My first viewing of Will Howard had me intrigued
A thought dawned on me as I was putting this piece together on Sunday. The 2024 draft appears to have a top-10 pick problem.
This could be the second year in a row where teams aren’t getting value for money at the top of the draft. I’ve watched a fair few of the players being tipped to go very early in mock drafts and I have to say, there’s not been a lot to get excited about.
Caleb Williams will almost certainly be the #1 pick and Marvin Harrison Jr will be a worthy #2. After that though, it’s slim pickings. Just as it was this year with a limited pool of blue-chip players. I think we might see teams forced to consider profile, suitability and fit rather than simply running to the podium to draft the next ‘can’t miss’ talent. I suspect that’s what the Seahawks did this year but we’re already seeing people second-guessing the pick.
We’re only two weeks into the season and the online discussion is filled with Devon Witherspoon vs Jalen Carter chatter. This is my plea to the media and to Seahawks fans everywhere. Let’s not do this.
I’ve not seen Carter play for Philadelphia yet but I’ve no doubt he’s doing well. Talent was never an issue here. When he flashed at Georgia, he showed he can be a fantastic defensive lineman. He was the most naturally gifted player in the draft.
Yet he lasted until #9 for a reason and according to ESPN, even the Eagles were making a last-day decision on whether to consider him.
It will be revisionist history bordering on ignorance to brush off the extreme character flags surrounding Carter. These were not minor issues. We are talking about serious and multi-faceted concerns.
The Seahawks weren’t the only team that said no to Carter. The Eagles nearly did themselves. Philly were in a unique position within the league. They had a number of his former team mates on their roster and they were a Super Bowl team with a top-10 pick courtesy of an ill-advised New Orleans Saints trade. The GM Howie Roseman had money in the bank and could afford to roll the dice in a way other GM’s couldn’t.
Philadelphia was the best place for Carter. If he has great success with the Eagles, it doesn’t mean the same thing would’ve happened in Houston, Seattle, Detroit, Las Vegas, Atlanta or any of the other team who didn’t (or wouldn’t) have drafted him.
Let’s just embrace that and move on. The Seahawks weren’t staring at two cards on draft day, weighing up Witherspoon or Carter and making a call that would link the players forever. The truth is, Carter might not have even been on their draft board. My guess is he wasn’t on their board. We’ll probably never know for sure — but I think that is more likely than people realise.
It might annoy Seahawks fans who don’t have the information teams and league sources do on Carter — yet it was a totally justified position for the team to take. It’s why I spent three months getting dogs abuse for insisting Seattle wouldn’t take him. It was never going to happen, so there’s no point making this into a Witherspoon vs Carter comparison.
You might as well start comparing Witherspoon to Bijan Robinson, Lukas Van Ness or Will McDonald — all were probably more likely to land in Seattle after a trade down than Carter ever was.
Onto my draft notes from this week…
Early thoughts on the draft eligible defensive tackles
The best defensive tackle I’ve watched so far this year is McKinley Jackson at Texas A&M. He’s a shade under 6-2 and weighs 320lbs with great length (just under 34-inch arms). On tape he’s very capable of stacking and holding the POA to shut-down the interior run. His motor is relentless and he’ll often pursue away from the LOS to work down the line. Against Miami he showed he’s able to penetrate with quickness and explode into the backfield to create pressure.
Jackson looks like a beast on the field and Jim Nagy from the Senior Bowl noted after week two, “A&M coaches say nobody messes with Jackson & NFL scouts will love how he’s wired.” This is what the Seahawks are lacking a bit up front currently. Someone other than Jarran Reed with more beef who can still get around a football field and play with a mean streak. He’s someone to keep an eye on.
I’ve also been impressed with Texas’ T’Vondre Sweat. Supposedly he was a player not really making the most of his talent at Texas but now the light’s switched on and you see what he’s capable of. He’s huge (listed at 362lbs by the team) and he carries some sloppy weight which could/should come down. You also see inconsistent effort at times. However, so far he’s been unusually active for a man his size — creating pressure, disrupting, bursting into the backfield and being a force as much against the pass as he is against the run. His athletic talent could be harnessed even more by slimming down. He’s an impact player at the moment for the Longhorns.
His team-mate Byron Murphy has also stood out. I thought he was sensational against Alabama. He is smaller than Sweat (6-1, 308lbs) but he was often anchoring the line. Murphy consistently shoved blockers backwards and made splash plays to impact the quarterback. Alabama resorted to sticking two blockers on him and he was just so scrappy and combative throughout the game. Ranked at #18 on Bruce Feldman’s freaks list — Murphy has the major physical upside to back-up the tape. He showed that off by scoring a touchdown pass in the redzone against Wyoming on Saturday.
I have McKinley, Murphy and Ohio State’s Michael Hall Jr. currently down for very solid day-two grades. I think they’ve been the most active and intriguing of the players I’ve watched so far. I’ve been left wanting a bit more from Kris Jenkins at Michigan. He is getting early first round love but I haven’t seen anything to back that up so far.
Jer’Zhan Newton is active and look athletic for his size yet it’s hard to get a great read on him because Illinois use him a lot at defensive end. His flashes are good but I’d like to see him used in a more orthodox role. Mekhi Wingo at LSU plays with good effort, he’ll take any opportunity given to him to shoot a gap and his lack of size works well for leverage. I’m not sure he’s a high-upside type worthy of an early draft grade though. Team mate Maason Smith made his long awaited return to LSU at the weekend and he tipped a pass that was picked off and showed a useful swim move. There were also quite a few mediocre snaps too as he feels his way back into things. It’s a difficult game to judge because Mississippi State looked like a bunch of High Schoolers playing LSU — small and overmatched. The scoreline was no fluke.
This is certainly a deeper defensive tackle group than previous years. I’m not sure it’s necessarily loaded with first round talent, though. It might be a position where you can get good options in the round 2-4 range, without necessarily being a target area in round one. It’s still early, though.
Quarterback notes
Will Howard vs Missouri
This was my first proper look at Howard and I have to say, I was very impressed. He’s not a flawless player destined for the top-five but there’s plenty to work with here. I need to watch more but as a first viewing, this was a ‘sit up in my chair’ moment and I only typically have a handful of those every year.
