Consider this scenario. The Seahawks miss out on Julius Thomas and the New Orleans Saints aren’t willing to trade Jimmy Graham. Jordan Cameron signs for the Dolphins. You’re stuck at #31 trying to find a dynamic receiver or tight end for your offense.
You’ve scouted the players, you’ve studied who’s likely to be available. Nobody really fits the bill. The only chance you’ve got to fill this hole is to trade up. Go after one of the big three — Amari Cooper, Kevin White or Devante Parker. In yesterday’s two-round mock draft they were all off the board by pick #14. To move up from #31, you might have to try and get into the top ten. A jump of 21 picks.
It’s not such an unrealistic quandary. The Seahawks did miss out on Julius Thomas. There are serious concerns about Jordan Cameron’s health. Without the Graham deal, you face the prospect of forcing a receiver pick at #31 or trying to move up.
They had to address this need.
To move from #9 to #4 last year, Buffalo gave up a future first and fourth rounder. That was just to move up five spots. Imagine the price tag to jump more than twenty places? Especially in a draft with 15-18 prospects with first round grades.
At the very least you’d be looking at a Julio Jones type deal. In 2011 Atlanta moved from #27 to #6, giving up their second and fourth rounder plus a first and fourth rounder in 2012. The total cost for Jones? Two first rounders, a second rounder and a fourth rounder.
To add Kevin White, for example, that’s the bare minimum Seattle would have to spend. All for a player with one season of solid college production. A rookie — trying to make his name and get to the all important second contract.
The Seahawks gave up much less for a proven commodity. One pick for one player. In this instance the value of a perceived top-ten rookie is much greater than the value of a 28-year-old elite player. It doesn’t really seem right.
It’s not even worth considering the loss of Max Unger as part of this deal. The Saints gave the Seahawks a fourth rounder — this is essentially Unger for a fourth and Graham for a first. You might argue Unger is worth more than a fourth rounder — the Seahawks still swapped their first pick for one of the top-two X-factor tight ends in the league.
If this trade flops like the Percy Harvin deal, what has it cost you? A late first rounder — essentially a second round prospect in this class. The Graham trade, unlike the Harvin deal, doesn’t even include any future compensation in next years draft. It’s all in the here and now. If it’s a disaster, there are no lasting repercussions.
If Sammy Watkins flops, it costs the Bills three picks including two first rounders. If the Seahawks wanted to go all-in on Cooper, White or Parker — it would’ve cost them at least two first rounders, a second rounder and an extra pick or two.
When you consider it in these terms, how can you not describe the deal as a bargain? Obviously none of the players drafted in the late first will possess Graham’s unique physical talent or production. They’ll be younger. That’s it.
Fans love to see first round picks spent on rookies. That’s just the way it is. Had the Seahawks acquired Graham on his current contract as a free agent, it’d receive universal approval. The fact they’ve spent a first rounder suddenly adds a layer of doubt or suspicion for some. It shouldn’t. Every early pick is some kind of gamble. Even the perceived ‘safe’ prospects bust — look at Aaron Curry. Taking a chance on Graham is far less risky than taking a chance on the fourth, fifth or sixth rookie receiver in the 2015 draft. It doesn’t mean it’ll work out, but it’s much less of a gamble.
Seattle’s biggest need this off-season was an X-factor in the passing game. They’ve added one of the NFL’s biggest (literally) playmakers for the price of one solitary pick. It would’ve cost so much more to trade up for an unproven equivalent in the draft. That’s pretty remarkable when you think about it.
Free agency thoughts
We’re well into the second phase now. We’re still seeing some sizable contracts (eg Ron Parker’s $30m extension with Kansas City) but things are slowing down. This is when you usually find the value. We’ve already seen Washington pick up Terrance Knighton on a bargain $4m one-year contract.
There are plenty of defensive tackles facing a similar situation. Vince Wilfork, Randy Starks, B.J. Raji, Kevin Williams, Letroy Guion and Red Bryant could be in for a wait. There are less options at defensive end — Greg Hardy will eventually get a deal. Michael Johnson will sign with Cincinnati or Minnesota. The next best available is Dwight Freeney.
The most appealing option for the Seahawks could be Randy Starks, as we’ve discussed previously.
There are lots of options at corner — Tramon Williams for example remains unsigned. It’s perhaps unlikely the Seahawks would consider another veteran here after adding Cary Williams and Will Blackmon.
Greg Jennings was cut today by Minnesota, adding to the options at receiver. It just seems like an unnecessary expense to add an ageing wide out to the current group. Is that what Seattle needs? Especially with the recent addition of Graham and a talent-rich draft at the position.
Really it comes down to the offensive line. It seems like they want to add a veteran, that’s why they met with Shelley Smith (signed with the Broncos) and Stefen Wisniewski. It’ll have to fit into the limited price bracket. The Seahawks chose not to convert Jimmy Graham’s bonus before the deadline (a move that would’ve saved $3.3m in 2015). They could still approach Brandon Mebane to take a pay cut. They have limited funds to spend (possibly $3-5m only) because they need to earmark money for expected contract extensions for Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner.
Wisniewski can’t expect to earn as much as Rodney Hudson ($8m) — not at this stage of free agency. He’ll likely take other visits. It’s whether another team steps up to the plate offering a better opportunity (difficult) or more money (not so difficult). If he doesn’t sign they move on — much like they did with Jared Allen and Henry Melton a year ago. If they don’t add a veteran, however, it’ll make for a very youthful offensive line in 2015 — including possibly two rookie starters and a second year right tackle (Justin Britt).
For that reason a veteran addition seems likely but not guaranteed. It’s all down to value. Last year Allen and Melton got the tempting offers. We’ll see what happens with Wisniewski.
The Graham trade value should also note the signing of Maxwell by Philly likely gives the Hawks a 3rd round pick in 2016. Had they signed Julius Thomas or Jordan Cameron, they’d have lost that pick, or at least lost a pick. And signing Cary Williams, who was cut by the Eagles, doesn’t count in the compensatory equation.
Sign Julius Thomas, you’d keep the 1st rounder but the cap hit would be similar, so you’d probably have to cut Unger, and you don’t get the Saints 4th rounder or the compensatory 3rd rounder.
All fair points JC.
I agree with Rob here. Really good points JC.
Good point about the compensatory pick, but I don’t believe we should assume that Unger could not have been dealt for a pick. Recall that the Graham trade sprang from the Saints calling about Unger. Grubb has a more burdensome deal and was dealt for a fifth rounder. Seattle may have wanted to free itself of Unger’s deal (although $4.5 million isn’t that expensive, so I don’t fully credit the post-trade whispers that Max would have been cut) but Unger was not without value.
Unger and Mebane have both been on the periphery of cap discussions for over a year now, although I think most assumed they were more likely on the bubble for 2016, not 2015. However, $4.5 million is still significant money for a Center who has missed 13 games in two seasons and isn’t getting any younger, considering what the team needs to do elsewhere. Trading Unger is a huge gamble with this particular offensive line, but by the same token expecting Unger to start all 16 games in 2015 carries equal risk.
Still Julius Thomas would have been better because you still have the 1st rd pick. Yes, you don’t get the Saints 4th rd pick, but I would rather have kept our #31 pick instead.
The issue is that you’re not keeping the 31st pick. In all likelihood John trades down, like he always does, to get value. Especially since he’s admitted he only sees 15 or so 1st round worthy players. So if you ask yourself, “Is Jimmy graham worth the 45th pick?” (where we made out first selection last year) I think the answer is a resounding “yes!” As much as I like P-Rich, you can’t say Graham won’t have an immediate impact that is orders of magnitude greater.
Just to ask, why?
Not you Brian. I’m curious as to why Donald would of rather had JT and the 31st pick.
Not to mention that you would have to pay Thomas or Cameron, the 31st pick (for this discussion not traded) and Unger. Where is all this cap room coming from?
We also get a 3rd next year because the trade.
In my opinion,Graham is considerably better as a player and as a fit for what the Hawks want, than Julius Thomas was. And they wound up getting him at a bargain. As long as his health checks out, I see nothing but a huge win here.
Probably even more important to consider how many games Graham has played in vs Thomas in the last four years. Graham is essentially 3x times the value when you consider how much time Thomas has missed.
Perhaps fanciful thinking on my part, but the last day or two I can’t quite shake the thought that maybe Seattle’s supposed ‘late push’ to sign Julius was a ploy to keep Jax pursuing the prize and allocating their money. Not that most teams wouldn’t like a graham, but Jax was clearly identified as the team with both the money (cap space), need and desire for a big move TE to help Bortles. Could be we didn’t want Jax talking to N.O.?
Factor in that we were likely moving out of the first anyway, wanted to save the 1st rnd cap hit, and wanted to preserve the Maxwell comp….and maybe it was Graham we wanted all along.
“maybe it was Graham we wanted all along.”
It was.
http://www.iheart.com/show/139-The-Furness-Show/?episode_id=27180906
@ 5:25 mark
Question: Did talk with saints heat up after Thomas signed with Jags or did they have this trade in mind before he went elsewhere
John Schneider: “I would say we had him in mind before that. We really look at this as a cap and cap saving and we wouldn’t have to get into other contract issues signing a FA” (Paraphrasing)
John has also said before they started discussions with the Saints on the first day of the 3-day negotiations period which was a couple days before Thomas had chosen the Jags. Graham was always the #1 target.
I’m not sure we can say Graham was always the #1 target. After all, they knew Thomas would be hitting free agency weeks ago. They only really knew Graham was even available when the Saints called and were offering various players. Schneider asks if anyone is “off limits” and gets the answer he wants. They make the move for Graham and the rest is history. I’m sure if they knew Graham would be available he would’ve been #1. But I suspect they were planning to go after Thomas as the #1 priority with Cameron as a backup, while seeing what the market provided. And it just so happened to deliver Jimmy Graham.
That a good point. You’re probably right, but it does go against somewhat the report that they made “a late push” to sign Thomas.
Yeah the Peter King article said Schneider hadn’t even known Graham was available until that weekend or decided he was willing to part with his first round pick until Monday, maybe as a result of losing out on the Thomas sweepstakes which multiple reports mentioned the Seahawks have having made a late push. It makes sense for them to be pursuing both angles in case one fell through, so I don’t consider it contradictory.
I think the late push was more of a ‘one last push’ to try and make it happen, rather than mere late interest. Seattle was being linked with Thomas for some time before the legal tampering period began.
What I think this shows is that Schneider is thinking of several avenues at once. The late push for Thomas, Maxwell, etc. He has contingencies stacked upon contingencies built into what he is doing. So, he is trying to improve the team in more than one way. If one way doesn’t work out, he already has done the leg work for another way.
To me the “push” also sounds like they were already trying to get value, i.e. convince Thomas to take less to join the ‘Hawks. They were essentially in phase 2 from the start as this is also what they attempted to accomplish with Maxwell.
I think you’re right.
I don’t doubt at all that we were initially going after JT, but when we discovered Graham could be had I think maybe he jumped to the top. The Graham talks were happening before anything was resolved with JT and the “late-push” report surfaced. Just wondering if that was intentional posturing on our part to keep Jax out of the mix
Doubtful.
JS said NO shopped other players first. He also said he inquired about anyone being off limits, and when told no, he asked about Graham. If he hadn’t asked, Graham’s name never would’ve come up.
Under those circumstances, it doesn’t sound like NO was looking to trade Graham, so there really wasn’t any mix for JAX to be in on.
You think JS is the only GM to have conversations with other GMs?
You think Mickey Loomis conversed with other GMs besides JS about Graham? I’ve seen no reports of that anywhere.
I agree that we probably favored Graham over JT but would it not be better to have our 1st round pick and JT and Unger than a fourth round pick and third and Graham? If they were about the same cost then if we traded the first for a second and a fourth then that would be even better. So I think that getting Thomas would have been better for us this year If they were about the same cost.
Would Seattle still receive a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2016 if we sign a veteran OL like Wisniewski? I’m not 100% on how compensatory picks work.
Yes, providing he doesn’t get a comparable salary to Byron Maxwell.
Its all about the APY…mawell is at $10 million, Wiz at max would be $7
Would we still get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2016 if we acquire a free agent OL like Wisniewski? I’m not 100% sure how compensatory picks work. Getting a 3rd round pick next year definitely makes this deal much more appealing.
I’m disappointed to see Unger go but it makes sense if Schneider thought he may have to cut him within a year. Might as well maximize value and return on investment.
Yes, providing he doesn’t get a comparable salary to Byron Maxwell.
This made me laugh
Having two rookies on the OL is no good. Wisniewski would be a great addition and that would make throwing a rookie guard in there OK. You just wonder about money, it seems like the more they add the more Russels extension will be pushed to next year. Which isn’t the end of the world.
“Having two rookies on the OL is no good”
I guess it depends on the rookies. Even if there are a few growing pains, assuming they show progression — it could actually set up the heart of your O-line for the next four years at a bargain-bin cost. And this is a good draft for O-linemen in the middle rounds.
If its a team thats rebuilding I would agree with that but were trying to go to three straight super bowls. We need every win to try and secure home field, if those growing pains cost you early you could be looking at the 2 or 3, even the 5 seed. Just 2 different ways of looking at it. Im not sure what theory is better but I’m sure the FO does.
I would agree with you that I would hate to see two rookie lineman starting on the line next season while the team was making a serious run at another championship. It would be highly counterproductive. But Bailey and Lewis should make it so that’s not a likelihood. That lets them take their time to develop the guys they draft rather than throw them straight into the fire. Lewis is probably not ideal, but he’s at least got some playing experience this past season. I’d prefer Winiewski but I don’t give the chances of him signing here to be especially high or he would have probably signed already.
Just once, just one time before he’s gone, I’d like to see Lynch run behind a killer line. What a beautiful sight that would be….
A great team that intends to maintain competitiveness will be “rebuilding” every year–just not wholesale. The 49ers are going through an implosion which will likely lead to a full team rebuild. The ‘Hawks rebuilt RT and receiver last year (interrupted by the unfortunate injury to PRich), and they may start a few rookies but we’ve seen with Carroll/Schneider that they go with that (rookie) option when they are ready, they will try to align other options to give them more time if they are not.
Exactly right. Seattle won’t fall into the trap of perpetually making one last grasp by filling in with veterans. That’s the irony of the present cap discussion. If the Seahawks viewed this as a window, they could defer discussions with B-Wagz and Russell and add at least $10 million APY in free agent contracts still. But doing so would delay by a year the needed replenishment, potentially cost one or two higher compensatory picks, and give us less cap breathing room.
One discussion point: are there any players other than Wilson, Wagner and Sweezy who will need new deals in the next couple of years? Willson is the player I can think of who even plays a role.
Irvin
I expect 1 rookie OL to start out of the gate at G or C, but not both. Then as the season progresses, mix them into the mix. If they are superior, I have no problem letting a rookie start. If they are the best, via competition, you got to roll with em.
Who’s to say that C Patrick Lewis wouldn’t be the starter?
I get the concern over having 2 rookies possibly starting, but in a ZBS scheme it’s not that bad because they function as whole or unit instead of one on one blocking all the time, They just have to identify guys that move well, are nasty run blockers with size, and swivel their hips effectively.
As Rob said, the O-line is incredibly deep this year. Might be THE deepest position.
