has changed. Lets say another 7mm cap hit.

    Willaims: the first year of his last deals cap hit was 9.4mm. Lets say he gets a similar deal and put him at 10mm.

    So if you go with Parkinson and Edwards at a combined 4mm, and resign the rest of the squad, erring on the side of bigger contracts thats 33.5mm.

    After the reasonable cuts above you would need another 3mm from somewhere. You would also need a bit of money to sign whatever FA you wanted.

    Everyone else can go.

    Haynes is replaced by Bradford. Brown is replaced by Olu. We are not using Fant enough to justify paying him anything significant and I think he will get bigger offers to teams where he will play a bigger role. Lock should be replaced by a draft pick, unless he replaces Smith.

  31. Peter

    Yet again thanks the stars for Rob’s time, effort, and the folks here.

    Watched a “what’s wrong with the hawks,” thing on YouTube. Decent. Commented team is soft, no identity, etc, the basics. Nothing inflammatory. Even tried to make apeace with the cult of Geno by saying “he’s a problem right now but hardly the whole problem….” simple stuff.

    And got told my comment is idiotic…because the professional mathmeter I was going to engage with tells me…

    The run defense is great. If you take out Cleveland which was a *great* 4 yds a carry….just ya know 40 freakin’ times of that.

    And the explosive runs. And what the Ravens do with Lamar….we’re actually really good!!!!

    Why are people so desperate. It reminds me of when Shaun Alexandar fell off a cliff and the team was running Sene-cat plays.

    It’s like yes let’s be better, let’s get better scheme etc, but let us also be honest for a second.

  32. Phil

    For those who are not living in the greater Seattle area or who do not follow Seattle sports other than the Seahawks, a little context might offer some insight into the Leonard Williams trade and the “win now” philosophy of Pete Carroll, John Schneider, and Jodie Allen.

    Even though the Mariners season ended more than a month ago, fans and the Seattle media are still ripping Mariner management for not being aggressive as the MLB trade deadline approached. Instead of making a significant trade to upgrade the baseball club, the Mariner management was content to stay with what they had and to hope that things would get better. So, after the success they had in 2022– making the playoffs for the first time in eons — the team once again was stuck in mediocrity and failed to make the postseason.

    The same thing appears to be happening with the Kraken NHL team. The 2022 team surprised the pundits by making the playoffs and winning in the first round. The hope was that Kraken management would open the checkbook and find one or two big names to fill out the roster this year and to give the season ticket holders a reason to continue to pay big $$ for their entertainment. But, like the Mariners management, this didn’t happen and the Kraken seem to have taken a big set backwards this season.

    So, given this background, what would you do if you were PC, JS, or Jodie Allen and the pressures build to make a move to (hopefully) improve the Seahawks and thereby retain fans as the date to sell the team approaches? Would you sit back and hope that the 2024 draft leads to significant improvement and that the fans will remain content to wait? Or, would you be aggressive and trade draft picks to improve the odds of winning now?

    I’m not a fan of the Williams trade, but I am a fan who is happy to see that Seahawks management is not content to wait until next year ….

    • Peter

      Right now Seattle ranks a bit above or below 20th overall in the following areas:

      Run defense yards allowed
      Pass defense yards allowed
      Points allowed per game ( best stat at 17th overall)

      Runs yards per game
      Pass yards per game
      Points scored per game

      Win now?

      I’d sing the praises of the youth movement and sell a fairly content fan base that “we are building something here.”

      It’s not just Rob and the commenters here. Not many folks had Seattle as ready to win the big one this year.

      Ravens, chiefs, bengals, probably the bills…not sure how Seattle gets to the superbowl with our current metrics playing the easiest part of our schedule let alone competes against the afc if we get there.

      Had Williams been a second round pick on a fair contract maybe….

      But he’s not and there’s three outcomes from the trade:

      1. They open up the wallet because they feel they need to for an aging player who is maybe good but years removed from great.

      2. He walks to a team with a bigger check written out. Waste of a pick.

      3. He gets Jarran Reed money which is fine but we could have given him that in a few months and kept the pick.

      • geoff u

        Very underwhelming stats, along with two blowouts, during the easiest part of our schedule. I’m kinda dreading what’s to come. Hopefully Pete will at least make things competitive but when I check the magic 8 ball it keeps telling me, “Outlook not so good.”

        • Peter

          Read your above comment and yep the frustration is just a total lack of honesty about what we are.

          At least in ’10, ’11 no one knew what we’d become and it was fun to see.

          Having to pin all our hopes on a top qb to make up for the deficits is really discouraging. Though needed.

    • DC1234

      We are not upset with the aggressive move to trade for LW if the seahawks are a contender. They are not in the same class as the Eagles and Niners. LW will not move the needle for them to jump pass those two teams.