The thing that stood out most to me is the way he was able to surgically thread passes into tight coverage over the middle. Missouri has a good defense and they cover well at the second level. He faced a lot of coverage situations that felt NFL-esque and the way he sneaked passes into very small areas with accuracy and velocity was extremely impressive — certainly enough to outweigh the bad moments in this game.
Howard also gets the ball out quickly, he can side-step and shift away from pressure to extend plays in the pocket while retaining a strong base and keeping his eyes downfield, he generally hits receivers in stride with good ball placement and he sees the field. He’s also a good athlete and a strong runner (he scored the opening touchdown on a read option, bouncing it to the outside, and had another TD run called back on a penalty).
It wasn’t all good of course. He threw an ugly interception on 3rd and 10 in the first quarter, throwing off his back-foot with pressure in his face. It’s a bad, avoidable mistake. He needs to learn in that situation you can’t throw essentially blind when someone is in your grill — or you need to realise the blitz pre-snap and check-down.
He almost had a second pick on an attempted bubble-screen that was never on. One of his touchdown passes also came on a lucky tip into the air.
Nevertheless, Howard is a toolsy quarterback who is well sized and already completing what I’d call NFL level throws. It’s quite easy to imagine him starting at the next level. The 2024 quarterback class was already deep and here’s another name to throw into the mix. I am desperate to see more because this was a very intriguing first impression.
Incidentally, the Kansas State left guard Cooper Beebe is destined to be a very solid pro at the next level and should be a top-50 lock. There’s also a tight end called Ben Sinnott who just blocks his head off and has a ton of intensity and grit to his game.
Spencer Rattler vs Georgia
Rattler’s arm strength has always been high-end but he’s now playing in a controlled fashion to make the most of it. On a 2nd and 5 early in the game he ripped off an absolute rocket for 25 yards to the left sideline. The receiver was well covered but the ball is perfectly placed to allow him to go and make a play. It ignited a scoring drive on the opening series.
Rattler consistently took what he was offered by Georgia, showing a newfound patience and competence. Yet he also made those 25-yard outs look easy. He dealt with pressure well, stay composed and was able to stand tall in the pocket and deliver.
He had a huge play with 2:37 left in the first half. He’s sliding to his left so balance isn’t ideal. Without a proper reset he launches the ball 45-yards downfield into a perfect spot for the receiver to make a 1v1 catch. he showed special physical tools plus anticipation. It led to another touchdown.
Rattler was effective as a scrambler when needed and he’s no slouch as a runner. He did a very good all-round job against a loaded opponent.
There was a lot more pressure in the second half and it knocked South Carolina out of rhythm. His offensive line was again problematic and there’s a clear talent difference compared to Georgia (unsurprisingly).
The conditions also deteriorated leading to a number of drops and a generally ugly half. He still moved around in the pocket well to extend plays, converting a 3rd and 15 at one point with a subtle step-up and drive.
In the final four minutes he threw two interceptions but it’s not too concerning to me. One was a hail-mary attempt downfield on 3rd and 20 with 4:02 remaining, trailing by 10. The second came with 19 seconds remaining, again trailing by 10, where the corner undercuts a route to the sideline.
Overall I think Rattler showed enough against the top ranked college opponent to retain momentum and belief that his talent and maturity are now at a level to make him a fascinating pro-prospect.
Drake Maye vs Minnesota
Maye’s first touchdown showed he can manipulate the pocket, exit to create time and throw on the run. However, the pass was under-thrown and he got lucky that the receiver tracked the ball brilliantly to make a great play for the score.
He dodges pressure well initially but there’s evidence his eyes will drop when he does buy time. He will sack himself as a consequence.
Maye threw an absolute bullet to the left sideline on 1st and 15 on one play, squeezing the pass in between a triangle of defenders. He showed excellent accuracy, placement and timing.
On the negative side though, he had two ugly interceptions before half-time. One when he was throwing on the run, he doesn’t see a linebacker and throws it right to him. The second, he is getting sacked and for some reason in his desperation to get the ball out he just throws it right to a defender. There is no UNC receiver anywhere near the ball. It’s a horrible, massively avoidable error and it’s not obvious what he was thinking.
He rebounded with a 45-yard dart down the middle of the field, then a pump-fake uncovered a tight end on a wheel route for a touchdown.
In the third quarter he showed he can excel with play-action, putting his foot in the ground and driving the ball deep down the middle. He couldn’t finish that drive as three inaccurate throws failed to find the mark which was unfortunate.
Maye is clearly talented with good size, a decent arm, the ability to make throws around the field, the mobility to escape and he can improvise. He’s also a bit error prone though, does drop his eyes when he moves around and he has inaccurate patches. He’s a good player but the ‘top-five-lock’ talk has always been premature and, for me, a bit off.
There’s a lot to like but I think Duke’s Riley Leonard is a similar player competing at a more consistent level currently. There’s still a lot of football to be played though.
I liked Leonard’s performance again at the weekend and I actually thought Michael Penix Jr’s performance wasn’t as good as the stats suggest. Michigan State were an abomination, offering easy throws galore. They also offered zero pass-rush, allowing Penix Jr the time to pick his shots downfield. Even then, he was aided by some spectacular catches by his receivers on not-ideally thrown deep passes. One of his touchdowns should’ve been intercepted but was somehow tipped up into the air with Ja’Lynn Polk collecting it and running it in.
The environment is perfectly set up for Penix Jr to succeed — he’s never sacked, he has NFL receivers dominating every corner they face and the offensive scheme is blisteringly effective. Very little of this is translatable. Plus there’s an injury history. However, he has such a fantastic arm. It’s a heaven-sent arm. The league will be intrigued by the upside of his throwing potential, 100%.
A final note from the weekend — Quinn Ewers reverted back to the Rice game and struggled against Wyoming for large stretches. It’s bizarre how he plays so well against Alabama and can’t do it against lesser teams.