All good theory’s, good discussion.
The ZBS is kind of notorious for having a pretty steep learning curve. It’s been alluded to a couple times, where Seattle likes to get players into the system and learn it on the sideline so that they can be fully functional in year two.
Seattle is light on the OL. But as is the norm, we don’t know where the tail end of the OL roster is in terms of their development. Presumably, they should be ready to go this year.
Britt struggled in his first year, and much of that was clearly missed assignments. Things that point to the learning curve needed to excel in the system. I do agree, having 2 rookies start day one would be inviting trouble. Although I don’t think it’s out of the realm of expectation that at some point in the season, we may well have 2 rookie starters. Injuries happen and OL injuries seem to happen more than most.
Seattle may well be in a position where they need to get a day one starter off the bat. With a second prospect who isn’t merely a day three redshirt kind of prospect. Someone maybe in the 4th.
Well, if they want guys on the sideline learning it then OG Nate Isles and OL Keavon Milton may be in a competition for the starting LG spot along with ‘Pig’ Bailey.
It is hard to learn, but taking guys from a ZBS lessens the load or pressure.
And as ZBS guru Alex Gibbs always said, ‘give me a garbage man off the street and I can turn him into gold at the OG position.’ Not sure how well that holds up in today’s NFL, but it is something that’s always in the back of my mind when Tom Cable gives his input or makes his selections.
As a former TE, Keavon Martin is a lot like Garry Gilliam. I see him having quick feet. It remains to be seen how strong he is as a run blocker. So far, he does not seem to have been identified with a position (OG or OT). The TE background makes him the perfect Tom Cable prodigy.
Nate Isles, is not going to win any foot races. His 40 yard dash was a rather embarrassing 6.0 seconds. What he does do well is move well within a phone booth which is really all you need at LG. He isn’t going to be asked to pull or trap, just move the man in front of him out of the way. That he can do. He also has an incredible 104″ wingspan. This will keep the DL off his chest plate when pass blocking. At 350 he can anchor against the best NT’s which might be just enough to win the LG job since the rest of our OL’s are finesse blockers by comparison. What I find interesting about Isles is that since coming out of college last year he has put on 25 lbs of what I assume is ‘good weight’. I am anxious to see what he can do in training camp.
Bailey is pretty mobile even with a little extra weight. Like Carp last year he should be on a diet and preparing to come into camp in the best shape of his life.
Actually, a good ZBS guard needs to be able to get to the second level and hammer linebackers. When you listen to the praise Carroll and Cable heap on Sweezy, his ability to do that is always up front…
Hammering the guy in front of you is a power running scheme. We do that, but we do more ZBS…
It seems like they like to have both. Sweezy is real athletic and great at pulling and getting to the second level. Carp seemed like a less nimble road grader type.
“pig” bailey? Shame on you.
Shame on you.
In a perfect world every team would probably love for a ‘one year learning from the sideline’ scenario, but I would have to think if it was a major concern for us, we would not have seen Sweezy and Britt starting out of the gate in a SB window
Many teams have had no problems with rookie starters. And we should wonder if Wiesniewski is merely okay. Oakland did not make much an effort to keep him.
Oakland wanted to keep him enough to offer him 5 mil according to various reports. He just wasn’t as interested in staying for that much. He’s a decent run blocker and only struggled on passing plays against elite nose tackles last season. He’d also be better than anyone else that could start at center for us by a large margin. I just don’t think we’ve got enough in the wallet to get him signed.
I don’t think that is it, at least not yet. I think instead we are “recruiting” him, as Carroll said, and hoping that the best offer he gets out there from another team is within our budget for him.
No way does he visit without getting an offer. It’d be a waste of his time.
Good point.
Sweezy was platooned with Moffitt who had been here a year already. So he didn’t shoulder the load exclusively.
Britt was kind of a ‘last man standing’ kind of deal. Remember, we did pick up Winston to compete and possibly take the RT position this year. Whether it was Britt doing well (kind of doubt), or Winston just not having it anymore (more likely) — we certainly didn’t go into the season hoping they’d be starting.
That said, it can be done. But Sweezy and Britt had significant growing pains. Not insurmountable. But you are putting the franchise at risk in doing so.
Ultimately, I think bringing in a vet to play a season while they learn is worth the reduced risk of incurring injury. Wilson’s effectiveness is indelibly tied to his mobility. If he should suffer injury to sacrifice that mobility he is not nearly the QB he is today.
Yeah I think before training camp they were really expecting Bowie to play that spot but we all saw what happened when he loafed into camp massively overweight and injured himself on the first play.
And FWIW, Winston was picked up late in the season by Cincy after Andre Smith went on IR and played some decent games for them so maybe Cable was too quick to cut the the guy. Although he did have about the worst game possible for a tackle in their Wild Card loss to Indy so maybe not.
I hope they learned from last season to make the competition among the offensive line a lot more competitive to avoid having to depend on one guy when he had as many problems as Britt did in pass pro. Winston was sort of a last second add off the scrap heap because they were truly desperate after Bowie got injured. Who knows, with Bailey’s weight issues he does pose a similar risk in some respects to Bowie. I hope they’ve got some contingency planning in the works this year in case he doesn’t show up to camp fit to work.
1) Nice write up, keep up the good work.
2) FA needs… pick up a cheap DL from somewhere, have Mebane take a “haircut” on his contract…
The only DL that I would seriously consider bringing in for more than 4 million a year would be “The Kraken”. This would be doable, only if the organization thinks he has got his life together off the field. I’m against adding a veteran OL, unless it is close to a veteran minimum deal. With a rich OL draft, I’m all for building up a youthful OL that can grow together over the next few years. Need to identify a LT, LG and C for the future.
Who is the Kraken?
Greg Hardy.
Greg haugsven…I might drink the kraken…lol
With the new approach to not tolerating misbehavior, it would be beneficial for the Seahawks to come up with a “rehabilitation” program that they could try to bring in talented football players who need to clean up their lives and get a fresh start with a prove it contract. I could see Pete being very successful with this but not sure the PC crowd out of Seattle (including a lot of non-football fans) would let them do it. They definitely don’t want people demonstrating against them for bringing guys like this in.
Everyone loves a redemption story. This fits the bill perfectly. There is very little chance he would get what he is worth, but if you can get him in here for a modest “prove it” deal, to rehab his image and career in the NFL…. he should sign up right away. People in the region might have a negative attitude to the deal initially, but they also trust PC/JS with moves….. and they keep everything airtight in the building, perfect example Harvin before the trade to the Jets. Literally, only a few people outside of the organization had any clue what was going on…. this is what the Kraken needs. Heck, we could use a Clash of the Titans character on our side anyhow… lol
Teams probably want to know how many games he may miss in 2015 before committing a large sum of money. He’s a really talented player, but how much of him will you see? Also, he’s a pretty serious douche bag. How would the guys in the locker room receive him?
Keep up the great work Rob
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Seahawks cease their spending altogether. They made their big splash so they very well could continue to save some money for the existing Hawks that need to be paid. However, signing Wisniewskizxqoizlkjsa sounds like a great way to change priority in this draft particularly early on. By signing him, they could focus on DBs or WRs a little more intently with their first 2 or 3 picks this year. I think they use one or 2 of their 4th rounders the OL if they go skill position in 2 or 3. Ideally I’d like to see the 2nd and 3rd rounder go to DT and WR, then find some OL in round 4, but in PC & JS we trust.
If they bring him in and with his flexibility to play G and C, it could change their early thinking. There’s a lot of good depth on the OL this year. I still think Sambrailo is a Seahawk in the making though, it’s just whether they feel obliged to take him in R2.
Good sense of humor CA…its hard to recognize sometimes when were just reading…
I’m wary of tabbing Sambrailo as a seahawk quite yet. One thing we’ve come to know, is Seattle seems to take the Senior Bowl experience very seriously. And Sambrailo really did struggle there physically. It was a concern heading in and it was pretty openly exposed. Sambrailo looked out of his league.
I’m just wondering if we’re not giving him the Khaseem Greene/Courtney Upshaw treatment here.
From a measurables standpoint, Sambrailo is good. But certainly not great. There are OL talents in this class in that range that are better. Significantly so. Sambrailo is generally criticized for a lack of strength and struggling with the power rush. That was a consistent theme in Mobile as well.
I would expect that Sambrailo would be on our list of guys. But I don’t expect he’s at the top of that list. And I don’t expect he’s a player we’re going to reach on. Last year, we did reach on Britt, but that was due to the drop off in talent after a solid run at OL. This year, we don’t see that huge drop off. To take Ty that early — it would indicate to me that we see him as a truly special talent. I don’t think anything sees that in him.
His agility numbers were high. But pale to Marpet or Morse — two prospects right in his end of 2nd/middle 3rd round range. His explosion numbers are in the bottom third of the class. His footspeed was below average for the class.
If metrics mean anything to Seattle, then it makes it hard for me to think that Seattle has him as high on their board as some of the other OL prospects graded in his vicinity.
To me, he seems like a classic red herring prospect for Seattle. It doesn’t follow that Seattle would make such a magoo physical specimen their first pick in the draft. We didn’t settle on that with Richardson or Michael or Wagner or Tate. They were all extremely gifted physically. Britt seems the outlier out of admitted desperation.
Sambrailo had 23 reps on the bench, same as Britt. It’s not a sure fire way of proving strength but it’s out there.
I don’t see the Greene/Upshaw suggestion. I thought Seattle would really like Upshaw but we didn’t know enough about the PCJS approach in 2012. He was a tenacious, physical pass rusher. Not a speed guy. Not a LEO. Not the type who could do the role Irvin is doing now. At the time I thought he would be. We’d had two drafts to learn from so we were still being educated at that point. In 2013 we were still learning too. Greene was blatantly not fast enough to play linebacker for this team. At the time we (or at least I) thought his character, playmaking (turnover machine) and relentlessness would appeal. But he was too slow. Now we have a better idea what to look for as many different positions.
On tape Sambrailo has fantastic footwork and agility but combines it with the size Seattle likes. They run the ZBS but with size for the power run game. Sambrailo fits the bill to a tee in that regard.
The best way to understand strength of lineman is squats…which is something they don’t do at the combine…lineman use there legs more for power and there arms/hands to fight.
“I don’t see the Greene/Upshaw suggestion. I thought Seattle would really like Upshaw but we didn’t know enough about the PCJS approach in 2012. He was a tenacious, physical pass rusher. Not a speed guy. Not a LEO. Not the type who could do the role Irvin is doing now. At the time I thought he would be. We’d had two drafts to learn from so we were still being educated at that point. In 2013 we were still learning too. Greene was blatantly not fast enough to play linebacker for this team. At the time we (or at least I) thought his character, playmaking (turnover machine) and relentlessness would appeal. But he was too slow. Now we have a better idea what to look for as many different positions.”
This wasn’t meant as an indictment. Although rereading my post, I can see how that can be read.
I agree, those were educated guesses. I shared them. I was trying to point out, that it’s in our nature to find guys we like, and then kind of perseverate on guys we like early. Often times missing other options or even ignoring issues that might be only obvious in hindsight.
Sambrailo has good movement skills. He’s not alone in that ability in this class or in his range even. Do I think Seattle has interest in him? Sure. But I do see issues with taking him that highly. Specifically as it’s pertained to how we’ve drafted at the position and who were guys we considered at that position.
Issues that I think we might have with him:
1. Weak lower body. In both pass pro, and in run blocking, he doesn’t hold up well strength wise. He gets ridden backwards in pass pro pretty easily by players much smaller than him. On run plays, he doesn’t get much push along the front at all.
2. Good agility, but doesn’t lock onto guys. He is quick off the line to get to the next level. But I see him having severe difficulty getting to and laying solid blocks on the move. He seems to frequently outright whiff on a block in space, or loses his man almost immediately. I’m guessing he is off balance and reaching more than he should. That could be corrected. But he doesn’t look comfortable blocking on the move. Which belies his good footwork With his agility, you’d think he’s a good move blocker. But he actually looks awkward at it.
I’m not sure these kinds of issues would merit taking him in the second round. Seattle’s standard for what they desire of their second round guys seems to be higher from a physical ability standpoint. Not that they couldn’t pull the trigger. But in that respect, it would be a departure from what we’ve gone after before.
Color me unimpressed with Sambrailo as well. Glad I’m not alone here. He certainly does not fit the road grader model that we’ve settled on with Carp at LG the past couple seasons. Watching his tape he seems like a high effort player but never really explodes or dominates or jumps off the screen. Dare I say, he even looks a little…soft. If I putting together a draft board, a player like Poole would be graded higher than Sambrailo.
Assuming Carp is the type of player we want at LG, I still say Nate Isles should be given a long look in training camp if he shows up with any semblance of fitness and motivation. Also consider that if we do sign a veteran center such as Wizznewski we will have Bailey, Lewis, Lem, and possibly Isles all competing for the LG spot, not counting any draft picks. That’s a lot of competition already, so drafting another LG competitor early may not be as high a priority as we currently imagine.
I am currently beginning a fun little exercise of watching video of all the RBs on draftbreakdown, but instead of watching the RBs I’m watching the OLs that run-block for them. I have a long way to go, but right off the bat one player I’ve watched all season has caught my eye again – Tyrus Thompson, Oklahoma LT. Granted his attitude issues are on record, but man, when he feels like it, he can be really, really nasty. His problem of course, is he often doesn’t feel like it. He is a legit college LT and if we could get his head screwed on straight with a season or two at LG we could potentially have a vicious run-blocking LT if Okung departs. I’m kind of keen on the notion of drafting a LT to start off at LG, or at least compete for the spot, and I’ll likely offer more suggestions as my film study warrants.
Here’s the thing my man. Ty Sambrailo was a LT for Colorado St, and if he’s not the road grader type at LG, then why would LJP or Lewis be considered there? They’ll choose one of those 2 not both. Especially if the sign Wis. And neither one is a LG anyways.
Rob, it looks like there’s only a select few of us that are on board the ‘Sambo train.’
Perhaps I should clarify, man. I’m not impressed with Sambrailo at 63 if he is to be the same type of player Carp was at LG. Much later in the draft, sure. Why not. But he does not look like a second round pick to me, especially given the depth of this draft at OL. Go watch SR Nebraska LG Jake Cotton run-block for Abdullah, for example. Watch his anchor and constant explosion into the second level. He will probably be a UDFA or late rounder at best. Is ‘Sambo’ six rounds better than the likes of him? I don’t think so.
Lem and Lewis will be considered there because they have guard experience and are currently on our roster. That’s rather obvious and shouldn’t need clarification.
Easy now.
I’m not sold on the idea that LJP or Lewis will ever play LG. They don’t have the size. Last year and this year when Carp went down they could have slid LJP into the LG spot and didn’t.
No one ever said that Sambrailo was going to be the same type of player Carp is. He has Carpenter esque size.
I’ve seen nothing from Schneider over the last week to suggest that LJP is even in the team’s plans moving forward. He was left off the playoff roster in favor of Lewis and is not on the team. When prompted by the press what they plan on doing at Center John would bring up Lewis’s name but never once did he mentioned LJP. They might bring him into camp to compete but I’m not sure that he even factors into their thinking right now.