      We all loved the percy havin trade in 2012 because the seahawks at that time was 30 seconds from going to the nfc championship game against the niners. Which we stomped them during the regular season game.

      The mariners are known to be a cheap ownership. But this year’s trade deadline, they were pretty much out of the playoff contention. Im upset they didnt add strong pieces during the offseason when they were in every game against the world champs Astros in the divisonal round..

      Worst is in 2001, the mariners didnt add any bats during the trade deadline. Their old owner didnt care about the team winning. Just profit. They didnt go all in during the historical 116 win season.

    • Rob Staton

      Who was pressuring the Seahawks to make a move though? I don’t know anyone who was demanding a big deadline day trade.

      Mariners fans demanding moves think they’re ready now. The Seahawks aren’t ready now. Thus, making a bold trade now isn’t ‘not being content to wait’ it’s misjudging how close you are and squandering resources on a rental then getting hopelessly exposed as not being close to completing the build.

    • BK26

      I really hope that they aren’t letting the fickleness of fans sway them into trading and making moves.

      I want them to be smart and realistic. I don’t want them thinking that they can take dirt and make gold. They can think that doing “this move” or “that move” fixes everything, but that doesn’t mean that they are right.

      I’m not a fan of the trade. The pick was more valuable and it put the team in a worse overall spot, with more cap issues. I’m not a fan of them making a move to prove that they want to win. They have to be smart and stick to the plan, not ruin it all by getting too excited after one week, just to see it all blow apart 7 days later.

      The team will sell for a stupid amount of money no matter what. What happens with wins and losses between now and then matters little, there are a minute list of buyers and it is the biggest flex for someone rich. You get more fans by winning a Super Bowl, not being a middling team with no plan.

    • GoHawks5151

      Robbie Ray = Jamal Adams (Good, expensive but injured)
      Carlos Santana = Jason Peters. (Old and wise)
      Geno Smith = Ty France (Was hot now they not)
      Jarred Kelenic = Dee Eskridge (Talented and can’t put it together, team trying to replace)
      Julian Love = Kolten Wong (Good somewhere else, bad here)
      Cal Raleigh = Anthony Bradford (Young, big ass)

  33. cha

    From Curtis Allen (@curtis93969): Geno Smith will not reach his salary escalators this year with his performance dipping so much from 2022 (yes, with some OL issues to be sure). Do you see the Seahawks either keeping him next year, cutting him or renegotiating his contract to get some cap relief?


    Curtis, I see Geno Smith being a Seahawk in 2024, no question. He’s played well on balance. He’s a great locker-room guy. And even if you do wind up drafting a quarterback for the future in April, the team is in position to win right now, so having Smith as your starter while a rookie acclimates would make a ton of sense, too.


    • Peter

      Tell narratives are more important than information without telling me….

      He’s played well on balance.

      No. He literally has not.

      I know the league is fickle and the gulf between great, good, mediocre, and poor can be as slight as a hairs width or as wide as that Channel.

      A near 1:1 ratio and pretty mild yards is not “well on balance.”

      But I think he’s right. I 100% see the team paying him 33 million next year for one more chance to “run it back.”

      Sometimes I wonder why we even talk about Geno here. If you’ve even a fan for a few years you know there’s no onus to set a course.

    • BK26

      Pretty lazy answer. Not surprised.

      No mention of how he fits in the cap, and in position to win what? Maybe the West? If we start playing much better against the hardest remaining schedule in the league?

      • Peter

        Is there a team with a higher “leadership in the locker room/veteran presence,” vs. Dawgs that get after it on the field ratio in the league?

        I listen to enough football stuff and I rarely hear about this locker room leader stuff to the degree I do with the hawks. Yeah every team has some of course you need it.

        But that’s getting to be a weird thing where it’s almost the only positive you can say about a lot of the roster.

        • geoff u

          The only reason Patrick Lavon Mahomes II is still on the Chiefs is because of he’s a great locker room guy, he really brings little else to the table.

          • Sea Mode


    • geoff u

      Well that’s one way to make people throw up their mouths a little

    • Rob Staton

      With respect to Breer, I suspect this is a national guy not totally au fait with what’s actually happening here. The conventional thinking nationally still seems to be with Geno, ‘great story, playing well, didn’t write back etc, he’s the guy’. He’s projected to finish the season with 19 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. If that happens, he aint coming back for $31/33m next year. No way.

  34. Jeff

    The best part is that the cap situation in 2025 is even worse!

  35. Mike Bara

    OK, I’d add Brian Mone and Jason Meyers to this list and have $122 million to spend. Draft a QB1 and spend the rest on mid-range position players. Also, fire Pete and John.

    • Rob Staton

      Bryan Mone was already included in the article and his cap saving was accounted for

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