As I’ve said a few times now — increasingly I’m starting to buy-into this QB class. It might not be loaded with obvious top-five types but this is a very good year to invest in a quarterback — for the future or the here-and-now. The Seahawks have four picks in the first three rounds next year and based on how this is shaping up — one of those picks should go on a quarterback investment. It’s overdue and it’s time.
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The Witherspoon/Carter discussion has reached the point where Brock asked Pete about it this morning.
Take a breath with this stuff, would you please people?
Salk is such a waste of space on that show. Brock is really solid, but Salk just wants to generate headlines.
I just caught up on the first hour of their show this morning. Salk seems to be trying to emulate the fans.
After week one when everyone was down on the Seahawks, he entertained Rob’s 5 Points about how PC has failed this team. Many of the fans are really down on the team.
After week two, he says the Seahawks are in good shape. That 90% of the fans are happy with the team.
This team is not close to being a contender and does not have a path forward to that goal with this roster. To me this is all that matters.
If you want to celebrate another 9 wins and a.wild card game, good for you, I want to see how this team can surpass San Francisco as the best team in the West.
Isn’t the point of a radio host to ask the questions the fans are asking? There are many fans who didn’t do the character deep-dive and now they want to know why The monster in a position of painfully obvious need wasn’t selected.
Also, Rob, it seems like you have a real need to control what fans think. That’s my only real criticism of an otherwise brilliant blog. But you’d save yourself a ton of exasperation if you let go of that. Just make your case, and some people will hear it, and some won’t, and oh well.
Me pleading with fans for context on this subject, explaining why in the process, is now an attempt at control?
People don’t half say some silly things on the internet
Not at all, and this is more a cumulative effect over many articles and podcasts not so much this article in particular, when you use phrases like, “can we please not have this discussion again?” creates, in my mind at least, the sense of a need to control. But first, couple things we need to get straight: 1) this is my impression only. I don’t speak for anyone else, and I might just be wrong. 2) me feeding this back to you is intended as respect for you and your blog. I’m offering up this suggestion for you to evaluate whether it has the ability to make the blog better. If you think I’m off base, disregard it and no worries. If you think there is something there for you to take an introspective look and see if it adds value, great. 3) I understand that’s not how criticism on the internet usually works, so sorry I didn’t lead with that. 4) love the blog and I appreciate all your hard work. It especially makes Feb-May tolerable, although it does create more opportunity for disappointment when they don’t get the guy I wanted.
Shouldn’t have ended that comment on a down note, I was just fully on the AR15 bandwagon and I’m super bummed we didn’t get him.
It’s not ‘control’ to phrase requests or build arguments around pleas. That’s such an overreaction.
People can do or think what they want.
Framing it this way feels like an attempted smear. Besides, I have no means of ‘controlling’ anything with a free blog with a decent but limited audience
If it came across as a smear, that’s unfortunate as that is most assuredly not my intent. I’m not sure if there is anything I can say that would convince you of that, so I’m just gonna stop
This is a fantastic article Rob, thank you for the hard work.
I like Riley Leonard, probably a second round QB
If he keeps performing like he is, I doubt he’ll last to R2
But as I keep saying, it’s early
Thanks Rob, I am way over Jalen Carter as a Seahawk and can’t believe that people actually think that he could fit on this team.
I will believe that the Seahawks will spend any Draft Pick on a QB in 2024 when I see it. It could be Pete’s last year (if you think the Seahawks are for sell in 2024) and he ain’t going to waste a pick on a QB that can’t help him win in 2024. He is delusional that this team is close.
He thinks that If Jamal Adams comes back then you will see how good this defense can be. Even though this defense has been bad since 2017 with multiple players and coaches.
If the young Running Backs can develop then we could have a dominant Rush Offense and control the Time of Possession.
I think you’re overthinking this. The franchise doesn’t have to slam shut any concept of forward planning because the Head Coach is nearing the end of his tenure. The GM is contracted beyond Carroll. The draft is about talent and they’re hardly going to pass on the best player available if it’s a QB purely for these reasons
I really hope that you are correct.
It will forever piss me off that the Seahawks were willing to be aggressive for Jamal Adams but weren’t prepared to move up six spots in the draft in 2019 for Brian Burns or Dexter Lawrence when both were obviously really good, fit the profile, and DL was 100% Seattle’s biggest need area after trading Frank Clark.
Plus, they had two first rounders that year.
Where would they be, for example, if they’d just gone and got Burns instead of trading down and ending up with Collier and Blair
Then a year later in panic mode — Adams for two firsts
Look at Burns out there tonight. He’s what they’ve needed for years
They’ve always done that. Refused to trade up in the first, and then watched their picks be meh at best. We had 8 years of it.
But they’d have to pay him, and they hate doing that. They are always a year or two behind the market, no matter the position. They always think they can get a great player on the cheap, then get a mediocre one for nearly as much cash/picks/what have you…
Only reason they paid Adams is to prop up their mistakes. It’s Hubris writ large…
I wish they’d traded up in the first or second every year from 2013 to 2022. They surely wouldn’t have missed most of their later picks…
“I wish they’d traded up in the first or second every year from 2013 to 2022.”
Yeah, why not just do that every year? LOL!
Hey Rob,
Is Sanders someone who worth a 1st overall pick. Just impressive whenever I see him. His dad is one of the greatest defensive players ever and his mentor is the GOAT not bad to learn off.
He is showing the kind of talent and potential to be in that conversation, yes
I knew it would but man the hype train has fully left the station on Sanders. Let’s see how he does this week on the road when he’s down 20 points and starts pressing. Colorado hasn’t played anyone. WSU looked far better than Colorado playing CSU.
“The hype train has fully left the station on Sanders.” –Jordan
The reason he is being hyped so much is because his visual processing and mechanical accuracy appear to be bigtime legit, suggesting long-term repeatability. Moreover, his emotion management and onfield demeanor indicate astounding mental calmness and focus, like he’s been doing this for years—yet he’s a firebrand when he needs to be, leaving no doubt as to who’s in charge. He’s shown the ability to ride the peaks and valleys of a three-plus-hour game without losing himself or running out of steam. Dude is tough as nails, too, able to endure big shots while maintaining composure. NFL Hall of Fame DNA can’t be hurting too much, and neither can his lifelong privileged access to other greats of the game. Upstairs, this guy is a pro already, and has been for some time. He’s impressive, and warrants the pub. I can’t think of a single reason why he won’t just get better and better with more experience.