I stand corrected on Lem. He became a UFA this offseason and is indeed technically no longer on the team. However he was retained as long as he was because of his C/G versatility and would have been a possibility to fill in at either guard spot if needed.
I don’t expect LJP to make the roster this year. The draft choice at center will beat him out. Lewis already did.
There is also the possibility that our experimentation with a huge road grader-type with iffy feet at LG might lead us to shift the model a bit…
Patrick Lewis is 6’0″ and 311 lbs, and hes not big enough?
For your info, Marshawn aberaged 7.2 Ypc when Lewis was the starter..
Not big enough… Mebane’s ass.
Not big enough to play LG. Never said he was a bad player. He’s fine at C, and IMO will be the starter heading into training camp. A little short actually, but that probably helps RW’s vision from the pocket.
I’m all in on Ali Marpet. Impressive in senior bowl drills, athletic and powerful. I’ve watched several interviews and he oozes confidence and a certain edge o him. He’s determined to learn center and beloved that he could play right tackle in the NFL. I want this player to be a SEAHAWK. Would be have to draft him in round two? I think he has the upside to be a really good player at guard, for sure.
Great piece Rob. Anybody that’s doubting or not liking this move has to read this. You make so many good points that are essentially un-debatable.
Rob if we go OL and WR with the first two picks. Who do you think are out best options at DT from rounds 4 on in this draft?
I think DT is a big area of need particularly after this year when Mebane and McDaniel are up. The only real young talent we have at DT is Hill and he is an injury waiting to happen.
I think Andersen out of Stanford would be ideal for our system but I think he will be long gone. I think Christian Covington might be a good fit. He is an Canadian kid out of Rice who was injured most of his draft year. Exactly like Luke Willson. Both have tremendous physical ability but are raw with some injury concerns coming out of Rice. Have you looked at him?
I have looked at Covington and thought he was really hit and miss. Some tape where you barely notice him, but he has flashed too. I too expect Henry Anderson to be long gone. For me the best day three options might be Rakeem Nunez-Roches and Derrick Lott.
Rob, have you looked at tape of Austin Hill? WR from Arizona. He was an absolute monster as a sophmore in 2012. Then blew his knee out in 2013 and didn’t really gain form last year. He has good height.
Yep watched a ton of Hill. Thought after 2012 he was a future first rounder. Then he had the injury and looked like a totally different player in 2014. I’m not sure he’ll ever get back to the 2012 version. I’d bring him to a camp as an UDFA for sure.
Thanks Rob. Love the blog. I like those 2 guys as well but definitely projects.
That seems to be an area of weakness or at least depth in this draft like TE and Corner.
Have you heard anything on Jimmy Staten and if he might have a chance on cracking the roster this year? I thought it was a bad sign with all the injuries last year that he did not get any playing time. I thought they over drafted him in the 5th round last year.
I think Staten is facing an uphill struggle. He got banged up and never really back into contention, even with the constant injury issues up front.
Only time will tell if the Graham deal was a good one, but it certainly does seem like a bargain at this point. A draft pick that you aren’t enamored with, or a proven game changer in his prime on a decent contract? Sounds like a good deal to me.
FWIW Davis Hsu tweeted he thought there’s a decent chance we have a handshake deal with Wis pending Unger passing his physical.
“FWIW Davis Hsu tweeted he thought there’s a decent chance we have a handshake deal with Wis pending Unger passing his physical.”
Decent shout. I think it’s more likely he’s just trying to work out his value and decide what is the best move. But I can see the thinking on that. And we’ve not heard anything about other visits yet, which lends weight to the idea there’s a handshake.
I don’t understand how people under value a low 1st rd or high 2nd rd pick. It is as if getting a 4th rd pick is better and preferred.
I don’t know, call me crazy, but I rather have a higher pick than a lower pick.
Just because a guy is labeled or picked at then end of round 1/early 2nd doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to be better than a guy in the 4th. It’s all about scheme fit, does the coaching staff utilize a player’s strengths, will he mesh with the current roster, etc. It’s really just perceived value. And the real talent in this year’s draft outside of the top 15 is through the 2nd and 5th rounds.
Wouldn’t you rather have Jimmy Graham?
All things being equal, yes a low 1st or high second is much better than a 4th. But, all things are not equal. There is a salary cap to stay under. There is value of the players at pick 31. A player may be chosen at 31, but that does not mean his value is worth a first round pick or what you are going to pay for a first round pick.
And of course there’s the relative value/replaceability of Graham and Unger. If you were offered a 1st straight up for a 4th, I can’t imagine any team actually making that trade. But in this draft at least (and I’d say, probably a lot of drafts) the drop-off between the late 1st and mid-4th is not as huge as you might imagine; and the difference between Graham and Unger has the potential to be a lot more.
Good article Rob.
I still am having a hard time drinking the Kool-Aid. You make some good points but I still think the Hawks gave up too much.
I can accept giving up a 1st for Graham, because like Harvin he has a reputation that the defense will have to be aware of. He can produce a mis-match against most defenses, though not against good defenses that you see in the playoffs. If nothing else Graham will provide a distraction for Lynch and other WR to get open.
“It’s not even worth considering the loss of Max Unger as part of this deal. The Saints gave the Seahawks a fourth rounder — this is essentially Unger for a fourth”
I consider losing a two time pro bowl center, who was the leader on the OL calling assignments, and improved the OL performance when he was available, more important than a 4th rd pick. If Graham is worth a 1st rd, than Unger should have been a 2nd rd pick and not a 4th. Now the Hawks are desparately looking to fill two starters.
“If this trade flops like the Percy Harvin deal, what has it cost you? A late first rounder — essentially a second round prospect in this class” It also cost us Unger.
If it were only a 1st rd pick for graham, I would be okay with it.
If the Hawks got a 2nd rd pick for Unger, I would be okay with it.
Anyway, the Hawks continue the the trend of willingly overpaying to get someone they think will take them over the top. Generally, I am okay with that to a point, but only if they have the depth already on the roster to compensate for it. The OL needed some help before the trade, and now it needs more help. The Hawks due to injuries and free agency have some needs that a higher pick than a 4th rd would have helped solve. This time, I fear they got so fixated on the TE that they left other positions weaker. We will see.
Unger was injury plagued and likely a salary cap casualty. I really liked him when he was on the field but I am gad we at least got a 4th for him. Worst case is we an use the 4th to get one of the top centers in this years draft class.
They were already not going to re-sign OG James Carpenter, so actually they’re only down 1 starter on the O-line. They knew that Carp wasn’t coming back. I’m assuming that why there was reported interest in Ty Sambrailo and Terry Poole something that Tony Pauline says he knew back in October, which leads me to believe Seattle has been heavily scouting the LG spot.
Unger may have been worth a 2nd rounder 3 years ago, but not anymore. This league is notorious for ‘not what have you done, but what can you still do.’
Quite a few people, and I’m not saying your one of them, thought/think Seattle’s O-line was so bad, well now they have the chance to upgrade it and people are complaining about that. I don’t get it.
Thanks V12,
I believe the OL was middle of the pack, and I would like to do everything we can to upgrade it. It would be easier to upgrade the OL if Unger were here (even for a half a season with a good backup), or received a higher round pick for compensation.
In a league where Brandon Marshall gets traded for a 5th round pick, I think the Seahawks did very well to get a 4th rounder.
Just an outsider observation but we don’t know the exact draft value Unger (or Graham) commanded in the trade. It makes sense to say he got a fourth and it helps us make sense of it but that doesn’t mean the f.o. ‘s saw it that way.
I’d say we got great value for Unger too, but for all we know he was the cherry on top off an already done deal, like a late rounder you throw in at the end.
Whatever though, we just landed Jimmy f ing Graham. Pete you genius.
“but for all we know he was the cherry on top off an already done deal, like a late rounder you throw in at the end.”
Highly dubious seeing how John had mentioned the cap appeal of the trade swap from the start.
I believe we heard that NO originally offered two WR’s for Unger and JS turned it down. One of those WR’s was presumed to be Kenny Stills who was just traded to Miami for MLB Daniel Ellerbe and a 3rd. The other one may have been Brandon Cooks. So, it sounds as if Unger was valued pretty highly by NO.
“This league is notorious for ‘not what have you done, but what can you still do.'”
Not always the case. Witness Shaun Alexander’s last contract, for just one local example.
Well the start teams are anyways.
Bollie, I hope you are right, but I don’t share your optimism. All the known good centers will be gone by the 4th rd, and the players that end up good are usually a surprise, or they work hard to get better after they are drafted.
You may be right but Center is not a need for many teams and rarely drafted in the early rounds no matter how good they are. A lot of NFL centers are guard converts. All I know is Unger missed 13 games in the last 2 years and most guys don’t have less injuries as they get older. Like I say I was a fan but if we are going to move o now was as good a time as any.
Very well stated bollie. I am from Hawaii, my little sister attended the same high school (HPA) as Max Unger and graduated a year before he did (as did my father way back in the 50’s). To say he was my favorite Hawk would be an understatement. He was my favorite of all time (going back to 1977 when I first started watching football). I’m so sad he had to go, but the Hawks are a better team with Jimmy Graham and Patrick Lewis than they were with Max Unger and Luke Willson. In a position where you get constantly banged around, the injuries are not likely to decline unfortunately. I wish him the best and I’ll never forget all of the memories. Good luck Max – you’re still my favorite player, even if you’re wearing black and gold. Go Hawks & Go Max!
If all the good Centers will be gone by the 4th, and our FO agrees, who is to say we can’t draft one in the 3rd? In a deep WR draft, perhaps the 4th is where we utilize that extra pick to upgrade.
No they won’t. Cam Erving will go late 1st or early 2nd. Ali Marpet will go in the 2nd somewhere. Grasu probably goes in the 3rd same as BJ Finney.
That still leaves us with the option’s of Georgia Tech’s Shaq Mason, BC’s Andy Gallik, Auburn’s Reese Dismukes (who I’m not a huge fan of), and then there’s Miss St’s Dillon Day who is just flat-out nasty. He’s the O-line version of Cassius Marsh. He’s a bad ass dude.
Also there’s Iowa St’s Tom Farniok who is another bad ass that just oozes swag and confidence, Wisconsin’s Dallas Lewallen who has Max Unger like size. And that’s not even mentioning the small school guys.
Keep an eye on Temple’s Kyle Friend. He’s a freak.
I’d love to see DD in camp competing for a roster spot.
Don’t sleep on Greg Mancz. I’m just sayin’
Forgot about him, Thanks CHAWK
Really hard to find any film.
This is a “season in review” video for UT. Check out around the 4:00 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwfzejSyxQ
You get a greater net positive impact: Grahm + Person>Unger + Willson
What do you guys think about Greg Jennings on the cheap? I have mixed feelings as I prefer youth but he is a pro with great hands and IMO would be a huge upgrade over Kearse. But given the depth in the draft this year I think I prefer a combination of say Mcbride and Waller in the 3rd and one of the 4th round picks.
WR Corp of Matthews, Baldwin, Mcbride, Norwood, Waller and either Kearse, Lockette or the new guy out of the Arena league if we keep 6 with P Rich on PUP.
With Jennings it definitely has a good mix of youth and experience Baldwin, Matthews, Jennings, Norwood, Mcbride, Waller and P Rich (PUP)
If we won’t sign with Wisniewski then they should try to sign Jennings. At least try.
IMO I think they draft one WR only. Baldwin and Kearse are your starters, Matthews is your 3rd Lockette is your 4th based on his special teams contributions. Norwood is the 5th guy and and a draft pick 6th.
Even though I don’t think Kearse is worth his 2 mil salary not do I think he should be guaranteed a spot I think Carroll loves him and he does come up with big catches every now and then although it seems like he lets too many go through his fingertips.
I think they should go for at least two WRs, including in UDFA, and just have them compete like crazy in camp. Why should anyone think their job is safe? Maybe Baldwin can be supplanted. Kearse, definitely.
I think they’ll take one in the 3rd or 4th, if they’ve never taken a CB with less than 32′ inch arms, LEOS with less than 32′ inch arms, or DTs with less than 33′ inch arms, shouldn’t we expect a WR in the 4th? They’ve taken one every year under PC/JS.
And then I think they’ll take a George Farmer guy later in the draft. Same high Scholl as Robert Woods, Marquise Lee, and P-Rich, and if I remember right, PC recruited him back when Farmer was in HS. He’s also an L.A boy. Something they take every year.
I don’t think he’ll be that cheap and I don’t think he’s that good. What about Dwayne Bowe. That guy is coming off another alex Smith year and not long ago he was a touchdown machine, he was the real deal no questions asked and he still might be. I don’t think you can say that for Jennings, there was always some grey area there, was it more him or Aaron Rodgers. The grey area on bowe is what does he have left. 0 t.d.’s to any wr last year from Smith.
He was sort of a slacker though after he signed his big contract. If a vet is going to be signed, it should be one that’s highly motivated. Not someone just looking to sign with a team. His past run ins getting busted with weed are a red flag too seeing how he’ll be in Washington state.
That could be, he might not have the work ethic to stick on this team. I don’t think weed would affect us signing him though. I’m just curious, with all the names going around, why I haven’t heard his once. He’s coming off a down year and he could be a nice bargain. I think he’d be worth a look.
Teams probably wonder what he could possibly offer when Kansas City badly needed a wide receiver to step up for them last season he he couldn’t come close.
Just going to leave this here… Could mean nothing but then again, who knows?
We’re cable and wis on the Raiders at same time?
Were
Cable left after 2010 season, Wis drafted in 2011.
Rob, this is a very interesting take on the trade and I completely agree. It seems to me that other teams may be overvaluing 1st round picks, and PCJS are trying to take advantage of that. While the Harvin trade was obviously a flop, they were still able to acquire a player who at the time of the trade was one of the top playmakers in the league, and far superior to any player available in the late first. Ditto the Graham trade. They seem to have found a market inefficiency and I think they might continue taking advantage (either by trading back or by trading for impact players) until the rest of league catches on.
Always been a huge fan of your blog, keep up the great work!
“They seem to have found a market inefficiency”
Fantastic point. Teams hate to part with first rounders. Players win games, not picks. If you can get a top player for a pick — and thus remove some of the unknown — it makes sense to a point.
To add to your comment Dan, having a ‘near-complete’ roster puts us at an advantage as compared to most teams. Almost every team (even playoff contenders) have multiple holes to fill and having 2 first rounds picks is an enticing prospect – one that currently works in our favor.
Currently we’re able to either:
1) let the draft come to us and go best player available,
2) snag the insane talent that drops,
3) take a redshirt flyer on an injured player,
4) OR in this case (as with Harvin) use that late pick to land an established stud.
I think they’ll do all 4 coug. Nice job.
Good point coug. The extra first round pick would definitely seem more enticing to a team looking to fill more needs, as it should.
But I still think a trade like this should appeal to teams that may be further away from a finished product (I.e. Oakland). They could have given up their early second and a late pick to complete the trade, depending on how you value Unger/the 4th Rd pick. One of the main advantages draft picks have over proven players are those first four years of cheap player control. But this should matter less to a team with a bunch of cap space like Oakland. They would still control Graham for three more years, and he’s obviously vastly superior to the talent available at that point in the draft.
High draft picks are obviously valuable, but I think the Seahawks are very wise to be willing to trade them for proven, elite talent.