–
“Let’s see how he does this week on the road when he’s down 20 points.” –Jordan
… So, why are you so sure Sanders is going to be down 20 points at Oregon? Because that’s where public money currently is? You should know that (against legitimate competition) Oregon’s defense continues to be woefully Seahawky. It’s an opposing quarterback’s dream, really. And who better to slice it to ribbons than one with the abovementioned attributes?
Spot on with Sanders. I guess some people just aren’t going to like him no matter what….
Feels like a very thoughtful critique.
I would have posted Oregon’s schedule and then just wrote: “samesies”
Portland state, Texas tech, hawaii….not exactly a who’s who of power.
There’s always one
Watching MNF, we should be 2-1 this time next week
A building block for me is “should.” Seahawks in Draft kings over panthers by 4.5.
A win is a win but against the panthers by 10 and they are never in striking distance is something I need to see. Just taking care of business.
Well… now you’ve done it. 😵
I can see another win next week—and no shortage of conversation about Bryce Young’s first career 400-yard passing performance …
So glad you decided to look at Howard. I’m a K-State fan and I think he’s exactly the kind of QB you’re tipping for the Seahawks. Not quite good enough to be in the first round discussion, but enough tools to make for a 2nd or early 3rd round pick with intriguing upside. He got injured in last weekend’s game and had a rough go of it, but his tape from last year is what he should be judged on.
Tonight I watched K-State’s other two games and I think Howard might be better than a mere cursory R2/3 grade. There are some flaws but I’m hooked on his tape. There is a LOT to like.
From your mouth to God’s ear. When you get the chance to watch the Big-12 championship game from last year you’re going to be blown away. And I know Jim Nagy likes him quite a bit too.
My guess is if we go QB, it will be in the 2nd to 3rd range.
had this in the other thread but after this post was made
The rush defense has statistically been very good to start the year. As much as the eye test might not support this, Bobby has the most run stops in the league to start the year with the average depth of tackle being 2.1
Im confident in the pass defense getting better. The pass rush is the missing link but you have young players at that position, so you can make the argument that over the course of the season you could see growth there. Witherspoon and Woolen together on the outside has a ton of promise too.
Good showing for Wagner in run defense.
Not sure the pass defense is going to get better. The lack of pass rush coupled with absolutely atrocious safety play is not a great combo.
I remember watching Penix this weekend thinking this tape is almost worthless. He has all day to throw and his receivers get up and grab everything. There is no display of reading the defense, extending plays or performance under pressure. Everything is so easy. I love it as a UW fan, but in scouting QBs, I learned nothing.
A very fair and accurate review of the situation
So, where do you think Awuze gets drafted? Spitt-balling of course. It’s way to early to say.
He does have it easy cause of the system. He was supposedly pressured 10 times and hit 3 times so there was some pressure. Washington caught MSU in a perfect time.
If only we had taken Ikem Ekwonu instead of Charles Cross.
Oh, wait, Bryce Young is getting killed!
Wasn’t crazy about either in the top-10
I seem to remember you saying that Ekwonu was a guard, not a tackle,
And BTW, did Brandon Perna take a shot at you? Go to the 9:56 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7he_z_yVU
Well clearly he is very wrong taking shots at a cinematic masterpiece
He deserves to be a Broncos fan 🙂
I think he is secretly reading this blog.
What a time to be alive.
Wonder if it’s strange to have family massive engagement in your videos because your team sucks, yet the reason your engagement is so good is that your team sucks?
It’s like a modern O. Henry story.
I scrolled back about a 18 months on his video timeliness and it’s all a good showing…40-60k views on average. But now? That video count based on a few friends that are prolific youtubers….that’s getting him into the high five figures of revenue.
The worst thing for him would be Broncos to become average.
Not family phone….but….finally have massive engagement.
Apropos of absolutely nothing, I am moved to revisit a couple of comments I posted last week. I said Forsythe didn’t belong in the NFL. Because that’s how bad he looked in preseason. Well, thank goodness my opinion means zilch, because both him and Jake Curhan did well on Sunday.
I was wrong.
Forsythe looked really good. The gameplan helped them both out, but both tackles were just fine.
Way to go, fellas, and keep it up. Keep proving me wrong with your play…
Props to you on the mea culpa
But I think he surprised us all
It’s always tolerable to eat the crow when it’s because the opposite of what you said is a positive for the Hawks. I’ll happily eat every negative thing I’ve ever said about Adams if he is suddenly playing at an All-Pro level causing a marked improvement in the defense.
Not being willing to admit being wrong is a pretty negative character trait. Good for you man.
While it’s nice to be reflective maybe Shane Waldron should be apologizing for leaving two back ups out there in week one with minimal TE help.
They both played better. No doubt. And that is a nice sign. Just looking back on the highlights you can pretty clearly see an extra man on plays. Uncle Will basically doubled his snap count.
So yeah. You and I were wrong because I thought it would be a disaster. But the coaching also put their thinking caps on.
Nick Chubb is exactly what we needed in 2018
Sigh
Ah F**k
And they didn’t cut to commercial on UK TV so we got a whole bunch of off-air close-up replay shots of the injury, which is a bad one
Chubb is hurt?! I love that guy. Say it ain’t so…
Badly
Very badly
Oh no!! I’ve watched some Browns games and highlights just to see him. Poor guy, he’s been everything you could ask for in a back…and I’ve not heard a bad word about him as a person.
Really sad to hear that.
I’m not going to watch a replay. I saw Theisman live as a kid, and the Lions lineman who was paralyzed…and Navorro Bowman. All live. And I wish I hadn’t. Kinda takes some of the joy out of the game.
Dear sweet Jesus that was ugly. I can’t even…
The fucking gods are capricious
I’m less concerned about who the Cardinals pick with the first overall pick in 2024…
It’s the second overall pick (that they own from Houston) that concerns me most.
It would seem that there’s no way they don’t take Harrison, Jr with one of those picks. Stands to reason they’d also take Caleb but with Kyler’s situation, who knows? Best situation would be another team earning the 1st overall and making AZ miss on a chance at Caleb.