Not yet. Hope they get here. You can’t really say with the OL the way it is now that they can go BPA.
They sure as heck didn’t go BPA with Britt last year, either. And I think it showed. Good effort guy, big, decent run mauler, but not great feet and balance for a second round OT.
It’s funny how it didn’t work out for Allen or Melton yet worked out for Williams. Stefen Wisniewski choose wisely.
I really like Wisniewski because he’s started 61 games in the last 4 years. We know he’s durable and I think that’s the most important thing for us right now. Especially at a position like center.
Im all in on Ali Marpet. I think he’s similar to Unger when we drafted him out of college. Could play guard or center. Probably plays guard to start his career but ends up playing center long term. Im also ok with having him play guard. I don’t know why but I love the idea of Marpet-Sweezy at guard and then Britt at RT. Lot of mobility within our guards. I also wouldn’t mind having Bailey go play guard and have Marpet plays center.
I would also be ok with drafting Sambrailo and Marpet. Might as well. Got a great defense and have the big target.
Wis makes a good signing because he can play all 3 interior OL positions. But let’s be honest, he was a far better OG than he’s ever been a C.
I wonder if they sign him it isn’t to replace Carp. So much the better he can play C and back up Sweezy too.
Signing Wis can give us some insurance in case we dont extend Sweazy, and he walks in 2016
They’ve put so much into Sweezy, and he is pretty damn good, so I think they will keep him…
It seems likely JSPC will draft at least WR and add it to the existing corps (plus Matthews and O’Neil – who bring loads of potential). The OL and DL can be buttressed via free agency and draft. The CB room might see another addition thru draft. Most other groups are pretty much set.
However, the elephant in the room might be our mid- and long-term condition at safety – particularly strong safety. Kam is banged up from head to toe. He plays hard and that won’t change. I’d be surprised if he made it for ten games in 2015. Even then some of the quality of those games could be compromised.
There isn’t much of any depth in our squad to cover him. He’s one of those heart and soul guys that probably won’t be replaced at equivalent level. Much like Marshawn. Does everyone really think Kam will last out his contact – at least effectively?
It’s another consecutive weak draft for safety. Perhaps what JSPC could do is find a low round SPARQ candidate at different position (i.e. DE or LB) and take a season or two to coach him up to be more like the Kam-type SS.
We do have Pinkens in the fold. I’m not sold that he will be a solid starting corner. Perhaps they can shift focus with him.
Also ET plays a lot of downs and special teams. That’s a lot of wear and tear. I know we have the LOB tied down but if they run out of gas we’re in trouble.
Kurtis Drummond could be a later round depth option at Safety.
Yup as well as Penn St’s S Adrian Amos.
I think Damarious Randall could develop into a nice FS. He is a willing tackler. He would learn a lot from ET.
Nice find, Chit, he has good combine numbers as well.
I would throw Shaw into the mix as well.
Lippit as a convert who could also intrest the Hawks. Has been compared to Sherman.
Ekpr-Olomu
Ron Darby,whom I like a lot.
Damian Swan. Whom Rob likes.
Deshazor Everett.
Julian Wilson. Good length, speed.
Dorian Grant. Underrated.
Eric Rowe. Length. I like him.
Justin Cox.
Craig Mager, Another player I really like.
Nick Marshal. Who I think with proper coaching could turn out to be a good player.
There are plenty of options in the latter rounds that the Hawk’s staff can work with.
Nick Marshall is a guy to really watch. He is an outstanding athlete with very little experience playing CB. If you get him good coaching upfront, he could be a significant long term piece… and he can play QB as well, which shouldn’t be discounted.
Love Nick Marshall. He’s all business. Has an Earl Thomas like intensity. Plays and interviews pissed off.
He’s my choice and selection when I do my mock for Seattle’s yearly/developmental CB.
Texas A&M CB DeShazor Everett is another one. Great athlete, loves to hit, but just needs the right coaching to enhance his game.
A nickel/slot guy is Marshall CB Daryl ‘Swag’ Roberts. Love this kid too. Hits like Bam Bam, and gets his hands on everything. Has a Richard Sherman like knack for tipping passes.
Completely stepping out of FA is not a good idea now. I don’t like the idea of solving all the problems left in the draft, especially after the defeat in 2013.
The most urgent need except O-Line is D-Line. I hope we can cut McDaniel and find better men here.
I actually agree that DLine is a need, and in some ways which is sacrilege around these parts and probably to ROb’s chagrin the yearly debate on the state of the Oline union, I think the plug and play Dline method has been revealed to be broken as of the Super bowl.
I’ve got serious reservations about Mebane between talk of a pay cut, which he holds the leverage btw since the team has no real way to replace him due in part to Hill’s injuries and due in part to the lack of depth around the line.
As of now I have no real idea what is going to happen with Bane/Williams/Mcdaniels, but I think Seattle needs to consider drafting two players for the Dline.
Rob’s got me on board with Rakeem Nunez-roches and I’ve long been a believer in Grady Jarret.
I’m Justin now getting into Derrick Lott, but the first tape I saw I thought “welcome to the Seahawks.”
And I’m probably totally wrong in this assessment and he does play a little low in his stance which makes it hard for him to club/rip/or arm over a guard or center at times…is Chucky Hunter. he’s squatty and powerful and basically has a built up Mebane frame, now granted when Mebane is on he’s one of the most slept on Dline men in the game but I think Hunter will fall all the way to the 7th, and maybe for even into UDFA territory but if he got a little higher in his stance and could add a bit more hand fighting to his repertoire he’s a “to the whistle,” player he is surprisingly fast for his size, has some freaky almost DE moves for an interior linemen and on the two tapes I’ve seen he doesn’t get the explosion of Grady jarret (my favorite prospect that seattle might be able to draft for Dline) but as something I look at is how teams account for a player…CHucky Hunter is getting double teamed against to slow him down on a good proportion of his plays.
That’s not to say you wont watch tape of him and go “huh,” because as stated above he does get washed out because of technical problems more then you’d like to see. He’s just a guy I have my eye on.
No disrespect meant, but I got a chuckle out of this line, “…I think the plug and play Dline method has been revealed to be broken as of the Super bowl.” So, a team that has the best defense and made the Super Bowl two straight years has a broken method of dealing with the defensive line?
The method was not the problem. The injuries were the problem. Avril, Mebane, Marsh, Hill, Scruggs, etc. If this team were as healthy as the year before, Seattle would be hoisting the Lombardi trophy two years in a row.
Now, this team cannot stay static. They will make changes, just like they did with releasing Bryant and Clemons last season.
This to me is a bit catch 22. There were obviously tons of injuries. But I was getting at the part where the FO hasn’t really put a premium at developing the players so the best linemen so far are FA acquisitions and guys on prove it deals. For a team that can turn an oldish by nfl standards into beast at lb…irvin…can find kj “who,” Wright late they’ve struggled to develop players on the line.
So come the superbowl, which is no doubt amazing to win one and get to another I have to wonder where the in house practice squad guys are or the guys on the 53 who might not suit for games as opposed to the valet and his friend.
Plus for a team with such an amazing defense and it is I would personally like to see as much investment in the line from a draft stand point as the oline and the wr position. I may betray my ignorance but in all the drafts irvin,hill, marsh, and Scruggs I think are the only players drafted who have played and Irvin is now a boss olb so my math is 4 guys in all the drafts plus udfas?
This is why I want them tk take UCLA DE-LEO ‘Diggy’ Odighizuwa. I’ll be surprised if he’s off the board before the 55th pick or so. They got a real shot at this guy.
Agree, but I think he will be gone. But if he is with 10 picks of us, it would be tempting to trade up. Long arms, quick feet and strong.
I’d agree with this and I’m not a fan of trading up in the draft AT ALL, but I’d advocate a move up the board for this dude. He’s special IMO.
Great article, Rob. Does a great job crystallizing where things stand.
Sterling Moore is visiting with Tampa. It is really too bad the Hawks did not consider Moore. He flashed serious talent with NE, and played extremely well as a starter for Dallas in relief duty last season. Young, smart, on the rise, rarely out of position, consistent in a Maxwell-like way, he is the kind of corner who should be in the LOB. I would have preferred him to Cary Williams.
Darren Waller, WR, Georgia Tech (TE) Height: 6-6. Weight: 238. 40 Time: 4.46. Projected Round (2015): late 2- mid 4.
Grab this guy, insurance policy at “big” WR and “move” TE. I could see tremendous potential if he was paired up with Graham on 2 TE sets or in 4 WR sets, using the 2 TEs off the line in the slot. No defense could handle that kind of size and speed at the TE position.
The entire NFL has their eyes on him. It will come down to timing. Might have to take him earlier than we think, and that he frankly deserves.
And there has to be concerns about his drug suspension. I like the stats on the guy and that he didn’t have the dropsies, but if he has behavioral concerns, we don’t like our players suspended when we need them. If we can get him late, and he can answer the character concerns, then pull the trigger.
On the other hand, with Graham, Matthews, and Willson, we have a good array of tall capable receivers, so there is reason to not focus so much on finding another.
And a surprise WR all ready on the roster seems pretty good at catching TDs himself…
At 6-3, 200, 4.46…he might make the squad and create yet another problem for the defense…
His name is Douglas McNeil III
Or, unfortunately, he’s just another physical demon who probably won’t amount to much.
He’s got room to put on some good weight,really like his hands.
This was supposed to be posted above. Skipped down one post.
Rob makes great points about this trade and explains in a way that most would not even think about. Most, does not include the family here at SDB. There were so many great post today by everyone, thank you all!
Personally, I am just fine not having a 1st round draft pick. I mean it sucks for reading mock drafts since most of them are for just the 1st round…
The fact is that since 2010 on 1st round draft picks the Hawks have made were arguably 2 or 3 round talents and made me say “WTF?” Our 1st round pick this year is Jimmy Graham, AMEN brothers!
I would love to draft a WR that puts Kearse on the trade market. Sure I know all the good stuff he has done but the bad stuff is unforgivable. The 2 muffed balls against Green Bay in the NFC Championship game that led to 2 easy picks and-the final nail in his coffin was the drop in the Super Bowl that would have iced the game for us.
And I forget to mention his matador block on Brandon Browner on the last play of our game winning Super Bowl drive.
Do any of you remember Bobby Ayala from the Mariners?
Bobby Ayala? Now that is just cruel.
Rob or anyone for that matter is the current draft positioning a follows:
2nd, 3rd, 3 4th rounders, a fifth, two Sixes, and a 7th?
I’m just going back over this weekend players I have had my eye on reacquainting myself with tape of them and trying to bring new perspective about them or see if it has changed,
A couple quick thoughts.
One I like Dillon Day quite a bit and I think Cable will like him too but NFL.com cracked me up noting he compares favorably to our own Patrick Lewis go figure.
Volume 12 I thought you’d like this for my non homer homerism but I went back and watched tape of Austin Hill as that I think Seattle between draft and UDFAs will bring in three WR’s so I wanted to revisit his games. First game I pull up on the old lap top is Austin Hill vs. Utah because I always watch a players toughest competition if available first.
Two thoughts on him one he is an oddly willing and effective blocker, and two and why I find that odd is he at least in the tape I watched gave up readily on pass plays that didn’t involve him which made it easy for Utah to defend….but the part V12 you will like is on the first play of that cut-up who should appear is old Eric Rowe playing single high safety with an interception. Needless to say I’m not letting it go about him anytime soon. I still post free agency/ combine think the former safety turned corner would be a good CB but a devastating Nickel CB even employing a little of that Earl Thomas patented Karate chop combo tackle which I love.
I keep hearing 1 4th, 2 5th and 1 6th comp picks for Seattle this draft. I had originally thought it would be a 1 3rd, 1 5th 1 6th and 1 7th…. we will find out after the owners meetings *fingers crossed*
That’d still be a good haul for comp picks.
As for the fourth round then it would be : Our natural pick in the fourth, a comp pick for Tate, and the Saint’s fourth? if that’s so I think it could be a pretty sweet spot for the team.
It is a good haul. I can see Seattle trading a 2015 4th round pick for a future 3rd round pick in 2016.
This should set Seattle up to pick depth up at OL, DL and LB. Plenty of exciting players, that can solidify the team for the next 5 years.
1x Round 2
1x Round 3
3x Round 4
3x Round 5
2x Round 6
1x Round 7
Holy crap that looks awesome! Thanks Rob. As probably half of the SDB followers on here I make mostly mental mock drafts and there has been since before comp picks and the Graham trade about 4-6 players I just couldn’t seem to slot higher say in the third but think that they aren’t getting drafted in the 6th, and tada! The seahawks have a chance based on past draft patterns this time to really set themselves up against future contracts. And stay hopefully awesome for quite some time.
Ostensibly every team has that chance every drat but teams with one pick in all the rounds have a much harder time finding depth/hoping for a starter/ or casting about for an upside pick that may not tick every box..
LOL! You and Utah man. For a guy from Oregon and the PNW you sure do like them Utes, huh?
But all kidding aside, I do like CB Eric Rowe. Versatile, full of potential at the CB spot, and plays very ‘Seahawky.’ I hope when Utah’s pro day comes around we find out his arms are in fact 32′ inches, but even if they aren’t, I really do wonder if half an inch will matter to Seattle. Will be interesting to find out.
WR Austin Hill is a polarizing guy. Hit and miss. I keep bringing up what Rob said, but a couple years ago he looked like a guy that wouldn’t get out of the 2nd round worst case. And now, I see the potential and intrigue, but he doesn’t seem the same. He’d be worth a 6th-7th or in UDFA.
Oops! Forgot to say that I’m glad you got a chance to check out Dillon Day. He’s just an assho** out on the field isn’t he? I love the fact that this dude won’t back down or take sh*t from anyone. Also has the frame to add some ‘good’ weight, and is another guy that isn’t a finished product by any means.
Even better I’m from Seattle and now live two miles from autzen so who knows…where the urea thing comes from!
I thought I remembered you saying you were from Oregon. Could have been someone else. Sorry buddy,
No not from Oregon but live in Eugene now. Was a huskies fan as a kid but they’ve fallen so far off the cliff in 12 years its hard to follow. Literally. Here in Eugene unless the huskies are playing a pac 12 or similar level team and its that as hell they are not getting on tv here!
I’m actually worried that mariota is going to a NFC team that the fox affiliate here will bump hawks games for what ever team he goes to. I didn’t live here then bit Eugene is a fifty fifty niners/hawks town and I guess in 2002 there was quite the hoopla about showing Harrington games. Favorite son and all that. Dear Tennessee or the jets do me a solid and do the right thing your teams suck and you need a QB. Tampa do the right thing and draft Winston.
Ouch! I feel bad for you brother. I don’t know what I would do if I wasn’t able to watch my Hawks.
What team are you thinking? I mean you never know come draft day, but the only team I could see him going to is Washington, and I’m still not sure about that. I’d say the odds are over 90% he ends up in the AFC.
The Bucs are locked in on Winston as they should be. When this kid was asked to diagnose and put plays up on the board, and then improvise, he was flawless.
Was the Harvin trade worth it? Yes.
Why? Because we won the Super Bowl.
Was the Graham trade worth it? TBD.
It’s all in the results.
But you can also make the case that Harvin directly and indirectly created numerous problems that directly and indirectly contributed to the troubles of the regular season as well as the Super Bowl.
Harvin didn’t win the SB for us.
Harvin was a mistake but a mistake that I accept. Winning the Super Bowl validates every move made up to that point.
Good analysis but id add that Hawks also gave up some cap as a rookie would’ve been cheaper than Graham. So this means a cheaper free whet signing.
I still like the trade. Graham is a proven difference maker in the prime of his career. Not a rookie transitioning to the pros plus a cheaper short term free agent.
Per other points, we are not necessarily starting 2 rookies on OL. There wasn’t much of a drop off with bailey and Lewis last year. I think we are flat at worst this year and should consider it drafting future upgrades at OL for our franchise QB.
Keep think we missed a trick not signing pot roast to replace Mcdaniels and Williams.
A rookie would’ve been cheaper but would’ve also come with guarantees and signing bonuses Seattle don’t take on in the Graham deal. Schneider talked about the overall cap benefit he feels they gain from not spending a R1 pick.
Posted this in the wrong thread…
Interesting. Apparently CLE tried to trade Cameron to SEA for Harvin last season.
As reported by the Northeast Ohio Media Group (NEOMG):
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/03/how_jordan_cameron_signed_with.html
“…the Browns were not devastated by the departure. In fact, they had tried to trade Cameron to the Seattle Seahawks last season for Percy Harvin, who was ultimately dealt to the Jets, a source told NEOMG. Cameron was looking for long-term deal worth about $8 million a year before last season, and the Browns weren’t prepared to pay that much. Talks broke off and didn’t resume until the season was over.”
Must have been Cameron’s health that queered the deal, if there ever was one. If not, I guess he wasn’t a target for SEA this FA period.
That would have been kind of a cool trade to see if not for Jordan Cameron, but that Harvin would have to play for the Browns.
“To move from #9 to #4 last year, Buffalo gave up a future first and fourth rounder. That was just to move up five spots. Imagine the price tag to jump more than twenty places? Especially in a draft with 15-18 prospects with first round grades.”
Not all picks are weighted the same, esp. inside the top for the first round. 31 to 10 or 15 isn’t the same as 10 to 3. A Julio Jones deal is a bit of a stretch, but I get the idea. It would cost a ton to land one of the top three receivers in this draft according to the ‘consensus’ top three, but it’s also possible someone like DGB or Perriman are guys the team had as reasonable options in the bottom half 1st to top of the 2nd and would have filled a big receiver need that way and solved TE via trade or other means.
It is fun to think of just how awesome this Graham trade is on so many levels. The pressure of not only landing targeted player but also getting early contributions – or panning out at all – is no longer something we have to deal with with regards to pick 31 or big WR / TE. I absolutely love it.
Thanks for the talking point and keep up the great work at arguably my favorite source for Seahawks discussion, Rob.
Good point at the beginning. You can’t just look at X number of spots. Obviously, going from the 31st pick in the 7th round to the 10th pick in the 7th round is going to cost a lot less than going from the 31st overall to the 10th overall.
In the past few drafts teams have gone from #31 to #18 for a 3rd (#74) and from #27 to #20 for a 3rd (#91). Not exactly the same, but if we were going from #31 to #14, say, I’d bet we could have gotten there with something like our 2nd and a 5th. Especially since while a team might have only 18 players with a 1st-round grade, it’s not like you fall off a cliff going from 18 to 19. Lots of good non-WR players still on board at #31. Heck, look at NO at #13. They gave up Graham for #31 and Unger. Would they have given up #13 instead for #31 and Unger? Or 31, Unger and a 3rd or 4th?
As others have noted, we are also paying Graham full price. I don’t think big receiving targets are at such a premium that having one is worth more than market value because they just aren’t making any more of them. IOW, it makes sense to say, for example, that if you trade from Tom Brady and his $20million salary it’s still a good deal because there just aren’t enough good QBs for all 32 teams. Offering $40 million per year isn’t going to get the Texans an elite QB, because there simply aren’t any available.
So to me, if we are going to really re-think this, we should be asking if Graham at his cap space plus our 2nd-round pick is better than, say, Davante Parker on the cheap PLUS whatever other FA we could have got with the leftover cap space. (Assuming it’s #31, Unger and maybe a 3rd or 4th for #13).
Maybe that last part got a little wonky. Summary: Moving from #31 to the Saints’ pick at #13 probably not nearly as costly as the Julio Jones deal to #6. That probably gets us Davante Parker. If the Saints would do Graham and #107 for #31 and Unger, would they do #13 for #31, Unger and #127? If so, in theory we could use the cap space savings (Graham vs. Parker draft pick) to sign Wisniewski.
So, trade scenario, we have: Graham + #107 (Saints’ 4th) + #127 (our 4th)
No-Graham draft pick trade, we have: Parker + Wisniewski
I think we could have traded into the top 14 without giving up much more than we did, but I’m not sure option #2 is better. Proven ability of Graham vs. hope of young WR plus the value in keeping them for longer and lower cost if they pan out.
Disagree completely. Davante Parker would have some good plays, but Jimmy and Russell have all ready set up practices as vets…immediate results. This trade is ridiculous luck…amazing!
Hold up. Disagree? My conclusion was that option #2, having Davante Parker and Wisniewski, was probably not as good as having Graham and the Saints’ 4th. I’m just not ready to call it a slam dunk.
I mean, think about it this way: if Jimmy Graham was a FA, would you have thought it was a bargain that we could sign him for $9 million a year? Or would you have thought, “Yeah, that’s about right.”
Well, if $9 million is his fair market value, how is paying $9 million PLUS a 1st rounder AND Max Unger a slam dunk amazing bargain? I’m not saying I’m against it, but it really becomes a bargain only if he’s the best chance of providing what we needed (i.e., moving up in the draft to get Cooper or White was not feasible).
Great write up, all valid points. Love the Graham trade, it’s a low risk move when they can cut him anytime with no reputations. Also, Graham seems to be a team player at least based on his interviews.
Are you kidding me?
A reliable and prolific 6-7 target for this offense is priceless. It gives RW his red zone target, it opens up the box for Lynch, it enables us to create favorable secondary match ups like Matthews one on one with a short CB etc.
Those types of players are so rare that any discussion on “value” is really meaningless. If you can get one of those – You go and get him!!!
For years we have been looking for those instant physical mismatch players. None of the potential candidates came even close to Graham. A verified quality target at the top of his game is worth 3 potential rookies.
I can’t really understand any reaction other then OHH MY GOD…WE GOT GRAHAM.
I can promise you 31 coaches around the league reacted by – S**T, F**K, the Seahawks got Graham.
Are you really comparing a draft pick that would, at best, take 2 years to be half the game changer Graham is right now?
Other then taking away the 31st pick from our guessing games this is HUGE.
Enjoy.
Exactly my thoughts Eran. Graham is exactly what we needed. All these people crying about losing Unger, but two weeks ago were calling to draft his replacement and trade him? They got their wish and now are upset?
This allows us so many options in the draft. We can target a WR/KR/PR and not worry about size. We can draft a later round rookie with explosive traits that needs some time to grow, IE conley, waller type players. We have options on the line from our practice squad that JS has been glowing about. This draft is unusally deep at OL. Easy to grab some high upside interior line players. The only other thing we need to do is draft a DL, a late round CB prospect and then you are set. We need to rejoice at the awesomeness that is JS/PC team building and drafting. They are setting us up to win forever. We have a real shot to be the next great team for the decade.
Who is this responding to Eran?
Not sure how to answer that? Me, haha. Just an avid SDB follower who has been a life long Seahawks fan.
Rob,
Since the trade was published I have seen remarks questioning the whole idea (It’s Harvin all over again) or the value in it. You were not one of them.
The post above is justifying the value of the trade from an NFL economics point of view. My remark was aimed at the whole point of trying to calculate that.
There is no calculated value for players like Graham/Gronk/Megatron etc. Everybody wants one, very few get to have one. When an elite team gets a chance to add one to an already SB worthy roster it’s such a huge plus that such calculations do not do it Justice.
I know you love the move but some here have been less the ecstatic about it. I was responding to them in general…
Haha I read your comment wrong rob. Makes so much more sense now the Eran replied.
We are having a storm here in Eastern so I have had lots of time to do some Hawks draft research and go back over you blog posts over the last couple of months.
The one common theme since the SB and even before that was your stressing the need for a big Target in the passing game obviously JS felt the same way. Ever since I saw Wilson play with Jackson in the Pro Bowl I have thought the same thing. The focus was JT but if Healthy I think you will agree Graham is probably even better. Their red zone offense with Wilson, Lynch, Graham and Matthews should be near unstoppable and improve dramatically from its 20th ranking last year.
For the draft I find mocks and predicting who we will get is difficult because you never know where other teams rank players. One thing this front office has shown is they are willing to over draft to get the guy they want. So instead of trying to do a mock I thought I would just do something a little different and list the primary areas of need and then players who seem seahawky and might be able to make the squad or practice squad.
I have not included any of the 1st round / early 2nd round prospects who will be all be gone by the time the Seahawks pick at 63. Also left out RB, QB and TE
LEO / Edge- D Hunter, Hodges, L Trial, Golden, Orchard, D.Tull
DE- P Smith, H Andersen, Chickillo, FLowers, Tavarias Barnes
WR / KR – Agholor, Dorsett, Mcbride, Lockette, K Bell
WR Developmental- Waller, Smelter, D Lewis, C Connely
DT – G. Jarret, Hardison, Covington, Nunez-Roche, D. Lott, Xavier Williams
Guard / Center-Tomlinson, Marpet, Poole, Morse, Sambraillo, J Miller
OT – D. Williams, C Ogbuehi, D Smith, R Crisp, Gibson
Corner- B Jones, S Nelson (perfect slot corner for Hawks), Carter, Rowe
Convert CB – N Marshall, T Lippet
Safety- J. Tartt (great backup for Cam), Drummond, Shaw, Sample, Randall, Eskbridge, Aamos
LB – Anthony (My favourite player in the draft had to include even though GB will probably take him in the first) Kwon Alexander,
A note to Vol 12 🙂 This group includes mostly combine invites. As point out correctly the Hawks always have a few non invite surprises for us.
I am sure there are guys I am missing but I think any of these guys could compete for a Roster spot with good long term potential that is all you can really ask for from mid- late round picks
I like this list. I’d personally take off Orchard, Golden, Donovan Smith,and Anthony, and all the DTs except for Harrison and X. I’ll tell you why:
I’m having a hard time finding DTs in this draft that fit Seattle’s 33′ inch arm/wingspan cut-off. Doesn’t mean they will adhere to that, but it’s more than likely. I’m as big a fan of Grady Jarrett and RNR as the next guy is, but that arm length keeps popping up in my mind.
Orchard and Golden I don’t think have the 10 yard split numbers for the LEO spot. Nor does Trail, but he’s so intriguing and unique, he may be one of those guys where you draft him and then it takes a year or two to kind of figure out where to play him, Kind of like BJ Daniels.
Stephen Anthony is a flat-out stud, but your right, if GB doesn’t take him, then Philly will in the 2nd. Watch out for UCLA LB Eric Kendricks as our surprise pick this year. As Rob said, it could have just been Seattle doing scouting on him since SF will more than likely take him, and he’s a complete luxury pick, but man what a playmaker!
Donovan Smith I’ve heard has a terrible work ethic and lacks competitiveness.
LB Kwon Alexander is extremely interesting IMO. Nice eye.
I think scouting for Dlinemen may be trickier then CB spots. There are very few CBS that fit the mold but the imagination can make them fit as Seahawks.
For dlinemen I almost literally feel like I only like picks that dont match their variables and dislike almost all that have Seahawks approved measurable.
Yeah, scouting for D-lineman is difficult, your right. Especially this draft if, like you say, they stick to their measurable ‘cut-off.’ Same as CB in this particular draft too,
True but I can even see the logic late with carter or you and I are plugging for Marshall. Plus with Williams signing it obviously gives them more latitude. I’ve still got concerns about mebanes health so after that? Who fills his role? I mean at or near his level if Jordan hill ends up being some injury prone player? With either for a season…game on. With both out. Yikes.
Absolutely agree. I think there is corners and D-lineman in this draft that fit their ‘profile’ but it’s hard to identify. Marshall for sure is my favorite Seahawks type CB in this draft, I do like CB Alex Carter, a little stiff, but he brings so much more to the table, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he ends a no. 2 CB in this league for a long time.
You nailed it with Mebane, I personally have complete faith in him returning, but you always have to have a contingency in place for injuries, and they have no run-stuffer/tilted nose tackle. This what I think they’ll target later in the draft.
What do you think of Ellis McCarthy (UCLA)? Big, 338, 6’5 with long arms, but not the quickest. Or Derrick Lott from Chattanooga who is 314 but ran a 1.77 10 and under 5 in the 40. Fairly long arms, quick and seems strong. Both should be around late.
Funny you ask. Because McCarthy was a guy that all summer long was being touted as a 1st or 2nd round pick. I asked Rob about him recently and I think he summed him up perfectly. Said he was hit and miss that flashed occasionally, but would be a nice project in the late rounds as you said.
DT Derrick Lott is a guy that you love to root for, he has an unbelievably inspirational back-story plus the talent and size. The only thing about Lott that I personally am concerned with is his age. I think he may be 24 or 25. Seattle does take older prospects though, so maybe he is an ideal option.
All in all though, 2 really good late round DTs that would be perfect for a back-up/developmental role. Good options.
If the rumors are correct and we get Wiesnewski at Center and Jennings at WR this is my 7 Round Mock for the Hawks. My 3 favourite 2nd -3rd players in the draft are WR Agholor , Mcbride and CB B.Jones I think all 3 will be great pros but I don’t think we will be able to get them
2nd Rd – DE P.Smith (Miss) or H. Andrersen (Stanford)
3rd Rd – CB S.Nelson (Oregon St.)
4th Rd – Safety J.Tartt
4th Rd – WR D. Waller (G-Tech)
4th Rd OG T.Poole (SD St.)
5th Rd Safety – K Drummond (Mich St.)
5th Rd Leo – Z Hodges (Harvard)
5th Rd CB N. Marshall (Auburn)
6th Rnd OT R. Crisp (NC St.)
6th Rnd DT D Lott (Chat)
7th Rd WR/ KR M Alford (W.Vir)
UDFA Targets -Smelter (G-Tech), Gibson (V-Tech), T Barnes (Clem), D Day (Mis St.) Covington (Rice)
I like your prospective Mock. I like Alford a lot.Fiery,tough player. Finisher. Great return specialist. Very Seahawky.
I think Alford will go in R4-R5.
He would be a steal in the 7th round, for sure.
I do too. Him and WR George Farmer are my 2 favorite guys right now, that we have a realistic shot of getting. I’d add Kenny Bell and Tre McBride next.
I wonder about farmer. Early in the roster build Pete showed a real lack of enthusiasm fou usc guys and seemed to chase those recruited that he never got to commit, irvin, later Percy harvin.
I wonder if George farmer wouldn’t have been better playing one more year or transferring and playing somewhere else.
Maybe. He also drafted Anthony McCoy, Malcolm Smith, Mike Morgan, Allen Bradford, ‘Big’ Mike Williams, well he signed him, and I know I’m forgetting someone.