They could also trade it for a kings ransom, like the Bears did.
With the Saquon injury and fallout between Cam Akers and the Rams, one wonders if we’ll see him starting in the Giants back field on that Monday night game.
Trevor Penning looks decent today, at least on running plays.
Rob,
Your comments on Penix remind me of something Holmgren said about Jeff George once. He said George had such an amazing arm he would occasionally just watch him and temporarily forget about the rest of practice. But George never quite clicked.
Anyway I trust your scouting. I know it’s tough to navigate the mutual fanbases between the Huskies and Seahawks. If Penix is a 6th rounder come the draft, that’s fine by me. He does have the best receiving group Washington has ever had. I can’t remember a better one. Browning and Locker certainly didn’t have these receivers.
Well, he’s not going to be a sixth rounder
I’m just trying to review the whole situation with him and provide context. Sensational arm and a lot of positives but also some scheme and personnel advantages which provide layers of difficulty when evaluating his pro potential.
Definitely.
I have to immediately eat a few words. Browning had John Ross and Dante Pettis, but I think the current group is better all round.
Kordell Stewart at Colorado.
Panthers defense must have practiced that sack dance for hours.
Watching these rookie QB’s makes you realise that the league has tied itself in knots over rookie contracts
These guys need to sit and learn. The value shouldn’t be bleeding year one of the contract and hoping it works. It should be letting them sit and learn so you get a QB for 8-12 years (or more)
And it’s why Seattle should be prepping and developing a QB from next year for the long haul and tapping into contract value that way, not eventually feeling like they ‘have’ to start a rookie QB
Preview of the next article?
Not much more to add but I’d rather the Seahawks draft and develop with freedom to be patient than ever feel like they need to press the panic button, draft a QB and force them into the line-up right away
This is the move right here.
The list is very short on QB’s straight out of the gate that you can say are good day one as rookies.
I know teams are looking for that magic rookie money run but at what cost? If that first year is bad or even worse starts to effect the qb’s future play are you gaining anything?
Part of this is why I think more QBs will start being choosy about going pro and their relative landing spots.
ARich is getting murdered. Bryce looks hapless. Stroud put up some garbage time yards.
The field, and unemployment lines are littered with first round QBs who may have succeeded with better environments.
I don’t think he looks great, but look at Jordan Love, or ARodg before him.
Carson Palmer too
In my view, this year was an absolute GIFT to draft a possible QBOTF and let him develope.
Not bitching about the Spoon pick but, it would have set the team up for 5-8 years for sure.
Oh well, we can’t have everything right?.
Interesting take on Howard…I don’t watch much Big 12 but he has intrigued me in concept. Allar is the QB I think will break people’s hearts. Kirk Cousins 2.0. Glad 9ers are set on Purdy.
I’m mildly pissed at Rob brining up the Hawks total reticence to move up in the first in the context of Burns and Lawrence, I always think of it with Mahomes and Allen.
I’m hoping 2024 is not a repeat where they fail to move up and the desired QB goes.
I can’t tell whether to be disappointed with the dropping of the DLine or heartened that the Hawks may get good value double dipping in R2 and r4 at DLine. Adding an oddball lb and additional weapon in the 3rd would help.
I can’t even with any Jalen Carter talk.
Going to have to check out Will Howard now though…
If your looking for possible blue chip players check out Latu from UCLA. I think he was the best pass rusher in college last year and he’s been a stud so far this season. I think he will definitely be in the discussion for top 10.
Injury history needs checking out though
My two cents on the Carter situation: I think NFL fans forget that even though a player is good, situation matters. Jalen needed to go to the Eagles, and for Nolan Smith to be picked there aswell. At philly he has plenty of former teammates, a few of which we heard were the ones to keep him in check at Georgia. A perfect situation for him to become a pro. Would Pete be able to do it? Maybe. But in a room where the d-line is in absolute shambles, would he blossom? Probably not.
We always just see the madden ratings, the numbers from college and just think that a player could do the same thing anywhere. Locker rooms, position groups veterans and mentors matter, the whole situation matters.
Also on the DT chatter: Might be my madden bias, but Micheal Hall Jr is probably going to be my D-line pick for the draft. Sounds like we might find great D-line value outside of round 1 this time so thats atleast good news.
Can’t agree more on the Cater vs Witherspoon talk – even more so when you consider the injury Devon is coming through so we’re a long way from seeing his best and full impact as yet. Still believe he will end up as a Top10 CB opposite a Top10 CB in Riq and provide long-term stability to the DB unit. And you can’t ask for more than that from your 1st Rd pick.
Speaking of which – hey Rob, any early names for LB’s and/or Safeties to watch?
everyone here on the Blog knows I liked Carter ..but that pick is done ..and its so true ..ony a couple landing spots really allow Carter to stay on track. Watching Spoon who i did not see didly about I realize already what we got… he is an absolute gamer and instant top dog …stop comparing
It’s passing on Keeanu Benton that still has me salty and should bother seahawks fans thus far
He went at #49. They picked at 52.. Hard to say they passed on him when he wasn’t there.
Gervon Dexter, Zacch Pickens and Byron Young are the DT’s who went after 53 that you can say they passed on.
Loved Pickens, but was happy to get Charbonnet
… But the Seahawks DID pass on Benton—three times (at #5, #20, and #37). This is what has Rb salty, and what Rb thinks should bother Seahawks fans.
As bad as Seattle’s defense has been, they might pitch a shut-out next week
Bryce Young looks like a dear in headlights
They had no running game to lean on. Young got 34 of their 100 yards on two desperate scrambles.
The RBs were 3.88 YPC and were targeted 10x in the passing game for 38 yards.
((I mention it because the Panthers ran for 223 yards Week 14 last year and won despite only 105 yards passing from Darnold.))
Maybe they just wanted it more last year and we just need to want it more than them this time
223 yds? Boy, whoever they played sure had a crappy run defense.
😀
Seattle has a habit of giving bad QBs career level days.
Why do I have a bad feeling about this…
Matt Schaub is that you?
Colt McCoy is waving his hand somewhere.
The Prime effect
That is crazy. The game at Oregon on Saturday may top that viewership and the game against USC the week after might break the Internet 🙂
If they beat Oregon then I might feel likek the hype is somewhat warranted.
QB Sanders does look legit though. Still think they would do amazingly well to get top 5 in the conference. Cause they wont gett the ‘being overlooked” treatment. Players will be up for it with everyone watching.
They can beat anyone, I have no doubt.
On the whole the Pac 12 is gonna be nuts and what a last go around for the conference (since its already happening…Im actually still in shock that we are here).
If CSU had cut their cheap shots and Personal Fouls in half they would have won vs Colorado comfortably.
I do not expect Oregon’s Defense to get too many stops against Pac-12 teams this year. Vegas thinks the Ducks by 3 scores but I think Sanders keeps it close.
Maybe. But those cheap shots as it were took their best WR and best Corner out on one play.
With Colorado at Autzen, I’m picturing something like when UCLA played there last year, as in: a shortened game. Which would of course favor … Oregon? I guess?
In 2022 UCLA-Oregon, an unusually low number of possessions narrowed the error margin severely, leaving the underdog visitor s**t outta luck after one slipup in turnover differential—despite having executed brilliant offense all game.
UCLA was held to only seven possessions (an incredible number considering the old clock rule was in effect) while Oregon had nine, meaning DTR had to be perfect to win. He nearly was. His offense scored on every single possession with the singular exception of the penultimate, which unfortunately ended in a tough end zone interception (while trailing big, late in the fourth quarter). His team’s underlying quandary in that game was rooted in one simple matter: not enough possessions. The onside kick and the interception maybe could have been overcome in 12 possessions, but not in seven.
I bring it up because it’s probable that we see another low-possession game with Colorado-Oregon, because both offenses should similarly rack up lots of first downs with few incompletions (maybe one ball in four hits the ground). This is a clock-consuming combination. The new clock rule further increases the likelihood of a shortened game between these two, especially if both defenses prove to be as overmatched as they look on paper.
Explosion plays could produce a few quick-strike drives, yes, and I could see a warmup three-and-out or two. But on the whole, the average time of possession per drive should go way up—in which case the number of available possessions would go way down—leaving a gnat’s-ass error margin once again.
Given that fewer possessions available magnifies the significance of everything in a football game—every possession, every play, and especially every turnover—does a short game actually hurt Colorado? Is theirs the narrower margin of error?
when it comes to the subject- literally all i care about is how good Witherspoon ends up being – and to my eyes, for a first game in the NFL, against a good offensive team – he played really well. Passed every eye test for me. And having a potential pair of top-tier CB’s is nothing but exciting.
the tougher almost was/coulda been for me is Richardson…but no upside in holding onto that one of course.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Flb5c3lgbs8pb1.jpg
Yikes but true
New rule:
No trades or FA signings of safeties from the NY teams
I admit that I thought the Seahawks Run Defense would be atrocious and have been surprised at how good it has looked in the first 2 games.
The Pass Defense has been atrocious and the Pass Rush almost non-existent until the end of the Detroit Game.
Excellent article Rob. What do you think about DE Latu of UCLA, 6’5″ 265? He leads the country in sacks with 4 and TFLs with 5, also has a FF and an int., but it’s against 3 cupcake teams they destroyed. He had 10.5 sacks last year and 3 FF.
I just noticed the Cardinals signed our recently cut S Joey Blount to help make up for putting Buddha Baker on IR. I’d rather have Neal, Blount and our 6th rounder Reed as our 3 main rotating safeties instead of Diggs, Adams and Love.
That’s 3 mil. total for those 3 vs. our current 40 mil. for the position this year. And of course we had to sign our aging (Diggs) and consistently injured (Adams) players both to extensions recently, so they’re locked in at 20+ mil. each for the next 2 years. Even if we cut them both post June 1st next year, it would be over a 20 mil. dead cap hit for the 2.
Neal is looking like a pro bowler in TB for almost league min., but he’s got Vea & Gaines on the DL, and White, David and Barrett at LB. Blount seemed like a decent backup since last year until he got injured in the preseason and was cut.
Here are a few PFF stats that speak to the success of our passing game vs. running game.
*Smith’s 3.11 seconds of average time to throw on all drop backs was the fourth-most time of all starting quarterbacks in Week 2
*Walker had 43 rushing yards in the game and 42 rushing yards after contact
*Of any NFL linebacker with at least 15 run defense snaps, Barnes was second in average depth of tackle (0.3 yards) behind teammate Alex Anzalone (0.0 yards)
Seahawks promote Artie Burns and his 63.9 PFF grade to the active roster.
The other safeties/nickels through 2
Bryant 37.0
Love 40.7
Diggs 30.1
But yay run defense.
Well this is why we pay nearly 25% of the cap for Safeties.
.
.
.
.
oh wait, I jus looked at those grades. Hmmmm, not so good it seems.
Ah, but maybe it we upped it to 30% it could work.
Of course! You’ve opened my eyes. Stupid me.
11 DB sets.
My early take on the draft. If Pete and John are here, I see us rolling with Geno unless he collapses. Their new thing seems to be developing QB’s (thus keeping Lock) as a way of getting a jump on league patterns. This approach also ties into the “always compete” mantra.
They always think they’re just a couple pieces away and will draft as such. I’d like to see us go interior DL early as many others would. LB and tight end seem inevitable as well.
Way early, but I’m not holding my breath for a high pick QB barring a catastrophic failure this year. Just can’t see Pete restarting at this point.
I think they would have drafted Richardson if he lasted to 5
Not sure how much say John has, but I could certainly see him doing that. My preference is to go QB.
I’m not sure why people keep saying this though Ben
It almost implies they will go out of their way not to draft a QB, even if there’s one they like
I don’t see that at all
If there’s a QB in the next draft Schneider falls for — he’s 100% taking him
And that doesn’t have to be to immediately replace Geno either. Their recent approach is as much indicative of a franchise appreciating time/patience/development at the position is important
I hope you’re right 🙂
My take based off John scouting QB’s in the past and talking about drafting them when the right opportunity presents itself, is that he wants to. It just hasn’t happened outside of Russ.