This is a guy that PC has known since he was 9 or 10 years old. He used to attend USC practices with Kenechi Udeze who was dating Farmer’s sister at the time. He was also the no. 1 recruit at the WR position coming out of high school in 2011.
He’s a physical freak, Was a track star and smoked D’Anthony Thomas one year. He’s big, strong, physical, fast, quick, great work ethic. And is a devastating run blocker. Battled back from 2 major injuries and 1 minor one, and never complained, He’s a ‘survivor’ type of WR that Seattle really likes. And IMO would just enjoy being a part of a team and would never complain about being brought along slowly.
Just a unique kind of wide-out, Has Jermaine Kearse esque size, but with a Kevin Norwood skill set, and P-Rich or Golden Tate style blocking.
Too funny. I didn’t know PC was so tight with Farmer.
Not necessarily. McCoy, Morgan, Smith (though not anymore). I wouldn’t say he favors USC prospects, but I wouldn’t say he shies away from them either. I would think it depends on the particular prospect and the particular need.
Farmer may have been recruited by PC originally, but it was Lane Kiffin that got his commitment. Outside what PC can see on film and learn from the SC staff, he probably doesn’t have much personal knowledge about Farmer.
I agree that he would have been better playing one more year. No need to transfer, with Agholor off to the NFL, Farmer would be the team’s #1 WR. He was the #1 WR until injured, then Agholor took over. But none of that changes his skill/talent level or his size/athleticism at a position of true need for SEA. It’s been suggested he could convert to CB, what with 4.35 speed. But either way, he’s worth a hard look in R6-R7 or especially as an UDFA.
Exactly. He’s an ideal type of developmental wide-out in the 6th or 7th round.
He’s also a physical specimen too. He definitely should have stayed another year, but you can’t blame the kid for doing what he did, with what we know about him. Not saying you are faulting him Peter, but for those that have.
I think he was miss used at USC. And shouldn’t necessarily stayed there. I definitely dont fault him because a year with another small injury doesn’t change his draft outlook and I think even an amazing year when weighed against past results could have pushed him to the third? Fourth?
I think Seattle could be the perfect spot. The team is long on development and patient with injuries if they persist. I’d like to see him here. My bigger thought was carrol is a hard one to pin down based on past recruits.
True.
One reason I like him is because Seattle has tried to find his body type previously. Chris Harper and Phil Bates are perfect comps to him physique wise. Of course Farmer is the superior talent, but I think you’ll see my point,
I’d like to see us draft Jeff Heuerman (TE, Ohio State) in round 3-4. Good athlete (faster pro day 40 than combine 40) who catches everything near him and a great blocker. Might seems like an odd pick since we just got Jimmy Graham, but Grahams not young. Heuerman’s 6’5″ and 255 lbs. Similar to Maxx Williams but targeted a lot less by the Buckeyes because they had so many weapons on offense. I have visions of the Patriots double-TE sets with Gronk and Hernandez. Two big targets for Russell Wilson. Add a speedy outside WR/returner and create absolute nightmares for defenses who still have to try to stop Lynch.
Also 33 bench reps and a 36.5″ vertical!
And this could be the young guy to grow with Wilson, be his career go-to guy for outlet passes and third down conversions. And … I’ll stop replying to myself now. Just kinda excited by this guy who’s pretty much been under the radar.
He’s got a ‘Seahawky’ type of personality that’s for sure.
I’m an OSU grad, so I admit I’m biased. I watched every game this year and I can’t remember Heuerman dropping anything. Plus he blocked for Zeke Elliot (another player I wouldn’t mind seeing in a Seahawks uniform down the road) who ran for 200+ yards against Wisconsin, Bama, and Oregon to end the season.
Yeah, ‘Zeke’ would be ideal wouldn’t he? The 2 HBs from Arkansas Jonathan Williams and Alex Collins are also highly intriguing.
And of course the 2 Alabama backs. Derrick Henry is just a freak, and Kenyon Drake has size, elite speed and the athleticism Seattle loves. Drake reminds me of a bigger version of HB Reggie Bush.
But, back to your point, Herrmann would make a fantastic 3rd TE IMO. He’s a guy I’ve had my eye on the whole season. Nice to get a Buckeye’s perspective.
Nick Chubb at Georgia is another interesting prospect. 5’10” and 230 lbs – built like a fullback but fast enough to rip off long TD runs. Next year’s RB prospects may be as good as this year’s.
Oh yeah, damn, I forgot all about HB Nick Chubb. I agree about next year’s draft at the HB position. Maybe not AS deep, but probably better value or talent throughout the top 100.
The Red Zone aspect of Graham is not the key IMHO. What is the key in this trade is the increase in 3rd down conversion. When we are at 3rd and 4 to go, putting Lynch, Graham, Baldwin, Willson and Kearse/PRich/Norwood/Mathews on the field together provides a big stress to the defense. If Graham is split wide or goes in motion, Wilson can read the coverage because Graham just became the de facto #1 target. Man or zone will get keyed from graham. If a defense doubles Graham, check to a run by Lynch. If its a zone or Graham in single man to man, Graham gets the ball high at 8 yards down the field on a seam or slant route, depending on coverage. That play is a high percentage conversion and is Graham’s specialty.
This is the key to the trade because it prevents the 3 and outs that we had in the Super Bowl and throughout the season. Our defense, especially the secondary was beat up last year because they have played too many plays over the past 2 seasons and specifically in the Super Bowl. The offense needed some juice to get the 1st downs and have extended long series. If PRich comes back this year, especially in the 2nd half of the season, he becomes a HR threat on deep balls with Graham on the underneath routes.
The offense should be fairly unpredictable and explosive again, leaving Lynch to close out games with punishing runs. This season looks like a lot of fun for the 12th man.
Totally agree with you on that one. Graham is almost impossible to cover one on one when he is split out alone. Slant, fade, back shoulder pass while he blocks out the cover – very hard to stop.
That being the case he creates miss matches for others around him. Just remember how effective Matthews was when guarded by a shorter CB in the SB. When Graham draws the taller/bigger cover we will see more of that. I’m also pretty sure we will never face cover zero again in the next few years. Lynch should love that.
My personal new favorite is 2 TE set with Willson and Graham, Baldwin at the slot and Matthews out wide. With 3 6-5 and above targets someone should find a favorable match-up
Consider me very pleased indeed..
I think now this is Russell’s time to prove he is elite as a QB. We may need another great WR, but the excuses for why he cannot complete passes because he has average receivers is gone. Wilson has the weapons and now needs to improve his decision making to rise the level of contract he is about to receive. Time to be clutch.
I don’t know man the best winning percentage of any QB in his first three years? Seems pretty clutch to me
Absolutely! We are not going to see 6-4 Brandon Browner or anyone like him in 2015. Matthews forced New England to alter their coverage to contain him. No defense will be able to match up with the size we will put on the field. Pete Carroll always had big WR’s at USC. Now he has that again and is set to dominate the NFL they same way he dominated the PAC-12.
That is awesome.
What Graham does to keep defenses honest with the running game, and as important: dictate matchups to the defense is invaluable. So few players are this huge and important of a chess piece. Gronk is really the only other player who has this total versatility. Guys like Calvin, Cobb, or Greg Olsen do it but only to a degree of what you can do what Graham can do. He can control the middle of the field as well as dictate coverages and make the defense commit one way or another and we can scheme and audible plays to exploit that. I can’t wait to get into more of the Xs & Os. Film breakdowns are going to be exciting off-season material in study of our projected offense for 2015 and beyond. This is the best move we could possibly have made this year.
Love it!
I think they’re both equally vital. Seattle should be a better red zone team and they need to convert 3rd downs. Solve both problems with the addition of one player and there you go.
I would love to see them make sure what happened in the SB never happens again, by having not only Jimmy Graham, but other big targets, including Matthews, and also more small/quick. The ability to mix/match big ball and small ball depending on the opponent. That really is all the Patriots offense is about. Why not do the same, and better?
”This is the key to the trade because it prevents the 3 and outs that we had in the Super Bowl and throughout the season. Our defense, especially the secondary was beat up last year because they have played too many plays over the past 2 seasons and specifically in the Super Bowl. The offense needed some juice to get the 1st downs and have extended long series.”
Very well said.I think this was the biggest problem.And it’s solved.But i think we needed a red zone target too.Remember our field goal in the Super bowl,3rd quarter, score was 14-14. First play Lynch ran 8 yard.Second play Turbin 1 yard. Third one Lynch no gain.And field goal. We should have scored TD in that drive.If we could,then score would be 28-28.I think it was one of the reasons for lose.
Maybe PC couldn’t forget this and called that pass game in the last play.He trusted Lynch in that 3rd-1(before field goal).Beast mode has stopped and couldn’t get first down. And Carroll preferred pass play in the last play because same thing could have happened again.
Either way we needed that red zone weapon. At least RW3 can try that target in red zone and we wont have to run for every play.
I watched that play again.I mean before field goal.It seems Carpenter screwed up in double team with Unger.He gave up early and left Unger alone.(And after that he couldn’t block linebacker in the second level)Unger forced to step back and collided with Lynch.I suppose we needed Tukuafu to be there and block Rob Ninkovich,who tackled Lynch.And Dont’a Hightower was waiting there to prevent RW3’s hand off fake and running.Our 2 receivers was wide open behind the scrimmage,one of them could get 1st down but RW3 preferred hand-off to Lynch.4 WR was too much even if you want to force defense for dime and prevent 8 man in the box.And if you place 4 WR you should throw them when they are available.If you don’t trust your receivers then don’t place four of them.Very bad play.That one and the last one.I hope Darrell Bevell learned some lesson.And i am happy Carpenter left this team.Excited about Ty Sambrailo.I hope he will be an upgrade over Carpenter.
Rob – can’t live without you! Fortunately, since you’re thirty odd years younger than me (or thereabouts), most likely I won’t have to live without you – you – poor sod – will have to (eventually) live without me. See, your loss.
I’m a huge fan of the Jimmy Graham trade. After the Harvin debacle, it’s good to see Schneider hasn’t lost his mojo and is still willing to swing for the Glory Move. Kudos to the chubby one.
However, I’ve still a few concerns. I’ve watched Graham for years and seen him make some great plays – but – when HIS team needed him against the greatest defense of all time he caught 1 pass in 8 attempts. We owned him, our defense even knew the brand of jockstrap he was wearing. To this day Chancellor says he even remembers the color of it – apparently, it was pink, with yellow bunnies on it (surely Kam wouldn’t lie would he?). How good will he be – in the red zone – in the last 26 seconds on the biggest stage of the world when everyone knows we’re going to him…
MY answer to the above question is – in the unlikely event that such a so obviously invented scenario ever could actually exist – I mean – in the last 26 seconds of the biggest game ever – where did that even come from… here’s what would happen. Russell would come up to the line (NOT in the shotgun – so that the defense would HAVE to respect the possibility of a hand-off to the Beast) DaBeast would be behind Wee Russell to his right, in the slot on the right would be Graham. Russell would take the ball hand it to Lynch, or not, keep it (or not) and run right behind Graham who was removing the CB covering him with a crushing block while Wilson runs for the score (or not) while Russell runs two steps before throwing on the fly to Grafham for “Glory” – or not, while Russell then stops (or not) , pivots (or not) and throws all the was back against the flow to Willson for the score. In other words – no defense will be able to really key on Graham because the offense will have three superstars (at what they do) – Wilson, Lynch and Graham – thus making guys like Baldwin and Willson even more dangerous. I get it…
I keep reading in the many, many articles I’ve read about this trade suggestions that 2014 was not a vintage Graham year. His production and effectiveness were both down. I’ve seem tons of highlight reels of his play – BUT – how many of those plays were from the 2014 season? I understand he has a (chronic?) platar fasciitis problem and a shoulder injury that was so concerning he was actually quoted as saying he rejected surgery because he didn’t want to be out “six months.” I’m concerned.
MY answer to that is I’ve crossed my fingers (on both hands) and I trust our doctors. However, a lingering injury to his feet (or foot – as the case may be) which impairs his speed, or quick cutting ability, would seriously detract from his ability to make the quick moves necessary to get separation. Also, a shoulder injury for a 6′ 7″ guy whose major innate skill is his ability to lift his shoulder to make the high catch would also be a major impediment to his production going forward. If his injuries are going to reduce his physical ability by 5% or 10% from what it has been – that might just be enough for him to become just a slightly taller Willson or Matthews. So, that one small niggly remains for me. I SO, SO, SO hope it is not the niggly that turns; “Graham’s Trade for Glory” into “Harvin Two – The Debacle Lives On.”
Fingers crossed, scotch glass filled (single malt of course) and prayers made to every deity that people have invented over the millennia…
Jolly good, Mate!!!!
Don’t worry, be happy!!!
Thanks for sharing those thoughts Mylegacy… and thanks for the kind words 🙂
Graham’s injuries are definitely concerns. He did pass his physical. If he hadn’t, wouldn’t the trade have been nixed? All we can hope is that the Hawks medical team is working on making him right.
We should also look forward to possibilities beyond just Russ-Lynch-Graham. Think of what multiple TE sets might do. And then add some new playmaking WRs to this mix. The whole offense can be transformed.
The New Orleans Saints were 7-9 in 2014 largely because their defense was terrible. They were next to last in defense giving up 26.5 points per game. This is almost 10 points per game more than the Seahawks. What New Orleans did do well was pass the football. They were first overall in offense and it was due almost entirely to their passing game. Drew Brees completed just under 70% of his passes. Russell Wilson was at 63%. Many of Brees’ passes went to Jimmy Graham. Graham caught 85 of 124 targets for 889 yards and 10 TD’s Graham was not the only target, however. 6-4’ Marques Colston caught 59 balls for 900 yards and 5 TD’s. 6-0” Kenny Stills caught 63 balls for 931 yards with 3 TD’s. The 5-10 speedster Brandon Cooks caught 53 balls for 550 yards and3 TD’s. Finally, 6-5 Josh Hill caught 5 TD’s in the red zone. New Orleans moved the ball thru the air and converted in the red zone.
By comparison, Seattle’s passing game was pretty pedestrian. Marshawn Lynch led the band with 4 receiving TD’s. Baldwin and Luke Willson had 3 each. Seattle spread the ball around and relied on trickery to accumulate 20 passing TD’s compared to the 33 that New Orleans was able to rack up. The problem, as has been discussed on this board for weeks, was the lack of a true number one receiver that was effective in the red zone. Seattle now has that in Jimmy Graham.
Seattle also has the complementary pieces to go with Graham. Baldwin and Richardson are a lot like Kenny Stills. Matthews is a big wideout like Marques Colston. 6-5” Josh Hill is their second TE much like Luke Willson. It is surprising the similarities between the two receiver groups. The only thing we lack is a diminutive receiver like Brandin Cooks with game changing speed and the ability to return kicks. Phillip Dorsett, come on down!
Darrell Bevell’s conundrum will be: How do you assimilate the improved passing game with the preexisting run first offense? We would now seem to have the best of both worlds. Our offense was not bad last year by any measure. We finished ninth overall in the NFL. The expectation should be for a more balanced attack that keeps the defense guessing. We shot ourselves in the foot last year by leading the league in penalties (130). If we clean up the penalties, improve the passing and maintain what we had with Marshawn running the ball we should dominate on both sides of the ball. Injuries become the only concern. A devastating injury to Marshawn or Graham would leave us with the offense we had in 2014. An offense that was still on of the best in the NFL.