My reason for pause is whether Pete would allow this as it would take away a high pick on an immediate impact player. I’ve heard it suggested that John got more say in the draft recently, but if so, how much?
My personal hope is that we draft a QB asap.
I’ve been desperate for a QB to be drafted for years, but I’m beginning to feel the same way. At this point it feels (absolutely no logic or proof) that they will stick with Geno and not draft another QB. I hope I am completely wrong. I’ve just lost faith in them drafting and developing after years and years of failing to do so.
Why couch it like this though?
They have no cap space next year, Drew Lock is out of contract and Geno is 34 next year
It makes financial and planning sense to draft a QB to act as a backup and potential heir
People keep inserting here that this is some kind of ‘plan’ to avoid QB’s. It’s far, far, far more likely JS simply hasn’t drafted more because a.) he had a QB for years b.) he’s picky
If there’s a QB he really likes he’ll take him
Book it
I get the logic and it totally makes 100% sense. Like I said, it’s just the feeling I have. I hope that my intuition is way, way off and they get their guy. I’m just to a point of seeing is believing. I’ll still read every article and suck up all the intel on each QB, cause maybe I to love being disappointed.
Just read that Prime was asked about his sons going to the NFL next year and he said, “they ain’t going anywhere.”
Sanders would be certifiably insane if he said:
“Look, I’m going pro next year, and so are my sons, that is the plan!”
He has to go out and recruit, watch the transfer portal, all sorts of stuff.
There was no question about Prime leaving. Of course he’s not going to entertain that question. But, his sons’ future was the focus. I am of the opinion that he will do anything in his power to keep them around so he can make his vision for CU come to fruition. With his influence and the NIL money that will be pouring into those kids, I just don’t see hem declaring for the draft.
If the right position came up he would jump to the pros, no question in my mind, would really be interested to see his O-coordinator working on NFL defenses.
I also think he is savvy enough to not take a job with the Browns or Cardinals.
I know it’s not an “en vogue” premium position but I’d love it if interior LB was higher than usual on the draft priority list this next go around. BOBBY™ won’t last forever and Brooks is a complementary piece, at best.
Rob, any early insights for potential Round 2 or 3 options to take over for Wagner next season?
I’ve not studied LB’s in the first three weeks of the season
Not Rob,
But if you watch NC’s D…Cedric Gray is a star and could sneak into R1 as an off-ball LB. Jason Dumas-Johnson Is looking good with Georgia. Danny Stutsman (ok) and Jaylan Ford (Tex) are two others that have appealed to me.
One name to watch is Bryce Gallagher from Northwestern, real lunchbox guy, I’m waiting to see his testing before settling on him.
I did a mock on PFN and drafted him.
Cedric Gray
In fairness, He is Him.
R2?
Depending on a lot of factors there could be a half dozen really interesting QBs available at the end of the first round.
I am higher on a lot of the other position groups that Rob (at least it sounds that way). It is early going and certain players may opt to not declare.
Top Tier QBs: Caleb, Sanders, Maye(?),
Top Tier Tackles: Fashanu (beast), Alt, Mims, Suamataia
Top Tier WR: Marv, Egbuka, Worthy, Keon Coleman
Edge: Verse, Latu, Trice
CB: Kalen King, Cooper Dejean
Others: Maason Smith, Newton, Bowers, Hall, Cedric Gray
And there are a wealth of players who could challenge for first round grades. J.T. Tuimoloau looked like a star when I saw him live. Not every team is drafting a QB (look at how many are locked in), and there is a wealth of talent at premium positions that will allow QBs to drop a bit (like what happened with a certain Kentucky QB that is now sitting and learning)
Rob has listed several QBs who could be in that late first early second range. Rattler is one to keep an eye on, Ewers has so much talent, KJ Jefferson reminds people of someone, TVD might be the tasters choice, Penix with his special arm and his 100+++ leadership/intangibles.
Assuming the Seahawks are in the bottom 15, and not the top, QB looks to be a rich area to choose from, before turning to interior DLine in round 2.
*If* Waldron is the heir apparent, I’m ok with pairing a QB to go with him and learn while PC rolls it out one more time in 2024 with Geno/Lock.
Not convinced (so far) by some of the names. The best tackle I’ve watched this year is Graham Barton
Cream puff season is coming to an end, so I’m expecting to see a lot more.
Barton is an interesting callout. I was kind of hoping he’d be a 4-5th round steal. But there may be buzz building.
Fashanu Handling Newton easily was an eye opener for me on both players.
My overall point is that 9 QBs aren’t going in the top 32 picks, there will be risers at other positions.
The buzz with Rattler has me feeling that if he is the guy, they may have to give up something to go get him, may not last past the 8-15 range.
Great piece on a future 1st rounder – https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38399403/zachariah-branch-true-freshman-phenom-usc
It’s passing on Keeanu Benton that still has me salty and should bother seahawks fans thus far
Reply
Brodie says:
September 19, 2023 at 7:37 am
He went at #49. They picked at 52.. Hard to say they passed on him when he wasn’t there.
Gervon Dexter, Zacch Pickens and Byron Young are the DT’s who went after 53 that you can say they passed on.
Sigh. We picked at 37 as well. The point was that no one is talking about how well Keeanu is playing and by far a better fit than Jalen Carter.
Are you one of the Benton > Hall people? Cause I really don’t understand or appreciate that argument. Expound?
Hall was my Edge #2 next to Will Anderson. He has played well and made some splash plays this week. In 2025 Mafe and Hall could be feared Edge duo.
It seems obvious to me that the team was keyed in on DLine with the pick it traded to Denver…are you making the case that Benton is significantly better than Dexter/Pickens?
You rated Hall over Will McDonald?
I like Hall but McDonald was a better prospect imo
Not sure it would have mattered. Rather predictably I see Hall getting the rookie 30% of snaps. I liked macdonald quite a bit. Truth be told I didn’t know anything about Hall until Rob started talking him up.
Well the blog talked about him non-stop for months leading up to the draft. Go back and look at any of Rob’s articles during the time and the comment section. Benton was super high on just about every poster’s board, as well as Rob’s.