Interesting analysis of the 2 WR corps HLC. Given the similarities between Wilson and Brees, the two passing games are very much alike on paper if not in execution.
As to the diminutive WR with game changing speed and KR/PR abilities, I’ve shifted my focus from guys like Dorsett, Smith, Lockett, etc. – each likely to require SEA’s R2 pick if they’re even still available at that point.
Now, thanks to V12, I’m locked onto Super Mario Alford. Using Dorsett as a comparable:
Physical Measurements:
Height Weight Arm Hand
Alford 5’8″ 180 31.25″ 9.375″
Dorsett 5’10” 185 30.25″ 9.375″
Performance:
40yd 10yd split 3-Cone 20yd BP BJ VJ
Alford 4.28 1.50 6.64 4.07 13 121″ 34″
Dorsett 4.33 1.54 6.70 4.11 13 122″ 37″
With the exception of the vertical jump, Alford is a more explosive athlete than Dorsett. Also, Alford did not attempt the VJ at his pro day. His pro day 40 time is .15 sec quicker than his combine performance, so it’s reasonable to expect he would be able to improve on his 34″ VJ as well.
Alford is 2″ inches shorter than Dorsett, but has the same size hands, arms that are an inch longer, and weighs only 5lbs less.
Finally, and perhaps more importantly, Alford can be had at least 2 rounds later than Dorsett.
My concern is that tiny guys like Super Mario will get swallowed up and beat up. I have that issue with Dorsett, who lacks physicality.
Thanks for the shout-out CHAWK.
Here’s the thing about Alford Steele. He doesn’t play small. His tape has quite a few contested passes and even a couple instances of him walling off the defender. Alford is a dynamic weapon.
I think that’s a valid concern. Baldwin is a slot player and the smaller rookie WRs being discussed often must play out of the slot to avoid press coverage; bump-and-run.
I’d rather add an outside receiver with height to play many of Kearse’ snaps and help offset what shortcomings C. Matthews may still have.
Realistically I think we need to add both – one way or another. However, it’s possible Norwood could step up and if so: awesome.
I’d trust Alford’s combine numbers over his pro day numbers. Pro day is hand measured, and there can be a lot of human error. Combine is electronic.
So then he’s .1 slower than Dorsett. Wouldn’t electronic be the way to go? Some guys may hit the stop watch a tad slower than others.
Sorry, .01
Damn again my fault, I caught what you were saying after I posted the comment about electronic being better. I thought you said electronic at the pro day, and combine was hand measured.
Alford was measured closer to 5’9″ than 5’8″….just sayin..
With the steep learning curve of the ZBS, wouldn’t it make sense to value OL that have ZBS experience? What colleges run that?
Many of them. Oregon, Florida State, Notre Dame, Utah, West Virginia, Michigan, Arizona, Cal.
This could be why Center Grasu from Oregon might be someone to watch in 3rd or 4th round… a close of Unger in almost every measurable. If you can get a starting center in round 3 or 4 that last 5-7 years, that would be a solid pick-up.
Grasu is injured. Does he medically check out? Or would he have to redshirt a season? Say they take Grasu. It will be Lewis’ job, and his to lose down the road.
Everybody describes Grasu as being a “clone” of Unger. The fact is that Grasu is significantly smaller than Max is. Grasu may be a technically great blocker, but he’s like 6:3, and 285 lbs. Max is about 6:4.5 and about 315/320.
It’s a major deal when the center doesn’t need double team help on every running play.
Rob did you see Shaq Riddick posted a 1.57s 10yd split at his pro day?
Rob, it may be a good time to do an updated analysis of O line options for the Hawks. Since this is obviously going to be perhaps THE area of focus. We might be waiting on Wiesniewski news, but according to Pete, it will take a while in any case.
I was looking at this film of RT Shaq Mason. Looks really good here. Film also includes big plays by Deandre Smelter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SoK5-s3Ao
Shaw Mason as a RT? Isn’t he only 6’1 or 6’2? Did you mean RG?
Sorry, yes, RG.
Yeah he played RG at Ga Tech.
Shaq Riddick, Shaq Mason, Shaq Thompson. Hmmmm. I wonder who was famous around 20 plus years ago that parents were naming their child after him? For the life of me, I cannot think of anyone…
Nice one!
That film that you posted on mason was completely underwhelming. He didn’t hold his blocks, whiffed badly a couple of times trying to get to he second level, and not a ton of move the pile. He seems short and doesn’t have a long reach. I just don’t see the hype.
Shaquille O’Neal.
I was just looking through the roster thinking about the draft and here are the spots I thought would be up for grab for draft picks to compete for.
-(2) Guard/ Center Positions either starter or backup
-(1) Offensive Tackle Positon
-(2) Wide Receiver spots (one definitely as a kick returner)
-(1)Backup Strong Safety
-(1)Backup Free Safety
-(1)Developmental Corner
-(2) DTs
-(1)Developmental Edge Rusher
11 total roster spots up for grabs.
Works out nicely considering we have 11 draft picks + all the red shirt and practice squad guys to compete for these 11 spots.
Anything I am missing. I think we really need to develop some quality depth at Safety behind Earl and Cam when Jeron Johnson leaves we are really thin at Safetyand that is such a critical position for our defensive scheme.
I’m going to throw in LB OLB/MLB/LEO guy(s). We have 2 spots that are open now in the depth department. Specifically, a LB that can pass rush and a back-up MLB with some size and range.
I think we need a MLB. The run defense suffered without Wagner.
We have more needs than there are draft spots, I think. For instance, according to projections to date that I’m looking at, there look to be logjams around rd 2-4 for D line and pass rushers. Which is exactly the spot where some of our favorite WRs and O linemen are as well.
Prioritizing seems especially tricky this year.
Existing backups at safety: Shead, Pinkins, Terrell, Bailey. Not enough? And at OLB, KPL should get his chance.
After reviewing the possible comp picks and adding them into what Seattle has.. Mock 3.0
1st – Traded (for Jimmy!)
2nd – Ali Marpet, C/G, Hobart (Combine Standout) Height: 6’4. Weight: 307. 40 Time: 4.98.
3rd – Darren Waller, WR/TE, Georgia Tech Height: 6-6. Weight: 238. 40 Time: 4.46.
4th (1) Eric Rowe, FS, Utah Height: 6-1. Weight: 205. 40 Time: 4.45.
4th (2) Justin Cox, CB, Mississippi State Height: 6-1 Weight: 191. 40 Time: 4.36
4th (3) Davis Tull, OLB, Tennessee-Chattanooga Height 6-2. Weight: 246. Projected 40 Time: 4.6?.
5th (1) Nick Marshall, CB/QB/ATH, Auburn Height: 6-1. Weight: 207. 40 Time: 4.54.
5th (2) Derrick Lott, DE, Tennessee-Chattanooga Height 6’4″. Weight: 314. 40 Time 4.99.
5th (3) Andy Gallik, C, Boston College Height: 6-2. Weight: 318. 40 Time: 5.80.
6th (1) Louis Trinca-Pasat, DT, Iowa Height: 6-1. Weight: 290. 40 Time: 4.96.
6th (2) Corey Grant, RB/KR, Auburn Height 5-9. Weight: 201. 40 Time: 4.30.
7th Aubrey Walker, G/T, USC Height: 6-6. Weight: 315. 40 Time: 5.20.
Trying to be realistic about which guys will be available each round. I have plenty of draft crushes, but I think they will sadly be gone before the second round pick for Seattle.
Good mock Charlie. There’s also Karlos Williams at HB as well. He’s raw and may be redundant to C-Mike, but man is he versatile and athletic!
Grant is a really fast and explosive player. He has the ability to KR, which would be a nice bonus. Pro day he dropped a 4.30 40, his size would be a bit of a concern, but if he is not the featured back…. no issue to me.
I like Grant as KR and RB depth with Turbin entering contract year.
The scouts say Marpet may be best at center in the NFL. He has the body for it. Unfortunately, he played the last three years as a LT at Hobart. He made the move inside to OG at the Senior Bowl. He has never played at center. He is attractive because he was the workout warrior at the combine along the offensive line. It is a big step, however, from tackle at Hobart to NFL center in a ZBS. Where ever he ends up, he will probably be competing for an OG spot his first year. OC is something that takes time. He may never learn to make a blind snap in the shotgun or make the line calls. It is expecting too much for him to make the roster as a OC and beat out the competition he is going to face. He will be lucky to make the move inside and stay on the roster at guard. That would leave us with a hole at the center spot in 2015. While I love the athleticism, I think a more plug and play guy like Gallik, Finney or Grasu would be a better fit.
His SPARQ rating will be really high… one measurement that Seattle loves in their OL picks, plus the small school chip on his shoulder to prove himself in the NFL.
Charlie, I like a lot of those names, but your mock would leave the Hawks with Waller, who is developmental and raw, might not see the field for a season, which would mean existing WRs+Graham. Is that enough?
Hot off the NFL.com presses, a guy to watch later in the draft
“Neal Sterling (6-foot-3 3/8, 238 pounds) was the standout of the pro day. He’s a wide receiver with a terrific upper body, and some feel he might be a tight end in the pros; others see him as a wide receiver who’ll have to cut about 10 pounds. He looked very good in his workout, running good routes and catching the ball well despite one drop.
Sterling posted 40 times of 4.62 and 4.64. He had a 35-inch vertical and 9-8 broad jump. He ran a 4.25 short shuttle and 7.07 3-cone drill, and he threw the bar up 16 times.”
What school is he from?
MONMOUTH.. in NJ
Just thinking about what positions we add.
2-3 DL
2-3 OL
2 WR
1 TE
1 QB
1 S
1 CB
0 RB
0 LB
Rob…Long, long time reader. Remember when you were predicting Russell Wilson AND Turbin going to the Hawks (flip-flopped the rounds but who’s counting!). Have you ever been interviewed by 710 Radio in Seattle? If not, I hope they are reading this. Great Job.
That was the first draft I really watched cut UPS. What’s amazing is how damn good that draft class for the team was by contrast that draft class with harvin, Michael may go down as the worst.
Rob its honestly amazing how you went from 30 comments an article to tho nice work! This is literally the smartest most open minded (about prospects who knows about the rest of your lives!) most engaged site in town for draft talk/ hawk talk. Nice one to rob. Nice one to everyone else.
Just think of the team you could have if you were willing to trade your draft:
You could have traded a 1st rounder for Jimmy Graham, a probable second round pick for Adrian Peterson, a 5th round pick for Mike Wallace, and it only would have cost you most of a draft and over $30 million of cap space.
In each case, you can say there’s no way anyone else in this draft will produce the way those guys would with the draft pick in their given round. On the other case, if you live by these types of trades, you’re going to have some good stars and terrible depth because they inexpensve guys are going to have to come from somewhere.
I love the Graham trade, don’t get me wrong though.
If you have that cap space and those 3 players are what you need most, you’d be an idiot not to do just that. (ok, maybe not Wallace)
drafted players are cheap but they are a gamble. You need them because you can’t pay top dollar to every player on your team (Cap space). However, if you are a team with 50-60M in cap space and a roster that a player or 3 from SB rings you should actually do just that.
We do not have 50-=60M. We have only 23. We could afford just one top dollar talent. We could have paid 10M plus guaranteed future money for Thomas and keep the 31st pick. We paid 8M, no guaranteed money and we get a 3rd round pick next year for Graham. Sounds like a great move to me.
Waller is getting a lot of attention for obvious reasons. Do the Hawks need him? They already have two big targets: Graham, and Matthews, who is 6-5 218, runs a 4.5. Waller is one inch taller, 20 lbs heavier, runs approximately the same 40.
If Waller would be redundant, perhaps he could be removed from our mocks.
That’s my current line of thinking, They actually have 3 big targets. TE Luke Willson. And now with Jimmy Graham as the joker TE, where does Waller fit in? They need a slot/speed/offensive weapon, and another possession type of receiver, because Norwood might not pan out and this could be Kearse’s last year.
Exactly! And Waller sounds like he may take a little longer to develop his route running, although I understand he catches well. The drug suspension worries me, some as well. But, your point about a greater need for a speed guy, perhaps who can return punts/kicks is a greater need. A T Y Hilton type would be nice. And maybe Farmer as a possession guy with his girth.
Yup! I don’t personally think WR is a huge need. They need a couple guys, but it’s not a glaring hole like the O-line. Love USC WR George Farmer and W. Virginia WR/R ‘Super’ Mario Alford.
Just watched the Alford YouTube tape again. As well as the Dorsett tape. Alford seems much more of a hands catcher, while Dorsett seemed to cradle the ball at times. Very impressed with Alford, and I appreciate that you pointed him out. Seems to run routes well (love the comeback route they featured), and has good eyes for gaps in the defense.
Agreed about the need issue. Would prefer to see emphasis on the trenches, as always, and give some of our young talent a chance to show their stuff. Very impressed with the sure hands shown by both Richardson and Norwood, and Matthews certainly earned a deeper look after his SB game.
Thanks man. I’m just trying to give us some options and guys to look at in case all of our favorites are off the board.
I was looking at the combine list of invites and noticed that Alford’s hand size and arm length was quite unique for a 5’8-5’9 wide receiver. I mean I knew who he was and had seen a couple W. Virginia games, but when I turned on that YouTube clip I was blown away.
He fights for contested passes, walls off defenders, makes over the shoulder catches, runs good routes, catches everything, and has a 2nd gear. If this kid gets in space, he’s gone. No one will catch him and he’ll fight for extra yardage in the rare instance they do. Great, great point about his eyes for gaps. That’s a unique trait you identified.
I have another one coming up I’ll highlight for us. But his footage may be harder to find because he’s an O-lineman. So if I need a clip, help me out some, yeah?
You bring up a question for me. I really don’t know where to look for clips other than YouTube. I’m an old coot, and this whole web based phenomenon is like a whirlwind to me. If you can guide me to some sites that feature film work on players, I would much appreciate it. Being retired, I have the time to apply. And the long time interest and fascination with the draft.
http://www.draftbreakdown.com
Thanks, that looks like what I was looking for.
Yeah I have a lot of extra time as well, because I’m a care taker. Rob gave the link to draft breakdown.com and that is by far the best one to get clips from. It shows the good and the bad of a prospect.
One thing I like about YouTube clips is that it shows off what a guy is good at or can do, and that’s what I tend to focus on myself.
I also like guys that are raw or full of potential, because you can mold them and they don’t have many bad habits or habits that need to corrected/erased, if I make any sense.
I’d rather take a guy that in a year or two will continue to get better instead of a guy that’s maxed out or has already hit his ceiling,].
That’s all right if your an ‘old coot,’ I like having you here and enjoy discussing/debating and I think I could learn some things from you. I’m only 30 myself so maybe you can learn some things from me, huh?
Kenny Bell is a very good hands catcher. Look at his film.
I like Waller as a prospect mainly because he is a project that can be developed the way Seahawks wants him to be. He could put up 10 pounds and play with Graham on two TE sets, or play some possession receiver or go wide out and play his speed as a flanker. That kind of versatility I don’t think Matthews can match. He’s way lighter and still slower.