I’ll bet if you go back through the draft season articles he was mentioned (pined for) in over 100 posts and likely as much as any player.
Maybe they thought he’d be there at 52 and missed out by a few picks. Maybe they had Hall significantly higher on their board.
I do know he was a consensus favorite of most everyone here though, myself included. That being said, we’re 2 games into these guys’ careers. You never know how things will play out.
I need another JC post or comment like I need a root canal, but here I go.
People don’t like being wrong, they like being wrong even less today than they did 20 years ago.
Whatever fan community it is, or workplaces, or wherever, people would rather chew a glass bottle and swallow it than admit it is not edible. The stronger the position, the more they don’t want to let it go.
Here’s my grace for JC truthers: *if* Will Anderson was available, and the Seahawks passed on him, I would have been apoplectic, Devon Witherspoon would have to have come out looking like peak Deion Sanders mixed with Richard Sherman for me to even slightly back off my opinion that he was the wrong pick. All the while, Will Anderson is hitting the league like he is the real defensive rookie of the year?
My user name would be changed to FirePCHawk, I’d probably just sign off on the season while decrying Spoon as a bum, and drawing hearts around WA.
Ignorance is possible, somehow they may not have heard about all the negative. It is also possible they didn’t care about his negatives, plenty of people argued (rightly or wrongly) that a good team would manage it.
The larger point I wish would be embraced is that adding JC and dropping Spoon wouldn’t be a net improvement for the team and wouldn’t instantly *fix* the defense.
Whether he wins the DROY or does not it won’t matter. When you tell people starting the day after the 2022 draft that a player not in the draft is the best player and then during the draft cycle basically every single day the local media talks about him, minds are going to calcify.
Add that to the wonky start to Spoon’s time here which did not help anything and it’s going to be like this forever.
Just look at week one. Best rookie week ine start in five years!!! Pff’s second highest graded dlinemen.
Week two comes around….crickets. yep he played a game. And on and on for 17 games. Where every good to great game the eagles, east coast hype train will fire up the engines. And every “just a game,” we’ll skirt right around it until something great happens again.
Overall Seattle’s vaunted secondary sucks. I think spoon if he doesn’t get hurt again will be a big improvement and ultimately end up being the right choice. For the team at this time.
I agree, but if they passed on Anderson…._
Try and ignore the fake so good Darrell Taylor nearly decapitated Goff.
Watch #10. That’s how you set an edge right there. Two guys on him and they can’t move him. The runner has to adjust his route.
Watch #6. A nice ‘last line of defense’ stick.
But why is #6 making the tackle on a run play?
Watch #56 and #54. Kids, that’s what you DON’T want to do in the run game.
https://x.com/Nate_Tice/status/1704263692429512986?s=20
Thanks for the link and the notes, cha.
I don’t understand what 54 and 56 are doing. Is 56 reading pass, or is he just over pursuing the RB? For Bobby, he must recognize it’s a run since the right guard is clearly run blocking, right? So why is Bobby going to his right?
Taylor was so ecstatic he got that sack lol
Brooks clearly over pursues, which is totally unnecessary given Nwosu’s excellent positioning.
And Wagner, did he get faked too? Or is this a prime example of the kind of hesitation borne of complacency that marked his last seasons in Seattle?
Got a good chuckle over the morning coffee thinking about the pac 12 and this swan song of a season.
8 (!!) Teams currently ranked in the top 25. But because you don’t know how to run a business that’s sitting right in front of you the conference is going to pack up their tents.
A real shame
Terrible leadership for years
But why?
Remember the Niner game in 2020 when they had 6 Tight Ends active on game day?
Stephen Sullivan had played defensive end in high school so they lined up him up there instead of activating Snacks Harrison?
FFS
Let’s see how far down we can spiral Rob.
Willson and Parkinson only got 3 snaps on offense.
These three:
https://twitter.com/curtis93969/status/1704521952285892820
I’m joining twitter/x so I can block you from my feed so I don’t see these kinds of posts.
Hey I was aiming for Rob. You’re just collateral damage.
Here is my new metaphor for Jalen Carter.
You need to hire an auditor for the accounts payable department of your company. The candidate comes into the interview reeking of scotch. His hair is all messed up, his tie is loose and crooked, he has a black eye, and there is lipstick on his collar. He can barely stay awake for the interview.
Later, he gets a job with another company and does fantastic! He is never late, always looks sharp, and conducts himself with the highest levels of professionalism. He saves that company a ton of money and profits go through the roof.
Why didn’t you hire Jeffrey Skilling?
Jordan Davis = manager on duty
Fletcher Cox = project lead
Nolan Smith = assistant to the manager
Cheat codes enabled
https://x.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/1704527721387196843?s=20
From this angle you can see Bijan keeps his torso remarkably stable, his lower body swiveling beneath like it’s suspended from above, not connecting him to the ground.
How is that possible?
God how I wish we had all these cameras/angles when Barry Sanders was playing
I believe one of the opposing coaches compared him to LaDainian Tomlinson. I can see that and a little bit of Adrian Peterson.
Darnell Savage at safety with the “Hawk Tackle.”
This is what I’ve been saying, forget JC, why did we pass on Bijan!!!???
Bijan let’s the Char pick be used on DT (Pickens, Young, Dexter)
We’ve all been aiming at Arizona picking 1-2 next year, but could Chicago be in the running?
Yeah, but a rookie head coach gets a pass if they suck. Eberflus probably wants to keep his job.
Buy, hey, nothing can sink you like a disgruntled quarterback.
Long time reader, first time poster!
I’ve been seeing a lot of comments, here and other sites, about Tre Brown having a fantastic day, based mostly on his pick-six of Goff. If you watch the clip of that play closely, Brown looks to be beat on the slant. Goff’s arm is slightly hit by Uchenna Nwosu, enough to redirect the ball behind the receiver. Kudos to Brown for reacting to it, but if Nwosu doesn’t cause the bad pass, that is likely another completion and possibly another explosive gain for Detroit. Did anyone else see what I thought I saw?
Great site Rob, appreciate having a Seahawks site that offers great discussions!