But I think he’s not a 4th round player imo. We need polished players Warlock rounds to play wide out, since our polished receivers are TE Graham and SLOT Baldein, for wide we still lack some polish and we need to adress that with early rounders imo. Our best shot is McBride. I’d even reach for him at 63.
I really like Mcbride and Waller as well. I think if we got both and added them to Matthews, Norwod and P Rich that in a year or two or receiving core would go from a weakness to a strength. Which would work out perfectly timeframe wise the Beast retiring and Wilson to continue developing.
I see the value in a guy like Lockette out of K St as a kick /punt returner and slot receiver but I just feel Mcbride and Waller offer so much more long term potential. Wilson seems to like to throw outside and struggles in the middle of the field with slant routes etc. I just don’t see us getting good value out of Lockette except in the return game and Mcbride is a good kick returner and Blackmon can handle the punt return duties.
I think about Russ playing in the Pro Bowl with V jackson and the thought of having some big outside targets (Matthew, Waller) is very exciting.
Add in a mismatch tight end in Graham,a seam buster like Willson, a burner like P Rich and a couple of solid possession receivers like Norwood and Mcbride sounds like a pretty strong receiving group to me.
This does not include Baldwin who would be good in the slot but really needs to grow up. The display in the SB was embarassing and his act is getting old. I know he is best friends with Sherm but if he keeps this act up for another year when his contract is up I say move on. He just seems like a bit of a cancer in the WR room and tends to clash with Russ. A diva with average skills is just not worth it.
True that about Wilson not looking great passing to the middle but it’s true his best weapon through the middle was a post-injuries Sidney Rice. Bevell never freed Zach Miller to be that option. Graham will chance perception of Wilson’s work, and so would do a good route runner like McBride. Agholor would do something like that for the Hawks too but I don’t like him for Seattle mainly because he line up the best at Baldwin’s sweet spots.
I like Norwood’s chances moving forward too. Decent size, fast 40 time, decent hands, and showed up good on his few targets running short slant routes as a possession receiver.
No arguing that Waller is the best project type of receiver in this draft. If the Hawks want to go 3 WR this year, I’d go McBride, Smelter and Waller. GTech has a program that build valuable traits in receivers for a run first team like SEA. We should take them all.
Greg Cosell said that (based on film) Wilson is probably his best on seam throws.
Bye bye Jeron Johnson 🙁
Sad to see him go he was a good depth, special teams player.
McLaughlin is already starting to build something in Washington and has had a great free agency so far. I was worried when the Redskins hired him as he is an incredible talent evaluator and was a big part of building our 2013 roster which feel was one of the deepest and best in NFL history.
Yeah, but is also good to see our guys get paid. It helps to keep the pipeline flowing. Jeron Johnson was one of those UDFA’s we love to sign and develop. It just encourages the next one to sign with the Hawks when he gets his pay day.
You are right there I am glad for these guys as well. They work hard learn their craft and then if they dont fit in our plans they move on for a nice payday.
This has to help when it comes to recruiting UDFA. When you look at the guys we have brought in and developed over the last 3-4 years if you are an UDFA the Hawks have to be one of your top choices.
Washington has a legit shot to make some noise this year. What are they missing? A CB, pass rushers, SS, and another O-lineman?
And they have a top 5 GM now if he can stay off the bottle. I think he will make them a contender quickly.
you forgot QB
The days are over of the Seahawks adding 8 or 10 guys from the draft to their 53 man roster each year. When you figure that a quite a few players who were not on the 53 at the end of the season (mostly on IR) will be coming aboard next year, the number of open roster slots is very slim. Guys like Kevin Pierre-Lewis, Cassius Marsh, Eric Pinkins, Greg Scruggs, Dion Bailey, Keavon Milton and Demetrius Bronson are like adding another draft class right there. Take the WR position for example… it is safe to assume that, with Paul Richardson on the PUP, the 53 will include Baldwin, Kearse, Norwood, Matthews and Lockette (mainly for special teams)… and when you add BJ Daniels if he wins the punt-return job, that is a full roster and no room for a rookie unless you cut someone like Lockette. I see these 11 picks in the draft being a roll-the-dice try to hit a home run or two, primarily on the offensive and defensive lines. I can see adding one C/OG, one OT, one DT, and one DE/Leo from this draft, and that is about it. I’m sure John will hit on someone else at S or LB, but by no means will most of this draft class be on the roster come September… the drama will be in trying to clear them through waivers and get them on the practice squad.
I disagree in that this Front Office has shown they will allow for competition and let the best man win. I think guys like Kearse, Lockette, Mcdaniel,Pinkens etc. are far from safe. If they draft players and they show more than these veteran players on the bubble then they will get roster spots. If they don’t earn them then they wont. I would be shocked if there are not at least 4-5 from this years draft on the 53 man roster next year.
I hope the FO does open this camp with intense competition—with no job safe, especially at WR.
Not only that, but also the PS, IR, and ‘ghost roster.’ There will even be a couple more guys if the rosters go from 53 to 55 like it’s been rumored.
There are a lot of players who are not safe.They will bring in a lot of competition which will be relatively high picks. We need players that can come in and contribute without a significant drop in talent.
Everybody seems to be focusing on o-line and W/O, while I think the Hawks will first focuse on D-line. safety and corner. return specialist will be high priority also. With the depth in this draft at the O-line position I think they will sprinkle them in mid-late rounds. I can see a C/G type late fourth. The Hawks calling card is defense and special teams. Trumps all. I also think they like their receivers. You know their touches are now going to be reduced. GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Jason La Canfora tweeted that Seattle and Dallas could emerge as legit suitors for Greg Hardy. Thoughts on this? I think even if he is suspended for the first 6 games next year, pull the trigger anyway. A modest 1-2 year contract would be a steal for a dominant defensive end.
Lots of teams with more cap, what’s holding everyone back? Plus don’t see how financially they get it done with other contract priorities
Well he is pretty much a terrible person. He also might be suspended to start next season. Those are probable reasons why teams wouldn’t want to touch him.
I could see him signing a one year deal with the Hawks. He needs to rebuild his reputation. The charges against him were dismissed. As unacceptable as his behavior was, it is not that unusual. It is just unusual for it to go to court.
Dismissed because he “allegedly” paid the woman money to not testify.
I hate the domestic abuse/ gun charges but the thought of adding this guy to our DL rotation would be downright scary. He was an absolute beast in Carolina. If they get him we will have to hold our nose a little but I think his addition would allow us to be even better than the last two years.
He’s a phenomenal talent. I wouldn’t be opposed to it, but I’m guessing he’ll end up in Dallas.
La Canforna is the only one I’ve seen linking Hardy with SEA. Virtually everyone else is saying he’ll sign with DAL.
Also, within the last hour his agent said Hardy will sign a longer, more expensive deal than everyone thought.
Dallas has a lot less cap space to work with than Seattle does.
By which I mean he’s probably too expensive for SEA at this point.
Still hoping for Starks though.
Stars signed with Clevland 2 yrs 8 million
Starks
Oh well, even $4mm apy was probably too much without cutting someone. McDaniel would be the obvious man out, considering they play the same position.
No argument on Hardy’s talent, but SEA would have to cut at least one DL (most likely an interior guy lik MCDaniel or Mebane) and Hardy plays the end.
Of course, you could go with Hardy/Avril at DE and Bennett/Mebane inside. That could be epic.
That would be scary. 3rd down Hardy and Avril off the edge with Bennett and Hill up the middle. Would put us on par with the Rams IMO as best pass rush in the league. That being said I think it is just a pipe dream. No way we could afford him.
I really wanted Starks. He is a better DT then most everyone else on our roster. Oh well!
On a talent basis alone he is a top 5 defensive end in the league. If he is going to get a second chance maybe he can turn his life around with the Hawks. We have taken reclamation projects in the past but no one with his issues. I would be surprised only because of how strong Pete Carrol’s stance was with the Ray Rice incident last year.
Does Hardy need to turn his life around? I don’t know what happened, and neither does anybody else on this board. Bring the guy in and make up our own minds, IMO.
He was charged and convicted of domestic violence and several gun related charges. He got off on appeal because they could not get the victim to appear for the appeal because Hardy had paid her off. So yes I am guessing unless you think it is ok to beat up women that he might need to turn his life around. I am all for second chances but lets not try to pretend the guy does not have any baggage. If he were coming out in the draft this year with his history no one would touch him.
Im not sure if any of you guys know PSD but it’s a forum where you talk about all professional sports. I go there mainly for football. Well they have a draft forum and they do a yearly 32 team mock draft. Basically one individual takes over a team and drafts for them. It takes several days to finish but it’s incredibly fun. So far we just finished the 2nd round. It started before the Graham trade so I was still in charge of the 31st pick. I ended up traded back with the Rams getting their 2nd, 5th and swapping 3rd round picks. With my first pick I selected Nelson Agholor and then Ty Sambrailo. To start the 3rd it comes down to Walford and Marpet. I wanna continue to add to the Oline but I also think the size at pass catcher would help since I technically don’t have Graham. It’s kinda a tough spot but I just wanted to ask what you guys think so far, and any plans for the rest of the draft.
I would say, if you bagged Agholor you made your one WR acquisiiton for the year. We took two last year. How many of those played? Only PRich. Dream all you want. Only one WR is going to push his way on to this roster. Since you cannot count the trade for Graham, you still have Unger. I would go with Marpet as the backup at center.
I agree about the wide receiver part. But I do think they’ll also take one later on in the 6th or 7th, stash him and let him develop, or bring him along slowly if they cut a WR in training camp, OTA’s, injuries, whatever.
One won’t cut it. We saw how our WR last year hurt the team. These guys are limited players – particularly Lockette and Kearse. And Matthews did nothing last year – couldn’t even beat out Lockette and Kearse. None of these guys should be confident about returning. They all should be in “fight to make the roster” mode. As it is, without adding talent, they are on the roster by default. Because we have Baldwin and four or five open spots. That’s unacceptable, IMO.
Rolling with the same squad is foolish. We need to add at least two guys who can contribute right away. Who can be our two and three. Ideally one would be a FA, but it doesn’t look like that will happen. I don’t think it will happen in the draft either, unfortunately.
Additionally, saying that only Richardson played is misleading – Norwood would have played more without injury.
By the way I guess Unger passed his physical with the Saints. He will be missed.
I guess if there was a hand shake deal with Wisneiwski we should find out in the next day or two. If we get him it would certainly open up a lot more options with the draft.
Even without Wisniewski the draft is pretty wide open after the 4th round. Not in any particular order but an OG, DE-LEO, WR, C, and developmental CB are really the only areas of need.
DT, FS, OT I think they’ll fill, but aren’t necessarily a need so much. I’m really starting to see JS’s point and agree with him that it’ll be a ‘cool draft.’
This NFL.com piece with alleged prospects linked to certain teams
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476441/article/nfc-west-draft-winds-rumors-connecting-players-nfl-teams
cites Kevin Johnson, Odighazuwa, Peters, E Kendricks as Hawks interests. I think Peters, Kendricks and Odi, all first rounders, could not be considerations. Kevin Johnson doesn’t flash anything special, and has 30 inch arms. Is this just lazy reporting?
I think that Peters and Kevin Johnson is. I see the appeal in those 2 for sure, but Seattle did attend the pro days and not only worked out, but interviewed ‘Diggy’ and Kendricks as well.
I know that ‘Diggy’ is a top 50 prospect, but it just makes me wonder why they’d focus on him and spend time with him if they didn’t think there was a realistic shot of getting him.
And as Rob said about Kendricks, SF does need a MLB now and has been linked to him. He’s right too in that he’d be a complete luxury, but he’s just a flat-out playmaker with speed, enjoys the game, and is so fun to watch. Do they need Kendricks? Absolutely not, but if there’s any team that can afford this type of pick/luxury it’s Seattle.
Maybe it is just early scouting on Seattle’s part, but it wouldn’t shock me to see one of these UCLA guys as our selection at no. 63.
We do know that Seattle really liked Mychal Kendricks when he came out. Did PC miss out or perhaps recruit the Kendrick brothers early on?
If Peters makes it to #63, they would be all over it. doubtful though. OO will go in the first.There are a lot corners I like better than Johnson.
Here is the list of our guys that are still free agents. Which ones will we re-sign and for how much? I am guessing that Kevin Williams, Gresham and TJax get an offer.
Zach Miller TE 29 – – – – –
Kevin Williams DT 34 – – – –
Heath Farwell ILB 33 – – – – –
Tarvaris Jackson QB 31 – – – –
Demarcus Dobbs DE 27 – – – – –
D’Anthony Smith DT 26 – – – – –
Deshawn Shead SS 26
Steve Shilling OL 26
Tony Moeaki TE 27
Jesse Williams DT 24 SEA TBD – – – – – –
Will Tukuafu FB 31 SEA TBD – – – – – –
David Gilreath WR 26 SEA TBD – – – – – –
Garrett Scott LT 23 SEA TBD – – – – – –
Landon Cohen DT 28 SEA TBD – – – – – –
Well, here is a surprise. It seems the team is re-signing Jesse Williams. It appears his knees are good to go.
That is hard to believe. Too many players were carried on injured reserve or the practice squad last year. With 11 picks this year, the Seahawks really need to clear out the dead wood. This will probably be Jesse Williams last chance. Maybe he is trade bait?
Just another guy to me. More competition. Can he stay healthy?
He would have been a first round pick had he been healthy when drafted.
Nice. I always liked the guy. Here’s to hoping he stays healthy.
I’m gong to say Shead and T-Jax. I really like Blake Sims as a 7th rounder or priority UDFA. Great versatility, good QB for the system.
Just saw on Rotoworld that we were digging into DGB. Wouldn’t doubt if he fell to the end of the 2nd round.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Probably will.
Help me here. I can’t find that at all. About DGB I mean.
Dana Brugler from CBS retweeted a report from Charles Robinson that the Hawks were doing a ton of background work on him
Thanks man.
“Running indoors on Field Turf, cornerback Darryl Roberts clocked times of 4.39 and 4.36 in the 40-yard dash, including a 1.48 10-yard split. He also had a 39-inch vertical and 11-1 broad jump. He ran a 4.08 short shuttle and 6.66 3-cone drill, and had 23 bench-press reps. He had an excellent workout, and a number of teams will be bringing him in for interviews after his pro day. He could be a sixth- or seventh-round pick.” Gil Brandt
I’m not sure how you can trust the 40 time. Roberts displayed an impressive amount of athleticism in both of the jumps, so his times could be legit. Couldn’t find any of his measurements. Wonder what his arm length is. Finding a discrepency in his height seeing 6’1″ and 5’11”, guessing it’s closer to 5’11”. Regardless he’s a late round prospect, with great performances across the board, to keep an eye on in a thin CB class.
Yeah his highlight tape is impressive. Hits like a LB, defends passes, tips a lot of balls. Has a big time ‘Seahawky’ personality. I can’t find his arm length either. Your right about height. He’s 5’11, 180-182 lb.
Another guy to keep an eye on as a late rounder is UNLV’s CB Tajh Hasson. His pro day was just as impressive. Both of these guys have that long/skinny build that Seattle seems to like at the position. And both would make fantastic nickel/slot corners.
I love “Swag”, would fit right in the LOB. And with a name like that, really want him. Kenny “Afro Thunder” Bell, too.